Royce Da 5'9" & Courtney Bell Interview

Nice healthy looking lifestyle on y'all, brothers. I can see ye, definitely a healthy lifestyle. Not quite vegan yet. Though not quite vegan yet. I'm not all the way converted, but I'm getting there. I'm getting what you've been up to. Royce's everything. I've been adjusting, man, adjusting to the pandemic, you know what I mean. Like it's tough. It's a tough time, you know what I mean. So I've been trying to keep myself mentally, mentally stable. I'm learning about myself.

I'm learning. Uh. The biggest lesson I learned about myself is I don't need to be speaking all the time. I don't always I don't always need to be saying stuff, you know what I'm saying like that, I'm trying to get my filter together. I'm trying to learn how to protect my energy, especially on like Instagram, my timeline, What to look at? What should I just not look at? Correct? You know what I mean. So that's the biggest adjustment

that I've been making. And then music, you know, I'm always making music, so you know, so right now we got a project card to having experience where I actually I took over ownership of a lot of my masters from back dating back, you know, which is I feel it's super important now, you know, I feel like the artists are artists should look at every song like a straight up asset. You know, we got all of these companies that for the most part, don't even need to

even know about music anymore. They're just looking at it like an investment, which it is, you know what I mean. So now it's the best time to make sure that you've got ownership and make sure that you can figure out new things to be able to do with the masters when you get them. That's a lot of people say, you know, people want their masters, they want their ownership but don't know what to do it. They don't know what to do it when they get them, you know

what I mean. So what's the purpose of having them and you don't know what to do it? You don't know how to monetize them. Well, think about this, Remember when they used to just be physical, just physical copies. You know, you sell it, it sales in the store at one time, and I sit now when you upload it to the streaming platforms, it may not pay out in one big ass lump like it may have before, but it's exists now because it's just present, you know

what I'm saying. So think about it. A lot of these companies they're buying up all of these masters, they signing up all these artists, even at the lowest level. But then you know, it's all catalog and it all adds up, you know what I mean. So I think it's key to just make sure that you have as many things on platforms as possible, and then you know,

other conversations can be opened up. So that's why this is happening, right, Because I'm looking at you like, you got fifteen songs, ten of them our best of us basically, right, Yeah, So this is why this trend of artists dropping projects with catalog, that's why this had become more popular. This because people getting the mass back. I'm not sure. I

can't speak for anybody else. I know with me, with me, as soon as I got them, the first thing I wanted to do because we had to take them down, get them, and then now we need to put them back up. They're there, you know what I'm saying. And then from there, you know, we can have Sky's a limit on what the conversation could be. It was the process of getting it back, was it? You know, some people have to wait a certain amount of time, some

people had to pay people. Was just a conversation. So what was the process with you getting your masters back? All of the abovesa. But you know when you when you have when you signed. You know, from our era when we did deals, it was standard for the for the labels to have control of the master for like seven years or something like that, you know what I mean. So some of it was just waiting out the seven years, going back and getting them. And then it's a process too.

After that said, you know, you got to go through a whole process after that, and then some of it will say hold at me, buy that back, and then some of it. You know, it was all three, you know what I mean. So I'm constantly on that grind like I want everything, I want everything that I've ever done, you know. And then moving forward. Obviously Keeno and I are way more in the no now. So moving forward, there's no deal that we don't know how to do. Do you talk to a lot of the Detroit artis

because it's Detroit, is a new wave of artists coming down. Um, do you get a chance to speak with the younger artists and say, hey, this is how you should be signing your deals? Or is it one of those things when you're like that we knew what we're doing. Anyway, No, I speak to him as much as I can. This is one of them. Let's dud. It's like enlightened beyond

his years. He's not he's non problematic. But um, there's a few artists, a few young artists in my studio that I kind of mentor not to the degree of him, but um, there's a lot of companies I call them like middleman middleman guys, you know what I mean, Like they come with a bag of money. Um, they don't have much to offer, but since they have money upfront, and they're catching these guys at a time where they kind of need money or they feel like that they

need money. Um, it's already in the contract. I actually read somebody's proposal and it said, um, we will have ownership of a master in perpetuity, and then we'll split everything sixty forty sixty US forty you and give you a five thousand dollars advance. And he was thinking about signing that for five thousand dollars guy, because yeah, because

we don't number one. We programmed to think shortsided correct, definitely, we have no kind of like idea of how to place value on that master, so early on we don't know what it's gonna be worth until it comes out and then it goes and then it's like, damn, Okay, now I know a little bit more. Now I want to go get the master back. Now it's the same old song and dance publicly from a public platform, you bashing some company or something like that, which that shit

don't look good either, you know what I mean? But you get it. I get it. You understand you signed that deal for five thousand, right, and this is what. This is what most people. It was something that somebody think though you make one hit, the label puts out that run hit. Now you're making Remember, artists don't make five thousand and ten thousand dollars to show if they got a hit. They're making forty fifty sixty thousand US show very rare, a lot of very thin. I think

it's I think it's probably left. In conversation on the way here, I'm I'm we were looking at the jar and her interview. We was talking about RV's position, and I honestly see RV's position on it. I see labels position. That's probably why we we balanced what we do. If I'm a label, or if I'm a person and I give you five grand and it goes nowhere, you don't know me that five grand back, Yeah right, you know.

