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Hey, everybody, welcome to the Buck Sexton Show. On this episode, we have our friend Chadwick Moore. Chad is an author. He is the author of The Upcoming Tucker, a book about Tucker Carlson, a biography of the man himself. He also writes for The Spectator and other cool places. Mister Chadwick, good to have you back on the program, sir.
Hey always good to be here, Buck.
So you know, I remember they used to tell us some story that there was like once when I was working in the government, that there was like one State Department analyst. I think maybe this is totally urban legend from the the community, but this is what they used to say. There's like one State Department guy who and there's usually a million of them on everything, who was
covering East Tmoor. And if you remember, there was a time back in the East t Moore there was a you know, a conflict and I think it was a genocide And think is that horrible? And I'm like it was the one guy he was right at the place right at the time. I mean, Tucker is a very very well known name across the board. But to be writing the book on the guy who becomes the center of the cable news universe for no longer being on
cable news must be quite a trip. I mean, you kind of are the analyst on the issue in cable news right now, which is Tucker.
What was that like, Yeah, it was a trip to be I mean, well, it was well, just you know, we started this over a year ago working on this book, and I had submitted my manuscript in March, only two months after my deadline, which is pretty good for a book,
and we were going through the edding process. We were already done with it, and I had the day that he so I was on Tucker's last show that we didn't know was gonna be his last show, which was April twenty first, and that day I actually had a phone call with him scheduled for my final phone call. I had literally five questions laid out, like did I get this right? Can you explain this more? And he had a flight that was delayed and he was like, I'm so sorry. Can we reschedule this for Monday? And
I said sure, I'll text you Monday morning. And then Monday morning, I saw I got the news like everyone else did. I saw on Twitter that his show was got pulled off the air. So, you know, of course, my publisher, my editor calls me. Almost sounded like he was in tears, like what are we going to do? What is going on? And it was of course I texted Tucker. Didn't hear back for a few days because everyone in the world was texting him. But you know, after we kind of the dust settled a bit and
we thought about it for a minute. We were like, this doesn't really change anything about the book. We just have to go back and change a tense from present to past tense when we talked about his Fox two show. And then also we need to add to the book. So I got to interview him twice since the show was taken off the air, and added two new chapters to the book. Because it was a book, you know, about his life and who he is as a person and as a man, and just what his world's like.
So I suppose with the book, nothing really much had to change. We just had to add to it. But it's I guess it's kind of a trip that yes, this did happen right as we were getting ready to announce the book. I mean we were The original publication date was May thirty first, so we've had the public push it back to July eighteenth now. But yeah, it's been it's been pretty wild. Now.
What can you tell us about I mean, there's so much stuff that I want to ask you, but I don't see Unlike I know when people used to ask me questions when I when I came out of government, It's like, don't ask me the questions you know I can't answer because that's no fun because I'm just going to not answer them. So I'm trying to ask you things that I know you'll be able to answer without you know, either spilling too much of what would be
in the book. But also I know you're having a lot of conversations probably these days that are certainly non attribution and maybe even off the record and effect about this. What do we know about why Fox made the decision that they did at this point in time? Like what is known?
Well, there's nothing we can say with absolute certainty because there's no documentary of this. But what is known, I think we can say with a relative amount of fact is that it was something to do with the dominion situation, all right. It was as a result of the of the deafamation suit and the settlement. Now, whether it was a condition in the settlement or not, we don't know.
My sources told me that it was. That these are more than one source who I believe would know, and these are people who've not misled me before, and I don't have any reason to believe they would mislead me now or that they have any reason to lie or make this up. That is what I was told. Now, if you'd ask to me what my theory would have been, I never would have said that to be the case, that it was, that it was a conditioned settlement. Dominions
of course denied this. Fox has denied this. That's what I was told. My theory would have been that it was essentially Rupert Murdoch someone at Fox Fox Management wanting to make an example out of Tucker Carlson, because everyone I talked to at Fox, all the producers of former ten current people who work there, have all told me the same thing about this, and they when asked, this makes no sense. Why would Fox News take the ratings juggernaut off the air, and everyone says the same thing.
