Joe Loya has agreed to answer our questions, so please send yours to info at Orbitmedia dot FM or leave them in the comments on Spotify or Apple. Thank you, Hi there, It's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. This is Get the Money and Run. In this episode, episode three, we ask what happens when Joe is pushed to the brink and beyond. Joe's answer changes everything. And by the way, this episode took my breath away. Remember to binge all seven episodes ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on
Apple Podcasts. All right over to Ben.
You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the Money and Run. I'm Benedeir and this is episode three The Hunter.
I never remember what motivated me to go to Valencia, California and north of LA And normally my thing was to just stay as close to the freeway as possible. And as I kept driving from long light to long light, thing I should turn around here, I'm like, oh, let me just see a little further. It's gotta be one here. But I get to this bank, I'm like, I'm a mile a half in the freeway, but there's a bank there and this is the perfect kind of bank to rub.
The thing that makes it perfect is it's right there on the street. There's this giant parking lot all around it, and then behind the parking lot there is the Ralphs and a bunch of stores and probably twenty shops in there easily and says, let me fucking do this thing. So I park back there, walk through the parking lot. It's a long parking lot. Yeah, it's a good, little, good little walk. I walk inside the bank and I do my spiel. It's a simple spiel. They have a
bomb or whatever. I pull the bank robbery. I walk out. And this is one of those fascinating like epiphany days. I walk out of the bank and I start walking through the parking lot.
Are you walking or running?
Now?
I'm walking, you're walking. I'm just another person walking between cars right in the parking lot. I'm trying to blend in. But I do turn around, and I notice towlers run out of the bank. And as soon as they run out of the bank and they get to the curb,
they don't look up and see me. What they do is they immediately come out and they start turning ahead left to right, and they start looking in the cars that are driving by, because they assumed, like on TV, that I there was a getaway driver and I'm in one of those cars, because they're buying into the hype, into the old story. They're buying into some false sense of what happens when I'm the reality of what happens.
Like that was something I was invisible. I was looking right at them, and I might as well have been a fucking ghost because they could not see me. They never looked up, they didn't and I just walked away. Casually. Later on, I would continue to do that, and I would always look around and I was marvel at that. But I remember that was the first time where I was like, whoa, I'm right here here. What the fuck? How come you can't see me? You know, it was
really strange. It was an interesting thing on human psychology, you know, to understand that that's what was going on. And I got away.
So at the end of the last episode, you just told your dad's new girlfriend all about the abuse and the trauma that you and your brother Paul are suffering, and then you picked up a knife. You're right, sizzlerry. He picked up a steak knife, and you said the next time your dad hits you, you're gonna stab.
Him in the neck. Yeah, I mean, how.
Did she respond to that? How did she respond to you and your brother telling her all this stuff?
Yeah, she was really shocked. And when I handled the knife for the first thing was like, no, put it down. Violence doesn't solve anything, which is very sweet. But then I realized, you can't tell my dad what happened. You can't confront him. You're not you know, in my head, she's not strong enough. So she tells us she's gonna figure it out, she's the adult, but she won't tell him. But she's such a sweetheart. She has no idea who she's working with. She's not an actress. She's not a
good liar. In fact, that's the thing that's beautiful about her. She's an honest, transparent woman. And what we the information we had just given her devastated her, Like it's just what how do I process? Good people like that don't know how to hide those feelings. But she believed you.
She thought you were telling the truth.
Yeah, she knew where the truth. And even if she didn't, she still had to process the fact that these boys are telling her some really terrible things about the guy had to give her pause, and that's all my dad needed. He could feel the molecules between them shift. Man, there's a thing. And especially if you're an insecure man who's trying to control situations, you pick up you're always picking up the vide Where am I losing hold? We goes by.
We would always go to the laundromat. We would wash clothes and he it was a disco era, like polyester pants were lure her clothes and it was this weird, weird, weird fashioned time. And you know, he used to go to disco and he used to love to dance. My dad was a cool little dancer dude. Man, but we were poor. You know, he had gone bankrupt. We were struggling.