But when it goes somewhere, it's an investment. You invest an Apple, Apple don't get the I'm you and say well, we're gonna take our stocks back because we're making too much. It's a deal. The problem is we don't always understand the complexity other deals because we don't come from homes where that type of business is discussed you can't be mad. You have to have an attorney. So that means your attorney looks over that paperwork in most cases. Yeah, but

your attorney is the attorney. That's right. We got I give you an attorneys just to attorney. You can't have an attorney. But you know how that conversation came up

in the car. I said, do you think it's possible for me, a black man, to cultivate a real meaningful relationship with an artist and on his masters And I said yeah, he said, for a period, for any period of time, I think, so there is there any point where that artist it's gonna get a little bit wiser, a little bit bigger, and then look look at it in retrospects, if possible for him or her not to harbor Yeah, I agree with you negotiate though, like when

that artist catches that hit. It has to be a point where it said, okay, I made my money back after investment. Because it's not just five thousand dollars. You gotta pay for travel. You gotta pay for Warter. That's the bigger traveling you're paying for. What would your renegotiation be? It depends how big the record is like a perfect example, right, sorry, Cardi B. When Cardi B was first signed, they put a lot into Cardi B. But then she took off.

That should have been to renegotiate right then, and there you got the one of the biggest female artists. Give it half the company she Cardi B. That's my opinion and for everybody. But let me once I recoup my money, me and her should be equal partners fifty. But then what happens when you got five Cardi bs on your label? Exactly? And that's what I was gonna say to about the masters conversation. It's about the investment you put in them. You know what I mean. I don't want none of

your masters if I didn't make a large investment. But if I made a large investment, and I can see why, I gotta get it back, or we could we could do I think what we all should be doing, which is, as the older generation, we need to get through to the youth and let them see it's a different way to do it, right, because that's this is probably the biggest disparity between uh, the youth and the ogs that we've seen, right, We've all come in, we've all had mentors,

that we've seen and and respected and learned a lot from. This is the first time where the youth is looking at us like there's there's a disconnect. And we think the disconnect is because as long as you could separate the youth from the experience, then it's easier to get them in these these quick deals and and and take them for a ride. And we're gonna be held to

a different standard than the labels would be. I mean like that, Yeah, you here the way niggas talk about whole buff you know what I'm saying, Like I don't nobody talk about le or don't nobody talking about none of these labels, correct, But listen, let whole do something. That should do something, Let any of any of us do something. And it's just like, oh man, you wrong, how could you do that? You know what I mean. But when you're invest in somebody, like let's say him,

you're investing them. You're paying for everything, right because he's getting the start. So you're paying for studio time. Right if people don't think studio time is expensive, but you're paying for studio time, You're paying for them lights to be on, you're paying for the engineer, you're paying for the food, the per diem, the water, traveling hotels, wardrobe. If they don't have it, now he has to make a record. If that record don't pop, you don't get

none of that money back. And you're doing it on some family shit. You know, we're gonna spoil each other, you know what I mean, And that creates a sense of entitlement, you know what I'm saying. So it's just that's why, that's why I acts in the context of building cultivating the relationship, because you know, we do everything on some family shit, you know what I'm so it's difficult to be able to do that kind of business

and cultivate a relationship. That's why I feel like labels have existed with the evolution of technology the way they have so long. It's because they can just keep it strictly business. Is that? The other problem too, though, that the black exact, dude do the family thing. We're a family, We we rocked for life, we bad boy for life. Isn't that Should it just be more business? That's what it always feels like, even when like you look at me sign in the raws or Drake and and you know,

Nikki sign in the Wayne it's a family. It's a family when we win, Yeah, but then when you start throwing them bricks out, then it's f that person that you just called your family. You know, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. I don't know. I don't have to say that because we want when we come from now like we and our and our culture, we come from broken family. So the ability to make money with our family. It

ain't just music. I mean, it could be the dope game too, right, it ain't too many differences from the way we approached the dope game and music. But at the end of the day, it's it's it's it still starts with leadership. Bro. I went out there. I went out there when when Puff was working on the press Play album, I went out there to work for him, and this nigga had me in like a midi room just writing versus over and over and over again while he was in the bigger, luxurious a room with all

of his celebrity friends and shit. And I was just like, man, this nicka ain't paid me, you know what I'm saying, Like this nigga grind me. Man. About ten years later, after I was a little wiser, I looked at him in retrospect. Man, I had to hit him on the DM. I didn't have his numb. I had to hear him on the DM, man and tell him how much I appreciate him, how much I took from that, Like it was because of that process that I started to rewrite in my own creative process. Like I was like, I

didn't even rewrite my own shit this much. Why don't I approach my ship? But this same kind of intensity I pulled that from it. And just the opportunity, you know what I mean, Like sometimes man, we take for granted the opportunity. And I looked at him and thought about how many great things he's contributed to the culture, and how how much all of the bad stuff or the quote unquote bad stuff is always placed in front

of the same with Baby. I wish I could call Baby and tell him how great I think he is, you know what I mean? Because it's like every time you hear about these guys as well, they're on drugs, they're doing this, nig kissing, this nigga in the nigga doing this. But it's like, bro, these nigga's been existence since nineteen ninety seven. Nineteen ninety seven has not stopped.

If that was anybody else from any other culture of people, them niggas would be they would be statute, verse, nor appreciate.

