Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Everybody is the j n V. Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got some special legends in the man. Come on, now, this is special one right here, legends of the building. Come on, it's the cast of Good Times. Fifty years of good Times.
We got Michael, Thelma and JJ well Carter and Bernadette Stainers and Jimmy Walker.
That's right, all right, Good morning, guys. How y'all feeling good morning?
Breakfast Club?
How y'all feeling man? Fifty years a good Times?
Wow?
I know wow, and we're still going strong.
Did y'all know Good Times was going to make the market? It made well?
I didn't, No, I had no idea.
No, we didn't, but we're very grateful it did. Yeah, thank you to the listeners were.
Hands well from the beginning. Let's start, how did it come about? How did Good.
Times come about? And how did you guys audition?
And how did it make because during that time there wasn't too many of us on television, So how did it come about?
Well?
And he is black, you know, they joking me all the time, and I'm black.
But well, it started with me being in a beauty pageant, you know, and from there, Uh, there was a manager watching me in the beauty pageant and gave my mother a card to say, they're looking for a teenager to be in the show and meet Norman Lear at CBS, you know. So we went up there. But there were thousands of girls when I opened the door. So, I mean, but that's how it started with me.
You were a teenager, all good?
Huh yeah, oh you eighteen?
Oh okay, have mercy, okay, yeah, all right, okay, he's still beautiful, absolutely so.
And then you know, after a couple of months, I thought I didn't get it, you know, because I didn't hear back from them. And then I did get the call. My mom got the call that I was Thelma, and so they flew me out to California. That's how it happened for me.
Wow, what about you, Miss Carton.
By the time I began to work with Norman Lear, I had been in my sixth Broadway play. By that time, I met during my journey with Miss Jane Murray and also Pat Kirkland. These were two wonderful women who I auditioned for when I went there. However, I literally had the job before I got the job. My contract was brought from The Raisin in the Sun by Lorraine Hansbury. We did the version of the musical play. By that time I had won the Tony Award nomination that year
in seventy four. However, as a result of that, Norman would consistently he came more than twice to see my work and flew my mother and I out to the state of California. I you know, I was reluctant because they always said it never rains in California, and I was excited. It main for three months when I got and there are any illusions about Hollywood were always neutralized as far as our concern. So I'm very grateful to have not only worked with and still love Jimmy Walker
and Bernadette. But we give respect to the spirit of Miss Esther Rolene du Bois, and to Johnny Brown who played Bookman, to Helen Martin who played Weeping Wonder. These are wonderful people that helped us along the way. Of course, to mister Ben Powers as well Albert Reed who played the Alderman. These are the people who accentuated what we did. Of course, we're working with the wonderful Debbie Allen and the work that she contributed to our production, so we thank you.
What about you, mister Walker, Well, I'm just a hard core stand up. That's it. That's all I do. I'm just a stand up to the core. So I was working in prov me, David Brynner, Bett Mittler, Pat Benatar, all of us together. We had a comedy team named Edmund and Curly. They work all the time in those days, and they couldn't do the job. They were doing like three shows a day. They said, hey, man, we were supposed to do these warm ups for this show called
Luci's Department. We can't make it. Do you want to do take our place and do the warm up thing? And I said, I don't even know what the warm up is. Never heard of it, you know that kind of stuff like that. And they said, they said, look, they go over there. It's like on fifty seventh and eleventh or twelfth. You go over there and you do like a half hour you tell people's shows about. And I said, I don't want to do it. They say, well, it's eight hundred dollars. I said, well, who do I
have to kill. I'm in, I said, I'm in. So I went over there. I did the warm up and luckily there was a few laughs in there. So everybody comes up after the show and they go, man, you are funny. You need to be on this show, you need to do this thing. I said, Well, in those days, and I still believe this is this day. Everybody in this business there's no truth at all. Everybody is something until you ask for something. They go, well, I was in charge of that, but now I'm not in charge
of that. My friend is in charge. Everybody's a liar. So until my line, and I always say this, everybody is full of Dodo until proven a complete a hole. That's just everybody lies. That's just me. Freddie Prinz, David Brennan, Robert Climbed, Richard Lewis, all the guys we said, liars. So Pat Kirklin comes up and says, hey, we're doing this show in Los Angeles. We want to be on the show. I go, she's a liar, so you just go. I said. So you always say when people ask you
to do something, oh yeah, I'm in. See you there anyway, So you'll never hear from them again. And everybody women are liars. Everybody's a liar, so that's it. So I said, yeah, I'll be in it. So the next week, I'm not even paying any attention. I go do the warm ups. Luckily I killed. So Norman Lear is there at that time. He says, hey, man, you are funny because I just did the Rodan Martin show. They had called and do the Ronald Martin thing. So he says, do you want
to be on this show? I said yeah. He says, we're going to send you a contract. So I knew he's a liar. So I said, look, don't even send the contract in my house. Send it to the improv. So I'm not paying any attention. I'm going out. I'm doing my dates. I won this thing called a Napti thing, and a Napti thing is where you go do college tours and you compete against other people to do it. So they bring in a whole bunch of acts. So I was on the show. Edmund Curley again said you
need to do the Nafti thing. I did the nafty thing. They said, you're going to do the region of the Midwest. You're going to do South Dakota and North Dakota, Iowa that kind of stuff like that, and if you win it, you could get a whole thing. So I came in second because you get a whole bunch of colleges. I came in second. The winner was BB King. He won one hundred and fifty dates. I won ninety dates.
B B.
King was the winner. So we're out doing dates and you know, I'm just bouncing around. So I get a call from J D. Jorman's Fargo, North Dakota doing dates and evand Cody said, these people have never seen a black person in their lives. You'll kill on this thing. So luckily I was killing on the thing and j Jo says, well where are you. I said, I'm in Fargo, North Dakota. She says, you belong in Los Angeles. I said, I know, I'd belong in Los Angeles, but I had
no reason to be there. So they said, no, we sent you a ticket to the improv. So I wasn't in New York at the time, so I never got the ticket if I was on the road doing my thing. So she says, look, get on the plane. We have a ticket waiting for you in Fargo. I thought she's a liar. So what I said, have optimistic, Yes, positive people have live They lie, women lie, they lie. It's just a constant thing. It's just.
So.