Ye had he lost his job?
Like since yeah, yeah, he'd lost his job.
Oh wow, okay, Uh.
We go to the laundromat. It's a Sunday and I fuck up and I dry his clothes clothing the dryer and they're not supposed to be in the driver. They're not supposed to be at their temperature or right. Somehow I ruin the big chunk of his wardrobe and you know, accidentally, but he was he was very angry. Obviously he was angry. You know, it was frustrated. I'd be frustrated too. You ruin half my shitty wardrobe. I'm gonna be pissed, well,
especially your nice disco clothes and my disco costume. So we come home and he's mad, you know, you know it gives me the slap in the face. Go to the room. We could feel he's angry, and he starts washing dishes, and then he calls me to the kitchen, very strange, all the tension, and he says, he, by the way, I talked to Susie and she told me what you said. An instantly I'm like, fuck, she couldn't keep her mouth shut. We are in trouble. And then he does this thing where he's like, but it's fine,
I get it, you needed to do it. He just goes total Joe magnanimous on us, right, And there's a thing when you're a kid, you want your parents to be righteous. Man. So he says that he's fine with it, and all he needs is for me to be honest and admit that I talked to her about what happened. I confessed to him like yeah, yeah, yeah, I did and it's the first and last time I ever confessed no crime. And the reason is because he immediately gets mad and he was fishing. He didn't know shit. He
was playing me, so he got what he wanted. And then he grabs a teapot and I, oh shit, I got a run. He throws the tea pot of me, hits me, bangs up against my arm or something. I would go running in the bedroom and then it's on like Donkey car mat. He starts beating the shit out of me, and he beats me with everything. I mean, it's like teapot was in there and a hamper. You know, later on the police reports would say, you know, fracture bones and concussion Jesus, yeah, rib and elbow, so yeah.
And I mean, I'm getting a good beating. I'm a vicious beating man, one of the worst. And then he leaves the house and goes to break up with Susie by phone. And when he goes to break with Susie by phone, he has to go to a seventy eleven because we don't have a phone. We're poor, And so he leaves and I tell Paul very quickly get in the bathroom because it clicks in my head. This is the time I need to stab them. I said I would and now gonna do it.
So you were thinking back to like did you actually think about like, yeah, your time in the restaurant, Like I said, I was gonna do it.
Absolutely absolutely. I'm now feeling like I'm swimming in morbidity. Man. I fucking got fear, I got confusion, I got a concussion, I'm getting beat. It's like a fucking fugue state. It's on here. Oh you did do a knife thing. Oh he humiliated you. Oh you don't like feeling that now's the time to do it. Okay, what where's the knives? I don't know, Paul, he's in the bathroom, like protecting it. Bro Like it's just all fucking swimming in that shit,
right And I had already declared it. So there I have something I can even though it feels like it's a miasma, there is something I declared and I put down in the ground. I can grab for and say I said I would stab him next time, and that's what I latch hunt in all of that shit. It's like, Okay, that's the thing will get me out of this moment, This is what you do. You declared it. Let's rock it. And so I go get the knife and put it under the pillow. He comes back and he's stands in
the door. He's looking at me, and he's ready for around two. And ready for around two means I could see ze on the balls of his feet. His neck is loose, he's awe, he's just fucking body's electric, you know. His shoulders are loose. He's he's ready to put in work. He looks at me, and then he looks over in the corner and he sees a weight set, old shitty weight set. He was the kind that had The weights were were cement but wrapped in plastic, and there's this
long bar and he starts. He walks over there, locked eyes on me, menacing me like aha, I got something for your ass. And he goes over there he starts to disassemble the weight. Now that the thing, the assembly that locks it in. It's a big piece of metal. It looks like a big piece of steel, and then there's the bar, and then there's the weights. If he hits me with any of that ship I'm fucking through money that that I'm gonna be injured. No matter what I.
