Every day a week ago up the Breakfast Club, finish for y'all.
Done morning. Everybody's DJ Envy just hilarious. Charlamagne the guy we are the Breakfast Club. Lonla Roses here as well, and we got a special guest today on her birthday.
Birthday, that's right about miss.
Joy and read welcome, thank you? Are you feeling this morning?
I'm feeling so good on my birthday because look, I woke up looking fully made up and I just woke up like this. I just woke up and I just was fully made up and ready to go.
It's twenty five years.
Old, twenty I'm working today. You know, I'm type A. So I'm like, I'm just gonna work like normal. But last night we did like karaoke. We went out, we did like live ving karaoke.
I got my.
Little shop on with my friends and it was fun.
So yet and I bet it was early too. You ended like so back.
Went to sleep at three o'clock this morning after a little bit, you know, we hung out, so we were outside like.
Meet me and Charlotte by none.
I'm a night per done.
I don't even start to really wake up to like six pm. Really, I'm not a morning like this is tough for me.
Morning.
You're not used to the morning radio mornings are tough. I'm a night person. I don't even get really going until like six seven o'clock. Then I'm awake.
So that's why you do your show at night as well.
Yeah, I mean night, that's literally when I kind of come alive. I'm not Mornings are tough, like getting up, I fight my way out of bed. I have to fight my way out of that bed.
And you're celebrating the six month birthday in your show too.
Yeah, so the birth So it's just interesting enough that my birthday is today and the six month birthday of the show is tomorrow.
Wow.
Yeah, six months, and it feels like it's been longer, but it's only been six months.
What has been the six like out of six months? What's the thing that you were most grateful for in the journey of your show?
The support? Like, I mean, you know, because when you leave like a sort of formal corporate media situation, you have no idea whether people are, you know, we're really interested in the station and following the station or following you. And I'm just grateful for the love and support that we've gotten not only the people who've been willing to come on, but just the fact that people are like responding to it. I'm beyond grateful.
How is it independence been?
Though? I love it, especially now because this corporate media world, it's getting worse. It's getting harder for people to really kind of express themselves and be yourself, and I feel like it's not going in a good direction, you know. And so I'm just grateful to be free to do what I do, say what I want to say, and not worry about like a corporate overseer. I feel good.
Do you think they're attacks?
One?
Last one?
Do you think the attacks increased?
Because I noticed, especially with a lot of independent people, I see like independent gets attacked a lot more than what I've usually seen. And have you seen that for yourself as well?
I think independent gets attacked a lot more because people realize the effectiveness of it. I think once you know, Trump was helped so much by outside of corporate media, like he was really helped by podcast, he was really helped by independent media, some of whom people most people had never heard of unless you are in that world.
And I think once people realize the power of that now the focus is on it, you know what I mean, like the the eyes are on it now, so you know, but as far as a tax against me, it's just I mean, I can say I love puppies, and you know, jd Vance will be like, you're not grateful enough.
You know.
If Netflix absorbs Warner Brothers, right, what did that level of media consolidation mean for journalism, especially for a network like seeing It.
I'm actually glad CNN's not in the deal because so what they did, they're kind of doing the same thing they did with when Comcasts spun off MS the Artist formerly known as MSNBC. They separated them out and they put them in their own company and they called it spin Co, which is a bad name for a media company, but they called it Spinco for a while and then verse yone or whatever, and now it's miss now they've switched it up. They did this, they're doing the same
with CNN. So CNN is not in the deal, which I think is good because that size of a corporation I'm not sure has the right level of accountability to the people, and I worried about that a little bit, but it's not in the deal.
Now.
The question is who buys CNN and who absorbs it, and that is still an open question that could be bad news.
Yeah, because I thought I saw something with Trump said he had a list of seeing any ankles he wanted fired.
Yeah, and I mean, look at this point, he's in a way dictating what sky Dance does. He's dictating their editorial content. I mean, how is the editorial content of like the Tiffany network, that Walter Cronkite network being dictated out of the White House. That's already happening. If CNN falls into the hands of another of his cronies, he's gonna dictate what's on CNN. Like we're going in a bad direction.
He says, He's gonna be real involved in the approval of this Netflix deal.
Yes, and the Netflix president had to go have a personal conversation with Trump to get him to approve the deal because the Ellisons were also wanting to buy Warner and they were add and they're still lobbying to try to undo that deal so they can buy it. It's like, in the end, we're gonna have like five media companies. They're gonna own everything and own everything from social media to regular media. This is not good because the public
is not going to have anywhere to go. It's going to be like back in the day there were three networks. There'll be three networks again, but they'll all be in lined with the government.
So it's yeah, besides the government piece, right, I feel like it's always difficult.
To tell somebody what they can buy and what they can't. But how does that sit with you?
Right?
Take the government piece out right with Trump? Because Trump could be like, I'll approve this deal, but you got to fire this person, this person, this person. Right, So outside of that is it's hard to tell a me like a person what they can buy and what they can't buy, don't you think though?
But I think it depends because in the case of media, it's it's serving a public interest, right. And so if let's say everyone who buys a media company and saying, yeah, you can buy whatever you want. But then if it's all giving you only one one perspective, one size, and you can't get another perspective, there's nowhere else to go. So now you're locked in. You get this one perspective that just happens to be the same perspective as the President of the United States. And now we're North Korea,
because where can you get any alternative view? That's what That's what Victor Orbon did in Hungary. Basically all of the media is his perspective and only his perspective, and you can't get an alternative. That's a dangerous place, especially in this country. As diverse as this country is, how many views there are in the world, we should be able to get a variety of it. And for now, independent media is where you can go and get the alternative. As long as that stays free and clear, then I
guess we're good. But I don't think it's good for democracy for all of the major media companies to all line up and fall on their knees for the president. It's not a good look.
So you have to have like a Fox that's right.
Then you have to have an MSNBC that has a liberal Yeah, plant CNN is trying to play it down in the middle of nowadays.
But you got variety.
At least you have a variety of a choice. You can choose your own adventure. But I mean, if they're all aligned and they're all deciding they're going to serve the king, yeah, then we're stuck.
That's why it's kind of crazy to hear him talk about like he's nervous that Netflix will have like a monopoly because if he is able to control certain things, he and Donald Trump, it's almost like this is his monopoly on the media.
So exactly, such a.
