Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Everybody is DJ en Vy Jess hilarious, Charlamage the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed we have draw called Michael.
I'll be doing your voice in the showers more than everybody's DJ. Like, think about you. Yeah, yeah, you know what. Let's lean into all the gay. Sometimes when I'm naked, I think about DJA. Yes, yes, yes, yes, happy to see you. Happy to see you, bro. So I'm always happy when people come right after donkey of today. Oh my god, let me tell you something. I was responding to you like Monique, like I was in my house just pacing around. Just be like Leonard your mother said
about giving me. No, let's talk about that. So there's a couple of things I want to make clear about that.
But let's shot off for people that don't know you.
People will see the ship. It'll be the video right up next to me in the first coat with the ear rings here today. Whatever. So how you doing first? We'll get to that lady. No, No, you got some ship to settle first.
Okay, So Charlamaine gave you donkey to day gave me donkey.
No, no, I'm gonna get into it. Okay. So first of all, because the thing I want to clear up and is very very important if people got a short attention span, I want to make sure that they hear this part first, because you report it on you You played a clip of my stand up, but it started at the punchline, and it like completely erased the setup of it. And I really don't like that. It made it seem like I was talking like I'm into some type of race sexual slavery role play with my boyfriend,
which is untrue. It's so false, and I expect that type of thing from TMZ because they have no humanity. They don't care about the people that get hurt when they report these sort of things. But you were a friend, so I really didn't like that, Like, like I know, you repeated it in the Neil interview. I didn't like that that that was very very unfair. It was a joke. But yeah, but I need you to watch the show and anybody who watches the show, it's not what I said.
It is so false, it's so untrue, and I don't like that because it's like, no, well, we'll get into that later. Uh, it has nothing to do with my boyfriend. It has nothing like the sex that we have. It has nothing to do with sex. It's something that like people have been reporting on and I really really don't like it. It's about my boyfriend reading so much he makes me feel insecure about my level of reading. And look,
I get it. It Like it's something that people have been running with because one because I have a white boyfriend, so like people like try and create some type of crazy story out of that, like, and it's a small group of people really like I read all the tweets and it's like some gay black men and some klu Klux clan members who don't like that I have a white boyfriend. They agree on that, so congratulations, like the Klan and doctor Lumar and you know, some people find
some common ground on that. But he's a human being. He deserves respect. I deserve respect. I don't appreciate things being misreported or like said about them in that way. It's completely false. So I don't like that. I just want to make that clear. That's that's not something. I know you were just reading the news, but like you're a friend, and I want you to like actually have nuance with these stories like, look, I'm a human being
and like people are, people can get hurt. They're actually real lives at stake with the things that you say, and look, come after me, that's fine, but don't come after like my my boyfriend. Well, I'm saying when that's in the headline and that's reported like and then misreported like oh he's into race slave play with his white boyfriend, I don't like that headline because it's false. It is not true at all. Now on to Dave Chappelle.
No, I want to stay to the joke, though in context the joke still not a good joke.
That's on you comedy for a while. I got.
I got because you're still saying you're a slave.
No slave math is teaching you know, Listen, I'm talking about my own personal insecurity. I'm an educated person. I'm usually the smartest person in the room. He reads so much it makes me feel like, oh do I even know how to read? That joke works if I had a black boyfriend, my boyfriend were black, that joke actually works better.
And you the slave and the white person is the slave.
Listen, if you and you're from North Carolina, where you know the first anti literacy laws were created in North and soud Caline. You are sure, sure, but that's not my roles comedian to started getting into like like literacy laws and stuff like that. You completely lost that I evoked provocative imagery sometimes in my jokes. Some people are very sensitive to that. That's your right. You don't have to laugh at that. You could like hear the word
slavery and completely shut off. That's completely fine, But don't misconstrue what I said and don't like make it into something that is not, because that's where I start to get offended. I don't know that that the statement like you said it like multiple times on the show, like, oh, he's into slave role play with his white boyfriend. That's untrue.
I said it like that.
I think I've said Charlemagne, that is not the joke. The joke's about me reading the jokes about my insecurity, about like not being as well read when I be in bed next to him and he's on. When I'm in bed next to him and he's like on his third novel of the month, I'll be watching breakfast club interviews and I feel like, oh, I should read more. That's what the joke is. The joke it has nothing to do with sex, has nothing to do with the type of sex that we have. And that's just absolutely false.
But still not a good joke when you're black and hey, listen, that's on you. It's on you.
You do stand up and you figure it out for me, the crowds laugh whatever. I'll say this about if the crowd is.
The majority white, are they laughing with you? Are at you?
