Kanye West interview with Charlamagne

do you? What do you think caused the mental breakdown? Fear, stress, control, being controlled, manipulation, like being a pawn and a chess piece of life, stressing things that that create, like valid dation that I didn't need to uh worry about as much and you know that. Just this is the concept of competition and being in competition with so many you know, elements at one time on a race against time, your age, Oh yo, you're getting old. Race against popularity on the radio.

Klik got this song, Drake got this song on race playing the death Saint Polo ain't playing. I could do that, man, take the whole I could take the whole interview talking about Yeah, it's interesting because you never you've been the guy that has always created the flow, not gone with the flow. So it seems like you were a little upset that you weren't a part of the flow. It

was weird. I was looking at you know, we're doing SAT poplo and the cultural impact is incredible, but I'm looking for other forms of validation when it's other frequencies and other currencies. So just because it's not playing on the radio. Of course, we had you know, father stretches in the club and on the radio a bit like it went to number one, but you know, to put that same amount, if not more work into a piece of work, and then you used to it coming out

like graduation where everything is everywhere. You know, it's frustrating, and really ever since the Taylor Swift moment, it just had never had never been the same, the connection with radio. It's like whatever powers that be, it was much harder after that. And then also you know La leaving Universal,

like you know, he had that radio locked. So if you're an artist and you signed to a major label, you want to be on the radio, espasically, if you if you popular, if you popping, you know, if you want the most famous people and planning and people love your music and all the best artists in the world are coming to your concert and all friends is like, you know, snapchat themselves at the shows and you're selling merch out like that. It seems like, okay, radio should

just be intacted. It might be just a piece of information that I was missing that wasn't being expressed to me that I didn't understand because at the end of the day, someone's controlling it and I didn't. I didn't understand it. But the radio con the radio element was just one of the factors. There's like, uh, you know, the situation with my wife in Paris, and all of the elements of like you feeling like, you know, helpless,

you feeling like what can you do? A thousand you know, I had like went to Paris on that trip to protect her, but not protect her, you know, physically, but to go and just help her with her looks because she's in Paris. So I'm like, let me put my eye on it personally while she's out in Paris, to

make sure she busts these nigga's ass blah blah. You know, just so so like get fly and one of the things that she said that she heard is that they were coming to robber and they had to wait till I had I had left and when I finally and that the people have been strategizing and scheming on that for a long time. So when she probably got to Paris by herself, they were like, okay, this is our chance. Next, you know, I get off on the flight the next day and they were like, oh okay, we got to

like fall back. And then, you know, when I left. A couple of days later, I'm on stage and I hear that my boys. KaiA comes up to me and says, you know, your wife was robbed, and I at that point I didn't know the whole element of the host

story of what was happening previous to that. You know, just one week before that or two weeks before that, I had done a fashion show and I was forty five minutes late and they Lebron to me bro like men when Lebron went to like when Lebron went to Miami and they just killed him and like burned his

like jersey and all that. It's like I just down the MSG young thug on stage, you know, and then go and plug in an iPhone with sixteen thousand people, everybody in the audience, whoever you want to name and shit, you know, stream and live all this like a breakthrough.

And as soon as I was forty five minutes late, I felt it was the fashion community getting the right to say nigger without saying it, to be like, Yo, we know you come through stepping on next and all that and what you do in your approach of things and stuff, but if you get out of line, boy, we're gonna roast you. And it affected me because I'm an artist, and it affected me emote like, emotionally. It's like all these things were like almost set up to

put me on mats, to break me down. The robbery, like I don't you know, I don't know where that you know, where that came from? The you know, was that a bigger plan, a bigger setup? You know. Also, just be on stage four times a night, I mean four times a week, you know, you get exhausted up there. So he was mentally exhausted, emotionally exhausted, physically exhausted everything. Yeah, yeah,

did you go to therapy at all? Because I feel like this is a lot to unpack, and I'm sure you're to go to guy for a lot of people, so it's like, who did the go to guy go to? So I'm sure you had to go to some therapist. Nah. I used the world as my therapy, as my therapist, anyone I talked to is my therapist. I would pull them into the conversation when I'm feeling at that point and get their perspective. Sometimes they'd be like, damn, I'm talking to Yay, I'm not expecting to talk about this.

I'll use you know, I'll talk through things anybody that I'm around. And I put that as advice to people. It's like, use people around you as your therapists because they probably know more about you, like a therapists, like does a crash course in NA And then it comes it's like want to give you, you know, some advice.

And I'm not saying that the therapists are bad. I'm just saying that I like just talking to acquaintance, friends, family, and you know, I'll keep them on the phone, you know, for forty five minutes at a time talking through things. It's like it's kind of narcissistic, you know, uh, talk about my problems using the energy even like just then being a sounding board and talking through it so well when when when it comes to you know, I guess

mental healthhold to speak. You seem to be in a good space mentally, so how did how did you get there? You just talk through it with people or wasn't music we set earning the Twitter now? Just getting these thoughts out therapeutic for you. Yeah, but I'm not even the thoughts that I'm getting down on Twitter right now and that you know, I think everything is therapeutic, but I'm not doing it as a you know, a form of personal therapy. It's just an innate feeling. I just I

want to express. I decided to use this platform to express some breakthroughs that I've had since going to the hospital. What are some of those breakthroughs? You know, you said something about the fashion world and how you felt like when you was forty five minutes late, they tried to cut your head off. It's kind of the same thing with Taylor Swift when you got on stage and you know,

interrupted her acceptance. It's like, do you feel like whenever you're in spaces where you're tolerated as opposed to celebrate it, they let they remind you of that. Oh yeah, you get reminded all the time, but the reminders don't mean nothing to me anymore because I've broken it. You know, this is this is an erma's level existence at this point. You know, like you look at a birkin bag, the way it's made, the more scratches on it, the more

the more value it has. You know. So all those things, those pieces of the story have created who I am today. And I wouldn't turn down anything like I always I would be thinking about you as I was recovering, and I always thought I'm gonna go and talk to Charlotmagne first, And I just wanted to say, like there was elements about going to the hospital and having a breakdown or breakthrough that was fire. It was incredible, the feeling, it

was incredible, you know. Well, on the song St. Pablo, I said, I'm praying an outer body experience what happens, so people could see my light and know it's not just rapping. You have the context of rap um. Here here go one related I want to talk about rap picko. One related to what I was saying about the fashion show. So if my name pops up in a publication, uh, and you know today I don't want to use white

black black man show all too much of that. I want to modernize, but I want to speak about the concept of racism is something that is something we're in, is something of the past, it's something we'll break in the future. So i'd say this. You know, if it's a white publication, if they use the word rapper, they're not saying that in a complimentary way. They're trying to say that to not classified in a Howard Hughes picassos.

You know, I just way, yeah, artists or just person or something, just who I am, whatever, say say my name and whatever, Just say my first name, say half of my first name, just say yeah, whatever and whatever someone takes from that, then cool, and then say what happened. Let's just leave it there, don't put no extra sauce on it. So when they put the rapper and then

they'll say something, I'll say that's like absolutely inspired. But if they put it in the something inspired in the wrong context will come off as I don't want to say crazy because I also want to change the stigma or crazy, and I want to change the stigma of mental health period And I have not done no extra study on it. We at the beginning of it, at the beginning of the conversation. But let's believe I'm gonna

take the stigma off the word crazy. But let's just say for now, people will take something that's enlightened, put it in a different contexts, and then call it crazy to try to diminish the impact and the value of what I'm actually saying. Yeah, I mean, that's that's why I say I go to therapy every Friday at three o'clock because you know, sometimes you feel like rad Finki and the Lion King. Remember r Finki knew exactly what

Simbol came from. You knew exactly who Simbol was and what Simbol was about what everybody would say, Yo, ro Fiki is crazy. Stayed away from him, and when nay ro Finki took that staff and hit Simbol over here and say, no, you're crazy because you don't even know who you are. Looking this is lake and let me show you where you come from. I think you might have forgotten that your Kanye was because so many people was trying to read, trying to make you believe that

you were lesser than who you truly are. Oh yeah, if you hang around people who act like you aren't who you are, then you'll forget who you are. And I got a doper way. I've written it down and that was a way. Yeah, tweet, you know we should just tweet. Just tweet that right now? Speaking of Twitter, Yeah, you know, how does that feel coming back to Twitter? Because I would think I was coming back to Twitter because I would think that the hardest thing for Kanye

was is to be quiet. Yeah, he was quiet for like a year. I didn't have a lot to say. I had a lot to learn. And you know, right now you'll document where I'm at. This is I felt the need to speak at this point. You know, when you when you look up at five years from now or ten years from now, there'll be I'll be even more I'll have more experience, I'll be in a I'll be in a better place than I was today. But

it's good for you to see, Yea. You know, there'll be mistakes, there'll be flaws and the way I communicate today because where human beings are flawed. I'm not media trained, I'm not studied in that. I'm not trying to save the right thing. I'm just saying exactly what I feel out of out of love. When was the last time