Even Dame I was. I seen Dame this weekend and I was on a panel with him, and the middle of panel, I had to say thank you and he was like for what I was like back then when I was doing mixtapes, even though it was like ninety nine, I was like, you had an opportunity to do the Rockefeller mixtapes with Clue with S and S with Flex, but you said you wanted a young DJ at the time. You picked me, and I was like, thank you because

you were cheap. You know. He was shot that I said thank you, But I was like, you know what, when you grow a little bit, you really understand how much of a how grateful it was to have that opportunity because you don't have those opportunities. Yeah, but I will say though ten years ago, you wasn't know new nigga Royce. No, no, no, no, I say in the room that you ain't no new ye I was saying

ten years later from when that was, remember the press playout. Yeah, but even with that rush, the five not should have been treating with a little bit more respect, I think. No, no, no, I was on a private jet with him. We went to talk. Okay, just when we was up at daddy side. You remember how long ago, you know what I mean? I was, I was he definitely when he reached out to me, my man Slam shout out to my man Slam Wiz packs and ship. But he slam reached out

to me. And I was definitely just sitting around Detroit at that time when he reached out, for sure, and I was gonna ask, you know, with everything you've been doing this industry, the ups downs, the group's solo projects, what makes you want to jump back into this on the on the executive side. I don't want to jump in on the executive side like that. I don't right now. I'm more focused on um mentorship, artist development because I'm an artist at heart, you know what I mean. And

m Roy's hate the business side. No no, no no, no, no no no, see because he on it and he's on the he's on the executive side. He just don't want it. He don't want to sitting sitting in an interview with your artists. Been calling me, he's kind of e been calling me a suit for twenty five years. Man, he don't want admit it. Listen, I love I love doing business. I don't want to send the wrong I don't want

to send the wrong sitting. I love doing business. I don't look forward to doing certain kinds of business with people who I have a relationship with. It's very difficult. I'm gonna cancer. It's very newtiful for me to separate business and personal. You know what I mean, somebody I care about, it's gonna be hard for me to like this nigga be like, yeah, okay, so this we're gonna do. We' gonna get him something standard. Baby can't do that, you

know what I mean, don't. That's what we defer, you know what I'm saying, because he's more he's more of the business side. He's always been more focused on the business side, because that's all he's ever been. He's never been on the creative side. But you gotta go through it again. You're gonna have to go through talking to producers, Yeah, talking through artists, talking to DJ's. You're gonna have to go through the gamut again that people that you think

his family. Until you got a new project in the life I don't know or you want to beat. And it's like for you, Royce, I do it for free. But for him, you know you're gonna have to go through that again. Man, Even when I'm doing albums, there's never been a time where I enjoyed calling people for features. I hate that part. He's the worst. That's why. That's why I stopped doing especially especially Yeah, you make sure you did album. Yes, And that's why I stopped. That's

why CALLI lapped all of y'all. But he's greater that he doesn't He doesn't mind, he doesn't mind being persistent. I'm from a place where if I ask you once and you say yes, I shouldn't have to ask you that that's ego, though it is, that's ego. Your ego get wounded one time. Now you just want to fall back, like no, if you want something, go get it relentless. I tell people, I tell these kids, you have to have a DJ Khalid level of annoyance. The megan in

this business. I don't even know if I don't even know if I would categorize that shit is annoying. You know, it's relentless. It's like I admire I wish I had that, you know what I mean? But I can't. I can't do it because I get inside my own heir real quick, you know what I'm saying, like this nigga, No, he's just nigga. No I'm calling him, but you name this to having experienced. I wanted to correct me from wrong.

He didn't. Haven't want to name your children. No, Having is the name of my studio, your studio, name of my label? Got you? Yea having studios? So okay, it's like a hub, man, It's like I built like a hub. Why you never came to the studio, man, huh, We're coming back out there. I was just in Detroit drop

dropping off packs. I'm gonna come about it, okay, Okay, Yeah, So it's it's like a it's like a hub that's kind of like where me and him got kind of tight at you know, I've been new I'm always been a fan of him. But it's a it's a hub for artists to come developed. And when I say developed, I don't mean just come and just make a bunch of music, you know, like obviously the doors are open for them to come and do that as well, but

just to come half conversation man about life shit. You know, allow me to bestow some of my wisdom on your young process, because every single mistake you can think of that you're gonna make, I made them Tim's ten. That's where I learned all my greatest lessons, you know what I mean? And I feel like it's a part of it. It's a part of success and evolution to apply that back to the environment, apply that back to the generation coming behind you. Otherwise you can't consider what you're doing

success part of it. What made you decide to work with with Royce? Same thing I've always been a fan of I'm a lyrics is, you know, I feel like coming from Detroit, that's what we bred on. I'm a fan of them. I'm a fan of Sean and even outside of the culture, the big Ales, the rock cams, like I studied that growing up, so like I studied his cadences when I first picked up my pen and I respect him as a man first outside of business, we have a real relationship with each other, Like we

really kick it on an intimate level. So you know, it was divine that it happened more than anything. How do you feel about Detroit's rap game. Now, I feel like Detroite is like run record away from really being the next city that takes the next Are you crazy? Next? Memphisis I would say this Detroit street all day long, but memphisis street and radio when it comes to it. We're getting it away from that going because there's so

many Detroite artists. That's we're missing the mentors though. We are missing the executive side because most of the people became executives. You know, Paul Rosenberg, he's here, I came here or you went to La right, So, but who Memphis got on the executives? Guy he's signed on the artist he signed, whether it's black, whether it's money back Yo, whether it is he's signed an artist. Like, that's the one thing I don't see in Detroit, an artists in tit.

