Live from the Export Beer Garden Studios. You're listening to the BYC and before we begin, we must apologize to our legions of listeners for being absent at the wheel and one of the most extraordinary fortnights in New Zealand cricket history. It was an unfortunate combination of holidays and overseas travel. But we're here now to reflect upon the almost unbelievable results of both our men and women cricketers. To be honest, I'm still struggling to get my head
around what has occurred. To say, it runs completely against the tide as an understatement, and I'm grateful to have my colleagues here today to make sense of it all. So let's get into it. And Dylan Cleaver, boyo boyo, boyo boy you must feel stupid, um, but let's start off with the women winning the T twenty World Cup. I mean extrawd. Yeah, there is no way in Haydyes, I would have thought they even had a glimmer of
a chance given their run up to that tournament. And then bang may win the tournament.
Yeah, I thought that'd be harp hound in pool play. Yes, I thought they'd fall over to India and Australia, which they did actually fall over to Australia.
And that would be all. She wrote.
I have to say I did know that I was going away to Vietnam during this time, and I did look at the schedule and my confession he had all our listeners minfession as I thought, oh well, I'm not going to miss so imagine my shock as I was refreshing the crick inop furiously from Hochi Min City to see the White Ferns win that tournament.
Just the short score board for the final. They play South.
Africa in the final, which was fortunate, which we'll get to. They scored one hundred and fifty eight for five, with Melly Kerr top scoring with forty three from thirty eight, Halliday brookel thirty eight from twenty eight and the veteran Susie Bads who has become a little bit of a viral star since that world cap thirty two from thirty one. And I have to say South Africa never looked in the races no during that chase. I have caught up with the game bull boye Balls since I've returned New
Zealand bowling execution and plans were superb. South Africa won twenty six for nine. Melly Kerr the star of the show three for twenty four and not far behind Rosemary Mayor with three for twenty five. Just a really professional
performance in both the semi and the final. The semi get a little bit squeaky against Westerndys with Simsey Bates having to bowl the last over, But again I never and the hindsight is perfect vision, right, But I never got the sense that the White fans were anything but ahead of the game, and certainly that was the case for the final, where they were just they were the best team.
Yeah, pull forward. Where the bloody hell did that come from?
Yeah?
Well I was going to say, were you and I of course just around your way because Dylan was a way. We were keen to watch all of these games and do podcasts, but Dylan let us down and we just had to cave in. But you know what a selfless act from the three of us to be away and coaxing what has been just an unbelievable couple of weeks.
Yeah, the White Ferns World.
Cup win is it's just blows my mind. I mean, never in a million years did I think that we would if we won a Cricket World Cup, that the first Cricket World Cup that we'd win would be the White fans.
It's just unreal.
You know, even today they're ranked fourth in the world and you know every World Cup you need it a little bit of luck. But they played really, really bloody well, and you know, to be fair, going into that tournament, I think they'd lost eleven in a row. They'd lost two out of nineteen games in twenty twenty four. To be fair, that was against Australia in England. But you know, those are the teams that we're expecting to come up against.
And have to get over the top of.
And in the end we did have to do that, and that the draw and I'm not playing it down. I'm just saying it just worked out beautifully for us and we weren't alone and thinking that. I was reading a thing on Newsroom which said how before the tournament, Sophie Devine was dialing into a media call. There were
two media on the call, one from Newsroom. I don't know who the other one was, but you know, this was massively, massively unexpected and how fantastic for players like well in particular for Susi Baits and Sophie Devine who've basically dedicated half of their lives to playing for this team, for them to inspire the next generation. And I loved hearing a mereily A cur talking about how when she was nine years old watching them on TV. I think
they lost that twenty ten final. I think it was in the last over, basically off the last ball, and what a great redemption act.
That is sensational, sensational for them.
Yeah, and I think to say, in our defense, if you looked at the form guide Dylan in terms of you know, what was what they what they would performed, they were bringing to the tournament, we were completely within our rights to say wow, you know, and I remember the discussions we were having about the White fans, and you know, none of us really had an answer and it just seemed like they were on a downward spiral. And so therefore it just makes this achievement of theirs all the more significant.
Yeah, it does.
And just a quick point, New Zealand, the White Fans have won a World Cup before, but not a Teach twenty World Cup. So this is the first Teach twenty World Cup we won. But I think maybe we got a false sense of their hopelessness because of that. As Paul mentioned, the fact that all we played over the last twelve eily month seems to be Australia or England, true, who are very very good teams, who are highly resourced.
Granted you should never lose that many games. I mean, teach when he is seen as that kind of game can even up this song exactly because of the format, and they never seem to work when we were playing Australia or England.
But perhaps they learned enough.
And the thing that was really heartening about this tournament, and I really hope becomes the way forward for the White fans, is that it wasn't just Sophie, Susie and Mellie Kerr. In fact, Sophie Devine didn't have a great tournament. I think she might have made one significant contribution with the bat. Obviously your leadership was important, Obviously she's still a talismanic figure for that team, but actual playing performance
wasn't that strong. And players that I've been borderline critical of the management keeping in and just letting them fail and fail and fail without seeming any accountability, have actually started to repay that faith and George Plumoer being head of the class there with a number of really good contributions with the bat. That's got to continue. Brookli a good player, that's.
