Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning.
Everybody's DJ n V Jess hilarious, Chelamine the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. You got a special guests in the building. That's right, the good brother Michael Eric Dison.
Welcome back, brother, Hey, it's good to be here. The new digs they looked great.
Wow, man, sal how come no pictures of dicing on the walls headline the same thing you got the crispy here.
No.
I had to get it faded up before I came here, man, you know, I had to hang with y'all. I had to get right. Man.
Now you in town for the National Action Network Summit. Yeah, something the good brother, Reverend Shoping had been doing for years.
But what exactly is that.
Well, it's a convention, an annual gathering for his organization, National Action Network, and it's a remarkable gathering of all kinds of folks.
I was at the gala last night.
He's honoring everybody from Whoopi Goldberg uh, to Caroline Wanga, the CEO of Essence UH to to you know, the the young lady Alexis Magil who runs the Planned Parenthood. So it's an awards banquet, but the entire gathering, you might see Vice President Harris, you might see President Biden, you might see Charlamagne the God rolling through their DJ envy And it's an incredible gathering to talk about politics, culture, religion and what we do as a society to respond
to the need for justice. And I'm actually a keynote for the Minister's luncheon on Friday to try to talk about social justice and the necessity of the church connecting to the social justice arena.
Okay, well it is a big election. Yeah, it is a big election. Bro man. How you feel is Biden? How you feel about Truma? The rematch? American does not wanting It's true, but it's what we got.
You know. I want the Lakers to be every year in the finals, because I was raised as a Lakers fan.
But that ain't who's plan.
You know. It's probably gonna be the Nuggets and maybe the Celtics, So you gotta choose one of them. And the thing is is that, yes, we think we want better choices because we want better choices. We think that better people should run because we think better people should run. But these are the people running. I happen to believe that there is not even a question for black people of who to choose. I mean, Joe Biden has been far above anything that President or ex President Trumps provided.
I saw him in the What was it talking about jobs, bro I mean, the unemployment rate of Black America now is about five point six.
When Biden came into office, it was nine point three.
He's talking about money and checks, and I see Sexy Read and other rappers talking about he gave us a check. First of all, please study your politics and ya civics. That's the Congress that allotted that money. Plus is yodo.
And if you're going to count that way, then count what Biden did for relieving the burden of people paying back their student loans, and on and on and on when we look at every metric, not only putting a black woman in the Vice president office, not only putting a black woman on the Supreme Court, but doing programs that lift all boats, that address African American people specifically in some instances, but more broadly issues that are concerning us,
whether it's about discrimination and housing, whether it's about not only student loans, but every effort of education, kicking kids out of school early and on and on and on. It ain't no question for me. Donald Trump is a vortex of bigotry. He is the leader of the big autocracy, the rule reign and tyranny of forces that are antithetical to our best interests, not only as black people, but
as a nation. And when we look at every indication of where we are as a nation, this is a guy who's still standing by people who supported January sixth, the insurrectionist. He's trying to make them American patriots, but demonizing Black Lives matter, demonizing.
People who protest for the right and ability to live.
In this nation without the unjust encumbrances imposed on us by white supremacy. So I don't understand what black people see in Donald Trump's swag. I mean, come on, this borrowswag at best, it's referred swag at best. I mean Barack Obama had swag coming down Air Force run. It might as well been, you know, fifty cent planning in the background. I don't know what you heard about me, but the reight can't get a dollar out of me. Right, he had swag, but he had a tan suiting people
went crazy. Now, Donald Trump the face of neo fascism, the face of an authoritarian government that is already indicated if he gets back in office what he's going to do. There ain't no choice for us and black people. We got to wake up. These are the things we have
to attend to. And look, you saw the article I think in the New York Times yesterday that said recently that said that Donald Trump and the Republican Party are supporting third party interest because those detract from and take votes away from Joe Biden.
So we know in a tight race, every vote counts.
Tell r RFK Jr.
In particular.
And I think that again, this is not time for this extended journey of narcissism, this escapade of self deification. Bro, these are serious issues at stake, and Black folk got to get out there and vote.
I don't disagree with anything that you said, but I think that we don't take the time sometimes to take a step back and see why people do gravitate towards, you know, somebody like Trump, Because I keep telling folks over and over, you know, people will forget what you did, they'll forget what you said, but they won't forget how.
You made them feel.
In twenty people felt they got the stimulus checks, they got the PPP loans, so they felt like it was more money in their pocket. Now, what I tell folks is, let's think about how we got there. We got there because of Donald Trump's mishandling of COVID. So do you want to see millions of people die thanks in order for you to get that check in your pocket?
Right?
And I think the other problem is the Democrats just do a terrible job messaging. And I think sometimes we helped them with terrible messaging because we spend so much time talking about how bad Donald Trump is, knowing you ain't gonna change none of those people in mind who's supporting Trump. You don't talk about the good that the Biden Harris administration is doing enough.
I think amen, I mean absolutely right. And they could do a better job of evangelizing their own evolution, their own viewpoints, and what they've done for black people and others. But you you know, you damned if you do, then you damned if you don't. Look on your show, Joe Biden made a joke. He was like, if you don't vote for me, you ain't black.
Oh my god, I don't know that was a joke. Well, here's my point.
We say we want a white person who understands us and con vibe with us, right, Bill Clinton playing the saxophone, but more importantly understanding the limits, the interests, the ideals of Black America. That was an inside joke, Joe Biden saying, if you don't vote for me, that's a bit of swag, if you will, by saying, by promoting the fact that he understood the inside language and discourse of Black America.
That was not laying laying claims to the fact that, of course, if you are authentically black, then I am the only choice for you.
That was a bit of swag. And then we're tripping.
We don't want it.
Say if you go for Trump, you voting get your own interest. I mean, he ain't lying. I don't detect no lives. So I'm saying, if he's got that, we don't mind it.
If you know, you know some rapper who's white doing it, you know, if it's Eminem and you know doctor Draken Sentim said he's the coldest brother on the microphone and what he does and blah blah blah.
So we don't mind that kind of swag.
But if a guy who understands us who's had Look look complicated histories.
You know, people are constantly pointing, well, look at Joe Biden in the nineteen nineties, bro, what have you done for me?
Lately?
People evolve and grow, they change.
Now Joe Biden is still saying the stuff he said back then about you know, not wanting his kids to be involved in a racial jungle or you.
Know, against busting.
Well find me a white person that really wasn't against busting at that particular point, even in enlightened white liberals.
Now, my point is not to say that he is perfect.
He's not.