They say, management is literally stupid. This is just what they say to me. And that the fact that they didn't understand that Tucker had a brand that was as powerful, if not more powerful, than the entire network. They sort of thought, well, we lost big talent before Bill O'Reilly, Megan, Kelly, Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, and we were always fine. So people told me they didn't really understand the fact that Tucker Carlson isn't really seen as just a talk show host.
He's really seen as a political movement, and he was bringing so many people to cable news and to Fox that normally wouldn't be there, to the point where he was almost artificially extending the life in relevance of cable news all on his own. So my gut would have told me that it was someone trying to make an example out of him to get everyone in line at Fox, because he did not push those those theories about the voting machines being rigged at all. In fact, he pushed
against them quite strongly. Other Fox personalities that did push those theories are still on the air, they still have jobs. That's what my gut would have told me, I had sources tell me something else. So that's sort of where we're at. But I think we can safely say it had something to do with the Diminian situation.
Does Fox recognize what people are starting to say that Fox bud lighted itself with this move? Now that might be a bit extreme, but what do you see? What do you think?
Well, just percentage wise, the numbers are worse than bud Light, I mean bud Light. We had these great visuals everywhere, like the empty store, the empty shelves, and bud Light being still given away for free. But Fox's numbers are bud Lights down like twenty five percent in sales. Fox's numbers are down like sixty two percent in the key demographic and forty percent or thirty seven percent year over year from last year.
Is at a percentage just in the eight o'clock hour. Is that across primetime.
That's across that's across all primetime, that's across the entire network. Actually, and Tucker was number one in the key demographic in all of cable, which is a twenty five to fifty four year old demographic. Here's also number one in twenty five to fifty four year old democrats in all of cable more Democrats at that age watched his show than any other cable news show, So percentage wise, it's pretty bad. I mean, I don't know, if you know it's a
similar situation to bud Light. People say because it's an example of Fox News betraying their customer, betraying their base, their their core audience. I mean, people are really taking this seriously. And you know, it almost seems like now because Fox has done a lot of things to really annoy and piss off its audience, and most prominently, I'm thinking before this, I'm thinking of calling They called Arizona
quite early for Joe Biden. But it seems like a lot of people would continue to watch Fox, or at least Tucker and kind of give the network a pass. I don't think a lot of people were misled about what kind of a company News Corp. Is. They know
it's a big, globalist, multinational corporation. They probably weren't happy with a lot of their investors and the things that News Corp. Is up to, But perhaps they would give News Corp a pass because they allowed Tucker Carlson to speak, and you know, they must a lot of people must thought, well, they let this guy say the things he does, they can't be that bad now that they've gotten rid of him in such a mysterious and unceremonious way. I don't
think those people are coming back. It's been uh, you know, over it's been six weeks now and they haven't returned.
I've never seen anything like it, certainly in the in the TV news business. I don't know if anyone could point to something similar in the past. It's obviously different than the departure of both Bill Arelly and Megan Kelly. Right, Fox wanted Megan to today, she decided to leave. Bill had to go, and nobody really, even in the audience I think, blamed Fox for that. I don't I don't remember.
There are a lot of being like, oh my god, how could you fire him based on the facts of the case as it was at the time, despite the fact that he was had big ratings. This feels very very different, and and it also, you know, as I sit here and speak to you, there's all this reporting over Fox sending a cease and desist letter for Tucker to stop posting video of himself that is a monologue
but you know, it's on Twitter. To me, this is starting to feel a little bit like do you remember when some of the record recording companies record companies were suing like fourteen year old kids for downloading stuff on Napster and everybody was like, he really can't, Like, you're not helping yourself with this one. And I mean, I you know the season desist letter to me and that's now public record, and that's not going to help with
bringing back the audience. It feels like I just don't understand the move.
It's really strange, And you're right, and I love that Napster comparison in the same thing too. So what I was told when Tucker announced he's doing a show on Twitter, the reason why they were doing Twitter is that Twitter is not included and is noncompete. So I've not seen Tucker's contract, but that's what I was told by people who would know, and that's why I decided to go
to Twitter. But also, you know, if you look at that season's assist that Fox sent, it's almost like they're implying that he Oh, the language they use was that he's rendering services. Well, he's not being paid by Elon Musk. He's not making money on Twitter, so I don't legally, I don't think that counts as rendering services in a legal sense. Secondly, you know, everyone on Fox is allowed to have a Twitter account and give their opinions on the current political issues of the day on Twitter. So
you could argue, is Fox doing anything but that? I'm sorry, is Tucker doing anything but that? If he's just putting out videos giving his political opinions of the day not making any money off of it, we don't know. But he is currently still an employee of Fox News, and he's still getting paid to not have a show, And the Ceasons Assist letter makes it seem as though Fox would like to keep him off the air, and that is to keep him silent until his contract runs up,
which is after the next presidential election. Now that's strange, and that's bizarre, especially for a company that's made such a rallying cry out a free speech in both censorship by the government and by private corporations. They have, you know, a segment on every day probably about some corporation trying to silence one and yet here they are silencing probably the most influential and effective conservative voice in the country.
Let's come back in a second here with Chad's book, Tucker and Chadwick. I want to know what you learned about Tucker for this but that people might not know, right, I mean, we know him from the TV presence, but want to see what you can tell us about what the man behind the show is really like. So we'll get to that in just a second. For everybody out there, you know, you just need to do some things in life that are very you know, adult things to do.
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Also, please subscribe to the channel here if you're watching this for the first time, We're gonna have more great interviews with the folks like Chad and talk to me about all the important issues you care about. So please subscribe and also comment below. Send me some comments what you think chat What do you to learn about Tucker from doing a book on him that you didn't know before and that people should.
Know well, you know, he's I knew. I don't think many cable nuts hosts really deserve a biography or or would be a really interesting one to read, honestly, but I kind of always knew, you know, just kind of getting known that he was a very interesting and interesting guy and a very I think emotionally and intellectually rich guy. And he I certainly discovered that, you know, the most important things in his life are definitely his relationship with
his wife and his kids. And his wife, Susie, had been together since they were fifteen years old, which is pretty amazing, and they just have one of the most loving and wonderful relationships I've ever seen. You know. They welcomed me to stay in their home while I was writing this book, and they were just it was so great to see that side of him. But you know, it's it's he comes from a very interesting childhood and background. His dad, Dick Carlson's a journalist who's on television as well.
And Tucker's mother, Lisa Lombardi, she was this California heiress and she abandoned his family. She abandoned her children and her husband when he was six years old, and Tucker never saw her again, so that's sort of an interesting thing to delve into. She died in twenty eleven without him ever seeing her again after he was six years old, and just kind of learning about the history of his
family on both sides. His father was an orphan. There's this sort of long line of abandonment and dysfunction that went back generations, and you really see how Tucker has organized his life and relationships to really end that and to put a stop to that. You know, that was a wonderful thing to see. It's also he's just hilarious. It's just you can just sit around and talk to him for hours and he can talk about anything. So for a biographer and for a writer like me, he's
an absolute dream subject. You just sit down and let him rip and you want to get all of it down because it's so hilarious and delightful and entertaining. So that was a pleasure, you know, just the level to which he was so open. He just allowed me into his life and didn't think twice about it and trusted me. And you know, he's not seen a word of the book,
nor is he asked to. I'm an independent biographer, so that was a really really wonderful to see and experience, you know, I always heard he was sort of like that, but to actually experience it was really great.
Just one thing that I always remember about when Tucker was doing his show in DC, and I lived in DC for a short while about to eighteen months. Uh, and I so occasionally I would I would, I know, you've been a guest in a show tons of times.
I used to do a show from time to time, and sitting with him on set, it's funny because a lot of that and this isn't a knock on anyone else and how they do things, but a lot of the hosts, when you're either right about to start the segment or you know, you're in a break between segments, they're just very you know, they have their papers and they're like, you know, okay, this is what we're gonna talk about. They're very Tucker's sitting there, He's.
Just like, I mean, did you see that guy? And like this guy is you know, and like he's he's talking to you right before you're about to be on air, before three million people are watching. He's talking to you like you're like you're sitting next to him at a bar, or you're in a boat fly fishing with him or whatever and he's just letting it rip and then camera and he just goes right.
But it's you know what I mean, Like other people are like, okay, so like this is we're gonna end up like reading the prompt and they're all focused and they're all you know, they're all in the Ron Burgundy mode. Tucker's sitting there like, you know, I never really played lacrosse, Like that's interesting, like starts talking about stuff.
It's so true. I mean that I actually described that exact scene in the book because I would sit and watch his show and there would always be these local people who would come in and watch, just like little like you know, guys who lived in the area, like little ladies every night, and he'd just be sitting there, cutting up, chatting blah blah. Then suddenly could even even welcome to the carl Sin tonight and you're like, whoa, whoa, he just went live. Wow, okay every single time, You're
totally right, that's exactly how it is. And then commercial break he's just like chatting, having a great time, and yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's really kind of a fun thing to be a part of it to witness for sure.
Well, can you tell us I want to I want to get to what he's planning to do Chadwick next, and then I've got some It is Pride month, as you may be aware, I want to ask you some questions about how that's plying out in a bunch of different ways, corporate America, politically and otherwise. We'll get to that in a second. Comput are like supercomputers these days. I mean compared to what I grew up with, and
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Well a legal battle. It looks like with Fox News they're lawyering up. What I suspect is that they might have their sites on launching their own media company their own channel like I don't know, like The Blazer, Daily Wire or something like that. There was actually so funny enough, it was sort of common knowledge around Fox for a while that they were looking at starting a Tucker Carlson
channel within Fox News. And once again, how you know, short sighted perhaps management was they at the end of it decided no, no, no, We're just gonna give you two shows on Fox Nation. Fox Nation is the future, and that's how it's going to be. I'm not sure how Fox Nation is doing since Tucker got canned, but this has sort of been something that his producers have been looking at to do for a while, so I
wouldn't be surprised if that's the direction that he went. Uh. They've told me that they're in no way committed to staying on Twitter. They're going to test it out see how they like it, but they don't feel committed to staying there. And now, of course there's obviously the legal issues right now.
And I have to say my sense of this. I mean, there's what I there's what I have heard from people, and there's what I've read. Is it Tucker has opened has he openly said that he's willing to walk away, that Fox doesn't have to pay him. He just wants to walk away and let bygones be bygones, and they won't let him. Is that the state of affairs right now with regard to the next step.
I believe that's what he has said. I'm not sure the exact quote, but it's like these Fox contracts and again I haven't seen his can be so onerous that it's like they won't even allow him to do that. And I believe there's some sort of I can't remember what the clause is, but something like well, if you go somewhere else, you can start paying us or something like that. So, I mean, who knows how how restrictive his contract is. This contract, though, was never as restrictive
as some Fox people. You can just tell by looking. Because some Fox people they can't have their image or voice appear anywhere, like no podcasts, they can't give speeches things like that without you know, getting permissions from Fox. That was never the case with Tucker Carlson. He could kind of do ever he wanted and the pier where he wanted.
Hmmm. Interesting. Well, I think that the future of the digital platforms that are out there is very bright, and I think that. I mean, I'll speak from the uh from the personal perspective here. I have cut my cable cord for the first time, actually, and the only thing is funny. I mean, I really, I'll admit, this is the only thing that I was really using because I don't watch professional sports really like maybe tennis, you know, during the US Open or something, but I really don't
watch sports. The only thing that I would watch with my cable subscription was Fox News at eight o'clock. I would watch. I usually have time for the whole show, but I would watch his monologue and that was it. So I'd watched the first fifteen minutes, give or take. And since he let and I've cut my cord to cable and I sit here and I say, I don't miss it at all. And I don't think that business model is sustainable long term anymore. So I don't know
what that means for cable news. CNN is obviously in total disarray as well.
Yeah, yeah for sure, now like Newsmax is beating CNN in some time slots less I saw. It does seem like a medium that has lasted longer than anyone would expect it to have and it's diminishing returns. I've been hearing from years people say that NewsCorp wanted to dump Fox and wanted to sell it eventually. This is just maybe just chatter, I don't know, because it is diminishing
returns on cable even though they were number one. And of course you can't sell a product like that if you have your most famous host is someone who says controversial or provocative, as Tucker Carlson. So I've heard those sort of rumblings for a long time. Who knows, but yeah, it's it's amazing that it still exists in the form that it does to begin with.
One thing I do find troubling though, is that with the let's let's say the cable cord cutting does accelerate the way that people have been saying, and that I do believe it's happening even faster than what the projections three four, five years ago anticipated. But YouTube is so powerful, Chad, and YouTube is ideologically where Twitter was before Elon bought it. And that's what I think people haven't necessarily if you know, if you're not really active on YouTube, you don't watch
much there. That's becoming the single I mean, it is the most single powerful digital video platform. But I think it's becoming a replacement for a lot of people for where they get their news specifically, and they are a bunch of damn communists running that place. I don't know what we're supposed to do about it.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point, I mean, and thankfully there's some Well what's happening with Twitter is is what the show is supposed to be on is Elon's launching. This is what Tucker's producers told me, that he's launching a video service that's meant to compete with YouTube. I always told the name is supposed to be X Video because everything's being branded under X, like SpaceX and X Corp. Is now what owns Twitter? That sounds like like a dirty site to me, But so maybe it'll change a name.
I don't know, or maybe that's a part of the troll. But allegedly what Tucker's show is eventually going to be on is this YouTube competitor that's run through Twitter. So hopefully that could maybe help with the free speech issues and ideological problems of YouTube and made me really put a dent in them.
I like rumble, and I know people be shouting at me right now, Like what about Rumble? Like that's fine. You know YouTube is in arm of Google, which is a subsidiary of Alphabet. I mean, it's like the most powerful company in the world, right as much as like as much, which I think Rumble is great and I do and I love it. They're free speech over there, and that's great. Like it's not Google Alphabet. You know it's not. You know it's so anyway, I just think we got it. We got to sort of stay focused
on what reality is here. I want to ask you a couple of pride questions, Chad. We come back in a second, but first up, you know, the towels you have are probably a little worn, right. It's one of the things you don't think to change that often. And let me tell you, having great towels it's just such a nice thing because it feels better you're using them
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click on the radio listener special square. Get this clearance price of twenty five dollars dollars on the for the towel set, enter promo code bucket MyPillow dot com get the six piece towel set. Also look for other great specials. All right, Chad, the Biden White House flies the Pride flag over the weekend and says, you know something like America is a nation of pride, which I guess is like a play on words or a double on taunder or whatever. What do you think? What do you think
when you see this? Because for a lot of people, I know, the sentiment starts to feel like is there Does anyone understand there can be too much of a celebration of anything?
Right? Yeah, Well it's a little grotesque, isn't it. And it's fact that that new weirdo pride flag with the chevrons on it, which I think it's actually like a flag of like division. It's not really a unity flag. It even looks like a divisive flag. It looks, you know, violent and evil, and it's also one that is meant to divide the community. I mean, it's all trans focused and race focused and it's such the most bizarre thing ever.
And so even flying that flag is strange. But then, of course Biden in his tweet about it, I mean, obviously he's not the one tweeting, but then makes the needs to make the case that we're standing up for transgender children or whatever. If he couldn't be even more creepy and disgusting when you see that flag, Now, that's all you can think about. All you can think about is what they're doing to kids, the stuff in schools,
the transing of kids. It's disgusting. It's not like even like the little innocent rainbow like Okay, we're gonna, like, you know, let an identity group have their day at the White House. It seems a little more sinister than that. And and also like at this point has absolutely nothing to do with like what gay rights or recognition. It's all about this bizarre queer critical theory ideology. That's what
that flag is. It has nothing to do with individual people or rights or or anything of that nature.
Is there is there a growing sense in some quarters within the gay community, Chad, that this activists it seems like all in stance on trans hormones and surgery for minors and drag queens story hour like, and there's always this harnessing of gay rights to this issue, as though these are the same issues that I'm sitting here, and I'm like, look, I'm not in any of these communities so to speak, but they're not the same issue.
Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, there's I mean this is perhaps anecdotal. Well, I guess the only way you can quantify this with data is if you look at the gay how gay votes to increase for Donald Trump in twenty twenty to twenty sixteen, which it double to nearly thirty percent in twenty twenty compared to about fifteen percent
in twenty sixteen for Donald Trump. So I think you're seeing not only this what's happening with the sort of lgbtqiias two S plus plus whatever being just solely focused on gender ideology and queer theory and this radical kids stuff, but you're also seeing a coincide at the time where gay people are growing up, they have their rights, so they're con turned with kitchen table issues, and so you know, they're watching this wacky stuff happening on the left and
then maybe they're thinking, eh, you know, like maybe I want lower taxes, maybe I want safe streets. Fifteen percent of same sex couples now have at least one child at home, compared to thirty eight percent of straight couples. So yeah, I think you're seeing a move. I think
you're seeing a big division of this. I think you're seeing a lot of gay people who are are leaving the left and the Democrat Party based on they're getting older the Republican Party no longer really cares about this stuff, and they're also watching this insanity that's happening on the left and these really horrible things that are being done and committed in the name of them and in their identity.
What is I hear this term used a lot, and just just in Layman's terms, right, what is queer theory?
Like? What is that?
Even I hear it talked about.
What is it? What is it? What does it mean? I mean if I tried to unpack it, I would have an aneurysm. But you can think of it as like like critical race theories, gender cousin. You know, it's like it's like an academic philosophy about essentially, you know, gender being a social construct and then you know sexuality, which.
Its tiers of tiers of oppression within it is that it's like intersectionality, but gender not race, Yes.
Yes, yeah, And when you think of it, and one of the main arguments is that gender is absolutely not real. It's completely made up and people are born blank slates and they're all conditioned to a certain way, which if that's true, that like negates the whole argument of what a homosexual is, which is somebody whose same sex attract because queer theory literally says there's no such thing as
sex or gender. So it's it's not it's it's a bizarre Marxist theory that has been that has co opted the gay rights movement and the massive infrastructure the gay rights movement has built over the last few decades, the amount of money that those organizations have, it's been co opted by this strange academic gender theory. That's that's absolute just Marxism.
Well, I mean, Chad as a gay man, like, what what is the like the gay the gay rights movement? I mean, yeah, you can always argue that there's you know, there are you know, perceptions can change or whatever in society, But in terms of like as a legal matter, what are the other what are the other gay rights that
the gay rights movement is supposed to be fighting for? Right, it almost feels like there's this there's this army of activists that have to find a war to fight, and so transgenderism becomes that war because the other war what are they fighting?
Well, and even ironically, and you're correct about that, and there are any rights that we don't have, but ironically, these people who talk nothing about violence, and they start and they talk about if you don't use someone's pronoun and you're literally killing them or you're helping insmit suicide or whatever. Well, you know, there are places in the world where they could cause play as heroes and activists, and they're not in the United States. They're in the
sixty something nations. It still criminalize homosexuality, especially those that will put gays to death. You know, places like Iran, in Afghanistan, and by the way, in Afghanistan during the American occupation, you couldn't put gay people to death. As soon as Joe Biden's disastrous pull out, what's one of the first things that Taliban did. They reinstated the death penalty for homosexuality. So there are places in the world where these people could go and maybe try to have
a difference and actually do humanitarian work. Instead they try to focus on dismantling systems here and pushing everyone and mutilating experimenting on children for some sick reason.
Yeah, well, Chadwick, we'll continue to talk to you about this and more. When does Tucker the book come out?
It is available for pre order now anywhere you get your books, so you go to tuckerthbook dot com and then it comes out July eighteenth, So if you order it now, you'll get that bookshipped to you on July eighteenth.
I mean, since you're doing a podcast with me, I want to sign a copy. Obviously i'll buy it. Obviously i'll buy it because I like to support the author. But you got to sign it for me, all right, deal?
Of course thatunds.
Good Bye man, thank you, and good work. We'll talk soon.
Thanks man,