Continue.
Rosemere, the Spinners, Fan Jonas and eating Carson.
Eating Carson I thought was terrific.
So there is I know, it seems funny to talk about green shoots when you've actually just gone and done the thing that you've achieved it that you really.
Want to do.
But there's actually green shoots there for sustained success.
And I think that's important.
Yeah, because I think that's that was the sort of thing that we were discussing, where were the green shoots in terms of this white Furan side. And you know, on reflection pull forward, maybe in hindsight, you know the fact that they were playing England and Australia probably considered the two best sides. We got it flogging, but maybe we did get some learnings and we were in the in the fire the whole time and that sort of benefited us in the long run.
Built some callousies. Do you think Jason may be maybe a bit tough thing? Yeah, Look, I think with hindsight, as you say, certainly didn't feel like that. At the time, it felt like we were just getting beaten up. But yeah, there's a method to the madness. And yeah, when when you see those players like Georgia Plummer, Eden Carson fran Jonas another one as he gazed the wicket keeper just to share unadulterated joy, well, what they achieved was infectious and amazing and yeah.
And they know how to do it now.
I think, yeah, there's this built and there's a confidence that's going to come with us. I mean, obviously throughout the tournament that has built and built and built. But you know, they talked about, you know, the coaching staff, Susie Bates, just massively defensive about their team, you know, for the whole year, saying now it's going to be okay, stop worrying about it. We've got faith in the players. We're going to keep picking them. We don't care what
anybody else thinks. And they've been absolutely vindicated. And you know, we've talked before about that intent with the bat and it was there, I mean from that first game against India where they basically we're going to go out and try and score one hundred and sixty runs in every game and they went out of that first game and got one hundred and sixty. You know, it's like, yeah, it really felt like something had changed, the confidence had come.
They had a nice warm up victory against South Africa and then it all just came together beautifully in that game against India. Dylan, you mentioned Sophie Devine not having not a blinding tournament with the bat, but lots of amazing field changes, obviously an inspirational leader and all of those sorts of things, and absolutely crucial fifty seven off thirty six, and that went against India two, which really set the tone for the tournament.
And you have to maybe argue, Dylan, cleve of vindication for the coach who you were bagging relentlessly, Vindication for sticking with it, sticking with the team.
Absolute vindication in terms of you benchmark yourselves on your performance and pinnacle events. Yes, in a World Cup as a pinacle event. I guess that leads into this sort of same question as it worth the pain that you've endured. I mean, it wasn't that long ago where it felt like a rain cloud follow the New Zealand team all throughout their fifty over World Cup which they hosted and they were pretty bang average.
It is it worth going through all that for these spikes?
I think in the moment you have to say, yes, it probably is, sure, but I don't. At the same time, just to contradict myself, I don't think we can go into that dip again. No, the lows can't be as low as they were to get to that kind of high.
Well, I think too. You know, just the fact that they've achieved this is going to be a massive, massively significant to the side because they know they can do it, and that's going to build confidence. You know, there is and this is not just to do with the women, it's also to do with the men. From my own point of view, I go T twenty World Cups. Yeah, but it is a massive achievement. How do New Zealand
Cricket capitalize on this, Paul four? Because you know, obviously there's going to be some real enthusiasm out there now for young female players out there seeing the World champions and going, oh, I want a part of that.
Yeah.
Well, they've talked about the method and the approach that they've taken to this tournament. They've been trying to set the team up for a for a long future. I think of the words that they've talked about and given the players they've backed. They've backed the players to the help throughout the tournament over the past twelve months. So
you'd hope that lots of confidence would come with that. Look, I how first of all, I reckon we should pay a few more teams that are a bit shitter than maybe the two best teams.
In the world. I reckon that would be a really good start. I think that.
Everyone that loves cricket should remind our best and brightest and most fantastic young sportswoman that choosing cricket as a career is a pretty bloody decent career these days, you know, it's not like the old days. I think two of our top five earners cricket players, merely Kerr and Sophie Devine, just as an example, So you know, there's a genuine career there to pursue. And you know, I think that's a big thing. I reckon getting the players out and
about just so important. You know, you can't be what you can't see and all that kind of stuff. And look, I was looking at the schedule and it's pretty tough. We've got the Aussies here for three ODI eyes, but it's right before Christmas, so that's going to be a
bit of a tough cell. But there's some t twenties in late March against the Australians that I think should be shaping up as a real pinnacle event for women's cricket in New Zealand, and it would be great to see the country get behind the team and see if they can pull off another miracle against their old nemesis.
I think the point about asking about how Ncincy you are going to leverage this is critical for the future of the women's game here. Paul is absolutely right and mentioning that it's a genuine career pathway. Now, I think it's an easier career pathway than nepple, which has always been the most popular sport with talents and female athletes. Yes, and it's a more easier on your body career pathway than either of the rugby coats, although they are exploding
in popularity as well. If you're a talented young female sports person, you can be looking out at the WPL where you can get salaries and the six figure salaries.
You can get. You're looking at the women's.
Big Bash, which is you know, high five figure for a couple of months work. There's the woman's hundred, which is only going to get bigger and bigger. And even you know, I know we kind of tend to look at our own domestic crickets more village green type, but the match fees equal to the men's for.