Kanye westfold like he had something to learn? Because that's interesting here, you say, because you know, Kanye is the guy who seems to know everything, like to know what's going on as far as music fashion, Like, when's the last time Kanye felt like he has something to learn? Every day? Every day I'm trying to learn something, and every day I get you know, I get afraid. I'm I'm fearful of things and I just use bravery to overcome. But I'm fearful of I mean the quote, it's the

quote people always say, the wise man knows he knows nothing. Yeah, I'm learning and now I'm expressing some things that I felt And if they mean something to you at this time, then great. If not, then you know, don't don't use them. So you know a lot of um you know, I think me and um Jay's issue, my my issue. It just came down to information. I'm super hungry for information. I'm I need information more than I need validation, more

than I need finance. I need like if I learned how to fish, then I can feed my family forever. So I'm just constantly looking for the information. Information. How do I set up a factory? So you feel like Jay was tossing you money as opposed to give you the information. You know, the infamous line on four four four is, you know, I gave Kanye twenty meal without thinking he gave me twenty minutes on stage. You know what was he thinking? Oh? I think it was twenty

meal without banking. Whatever it was, he gave me twenty million dollars. That concept that you gave me, that he gave me the money, that's what frustrated me, because actually the money was he got it from my nation. He rack Nations managed me at the time. That's something normal that someone gives someone a touring deal. It was a touring deal. But the fact that it was worded that it came from him. I'm a very loyal, emotional like artist person. You know, that made me feel like I

owed more than just the money itself. For the fact that it came from him, you know, it just put me under a bit more of a kind of controlled situation. It's like, and I don't I'm only acting out of love. I don't need to be controlled. I just need to be inspired and informed and I can be the best Ya in that way. But if I have to, I gave you this on it and I don't have the

full information of how it happened. Now that said, I think there was some love in that because on Jay's part, because he did have to co sign for it when the Live Nations and these different companies wouldn't co sign for me and I was in debt. Jay did have to go up and say I'm a co sign for ya. So the thing is, it's it's one of those ones that have you ever done something where you did something for someone that's positive, but it was something about the way you did it that kind of like blew the

whole thing up. So Jay did something that was positive, but the fact that I didn't receive the information in the right way, I you know, because I always feel like, man, I'm not hearing Hollywood, I'm not here, like my mom's past, I don't know who I can trust. I don't trust nobody,

And Jay was a big brother, big brother. I feel like both of y'all might have reacted emotionally though, meaning that like you reacted emotionally when you was on stage and you ranted and then he replied in a record, you know, that's not really his his character to do something like that, to put out like this is what I did for such and such. I mean, yeah, but he he did it in a brotherly way. You know, he could have went all. He could have released an

entire record or something like that. It's just a bar. You could have could have went crazy, got every single piece of information and possible my life and stuff. No, the finances are you know so um, even like when I tweeted I was in debt, that gave me power that I took my power back because it's like someone trying to say, like, yo, if you say this, you're

not gonna be cool no more. And it's like, man, my financial situation don't make me Yeah, I'm in debt now what and I'm still Yeah, you did the eminem and a mile when you say it about myself before somebody else can use it against me. Yeah, that's what I call living your truth. To living your truth, so you know, when you lived the truth, nobody can use your truth against you. Yeah. You know. Um, when you and Jay that now we're good. You know, we're tweeting.

I mean we're texting each other. It's positive energy. Have y'all seen each other. I haven't seen him, but I could feel him. Or you know what keeps what keeps you brothers like y'all from just you know, come to the house, man, let's have a meal, Let's let's let's sit down and talk face to face out of the eye. Because every time I, you know, see him doing an interview, whether they would let him in, whoever he's saying, that's that's my brother, like I love him. Like, so what

stops you off from just face to face communication. We'll do it sometimes. Also, like when you have like such similar personalities and people are you know, creating their own existence in their own world and their own simulation or whatever. You know, they need to do it on their own.

You know, when we were doing Watch the Throne, I was there, you know, in service to Jay, in service to myself too, you know, but I was there where any idea that Givanchi artwork on Watch the Throne, Like the first time you ever saw the Givanchi dog was on ham was on a ham cover or that you know, the oldest be the producers were working with. Every piece of information was open source directly for you know, my idol for Jay and that's where we were at that time.

And if that's the case, then you know, yeah, he's gonna be around more. You know. If I you know, I went off and you know, started focusing on clothes and uh building my company and my you know, my factory and my office and just focus on my family all this, and you know that's what happened. Jay said, you went too far talking about his family. Do you feel like you feel like you went too far? What pends on how you look at it. If we're a family, if we're brothers and we are family, then then it's

my family. If we're business or so shits and this, then it was too far, gotcha, you know, respectfully, you know, Um, you know, I gotta say, you know, I was hurt about I was hurt about them not coming to the wedding. I understand it was going through some things. But if it's family, you know, you're not gonna miss a wedding,

you know. And I'm not I'm not using this interview to put any negative things, but I gotta state, yeah, I gotta state my truth, like and then that one thing happens, and another thing happens, another thing, have another things happening you just start coming up with all type of crazy ideas in your head and stuff like why and it obviously it's me. I'm like, wow, personality and stuff from like the cousin. You can't bring nowhere all this type of stuff obviously. Uh. But uh, that's interesting

about the wedding. Did did they not come because you know in the press it was Beyonce they has a problem with Kim or you know, they don't like all the Kardashian reality show type thing, or maybe now in hindsight, maybe it was because they had their own issues that they was trying to work out. What do you think it was? I'm not sure. I'm past it, but at the time I was hurt about it. Did you ask him?

I don't think I've asked them that question directly, maybe talking through someone that worked with him and that kind of thing. But I think you gotta address what bothers you. Hey, I think that's what might be causing that, what causes the breakthroughs. You know, when you're not asking the things that you want to ask, Like those are questions you can get answers for, Like some things you can't get answered for, but that one you can get an answered

for I don't think the answer fixes it. True. True. I want to go back to something you said speaking about fixing something like how did you, as a man, forgive yourself for you know, you said you feel like you let your your wife down because you hired the security. How did you get over that because that's not your fault, that's a chance. I mean, she wasn't here. I would never forgive myself, you know, it's just bucked out when you're super a high profile and this celebrity, the concept

of celebrity. You're like as famous as the president, but you don't have National Guard with you. You gotta hire your own. You gotta make your own like you know, community guard. So you just it's just a constant thing basically, the idea of security and the way it relates to fame and this that all that. It's like, yeah, especially with you know, social media and all these different things and like, oh, that's like my wife doesn't even wear

big diamonds anymore. We don't keep no jury, no money in the house, no you know, name, high art, none of that. We don't keep any of that any place, you know, where our kids stay. Yeah, that's one of the things I'll talk to my therapists about though, because it's it's a very vulnerable feeling being a father and a husband, because our job is to protect and provide. But you we're not with our kids twenty four seven, like our kids at school right now, Like anything can happen.

You know, you're not with your wife all the time, so anything can happen. So it's kind of like a very vulnerable feeling like you almost got to let go and let God so to speak. You know, do you think you think it's easy to be feeless when it's just you that you have to worry about. But you know, not being a husband and a parent do to make you more afraid to take more chances? Yeah, but you gotta stay brave. You have to follow your gut feeling.

