Hello, kitties. It's your old pal John Kucir, the voice of the cryptkeeper, and you're listening to the bottom shelf. Oh, crap. Oh, we're almost at the mid month marker. Dallas. Dallas. What? I'm I'm reading assassination classroom. What do you want? We gotta get we gotta we gotta do another episode, man. We don't wanna get down to only doing 1 in the month again. We gotta grab something recent. Recent. Recent. I have a Reese's. I don't have a Reese's.
Gosh. Everything's just amazing in theaters right now. Oh, yeah. So good. What's what's that thing in our cob labs over there? We got this thing that says madam madam madam madam Webb? Madam Webb? Supposed to be in the Spider man universe? I sense a disturbance in the web. Did someone say Spider Man? Hey, buddy. Why are you blooping? Prepare yourself to discover a world of terrible movies.
High above the planet, Geekery, a group of intrepid explorers hover over the dangerous planet in their fabulous super orbital spacecraft. Their mission, to conduct a complete analysis of movies known throughout the universe as terrible. So grab your space popcorn, grab your freeze dried ice cream, and join us for today's mission of discovery and wonder. Are these movies better than the galaxy thinks? Or do they really belong on the bottom shelf?
Welcome, movie lovers, movie haters, and movie apathetics. To this is another episode of the bottom shelf. Yay. And joining me today, as always, my cap oh, captain, my captain, we have Dallas the muscle mora. Hello. Nobody's ever called me the muscle. I feel I feel happy. I'm normally the fat guy in the corner. Well, and and then next to the fat guy in the corner, we have force ghost bam. Hello. I have returned. Boogie. Boogie. Spooky. That's the wrong kind of ghost, isn't it?
That that's that's about as Halloween as we're probably gonna get this month. There's spiders. That's Halloweeny. Yeah. So we're we're doing something weird here and not going with the obvious theme for this month. We're doing our own little theme for October. We're having spider month, and, kicking it off this month, we are doing relatively newish schlock madam Webb. Yeah. Dallas, can you tell us a little bit intro the movie for us a little bit? Yeah. So let me pull up the database here.
2024, Sony had to release a Spider Man film to keep their licensing. They dug deep into the beloved Spider Verse to bring to life madam Webb, realizing that they were dealing with a beloved property with an abundance of established floor. They hired Matt Zama, the very man who struck gold with his winning strategy of ignoring all the lore with his movies, Morbius and Power Rangers. But then with the desire to make a blockbuster movie proper, the Phil somehow unique, different, ungod.
They hired S. J. Clarkson, who directed 30 TV series and 1 TV movie. That's winning strategies, starring Dakota, Johnson who, had about 50 shades of emotions that were indistinguishable. Quite talented. A confused Sydney Sweeney, Isabelle Mercedes or Mercied, who was still wondering where Swiper was, Celeste O'Connor, who was looking for a proton pack, and Tahar Rahim, who didn't realize they were actually filming all of his read throughs, not his actual acting
scenes. And it was just an awkward situation. Yeah. You you've got me looking forward to this. Oh gosh. Well, bam. Maybe you can read the back of the box and try to sell me on it. Okay. I'll do my best. Let's see here. Madame Web tells the standalone origin story of 1 Marvel Publishing's most enigmatic heroines. The suspense driven thriller stars Dakota Johnson as Cassandra Webb, a paramedic in Manhattan who may have clairvoyant abilities.
Forced to confront revelations about her past, she forges a relationship with 3 young women destined for powerful futures if they can all survive a deadly present. Did somebody say something about presents? I love presents. It this movie is a gift to who? Is there a term problem? But I I haven't watched it yet. Let's let's let's talk trivia. Okay? Maybe I can sell myself if I just access our Internet movie databases.
Okay. It says here that this movie is unusual from car, Marvel Comics related movies as apparently, there is no post credit scene for this movie, so we don't have to sit through the trailer the credits at least. Right? Oh, good. Because I really have to pee already. I'm not necessarily heartbroken over that. I mean, that that that thing's gotten old. This is actually Dakota Johnson's first Marvel film, though she's admitted in interviews that she has never seen a Marvel film except for a
quarter of one of them. And when asked to name the past 3 Spider Man films, she was unable to name any of them correctly, listing them as follows. Spider Man, here he comes. Spider Man, and he's back. And then the goblet of Spider Man. This is this is giving me hope. This is a new hope? I'm actually interested in those.