Then I go to Los Angeles. My man, Steve Lansburg is on the show. You guys don't even remember this guy. It's the Barbie Darren Show. He was a day player on the Barbie Darren Show. So I said, hey, Lansburg, Chalkman. Used to call him Chalkman because he had all this white stuff that he used to do in the chalk Man. We got to do some shows while we're out here. So I went to the I went to the comedy store. I'm doing shows. I go back to bed at like three o'clock in the morning, get a call JD Joe.
She says, where are you? I said, we're my bed sleeping. She says, well, you belong across the street. We're doing rehearsals. I said, rehearsal for what. She says, there's a show called good Times. You signed on to the show? I had signed on to it at the improv. Yeah, because I didn't believe him, because he's a liar. So horrible contract. No, they had a contract. Kenny the Drunk who was a lawyer, was at the bar. I said, Kenny, is this any good? He said, yeah, I think so sign it. I'll send
it back for you. And I thought, I said, Kenny is a drunk. He's not going to send He's a live, he's not going to send it. So then he sent it back. So I was on the show and I had no idea the contract. Yeah, he's my man, here's a live the whole time. So Kenny signed me up for it. So I was in. So I go to the rehearsal and there's a whole bunch of people there at the rehearsal because I didn't even know we had
a script because they said this the script downstairs. I said, I'm going back to bed because I'm not going downstairs to get a script because they're lying. I don't have time. So I went. I got the script and I looked at it and I'm sitting next to Normally. I didn't know who normally it was, because we're always working at that time. You know, if you're if you're a night Love comic, you know, I'm following Robert Klein and following Steve Martin. I'm worried about holding my spot at the
endprov that's tough enough, you know, as a battle. You know, Robert Klein's there, Bets singing songs. We got Pat Benatar singing, and so I said, I better have my little act together to hang in there because it's a fight for the spots to get on. So I go and I'm reading the script and I'm sitting next to Norman.
I said, huh okay.
And I'm reading the script and I said, a guy next to me like you normally. I said, man, this sucks. What is this? I said. He said, we're going to do a TV show. I said, really, I said, you're a liar. It's not going to happen. It's terrible. So now we finished the rehearsal and Norman Leary and Ala Man Bruce comes up and he says, hey, you know, you know you have some problems with the script. You can't be blasting out loud about how people stink. You
have to like bring it down a little bit. So as a comic, people tell you how bad you stink all the time. People always go, you suck, You're a piece of garbage, you're no good at all, and you finish and there's always that couple of people that go, we love you here, but then when you go out, you know, we had Andy Kauflan and Andy Kafflan was one of those guys you stink, So that kind of
thing you just have to keep going. And so from then on we did the show, and I was always throwing stuff in and people got upset.
So when did you stop thinking people was liar?
Never? I think it now. People, I mean agents are liars. They're all liars. No, very few people. People want to be bigger than what they are. And the big people you never meet them. They're in a big glass tower upstairs on the ninetieth floor. So you know, even if like berniand Ella to you, even if meet the girl said give me your number, I know she's lying because she's not going to give you the number. And then with the horrible things with the cell phones, they don't answer.
You text them, you email them. They just they sit in their room and they sit with their girlfriends and they start laughing. They go this moron I met at Walmart. He asked for my number. I was busy. I gave him my number because I know I'm never going to talk to my answers emails. Ever again, once in a while somebody will come through, but.
Very very rarely, and the girl, the girl would be nice, and some girls will go some girls will go uh.
And I learned this from a friend of mine who happens to be a girl. And she said a very interesting thing. She said, you know, if you want to get rid of a guy and he asked you to go out, say, you know, like if she's a girl, I asked you to go out. I say, what is your name feeling? Jess? I say, hey, Jess, you know, why don't we, you know, go to uh, go to their four seesons and have dinner, just start laughing ahead, that's what they do. Are you serious? Really? No, it
wasn't lucky yet. But it was a girl that showed promise, she answered, she answered, And I was like, really, sometimes sometimes you're so stunnd one did call back. I was, I was stunned.
How many times do you give your number out to these women?
I'm available anybody, but see they they and I've said the girls, hey, let's go in the cruise together, and they just go, They just go.
Their adults they.
Just start laughing.
You know.
I hear my toasts popping up. I have to go, so there's no there's no honest woman. And then the phrase I always hate to hear. You know I'm a single mom, and you just go, okay, okay, I got it. You know I can't be worried about that or you know what happened. I never connection, but anyway, go ahead, talk about the ship.
That's that's how I got got good time.
That's what I just said.
Iver got it.
But I've never I've never I've never i never auditioned for any show ever. I've never auditioned for a show him. I've never auditioned, I never tried out. I never tolerate him because.
This just like I'm doing, just like people just see my afternoon.
Let's hire this guy.
And we know how to do that.
We'll let them go.
How much of y'all real lives did you implement in these characters? You know, especially you know you missed the Carter because Michael was like one of the most pro black figures that early on we ever saw them.
Well originally from Brooklyn, Brenda Dead and I both from Brownsville, giving our shout out to Brownsville Grafton Street.
You do Martain Blake.
That's where I used to live when I was growing up in the heart of Brooklyn. However, my point is that by virtue of the fact that I grew up in an African American church, one of the most memorable productions we ever did on good Times when we had the Black Jesus. However, what happened in my case is that I physically grew up with, like the wonderful images in this fantastic sound room, that I grew up with people who look like that on the walls of my church.
So it was almost a form of symbiosis when the good times parallel came up with how I was able to see that. But due to the fact that we were able to locate in the verses of the Bible, the example that is used hair of wool, skin of bronze, and like me in Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia. You know, I was a kid, but I got some unkind male But I was abdull from all of that by just taking myself to another level and not deal with the riff rap.
I love the episode of when You Broke Down That boy Boy Mama. Boy is a white racist word.
And it still is what I love about what we've done together as a team is that I'd rather be relevant than a relic. And because of the fact that people who are genuinely very kind to us, I know from my personal experience, we're bombarded with positive energy. So I believe that the human beings very difficult to be negative when you're always being given good energy from the
people that we meet. And I'm personally indebted to the people who viewed our work, the people who continue to like our work, And all I can say is, thank you. We respect that.
How much of dumb would you miss, Bernadette Oh with me?