Know I have everyone has a position in the universe, and you know, I've been made and had the experiences I had for a reason to be expressive, to to to go through going to the hospital, to go through the dynamics of you know, family, brother working relationships. You know, I gotta follow my gut when I have that fear. I said, have to be you know, brave, and you know I think as interested in this world. That's like

looking for sound bites. Like when we talk about the Jay thing, it's like, you know what, I do love Jay, and I don't have all the answers for every issue I've ever had. I don't have a sound bite for everything. That's fine, you know, Like you said, sometimes a language is an overrated formal communication, right, Like words don't always do it? Do it? Justice? I saw something you tweeted and it was to the effective us. Some things can't

be explained. Some things just need to be experienced. What's what's that? Expand on that a little bit. When you want to express yourself, A lot of times words can get in the way justice innate feeling that we have. You know, when someone's talking to you, trying to talk you into something or something like that, and you're just like, look, this just don't feel right. You know. Oftentimes people playing ball doing karate whatever it is they and people that

they don't mention karate. Since the eighties, karate used to be the ship, you know, but you see all the karate films like, but it always be you know, get out of your head, go from your gut, go from your cheat, do what you feel and That's what I'm big on. Stop strategizing so much, Stop setting so many plays, Stop doing things only based in fear, like the universe

will assist you when you are acting in love. I tweeted this thing where I said, when you're acting in love, you're like a drop of water and you have the ocean as your army. When you act in fear, it's just you and your money. Now, you could take your money and put it in bitcoin, and put a credit form, put in cash, or all your cash, and then and then stand up to the ocean, and who's gonna win. I'm understanding. I think your mind stayed a little bit more like when you was on stage and you'd be

going into those rants, it was out of fear. You're afraid at that time. I think those rants, I think to do the rants though we're brave. I think we're in a place now where bravery is more important than perfection, Feeling is more important than thought. People get so they put so much thought into it, what's going to happen? So I actually think that the rents came from a place a bravery and I had enough of the politics, you know, And that's the world that we're in right now,

like people are speaking their truth. You know, people are expressing themselves. And you know, I've been waiting for this. I've been waiting for this moment because it's always been such a you know, just a politically rand you know, society and mentality that everyone's been in and stuff like don't do that, you need to do this, you need to you don't need to hang out with them, you need to hang out with them, you know, blah blah all this and like trying to please people and all

that stuff. And I don't feel like right now like people are trying to please people the same way they're trying to please themselves. That could be a bad thing too, though, right because I feel like we're all public service at the end of the day, we're here to serve the needs of the public. We're all greater than ourselves. Well, we definitely got to touch you on the word bad and the idea of good and bad things just are it depends on what side you are if something is

good or bad. It depends on what your agenda is. But of course we can speak in terms of bad. You know, we we haven't got our language hasn't evolved to what either of us are feeling at this point. So both of us could be thinking in two thousand and thirty, but we still got to communicate in two and eighteen because that's when this is dropping. So we because you always seem to play play in the future. Yeah, I guess we don't. I guess we could be in

the future. Yeah, people got to catch up. Yeah, you talked about the politics, you know, you said on stage. I was saying that with the word bad bad, because people are people. People are so raised on the idea of home team, away team, positive, negative, good, bad, Like I think negative gets too much of a negative rap. You know, it's life is a balance. Yeah, that's when we were talking earlier. I was liking, I don't believe in any good or bad experiences. I feel like everything's

just a part of the process of life. Yeah. You know, when you think about bad experiences that have happened to you, do you still look at them as just bad or did you learn something from them? There's no bad and there's no enemies, even people want to kill you or not your enemy. That's something I was going to tweet, and I was like, I feel this, but I don't know if people would take it in a certain way.

Got a lot of ideas that afford and you know, I'm just gonna keep building like a mountain, the mountain of like a snowball snowball ideas, and just keep getting more and more more more expressive as I go. That's what the book is going. But you know, I don't even know if it's a book. It's like stream. It's all about streams. Everything is stream. That's why that's an amazing word. That's an amazing modern and futuristic word. Streams,

streams of conscious and streaming music. Everything is just a stream. It relates to water. You know, it's like exactly you know where we will be. We will be ultra like being an ultra like stream. We will be all just a stream. I feel like Kanye West the brand, well, Kanye West, the man is rebelling against Kanye West the brand. You know, my email is not at Kanye West. You will have retired from whatever that meant to be Kanye West. So I think the spirit, my spirit, my attitude is

a representation of fighting for your own truthful live. Like if I died tomorrow, stuff it would live past me. The Yeah, it's like a pock thing and stuff. That's your name though, just like Tupac, that was his name, Like your mother gave you the name Kanye West there and it means the only one. You know. One of the incredible things I thought about when I went to the hospital is on Kendrick's album, there is the skit, uh what Tupackets talk about the Black man at age thirty? Right,

And I'm like, I made it to thirty nine. I made it to thirty nine with my opinion alive, with my opinion. I'm forty and I still have my opinion. You know. One of the things that was incredible when I, you know, got out of the hospital was I had lost my confidence. Kanye was with no confidence. I was like Michael Jordan new jumping Yeah, like and you could see it, that's what I'm saying, sunken place and all this stuff. You know, It's like, uh and wow. I

never had the empathy for people who lacked confidence. I had so much of it. I didn't know what it was like to be without it. Do you mean zero confidence or you just was less confident than usual. It just wasn't Black Panther Superman level confidence. It was you know, it was placed into the simulation, and shit, I was like completely could be like molded and controlled and everything.

If that was the case, if I was, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't speak up, you know, I you know I'm gonna speak up and stuff like where I was and I got the hospital. It's even when I did the next fashion show, you know it, it got all these good reviews. Yeah, because I was less confident because it's like they're there, boy, that's exactly what we wanted. Oh okay, okay, So you were you traded authenticity for approval. I didn't trade it. I just didn't have it. I

didn't have me. I didn't have my confidence, so that superpower could never Like if I was like homeless, any situation, you could take everything you could black mirror me. You can put shit on the media and say yay, fuck the goat, that all this type of ship, and you will not take my confidence away. What took Kanye's confidence? That's like that's literally like somebody bringing Krypton make the Superman. That's why I taking the herb from Black Panther. Like,

what took your confidence? I don't know exactly what it was. It had something to do. I mean maybe a doctor could give an explanation, but it had to do or something with coming through the breakthrough. I like to call it the breakthrough and have the breakdown coming through the breakthrough that you know. But also I think it was incredible because it was a forced amount. It was forced humility because I positive or negative, I like a humility.

It just is what it is. But previously I would have looked at humility is more of a negative thing, and even if you read certain definitions, it's it's kind of got a negative vibe. But as you said before, no positive or negative. But also that humility gave me time to to grow and everyone just backed off. A lot of people depend on me. They asked for a lot of things that like Superman do this for me.

And you know, one of the things that the irony because people always talk about the Sunken Place and you think the meme. They got the meme of you and you're you're the main character from Get Out with the Tears in your eyes and Chris Teacup. Yeah that I never saw the meme, but I could, I could, I get the picture of it. M The funny thing about that is that my wife like she's like, I'm responsible, Like Yay's mom has passed away, I'm responsible to take

care of this superhero. And my mom might have had these things where she made sure I never took my Superman cape off. You know, I got this rap that say parents are the strippers striped kids, that the confidence teach white dominance, question your common sense. I've been washed in tradition. The a'm a Rents hopped off the alma stile and made a'm a god. Um. Now, when I

said it, I like it for this interview. When I said it on a song, I didn't like the frequency of it because it felt dated because it touched on race too much. So it's not that not that racing. We definitely are dealing with racism, but I want to push future concepts you know now I'm doing. I'm giving you two streams of consciences. In one, I want to talk about my wife. I also want to talk about Harriet Tubman on twenty dollars bill. We're following you. You

said it up good. That was the moment that I wanted to use bitcoin and I saw Harry Tubbing on a twenty dollar bill. Why it's like when you just see like all the slave movies. It's like, why you gotta keep reminding us about slavery. Why don't you show us put Michael Jordan on a twenty dollars bill? But Harriet tubbing with the slave who rebelled though, like hearing that turner in a different frequency. Though they kind of would like you when you said you didn't feel like

being controlled. Yeah, you know what, it's funny Like my boy Tremaine tweeted, you know, a picture of me and Virgil and he said, Malcolm X among of the king and all these people got mass, Like how can you compare them to that? Man? I know this is going to cause an uproar, but certain certain icons is just too far in the pass and that relatable and that's

what makes them safe. Like they'll let you go on the Grammys and talk about slavery and all that and racism because it's not talking about buying stock, it's not talking about buying property. Yeah, economic empolament, Yeah, it's not talking about economic power. You can complain as hard as you want on that platform, but it's not scary or that's what ultimately got model for King Junior killed like it wasn't when he was fighting the civil rights. That's

when he started talking about economic empolament. When he was playing things like the Poor People's March, which is gonna be the largest march on Washington with people of all colors that were just pointing this enfranchise, that's when they took Martin up. How Cay, how is the comparison with virgin Virgil though? What was saying that he's he's more Martin, I'm more Malcolm. Oh, but there is a civil rights element to the ability to create your own industry because

even when we did rap everything we got. Basketball and rap are both someone else's industry, so you're always a player. M it took Michael Jordan a long time to become an owner. Would that said because you mentioned Virgil like he's not a creative director for Louis Baton, feel like he went from being an owner with off White to not being a player. How do you how do you feel about that some people have to do things just to prove that they can be done and whether they

become the billionaire Da da dada. On the other side of it, you know, Obama went into that office as a public servant in a service position, and it didn't matter the amount of money, it didn't matter the amount of ownership. The world, the world needed to see that this was a possibility. So for Virgil, it's like the world just needs to see things. You know, I was afraid to speak the way I speak now. I was afraid to show you, you know, my office in Calabasas.