This is the first Marvel movie based on a character that did not have their own self titled comic series, And then apparently, Sony had plans for either Andrew Garfield or Tom Holland to appear as Spider Man, but ultimately cut all references to Spider Man from the final version of this film. Interesting. I have thoughts.
Great. Take. The live action of debut this is the live action debut of Spider Man related characters Cassandra Webb, Julia Carpenter, Anya Corazon, and Mattie Franklin, and Ezekiel Sims. All of the women, except for Webb, have taken the mantle of Spider Woman, which is more famously held by Jessica Drew. So that's something. This is this movie is loosely based on the book of Ezekiel storyline from the amazing Spiderman number 506 through 508.
And according to Adam, Marons, the filmmakers set the film in 2003 so they could feature Britney Spears, Toxic, an inclusion taken by the skin of their teeth. Toxic was not published as a single until January 12, 2004. However, Britney Spears' album, In the Zone, was published on November 15, 2003. So literally, they set this film in 2003 so they could feature a 20 year old Britney Spears song in November. I I'm feeling more hulk ish than Spider Man ish after you're reading that trivia.
Yeah. I was hoping that it might possibly sell me on this movie, but, like, let let let let's go into expectations because Do you wanna do that or do you wanna do community outreach first? Let's do community outreach because I have thoughts not for my expectations. Let's let's hit that outreach. Are we gonna go round robin, or are we gonna have someone just read them off? Let's let's do round robin. Sure. So, I will read, my dude, Jonathan Gilbert, who was on our Mortal Kombat episode, by
the way, folks. Go check that out. Both of them, if I remember correctly. Right, John? I believe so. Yeah. Madame Web is one of those overhyped movies that had a chance to launch a franchise, and they just threw it away. The acting was lackluster. And oftentimes, Dakota Johnson's performance felt more like a table read than a full production movie. The writing reminded me of an eighties b horror movie where everyone knows the killer is looking for them, but they make themselves both visible
and vulnerable. The dinner scene, comes to mind for that trope. Over the entire movie felt overall, the entire movie felt like it was rushed or like the nineties Fantastic 4 movie, it was done to keep licensing rights with Sony. Except unlike the nineties Fantastic 4, Madame Web was actually released. In my opinion, the bottom shelf movie, it's a bottom shelf movie, mainly to be viewed by film students to learn how to not make a movie, in
particular, a superhero movie. Based on what I've heard so far, I think I'd prefer the Nunavies Fantastic 4 movie. You know, I I've never been into Fantastic 4, so I have 0 dogs in that fight. Oh, it's fantastic. I'm sure. Just like the other 2 that I'm aware of. Or are there 3 that I know? Well, that goes to show you how interested I am. Well, here's one from, a friend of the show, John Frutiger. I do. Says it most certainly was a movie. It's been.
It's spit in the face of a ton of established lore in order to fit as many characters as possible and tried to turn it from a suspend turn it into a suspense thriller that kept hinting at action, but never delivered. If you know the lore of the characters, then you see it, and you're severely underwhelmed. If you don't know the lore of the characters and you see it, then you're really confused. The plot and tie ins are completely incomprehensible for most people.
Since I'm a fan of the movies that do that sort of time jump well, I was able to follow the disjointed logic, but I know that the big sticking point that was a big sticking point for a lot of people. And then he mentioned some, some spoilers to this, which I'm a read. So, it hinted at characters getting their getting their powers and being in a formidable force that never actually that but they never actually get them in the movie, and you never see this come to fruition.
