INTERVIEW: Nicole Avant Opens Up About Grief, Finding Forgiveness, Faith & Her Parents' Greatest Advice

life is your life. You don't know how long you're going to be here. And his whole thing is like, you come with a number and you end with a number, So what are you going to do with your dash? That was it, What are you going to do with your life? And it wasn't not fame for him. His whole thing is, you know, greatness is very different from being famous, and a lot of people now the new

generations are, oh, if I'm famous, I'm famous, I'll be great. No, you're great and you're worthy and you're valuable just because you're alive. You don't have to have a title to be great, you know, or worthy or important or significant, you know. So that's what I'm feeling a lot that that was his whole thing. Even when he was passing away, and as you know, his last days with me, he was you know, his last words basically were like, keep

your mind right, girl, keep your mind right. It's okay, daddy, I will.

and they weren't right and nothing was landing. And then this tragedy, you know, my mom is killed during a you know, a home invasion, and I'm like, oh God, And I thought, well, I have this book that I was writing. Well, I'm not going to I'm not putting this out. How are you going to put it out? A book on grit, grays and gratitude after this. But my father was like, mm mmm, no, you don't. You

don't let anyone take your life. You don't let anyone stop you from doing what you're supposed to be doing. So I said, yeah, but Dad, it's called grit, grace, and gratitude. And then think you'll be happy. Those were the last words that my mom said to me at eight o'clock that night. So we were texting about a sweet potato pie, and she said, you know, because my dad typical clearance. They came for Thanksgiving the week before that. He took his leftovers and we didn't even get to

the pie that my mom brought for me. And she was so proud that she brought me this great pie and he took it home. So every day after Thanksgiving she'said, come get your pie, Come get your pie. And I said, Mom, you and this pie, it's okay. And then she texted me that night at eight o'clock and we went back and forth about the sweet potato pie and I said, I'll come get it tomorrow. I'll think about it, I'll come get it tomorrow. She said, okay, think you'll be happy.

Never saw her again, never heard from her again. And so when that happened, I thought, you know what. And then we looked at when I was showing my publisher my team the last text, they were like, that's the title of the book because your mom actually didn't just say I think you'll be happy about a sweet potato pie. You know, energetically and spiritually, that was your mantra to

go forward in life. That was your mantra to go because my mom was a big believer on your words and your actions and your thoughts will create your life. It just can't change. We see proof of that every single day. So I was like, right, I think you'll be happy. Okay, okay, I'm gonna do this, like and I'm going to move through my grief.

stories and remember stories about her. That did make me happy, that did make me grateful that Jacqueline Avon jackie A, you know what we used to call her, Jackie A, was my mother. And she really took pride in raising her children and supporting her family and loving her family. And she loved history and all history, but especially my history. She's like, you need to know who you are before you leave this house every day, So She had this

thing and we called it the Great Wall. It was letters and anything from Booker T. Washington to id B. Wells, Harriet Tubman to George Washington, Carver and Hank Earon and so and so. So She's like, so politics, you know, sports, entertainment, literature, art, You're going to see the greats Josephine Baker. There was not a day where I didn't walk out of my house where I didn't look at Josephine or Ruby Bridges.

all that. I just said, come home with me. And then for the last twenty months, I said, Okay, you're gonna be my road dog. We're just gonna hang. We're gonna be together. I'm not going to leave you. You're not gonna leave me, and we're gonna get through this shit as best as we can. I don't even know what that. I don't even know what it looks like.

I mean, some days he didn't even say killed. He never even used that word he would say when Jackie disappeared the day Jackie disappeared, because it was so you know what, and but to have him for twenty months living under my roof with my husband, and we just decided, Okay, our intention with him is he's going to feel safe, he's going to feel loved, and he's going to feel secure.

And it was the best twenty months I actually could have ever had, because yes, I grew up with him, but I left home at eighteen, never really came back home, would spend time with him, but he was busy, Clarence amount was doing things, and so I never really had all his energy to myself anyway. And so now as an older man and a wiser man and a calmer man,

I received so much more wisdom. And it was just out of a tragedy that was the best thing that could have happened, was that I got to live with Clarence again.