I was afraid to show you there's three hundred acres that I just purchased that I'm building my first community on, my first five properties on because you know, I felt like it would be shut down. But it's not about me. Even if I got killed tomorrow and they shut everything down. The fact that I put the idea out is the black panther ship. That is a kid watching this in high school and a kid in college because at a certain point, you know Pock, at a certain point he

just had to message and hand the baton. He's like, I might not be here, I mean not change the world, but I mean the seed and somebody else that mean change. Yeah, And that's the thing. The problem is obviously self reservation is the first law nature, but people won't hand over codes completely to the next generation out of just protecting themselves. Like, some of the stuff we're touching on is very scary, and I'm having to be brave to talk to you

about it. There's so many elements in our life that create an icon that you're supposed to look, you're supposed to feel like you're not as good as the icon. I have an issue with that. I'm just gonna say it, backlash whatever. I have an issue with ideas that are presented that make you feel less for your entire life. We look at human beings as more than men or more than women. Yeah, yeah, and then when they do something that's human, yeah, they're like, oh they let us down.

Oh yeah, bro. When I was in the hospital, especially the black people that worked at the hospital, and I was on that hospital bed, and I felt like they were like my family members, and I looked at them in their in their eyes, and I don't know, it was like the tribe or something. It's like, as much as I want to say we're one race, one he met one living organism. You know, there is an element

of the black celebrity in America. And when I was laid out in the hospital bad looking through the window at a black UCLA employee, I felt like I had left them down. I felt like they was looking at me like just shaking a head. That just sad. It's like, oh, that's yay, that's yay in that hospital bad, that's our gay bro, like, that's that's our the ya juice, like he can't like they can't, they can't break him. That

your tribe though. I think I think, you know, one of the one of the big moments was when you met with Donald Trump, and I think that led a lot of people down. You know. The funny thing is I always think about that Dave Chappelle skit of the was Benjamin Bixie. It's like they created you know about the blind Rasons, right, yeah, the blind Raceists and stuff

like Clayton Bigsby. Right. It's like I felt like when I came out and expressed what I said, and when I felt that was almost like a Clayton Bigsby moment, when everybody's head exploded, like, my ya, George Bush don't care about black people, cannot in any way, this dude has to like dis Trump at all points, at all costs, everything about and who was some dynamics to this. So many people around me said, don't express your feelings why your brand, You're this, You're that, You're that you said

you would have voted for. That's the feeling I'm you're talking about, right, Yeah, that feeling. Yeah, because people first thing they say is racism. They say, well, what makes George Bush more any more racist than Trump? There's a question, my friend asked me. My responses, well, racism isn't the deal breaker from here. If that was the case, I wouldn't live in America. That's a rich that's a rich nigh though. Oh no, as a rich yeah ideal with racism,

I do it just best for the indusgated community. But all the tip shit, I deal with it. So I I got love for Obama. I got love for everybody, every human being that ever existed. But I felt like Obama was perfect. He was almost like Nike or is where if you or Nike? When I was at Nike

that Nike. Now like when I said, if you sew in the good with everything and you got your whole thing playing down a strategize, if you have like a rogue character like me that comes in and says we need to do this for Chicago, we need to do this, that you're gonna take it with a grain of salt. You're gonna be cordial, You're gonna be all you know, all that. But you're like, you're not really gonna change anything, you know. Night when I was at Nike, they weren't

willing to change anything. They feel n who I have the most respect for. I have respect for everyone at Nike too, these guys, Mark Parker. You know, I just gotta speak out as a as a parent, you know, and apologize to this man forever, speaking ill on his name and his company, because he gave me that shot when we did the original Easy at Nike and he was there with me. I was on a plane with him on sketching and he said, look at this sketch

because got a chance. And he put me next to Tinker hot Field and it's me and don See making the first Yeezy with Tinker hot Field and Mark Parker. That was the squad that made the original Nike Yeasy. So I just want I always wanted to express that as as a father, and you know, and when my karma comes, you know, I'll accept it in real time, you know, like kill Bill. You know what I'm saying.

When that karma comes to get you, people I got a frustration sometimes, yeah, but I got some karma waiting on me so um, but I just wanted to express that because we're putting into the universe only good energy, and every moment was a great moment because if Mark Parker hadn't given me that moment, then he help turbo charge me. And the combination Louis Vuitton. I had Louis Vuitton sneaker and Nike sneaker come out at the same time,

so they helped turbo charge me. And I had a conversation with my friend in Chris's house down the street. And you talk about some rich egga shit, I'll tell you something, a regular man shit that every man deals with. My girlfriend has a child. We have a baby. You make decisions in your life based on providing for your family. I love Nike. I loved the Nike. I have to

put the eed on it for the stockholders. So but when I was, you know, younger, I used to sketch to swoosh everything, you know, So it was heartbreaking for me to have to leave Nike. But they refused to allow me to get royalty on my shoe, and I knew I had the hottest shoe in the world. I knew Yeasy was the hottest brand in the world, but I couldn't get royalties. They just said, look, you can make five thousand shoes or ten thousand shoes and we'll

give some of the proceeds to your favorite charity. But it was nothing to build. No. Now we building factories. They wouldn't let me build anything. Trying to create generational wealth. Yeah, and just put out more amazing ideas to the world, both things, generational wealth, more ideas. My friend was that Chris's house and expressed to me that he had received a royalty because he was a store and I'm easy and they wouldn't give me a royalty. That was like

the final straw. I was talking to Puma and talking to Adidas. The dude didn't sign me at Puma. Definitely needs to lose his job and stuff. I'm not gonna say his name, but can you imagine so, because you know, with that infrastructure and these ideas in this connection I have, it wasn't no way. It wasn't gonna be a unicorn. You know, Jeezy is a unicorse, a billion dollar company. We were at fifteen million two years ago, and we're gonna hit a billion this year. It's never ever been

heard of. So that make you anxious if they give you anxiety, Uh, okay, that's what it's supposed to be. You know, if I really had some percentage that related to my actual influence, I'd be like a multi trillionaire. So that's fine. So I made the decision and I left, and I went with someone that would allow me to build something. You know, I can call the CEO of Adidas directly. I have a cell phone. Mark Parker wouldn't get on the phone with me. Really, I don't even

think you should be apologizing them. He wouldn't even give you a courtesy call. Yeah, you know, they'd say things like I don't know why people like the Yeasies and you know fairies. So and the funny thing is, look at Nike now. Literally all the people that ever work with me are like the hottest people at Nike now, Like they gave them the deals because we left and ripped their heads off. Um, how did that make you feel with me? Leave you to go back to a

place that stifled job? Basically, who are you saying they're talking about? Like, yeah, um they got families, bro. You know these corporations. They provide an opportunity. These are my friends, they have families. If I'm not going to provide them the same opportunity, I'm not going to stand in their way either. But you are provide them the same opportunity. It's just more of ale Y'll are building something as opposed to something that already exists. Now, like a lot

of times, people like the room the space. You know, when you get such a big corporation, you could build up your own brand next to it. If you're really you know, close to me, it's just going to be my brand. So people you know, want to build their own brand actually need to be as far away from me as possible to just to get out of the shadow. I'm kind of we kind of weird because you know, you being Kanye West. The heat that you bring heats

them up just enough. Like I wouldn't know a Virgil and he hadn't been Kanye West, his creative director or creative collaborator or whatever you wanted to call it. Yeah, it's interesting. Now all unfolds and you feel different ways. There's a lot of there's mixed emotions. They're like, oh, this is my crew, My crew is working for Nike killing it. You know, I want my crew next to me, because like when I get on the phone with Virgil, that's my you know, that's my team. He's he's like