I feel like he just said that because you know, you got to get his tribute.
Yeah, exactly, And I just assume he's getting paid off everything. He's like a my boss. It's like, what is his cut? You know? That's all? I think. That's all then to go. It's like all these pardons are like that. It's like when you see these you know, fraudsters getting pardoned, then you found out they wrote a check to these friends of Trump and they're all right in checks. He's selling
pardons out of the White House. This is crazy, but the Supreme Court that he could do it, so he's gonna do it.
What do you see like America looking like at the end of his vollyear turn though, what do.
You think a mess? Like a whole mess? Because the thing is, if they are robbing the treasury to enrich him and enrich his friends and enrich this small set of billionaires and leaving nothing for everyone else. You end up with a crab economy, people struggling, a lot, more poverty, a lot more hunger or want, and that's, you know, that's the seeds of revolution. You don't want to really make a lot of people poor while you're making a handful of people rich like that generally doesn't go well
for either the rich or the poor. So it doesn't look good. I think we're going toward Hungary, Russia, that kind of a country, and that's not what we want to be.
And then how long is the undo of everything for the next person is Yeah, damn. I can't imagine the job of the next president to have to fix this mess, because this is a mess like he's going to lead. I mean, I'm assuming twenty twenty six we end up in a recession. I'm just assuming that.
And I think people should brace themselves for the economy to get really bad, because when a small number of people get rich and you don't expand the middle, and when the bottom gets poorer, there's no way to sustain an economy like that that anybody can really benefit from. I mean, Trump is benefiting, his friends are benefiting who else.
It's not good, you know, I did last week.
I did the New York Times deal Book panel, and one of the questions that they asked, actually the first question they asked us, should we trust the media in twenty.
Twenty five, I trust it less and less. I definitely don't trust anything that's happening at s Guidance, and I'm sad about it, because, you know, I loved sixty Minutes. I grew up watching Dan Rather, you know, like I felt like, you know, I've worked at NBC, but I felt like seeing you know, CBS was a strong, solid news operation. I question it now when I see something coming out of that network, I'm not sure I believe it.
I'm not sure I wholly trust it. And I think their editorial decisions now are political, whereas I think it was a lie that they were political before. I think that the right just didn't like what they were saying, but I don't think they were political. I briefly worked at CBS and stands and practices they were not political, But I think they are now, and that's not good. I don't necessarily trust it now.
I think with everything that's happening, like you're talking about the independent media, like the new ring of media, there's gonna be a lot more of that. But like what I always think about is like when you work on television, you know, you have like FCC and all these like governing with independent media, there isn't that, So something will have.
To rise up.
And who's gonna like will that be Trump to figuring that out? Like what is that governing body that's going to rise up and rain over the independent media?
Because it will happen. Nothing goes unpoliced here.
Yeah, And I don't know what that could possibly be that you know, the independent media would even submit to. And then the question is how long is independent media independent? That's what I'm saying. No, we're one Elon Musk buying YouTube away from that going, you know, we're one, you know, David Ellison deciding he also would like to have control of substack, you know what I mean? Like at some point if it all consolidates, then we have nowhere to go.
We have no choices, and the regulating body is some billionaire that's regulating it for their own self interest. So I'm worried about that.
What do we do to regulate now? You know, because there's a lot of YouTubers out there, a lot of people that have their own shows that soon there are no facts. Yeah, and the problem with suing is it's easy to sue when you have money, but if you don't have money, it's just money out of your pocket. And a lot of these people, you know, they say they have money, but then when you see and they live at home with their mom, or they live in you know, they're renting, they don't have any money.
So it's suing for what you know.
So how do we regulate to make sure that what people are really spewing the facts?
I mean, it's impossible, and I think people that are the consumers of it, this is in a way what they want. People want to hear their own opinion reflected back to them, and that's what they're getting, you know. I even think about the Candace Owen's saying, this lady is out there way out on a limb with these with this French president and his wife, like way out on a limb, and she does not there's no regulating body to stop her from saying it. So she's just
saying it and digging herself deeper and deeper. At a certain point she's gonna get, you know, it's going to be financially impractical for her to continue to do this. Can she continue to afford to fight the president of France?
But long is that she wanted this to happen this way because if it gets to like a court or whatever, you'll have to certain things about to be laid out on the table. And she thinks that's where the truth that supports what she's saying will come out.
Does she really think that or is this just like a money making Yeah? And the thing is, even if they do prove what she's saying, why.
What is this that what she's saying is true?
Is it a crime or friends? You know? It's all for clicks. And that's the thing that does scare me is that some of the content isn't for truth or fact. It's just for clicks. It's just for attention. And the attention economy is the economy, and the way that she makes money is that she just gets attention to her content. And that's a bad incentive. It's a bad incentive for the truth. It's a bad incentive if you care about facts.
None of these things are good, Like none of the incentives are good right now, that's all bad.
That in ai right like I seen the video trending this weekend. Uh, these NYPD cops were arresting Ice agency. Yes, and it looks so real, but you know it couldn't happen. So it was like it was trending and people are leaving comments. Yeah, that's what more cops need to do it. I'm like, this is AI, guys, Like it's hard to see the real in AI. You can't tell.
You can't tell what is the music artist that's like it's a gospel artist that's like number one on the gospel charts, but it's not a human.
About this.
She does like R and B as well, but they've been saying her voice is like annoints.
It and she's like an AI, I don't want to hear it, like like you know what I mean, Like we don't even have real artists. We have, like you said, you have things that people are people are like hanging their hat on this. You know, Ice is gonna get arrested by the NYPD thinking it's real and it looks so real. Now when we get to elections next year, how much that content is going to be real. We've already had politicians used in fake AI, you know, commercials
and it's not them. They can make you say anything, make you do anything, like it's very hard to tell. It's very hard to tell. So now we all have to be experts in figuring out whether the humans we see on TV are humans.
Then they can use it another way too, like for things that actually like that humans are actually doing, and then they can use AI to cover it up.
To cover it up. You think about Hollywood, so many artists are out of work because they can just replace them with robots with AI. Like AI is eating up opportunity, like it's eating up you know, people's professions. You know, like my daughter's an artist. She won't even post on Instagram because AI starts scraping all of your art and all of a sudden, it's using it to create art that has no human owner and no human creator.
I saw.