You know, it's fun. I'm actually I'm actually shocked. It's like a pretty decent amount of black people coming out to see you. I really appreciate y'all for coming out. I want y'all to keep coming out too. I like I like the seeing it really especially black women are like in the crowd. They've been like talking to me. They seem invested in my life, and it makes me feel really really special. So I really like that and
I appreciate that. Now, I want to move on to the Dave Chappelle portion of it, because I've heard you comment on that too. I deeply regret ever saying anything about Dave Chappelle to the press. I want to say that I'm sorry for that, because one I'm a huge. Dave Chappelle Dave Chappelle fan. I love Dave like. I think he's brilliant. I think he's a bright light in
a dying industry. I think he's more important now than ever before, because, like comedians are now just posting clips that him doing crowd work online and calling it art and it's not right. Dave Chappelle is an artist. He's one of the few artists that we have, and I care deeply about the work that he makes. With that said, the criticism that I had had nothing to do with the morality of the joke, had nothing to do with the ethics of the joke. That's something that's also been misreported.
The criticism I had was that of a fan, someone who respects him so much that I want him to focus his genius on a wide range of topics. I think like it started, but it started being really really focused on one thing. Well, I'll say this. Look, that's like I'm saying that about the slave yoall I'll say. I'll say this. I'm also a big fan of jay Z. If jay Z made three albums about trans people, I'd
be like, Hey, what's going on with jay? But jay Z made three albums more than three albums about selling drugs. You don't you just don't put him in that. Uh, you don't pigeonhole them with dead no they jay Z. I mean, listen, I would love to get to a jay Z argument. Jay Z was very personal, very emotional. He always evolved. Four four four was incredible because it showed growth and evolution and something you've never seen before
and rap, And that's a thing with comedy too. Comedy doesn't grow, Comedy doesn't evolve, It's it's kind of stunted like rap, and like we just started getting like real braggadocious, like antagonistic with the crowd, and it can evolve, like and we need smart people like Dave, like Chris Rock, like myself to actually evolve the art form because it
is dying. It's so so important for people to go up and do deep personal stories or have a deep perspective about things going on in the world because it's not happening but you see it online. Yeah, I know, Listen, all I'm saying is And because I've talked about Dave a lot, I don't want to talk about Dave anymore. I honestly I called him an eagle manac, I'm a eago maniac. I'm here to talk about me. I have a show that I want to talk about, talk about. Yeah, yeah,
I know you know what. And I'll tell you honestly, from now on, any thoughts I have for Dave will be directed in a phone call to day. I'll never do it again. I'll never I I do apologize for that, Like I'm man enough to say that, I that is wrong. I don't. I don't need it. I don't want the attention. It's going on way too long, don't want it at all. I'm here to talk about me. Did it change after you got I guess taken out of context after this slave?
Because it never changed. No, it never changed. It had like it had nothing to do with that. Like I I think that again with the press, the same thing, TMZ. It's funny because that's the thing that happened, Like, you know, I get asked about Dave or Cosby or something like that. Like it is almost like the press and like you know, they want to perpetuate it. Beat well, it's just like, hey,
like what's going on with you? When this other black man like John Laney don't get asked about Jerry Seinfeld the way I get asked about other black comedians like that. That's just like I don't like that either. These are like there are few artists in this art form. There are so few artists people actually doing art, people that not doing podcasts, not doing like crowd work videos online, people that are actually doing the art. He's one of the few. I have a deep respect for him. And
that's that's all I'll say. And let's hope TMZ reports everything I just said, because like I'm saying, yeah, I apologize to myself for making like making this whole thing get out of proportion, like I should never said anything again. I really want to talk about me. That's what I'm here for to talked about myself.
Seanaman.
He said he was upset because he could sider you guys friends and that you went off the rail without having a conversation.
Did you watch the show? Did you? I texted you last night? You watch it? You've been watching it? Did you watch the next episode? No?
I watched the first four, the first three.
You're gonna love the next episode. So respond to what he said, because you know he considered you guys friends and my friend. I want you to apologize.
But if you feel the way, I think that Charlamagne should apologize him as well.
I don't feel like I want to apologize, don't you.
Well i'm talking about person. Would you want me to give you one of these half assed bullshit industry? But I don't feel like I need to apologize. I think I made myself clear. I have no need for an apology if it and I'm like, you know what, that was wrong? But in the moment, well, I'll wait for that when I'm in the shower thinking about d J. And I know that's anyway I want you to. I want you to watch this next episode because this next week I'm gonna road trip with my dad to devilin,
South Carolina, where he's from. That's where he was your Monk's corner. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. No. The episode is really good because I have a conversation with him and I say things that I was afraid to say, and this.
Is the reality.
Yea yeah, but just shooting at everybody I wanted.