There is not a single legitimate fight seen in the entire film, and because you all you have are flashes and hints of what will happen in the future, you never get any you never get a good look at them suited up in their heroic grandness for any period long enough to admire it. Conclusion, it's a superhero movie in the same way that Unbreakable was a superhero movie, but with a worse plot. I'm trying to figure out if that means that John doesn't like
that movie. Well, Unbreakable was it was essentially supposed to be only the first act of the story. Like, in my Shalomand said specifically, he he he wanted to do, like, just the first act. Like, up to where he the hero becomes the hero, and then he wanted to stop the story there because he really wanted to focus on the And I really wish he would have done that instead of making 2 more movies. But That's not true. I I I don't own the other 2 movies. I only have Unbreakable.
I stopped it. I didn't even like Unbreakable. So I loved it. If I remember correctly, I think John saw Unbreakable with me when we were kids, and I'm pretty sure he enjoyed it back then too. Yeah. But I I I I think I understand what he's saying is that based on what he's talking here, you see them suited up, but they never actually do anything. Oh, they're trying to be unbreakable, but couldn't pull it off. Yeah. I think that's what he's saying.
John, if that's not what you're saying, correct us. Alright. Alright. Dale spoke up and says, does it come in 50 shades? But No. I hadn't seen it. Can't help you on this one. Alright. Our boy, Drake Tungsten, d Tungsten says, I've not seen it, but I've heard it's really dumb. They made Sydney Sweeney look kind of frumpy. Okay. And we got a few we got a few notes here from people in the geeks under grace, crew. We're not naming names for them for reasons.
So first one says, love the cast, love the setup, never seen the 3rd act falls fall apart so bad. None of the vision comes true. Alright. From another member, forgettable, but not the worst movie. And then, from another one. I think you copied that same comment twice, bro. So what? Looking on the looking on the comments here, it looks like that last one is the same as the one that I just read. Oh, true story. Well, never mind. What's the Or is it a vision of the future?
Or is Dallas I just had a really weird case of deja vu. Or is Dallas just really terrible at paste and copy? No. I we purposely aren't necessarily named name. There was a lot of people in the GUG community who gave us stuff, and so I I'd feel bad about naming names if we're not gonna name every person and read
everyone their comments. But this is, like, these 2 these the the 3 I had chosen, but these 2 specifically also they summarize basically what everyone was saying about it in the GUG community. Shout out to our friends at Geek Under Grace, by the way. Love those guys. Good friends of mine. So Alright. Let's go with our lowered expectations. Dallas, you can go first. My expectation is, I want to enjoy it. I have a tendency to see movies that are terrible and go, oh, that wasn't bad.
And so that's what I'm hoping to do because, I like I like the idea of playing with characters that aren't Spider man. Don't get me wrong. Branson, don't be offended. Peter's cool, but, there's a lot out there, and I love the Spider verse movies, but they are pretty much focused around they're they're they're they're basically Miles Morales, movies. And so I'm excited to see other characters highlighted
in a major way. And I'm hoping, if nothing else, this is like some other movies we talked about in the past where it's like, you know, if you remove the name, it's not a terrible movie. You know what I'm saying? Like, Dragon Ball Evolution. You remove Dragon Ball. It's it's an okay sci fi flick, martial arts flick. You remove Mario Brothers. Okay. You got a dystopian sci fi flick. It's it's fun to go with. So that's what
I'm hoping for. Bam, being as you're the spider expert here, why don't you go next? I've not seen this movie before watching for the show. Heard a lot about it. Had every intention of seeing it when I saw the trailer, and then for whatever reason, I never got around to actually seeing it and then the reviews came out. And I readily admit I've got kind of a biased against it for a couple of reasons.
1, I don't I don't like the idea of trying to build a universe of movies centered around Spider Man, but never actually including Spider Man. Spider Man doesn't have to be the focus of every movie in the universe, but to just not mention him at all. And I think I said this when we covered Venom, is, you know, the Spider man is a main part of Venom's backstory. So to see tell the story without Spider man, it just feels odd. And I'm afraid this is gonna be
the same thing. We're gonna see a whole bunch of Spider man references, but no Spider man, and it's gonna be weird. Secondly, the arguing and yelling back and forth. I saw comments everywhere from this was the most amazing movie ever to this was an waste of money. And, basically, the two sides were arguing with each other saying, if you hate this movie, you're part of the problem, or if you love this movie, you're just pandering. So there's just a lot of stuff surrounding it.
