INTERVIEW: Daniel Caesar Talks 'Son of Spergy,' YesJulz, Trump, Resenting Societal Systems, Marriage + More

Every day waiting.

Breakfast club finish, y'all done morning.

Everybody is d j en Vy just hilarious.

Charlamagne the guy. We are the breakfast club Longla Roses here as well. We got a special guest in the building. Indeed, ladies and gentlemen, Daniel Season welcome.

Thank you.

How you feel?

Nobody yourself gets it? I'm great, I'm great. I I just got out of four eight hours of uh stomach not stomach flu. What's the other one?

Bad?

Bad sandwich? I feel I feel renewed. I feel like a new person. Oh yeah, you show.

It wasn't the stomach, but you know, the stomach virus was going around.

I've been hearing about that, but it was like a day a day.

That's the same thing.

What a talented R and B singer you are?

You are absolutely.

I was listening to the Sun of Spurgey album for first I explained the title son a spur Spurgy is how he pronounce it, spurgy.

Okay, yeah, that's my dad's. My dad's nickname is from Jamaica. He likes to anytime he's talking, he'll he'll go into a sermon at any moment. As a famous preacher called Charles Spurgeon, so they called him Spurgi when he was young.

I want to I want to go back a little bit if y'all don't mind for people that don't know who Daniel sees there is. Uh, you're from Canada, and tell tell everybody how you got.

Into the music industry and and.

Your background, your your father you said, is Jamaican, and break it down a little bit for people that don't know.

Yeah, my my my dad was a singer back in Montego Bay. When he was singing. No well, I mean he always sang in the church since she was little. My grandmother heard that he could sing from school and she's like, if you're not singing church, on beat your ass. So uh, but he was like doing dinner music and

Jes Jesus Christ.

No, I'm serious, though, I saw I.

Really feel like that. You feel like that at the time you don't want to die?

No, I don't. I don't know. I didn't mean that literally, I would rather die. I don't want to die. I'm gonna do what I want. It's yeah, doing what I love. I don't just want to die for no. No, if you're gonna make me do something I don't want to do, I'll give you liberty or give me death. You know what I mean that revolution though not like you know, I mean sometimes being alive is a revolutionary act. That is, like,

Yeah, So is it.

True that your dad kicked you out the house and that's when you really took it serious.

No, my dad did not kick me out of the house. When my dad did, which I respect as time passed, of course, he was like, you're not just gonna sit around here and and sing songs and not go to university.

And he had a heavy Jamaican accent, I'm sure, so.

It was only when he's angry. He actually has a great telephone voice forgetting and stuff like that. Yeah, He's like, you're not just gonna sit around here in my house and like not participate in this world that's going on outside the way that we think you should. So I was like, oh, okay, then I'll you know, he's very strong willed. I'm also very strong willed, so I was like, okay,

But you would to be homeless.

I don't want to be homeless. I just didn't want to do anything that I didn't want to do.

Where you did you leave the house and go be homeless though?

Yeah, it was the streets. I was like CouchSurfing. You have friends and then there's always a home to It's just like I was very strong willed, so it's like there's always a home to go back to, but I have to go back under my father's rules, my father's you know what I mean. I respect it respecfully.

You have a homeless aesthetic.

But I mean it's probably a thing going on.

No, it's definitely not your hair. I love it hair.

No, yeah, no, I did it on purpose.

You are not strong willed. You are stubborn. That's what it was.

You're stubborn as hell because you Joe, how old were you when you when your dad gave you that ultimatum?

Uh?

Seventeen, Okay, that's around the age where you like think you.

I mean, from my perspective, it turns out I didn't know, you know what I mean.

Because it was wrong.

Yeah, okay, gotcha, And I believe and I also believe like they raised, they didn't raise a dummy, right, So it's kind of like I think everybody deep down knows what they should be doing, and then the universe is going to keep throwing things at you to suggest that you shouldn't be doing that to scare you. And like being homeless or being poor is very scary.

Did you sing for like change?

No? No, it was amazing. I don't want to throw it over dramatized. I had. I was a dishwasher.

I think he went on on his own and figured it out, figured it out.

But I want to hear about the signs that told you you should be singing. I know the signs that you know told you the things you shouldn't have been doing, But what were the signs that showed you you should be singing?