I wanted to be said in the comment section that I came with love. I came with candles and flowers and love. That's right. Yeah, just come on, like just I need you. I do have one more question about that, though, Like, do you think a comedian should ever call another comedian offensive or implied to another comedian is being offensive because you could easily offend. I'll say comedians can do whatever they want. I don't want to be a comedian who
speaks about other comedians. I make art that I like. I make things that I want the world to see. I focus all my energy and attention on myself and my art and my work, and that's what I want to be known for. And I don't care. I'm not on Twitter talking about other comedians. I'm knowing podcasts like I mean, you know me, I don't talk about anything but myself like that. That's why I'm upset that the whole thing got blown out of proportion because I don't
talk about anything other than myself. I'm I'm so focused on my own work. I think it's important. I think people should see it, and that's why I'm here. Okay.
Now, you also talk about black women being super supportive when you first came out, but also being mad at you at the same time.
Oh, because I got a white boyfriend. Yeah, you know, it's It's funny they met my boyfriend. They love him like my boyfriend. My boyfriend is actually he's so real. That's part of the reason, like that any lie about him makes me upset because he's so he's so real. My homegirl ivery loves Mike. Mike doesn't engage in small talk. That's the thing that I actually am trying to learn because.
Like I can my next book, why small talk sucks.
Hey, there we go. You got to meet my boyfriend, and like he doesn't do it at all. If you talk to him about the weather, he'll just be quiet. And I'm trying to learn that. Like I'd be out in the world just lying to people just like, oh, no, good shirt, just like I have a lot of good shirt conversations. It's all. It's all. I got to stop doing that. I don't like that.
How does he feel when you because you talk about your life on the reality show? How does you feel when you talk about your sexcapage or even your conversation with Tyler to createor how does it make him feel?
Funny do you have conversation before?
Yeah, he knows all of it. I mean it's funny because our relationship began. I started shooting the reality show, and then our relationship began. So he like he came in at a time when I'm dealing with a lot of things, and the show is just about me, like me trying to explore all these deep things about myself and being in therapy, trying to work through problems, like trying to trying to like I'm exposing it's the most
vulnerable show of all time. Like you've never seen a show more vulnerable than this?
Did he make you more comfortable with that?
He makes me more uncomfortable life. But I think I'm a better person because my boyfriend. I feel so much calmer now. Like I'm a person that had a lot of anxiety, and you could see it even in the first episode. You could see like it's me trying to get all my anxiety out. I think that's why the audience feels that way. They feel a little awkward, because that's that's how I felt. I think it transmutes into
the art form. I was somebody that was just like constantly scared, constantly nervous, afraid of how I would be perceived, Afraid of like you know, like coming in masculine environments as a gay man, Like just terrified all the time, afraid of the kind of sex I was having. I was I was thinking about that because people have been talking about like I put like a foot in my mouth in the in the first episode, people call people yeah, you know, and I want to also want to set
the records right. He was Guatemalan. People say it's white toes. He was Guatemalan. Maybe that doesn't matter to some people, but it's like I told the tone, I've had some black peet my mouth too. I was afraid of the type of sex I was having. I thought it was dirty and so wrong, and like I used to get like HIV tests once a week because I thought I was like I was having like dirty forbidden like god forbidden sex, and I was like I viewed myself negatively
and the gay man that normal. No, no, that that level of shame.
I'm talking about getting the HIV test.
Yeah. But and I'll say this, but that's that's also the you know, actually an actual fact more straight people get HIV now than gay men, like because straight people don't check on themselves as much as gay men on sexual health because you have to be and like like you know that that's the thing that was actually psychological that was me thinking that God was punishing me because something I was doing was so wrong and that is a horrible thing to live with. And people gay, straight, whatever,
have a lot of sexual shame. They're afraid of things. So I was doing things like on camera to liberate myself, like it was important for me to like eradicate that shame, Like I put a foot, I put a foot in my mouth for y'all. A lot of people don't think you're really gay, though, and they think that you just put the foot in your mouth to kind of prove that you get And it was like if he was really gay, you the stuff they dig on camp, right, I mean, you know, only fans coming soon, I guess.
You know. There's a lot of silly things. There are people who get that news from Twitter. They're crazy.
What did you meet your boyfriend? What did you mean?
How did you We met? Thro a mutual friend. We met years ago in l A and then and we started dating. Uh uh, it's been a year and a half now.
It wasn't scene when you were I'm sorry the thing with Tyler?
Yeah, yeah, Just how are you doing. I'm good? How you been I'm good? I look, hey, can I say I'm so proud of you, and I don't mean that in the condescending way, because people sometimes use pride like like I'm proud of you, like I'm above you. I'm so proud of you. I love you very very much.
You don't try to disarmor.
She's I'm can you tell to see me and listen showed up.
Showed up by wiz camera in the green room, like years and years ago when I first started doing comedy.
London, when London kicked him outcau.
She didn't know who he was.
I didn't know who he wasn't he He was just like okay, I'll leave him, Like no, wait, this is jer She was.