I think Memphis had that. Detroit might just be getting the dependence of it all because that goes back to three to six. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like and being your own label, having your own studios, put the artists you want to push. You didn't have. We didn't have a lot of people coming back home. You know what I'm saying? When when when when Mario wine

is left. You know, Mario kind of left. You know when I left, I left like a lot of dudes from Memphis three six Carlos, six, tol Brody who who did a lot of puff like they went home, so they was able to get what we're talking about, right, But they were able to get I say as an

executive side. But you know, Royce says Mentor, and we was just saying, I use the word um artist development when we talk about artists because I think it's gone beyond telling somebody how to write a song, Like artist development for me has been like how do you how do you get a hit record and come on here and not go home and die? How do you say to how do you learn how to have to write conversations? How do you get a million dollars and not go

by rims or have everybody else your lawyer account? Everybody take their money, but there's no understanding of how wealth is created. So for us, arts development is and I think what roy says mentor, it's about really just giving them the tools and the resources and the strategies. Because the hit record can come and go. One hit record can set you up for life, or you had ten albums and just teaching them the importance of solidarity. I mean,

that's what we're always missing Detroit. Obviously it's a little better now than it's been, but this is by far, by far, the best place Detroit has been in cultural you know what I'm saying, Like, we got so many artists popping right now, but we are missing with like what you said, we don't have that executive like Gotti come in and signing up everybody, which would help to kind of bring us all a little bit closer. You know,

everybody's kind of like just all over the coach. Can't trying to sign every Detroit not the only ones Gazi trying to sign. Everybody's looking at Detroit right now. Last week I went through. I drove to Detroit. I think like seven eight artists. I went to the each each one of their hoods is to see how different it is.

But just the fact that they get so much love in each one of their hoods and all that music is playing was like, damn, they just I just want to see it go, like go go, and that's like a Landa was like I think we're there though, yeah, I think, And that's what I was about to say, like just to answer your question, like before the industry came to the city, because I'm a part of that generation, the baby Faced Rais and all of them. We are our own celebrity in our neighborhoods and in the city.

So outside of the culture, like we're we'll get a million, two million views alone just in Detroit before it catches and sparks outside of our culture. So like, I feel like that's the biggest thing with us, and you know, chiming in on what y'all said, it is pivotal that we have that connection between the ogs and my generation because now being in the age of social media, we're in a space to where it's like with us having that disconnect. Oh, I don't need you because now I

have money like you have money. I have the resources like you have it, but we don't have the wisdom and the innerstanding of the business side. And they hustlers, Yeah for sure, they hustlers too, So they their concern is we coming and get the money. They don't necessarily give about hit records, you know what I'm saying. So I think that's that's why you don't see, you know, songs even structured like they're even trying to be on like radio like first day Out. Yeah, just incredible, incredible.

It was like I'll see where they're coming from, like that vessel and code that records. I wonder if because I think about like Shady Aftermath, right, like, was was that the right machine? But at the time, it just wasn't a plethora of artists like it is now. Because m did what he could right like he had de twelve, he had obe him did an amazing job. Put the light on trick. Yeah, even when he was even when he wasn't trying, you know what i mean, Like just

what he did opened up so many doors. Back then, it was Detroit was broken down like this. You had the street rapper side, which was the street niggas who rapped kind of like what you see now, and then you had hip hop nigga side that was us, the backpackers quote unquote from the hip hop shop. So myself proof everybody on our side got a deal. Every single person from that era on the hip hop side gotta deal. It was just our time, you know what I'm saying.

And I'm gonna take it even further, like the Street Lords, cheddar Boys, rock Bottom, all of these crews that were making the street records back then, who were kind of in competition with us. They were making straight up club classic, street classic records that still play today. That they were the kind of records that y'all are talking about that the youngest now are missing. The youngest now are kind

of like a derivative of these guys. Street Lord wand Blade Guy arrested Soul and it just wasn't the game hadn't caught up to what they were doing yet. Now the game has caught up to that. And the doors wide open for the vessels the side of the the babies, and they pick that ship through and they came stumping. But I wish I wish one of them would make no no no no no no no no. I wish one of them make one of them because if they do that, that's it. It's yeah. Now, I see you

have a lot of people come to Heaven Studio. Chris Webber was just there. I think Jake Cole was there once. I think I saw you pick your cold. So what's going on? Is it records being made? Like? What is it? Yeah, it's records being made. Um see. Webb actually came the other day he played some beats. But um, we got some other stuff that we're doing. Um, can I talk about that In the marijuana business, we partnered up and we're doing some stuff canadaj the derogatory term he just got,

well you know what it is, canceled. No, no, no no. But somebody told me who was in the cannabis business that marijuana was. It was a term that white people used to use for a weed coming out of Mexico, and so it's actually a bad kind of They look down the term cannabis. Okay, okay, cool, So I see weed, we probably okay, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say cannabis. I'm gonna go with my attorney on this. So yeah, we were partnering it up on some stuff in the

