Death & Deceit in Alliance | 12. The Choir Boy

Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance?

Is there any version of the story that is he's sticking to.

That's a tough one to answer.

My boyfriend at the time we saw him there that night.

We didn't know it was that night at the time.

If David did this and you know you didn't and you're protecting him or whatever, then we need to know that.

What did you think?

Is he this like bumbling idiot that you know?

Seems like he's been portrayed us.

How confident are you that Joe had made mention that his friend David wanted his wife killed before it happened.

Oh yeah, this is Death and Deceit and Alliance a real time investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane.

I'm Maggie.

We pulled up to the Marian Correctional Institution, a medium security prison with twenty five hundred prisoners. It looked a lot like well, a prison, high walls, turrets, with guards with rifles, barbed wire, the kind of place that's very scary to visit.

I guess we turn in, well, yeah, I don't know. I think we go up well, I don't know. They're not being very helpful I think it's down here.

I think so too.

Yeah, I think we could have a couple hours if we wanted from one understand.

Who and there is no texting me, so I could be sitting here for four hours.

We're not going to be in there for four hours.

Famous last words.

All right, hold on, we have a smoke burst. I'm I'm gonna go ahead and go in.

They took everything out of their pockets, left phones, recorders, notebooks, and they left me alone in the car in the parking lot.

All right, let's go hello.

This was the conversation we'd been working up to four months. We'd been circling Joe, talking to everyone around him. He was the mystery at the center of this, the guy who implicated himself and David. Would Joe give us something new? I had built him up in my mind for months, nearly a year, And now we were here.

The guys were inside meeting him, and I was stuck waiting in the car, and I waited and waited and made some Instagram videos.

Joe Wilkes right there, and I'm just sitting and I'm so frustrated and excited and nervous.

And waited and sure enough, almost exactly four hours later, the guy's emerged here. The answer to how it's going is, I'm incredibly hungry and anxious.

You guys go in, you meet Joe.

What are your impressions of Joe?

Yeah, I was glad to finally meet Joe.

Joe apparently looked good. He's six' two and in great, shape prison. Muscles he had tattoos up and down both. Arms they said he looked.

TOUGH i, mean what did you?

Think is he this like bumbling idiot that you? Know it seems like he's been portrayed as absolutely.

Not he's Very he's a smart. Guy he's very. Engaging he's a good, communicator great, vocabulary a very likable.

Guy, listen extremely well like he is. Processing he's very good in processing shared, information.

Very, Focused.

And it, was you, KNOW i Liked. JOE i liked sitting With joe for three plus. HOURS i really found him, engaging AND.

I just liked the.

Guy, yeah you, KNOW i think, frankly over the last couple of, decades as you, Know david's had at least a staunch advocate this whole, time and plenty of staunch.

Advocates.

Now it's good to you, know it was good For joe to hear that there are people that he knew and loved back then that's still are out here and remember him as a kind guy that they loved then and still loved.

Today and that really overwhelmed.

Him to know that that was the first time he found that.

Out.

Yeah, yeahs he probably didn't even know.

That Back the guys told, Me joe got choked up hearing about the people on the outside that still care about, him Like sam And, chris even.

Me we weren't trying to make him, Ivose, no not at. All it was very.

Natural, yeah we were passing messages along to him that we told people we went to pass along to, it.

And while we were face to face at that, moment he turned his body sideways because his eyes were filling up with.

Tears and then it was touching for us because like this this good guy who does still, care he has a love for.

People at one, point he, Said i've been in the system my whole life SINCE i was one year, old either foster care or you, know jail. Prison But i've been in the system of my entire.

Life but you're not here to know. That the guys Liked, joe you want to know if the police got this. Wrong you want to know what really happened In Yvonne lane's house the night Of march thirty, first nineteen ninety.

Nine so DO i.

Do you guys believe that there was coercion from?

Police, YES.

I believe at best they did some things that they should not have done to forward this.

Case the guy said that even Though joe was told by police he could leave at, anytime he said he was treated like a.