Like, oh guy, yeah, no no. And I've been a fan of yours, like for for a very long time. We worked on time I gave just a TV. I saw I saw that she was a star, like you know, like look at me trying to take credit for how you was the one who got her own row what you're talking about. I saw my sister's Instagram. It was like, she's a star. She's incredible, She's a star. I was
like like her, like I was, I was. I was in Dana Walden office and Fox like demanding, demanding they put you on the air because you and rightfully so like I don't need it out. Yeah yeah, listen, give her all credit to whatever you know. I'm like little Richard, I get overlooked for all types of ship anyway. No, You're incredible and I'm really really happy for you.
I appreciate you.
Know what I mean. I love you.
Told us I was like, we need to get him up here so we can talk about it.
I wanted to come to the New space and come when you were here.
Yes, So I wanted to ask you about you and Tyler because y'all are actually really friends. Yeah right, yeah with that like for fun or did you really really have romantic feelings for Tyler?
Yeah? I did. I was in turmoil over that for a year, and that's a hard thing to deal with. Of course, is like I've seen people online talk about as awkward as cringe. Yeah. Yeah, having feelings for your best friend is very awkward, very very cringe. I'm thankful that he did it because I've never seen a conversation like that played out on television or in any space, and I thought it was really really important. I've never like I've never seen like a black man expressed feelings
for another black man like that ever before. And I'm trying to make art that I wish i'd seen as a kid. I'm trying to make things and put things out there that I needed, and so it was really important. I thought it was a really important conversation. I'm so thankful to Tyler for doing it.
Because when you say he called you stupid, like he laughed about it, did that really hurt your feelings or it's just like, oh, because I.
Getting caught a stupid bitchy but stupid bitch.
I know black all my that's feed to be a bit all the time.
So it was just like, okay, cool, But it really did hurt you see what he said?
Yeah, I was watching it. I stayed up late for that too. I've made a sandwich. I was up at three in the morning. I wasn't feel about it. You staying up late to watch Tyler. I was on FaceTime with him. Oh yeah, yeah, no, like like you know, he's emotionally evolved. I'm the one that's trying to catch up.
Get jealous at all.
Yeah, there's jealousy for sure. Jealousy. I'm jealous of him. He goes to the gym, like you be getting hit on the stuff. Like it's like, yeah, there's a lot of jealousy. I'm learning to deal with that, like I'm trying.
To How does he deal with it?
I mean that's a question for him. I think, Yeah, we talk about it. That's the thing public. Yeah, yeah, I'm public, but but that's something that we talk about. That And that's kind of the point of the show. Like all these things, these feelings that you don't talk about, things that you could just harbor, you could go to sleep at night, never say, like we talk about these things.
It's so important. What do you think about teleperformance? I know just asked you that Tyler is an aesthetic genius sonically. He has chords that I mean, I think that's part of the reason we became friends, because there's a certain sound that I think we both relate to. He's he's great, He's one of them. He said, you're trying to I bet y'all saw my best friend trying to fuck me on camera. I thought it was funny. That was funny. No,
I love the performance. The performance itself was great, like and I don't want to be a distraction from his work. It's great. I'm thankful that he had the conversation, and I think he's one of the few like him Beyonce, like he wanted a few live performers that deserve all the praise that they get. He's so incredible.
What's your relationship now, y'all?
Cool?
After the conversations, I mean he's.
Making jokes about it. We cool. I mean we moved on, like I have. You know, I've definitely moved on. It was a very, very tough moment in my life, and I have nothing but gratitude for him for doing that on camera as wild right, But it was hard off camera. That was a difficult thing to deal with off camera. A whole year friend, Yeah, yeah, I was. I was on music Soul Child have crazy mode for why not reach out to him during that year? He called me
a stupid bitch, Charlainne. Did you watch the show? Thank you? But that's your friend, somebody you love and care for. What I was thinking of, like, well, why would he let a whole year go by?
Why would either wanted him let a whole year?
Well, it's very easy. So that's the thing. It's very easy for things to like just fall back into the elephant in the room, like, Okay, we're not going to talk about it. We just go to breakfast. Like I have that same relationship with my parents where it's like, oh, there are things that we don't really want to talk about, so we don't and we engage in small talk. We talk about everything else, and and and that's what the show was. The show was an excuse to have a
difficult conversation that I'd otherwise be afraid to have. How is when you were sitting there eating it with Tyler, it felt like, and I know in TV time, I don't know how long it was, but it felt like there was just a long moment where y'all said nothing parts he says, I'll call you next week. How long was that whole scene? I mean it was longer. It was longer than what you saw, no conversation. Yeah, I mean that's how real life plays out sometimes, you know.
And and I like the show because the show lives in silences. It lives in like moments like there's a credit Elvis Mitchell that like called me, and it was like I really loved the silence of the show. I really loved that it kind of lives and they they are these moments where the show takes its time.
I was asking about your family.
You know, how was it with your family seeing everything up close and personal, because at one time you said it was difficult when you first came out to talk to your family.
