Death & Deceit in Alliance | 7. The Psychic

Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance.

This man was in a house with a dead body and was either cleaning up for the killer or was the killer.

And a guy came out with a trash bag. That's all I see.

You just glance why that report wasn't provided to the defense, Like, what's up with that?

Did you find somebody you recognized?

I did point out somebody.

Hail says.

Detectives told him later the picture he pointed out was that of an Alliance police officer.

That is the one key part of this case that just never sat right with me. Like the fact that it was never turned over to the defense is shocking.

This is death and Deceit in Alliance, a real time investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane.

I'm Maggie Freeling.

About a month after the murder of Yvonne Lane, Alliance police were stuck. They said that the persons of interest had lawyered up. It seems like they're talking about David. So the police were frustrated and did something some might think is controversial.

One of the things that we became aware at the definition that we did at the police's Tart and beck In January was a.

Tune Chames that turned out.

To being a discussion between you and Altur Maclow and then an unknown female who believed to be a psych Do do you recall top of the psychic on the fifth?

Yes, yeah, a psychic. The detectives turned to a psychic in their stalled investigation. This is Detective Samson in a two thousand and eight deposition. David's attorney is questioning him about two audio tapes that were discovered nearly ten years after the murder and had previously not been handed over to David's defense. The two tapes are of detective Samson and Mucklow speaking to a supposed psychic. They recorded themselves for investigation purposes.

Why did you guys decided to take a step.

To Bill muchel, I wanted to go up, and I said I'd go with him. Was to his idea, Yes, and he felt like.

I think he was being pressured from his wife. Say the wife was into that?

No exactly, Yeah, what do you mean when you say his life at the end of that she was into the psychic reading this and that, and that's where he was getting pressured from. And you should go see it. Psychic so licence next quite two years.

I have identally, I don't know.

Mike, so Bill said he was wanted to go, or may have on call or something, and I'll.

Go with you.

About a month after Evon's murder, Detective Samson and Mucklow went to Cleveland to the psychic.

Yeah, be a mad it makes for death by okay.

You have no idea. I'm a believer. I know the full moon. I want to do it, but.

First I just want to apologize for the poor audio quality. I had to copy twenty two year old cassette tapes and they didn't hold up well. It also sounds like there's birds in the psychic's house. Besides all that, the session sounds pretty much like you'd expect, at least at the beginning. There's talk about the moon and astrological symbols what some might call woo woo stuff, But the psychic

So we don't think she didn't follow me, And she didn't. She didn't, she just h well, well, form to.

Which the psychic follows up later with a vision. Apparently in her mind, she's picturing Yvonne giving someone money. It confuses her.

I think.

The psychic is asking why would Yvonne be giving a guy money. She didn't have any money, and that leads to something shocking from Detective Mucklow.

Got a tip maclaming the other day. She's supposed to be hanging hanging a rut well hanging Marama, the guy by the name of Tommy. But we're supposedly selling drugs, and supposedly Tommy was giving was supplying her with some kind of drug. We didn't find any like cocaine or crack cocaine in the house, but we didn't find a little bit of marijuana.

So Mucklow says she's hanging around a drug deal Tommy. I'm censoring Tommy's last name, like a lot of the people you'll hear in this show. I'm not trying to imply that any of these people are the killer of Yvonne, so to protect them, I'm leaving their full names out. But I do think it's fair to say they at least should have been investigated anyway. Tommy was never interviewed

Turns out it's from a cop. Here's mucklow in his deposition.

Fully, Dave mclahoney was a officer on the police department, was a sergeant, made lieutenant and then he resigned here about six months ago.

He must have he must have said that, you know, he must have gave us a verbal tip that Tommy was providing her with drugs.

This tip coming from a fellow officer should have made it pretty credible to them, and at least they should have followed up on it. They even say he's kind of like a psycho and had an extensive violent record including assault, menacing, and domestic violence, so why didn't they look into him? And this line of questioning by the psychic leads to even more shocking information and names that were never looked into that we know of.

Love Marijana.

You know, he talked to me other night and now I just asked him and he said he got real nervous, and you know, I don't know that cha correct thing.