Mean, hitting you with any of those things could kill you.
Yeah. So yeah, So I'm like, what the fuck? This is a whole new level of improvised savagery for this dude. He's mad. So this is what I hate about telling this fucking story. You see. I know this because this is what I do when I go in the bank. Same fucking thing. He's menacing me. He wants a fucking he's he's lapping up my fear and it's just empowering him to do some crazy shit. Right. So, I'm sitting in the bed and then I reach underneath my pillow pull out the knife. I stand up and I look
at him, and he's like, oh shit. And then he like puts the weight down, and you know, I'm holding the steak knife, but I'm only holding it. And then he like starts walking to me slowly, so he put it down, put it down, or give me the knife, give me the knife. I'm like, fuck that, I'm not giving this due the knife, I know I have only this move right here. I run him, charging him and put the arm up, go to attack him. I come up and come down and he puts his arm up
and he blocks me. I'm like, oh shit. He doesn't block me by grabbing my arm. He just blocks me with his arms to my arm could kind of slide up and over and he's like, oh shit. And I get it over and he turns his head and I stab him in the back and he goes into his muscle right next to his spinal cord in his neck, and I stab it in and I'm in there and then I start twisting to try and break it off, and he's like, ah, you killed me, you killed me.
I mean, I'm putting in work and he knows I'm putting in work, and I believe I'm trying to kill him, and he's gonna die, and I'm fucking a beast. In this moment he falls, I stand over him and I say something like fucking dramatic. I don't say this is what your evil hath wrought kind of shit, but I said, like, you get that's what you got coming, or you did this to yourself, or you killed yourself something like that.
I'm out and I go to the bathroom. Propose already out of the front door, said Joey, would you do just let's go run and he runs out without me, ahead of me, and I'm running down the middle of the road and I'm Freemont and then I'm like, okay, he's gonna pull that dude the monster too. And I start worrying, like, oh shit, he wasn't dead when I left, so maybe he pulled it out. Oh what if he's
coming with that night ow shit. I kind of started feeling that, like, what if he lives and pulls it out, We're dead if I I didn't actually make sure he was dead. So n I said, let's go this street. And so we're still going to turn my aunt Glorious on, but we're going up another road and we take the long way instead of the straight Fremont to her house because I didn't want to get in the car and coming and get it it. We finally make it, sneak across the highway and get over there my Glorias, and
I'm like, my dad, I kill my dad. I kill my dad. She calls the cops. She was my dad's closest sister. But she calls the cops.
We'll be right back, So Joe, what happened next?
When cops come and they take us, and I'm calm at the police station, I'm sitting there, like, you know, there's a movie where Kevin Spacey is Kaiser usual suspects, Usual suspects. I'm like one of those cool assute usual suspects.
When I'm just sitting there, I got almost picture of my knees, my legs crossed, and I'm sitting there smoking a cigarette, all casual and cool because I'm not smoking a cigarette any laser and cross But I am so pumped from what happened and feeling the power of that when you kill somebody, and for a moment I thought
my dad was dead. I killed him. That was a different power when you do that and you talk to people who kill people, and I had friends whould say, you know, the you know, the only thing stopping that man from being dead right now, and I say no one, They would say, my decision. And to be a man who that's true to, like, you know the only thing that I'm like sitting here looking here and saying, you have no clue, but the reason your life is because right now I choose to not kill you. That's a
powerful way to move in the world. For a moment, I could feel that, Oh man, I'm the kind of guy who now can just say you you're done. You I let you live longer you you're done. You know that kind of thing, And then they take me to interrogate me. The police officer wants hearing my story, and as I start telling him my story, thinking that I'm telling him how I was abused and he tried to hurt us and I did it on self defense, and
then he starts asking me questions. Very quickly, I start realizing for the kinds of questions he's asking me, like why didn't you run away? Why didn't you call anyone? So you got the knife and you waited in bed? You have waited on your bed with it under the pillow, hiding, And I realized he's painting a picture of me, of laying and wait because the portrait he's paying in his head and he's like, you didn't have to stab him, You could have called us, And he's painted this as
an attempted murder. And I realized, sitting there, I'm smart enough to kind of get the impression that you probably beat the fuck out of your kid, and you don't want you don't like me, you don't like what I represent because we ain't taking shit from people like you, and you're backing my dad's play. I just told you what he did, and he's not looking at me like I'm an abuse kid who tried to defend himself from his
father who came back from round two. But for one, when I'm sitting here telling the story about how I killed my dad, I felt like fucking King Kong. I was like, or maybe David's the better analogy. I fucking took out Goliath right like I I'm a badass, Like I can start looking at this cop like you're a fucking piece of shit for backing my dad's play. I'm starting to like recognize this. He maybe even starting this in the beginning of like, oh, your authority figure, fuck you.