A lot of my character was, you know, the way I was. I grew up in a family you know, five well they're five children, you know, I'm the oldest, and a mom and dad, and so you know, my father would always say, even though it was in the projects, he always say, what's around you does not have to be in you. And that's kind of how we were. So I knew my character and that young girls in the projects do grow up to be become someone, you know, I strive to be the good girl, you know, and
you know, the positive person so very much. So the character is very much like who I was then.
But Bernadette consistently he has always had high standard and she has never belivers herself in that context.
What about you, mister Walker, how much of you with JJ?
Well, goat. I remember, I'm a comic. So we just we just sit around and all we do is jokes. That's it. It's just jokes every day, every hour, every battle, every whatever. That's all we do. And at that time, Johnny Carson was it. So our main goal in life was to get on the Johnny Carson Show. Because if you get on the Johnny Carson Show the next day, you can draw, and that's the key thing. You must be able to draw, put tushies in the seats. I don't care how great you think you are, you what
you are. It's like now with Netflix, your goal in life, nothing else counts. Mom, dad, family, Get on Netflix and take your shot. So in terms of my thing of being on the show, I wanted to get on Johnny Carson, I didn't want to do anything else. So you just wrote jokes all day.
How did you feel when you know?
Eesterole and John Amos they said they used to criticize your characters, saying it was a poor role model for black teenagers back then.
Well at that time, I was not really aware of it. You got to remember, we didn't have media like we had now and with our cast. For me, I didn't really it's going to sound strange. I never watched the show. I never really John is a great actor. He I mean, he's probably one of the best black actors in America. I'm best actor in general. I didn't really talk to John, so I didn't really know him. And Esther, I don't think in my humble I don't think i've ever Bernadette
was very close with Esta, very very very close. I don't think I ever said a word to Esther because being in a comedy lineup of like thirty guys you don't and girls too, you don't. Really there's people you just you know, you never talk to. I mean, you know, there's people you talk to all the time, and then I maybe you may talk to ten guys all the time, and there's another ten guys you never talk to at all. You don't know them, you see them, and you just
so I'm used to not mingling with some guys. That's it, that's the reality of it all.
I was gonna ask after Good Times, was it difficult to get other parts in movies and sitcoms and things like that, because people look at you as characters of Good Times, Like when I see you, I still see Michael, like I still see No, I still see JJ And I was a kid like when I was coming up, there was only I think at the time, it was.
Your show and what's his name?
Jefferson?
Nope, before the Sun and that was the only two. Yeah, I would see blacks on television. So was it difficult after that.
No. As a matter of fact, my transition, once I finished Good Times, I still had to complete high school. So after I did my works in high school.
I went back to high school.
I completed. I graduated on June sixth, nineteen seventy nine, which was a Friday, along with my colleague Lawrence Fishburn. We were in the ninth grade together and we went all through that part of our education together as brothers. My point being that once I completed the work in Good Times, I was also invited to the wonderful nation of Nigeria, and at that time I couldn't wait to get to West Africa. The point being that I grew up in an apple centric consciousness and due to men
like Jimmy Walker. He's one of the most well read men I've ever met, so he became a blueprint for me as far as wanting to know information, I figured, if I love and respect the history of not just Africa, but the global experience, because you know, everybody here is a human We belong here. You know, if you ain't come on earth to do your thing, then what you come here for, If you ain't come here to be the best you can while you're here, and what you
come here for. So my point is that I wanted to make it and I did make it my business to read as many books that related to my particular subject matter. I originally went to Los Angeles Community College in my early years and majored in poetry there. Then from there I moved to meet up with a man named doctor John Henry Clark, who became my primary mentor.
Through him, I met of the phenomenal historians like Joseph Vijaik and doctor Ivan and Curdemer, the brilliance of Amos Wilson, who wrote just consistential books that helped to heal our people, because in this culture, we've all been wounded and we're still in the process of repairing ourselves. But we must understand this time around, ain't nobody coming to our rescue. Therefore you must rescue yourself.
So you bought all the energy to Michael because the ain't no white people can write that character.
I'm very grateful two men like Eric Monty and Michael Evans due to the fact that Eric is from in Chicago from Cabrini Green. One of the highlights of working on the show was that consecutively for three years, due to the genius of esther role, she asked us to join and participate in the Bud Billiken Day Parade, which very popular in Chicago. But also there were people who lived in Cabrini Green who knew that Burneddett, myself, Jennet
de Wis Esther of course, were coming in advance. And these are times when John blessed my father's heart because he is one of the people on good times that I worked long before. I haven't worked in that production. But my point is that some of the residents in those wonderful complexes, they physically invited us to have dinner with us. I'm talking delicious food. But the Calmoradity was there, so I think it helped us to be authentic because during the time I worked on Good Times, I never
saw the show. I was forbidden to watch the show. John Namis and Esther Rolle told my mother Lucille, who fortunately lived to be ninety seven and she would be one hundred and one this year. But my point is that my mother kept me grounded and listened to what esther Role and John Ames told her to do. Don't let him watch the show due to the fact that sometimes children tend to imitate their selves, so they wanted me to stay as authentic and it was organic as possible.
So I didn't really understand the bombardment of people at that time, you know, coming after me for years. I stopped wearing jewelry because people thought they had the pivot of the right to snatch it off of me. I was like, yoh, man, you know, you know, this is a ninety dollars shirt in nineteen seventies and you just made my shirt my shirt.
You know.
So with that said, it also is a very humbling experience because ultimately, anyway you look at it, you just got to treat people the way you want to be treated and that is my personal philosophy.
Well, what was stardom like back then, Miss Bernie Dead like in that era?
Well, back then, it wasn't that many black stars there. So was this like a handful of us and you know Red Fox, Richard pryor those kind of people, you know, and they would have parties or whatever, and you know, they would invite just a handful who was there. But other than that, it wasn't a lot of us there. Yeah, so it was kind of empty in a way.
How was it when you did the covered Jet magazine? Oh?
I Sutton took a picture. He was a friend of mine and he's invited me over to eat. He would cook like eight course meals for me.
I mean, just me. I'm like, come on, you know. So then we take the pictures.
And so you know, it was just Jane Kennedy then and me and people like that. So he just said he wanted to do a cover for me, and he did it and I was.
On the cover.