cannabis business. We're doing some NFT stuff together and we're gonna make some music together. And then he has a bunch of dope ideas on stuff that we can do. And it was just a long time coming. We met, We met like a while back, but we never really

got a chance to connect like that. So we spent some time with each other and just seeing how like minded we were, and um, I'm into that right now, you know, just being around like minded people, real niggas, you know what I'm saying, building relationships and just figuring out ways that we can um use our viability that we bring to the table, put it together and figure out what we can do and just be real creative with what that could be. They got a lot of

lies it too, though. First in Detroit, that's wild to me. They got to legalize it. You meant, well, you know it's only in Detroit, but it's crazy because you can go five minutes out into the white area and it's legal. But this little recreational which makes no sense, which makes

no sense. You know, we don't. We don't give Chris Webbing, Jail and Rolls and Jimmy King and Ray Jackson and Juwan Howard the credit they deserve, right because I'm not even I'm not from Detroit, but I look at those brothers. They were so unapologetically black at a time when we didn't see that type of unapologetic blackness on TV and bracing hip hop the way that they did. But as a Detroit native, how how how did that impact? Man?

It impacted me in a way that me and see Webb set and talked about that very thing you just said for five hours. Wow. The niggas they shifted to paradigm. Man, they changed the way that players wanted to dress like Yo. They first ones with the long baggy shorts, the big baggy jerseys, with the shirt T shirt under it, with the sleeves cut off. It was their idea to go with the haaraces that did not match the uniform. It was their idea for everybody to cut their hair ball.

They Wow, and they were freshmen, all of them freshmen, all of them freshmen starting running shit. You know what I'm saying. It's just they paved the way for the AI paved it, and I you know, we need more of that, man, We need more people m for lack of a better phrase, obviously, but to kind of like give the system a little bit of pushback, you know what I mean? Like it's just necessary, man, It's not necessary. I gotta ask slaw the house of y'all back on

good terms. I don't know what month this was, what week it was. I happened to term Instagram and I've seen y'all arguing on Instagram. You would you would you were the middle man, you would have one trying to calm things down, and they were going back and forth and I just turned to I was like, I can't see these bubbs argument anymore. So you're back good. I mean we never we never. I mean I could never say we're bad, you know what I mean? Like they listen, man,

we've been We've spent ten years together. Man, damn there every day building something special, you know what I mean. And it just it just ended in a very unfortunate way. But I can't just sum it up like that. Man, I can't. I can't, I can't. I'm sorry. Man, it's my doorbell of the studio. I'm sorry. Probably just George Dash So so I can't just sum it up like, nah, we ain't good, you know what I mean. Now we

haven't spoken. You know, two of the guys, Crooking and Joel, made some made some decisions that you know, we can't really come back from in terms of business, and that's really it. Decision was they decided to do their own group or do their own thing together. Nah they Um, I'm give you the short version. But me and Joe is sitting around minding our own business and we look up and they they release they start rolling out a project. The project was called The Rise and Fall of Slaughterhouse.

They put this project out in the project is announcing to the world that the group is old. And this is why we had already went through a long negotiation with Shady to pull the group off the label so we can do things moving forward, so we can make another album, so we can relaunch merchandise, so we can relaunch everything slaughter House. And for whatever reason, so y'a were gonna do another album, even Joe was gonna do get in the studio and do another album at that time.

Absolutely okay, absolutely, And so the whole album was basically about how Joe Knock gonna wrap Cricket came to the table with a deal idea. We didn't want to do it, so day over it. They're done, The group is done. And I just felt like that was a hell of a thing to blindside me with as a friend and as a business partner, because number one, if the group is gonna be over, that's fine. Things and things and

all the time, let me know that. Send me a text, shoot me a text letting me know what you're done, or if you're gonna go public and say that you're done with the group, that's cool, but don't just go public and just announced that the group is done, you know what I mean. Like that's I expected more out of Crooked. I didn't have as much of a problem with Joel because you know, me and Joel always been been cool. But me and Crook, I thought we were

better than that, you know what I mean. So it was more of a it's more of a personal more of a personal thing, you know what I mean. But I can't. I can't bring myself to a point where I can get on a public platform and bashing in them though, you know what I mean. I got too much love for him, and I think the amount of love I got for him is what made me so disappointed, you know what I mean. So it go back to what I was saying earlier, just about you know, airing

out how I feel on public platforms. Bunn told me, like when we first, when Slaughterhouse first became a thing, he called me. Any time I ever aired out anything publicly if it involved family, I always regretted it, and that always resonated with me, and I've done I've went since that conversation, I went and done that probably fifty times, and I regretted it every time. So you know, so

that's one of the things that I'm working on. So to answer your question, no, no more slaughter House, but still nothing beloved always I respect everything, as you said, And I feel like that should have been an easy conversation for crooking in Joel because Joe don't want to rap. So if you don't want to wrap, there's no slaughter house. So why shouldn't they be able to go do their

own project. Well, it's easy to paint Joe as that because of how many things he said publicly, But when we having conference, when we're having conference calls and he's a part of every call and we having creative conversations about what we're gonna do next, you know what I mean? He was gonna get back and then do it. Joe staying is I'm not I'm retired. I'm doing I'm in the content space. But I'm really into ownership right now. I will wrap in slaughter House if we own it,

but we got to own it. It can't be on Shady And if we decide to take it to another label, I would be particular on how we would do that deal because we already built this. This is something we built already, and I agree that it shouldn't just sit on Shady. It shouldn't just sit on Shady if Shady doesn't want to release it. And this is respectfully because I love them too. Always, it shouldn't just sit on Shady.