I was at art Bozo this weekend. There was an exhibition that was all AI. Like the guy gives his emotion. He paints all these deceased people from his past, like family members and stuff like that. They have machines strapped to like these canvases, And I was like, who's giving a direction? They said he put his emotions and stuff into the tech product, whatever it is, and then AI creates all the drawings.
How do you put your emotions into a machine?
I think oddly, I don't know, but I was like, this is crazy, Like I was just watching it draw people's faces, like.
Like, so if voters can't tell was real anymore? Can democracy even function in the age AI?
I don't know how. I'm concerned, Like you know what I mean. I mean there, it's going to have to we have to figure out a way for it to function. We're too big of a country with too many people. A revolution here would be horrendous and bloody. You know, three hundred and fifty million Americans, and you know we already have AI assisted and you know sort of machine assisted deportation, Like you've got this surveillance company that nobody
knows anything about, that nobody had heard of it. Talent here that's helping surveil us, Like we're being surveiled through our phones. You now, we're already like past the tipping point where we have mass surveillance so that they can track and deport whoever they want. We have we have masked people arresting people on our streets. Like we're already so far gone that saving democracy is it's going to
be challenging. Even if you said AI aside, you know, and so many things, we've gone so far backwards that I worry that pulling us back is going to be hard, when on top of it, the side that wants authoritarianism has all of these very sophisticated systems and AI systems to track us, to surveil us, to kind of lock us out of democracy. And I'm concerned that it's going to be hard to pull it back.
You use the word authoritarianism.
At what point do people stop calling certain political transpolarization, Yeah, start calling them.
Fascism, you know what I mean? Yeah? And I think, and this is one of the reasons I am glad that I'm not in mainstream media. It's very difficult because the governing authorities over you say, and the standards and practices says, well, don't call that fascism, don't call that authoritarianism. Just call it a difference of political opinion. It's a difference.
It's not a difference of opinion. It's fascism. And I think more of us need to say it and just get used to saying it, because you can't fight something you can't name, you know, and if we're not naming it authoritarianism in fact, which is what it is. And they're not like subtle about it. They're being very clear. They want this is a white supremacist government. That's saying, if you are not a white Christian male, you are just not welcome in any institution. You're not welcome in academia,
You're not welcome in the military. We you know, the whole thing is, we're bombing boats in the Caribbean, Like, what is this? And it's being normalized as if this is a difference in politics. It's not.
I'm gonna tell why I get confused by it.
I do think that a lot of things that I see are authoritarian strategy. But when I see somebody like you know, President Biden say it's a threat to democracy, but then he's outside the White House saying welcome home. Or when I see you know, Zora Mundani call Donald Trump a fascist, but then say I can work with a fascist, I'm like, well, that's.
Not how I was taught. How fast I never fascism.
You can't work with a fascist like that's never worked in the history of mankind.
So sometimes we say these words.
But when we don't act upon these words, it kind of takes the meaning out of these words, I think.
And I think politics makes it difficult to fight fascism because you do actually have to deal still with the president like he's still the president unfortunately, you know, but I think you there's certain things that I think are I feel like Biden, what he did was worse, to be honest, because Biden spent an entire campaign telling us that Donald Trump was a threat to democracy, that Donald Trump was it, and then he right, the welcome home
thing was insane. You know, even Obama he can with him at the funeral like this is a normal guy who wants to arrest you, by the way, you know. I don't, Yeah, I think that because the politicians, particularly at that the older policy, I don't think they understand. I don't think they really think it's fascism authoritarism. I think they think it is different in politics. That's what I worry about.
That's how I feel about Mundanie too, because I feel like if you if you use those words while you're campaigning, like when you get in the when you know, get in ther you become the elected official and become mayor.
I understand, I understand you have to work with him.
Yeah, so maybe you shouldn't use that kind of language if you're going to tell us you can work with a fascist.
But that's not how fascism work.
What I'll give him credit for though, when he was point blank as even in his presence, is he a fascist? He was like yeah. He was like yeah. He was asked the press.
After he got a little pat and he was like, it's okay to call me that.
He's right. He wouldn't even let him finish his sentence because Trump was like, he fell in love with mom, Donnie in that moment. I'm not sure what happened. I really want to know what he said to him in the room, because Trump seemed to fall in love with him. But when he was on Meet the Press was either Meet the Press or CBS. This morning, I was on Meet the President. He was asked, point blank, is he a fascist? He's like yeah.
But that's when he said you could work with him, And that's why I got confused. I was like, since I've never seen somebody work with a fascist in history of mankind, and.
You know that's actually how you normalize.
Me, right, Well, I mean, the reality is the one time that you could say, well, I don't know if you would call him a FASTI he was definitely an authoritarian, was Stylin, And I mean FDR worked with Stalin. I mean you had khrush Chef worked with Kennedy. I mean, unfortunately, when you have a regime, you've got to deal with the regime. And I think if you're the mayor of New York City, you got to deal with the President
of United States. There's no getting around it. And so if you have an in the interest of your citizens, you're unfortunately gonna have to deal with this man. You have to deal with this president. The immigration issue alone is going to send him in a collision course with the White House. So I kind of understand what he's saying, he has to work with Biden was on his way out. He didn't have to work with Trump.
There's no there.
No presidents don't work with each other. You're literally handing over power to somebody. You're saying is dangerous, Mam, Donnie's not handing power over to Trump. He has to work with Trump. That's actually just a fact with when Biden did it to me, it was unnecessary that that kind of comity, that kind of like friendliness between two presidents was completely unnecessary. You are out of power, you on your way out, stand strong on what you said during
the campaign. There was no need for you to be generous to him. In the case of Mam Donnie, it's slightly different because you're coming into power and you do have to deal with that man. You have no choice.
I agree, But how do you ring the alarm that this is something different and not just a difference in politics.
Yeah, and that's why you're using words like fashion. Yeah, and he's gonna have to do that in power, like he's gonna have to particularly on the I mean now that Trump has deleted all Haitian Americans TPS, no more temporary protected status for anybody Haitian, like gone right, what they're doing to Venezuelan's And there's a lot in this city. So he now is going to be frontline trying to deal with fighting literal fascism and authoritarianism at his doorstep.