You brought that up?

And he steps through the stroke.

He's amusing myself in shadow or cool. I mean, you know if he comes and talking. When I brought up on von Lansain, I don't know nothing about it.

I have not.

He was just like you know, pacing and trolling around the circle. I hard to say. I I really don't know the kid that well. He's a barfly, hang out in all of our local bars. He's he's only twenty.

Four five, yeah, I and gentlemen that in that on the bar over there that we've got, uh another position, Mike, Kelly, Frank Kellen can hang out and high. We got some boris you used to dance at Kelly's.

Thank you, Yes, thank you.

Psychic.

The tape is hard to understand, but what we can glean is that now the suspect pool is even larger. Yvonne was hanging out with some shady characters and she was allegedly an exotic dancer. When exactly she was is unknown because again there's no record of this in the police investigated file. So the psychic is suspicious and she starts pushing harder. She didn't watch ye Of course, the psychic seems little incensed at the police's blockheadedness.

You're telling me there's only been for the money back.

She was very promiscuous though, According.

To this conversation with the psychic, Yvonne may be an exotic dnswer and if the psychic suspicions are right, maybe selling sex for money too. This could certainly widen the pool of suspects. Yet there's no record of any investigation into that part of her life, even though the police say they're aware of it. No record, not once in any documents. And it gets weirder. So the question is, if true, who was soliciting Yvonne for sex? Well, the psychic finds that out too.

And she may not be watching right right.

Yes, yeah, she was possibly seeing a police author.

I believe that.

And supposedly the youngest child, maybe this policeman's son, trente ye well annoy.

Okay, dating a married guy with kids. Multiple sources have said a cop maybe the father of Yvonne's youngest child, Trenton, a married cop whose name we're going to beep because no charges were ever filed.

Supposedly he took Benny over there through this policeman to watch and stay there for two weeks.

And the detectives say they confronted the officer and he wasn't me.

It wasn't me. I don't know, I don't know anything about it.

I've ever, I don't know, and I didn't didn't have that, you know.

And then they bring up another cop.

He's kind of a flirt, he likes trying to a conquest.

Yes, a great question.

The psychic asks, how did she get in with so many cops?

How about the fun?

Well, supposedly when we we've asked him about it and denied it at first, but then he said, yeah, we I talked to her and she said she didn't want to see me because.

And then the detectives bring up yet another officer. They bring up Quentin Artists, who, if you remember, was the cop harassing Yvonne. According to her mother. The cops told the psychic that Artists tried to solicit Yvonne for sex.

I find out more about what he knew. I don't think he would go have her killed. But they think he knows more about her background than you guys think. I think that you think thinks are small potato than it's not bigger predatus than what you're thinking.

This girl really is get that. So they felt.

Agree with you.

Bigger potatoes. I just thinking, you guys need that take up your grief. That yeah, an athlog with the past.

So yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. She's had a lot to do with the cops. But it's in contradiction to the Yvonne. Her family knows.

What the story we're getting from both sides of her family.

She didn't go anywhere.

She did at home like students.

But the psychic says, they're lying to you the most.

And she must sham. But she likes somebody's house. She I don't like a kid, joli. It was always fast right. They all came to the door and made out there the many they backed to the bar.

She didn't know it.

Plead for us, what are you telling me? Everytime that comes to my door? Doesn't balance?

That was tough to hear in parts, but the gist is that the psychic is incredulous that Yvonne had so much contact with multiple Alliance Police officers when they were all duty. She said, something doesn't sound right here. She said, you guys need a new police force, and she did not let it go.

I want to know why she needs so many cans?

Why did she miss?

I want to know, what's the connection that so many facts are in your life? Why would guys that are married with kids be picking her up? What's the connection? And listen a whole proof to the plaza? Why did she have so many cups? I want to know why. I'm curious? Why is you know so many caps? You never asked that that I wondered about it? Why you just to see nothing?

Is there?

Somewhere's going at because of what others?

Yeah, but you running around in circles when they question knew why here is a girl who said nothing knows so many?

