Out Of Context: LL Cool J And Charlamagne Tha God

Get it.

Let's get it. LL cool J, my brother good. I want to set my intentions for this conversation before we get started. I want people to watch this conversation, and when it's over, I want them to say to themselves, damn objectively, regardless how they may feel personally, who's their personal favorites? Objectively, you can't have any top five greatest of all time discussions without mentioning LLL cool J.

Yo, I take it. I take that all day.

Man.

Can I argue with that?

And one of the reasons I say that is because you are by far hip hop's first major superstar. People could say you are a prototype for what became the formula for success in rap. You had the streets, you had the women, and you had songs for both of them. So with that said, why do you think L COOLJ isn't in those conversations?

I would say, you know, first of all, I feel like I First of all, let me just say I feel appreciated, and I feel respected and I feel loved. I think that you know, any in any art form, in any genre, you know ultimately you know there are different dynamics at work when people hear people like so you know, the Internet ushered in a different came in during a different era, so it documented things on a different level. So some people who weren't there to necessarily

Right.

So it's like, that's the whole point of me making new music, just to get out there, to let them see what it's like to have me on the court, so to speak. You know what I'm saying, to see me out there balling. And the difference is, you know, this isn't sports, this is art, and in art, you know it's about the mind, the soul, the emotions. You be connected to what you create. So you could do

At a high level.

So you know, we'll get to it, they'll learn most most.

Critics will consider it risky though, because of your icon status, to release a new album so long.

After your last one. What would you say, I'd say that's the whole point. Like, that's the fun part of it.

Right.

It's like, listen, there is no great artists, great athlete, or great any anybody that's great at anything if you cannot be great if you're not willing to be vulnerable. And this vulnerability comes from having the strength and the courage to go after what it is that you want and risk looking foolish in the process.

Lebron doesn't get the last shot.

Steph Curry doesn't take the last shot if he's worried about his legacy. Right, Kobe don't take the last shot if he's worried about his legacy. Lebron stops playing three four years ago if he's worried about his legacy. But because he wants to push the envelope. You're having a conversation. Look at what this guy can do in year twenty, Look what he can do in year five, Right, you see what I'm saying. So to me, it's like, that's the fun of it. Like I love that challenge. I

You know what I mean?

So, what is legacy the ll cool, Yo, I got it.

You know what's funny, man? You know.

Nobody gets a chance to come back and say, yo, correct my tombstone. You know what I mean?

Like yo, yo, yes, that that's not what I meant.

Naw. So it's like none of us really know what our legacy is because why do we know that? Because if you put a picture of a glass of water on the internet, they're gonna argue over that, right, And people rounded it. Oh, people used it to sustain life. People wanted plans with it, nine people. So I don't it doesn't matter. What matters is what you do in the moment. You know what I'm saying.

What are you doing in the moment right now with your life? You know what I'm saying.

So what I want to do is just maximize my potential. Then you let you let the world decide all that. There'll be generations after us that can have all them debates and all them conversations.

To pop your shit a little bit though, put out of doubt because you see the top five list and there's people that came after you. They'll put on the top five list and it's almost like you know, they're discrediting you. In a in a sense, So you gotta care about the recognition.

Well, I do care about the right. No, no, no, I definitely care about the recognition. No, no, absolutely, I just like, like, you know what you're saying. It's like sometimes you hear Floyd say, Yo, everybody's entitled to their opinion. That's really how I feel, like, I really don't care about that shit, man, Like, if that's what you like, that's what you like, baby,

At a ball with my thumb in my mouth and a blanky a long time ago if I was really worried about these lists and people's opinions, because nothing is ever gonna be perfect, you know what I mean.

So look, I think that history will shine kindly on me. You know that at the end of the day, like you gotta remember, like you're talking to look, death Jam had there was Death Jam Productions. The label was Party Times street Wise. They had a song by Tila Rock called It's Yours.

I bought that. I bought that song, that.

Song, I took it, wrote, made a demo centered into Rick Rubin, Me Russell and Rick. We ended up starting Death Jam, right. They they it was their label.

I was the flagship.

Artist, right, so everything that came after me, you know my first You know, you're talking to a guy whose first single drop to eighty four and people, and I'm still like relevant in the world globally.

I can't. I can't complain.

And if you think about everybody that came after Death Jam, out of death Jam on death Jam, like I mean, I basically ushered in the whole modern era of hip hop, right and grew up watching Flash and the Treacherous and the Crash Crew and the Feelers. Form was at those parts, like at their shows and seeing them and listening to the tapes and the blends and the mixes. So I've been a fan from day one and then helped usher in a new era as well, so I don't really

You know, I wanted to ask you about Death Jam too, because, as you just mentioned, you were a staple at Death Jam, and I would always thought they should have renegotiated your contract to make.

You more of an owner.

But I catalog.

Oh okay, okay, I.

Own my catalog.

When you see Mama Sitt knock you out in the movie, I licensed that, you know what I'm saying, like people, you know.

People, people are under depression. Oh boy, like listen man.

Because that was the time back in the day artists were getting gotten.

Nah, but see, not all artists. That speaks. That's not a broad general thing.

That speaks to certain executives taking advantage of certain people. One thing I can say about Russell and Leo. Look and Russell, he didn't make a bad deal early. And then Leo, he drives a hard bargain, but he'll give it to you when you earn it and knows I can't front on the guy. People can say what they want about him, but at the end of the day, I do own my catalog, and I do you know, you know, have a huge interest, you know in what

So it's like I can't complain with that.

The Kobe deal for you, Like, did they give you that because like, Okay, this was our franchise artist. This is the guy who put us on the map here to take all your masters and everything else.

Well, it wasn't really that.

It was I was at a point where I was my deal was up and we had you know, it was like we got to find a way to make it right, so and just our relationship and we just made a good deal and that was part of it. So you know, I'm I'm good, like you know what I mean, Like I really am in a good place in that way, you know what I'm saying. Not to mention all the other things that I do as well, so you know, I can't.

We're gonna get into that. Yeah, do you feel slightly that it took so long for them to put you in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

Not really, because I understand that a major part of my appeal, you know, especially in something especially on a commercial level, was geared towards women. It was black women, all women of all races, but it was a lot of black women, a lot of difference. And because of that, you know, you just got some dudes that you know, you know that ain't you know, they want you to you know, if you ain't burning the flag or you know, being a revel in a different way, they want to

They don't see the value in it.

Yeah, you got to really write I Need Love.

You have to really write around the way girl, Like, you really got to write these songs.

You got to write lounge. You got to write doing it.

You can't just you know, that doesn't just show up because you took your shirt off, like you you know, I take my shirt off. You know the song is bullshit When I took my shirt off like that. It doesn't work like that. Like, you actually have to write the songs, so you know what I mean. Like, so for some of them dudes in the Hall of Fact at that time, especially when you hear in retrospect, because that was an old regime. Remember that's not the new regime.

That's interesting. So you're saying that they probably didn't respect the art like they should have because of your sex simple status. Yes, that's crazy because you hear that conversation from women, you don't really hear that from a man's perspective.