The point is, though, what has he become? What is he evolved to rock him said, it's not where you're from, is where you're at?
What is he doing now?
What is his interest in our progress? And what do we get from supporting that particular figure Donald Trump? Again, your point is right, Let's figure out why.
People are attracted him. It ain't it ain't great.
I mean, we could be attracted him because rappers who put Donald Trump on understood that Donald Trump was like them, swag a lot of bravado. But we see he ain't got the He lying like most rappers, you know, about what they got. When Jay Z said, well, hey hey, homeboy, playboy, where's those those diamonds? That's not what you said. Where's the hummer? That's not what you said you had. So we know a lot of rappers lie, that's what they do. So Donald Trump was attractive because he was a liar.
He was full of mendacity. Here's a guy we're talking about, Joe Biden back in the day. You and your daddy are racist in terms of the what buildings you owned and not wanting black people to be there.
So if we gonna do it, let's go to for tap.
But my point is that, yes, at this point, don't we we understand enough of why black people might be attracted him some black men. Let's go there, some black men because of the swag of patriarchy, a man in charge. He's talking about grabbing stuff.
This is vicious.
Repudiation of an enlightened sense of masculinity. You ain't got to do that in order to be a man. So everything that Donald Trump represents that is attracted to us ain't great. So let's get a do away with the kind of patriarchy, the misogyny, the sexism that royal so much of our community in ways that are destructive, whether we see it in the church or the temple of the synagogue and so on, or whether we see it in schools. So the point is, yes, let's examine why
black people may be attracted or others. And we ain't gonna change their minds, but we can change enough minds within our own community to say, don't vote against your own best interests.
And in that case, I think there's little choice about who we should vote for on that day.
Well, you say the black conservatives who say our best interests are conservative.
Rue, That's why so few of them, they numbers speak for themselves, right, Black conservatives are quite interesting. You know, you had a wonderful interview here with Canda's owns.
She ain't you know what's interesting to me.
Candi's owners ain't apologized for what she said about George Floyd. She made an entire documentary, but you know, besmirching this man's attitude posthumously, no apology for that.
If that's how you feel, why should she apologize.
Well, first of all, because she shouldn't have. She should apologize because she's wrong.
Number one.
Number two, she can feel that way, and that's your point about feeling. Let me connect these two black people what we feel as opposed to what we do. Sometimes you don't feel like loving your partner, you don't feel like loving your wife or your husband or the person you wit, but you do it out of what a sense of duty and obligation. Those are not bad words. So just because she felt that way, the facts show that's not true. The stuff she tried to make up
has been empirically disproved. At the same time, here's a man lying on the ground begging for his life that millions of black people can identify with, and she's trying to turn it into some conspiration see of black you know, refusal to be responsible. You know her and Jason Whitlock. These are people who are destructive for our community. And Candace Owns gets a break because white folk got rid of her, The right wing got tired of her on the issue of Israel versus Palestine when she had a
fleeting moment of revelation. And now she's accepted and embraced. If that's what black conservativism is her or Jason Whitlock or Clarence Thomas, who has been a singular source of destruction for our people. The black conservatives ain't that much to recommend for their particular viewpoint.
This is what I think we're missing, And I'm not defending any of these people.
What I think with somebody like a canvas owns, I don't think black people, certain black people didn't.
Realize she already had a large audience Black.
She had a movement called Blexit, and that was six seven years ago when she was trying to get people, black people in particular, to get off the Democratic plantation and seek other things, whether it was being a conservative, being an independent, whatever it is. So I think now when people say this thing about, oh, it's black people embracing her, it's like, nah, she already had an audience.
When we say black people are really talking about new black people who we wasn't embracing her before, the black people who weren't. Look, of course they are conservative black people in this country. The average Black person, without respect to politics, is culturally and religiously and morally conservative. They
believe in tank commandments. Yeah, they might want to support a woman's right to have abortion, bodily autonomy, but for real, for real, when they go to church, they're concerned about the fact that you might be a bored in a baby, right, So you can have a particular religious viewpoint about an issue and have a political and understanding the political consequence
of that viewpoint. That's why black people have been radically dissimilar to white evangelicals and the politicization of white evangelicals who have used their religion to try to make this a Christian nation. Martin Luther King Junior used his Christianity to make this as nation. And that's a big difference. When I see people praying in certain legislatures and praising to God, I'm an atheist to that, God said I only I'm tired of your incense. I'm tired of the bs.
So I'm saying God, if God is an atheist to that, I ain't gonna believe in it either. So back to the point of Candace Owns, Yeah, there are some black people who follow her.
This. Look the great beloved.
May Angelo, a dear friend of mine whom I loved, who I think was right in ninety nine point nine percent of time. I think she was wrong about supporting Clarence Thomas. Give him a chance. Let's see what he'll do when he gets in there. And then he got there and he his Rex shop every since. So there are always gonna be Black people who are gonna give ear to certain conservative values, viewpoints and visions. The point is,
what are the political consequences of what she's arguing. And I'm saying, at the end of the day, most the masses of black people are not co signing the kinds
of viewpoints that black conservatives are putting forward. And Candace Owns in particular may have Look, she's bright, she's intelligence, she's articulate, she can be funny, she has a decided viewpoint, and I think she should be able to say that, and we should be able to say, what you are doing is counterproductive to the interests of African American people. The masses of black people can't co sign that because
of the masses of black people. Don't see reflected in your vision of standing with Kanye West and saying white lives matter. I'm saying, at what point.
Within those same black people stand with Kanye West still that they do, but not a bunch of them, not a whole bunch of them.
Not When I'm saying, the masses of black people love Kanye for what he did, his music, what he represented, there's no question about that. The first five six albums incredible, and some of the music sinci It is incredible. We also have an understanding about him because of mental illness, and we know that mental health and mental illness are
things he struggled with in public. So yes, we're gonna grant him some kind of recognition and we're gonna stand up for what he did when he stood up for us when he said George Bush doesn't care for black people. So there were moments in Kanye's evolution where he made significant political interventions in the name of a kind of understanding of that blackness. Viscerally, he didn't have a sophisticated political expression, but.
He said stuff that we could vibe with. So yeah, yeah, I got to help Trump in the White House. You also hope trumping White House that you momy a superman.
I mean, come on, bro, I mean at that level, are we going to ascribe that to an issue of mental health or we're going to say that's your choice and what you did. Sammy Davis Junior went to the White House with Richard Nixon, right, but it was a different consequence. He was raising money for black people and standing behind us and by us. So I think that, Look, Candace Owns and Kanye West.
Bless them.