And so yeah, the question is going to be does he do it with that rhetoric and keep that rhetoric up or does he just fight it. I don't even think it matters what he says. At this point, he's gonna have to fight it. We cannot have this country become one giant kidnapping site where where this regime is
allowed to just kidnap people at will. Like that has to stop, and somebody has to stand up to on the you know, New York City happens to be, you know, the financial capital of the United States, and somebody has to put their foot down. And I'm hoping, I'm Donnie Will.
Do you think the public fully understands how much executive power Trump is wilding or are we sleepwalking into something you're reversal.
I think we're sleepwalking because you know what, I don't think people understood the powers of the presidency and that it was only constrained by the kind of belief in the system of other presidents. Like Trump is just stealing power that no one anticipated the president would have because he's just doing it. And it makes me think, well, damn, the Democrats were in there, they could have done a lot more shit. Who knew because who's gonna stop you, Like,
who's gonna stop him? Nobody? And so if now we realize the presidents he could be this powerful, it kind of makes me wish that previous presidents had actually used more power for good for good, Yeah yeah, because this dude is just stealing powers that were not even anticipated. I mean, and the Supreme Court is rubber stamping at all.
So it's like, oh shit, it turns out Obama shit had just like made put thirteen seats on the Supreme Court and you know put you know, I mean, I just I wonder what we could have done had previous presidents realize how much power they can.
If another Democrat goes in office, do you think another Democratic president will use his power they have to? Do you think that they will or do you think they will? I don't want to go against what the constitutions.
Unfortunately, I think it's that I think so too. I don't think democrats believe and use I think they're afraid to will power the way that Trump is willed in power. They think that he is he is outside the norm and they're gonna want to bring it back to the norm. That's how we ended up with Merrick Garland, who did nothing for four years.
Even Biden on the way out like if I'm on my way out, nah, I'm gonna pardon everybody that needs to be part and I'm gonna make sure everybody was what you're gonna.
Do, what you're gonna do.
Hate me anyway, you hate me anyway, you.
Hate me anyway. And it's like he parted. He did a select few pardons. There's so much more he could have done on his way out, but instead he's trying to welcome home the next president. I don't want to go too far, you know. Even so, yeah, I worry that democrats, just small sea constitutionally are not built to do what they need to do when they come.
Now, you said a name, just now, I'm sorry you said it. And this person needs a lot more smoke than he ever gets. And that's Merygarland.
Oh my god.
Like I don't know why Marrigarland escapes the smoke.
I don't understand why he escapes the smoke. Even the Epstein files thing, I'm like, wait a minute, you tell me. Nine months into this administration, the podcast guys are claiming they caught the mind.
Now.
I don't know if this young man is the person that put the pipe bombs in these I don't know, but I know they said we solved the case in nine months. Mary Garland was there for four years? What were you doing the Epstein files? Merrick, what were you doing for four years? You had the same evidence, the same files. Why did you release them? Like there's there's He took a year and a half to even start investigating Trump. For January he did an insurrection, and he's like,
let me start at the bottom. I'm going to arrest the cab driver who drove down to be in the insurrection, and I'll work my way up to the one to own the beauty salon, and then I'll work my way. It took him a year and a half to get the Trump. This man had classified doctors at his house for eighteen months while they were begging, please, will you bring him back? Asked nicely, bring him back, Mary? Garland did to me nothing for four years. He might as well not have been there.
And when President Biden left the White House, he said he should have hired a different attorney general that would have went after Trump a lot sooner.
I'm like, well, Dad, why did you fire them there? Exactly why did you fire them? I mean between that and sitting there while the genocide happened under your watch, And I mean that by knowns that. So I think about that Biden presidency as just one four year lost opportunity. Love the infrastructure bill, but other than that, it's like, what did you do with your time? While Trump is running rough shot over the Constitution, he sat there, Yeah, I need sixty votes to get anything done. It does
make it. And I remember you used to say this during the time. It's like, it's frustrating when Democrats say I can't And I was even one who say, you know, they don't have sixty votes in the Senate. But now I'm realizing they didn't need him. They literally could have just don I mean, who knew.
I don't think a lot of people didn't know.
We had Congressman not Green here and we asked him like, did you know a president could wild this much power beforehand?
And he was like, no, I'm a lawyer. So Congress now Green don't know how we fosed to know.
We didn't know. I mean, and I thought it was pretty conversion in the Constitution. But Trump, I mean, we thought the emolument's clause was real. Wasn't real. You know, you can sell Brock, you can sell pardons who knew like they're literally he's doing everything you think would be a criminal offense in the White House with the Supreme Court of the United States literally rubber stamping it. So I guess if you're a Republican, you can do it.
Well, maybe this stuff is a crime, but just the Supreme Court gave him that presidential immunity.
Because they're Republicans and they want Republicans to win.
Yeah, So I wonder if before the presidential see this is great, this is the fact that we're even having this conversation. I wonder if before the presidential immunity was just stuff for legal.
It had to have been illegal. But I think, I mean, I only think it's being allowed because they're Republicans and he's a Republican, and genre if you know anything about John Roberts, you know he's a Republican first and foremost. He does not believe in the Voting Rights Act, never has and these are the outcomes he wants. They want a king. They're monarchists. They don't believe in democracy. They want a monarchy. They just want it to be a
Republican monarchy. Because I promise if a Democrat was doing this, they would say none of that's legal.
But they want that.
But do they want that person to be Trump, because I feel like there's certain things that he does that even on the Republican side, they're like, mmm, hold up, wait, Like I think they want the time, like the the overall control of what you're talking about. But I don't know if they really want it to be like Trump, like I know charlae Is talked about that before, like them trying to move him out the way and kind of take back and get back to now.
I think to be he's the perfect. He is a use he is the perfect useful idiot for people like the Project twenty twenty five authors. He's ideal, Like he's even better than Bush because you want somebody it's not too smart necessarily, but that beguiles the base. The base loves Trump. He does there's something about him that they just love. Style. They love they love the way he talks, the way he does his you know, geriatric dance. They
love it. They love it. And because the base loves it, you can slide a lot of stuff past them that hurt them. You can hurt these people and they'll love it. They'll thank you for it because they like him. So he's perfect. And Bush was like that like people are like, man, Bush is dumb. That was perfect because the right wanted to do massive tax because they wanted to do surveillance. They started that surveillance under him. They wanted to do foreign wars for money, you know, wars for oil. They
wanted to do. Bush is the perfect foil because he's just a goof that. Americans on the right loved Trump is that times ten plus a celebrity. So I think they loved and they'll keep Trump around as long as they can. They might weakend it, bernies him to keep him around because he's the perfect useful idiot basically for what they want. The base loves it. And so you can think about what you're sliding past these people. You're taking their cattle farms and making them bankrupt. You slide
in tariffs that make everything expensive. You're destroying people economically, and they're thanking you for it because they love Trump. So I think they want Trump forever if they could keep them. What do you?