No, I haven't.
I haven't seen it.
You haven't seen it. I'm having sex dreams about you and you didn't sell. I'm joking. I don't want to make you uncomfortable.
Uncomfortable I sup your family, but now it's don't care. I know you're super you're super straight. You got to chain all like it's just like anybody that a little Okay, I didn't mean to start.
I didn't mean. I'm joking. I didn't want to like anyway, whoa, that's not true.
You'll got me like Cameron now, Like, yeah, I was asking, so how is that your family seeing everything?
My dad's super nervous, uh episode his episodes coming up this week, you know, like he'd be calling me, like pretending he's just checking on me, you know, but he really wants to know about it. It's a wild thing. Like just imagine me and from where I'm from, you know, your son's all HBO every week dealing with personal family things. That's insane. That's insane. So I respect my family for dealing with these things on camera. They know that that's my way. And and uh, yeah, he's a little nervous.
My my mom is an evangelist, so she feels as long as she gets the word of God out there, like she's a good she's all good. Yeah. Yeah. My mom is one of the few people in the world who is exactly who she says she is, and that's caused some tension in our life. But I also totally respect her.
How did your mom? How do you think black women in general will feel about you referring to your mother as a bitch?
Oh? Man, that's been the family been the family been having. They got a group chat without me talking about that. You know, it's funny that I actually didn't consider that like when I said it, And maybe that's me being inconsiderate, and maybe there is some like latent hurt that is coming out when I when I say that, I actually wasn't saying I love my mother. I have a deep respect from my mother, and I only said it. I say it kind of casually, kind of gay, like just
on stage. I say it just nonchalantly. I just I call people bitches and niggas all the time, Like I you know, listen, you.
Can call your dad a nigga. You can that a bit with your mom.
But you're gonna get mad at Tyler for a year because he says.
Well, it wasn't it was the dismissal of the emotion. Yeah, it wasn't just that. It was that that was all he said. But no, with my mom, now that's something that we talked about. I would rather focus on the emotion behind it. It's like it's easy to get hung up on it. Actually get really really angry at my family when they start talking about, like, you know, my dad called He's like, I don't like that you call your mom a bitch. I'm like, that's the worst thing
we've done to my mother. Like I think, I think as a family, we've done worse, you know. And and I think that it's easy sometimes that surface level conversation is all people have access to. It is the thing that people want to talk about because it's easy. But just don't say that word. It's like, Hey, what's behind that word? Why do you think I'm saying? Do you see the hurt in my eyes? Do you hear it
in my voice? Like, I'm hurt and I'm revealing a lot in this show, and the family can't talk about that sometimes, so they just focus on the very easy thing.
So more so, why did you call her a bitch?
Well? Why am I hurt?
Yeah?
What's the cause of the hurt? Like you know, like I feel rejected by my creator. That's a difficult thing to live with. Like, you know, I'm not the only person that's living with like some issues with their parents, with their mom or you just you don't see eye to eye and it makes you feel bad about yourself. That's how I feel. And that's a really really hard thing to live with. And I'm trying to make art and trying to make sense of all of it, but
it's really tough. What would you say to people who would say your mom is homophobic? But when I look at it, I say, no, she's very religious, So I think she's looking at it through the religious of religion. Yeah, yeah, and I think that. I think at some point you have to think about how you got to the place
that you are. I had a really good conversation with my mom about even her finding religion and needing religion about the hurt, the disappointment in her life from her dad and from other people in her life that led her to needing God as much as she does and depending on God as so much she does. And we were having a really, really good conversation that my dad woke up and interrupted. It was yeah, yeah, but you know,
but you have to explore your life. You got to explore the reasons why, because you can hurt people, like I know, like people call it faith whatever, but they are human beings and like your opinion, my mother's opinion of me matters so much. Absolutely. I also wondered when you was It was a scene where you was It looked like you was literally sitting in the closet, I'm not trying to be funny, and you were saying how you felt spiritually unclean.
Yeah, you said you felt like a black buck and a cup.
I wondered what your mother thought about that, especially the spiritually unclean part. Yeah, you know, my mom said she said a funny thing because she saw the hookups and like how much I talk about sex in the show. She was like, the one thing she did say about the show, she was like, I just want you to note that your body is a temple, you know, And I got mad. I got offended by that because I
was like, I see the grosses you buy. You be eating Beanie Whenies, you know, wies, little little hot dogs, little hot dogs cut up in parking beans. I was like, you invite Beanie Whenies into your temple, you know, my temple was actually that's actually, that's the actually that's maybe I'm from the South, that's like it. But but but but my mom. Yeah, yeah, man, we only have time. That's like a whole special work. So why I guess my thing though, is why I keep living like that?