Wow, that's different though. You're on the cover of Jet magazine back then.
Yeah, and also one inside the Week the centerfold and I did that one too.
And you knew you were popular when you're black and you on the cover of Ebney and Jet. Yeah, I said, oh lord, I know we on a lot of other magazines, but when you were received by your own people, it has a different type of connection. And I say that because of the fact that who would have thought that he was going to be on the covers of those and I regardless of maybe the topics that they were talking about, we still were well received by the people.
And there is no show without the people to participate with us, so we thank them.
What was the most difficult episode to shoot for me?
It was actually the contradiction of a character came to the show in the script where there was a Caucasian young woman who I was supposed to have an on screen kiss with right then, and then my antennae went up because it would destroy everything I had built with that particular character as far as as pro pan Africanism is.
Love you for that, I remember that.
Yeah, So what I did do I took my grievances to the adults. Keep in mind, Johnny Jackson and I are still minors, so therefore any type of script issues that we had. Jimmy was always in has been my advocate along with Bernadette, and I brought my issue to them and Esther said, this cannot happen. You can't do this for this particular character, because it will. You know, mostly all the the young young African American women said, Wow,
here we go again. So I decided to just pull back and it worked out in my favor and that didn't happen.
Wow, is that the episode that ended up being when you were supposed to move in?
Yes?
Okay, that's right.
But they they we had to change that script because they had an intimate moment which again would a contradicted the policies and the integrity of the character that I played.
Absolutely, I always wondered because I was when I found out that, you know, people they didn't like the JJ character. I was like, I never looked at y'all as ignorant, Like I didn't think that was reinforcing any stereotypes. How were y'all able to portray being from the hood but not come off as ignorant?
Well, a lot of people in the hood are not all.
And I looked at Jimmy's character as you know, like very very intelligent, you know, an artist and everything like that. And you know, sometimes in a family. There's always one kid that makes the family laugh. I mean I have I had a brother who's who's a pastor now Kyle, and he used to make my mom laugh. You know, you do silly things. But I mean that's just something that lifts a spirit. That's that's all it is. And that's how I saw Jimmy. I didn't see him as
a character that no one liked it. And I in esther Roll's defense, I would say that she just didn't want them to make him a thief or a fool like and but she loved the character too, but she didn't want the writers or anybody to make him look like that, like with the little hat or whatever. And you know, in the beginning, they always had Jimmy find in something, you understand, so so finding is stealing and she cut that out.
I don't want that finding. And I just found this pan, I just found this shirt, you know. So she said, no, she didn't want that.
So those are the things that they harped on, you know, like she didn't like the character, but she she of course they did.
I just wonder when did Hollywood take a turn?
Because it feel like you know that then y'all always had a hand in the creative y'all always had a hand in how y'all were portrayed. So when did Hollywood take the turn the way It's just like all of these negative stereotypes of black people just started, well.
I think because a different breed of producers came through that were in contact and in touch with the people. And when you disconnect yourself from the people, then you become in a box. And one thing I work with myself is that the only opinion about me that matters is my own. And therefore, by not allowing myself to be in a box, I was able to take my
work to another level. And being a historian, in the context of the work that I did, I not only wanted to study the history of Africa, but I wanted to understand how valuable the contributions of people globally has been. You know, my ancestors have been here since seventeen ninety nine, and my great great great ancestor, she was kidnapped from Cameroon sold on the Charleston auction block on December seventeenth,
seventeen ninety nine. And as a consequence of that, I wanted to study as much as I could because you used to be against the law for people of color to read in this country. So I made it my business to read as much as I can. Just for the record, brother man, I've read both your books, and you are an excellent writer. I got a lot of information on your journey, you know, and to the way you gave the salutations to your mother Julia and to your father Larry. It was a wonderful experience.
Thank you.
I want to tell you that to your face.
Thank you, brother. I got any one coming out, I'm give it to you for you week.
Yeah, okay, my birthday coming up. Where my gift I got you? I brought you as in bonds and Nobles, I appreciate.
Now you mentioned Janet, So I was working with Jannon on the set. How was that for me?
It was refreshing because for stranger, Yeah, for many years, I was the only child on set. Therefore, that type of isolation, it didn't affect me because every time we went on hiatus, I always came back to New York and too Brooklyn, and I was with my peer group, so I fundamentally didn't have an offbeat energy as whatever a child star means. And also I was never financially exploited by my family. That was not my experience. In my experience, no one ever put an offending hand on me.
You know, I'm from Brooklyn. I jack you up. What I did learn in that process of working with Janet, who was beyond a consummate professional, but she's a brilliant observer and she watched because we spent the most time together, y'all. And in California state law, we have to go to school for three hours before we can appear on set, So our actual working day after the three hours of school would be a five hour working day. So we had tutorists who protected us. My mother and missus Lucille
Carter and missus Captain Jackson. They got along like peas in the park. And because of the fact that our parents got along, and this would apply to Hey with Nelson and Lawrence Fishburn myself, our mothers got along. Therefore we got along too. So in that context my job was too. Because I'm Bernardet's bully. Anybody stepped to her incorrectly, there's going to be an issue. And I was able
to because of that loneliness. Jannet was like a beacon of light when she came on the set, and I still so proud of what she has done in the work that she continues to do.
I want to go back and ask Miss Berniett about the mister the direction of Hollywood and how I went another direction.
Oh yes, thank you. I just want to say that Esther Roll was an advocate for all of us. And I remember there was a week that we had and I actually had really nothing much to say. It was like, you know, hi, Mom, Hi Dad, I was in the bathroom, shut up JJ, and that's about it.
You know, the character had nothing.
So I was very bored that week and I said, this cannot go.
I can't sit here every week and just be this bored. So I did. I asked Mom. I used to call mom, say Mom, you know I was so bored this week.
She said, what do you mean? I said, I just did nothing. I just sat there and I was bored. So she says, well, what do you want to do? I said, I need more to say. I need I need a I need something character. So she she said, let me handle it, and we had a reading at the round table, and that that week I had my two or three little lines. Okay, and so Estra said, at the end of the reading, she asked the producers and the writer. She says, I want to ask a question,
and they said sure, asked what is it? You know, what is it? She said, I want to ask you ashamed of my daughter? And they said no, and she said. Then she went on to say, you know, well, I think that we should do a little better with her. I think that we have my son JJ who has a lot to say, and my son Michael, who has a lot to say, and I want my daughter to have a voice. And she said to me, and they said, oh, certainly. And so that afternoon she said, you go up there
and you tell them who Thelma is. Now, how can you develop a character? I mean, you know what I'm saying, you're telling the character to develop a character. So I knew who she was. So I ended up going up there and telling them what I'd like her to be, who I need.