We built it. It's ours. So when we got it off of Shady, man, I was like, that was like fulfilling. It was like it was bitter sweet. It was bitter sweet because it was like, damn, I had a vision for doing this with my good friend, you know what I mean, But it didn't work out for obvious reasons.

So getting it off of there and still now having it back in our possession and having something that we built, the first tangible thing that we built in this business organically, you know, multimillion dollar brand that we built from the ground. When everybody told us, y'all been around the block, y'all can't man, y'all never be able to do festivals, y'all don't have songs, y'all don't have hooks, you know what I'm saying. Like, and we kind of like defied all

of those odds, you know what I'm saying. So to get to that point with Joe being way more knowledgeable obviously myself being way more knowledgeable, and then just having it in our possession and for them to just jump the gun like that because of a deal that he put on the table, which he that's never been his role in the group. But I mean anything that anybody

put on the table, I would consider it. But I think that we should be allowed to ask questions, right like if if if I put something on the table for us and you ask questions, or even if you say no, does that mean everything is over? Or does that mean we go to another label? We hadn't talked to any other labels yet. We hadn't even talked to a label in that situation. We talked to a guy who was talking to a label. We never had nothing on paper. There never was a proposal in black and

white for us to look at. It was just a conversation. He didn't like how the conversation went, so he decided, fuck them, We're gonna go do this. I feel playing devil's advocate, right, do you feel like the white devil's advocate? We know Joe was doing well with his content, creating everything that he's doing you're obviously doing well. Could it be a situation where maybe Joel and Crooket weren't doing as well because the group was so much financial for them.

I mean, y'all were going on tours, y'all. I don't think y'all ever really got the money that y'all deserved. Yet you feel like maybe that was their way of saying, look, I gotta feed my family at the end of the day. Possibly possibly, And I mean, listen, that makes it even worse because it's like, Bro, if that's what it was, we who are you supposed to have been talking to? You know what I'm saying, Like, who who wouldn't understand?

Who would understand that more than your brother? Me, the guy who've been up and down, up and down just like anybody else in this business. You know what I'm saying, Like, I understand the ups and down. So if it's if this is a downtime and this is like something, because there's been plenty of things that I've done that I've done because one of my rules in the group was I don't like I'm not doing any three man shows.

In three man all members gotta be there. There's been plenty of times Joe couldn't make it where they were like, yo, listen, we need you to come do this because we need the money. And I did it, you know what I mean? So what is that was just a bad deal, like Roy's gonna be. It was a bad deal. They possessioned a bad deal and they use a lot of stuff that was happening within the group. Um, it was just

a bad deal, right person. There were times when when Joe was ready to wrap and we couldn't get crooked a rap. They don't talk about that shit, you know what I'm saying, Like I couldn't crook rap Crook Cooker always ready to wrap. Crook didn't want to know see see what I'm saying. See See, people got the wrong impression about people. And that's why Joe is easy to

paint as a certain thing. He's easy talking. Yeah, look like they look like the blue collar guys, correct, you know the guys who you know willing the road, They sleeves a fuck all that Crook he had his ways about him the whole time. He always had some issue with Joe that he wouldn't address. It was always in the air. I can't quite put my finger on what that was. But this nigga that made Joe disrecords, he didn't did it. All types of shit, you know what

I'm saying. People just didn't hear you know what I mean. But he did it. He did it, And there was a time where he was like, nah, I ain't rapping, you know what I mean. Nobody fucking went out and put out an album about him not rapping and saying that the group is over with. It's just it's messy. And then on the business side, it's like, Yo, you're not You're not sucking up our ship. You're sucking up your ship too, you know what I mean. We're all

taking the same altogether. And then you know, like during the whole process, you painted me, You painted me in a certain light. You had to paint me in a certain light in order to be able to do that. And I'm just trying to figure out what what did I do to deserve that? Yeah, I mean, there's no record silent because I heard I heard people getting invited to the Frank stand on those those calls, right, I never did. Didn't somebody sayd SMD on one of those calls?

Oh no, no, Joe, Joe, Joe, one of them. I was like, Joe, Yeah, Joe said that project, that project of SMD. He said that project that probably could suck my did Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, well maybe it was the project. Oh yeah, maybe that's not that's just yeah that when I started seeing it on lies, like you know what, enough, that was just that was just some Joe shit to say though, you know what I'm saying, like it, But it wasn't like Joel know how Joe talked,

you know what I mean? So that wasn't that wasn't really nothing. That was one of them things where you can take it. You can take it super super offensive and personal if you if you choose to. But Joe Joel said a lot of He said a lot of weird stuff too, you know what I mean, Like everybody played their part. I'm I'm holding myself accountable for the for the part that I played to you know what I mean? But I meant, did you play you think? I mean, you're making it hard for me because I

don't do much wrong. Charlotte Man, I just I just I just um I think um I did that thing that I was talking about. I went on Joe's show and I was I was frustrated in my reaction to what they did, caused Crook to react to how I reacted, you know what I mean, And then what he said, what he said made me block them, It made me block him on social media and made me block his number because I don't. I love them too much and