If you feel like you said, you feel like a black white book in a cook strong Well, a lot of the show is me trying to figure out, like working through those things, like working through the shame that I have, working through a lot of the problems that that I have in my life. Yeah, it's it's a feeling. I expressed my feelings, and I'm expressing them on camera for the world to dissect, for you know, people to
kind of therapize. But I it was a feeling I was having in that moment, and I was conflicted about it. Isn't that a racial component if you're saying you feel like a black buck, and there's a part of you to ask to be like why do I keep hooking up with all these white men? Yeah? But I mean that I've been reading a lot and so that was just like, yeah, there there's all types of components. There's a sex addiction component to it, just like why why do I need sex to heal? Why do I turn
to that to feel better about myself? Like a lot of it's unhealthy, Like I definitely exhibit a lot of unhealthy behavior in the show.
But I think it also.
He's not the only one who's feeling that way obviously, So you're saying, like people therapized. I mean people can like get some type of therapy from your show, because you're not the.
Only person that has these conflicted feelings.
I have friends who have talked to me about the same thing that you're that you you know that you're putting out there on the show that you're actually going through this and on the camera on camera.
You know it actually it it rings.
I don't know, like some type of like awareness to you. Oh damn no, I'm not the only person feeling like this, and.
You're a good friend because I hope that they bring it to you because they know that you're a safe place and that you won't make them feel shame for anything that they're feeling. That's the difficult thing. It's hard. I mean, listen, I'm out here, I'll be getting crucified every week. But it's hard to reveal things about yourself because you're afraid. You're afraid people are gonna throw stones. I've definitely been afraid. I feel like a turtle without a shell.
I mean, I think it's good because you're opening yourself up to people that might be going through the same problems that you're going through and too scared to share, or too scared that.
I was too scared. I lived most of my life terrified, terrified to reveal anything about myself, like just trying to just living behind a mask. It's so unhealthy, and I was really hurting myself. And I'm putting myself out there so that people can feel and see that it's okay.
And that's why I was so shocked.
I was like, wow, he I feel like I'm watching something that I'm not supposed to know about him. I'm feeling, you know what I mean, Just to be that vulnerable on a show. What made you want to do it now?
Like?
Well, because after I came out, I realized that there are other things I needed to come out about. I think everybody's in a closet about something, and I was in a closet. It was more than just being gay. It was about of feelings that I have. I was in a closet about you know, sex, addiction, or how I am as a friend or all these things. Like just like I was a closeted person. I was holding everything inside and the show was an outlet for me.
I'm an artist, and I use art as a means of expression and as a means to heal, and so the show just felt like a natural. I was doing all these shows, I was doing stand up, and stand up started being kind of a form of therapy. It was like a re associated therapy that I would just go up and I would talk about a problem that I have, a deep personal problem that I have, and the response from the audience started being better. That's what
I mean. Like people coming to the shows, like like the heckles that I get as a comedian are so thoughtful. Like no comedian gets like the thought like people turn into therapists in the.
Yeah, I'm not.
I watched that. Yes, I was like, those heckles aren't real the audiences. No, No, like people are smart. I believe that. I believe that, like Twitter isn't just the that's not what the world is it. Yeah, listen, sometimes I search your name to make me feel better about myself.
Charlot made no, but but I like no, all my my, the heckles that I get are thoughtful responses because you open yourself up and people open themselves up like like they they respond in kind And so I'm glad you're good friends and your friends who are expressing themselves to you.
How did you deal with the sex edition? Sex Edition?
I'm still I'm still.
He's dealing with it, trying to figure it out.
And I'm getting my candle everywhere. But now shows you you just be on grind before your boyfriend.
You was on grind just that was old.
That was that had to be before your boyfriend, before my boyfriend.
And you know, but yeah, sex sex sex is something else. Man. You gotta keep watching the show. You gotta watch. Do you get all the episodes yees three. I'm waiting on the link. Can you send the link with all the episodes because I want to see all of it. Yeah. You had a good explanation, though, you said, because you waited so long to come out.
Yeah, so now you feel like a seventeen year old.
Yeah, yeah, making up making up for lost time, Like just like, yeah, they're they're at Like my emotional maturity level was a bit delayed. That's it's a little embarrassing to admit, but true. But even that, I do think there are certain aspects of my personality that I inherit from my father. I've been reading about that a lot, just like being you know, you you learn how to be a man from your dad, And I learned hes gonna get mad because he's gonna watch this, always throwing
me under the bus. But it's just true, like it's something you learn therapy that like, oh, this is how you model yourself as a man, and and and so we look to sex as a as a form of validation for my manlihood, like to make me feel like a man. What you're saying is absolutely true. And I've said that numerous times too. But I guess for me, I'm with I'm with women. Yeah, so to do that
with other men. You got a dady from the Caro Carolina, I got daddy from sciecingline and well not looking at you like more of a man because you sleep with a bunch of guys. Yeah. Well here's the thing. I mean, Listen, the difference between me and my dad is that I don't leave a trail of children, you know what I mean. Like, I'm thankful for that, thank god, because if I was straight, i'd have seventeen kids. Like that's the only difference. Yeah, yeah, thank god for that. There is a part in the
show where your friend with the the mask. Yeah, one of the most honest moments I've seen on the show as far as when he says to you, this isn't honesty.
