Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
Everybody's the e j en Vy, Jess, Hilarry Charlamage, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club.
We got a special guest in the.
Belting, one of my favorite brothers on the planet.
Man, Brother, Jason Wilson.
Welcome brother, Welcome back to meet you. I'm doing well. All is well? What's up? Brother, Brother? That is a nice beard you got there. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. You Ja Jaly cat Daddy Now.
To be loving Jason will never see that you're crazy be.
Texting me like you know, Jason, that man is happily mard. I never see any of that. Yeah, that's good, that's good.
Yeah, man, But how are you though? I'm doing well? Man fought the fluent sinus affection. I was bet ridden like for six or seven days at the beginning of the year, couldn't work out, couldn't do anything, and just had allow my body to heal and practice what I preach and just rest and stop allowing my life to be centered around what I gotta do.
You know, your new book is called The Man. The Moment Demands Master. The ten characteristics of the comprehensive man. So the start of the year, right start of the year, you know, that's a reset for a lot of people. But you started the year, you know and sick. Yeah, six seven days, so it's not.
On the reset.
Yeah, you had to be completely Still. What did you realize in that moment?
I realized, you know that you know, as men, you know, we can't keep our foot to the throttle. You know, we stay in first gear of manhood, which I call just the masculine mode, which gets us from stop to start. But if we stay in that gear, we're gonna burn the clutch out in the process. I believe I was burning my life clutch out, just working really hard on this book and other things. And so it gave me a lot of time to sit with the most high and just meditate on allowing myself to just be instead
of performing. And that's what's so many men struggle with, just living performance based lives, and it's taking us out, you know. But they gave me time to reflect, and then you know, it's crazy. I had to beat sister be someone which they call like my daughter. Now, I had to do her podcast, and the Holy Spirit is like, I need you you're going to be weak, but you gotta go. I got something you gotta tell her, And so I barely could make the flight. I wanted to
make sure I wasn't contagious. Went down to the podcast, brother and my sister. Within a matter of maybe twenty minutes, the interview shifted from that to her, and I was able to answer one of her prayers. But if I wasn't weak, because I'm like, man, why would I get sick in this time when I need to promote this message most I was like, I needed you weak for my daughter, because if you're strong, you may not be broken enough for me to speak to you and to speak the words I need to say to her.
The episode ended with us praying, and it was very powerful.
But that weakness allowed me to be the man in that moment for her, you know, and a lot of time, I'm just man, we miss those moments because we feel we have to be perpetually strong, which we know by now with research that is killing us. And so that weakness in that moment was needed, and I'm thankful that I surrendered to that so I can be the man in the moment for be some.
Mom I'm absolutely grateful that you got to do that. That's one of my friends. Like she's always the one who is like spiritually strong for everybody else, Like she'll hit me out the blue, like even you know, she may get just because we connected in that way, me and her pretty v you know a few other people, but she she's always spiritually strong and the one praying for everybody all the time and just like putting her whatever she got going on to the side to make sure we're all good, you know.
So I'm happy that she was able to do.
It was deep, you know, I had shared with her, and I had no idea what my daughter was dealing with.
And I refer to my daughter. She's like my daughter's age.
But she and a lot of women I believe who are single, especially if your life is renewed in Christ, you feel that you being hidden is that you're not valuable. And I had to let her know that no one puts anything in the safe that's not valuable, and he's protecting you. It was a very powerful moment because it liberated her from the lies in her head. And so yeah, I've adopted her, so she's a family now.
But I'm glad I was able to meet that moment for her.
Wow, you got the book broken down into three parts, dynamic, deeper in devotion. Can you explain the difference?
But sure, the dynamic is what we as men are used to fighting. You know, of course we're used to that, and aightly it's in us to protect the problem is many of us are fighting the wrong way. I mean, think of how many intellectually gifted men who are incarcerated
because they couldn't rule their emotions in the moment. The next one, of course, is number two, which we tend to just gravitate to, is the provider, you know, providing for our families, making sure they have the care they need, not just the money, because as we know, once you get it, it's not really fulfilling.
It's what you do. What is your presence? Really? Is your presence really present? You know?