Oh your authority figure could give each other cover to do shit like this to us. Fuck you. I do remember resenting the fuck out of that guy very fast.
So you're sitting in the police station and you thought that you killed your dad, Yeah, what are you feeling towards him in this moment?
Some point in that in the precinct, I learned that he was alive because when they went there, he wasn't there. He's not dead on the floor in there. So we do learn that I do learn that eventually, and the adrenaline all goes away, and all of a sudden, my fucking arms and ribbed. It hurts to breathe because if you've ever had fractured ribs, you know, the tissue around it gets swollen and then your lungs are pushing up again,
so it's hard to breathe. I start having problems, and I explained that I'm having problems, so they take them to the doctor in the hospital. When they get to the hospital, until they find out all the things about me, major concussions and fractions and bruises and all like I'm a I've been abused, and it's no longer attempt to murder clearly at self defense.
The change was big and immediate for Joe and his dad, Joe SR. Let's hear from just senior. Now do you have you know? I wanted to ask, do you have a scar?
Yes?
Can I see it? Yeah? I can see that your hair, your sort of your hair doesn't grow back where it is.
Yeah. My barber.
For years that would ask me, where'd you get that? I said, I was jumped by fifty kung fu guys and I came out of fight with only this, but you should see them. I wasn't in the mood to discuss it. Let me back up to give you the background a little bit. Okay, Okay, So I'm going out with this girl at the time, and I really treated that relationship totally different. And Joe had at that time the habit of anywhere and everywhere he went, he told him.
How badly he was being mistreated.
He told it the people at church, he told it to friends, he told it the family, you know. And this particular time, she wanted to spend some time with the boys. She liked them a lot, and they liked her. So they went out together and spent the day together. I think she took him out to eat in a movie or stuff, and they spent time and they and of course it was time for Joe to get to say something about me, and I had this great reputation
with her, right and what happens. He goes and tells him, oh, my dad has been a brutal man, and blah blah, blah blah blah, just like sticking out to your relationship. And the night she dropped him off, and the next day she came over and she was really told her I never seen him like this, totally different person, very very very standoffish, a very matter of fact. She wasn't there's no affection whatsoever. And these were all things that
she did. And I started putting the pieces together. So what happened is that I told him, I know you talk to so and so. She's like stunned, right, And that set me off and I did hit him again in the Emperor Torso, and I.
Says, just get out of here, get out of here.
So I made myself go for a long I took about a mile walk. When I came back, there's Joe.
With a knife.
And I made the worst mistake possible. I told him, Joe, it's all right, don't use that knife. Please give it to me. Give it to me.
I'm not angry anymore. Give it to me.
And I kept walking, you know, forward, my fault. And I kept walking forward, and I said, I'm not going to hurt you. This is it, this is the end of it. I'm not going to hurt you. I'm not angry anymore. I had an hour to walk and think about things, and after it, I went towards the bed and he was walking backwards and I was walking forward and he fell back on the bed and I jumped on him and said, give me the knife.