Yeah, you got all these cameras because that's what it feels like.
It feels like it's a curated To me, it feels like it's a curated exhibition of your sexual exploits.
Yeah.
I don't see that.
I don't see the truth that you're trying to reveal.
You. Look, my job is to remain truthful through all of it, and to be truthful on camera and to like just be like myself, I stay out of the editing room, and there's some truth to that. Yeah, this is definitely something that's truncated to thirty minute episodes for people to consume and enjoy. But I'm truthful in it. That's what's important to me, that I'm truthful and I'm really going through these things, like none of that's made up, none of that's for the show, none of that's for
the camera. Like these things, I'm really going through real problems in my life.
What is this show doing for you that therapy can.
Been using it as a form of therapy, because therapy is exploring yourself and exploring your past, but it's not necessarily confrontation. I still needed a tool to be confident enough to have a conversation with my dad that I'd be terrified having otherwise, Like you know, if I'm home in North Carolina, I'm just like, you know, smiling, being a good son, being the son that they want me to be. And I'm not saying the real things, asking
the real questions when the camera's on. I've become like a journalist for my own life, Like no, no, no, what's that shit you said? Ninety eight? You know, I get real real, but but without the cameras. I'm afraid you think if y'all did family there, but you think you would be still afraid, Like, yeah, I want to get my family to well. I think individual is really important because you need to work on yourself and you bring that to your life, you bring that to the people
in your life. I think that's really really important. And it's funny because therapy is one of those things. I know, you talk about it a lot, and it's easy, Like I don't want people to get a negative like I know, like some of the comments would be like, oh, everybody's always talking about therapy, but those are people that need therapy the most. But like, it's an excuse to talk
about yourself, that's all it is. It's just an excuse to explore things in your life that you wouldn't normally explore things that you and those things manifest as health problems, they manifest in in ways that you wouldn't imagine. They manifest problems in your relationship, problems with raising your kids. Like, these things are real, they'll come out. It doesn't just stay bottled in. It harms your body, it harms your spirit. So it's worth talking about. And I want my family
to do it. I think that it would be beneficial to all of us. But I'm doing it. That's really really important that I'm doing it. I'm I'm working on myself constantly.
You do show how much of a shitty friend you are too?
Yeah? No, what you did? I know? I know. Can I tell you you can't be a best man in a wedding and show up an hour later? Yeah, to the wedding.
It's not your wedding and then compare it to jury duty? Why? You know?
Look when is it heart? Because I'm a performer, and so I look at weddings as a show, like, all right, what is this show that we're going to? But but I I love Pool and you know, I actually got to Ahad. We've been talking a lot. I hope that he liked the episode. Like he's a very sweet, thoughtful friend and inspired me so much, And so I know I was a bad friend. Again. It's hard exposed like the show. I'm like the villain of my own show.
I'm Eric Kane on my own show. Like I'm like people are like because I'm exposed, I'm exposing myself in a real way, Like the like some of the worst parts of myself I'm putting out there unedited, just like letting it, letting the world see and judge and criticize. But I feel bad for that, like I felt bad an episode of It's something I'm deeply apologetic for. I'm learning. I'm still growing. I'm learning to not be as selfish. Sure, that's a means of self protection. Like I'm selfish because
I'm scared. Uh, And I'm learning not be as afraid.
What about with jazz? How are things with jazz.
Just as good? Isn't she a good actress?
Was she acting?
For real?
She's crying on command? She's so good?
So I was not crying on command.
She's good, she's good. Listen, listen, if I may say so myself, I got a good eye. You know, you you the lead just but you know it is another justice out there. It's pretty big. Another thing you say on the show is being honest is cool until you have a reason to lie. Yeah, it's well because it's like I was living alone and I was the most honest that I'd ever been. I was just like I had no one could, no one was going home with me, so there was no there was no reason to like
lie to protect. But then I got into a relationship. I finally, I mean, it took me a long time. Took me thirty five years to find someone that I love deeply to be in a loving relationship. I'm so proud of it. I love them very much. And out of that love, sometimes I can fall into traps where I'm lying about myself because I want to protect the relationship. It's a habit, it's a real masculine habit. Or I'm lying, but I'm the protector, Like I'm lying for a good reason.
You kind of justify it, and some like lies b omission are there's still lies. He's like, but I when I have someone that I care about, somebody that I love, it's easy to slip into that old habit of of of lying because I want I want him to feel good about me. I his image of me is really really important to me.
And he says, it's hard to tell the truth to people you love.