Are you really active with your children, your wife and your family and your community. Then I go to the leader, like many of us want to be leaders, all right, but a lot of us don't lead by example. We lead by intimidation. So I unpact that, and then we go to the deeper, which is the lover. I start with the lover characteristic because many men we believe love
is sex only. And I share an intimate moment with my wife when she had we actually, my wife had five miscarriages, and as a result of our last one, they had to make a decision vertically on her stomach and she you know, as a woman, you become self conscious of that scar. And so the one even while we were you know, intimate, the Holy Spirit say I want you to kiss that scar from the top of it to the bottom. And I allowed myself because I'm
emotionally intelligent and I'm a comprehensive man. You know, sex to me isn't a lot of men we think is about the ground and power, like Mma, like, it's about force, but it's not always about that. It's about sensitivity and connecting. And so when I started kissing the scar, my wife started weeping and crying, and in that moment, I was able to allow her to release this self consciousness, well a self conscious feeling about this scar, and I just
share where she's always beautiful. But those kisses confirmed that, you know, it wasn't just words. In that moment, then I moved from the lover characteristic to the nurturer. Many of us as men. We believe that being a nurturer is a feminine attribute first and foremost, where you're supposed to be human, Masculine and feminine are just adjectives, all right. Being masculine means you exude strength, boldness, and aggression, which
we have to have. And so if I'm a nurturer, does that mean I'm feminine?
No?
The goal for us as humans is to be human, to exercise humanity. Many of the greatest cultures are nurturers. Cattle herders farm are nurturers. Any teacher mentor you're a nurturer. You have the nurture to develop anything. And then from the nurture I go to the gentleman. When I discovered I unpacked chivalry. We have been misled to believe that that's a system to pander to women.
It's not.
It was actually a code of honor for medieval knights warriors. And so how do we relininguish that? We relinquish that? Then I go to unpack the alpha male myth like there is no battle between two wolves to see who will lead the wolf pack first and foremost. That study was done on wolves in captivity. What they come to realize is that the leaders, or the alphas in this pack.
Were the male and female wolf.
So in essence, in a human sense, the alphas are the husband and wife leading a family. So I tell my brothers, look, if you really want to be an alpha, get married, lead your family, build the community, and that's what it's about. So from the gentlemen, I go to the friend. Many of us we say we're friends, but we don't understand really what that means. Like you say, I'll be somemone.
She sacrifices her life for you guys. You know her time.
And I give an example of the Winnie the Pool series. You know where you'll see e War clearly depressed or always in the bad word or in the funk sad. Did his friends say you toxic, I'm gonna put up a boundary here, you're ruining my energy. No, they always accepted him for who he was because they knew he was their friend. And that's what we need now in times like this, is a friend who will endure all adversity and challenge. So from those characteristics I go to
the devotion. The first is the husband. What does it look like to sacrificially love your wife and honor her the way that you want to be honored. And that's where I really take time to help men unpack their emotions and how we allow the way we were raised to prevent us from truly living from our hearts and giving it our all to our wives. You know, we stay guarded and often say, brothers, there is no freedom
in the facade. And as a man been married twenty six years, because of the way I grew up, I still have to fight to hold my wife's hand in public or to be romantic because it was like I'm dropping my guard and so that's something I'm still working to improve on. And the last two, of course, is the father. You know, I can't tell you how many times as a father I passed down the harshness of my dad onto my own daughter.
And as a result of that.
You know, we had to go through a lot of therapy, prayer, and a lot of i'm sorries for me to say, hey, lex, I apologize for passing on to you what I got from my dad, and I make it better. And so the father is helping men learn how to parent, not from what we didn't get from my father, but give our children what we long for And the last one I closed with the son characteristic, because that's the one
that made me into a comprehensive man. I tell men all the time, if you want to become comprehensive, run to the areas in your life, life that make you feel what they would say is are unmasculine emotions. This world, this society's and dire need of a man's nurturing love are patience. What does long suffering look like from a man? So when I had to care for my mother, she
needed more than a protect and provider. She needed someone who would nurture her, who would file her nails when the caregiver couldn't paint her nails, wash her hair, wash her And I couldn't do that the way I was. And so I end with that one because it makes it puts men in positions where we have to be transparent. How many of us have you know family members that aging, parents, or children in the community that bring out emotions that make you feel weak or sad? Those are those are
not times we run from as men. That's when you but they would say, man up, that's when you use the masculine attributes. Run towards that move past your fears of being transparent or perceive as week because you may shed a tear, or you may share empathy and be the man you need to be in that moment for those in need.