then another three months ago. By by the time we got to nine months, I looked at him and I said, he's Clarence Abon. I don't know what to tell you. I said, now I understand why I call him the Godfather. Like he he he. He would always say to me, I'm gonna live as long as I can, and when it's time for me to go. He literally read the New York Times obituary column every single day, and he'd read about other people's lives. He loved it, and he was like, I'm making sure I'm not in here. I'm

just making sure I'm not in here today. And then I would say no. My teas him, and I said, one day I go, Daddy, when you do go, you're gonna have the whole page. He goes, Oh, Nicole, please, they probably won't put me in there. I maybe I have a little paragraph, and when he died, the New York Times gave him the whole back age and I went, there you go.

just destroyed for those five minutes of that song. Bill Withers would come on and I think of you know, I think of my mom, and grief just it's waves. But it also hits every single human being on this planet. No one gets to escape grief. Grief is different for everybody. But the thing that helped me be calm or calm me down about it was when I got anxious, was I'm not the only one who's grieving today. I'm not the only one. There are mothers who are burying their

children around the world. There are mothers in our children's hospital right who work in three jobs. There're a five year old has leukemia, and that's grief. Your dog dies, it's grief, yea, your grandparents, whatever it is, or sometimes it's not even a death. You're fired from a job that you loved and you gave so much of your efforts and you were just don't know what happened. Grief is hard, but it is you are able to move through it. Now.

strong in the Lord? Like where where is everybody? Where was anybody from my mom? You know? You definitely go there. But then I snapped right back into it, like, no, you know what faith isn't about. You can't just say I have faith when everything is going right. Faith isn't for when everything is going right. Faith is for when everything is going wrong. Actually, it's easy to trust God when everything's great right, It's very difficult to trust the

universe and the divine when things blow up. But people have been doing this since the beginning of time. They have kept their faith. And the only reason we're all sitting here today is because people kept their faith in God and planted seeds for us right to have freedom to live the lives that we want to live while

they weren't living in freedom. So if they can do it, and unfairness can come to them and trauma can come to them over and over, physical, emotional, spiritual trauma, then I'm going to have to kind of tap into that energy of other people who've also gone through this and make and I had just had to make a decision to stay in faith, even though I didn't know, even though I didn't feel like being in faith. I just made a decision. I just came home and I said, Okay, God,

I don't understand any of this. I don't know what to do with this. I don't know who to call. I don't know what book to pick up. And then it was, you know my scripture, you know what I say? And the birds are going to wake up tomorrow, and the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and the sun's going to set tomorrow. So this is a part of life. Death is a part of life. How we die, we don't know. And then you know. And then in the book I write TD Jakes and it's a true story.

I literally walked up in my room and I fell to my knees, like, God, this is not happening. And the phone rang and it's a no caller idea. I don't think I'll hold on. I didn't know who it was. I didn't I it was a detective or somebody, And he said, is this Nicole and I said yes. He said, this is Bishop TD Jakes. I said, oh my god, well I just fell to my knees. He goes, he goes, He goes, how are you holding up? I go, I just fell down to my knees. He goes, well, then good,

We're going to pray. And he did his thing and then he said, tell me why you're angry, but you're angry about I go, well, obviously what I'm angry about. I'm angry that someone did this. I'm angry about this.

I'm disappointed. And he said, okay, now are we going to get this moment of five minutes gonna Are we gonna focus on your mom's eighty one years of her life and what she gave and what she did, or are we going to give this full five minutes where you're gonna go, because if you don't turn your mind quickly, this is going to be a disaster. And I said,

I want to focus on the eighty one years. And then the forgiveness part was the hardest, because you know, forgiveness is a hard word, and it's a tricky word. And I think a lot of people say I can never forgive that because I've said that too, which means I could never condone that. But forgiveness isn't condonement. It's never ever ever condoning a bad behavior. Ever. I forgave so that I could peace in my heart. I forgave

for myself. I was like, Okay, I give up the anger and the frustration and the sadness and the disappointment. I give it up. I give it back to God because these burdens that he keeps saying, you know, give me your burdens. Okay, okay, well here in mine because I'm pissed off and I'm disappointed, and I'm so just take all this and every day I had to do that. But I definitely made sure I didn't care about this person. I don't care about his name, I didn't care about

his past. I didn't care about I didn't care. I was like, I'm not giving him if any space in my brain or my heart because I don't have a bitter heart. I never had a bitter heart. But if you don't forgive, you will have a better heart. And again, to anyone who's listening, it is not about even reconciliation. I've forgiven people in my past, like friends who have hurt me. I never reconciled with them.

And if I've done anything to hurt anybody, I asked that I am forgiven for everything that I have done, consciously or unconsciously.