Of course, it's real though, it's real. It's like you know there, you know, like it's just part of the game, right like at that time, Like in terms of those song you know what I'm saying, Like they want, you know, fight the power and only fight the power, you know what I mean respectfully, you know what I'm saying, Like they you know, just think about who got in and why with sex cells. Yeah, but that's not necessarily you know, let me let let's keep it.

Really, if if.

You got a dude that feels like he's living his life making a pinky promise, the last thing, the last thing he wants to do is put you know, the young bull and the you know on the frame.

That's fantastic.

Hey honey, Hey, hey honey, look at this guy. Let's uh, let's uh, let's keep him.

Out of the Yeah, yeah, let's start.

Uh yeah, let's not uh.

You know, man, does it feel well?

How?

I love that remix?

I'm grave. So you kept your shirt on mores when they a lot okay, been a.

Lot easier, bro like like shirts on and you know then you were not the women. It's like whatever, you know, It's like, you know, like showed up to a cocktail party with your tuxedo opened at a six pack with your shirt. It probably won't go over well with some parts of the crowd, but you embraced the door like who's he?

It is crazy, but you embraced the door like I always heard methhan Man say he shunned his sex symbol status.

Youmbracey, God damn right. Absolutely I loved it. Yeah why not? I ain't no shame of mine.

Listen, listen, man, When I grew up, you know, I grew up liking the girls, liking you know, you know.

I thought, you know, that was our goal as kids. You know, we wasn't like in it to.

Not have them.

Yeah, I wasn't to not have no, like you know, it wasn't like I was running around doing everything, but I definitely was looking and it was interested, you know what I mean.

So that's the way I.

Look at it, you know, I mean, you know, the feel strange that this generation may know you more from NCIS than your music.

Actually it's an amazing thing because it's like it just it's proof that you could do anything, that you can reinvent yourself on so many different levels. And you know, look, I got two crowds, man, I got two crowds when it comes to me, to my audience musically, It's the don't call it a comeback crowd who absolutely knows what I do, and it's the he raps crowd.

Right. I'm very aware of both of them.

I know when somebody's looking at me, they're like, oh, he raps it, you know, Oh he hosted, I like it shop with, I love it all. It's like, but music is my first love, you know what I'm saying, Music is my first love. But nah, that doesn't because look at the end of the day, saying when you hear artists like bitching and moaning and crying and complaining about generations.

Not knowing them It's like, man, make a rack it, you know, make some music.

Then you got a problem with people not knowing you for something, then do something about it.

Make some music. Wanna sit over your crown, ain't gotta know.

And you know, art, the arts are kind of there is a what have you done for me lately? Factor that always plays into art as it moves through the through through the continuum of time, you know what I'm saying. So there's gonna be certain generations that are not as aware if you're not current and if you don't put

On the map.

We just act like we don't see that, you know, asking where the weed at eliminating mids when the speakers.

Get the feedback, you know what I mean?

Like it's just like you gotta you just gotta step into the ship that you do.

Does that make sense?

Absolutely? You just answer one of my questions. And I was gonna ask you about you know something Mefi Man recently said after a performance at Summer Jam, and he said the generation gap was too wide for him, and I was gonna ask you, do you ever feel like you need to make you feel the need to make music to appeal to this generation.

No, because you have to. You have to make art that's true to you. Okay, you know it's true to you. I don't need like for those who understand the reference. I don't need the Golden Girls to be acting like Nicki Minaj.

You know, let's not do that.

Let's just not do that, you know, let's not go there with so ill don't need that. I don't need to get my little Uzi vert on and ship little yachty on for them.

You know, I gotta be me and they'll they'll find it.

You know what I'm saying.

Listen, at the end of the day, if I'm sixteen years old.

Or if I'm nineteen, or if I'm twenty, the only way, the only way you gonna get my attention is by the person playing some shit. And that shit is hot to me. None of that other shit matters.

The only the fuck what you did. I don't care how you did it.

I don't care what you started, what you didn't start with you, how you Is that shit hot? If it's hot to me, I'm good, I'm in. If it ain't, I'm not fucking with it. It's that simple, And that's that's that's life, you know what I'm saying. So a lot of these are like like meth like, you know, that's my man.

I love him. He's super nice. Is flow crazy?

My thing with him is is that I get what he's saying. It was it was the station's job to kind of think about that when they were curating it, so that it's seamless to help him out. You know what I'm saying. You gotta put the p you gotta line the.

Pieces up right. You know what I'm saying.

You gotta line them pieces up right because that audience could get into their music, but they have to It has to be sandwiched the right way and presented the right way to give the audience an opportunity to rack with them, because this shit is dope. If look if Mick Jagger can run around at eighty years old and have four generations in his show, like even me with my Force Tour, I'm running around. I got three four generations in the crowd. But those kids were introduced to

Whatever a time you were disheartened by the state of.

Hip hop, well yeah, I would say I would say there was a moment when I felt like right before I started rock the bells and really started, you know, like because people have to realize like this.

Whole time timeless resurgence that people are feeling.

You know, that's because I put it on my back with Rock the Bells and Rock the Bell's Radio and went out there and say, you know, I'm gonna throw festivals, I'm gonna do things. I'm gonna lift these acts up, and those who are open and allow themselves to receive the blessing will be lifted up.

Right.

So I felt like our music was, our culture was being commoditized, you know what I'm saying. I felt like, you know, if Mick Jackie can be respected, and if Bruce Springstein can be respected, then so can Rock Kim, and so can Chuck d and so can you know, countless others, Queen Las, you name them.

And so.

That was a moment. But I did something about it. See, I'm a big believer in you know, don't talk about it, be about it, mint and if you have an issue, if you got something that's a problem to you, address that shit.

You know what I'm saying.

Dudes, be you know, crying and bitching and morning then go home and sleep, you know, get high, smokes wig, cross the motor. Next day, get high again, cross the ball. It's like, Nah, if you got a problem, do something about it. So I did something about it, and I

That's your calling.

Let's ex found on that because I had a question about Rock the Bells. Man, when you look back at the version of yourself who recorded the song rock to Bells, and now you look at the man you are today and the Rock the Bells brand you created that you were just talking about the demand in that booth recording

Well, a few, a few times, a few things. It was a few things. First of all, you know they do back then. He just wanted some new sneak and some cars and you know, some jewelry I didn't want. I was very simple, pretty easy to you know, maybe a little red lobster.

Or something that was fine dining back in the day.

Though the finest, Yeah, it was the finest.

They might have been playing hockey with the steak in the kitchen, but we felt great about the ship, you know what I mean. But as far as uh, why that name, It started off with those guys who originally had the Rock the Bells festival. Originally they had they took my song. You know, a lot of things come for me, like Rock the Vote.

That was Rock the Bells. You know a lot of things come from.

So so they those guys they had Rock the.

Bells and then so that was cool. I didn't say nothing. I left alone.

And then then one day they caught me up and they offered me, you know, let's just let's just call it ten dollars for a show.

Let's just call it that.

I ape the perform in the show called Rock the Bells.