Captive he told them he was, restrained.

But if he was Handcuffed jane to a, wall that's just not. True that's Not you're not free to.

Leave the cops slammed down, photos he, said bloody photos of the crime, scene and made him stare at.

Them and they're slapping pictures down on the, table and he said he was horrified looking at these. Pictures and then they come in and introduce this statement That david had.

Written joseph's police tell him That david is basically pointing the finger at, him even though he, wasn't and he.

Said he's so overwhelmed by the graphic nature of these. Photos he's not reading what this document reportedly Was david giving a.

Statement so they did they tell him what to?

Say he said that they gave them a, statement that they they told him what.

Happened they told him what, happened and.

Essentially that was what, happened like you did this and this and.

This, yes That david hired and to do.

It and he said it actually started in the car ride when they picked him.

Up they're in the car with him telling, Him oh, Yeah David thorn told.

Us, guilder we've heard this.

Before joe testified at, trial saying they fed him the. STORY i asked about his best, Friend Sam. Peg did he say he Told sam that he Killed?

Yvonne did he say he Told Sam?

Peg he says that he didn't tell her that.

And he does not remember ever telling her, that says he didn't the shrade.

Knife whose knife is? That how is it?

There there's he has no. Recollection he, SAID i had plenty of. KNIVES i didn't buy a knife a K mark that.

Day but the cops story is That joe took them to find the knife that they claim was the murder.

Weapon but he says specifically that it was a police that took him to where that knife.

Was going to be So rose And.

Chris did he see, Them, Yes.

Yes he did see them the night of That wednesday. NIGHT i saw them at the, mall bumped into, them says the conversation was, casual that he did not give any statements about he was there to kill, somebody and in, fact he you, know he specifically, Said i'm not a stupid. Guy if IF i was there to kill, Somebody i'm not going to tell two people That i'm there to kill somebody and then go kill.

Them did he know if On, Yes so he liked this question of had he been?

There did he know?

Her, yes he had been to her house multiple.

TIMES a question is Did joe say he did?

This, No joe said he absolutely did not do. This so he adamantly maintains his innocence that he did not kill.

Avonline Did david do?

This no, Indication, yeah no indication That david did. This he believes That david didn't do.

It he told us that over and over That david didn't have anything to do with. It he didn't have anything to do with.

It so you found him to be, Honest, yeah or at LEAST.

I, MEAN i, mean when he tells YOU i didn't do. This do you believe? Him do you believe that he believes he didn't do?

THIS i believe he believes he didn't do. This, YEAH i absolutely believe he believes he didn't do.

IT i know this sounds. Confusing someone either committed murder or. Didn't, Right, well we know that people can lie to. Themselves they can block stuff, out they can convince themselves that something is the, truth even if it objectively. Isn't and they Said joe seemed believable when he said he was, innocent and for whatever is, worth they didn't since.

He was lying To AND i asked WHAT i thought was a simple, question.

Do we have a timeline for? Him what is his?

Story we don't have the timeline that we would like to have as far as the events of that. Night is that what we're, Asking, Well i'll let you take. It you, know there's just there's a version of events that he's sticking. To, Yes so to answer your, question, yes there is a version of events that he's sticking. To now the follow up question is what's that version of?

Events and this is Where joe's story gets even more complicated than we ever. Imagined remember the coroner couldn't pinpoint the exact time of. Death he gave a twelve hour window that started at seven pm the night of the thirty. First joe tells them That march thirty, first between three to two five, pm he got dropped off at the mall and walked To yvonne's to proposition her for. Sex, now he, said in one of these, versions when he got,

Chris do you believe him that he can't? Remember do you think he's? Lying do you know?

WHAT i think he really doesn't. KNOW i think he really doesn't. Remember, now has he suppressed that subcosts or? Cautiously quite?

Possibly this was just incredible to. Me maybe after all these.