It's all right, it's all right.
And he moved up. He moved his body and close to the edge of the bed, and I rolled over and then I felt something warm in my neck. I found something warm in my neck, and then I felt I knew he stabbed me. And then the next thing he does is he turns the knife. I was shocked, and I said, that asshole, you know, I said to my to myself, what an asshole?
He turned the knife.
And then it hit me, and then it hit me. He didn't stab you. You made him stab you. Think of all that, I went my memory went right back when he was a little baby on that high chair, just loving to see his daddy, the one that told me that he loved me.
As long as counting goes.
He was a little child. I was so proud of what happened. You treated him that way. We're here because of you, Joe. It was my moment of clarity. So what if they didn't obey you always? So what if they were the kids they were? They were still loving kids. So what about all this crap that you made important that wasn't that important? They were important. I thought of his mother, how I let her down, and I saw them I will change. It's a long been a long journey.
You can't go through all of that stuff. I don't consider that Joe stabbed me. I consider that I put that knife in his hand and told him to do it. How could he trust me? How could he believe I'm not I didn't attempt to do anything but just take the knife and put it down and talk with him and let him know it will never happen again. No, I'm the culprit here, not him, and I take full responsibility for that. Things changed after that. Joe became more difficult,
and I knew that. I could see his attitude. He was empowered. But you know what, he had every right to go through that again. Had I treated him differently, we wouldn't be here and be experiencing what he had to experience. See, they have a saying payback is you know what? And I was getting mine and I had to shut up and take it because I created this. I had to reach out and I had to be the one they let him know that I loved him and show it, not just say it. Let them know, yeah,
I would. I would make further mistakes, but none of them would include what had happened that day or days before that. That chapter, so to speak, ended then and there was the horrible five six years.
After just tabbing, the boys stayed away from their dad, abused like that, casts a law and dark shadow.
Paul spent time over there with my sister a lot. He'd stay for nights in her garage because he had two jobs, and he'd come home late. And he was he had two jobs and he was in school in high school. Uh, that's been That's Paul all the way, hard worker. Joe, on the other hand, went to live with friends with friends, he went with another family, Okay, and it was it was a time when I missed them.
I knew I had to go through this. I had to prove to them that I cared for them, I loved them, that I knew that I had done a lot of wrong.
But believe it or not, neither Joe nor Paul cut off ties with Joe.
Joe came out to visit me a couple of times. Paul was the first one to come home, but then Joe decided he was going to come home as well. And I was happy to have them both and it was a different dynamic in the house altogether. I had basically learned to just take a hands off approach. Let them experience whatever it's supposed they're supposed to experience, don't get on their cases about things have more levity in the house, don't be threatening in any way, form or shape.
It was an interesting time. Joe tells me that he was cocky and he could sense that I had changed, and I was really trying, but he was going to punish me. He wasn't going to, you know, put some mental pain on me, and which he did, but again I deserved it.
That was my That's what I had to go through.
As soon as he can. Paul joins the military just to get out of there. Joe sticks around you, Stella and starts falling into.
I never blamed my dad for what I did at all, none of my crimes. I say, Dad, when you punch me in the mouth, you did alter my imagination about how effective violence could be. You did do that. But I don't blame him for whatever I did. I just never do feels weak. And something happened that day. I started becoming terrible. This thing that was awakened in me. It was brilliant in a way in that I changed
my story so dramatically. The arc of my story changed, the propulsion of my story changed, and the direction changed from this point of brokenness and pain and even fuzziness because of the concussion what I was able to draw up to make happen. And I tried to kill that man that day. I failed, thank God, But that's what I was trying. I was trying to turn myself in a murderer that day. This was the thing that put me on the path trying to murder my father and father.
You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media. Get the Money and Run is produced by Western Sound and a Cast Studios. Next Day tuned for episode four, Life and Crimes.
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