Sometimes it's easier than other times, but it's but but it is throughout scripture and most scriptures throughout history because of this reason, and it's for us, it's not for

the other person. And I think that's why forgiveness has talked about in all the good books so much, because it's you could be really bitter or you know, my friend's mom was a survivor of the Holocaust and she said to her, the one thing you owe me, And she was a child when she was in the Holocaust, four or five, and she said, you owe me a life that's what you owe me a life, you owe you owe me a life, that's it. But you got to give me a life because I survived so that

you could be here. And that always stuck with me that you know, my grandmother was like that. My grandmother's like we were born. It's you know, slavery, all of us like this.

would never want this to happen to anybody else. Surely that that was the whole My whole thing was, I just don't want I just want justice to be served so that this doesn't happen to if I can prevent this to for happening to somebody else by this person. Then that's how.

going to Watts again? You know, she said, because they need us. She was around South Central all the time, and she loved doing that anywhere anywhere in the world, but especially Los Angeles. Like, you're going to share your blessings, you should be grateful for your blessings, live out your blessings, enjoy your blessings. But a lot of people missed the second part, which is then also sir, and share your blessings with other people, so then it all goes around

so that it's not you're not hoarding. Oh this is mine and I earned this, and you know, you go do your own thing. My mom was like, people had to open doors for me, People open doors for your father. People open doors all the time. So she believed in a bridge and she believed, you know, we're all going to cross this bridge, and then when we get to the other side, we need to make sure that other people can cross.

this shit didn't happen. It is what it is. So whether it's I lost my job, my wife ran out on me, I got in this car accident, whatever it is, it is what it is, and then you own it and then you can make a better decision once you take accountability. It is what it is. Now what am I going to do about it? So for him, for example, he had Sussex records. He was super successful. He started then putting his hands in everything, and he was stretched

so thinly. Bill Withers hated going to the radio station. He owned a radio station, he owned, He got into the oil business, he got into publishing, he got into all these things. It was too much for him, and he admitted, and I was a little arrogant. So everything crashed. Bill left. He was like, I don't want to be a part of this. I'm leaving Sussex. I'm going here. This didn't happen all of a sudden, Sussex folded, radio station,

folded everything. He's in full debt, and he said, I had to look at myself and say, it is what it is. So I screwed up on this, this, this and this. I'm in debt. Oh, the government, this the irs is in my office and da da da da dah. And then he said, and I looked at myself in the mirror, and I said, now what am I going to do about it? And then he slowly but surely started picking putting the pieces together. Jackie came in and he was too. He was a little proud of, you know,

asking his friends for help. But my mom wasn't too proud, so she would go drive around with me in the back cars, in the back seats, sometimes going to his friends, saying, Clarence doys everything for everybody. Where is somebody for Clarence. He's had a bad break. He's been pulling you all up this whole time. Where And Jerry Moss, who just passed away, the founder of A and M Records. He

was in the M and A and M Records. He and Herb Albert God bless them, and Joe Smith different times, but they wrote they gave my parents seed money to start over, and that's what they did. And then Taboo Records started, and then and then the first band was SOS Band and it was take your Time, do it Right, And that was our comeback song in the Avon house, and you know, me and my mom played it every day.

She was like, this is what I mean. You know, if you if you own what it is and you take accountability, you try at least have the intention to start over. Look what happens now. We got the number one song here and then Jimmy and Terry followed that, then La and Face followed that, and then it was Bobby Brown, and I'll be sure all these people Wayney Houston. Everything followed that. But if my dad had not owned it and owned his mistakes. And he said to me,

I said, what happened with the radio station? You had the only black radio station on the West coast. He goes, I was just arrogant. I didn't want to listen to anybody in radio who knew better than I did. He said. I just thought I'm clar and to say, but I'm you know, I'm wealthy and successful. I'm living in Beverly Hills, he goes, and then boom it all just wow crash, you know. And so he always reminded me of of you know, I'd call him if I had issues in

the Bahamas and the embassy. He was like, Nicole, Nicole, you cannot make a great decision, which you need to do right now if you do not accept what it is right now. So you need to just say, okay, this, this doesn't feel right, these people are doing this, this is this. Then go into what are you gonna do about it?

must make a choice. You have to choose to swim. Just don't go down with the ship. It happens to everybody. You gotta choose to just swim. It's dark, it's cold, you don't know how you're going to get there, she goes, And maybe you don't make it, but at least choose to try to swim. Don't go down with the ship. Which is why that was the mantra in my head of every time I wanted to go down with the ship.