What do you?
I'm switching talking about Want to talk about Puffy for a second. Oh my god, exhausting.
We talk about that all day.
I used to call Trump the Puffy of politics for years. I would call him the Puffy of politics, and nobody ever should understood why they're the same person.
Damn, if you think about it, I can see what you mean by that, like the arrogance, the.
Arrogance, and then they don't have a specific talent. Their talent is using the people with talent to get what they want, right, Like Puffy is not a producer, He's not. No, he hires producers, doesn't pay them, makes him sign N d a's, but he takes the crew and then he goes on and says I like that on the song. And now he's also the artist.
So what is all this with him and the you know he we've seen him like direct people how to do this, how to sing it this way and that, you know, just how it sounds phonetically and how it's coming.
Like that's not a producer.
Yeah, I think I think the Puffy not having no talent thing is kind of a little scratch. So we've seen him pick songs and be like, yo, I want to turn this into such and such record.
I know he's a marketing genius, so is Trump? Like that's something they're the same person. They're both marketing genius.
He's saying he's not pushing the button instead like he's okay.
Producer, right, you know what I mean, Like he's not like a rapper, but he craved to be the talent. But he really is the marketer. But it's like when the marketer wants to be the product and he fought to me to the death of a lot of people to get to be the talent when he's actually the
marketer and he's a genius at that. I'm gonna give him credit for that, but it's in terms of it's like he had this great envy of the talented artist that he saw around him, you know, especially Tupac, and he wanted to be Tupac, like beloved like Tupac, Talented like Tupac. He wanted to be Biggie instead of just market Biggie. And it's like he fought his way through a lot of dead bodies to be the artist. It's so tragic on so many levels. And it's I mean, it was brilliantly done.
It was great, and I mean he is he is an executive, like he was able to find talent, put talent together and make those but as far as being an actual producer, someone who sits there plugs in the keyboard and none that wasn't he never said anything.
What do you think it says about America that a documentary about Diddy and even even black culture to that that can dominate Netflix at a moment when like black history is being restricted in school. I just saw Trump get rid of Martin Luther King Jr. And Junior teenth at Parks and replace it with like.
It's so amazing to me because I've been noticing when I've been scrolling through Netflix, it's a lot of content that's not black, you know, and it's like that it's all all white cats and everything. But the number one thing on there is this documentar about this black man in other countries to not just here, not just here.
So it's like they don't want, they don't want us to be centered, but we're still centered because black folks make culture, like American culture without black people is just stale, like secondary European culture, you know, And so they want they don't maybe they don't want us, but they need us because look at this thing dominating. It's amazing and it's a fascinating, well done story.
It was that cultural power ever translating the political power, do you think.
I hope so. I hope so, But I think we actually have to think differently too, you know what I mean. Like, I love Magic Johnson, but you know, you know, it's great to shop for kids for Christmas. But did it have to be Target? You know, in a moment when we're trying to stand up for our dignity against companies like Target that don't respect us. It's disappointing, you know that he would lean into Target in this moment, you know what I mean?
Yeah, bring whatever.
So his foundation they do a thing where they shop for holiday gifts for kids, which is wonderful and it's great that they do that, and they've been doing it for a few I mean probably a few years, but it's with Target, and so in this moment, it's like, Ooh, does it have to be with Target specifically? And maybe they just had a multi year deal. I have no idea, but it's just we're not unified enough to turn it into political power. I think we're not on the same
page enough. You know, if we could marshal one trillion plus dollars in economic power, and we were together and we had a plan, we would be unstoppable. But I just don't think we're there. I wish we were. I would love us to be there.
So do you think because there's been a debate about if fifty cent is wrong for being a part of the doc as a black man, do you think that's wrong or right?
I think it's wrong what Puffy allegedly did. I think the things he did allegedly were horrific, and I think those things had to come out. It didn't help us to like hide what we knew about r Kelly, you know what I mean? Who did that help? It just hurt little young girls and so you know, it didn't help for on the other side people to hide with they knew about Epstein and m and let them roll. So I think we have to expose the things in our even in our culture, that are hurting us. That
wasn't helping anybody. Where's Mace's money, you know? But Create mag died with no money? Like that's not right.
But let me ask you a questions. I agree with you. I think that you should expose. I think people should see my question. And I think this was the hardest thing for me, right and people whatever, they call me a glazer for Diddy, but it's not true. My problem was what he was convicted of. But he was found guilty of the time that he got. Is that too
much because he was hiring a prostitute? Well allegedly, right, But usually the prostitute gets time and the pimp gets time, and the john usually gets a slap on the risk community service and they have to go to some course for whatever sex whatever. But in this case, it seems like the crime, I guess the time doesn't fit the crime.
So I think the same and want I want to say it's the same exact he was convicted of the same thing Epstein was, you know what I mean, Like, I think they used I believe in both cases it was man that kind of Epstein wasn't convicted of the man at Epstein was convicted of basically soliciting, and so was Puffy versions of that, right, And I think those cases were mischarged. In both of those cases. I think the prosecutors failed the victims. In both of those cases.
Epstein should have not been convicted of some sort of solicitation of prostitution. Those girls weren't prostitutes. They were children, you know, they were kids, but they were like they were sort of portrayed as prostitutes, was.
Charged with sex trafficking of miners.
Sex trafficking, but he was charged of sex traffic of miners the second time federally in Florida when he was actually convicted, he was convicted of a basically a solicitation charge. Then he was federally charged with trafficking and never you know, obviously because he never made it to trial. But you know, that was his original conviction, and then Puffy's conviction here what he was they almost overcharged it and undercharged it,
you know what I mean. They were never gonna prove Rico like that just didn't seem like they could prove that. But I also think they failed. There were real victims here, and I just think I don't think they charged with the right things. I don't think it makes Puffy innocent, because I don't.
Think he was innocent, but it just it seems like for what he was charged with, what he was found guilty of, it seems a lot worse than what he's doing time for he got off.