They can do what they want, they can believe what they want. But we have a right and an obligation to say but that is not productive for us. And just because you may can doe from that, or some black people follow you, the masses of black people enough following you, because the masses of black people don't desern in your belief system, a structure of reliable confidence invested in this political order. For you to represent us, you ain't representing what we believe. When you believe in things
you don't understand, then you suffer superstition. Ain't the way the great Stevie Wonder said. And some of that conservative stuff is kind of political superstition premised upon empirical facts. It's not based upon what we know to be the case. It's an idealized expression of where we are. So when the conservatives latch on, you shouldn't be the color of your skin, It should be the count of your character. That was a dream that a man articulated, that was
not a reality. So again, for Candace Owns to get a pass, and this is what I mean by pass, not that they weren't already black people following her, but for our sympathies of those who didn't necessarily sign on to what she believed to now be sympathetic to her because she's gotten mistreated by white folks.
That's what we've been telling you. Sympathetic the hurdle. You don't think anybody's being sympathetic to Candasons.
Oh yeah, there are a lot of people sympathetic to Candassones as a black woman. Stand up for her the same way I was talking about Maya Angelo with Clarence Thomas, and he's a black man.
Don't jump on him. Let's be concerned. Uh you know, it could be.
It could be because they agree on the God's issue. That's probably I can do that. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay.
So my point is, again for black concernservatives who articulate their ideas and beliefs, that's fine, but most of them don't have rooting, In fact, don't have rooting in a political order that has respected the integrity of our being, that has respected us, that has appreciated us. Some of the same white conservatives that they joined with now celebrating Martin L. King Junior couldn't stand him when he was alive,
called him Martin Luther. Kuhm saw him as the worst scourge on the American democracy, a blemish to the record of the American Constitution of Declaration of Independence. Not embrazen then why because they think they can use them. These are the same people who stand against the very politics that we're invested in, and when black folk do it, there's an especial assault and insult to us, because y'all been there long enough. Clarience, Thomas is a dark skinned
black man. I'm sure some of his animals toward black people has to do with being mistreated by black people because he.
Was such a dark sand black man.
My daddy was from all Benny, Georgia, a blue black man, So as a light skinned Negro, I saw that growing up, and I saw how people treat him and mistreated him. Me, being a curly haired used to wear glasses till I got my eyes fixed the other day on the cataracts, so I can see you now, huh yeah, no, no, no, I got well, it's like LASiS, but I had cataracts,
so they removed the cataracts. It was lasers and surgery, man, So now I can see I ain't got no glass and I can see a handsome all I mean, you know, the two are not contradicted. I happened to be allergic. However, let me be honest that I can't smoke weed, and I found out by well anyway. So the point is, the point is ultimately at the end of the day, then when we think about who we are as a people and what kind of ideas we put forth and who we are, I'm just saying, the black conservatives have
not stood up for it. So Clarence Thomas probably has animus toward people because they mistreated him as a dark sanded black man. But what he's done since has more than paid us back, the furious indifference to the being of black people deciding what folks even when conservative white folks are how you going too far, Clarence Thomas said, you ain't gone far enough. We have authenticated these people to a certain degree by not speaking out vociferously against them.
And I'm saying again with Candice Owns, she might feel that George Floyd represented a certain threat, but when it comes down to facts versus fiction, it ain't even true.
And we got to hold people accountable for that.
I guess for me, I feel like somebody like Clarence Thomas, Yeah, I can understand holding him accountable, somebody like Candace Ows and it could just be me. It's just like she's not an elected official. She's the person with a platform on YouTube the podcast. Sure, like, how much are we supposed to argue about something like that, especially when we already know the truth. The troop is right there in your face, the cops who killed George Floyd dre in prison.
You know, we saw George Floyd get killed, the coroners that he got choked out, and that's what this cause of death.
Watching it run and argue with somebody.
Well, because the thing is is that her viewpoints until her I guess she had a blexit from Ben Shapiro, so maybe she had a bensis. The point is that
that influences white other white people, other white conservatives. You ideas that filter into legislatures where in Tennessee where I live, they kick out to the two young justins and a white woman, where it makes a difference in terms of shutting up discourse and dialogue about beliefs that they don't cherish about closing down conversations about who owns, guns and the nut. So the influence of that platform has far
reaching consequence in ways that we can determine. In some ways we may not be immediately able to determine, but that have an effect on white folk who think about these issues of race and who feel justified because they can point to a black face to say, Oh, my god, this is what Jason Whitlock believes. This is what Candice
Owns believes, this is what Glenn Lowry believes. So the justification for certain self hating moments of African American politics, ideology, and interests is enough to say to us, we got to speak up and out against this, because there's a relationship between that kind of stuff and the belief that
Trump represents a certain kind of virtue and value. If you hear enough black people or enough times of a conservative articulate black person suggesting that this is not a problem, it does have consequence, and those little inter you know, those are where the little space.
It's not the most black people who think, oh, that's bullshit.
We know that, it's enough black people who may not understand what the differences are ideologically and politically between what they articulate and what the interests of African American people are to make a difference.
I think a lot of people are.
I agree with with a lot of what you said, but I think a lot of people are tied of I call it the daddy's law in my house.
Right.
The daddy's law in my house is I said it, and you do what I say, don't ask me no questions. I feel like that's a lot with Democrats.
Right.
We see things sometimes when we ask a question and be like, oh, you're going against us.
I'm not going against you. I'm asking a question. Right.
We talked about Body, Right, when you talk about body and people thought he had amnesia just watching the things that he do. And then when you ask about it, it's like, oh, you're going against him, You're given you, given you given the Republicans. No, I'm just asking because I might not want that.
Democrats any critique, any critique, critique, automatically making where the money goes with this, that.
And the other.
If I ask a question or question anybody like anybody like, I can question you, you can question me. Doesn't necessarily mean we enemies, doesn't mean.
I'm going against you, but were just having a real conversation.
And I think that's what bothers a lot of black Americans when it comes to Democrats.
I get that, I mean, but if you think that's the problem with Democrats, what in the hell do you think that's in regard to Republicans who at least with Democrats, you have.
An argument to be made.
And by the way, I agree with all that in the sense that we should be able to criticize. I wrote an entire book as this Generation, as a whole book on Barack Obama. And even though I distinguished myself from them in terms of how far at least Wes was able to go, I think Tavis had a bit more decor.
But but the decorum, I'm sorry, But the point.
