Joe Loyer has agreed to answer our questions, so please send yours to info at Orbitmedia dot fm, or leave them in the comments on Spotify or Apple. Thank you hither, It's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. You're listening to Get the Money and Run. In this episode, episode two, we ask the question what happens when a protector cannot protect those he loves most. I find this episode, particularly part three, heartbreaking. I think you will too. To binge all seven episodes
at once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. All right over to Ben.
You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the Money and Run there and this is episode two. Who's your daddy?
How did you?
How did you discover this bank right here?
You know a lot of times what I would do is I'd go to areas and I would just we would drive around and see if there's possibilities.
Of banks to rob.
I used to spend a lot of time down the street here at a friend's house, so I know this area. I finally drove past this bank and I thought, hey, you know what, it's not the kind of bank I robbed, which is on the corner because my whole thing was
I like to leave a bank. So when I'm followed, people step out of the bank and immediately start swiving in their head side to side looking for cars driving around it, who are trying to get in and out of the parking lot because they're looking for a getaway car. Here they would see me leave the bank and not get into a car in the parking lot where all the cars are. That's too easy for them. So I had to park far away. You want to get on walker, Yeah.
Let's good, let's walk. Let's see what would have happened. So now you've parked your car now and now you're walking to the bank.
Yeah, So I get out of the car. I feel like I've.
Marshaled enough for my will and violence and determination and focus.
So I'm gonna walk in. I'm gonna do what I do. But when I start giving delivery my spiel, I notice that in the back.
There's a woman who's the manager. She spots me and she realized I'm wronging the bank. Eyes locked on me fearlessly. I get the money I spend and I come out the front here and I think, all right, I've done my business.
So when I walk out of the bank, I start walking here.
I look back and the woman's over there and kind of like hiding behind a car, and I'm like, what the hell He's like, I'm gonna try and follow me down the street. And this is why I don't like this kind of setup, because my car is right down there. She's gonna see it. So I look at her and I basically say, like I do my finger like naw, you woman, don't do this.
You don't want to do this. Then again, but just like.
We go on my finger at her like almost like a skull, she don't run back in I'll turn around and I'm like, ah fuck, I know she's gonna follow me because she's not afraid of me. So I walked down about halfway through this thing there, and I turn around. Sure you know she's walking to take care's someone like a cartoon where she's like doing on once on.
Her tiptoe slowly like she's right here.
So now I aggressively look back and I'm like I pointed her really aggressively, like you no go back, and she doesn't move. So I just turn around and start walking faster, and about three steps I immediately pivot and I start running right at her, and I start reaching into my coat and her eyes again, We're like cartoon turner, and I run out of her hair, and she just looked at me and just fun and just like started running as fast as she could.
She was scared. Now now I got her. I'm running full speed of her, reaching into my pocket.
As soon as she spends and starts running, I take two more steps and then pivot and run straight from my car.
I have ten steps before she's even gonna stop to turn around. She's so scared. I got her scared, so.
I immediately go to my car, jump in and make a U turn that way. That woman I always like, man, I like admire that woman. There's something she has some gumption. I hope that's in the DNA, man, because that shit that bodes well for her family.
Part one the Good Life.
So after the last episode, I wanted to get some other perspectives on young Joe's family life and childhood. Thought i'd play some of those interviews.
Joe was cute as a cute as a bug the kid. He was a talkative, He's very charismatic, giving as a little kid, and bright, really bright, and you could tell he was already a going to be a leader by the time he's four and five. The kids would follow him. He wouldn't follow anybody. He was the one that took the leader and everything. And I would observe that, and I said, this kid is going to be a leader. This kid has a mind of his own.
This is Joe's dad, Joe Loyr. There was a time before all the abuse that we heard about in the last episode. Stuff we're going to be unpacking for the next several episodes, and joe'sdad is going to sound like a villain. Both Joe's are going to sound like villains
before we're done. But they're not just villains. So before we get into all the ins and outs, victims and assailants, terrors and terrorized, I want to mark this time, the time before before the wife and mother died, before things went too far, when young just Sor was a new dad with all the optimism and promise provided by his new family, and young Joe Junior was cute and smart and full of potential and hope for the future.