the strategists. I'm I'm the emotor. I'm like Tesla. I'm thinking of all the ideas like Nikola, Tesla like not the car. And I'm thinking of all these ideas. And Virgil is able to take all of those ideas and then architect them because he is an architect, like you would the school for architecture. But also this is great training. You know, people gotta like I heard Nike dust stuff

like sends people to business school. But there still like a Nike like best believe Don Matt, Virgil, Jerry still Donda at the end of the day, Louis Baton, It's still Donda at the end of the day. So I know, we go We're going to back to the presidential thing. So I want to go back to Brundia too. We'll go back 's go back to the president thing. I'm still trying to figure out what's the correlationship between Obama

and Nike and how it relates to Trump. See, Obama came to me before he ran for office, and he met with me and my mother to let me know he was going to run for office because I am his favorite artist of all time, because I am the greatest artist of all time. You know what, It makes sense. He got good taste. Yeah, he got his confidence back. I'm just saying that it's a flat statement up to

this point. You know, after me, there will be greater you know, but this is this is yay, Like this is like past anything that's happened up to this point. This is the best, even Michael Jackson, Prince Steven Wonder, whoever else you want to throw out there, because I throw out there. I though Howard Hughes in there. I through Henry Ford, I though Walt Disney, I through Steve Jobs got you in there also. So you can't say it's a lot because something like that is a matter

of opinion. Yeah, and the debate, they're right, it's naven in debate. It's just the truth. Yeah, it's man, When you when you, when you're the greatest, is funny, man, you know what I mean? Like Ali lived a great life. You gotta know who you are, absolutely, you gotta know who you are. Um. So Obama it's like, Yay's like my favorite artist. I want you to support. I'm running for office, my office. It's dope. You know, I'm gonna get a black president students. Matt COO's from you know, Chicago.

Then when I went on stage, and it would have been good if this video didn't get out, but you saw the video, let me called you jack? Yeah, you know, he never called me to apologize, just the same person that sat down with me and my mom. I think should have communicated to me directly and being like yo, yay, yo, you know what it is. I'm in the room and it's just a joke. You know why he said that though, I mean at that time, so words from Obama probably

could have helped. He's the situation, not a little bit, you know what I mean, other pools to call you a jack as the point more fuel on the fight. You know, No, nobody's perfect. I love Obama. I'm sure, I'm sure we'll hang out Richard Francis Island or whatever. You know what I mean, It's it would be cool. I just think that we were in a period where, you know, he had so much stuff to deal with.

He couldn't deal with a you know wild card Like me, I think that's too unpredictable, someone that wasn't being controlled by strategy and thoughts with someone who's acting on feelings. We knew that already up to that point, though. I mean, if anything, when you said, George Bust, don't camp up black people on stage in front of millions live, people

should have realized that that moment, we can't control that guy. Yeah, you think you think people would have realized that, wouldn't You guess they didn't, So in our kind of I felt away a little bit about Obama that I'm your favorite artist. You play Touched the Sky at your inauguration, and now all of a sudden, Kendrick and Jay and all these all the people you invite to the White House like now, ease your favorite rappers now. And I ain't got a problem with these rappers, but you know

I'm your favorite. But I'm not safe. But that's why you love me. So just tell me you love me, that's all, And tell the world you love me. Don't tell the world on the jackass. I'm fighting hard enough. Something about me going on stage was similar to what you was doing, because I'm fighting to break the simulation break the setup. That didn't make no sense. It's not that I'm particularly fighting for Beyonce's video. It was every time a word show has ever done that. Just fucking

with artists. We are hsp highly sensitive people, artists. That's what you love about us. So you're gonna line up a whole bunch of artists and put us in some bumass suits and shit, this idea from like two hundred years ago. We dressed like two hundred years ago, lined up trying to wait for a gold statue, and you're gonna make us feel like shit. You know, it's five of us and shi four of us got to go to the restaurant with our friends and be like, man,

we ain't We're nothing. Fuck that, Yeah, fuck that. I remember you said that you were upset because Rance said she refused to perform at the VMA unless you won the award. I was one of the I think as a Sacramento you went on that rent. Now you know what, I don't know if that's true. I don't. I don't. I honestly don't know if that's the true thing. I like it. Don't turn in the fact that was fake

news you put up there. No someone told me that, but I haven't heard that from her and it's not confirmed, so I don't know if it's true. So that shows you like people put thoughts in your head to separate, you know. It's people who play both sides. People are somebody switching sides. There's people who will literally talk to you that I get a peace of information, drop a negative piece of talk to other side, get drop negative the information on both sides. And then it showed up.

I'm like, what's up? You know? So I don't know so I could talk to I could talk to them directly. It's neither here nor there to me. But at that point, when I was on my way to the hospital, that was that affected me because I'm pure. It's like you don't appreciate pure. It's like if you don't appreciate pure, this is like more an Obama thing, Like you don't

appreciate purity. You know, you don't understand the amount of bravery that it takes to be pure into your thirties and be a black in America and famous, like the amount of brain Like Richard Pryor has this piece where he talks about that. He says, like there's no such thing as someone making it and remaining pure. Like I'm talking to you in a stream right now. I'm forty years old, got a family, I'm famous, i got a billion dollar business, and I'm speaking to you in a stream. Yeah.

That that bothered me. But I'm not saying I have a problem with that. I just want to put this out into the universe just to just to kind of give some people something to think about it. Now. It's interesting. It's like it's a very Gemini thing. You know. You see the trades, you see the in you and in the Pocket's like, what's wrong with expressing how you feel? You know what I mean? You get to this point where you're Kanye West, the superstar of branding, It's like

they want you to be everything but human. But you're a human being being got emotions. They want you to be everything but you. But you what you're gonna say? No, I'm saying you if you feel a way about, you know something you heard that be honestly, did you feel a way about Obama calling you a jackass? You should be able to express that. Oh yeah, And then I also like had a problem you know that Obama's from Chicago,

and Chicago's a murder capital the world. You know, I had a number of things that made me say, just like how there's racist Trump supporters. There's things where I'm like, well, maybe this could make a difference. You felt like President Obama could have like wave a magic wand and just got Chicago right. It's not a magic wand. You know what, it's not his fault. Man. You've seen that gray hair on that man. You don't know what that man was doing.

I mean, you can only imagine, but just it took everything from everything in that man's spirit and soul and not say mentor racism every sentence. This man was a Jackie Robinson of politics. You know, he was the first person to do it. So, you know, we want to be supportive and be aligned also. But this isn't like an absolute sound bite. This isn't an obbsotite. This is an absolute hen on either one. It's complex. It's this

is complex because these are voices. I might be president one day, you know, so I might be in that situation where it's harder for me to explain to the masses why something isn't happening that they feel that the concept of a president should be able to fix. So two. Obama will say that I understand, bro, Like I understand, I understand like Jay that coming to the wedding, they just had an altercation. Understand, But I have my feelings also,

or so it's complex. When the black even spoke Obama, well, that was the last time we email with your mom. We did a fundraiser for midterm or for them in San Francisco, and we did a performance for them, and right before I went on stage, someone let me know that he had left. So you don't even get to see him in there. I saw him beforehand for OK. Yeah he left right before he performed. Yeah, that made you feel away? I felt away, Bro, I just don't

reach out to the brother man. I'm sure you get in touch with him, just to let him know, like

I feel away. He see this interview or we talked, I felt the way, I'll be feeling away, Bro, I'll be feeling I'll be feeling I got feelings, Bro, He's feeling away, Bro, I'd be feeling I'll be hey, I'd be feeling a way because these are people that you've assisted and helped them maybe possibly get to the point that they at and then when they get there, they don't give you that same love and return or supporting return when you need it. Nobody owes me anything, but

I'm still gonna fee or what I feel. And I understand. That's the thing where sometimes a conversation can help show respect for a situation. You know, look, I couldn't do this because of these reasons. You know how it is. You see my gray hair. It's crazy out here. I'm I'm the leader of the free world. Yeah, sorry for calling you jackass. I appreciate your honesty. I appreciate your Gemini,

your tuparcnus. I appreciate that somebody's gonna do it because I'm friends that I can't do it, but I appreciate that somebody is still willing to do it. That's why I get the interview with you. You know what I'm saying. You go off truth as you risk your life or your truth. You know the feeling? What was the feeling that made you say, you know what, I want to go meet with Donald Trump? And what yay are we

talking about? When that happened? When nothing you ain't with no confidence nothing, yea, he was trying to figure things out. What ya was that? Yeah, but I'm not gonna back down after that. I'm not I'm not gonna let myself off easy by saying I met with Trump just because I was going through something. I ain't gonna give the universe that. Nah. I'm gonna face it, and they're gonna face me. This is the ya that wanted to do

something to change something. And I would meet with them today and I would talk about Chicago first, to talk about some more things. We could eventually get into a lot of you know, elements, but we start there. Do you think he cares about black people? What do you think? Now? I'm not even gonna hit you with a question. Your question.