Is this is that, yes, you know, I was out there taking strays, uh, because I believe a certain thing and I wanted to hold people accountable. Still love them. See, I believe in the six inning theory of baseball. As you know, this is baseball season, and the sixth inning, if it stars raining, whoever is the head is gonna win. Right. If you go six innings, whoever's the head gonna win.
So I think we got to go six innings. That means we got to stay on the same team, have the message of productive engagement politically for our people, what helps us, what hurts us, unidentifying enemies, friends and opponents, and then after six innings you got some stuff to spread around. So when you make a critical comment like that, don't be naive. I'm just being objective and neutral. I'm
answered raising a question. You ain't just being objective and neutral, even if you intend to be the consequence of your talk is not your intent may be to be neutral, the consequence is it reinforces a certain narrative or belief. That doesn't mean you can't be critical because I was critical, but I put it in context. I specified how much love I had for Obama. I specified what I thought he was doing right, talked about the interests he held. I talked about how white supremacy ganged up on him.
But I also said he had three bites at the apple. He ain't chose no black woman to be on the Supreme Court. He had many opportunities where he spoke up and out against black people. I think that his comments about and especially his spouse in regard to Jeremia Wright, were wholly gratuitous and destructive. After the fact. So I got criticisms, but I got to understand the degree to which they play into a narrative that either supports my beliefs or undercuts them. So there's no kind of objective.
This our comedian point of objectivity. I stand outside the flow of human history. No, bro, you down here with West Montgomery on the ground, as y'all probably too young, remember West Montgomery, the great jazz guitarist, down here on the ground. We're down here on the ground. So it's not that we can't be critical, But I'm saying, what's your critique of a political order where Republicans don't even give a damn about who you are? At least what
Democrats you can push them? At least with democrats. Minute you said you claimed you were part of, and then you.
Fill into blanks. So what are you doing? You're failing us.
That kind of critique is is quite necessary and powerful, and when we do it, however, is extremely powerful as well, and we have to be strategic about.
It to do it. It's all right.
Time in the election is a damn good time.
Here's my point.
It's four years in between. Where is the critique It's been happening I mean, look, look, there's no question Biden can say, hey, calm down with some of that, because you've been consistent in the critique. But I'm saying we got to be strategic about what we're saying, and when we're saying that, I'm not saying, surrender your capacity as a free thinking person. But what kills me, what cracks me up? When I hear canvas ons and and Kanye, I'm talking about getting off the Democratic plantation?
What damn plantation do you.
Think you're on?
When you are with Ben Shapiro.
When you were with Donald Trump, you owned the biggest plantation at all, the mental one, the one that is exercising your mind, and the ventriloquism of white supremacy, black mouth moving, white ideas flowing out of you. So please tell me when you disparage and legitimately criticize so called plantations politics of the Democrats, What damn plantation are.
You speaking for? What master's voice are you amplifying when you say that?
I agree with you wholeheartedly, And I also say I feel like black people in particular, we shouldn't be beholden to any party. I don't think these fanatics over Democrats are insane to me. These fanatics over conservatives are insane to me. We should always be looking at who and what serves our best interests. I don't even think we should be talking about voting for individuals.
Let's talk about the.
Ideas and the ideas that that individual is putting on the table. But I think that'll get you, father, But let me in a conversation with you.
Let me ask you this. Here's the point. Why are black people stupid? I don't think so. No, not are they dumb?
I don't think so. So why is it that black people are voting for the Democrats. It's not because they're on a damn plantation. Because at least the Democrats they serve limitis, They serve our best interests.
So you know the old saying, no permanent party, just permanent interests.
I get that. But our interests have been tied up with people who at least are willing to listen to us. Tell me what interests of African American people accept a few black rappers that Donald Trump got out of jail. What black person can point to him and say these This man articulates the interests of my community, embraces us as a people understands our plight. In predicament, he's talking about shitthold countries, many of whom, many of which are
countries of color black people in them. This is a dude consistently talking about hurting and harming Black people, using the police power of the state to circumscribe.
Us and to undermine us.
So I'm saying, even by your litmus tests, the Republicans ain't gotten nothing for us. This ain't old school Republicans. Back in when Nelson Rockefeller was a Republican, my god, or William Cohen was a Republican, a liberal Republican. That's unheard of at this point. So there are some people who are certainly in the history in the history books, who are Republicans, who are down with us. That's that's
why black people were a Republican. When I hear Republicans, we are the Party of Lincoln, Brodad was a long time ago. That was a long long time ago when the Republican Party was concerned about our interests and the Democratic Party represented as part of the Dixiecrats and others who were a Southern base against the best interests of black people.
I'm saying, even by your litmus tests.
Why are we wen talking about what Republicans done because they don't give a damn And let me just say this, when you look at the fact that in these state legislatures, thirty eight out of fifty of them are run by Republicans and they don't give a good gosh darn.
About black people.
They're voting against us, They're creating rules and restrictions against us. The voting has been made far more difficult. Even conservative courts say you are going too far. You've redrawn the maps. They don't respect the integrity of black voting. The Voting Rights Act, which has been gutted but still powerful enough to provide an umbrella for us, is being assaulted and attacked every day. Why would we even vote for anybody who's part of that party?
And everything you're saying is absolutely correct.
But what I want us to start doing is just look at the things that these people are doing that is getting people's attention. You dismissed something, right, you said that, you said that he let out three black rappers. It's not even about the black rappers. It's about the first step back. Whenever somebody can just point to something and say that is a tangible thing that person did that I actually saw for myself, right, that helped somebody in my community. They'll gravitate towards that.
OK. I get that, But but Eric Holder really reduced the disparity between powder cocaine and crack cocaine, which you know disproportionately assaulted us when you.
See it and market it well though, Okay.
What do you want the commercial? The product?
The commercial? Okay, it's a campaign, I understand, Look.
But I'm saying the product is more precious than the commercial, although we do need the commercial the campaign to articulate what it's done.
If I'm on further the body right now, everybody that I gave student loans, that really to right.
And commercials running over little bit within It's a bunk with these people.
Brother saying, hey, I got three hundred thousand dollars taking off my student loan deb now I'm able to open a business.
I would just have them constantly.
Against none of that, as they say, I'm not against any of that. But at the same time, we are sophisticated enough as the people to understand who in our corner who ain't and who can talk about it and who can't some things Joe Biden like say, for instance, I heard some critiques in the State of the Union. He didn't mention about DEI. That's because he understands that is such a flashpoint right now on the political trajectory that for him to endorse that only creates opportunities for
people to assault it. Not that we don't want it, not that we don't need it, not that we're not practicing it. We just look. I just saw recently where it was finally put into order that the Small Business Administration can't even have loans for African American people, got to open it up for white folks and others. I'm saying, this is the terrain on which we exist. Let's not pretend we don't know. We got to wink, yeah, yeah,
I got you. You ain't got to say everything you know, and you ain't got to say everything you doing.