For me watching The Doctor, I'm like, uh, well, I kind of felt that way before I watched the documentary, and then the way that Emmy feels and then after watching I'm like, man, this nigga skating.
Then like it's really decades, this is a time out.
Everything is true in this documentary documentary. It's like, Yo, you still kind of like God, favorite is what it seemed like you're not getting.
No, no God.
But then you get what I'm saying though, It's like it's only a very few that you know what I'm saying.
That's why I say he's trong, right, And I'm like the just the tupocket biggie parts of it, if he was in any way involved and somebody there's a og fan of both to iamb I mean, and I always felt a funny about him and the way they were pushing that East coast West coast because the West Coast artists were really not trying to be a part of that. They were really trying to pull back from it, you know.
I mean, say what you want about Snoop, but Snoop was trying to pull back from it, like they were not trying to lean into the East coast West coast, but Puffy was and was benefiting from it again marketing genius. They were using it for marketing, and in that month I don't know if y'all remember that time. It was ugly, but it wasn't two sided, And so I had an issue with him even from then because of that. And I didn't even know who he was until that stampede.
That's how I found out who Puffy was. So I was never a fan only because I was like, that was crazy. I forgot it was nine people that died. So you just add up all of the pain he has caused. I think he got off easy. I'm sorry, dragging Cassie across the floor like a rag doll, beating her up. I'm like, they just charged them wrong.
What should his charges? What should they have been?
Assault? Battery? You know? I mean, like they didn't charge anything like that, So they didn't give the jury enough to convict them on, Like was there some in California? So there you go, there you go. I don't know what you could have charged them with. I don't know, but I don't think Rico was going to work like I don't think they had that. But I think he got off easy based on with you, based on just if everything in that dock is true, he got a license.
You think politicians need that type of spectacle moving forward in order just to cut through.
Yeah, the attention economy thing is real, Like it's real, Like Americans have been trained on a certain kind of attention and they lose their very short attention spans and people can't pay attention to stuff. Although I'm surprised, Like we do a two hour show and we used to be one hours, And I'm like, are people going to sit and listen to ours? And literally people will sit and listening to Like people actually have a longer attention span than we give him credit for, you know this show.
You know what I mean. People will listen for a while if they're interested in what you're saying. So people can have a long attention span. But for politicians it's increased. From Kennedy on. They need celebrity. You know, Kennedy beats Nixon because he's a celebrity. I mean, he's a celebrity. He's young, he's good looking. The other guy's old and sweating.
You know, you can't beat that, you can. And then Bill Clinton he's out there playing the SAgs of hoone like he's entertaining, and it just gets Ronald Reagan actor
and it's like we keep on pushing the politicians. Obama, you know, Obama's out there sinking threes and you know he got you know, will I am making a song about his jugu listen, and it's like, now we've like and then you get to Trump, who's like a literal celebrity who's from the Apprentice, and everybody's like, I know him, even though everything about the Apprentice was false, like he was broke when he did the Apprentice, but nobody knew to act like he was rich, and it's like, no,
he was actually broke, so no one knew. It's just and it's so artificial that I'm like, what are we going to have to do? Look what Gavin is doing. Gavin Newsom is like, got it, understand the assignment. I need to be entertaining. I need to be atroll because he knows that's the way to win.
So have we fully crossed into spectacle politics where entertainment value outruns policies?
Unfortunately? I think so yeah, I don't know how we go back. Can you imagine just like a normal nerdy, like smart politician winning. I can't imagine that Mam Donnie was entertaining as helf His ads were so entertaining, like you've got to be authentic and entertaining. That's what people need, that's what people want.
How do right now in this moment, how does Mandani or whoever use what's happened in New York with Diddy to further whatever did he So he's locked up now, right, but there's gonna be conversations about if he gets in a pill, if he comes home.
Is there a way that they use this moment.
I'm donnie whoever politically to further what they have going on, because there are still a lot of people who feel like, did he wasn't charged the way he should have been. There are people that feel like it's unfair that he even has an appeal.
Conversation, which is his legal right, Like there's a lot of people still.
Upset to do that.
Well, this politician is in general like using this moment because it's so big, like.
Trump, and I'm just assuming he's he's already writing that check.
Like when Mayor Adams took the keyback, people were pissed. They're like, he took too long to do that, and if he had moved faster, it would have made a difference. Like I guess I'm just asking in general, how do you capitalize off a moment like this if we need those spectacles and politics.
Well, I mean, the thing is, you have to remember, like I think, the only reason that Cassie was able to do her lawsuit in the first place is because, you know, the New York State. New York State opened up that that law that allowed you to do back cases. They opened up the statute of limitations e g. And Carroll gets in there first, actually wins a case against Trump. That's how that opened it up, and then she, you know, all of these other cases, including Cassie's, followed. So I
think there's a public policy conversation. Opening that up was actually a big deal because it did allow women who were too scared to come forward back in the day, and a lot of this was in the nineties. A lot of this was in like you know, that era when it was kind of open season on women and you know, in entertainment unfortunately, but they were able to then get their cases heard because they were from the nineties.
More of that kind of public policy he probably needs to happen, I would say that would be what it is, because there's nothing you Trump is probably gonna parten. We know he's right in the check to get his pardon, right, Like, as soon as that check leers or the money gets into Trump account or whatever he's doing to get I'm sure he'll get a parton Because also remember James Comy's daughter. I believe it was the prosecutor in the case got she was fired after I fired.
That's what made me think of it, because I thought about the fact that during it she was fired. That didn't work out well for the DA's in New York. It made them look stupid.
But at the same time, Trump hates the Komis so much that he would almost pardon him just to write, just to just to crab on her, Like I could see it, you know. So I'm assuming he gets a pardon, there's probably nothing we could do. Question for me culturally, does he get to come back.
We'll come back as what.
I don't know.
That, that was my question I asked, And I'm like, what does he do when he comes home? Yeah? What does he do?
Yeah?
I don't know what he could come back as, because I mean, if you think about it, you know, it was the liquor that kept him very relevant. You know, that's revolt that's going Yeah, it wasn't the music, right. I don't know what he could I really don't know what he could do. I have no idea.
Jokingly, I heard somebody say and they just said it jokingly, like a few years ago. One of celebrity a few months ago, one of the celebrities like if he got to start his own church, like literally, and and it was a joke, but I mean that's the only thing he just got to turn completely toward.