Very intentional, like a very intentional person About what you wrote, I imagine that a lot of this was written from your personal experience, absolutely right, okay? And would you feel like the husband part did that? Did all of that transpire within like the twenty six years or were you ever married.
Before or that's a good question.
I wasn't married before, but I mean, you know, twenty and fifteen. I think we got married in nineteen ninety eight. So in twenty fifteen, my wife and I were considering separation. Because I was only a masculine male. I could only express my emotions through hitting the table, hitting refrigerator, raising my voice, lacking the control needed to really communicate with her. And so that's when I realized that I needed some help. That I was holding on to a lot of trial.
I'm unresolved, anger for my father, wound, the death of my both of my brothers, my best friend. I could go down the line, and I got tired of allowing that trauma to time travel and ruin my present blessings.
And so the husband chapter basically it shares.
How I evolved, but even who I am now that it's constantly a fight.
Were married, You know what I mean. You gotta make sure your heart is there.
I keep a picture of my wife and my phone when she was young, during a time when she was very vulnerable, when she didn't feel things were stable in her own life, and that keeps my heart tender towards her in the moments when we may not get along. And so I also share an analogy of the crayons for men so we can be practical, have a practical understanding of how we're so limited in who we are
as men we've allowed society to find us. So I use a sixty four box of crayons as the amount of emotions women have access to will actually choose to express, because we both.
Have access to both of them.
But we as men, like ourselves in the eight box of crayons, and we probably only express four. Then we get frustrated when we're communicating with our women, like why don't you understand me? Well, my brother, she's expressing violet, all you got is purple. She's expressing lime. Now you got to grab a green and a yellow to try to meet the moment. And so I'm encouraging man like, Look, I'm not telling you to relinquish your masculine attributes because
then now you'll be deficient in that area. You got to be the lion and the lamb. And so what I'm telling men is to be human, express what you feel. All of us as men want to be more available, want to be more transparent, want to be more emotionally open. But we fear being admonished or impassively dismissed by those that we love. So then we go into suffering in silence,
and then that leads to emotional incarceration. Then that leads to suicidal ideations, and then our lives don't even know what we were dealing with until they plan.
In our funerals. And so that's why I poured my heart.
Into this book, because I mean, just recently, brother, my best close friend called me and said, you know, for the first time he looked at his gun and thought about it. And so this is what a lot of men are going through.
But when you meet him.
He's smiling, he's jovial, he's happy, and so what's the saying, don't miss the forest for the trees. I'm telling people, not just our wives, but the brothers who have friends, don't miss the struggle for the smile. Just because the brother says I'm good, I'm all right, doesn't mean that he's good and we should check on each other.
I do have two questions that something you said. One was you talked about your relationship with your daughter and you said not sure the term of you was. I guess you had to apologize or change because what you learned from your father, you were teaching your daughter and you realize it was wrong.
What was that my father, I had no idea at the time that he had a lot of un resolved anger from the way he was raised in the South, had to deal with a lot of racism, and he carried that back to Detroit. And I mean I remember one time brother he asked me. He ran a barber shop. He asked me just simply to cut the arrow on. I accidentally cut the heat on. I think got may been ten years old. He cursed me out in front of everybody in the barbershop. That right there shattered my
confidence as a man. It demeaned me and it didn't stop there. He loved me, but he thought giving me gifts would suffice, and it didn't. I needed him to be active in my life, but he couldn't because of all the pain that he'd been through. And so what it's called intergenerational trauma when you passed down what you've received. So before I knew it, this anger that he even had taught my mother. He said he he told my mother one day they had gotten divorced, and she accidentally
opened one of his letters. What mailed it, came to the house.
And here it is.
I'm going to middle school and my mother shows me her gun and her purse, and she says, your father just called and said he's gonna do something to me because I opened this letter. So here this is a young boy trying to focus in class. I got to think about my mother's life. But that's how much anger my father had. And brother, you know, I hope my transparency free some brothers listening or watching. It's like, you know, you don't want to create a legacy of wounds.
You want to fight and do.
Whatever you can to get healed because if not, now you're going to see that same behavior and your children, then.
You're mad at them, and all they did was become who you were.
That's why I think apologizing to your kids is so important, because that's something that you know, I feel like I never got from from my father. And I always say my father raised me out of fear and not love. And I think that's what.
We got to avoid doing, raising our kids out of fear.