You got to do it.
That's what I meant by the commercial versus the product. Let's get the praxis, the practice, the political order together, and then we can talk about what we say and what we're not saying. And look, I am for critique, I'm for pushing them. I'm for demanding that we do the right thing. But I'm also for understanding we in what April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November. That
ain't a whole bunch of time. So I'm saying there some times when we come together to forge a kind of unity, or at least provisional solidarity, where we operate in our best interest, knowing that we got to do
the right thing. If Angela Davis, one of the most radical and progressive voices in the history of America, especially Black America, and Noam Chomsky, one of the most progressive voices on the left ever, can both argue about supporting Joe Biden, it that at least should give us pause to all of the please mercenary interventions by narcissistic political figures who want to have their day in the sunlight as opposed to the best interest of black people in this country.
I think Donald Trump is a fascist. I think he's a threat to democracy. I don't think that, you know, anybody who calls himself a patriots should want somebody in the White House who wanted to suspend the Constitution to overthrow the results of Absolutely yes, But with all of that on the table, what do you say to people who say, so what, Well.
I mean, like, I'm just saying I'm just as Like, what do you say.
I hate to sound like the patriots on the right wing, but going somewhere where you think that's the case, bro, where you think it doesn't make a difference, where you can experience fascism up close, where the rule of law operates against you.
Oh, this country has no crime there.
That's because they gonna cut your arm off, bro, if they catch you in the wrong place, and given not breaking and entering inclinations, that would be very hard.
Now that's how you talk to people who are already in hell, because that's when I say, so what I mean, Like, there's people already living in hell in this country. So when you tell them that, yo, he's the threat of democracy, they were like, democracy ain't never worked for us, no.
Way, Yeah, but that's democracy ain't gonna get worse.
Well, first of all, if they in hell, you got to look at the conversation between Divies and Lazarus. Divies was a rich man in hell and Lazarus ends up going to heaven.
So I'm not saying there's a great reversal. But you tell people who.
Are in hell?
Do you want to get it hotter?
I mean there are degrees right, the sixth circle of hell if you read Dante. So the point is that you tell people, yeah, you in hell. But if you think you lonely, now wait.
Until the night.
You have a Bobby Womack theology. You've got to have a Bobby Womack theology. If you think it's bad, now wait until the night.
Girl.
So black people got to understand that there are degrees to this, right, and when we look at the degrees to this, yes, it is tough.
Child poverty is still real.
The attack on black women's bodies is still real, the dismissal of African American is still real. But it is. If it's bad, Now, what in the hell do you think is going to be when a fascist takes over, When a guy who doesn't even who's not even interested in your particular viewpoint or your suffering takes over. Yes, he can go to a darn Chick fil a right now and tell you that Joe Biden is the worst president in the history. That's another lie he's telling. So
if we don't think that it makes a difference. And look, it's hard for people who are suffering to hear that. But our people have always suffered, They've always been in hell. But they've always understood that if we use a certain kind of particular perspective to get a certain way, if we use a certain instrument to realize our ultimate ambitions. As Howard Thurman, the Great Mystic said, refuse the temptation to scale down your dreams to what you're experiencing right
now now. And enough Black people, And it wasn't rich black people who believe that. It wasn't it wasn't people who are wealthy who believe that. These are everyday people on the plantation, These are everyday folk in the hood. These are everyday people who are shared. They understood that Hope had a message, and the message was beyond what we can see and hear right now. There is something real. That's why all these preachers spend Sunday mornings talking about God.
You step out on nothing and something is there. It's not just magical kumbai ya, It's not abra kadabra. This is about the heart of hope that animates most Black activity in this country.
Afro pessimism is real.
I respect of Frank Wilderson, I respect the theorists of Afro pessimism because they tell us the stark truth that we need to grapple with. But there's been a tradition of hope within black people that makes no sense, that is not even justified. That is absurd, and Afro absurdism is a key to our survival. So Howard Thurman said, the wrong rows of cotton, the raw hide, e whip of the overseer. But our slave fore parents imagine a
different future. And this is what I want to say when black people, this is the words, Oh my God, is her Your mama's and daddy's, your great gad great grandmamas and great granddaddy's suffered far more than what we're suffering now. And if they had the possibility of nurturing hope in their breasts, we have the obligation to do the same.
If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your kids.
If you can't do it for your kids, remember Grandma in them and how you are the manifestation of their very hope. And to get caught in that Heller situation, you think you in hell? Imagine going out and working for seventeen hours a day. You think you in hell. Imagine having no rights and her ability to assert what your beliefs are. You think you in hell? What about when you had no choice but to do what a slave master told you when you were raped, that will,
without moral compunction or legal redress. That was hell. And in the midst of that hell, those black people held up and held out hope as our condition if they could do it. I ain't trying to hear nothing from people right now.
What do you think is fair or unfair in regards to critique of personality? Like what is considered fair unfairl Because I'm a person that believes you just can't say what you want to say and expect everybody to agree. Some people are going to like it, some people are not going to like it. And with social media math, people don't have an opinion about.
I mean, and look, critique is one thing that that means I'm engaging you. I'm talking to you, but you and I'm looking at what you said. I read what you said, I put it in context, and then I have a response. But that's different than you just assaulting me. That's just different than you saying stuff that ain't even true, making it up and here now we got deep fakes. We're worried about AI. The only AI I did is
Alan Iverson. Other than that, bro, it's rough. So the thing is this, we got deep fakes, we got lies, we got mendacities. Look at the convergence of the technology and the techniques of fascism. The technology facilitates and it's complicit with the spread of a certain kind of fascist reality because now we don't we're not sure it was real, was not? And Black people should be the last people taking allegations as convictions.
Lord, have mercy.
I mean, how can you just say something and then convict somebody black people, of all people. I heard Dominique Martissau, the great playwright say as bad and as jacked up as the criminal justice system is. I'll take that any day over somebody just saying something about you, and then that's taking his law. And that's across the board. That's whether it blm me to whatever.
The point is.
An allegation alone cannot substantiate or produce evidence to make a claim worthwhile. But we see this on social media, and let me tell you what I get. Look, people jump on me sometimes. Look I try to be nice to them. They say nasty stuff and I'm nice and they're embarrassed.
Some of them have no shame. I done wrote twenty five books. You wrote twenty five words. Dog, it ain't e. We're not the same, right, And.