I'm gonna do my best to go in with a blank slate and appreciate it for what it is, but I don't have high hopes. And as far as myself, I will say this. There is a man who is very important to me, who was directly responsible for me wanting to become a podcaster. His name is Ben Avery, or whom I lovingly refer to as Ben Ben. I have only seen Ben Ben mad twice in my life, up up until and the very first time was on the strangers and aliens podcast that he does where he reviewed this movie.
I prior to him reviewing that movie, I was unaware that Ben Ben could actually get mad. And, boy, was he mad. So I don't know that I can go in completely unbiased. I certainly can try, but I I don't have high hopes. I'll put it like that. As we go into the mood there, when you have the song. We got high hopes. I don't. I don't know. But slow it down and put it in a minor key. We have high hopes. We're dragging our feet, and I don't know how to watch this movie. I don't I don't I don't know how
long Bam's force ghost is gonna last. So let's let's hit the theater. Dear listeners, this is your opportunity to escape. Our crew has just entered into the media projection chamber. What horrors and madness that they consume are unknown. Their mental state upon their return is unknown. You have been warned. This is the part where I wake up and realize that the past 2 hours was a dream, and I can prevent all of that now. Ready? Go. Welcome, everybody, to this week's episode of the
bot. No. Wait. Alright. That was a movie. Man, that's true. Man, that was true. Man, it was People people people people people people paid money to make that. It was it was exciting, and there was movement. It was just it was a rush, guys. Dallas sounds like an ASM Miller. He sounds like Bob Ross. So much that happened. Happy accents of Here here's here here we're gonna put a happy little plot hole, and then It's okay. There's no such thing as mistakes. We call them happy accidents. Yeah.
No. This movie was a mistake. I I'm telegraphing. Alright. Let's let's maybe let's let's talk about this movie. Let's we this this needs to be discussed. Let's let's go spoiler free. If anybody wants to just dive in spoiler free, feel free to I have a spoiler free thing. So just so everybody knows, the budget was 8 $80,000,000 for this piece of Oh, my gosh. Cinematic masterpiece. It any better. And it made opening weekend $15,000,000. Wow. Isn't that amazing? Oof. It's special. Real
special. I'm sure there was a lot of happy little fires. Executives. Oh my gosh. I I'll I'll I'll I'll have a something legitimate. I I appreciate it some of it. Watching it, it was kinda oddly surreal at times because it kinda felt like 2,003. Like I can dig that. Like, as it drove like, they drove past, like, the blockbuster and then the music, and it was like and it's it's one of those things where it's a film that takes place in time
and but it doesn't feel awkward. Like, it feels very natural to me because that's you know, that was my predominant teenage years right there. I was graduating high school and stuff like that. Whereas, there's some films I watch that they take place in 2003 because they were made in 2003, and they feel very strangely out of place. Like, it's like like, you guys are what I'm talking about. Like, you watch movies, you're like, they're modern day, but they're all, like,
high end fashion, specialized clothing. Like, everything looked very, like no. I people actually wore that. Like Yeah. That's the thing that people forget about is, like, when you watch movies, they're not nobody's wearing clothes that people actually wear. They're wearing, like, high end fashion, somebody's get
paid to do some stuff. They make fun of, there's a there's a thing called the Disney look where you have these Disney characters in, like, on, like, Disney TV and the live action shows, and they're wearing these ridiculous outfits. And everyone's like, why are they wearing that? And it's no girl or young man wears those clothing at all. And in modern movies, that's how it is. But this, like, this felt like
real life in some fashion. There's some stuff that was exaggerated, obviously, but some a lot of it was like, yeah. Okay. I remember seeing dudes wear that or girls wear that or I remember seeing these things take place. I can give a little spoiler free thought about this movie too. I think it wasn't in my trivia, but I'm almost for certain that Madame Web probably wasn't the original title for this movie.
I I have the script right here, actually, and it was originally titled, Pepsi Product Placement, the movie. That's fair. That's fair. Because boy, howdy was Pepsi featured in this movie? I think there I will put it like this. There are more Pepsi product placements in this movie than there are fight scenes. Do with that, which you will. That's true.