I don't want nothing else to get said. That's gonna that's gonna turn me up, that's gonna put me up there, you know what I mean. So, and I don't feel like there's anything that should go on in the wrap space that should even bring you to that, you know what I mean. But we all we all gardened something, you know what I mean, Like we all gardened. Rather it's our egos. We come from environments where the measuring stick to cool and some souped up tough guys. Shit,

you know what I mean. Like everybody's like, watch how you talk to me, respect me, But everybody ain't being so respectful, you know. So talk to me about the Loupe Fiasco thing, because I still don't understand what that went left. Ye're doing a podcast together the next thing, you know, it's disrecords flaming. I really don't know, Like I've tried to follow it. But I really don't know how that turns into that. And at first I thought it was friendly, just on something like I'm super ly

Loupe super lyrical. Let's you know. It was friendly. It was friendly, it was friendly. But the same thing happened. There was a conversation on live stream on a on a on the platform, public platform for everybody to see, and Loupe um he made an assumption, he assumed because murder much and loaded luks Um. One of those who got one of those guys posed the question who would win in a battle between me and Louke. Now, now Urel had already reached out to us and asked us

what we battled each other on the platform. We said no, We talked about it. We agreed that that's not even something that we would be interested in. I never even looked at lou as as like a um uhh, that he could be an op up mind, you know what I mean? Like, I don't feel like that he's that he's that kind of rapper. I think he's an amazing rapper, correct, But I don't think he's that kind of rapper. I don't think of guys like him when I think of if I thought, damn, if I was to battle somebody,

who would it be? You know, I would think about people like sigh, Hi, you know, people who are more aggressive and you know, like attacking MC's kind of style, you know, lyric You know, louis more of like a cerebral,

top tier amazing lyricists. So m so we said no. So when they when load of Lux and Move posed that question, they called Lou and start just hyping him up, saying, you know, like I think Lux was like, I think you will win, you know, So whatever they talked about, Lou assumed that I was the person who initiated that conversation, so he thought that I spoke to him and we agreed that we wouldn't battle, And then I turned around and went and sparked up a conversation trying to bait

him back into going on that stage to battle me. And he didn't like that. But the way he did it with just it just wasn't cool. Or he dodn't call you and ask you that's what the fuck I'm saying. So he can't. So, so me and Young Guru we on live stream and then he's in the comments saying bring him in, so I bring him in. I was meet him young Guru. I think Muke was on there too, and we bring him home. This nigga ain't got no shirt on, like he walking around with it. Everything to

do with it. Smoke, you want to smoke because it's like my nigga, I came up with a dad who used to cust me out not wearing no shirt all the time. You know. So he like he like I seen it immediately. He was turned up already as soon as he brought him on. Yeah, nigga, you're gonna keep bringing this ship up and making food lot of yourself. Get yourself embarrassed, nigga. And it was just like I said, Lou,

put your shirt back. Put your shirt back on, I said, and calm down now now we're doing a podcast together. There were two other times that he kind of turned up on me and he get passionate and he just start kind of raising his voice, and you know, Luke, building a relationship with him was kind of like a

case study man for me. It's like the challenge to me is building a relationship with somebody, coexisting with somebody who you know, you may have conflicting ideologies with um it's somebody who you may not necessarily have a relationship with if it weren't for the music space, which I think is I'm intrigued by that, right because I think he's such an incredible lyricism. I think he's so different

from me. But I think that through through music we can we can we can find we can find the neutral things that we agree on, and we can also learn to agree to disagree on the things we don't agree on without having to try to change how each other feels. And you know, like, to me, that's the ultimate way of building solidarity because I think black people with us, black people in general, we feel like, shit, we got to be a monolith. We don't, you know what I mean? Like we all pretty much have the

same goal. Did everybody's agenda starts to change a little bit, and everybody's pathway to get into that end goal it's different, but everybody thinks that their pathway is so superior to somebody else's. So and I think music is the only thing that can kind of neutralize that. So um, And I like Lou, I still do. I like him as a person. I think you're real cool. I disagree with a lot of shit did he has to say? But so, um,

he started yelling. He yelled a couple of times at me on the podcast, and I just told him, it's not a problem. It's okay for you to like cross my boundary if you don't know my boundary, as long as when I let you know about it, you know you can make that correction moving on and we find So it never was like an argument or nothing, but it was just like, Yo, the yelling is the only thing that I'm not I can't really do. I don't

do the yelling. I don't yell at nobody in my life, and nobody yells at me, you know what I mean. So that's just not something I'm willing to, you know, deal with. Some people are different. Some people are cool with that. Some people don't like when you lie. Some people don't like, Yo, don't yell at me, you know what I'm saying. So this was the third time he did that. So when he came onto the thing, he yelling, and I'm telling him, Luke, calm down, and I already knew.

I was like, Yo, you think I think you think that I initiated this conversation. I ain't had nothing to do with this conversation. This is something that they just did on they came up with on their own. And I was like, calm down before you say some stupid shit, and he was, you know, when somebody already turned up,

it's hard for them to calm down. So he kept yelling and yelling and yelling and yelling, and then I called him a bit, and that was that was the thing that I did that I gotta hold myself accountable. Do I regret it? I don't know if I don't know if regret it's the right word, but I don't. I'm not happy about saying that because I don't think he's a bit, you know what I mean. I don't think we should speak to each other that way, you know. But I do understand why I said. I understand why

I said it because it was just a reaction. It was a point that I got pushed you, and I feel like I gave a lot of warning points. I gave a lot of a lot of lead into it. And that's me knowing myself. If it gets to a point where I start getting upset, I'm gonna just react and then I'm gonna go outside of my body. I'm gonna go I'm a vibrate lower, I'm gonna start doing shit that's not really reflective of the way I want to eve off and I don't. I don't, I don't.