Her to be.
And after that the scripts came, you know, the dialogue came, you know, a voice became. And I give her all the credit for doing that. People don't really fight for people anymore like that. So she she did, and that's how you know, she gave Thelma a voice.
Wow.
Absolutely, and where did white people like Norman Lear in Hollywood passed away?
This are those type of people no more. When they did kick they were really good, you know, because for me, in the context of history, you would not really have had a good times if you didn't have an Amos and Andy. And Amos and Andy was also a product television station CBS. However, when I did my research and with the catalog of that particular show, it was hilarious the men and women who performed on Amos and Andy. We're speaking of veteran actors who had done vaudeville and
the so called chitting circuit. As Jimmy Walker really knows all about that. You know, he's been on the chitten circuit so long he was cleaning the chitting. So my point is that we were able to embrace through the genius of Normally, because keep in mind, Normally was a magnet in the respect that he had all in the family, more Jeffersons, Good Times, the ac Junket. Along with Bud Yorken, they also had What's Happening, in which you had the
works of Hayvid Nelson, Fred Barry. Of course, mis Shirley Hempfield and their wonderful cast Danielle Spencer. Mabel King of course played the mother. But my point is that there was a connection in a bond that we even on set had we crossed reference with the wonderful people on All in the Family with Jeans Staple, tend and Carola Khana, and we weekly saw Beatrice Author and Bill Macy while they were doing their works on more so because of the work that Esther did that allowed us as artists
to get a gig. But Esther to me is the foundation of good times, along with John Names absolutely.
Mister Jimmy, did you ever ever get tired of saying down at any point?
I don't think we ever did it that much. No, because you know, again being a stand up people came to cheap stand up, you know, and and at the improv of the store or anything like that, and again not I guess we were in such competition. And plus we had Paul Mooney, and Paul Mooney straightened everybody out. Wont E would just say, man, your stuff is weak. What are you doing? You stink? And he I remember, like we'd have somebody like a Gary Shanling who worked
so hard. I was like, that's what made me get writers to help me out, because he would have two notebooks full of jokes every day and you just go, hey, how's this guy doing this. So in terms of the dynamite thing, it didn't play in a club. You know, we had Freddie Prinz who always said, I am the funniest, I am the best. You guys stink I'm great, I'm the youngest and I'm the baddest. I'm eighteen. You guys will never be as good as me. You'll never be
as funny as me. Don't even try it. And then you had Gary Shanling who said quietly, I'm the best writer out of everybody, I will eventually have my own show. None of you will be as big as me. That's the way it is. Because he had a shot to do the Johnny Carson Show and he said, I don't want to be encumbered by network. I'm going to have my own show where I'm in charge, in which he did with The Ry Sanders Show, and it's the Gary
Shandley Show. He was completely in charged, says, I will never do a network show that I have to listen to other people. So for me, the dynamite thing was like not relevant to the people that were come into the show. I mean, you know. And plus I was the MC for UH for our ethnic shows, so we would do the Chicago Show. Chicago Show would be the Emotions, the shylights, Jerry Butler, so they weren't even for that because they were kind of like, Hey, I'm Jerry Butler,
I'm the iceman. I don't care about any dynamite stuff. And then you do the you do the Philadelphia show where you have Teddy Prenagrass, who would say, I am the prettiest, the baddest, the most good looking chicks will look at me and I'm great, so mean, And then you'd have the Motown Show, which I was MC of, and the Temptations would go, there's no group that can dance better than us, that can say, ain't better than us. We are we don't care about any dynamite stuff. So
it was never that kind of thing. I was always very secondary because I was the youngest guy. We had STEVIEE. Wonder's mom who used to drive him behind us in her little station wagon, so we never Jimmy Walker was never a big thing. He was just a little part of the MC work. That was it, That was that was That was John Rich. I did it one day in rehearsals and John Rich says, I like that dynamite thing. I said, what dynamite thing? So he just did it.
I said, oh, that was just fooling around. He says. John Risch said to me, he says, this is going to be the biggest thing on this show. This will be the big I said, what he said, the dynamite thing, I said, he said, And he got up a little fat guy and showed me how to do it. And I said, John, people are not that stupid. They'll never go for this. He says, yes, they will, And he put it out there and Norman hated it. Wow, just hated it. And and everybody was threatening to walk. John says,
if he doesn't do it, I'm walking. Normal Lea says, if he does it, I'm walking. So he was whatever. So he did it, and it became like Michael Buffer's thing when he says, looks get ready to rumble. If you ever watched, you guys are too young. But when so, whenever he would do a fight, it would be like a sugar Ray Leonard. He's won ninety seven knockouts, He's
killed his last ten opponents. He's the champion of the middle Way, He's the champion of the and you he'd get ready to say ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls across the world, and you could hear the people.
Go, let's generate.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, yes, oh yes. It's only ten thousand dollars a pop. If he does it nothing serious. That's all he gets is he gets ten thousand dollars a pop. He does it all. So that's the way the dynamite thing rolled. But we nobody was that enthused. I mean I had guys like Steve Martin who was selling out fifteen thousand people, and you just go, just go, boy, I would like to be like that.
Do you have any problem with women calling you back back then?
Yes, definitely, without a doubt. Oh no. You got to remember I was with Richard Pryor and Richard Pryor who was a guy, and Freddie Prince. Those two guys had all the women. I can tell you stories about Richard that you don't want to hear on the air that you would go, are you hitting me? Because women would No. I will not tell you. I will not tell you two gianic stories that about Richard and Freddie. Freddie's the
kind of guy had so much confidence. If he saw her and we walked outside, he says, I can get her. I go, Freddy, She's like, you know, she's a woman, she's going for the woman thing, to have her own thing, and says, I will get her and you will go. At the end of the night they're walking out together. You go, damn, how did Freddie pull this off? He's that kind of guy and he just believed I'm the prettiest, I'm the baddest, I'm the funniest, and I will get
any chick I want. Go ahead, y'all ling, Yeah, that's not your job. And it was just amazing. But yeah, so that was that.