I felt like this movie I I I've spoken with a lot of writers, and a piece of advice that they've all given me is that you have to recognize that your first draft of whatever it is you're that you're writing, whether it's a novel, a comic book, a movie, whatever. Your first draft is always gonna be your worst draft. It's your suckiest draft. Don't try to make it perfect, just vomit on the page and get it out there. Don't
because it's gonna be your worst draft. I felt like this movie was somebody's first draft of a script, and they just didn't go back and fix it. I have I have the I have I have it right now, Brent. Since it's right here. Yes. Alright. You know the the conspiracy murder boards where there's, like, there's pictures everywhere, and they're putting, like, strings. They're making, like, a way of a conspiracy. Yeah. Literally, that's all this was. It was, like, just a web of conspiracies.
And, like, somebody take a picture of this and then film it in this order. Yeah. Well, I was just about to I was just about to back take take what Bam was saying and take it a step back and saying it feels like this the script of this movie felt like it was actually shot by outline, and they just told the characters, just say something that makes sense for this this part of the outline. That would work too. Yeah. It was and It's like there was no cleanup in post.
No. And it was like this, it was like it was it was written by committee, and it was all people who don't who didn't understand how teenagers act. Yeah. Because I you know, it's not a spoiler, but I can guarantee you teenagers would not stand up on top of a table in a diner to dance to Britney Spears. And if they did if they did, they wouldn't be up there for very long. I I wanna I wanted to give you that. I knew some who did, but they would not be allowed to do it for very long.
Right. The fact they got away with it as long as they did was was unrealistic. Yes. But is that a spoiler? I don't know what's happening. I don't think that's I don't think that's a spoiler. It doesn't give away anything. I wouldn't say this. I don't think you're wrong about that.
The talking about something completely different. There's this anime called ghost stories that is famous because it's dubbed terribly on purpose because people were like, nobody's gonna check, and so they just made up things. And it's it's it's wow. Like, there's some stuff that is just so, what's the word I'm looking for? Unhinged that they say in this in this thing. You're like, what? Because they're like, nobody's gonna care. And it
some of the writing yeah. It kinda feels like they're, like, 4 words. Say this. I and so many of the reactions did not seem it was almost like someone said, okay. We really need this to happen in the movie, so say something to make it happen. Instead of, let's figure out how to make this feel natural. Let's try to figure out how to make this feel organic. Characters were constantly making decisions that were not in character for the characters they were playing. It was
writing wise, it was a hot mess. It was an absolute hot mess. Yeah. I'd love to be more specific, but we got to wait for I will say acting was not great in this movie either. There was a lot of times that the acting felt really stilted, and the the majority of the villains lines were done in ADR. Yeah. And the ADR didn't always match up with his mouth. I guess that let's say it felt that way several times. So just black stars all around, I guess.
I don't I I don't know what the opposite of a gold star is, but it's just like, no. Just feel the energy of the room here. Like, all 3 of us are just like, it's like, normally, I try. Normally, I try to mask my opinion about a movie until we get to the ratings, but I don't know that I can for the I I I'll try, but I I think I might have given it away. Let's, I was gonna make a song reference, but let's go ahead and jump to the, spoiler section. Give it away.
Ladies and gentlemen, the spoiler section. Having been a teenager who has been assaulted by people with weapons, I can 100% tell you that no teenager is going to leave a point of safety after the fact to go get something to eat. True that. That whole interaction with those girls in and Cassie was so weird. They were, like, they were they're playing over top that idea of, like, I don't even know what you call it. Like, the the brat persona of we're gonna do this, and we're gonna
have fun. And and and here's the deal. So laying things out there, I wrote a lot of our our pre show stuff at the beginning of where we talked about where I was, like, describing the stuff. The direct the lady who directed it, and this is gonna I I'm getting to the point. All she's ever done was direct television, shows in a singular TV movie. That's it. And I'm all for giving people a opportunity to to do stuff
and grow and and make something happen. But the entirety of this movie, including the way those girls were acting, what you're what you're talking about just now, John, feels like it came from a CW TV show. I was thinking Saved by the Bell, but I could see that. I mean, the especially the ending. Holy crap. The ending felt like the outro credits of dadgum birds of prey, if any of me remembers that series. And I hate it because there's so much freaking potential with these ladies.