Our domestic game.
There is opportunities there for quite lucrative careers, so I'll be taking there. But beyond that, I think it's critical they get into more schools. Yes, and I'm not talking about your Angie rus and your.
Epsom girls and your sin Hilders.
There is talent oozing out of our schools in New Zealand that do not get access to cricket because cricket is still relatively cost prohibitive in terms of gear, and it's also seen and there's no easy way of putting this, but it's it's seen largely as a white, middle class sport that's changing a bit with the influx of South Asian immigrants and that's great, but I still think with New Zealand cricket has a job to do in breaking down those barriers and those perceptions of cricket being that
kind of game for those kind of school girls.
Yeah yeah, nice point, and once again congratulations to the women for that outstanding result against all the odds. Having said that, they've just gone down to one of the series against India overnight, no meleicure, Yeah yeah.
But hey hey dangerously hungover?
Yeah yeah, probably they probably haven't landed the plane yet. We'll give them. We'll give them that excuse, shall we. But yes, no, superb achievement and well done to them. We're going to take a quick break and be back shortly. You discuss another phenomenal cricket happening New Zealand versus India and India welcome back. Wow, I mean, Stone the Crows. What the bloody hell is going on? We've just been talking about the woman winning the T twenty World Cup
once again. Never in my wildest fantasies and dreams, Paul Forward, would I have ever imagined New Zealand winning a Test series in India. What the hell is going on?
I know, it's utterly extraordinary, and I keep going around and around in my head as to which one was more unexpected, the woman winning the World Cup.
Or this Test series victory.
And it's hard to separate them, to be honest, just unreal and you know when you factor and it's the first time we're ever a series in the World Test Championship. We don't have Williamson, we don't have Henry because one of his lovely glutes was strained. We sent Michael Bracewll home. We were forced to pick Satna because he had a side strain. Then we're up against in India who have built in an utterly formidable fortress at home in eighteen series.
Twelve year long winning streak.
We've got a new captain in there and it's basically, you know, just taken just taken over. There's contract juggling and players that aren't contracted and all that sort of shenanigans is in full swing. We've just been drubbed in Sri Lanka and we've got a whole lot of blokes. We talked about it on this podcast about how poor so many of our players form. The form that they
were in was shit house. It's just extraordinary. And the other thing about it, it's all of those words I said that start with un but it's also really uncontroversial win. We were utterly dominant. It's not a book. It wasn't some miraculous one off performance by one bloke lots of contribution.
Sure, center was fantastic. I'm sure we'll talk about that in a minute. But it wasn't.
It wasn't a fluke. And yeah, I just I just it's mind blowing unbelievable.
Well, that's one of the more extraordinary facets of this for me, is that we were dominant. We didn't just when we were dominant, and you know, I thought after the first test, I'll be honest, and we caught them on the hot.
You know, it was we got lucky with the condition.
With the conditions in that first test. You know, it was a very damp, kind of weird wicket which suited our quicks, Henry Bold magnificently. We caught them on the hot. And now we're going to get our asses handed to us in Pune. And quite the contrary, we solidified even more. And in the face of that, Dylan Cleaver, the Indians crumbled that their first innings batting display was woeful.
Yeah, and let me just say, like if I had gone to a darkness retreat rather than Vietnam and I popped out of the darkness retreat and someone had told me, oh, yeah, we're off to one KDI for the third Test. As a dead rubber, I would have gone, oh, yeah, of course it is, yeah, bigger, yes you too, nil down, let's hope we can save some face in Mumbai. But instead it's just been a series of extraordinary days of cricket.
As Paul mentioned and yourself, it's not just the fact that we caught in here on the hop and that first Test maybe got a little bit lucky with their conditions. Were still bloody well outplayed them, yes, no matter. I mean it was Rowit that won the toss and chose to bat. We completely outplayed them. We played brilliantly. There we go to Pune and they have scrubbed the wicket at both ends, like they have literally handmade that wicket for home town strengths. Yeah, we've won the toss, but
that's only one part of it. We've then gone on and I thought maybe two five nine from being in a reasonable position was maybe forty to fifty run sure too light, Yes, but yeah, I mean we all saw Mitch Santa coming from mile the way, didn't we.
Yeah, come on, come on, well.
Listen, you know because I I've been going through it in my head because we've talked about the side a lot, obviously, and my thought was, where where has this come from? Because I don't understand what the hell's happening. I want to make a reference, actually, Paul forward to that first Test match and that for our first innings when we
were bowling. One of the things that I think was a vast improvement and one of the things that we used to be known for was our fielding and the field the catching in that first innings of that first Test was exceptional.
Yeah, yeah, I agree, and it had been shoddy in Sri Lanka. Yes, it's the best way to describe it.
I think. Yeah, we were we caught.
I think there was one one missed chance I think in that in that first innings. But yeah, when you get when you're getting teams out for forty six, you're taking a lot of catches, you know, let's be honest.
It was yeah, thank god.
Because it was inexplicable that it had got so bad the fielding, so yeah, wonderful, wonderful to see that come back in. But that was only one of the facets that we were dominantant right Debating at the bowling as well.