I mean, we gotta we gotta raise our kids out of love and not not fear, the fear of that they might end up, you know, falling into the street or end up if we were in the street, and the same thing that we were doing, like, we got to relinquish that.
That's true. I call it fear based parenting. You know.
My mother was that way, which is understandably. I understand why she was because she just lost a son, you know, and then mother brother from my father, he was murdered, so she she was terrified that I would die the same way. And because of that fear, she had checked out, you know, meaning the affirmation that you typically get from your mother, the nurturing. I didn't get that my mother loved me. Like everyone who knew my mother knew she
loved me. But I realized in therapy one session when the therapist asked me who we get the band aid when you.
Got hurt, and I said I will. My mother would just tell me where it was.
And in that moment, I realized, Man, this is why I'm misusing women, because I never understood the importance of having my mother, the understanding of what nurturing is, the value with the affirmation. And I unpacked the mother wound as well in that book because many of us, what we're seeking is the love for my mothers and women, and they'll never be able to match what we didn't need and it's unfair to them. And so I had to unpack all of that brother because I didn't want
to transfer that onto my children. And so I've allowed myself to be more tender in that area. My son by far has the best father because I've become the.
Embodiment of what I teach.
And so to your point, year, it's absolutely important for us as parents to not be fear based, especially my son's. But he's driving, Now, why do I have to teach him how to get pulled over by the police?
Why am I focused on that? What is that teaching him?
Is that really making it better or is it making it worse when he gets pulled over? But those are the things you know, we have to teach in our community. But at the end of the day, making sure you balance that with some positive re enforcement and to teach them that how to live in a moment, because when we teach our children, we got to understand we're also teaching them how to miss the moment, because they're programming themselves like, Okay, if this happened, this probably gonna happen.
Because that happened to dad, that happened to mom, It's probably gonna happen to me. And so in that moment, if they're not open to be able to meet the moment to do what's necessary, they may fail in that moment.
I know you're, oh, what the last question?
You talk about turning it off right. And this is important because I say it with Jess, I say it with myself, and I say it with a lot of other brothers talk about the importance of turning it off right. I think we come from a place where we had to get it right. And if you listen to just story, just tell your times where.
The lights were off.
And so I know for herself it's hard to turn things down now because you never want to go back to that place. I feel the same way, and a lot of my friends around me feel the same way. It's like we can't stop because you never know when it's over. So talk about the important of that, because you say, you know, beginning of the year, you had to turn it off, and for some it's difficult to
turn it off. I mean, I've seen just recently in the hospital still doing stories because it's like it's hard to turn the shit off.
That's real, brother. For me, you know, I remember the concept of balance life.
We hit that a lot, you know. For me, Envy, I live an imbalanced life. So the things that hold the greatest importance must always tip the scale. So we live a balance life. Nothing truly claims priority. So for me it's my it's of course the most high, my family, my calling, my health. See, when it's leveled, everything gets the same attention. So I tell people, make sure that scale always tips in favor of what matters the most.
When I started living that way, and stop living from what I do, stop living from fear again not having I understand that, brother, I stop worrying about those things and realizing I can only do so much man, And then what's most important is to ask yourself, why am I doing this?
You know, so many of.
Us, especially in the air of social media and everything is broadcast and content creation. It's like our lives are becoming that instead of you know, really being authentic, and it's like, no, I'm pregnant.
I don't have time to do this and just.
Let people know that. But when we allow society to say, hey, Envy, I need you to do this. You the man, You got to do this and promote this. Can you go here?
Man? Your life feels like it's not.
Worth living, you know, and often tell man, you're not tired of living, You're tired of not living. And the same thing with our women. So many of our sisters have to be so strong that they can't even be human either. They can't cry, They gotta work, Am I right? And so as even for them, I'm like, man, I hope we never lose a woman's empathy and love. This world is over when she has to become stoic and hide behind the facade.
We could forget about it.
And so, you know, my freedom started when I started prioritizing what mattered the most. Everything else, I let it you know, in where it may. But my identity is first and the most high in Christ. After that man, my information come from my home.
Man. And so if I could, if I could shut down now, I'm cool. I was.
I was sad when COVID was over because that meant I had to go back to the norm. I couldn't be with my family to day. You see what I'm saying, And so I just tell people to live from that. Make sure that don't live a balance life. Make sure the skill always tips in favor what you love and matters the most.
That I had a question.