After this, I wanted to go down a lot, and I was going down a lot, and I would hear my mom like, you know, take a nap, take a nap and rest, but you got to get out there, and you have to swim for me, you know, swim for me, swim so that people remember me. Right, Like my dad would say, you know, righte about Jackie, Like I don't know what to write, he goes right about Jackie, right about are a lot right about this? Like it should be. He believed in legacy, you know, That's why

he did everything. What he did was he was trying to create legacy, whether it was Hank Aaron or you know, Bill Withers or anybody like we're this is legacy to be passed on to the next generations, like we all survive and thrive on other people's legacy.

I go, mom, and she was like she was standing right there, and then and then it was she was gone, but she was with me, and I felt her, and I felt her in the room, and then I was and then all of a sudden, it was probably the first time I really smiled in a couple of weeks, like I felt a smile. I felt myself smile, and then I knew for sure because she'd always say the spirit is everlasting. She always told me that energy is real and the spirit is everlasting, and I knew in

that moment. I said, oh, Mommy, okay, you're here and you are everlasting. Okay, okay. And I remember looking at a spider that I was. I would have usually killed the spider. It was a big ass reader. My mom always would take the paper, get the tissue, like talk to the insect, and that it was Christmas Eve. I go and in honor of you, I'm not gonna kill this spider. But I felt her and I knew she was there, and it was perfect that it was Christmas Eve.

And we had the best dinner that night with Clarence. We poured him his wine, we played him his music because you had to have Duke on. You had Duke Ellington, Frank Sinatra, count Base, see Quincy Jones, and he remembered, He's like, I used to go to Birdland and I was here with Jackie. And then that's when we realized how the healing was going to start for Clarence was, Oh, we're going to play all this music from the sixties,

the seventies, the eighties, but mostly the sixties. When he met my mom, when he was in New York, when he was running and he was learning from Joe and he was just becoming Clarence. It was all that music because as we all know, with music, it ignites, it just reignites every memory. I mean, I could listen to his song from the eighties. I could tell you what I was wearing, what perfumer I was wearing, who I had a crush on in high school, what car I was in. I went to this football game when this

song was playing. I danced with this at the prom. Mean, that's what music does. So I used music. That was my tool to play it for Clarence every single day. So breakfast we played Frank Sinatra, dinner, we were Duke Ellington, you know. Then it was count Basie and Quincy Jones, and it was just music transformed him.

community more. I didn't just you know, write a check. I was like, let me come down and see these kids today. Let me go and deliver these books myself. Let me go to this museum and see this exhibition. What Jackie would have wanted. And then she started to live within me in a different way, you know. And so and now kind of with my dad, it's the same. It's the same thing. I get now what he was doing for Ali and everybody was like, we got to

put these people on maps so that nobody forgets. We have to create our own legacy like everybody else does.

shit with you. Look at all this. She's gone. Everything's here. I'm gonna be gone. Everything's here. So we went through his wishes, went through my mom's wishes. Thank god, they wrote everything down. They were ordered like that. And then I was like, okay, And then he's so funny you say that. And then he looked at me and goes, I go, Dad, so there's some people want to buy the house. Don't sell this house, at least not while I'm alive. Don't sell this house. He goes, this is

my house. He ain't taking my house. I ain't letting nobody take my house. I pay for this house. This is my house. I've been in Beverly Hills for over fifty years in the same house. And what has come through this house And then now when I look at it, I'm like, every time I go there to talk about selling, and I'm like, m I don't think so. I don't think so I might use it as something else, like it's still a Meca of greatness. And I'm telling you,

I'm not just saying this. I'm not being delusional when I tell you. And the energy there is so positive. It is the most powerful it's ever been. It's almost like she was struck by lighting and that was it. And now the energy there, the hummingbirds are everywhere. The energy, the vibration is high, and there are when I look at it, and I look at like every specific piece of art, this black artist and Jacob Lawrence when Jacob was just starting, and my parents are like an Ernie Barnes.

Everybody but my parents like, we gotta support these black artists and we gotta you know, and finding letters of like James Baldwin and all these things. It's just I don't know what I'm gonna do with that.