Yeah, I I want to ask you this question because you know, with the change of captaincy, we were kind of, you know, we knew it was going to be lathamers. I happen to think that Latham's a pretty good skipper. I think he's kind of he strikes me as a no nonsense, doesn't get too wound up about stuff. Do you think Paul, you know, because he's usually been a fill in scapper and now he's actually legitimately got you know, the captaincy. How much of an influence do you think
that was in terms of our performance? Do you think there has been a change of direction under him?
It's an interesting one and I've heard some speculation about this, and I guess I don't really think a hell of a lot was done differently. Frankly, I think that if you put South and his captain, if you put Santner and his captain, if you put Conway in as captain, if you put Mitchell and as captain, you know or Latham, you're going to end up with I think roughly about the same. You've got the same resources as the same coaches. I reckon the same general approach to how you win
Test cricket and so yeah, I'm not sure. I think that maybe the strength of this team is that they are all kind of come at it the same way. The exception would probably be someone like glennhillips 'm not quite sure what you'd get there, but yeah, look I don't I don't think it was noticeable the shift, to be honest now.
Because when Saudi was captain, Latham was frequently in his ear. I noticed Saudi was frequently in Latham's ear. Caine obviously not on this Indian tour, but chipping in from mid off, I think there is one of the readers to my bounced substack made a really good point actually, which I want to get you guys thoughts on, because I think it's I think he worded it very well. I'm not
going to get a perfect but I'll paraphrase that. Clearly, the team has moved and changed since the World Test Championship through natural attrition and guys going off and doing the T twenty circuit.
But there's still those three or four.
Senior guys around the team, and guys like Daryl Mitchell that were coming into that environment before they won the World Test Championship. That have that team culture DNA baked into them. So sure they might not be as strong an eleven now as they were back in those days, but there's still enough tough cricketers.
There's enough cricketers that know how to win tough games.
They might not do it frequently as frequently as we'd like, but it's still there. There's still a really good team culture. There's still a really selfless team culture. And I think we saw the selflessness of the way we battered in those games, like people going out there and reverse sweeping first ball highers shot not worried about their stats, but all they know is that this is our plan. We've
got to put the Indian spinners off early. And it worked, even if a couple of them looks silly from time to time, and I think that's a really important part of it. I'm not denigrating what Tom Nathan did at all, because I think he's you know, you go to India, you will do something no other New Zealand Skippers done. You've done a magnificent job. But I think it is more about the DNA of that team rather than specific
detailed tactics on the day. Although I think they got them really well, and Gary Steed's got to get some credit for that. And on that subject, actually got a bit of correspondence. Sure if I could read to you from Simon, and it's very well written correspondence, she says.
In the year sixteen hundred, Italian cyclist scientist, sorry cyclist scientists, Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church for stating, among other things, that the Earth was not the center of the universe, but in fact one of several planets that revolve around the Sun would burn and Gary Stead at the stake, as Jason Hoyt has been proposing for about two years now, have been an era of the same magnitude.
Love your work, guys, Well.
Hang on, I take issue with that. It was you two that were bagging stead all the time. I said, you know, steady as she goes steady, I'm with you. Um yeah, interesting. And we certainly had a plan against the Indian spinners, and that was very plane to say.
It was a good plan.
And it was a good plan, you know. And funnily enough, Washington Sunda, who I got seven to four in that first innings, I thought initially was the least threatening of the Indian bowlers paul Ford, but he was the one that toppled us in the end.
Probably the one we planned for least too.
Yes, I was.
Gonna say it was a gutsy selection and they've got x Sharpetel sitting in there.
Yeah, I think it was.
He was in the squad for the first Test. Then they brought Sunder in for the second Test and they put Sunder ahead of act Shapatel, which just sort of seemed bizarre. And I saw all sorts of criticism in the Indian papers about that decision. Well that was vindicated as well, I'd suggest. Yes, Sunda was, yeah, superb, but.
It was only the second best bowler in the match. Unbelievable.
Yeah, let's look at the New Zealand badding there. You know, Conways received a fair amount of criticism from Oscus's forms not been greatful quite some time, and watching him bad against Bumra is painful. It's a painful experience because him mainly Yeah, and it's just like he has no clue here of what the hell's going on, but he fought through it. Seventy odd Ratch and Revenger.
I mean, we knew.
This guy was good. But Dylan, he has just really stepped up and just looks a class act.
Yeah, givin Conway, I would describe it as willed himself to seventy, Yes, whereas Ratch and glided his way to sixty four.
It was like a completely different match when he came into player.
Yeah, I know, it's yeah Conway, I think I've mentioned it so often now it's almost become a cliche. But he's just become this enigma at the crease where you get him a bit of whipped outside of stump and he looks like the best player in the world. Yes, you tack him up on his thighs and he looks like a clubby.
Yes, it's just bizarre. But look, he's making a word for him at the moment.
He got those cheap runs at the end of the Street Ancor series which held him in good stead. He's made vital contributions in both tests now, so I think we can lay off dev yeah totally for a little while. We'll give me a couple of test grace Like Tom Lathan was the one that I was really concerned about, Yes, and he ends up playing the pivotal winnings of the match that second innings, eighty six was just incredibly vital.