Years the reason he has told so many different stories is because he just can't. Remember maybe he thought no one would believe him if he said he had amnesia for fourteen. Hours i'm more confused than. Ever we continued to work through. Scenarios was there, THIS.

I have someone coming, Over i'll meet you. Later, yeah, yeah so that person could have killed?

Her could Have who was that? Person?

Well, well he even said IF i knew, THAT i wouldn't still be sitting here right.

Now, yeah so.

She's according to, him he went there.

Proposition she, Said, OKAY i will meet you at the. HOTEL i got someone coming over. Now and he goes back to the hotel and SEES Rogi.

Chrichton that's. It joe says.

He doesn't know who the supposed visitor.

Was but did he seem frustrated or did it seem like a convenient lapse?

In, No, oh he's, frustrated but it doesn't seem like he was he was using that to his Convenient BUT i really think he struggles to find what's true what's.

Not they said they Felt joe was trying desperately to help them figure out what was going. On they felt he recognized this is the first, time not Just david would be getting a fair, shot and that meant maybe it was his turn.

Too did he think it was weird the next morning that he doesn't remember.

Anything, well, yes he thinks it's. WEIRD i, mean and he just, said he, SAID i Don't.

I'm not trying to get dick too far out, there BUT i almost wonder if somebody drugged me AND i DID i know.

IT i felt like he really wanted to genuinely give a his.

Best. Yeah, YEAH i think so.

Too it's a lot of that was he wanted to impress us because he wants us to fight for.

It so if this is true That joe was at the, house that's going to be really hard to get.

Around and that leads us to the possibility That joe did do.

It what are the chances this kind man snaps Because yvonne just doesn't want to have sex with.

HIM i don't know. What, NO i, mean that's one of the possibilities that we.

Have to partamions like. THAT i feel like that's definitely. Possible he goes to The trump to get this. Room his impression is she's. Easy he's finally gonna get him some she doesn't, Show she doesn't.

Show he sits there in fucking.

Fumes here he is in a hotel room by, himself down to his last hundred.

Bucks he doesn't seemed like a. Fumor we've never heard of him getting.

That no, Ye so he either goes back down there to confront her about not showing, up.

Hilts, her or goes back down there to confront her about not showing up and finds her dead bottom.

Or both could be out in thee and wakes up in the.

Shower the blackout is so.

Confusing maybe he really did walk in on her dead and blacked it.

Out that's just gone in his bod.

And he's either intensely pocketed and never let it, out or subconsciously it is just so. Buried he's not going to go. There he's not going to retreat. It it's no desire. To SO i think maybe in his mind he's. Afraid maybe he has to be wondering DID i kill?

Him and while we were, processing there was something strange that stuck out To john And danny in the four hours they were With joe the, timeline he said he was At elon's between three and, Five but we know for a Fact joe was at The enox at five pm With david and The lion The. Enochs those are the parents Of joe's friend who'd taken him in for a short, time And Brent enoch testified that he Took joe to do a job and dropped him off at

Either do we.

Have next steps right?

Now how are you?

Feeling what are you?

Thinking, well that's That's it's a. LOT i mean these if it was if it was, easy.

We would all fly in with our camera crew and do a three day investigation and talk to four. People we talked to eight people today And i'll work till midnight or one o'clock and then we have to decompress and revisit all the bits of information and say how does this puzzle fit? Together and it's a lot because the memories you, Know, joe let us know he, Ah and that's the challenge on how we proceed is because there are things That joe just does not.

Remember is bad as he wants.

To he goes to bed every night with the full recognition That Yvonne lane is her death is the reason that he's sleeping in that. Bomb and in the, morning each morning when he wakes, up he has still full recognition That Ivon, lane her murder is the reason he's waking up in The.

Yeah even if he did not do it, right her death is what led to him being in.

There so, dreams the, visions the, hopes the reliving old, memories reminiscing whatever it may, be the autopsy, photos the, trial the civil, trial the reporters and, investigators the advocates For, david everything that he's. Experienced it's very hard for him to remember what's real and what's.