They both were.
One day I asked, I used to ask him. He'd be playing around and I'd be in the kitchen doing it, reading, studying, learning, and i'd I need to come running. The little guy. Okay, he was just five. So he comes into the kitchen. Yes, daddy, Hey, you love me? Yes, I love you a lot. I love you a lot.
How much you loved me? I love you.
He's learning his numbers, right.
I love you a hundred. I love you a hundred, a lot of hundreds.
And one day he came home. He looks at me, he says, Daddy, did you know that numbers never end? I said, yes, I know that. So a few days later and knew near the routine. He comes in there and I said, how much you love daddy? This time he doesn't just answer quickly. He thinks about it. He says the most sweet things for a kid. He says, I love you more than counting goes. I love you more than counting goes. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Joe was everything you could ever want, I could ever want in a child.
He was so incredibly wonderful. I remember that I would come in, he'd hear the door knocking, and he'd sitting on his he'd be sitting on his high chair and he was just you know, sitting there. And then I poked my head and go pick a booh, and he'd go crazy hitting it, laughing, and just really kind of felt so great, so terrific. That's an image that's here. And he grew up and he was just so incredibly wonderful. I just I was so proud of him.
This is Joe's younger brother, Paul.
And one of the things and God blessed him for this. One of the things that my mother and my father did was they Now that I think about it, maybe that's not a good thing, but they gave Joe the responsibility. And you know, as I imagine that, you know, having a two year old responsibility, giving the two year old some responsibility, but they told him it was his job to kind of like protect me because he was the older brother, and Joe, you know, being Joe, kind of
understood like he had this role in my life. Certainly growing up. He he was very much a protector of me. I was the shy kid who hung out with his brother. Because we moved around a lot, there was always a new set of friends, there was always a new set of circumstances, and Joe was much more advanced in interacting in these situations than I was I was much more insecure. I was much more afraid, and Joe knew that. And Joe would always let me tag along because he was
my brother. Joe allowed me into his world. And because he allowed me into his world, people gave me that respect. And you know, I remember I didn't have friends. They were always Joe's friends. Now years later, even into high school, the friends that I had weren't always my age. They were the friends that Joe would make. And then I would tag along and become Joe's friends, and then we would all be, you know, hanging out and you know, lo and behold. I would get friends through, like through
that avenue, but it was always because of Joe. And I remember when I first started learning guitar. I was horrible. I was horrible. Man. I look back and I was like,
I don't even know why. I was like like I picked up that instrument, but I was like, you know, I was so brand new a guitar, and Joe was said, Hey, I'm gonna go to this Bible study tonight, and and I would tell you, hey, can I bring my guitar and would be yeah, yeah, bon man, like it's cool, you know, maybe you could play in front of people and stuff like that, and you know where nobody in my family ever would give me that credibility. Joe always
gave that credibility to me. But you know, as long as I knew that it was cool with Joe, that it was cool that I was, that I was all right, you know, but that's still Those are the types of things where I can't really articulate, like say, hey, you know, Joe would come over and you know, rubber stat me and say, this is my brother, He's cool. Lah la lah. These are just the things that emotionally that I knew because that's the world that I lived in, was the
emotional world. And I lived in a world of of you know, like am I okay? Am I not okay? Emotionally? So I lived in that world and Joe always made sure that I felt okay.
This is Anne Hefernan. She was a friend of Joe's when he was robbing banks.
Joe he knows how to make people love him and he knows how to use language. Some people might feel manipulated by that, but I don't mind being manipulated because I don't mind it. I totally got something out of it. I mean Joe changed my life. Joe wasn't like anyone I had ever met before, and I was this good girl who didn't necessarily want to be a good girl. And so when a hot Mexican bank robber comes to
work in your restaurant and you perk up. Joe came in and he's so full of life, super dynamic, super self assured, and he paid attention to me, and.