Like, so much potential with the the characters that they have here. And, again, I I legitimately do not know most of these young ladies. I've seen Celeste O'Connor, and I like her. She was fun in in Ghostbusters. I don't know the other ones. I have no desire to watch 50 shades of gray. So sorry, lady, but there's so much here that they could've done with. And then we get kept teasing all these things like, yes. Give
me this. Let's see this here. And they're like, no. In the in what you're you're tapping on a thought that I had that all the bad guys vision of the future look like a better movie than the one we watched. It's just like Yeah. Seeing the 3 girls work together as a as a spider woman team, it's like, I wanna watch that movie. Why am I watching this? Even even that vision, why are they trying to kill him? Like, that that did more to paint them as
the villains of this movie. Like, at that point of the movie, I was like, I kinda get why he's trying to find them. Because they just randomly show up in his apartment and kill him one day. He says, though, in, like, in in a in a just quickly while he's seducing the director of the FBI, something. I don't know what she is. And he's like, he goes Inspector McGuffin. They're they're after him because of what he becomes later. And so we
that that's their way of going. This is how terrible of an individual I am, but, like, we don't know what he does. Right. And and and this is doubly this is doubly frustrating for me. And and when, John was read reading the, the trivia about how this was based on Ezekiel Sims, Dallas saw me lose my crap a little bit. I read the amazing Spider Man comic where they introduced Ezekiel Sims as a character. Yes. That whole story is all about
a a a self sacrifice thing. Like, he is a guy who has spent his life he's not a villain. He's not a bad guy. He's just selfish. And in that comic arc, he literally gives sacrifices himself to save Peter. Like, there's this character named Morland who absorbs powers from, totemic superheroes who who have animals as their symbols. And Peter and Ezekiel get in a fight with Morland, and Ezekiel flat out like, he spends most of the ark saying, I don't get involved. I, you know, I I use
my money to protect myself. And at the very end, he jumps in and get gives his life to save Peter. So the fact alone that they've made him the villain of this movie is a little bit offensive to start with because when I was first introduced to the character, he was a hero. A reluctant hero, but a hero nonetheless. And Sort of a Tony Stark sort of character. Yeah. Yeah. Like like, I don't wanna get involved. I don't wanna bother anything. But then he
becomes that hero later. And so to see him as the villain like, I I stopped referring to him as Ezekiel. I I just this is somewhat different because that's not Ezekiel Sims. That that's that's just go read the comic if you wanna know what what Ezekiel Sims is supposed to be. That might be the next episode on Spider Man. Seriously, I might go review that comic just to fix what Adam Webb has done. Oh my gosh. That's wild. Absolutely wild. Yeah. Pepsi. Yeah.
I didn't see Cherry Pepsi, though. That would have made it better if they have shown Cherry Pepsi somewhere. Did that exist in 2003? Oh, yeah, bro. Come on, man. Pepsi Cherry Pepsi has been around all ever as long as I've been alive, at least. Yeah. Although back in the eighties, they called it wild cherry because Yeah. Because it's wild, man. I'm more of a Doctor Pepper guy myself.
Yeah. I like Doctor Pepper. I pretty much don't drink anything with caffeine in it anymore, so I'm not any kind of caffeinated soda guy. I used to drink the best out of Mountain Dew. Like, Mountain Dew was my drink. That was. Oh, I did too until my anxiety set in. Hey, welcome to the Cola talk. Today, we're talking to our favorite Cola drinks from the eighties nineties and beyond. And it's still more interesting than this than this movie. Do you remember Serge? I remember Serge. I
remember that. It came back, bro. It tried. I had one and I'm like, yep, that tasted like the nineties. And Can we talk about the fact that they've replaced the name for Sierra Mist? And for some reason, it tastes different now? It it tastes the same to me, but you know why they changed the name. Right? Yeah. There was some, like, they were doing a cease and desist on a lady whose name was Sierra Mist. Right. And they were trying to take over her socials because that was her name. Yeah. So
she sued them. She was she was bad for their brand. So she sued them. Yeah. And so that's awesome. It's is it starry now? Yeah. Yeah. Starry bits? But it it tastes different to me, though. Oh, it's it's I think it's, psychosomatic, my dude, because It took a Sierra Mist was was was is a staple. Sierra Mist and Mountain Dew Code Red, those were my drinks I had on my lunch breaks at Hollywood video. I did like Code Red. Code Red was good. Yeah. Yeah.