That's not arrogant. That's I did the work. I actually studied, I thought about it, I reflect on it. That don't mean I'm right because people who have thought about it and studied on it are disagreeing with me. So disagreement is not the index of one lacking intelligence and one possessing it. It means that we have the considered reflection on a particular issue. And the Internet don't even create the need for that, the desire for that. We think
we can go on and read something. That's the beauty. The beauty of digital media is that you can have books or library books in your phone and you can read twenty five books. I used to have to carry them on the plane. Now you can put them in your kindle and read them. That's beautiful. The problem is when we when we had kind of the visceral interaction with the paparide the text, we had to read it. We went to the library because that's where the lies are buried. We went there to dig them up, and
we look at the card catalog. That ain't the kind of catalog you got when you got five hundred's numbers that night, and them cars were talking about we talking about one't eighty seven point nine.
That wasn't a local radio station. That was where social science was.
My point is there was something about earning that knowledge and digging for that knowledge and feeling that you couldn't just take it for granted.
And we have tremendous access now we know, we.
Have the possibility to know more than we've ever known before, and we know less than we've ever known because we don't have the same kind of curiosity because we think now because we can and say something to somebody, I like Charlemagne, the God, I can jack him up because I have access to him now. Before you had to go to this office write him a letter. He might not He might not have written you back, Doc, Dear Doctor King, I disagree with the integration.
Blah blah blah.
You don't have that kind of access. You didn't have that kind of access then that you have now. So it's as a marvel. But the problem is everybody got an opinion. Everybody thinks it's equally valuable. And because you can insult somebody. Do you think with the rhetorical capacity I possess, I couldn't evisterate you. You don't think I could do that too. You think that you're the only one who possesses the ability to call a MF and MF mother fo.
I grew up into hisze Rizi nizza briso.
I could get at you. I can cuss you out more than you think I can. But the point is I have restraints because I understand my power like a like a like an old gun slinger. When you come to town, put your registerial guns. I got a bazooka on my hip. I could eviscerate you. The point is, can we have common sense and civility? I know a lot people have said civility is a problematic because sometimes
you got to be disruptive. I get that, but I'm saying, for the most part, when you shutting people down and you don't want them to that's your yes, your go shut up? You know, and you're talking, shut up? What about when they shut you up? What about when you can't talk?
That can't help us.
It's like an eye for an eye as doctor King said, everybody be blind. So the point is, if we all shutting each other out, we all hollering each other, we're all protesting each other, can we ever speak? So I'm for speaking and listening. I'm not for cancel culture. I'm for engaging people. I'm for talking to other people, and I'm for saying, yes, let's talk and.
We can be critical confrontational conversation, I mean conversation, obal conferenceation.
How about that? Criticism is not jumping on you, being nasty about you saying you know what, Dyson, I noticed you said X, Y, and Z, but you didn't say this holding holding.
Me to account.
We should be able to do that. And I think that's why I mentioned about a Manda sales or I know you and I had a conversation about about the young Jonathan Owens and I posted yesterday and you know or right right Simon Bio's husband, and people kept saying, you ain't the whole conversation.
I listened to the whole conversation.
In fact, there's worse than that, because at one point he goes, look, she's the one who kind of you know, match with me, and something he says, she keeps saying she matched, but it was really her. I'm saying, bro, I'm not trying to dog Jonathan on us because that's look. I've been mad three times, clearly to black women. So clearly I see on the end of people be saying he got a white wife. I ain't mad if I had a white wife. I walk in the room with
a white wife. I ain't had no white wife. I wrote a book called Why I Love Black Women, so I done married three of them. My point is, so I got look the vast reservoir of failure I can share with you. I can talk to you about it. I'm saying, let's just put the young man on game. When you got a woman like that, This is the point you made again about intent versus consequence. You intent could have been funny, You inten could have been yeah, girl,
you were chasing me. Look at the consequence in the world where black women are bitches and holes and skeezers and slupts and dismissed and not recognized.
And not valued.
So when you say that, the reason I juxtaposed Trevor Kelsey, who's far more famous than you, young man, who says I'm just lucky that I even got a chance to holler her because you know about sports and everything like that, talking about Taylor Swift. I'm saying, the contradistinction is not to demoralize this young man, is to put you on game game, grown ass man energy in light, grown ass
man enlightenment. I'm sixty five years old, I'm officially grown, and I'm saying to you, bro, lift your woman up strategically, if not even substantively, understand that she is valuable to you. If this woman is one of the most famous gymnasts and arguably the greatest gymnasts in the history of gymnastic exploitation and performance, ain't nobody doubting that, then at least at this point, don't look like you're trying to to besmirch her. And again, it was a joke. I get
people who defend it. I understand that. At the end of the day, though, uplift that woman, elevate that woman, happy wife, happy life. And I'm sure he's having a beautiful time, he's doing beautiful things.
I wasn't trying to jam him up. I'm trying to say to young people.
However, in a culture where women have been demonized, stigmatized, and continue to be We got rappers talking about I only want to deal with a light skinned woman. I only you know, Kodak black er. You know, I don't want to deal with this woman and so on and so for and hurting her and looking at making the stallion and siding with a guy who shot her in
the foot. I'm just saying, this is the world in which black women live, and if we can't acknowledge that, and put on top of that the ability to get an abortion, you know who, that affects more than anybody us. So I'm just asking for a little consideration and a little knowledge dropping from an older man, That's all I'm.
Gonna I sent you another article with He is always gushing over her, and he is always pointing to her, but also to what if he was just telling.
This story she did? What if she did try to holler him that's why they got together.
But she she argued with him on She argued with him on say, she said, d ain't what happened. She said, you had already liked me, and because you liked me, then I therefore reached out.
I'm saying, and that, look, that's their business. I don't want to get into it. I thought the would joking, but I just wondered why he wasn't.
Joking at that point when he said, nah, you keep saying that I and even if he was. Look, my point is this, I'm not even trying to get in today thing. I'm trying to talk about the consequence of what might mean that brought an issue in terms of elevating black women. Black women get enough of? You ain't enough Black women get enough of. I don't care how much you got, you ain't whatever. And when he says I.
Always think the man is the catch, bro. Now that's classic definition of patriarchy. Bro.
I don't know what world you don't think when I always say the man is the catch, deconstruct that for me.
What does that mean?
Oh so you're dealing with Simon Bios, the most noteworthy gymnast in the history of America, but you still to catch. Now people say, well, he should have that kind of confidence. I ain't mad at your confidence. I'm saying, what is it about us as men that we can't acknowledge our women. We go to church, they already defering to us, ain't but five men in church, but they the deacon and the pastor and the cleaner and everything and the trustee.