This is a team that had fallen for about what eighty something to spin in Sri Lanka the Test series. There another kind of one hundred, one hundred and ten all out in India. Right back in that match, Tom Lathan took it away from them with eighty six, which I've been thinking in my head, where does it rank in the list of New Zealand Tests innings overseas. I've probably got great Batch number one with one four six not out at the Whacker that.
And this is only the Test that I've seen.
Obviously, I can't go back to Martin Dunnley getting a double ten at Lord's or you know Stwey Dempster scoring one hundred against England at the Base and all that sort of thing. I can only judge what I see, but I probably got great Batch still.
At number one.
Maybe Williamson's one hundred and forty at the Gabba was a utter masterpiece. Crow one eight eight at the Gabba and then Latham eighty six and Pune is right up there. It's probably right up there with Ken's eighty at the Oval and that series we won in England when he came in at thirty nine for six and smashed eighty. I don't know if you guys got other ones. McCallum two hundred and two at Shajah and the Phil Hughes test was pretty special. But yeah, it's I rate it
so highly. I just think it was the epitome of a captain's knocket.
Totally and I think you're right. Image Yeah, I'm just choking to dear slowly and I think you're totally right. I think it took the game away from India. That was a decisive innings. And it's curious Paul Forward, because when it comes to Tom Latham, I never really feel like he's out of form for me. He's a pretty solid, no nonsense kind of player, but he, you know, he wasn't getting the scores and that was a crucial not from the scapper.
Yeah, defensive masterclass and looked upon very very favorably by people that were at the ground as well, sort of saying, you know, it was really bloody difficult conditions and incredible, you know, an incredibly frustrating innings to be receiving. To be on the other end of Yeah, Yeah, I'm not sure. I guess The thing is with Latham, doesn't really feel like there's anyone sort of beating down the door, so
he probably hasn't felt massively under pressure. And you do get the sense that he would come right, particularly when we get back to New Zealand, but certainly been a long long time between drinks for him.
And it's had a problem that he's not under pressure.
Though, is that maybe has complacency crept in He doesn't appear to be the sort of individual that would get complacent, But no, we're talking two years without a ton twenty nine innings and averaging less than thirty in that time.
Yeah, I mean, maybe it goes back to that question that jaysusked. You know, maybe the burden of the captaincy is kind of the reverse for him and it's made him, I don't know, knuckle down or or maybe you just had some luck.
I don't know. It didn't feel like a lucky innings. They did it and it was gretty and gutsy.
It was a terrific knock and I just wanted to make the point that yesay, his form has been bad, but I never get the he strikes me as a very no nonsense, non hysterical kind of player who is a very professional kind of cricketer. You go through trots, you just keep going, you just keep working at your game. I just want to get your because you're a big fan of know Paul Forward. Just how good has Ratch and Ravendra been? Because you know, he just looks poised out.
He looked class all the way through that series so far.
Yeah, a couple of sublime knocks really and yeah, like I just love watching him bad. He's turning into the guy that you you know, you check the batting order and you're desperate to get in front of the television when you know that he's come in because you know it's going to be something glorious to watch.
You know.
As we've said before, not many players in New Zealand have spent as much time in Indian conditions as Ratch and Revenger. And he really does feel like he feels very at home over there, and yeah, amazing. I think he's top of the batting stats in the series to date. That does not happen very often if you're an overseas player. I think there's guys like Alistair Cook and Steve's Smith
when they're going through these miraculous. Yeah, he's been absolutely instrumental in both of those Test victories with those runs, particularly in the actence of absence of Williamson, and again feels like maybe the gap that Williamson has left has left some space, shifted the pressure onto the shoulders of guys like Lathan and Riven during it's played into New Zealand tens.
And I just want to just ship in terms of our batsman, to shout out to will Young, you know, good steering us home in that first Test match. It was a it was a really courageous not and I was so stoked for him. I was more stoked for
him than anyone else actually. And he's looking solid, he's looking good, and even you know, the Indian commentators are going, why the hell is this guy's average only twenty six, you know, and he's been up and down the order, He's been dropped, he's been out, he's been in, he's been out, he's been up and down. So I'm really really well, yeah, you know, and I was stoked for him.
Now let's focus on the bowling and Santner, who is not a Test match bowler according to Ian Smith, according to most of us, Yeah, yeah, which which just surprised me because I felt that Mitchell Santner has been bowling quite well of late. Why is that? Why isn't he succeeded in that front on the Test match level? Paul Dylan?
What? What?
What? What's the reason for that?
Maybe because others are seen as better, bigger turners of the ball and better options overseas, so he kind of gets the home Kish condition the Test because of his handy batting and the fact that he's really good at tennis and golf and darts and things like that. So but I mean, just the I mean, the shit and probability of this victory is just summed up by two things. You've mentioned that Mitchell santon is the key bowler. He took twenty percent of his Test wickets in three point
five percent of his Tests, Like that's that's insanity. And the fact that Kaan Williamson was absent, so our best player by a country mile is not there. And Mitchell Santa is just boldest to victory in India. It's Yeah, if you're not scratching your head about that, then you know there's something wrong with it. But he what suited him him and Sunda were the tallest spinners.
Yes, yes, quite tall.
Yeah, he is very tall, but he bodies annoying.
He bowls more darty and flat, whereas Sunda and Santanna, with the growing up in white ball cricket, had more had different arm trajectories, They had different revolutions on the ball, different arts, and as it turned out, tall spinners who bowl with a bit of loop were twice as effective as your more darting spinners, which normally is the way to go in India.