Yeah, and when they when that when that when when my team told me that I was looking at the phone, I said, I want my IP back. It just it fucked me up. It was like it just it rubbed me wrong, you know what I mean. So I just went and took the I P back.

You know what I'm saying. I said, yeah, let me get that, and then I said, you know what I mean?

Then I said, yo, let me you.

Know, motherfucking fucking out of here.

So, uh so I I took it back and then we started rolling with it. So that's really the real reason why it ended up being that. So it could have been any song, but that my inspiration came from that first first I felt like, yo.

Like listen, it's kind of like.

You know, like you know, people take kindness for weakness and sometimes they take leniency for stupidity.

I'm being lenient with you. So you think I'm stupid?

Yeah you know what I mean that they're gonna call you this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're really a sucker, Like you know, I kind of thought you were, but now yeah, let me call you in. So I was like, you know what, I took it back. So anyway, I say that to say, that's why it ended up being rocked the bells. But my desire to lift up those other artists and to see them respecting and elevated that came from me, you know what I'm saying, and lifting that up, And obviously the song was you know my shit, you know, So that's what it was.

It's impossible to talk about you as just the hip hop artists in regards the people who have helped the culture move forward because of all the success you've had, you know, in television and in film. So how important was your appearance and Crush Groove to your career launching to another level and taking hip hop to another level?

So Crush grew that the movie.

The film, it was about Russell's life and run Demse's life, and it was hugely important.

First of all, the only reason there was two things.

First of all, I overslept for my I Can't Live without my radio video because I was hanging out all night doing so I had a show. I had a show, so I didn't wake up in the morning, so Russell's screaming and all that, so the.

Video didn't happen. Then after that. I wasn't even supposed to be in that movie. In the in the movie Crush Crew, I was an extra.

I went down there, my man and Cornell may he rest in peace. You tell me yo, go down there every day, go down to the set. I'm like, you know what, Yeah, you're right, because I'm you know, I had left home when I was sixteen. I you know, my grandmother didn't understand me pursuing my music. I'm sleeping on the train. I'm like, you know, I got my green bags on the train.

I'm riding around trying to figure out what to do next.

Then I went and so I was going down to the set every day because I you know, it was either that or stay in the basement with a bunch of roaches. I was like, fuck it, let me go down there the set every day. So I was going down there this set, and one thing left led to another. I'm down there, you know what I'm saying, talking this and that, and then finally they gave me a little part. I was talking that shit and the rest is history.

When you think about movies and music, what's your favorite movie project of your career?

My favorite movie hum probably Into Deep in Deep Blue Sea.

Loved In Too Deep Classic, I told you that before. Yeah, God is very underrated black movie villain.

Oh yeah, he's like you know you talk about old dog Bishop, Oh God? To put God in that oh yeah he was, Yeah, it was it was real. Just everybody should check that one out Into Deep Yeah, it was crazy.

Now let's get into the album, Spirit of Cyrus.

Right.

The album's called Force, but the intro Spirit of Sirrus. First of all, you know you addressed police brutality out the Gate. Who is Cyrus and what inspired you to address the injustice cops display the black people right out the gate?

Okay, so the name of the album is the Force is an acronym, right, frequency is a real creative energy and Cyrus, you know, I mean people could go into history with it. But we were talking really about you know, the Warriors and Cyrus and this guy who was trying to bring all of these people together and see good things happen in his community, even though it was coming from him being a gang leader, him being all of these different things, and you know, he ended up going out.

Now, that was a metaphor for the guy that the.

Story was based on, because I was inspired to write the song based on a guy named Christopher Dorner. He was an LAPD cop who felt like he was being a pressed And the reason why I got into the song is because when I was doing NCIS it should be people at high levels of law enforcement. I had some friends at high levels because I did the show for so many years. This dude called me up. He's like, yo, el or Todd, Yo, what's up. Don't come outside. I'm like, don't come outside.

The fuck that I do? Right, I ain't do nothing. He's like, nah, you don't understand.

And he sent me a picture of Christopher Donna and when I saw it, and he said, look, they're looking to take this guy dead or alive, and it might not be alive, so don't.

Come out because you could be mistaken for him.

When I saw the picture, I realized how real that was, and so I went down the rabbit hole. And then I ended up writing a song because I knew that there were people that would relate to both sides of that story.

And I said, you know what, I'm going to write this song. And I was inspired.

Me and me and Tip, Me and Q Tip were in the studio and he had all of these wild synths and these this track that sounded crazy, and I just ended up writing that song and the rest is history.

But it's a it's a it's true.

It's based on a true event, and it was inspired by true events. And it was you know, a dude who just who had had enough and he exploded and you know, he was like addressing police brutality, blue on blue brutality, like all of it.

And so I wrote the.

Song, do you have anybody doing any pushback?

Like no?

Hell love? That might affect what you got going on in Holland would that might affect what you got going on in television?

You can't, you know, say that about the police. Well, I got to be true to the art on this one. It's not like I was condoning or pushing it away. I was just letting be in a channel to the art. You know what I'm saying. It doesn't invite, it doesn't incite a person one way or the other.

It's art. It's like a painting.

It's up to you to look at it and see or hear what you want to hear. You know, obviously, I you know, I played law enforcement for years. But I've also had bad experiences too as a kid growing up. So it's both right, So I think the song addresses both. And I think that you know, anybody that's honest and objective could just listen to it.

It is what it is, like, It's a song.

How much responsibility to do artists have the address social issues?

I don't think.

I don't think that's an artist is an artist is not. That's not a prerequisite. That's just like saying, you know, when when you know, when Michael Angelo sculpted David, did he have a response.

Ability to deal with men's health? You know what I mean?

Because they got to do neicked and do standing in neked like he's on. Michael Angelo has no addressment, Like you know, artists see what people fail to realize is creating art that is popular doesn't necessarily mean that you have evolved in other areas and are necessarily inspired or educated by or in terms of other areas. You know what I'm saying. So you gotta let an artist be

That doesn't work because that's not just either. You know what I'm saying. You gotta let people be who they are. You know.

You know that's like you know, like saying, like you know, you can't put red in your hair because.

You have people that are triggered by red.

You can't really live your life like that, you know what I mean?

Son?

I think artists do should do what they really feel for real, like but what they really feel like This album is what I really feel like. I wasn't trying to go commercial. I'm not trying to like this ship is you know what I wanted what I felt inspired to make, you know.

A Saturday Night Special to record with Ross and Fat Joe. It sounds like you were dressing people's egos.

I want I want to know what's the.

Lesson to be learned in those verses, and did you have particular people in mind when you were writing those raps?

Well if the songs, well, look, the the verses for me were definitely archetypes. And you know, you do have the dude who's uh, who's greedy and extra sensitive and pretends not to be offended when he really is, and you have to watch out for that when you're growing up or when you're in a boardroom, or when you're trying to you know, pass the ball when you you know, in law school or whatever it is you pledging. It

You know what I'm saying.

I chose to give you the lessons that are to be learned from those characters.

And that's kind of what the song is. I like Black Hold a Lot, Thank you. I think you should put that out on June teenth. But you know on Black Hole you said the only crossover you respect is Kyrie. Yeah, what would you say to people who said you crossed over them?