So we're talking about the movies. I was about to say the fact the fact that we just spent probably about 5 minutes talking about soda instead of this movie should speak volume. Like, oh, my. This movie for for as for as much flash and bang as there was in this movie. And there was there was a lot of visual effect flash in this movie. It's a pretty forgettable movie. It it tries to. I agree with Froediger in that it tries to cram too much into this movie, and as a result,
nothing comes out of it. I think that might be 90% of the problem is they just try and they they they have a problem with doing this with, Spider Man properties, and Sony, specifically, is cramming so much in. Celeste and I, Celeste is gonna be on the show originally, but she, couldn't be stay up this late. But we were talking about it, and it would have been so much better if they had just not included the girls at all.
Had just been Cassie, kinda learning what the crap is happening, taking the trip to Peru, dealing with the the the jungle Spider Man people, and even having Ezekiel chasing. I'm okay if Ezekiel being a bad guy if they just make him interesting. And, like, he'll he's chasing her for whatever reason and end it there with a vision of the future. But the way they did this whole thing, like, I like, because the way it started, I'll be okay. We're gonna play by the typical,
you know, time future rules. And what's gonna happen is that Ezekiel's gonna, quote, unquote, die, but we're gonna see that he didn't die, and that's why the girls are attacking him later. That's gonna be the there's no reason for them to have powers. It's not even addressed. Do anything. It's not even addressed. And I could I could I could understand the because she has future telling powers, make her the protector of of of somebody.
But I think the story would have worked better if with that vein, if they had dropped it to just 1 girl. Choose one of the future Spider Woman, and then let let the only time you see her in a suit is when I was about to call her Jessica. Cassandra. When Cassandra has a vision of the future, she knows what the single girl becomes. And I think you could have made it work with any of the girls, honestly. Or just take one movie about the 3, the team of the 3 going after the
dude. Yeah, that would have been a fun movie. Yeah, that would have worked too. It's it's almost like they picked the worst possible part of the story to tell. You know? I just had that just gave me a thought. I thought about that part in the Bible where David's being pursued by Paul and then David cuts off a piece of Paul's garments, not Paul, Saul's garments in the table. He's taken a dump in the cave. Yeah. Like, this movie is just a big focus on Saul taking a dump.
Yes. To put it in perspective, yes, it's a part of a much better and more meaningful narrative. But just because it's part of it doesn't mean that it's gonna hold up on its own. Right? Yeah. Well, it's a lot. Sorry. Go on, Ritzel. I was just gonna say, my my first exposure to Madame Web was actually the nineties cartoon. Spider Man Heck yes. Spider Man nineties cartoon. That's the first time I ever knew that Madame Web was even a character.
And so I have a very specific idea in my head of what Madame Web is supposed to look like, what she's supposed to be capable of, and this ain't it. This ain't it. You know, the the fact that she can see the future, I think that her blindness should have been a bigger part of the story. What if what if the reason she starts having visions of the future, what triggers that power is that she goes blind. This is something that Celeste asked us. Why were her powers so, like, absolutely nonexistent
until this point of the movie? Like, she's clearly a woman in her thirties or something like that. Maybe close to 40 something years old. She's clearly an older woman. Why is her powers just now kicking in? Because she died. No. They started kicking in before that. Oh, yeah. They were working before. No. They didn't. Yes. Oh, they did. Yeah. They did. They started right when oh. Well, I can't help you. I've I forgot that she had her first premonition before she died.