Because women understand the fragile psychology of black men who have been emasculated in a white supremacist culture where another patriarch is a threat to another patriarch, they then already done that work. When I go out out here, and I'm sure you two, both of y'all, when you go out here and see black men's concerns being talked about, Susan Taylor is at the front of the line, right. Uh,
black women are always speaking up for black men. I'm saying, can we return the favor and what I mean by the broader society in a world where black women have been demonized, even the greatest of them have to be told that no, the man you got is the catch because you're living in a world where black women may not have access to the greatest amount of black men because of prison and choices and so on and so forth. I'm just saying, bro, at the end of the day, a little love, try a little tenderness.
Yeah, I think it's All's.
Another example to me is like the relationship thing. Keep that away from the strangers on social media. Let that be an inside conversation y'all laugh and joke about amongst each other's at dinner.
As soon as you bring it to social media, stuff like this happened.
But but I think it's helpful. They might not care.
It might be their relationship, they had jokes, their problem with their situation had.
I think it's hard not to kill when everybody jokes.
Jokes grow out of social situations, grow out of social value.
That's what they are, right, of course, because they reflect.
If I start a light on my relationship with my wife, people might think it's disrespectful, but it's me and my wife.
We joke all the time. You know, you're a great example.
And they put their book out and he said in his book that he had made his wife orgasm in a decade.
Right, Yeah, but that's on him. He should have kept himselves.
But that's on him. Women saying I didn't is a hero because most big I hear you. Because I couldn't do it for three years, I can do it for seven years. He's saying, I'm the one that's But he's.
Still made something public that he didn't have to make public.
But the reason I made it public is because of stories and conversations that I have with people when I do my podcast, and just see if you don't read it.
Wasn't the fact that I didn't make a come is the fact that I couldn't.
Make it come sexually orally. I was good money.
The problem was, and what I was trying to explain, he can run his mouth. He can run his mouth. Me and my wife and together since she was sixteen.
And what I was saying is most men need to have conversation, especially with this some because when I looked at sex.
I watched porn.
So I used to go in there like bang bang bang bang bang bang. It wasn't romantic, it wasn't physical. I was trying to be a porn star and it wasn't connecting. But once we figured that out, our relationship became better.
To these days.
What I'm saying, but wait a minute, but see the difference is his was a moment of vulnerability.
Correct, My man's moment was a moment of mach mo. Let's just be real.
I mean, you can joke, but the joke is reflective of a temperament, an idea, a politic, an ideology. And I'm saying again that's their business. You're right, because I ain't want to put my business out there because there's plenty of failures and flaws for people to pick apart.
My point is when I say game though, bruh.
Even if you believe that respect your woman, elevate your woman, understand that in a culture where she's already been demonized as a dark skinned black woman, that could be deeply and profoundly problematic as well.
And it wasn't ten years. I wouldn't say that wasn't ten years. You started to Michaelaeric Dyson, how you do? It's just hilarious. How you doing?
I'm good?
I heard all the bank bank, bank, bank, bang, what's going on?
What's going on? Let's let's talk about Beyonce Man and what she did with with with with Cowboy Carter?
What do you? What do you? What does it significant? You jumping? Did you come in case you heard something that you wanted to say? No? I was like, what's going on?
At first I heard the Cantons owns and Trump, Angela Davis.
You're talking about your father, and then it was like a lot going on.
Then I heard bank bank bank point.
I'm like, what what's going on? Mister Marcus is in the house.
I'm sorry, can still but.
Look what's the significance of what she has just done with this cowboy carter out.
It's incredible.
First of all, she's reunited a constituency of country music that has been alienated, like rock music. Black people right, not only the banjo in the Caribbean and in North America. Hearkening back with an ear to Africa, right, because it wasn't a same thing. It didn't come over here untranslated. We did stuff, We fiddled, no pun intended with it to make it what it is today. So black people have been in the country my daddy from the beginning.
My daddy was from George and mama from Alabama. We listened to the country and Detroit I'm Proud to be and Okie from Muscogee. We listening to people whose politics were diametrically opposed to ours. I love a lot of country people who, if they knew who I was, would find me reprehensible. So we understood the power of the music. Read Foley listening to this program, Hank Williams, Hey, good.
Looking, what you got cooking? How's about cooking something up with me?
Right? We listened to that. We listened to George Jones, he's stopped loving her today. Now we didn't see in the song he stopped loving her because he was dead. But that was an interesting thing. Or Lee Greenwood who Donald Trump has made a bible based on his song, So you know, I find him quite reprehensible, but his music was powerful. He was talking about a woman who cheated him. He said she had a ring on her finger, be time on her hands. Damn, come on, bright, I mean,
come on, I mean or or the song. You know, if I had killed you when I met you, I would have been out jail by now. I mean.
It's some great classics in there.
What right, there's some there's some gangst the country.
My point is, what what?
What?
What she did?
What Beyonce did was reintroduced. Allow me to reintroduce myself. Allow America to understand that country music, right, it's the white blues and blues might be.
The black country.
It's a similar aperture, it's a similar appetite, it's a similar perspective. And what she is introduced. She's from Houston. What do you think she listened to Besides R and B or soul and rock music and so on, she listened to country music to black folk music. And what she has done is introduce people to folks that they never even knew before. The black girls backing her up, Miss d you know, Britney Spencer, all of them. She introduced the Linda Martel, who was a great singer and songwriter.
She introduces a black woman, She introduced her to him to her. Think about Ray Charles. Ray Charles made an album what Songs of a Country in Western? Right, sounds of country and Western I'm getting the title wrong. But the country establishment rejected him, and yet he gave a greater audience to country music than it had for a long time. Beyonce is doing the same thing, even th
when some people might try to hate on her. The fact is she has made country cool as one of the artists things again, and she's made it viable, and she's made it controversial in the most productive fashion. That is to say, she's forced people to consider what is country? How do we define it? Is it Reba McIntyre? Is it Dolly pardon? She flips Dolly pardon. No, I ain't gonna say, hey, Joe Lean, you're taking my man. I'm saying I'm threatening you. You bet not touch him, so
she adds her Beyonce moment. She says, this is not a country album. It's a Beyonce album, which means I am the impresario of my own musical taste. They can include country music and I can dip down in it, show you I can do it, and then dip out and show you I can do other things. I think
what she's done is extraordinary. It's powerful, it's instructive, and again, like she does with most of her music, it helps us understand a history, an archive, a tradition, a trajectory, and the power of what she represents is far more than some sexy woman on the cover, even the cover with the American flag right the blue being obscured because of justice, as some have interpreted the blood flowing, her ability to be vulnerable at the same time to lay
claim to what it means to be an American. She's courageous, she's powerful, and that album is dope.