I like that.
He just was super jovial, like super super up, super funny. Joe. He loves women, so if you're working in a restaurant, you're surrounded by women generally, right. But also, if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure he held a knife to someone in the freezer. Maybe someone had said something to his girlfriend or so. There was also this rogue kind of piece of him that made him even that much
more interesting. We started talking and he liked that I knew books, and then he was really well read, so he would start quoting from Nietzsche and the whole time, I'm like, be my boyfriend, my boyfriend, my boyfriend, my boyfriend.
Right, but you know he has this girlfriend.
I'm like, I'm going to be his girlfriend. I'm going to be going to be my boyfriend, my friend.
The one time I remember the most was the time when we went to the pantry after work and he slid this envelope across from me and he said, this is who I am. And I opened it up and it was this piece of paper. It was his handwriting, and it said something like so he was trying to tell a story. The idea was he was trying to create a dialogue. And I felt so honored at that moment, and he gave it to me because I felt like
he was really sharing himself with me. And so the most wonderful thing that can happen in a relationship is when someone hands you their soul, Like there was a glimpse into the truth. And then there was We had a Christmas party. Some of the busboy were flirting with me, and Joe came and he just like swept me up and he took me out of that party and then we went back to my place and for that night
I was his girlfriend. So I was living in North Hollywood over this bookie, this bookie's house, and I was living in the upstairs apartment and Joe came over and we're walking up the stairs and then we put on Peter Gabriel. I think in your eyes and we're dancing, and I just thought that, I know, that was so beautiful. And then and then we got naked.
We'll be right back.
Part two, Troublemaker.
I don't think I saw, oh, I want a track to be a criminal. This is how you behave as a criminal. In fact, when I looked around and I saw guys that were these young little trollos, I was like those guys on a track to go to prison. Those guys are already like using drugs and you know, carrying weapons. What I was doing was just stupid, sloppy suffering, like I was just messing up. I felt this strong
sense of entitlement and I wanted to take shit right. So, for example, I saw something, I wanted it to belong to somebody I cared about, and I didn't give a fuck.
I had to go get it. Like that is.
Already showing you I was gonna be a guy who's get out of my way.
If I wants something, I'm gonna go get it. If there's somebody who loves me, cares for me, whatever, whatever, I don't give a fuck.
I need to go get it. And your incident to in my life. In my imagination, just people were objects. When I would later become a bank robber and I would walk in to these towers, I didn't see them as human beings. I've said it before, when I walked in there with the rage that I had, they were chess pieces on a board.
They just needed to move.
I didn't care anything about their family, their futures, their goals, their aspirations, their dreams, their resentments. I didn't care anything that made them human. It was a confusing, desperate, fearful time for me. And my dad has a you know, a ministry, and I'm getting beat in the week. But then on Sunday, you know, all these Christians are like, all this man's the greatest guy on earth and this is actually all of this is the stew that's turning into rage.
Here's Joe's brother Paul.
It was, it was. It was a weird time, you know, it was a really weird time that those years. You know, Yeah, this difficult story too. Yeah, I'm gonna whether this one. I'm gonna whether this one. But this is a difficult story for me that it's one of the things that is a really defining moment in my life. I'm gonna whether this one again. I don't know what day of the week or anything like that, but I know that I was washing dishes and I and I know that
I rarely washed dishes at the time. Like I was like, we know, you have certain roles when you were a little kids, and you know, I was always the dryer. I was never the washer. I was always the dryer. Joe was always the washer. I was always the dryer. But this particular time, you know, my dad yelled at us, and you know, I was again, I was always I was always moved by fear. So I automatically went to the washer and I started washing dishes. And I was nervous and I was just like this this bag of
nerves and so I'm missed. And I was not a very good washer. But you know, again, I'm fourteen years old, thirteen and a half probably at the time. And my dad ended up going to the to the dishes that I had washed, and he picked up a few and you know, obviously I was deficient in my washing capabilities, and he got upset and he started yelling at me.