He could do poorn. Somebody said that to me too.
They was like, yo, he might as well lean off all the way into start a website that's like an only fans call him back boy, and people on there just doing wild freaking stuff, don't I don't know, But.
I will say too that as a culture, we're very forgiven when it comes to people.
Yeah, and I think.
Celebrity give people quick. They forget when people do.
You see they the jury is like a superman. She was a superman.
What's wrong with you?
Girl?
I think she was with number three or whatever she was. She was such a fan. And my thing is like, how was she able to stay on.
The junior jury?
But even the jurors that like the other guy in the doctor said he didn't know what was and during jury selection, they were asking celebrity and they hes trying to make sure that like you didn't know as much to see how much you knew. In my mind, I'm thinking, even if you walk in here not knowing who he is, if all of this is happening, you can tell they're going out their way to make sure you don't understand celebrity.
You're going to start being like, Okay, what's the selection They're not They're.
Going home and everybody's like, oh my, the case you're on it, you know what I mean? Like they didn't even squashed the jury, like they built that for him. But that's what I'm saying. That is the level of privilege he had that he literally he's been getting away with stuff so long he knew he would. I mean, the fact that you have cameras follow when you're around every day and then don't think you should pay them.
That was crazy.
That's that's crazy, Like that's a level of arrogance.
That's insane, because we wouldn't even have this doc page the video, just.
Pay the videographer, Like do you not understand that they own that footage? So it's like just the arrogance. So I don't know where he would come back, but I think he would have the I feel like he would have the balls to try to come back. I'm trying to.
Still got such a fan base. People are like hating fifty cent. People are not believing anything like.
Cent didn't make the film right, like it's not the Executiveroducer.
But like his he got that man got a strong cult fand what.
I'm saying, you know what I'm say, I don't know what he can do for money, Like, yeah, I know people will still like him do for money.
I don't know.
I think there's going to be something like visually, like he's going to try to do like a whole Here's what my life was like, here's what I've learned, because people will watch. So wherever you could get money off of, like people document.
Has he ever not had an ego? Yeah? You know what I mean. Always because it's cripple now was crushed.
They'll be in your artice that they'll work with.
And the reason I say that is because if he has a he has an air, they'll just be behind the scenes.
You'll never see him in the face and you look.
Up but he also has like a hundred losses at breaking gonna have to be like who's gay?
Is the dickens Like, it's gonna have to be somebody who's like not afraid, like let's get freaky.
Is it that the guy is gonna have to.
Be a young gay guy who like who has been taking it, you know? And that is because you can't scare a person like that.
But who also doesn't worry about getting paid. I mean the piece about him, not that part paying his people the producers that do. I mean like him, had you produce a whole album and you got sixty seven dollars in your bank account or you having to ask right when Craig Man had to said sixty yes, happen to ask him for one hundred dollars. This is humiliating. You
have a Grammy nominator like he was. He was not with the I want to say, maybe the worst part the whole, the two part Biggie thing shook me for like I lost sleep over it. But when that sister that was in that dirt Diddy dirty money said I need five thousand dollars, yeah, to try to hold on to my child, And he said, can't help you and then we're doing.
That like a week later, and said, hey, I need you to do this for me.
And didn't even had the balls to tell her, I know you were jumping a casket if a nigga was to die right now, And she said yeah, yeah, and she did.
And that goes to what MP's talking about is the celebrity thing of it. And I also think because even in court, like people would testify and it be at the end like but I still love him.
There's this weird I don't know.
It's like the celebrity and the lifestyle that he's afforded a lot of people. I think people hold on to it.
It's a very weird attachment.
It's a childhood memory too though, right because you figure, for a lot of people the nineties and two thousands of the year they grew up, so they remember so much of it, right, even like you look at all Kelly, are the worst stuff that oh Kelly did. When you hear a song, it brings you back to a moment of time, right, you know. I mean Stepping the Name of Love was the song me and my wife and my daughter danced to. So when I hear it, it
brings me back there. It doesn't bring me back to the guy that Pete on a young girl, you know what I mean.
So it's.
But it's hard for me though, because you know what, I love that era. I love that era of hip hop. I think it was probably the greatest era hip hop is probably ninety three to like two thousand and three, you know what I mean. Like that era was such a strong era and hipop. It's such a part of my memory. My kids were all born in the nineties, so it's like it was a part of even my memories of my children, Like this was like part of
our lot. I mean, when Tupac and Biggie died, I was like I cried, like I knew them, you know what I mean. But it's like I can't go back and listen to Biggie songs without having him all in the song. And it turns out sug who everybody thought was the villain at the time, he was trying to tell us the truth. He's all in the song. So I'm trying to listen to Biggie and he's all up
in the music. You can't escape him. He's made it so he meshed himself so much in that music that you can't even enjoy it without having me confronted by him, which I actually resent because I was not a fan of what he did to hip hop. Like you know, I love try call quest If you go listen to a Tribe song. They got forty samples in the song. You have no idea what it is. You have to really use your brain and think and figure out what of those samples. He would just rinse the whole song.
It's like, here's a whole song and let me just go ahead and rap over it like that was. I didn't love that for hip hop at all, and I don't love the way he's so enmessed in the music. I love, you know it bothers me from home, Brooklyn, Brooklyn I grew Yeah, but I moved back to Brooklyn when I was eighteen. So I grew up in Denver, Colorado. Left when I was two, went to Denver, came back at eighteen, and then lived here for a decade. Time bad look, but you know what, there's so many bad
boy artists. I mean, I thought one twelve, well, what was? I loved one twelve like a lot. Craig Mac I love that, you know, flavor and your remix like this is like it's classic music, and I'm you know, but it's hard to confront, Like how do I deal with it? You know what I mean?
I mean because as you just said, it's too much music attached. You didn't. I can't do that. I'm not even trying to go down that road. That's too much.
I got to give up Joas, giving up uptown and bad.
I'm not doing.
That's the crazy thing in me. I'm I'm such a baby.
I had no idea until I started working here that One twelve was his work.
I had no idea that the only one who really to me escaped the whole clutches was Mary. Like Mary came out of it, even though she had a lot of challenges. But I mean she had Angelo Lerb like she had other people around her. But you think about the groups, where are they? Where is one twelve? Where is Jodasy? One of the greatest R and.