My I remember, and I went to like this boarding school, like Christian Academy, and so on Friday nights it was seven day Adventists. So on Friday nights we would have vespers, kind of like Shabbat sort of situation. And I remember it was around that time when I was like all right, I used to play sports and I was like, all right, I'm not that great at sports. So I started singing and playing the piano and they had me perform at Vespers and I sang this song and I'd not even joke.

Did your pops when did your pops come back and be like you made the right decision? Or has that not happened yet?

It has? And I mean probably, like I've played some pretty big shows, you know, they were at Madison Square Garden. That was one of them. Probably when we did in Toronto Budweiser Stadium or not stadium's out of stadium. It's a amphitheater. But it was just all those people singing the songs in here there he was like, Okay, I got.

It now, and you honored him.

You honored him, you know, by naming your albums on the spurge his face on the cover.

How does he feel about that?

You know what? He's so, he's just such an interesting guy. He's so cool. But what he did. I put out a letter talking about my experience with him before that came out, and that was the thing that really got him emotionally. But he's you know what I mean, He's not like, yeah, your dad, Yeah you should spell time you put me on.

You know, You've been very open about like your struggles with identity and faith and self worth. I wonder, at this point in your life, who is Daniel Cesar still unlearning to be?

Mm hmm. I've been thinking that a lot lately. I internalize everything, so that's kind of how I moved to the world. I kind of. I think it's like, because my dad is such a he's an immovable force. So if I want something and I want to change his mind, you just can't. So You're like, when people exhibit behaviors around me and the world, I just assume that that's

You know.

And then you're just like and sometimes and then you you think that makes you a good person by not trying to control other people, and then the way it becomes too much and then you you you crash out, and then you're like, damn, I wonder how many times I've hurt people that I care about because I was living my life in this way that I thought was right,

Wonder why you internalize I guess other people's bullshit because you know, I love the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, and one of his agreements is don't take anything personally because usually when somebody does some bullshit and you would have nothing to do with you and exactly what you just said, something that's going on with them.

One hundred percent. But then sometimes it's also like pattern recognition, you know.

Like why do you keep attracting these type of people?

Yeah, it's like what about me? Makes it feel like because I because it's it's almost naivete where it's like, oh, if I go around through the world and I treat people with respect, then people will respect me. Right? Is not how it works? And then you're like, oh no, sometimes you have to make people scared of you, and it's it's a Machiavellian like fear is stronger than love.

You know, is there a part of it too that like maybe is there like a longing for something from those people? Because like you mentioned patterns, and are those patterns hurting you when you continue to see them happening because you're trying to figure out why you're not worthy of that changing.

Yeah, I think it was very good.

I think because you mentioned your relationship with your dad a lot. Yeah, and in your letter you talk about how he would warn you through he would talk to you through stories and warn you about how the world was, and he's like very stern and very strong. Somewhere in there it feels like, you know, there was a longing for something that you wanted from him, that he tried to give you, but it wasn't the way you did it.

Yeah, which is the oldest story, you know what I mean. And it's just but this, this record one hundred percent true, and this record is kind of just like I know that man very well, and in all things, he tries very hard, you know what I mean. He's a very principal man. He's an honest man. But just some things, okay, okay,

I'm thirty thirty, Ok, you got a different type of diicted us.

Oh well that's but that's what I'm saying. Yeah, So it's like your your your faith with that man now now. But but there was a time you're you're supposed to provide. You're supposed to go out and deal with all the ship in the world that you're protecting your family from your girls. You're supposed to go out provide, protect you with all this ship, protect and someone gets to tell you what you can and can't do with your dick as well, you know what I mean.

Like, I don't think it's about somebody telling you what you can and can't do when you, uh, you know, decide to make vows with a woman and you tell God, this is the woman that I want to spend the rest of my life with and be faithful.

You made that commitment.

Exactly, which is why. And I have a woman in my life that I that I love and I care about very much. But if she feels irresponded, No, she's not. She's not. But it feels very irresponsible of me to make that promise because yeah, I don't think so. I'm like, am I gonna be ready when I'm fifty? Where?

Am I?

You know what I mean?

But that's the way we should be, and most most people our age wish we would have been that honest long time ago.

That's a level of emotional intelligence a lot of us didn't have.

Yeah, But I just I just think, I just think, like so much in the society in which we live is counterintuitive. I'm like, what were we doing before imperialless, before colonialization, when we were you know, wherever we were on the on the globe, living unbothered by anybody trying

Is this the way we use like isolation?

It's so isolated. You know, you're a you're in a home in the suburbs and you have a car and you have a backyard and all this ship is happening in everybody's homes and we're supposed to go out and like not talk to each other. Look how kids behave they're my mom takes pills to go this. They're at the at the park talking about my mom does this. They want to connect, they want to go out and whatever, and we're we train them from young No, your neighbor's

As you talked about intellectualizing spirit, and I think that's what you're doing right now. You're you're intellectualizing your spirit when you should just feel.

If what you feel is true to you, then let that be cool.

If you don't feel like you're ready to settle down with one woman at thirty.

It's okay, and be honest with that woman. There's nothing wrong with that.

Think is more than that though for you. I think it's the whole.

It's deep there, it gets.

It was honestly, it was. It was great. It was a Caribbean household, you know what I mean. But it was like, do you know what the thing was? Because I have the same experience as so many other people that look like me. I was the one Caribbean household on us. I grew up on this this this private high school academy. My parents, my dad worked there. Right, this was a white school, white town, white white, white, white, white, white white. And so I'm the old Caribbean family on

And old was your dad was your household growing up tight holeshole was just your mom and your dad.

And you've seen that union that you're looking.

For hundred per but I also see what is sacrificed in oneself to sustain that.

So you have conversations with your father though, like about like about that. Have you had conversations Did he tell you that he was paid with his wife?

I mean I was happy, yeah, but it's it's kind of like there are just some things sometimes I look at like you like like Mary couples and stuff like that, if it almost feels like a like a big conspiracy where it's just like we're married, so of course we're

I get what you're saying. I mean, marriage is all work, like nobody said it was.

I think when you have and you have conversations with married couples like, yeah, it's hard, it's tough, you know.

What I mean.

You're gonna have your good days.

But you have to want to do it.

You gotta want to do it.

Yeah, And for me, you, I have dedicated my life to making art, and sometimes it feels as though it's like they're kind.

Of yeah, you're very young.

But you know what, somebody said this to me yesterday, right they were doing my kids here and she said, you know, I'm.

Surprised to see you like this with your kids.

And I'm like, well, what does that mean? She was like, I do things here all the time, and usually the breadwinners make money. When they come home, they go in their little cocoon and they don't want to their kids. It was like, but you help your kids with homerate, you pick them up, you take them to dance, you this, that and the other. Because I have a responsibility to my kids.

I love them.

It doesn't feel like a job. It doesn't feel like I'm coming home and oh the fuck I gotta do this again. No, that's why I had those kids. That's why I love those kids. There are some people that feel differently and say, you know what, I'm more into my art. I need to create. You take care of the kids. But those are the kids that are usually you know, don't have a father, need a father figure, have those type of traumas, and have those type of problems.

Well, let me know if you need another hairdstyllars of them kidscause she wasn't supposed to say that to you. I'm surprised that you ain't here like that too.

You know when you bring Menican kids who are like a black you know.

Before we get off this topic, right, because this whole conversation reminds me of a sinse of a father the song that you in your project with. In that project, you say dad would forgetful. He promised a lot. I think thankfully he never got called. Then you talk about forgetting someone's birthday and someone saying I'm sorry, dear, and you're struggling between the love and honor that your your actual father has and the love and honor that the father above is.

Like you know what I mean?

What?

So was your dad not like how Envy is describing he was? Is that were some of this like.

Like that that's what made me like that exactly.

And my dad's dad was an orphan from like from the slums of Jamaica. The man suffered I could. I can't around that time, especially with the British over there fucking doing whatever the British do. The the level of abuse that he sustained, I'm sure is horrible, you know, And so sometimes I'm just like, no, my out there. I mean, he probably forgot my birthday. My mom wouldn't forget my birthday. No no, no, no, not like are you only child? No no, no, I got four brothers, three brothers.

I don't like the expectations.

No, I do this all year round, Like why do I have to do it on this specific way?

Maybe not for birthday, but definitely for Christmas.

I feel that way exactly. I don't like the I just don't like that. It's it's there's so many variables and exterior pressures on us all the times, and I get I'm clearly like I get a little neurotic and like I'll like follow a train of thought like very very deep, and but you know what I'm saying, And it's just kind of like, you.

Know, like who are we, you.

Know, especially because all the systems that we exist in, like we are the least valuable people in those systems, you know what I mean. So it's like I resent all these systems, all these structures, and so me doing whatever the I want and saying things and and I can be very obnoxious. I can be very irritating and annoying sometimes, but it's just like, like how this if you start sometimes just being whoever you are is the is the act of is the rebellion or is the

I wouldn't even label you we exactly well I have, I mean who you are, and I appreciate that you He just healed something in me, right, he is definitely think people who call people weird they don't really know themselves.

I agree.

At least I've never gonna use that word to you. Ever, I'm very descriptive.

I'm very specific. Okay, what part of Daniel ses you do? Fans still misunderstand the most?

And is that your fault?

Yeah, it is my fault, and definitely my my cynicism into humor, you know, or just by yeah, I was starting with my cynicism and my sense of humor. Where it's like like something that happened a couple of months ago, you know, when when Trump and the Ice things first started happening. You know, a couple of weeks before.

You have some concern because Jamaica by Beatos Canada. You just weren't sure.

Shut up, man, I got a great visa, man, I think, But I mean he's also who nobody's safe, right? But but no, do you remember when when Trump's Instagram first started to really get crazy and it was a decade at least for me, when I saw this like AI image with the trains, with the planes and the trains and no with the the let's start deportations now or something like that, and me I saw that and I was like, whoa, this is really crazy. What are we living in? Like what is this? And it was It's

Yeah, you don't have to like it, Like you can mentally look at something you know and see all the nuance of it, right, know that it's some bullshit, but also maybe kind of find it funny.

But you don't have to like it, Like you said you don't like systems.

So who said no? When I say, I mean press the like button?

But who said you got to do that? You're only doing that because it's there.

Yeah, so you wanted to.

Know that you like it or like do you just no.

No, no, no, no no, I just I almost like use social media sometimes like a boom or like I am. One of the New Year's things that I'm doing is I'm getting a life phone because I am like with my phone it's too much. If I see it and I think it's funny, I press like and I keep scrolling.

Because it's not even.

Yeah well yeah no, I was preyed upon by the It's I'm dopamine. I am an addict. That is in my like I am. I have that type of personality. I'm an addict. So if you get if you make me feel good, then then you're in there. You know what I mean. And it's that's that's another thing in you know, growing up becoming a man, where it's just like, oh my god, they're be set by evil on all sides.

Want to I want to talk about have a by me before.

I just I wanted to be clear that my that my dad is like he's a He loved us very much, and he was very kind and very gentle. And when I hear stories about his upbringing, he went from here to here. That's all I just I'm just very sensitive and so whatever it was, you know, but.

He agreed as a man, not as your dad exactly.

You know. The one more quick thing cleared us up. Do you support Trump? No?

I think he's hilarious, and I think that America. I think Trump is the president that he I think Trump was inevitable and I think what he's what ice is going on? Yeah, this is this is how the country started. It's a criminal ass, you know what I mean. It was eventually going to get here, and now it's like.

Trump is the Frankenstein Monster of white.

Supremacist exactly exactly. And now it's like now there's I used to shooting white ladies. Now everyone's scared. You know what I mean. This was always eventually these systems that it's like, oh no, they're over in Africa. Fu them, you know they're over in over there. Fuck them now, they're now they're shooting suburban white ladies. You know what I mean?

You should unlike the post.

But and you know what, and here comes the main flaw in my character. Don't tell me what, don't tell what to do, and don't try and don't try it right, and I will the universe God will, I will, I will suffer. And I have.

Get a phone like a phone where it's.

A light phone. No, it's like no apps. I just need to get off. Yeah, it's like you can get music and you can get maps.

You know what you should do?

Don't give me a hundred thousand dollars, don't.

You should not do.

Don't give me you can program that into my brain while giving me dopamine, then that would work.

Don't give me a million dollars.

Do you needs dope?

Mother?

Don't give me.

So okay, So, because you said you don't like to be told what not to do, right, but you're getting this phone that doesn't have these apps because you're getting the backlash to the things that you're doing exactly.

So it's like I am putting I have to put up the parameters for myself. I am gonna just whatever. It's the same with dealing with money. I have to set up things with my business manager because I don't. I can't.

You know yourself that I.

Got to put myself in my own cage. Somebody else will put me in a case. Good.

The yes Jewels moment kind of get you here too, Yeah, yes Jewels moment.

Oh it's iconic.

Okay, I didn't know you were iconic, but so, yes Jewels was People were coming for her because she had posted that T shirt that or it came back up the niggas lie a Lot T shirt and then she.

She wore a T shirt that said niggas lie.

She had tweets she had posted the shirt, and people were coming for her, just talking about the whole cultural appropriation thing like they always do with her and oh white, Yeah she's white, and you got online in a drunk rint and you basically said people should leave her alone. She should be able to say what she wants to say. Because we're mean to people, but we act like we don't understand why people have a reaction. I can read your words, veriato. But that was me summarizing it.

No one, and I mean, this is great. It was it was I internalize everything, and that's that's the whole thing. Like I was like, I internalize everything. You guys should internalize everything, and then you'll get all this and all this is nothing.

I disagree. I don't like, yeah you don't.

No no no no no no no no no, but I agree. But that that was where that was coming from. That's what that was. And on and for years after, you know what I mean, it's like, these things aren't gonna boo me out of nothing. No, this is I believe that, and I still believe it. And as time is passed, I'm like, oh they were, No, they were

Disagree with that.

I say that when it comes to legislation, like we talk about systems, like somebody had to create the system, so clearly somebody knew what was doing. If you put you, if you was label somebody only three quarters of a human being, Yeah, that's an intentional choice.

Well okay, yes, and that's your in the spirit of self awareness, my I don't even subscribe to or participate in politics because I'm like, I don't have the the the bandwidth, the mental bandwidth, like dealing with what's the word you just used, legislation, legislation, all that stuff. I'm like, I just kind of assume whatever does come of of all that doesn't involve me, you know what I mean, Like I'm not.

It involves as Yeah, but I love with Nina turns that you don't.

You may not do politics, but politics is eventually gonna do you. Yeah.

No, I get, I get what you're saying, but I just mean, like I then that's my cynicism. I don't believe that any level of participation, that like any level that I participate in politics, well that actually the country is founded on racism. I just don't think that playing

To be able to you know, you know, elections do have consequences, and I mean when you see you know, people's civil liberties being rolled back the way that they are now, then.

You have to disagree with yourself.

Yeah No, but I just think I personally assumed that whoever, if we put Kamala, Kamala, whoever we put in there, eventually this is gonna happen. That's my personal But that's cynicism. And maybe if we vote right, one day, America, black people will run America and it will be our country. I don't, I mean, I don't know. It just doesn't feel. It just doesn't.

What I was asking. I was gonna ask, was that your is that your homie or stand up?

That was also I mean, that was like a trauma response. It was just like I saw when I look at Yes Jules, I see an orphan girl that that that wants to be black, you know what I mean. And I'm like, damn, that's so mean, bro.

She doesn't like she could come to your at that time. Now.

But I don't know nothing about it, I guess.

I mean, I was just like I felt bad for her, especially being a black kid that grew up surrounded by white people. I'm like, what the way she grew up? What is she supposed to do? She's trying to embody what she understands.

Is so different than hers.

And I think, yes, Jeweles, I think yes, Jewels is a like, it's not even about her. The conversation that people try to have about her is a bigger conversation about what we allow culturally and what we should protect and all those things. So I think that's where people's frustration comes in when you jump out the window for her and it's not just about her, you know what I mean. But said, he's trying to explain that this is he understands it now because.

Of his Yeah, no, no, no, I don't, and I wouldn't.

It was a.

It was meant to happen. It was meant And I almost don't regret it because I don't think I would have come to this understanding of what's going on in myself and in the world around me if I hadn't done that, you know, because I was just like internalizing and I didn't realize. I was like, oh my god, all this choosing to internalize. They called me a coup and I was like, I was like, there's no way because I think this, this and this and this m hm. And then I'm like, oh my god, have I been

So basically, you just.

Saw a girl that wanted to be black, that just you know, wore shirt that it didn't really mean anything to you.

It was just like, yo, this is just another girl orphan shown she want to be black.

It's naive because I was moving to the world really believing like, oh maybe we could all come together and understand each other and be like spending this much time in America, I'm like, oh no. But if you think all all all or no all virality. All virality are all like codes of codes of moving through the world, It's like, oh my god. If you follow it to any thought process at the very end, it's like, all right, who who are we killing? That's actually what it is.

Damn, Dan, What did you ultimately learn from this situation? So that's what I'm getting. I'm getting that you learned something from that, Sue.

I did, and the niggas don't lie, like, Yeah, I learned. I learned. It's it's a ship show out here and all that I can How do I say this? I can only control me and the world around me is is is of my own creation, you know. And you go through things and you experience them, and if you don't want it to happen again, you look at what went wrong and you try and adjust.

Did the backlash your faith make you more guarded as an artist? Are more honest?

More guarded? And now more honest? Because it's all like it forever changed the trajectory of my whole life.

You know, really, what do you mean?

Yeah? For sure? Because it was just I just I thought I was being honest with myself and that I didn't realize how first. I didn't realize how much anger and hatred I had in my own heart.

For who your own people are.

No no, no, no, I mean for the world around me and for myself. It's kind of it's all like hete It's all like I am you you are. Yeah, it's all the same. It's all flowing the separation that you are a different person than me, and you and you have your own life. It's not real. You know, you drop some acid and you're like, oh, we're actually all one. We're all just different leaves on a tree. You know. The separation that we think we feel it is.

You're all just energies moving through time. I swear I heard Jim Carry say something like this. I mean it's like where I literally heard somebody say this. Sorry Jim if you didn't, but I thought he said something like this before one of them Golden globes.

Uh, the spiritual practices of anyone free colonialism?

Do you dos or ayahuasca or anything like that?

Is that you okay?

Oh?

Acid?

Oh you're talking about like that? I mean like on a bado? Okay, all right, you know what I'm saying at.

Okay?

Cool.

That's interesting though, because I feel the exact opposite. I feel like, you know, human connection is the only reason that we exist, no, I.

Based That's why we yearn so much for it. Because when you connect with someone, even when you it's like you're long for connection, Like you see a girl and she's so beautiful, you know, and you go and talk to her m hm, and she doesn't like you, and you're like damn, and that pain that you feel where it's like, what's wrong with me? And then you realize it's beautiful because I really believe in that moment that

No more connection, because then the connection don't always That's what we mess up. Connections don't always have to be romantic. Connections don't always have to be you know, intimate on a sexual level. Connections can be a new friend that you meet. Connection can be somebody that you get in the studio with that's a producer, and y'all connect and y'all create something that's an amazing.

That's what he's talking about.

Run Through is crazy you ever had, You've never like the I am it's dop. I mean, the most powerful connection is the connection that is is eros is a gape, you know what I mean. It's all the different types of love one can experience more than you always rod. That's what I just told you.

Trying to run through.

Yeah, but you don't always have to do that.

Like, Actually, to me, one of the most powerful connections is when you meet a woman, like you know, all of these women in this room, even from Natina and down, are women that I have met.

There's no sexual attraction. Even to people that I consider my homegirls, my sisters. I love them. Sometimes that is the more powerful dopamine hit than.

I feel like you're understand. I'm not saying that I can't have don't have friendship.

You're talking about that first feeling when you fall in love and it's energetic and it's like whatever.

Right, But I think because they've.

Been married for a lot of time, right, what I'm what I think you're missing from what they're saying is that even with your partner, if you're just talking about wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, there are so many different experiences where that same dopamine feeling comes with that same person, just depending on where

I'm not gonna front learn that a good point envy. I'm sure you know playing with me. There's certain points.

That you get older and you look at your wife sometime you're like, damn, man, I hit the lottery, Like I love.

My wife all the time. Absolutely, I'm doing the same.

Ask a question when you were younger, did you have a lot of girlfriends or were you the the one that didn't that because you went to a white school, they didn't appreciate you like they should have.

Yeah, I didn't. I didn't date until ninth grade.

And that's the reason why he probably feels the way that he did. He never really felt accepted when you was growing up as a kid. He never had the love.

He never had that friendship.

They called you ugly all that stuff.

But that's that's the reason.

But that's the reason he's act like like he is because he never had that love growing up. So now when he's a celebrity, he's a star, he can pick and choose with whatever.

And even then though it gets empty at some point because and have a baby, it'll get me, right.

Of course, it gets but yeah with me in Penthes, yeah, because that's that was funny.

Have a baby with me, like yeah, but not with the.

Other dude, like what woman left you that you was like, don't leave, please, I'll I'll put a baby.

And you don't leave.

Okay, no, no no. So that's like the girl that I wrote my first Frediano was Yeah, that was like a whole that was a whole thing. And but I have a baby is like, it's funny to put it in parentheses. Yeah, because of the experiences that I had. That's my other thing, like with you're really okay, So yeah, you guys, you nailed it. It's in relationships. I can't help but feel like it's about controlling what the other

But at a part in the song when you're talking to her, it sounds like she's like putting her clothes on, she's about to leave. But figure that's like the physical, but in like thinking about it, she's kind of tapping out of the relationship, right, You're almost like begging her to not at some point because you realize that you started all these little fires and it got you to this point and you just want to give her that dream like what she thought or where she thought you

How is that?

Yeah?

Ass toxic? Yeah, said SELFI Yeah, I'm glad. This is very self aware selfish.

That's kind of I mean, that's being an artist. That's the thing being an artist is like that is that you can't be a good artist and not be selfish. It's about I experienced stimuli from the outside world, and I'm not worried about the outside world. I'm worried about how I feel about it, because then I go to the studio and I and I do what I gotta do, and I process it and I go through it.

I'm not worried about Which is the greatest dopa main high ever for you?

Life literal value? You know, what I mean changed.

Was it a woman that made you start acting like that? Or when you started being the one that these women started liking it changed you? Because at one time, I'm sure you didn't feel accepted you maybe it was rejection. How you know it's not just the fame or the money or a celebrity.

I mean, don't you don't know? You don't know, it's only over time.

And is that why you're being selfish? Like I don't know why you liked me because they didn't like me. So I'm just gonna sling dick to everybody have a baby with me?

Yeah, because I because I want an artifact of our love. I want an artifact.

Idea of what read No no, no, yeah, not in the buns in the bun no no no, no no no, no one's pregnant, no no no yeah.

Give them some time to process the question though internalized.

Go ahead, that's so interesting. Artifact that crazy? Yes, yes, you want to.

You're stopping a gift shop at.

They call a baby that? Yeah, that's crazy.

Look at my souvenir. He's six today.

What we'll holler next year Christmas?

You know? Just interesting.

I think once you get through this to take that text back you said somebody that you.

No, I definitely said that, and I've said that a bunch.

They be eating it up. What they be saying it back?

No, it'll be texting it's no, no, no, it's I use I use that term when I'm in debate about the subjects, not when I'm talking m which I guess maybe yes now that yes.

The question is this album more of a confession, our therapy session or our spiritual reckoning?

Mm hmm.

I mean I personally always get to spiritual reckoning through confession. I love the thought of singing it that you can say whatever you want when you're singing it, and you can say a lot of things. I mean, a lot of things have been said here today that are insane to say in conversation with strangers. But and that's that's just something I.

Like to do.

But it's still a conversation, you know.

It's how you feel, and it's connection. I feel like I'm i feel you know, more connection, I feel you know. But yeah, I would say spiritual reckoning. I would say spiritual reckoning, but it's it's I'm still caught up on this artifact. I when I say artifact. I mean like, I don't mean I want to have a kid and then disappear. I don't believe in that. I'm like my dad where it's like like bound by honor, you know,

Hmm.

I just want to co parent.

You said all of that just to say this.

I just want you to know you just want a cold parent.

I give him a copy of your book.

Just has a book coming out called Tell Death Parent Privileged Publishing, Simon and Shooter, and it's all about cold parenting.

So I just okay, So so you co parent, co parent well with my son's father yet so she's married to Yeah, but I'm not married to my son's father.

I'm married just father was divorce or was it just a no? No?

No, that was just a relationship.

We met when we were with nineteen or something like that, and I had we had a track of their love and oh, my master, Ashton, if you were not, but yes, we did have anot of fact.

His name is yes, Ashton, my name is Ashton.

Is it thought your name is Daniel?

No? No, no, no, that was a whole other. My dad was like, if you're not going to send gospel music, you can't use my name. Wow damn.

Okay, So.

Okay, so you've never been divorced.

No, that's my first time being married.

I love it.

It's great.

Okay, I've only been married for like seven eight months though, but yeap, so we're nearly words.

But yeah, I love it. Okay, you're going to read this book. Yes, you can have this.

Advise him to start out co parenting first if he knows what's to do, or do you advise himself?

No, no, no, no no, I would bringing it back down and you were saying you have a kid, go Actually you were just saying, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, no, just.

Like I am just kind of like I'm just very anti divorced, and I'm just like, why why why can't I just im someone what I know? Would I believe that I can promise them or I could promise them

It's like yo, shortcut baby, all right, let's go parent right here right now, because I know I cannot be. I can't participate in the active monogamy with you right now, like because that's not how I feel marriage. It does not serve me. I don't like it, all the things attached to it. I do want a child. I want my own offspring, though, and I would love to co parent with you.

That's what it is.

So you got to find somebody that's like you, that that is okay.

With that to do that with.

And there are women like.

Your money and your shoes as well, and you play around with these women like that.

Confidence at least. But no, no, no, but you who will do that? Here's and here's the thing. Because I've been so honest today, I understand that there's probably it's easy to assume that that I have a deep that I don't understand women are like or how like I'm a sitting duck for getting exploited by a woman that just wants it for my money. I've been, I've been, you know what I mean I know I can pick

And a great baby maker.

No, no, not even not even it's not even like even like she's like not even a sexual thing. It's just like her values. I respect her values. You know, how much time do you have? Okay, I have another well, I mean off off screen. You guys are calling me

Like between visits and no's and black queens exactly. I don't know I agree with that, but I understand what you're saying.

I also, because all people are I'm talking about the systems in which we live, they had to pick. You have to pick all women because all women want to be free and too experience prostitutes. The benefit of being prostitute is you get to you're not beholding to all these different rules that the wives have to beholden to. You could be free. You can move to society as you want, you know what I mean. However, obviously your life is highly in danger. You know all these different you're.

Extreme as prostitute. There's mischief that feels like that the mistress I feels like I don't want to be the wife.

I'm just happy being I know.

But now we're getting into two subgroups. If you if you boil it down, it's like the wife is going to call the mistress of prostitute same thing, you know what I mean pretty much.

Yeah, the girl that excites you that you have a baby with, she's on the courting side for sure, or is she on the prostitute side?

Who knows.

Exactly?

And this is actually actually where I have to Yeah, you stop talking about it.

Because now, Yeah, one of my favorite songs on the album, by.

The way, it's awesome, my favorite. Man.

You have one of the most beautiful voices ever, so talented.

I'm so glad to meet you.

So that actually might be the most honest song on the album.

Probably a waste of your time.

Yeah, because I think that if all of us, I think that's the problem, right, Like all of us act like we know, and none of us truly do.

We just know what we believe in whatever moment in time that we're in.

And if you're really doing this life thing right, you remain open and you allow yourself to change in evall, So you'll probably be saying who knows for the rest of your life.

Who knows is actually always the right answer?

Yeah, Yeah, that is, yeah, very like, yeah, do what that will like? Yeah? Yeah, who knows? So you just whatever you think you're supposed to do is really the only thing that you can afford.

To be doing and think about all the stuff we stress about that we truly don't know, you know what I'm saying, Like all of these meanings of life and where we go after we die, who we pray to, all of these different things, who actually knows?

Nobody really knows.

And yeah, but learning to to live with that is. It's kind of like I've been in this space lately where I'm like, I used to think be thinking so hard and so deeply on things, was like would give me a leg up or an advantage and moving to the world, And I'm like, Oh, I actually think it's it's yeah, thinking is, yeah, you know what I mean, Because it's you can't control after a certain point. If you want to control outcomes, you have to be willing to enact violence on others or to lie, to cheat,

On the song moon, you ask, who's gonna be my Jesus? How does your dad feel when he hears you say things like that.

At this At this point, he's like he just doesn't like cursing. It's very very cribbing like that. Every everything else. He's like, uh, you know what, he's gonna be Okay, He's not a dummy, so he'll like, he'll figure it out. He doesn't agree though. Yeah.

It's my last question. Man, if you could sit with the version of yourself who first dropped the Fruitian Freudiandian Freudian, what warning would you give that young brother and what hope would you offer him?

I would tell him there is nothing to fear, and literally just that, and if you are afraid, you can just go and sit down somewhere until you're not afraid, you know. But making decisions and moving to the world afraid is it's the only way you'll have regrets. I feel making like fight or flight decisions. I think I'd have to think about that more. But off the top of my head, yeah, being afraid, it's like, there's no need to be afraid. You're good at your job. Just be good at your job and do it.

But what do you want to hear that Let's get something off down on right now. What's your favorite record that you would love the masters to hear. I feel like you should play a couple We're already gonna play have a baby with Me. Yeah, that's the single, right. The next single, who Knows?

That was good, definitely who Knows, Who Knows? Who Knows?

And then you got a look at your album to see what's on.

I do because I'm this conversation is very exciting for.

Me, so I love that.

Yeah, that's good, that's the win. I would say, who knows, rain down.

Rain Down. We appreciate you for joining us. Absolutely, it was a great conversation for you.

Absolutely absolutely check you, Vie.

We might hurt you when you come back, but.

Genuine Caesar is the breakfast club. Good morning, every day, breakfast club.

You're clinical, yachdum