Do y'all remember the first day on the set versus the last day?
Yes, I do. I remember the first day. It was interesting, you know. I was really watching Esther and John how they handled a lot of stuff, you know, and I learned a lot. I really really did.
But I remember when like the first year, well the first maybe a couple of months, talking about women and JJ.
Okay, I remember he said something to me like, what do you do what do you get? What do you do with these women?
Why do you?
I mean, what did I do? I said, you know, the first thing you should do is when you have a girl, you need to buy her a little jewelry.
Telling I'm telling on you.
And he said what I said, yeah, buy some you know, jewelry and stuff and break it in that way.
And so he said, okay. So that lunchtime he went to Farmer's market and he bought some jewelry and he came back he said, how how does this look?
What's this about? And it was it was a turquoise piece, you know, with the silver around.
It was this big. I said, what are you doing?
I said, well, you're dating a giant.
What do you doing? Come on?
So I said, no, go back over there, take that back and get some fine jewelry, you know, really go a little gain something. Yeah, And so that's what he did. And so to this very day, if you date Jimmy Walker, you're gonna get some jewelry.
I'm telling you.
Here. Man.
The last day, Wow, for me, well, it it was like a little unreal, you know, because I came to Hollywood right into a show, so I didn't know what it was like living outside of that. I mean here in California, you know, in California. So for me it was very different.
It was like is this the end?
Is this really the end?
You know?
What am I going to do when I get up tomorrow? You know kind of thing. So that's how it felt to me.
The ending what a good.
Times ended on March the eighth, which was a Thursday in nineteen seventy nine. We had already braced ourselves for it because you could feel the momentum of the production was starting to lose his pace. So I already knew I had to graduate from high school, and I already knew I had my ideas to go to college and to travel. So thereby I used the rest of my twenties traveling to East and West Africa, primarily to Sudan, Ethiopia,
and Egypt. And by doing that consecutively. As a historian, I read the information before I went on the journey. So my affinity with the wonderful monuments that I saw, the parallels in Egypt with the parallel, the parallel of the pyramids in Egypt and in Mexico are phenomenal because there was a wonderful connection between those two cultures where they did not destroy each other, but they complimented each other. And you could see that the earth winding fires has
a wonderful song. It's in the stone. So in the stone the people left how they looked, and that we were here and this is what we did while we were on the planet. So it was a phenomenon for me to not only just theoretically do the work, but to physically go and see the monuments for myself.
Wonder it felt like.
They could have showed y'all outside of the projects, because the last episode, y'all, everybody did get out the project to.
Go move in the same building, a better buildings. They could have showed that.
But you know, what's done is done. The past is the past, Charla Man. So you don't want to regress, you want to progress. And people have constantly asked us to do a reboot of Good Times. However, you've lost some of their major primary characters, so you know it
wouldn't work to do that anymore. So you come up with new ideas, like my new television series is entitled Grandma's Hands and I deal with five generations of African women from the age of thirteen to the age of ninety eight, along with my wonderful co writer mister Gregory A. Holtz, beautiful SES's named Janine, and my young sister VICKI. So as a team, a quorum of four, we've been able
to write some wonderful scripts and all things. In time, I could show you better than I can tell you, and I just hope that people will the opportunity comes where I can present this particular production so that people can experience us from another perspective as I do as a writer. I've completed my autobiography in five volumes. Years ago, I had a dialogue with all his Wilson and he was one of the very rare, rare writers who had a play written for every decade of the last century
that we've gone through. But my point being, I asked him his technique and what should I do when I want to write my autobiography? And I got a lot of advice from my good friend mister Irvin Panton. He said, do it and I'll help you copy the books. So I began on a wonderful journey of getting wonderful information, and I didn't know that there was so much information on the work that I did in my early theater years. My point is that I had a resource with Schomberg.
I had a resource with Lincoln Center and the people who were there in that area, the librarians, so to speak. They were very gracious to me. So it helped me to complete five complete volumes of my autobiography. I taught out a child development for five years. I'm the author of twenty children's books as well. So as a musician, I still sing, I do my voice. I hope that people will continue to like the work that not just
myself does, but Bernadette and Jimmy too. We we literally have never stopped being friends.
That's why we're still here. That's amazing.
How do how do y'all feel about the The Good Times cartoon on Netflix?
Well, that's Bernadette's thing. She'll tell you.
How do you feel?
It?
A reboove?
But that's not a no, that's not that's not it at all.
No, that's not it at all. I think that.
Our audience missed something, you know, they missed what happened to us. It's always they want the completion of it and it never really happened, you know.
So far.
My thing about the the animation was this that you know, I know that Jimmy Walker came to them and he presented a cartoon about five years before this, before this one, and it was it was the really the the all of us, the way we are in a in animation and we have our same voices and everything like that.
And they they didn't bite that.
But later on came up with they're gonna do an animation and I remember my manager called them and said, well, what are they gonna you know, are we gonna be in it or not. So the way they describe the animation to us was this, it was going to be a modern day, you know, progression of what everything is going to be for the good Times family. So you know, fine, But they asked Jimmy and I to do a tiny little part. But it sounded okay, you know, we didn't see the scripts. So Jimmy did a part. I did
a little part. My character's name is Peaches. You know, she's like a project lady. That's whatever. But when the when the when it came out, when the trailer came out, we saw it and everybody was like, no, you know, you don't have a crack baby in somebody in the mother's arms.
You don't do that.
So and I I remember having an interview with the singer Gilstrap, Jim Gilstrap a year before, and he was saying, you know, there are some lyrics that they took out. So I said, were the lyrics and he said, well, you know they say roaches roaming the hallway, roaches roaming the hallway and the landlord lives on the other side of town or something like that. He said that they took it out because fifty years ago now they thought
that that would be offensive to black people. Okay, but fifty years later you have two roaches singing in a shower. They sing in the song good Times. So I'm like, this is not it, you know, I'm sorry. You know, I know people have you know, want to write it at they want to do this and that, but you have to do it right, you know, you have to represent it correctly.
So to me, it was not represented correctly, and I had to say that, you know.
