¶ Lindsay's Journey on the Camino
Welcome to the Camino Caffeine Podcast . I'm Lee Brennan , your host . Today's episode is from a conversation I had this past November on a really cold and rainy day with Lindsay Taysha-Nay . We are so grateful that the Pilgrim House allowed us to record this conversation . We sat in the very back room .
If you know this space , you know it's the one with the candles right by the courtyard . It's just a lovely place for pilgrims to relax . I met Lindsay about a year ago , before this conversation , and we just sat down and had a glass of wine and talked about pilgrim things .
But it was during this conversation at the Pilgrim House that I really got to understand a little bit more about Lindsay and his journey . I found myself over and over again during this conversation , nodding in agreement , feeling many of the same things that he felt when he walked that first Camino and the things that draw him back to walk again and again .
In fact , he's actually moved to Spain for a year . That's how much the Camino has helped him . So let's hear directly from Lindsay . I think you're going to enjoy this conversation . You know , when I met you last year , you were just kind of thinking about moving to Spain .
Yes .
And now you're here .
I'm here for 12 months . Yes , this is amazing .
So for folks that aren't familiar with you , you're from Australia .
Yes .
And what town do you live in ?
At the moment I live in a place right up the north called Cairns .
And how far is that ? Just give us an idea , like from Sydney or Melbourne .
About two and a half thousand kilometers north of Sydney . Wow , yeah .
You're really out there . Is it a small town ?
It's about 150,000 , which is it's a regional center . It's probably the last city you come to going north in Australia . Yeah , it's in the tropics , so we've got crocodiles and jellyfish and so we can't swim in the ocean , but it's beautiful , it's beautiful .
So what made you decide to try a year of living in Spain ?
So I guess I won my first Camino in 2018 .
And it was such a profound experience for me that I knew I had to come back , and every time so I've been back three times before now and every time I felt I went home with more confidence in myself , because it's something I had some traumatic experiences happen a few years ago that I've been in recovery from , and each time I walk I find I'm , it feels
like I'm getting my life back , or getting my soul back or something . Yeah , so , and it's a long process .
So I figured , if I'm getting that benefit coming back , and then we're from Australia , we're only allowed to stay for 90 days , so it feels like I just arrived here and I've got to go home and I've got to live and , and you know , the longing to go back to Spain is still there .
So I figured I'd bite the bullet and go through all the process of getting here for some period of time . So six weeks , six weeks you've been living in Spain . Yes .
All right . So how does that feel ?
It's different from a couple of different aspects . One is , when I walk a Camino and I arrive in Santiago , it's not like it's not the same feeling as well . Now I've got to go back home . The feeling is , hmm , I wonder what I can do now . I wonder what Camino I can do next . Maybe I can do this one , maybe I can do that one .
So that's one thing about the Camino . But in the past , when I've come for three months , I was just really happy to get out of Australia , knowing that I'd go back , you know , and see my family .
But arriving here now for the first couple of weeks , it's like I had a homesickness because I knew this was a long term commitment , yes , and the opportunities to see my family maybe limited in the future . I don't know what the future holds , but it took me a little while to adjust .
Being here it's like a part of me was still in Australia , but that's all gone now .
I'm here .
It feels like I've landed in Spain now .
And this is your first or second time walking into Santiago since you moved here .
My second time walking into Santiago . So after the primitivo , I came in town for a couple of days into Santiago , and then I caught the bus to Acaronia and walked back in the Inglis , which I really loved .
Oh , wow , okay , so you walked the primitivo and the Inglis in the past two weeks , basically .
Yes , we've had some weather .
Have we ? I don't know , did you get some rain ?
or wind .
What happened ?
I think the first day on the primitivo out of eight , so it rained . I got into OV8 about 10.30 at night and it started raining that morning , but it wasn't the next morning when I left , so it wasn't particularly heavy . But the outlook looked , you know . You looked on the weather forecast and it was going to rain , rain , rain , rain .
I didn't really know what Spanish rain was like . Where I'm from in the tropics , you get like a downpour for half an hour and then you know it's so hot it all dries up and you're right for the rest of the day You're welcome to rain . But it's a different thing what I found on the primitivo .
So 14 days it rained every day and some days it rained all day . I think it was two days when I saw a patch of blue sky and I know from the reports of other people that that was the similar experience . It didn't matter what came in or what you were on .
This is the experience you're having and it was really important for me to go through that because I'd always been timid of walking in the rain .
Yeah , because I had some bad experiences when I was in the military years ago with my feet basically getting fishes from being wet the whole time , and I didn't want that to happen , but there were a few days when the rain was really uncomfortable it was cold and wet , my feet were wet , I wasn't thinking straight , and what I found on the Camino is that I
have to do a lot of self-talk .
You too , huh .
It's not as bad as you think . And what I said ? Look what I was saying to myself in the worst days when it was cold and some days I couldn't move my fingers because it was so cold . So I just sort of had the grip on the poles and that was as good as I could get and there was no way I could unbolt them .
But it was just cold and I knew that within a few hours I'd be in an albergue , I will have had a hot shower , I've got dry clothes in my pack and everything would be fine and that's the way it was . So , no matter how uncomfortable it got during the day , I always knew that there was a place to come to .
And I suppose for me the fact that there's all that infrastructure there means that people have been doing this for hundreds of years , because that sort of infrastructure and the ethos , the mentality that goes with it , means that support has been provided for a long period of time .
So , as uncomfortable as it was , it was comforting to know that I was being held by the Camino . I guess there's no other way to put it .
Kind of gives you some faith maybe .
Yeah , certainly does . Yeah yeah , yeah , a lot of faith , but it's I mean , faith is a multi-level word . We're sitting in this beautiful room here and we're seeing faith in God and all that sort of stuff .
But there's something more than that faith to me , because there was one time it was getting so risky the cold and the wet was getting so risky and it was unrelenting that if I had have continued I think I would have been a rescue risk and that would have put , because there was a river crossing that was coming up that had broken its banks , and so had I
continued . I didn't want to put the local community at risk for my bravado to be , you know , to go through that . So I ended up knocking on the door of a house in this village , didn't know the language but just gestured can you call me a taxi ? And the woman was just wonderful . She invited us . I was walking with another pilgrim .
She invited us into the house . She had a warm fire , she cut up some bread and some churros , she gave us a cafe con leche and while her daughter called us a taxi and 15 minutes later we were in the taxi and pilgrims had horror stories from going through that river and whatever .
So I'm glad we caught the taxi about 10 kilometers to get to the town and , once again , hot shower , warm clothes , and I could put all that behind us . So so it's the people that are also supporting .
You know , it's not necessarily the hospitality industry , it's just people that live on the Camino , are very welcoming and and I get a lot of heart from that- I'm glad you brought this story up , lindsay , because one of the things when you and I were talking yesterday , you know I really wanted to talk about walking in this weather and you know we're almost mid
November right now and you know I often think , when it comes to the colder months , using good judgment is more important than everything .
Yes , yes , and I can't stress enough . When I got into Santiago the first time after the , I got rid of most of the clothes that I had because they weren't supporting my . I had to get new shoes , I had to get a new jacket , I had to get new socks . The reason for the new socks I couldn't walk into my room while they were drying out .
That's another story .
But you bring up a good point . I think equipment and proper judgment right , because you know we all worry about what shoes , what socks , what we put in our backpack .
but when you're coming in the winter months and there's a risk of nonstop ring , we're talking to wrench or a hour upon hour , right , potentially snow , depending where you are , altitude , wise equipment and , like you said , crossing a river that can pose a lot of danger , not only for yourself , maybe whoever else you're walking with , as well as anyone that might
have to come and rescue you , right ?
Yeah , and I had to think about that a lot , and so it is a matter of it is a matter of taking personal responsibility . The thing that all my communos have taught me is that I need to take personal responsibility for my own life . I can't blame someone else because I'm wet . I can't blame someone else because I missed a bus .
I have to take personal responsibility and I have to deal with the consequences of that . I felt that day when we made the decision to take the taxi , I was taking that responsibility and it wasn't up to the Camino , it wasn't even up to this woman who I knocked on the door . If she had a reject , there's another door to knock on .
I think there was about three in the town , so I had to hedge them a bit . Well , I did try on one , but nobody answered . But yeah , it does come down to that personal responsibility for me , and that's what I learn every time I do the Camino .
It's a beautiful lesson . We talk often about the Camino providing and you have a beautiful story there . You just knock on the door and this one lets you in Not only does it just cause you a taxi , but lets these wet pilgrims come in , and they're where you .
Well , there was two of us , two of you .
And you're total strangers to her .
And we're almost strangers to each other , so my companion didn't speak much English . She spoke no Spanish . I knew about three words that were useful in Spanish , thankfully , the word taxi is the same , and that's about as far as it went .
And were you soaking wet at this point as well ? So you're walking into her house .
Yeah , soaking wet into her kitchen . She insisted Her house had a little foyer and we can't come in , we're dropping in . She just dragged us in and cut up things , made us a cafe con leche , which we where . We left in the morning .
There was no cafe open and so we started walking in the wet so we hadn't even had our morning coffee at that stage , which for me is not Don't talk to me until after that first cafe con leche , right .
So you get your first one there with her . She welcomes
¶ Kindness and Trust on the Camino
you in . I mean , that's quite a story . I mean the people that live along the Camino route , like you said , not just the Albergue owners , not the rest , not just the restaurant people , but just the people that live along . It have such big hearts , typically for a week . We're so blessed .
Yeah , absolutely , and I think you know I have . I have just this one example . But taking that as an example , anyone who does live on the Camino , I think , realises their responsibility to the pilgrims . They may not have any commercial responsibility or profit from them , but they're on this ancient pathway and that comes with the territory of buying a house .
You know , maybe maybe I'm living in a fantasy world , but my experience so far , my experience of one so far , but it's not only that , I mean other , when I've got lost on other pilgrimages , you've got the locals coming out of the house . No , no , camino , camino , camino , all right back up there , you know .
So it's like they're taking that responsibility to , you know to , because they could just let us go . It's nothing , nothing to do with them , but there's that hard every time , and even when I've been in towns where all I've wanted to do is find a cafe in it , slightly off track , but everyone's no , no no , no , no , no no .
You're like no , I know , I know . And then I feel guilty for it . Or I just said I walked to Camino . I'll go to the next cafe .
That's really great , you know , I think it's one of the things . So for me as a pilgrim , it gives me confidence back in the spirit of human , human heart and kindness that really almost everyone deep down you know we're all kind . It's just sometimes that gets covered up by the stress of life .
Yeah , look , my personal view on that is that anyone who comes to do a Camino knows a bit of the backstory of it it's not just a hike and they've heard from either they've seen a movie or they've seen multiple movies or they've spoken to someone , and I think they come prepared to be trusted , you know , and trusted .
If someone's in help , if someone needs help , they're prepared to help them . But also they also trust others . If I get into difficulty , I have to trust that someone will help me .
And I think we all come regardless of where we sit on the spectrum of true pilgrim all this discussion about true pilgrim , my views on that it doesn't matter if we're having our packs forward or what type of Camino we have .
I think I've never met someone who hasn't come prepared to be trusted and prepared to be vulnerable , and I think that's a really important part of the Camino in Spain , particularly because I've done a lot of bush walks in Australia and it's not the same thing . It's not the same thing . People don't bring that vulnerability , they bring their machoism to it .
No , I can do this . My pack's better than your pack , sort of thing . I've never heard that on the Camino Because there's a lot of support from . There's a lot of support in the attitude that other people bring to the Camino .
You're the first person I've ever heard you say this . On that flip side , though , also trusting and believing in other people , you know that we're so much more open-hearted to believing that if we do run into a problem , someone will be there to help us and we also know that we can trust ourselves that will help someone .
But , yeah , I don't think I feel that way if I'm walking one of the trails in the United States , but I definitely feel that every time I love it . It's a beautiful thought . You know , lindsay , you said earlier that one of the things that the Camino has given you is giving you the feeling that you can trust in yourself again , that you can have confidence .
Can you speak to maybe a situation that's happened on the commune for you , whether it's this last primitivo or the Inglas or one before , where you were able to have a moment or experience that helped you regain some confidence ?
Okay . So while I'm thinking of an answer for that , I'll talk about the people I meet
¶ Building Confidence and Overcoming Challenges
Now . I'm quite shy . I always have been quite shy , and after I had my traumatic experiences I lost confidence in myself and didn't think I had any qualities that would be compelling for people to want to be around me . I know it sounds silly , but it's a mental health thing . I'd have to say it's a mental health issue as a response to trauma .
I'm just trying to sum it up the people I've met along the way and the people that are willing to walk with me and the people that are . I'm always surprised when someone wants to walk with me . I'm always surprised because my initial reaction is why would you want to walk with me ?
But the fact that people do want to walk with me and these are people I respect . So if I was to believe that they didn't want to walk with me and therefore they were lying , I'd be calling them a liar . So I have to trust that they see something in me that I don't see in myself , and then I have to believe it .
Because if I start to believe that I have worth , that I'm worthy of these people's company , then I have to start to believe in myself .
So kind of returning your self-worth , yeah , absolutely Some way , is a validation that I'm really okay .
And so that's come from the people I've walked with . So that's one side of the equation . The other side of the equation is and it has to do with the logistics . So here I am in a foreign country . I don't know how the public transport system works , I don't know how to buy a ticket . I don't know anything .
I come here and my cards don't work online because I've got to get some extra validation that goes to my phone number in Australia , which I don't have because I've got a spending SIM card . All these things are challenging and systematically I feel like I have to knock one off . At the time I have to tell myself I can buy a ticket .
I know how to buy a ticket . I can do it in Australia . There must be a way , and so I work it out . Or I ask someone , or that's where the vulnerability is Like . Here we are in Pilgrim House . If I have any doubts about that , I know that I can come here and I can ask the people at the desk and they'll be able to help me .
Or if I'm stuck , I'll have to find another way , and every time I'm successful I get that little bit of extra confidence . You know , I've battled the challenge of the languages . You know , I've used Google Translate or whatever it takes , and I've become an expert at mine . Trust me , I've become an expert at mine .
So every time I have a little achievement like that and to others it might seem so small , right , it might seem so small , but every time I have one of those , my confidence builds and I notice that when I go back to Australia I feel like I'm walking taller and I feel like , even though now I'm in my own country , I have my own language , I know the
system , but I feel more joyful , I suppose because I've had these experiences of beating those little tiny challenges . Sure , walking over the Pyrenees and you know all that stuff , and yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , I've done that , but that's just walking . For me that wasn't a challenge , because I knew I could do that .
But catching a bus in Spain , that was a challenge .
Lindsay , I'm so glad you're saying all this I mean , of all people who relate to that in so many ways , what I'm hearing from you and what I felt was empowerment . You know that I knew that I could do some things that I really didn't know if I could , right .
Yeah , absolutely . That's exactly how I feel . And now , of course , it becomes more important , because now I'm a resident of Spain and that big . I've got about another six weeks before . I can't use my passport anymore and I've got to use my ID card , which I don't have yet , I don't know where it is .
I've got a number and a document , so I'm legal , but after a few weeks I'll have to start to act like a resident . Now that's scaring me .
Hi , I asked Lindsay what kind of things did give him courage .
My first came here , my first Camino I knew it was a spur of the moment being a friend said we're going to Spain , we weren't going to walk together , so I was dumped on the Camino . I'd heard the word albergue . I heard the word albergue and I'd overheard someone saying municipal Right .
So I put those two words together and I was on my own for the first time , coming into Zabiri , and all I saw was the sign municipal albergue and I thought , okay , I know that's something , I'll go there . And then , of course , I'm in a line . I don't know what the line is , I don't know the protocol , I don't know anything .
I've got my pack and I think it was eight euros at the time , so sorted that out , got a little thing , got my bed number and I was there . And the funny thing is I imagined that and this was a room of about , I guess , 80 bunks . Yeah . And I imagined that everyone in that room was experienced .
They'd done it all before they knew what they were doing , and I was the only one that didn't have a clue , didn't have a clue . Looking back now , I think most of them were feeling exactly the same as me and I just wished I had engaged with someone , but I felt so inexperienced and so lost .
I suppose that I was in my own little huddle , just grateful that I actually had a bottom bunk .
To be honest , but what a powerful life lesson .
You know and then see that in that situation I think that I'm the only one that's lost , I'm the only person that doesn't have it together , because on the outside we've learned to present this perfectly packaged person right , and yet we bring that to the commuter right , looking around like everybody else on the side of this albergue thing other than me .
But you start learning that deep down we're all so much more alike and we're all scared at times and we all have issues right .
We're all walking for a reason , and I think that starts to fall apart after Pamplona .
Yes .
Like I think we're able to hold it together after Pamplona . And then it's like , yeah , the realness comes out right .
I'm a mess , you're a mess we're all in .
That slits off top right , yeah , yeah yeah , so you waff the English . Oh , yes , just now , just now .
Oh my gosh , this is so hard .
Once again , this is where the confidence comes in . So I was in Santiago one day . I walked out to the Big Decathlon so , and that was about four and a half Ks out of town , so I walked out there armed with a credit card and just bought everything I believed I'd needed .
When I got to Acaranya which just love Acaranya , my favourite city so far , so there's not a lot of tourists yes , the people will look you in the eye when they're walking past you and they'll break into a smile if you smile at them . Yes , to me , if a city does that , it's alright .
So then I started walking from Acaranya and I was confident in my gear because I knew I'd had enough experience to choose what the Primitivo taught me what I needed , seeing other pilgrims and the gear . They have taught me what was working and what wasn't for them , and so I was able to , with some confidence , buy what I needed , and then that supported me .
When I did the Inglays , I felt very confident . My feet got wet a little bit , but for the most part I was dry and happy and even dancing .
Even dancing . Yes , okay , people , the fact that you were dancing , but I was by myself . The fact that you were dancing because this weather has been trying . We know that we can get just about anything we needed for in one of the bigger cities , right , and you know , say Santiago or León or whatever . But you can get some things in smaller villages .
But yeah , look , I've been to villages like I remember one time I was in I can't remember the name of the place , but I really wanted a mattress , you know , and I just went into this store that I can't even describe the store and I just asked . I think I mined mattress .
I don't even know how you so you mean like a sleeping pad .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , okay and you mined this . I'm very clever and anyway , the guy was delighted and I got it and I was surprised and it was cheaper than I would have got in the city . So you know , there's gems to be found in these little places and it's just a matter . Once again , it's just a matter of having the courage to reach out .
You know Like it's having the courage to make a mistake . Yeah , and to ask questions and mime a lot .
And I'm guessing you were at one of the bizzars , maybe because we do have all these little stores that you kind of walk in and it's like a no or something else .
No , it wasn't a bizarre . It was more a clothes shop , like a sporting clothes shop , and I think he just went out to the back room , like he didn't have these things on display , and went out to the back room and came up with it . He was delighted , I think , because he got to sell one of these things that they'd sit in their parades .
If you've got the courage you can do it , but it takes that courage . It doesn't come all at once . For me it's coming little tiny bits and little tiny bits and little tiny bits .
Yeah , well , it certainly has , because you've gone from walking Parminos to now living in Smaid .
I know right .
That's amazing really when you think about it . Yeah , I try not to think about it too much .
That would be scary in a salt rate right .
Like what have I done ? Yeah , I've never felt that way . I'm not going to miss if I didn't talk about some of the work that you did , especially with Camino for Good . That's really when I first became acquainted with you , so can we talk a little bit about that , because I think you guys did some really powerful stuff during COVID .
So for those that maybe you're listening aren't familiar with Camino for Good , could you just talk a little bit about what you guys did and how many people you supported ?
¶ Virtual Camino App Creation During COVID
So what happened was I got a phone call from one of my Camino family right at the start of COVID .
At the time I was living in a tent in my future , my son's future parents in the Lord's Backyard because it was locked out , and she suggested that , as a COVID project , we get together and create an app , a virtual community Camino app , for people to be able to walk during COVID .
And we decided right then that any money we were able to raise would go to help albergues who we knew would be suffering as a result of the loss of things .
So that became our lockdown project and so we were able to , long and the short of it is , we created an app using our own photos and photos that people had generated , so people could download the app , walk in their own community where they were allowed and they could progress along the Camino , and there were a lot of features to support the Camino experience ,
like you get a stamp and whatever . But the fundraising side of it all up , we ended up raising around a little under 80,000 US dollars Amazing . So we were able to support not solve their problems , but able to help a number of albergues get through the winter , fuel and whatever they needed .
Now , not all those albergues survive , but what we did find we lost half of our water , and this was the touching part for us .
What we did find was that here we were , on the other side of the planet to these albergues that have been supporting pilgrims for the oldest time , and someone was offering to help them and it was like there was a light at the end of the tunnel for them . They were so grateful that and couldn't believe it .
Actually , even though that do it every day of their lives , they couldn't believe that someone would go to the trouble of supporting them , and I think that was the touching thing from my point of view , and I think we had at one stage we had about 3,000 pilgrims a virtual pilgrims walking , and my role in that was encouraging them via Facebook and keep on going
, and I was like , yeah , she could do it and send us your photos and tell us your story , and so that was . It was an absolute delight for me and we're just talking there .
Our leader , bill Austin , unfortunately had a boating accident and after that we had trouble putting it together and someone else is now taking it over and I'm helping him with my knowledge of it , I'm helping him and as I walk , I'm taking photos and that's going to go into future upgrades of the app . So it's still going along and I'm looking forward .
I'm enjoying still being part of it .
To me it just seemed like the just in time app , right .
We were all stuck .
We were missing the Camino for those that had walked before , or for people that had been planning on coming , and all of a sudden the trip was canceled . It was a way to still feel like you were walking in a community and then , like you said , on the flip side , you were walking , but it was also for good right .
Because any money that was raised was going to help the infrastructure of the Camino , which was really suffering . You know , a lot of these religious communities depend upon programs walking through , buying the Catholic home , spending the night as a small outbreak , so it was a win-win all the way around , at a time that just was really needed .
Yeah , and for me look .
I've made so many friends through it . In real life I can touch them , friends like right here , but also virtual friends , and you know that friends-belief thing . I discovered that a friendship can be just as deep online as it is in real life and I wouldn't have believed that up to this .
And when you think about like that , for you , the podcast , for me , people that were writing books and they were talking about their books during Zoom calls and all these meetings , you know , with all the associations , we all had this amazing opportunity to expand our Camino family with people that from all over the world , again that we didn't have to even have a
walk .
I know .
And it's been so much fun since COVID has ended right and now we're getting to actually meet these people in real life . Yes , yes , right .
I know it's amazing .
This Camino has worked on so many levels in so many of our lives .
When we first started , we reached out to John Bro , yes , and we had the question can a virtual Camino have the same impact as a Camino ? And he reassured us yes , it can , you know , you don't have to be on the track , and I think we're living proof of that , absolutely .
I think we're living proof of that and the people we've met and I know many of them have come to the Camino , but I also met a lot of people online doing the virtual Camino who will never get here because of health or money or time Right , but they're still part of our community and in a way , I feel like when I walk I pretty much post every day with
lots of photos and in a way I feel like I'm walking for them and walking for my family as well . You know , they're seeing a more in contact with my family now than I ever was in Australia .
Well , lindsay , thank you for doing this . This was I learned . I learned even more about you today , and I love these little . You've brought up some really unique lessons that I think we don't talk a lot about . No no , no , and I love that we got to talk about it here today , and I just know somebody else who's going to benefit from hearing your story .
How about we catch up with you again in a couple of months ?
because you're going to be walking a lot . I'm going to be walking a lot . My plan is to not do the same one twice , which means I'm going to be doing some really out there ones that people may be here .
Yes , all right . Well , I'm looking forward to hearing about it . And that was Lindsay Taysha-Nay . Lindsay is currently walking again . It's January and he's on the Via de la Plata , and if you'd like to follow his journey a little more closely , check in for the Camino News Update with me and Johnny Walker .
That's every Wednesday night and Lindsay has been giving us a little weekly update so you can catch up with him . And that's it for this week's episode of the Camino Cafe podcast . You can hear the bells in the background . I'm coming to you from Santiago de Compostela and , pilgrims , I can't wait to see you here this summer . Please take care until next week .