Yeah.
Well, you know, the slow of the delivery, the more difficult it was, wasn't it. It was those guys that were darting it in that didn't have quite the same success.
Yeah, they were betting the bat, but only on the outside of Yes, they weren't a triple threat.
Was And I loved Santner's variation. Paul Forward. I believe that was the third best bowling of a New Zealand bowler in Test history.
You had Lepatel Santana.
Yeah, yeah, but she's talk about a surprise and maybe you know, do you think that Santana will go on from there? That will really give him some confidence?
Yes, I do actually, Yeah, as you say, third best bowling figures for New Zealand also the third best bowling figures in India of all time behind aj S Battel and unbelievable bowling performance from Ian both of them. I think it was a nineteen eighty when he scored our century as well. I don't even think this was on TV. And this was one of those series where him and Derek Underwood would go out and get wasted at the pub and then he would turn up and he went
out with a couple of journals. The journos didn't make it to the media box the next day, and both of them out there hitting a century after drinking brandy, and he was saying that he at one point he made the journalist stand on a table, eat a piece of chicken, drink some brandy and recite part of the Gideon's Bible and he fell off the table. So possibly, I don't know if that's how Santa celebrated, but yeah, look it was sensational and yeah, changes of pace gutsy
as well. You know, like when he was starting to get bomb for a couple of six as he was slowing his bowling down, which I thought was just fantastic, showed that that confidence had already come through. Yeah, changes of angle. You mentioned his height, Yeah, really did it encourage got the batsmen into those indecisive positions, and they were prodding and not quite sure about where Well they knew where the ball was going to be, but they
didn't know exactly what it was going to do. Absolutely superb And I love that little period where Pant and Coali were together in the second innings and there's a runout and who's at the end of the runout none other than Santana massive hair ruffles, and then pretty soon after he gets Coli out ow we w in a raging, tantrum, sensational little period.
I just thought it was magic. I loved it.
Yeah.
I loved the batter with Joe's well too. I mean that was just a let cricket. And how good is that kid?
Yeah?
Shit, he's good. Hey he is. He's like a prince out there, you know what I mean. And he smacked that sex that he had off Salvi was it the second ball?
Yeah, I just went, oh, here we go, it's bunkers.
That was an insane blow.
I was going to say, I think there's something interesting about that as well, Like when Joseel got that seventy seven off sixty five, and then there was.
The Judasia Ashwind partnership. I was I was worried. I was.
I was genuinely worried because it just feels like in this series, India haven't really fired a shot with the bat and I was just worried that they were going to do one of those horrible come from behind victories and all that sort of thing.
Yes, I've been thinking about it.
And Dylan, I think you asked whether the reverse you were talking about whether the reverse sweep was the kryptonite to the Indian attack, and I'm sure you've got some thoughts on that. But I actually reckon that the kryptonite in this series is the fact that New Zealand is a really hard team to hate. I reckon the Indians are distracted by some of the IPL draft stuff going on.
I reckon that all the speculation is around who's going to be picked in their squad to go to the border Gavasca series in Australia, and I just reckon they've just they've looked listless, they've looked a bit disinterested, a bit distracted, and I think New Zealand being a really hard team to hate, makes it really hard for India to get pumped up to play us, and it's worked beautifully.
You know. Just on that front, listless, not particularly interested, sort of distracted. You know, who's sort of who I've been watching? Who I was watching in that test series, No Judasia. He seems to be having a good old time. He looks like he doesn't really care, and he's joking away and laughing and having a good time. But I think that's a really fair point. Let me put it to you both very quickly. Our greatest ever test series factory, I think it is.
I think the two one against Australia and eighty five has always been held up as the benchmark. But look, I love that series. Had He was amazing, That was brilliant. Crowe was just starting to show how great a player he was going to be. But it was a this week Australian team. It really was. Hilditch, Robbie Kerr, Greg Richie Dave Gilbert, Bob holland the Simon I've done. All these guys are never going to go down as great
Australian players. Kepler vessels, this is a as listless and as negative body languages row it might have displayed over the last couple of tests. This is a Bollywood Indian side. They are superstars. So this for me goes ahead of Australia and probably the England one Light six is there are thereabouts too, but this one for me is is the gold standard now here here.
I agree Paul Ford.
Yeah, like I I'm trying to think about the series that really kind of captured my imagination, which is maybe not the perfect kind of way of judging it, but yeah, that England versus New Zealand and nineteen ninety nine when England thought they were going to Polverize, I said, we were, you know, this young upstart team that basically went over there and pulled off a miracle. So yeah, that ninety nine. Yeah, those two series in eighty five eighty six, definitely massive,
massive memories. I don't know if it counts as a series, but the World Test Championship wins that a series.
Maybe not now.
So bad nonsense, Now that is the peak.
Yes, it's not a sta Yeah.
So, but I was going to say a couple of honorable mentions. One Nel versus Pakistan in nineteen sixty nine. That was the first day of a series win. We've been trying to win a Test series for forty years. We'd lost thirty series in a row. That was quite a good one, just to chuck it in the mix. And the other one is the honorable mention has to go to the series was it in the I'm trying
to remember what year it was. It was like nineteen sixty nine as well, the Hidley Howarth series when we were up, we were up in the Test match and then it rained. It was seventy India was seventy eight for seven chasing two hundred and sixty eight and.