NOT i can't imagine yeah That.

So maybe he's just making up the blackout so he doesn't have to answer any questions about what happened between him And. David maybe he's banking ON dna to point to someone, else and if it, Doesn't joe can always, say, WELL i told.

YOU i was there that night and was just. Confused maybe they did do it.

Together after all fourteen hour amnesia is quite. Convenient and Then john finally says.

IT i, mean If i'm sitting here right, NOW i think That joe Had.

YEAH i think it's tough just to get the words, out isn't it just to say what we know to be, true what we?

Believe is very plas about, That, yeah it's, true what the fuck is?

True probably after processing in the, Car john admits he Believes joe was, involved even though the writing is on the.

WALL i just wasn't ready to admit.

IT i couldn't get past that there could have been someone else, there that someone else could have killed.

Her she definitely had enough traffic at that. Place this is to have been a house where that kind of event may have. Happened that's, Right but god dang fatality of, yes Right, Sam sam's, statement christ And rose's Statement chris IS i Mean joe turn left left?

LEFT i, mean we we all agree that this is a violent, scene.

Like even in a.

BLACKOUT i don't know If joe had that.

RAGE i have no.

IDEA i, mean that's WHAT i don't.

Know AND i would love an expert to tell me if they've ever seen. That, yeah like rage like that come out in a.

Blackout, yeah good.

BOY i, mean what's the old.

SAYING i, mean this isn't clinical, blackout But i'm seeing. Red you're so damn mad that you can't even you just can see. Red you know you.

Can't and so let's Say joe was.

Involved do you believe him when he Says david's not?

Involved that's. Tough that's, tough you.

KNOW i, mean there's there's, listen there's a lot of scenarios that are possible right. Now, YES i believe, them but there's still some things that some questions that need to be.

Answered you brought up, earlier.

You, KNOW i go back to and that's just a scenario that we have to consider at this, point OR i. Do AND i still looking back At, sam found her to be pretty damn credible last.

Night it was just all so much to take in going into this investigation THINKING i would find one thing and having the facts start to lay out something. Different If joe was, involved it really raises the question Was david. Too i've spent two years trying to figure that, out expecting the answers to be, No David thorne was, innocent but laying out the facts we've, gathered. Reconciling what they all point to overwhelmed.

ME i don't, KNOW i feel LIKE i got like, UP i feel LIKE i that.

EMOTIONAL i don't, Know i'd feel really.

Confused this is.

An emotional word dealing with people's, lives really.

CONFUSED i don't WANT i have no. Regrets you guys have spent so much. Time this has been a great journey for, us and it's not.

Over okay That i'm not even there and the town is still in the trainer's.

Bench we're not throwing it. In, yeah we have work to.

Do it is, deflating but that's how every single fucking one of these cases. GOES i, mean there are deflating. Days there, are you, know that's just the reality of.

It i'm just, like what If david did?

This it's a fair, Question.

MAGGIE i don't think he, did but Now i'm really, like what if he fucking?

Did AND i just invested all.

Of this.

Hell bent on his Innocence.

And i'm just going to ADD i can now see how investigators and law enforcement get tunnel, vision make a, judgment and look for ways to to prove. IT i had to try so hard not to do that. Here even WHEN i saw the writing on the, wall my heart was still telling me something.

ELSE i think IT'S i THINK i just felt so strongly for a while and NOW i just don't know and start hitting. Me AND i never have, emotions so that's a.

LOT i. KNOW i just think about.

SEE i don't want to have to say to her THE i.

KNOW i, Know maggie that the whole thought of all that makes me really sad.

Too everybody that we have talked, to everything that we have, learned everything that has every direction that we've been pointed, in for the most, part has shown this is a worthy case to.

Investigate, Definitely so it say worthy case to.

Investigate SO i have no, regrets but worthy cases sometimes.

Don't pan out to be an innocence.

Case, yeah, yeah we're not even.

There we're not. There, look we're, fighters all of, us win or, lose right or. Wrong we're fighting through this to get to the, answers.