I haven't watched it, mister card.
I actually was quite disappointed with the actors who took the time to sign on to that project. These are actors and the artists and comedian that I really had a high regard for I won't use the past tense with them right now, but I'm disappointed at the fact that they did that. When I did take a quick review of this particular rubbish that I saw, I was contacted by some media outlets from my point of view,
but I refused to dignify it with a response. And I'm just pretty much disappointed with the artists who signed.
On to it.
I don't think anybody ever saw it. I mean, I know Seth mcfollowen to me, is very, very funny, but this is not his bag. It would be like saying, hey, we're doing Romeo and Juliet. You know we hired JJ Walker and Lawanda Page.
Really wow, that's a good analysis.
I mean, it's just Seth is. I mean, I love all his stuff. It's racist, it's terrible, it's fantastic. It kills me. But he's yeah, it's funny, but he's not right for this. And Steph Curry, I know he's went watching Lebron James and he sees Lebron James has his projects. Look, let me tell you something. I'm from New York. I played basketball against Nate Archibald. You guys are too young.
You remember Nate Archibald, but he's a big star. I mean, I played against Nate Archibal and he only scores sixty three on us three times that we played them. He called sixty one, sixty three and sixty three. Look, let me tell you something. It'd be like me going to Steph and say, look, I played against Nate Archibald. I want to be on the Golden State Warriors. And you go, why I play against Nate Archibal. I belong on the team. Come on, but no, he's just the wrong guy to be in this.
Y'all don't like the good times to say that fifty years a good times.
I'm talking like nobody did a documentary or some type of you know, reunion show, Like y'all didn't get approached about.
None of that.
Now, the anthology that I did, right it wouldn't be a product commercially right now, again because of the losses that we had.
They we didn't have people that we worked that we're going to put together, and we had all the characters.
It's just this is the now ancestors.
So this is Brett Miller, who works with Norman and that's the guy who kind of kind of gabashed us, and that that was it. I mean, that's the way because when I took it around, everybody I talked to says, well do you own the rights? And we go no, and they said, well, nothing we could do for you. And these are all friends of mine. So that's the way it was. I just think that, you know, they they didn't want us involved, and they achieved their goal.
We love y'all, y'all.
Yes, our fans really kept writing us and telling us how much that they loved us, and we did. They did not like the animation, you know, they respect us in so many different ways. So we still got our satisfaction out.
Of it, you know, absolutely.
And when the people don't like it, watch out.
Because they're writing and what they think people want to see you, Well, it's a disconnect.
It's a disconnect because that's not what the people really want to see.
But yeah, but you have like those pockets of people, like like people trying to appeal to what media is like feeding, you know what I mean, and all that ghetto rad shirt roach singing, and it's like how.
They they see it.
Yeah, but all of that, all of that rubbish tends to dumb people down. You know, and that's what how people will for it, you know, Like, you don't try to make me spotted a long time to be just dumb. Yeah, so don't try to make me want to think. And that's the the in my critical analysis. People must think for theirselves and solve their own problems. I guess when you do that, you can help other people.
Yeah, I guess they felt that. You know, fifty years later, no one would notice. We can make them look like the way we want them to look.
I don't know.
I've never craved for attention like that. I like, I live an isolated life to the degree that I live alone, but I'm not lonely, you know. I have a loving family that I speak to practically every week, and by virtue of that, my sense of grounding is a lot different than some people.
You know, which was in the original Good Times.
Yeah, well, I am to be taken seriously because life is serious, or.
Don't want the legacy at Good Time to ultimately be.
I hope that we made people enjoy the process of a family that was able to stay cohesive and live together in spite of the financial conditions. That we had a tendency to be a part of but the fact that we tried to make as many people for happy as possible without placating them with patronizing them. We just did our job as artists.
And Good Time solved a lot of problems for people, showed people how you know, if you didn't have a father. John Namis was a father type to you, your mom, you know. So we did a lot for our people, I think, you know, and I would like it to stay that way.
And it helped us grow and stay grounded more than anything, you know. I like that part about it, you know, because I thoroughly enjoyed going to work. I was devastated, of course when John Amis's character left, but beyond that because I'm glad because my biological father, Ralph and John Amis got along life brothers, so it was you know, I had co fathers, so to speak. But the truth of the matter is is that I think that we left aunt a paramount impact on people because again we're
bombarded with positive energy. I know I am, and being that I'm able to walk the streets of Brooklyn on my own, I'm able to greet some about people. I don't walk around the streets son, Hey, look at me, I'm here. No, if anything, I know when to shut down. That's what I love about Jimmy Walker as a comedian. He's not always on. When Jimmy's locked into what he's gonna do, he's gonna do it. But other than that, no, you won't get him to say dynamite because he's already
done that. You can see the reruns. When you want to play that, you can do it like that. But I just think that working with our people here has been a reward for me because I've learned a tremendous a lot of information from Ben and Dead and from Jimmy.
What do you want the legacy to be? Mister Walker?
You know, I really hadn't thought about it until Norman Lear died and then everybody started jumping up and down about Norman dying and stuff like that. It really, I hate to say it, it never crossed my mind. I never, I never ever thought about it, just never.
In there.
Thinking about them girl calling girls and getting my shots on the When I was doing the David Letterman Show, which is my opinion, my alleged best work, I loved it. It was fabulous, you know, because Letterman started out with me as a writer, and uh, you know my writing staff. I'm so proud of all those guys. Is the old man that's dying. But it's them, I mean had Jay Leno, and Louis Anderson and and Elaine Boosler, who to me represents the good in women's comedy. She has the greatest
stuff because women. Now it's a little rough out here what women are doing. But Elaine wrote, great, clean, solid, monster jokes man, and this is perfect example. You won't see this kind of joke done anymore, but this is kind of joke she wrote. She says, men are so hypocritical. They want you to scream. Now, this is the best you've ever had while swaying. You've never done this before. Now see that, to me is a joke. That's a solid, killer, monster, clean joke that is.
Well.
Please, I'm sorry all those people on your writing staff. Yeah, Jay Leno, Louis Anderson, Elaine Boosler, Ralphie may Byron now started me he was fourteen years old. No, he started writing for me? Is doing jokes for me? I always tell the same thing, but it's true. He was doing comedy, claiming he was eighteen years old at the store. Okay, got on one of my writers saw him. He says, do you write? He says, yeah, I do write. He says, could you write for Jimmy Walker? He says, ja ja Yeah.