Yeah, do you not feel that way? Do you not feel that way? Sometimes? Like like yeah, because the consequences are so the stakes are so high. I say that to my mom, Like like, sometimes I'm talking to my mom I'm like, hey, be careful what you say to me, because I'll remember it for the rest of my life. Every word that she says. It's so curious. Yeah yeah, but some.
Things I feel like need to be said.
Yeah some things. Yeah, some things, But you know it takes. Look, you want to say the truth with love and care, you know, but you the truth needs to come out. You don't want to hold onto anything. And sometimes lashing out isn't truthful. Sometimes lashing out.
Is just you emotion.
Yeah, you're being emotional about not saying the truth, like you're actually doing the opposite of absolutely is Michael an industry plant? Yeah? What what was that? Who said that we got? We got? Uh? Was that? Like a Corey holcom thing?
Is love?
I wish? Is that energy on a special? Cory is so funny? Corey? Corey is so funny. I was like, laughed so hard at Corey just when I was a young comic, like just watching them and it's like, man, you got like, don't get old. Yeah, his audience has to be Yeah, it's like Jesus Christy, I mean funny, it's funny, But but are you am I an industry plant? I mean, listen, I wish the Illuminati was real. I wish that I could be a plant. I had fucking
sign up in a heartbeat. No, I actually, unfortunately, I had to work hard to get where I am at the like like think and expose. I'm exposing so much of my life. That's the thing. Like sometimes you get these criticism from people who've made nothing, and I'm like, you know, that's what's offensive to me. It's like, no focus on your own work. I've worked very, very hard to get where I am. And but yeah, if I could have sucked the dick to get to the top, I suck because you want to do it. No, I'm
joking saying. I'm saying as a joke. I'm saying as a job like like like like I talk cause Littlerell was defending you on clubs. You know. You know the funny thing too, you know. I also like if I make now sound like a rapper, But like like a lot of these comedians who like criticized me, it's like no, no, Like before I came out, coming out was the hardest thing I ever did in my life. I was like afraid. I also I had multiple specials. I had uh sitcom on NBC that ran for three three seasons. I had
I was faking. I was getting other people shows like I was. I was more successful than I'm straight. So then to pretend that like, oh, like he came out, like that's silly, that's silly. I don't even entertain that. It feels like you've been trying to come out like the past three h field things you did though, because there was the other it was another reality show that was kind of even oh like the well, well I did documentaries about my life. Yeah, yeah, that was like that was my soft launch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
People were just like kind of dispisted, but whatever. In the stand up, well, that's when I was being truthful. I said it like it was. It was truthful. I said it ten tolls down, like this is who I am. And it's a hard thing. It's scary. Revealing something about yourself is really really scary. And that's that's the thing. Like with criticisms, I'm like, listen, look at yourself, look
at your own art. If you are to criticize me, please make sure you're making art that you care about more than a podcast, more than any of these things. Make sure you're making a tangible thing that people care about before you start attacking me.
I don't think being gay on TV is as shocking as it once was.
It was shocking in my personal life. That's all I care. Like. The art that I make is about the difficulty that I had. I'd tell my mother that and that's hard. Like yeah, like sure, like yeah, maybe yeah, maybe the landscape is changed. I'm thankful for any gay person. And it came out before. That made it a little bit easier for me, but it was still a very difficult thing to reveal about my life. And there you know that's that's not easy. It wasn't easy. I can tell
you're ready to go back. I want to ask because you just mentioned something. You said that you had all of this great stuff going on before you came out. So do you feel like coming out as gay is taking away the focus on on everything.
You've done in your career?
Now still exists streaming on Hulu? What's My Man? What happened to you? Mac? Was out there?
I google you? What's gonna come up to say?
What you said? If you google Dave, it's all transgender stuff things I talked about. Watch the show. I hope people watch the show like if you if you see the show, you'll see the truth. You know, I'm confident in that, Like you know, I think this, like up top, I was just upset because something untrue. Was I say enough things, enough true things to talk about, like I don't need any lies, like like I don't need any of that. But yeah, I'm I'm making art about my
life and and I'm really proud out of it. I hope people watch the show. That that's the important thing. I tent you out episodes. Please send it just and is it an episode of the show.
Damn me, I'm sitting online looking at clips, looking at stand ups that you've done because they.
Know each other, we've met before, about you in the shower, you in the showers, and they just send me anything wanted you old himself.
Because it comes on I mean after Bill ma.
I mean I liked, but it also comes on after Bill mar which is a great leader. Yeah, I'm already watching TV on. I think the show is funny, kind of funny, funny like man, y'all so straight. Yeah, it's just Paul funny, like Jesus Christ, you are so straight.
Congratulations call Michael, ladies and doing that brought you a candle. Thank you very much and I have to check out the reality show Fridays on HBO Max.
Thank you brother for joining us, Thanks for having me very much.
Wake that answer up in the morning Breakfast Club