I would say they're right, and I would say it happened, but it was never intentional.

It was organic. It was organic. You know what I'm saying.

It's like kind of like and the reason like you look at a Kyrie, or you look at a Jordan, or you look at a Lebron. They did cross over, but they crossed over doing what they love. They crossed over doing what's true to them. They didn't pretend to be somebody else. You know what I'm saying they didn't come, and you know, Magic didn't come and painted like he was Loarry Bird and shit to crossover, it's like he

And I also liked the song black Hole just because it's so black. But I remember I saw you on the shop and you were saying, you know, one of the reasons you reached out to the Q tip because you're working on the album with Dre. You reached out the Q tip because you said you really wanted like a black, black Black and the black black album. So it made me wonder, like, what wasn't Dre giving you in terms of Blackness.

Oh no, no, no, Dre gave me everything. What it was was my songwriting wasn't up to Paul when I was working with Dre.

Dre gave me some.

Dre gave me some tracks and some so we got so we got like forty joints.

It's just my writing.

I didn't feel like my writing was meeting Dre where it needed to be, and so before even though I did call Tip and got with him, in between that time, I was back in the gym working on my jump shot. Okay, I was working on my pen game. I was looking analyzing my writing. I had to learn how to rap again. I had to learn how to rap again. Wow, you know what I'm saying. I had to because remember the

And once I worked on that in a real serious.

Way, then I got with Tip and the rest is history, and we made this amazing body of work that I feel really good about.

So when you revisited to doctor.

Dre, one hundred percent trade my man's you know, he FaceTime me the other day. Man, absolutely, one hundred percent. I just I just wasn't ready. You know what I'm saying. He he always that's my men. You know what I'm saying, Like he always delivers. It's just I'm not gonna put him in a position, you know what I'm saying where I'm not all the way there and I'm not giving him the best. I'm not taking full advantage of our creative relationship, you know what I mean.

I value our creative relationship.

Too much for me to be writing some some some lame shit, some ship that I think is lame and it's not meeting you know what I mean.

How do you get to that level of self awareness, the way you can look at your wraps and be like, yo, this ship is wack.

Man.

I can't see too many people doing that.

Yeah, you got a lot of people walking out the house and outfits when they need to be doing that ship. You know what I'm saying, Like, Yo, you gotta like, honey, you see that ship right, Like like people like your dude walking out he got the camel toe and shit like you know, the fucking moose knuckle.

It's like, oh, loose some JESU bro saw yourself you left?

Yeah, before I left the house, I was like, yo, ma, this is some moose knuckle shit. Let me you know this is looking crazy. I'm bending over like my pants are ripped.

And anybody that tells you are you just can hear it yourself.

You gotta listen to it. You gotta be honest.

See, I make two types of projects, you know what I'm saying. Like I said before, I make shit in a vacuum where I'm just kind of experimenting for.

Me, and I make cultural albums. I was looking to make a cultural album. I wasn't.

I didn't want to get with Dre and do my experimental thing, because my experimental thing is never the records that are appreciated by the culture. They're never the ones that are asked, but they as an artist. They make me feel good. So it's really a little weird thing I do. And most of the time that's why after I do a really really great album, I go do some weird shit and that's how I work. That being said, I wanted to make a cultural album this time, so I had to be writing.

You got a song called thirty Decemblers. You know, most people talk about how many summers they got. You said you had thirty Decembers.

Yeah, because I was away a long time. I was away from New York a long time, and I went back during the pandemic. Right. I put the black mask on, I got the hoodie on, I got the shades on, I got tyms all black. I'm running around like probably look like a stick up kid or something, right, Like, they don't know what's going on. But I got to go everywhere. I was all in the projects. I was up in the pink houses. I was places they didn't

And I filmed that.

I documented on the ground and I got inspired. So I wrote thirty Decembers, you know, being on the subway and everything I said in the song, like, you know what I'm saying. The lady sitting next to me don't want to move her stuff. She don't want to let me sit down, afraid of how I get down. Ain't dealing with that shit, now, you know what I mean?

Right So so thirty symbol symbolizes the screets in New York City and how.

Long it it been since I really was home for real, not visiting the city, not visiting the city in the suv, not visiting the city and saying, Yo, I'm from here.

No, that ain't what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about really, when's the last time you really sat on the fucking council?

Was like this shit smell funny, you know what I mean? Like this smelled funny in this motherfucker.

Or when you walk in the hallway and there's so many people cooking in the projects, the fucking hallway smells like God damn tie Italian Irish soul. Fucking your nose is exploding with the fucking all these smells because it's all this hooded that.

Type of shit.

Yeah, I don't think people are aware, especially I know this generation not, and probably just a lot of people in the industry. On you came up in a time in NYC where rappers was running with real people. Let's just leave it at that, real real the hustles, yeah, the killings, everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What did you take from your time spent on blocks and eat flash flat Bush with hustlers like George Chang?

Oh man, you know about George Wow stretch my man stretched from Brooklyn.

May he rest in peace. It's so funny. Man.

I used to go out to Brooklyn with with Stretch all the time. He had his Goal one ninety evens and like even when I had Rock the Bells. I remember I was playing Rock the Bells for a bit of car time. Du was like, we pulled up on this trew. He's like, yo, it's my man l He wanted to know if you think he should make this a record.

He played it for him.

He was like, yo, shit is hot.

So me and Stress were real cool.

I really hung a lot with with A Z and Rich and I'll poll with those guys because of my man Chuck. You know, I used to go uptown, so I used to be on one three two all the time. And so those are the guys like the paid in Full movie, like like like the Paid in Full movie guys were my real friends. And I was with him every day. So when I did like walking with a Panther and you know with the jewelry with the diamonds and all that shit, like that's why I was with

Don't try to be a tough guy.

Like that tough guy shit don't really fly because somebody's gonna test that shit all day long. You're much better off just having manners. I didn't say be soft. I didn't say don't defend yourself. I didn't say don't do what you got to do if there's a problem. I said, don't try to be a tough guy, you know what I'm saying. So that was the thing, like just understanding that. And you know, those guys being you know, maybe two three years older than me, four years older than were just old.

Enough to kind of mentor me.

So it's like you know, coming out of queens, like from age you know, late like sixteen seventeen, like seventeen early maybe late sixteen, early seventeen, all the way to like early you know, twenties or whatever. I was hanging around for as long as they were around. I was hanging with these guys and learning the ins and outs

People, how to respect people so that you if you see.

Them again, it's not a problem. You know what I'm saying, because you got to see people again. Man, old woman, you gonna see them again.

You know what I mean.

Absolutely.

You know the girl would be walking past you while you get your ass whip or getting pistolhipped about. That's right, you know, catch one of them, man, you know, so you you know what I mean, so you learn.

You know what I mean.

You're answered a lot of questions before you asking, because I was gonna ask you. Like you know, you see a lot of people in hip hop get caught up being too close to individuals in the street. And I was watching the Supreme Team doc and you were.

In the crowd. Oh get that fat Cat Birthday part.