Please? Why would she do that? Why? Because she screwed him up? But why did she scrom her? Were introduced her childis Lisa? Now would be he didn't ever question that? Why would a girl knows so many? Please me?

Now we will?

Of course we know they didn't. At this point, I was so overwhelmed with what I was hearing from detectives Mucklow and Sampson about their own colleagues, that I decided to call an expert, you know, in.

Terms of the police force.

My god, I had more than eight or nine names of officers who were potential sexual partners.

If you recognize this voice, it's Dwayne Pullman, local TV anchor and investigative reporter you've heard earlier. Dwayne investigated David's case for years, and Dwayne also found that what Mucklow and Samson were telling the psychic about officers from Alliance being involved with Yvonne was pretty widely known.

Some police officers were involved with her, either sexually or in the drug thing, or both. It's probable based on the you know the fact that at that time, it's not just speculation the police were. The officers were involved in the farious activity and criminal activity.

Now, remember earlier in the tapes, Mucklow and Samson told the psychic that they found marijuana in Yvonne's house. Well, there's no record of any marijuana in evidence from Yvonn's home, so either that wasn't true or someone pocketed the marijuana. If you remember from last episode, the Alliance police were stealing drugs and money from the evidence room, So stealing

My suspicion was always that there were so many.

Illegal and troubling connections between police and the criminal element that it almost felt like, let's clean it up kind of thing, no matter who did it, let's clean this up so none of us get drawn in.

He means clean up the scene of the crime, and this makes total sense to me. The crime scene photos show bleach and gloves on the counter, like someone was cleaning up. And maybe the cover up wasn't for the drugs. Maybe it was to cover up that half of the force was sleeping with her. In fact, Mucklow and Samson actually speculate about this themselves. They think that maybe this drug dealer is looking to have something on the cops through Yvonne.

Because this drug guy was putting her up to it, so if he gets caught, he can block me out of the cops for protection.

Came on the heels of corruption, and my only thought is.

That, given what we know about Yvonne is you know, I'm pretty sure people didn't want a lot of that stuff flying out.

Well, yeah, particularly the officers.

Yeah right, maybe that's why they didn't look into leads that led them to drug dealers. The detectives knew any investigation into that side of her life, drugs or sex work, could lead back to them.

Yeah.

I found Alliance to be a really difficult and troubling place to try to get to truth on any subject.

I can't get to facts on anything, and that actually it was a pointer to me over the years became a really clear thing. Is well, of course I can't because the police controlled the narrative and they were dealing with predominantly disadvantaged and impoverished individuals. So you know, that kind of thing was just a swirl of smeary mess. The case is so troubling because any number of people could have been a suspect in this case.

Everyone in this town seems to have some kind of secret or interest in this victim, whether it be drugs, sex or both. I mean, look, who's the suspect? Everybody? So why'd you land on these two.

That's the question, why land on David and Joe.

The avenues or possibilities are endless on who it could have been.

What if it's because David was the furthest away from the drug and sex scene, no investigation into him would lead back to the police in any way.

Can I say one percent that David Thorne is innocent? No, it's because I don't have enough information to absolutely say one thing or the other. But what I do know is with absolute one hundred percent guarantee, he did not get any consideration or fair treatment by the system, and quite frankly, was identified, early, focused on, and then rare roaded into prison.

That's what I know.

Eric remember is Yvonne's starcross lover, bad boy she couldn't get away from.

He's supposedly the father of three of her children.

Duayane interviewed him and left with a disturbing impression.

He was a hot mess.

Yeah, anger and rage, disjointed.

He was he literally very people scared me. He scared me.

Detectives Mucklow and Samson also brought up Jeremy. Jeremy is the boyfriend of Eric's mother, Linda. That's a little complicated, but here's the important thing to remember. Linda had taken in Vinnie. He was Yvonne's special needs child and the son of Eric. Just two weeks before the murder, Yvonne took Vinnie back. Vinnie was the four year old who was in the house dressed and may have seen the murderer. The theory is that Jeremy may have killed Yvonne to get Vinnie back for Linda.

