I'm John Riley . The Camino has a path of awakening to fear for love .
So , john , as we begin to wake up as you call it right , we're awakening . At that point the Camino begins to kind of weave into a path of possible transformation . Let's talk a little bit about what that means to you .
Well , you know , we , again , we have to accept that there's something within ourselves that we want to transform , otherwise there's nowhere to go on it . But you know , the pilgrimage to me , built into that , is a sense of transformation .
We're trying to change something within ourselves , we're trying to change an old conceptual model that perhaps doesn't work for us anymore in our lives , either in general or personally , and we want to transform that into something else .
So , again , the Caminos give us that vehicle , that time away out of the familiar in order to bring the transformation process into being . We're walking , finding ourselves walking , partly letting aside , letting go our old identity , but we're also walking with people who , in a sense , we have no identity . For us there's no history .
We're walking with strangers who then become , of course , not only we're leaving behind the strangers , they become family , but we're walking with like-minded people Along the Camino .
If we people are walking as a pilgrimage , everybody is on some journey , some seeking some journey of change , and so , therefore , when we sit in a cafe , when we come together as our little Camino family , the discussion is all about those deep issues . What does transformation mean ? What are we trying to change ?
What is it about our old life that doesn't work anymore . So we suddenly find ourselves in this wonderful sort of mix of ideas and suddenly this support network begins , because often if we're at home when we start talking like this , you know they begin to think , gosh , we need the folk in the white coats or something like that .
But on the Camino that all changes and there's a sort of an openness to this discussion , to the big question , to the deep questions of life and the conundrums that come up for all of us .
Yeah , and you talked about the gift of being heard , but also the responsibility as a program , as being a listener .
Yes , I think that's a really important point . I mean , certainly in my life I have not been a good listener , but along the Caminos I have become a better listener . Listening happens also on two levels . So we need to listen to each other and be able to respond as appropriate .
But listening means you know we're not making a judgment on what somebody is saying , we're listening , we're taking it in so the other person feels heard . But the other crucial listening is we have to start listening to the wise voice that is part of us and we're not familiar with it .
We're not used to either listening to each other and we're certainly not listening to whatever we want to call that wise being , that higher consciousness , the angels , whatever words resonate with you .
But we know when we're actually going deep in and really listening beyond , if you like , ourselves , beyond the sort of persona , beyond the drama , the dream that we've created for our identity , our egoic identity , and we're now listening to a deeper place and that's crucial .
Also on the pilgrimage , we have to start listening to our hearts , however you want to describe it . We know when we're listening at that deep level . The listening happens on two levels , just as the pilgrimage happens on two . Parts is the outer part , the physical part , and there's the inner part . That's what's needed to be there , thank you .