I hate when people do that to me. You can have you though, are you that's fire because you used to George Bush quote against me get about black people because when you met with him, he hadn't even really been, you know, acting president. Now we've got a year into our belt. Nothing good has comp of Donald Trump being in the White House other than people starting to build their own like you talked about when you left Nike,

because Nike wouldn't allow you to build your own. But I think Donald Trump is forcing us to build their own. It's a difference, Bro, I'm doing my landscape in the back of my crib, rich nigh right before we could put all the trees and add the beauty. You gotta break some things if you keep on getting just the beauty, just the perfect thing. Just the Obama walked through the hallway. It just see he don't even want his feet don't even touch the floor. He's just floating. Give a bird

the handshake and all that. You know what I mean, You get all of these images. This is what it is. This is what I wanted to talk about, the idea of black perfection. Like a black person can't be imperfect in the public eye. That's a form of control. I'm here to show you imperfection. The beauty is in the imperfection, that this is possible. When I'm sitting there at the War Show and I'm like, man, this is the staple

centers they play ball here. Y'all gonna sit through this and put this Let this mind manipulation tell you that you know someone you know. I'm ain't gonna put no energy. We're keeping a positive energy like that exactly what you're saying. That's what they used to saying about rock had to be perfect because if he wasn't perfect, and we probably would never get another one. You know, that's like the Virgil situation, right. You know, I feel like I feel

like Barrock's brother a little bit. You remember when Barrock's brother was talking a little bit before up. You know, it's like because it's complex with Louis Vatton. You know, as me and Virgil went and infiltrated fashion, which is what we did, he started to learn about it. He started, I got this thing that I'm gonna tweet later, and I rode on my retreat. That was, um. You know, you look at this mountaintop and at the top of

the mountain, it's all these tools for life. So you proceed, You said, I need these tools in order to win it life. So you proceed to climb up the mountain. But you you need tools in order to get up the the client you're collecting tools and stuff. By the time you get to the top of the mountain, you got more tools than was at the top. And that's what I figured out about fashion. You know, I talked to Virgil for an hour. You know, I realized that the concept of luxury and all this is what did

I love about Gucci? What did I love about Louis Vatan, I love tom Ford, I love the artist, and Gucci created a platform for the artist. I love Mark Jacobs and Louis Vatan created a platform for the artists. It's a battle that y'all don't know about. Francois Pino, Bernard Arno. Who those people are, Francois Pino, Is Balenciaga and Gucci. Okay, okay, Binararno is the richest person in fashion. This is the head of the LVMH group. Like I've been to his

house before. I've shaken hands to do a deal before with this man, and he's one of my idols, just like jay Z. He's called you know as he made culture before culture there was culture because he set the platform before there was an internet. To hire John Gagliano from Saint Martin's one of Louis Wilson students, hire Mark Jacobs. He had the vision. This man is a visionary, you know, he is one of my idols. I love Bernard. I feel as energy he loves me also. So this is

how it works. They have two main, main main schools that have raised the fashion icons. Parsons in New York and Saint Martin's in London, but Nard I know, and Pino that's their recruiting, you know camp they go there. And now the breakthrough Virgil is now we have someone who's come from Donda. It's come from the school to Kanye West. And I hear people talk about all he didn't go to school. Oh, we went to school, all right.

We hit to school. Were doing JPEGs in Japan and we were we were making photoshops so much and not making clothes that we we started just joking about the JPEGs, like did you shrink my jpeg? Did you? Did you? Did you die my jpeg? And ship we because we couldn't figure out how to actually make the clothes, so we just do it in photoshop. And Virgil became the fastest photoshop artist that I've ever met in my life.

We'd be sitting in a you know, you know, right before we went to Findy, you know, just photoshopping things we en't during defending. But we ain't do shit, bro, We ain't get to do nothing. Man. I was just happy to have a cart. Did it upset you because you said you have mixed emotions with Virgil? Got the got the job? Did it upset you because that's something that you wanted, Like you was verbal about wanting it on one of these fashion houses and being able to

create for Louis Baton, a Gucci. What's the thing we said about, you know, the tools at the top of the mountain. You know, in the process you gain all the tools. It's the journey, and that journey you gain everything you need. Now we got factories, we've it's you know, there is some we talk about validation, need or not need for validation. There is some validation and the fact that, um, someone that I came up with is now the head of Louis Baton, you know, And I said, you know, honestly,

you know that's um, that was a slight. I shouldn't have worded like that. Virgilous the head of men'swear. Nicholas gascar is the head of women's weear, but our no, it's the head. So I just want a word it straight straight up, because every time we stay head, it's like a little bit of a slight to Nicholas, and Nicholas is the god, like maybe the best top top number one designer in the world. Did Virgil call you before he took the job, because because because that was

something that you wanted. Did he call you, like, yo, let me at least consult with yea, asking if there's something I should do? Or did you hear about it on the internet like the rest of us. No, he made the call two minutes before hit dinner. But wow, But so you didn't know about the meetings or the

stuff that was happening beforehand. No. No, when we I was in the I was in Berlin with Rocky and he told me, He's like, you know, we're looking at I'm looking at Bluis Vutan, I'm looking at Versachi like he you know, you know, like yeah, I'm wow, you know what I mean. So it's all like the fact that he had to work with me for ten years. It's like my reputation is kind of like Devil Wears product or something like that. So people are mindful in the way that they give me information too. So he

he didn't, He didn't. He was like, I'm going to move. He's like, Avasachi got this. I got to kind of laid it out. Then I showed him the season six campaign. I showed him Paris Hilton and this and that. It's like we're about to drop this and we was doing musical Rocky. But he knew he's going to leave Banton at that time because he did System magazine. System Magazine is an LVMH magazine, and whenever they're about to prep up, you know, a new talent, they put him on System

Magazine just to kind of put it in the ethos. Yeah, you know, this is who we're gonna you know, we're gonna put here. Um as far as getting the job or taking the job or is it cool? Yeah, bro, like it's a cool job to have. They got that platform, they got thousands of stores, they got you know resources. You know, I've met with ERMZ you know, uh maybe a year and a half prior to that, I met with banar Or. No. We had to deal, you know,

on the table that we shook on. I did some performances that they museum, and then three months later the deal got dropped at the board. And that that set me back in apparel a bit when that happened, because in order for me to even negotiate the deal, just after I did Season one with Adidas, I had to go to Adidas and say, Okay, I know we had the best fashion show all this, but Louis Vatton is gonna back you know Yeasy in the Kanye West company, and these guys are masters of clothes, so I need

you to ademnify the pail. I got to paperwork on it, and Adidas say like, all right, okay, cool, We're cool. We just do to choose. So if you know this, ever since then, there's never been Adidas Yeasy clothing. So when I did so, this happened right after the fashion show in February. I met Ubanara No in February. We shook our hands on the deal and then you know, his son called me and they said, you know, it's dropped at the board. We don't think it's going to

be profitable before we run out of money. They only wanted to, you know, invest thirty million into it. You need to invest at least one hundred million when you're making a new brand, only thirty millions. I know that was a stunt at the lebrity talking to um, but people need to get higher ceilings, and shit, we got to talk with the ceiling. This is diddy talk, you know what I mean, This is what Calibi talking about. This is that you know. So when they pulled on

the deals. I went into season two, we didn't have any production partner in the collection ever went to market the first collection when Thedidas had lineups, and there was nothing to fall back on on the second collection due to that negotiation. So the hurtful part of it was that's why okay, that makes sense, that's why you never seen no clod. So the hurtful part was they agreed to support my clothing and guess who was one of my designers, Virgil. Then they didn't do the deal, and

where didn't have anything to do? Would you say Virgil didn't have anything to do technically? Yeah, I mean he was doing all flight but um, you know, at that time we had our designers for Virgil Don Jerry fear God, Demna demla Is ahead of Laiaga. Demna was in the apartment. It's me, Virgil Jerry in this apartment one by one making season one. I wore this big sweatshirt vet my sweatshirt.