Oh, we don't have a alibi for him, visions. Didn't you talk to him? No, I'm talking about that non spas. Yeah, well we did, and like did he say, uh, he's covered and he gave his fingerprints. He said he'd take a polygraph.

But where is this investigation they did?

And to Jeremy, I haven't seen a record of it, and why did they just drop him if he doesn't have an alibi?

And then the psychic.

Describes her vision the person she says killed Yvonne. She says he's about five foot eight, dark features, and said Yvonne knew him very well.

I want to transject too, I would be a motorcy coffee way and somebody who likes to crouch too. Well, real big just crossing them. I do know the killer has to have the most and he's somebody who's x M. You're a marine guy that killed up the killer is X army or marine.

Jeremy kind of looks starfare mustache.

Well there adolity.

Eight WHOA I described him to A D didn't.

I described the guy to A he didn't?

I I think back in John brought up took twenty. Where was Jeremy born? He was? He was not in the Vietnam War, but he was the Vietnam during the clean up. Okay, yeah, forty I suld like to see air Cameron's forty four.

So he's exactly the age that I just drove for the killer.

Hello, Jeremy is actually five nine, does have a mustache and dark hair, dark eyes. And when I got his arrest record, it also listed something that shook even me somewhat skeptical of the abilities of psychics. He has a cross tattoo on his arm. But whether you're a believer or not, every one of these people should have been looked into, and I have no record of it ever happening, especially because remember Vinny, the four year old witness even

From that standpoint, I was just stunned by a system that didn't evaluate even on motive, the potential, you know, endless motives of others that could have been a play.

In his deposition, Detective Sampson was asked about all of these people mentioned in the psychic tapes.

What I'm trying to find out is what when when other names are brought up by whether they're coming in and tips to EUI or whether you're getting together in its situation like this and kind of joint me coming up with thoughts.

I'm like, who could be?

You know, where can we look for some information? What I'm trying to find out is all these names that come up from here, where they look into or not.

I don't know the problem with the case and the stuff that has I'm filled with.

Every time I talk about this case, I get angst every time.

And I'm a pretty calm guy.

I've been doing journalism for thirty five years at a pretty high level, and I've covered some crazy stuff.

And I felt.

For the first time in my life on this case inadequate on getting to the truth. I've never felt that before. Yeah, and I totally forgive me. I'm not trying to have a.

Session.

But you know that is really really difficult because I worked really hard on this case.

Look, I don't know where you are in life. I know where I am.

This this case has absolutely consumed just about everyone who has touched it, and it's it's it's haunting.

The case is haunting.

The main part I'm trying to I'm trying to help you.

I hope I'm helping you.

Is that as you evaluate everything, the question really comes down to.

Where do you go?

And I knew Dwayne was right. It turns out I didn't open a can of worms. I opened a can of rattlesnakes, corrupt cops, scandals, drugs, and sex. I'm exactly where Dwayne was. Over a decade ago. Dwayne had one TV special, but it led nowhere despite the heart and work that went into it.

I was frustrated and worried. I was stuck.

I didn't want to end up where Dwayne did after a decade, so I decided it was time to let the professionals have a go.

Coming up on death and deceit in Alliance.

Spent a lot of time on that and I guess one question is three hundred dollars to murder a woman in cold blood?

The reason David Thorne is sitting in jail on now is someone that you acknowledge is a fucking liar.

I know that the allegations are out there that even some in the police force wereke an advantage of Yvonne's services.

If that's in fact what was happening.

There's a full blown declaration that they went after three friends of David's.

Did they approached first and tried to coerce them into testifying against David.

There are things that.

Make you say, well, why is he staying at a freaking hotel in town that night?

You know, right off the bat.

A couple of things that raised my eyebrows are the knife in the pants. How did Joe lead them to the circumstances? And Joe did lead them there, then that's a big deal.

Death and deceit in Alliance is produced and reported by me Maggie Freeling, with editorial consulting from Amber Hunt. Aaron Case is our legal researcher. Our executive producer is Steve Fishman. Our engineer and production coordinator is Austin Smith. Eric axelrod Is our assistant producer.