We had Alex randelon and she said she said the same thing about Rachel. She actually said, Beyonce is Ray Charles's daughter, because she speaks about the first family of Black country music.
She said, for the same.
Reason you said Ray Charles bought a brand new audience to country music, made the audience bigger.
Beyonce doing the same thing now she.
Is, I mean, and even the black people like, why are we doing that a cowboy head? Why she's doing like a white folk that's you don't even understand. They didn't white and ize Joe imagination so deep. You don't understand what y'all gave to the to the art home. And when I think about my friend Dennis sa Cher and his lovely wife, uh, they are out here the cheres, uh, you know.
Doing serious work. He's a cowboy champion.
She's an articulate spokeswoman, uh for not only cosmetics, but for country music. They started a radio you know. Uh uh not a radio, but a music group. They started their own record label. I mean, black people are doing a lot of stuff. They're dead with Dick Bill Pickett. I study these people in the fifth grade. My teacher made us study them. There's a long tradition of black cowboys, of black country artists, of people who've been doing stuff,
and yet we don't give them credit. And Beyonce has single handedly resurrected like she did would Act one when she delved into the history of dance right, you know, dance and house music, and to show the gay esthetic at the heart of that tradition, and now coming back with the country stuff and showing how we've been involved in it.
Just the level of her genius is remarkable.
I got one last question for you, because we talked about male vulnerability. You know, we saw J Cole recently apologize to Kendrick Lamar for some they was going back and forth on a record, right. I didn't have no problem with the apology. I feel like you know, if you if it didn't sit well when he said he didn't sit well with my spirit, I ain't got no nothing, just talk about it didn't.
Say well with his spirit? What do you think?
No, I saw you you were bringing about that give him the donkey other day out to people who don't understand it. What's interesting to me is how Kendrick Lamar has escaped all screw that. What's interesting to me is that he started this stuff right. Why is it that when both Drake and J Cole said with the Big Three, they're giving you love, bro, they saying you partly bigg No, it ain't no Big Three, it's Big me. Okay, I get it. That's the bravado of hip hop and so on.
I think Kendrick Lamar in many ways is Pac as he was Drake and Ja Cole as Poc as he could have been. And that's the class right, the evolution of Tupac. Right, he dies at what twenty five years old? I mean what would he have been at fifty?
Right?
The level of genius he already possessed. Tupac was one of the greatest intellectuals in the history of hip hop. Off Mike, he was cold on the mic, Somebody wake me, I'm dreaming, and started as a seed the semen swimming upstream planeted in the womb while screaming on the top was my pops, my mama, hollering, stopped from a single drop.
This is what they got.
Not to disrespect my people, but my papa was a loser, only planning that for Mama was the effort and abuser. And even as a seed, I could see his plan for me, stranded on welfare, another broken family.
He was dope. He would have to do together. You know so many songs.
We can do that.
We can do that.
But beyond that, his ability to explain, deconstruct and challenge politics. And that's why he's still relevant because he was so powerful. But he was also a Gemini, right or was he was? He? Yeah, and he had a lot of going on in his mind and he was he was provocative, he was viola to I think he was out of control in many ways. And that's why I think Kendrick Lamar had him narrate
right to Pimper Butterfly. Right, he's talking about Paca. I have a conversation with pop. One of the greatest acts of rhetorical appropriation in genius that is, uh, mister Kendrick Lamar's to Pimper Butterfly. But that's why he's He's attracted to that part of Tupac. I think j Cole and Drake are the more mature expression of a Pac who would see, you ain't got to kill everybody, you ain't got to dog everybody, You ain't got to be better
than everybody. Even jay Z said when he's on that song with with you know Lil Wayne my heir, so here is my wife and I you know, come harder, come faster, Why else?
Why bother?
It's right. The mature people, the ones who are in control of that stuff. They ain't got a damn man, because I know who I am. But Kendrick seems to be obsessed, even though he's got a pulletzer, even though he's brilliant, even though he's a genius. Even though I do think Rolling Stone had it wrong though Jay z won Kendrick two nds three, Yes, bro, you ain't got enough work, right, and you've got great work. But the work of Nids, the work of j that's on a different order.
So I'm saying Kendrick, it is too early.
He's a genius, he's in He's one of the top rappers ever. But I say all that to say, look, I think Jake Cole was mature. He wasn't. It was half hearted anyway, It's not my heart's not in it, because he could have destroyed him further than more than that he could have. J Cole is a surgeon with those words, he's he's precise, He's surgical in his strikes. Drake is a monster, right, Jake can't even responded. Maybe he'll respond to the name, Maybe Jake Cole. I don't
think j Cole will. Maybe it with metro booming and the future coming out again with their Deluxe. Maybe Kendrick has.
More to say.
I think you know, look, it was much sure to say I'm not gonna take this in a negative fashion. I don't even believe this guy because I love him and appreciate him. That should Shane Kendrick. I don't think it will. That should say to Kendrick, what am I doing wrong? That three men who are great two of them recognize me? But I have to be the only one in the sandlot to play with the toys because I'm the greatest. That's one way of talking about it.
But there are other ways of talking about masculinity. There are other ways of talking about greatness. There are other ways of speaking. Because Drake said he was the coldest, j Cole said he was the coldest, and Kendrick said he is the coldest. But they didn't do it at the expense of you. They didn't name your name to try to suggest that you are not the bell, whether the benchmark or the standard by which hip hop should
be judged. So I think it's a little bit more growing needs to be done by Kendrick Lamar to catch up with his rhetorical genius, his psychological disposition, because, as you said, well, when we look back, maybe four four four and mister bigness Morell big Stepper, I mean to me, Kingdom Come was a warm up for four four four that got rejected unfairly. The only beef I've ever had with jay Z is that put Kingdom Come higher on your list of your own albums because it was a
mature effort. When we look at Drake's take care, when we look at Maybe Even, nothing was ever the same. I mean, j Cole, Drake and Kendrick have made ingenious music and we ain't got to choose one over the other. We can have personal preferences for sure, but I think Kendrick Lamar needs to be challenged a little.
Bit to grow up. All right, Well, there you have it. Always a pleasure. I love Kendrick Lamar.
What I'm saying, appreciate you for joining us, Thank you all for having me.
It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club