And he punched my brother in the rib in the back of the ribs, grabs my brother by, pounces on him, grabs by the back of my hair, and starts dunking his head in the soapy dishwater.
He stuck my head under the hot water, the scalding water, and Joe was sitting there rinsing the dishes, and he was just appalled at what it was a cream.
And I'm paralyzed with fear, holding the plate, looking at him, scared to death.
Right because my dad started putting my face into the water, and what I did was just automatically turned my head. And when I turned my head, I think I turned my head to Joe, so our eyes met and for a split second there, Joe could see the fear, and it was one of those just one of those really poignant times in my life where I just had eye contact with Joe and Joe knew that I was afraid and Joe couldn't protect me. Joe wanted to protect me,
but he couldn't. And my dad is holding my head underwater. He lifts my face back up after a few seconds that he just gets right up to my face, man, right up to my face, and he says, you know, he says, you know, you should have died instead of your mother.
He lifts Paul's head on and he says, the words are just just I mean, you should have died instead of your mother.
Thirteen and a half, fourteen. You know, it's one of those defining moments in my life that it's just really really it's just really really sad to remember it. It's really sad to discuss it. But I know that it's not who I am. I know it's not true. I know that I've resolved and reconciled it. I'm you know, I'm a good person.
I try to, you know.
I mean, like that's I'm a survivor of abuse and I can't believe that that happened to me. But it did, and it's still still hurts, you know, it's still earth. It's something that will always hurt. It's something that's really difficult for me to reconcile. But you know, I'm not that little boy anymore, and I'm a lot stronger. I'm a lot stronger.
It is the worst memory in my life, and I remember that night thinking I want to die. I just want to die one because I had always been this brave kid who protected my brother, and that day I could not do. And I was haunted by my brother's face and water coming out of his nose and his eyes a supplication looking at me like just terrified, and I wanted to die. I wanted It was seriously like suicides, take me, Jesus christ Man. I don't want to even
be here. I cannot live with my cowardice. I confronted cowardice that day. And here's the thing. I was smart. I was intense. I had this aggression, and I felt my heart was big and muscular, and even though I was getting beat down, I felt like I was made to be bigger than this. Right, this is what's happening to me now. But one day I'm gonna be blof. And that's why this was so crushing to me, because
I'm sitting there and I feel pathetic. I feel terrible, And I started thinking, oh shit, that dude wants to kill us. He wants one of them, yes, certainly wishes my brother hadn't lived. He wants my brother dead. What about me? We're in Alhambra. I graduated from Ahamborough High School actually, but we're in al Hambro eleventh grade. February February's the worst life for my day of a month of my life, every bad shit that I were having in my mother's death. This event February sucks for me.
It was February and my dad has a girlfriend who I like, and I one day she takes us to Sizzler. That's what I mean. She was cool. She took us a Sizzler. And in those days, sister was the bomb man, like you know, steak house and everything. My sister. One thing, I've become a connoisseur of knives. I like knives. Sister has great knives. And I remember we were talking to her and I tell her that she needs to be my dad. My dad's brutal bates us. He's a fraud.
And I tell her these stories of abuse because I want her to know that super dramatic, the terrible things he does to us. But in telling those stories, I realized I really made my of look soft ass, weak and pathetic and in a in a moment of peak and you know, kind of like quiet humiliation, I just pick up the steak knife and in fact, you know, so saddened, biopathetic. I made myself sound. I pick up the knife, I claim the knife, I I I speak what I'm gonna do the next time he says, I'm
gonna stab him in the neck. Next time he hits it, I'm just gonna stab him the neck. Did you say that? Or I said that? And I hold up the knife And it's like being a novelist, like if you show the gun in the first act, it has to go off.
You're listening to The Burden season four, Get the Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media. Get the Money and Run is produced by Western Sound and Acast Studios. Next up, stay tuned for episode three, The Hunter.
Thanks for listening. Remember to hear all episodes all at once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. It's worth it. You'll find other gripping true crime series there also ad free. If you want to hear Ben talk about this episode, check out the teaser it's in the Burden feed