I remember, you know something people say vetterment right and then oh, you know, shortly after it's not because I want a sweatshirt either. But shortly after Dimna went to Blanciaga and now Virgils you know, how Louis va tom

So transitions in life. You know, as a as a business owner, these things are hurtful, you know when you have like you you're working with a talent like Demna, You're working with a talent like Virgil, and you know, somebody comes through and says, Bam, I'm gonna take Virgil, I'm gonna take culture. Explain to me because I don't know nothing about fashion. Yeah, so why would Virgil leave a brand that seems to be successful off White? It seems to be growing. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Why would you leave that brand to go work for a Louis Vuitton, a brand that's already established? Like, why wouldn't you pull your resources and try to make off White that next high end luxury brand? Because off White has five ten stories, Thluiver times two thousand stores. It's like taking the job as a president. You know, you know Trump, you see Trump's name on all type of buildings,

but he still took the job as president. You have like you know, there's conversations about a creative director role for me at Adidas. It's like, okay, I got my brand? Is this billion dollars brand's unicorn company's growing. But to be able to go and be able to direct Adidas at all those stores is a you know, it's another conversation. I'd be you know, I'd be open to the conversation of taking a job like that. But how did that

help Chicago though? Because, like you said, you become president, so now you over two thousand stores as opposed the focusing on this one. Does that help off white girl? Any? Hell? Yeah? Christ Off White went up soon as he went to Louis Batton. OK. Yeah, not the price with the value of it, the validation of it, because Louis Baton, Louis Vuttan is the you know, Erman's is really the top

luxury house. When they call luxury houses like anybody knows about luxury anybody Bernard will say Erma is the top luxury house. Family owned all that. Why do we only need validation from white people, all rich people? Because our cape got taken away when he was three years old. We're broken, We're in the simulation. We want our BMW, we want our house that we want to pay all our money for the house. We want to buy this dress for our wife. We want to do this. We

want to get our kids in school, we want. We want this, you know, this championship trophy, we want this jewelry, We want all these different things. Like people, we not monks were in the simulation. We end it. You know what I'm saying. I can't talk nobody out of wearing Groucci. And you know this is me. I had to come out to the other side of the hospital and you know, have like a Russell sweatshirt on or something like that.

It's me, like people be calling me like homeless all the time, but like this is my confidence where I don't wear branding like that and put words but like absomnia too, so I can. But everyone like they have to have that confidence. Like when I see when I see branding, I see insecurity, you know, I see and I see people buying you know, buying security, you know, buying get back through a brand, you know, protection of badge.

Don't don't mess with me in high school, I guess supremot, you know, the just to put the agenda for a second of easy and of what we're doing out is our mission and what we fought for is to be able to take the best talents in the world and you know land that price point which we haven't done yet. But that's what's interesting about this interview. I like you get to see the steps. You know, it's like when you see early Jeff Bezos, you know he gona be

Jeff Bezos. Oh, it's just like he's standing from a warehouse. But we're not interested in the concept of high fashion. You know, the concept of luxury. I'm changing the idea of luxury. I think luxury is space. I think luxury is time is a luxury. Friends are a luxury. Getting your vision out as a luxury. The ability to afford something is the luxury. Not to not able to afford it, to go in and be like, oh I can afford this, that's the luxury. That's the yea. Everybody fell in love

with them that Yeah, who was so human? They ain't who cared about things bigger than brands. You know, like you talking about family and now here you talking about friends, here you talking about time. Those are something we all have. Those are valuables that we all possessed, regardless of you know, what our finances are. Yeah, and that's the thing that we had to crack the code. The reason why we went into fashion wasn't to stay there or be there

or just do you know who high priced stuff. It was actually to take the incredible HSP highly sensitive people that usually end up in a fashion house and bring them to someplace where they could consistently connect with the public. Easy eventually will be, you know, closer to like a relief company if there's like a disaster. We're gonna dress you know, We're gonna bring clothes and water. You know, the same design perspective that can sell a three hundred

dollars T shirt. We're just gonna give it. And eventually that's who will be. You'll look up five ten years from now and Easy will be the biggest service provider of apparel. And one by one, every year, we're gonna take one, two, three, ten people that would have normally ended up in the fashion house, would have went to Nike, would have went other places, and we're going to Calabasas. We're building factories as dope, you know, as dope. You know,

I'm sitting there listening to you're talking. You know, I feel like Kanye from four years ago would have taken a job at the fashion house. I don't feel like the Kanye I'm talking to right now would take that job. At the fashion house. I am in too good of a position to take a job where I have to be away for my wife and my son and my daughters. That just don't make no sense. For what family is your most important currency. I got a cousin that the Florida I flew out here. I'm trying to get as

much family as close to me as possible. That's one of the reasons why Kim won't end up in a hospital. She had a family close. Do you feel like you're in a position to change things now with y'all, like really change things? I always was, you know, it's my place in the universe. I've just been distracted. I've been distracted and manipulated, and I allow things that you know, my Mama made me to never be manipulated and gangstered

and pimped and all that type of ship. But somehow, stepping into the music industry, it happened, you know, Like, the music industry is set up for you to have just enough money to afford a car, pay for your kids, a house, and be on tour for the rest of your life till you die. It ain't set up for you to literally go buy an album Island like feel Knight, it ain't set up for the artists to win. It's like boxing. You know, more, more people end up retarded than rich. Do you feel like when you was in

debt did contribute to your lack of us Nah? I'm glad that you said that because that lets me. That makes me think, like the answer, money is what made him feel confident. Nah. That's why I tweeted that because I knew I had to power. That's why I tweeted Mark Duckerberg and I tweeted the debt. The reason I tweeted to Mark Zuckerberg's because he wanted to meet with me, and my hung out with him a few times and

I got respect for him. And but when I was talking about my ideas, there was really like not a lot of follow up to that. And I always see these um these guys they'll go and support a guy that's got like one idea that they can capitalize off of. And then you get a guy that's proven and like done the impossible in every single field he's ever put

his mind to. And I'm like, yo, help me get a valuation right for my company, and it would be people who know how to do that, and I'm hanging with them, right and they don't show me how to do that, and it's like, why are you keeping me misinformed? I felt like learning the valuation of just even the company and what I built was like a slave getting a social Security number. It's like, I got my rights. I know I'm worth this much. And everyone in Hollywood

knows exactly who Yay is. Every agent, anybody they know Yay is Jay in the hospital, on stage, rant, in debt, or with a billion dollar company. Like the spirit is here and the only thing that can hold me back is a lack of information. But information is harder define, and you think it's secret codes. Like even when jay Z gave a little bit of codes on four there's people I know that tweeted or we're texting each other like he's giving colds away, he's giving information. But it's like, yo,

this is open source. Yeah. I like. I like because because Elon Musk could be like, yo, here's all my plans, but he's the only one that could pull it off. I just you know, we work hard on that color pale right now. I just tweeted it today, like yo, because it's fire. You know what I'm saying? I'm sure there's gonna be some people that copy it one by one.

That's great the ideas out there. You're hanging out with people and you're saying, I want to do all these things, and it's just not taking you seriously and it keeps you in a position to be you know, managed in a way. So my my last and final manager of Scooter Braun right, I've had every manager ge Robertson, Jay Brown is easy. You just parted. What was that about? I just can't be managed? But was dope about Scooter though, at the end of the day, for you really gotta

give him his props. Is one thing is he has his parents, adopted a black child. His brother's black. So this is a Jewish guy who understands business, understands all this, but also understands how to communicate, you know, on a personal level or a black person, like on a brother level. So me and Scooter would just getting on the phone and we talked to me for hours, and that information meant everything. He was mine, let me third person. He

was Kanye West, Gateway drug to business. Because before that it was always like you were artists, you were a rapper. We love you for the music. Hey, don't don't think about nothing, don't think about business, blah blah blah blah blah.