I worked at Bullocks. I was terrible at selling shoes because I couldn't put the boots back in the box properly. It's a very hard job. It's really it's particular. But my mom's point was, you need to learn how to work on your own and not in a fancy situation. So, yes, you will have internships later in life, but you're gonna work, and you're gonna meet people that you will you would have never met otherwise. And you're gonna understand how paycheck

to paycheck. You don't have to you. Yeah, you're collecting and you get to put it in a savings account. They don't this, and I need you to see this. And she helped me with not having imposter syndrome also because she would say to me, and Alex, you do you Your spirit came to do whatever it's here to do. My spirit, my soul is here to do what it's supposed to do. If you want to be a teacher, great,

If you want to be a psychologist, great. If you want to be a journalist, which I wanted to do, great, I'll help you go to school. But she never felt they never said you must do what we did and you must stand in our shoes. They were really great at please go create your own life, please, like we gave you life, so we don't know what your life is.

And sometimes doors would open, and then sometimes they wouldn't, which was great also because then I would you know, at eighteen nineteen, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll get this job for sure, and then I didn't, and I'm thinking, well, wait a minute, wait a minute. Well I'm Clarence ave moon staughter, I'm Jackie evemonstaughter. And then my mom said you no, no, nicol people get to say no. I mean, I've always told the story I got fired from a job once and I said, can you believe they fired me?

Could you believe they fired me? She said, did they fire you? Did you fire yourself? Did you fire yourself? Because she knew, She says, you would call me all the time on the big cell phones. You're the ones that were this big, so you would call me like, oh ten minutes, say to work, I hate this job. My boss wus know me and she goes, And then

you were the first one out. You were the last one to get there, so you fired yourself and you know so she helped me with finding my own passion and reminded me and Alex that you guys can do really whatever you want to do. You do not have any pressure from us to feel it, to feel that you have to fill our shoes. And my dad's like, my shoes are filled, my feeter in them. He goesn't get in your own shake because don't follow my shadow. He's like, go make your own shadow. Stop standing behind me.

lived a compassionate life. She lived a life of service, and she lived a life of giving and kindness, And the greatest lesson I got from her was use your freedom wisely, use your thoughts, wisely, use your words wisely. You can take you could. Really, we're the only creatures on earth that we can release our past. Right, we don't have to carry if we don't want to. You

could really try to release it, manage it something. But we're the only creatures on the earth that actually have an imagination that allows us to create the future that we want. That was her greatest lesson, Like, do not forget that the power within you is the same power that creates worlds and stars and you know what I mean, you're connected to the same thing. So that's what she

gave me. This understanding of life and understanding of living a worthy life, that you know, live a significant life.

So it is a positive book. But I hope they're inspired and motivated and courage to live the best life that they can and understand while they're doing that that they are still they are significant and important and valuable, regardless of what their title is. Regardless like, you could still have a meaningful life and that life is really worth living.

is your assignment? Clarence Avon understood his assignment, and I think it's anybody who understands their assignment and anybody who opens doors for people or makes connections for people, and who is excited to see the magic that happens as opposed to what am I going to get out of this? That's the next Clarence Avant. Yeah, yeah, no, go ahead.

Tyler not only became one of the most successful black man in America, one of them, not just that he has is so focused and so on purpose about turning around and going into every community and was like, if you have the will, I have the way, come on and I'm going to bring you and I'm going to teach you. And he's disciplined Tyler, and he has disciples around him, right, and he's teaching always. But the thing I love about Tyler Perry is that he wants to

see people succeed. He knows the law that there's enough for there's more than enough for everybody, and that no one can take from Tyler Perry or take from you, or take from you or you or you anything that's meant for you, no one can take it anyway. So Tyler, I think embodies the most of Clarence Saba because he doesn't expect anything in return. He does it with this this love. You know. Oprah's the same way, Like they put it out there and then it's like, you know, it's for grabs.

know having role models like that. And I'm working with Tyler now. We're working on a film together called The Six Triple Eight. It's gonna be out next year. I wasn't supposed to be a plug, but I'm gonna plug it. And I think Kerry Washington, she might have talked about it. She was here, and it's great. But Tyler and I wanted to keep legacy going. And this is a great American story that just happens to be about all female, all black battalion in the arm and what they did

and how they helped us win World War Two. I was like, well, this is an important story, and I call Tyler. I was like, you should do it, because Tyler gets it. Tyler understands the responsibility that we have. It's not about just telling stories and being rich and

a fancy card, a big house. Tyler understands on a very deep, soulful level, that these are ripple effects when I'm gone, when all of us in this room are gone, that whatever we put out there, it's gonna live, like this book is gonna live.

went to sleep. I needed to laugh before I laid my head down on the pillow. Yeah wow, yeah.