I have one more question, because you seem to like you've done the self work, like to be all of these to play all of these roles, the husband, the son, the father, But you're you know, you're still not perfect and you still can fall short that as well. What happens when, like you know, if you're mad as a dad one day and you react the wrong way, is it ever a point where the husband has to talk to the husband, you are haves to speak to the father, or you have to relate to your kids on a
sun level because you're somebody's son. Do you ever merge the roles? So you know what I'm saying, like pull from different places.
Absolutely, you can't always operate in Yeah, I agree with you, you know, absolutely, I'm more between all of them. Again, I remember the mental health mental health, mental health expo, when the brother asked me, how do you define a man? I say, you can't, and so I have to be anything and everything at any given moment. And so to your point, Charlemagne, you know, I always reconcile. All I tell brothers, we can always make mistakes. Mistakes are great teachers.
The only worst mistake is the one we don't learn from. And so I always apologize immediately. I try to reconcile and make sure that you know, uh, the day doesn't end with me and my children being in eyes, or even me and my wife, because it's not that deep, you know. And so yeah, even with my son, you know, when he doesn't want to talk. He's a teenager, and I'm concerned. I don't want to invade his space because he has his own life, but I want to let
him know that I'm here for him. So some days I just walk to his room door and I see him laying there. Maybe on his phone, and I say, son, do you mind if I just lay down in the
room and read ask for his permission. He typically always says sure, Dad, and I lay down, And that opens the door to a conversation and lets him know that he's very important to me, not what I do, not who I am in society, but who I am in that home, and I prioritize that, and being the son in that moment to him is giving him what I wanted as a son. If my father would have gave me that attention, that affirmation, probably would be even further
in life than I am now. And so I make sure I'm there for him in all aspects that I can.
Two quick questions, I know you got to go. You removed the word vulnerable from the book completely?
Yes, what what words can we use? In number one? Why did you do that?
What words can we use this instead of vulnerable?
When I discovered that when I read the dictionary, the word itself means susceptible to harm, danger, or even death. And so when you think about being in a vulnerable situation, or you hear it on the news, vulnerable citizens were defenseless against a gunman, No good man ever wants to be vulnerable. I don't want my wife, my children, and
anyone I love in a vulnerable position. So we're trying to tell men is to be emotionally open, to be transparent with how you feel, and that way is it's a door way to you becoming more human, becoming more of a verbal process or emotionally emotionally intelligent. And that's why I took the word out. That's why it's so hard for us as brothers to say it, because it goes against the way where were created as men.
We don't want anyone that we love to be in a vulnerable position.
And however, what is hindering us as men is that we're not emotionally open with those who love us. And so as a result of that, the suffering in silence peace is really taking us down. And so I just encourage by being the example of being transparent and emotionally open and showing my men that just because you can express how you feel doesn't mean you'll be taking advantage
of And if someone misuses your emotions, be thankful. Now you know who's in front of you and you got a decision to make you know.
My last question, I love when you talk about, you know, your relationship with your wife. And I saw a video where you said, happy wife, happy life. Isn't about love?
What is it about?
Well, you know, it never was a term of endearment. We know that as men. It was a way, you know what was it saying? You know, give her what she want, keep her mouth shut so you can have peace, all right? And now women are realizing this is not a happy life for neither of us, and so call it a misleading mantra. Brother and as an another one too, if you're out with your wife, this happened to me a few times. I'm addressed as the lesser half and
she's the better half. So I had no idea until I was meeting with a psychologists, well no a psychotherapist, of what that does to a man's mind, that you are the lesser half, and the resentment that silently builds within your heart. And so my wife and I vowed not to use that mantra. Ever, so when Sta Nicole and I say happy houses, happy spouses, and it takes for both of us to meet the moment in marriage together,
every moment, we're always willing to cross the line. If she's not doing well, mentally, emotionally, I have to cross the line if I'm falling short like you were saying, just she crosses the line. And that's why our marriage is. We call it a beautiful struggle. We're pushing through. We won't give up on each other. And the biggest game changer was when we both decided that we know we're
not intentionally hurting each other. There has to be just some miscommunication and let's be patient and work through it. And we're going on twenty seven years this year and thirty three years together.
Wow. Yeah, thank you, brother. Well, let you have it.
Pick up the new book out now.
Jason Cat Daddy Wilson Man the moment demand. Okay, Daddy, it's the Breakfast Club.
Good morning wake that ans up in the morning. The Breakfast Club