B groups was just up there?
But Joasy, you're.
Right where his Farns were Bentley. But that's not a it's not that's not a single.
Of all the stuff.
Farns worth the smartest. Leave me alone. I got my kids and my wife my family moved on. He just moved on.
He wasn't even in it.
What did you think about going back to Trump? About him getting his peace prize.
Up and down?
It's the fun to me, this is the funniest story. This is what we're doing tonight on the show because I find this to be the most hilarious thing. This poor man is living his bucket list. I'm like, I don't know if he's sick or not well, but he really is doing like a bucket list thing where he's like, I have all these things. I want to be a billionaire.
They're like, here man has some crypto like they're just feeding him stuff on his bucket list to make him happy because they just want him to just be happy. So he's staying playing traffic while they run the country. Right. This man wanted to Nobel Peace Prize so badly he couldn't get it. He's like I've saw twelve vords, like no, you haven't. And he's so needy and pathetic that he wants a peace prize and FIFA knew how to play him. They are like, we'll just invent a peace prize. Let
me just give it to you. Because literally they are one of the most corrupt organizations in history. If you love soccer, FIFA is mad corrupt, really crazy corrupt. There's so many scandals and bribery scandals about like who gets the World Cup and what cities get it and a bribery like FIFA is scandalized for years for being corrupt. The man who runs FIFA comes over and hands Trump
made up gold medal. You know, like when you like somebody just want you to come to an event and they give you an award, and that award is you the first one to get it right, because they just wanted you to come. Get you.
The La Times was saying that a part of them making it up too is because they're trying to make sure that they don't have like interference with a lot of the stuff they have coming in, Like they're trying to make friends with.
Him because when so, the World Cup is coming in twenty twenty six to the United States. It's gonna be in the Canada, Mexico and the US. Trump had already threatened they're gonna have ice at the games, because who plays in a World Cup? A lot of Latin you know, a lot of Africans, a lot of it's a lot of black and brown people. Most of the stars are black, even in like the French team, all the stars are black. Like all the Italian teams, all the stars are black.
So you're talking about a lot of black and brown people coming here to play soccer, and they're going to be in all these different cities. He's threatening to take the World Cup match games away from blue cities. He doesn't like if they don't let him do immigration stuff. He's throwing all the threats out, the usual Trump shit, and so the reaction of FIFA is they don't want the World Cup disrupted. So they're like, here's how we can tame him. We'll just give him a fake prize
that we made up for him. It's pathetic. It's like the most pathetic thing a president has ever done. It's sad. It's like in order, and he's so.
O I'm so honored.
Let me just accept, let me put it on right now. I don't even want to wait. I'm gonna put it on me right now. And it's like, dude, that's not a real peace prize. It's not real. They've made it up. But he's so glorified, he feels so glorified.
It's empathetic when you think about the public conversation that was around you know, Biden's you know age, and you're starting to be a public conversation around Trump's age and stamina and stuff like that. Are we having an honest enough conversation about age and leadership?
No? I mean, and first of all, they're just I'm like, where is Jake Tapper on this? This dude is sundown ing. We had a guy on who's who's the founder of duty to Warn? John Gartner? Doctor John Gardner. He's a psychotherapist. This is this is what his specialty is, and he is like, from a clinician's point of view, this man is sundowning. He has cognitive decline that you can see screaming at reporters, calling people piggy, yelling at them like this is like not even how he used to be
ten years ago. His his his sort of verbal acuity has gone down. His the sort of range of words in his you know that he can access in his vocabulary has been decreased. Like he clearly is in the cline and no one is sounding along that they did with Biden. Biden with shambling and shuffling and we could see it was all but with Trump, like the decline is like in your face and we're not having this conversation and we're not saying do we trust him with the button?
Yeah? I wonder that's a good point.
I wonder what trump the difference between Trump and Biden Biden was in office and was campaigning again, I wonder if we saw this on the campaign trail, what the conversation would have.
Been, Like, I mean, but we did see it on the campaign trail. With Trump, it's just that everyone would stay and watch him. So like he did a Fox interview. Do you remember the interview he did? It was like a barbershop type of thing. It was like he was in like a like a barber shop sort of situation and he's talking to all these different and it was like really cut short on Fox. But if you watch
the longer clips, he's just rambling. Like if it was your grandpa, you would be like you need your medications or then you know, like this guy works from noon to five pm. That's a five hour day. The presidency
is like a twenty four hour day job. He works five Clearly, the marks on his hands, the cankles, he's not well, and that's like no one wants to They were pretending that he's not declining before us, and he has three more years at least, and he wants to stay in and be he claims he gonna run again at twenty twenty eight.
Would give me another ridiculous conversation. I don't even if people should be entertaining that conversation. Like that's when I get mad at media because I'm like, stop having that conversation. Let people know this cannot can't happen. Unconstitutional, Right, it's against the law, except.
If he just stayed in office. Who loan check and move but the military. But that's the.
Thing saying that he can't do it. What other things that we not know that he can't do that, he's just doing them.
So it's like that's what I worry about.
Some people are scared maybe he is going to run again, because yeah, by law, you can't.
You can't run more than twice, right, you cannot run. He can't even run as vice president because he would be eligible to be president if anything happened to the present, Like he can't do any of it. But my question is maybe he just stays. I mean, the last time he tried. If you think about what he did in twenty twenty one, he didn't try to run again. He just tried to not leave. Yeah hmmm, So I mean he did try this before, and now he got away with that pardoned all the people who helped him try
to He tried to just not leave. So why wouldn't he try it again now that he's been affirmed by the Supreme Court that there was nothing wrong with that, that he cannot commit a crime, that he can kill someone with Seal Team six and he literally is killing boats with Seal Team six, which is what the Supreme Court that he could do. They said he could sell pardons. He's doing that, we think. I mean, I don't know if he's selling them, but somebody's selling his transacting money
for pardons to happen. He's doing whatever he wants. So if he decides I'm gonna repeat my twenty twenty one thing and just not leave, Hugo, check them boo. I'm just wondering who's going to be that person that's gonna check him. I'm not sure not the Supreme Court. Won't they just be like, you know, we read the Constitution and we realized that maybe Trump could just stay like, are they going to stop them? That's what I'm saying.
In the early stages of democratic collection.
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