And I would just you know the thing we was talking about before when we talk about Obama and Trump in then other room we talk about trust me like that, I would just trust trust the manager, Let them do everything, them handle everything, let them handle you know, let them hire your business manager or this and that, and you get a manager or manager, home manager, and then it becomes one big racket where it's like the tour guy is talking to the label guy is talking to the manager,

is talking to the guy that sold you the house, and talk to you baba. And then you're just trapped. You don't you're not in control of your life anymore. And at that point you could be easily manipulated. You know, a whole album with Paul McCartney can end up becoming a single for Rihanna because you know, you're trapped in this box of the idea of your perception music industry

this at that. So the funny thing I was I knew I wanted to say in this situation is like Scooter Braun is Kanye West, Kanye West gateway drug to business and maybe the death of the music industry as we know it. Really, Yeah, why because artists are businesses. We're not just artists. Artists shouldn't have managers, Artists should have CEOs. That's how I feel. I didn't put no thought on that. You know, it's like you know says a lot of people is going to have a problem

with that statement. I'm gonna say how I feel. So that means, Okay, how many kids are going to business school right now? Warden Harvard. You think they like, let's sake, somebody Travis Scott, right, they probably listened to his music. Oozy somebody like that? Right? How many Uzi's and Travis Scott's are there? And how many business people are there? Right, I'm gonna think it's probably less Travis Scotts and Oozies

than there are business people. So when you think of Travis Scott would deserve the same amount of employees as Dropbox in his first year. So that's some day he can ipo for ten billion, like my friend Drew just did with Dropbox, but with artistry an artist. What's the point where you ipl everyone want to talk to me about getting out? I'm out this to get out yeah, we didn't. That was a three sixty dealt The three sixty deal kind of like the label saying we recognize

artists as a business. Now now we want a piece of all of their business. Three sixty deal make me think that Harriet Tubman on a twenty dollars bill. It's still some old slave ship. So all this is yours? Yeah, yes, sir, And what you're gonna do with it? I'm gonna build five properties, So it's my first community. I'm getting into development. I'm super Anybody has ever been to any of my cribs knows I'm super into developing homes. It's just the

next frontier for me to develop. So that's why you design it boots and ships so you can do the hiking. Yeah see you got you got the Nikes. Shit have the easy boots and Nike's just trashed for hiking. But listen, it's crazy though, because you got this whole plan, three hundred acres of land, you want to build a community on it. Why does the Kanye West don't need nobody? So that goes back to what we were talking about with with Trump. You don't need to meet with Trump.

You you yay, you didn't had a state of your own ship. Yeah, I feel that, you know. But I love real change. I love, you know, challenging the norm. I love. I love people who don't love them. I love the fact that they're speaking up and everybody's just giving their opinions, everybody's expressing themselves. I love. I love that I've been waiting. I's like I've been waiting for

this moment in time. It's just like a yay moment in time and stuff when people are you know, my dad is an activist, and you know, my my mom's activists, who's in marches and stuff. I feel like that energy all coming to a head. You know. Now, I refused to believe that your mother would love Donald Trump. Hmm,

I got have difference opinion from my mom. True. True, But what about when you see like, because you know, it's people that's watching this right now and they're like, yo, you know Donald Trump is getting our family deported, and you know, like especially you right now, you've got this whole economic empowerment thing going on, but you got a guy like him who's clearly trying to marginalize and oppress people people that look like you. You don't want to

see people like you come up. Can you still love a person like that? Hm? I don't. I don't have all the answers that a celebrity is supposed to have, but I could tell you that when he was running, it's like I felt something. It's like the fact that he won, it's like it proved something. It proved that anything is possible in America, that Donald Trump could be president of America. I'm not talking about, you know, what he's done since he's been in office, but the fact

that he was able to do it. Like, remember I said I was going to run for president. I had people that was close to me, friends of mine, like making jokes, making memes, talking shit, And now it's like, oh, that was proven that that could have happened. Yeah, So

I get what you're saying. I felt the non conventional, you know what I mean, even from what we're doing in fashion, to me being a kid with the pink polos, to me being outspoken, to me being ostracized because the de Tailor Swift thing or the George Bush thing, or you know who I'm dating, who I'm marrying, and I'm talking about like all of this is like an outsider thing. You know. So when I see an outsider infiltrate, I

connect with that. So maybe that's what you like the idea, Yeah, not necessarily the idea of Donald Trump with the idea of an outside of infiltrating. Yeah, I like that. It showed you that anything it's possible, shows you that it doesn't even like Virgil working at Louis Vuitton, Trump being in office, it's a time for the unconventional. I'm very I'm not a traditional thinker. I'm a nonconformist, you know. So that relates to the nonconformist part of me now,

you know. But I'm also I'm a producer. I like to segue things. I like to take otis chop it up through it like this. So what's the a version. The a version of be the Trump campaign and maybe the Bernie Sanders principles. That would be my mix and stuff. But I think both had you know, you know, I needed you know, I hit the glass ceiling. Have you ever seen a bird flying to a window. They don't know it's glass. That was me when I hit that hospital.

That was a bird flying into the window. And you know I could have, you know, not made it out of it. But I survived and ship. But it's um are you scared of that happening again? You haven't a breakdown or breakthrough? Nah? Nah, I'm happy it happened. I'm happy to see have gone to the other side and back.

You know, there's some things when it happened. I do want to I want to speak on I want to point out the moment when you're in the hospital bed and you're next to your friend and you tell them don't let this person leave my side, and they put you inside of an elevator and take all your friends away from you. That was the scariest moment of my life. Was gonna drug you or kill you. I was gonna get killed. And you know, my wife wasn't in town. So I told my boy Don and my boy's ky like,

don't leave my side until my wife gets here. And they have this moment where they're forced to leave your side. That's something that has to change, you know. It's like if a pregnant woman is, you know, delivering a baby, guarantee whoever the people, her sisters, the dad, they get to stay next to them till the baby is delivered. Not leave my wife in that situation. Yeah, HSP you you are paranoid to everything. You don't believe nothing. You

just seeing through all of the simulation. Everybody's phony, everybody's an actor, all the ship and then they make your friends, the only people you believe in, leave your side. I can't express to you like how traumatizing that moment is. And then you waked up. Drugg the fuck out? Did they? So they put you on medication? Yeah? Are you still on any now? Almost? Definitely what they got you on. I ain't gonna say does the medication help? You don't? I mean, you don't want to tell us what it is,

but does it help? Um? It's an imperfect solution. You can just calm me down, But there's a lot of ways to calm down, do we I don't want calm ye? Yeah? Well you the calm ya for v Y. You know, don't you feel like that ticked a little bit of your superpower away? Though? All this power and being controlled and calm you know, X men really understanding how to really use his uh power or Superman? That's me. This is like, what's the Kryptonite has gone? I got the

confidence everything is possible. Building Acres Wraps Stadium tours, designs, companies ideas to ignite the next generations, like everything is possible, you know, And I'm just a vessel and that's my job in the universe as a servant to the world. I have to be me. I'm not as good as a servant if I'm not. Yay you are ya though almost definitely you know you are yea. And I mean like that's why I kept asking, like, well, first, let's

talking about something that I know. It's therapeutic for your music. Yeah, I'm looking at all of this, this wild outdoors, this wilderness. Is that why you went to Waywomen? Yeah, you know for what I'm doing And I played you some of the music and you see where I'm going. Yeah, I want to create music that's therapeutic, you know, like I feel real friends, was in the in the territory of what we're creating. Do you feel like the lifestyle out of your your your wife, the mother in law, like

that whole family. Do you think that plays a role and how you were feeling like did it get to be too much because you're already a superstar, but then you take that superstar element and add it and it is just like when do you have privacy. It seemed like paparazzi is always around. Yeah, paparazzi. It can't stress you out, But it's all in the inner piece that you can find. You said you don't trust people. Do

you trust? Do you trust your in laws? Because it seem you know, we look at the world and it seems like everything is the storyline. Do you trust that they won't turn your life and what you're going through to a storyline? Ah, and you know, of course I'm gonna give you a slick answer on that because you gotta go home, but your fast. But uh like, right now, we're writing part of the story just by even doing this and speaking. I like the way that my wife

communicates it. Documents things, you know, as an artist, you know, I think it's good to document ourselves, document are now see if we could recognize ourselves again in a different light, in a different life, what would um? What would what would college drop out? Kanye? He was looking at pictures of Kanye, Now what would he say? I think he'd be happy, satisfied, and he would believe it. You know how people saying I wouldn't believe it. I always believed.

I always know what it is. You know this documentation right now, this is just the age forty. This is a version of a college drop out. Yeah, we're standing on my first property. Yeah, so I'm gonna be one of the biggest real estate developers of all time. Like some what Howard Hughes was to aircraft and what Henry Ford was to cars, and just the relationships that I have with architects, my understanding of like space and sacred proportions.

Just this vibe, this new vibe, this new energy. Like I'm tired of the mc mansion's all the Spanish roof homes and stuff like that, like that shit whack bro, Like everybody house whack. It's trash bro. I don't go to except for lessons like a Howard back In or something. It's like the one of the few architects that I liked their homes. I was gonna ask you, what's next, because yeah, he's always predicted what he was going to be.

So that's what that's that's the goal. Yeah, We're going to develop cities.