He says, oh yeah, I could do it. So he calls me up. And I got Leono at the house, and I got Louis at the house, and I got David let him in at the house, and I got Ralphie May at the house. And I said, well, says Wayne, Wayne the joke train says, you're good. Once you come over the house and we'll see what you got. He says, I'll come over, but I have to wait for my mom. I said, why, what's happening? He said, my mom has to drive me over.
Wow.
I said, drive you over? He says, yeah, I'm fourteen years old. I said, oh okay. Because his mom worked for NBC. She was she was on staff over there as a pr gal. Right, so it comes over. First joke Byron never wrote for me fourteen years old. First joke he says white people black people are much different. Says white people go to a movie, they don't like it. They say, I would like my money back. This is what black people go to the movie. He says, I
didn't like this movie. I want everybody's money back. Fourteen year old that joke. Wow, see that's the kind of stuff I look for.
Got you And now he just mentioned it. But do you get tired of saying not on my.
Do people go to it?
No?
Don't do it?
No, no, no, no, I'm not asking to say no. I'm going to ask.
No.
I would never ask. I would say, do you get tired?
Because I mean, people don't really people don't really ask because the comedy crowd is different than a TV crowd. You know, they come, if that's all I did, people go, well, it wasn't worth paying to see this guy because that's all he did. But when you see my act, people go, you know, I think some of the best comments I've ever got. My guys who are valets because I travel every week to do the road, they go, hey, man, we saw that specially did with Michael Winslow. You know,
we always knew you were funny. This is much better than I ever thought that you had. I didn't know you had this kind of stuff. That to me is like a great compliment.
I like that.
I just feel like a white man asking you to dance.
No, I don't.
You know.
People ask, but I don't really do it, but I have. I never did it in my act until recently. I found a spot for it and it works great. So it's a very good piece. I have to admit that I wrote it myself. Thank you. I can't really do it now, and it's not dirty. I don't do any dirt or anything like that. That's another thing. I grew up in the non dirt area. And there's only I'm not kidding, allegedly there's nine thousand comics making twenty five thousand or more up to the Dave Chappelle two hundred
thousand a night kind of level. I would say there's no more other than the religious guys, the Ricky Smiley type of cats. I would say there's no more than twenty five clean guys in America and girl girls. I'm stunned. I don't think there's any Well, no, she's not a joke. I don't think. I to me, I haven't I got she's got. I got Wendie Leeman, I got Ellen DeGeneres, I got elayinne Boozler. And I'm going to add on three more just for the kicks. That maybe I left out.
I don't think there's ten clean women comics in America. I don't think there are. I mean, maybe there's somebody I'm missing. I have not met them. And see, when I started, women were the cleanest. They were talking about their husbands or their boyfriends. And I think the joke I just did by Elaine or if you look at Ellen that that to me is the hardest stuff to do. That And women now they're talking about their sexual act.
From the beginning, I met this guy and I went home and I did this and I did that, and he couldn't do it. You go, hey, easy, I don't want to know about all that. You know, that kind of stuff like that.
They call you back, you don't want to know about all I'm not in a public setting.
If they do it on stage, I mean they talk about it on stage where you just go.
Oh my god, I'm on you to be funny.
Yeah, that's it, you know. And see, I tell comics all the time, whether they're women or men, if you do the F word or whatever, if you only do it once, it will have more impact than just saying it all the time, all the time, all the time. If you say it once or twice, it will have
tremendous impact. You know, I always bring up and I don't mean the curse about anything, but I always bring up Cosby, who I think is the most devastating thing I've gone through with the Cosby thing because I opened for Cosby for like two three years and I knew they had a lot of women. That was the thing that But see, to me, this is Camille's problem. It's
not our problem. It's Camille's problem. And I think what killed Cosby, and I say this all the time, was that he got on and he stood on top of a mountain saying, I'm America's dad, follow me, pull your pants up. Don't use language. I think, and I've always used this line. It's true. I think if he hadn't done that, if he hadn't been such the guy to just say you can't do this, I think it would
have gone away. And I used this. If it had been Mick Jagger, nobody would have said anything, because you know, Mick Jagger has had more women than Cosbrey's had. But you'll never know about it because you go, it's the Rolling Stones, man, what do you expect? But Cosmy gives us. I would never do that. I raised my kids, I've done my so you got to come down off the mountain. Sometimes, unless you're totally innocent.
You agree with that take. You agree with that take?
Yeah, way, you know, well, we appreciate you guys for joining us.
Fifteen the lyrics to the theme song.
You'll all know that.
No, I don't know it. I think Rolf knows it.
Just looking out of the window watching yesphalt girl, seeing how it all looks. Tear me down, but you're keeping your head above water, making a wave when you can. Temporary layoffs, good times, easy credit, ripall good time, scratching and surviving, good good times. Hanging in a child line.
That's how I have.
Yes, it is hanging in versions, hanging in.
Ting and and driving. But also I have on document and my archive hanging in the child, so they versions of it. However, it really caught on the way that the wonderful Ja wrote this the the soundtrack for moving on Up for the Jeffersons do Wise, there is the writer and the musician and the vocalist that sings that song, so that in itself, when you deal with themed songs, and when we were coming on y'all were grace is
enough to play for us. So it was a nice way to walk into your sound studio, and we thank you.
So the mystery continued. We still don't know if it's hanging in the child.
Hanging, it's hanging in and giving.
Yeah, that's what it is, Anderne. They're not going to have this going on for a while.
Jim Jim Gilsdraft, the one who sung it, told me. He said it was hanging in and giving.
That's what it was.
But it came off I don't know if it was the annunciation of it or not, but it came off as hanging in a chow line. It sounds that way, but it really was hanging in and giving.
And there's a second verse that people have never heard that goes to the same song. So the information that I do have it has what I'm saying.
That's a little.
Singing in the shower.
So you guys have been wonderful. I thank you for thinking enough of us. Again to your listening audience, we thank you again for wonderful fifty years. May you be blessed by every do you breathe in every beat of your heart.
Thank you very much.
That's right. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, thank you.
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club