Supreaming them as moment listen, listen, just black justice men.

You know what I'm saying. Bimmy's my men. I was running with them because they were closer in age. And then prem I knew you know, you know that that crew like a lot of them.

I knew they were a little older, but I knew them.

So how'd you end up not getting caught up in that like like say a IRV did not you know, not throwing them under the bus.

But just nah, nah, I get it because you know why, because I was around enough hustlers my whole life.

To to know that the shit ain't cute, you know what I mean. See, let me tell you that, like.

Dudes that are insecure, that becomes like a like a like a like a like a security blanket form, you know what I mean. If you really understand life and you're around enough people, you understand that you need to just that's not you don't need to be seen in that light. It's not necessary because I really was around it, Like so I don't have to inject I don't have to make that part of the loll cruise ain't narrative because I really did. I was really there, like for real,

You know, you know that kind of ship.

Yeah, you ever thought about telling those stories like in a movie or I mean I would do a movie.

I thought about the people asked me that kind of stuff. I would you know what I'm saying.

When I hear those stories, they sound unbelievable about the teams.

Like what yeah, yeah, nah, yeah, yeah, you know yo, I'm listening back. You know, you know two schools of thought.

There's the guys that really, I want to be cut from that cloth, you see me as that, And there's the guys like, I'm gonna lay that over there because you know, I really smelled them candles, you know what I mean, like them candles was? I smelled them for real? So I don't need to be you know what I mean.

I'm good.

I'm good.

Nothing to prove.

Another record off the album hewe and the chall Yeah again, you're taking a revolutionary tone. So it made me think, would you have rapped like that throughout your career if it was more I guess profitable.

I didn't even take profits in the consideration. See, there's a time to create art and as a time for commercial consideration. If you painting them Ona Lisa, you don't paint it, you know, thinking that you know, I don't know something's gonna be trendy one day.

You just painted. I just I didn't. I don't take that in consideration with this album. I wrote a record from the heart that I think people of all.

Colors, ethnicities, cultures will be able to respect because it's really coming from my experience of what I've seen or what I've witnessed, or what I've envisioned it have it came to me.

Whatever I was inspired to write, it's real.

So it's not trying. I'm not trying to be commercial. I wanted to make something that could touch the world in a way that is real from a hip hop standpoint. So you know, I respected his stance. I respected, you know, my aunt And this is an interesting thing and I didn't know this when I did my DNA and at Harvard and they did all this stuff and she's still alive when we've talked. My aunt Joan, you know who I got reconnected with later in life. She was the first female black panther.

Really.

Yeah, my aunt Joan, Yeah, my aunt Joe from Oakland. She's from Oakland, Joan Lewis. My uncle was John Henry Lewis. He's a light heavyweight champion. He's in the Boxing Hall of Fame. He's first African American light heavyweight champ. But that whole side of my family has some very interesting people in me. She plays a violin. She you know, she's dope. And that that was, you know, something I learned and discovered. I thought that was quite fascinating, the

Was came from my heart and soul. It's never to exclude anybody. I don't.

I'm not even that. I'm not even built like that. I like everybody like I like people. I'm weird, like I don't have like all of them. You know, I don't judge people. I'm not judgmental. I don't, but I like so, I just wrote something that I thought people would find fascinating.

But it clearly as a black man, that's always been in you. You talk about your you know aunt, who was the first black panther, So it's in your DNA. So when you used to hear Chuck d Rapp back in the day, did you have any of those that you did but maybe never put out?

I did? I did? I did?

I did?

You know?

I think I think creative courage it takes time to get to that place.

You know, when you have choices, and.

You know, quite frankly, you know, you know when you raised to be polite and when you raised with a certain type of manners, there's certain things you just don't say because you don't want to ruffle feathers. And I think that's a natural thing. Though that's not always about That's about how you're brought up. That's about upbringing. That's not really about like even commercial stuff. That's about upbringing. Like you look at Pocket, it's his upbringing that fuel

Working a thousand jobs, washing.

Your arms up to your elbows when you come in all that, you know, fixing your own car and shit. And then my grandmother from down south, so I was raised with that Southern Caribbean vibe in my house.

So that just wasn't what we talked about. So I didn't. I wasn't as a kid coming up, That's not what I wrote about.

But as you evolving, as you grow as a human being, and as you discover new things and new ship talk about it.

Do you have a lot of unreleased music that you recorded in like, you know, your early years, and so why not? Why not put it up?

I don't.

I think I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But you know they'll have plenty of time to do all that, right, I don't.

It's not for me here.

You wait till you leave. Yeah, hell yeah. They hear that old ship, all that old ship. Yeah, I got the new old ship coming out. Wanna hear that old ship?

Man?

Trying to make some new ship. Let's get it popping, baby, what's happening man? Wanna hear that old ship?

Man?

I don't even care about that ship.

Yeah.

Whatever.

These dudes, you know, like run around and you know there's dudes right now. I think they're gonna get away with the pro tools and all that. No, you're not mistake, gonna wear your ass out, man. Yeah, we come to get all that. I know you think you got it, you think you slick. You know, a couple of dudes put some sit up on its. I'm gonna tighten you up too. I got something for your ass too. You know, I know you think I forgot.

You know, I think about I was talking about you in regard the Drake right because the way Drake doesn't back down from a rap challenge reminds me of ll couj because Drake makes the record for the ladies, but he's also not afraid to mix it up as an MC. And you had a lot of those back in the day. You had Ice Tea, you had Hamm, a cool modd. You know, you got it all of them onto the

Man, Me and Ice Man, Me and Ice are cool man, you know what I'm saying.

We bumped at each other, you know, talked a little talk and went back and forth for the low of this and that, but we cool like like I respect Ice like I really do. Ice is a you know what I'm saying. He's a smart dude. He's very clever, very smart. Like, you know what I'm saying. Like, listen, man, I had all kinds of runnings with all kinds of

So me and Ice we ironed that out. Man. It wasn't no you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, that's funny though you brought that shit.

I know, because I just always wonder how cool it heads prevailed. As you said, you you are a real figure who ran with real figures. Yeah, Ice Tea's a real figure who ran with real figures. But it never got to that.

Level of yeah yeah, well I'll tell you why, because.

You know, I've always been a guy that look to avoid problems because I know problems become real problems. And I know how I am, you know what I mean, Like, I don't look for problems, Bro, I don't you know what I'm saying, Like, I'm just really not built like that. I don't want the problems because I'm not fucked and playing with you, you know what I mean, Like, I don't so I don't want no problems.

You know what I say.

I'm saying I'd rather us be friends. You know what I mean, because you have to look at me. You gotta look at my career.

Bro.

If I put all my energy into a problem, do you know how crazy it would be? This world would be different if I was fucking on the other side of the fence, the whole world. So it's like, I don't even want to go there. You know what I'm saying. I want to keep things positive energy, no problem, no tough fake tough guy bullshit.

Respect dudes. Give them love, give them on a see them, give them a.

Dap, respect them behind their backs, respect them too, not just in their face.

You know what I'm saying. And just keep it dead, you know what I'm saying. And it works for me.

That's why I have a lot of friends and a lot of respect in the game. And there's very few people. There's only a few people that you know aren't in love with me, and I understand why. And you know, these things happen, you know what I'm saying.

But I got good.

Relationships because of that, So I'd rather keep it dead with it, you know what I'm saying.

You say the rappers of the day, you know about the pitfalls of just beef and hip hop now now that times have.

Changed, But I would say that, you know, I would say that when it's really when it's really just about the music and the bars, like, don't take it so personal, be like, why the fuck are you so butt hurt like that you want to like, you know, kill everything moving because somebody assaulted you on the way. I do get it, but you gotta control that, you know what I'm saying. It's not like you can't really judge them because I've been there, I know it. It could be upsetting.

You want to fight?

You know, or she might go you'd be like, yo, this is you know, and she kind kind of gives you the you know, you see that that little you know that you see her mouth do this ship that little shit You're like, now you gotta you know, like you know, you made Drake that not like us. Shit, that's torture for a buffer said little kids, saying that's you know, that's just bananas. Absolutely, you'd be fine, bro, you know what I mean, don't even trip. So my

Jay Z once battled in a parking lot in Manhattan and you wrapped a verse from Funkadelic Relic and him and his team laughed at you.

Okay, let's let's let's talk about it what it really is.

First of all, it wasn't a I didn't rap a verse from Funkadelic Relic.

Okay, that's the first fucking thing that the story it's bullshit, Okay, it's not true.

What did happen though, is you know, I see you know, see guy you know Ei the club and then trying to you know, flash money to get my attention, and I'm looking okay, and then this man's sauce came up to me and was rapping. So I had a couple of rhymes. Remember I'm albums in there. You know these are guys that ain't had that deal. So when I have a deal, I had a suitcase and rhymes. Now I'm albums in saw I said some rhymes. I said a couple of rhymes. Then I said a little bit

You know what I'm saying.

If I was, you know, I'm not exactly like you know, the first rapper that you really want to get into that ship? You know what I'm saying, Like I wasn't. I wasn't like, so, yes, did I run out of rhymes? Was I finished rapping?

A fucking ltely? Was it was? I?

Was it his?

Was it their peanut Gallery? Absolutely? But do you really want to get into some some of that kind of shit with LLLL like you really want that? You know what I'm saying, Like, do do dudes really want the problems?

Or is it just a nice story to have?

It's like it's like you know, it's like like like like Floyd taking off the gloves, stepping out the ring and you shadow boxing in front of him, and I caught you.

It's like, okay, okay, yeah you caught me.

Yo, y'all caught me.

Yeah, So you saw there was just one of those things. You just weren't as prepared as you.

I wasn't prepared. I ran out of rhymes. They run up this morn You know, he been rapping on the corner for ten years.

He got fucking a thousand rhymes. I ain't got none. I'm out of rhymes. He raps.

Okay, congrats, you got that one. You got that one.

But you know, if I was you, I just baked that one and just leave it at that, you know what I mean? Don't like drop nothing?

Is that Where the whole jay Z and llll COO J got problems came from?

I don't know. I couldn't even tell you, bro.

There was another rumor that the song Lounging, Your song Lounging was about Hole. I mean because at the time he was known for the Lexus and you was looking at me. He was known for the Lexus and he got.

Stocking fucking Lexus, I can't rap about a Lexus.

My nigga got stocking Lexus. Hey, I can't mention it Lexuss. Fuck, let's go on. What are we doing here? Like how personally are.

We gonna take this ship?

Bro?

Like?

But with any of those balls about.

Jay No, Like look, okay, So I'll tell you to you like this, if a dude makes a song, right, and I make a contrary a contrasting idea about a similar like in other words, if you say, yo, yo baby, I'm coming upstairs to see you, right, and then I'm like, yo, if I if I said something like if that inspired me, right, and I'm like, you know what, let him come upstairs, I'm gonna going around the side or some shit like that.

That's not a disrespect bro.

Had you had a song, it had some cool ideas, and it I just as an artist, was inspired and made some contrasting you know, a contrasting statement about what you were kind of saying in a contra like the contrast of it. It wasn't like I don't even know you, don't I don't know you from a hole in the wall, like at all. I have not like what what could I possibly want from him in nineties, Like, let's think about Night ninety six.

What do I want with him?

Yeah, he's brand new?

What could I possibly want? And so all I did was there were songs out.

I've made some contrasting statements based.

On his song and my song like that. There wasn't no disrespect. But again that goes back to that sensitivity. Be dudes, be sensitive.

Man. It's like, dude, like, don't assume the worst? Why are you assuming the worst? Why not assume the best? Why not say yo, yo, let's fuck with something like why does it have to be I'm dissing you? Like I wasn't dissing that, man. I hain't no reason to dism like for what. Even to today, I don't want to disshome for what. I don't want nothing from him, I don't need nothing from him. I'm not looking for nothing.

But I don't have any problems.

Like you know, there is that infamous picure of you at the awards. You're looking at him when you sizing them up, like yo, I got the rhymes right now now.

Now, what it probably is is he was looking at that like at me like that when they caught the shot. You know, that's like that's like the teacher I got you last. It's like a motherfucker look at you, and then you look at him, and then the teacher get out of my classroom. You know, it's like I just got the I got caught.

You know.

You know Pick, I'm talking know exactly what you're talking about. Do you remember what you were thinking about in that moment exactly? Yeah, I was probably thinking small fucking get on my nerves. He's looking at me all crazy, but some shit like that, smart fucking get on my nerves. Man, we get a smart fucking and then like a friendly competition, because you know, I even think about it had to be kind of difficult when he became president of the Death Jam because now he's.

Wasn't difficult at all. We had a meeting, wasn't difficult. Only thing difficult is or promote my ship. I don't get like, you know, people funny with that, because like you have people that all say, like, yo, hell, that's crazy when they gave this guy a job. But first of all, I don't like talking about people like this. This is ridiculous, But I just do it because everybody's going to be already around. We already viral any fucking

No, I didn't want a job fucking mc fuck. I ain't a couple of people, Yo Russell, give me a job.

That's not what I was in it for.

So No, I didn't and I didn't have begrudge him. He had. People have different things that they want to accomplish. I celebrate that.

I'm happy for him, like seriously, sincerely, Like I'm happy for homie, Like I'm happy that he's doing what he's doing.

I'm happy that. Like, even when that happened, I.

Didn't have any issue because I had no reason to think that it would be anything negative. And if anything, you have somebody that understands what you do and what you go through as an artist who's been through some things. So nah, I didn't feel no kind of way. You know, we met and stuff. I don't really know what that dynamic is about. I really don't like I really don't know what it's about.

When y'all meant to talk about, you know, the album or whatever, did y'all have good conversations, y'all bring all of this to the forefront.

Yea, it was not. We didn't we never you know, sometimes you're right. Sometimes you got to give the elephant rooms some peanuts.

You know what I'm saying. We didn't really address it. No, we didn't. We didn't. We didn't really address it.

But I can tell you this, I sincerely I like his music. I don't have no issues with them. You know what I'm saying, Like it is what it is. You know what I'm saying, Like I'm not. I'm not you know, you know I'm I'm I'm in LL mode.

Man. Think about LL cool J.

When I look at y'all and hip hop, I look at you as Magic Johnson, I look at I look at him as Michael Jordan. But you don't get no Jordan without Magic.

I mean that's one way of looking at them.

Like Magic is literally the top five of all time easily.

You know maybe you know maybe, but you know, I guess the move. The movie credits ain't roll yet, so we got to see how that how it works out? Yeah?

You know what I mean?

Would you be open to a friendly a friendly spar what kind of lyrical lyrical damn l lyrics?

Did I get excited? Like?

What was far you're talking about?

Cause you know you remember at the Hall of Fame. I don't know what it was, the Hall of Fame of the seventy Maybe was just when they did the seventy five NBA inductions and Jordan saw Magic. You're like, I crossed you up.

We can get at it right now, yo, listen man, Yeah, I mean, you know, hey, I'm bad. You want to know Broka, you know what I'm saying, Like, okay, okay, you know I wouldn't you know, I would say, let's just all stay focused.

You know they don't know. Let's just stay focused, baby, don't get distracted.

You're getting it now. Just leave it alone, just win, Just.

Do your thing, you know what I'm saying.

Whatever whatever happened to the e love the brother that carried your radio now ear was he's in I think he's in Cali.

You know what I'm saying. I'm not sure what he's doing. We talk occasionally. I had him at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That was a good vibe, you know what I'm saying. So you know, good ship.

He was a public enemy logo, right, absolutely, yeah, yeah.

He loved my hype man. That's the public enemy logo. He had had the the bullseye on him and all at the school. Yeah, that's funny, right, A lot of history.

Bro, correct me if I'm wrong on this too, because you and DJ Scratch y'all made a classic record and go and the Goat album.

We did most he did most of the gold. He did most of a lot of it. Yeah, a lot, not all of it, a lot of it.

Why haven't y'all connected more on production?

Just just time and and going through things like that whole acronym. Like first of all, like I didn't even know when I you know, when we came, when I came with that, with that album, that it was going to turn the Goat into everything it became then, Like most people don't even know I came up with that ship. That's crazy, Like most people do not even know. Yo, this guy really came up with the Goat, that whole concept of being the Goat and went every area of culture.

And you often get left out of conversations for an acronym that you created.

Right, But I'm in it if they use an acronym, yeah right, like like so every time you see somebody use that goat the emoji, or they called Tom Brady the gold, or they called Jordan the gold, or they call Floyd or Ali or whoever the goat, I'm right there, which is crazy for me because I know I created it. So it's like I'm looking at it like, oh shit, man, there's another one. Oh Michael Phelps' is a goat. Oh okay, well done, young man.

You know I got a few more questions I was reading, WILLI Smith's book, and he talks about going broke after having success in music early on. Did you ever have any of those issues.

I've had moments in my life where you know, I taxes or had to do things, but no, I've never been in that position. I also, you know, I'm a big believe I paid my tithes, you know what I'm saying. So, you know, whatever I get, I get ten percent of God. You know what I'm saying.

You know, I you know, I lived my life kind of based on certain codes. I'm not.

You know, I've never been big on either overspending or oversaving. I just kind of let my life flow.

That's why.

You know.

I can get whatever I want whenever I want it, and I'm pretty good.

I'm good with that, actually, very good with that. Yeah, you know, so I'm cool.

Who taught you the business? If anybody.

Trial and error or trialing ever? You know, man like you learned like you just learned to like. I remember one time I gave my mother eight thousand dollars to hold for me, and then I got a check for fifty grand or something like that.

It was a little I was a little kid. I was maybe sixteen seventeen sixteen something like that.

And I remember Dan even wrapping that long. Oh yeah, you wrap money for that long?

Yeah, yeah, No, No, it's crazy because I've been a fan since eight nine. I started writing at eleven or twelve. I've been doing this my whole life, right for real. So and I watched that fifty grand God and that eight just stayed there.

I was like, Okay, let's see how this shit goes. Like I learned that right there.

You just want to save money, save enough always, you know, get to make sure you can.

You know, you know, you got you know what I mean, Stucky.

Who are the people in your life that just kept you stables as a human because, like you said, you started when you were sixteen years old, so you had the industry, you had the streets, like, you had every single pitfall that could have happened in front of you. But your grew to still be the man that we see in today.

And you know, my mother, you know, like my mother would get me, like she give me a book with a whole bunch of drug addicts and it with heroin addicts, fingers all hands, all blown up sauce. She'd be like, Tod, look at this and I'll be looking at it. She'd be like, you know people that do that, they don't have long careers. I'm like, oh, that messed my career. Interesting, you know what I mean. And then my grandmother, you know what I'm saying, because it was like initially, you know,

So it was like you just learned to like watch your step, you know what I'm saying.

And you know, like.

I always like I tell you man, like like I remember one time I was talking to my man, right and we was talking about hustling. He was like, well, why don'd you come hustle with me?

You know what I'm saying.

And this is before I went up town and everything, And I was like, nah, I don't want to do it. He's like why, I said, because I want to be the best. So he said, so what's the problem. I said, well, not to kill people. So that's the like. So in other words, what I'm saying is when you think about things, when you do things, you have to think about things.

I never did because of that.

I've tried everything, I've tried shit, but I'm never That's why I don't like that feeling.

You know what, I'm saying, I like to have my wits about me.

So that's been your key to aging gracefully in the industry, because you know, a lot of the icons we grew to knowing love they not landing with their planes with the wheels out, you know what I mean, a lot of them planes landing in the wheels not coming out.

Motherfucker. Yeah, the motherfucker's landing on flat time exactly. Roller skate one, roller.

Skate on the seven forty seventh yo. Yeah, just not getting high and all that. Man, Like, take care of yourself, beat. I like to get in the gym, workout train, you know what I'm saying. I like to read this shit, you know what I mean, Like, I don't be sitting around high on motherfucking day.

Man, Like, what are we doing?

Man?

What's that about?

For me? I'm not Look, people could do what they want and I got homies that do that and it's all good.

I ain't got no problem with it.

You know, that's you, you know, But no, you know, like I said, you know, we're seeing a lot of people fall from grace, you know, for things that they did decades ago. Do you think that you know, landing with your wheels out has to be a decision and a mindset that you got to be committed to from day one.

Well, you got to put yourself in the best position to do that right.

Sometimes you can get lucky, sometimes things just work out, but you know it's better to be you know, prepared to land is plan your landing and then if.

You got to switch it up, you switch it up.

You know.

It's like it's a saying, right, all plans are useless, but planning is essential, you know what I'm saying. So it's like, if you got a plan, it ain't gonna go as planned. But if you got a plan, then you got a place to pivot from, you know what I mean. It's like having a map. If you got a map, you know, and your plan is to go that way, even if you got to switch, you got a map.

So you can go that way.

Makes sense? That makes sense. You know. Last year was the fiftieth anniversary of hip hop. This year is the fortieth anniversary of Death Jam and.

Me right the first artist.