I don't feel good about it. I don't feel good about it, but I don't. I don't. I think I would regret it if um, if he hit apologize, then I definitely would apologize and then it would go down as a regret. But as of right now, you know, like the way that everything kind of got summed up, it it is what it is, but I don't feel good about it, no damn. And it turned into records were all actually going at it, the record with the record. When I did mind, it was still it was still

in the friendly competition category. But after I did mine, that's when he unfollowed me. That's when he stopped the podcast. So to me, that's an official fallout. So so to me, that's no longer a battle, that's just a fallout. And now I regret the song. That's why I never responded to what he did. Who you think was the battle? Just musically? Anybody can't he can have it, he can have it. I don't. I don't. You know it wasn't. I'm not. First of all, I don't think anybody. I

don't think anybody cares about um. It never was about who rap, who can rap better, who can win in the battle. It never really was about that man. It was just we sparked up conversation to have friendly conversation with a whole lot of different guys that speak to a whole lot of different audiences all together, so people can follow one clear, precise narrative, you know what I mean. Like, there was a point in my career where it was important to me to be the best lyricist. I've grown

from that, you know what I mean. So I mean I think, I think, especially when you're talking about somebody like Lou who's so much different from how I am, it's just gonna come down to preference, you know what I mean. I don't think what he what he did, it's him at his best, in my opinion, not from me as a fan, it's him at his best. It was it was just sound like a bunch of angry shit, a bunch of angry, scathing shit that he said because

he was mad. I heard that about both yal though I heard that about both the projects that both of the songs that No, it wasn't no venom in mind. No, I'm not talking about the people. Just was like, oh, this isn't either one of their best. But I think it's because of the expectation, because y'all are super lyricists, right, So you think in Loupay and Roy's at each other, you're about to hear some shit you ain't never heard before. No, it wasn't that kind of It wasn't that kind of um,

that kind of atmosphere. You know, It wasn't it wasn't planned for us to, you know, just go at each other like that. Everything just kind of happened spurred the moment I blamed the pandemic too, and the way to Mickey Facts come in Mickey Facts just kind of he just kind of inserted himself. He just kind of inserted

himself into it. And I think he just looked at it as an opportunity, opportunity to get in the mix because he was one of the he was one of the people that was that was involved in the combo that we were having, you know, but he was boosting it up like who would win between you and he was He was one of the people kind of talking

about it. Um. But after the Me and Luke thing happened, I think he looked at it as an opportunity to jump in there, because he jumped on the live stream with me, and he didn't he didn't like the fact that, um, he was trying to get me to call him a top tier lyricist and I was just telling him I don't. I don't view him as that, but I do think he's dope. And he thought, since we were in front of the audience, that I was trying to play him.

And then Joe came in and Joe Joe was kind of talking at him, you know what I'm saying, So he turned around and he did it, did his disc record and shit, And I think it was him and Lou were kind of like in cahoots with it, because Lou was kind of like, all right, now you do that. That mean now I don't have to I don't have to respond back and say nothing, you know what I mean,

I don't have to keep going back and forth. Because I think I think part of part of Lou felt like that I had planned this ship the whole time, you know what I mean, So he thought that I was gonna keep going. So that was one of the reasons why I made sure that I didn't respond, because I didn't want it to even seem like that I had even planned that, you know what I'm saying, Like,

I don't I don't want to. I don't want I don't want to put Lou in a position to where he viewed a certain way, you know what I mean. Like that ain't what I'm here to do, you know what I mean? So I just I just got it. I kind of had to let it go. The Mickey facts thing. People were like, Yo, you gotta respond to respond, And that's exactly why I didn't respond. I don't tell me I gotta respond. Shit, you know what I'm saying.

That's another thing, man. The fans or the followers or whatever you want to call them, they think they think we work for them, you know. They think we like you know, steph and fetch it and shit, like we just wrap. We just rapp when they say we should because they want to be entertained. And yo, that's cool too. We can rap competitively to entertain if that's what we agree to do, as long as we keep it respectful. But if it turns into a fallout and it turns

into real personal feelings. I'm not interested in that, man, I had enough of that in my career. Hip hop is exhausting. Yeah, and the male ego is so fragile, Like all of this stuff sound like it's this one phone conversation. You could like that so much it is? Yeah, I agree. Where where will we learn that communication from therapy? Name or rap? Name a rapper and therapy? Yeah, there ain't too many. It's more now, you know, it's so funny.

It's more the younger generation that's embracing it, then the older few people who probably really need to process some of that unhealed Trump. You know what, Loue Page, he's just too He's so smart. He's so smart. He's too smart for his own good. I think I don't think he needs therapy. He needs therapy, definitely needs therapy. But I mean, you know, dog out, I got mad, I got mad. Love for lout. But let's let's get back to it. They haven't experienced it's out this week. You

want to play what the time? Do you want to play what at the time? Yeah, let's play what at the time. Well, we appreciate you brothers. For joining us, Thank you for it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning,