Wake that ass up. In the morning the Breakfast Club yeps, well, the most Dangerous Morning to show to Breakfast Club Shawla, the God Jess Hilarious. DJ Nvy is off to day, but we got a special guest in the building, the host of Tommy Lauren is Fearless on OutKick dot Com. Tommy Lauren is here. Good morning.
Thank you for having me. It's been a long time coming. So I'm so happy that you had me, and I hope that we can have a nice discussion. I love the dialogue. As you know, I'm.
Supposed to be here. Back in the day, day, way back in the day, was the same day when you and Trevor Nolan everybody.
Gives the day after the Daily Show the situation slash debacle slash milestone. I guess we'll call it that.
Oh, Tommy, are you a racist?
I sure am not. Yeah, thank you for asking, though, I appreciate just coming in hot just right off the bat. But I'm glad we could clear that up and then now we can move forward. There we go. You get that off, you know, not so much anymore. Okay, Yeah, that the time of me being accused of that has dissipated. But you know, hey, listen, I appreciate the question. I'm an open book and I hope after our time together you will see that for yourself. But thank you for asking what have you.
Been up to? That was a question that people were asking. They was like, you know, where's Tommy.
Lauren been doing my thing? You know, doing my thing on Fox. We've been through a couple elections since you and I last spoke. This one went more my direction, I would say, as the last one did. When we know we're talking. Previously, during Trump Edmund one and you and I talked about, you know, if you would be open to seeing what the president had to offer. And you know, now we've got a few years separating that and now, and I'm personally I'm happy with with everything that's happening.
So really honest assessment.
Now, I promise you this. If there comes a time where this administration does something that I don't like, I'm happy to say it. And I don't know if you've seen over the years, but I've taken a beating for going against the right, and I was fire for going against the right. I think that was pre though, Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I have no problem doing that if I see an issue, I'll say it. I don't play for a team.
I don't work for the Trump administration. If they do something I don't like, I'm happy to say, all right, that's not my thing. Right now, I'm happy we'll see you. Know, we're a few months in.
Well, you were fired from the Blaze after saying you support a woman's right to choose. Did that moment did you not realize in that moment that the movement that you promote doesn't really allow true freedom of thought, because that's what it feels like. It doesn't feel like they allow true freedom of thought, all freedom of speech.
Well, I'll tell you this. That particular network didn't like it, but the network i'm at now definitely supports my right to free speech. Yeah, there were a lot of people on the right. They didn't like that I said that. I'm someone who really believes in freedom. I don't like
government intervention. So when I said I was pro choice, it was hey, listen, I'm personally pro life, but I don't like the government telling people what to do in that regard, and I don't think the government fills that need. I really don't. I think that's a place for family and faith and community to come in during that time. That's hard for women. I don't think the government does it well. So I don't think the government should impede. And I was very forthright about that. Some people didn't
like that, and that's okay. But I got eviscerated for that, you know, and I had to go through a battle with a network for that. But that's why when I say I don't play for a team, I don't play for a side. I'm happy to take the hits from my side. If I believe in something, I'm going to say it. So the left of the right, I mean, I'm kind of a punching bag for both. And that's okay with me.
Do you feel like a president should uh hold the Constitution?
Oh? Absolutely their duty.
Yes. So when you see him on Meet the President, he's asked that question. President Trump, he's asked that question and he says, I don't know. You can't be happy with that.
Well, to be fair, when he was asked that question, it was regarding illegal immigration and what his administration's abilities are. Now that's gonna end up being decided by the Supreme Court. We don't have those decisions yet. But to say he's just not upholding the concert Institution. He's saying, well, the lawyers are going to tell me how far I can go. So I respect him when he says that, he's not
saying nope, I know the answer. He's saying, Listen, this is going to play out judicially, it's going to play out legislatively, it's going to play out. But I'm going to do what I can to protect the sovereignty of our nation and our borders. And we had an invasion in his mind and in my mind, and we have to correct that, and the voters voted largely to correct that. So he when he said that about the Constitution, he wasn't saying, ah, I don't know. He was saying, listen,
it's going to play out. But then I respect that.
There is actual due process language in the Constitution though, yeah to mecause everybody does have the right to do process.
To me, there's a gray area there, and it depends on what we're talking about. So the position the president has in my position is this, it's a privilege to be in our country. And there were millions of people who came into our country and they said, I don't want to follow a process to get in, but now I want a different process in order for you to remove me. And what thiseman is is saying, and what many Americans, including myself feel, is, listen, you need to
follow our laws. You did not follow our immigration laws, so there's going to be a different process for you than an American citizen. And if two immigration courts say you're gang affiliated, if you've beaten your wife and you have protective orders filed against you, if you're accused of trafficking people around this country, which is a major issue human trafficking and sex trafficking, then you no longer have
the privilege of being in this country. And by the way, you also came in illegally, So the whole due process conversation, that's where I stack up on that. Now, Listen, I don't believe people should just be rounded up with, you know, just because they see you and they say, oh, get out of here. But if you came to this country legally, you aren't up for deportation. You came here.
Illegally, yes, but the still says you're allowed to process. Now, I'm not even saying that I disagree with you know that stance. I'm just saying you still have to abide by what the constitution says.
But why did nobody take any issue during the Obama administration when he deported three million people without that due process of yes, you're in here illegally. Yes the court says you're here illegally, but we're going to deport you because you're in the country illegally. There was no extra due process for those three million under Obama, and nobody
had an issue with it. So now my question is, why now is there another level of due process besides an immigration court saying you're here illegally, you have a notice to be deported.
I've always asked that question as to my knowledge that those people that because Obama deported more more people than any president ever, but those people still were deported, you know, via due process, Like they didn't just grab them and say, hey, what's shipping you off the announce ound.
No, but an immigration court said yes, you're up for deportation. But the Obama administration didn't give them this extra due process or you get a trial, or you get but if you go through the courts, that's due process exactly, an immigration court, which that's what President Trump is also doing. It's not just oh, they've never been in front of an immigration judge.
The guy from Maryland didn't go go go through due process.
Two courts actually not only said that he was gang affiliated. The local PD said he's gang affiliated. A informant says he's gang affiliated.
But that has nothing to do with due process all that.
But two courts already said you're gang affiliated and you're an illegal immigrant. I mean, there's no dispute that he's an illegal immigrant, and there's no dispute that the courts say he's gang affiliated.
But that has nothing to do with his due process. I'm with you, but that has nothing to do with his due process. That just means that he has committed some crimes, but he's still allowed due process. And I think that's where a lot of Democrats are getting caught up in. They're so focused on defending his character or what he may or may not have done, But we should just be talking about the due process that has allowed people within the constitution.
So do you want him to go in front of another immigration judge? Then I guess that's my question, is that he's been in front of immigration judges. He's in the country illegally and has been for many many years. Right, not only came to this country illegally, but then since then you have protective orders against you. Your wife says she's scared of you. You're wife's ex husband said, Hey, I'm worried about my kids because my ex wife is dating a gang member. And you got caught on bodycam
footage allegedly trafficking people across my state of Tennessee. So at some point, it's like, how much more? How many more judges need to say this cat needs to leave?
And I would also ask this, there are Americans who are accused of being gang members all the time, and I feel that they get less benefit of the doubt than someone who came to this country legally, and that should infuriate Americans that there are people sitting in jail right now who I feel probably get less attention, less advocacy, and they're riding in jail than someone who came to our country legally and then continued to break our laws
and endanger people. So that's my perspective. And then I get what you're saying about the due process.
I understand that's literally the only conversation. I'm not saying that he shouldn't even you know, I'm not saying that he should not be deported. I'm just simply saying he should have to go through due process. That's it. I think that. You know, the people like just keep saying, well, he committed this crime. He committed that crime that has nothing to do with the due process that he's allowed within the constitution. What do you think about Donald Trump
taking the plane? Constitution also says you can't do that either.
That's another again, that's another great area. I'm not a lawyer, is that well, because here's the deal, I understand and I'm not. I'm not fully saying I even support it. I see the present position. Hey, if they're going to give us this plane, otherwise taxpayers are going to pay for it. We need a new air Force one and they don't have it ready for us. They were supposed to have it ready for us. They don't have it
ready for us. If Katar is willing to give us this plane and it can save us some money, maybe we should do it. Save the people some money. Donald Trump doesn't look at things like a typical politician. He looks at it like maybe your average person would say, hey, you're gonna give me this and I don't have to
pay for it. Okay, I'll take it. And I understand there are many people on prohibits that there are many people on my side of the aisle who also agree with you, Like, hey, what are they getting in return? And I need to know that as well. So I'm not saying that I don't. I'm just like, yes, take the plane. I would prefer you didn't, But I understand.
Do you prefer he didn't tell me?
I don't want to be beholden to potentially hostile nations in the.
Middle least, And you know it's unconstitutional.
I understand your point on that. I don't know if I don't know if it is unconstitutional, it is.
The US Constitution prohibits, it's it's textbook unconstitutional. All I want, regardless of party, is a president who upholds the Constitution at all times.
Do you feel like President jow Biden did that?
Uh? No, probably not in all cases. But that's why I said, regardless of the party, I want a president who upholds the Constitution at all times. I don't think the Constitution should be flexible.
Yeah, well, you know there are some on the left that want the Constitution to be flexible when it comes to the Second Amendment and you know, other parts of the Constitution. So some people say it's a living document. It changes with the times. Other people say, listen, it's the original intention. And I think there are times where we probably agree on different points and disagree on others. I take your point, though, about the plane, I'm not
cheering for like, I'll be honest about that. I'm like, hey, if we can avoid that, let's let's avoid that. Let's just not even go into the gray area. I would prefer that. But I see the President sees it as let's save some money for the American people. I think he really does care about that. I really do believe that he sees things like a business and that's his perspective on it. And I think that he appreciates the gesture. But I don't. I don't love it.
It's still unconstitutional and it could be a national security ASKM.
I understand that I don't disagree with you on that point.
It could the plans probably, but it could be a bomb all we know.
I'm I don't disagree with you on that point. I would need to know more as well.
Is that you get a grandchout of immigrants.
Well, I think most of us are grandchildren of immigrants.
Yeah, because because you said, America's just stop being a dumping ground for other countries' problems, right, correct, So at what point did your family's journey stop being noble and start being disposable to you?
Well? Point take and what you're trying to do with that. So here's my thing. We are a nation of immigrants. We once had a process for it, and then it became a free for all. We have to know who's coming into our country, the days of coming into this country, and we can agree to disagree on who came in and how they came in, and I'm happy to have
the conversation. But when my family or my lineage came into this country, they didn't come into this country and they didn't get a four horse hose, our hotel room, they didn't get all their meals paid for. They didn't get lodging and health care and schooling and everything that the legal immigrants that are coming in now are afforded, and they're sucking up the resources from people who really
need it. It's really hard for people like me and on my side to rationalize and I think many people that don't have a party affiliation to rationalize importing millions and millions of people into this country, allowing them to use all of our services and allowing them to stay even though they didn't follow the process to get here. So that's the point. We want immigrants. There's nothing saying we don't we need immigrants. We need them, we love them,
we need them, we need a process. We do it right, just do it the right way. And if we didn't have so many that came in the wrong way, we could allow more people to come in the right way. And we want to foster that. And I don't think President Trump is anti immigrant. He's married to an immigrant, you know, Jade Vance is married to someone who's come from a family of immigrants from India. Like, we're not
anti immigrant, just come the right way. And it's really hard when I see the people in New York City or the people in Chicago or in la and you see people that are struggling that they can't afford their daily life, and then you see illegal aliens in a force our hotel and you see them getting their needs taken care of, and you see Americans falling by the wayside.
You want to see me. Pushed back on that one, I agree with that you are.
Often classified as like controversial, that's how people describe you. How much is that of that is intentional or in how much of it is really you standing on business of what you believe in.
I would say I'm much like you two in that regard. I don't go out of my way to be controversial. There are a lot of people that have found this new media and on the right that they say things to be controversial, and they say things to get attention. I don't do that. I really just have a perspective and I'm happy to say it, and it's meaningful to me and it's well thought out. I don't just say things. I think about it and I say it and then I stand by it. But I don't say things just
to be controversial. And I like having conversations with people. I really do. I really do believe that most of us in this country want what's best for this country. We have different ways of going about it, but this is America. That's why we talk. And for too long we just didn't talk to each other. And I think now the barriers are starting to be broken down in that regard, and I'm really happy to see.
That is your bolton. Do you feel like your boldness is mis understood sometimes?
Sometimes I think maybe less over the years because I've taken so many hits from the right. Maybe you know there are people that will no matter what, they will stand up for Mega and Trump and whatever, and they will stand up for the side and they will die in the hill of the side. I don't do that, and I think that that lacks integrity when people do it.
Happy if people disagree with me on either side, because at least you know that what I'm saying is actually what I feel and you cannot like it, but it's not something that I'm saying to just bat for somebody. So I hope that at least there's some respect for that, and I think that there is now, and I think things are changing, and I think that podcasting and more people having platforms has added to that, which I'm happy to see.
I want to go back to the immigration thing real quick, Like this is a hypothetical question, like you know, the legal immigration process can take like twenty plus years. Sometimes would you wait that long if your children were, say, fleeing a cartel of violence or war, right, you know what I mean.
So I understand your point, and I really do empathize with anybody who doesn't live in the US that wants to get here. This is the greatest nation on the face of the earth, and I understand that. Now, the part about immigration and illegal immigration is this those people that are coming out of this country. When you're seeking genuine asylum or you're an actual refugee. First of all, you got to show up to your asylum hearings, and you got to show up. Ninety plus percent don't that's
a problem. But coming here because you want better economic opportunities, that's not asylum. And many people that have come over in the last four years they want better economic opportunities, and I don't fault them for that, but that's not asylum.
I would also say this, if you're coming over because you're fearful of your government, or you're in a war torn country, or you're in a country that's run by cartels, paying those cartels, then to smuggle you into our country does not help your country, because you don't come over here without paying a cartel. You're paying ten thousand, fifteen thousand, twenty thousand, and if you're a special interest alien who's
coming for nefarious purposes. You're paying more, so you're not helping your country if you're coming from Honduras or Guatemala or Nicaragua and you're funding the very organization that's destroying your country. So that's why we have to get a grip on it for a lot of reasons. I want those countries to thrive. They're never going to thrive if people are paying the very organizations that are destroying them.
What about people who are fleeing those countries just because they want a better life. You have cos empathy for an inlet, of course, I have.
Empathy for everybody. But there's still a process, because there's no reason that somebody should go through the process and pay a lot of money legitimately and wait five or ten years because they want to be an American so badly and then watch someone skip over them.
But you can understand if the process is literally life or death. Depending on his process's life or death. I got to get my kids out of here now, I got to get out of here now. My whole family's going to die.
Yeah, well, that's why we have the asylum process, and that's what it's intended for. Unfortunately, so many people have taken advantage of it that the people that need it, they're the ones that fall through the cracks, the ones that are like, hey, I really am fleeing this. My family is in danger. That's why we have asylum. But when you have people coming over here and lying about it, you can't have that. And that's what we experienced in
the last four five years. And it's unfortunate because all that does is hurt the people that need it the most. And that's where I stand on that issue, and I have empathy for everybody. By the way, it's not a matter of I don't like you, I don't want you here. It's just follow the process so that we can have a process, because why would anybody wait in line if they can just do it the wrong way. That's really the point we're trying to get at.
You do have empathy with Angel The other day, I think I think she's a First of all, I think she is a hater.
That's okay, like maybe we're all haters. I think that she deeply hates Kaitlin Clark, And I.
Think did you feel that before three said no?
Oh yes, excuse me? So I've seen it since way back in the college days. They don't like each other, right, I think Caitlin Clark doesn't display if she doesn't like her dislike for Angel Rees. I don't think Caitlin Clark displays it. I think Angel Rees, I think she likes to be the villain too. You know, it works and it works well, I don't. Well, maybe it works for you too. I mean, I think that Angel hates Kaitlin Clark, and it's okay.
She is such a strong word. Why can't it just be competitive? Like we don't I can't think of too many times we've said that with guys, you know what I mean, Like they hate each other just because they're super competitive on the court.
Well, I think that there's always been a rivalry and a feud in sports and in boxing and all of this. But I think when you see Angel reason the way she reacts to specifically Caitlin Clark, I think it's hard to dispute that she dislikes Caitlin Clark. And it's okay if she does, Like, you're not gonna like everybody.
Well, last night the Fever played. I think they played the Atlanta Dream. What did the dream let me make sure it was the dream. I just know her and Ryan Howard got it was a dream. I think, so, yeah, it was a dream. And she got into it with Ryan Howard and they had words back and forth and they had to hold Ryan back and Caitlyn said, I'm not scared of you. That's just competitive nobody. There's no
narrative this morning that Ryan hates Caitlin. I just think it's the rivalry thing between Caitlyn and Angel and we're just not used to seeing that in women's basketball.
We're not. And maybe it's good for the sport. It's bringing eyes to it. So finally women get you know, women I have been dumped on, in my opinion for the last five years and had sports hijacked, and they've you know, they they haven't had their their due, and now they're being talked about. So you know what, if Angel Reese is playing it up to get eyeballs, good for her speaking.
Of that, because you know, we just talked about both of us being villains. Do you have a worry that your brand depends more on outrage than solutions?
No? No, maybe early on we evolve, We all evolve. I think I don't think any more people would say that about me. Maybe some would, maybe you would, but I don't think so anymore. I don't try to outrage people. I just have conversations and I say things that I'm thinking, and not everybody likes it, but welcome to what we do for a living. You know, if you have an opinion and you stand by it, there are gonna people that don't like it. But I don't think I do
it to outrage people. And I also, to my side, I don't do it to appease people either. So I think we're all probably in that boat in doing what we do.
We'll not find interesting about conservative media, especially the people they call conservative fire brands. They do offer solutions, it's just that the solutions you usually offer calls outreage because people don't agree with the which said solutions. So what do you say to that, Well.
On the other side, wouldn't it be the same thing, Yes, yeah, So I think it's it's both ways. People are not going to like the way you go about things every time. That's why we have two different parties and we have a party in the middle. Nobody's gonna like everything Democrats do or Republicans do. Someone's gonna be mad, But it's better to do something than to do nothing. And I
think that's my whole thing with the Trump administration. People might not like what he's doing, but he ran on it and he's doing exactly what he said he was going to do, and you might not like it, but he's not doing anything different than what he's explicitly said, I'm going to do this, and now he's doing it. And the status call wasn't working. People were not happy with it, So maybe we're going to do something different
and people aren't gonna like it. But I think the worst thing is just doing nothing at all.
But there was a lot of people who said he never really do these things, like he would never implement, you know, these tariffs, he would never do these mass depotations. Like there was literally people who would hear him say these things and didn't say, no, he's not really going to do that.
They didn't learn the first time that he's gonna donna what he said he's gonna do.
When somebody shows you who they are, believed him.
Yeah, And some people don't like it, but I like it. I like the fact that I voted for someone and they're doing exactly what they said that they were going to do. When people voted for Joe Biden. I don't think they voted for Joe Biden thinking I'm going to open the borders and allow ten to maybe fifteen million people come into this country unvetted, largely unvetted. I don't
think people would have voted for that. You know, like, be honest if you're going to run on that, and you're like, hey, I respect democrats that are like open the borders, that's what I want. Okay, well, at least people can vote on that, but don't tell me you're going to do something and then do the complete opposite. Joe Biden ran as a moderate. He was anything but moderate,
so he fooled a lot of people. I would argue, Trump's doing exactly what he said, and if you didn't believe him, like, maybe that's on you, But I did you.
Know, you talk about women's rights and you say you support women's rights, but the conservative movement actively works the script reproductive freedom. So what rights do you believe women actually deserve?
Well, I would like women to be able to play their sports without men hijacking them and taking away their accolades and their accomplishments. So it's hard for me when the when the left talks about women's rights and they only want to talk about abortion, but they don't want to talk about women's sports and spaces. We can have both conversations.
I think Wade is way more important women's sports, even though I don't want men playing in women's sports. But I think that a woman's right to choose should always be a woman's right to choose. That shouldn't be scripted away from the well.
Do you notice that the left have been very quiet about Trump's abortion bands since he was elected. Wasn't that the big concern before he was elected is that he was going to take away abortion. I haven't heard anything about that. In fact, there are more abortions now than there were under Roe v.
Wade because people can't afford to have kids cause the Trump.
Four months he's made everything unaccordable. He came in everything, and then four months later everything's gone down.
Those have the economy up, Tommy, we got it. Some things we have to admit because they're right there in our faith.
I say, trust the process on tariffs, and if they don't work, we'll have that discussion.
But how long is the process, like and to your point, you know, Donald Trump and Elon Musk both said there was going to be a lot of pain right because of these things that they were going to implement. But people can't afford that, Like you got sixty percent of the country is living check the check. So how long is this process is going to be? Well a lot of hand I can hand it, but most people can't.
Well, there there is a pause on the tariffs, so we worked out a deal with China. There's going to be more deals to come. Here's my thing. President Trump is saying, we've been getting screwed by the rest of the world, ripped off, and we're not going to get ripped off anymore. So countries are coming to the table and they're going to make deals that are better and they're not going to be one hundred and fifty five percent tariffs. They're going to make deals and then it's
going to be more fair for everybody. We're going to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, which is going to help people right now, the big beautiful bill, no tax on tips, so and extending the Trump tax cuts which benefit eighty percent of Americans. So there are going to be things within this administration, they're going to alleviate some of the short term pain that tariffs would cause.
This president is dedicated to that. I've never seen somebody who cares more about the middle class, working man and woman than President Trump. He is willing to piss off Wall Street, big Pharma, everybody to try to benefit the American people. I respect that, and a lot of people say they're going to do it, and they haven't done it. The prescription drug thing, how many people have told us we're going to get down the price of prescription drugs, and they did not want to piss off big farmers,
so they never did it. And that goes to our members of Congress as well. They never did anything. And Trump said, oh, why are we paying this and this country's paying this when the companies that are making it are in our country. No, we're not doing that anymore. I got to respect that he's looking out for the American people, and that's everybody who's paying way too high prices for prescription drugs.
I would like for all of this stuff to work, but I disagree that he's looking out for the middle class and the working class because he literally tells the middle class and the working class that you know, hey, you're going to have to do it out for a while, and you know your kids are going to have to have less toys. He doesn't say that to the rich at all. The rich kid, big tacitly at Wall Street?
Do your point on tariffs? Like the people that were I understand that there are a lot of people that have their four own case the retirement that we're really worried about Wall Street, But primarily the Wall Street folks that he really pissed off with the tariffs. Those are really wealthy people, so he wasn't afraid to piss them.
I think that's what makes him back off. I think is those people. I think when they get mad at him is when he decided, oh I don't think.
He cares at all. I do. I And when you say the short term pain, I understand what you're saying, but it's the honesty. You know, during the Biden years, they told us it's actually not that bad, the prices actually aren't up, you're actually not struggling, And people were offended by that because they're like, no, we are struggling. President Trump is saying because of these tariffs and me
trying to completely rearrange our economic system. There's going to be some short term pain because other countries are going to try to be big and bold for a few minutes here, but they're going to come to the table because they need us more than we need them. So what he's not saying is like, oh, screw you, I can handle it. You can't. You just pay higher prices. He's saying, let this work, and if we would all join together and let it work. These countries China can't
sustain this trade war. They can't. They need us more than we need them. So he's putting the pinch on them. They will come to the table, and I am very confident we will end up something better than we started with.
For the American people, that sounds good. But when a person has rent due and they can't pay it and they get evicted, what are they going to do? Where are they going to go? Like all of this stuff sounds good, but we're talking about people who have immediate needs that need to be met right now. They can't even afford a little bit of pain, and there's not a relief to, you know, help get through that. While we have to weather this.
Storm right why And I understand that point, and I understand what you're saying, and I think he's doing ever he can to try to help people. I'd also say this the no tax on tips thing, that's going to help a lot of people, No tax on social Security, no tax on overtime. He's doing what he can to say. Listen, I wanted those people that, by the way, didn't start
struggling four months ago. They were struggling for years when we shut down the economy over COVID, and people never really got back up on their feet, and their kids were in remote learning, and people were just struggling to keep their businesses afloat. Nobody was really putting the pressure on the Biden administration. Then when we arbitrarily shut everything down for COVID.
Oh yes, they were. People was out here raising hell.
You think so they got some flying They weren't going and getting their shots and wearing their masks.
No, No, I'm talking about people were raising hell. That's to me, that's one of the reasons that they lost. They lost because they weren't paying attention to what people's everyday need were. They weren't paying attention to what people didn't have in their pocket. That's to me, that's the main reason they lost until your point telling people, hey, everything is fine, the economy is fine because the the stock market is up. The people I'm talking about don't have no stocks.
I agree with you, now, I would also say this, there was such a stress too with millions and millions and millions of people coming into this country. That stress resources. So when you've got homeless shelters being turned into migrant facilities, when you've got migrants staying in the Roosevelt Hotel, and you've got people sleeping on the streets and people, like you said, who can't afford rent and all that, like
that's infuriating. And part of that is these people. I'm sorry, we feel for you, but we've got to feel for our people first, Like we've got to help our people first. And there's a lot of talk about medicaid and social Security and all this and that Trump wants to take all this away. Trump has been very clear, I am not taking this away from people who need it, but the people that are abusing it, oh yeah, they're gonna lose it so that the people that need.
It have it.
There.
I haven't seen them be surgical about stuff like that yet, meaning that you know, they never go in with a fine tooth comb and cut where you know they're supposed to cut. They usually just go in with a chainsaw literally and just start cutting everything. So it's hard for me to believe that they're going to be surgical when it comes to medicaid.
Doesn't it infuriate you though, when people say we're going to start cutting, We're going to cut things we have to, and then nobody has the balls to do it.
I want the right things cut. Like See, that's the thing that even with Dolds, right, we've seen in this country the right way to do what Elon Muskin Dolge was attempting to do, and that was with Bill Clinton in the National Partnership for Reinventing Government in the nineties. They did it the right way. They went in there, they were surgical, They met with other federal workers, people
that worked in the federal government. They met with you know, people who who people who understand understand what was going on in government, and they cut the right things. They didn't just go in and just start firing people.
Yeah. Well, Trump did offer people, hey, listen, if you don't want to come back to work, we'll pay you through September.
That's like taking a chain sort of thing, like you got to be surgical. Like that's why they were cutting things that they need, like they were actually cutting people from the federal government that they need. Like we have a shortage of aviation worker, isn't that.
Well we've had a short of shortage of aviation workers for many, many.
Years and they got worse Underdults.
Well, a lot of the people they were cut and I know Shann Duffy personally, the people that were cut through there. They were not people that are your air traffic controllers, They were not your pilots, they were not people in charge of that. They were extra workers. Now, nobody wants to cut anything, like nobody wants to take
someone's job away. But the fact of the matter is is we are going to go bankrupt unless we cut something, so at least be honest with people, like we got to cut something, and people aren't going to like it, Like some one's gonna lose something. That's just the nature of the beast.
But when you cutch something, they realize, oh, shoot, we actually need those people and try to hire those people back.
That's an f up and you got to you got account for that, and Elon Muskas and I'm I'm not sitting here being an apologist for Elon musk either. By the way, I do think things should be more surgical.
But when there's so much waste, fraud and abuse, and they go in and they look at this and it's like, oh my god, we're walking into the house and it's probably a demo mission here, and you try to just fix one little thing at a time that like this is this is so bad that we might need to shut these entire departments down and we can reinvent them and we can reopen them, but it's so bad right now,
and the drainage is so bad on our resources. We've got to, you know, cut our losses at some point and then we got to figure out what we're gonna do next. But there was so much abuse and people go into concerts and government workers renting out stadiums and caesars and like just getting away with it.
Wait, then they better to measure twice, so you only have to cut once. And once again we have history that's show us this can be done the right way. And that's not a party thing. I'm just simple pointing not that Bill Clinton al gored they did it the right way. Yeah, and Elon even said one time he tweeted, what I'm doing is no different than what Clinton did in the nineties. Not true.
Well, the extent of the waste fraud and abuse in the nineties is not what it is today, so there's a much different beast to tackle. It's gotten considerably worse because people realize they get out of their hand in the cookie jar and no one was looking, so it got way, way worse. I agree with you, though, there does need to be a methodical process. I think that that has in the last month. I think that's been more so the stance. You're not seeing Doge doing what
Doge did on the outside. They came in very zealous and very excited. And I think they've dialed it back because Elon.
Got the fuck out of it because he realized it was affecting his real bility. That's what he's still doing it.
He's just not his outward on it. But I think they've dialed it back.
They named a new president, right, the guy who created Project two thousand and threey five is the new head of DOTS. We got his name, though, I.
Don't think so. Elon Musk is still there. I'm still working in dough. She's just taking a step back from the limelight. Yeah.
Yeah.
We recently broke down new evidence in the Tory Lane's case, right, and you highlighted a Republican congresswoman for pushing up for his release. What do you think about conservative stepping into things like that, like the high profile celebrity cases.
Yeah, well, there needed to be another look into that case and the new evidence that they found, and some of the evidence.
That was that it's not really evidence, it's hearsay. Well, it's literally like if I was driving a car with Tommy Lauren and I say I heard what her Tommy Laurence say that she's racist and she wants everybody that's black and bron to be sent to another country. That's That's literally what this is like.
But Charlie Mane, I'm really confused because if Tory Lanes actually didn't shoot at Meghan this Sallian, wouldn't you be the first person to be like, hey, this person is in jail for the wrong reason and if there's more evidence that could exonerate him.
But this is my point is this isn't evidence, but it's not.
Here when her best friend is given immunity, and the whole thing is that the friend is actually the one that was shooting the gun and he hit her hand down and then that's why the gun fired at the ground and hit feet. If that really happened and the person that maybe actually did it was given immunity, there's a problem.
And listen, I'm not saying the course get it right all the time, all of that went through court already. Here's my problem with this, with this situation, and it's had nothing to do with Tory, make any of these people involved. It's just simply when something is presented in the court and there's actual evidence in testimony right that says this happened, why do we put hearsay? Why do we give hearsay more weight than we give that.
I think you just have to take it into account. And I would think you'd be the first person to be like, hey, if somebody's in there wrongfully and there's more evidence to possibly exonerate them, we need to take a look at it.
Why didn't we take it into account during the tryout?
A guy I can tell you exactly why, because George Gascon, who is the now. He was facing two recall attempts, right, and he was desperate to show that he could do a big, high profile case. And if you put Tory Lanes behind bars with enhancements for ten years, you look good and it's like all and especially when you're doing it on behalf of a mega celebrity like Megan the Stallion who has a much bigger following than Tory Lane's and much bigger profile. So George Gascon who doesn't want
to put anybody in jail. By the way, then slap is a ten year sentence on Tory Lanes and you give immunity to the friend with a jury.
It was a jury, a jury, a jury, a jury decided Tory Lanes feed, not just the judge.
Well, but there was enhancements by the DA so and enhancements are unheard of. But what I'm saying, I don't know when you enhance the crime ten years for what he's accused of, When you when you add extra onto it, and you add enhancements do to the nature of the crime, and you're not willing to do that in many other cases, it's like, what are you throwing the book at this guy?
I didn't think that was throwing the book at him.
He threw the book at him.
For shooting, if he did, if he threw the s at him.
And first of all, it's hard to go to jail in LA And the whole thing on this is this you need to everyone involved because it all actually is here, Shay at the end of the day, isn't it If you're at a house party and it's like, well, she said that he shot, and he said, if you have listen, if.
Tory Lanez didn't do this, I'd pray he comes home. But when you have actual evidence, you know him making a phone call from jail apologizing for whatever happened that night. You know eye witnessed that said they saw him do it, plus the person who got actually shot saying he did it, finding the gun in the car. The DNA was inconclusive, right because they said it was a male DNA and female DNA on the gun. If you have all of that, you can see.
Why do anything conclusive? Though? Isn't there some room for doubt there if there's both DNA on that gun and he and his story is listen, this other person is shooting and I'm hitting their arm and this is what happened. He's not saying that nobody. You know that he wasn't at fault at all.
Why not tell that story in court? And the driver that's that they overheard Kelsey say that during the trial. Why didn't that driver say something then? And what reason would Torri have to protect Kelsey? And what reason would Meg have to protect Kelsey? Why wouldn't Megan.
Say a friend not after you shoot me?
Yeah, but that's your friend right there. If he shoots you, you telling yeah?
But maybe if there's a dispute there. And I don't know because I wasn't there, like obviously Tommy wasn't there. But my thing is, if there's more evidence, let's take a look at it, because we don't need an innocent person rotting in jail who was nearly killed two weeks ago. If there's evidence to suggest that we miss something here, let's take a look at it.
Is he say evidence though? If you're in the car with a driver today Tommy and a driver says I overheard Tommy Lawrence saying X, Y and Z. How much creedi should we?
Why were we not? Why were we not testing for gun reside? On everybody's hands why And if the DNA is inconclusive and there's two sides of a story here, I don't I think the whole thing ends up being here, say doesn't it? So let's take a look. And I'm not saying that I can tell you he didn't do it. I wasn't there. But if there's more to take a look at, I don't think that someone should be riding in jail for ten years getting stabbed and possibly killed.
If there's more evidence, let's just take a look at it. That's all. That's all we're saying. And I actually think that a Republican stepping into that void and saying there could be a man in jail that shouldn't be and saying I want to take a look at it and put eyeballs on it. Republicans aren't really known for doing that, So congratulations to her for doing it, right, I think, just take a look at it.
Has anybody ever told you that your commentary endangered in real life?
Not in real life? People say a lot on the internet.
Yeah, if so, what responsibility you think you would be it for that?
Do you think that your free speech that you should be held accountable for everything that everybody does? Because they hear you say something. Depends Yeah, I can't think of anything, and maybe I'm wrong that I have said that would
endanger somebody. I've never called for violence against anybody. I've never you know, if people don't like what I say, okay, But and if people agree with me and then they're deranged and they do something, that's not on me anymore than it would be on you if someone agreed with you and then they wanted to carry out something because they heard you say something and they're deranged and took it the wrong way. I don't think I say anything to endanger people. And if I've ever said anything that
I take back, I will apologize for it. I have no pride in like if, hey, if I said something and I set it off the cuff and I was really heated at the time and it was taken out of context, I'll be happy to say, well, let me correct the record on that, or let me take a step back on that. I'm want so prideful that I'm like, Nope, I'm right all the time, and everything I say is gospel. I got that's ridiculous for any of us to say that.
It's my last question, how do you protect your piece, right, because when people see Tommy right, they can just see the commentator right, and they like the controversial part of you. But you're still a person first, like just a person first? How do you protect your piece? Do you ever get stressed out in that way that people only see some people can't look fast who you are, you know what I mean, like on your show or like what you're known for. Does that have a bother you or people
who don't? They just see you for what you do, like the commentator, the fearless, the boldness. How do you protect your piece with that?
First of all? Do you get stressed?
And then if so, how do you protect your piece?
Sorry, you gotta have a thick skin. You know it, you know it. You can't be in this business and be fragile. No, you just can't. And people are some people are just not going to like you. And I could sit here and I could say anything, and I could do anything, and people some people are just not going to like me, and I have to accept that, and that's okay. But I really have learned and not care so much what people think, especially if they've never
met me before. That's my take on it. If you've met me and you're like, I don't like her, she's a bitch. Okay, But if you've never met me, just take the chance. And some people are never going to get the opportunity to understand that nobody's ever going to meet you and have their personal opinion. I like to think and I believe that if people meet me like we're doing today, that they can be like, oh, you know what, I disagree with her, but she's not like
this monster. I wish we could talk more to each other because I think if we stop villainizing people based on what they do for a living or the opinions that they have, I feel like we could come together as a country and just say, yeah, we agree to disagree, but I don't hate that person. I don't wish bad things on that person. I hope we're getting there, and I think more conversations like this help us to get there.
Do you think I only got a couple more questions? Do you think like the conservative movement, even the liberal movement more so? I guess on like cable news network. Do you think they're more concerned with influencing policy or just going viral?
I think there are people that are interested in going viral. Sure, people are making money off of it now, Like when I started doing it, I wasn't making money off of it, Like I wasn't getting ad share revenue off of it, and I wasn't on X trying to do the engagement farming so I could get my check from X every month. So I was just doing it because I really felt it. There are people now that realize there is money in it.
So you can say crazy things and you can get a lot of clicks and people will talk about you, But you got to live with yourself at night if you're doing it for that reason, and if you're just doing it to get the attention, and people can see through it. I think people are so good at detecting bs at this point, and they can tell when someone's not genuine and they're just saying it to say it or to go viral. But I don't feel the people that I work with at Fox are very meaningful with
what they say. And I feel that the.
People that I want, some of them are just funny. Jesse Watter is just entertaining.
He's fun.
But do I believe Jesse believes the things he says? Yes?
I do.
Yeah, but I think he's just up to being entertained. I know Gutfield is just being entertain but.
They're having fun and that's okay. But I don't think that specifically the people that I work with, I don't think they're doing it to go viral. I really don't. And and at Fox it's like the people that have been doing this for twenty years, they don't want viral. Is like they know what it is, but they're not. You know, Sean Hannity's not like, let me go viral.
Yeah, I don't think Sean's trying to go viral, do you. You said you were doing it at one time, though, No.
I said when I was going viral, I wasn't making money off of it. It wasn't like let me say this so I can go viral and make money or get influenced. I was saying things that I felt and it went viral. But I never did it like let me say this to go viral.
Today, I think when you know that when you commentate on certain aspects of the culture, especially black culture, you know that it's gonna cause a lot of people to start engaging with you.
Sure, but engaging is fine. Starting a dialogue is fine. I think we should start it out. That's why we do what we do. If nobody's having a conversation based on what you say, you probably shouldn't do this for a living. Like if you just go on and you're like, I'm just gonna have a mediocre day today, and I'm just gonna say things that are right down the middle and not piss anyone off, you probably shouldn't be in the talk show business, or the radio business, or any business.
But I don't say things. I guess the point I'm trying to make is I've never said anything that I don't believe for the purpose of going viral or making a headline or a SoundBite. I've never done that once. And I've taken real it's from my side of the aisle for things that I've said that didn't go along to get along, So I take it from both sides, and like there's a for me. There's not a calculation that goes into it.
Have you ever changed your mind?
Sure, I'm sure I've changed my mind. I go valls on things absolutely. You know, and when you you're in this business and you're in it for long enough, like you realize, oh, Wow, some of the stuff that I said when I was twenty four, you know, maybe I wouldn't say today at thirty two. You just you learn and you grow in the business.
Have you ever had to alter your personal choices and beliefs to protect your image from a base that judges women harshly?
Well, people say really nasty stuff to women. So it's not fun when people pick on your looks or they pick on everything about you or oh you you know, I'm not going to sit there and correct everyone that's like, oh you had a nose job. I didn't have a nose job. But if you want to think I had a nose job whatever. I mean, it's if women take it just in much different way than men. Like they don't pick on what men wear, they don't pick on how they're just women. It's like, oh, yeah, this is
why is she wearing this? She's ugly? Why you know, why is she wear that? Or why is her makeup? Like that's fine.
I guess I'm saying conservatives. A lot of conservatives I hate, I really do hate saying conservative liberal, But I really feel like a lot of conservatives feel like women have a place.
Do you think so? Yeah, absolutely, I would say there are a lot of women in the Trump administration right now that are in very high roles that are not in the place that maybe old conservatism would say that they would be in because they're running things like women are really running this administration.
I think, do you think conservative media elevates fewer women the real power?
Not at all? When I most of the people at my network are women in high places. Are CEO is of woman a woman?
Yeah? Yeah, and she's okay. So what about like I guess for prime Time, like Lourer Ingram is the only one that has the show on.
Well lour Ingram, but I mean if you if you look at our lineup, I mean on right now would probably be Harris Faulkner, who has her own show, and then I'm gonna go sit with her and Outnumbered and
that's all women and one man. And then after that is America Reports co anchored by a man and a woman, and then you go into you know, Will Caine, and then you go into The Five, which is mixed group of people, and then you go into Brett Baer, and then you go into Laura Jesse and Sean Yeah, like we don't say, oh we need women here and women, but we have like a very good mix and at my network. When you walk in the people that are running the things, whether the producers senior, they are women.
I promise you they are women. Women get things done everywhere, but it Fox women get things done absolutely.
Do you feel like you fell under the radar a little bit because the people who now have a candie owns, Oh.
That's a good question.
See, but I don't. Maybe we're motivated by different things. I don't know what she's motivated by. I couldn't tell you. We're not friends more more than not friends. We're not friends. We're not friendly. You don't fuck with her, you don't like her, We're not friendly. I haven't spoken to her in years and years and years.
I did speak before, well in the.
Business we have, but we've never been friendly. Got her and I have never been friendly. I don't know she's gonna do her thing.
It was like a Caitlin clark Ain's Oh I don't think so.
I just we just are not we're not friendly. We're just not friends and that's fine. And she says some crazy stuff sometimes that I really disagree with. I don't like a lot of her commentary. I like some of it, you know, I like some of your commentary, and I don't like others whatever. But my motivations are very I think my monovations are different. I don't know, because that's that's her motivations are hers. I can't tell you what they are. I would never claim to know what someone's
intentions are. I don't say things to be controversial for the purpose of being controversial, to go viral, to say things that and maybe she'd and she probably does, believe them. I'm not saying she doesn't believe them. I don't do that.
You feel like she does though what you're saying, I don't.
I don't know why she does it, Like I really could not tell you. And I would never sit here and say, well, I know why someone does something, because I don't know, and I haven't spoken to her in many years. Off her and I were sit down, I'd be like, hey, do you and she would ask me probably the same thing, Hey do you believe everything you're saying? Yes? I do, And I asked her, she'd probably say yes, I do. You know. There could be many women that
have platforms. By the way, I think that there's this notion that there can only be like two women in conservative media. I want there to be one hundred women in conservative media with large platforms, and in liberal media, and in between media and people who don't do politics and media. I want everybody to have a voice, and the more voices that we have, the more choices people have. So I think that that's all part of the conversation.
Well, Tommy Laurence, make sure you check her out on Fearless on OutKick dot com. When does fear Let's come on every day? Yeah, one pm Eastern, one pm Eastern every day on OutKick dot com. And you can check your commentary out on Fox. Yes, sir, all right, Tommy, thank you for joining us, Thanks for having me. It's the Breakfast Club. Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.