Answers THAT i just wasn't ready to deal.

With but there are some real issues with, this there, are Right i'm now AM i trying to convince myself he didn't do this BECAUSE i don't want to deal with the fact THAT i just fucking threw an entire department under the bus for fucking up an investigation that maybe they.

Didn't well WHAT i Told, Danny, well while you were on the, PHONE i, said listen is not mutually.

EXCLUSIVE i mean sometimes the bubbling idiots get it right by. Accident, well a broken clock is right twice a.

Day so, Yeah i'm just trying to reckon with that right.

NOW i, Know, MAGGIE i, know believe. ME i.

Know if it turns out worst case, scenario we were wrong And david did have a role in, This and, anyway we at least can go to bed and say we gave it everything we, had more than any other motherfuckers in THEIR tv shows or their reporting anyone. Else, yeah there was enough enough damage done in this investigation to warrant us being, here.

The commitment we all made to.

This, yeah, yeah you just feel a little.

Stupid, no, no, no, no, No.

Why would you feel. Stupid you have something that was brought into our life for a. Reason And i'm not trying to be zig zigglar. Here i'm just saying we're here for a. REASON i haven't given up On david Or. Joe we have to keep trudging. On body blows coming every, investigation, right especially twenty two year old murder.

Investigations, yeah, yeah this is you, know this is A this is a knockdown with a three count for, sure got seven to?

Go where do we?

GO i, mean what are we what are we even? Doing it's four. O'clock what are we? Doing for the first?

Time we decided to pack it in for the. Day we needed to take a, break hit the hotel bar and clear our. Heads But i'm not much of a head clearer in a situation like. This my brain was, swirling and it turns out neither are the. Guys so we sat at the, bar pouring through, documents trying, frantically furiously to find, something something we missed at LEAST i. WAS i THINK i wanted something that would settle, me make me comfortable with all the Time i'd invested In

INNOCENT i don't.

Know but we did find, something something that did give me the missing PIECE i was looking. For we came across a police report buried in the case file one that would change. Everything it Was sue who had given me the case, files and in the file was a folder of transcripts of audio.

Interviews every TIME i.

Listened to an audio, File sue had a transcript she made to read along with. It, NOW i had gotten the audio files myself from the DA's, office SO i knew whatever they had given to the PUBLIC i also. Had BUT i Had i'd never seen a transcript for this particular, interview SO i checked my audio, folder and sure, enough there was an interview with a woman Named, angie the woman in the police. Report but WHEN i checked the transcripts, again there wasn't. One maybe an oversight On sue's.

To, say this didn't seem.

Like an accidental oversight to Omit angie's transcript from the. Files it seemed like this was an audio RECORDING i wasn't meant to know. About angie Was david's ex, girlfriend and she told police they dated for about five years four years, ago so that would be around nineteen ninety. Five right Before david Met. Yvonne and this is tape from a police interview With. ANGIE i had never heard.

Before can you just draw up to me on the take here how he treated you in so many instances that happened while you were dating, morning very, aggressive very.

Since coming up on deaf And deceit In, alliance you, KNOW i.

Think there's a lot of questions that have never been asked of. Him who was he? Really And i'm NOT i don't want him to try to bullshit.

Us you, know when you leave an interview and you feel like you've shared more information than the person who's fighting for their, life.

There's a reason behind. That AND i said a point blank did that? Happen? No and then he changed the subject pretty. Quickly, man then it started turning for. It that's, fine you, know we know memories on tape. Recorders just tell us what you do.

Remember and he left out he was not going to bring up the fact that he was With joe at The.

Hemings, yeah, hello is this Mister, Toole Charlie? TOOLE i don't know who's.

This death And deceit In alliance is produced and reported by Me Maggie freeling with editorial consulting From Amber. Hunt Aaron case is our legal. Researcher our executive producer Is Steve. Fishman our engineer and production coordinator Is Austin. Smith Eric axelrod is our assistant.

Producer