So you know, with all the controversies surrounding Russell Simmons, does that impact how these things can be properly celebrated? How these stories can be properly told.

I don't think so, because I don't think one thing has nothing to do with the other one. You know, if we found out that Galileo was doing some crazy shit, should we do away with astronomy and telescopes and shit? Like, if we found out that, I don't know.

You name it, you still got to tell the story.

I mean like it's just like like like it's really kind of like people like. Look, first of all, I don't like to judge people because I wasn't there.

That's the first thing. I also don't be little.

I don't try to never make light of anything that anybody's been through in terms of victims that I'm not with that either.

I don't play the games.

What I will say is, you're living in let's say, whoever, you're living in an apartment building and you found out that the builder of that apartment building had did some really really bad things. Should you break your lease and move out? Should we demolish that building and redo it? Have somebody a perfect hand building.

I don't know.

I don't even know the answer, But what I say to people is you got to look at these.

Things when you think about stuff. One thing is one thing, this is another, you know what I mean.

And even if you remove the person out of the building, you still have to tell the story of the person building that building.

But you still tell the story of the building. So it's like, yeah, let's take history, world history for example. It's probably been a couple of people that have done some good things and bad things. So do we eliminate all of the good because of the bad? Do we throw away the good because of the bad deed?

That's the question.

We live in a country that was built on bad deed, I'm.

Saying, so do we like like like, like are you are you prepared to give up your passport because of what was done to the indigenous people in this country? Right like this, you gotta look, you gotta be real and I'm not and it ain't none of it good. Like I'm not saying don't make light of it by no means, I'm not on that bullshit, But I'm just saying, like, we gotta be realistic.

Man, the dude built you know, he put together this company.

He did so even if he's not celebrated, you still got to tell.

You, yeah, you may not celebrate his actions in that particular area. But you can't say that he didn't do something right, right. I'm just saying like, it's no way around that, because if not, we have to erase all of world's history because to find a perfect person that did good things and nothing bad? Does that even exist? Does it exist in your household? What was grandma doing? Was grandma freaking off? Was grandma freaking off?

Speak?

Should we never did grandma illegally take money and do the nasty nasty and take some money back in the sixties, and now she making Thanksgiving? And we are we fouled for eating this stuff? And right now because Grandma shot bucking the ass with the twenty two round the corner. I don't know.

I'm sure those conversations that came up for you though, right like people have asked like are you gonna have him here?

No, Honestly, nobody is really asked, And I'm glad you did ask because I just think that none of us are perfect, right, and none of us should make light of any victim and anything they go through.

Ever, we have to look at the world and things on a case by case.

Basis, because if you're not gonna look at it on a case ba case by case basis.

I don't know what we're gonna do because nobody gonna do shit.

Because if everybody had a goddamn you know, a Wikipedia on a TV screen above their head with all of the foul shit they did, we'd be walking around this motherfucker. Man, Man, Man, what what?

I wouldn't hurt a fly?

Yeah, I know you wouldn't, but you out there chopping chickens heads off every five minutes. I wouldn't hurt a fly. Yeah.

I know you're telling the truth.

But I'll kill a chicken. I'll kill a chicken, you know what I mean? Like everybody like people, you know people. Nobody's perfect with that stuff. Man.

So that's the way I look at it. Man, you know what I Man?

Did you feel away when President Biden got your name wrong at the CBC conference? He called you l J cool Jay? Then he referred to you as a boy before correcting himself and saying, man, did you get nah?

I mean, you know what else supposed to do?

Man?

Like I'm a mine?

Man, God, drmit, you know like I was supposed to do due eighty years olds live man, listen, I got ship to do. Man, The last thing I got to work. Let me let me tell you something. When you at the point where the president messing up your name is a national story, she was a bad motherfucker.

You're a bad motherfucker.

At that point, Yo, when the president messing up your name is national news.

He did something right.

So I'm going I'm gonna just be like, I'm just gonna, you know, wish them all the best, bro, I wish them good health.

And that's it. Man.

I can't you ever been approached by doing the chapstick line.

Well, I met with them a long time ago, but you know, you know, I think you know a lot of Melani man.

I'm not sure. I'm not.

That's a lot of Melani man, A lot of Melanin on them lips, man, that sits like hoof, you know, a little Bonnie Man, get a low.

To ll and all that that shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Hell. That's why I want you back, because I'm saying back then, you know, yeah, That's.

Why I want people to listen to the new album because you know, even with all the success you've had, there's still a lot of doors that have been closed to you because of your black well.

I mean, listen, but there's a lot of doors that opened, right. See, life is we know what we're dealing with in the world in America.

But you can't. I can't allow myself to get kind of caught up in that shit. You know what I'm saying. We know what's true. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

But my thing is.

When the elevated doors close, take the steps, you know what I'm saying.

Like, I'm not tripping off of that.

Like I'm not gonna walk around overly sensitive with a chip on my shoulder about what I'm not getting. I'm too busy thinking about what I am getting, and so I'm gonna make the most of what I do get. So if you you know, if you do not let's just say, for instance, if somebody wanted to deny me an orange because I'm a black man, Okay, but I bet you I'm gonna give me nine thousand peaches up this motherfucker.

You know what I mean. That's how you do it.

You know what I'm saying, You go get it, like you can't be caught up in that because that misery and that and that that that woe was me mentality, that victim mentality.

That's not successful. I'm about being successful. You know what I'm saying, what.

Does success look like for you? In regard to the Force.

Album impacting the culture?

People getting a full load of the Force album, it really impacted the culture in a major way with sales, with airplay.

With streams, people really feeling it and.

Embracing it and loving it and saying, Wow, I didn't know that an artist that came maybe two, three, four generations before me, I didn't even know that I would even be remotely interested in hearing his music, But Wow, this shit really moved me. And then on the flip side of that, it's the day one fan saying, damn, I really thought that, Like because you know the guy I went to high school where there's a bus driver now and his stomach is to his knees, that L

But you just got to be on it like that.

You know what I'm saying. What cloth are you cut from? Are you cut from the surrender cloth or you cut from the conquer cloth? You got to make those decisions, you know what I'm saying. So that's what I want, you know what I mean, like touch the world with that shit and let people know, like, Yo, this dude is this guy's real, This shit is real.

This is a different thing.

This dude is different because he really executes the shit he says like, you know, this ain't raising in the sunbeam. I'm not just talking about the shit all day and you know, and they're never doing it.

Would the music be enough to tell the ll cool J story?

Oh no, No, I'm way too multifaceted for that. There's too many dimensions to my character. But it definitely will tell the artistic stories that I've been looking to put forth, you know what I'm saying, And it'll tell people where I was at when I created that music and what I felt was important, what I was inspired by, and hopefully you can find inspiration in my inspiration. You know what I'm saying. It's like, you know, you know, it's like having sex. Man, you know what I'm saying. You

That's life. You know what I'm saying. So that's what it is. You know what I'm saying. That's how I'm doing it. You know what I'm saying.

I love cool Jake.

Man.

I appreciate you, brother, love you for the time.

Man, mister, appreciate you.