The groundsman just forgot to come to work that day.
Graham Dowling was out there mopping water off the covers with his socks.
I mean, yeah, yeah.
Um, all right, so let's go to the third Test. Who cares? Really, we're already one. But the Indians will be shitting themselves are I can only imagine Dylan Cleaver, the press they're getting at the moment, and the Indians will be panicking.
With us starting to talk about this Indian team like we've been talking about this New Zealand team since WTC. Are some of those rock stars starting to show their creases a little bit euro it's your Vera Coley's Jadejah Ashwyn. Is it time to phase them out and bring in the next crop of talents. And let's face it, India have probably got about a thousand yes.
Parachutes straight into this team.
And they would be testing quality standard, so they're getting a little bit of that. But do you know how I'm hardwired at the moment with this New Zealand team. I'm still hardwired to expect them to go to Mumbai and get their pants pulled down at k same and if they don't, then I'm still going to be pleasantly surprised and I'm going to be in here next week.
Can you believe it? Can you believe they didn't get absolutely monstered by India?
Again, mate, I am exactly the same. I think the rage of India is going to come pounding down on us. But also conversely, and I think this is what happened a little bit on the second Test, a pull forward. The pressure is all on them and we just need to keep playing our game and keep doing what we're doing. The pressure is all on.
Them totally, totally, and look, India, it's extraordinary that we're talking about. Can New Zealand pull off a Test series whitewash against India?
And India?
I mean, I can't even believe that the words are coming, are spilling out beyond my teeth that I'm saying that.
You know, it's just I just had a quick look.
The only time India have ever lost every match of a series that's gone for more than one Test at home with a nineteen ninety nine two thousand when that was against South Africa. So wow's da let's dare to dream. I do note that the groundsman has said that he's put a sporting pitch in place, so expect a rank turn a sporting as one of those euphemistic doesn't it which so.
Can?
I also just know that Cain Williamson will not be there. There was some hope that he'd fly out and join the squad for either the second or third Test. Gary Steed said that Kane continues to show good signs but isn't quite ready to jump on a plane and join us.
Well, things are looking promising.
We think the best course of action is for him to stay in New Zealand and focus on the final part of his rehab. So he'll be good to go for England the first testingain Seguence about a month away. Do you know what I reckon? I reckon Kine would have been reluctant to go, just because he would have felt slightly fraudulent's the wrong word and possibly defamatory. But
you know, Caine said sort of go. That's so over the top, modest and humble that he thought he might have thought that people felt he was gate crashing on someone else's success. So I reckon he's probably good to go. He just thought those guys have done it and why not just take an extra break?
Yeah.
Absolutely. The World Test Cricket Championship points table India a top sixty two point eight two points, Australia second, Sri Lanka third, News in a fourth ten Test matches, five wins, five losses fifty percent best New Zealand. Can you end up on as an utterly improbable sixty four percent?
India have a.
Five match series in Australia, so they could suffer South Africa in a strong position and against the Bangers, and Bangers might actually be in pole position here. Paul Ford.
Yes, they've got basically I think they need four wins in a drawer out of their remaining matches.
So they need it, They need a few things to go their way. But yeah, so South Africa.
Could storm through and have a bit of an underdog in the final, which would be good. But yeah, look it definitely adds another level of spice to the India Australia series.
That's coming up in a few weeks.
Well, that's going to be so good.
Now.
England named their test squad to our fair Shaw's Ben Stokes, the Skipper, Riehann Armored, Gus Atkinson, Shower, Bash Basher, Jacob bethe Or, Harry Brook, Brydon Cass, Jordan Coxack Crawley, Ben duck At, Jack Leech, Olie Pope, Matthew Pots, Joe Roote, Ollie Stone, Chris Wokes.
I reckon England are there for the taking.
I don't have this, Oh god, I do not have the same sense of trepidation as when they came out here last time in the first flushes of basball. I'm not saying they'd be found out, particularly although clearly we can't produce the kind of wickets that Pakistan did that enable them to overturn a you know one all down and turned around to win to one. But there's some pretty unproving guys in that lineup. Jordan Cox is going to be the wicket keeper because their current wicker keeper
Jamie Smith is on opportunity leave for this series. There's no Mark Wood. Ben Stakes looks a shadow of the cricketer. And I know I'm tempting faate to you, but he really does look like the shadow of a cricketer he was when he first got the captain see Jack Leech show Basher Arian armed. Are they a spin attack that's going to trouble kan Williamson?
Well, not after we've what we've done in India and home conditions. I don't necessarily think they are.
They are going to be heavily reliant on Duckett, Joe Root, Harry Brook and guys like Ollie Stone and look a good, very good cricketers.
But I'm not feeling the same sense of dread as I was.
Olli Pope's out of form too, But yeah, I agree.
I mean we've got cricketers out of form too, but you know, hey, yeah, just on that front, just just going right back to our side very briefly, are we in agreement that Matt Henry is now our premiere stripe bowler. Paul Ford. Yes, okay, good, followed by O'Rourke. I think that's another thing. He's just been fantastic. Your thoughts on the England side, Yeah, look.
I think it's going to be interesting to see.
Yeah, this guy Bethel is just one of these hunch players that the England selectors have thrown in the Max Born and Barbados has never scored a century in professional cricket and he's been picked as a batsman. So absolute roll of the dice there. Hopefully he's shit house. He's got a terrible hair, bleached blonde Jose, you'd hate him.
They can tell.
Yeah, look, I think someone like Chris Wolkes is going to be very good here in New Zealand. But yeah, long may the poor form of Olipope and Ben Starkes continue. Yeah, I think absolutely what Dylan said that Brook and Rope will do a lot of the heavy lifting. Joe Route what he's been out here nine times, He's had sixteen bats, he's scored two hundreds and averages fifty two point five.
Not bad, not bad at all.
Yeah, good stuff. I'll tell you what we're going to do. I'm going to take a quick break at this point and come back in time for Dylan Cleavers. Who am I? Welcome back and it's time for Dylan Cleavers. Who am I? It's Dylan Cleavers, who am I?
Yeah?
Thanks guys.
Yeah, it's been a while since i' dad and I had to dig back in the memory banks to see who it was, and thankfully we had a reader that identified that it was Andy Roberts, who was an absolute cult hero.
J I've got the name of the winner.
You've shut the name off this photo here, Paul. But it's it's the ones that went all the time. Lucky, isn't it Lucky in his dad.
Lucky and his dad with the great Wanger.
Yea, it was Andy Roberts, not the antiguan Andy Robts, but the very own Tierra born Andy Roberts, who was an absolute Indy stalwart and who sadly passed away when he had a heart attack well out on a run in Wellington.
That is such bad luck.
I mean not that certainly the heart attack, but for sure, but it's such bad luck to be a good cricketer at international level. And there's another guy who's an absolute worldy with the same name as you just to run full interference on your whole career.
And that's what happened with ADG.
Roberts from Northern Districts and Anderson Montgomery Everton Roberts, the ferocious Andy Roberts from the West Indies.
That's shit out.
Luck anyway, moving on to this week's Who Am I. I was born into a cricketing family, with dad playing seven first class matches, a number that would have been likely higher were it not for a pesky global frakka circle nineteen thirty nine to forty five. I had a great uncle who also who umpired in Test cricket, and a second cousin who played first class cricket and was a tank driver in the not in the Great War, in the Second World War and fought at Monte Casino.
Enough about them, though, I was a better cricketer by some distance, having played close to two hundred first class matches, with more than a quarter of them Tests. I'd beat a well worn path through Auckland Grammar into the Test team at a young age and was really challenged from my spot in the middle order for the next decade plus. I was a stroke maker, a blue eyed boy, wonder
who never quite fulfilled my potential. Though I played critical roles in places like Pakistan and the West Indies during New Zealand's ascent to cricket and credibility. My career ended just as New Zealand's took off, and in some ways I was superseded by another blue Eye Grammar boy. But he never got to play against George Best, did he?
Who am I?
Ah?
Here you go? Very good? Send your answers to where Paul Ford.
Flick as an email to b YC at Basebrigade dot co dot Nz or slide into the DMS for the Base Brigade or the Alternative Commentary collective on Instagram or facy.
Great staff mate. Now it's time for Paul Forward's Cricket Violence Corner. Paul Forwards Cricket violence Corner.
Troubled Former Australian T twenty slogger Luke pomers Batch has successfully pleaded for his freedom after facing prison for assaulting a security guard who asked him if he had intended buying anything at a Perth pharmacy. Pomasback reacted by punching the worker twice in the chest and he fell over.
Back in two thousand and seven, he was the car park call up kit the toast of Western Australian cricket after blasting his way into international contention and getting pulled out of the Whacker car park when he was at the ground as a punter to make his Australian debut. Astonishingly, he was currently banned from playing for Western Australia at the time because of his drinking habits. Disciplinary issues continue to plague Pomis Batch throughout his playing career, and it
got worse once his career was over. In twenty twenty one, he was told he could be heading to prison for a string of South Perth burglaries stolen golf clubs. No less, he was then charged with the bizarre theft of an electric scooter from a man who was pushing it along a street in Como. Pomas Batch punched him, pinched the scooter and then scarpeed. He was later stopped by police later in the day with the scooter in the.
Back of his car.
God He received a.
Twelve month suspension for the latest incident, twelve months suspended, eight month prison term and he was fined one thousand dollars that will be into the pocket of the security guard.
He is also attending substance abuse counseling.
He sounds like another Perth sporting legend. Who's the AFL guy who constantly ben cousins who constantly.
Got in trouble like that too? Yes, what is it about Perth in Napier?
Well, there you go New Zealand and the rest of the world. That's the end of our podcast today. What's going on with the Bounce there, Dylan Cleaver.
The Bounces fired up the wheel again after after a bit of an absence while overseas. Yeah, we're all over that. Cricket and Pune. What a fantastic day and some of the response I've got to that the piece I wrote post Poune has been fantastic. So thank you all to have jumped on board lately. Dylancleaver dot subsect dot com.
It's free good stuff mate. Well listen, thanks for taking the time to listen to this podcast. We'll be back same time, same place next week. Until then, we'll see you later.