It would have been great if, it's weird. It would have been great if she died first. But, no, like, it would have made more sense if she had died first, and then Mhmm. It triggered something. Like, it was, like, one of, like, the venom still in her body and it healed her and also unlocked some stuff in her when it healed her. But it just didn't make sense. Like, there's not a lot of thought in some of the stuff. And I I Right. Like, there's so much lost opportunity
here. They could have done great stuff with all this. Sony could've done taken this store the the just this whole world they're building here and ran and done some amazing stuff outside of Marvel proper as a whole. Yep. Disney would not have gotten a fraction of the money, and it would have been amazing. But it and here's the deal. This is I heard somebody explain this. Sony has to do put out a Spider man based movie every so every so often in order to keep the licensing.
And, basically, what it was is this movie was there. Oh, quick. Throw out a script because we are about to lose all the spider money. It's the same thing they do with Morbius. They just Yeah. There's something out there. Yeah. And with crazy layers That's pretty par for the course. That's the reason why we got those, I guess, 3 terrible Fantastic 4 movies is because they were trying to hang on to that license. Mhmm. Does some of the Fantaspor?
No. That was a 20th Century Fox. Somebody outside of Marvel. But, yeah, that that's the reason why. Too. So yeah. I'd and I get that as a business decision, why? But they're they're playing with characters that see, that's that's the thing about the the quarter of the Marvel Universe that is specific to Spider Man. It is so vast on its own that you actually could have an entire universe of stories that have nothing to do with the rest of Marvel. Kind of like Batman and DC.
Right. Batman's universe is so fleshed out that you could have a whole, universe of stories. A whole TV show about Gotham that doesn't feature Batman at all. So it's it's not that they're hurting for characters. They they're they're they've got plenty of characters to play with. Mhmm. But it and I get the the the business side of it, but I almost wish what I wish they could do is and I had thought about this way back when when they were first wrapping up things with with Marvel.
Let them have a movie where Peter Parker and Miles Morales finally meet, and they do their Spider Verse thing, and then let Miles Morales become the official Spider Man of the MCU. Let Peter Parker become the official Spider Man of Sony. And then that way, they don't have to play together anymore. And Sony can make their Spider Verse movies, and Marvel can make all their Marvel movies with a Spider Man emblem, and have fun. Go to town. And you don't have to worry about playing catch up with
any kind of connected universe anymore. To be perfectly honest, I don't think anybody I don't think the word Marvel movie carries the weight it once did anymore either. So It doesn't. Oh, it doesn't. It doesn't. That's why that's I mean, I hate to say it, but that's why I think it ought to be Bells Morales with the MCU and Peter Parker with the SOTY verse. Mhmm. Because Peter Parker is the classic character, and Sony's trying to build off of those classic characters.
And that's not a knock against Miles Morales. I love Miles Morales' Spider Man. Mhmm. I thoroughly enjoy his story. But for what Sony is trying to do, Peter Parker just works better. Mhmm. I can give you that. Alright. Well, does anybody have anything else they wanna say or thoughts they wanna share prior to giving your rating? Let's let's include the fact that that that they did try to squeeze in some Spiderman isms in
it. They Yes. They had a a young Ben Parker who was wearing the the the the Ben Parker, what do you call it, knitted jacket thing, that we see in the movies later. They had, Peter. Technically, they had Peter. Yeah. And it wasn't it wasn't a and I appreciate it. This wasn't a, you know, we're gonna ignore the existence of Peter Parker and all that as a whole. It was those Jimmy, there's a Peter Parker there. Mhmm. And but it was super before his before he was Yeah. Broke right as
he's being born. And they had a form of the famous line, but that was listed as when you take on the responsibility, great power will come, which I kinda like the way that's phrased out. I legitimately like that. I did too. I I I thought that was a nice nod to the the source material, but also looking at that concept from a completely different angle. It's the idea that when you choose to take all the responsibility,
that's what gives you the power. Instead of you've got this power, now you have to have the responsibility. I like that reversal. I will say if you want to talk about the Spider Man isms or the spider isms, the spasms, and it doesn't matter. At the end when they're all in the hospital room, and she's all like, oh, being an uncle's great. It's all the fun of having a kid with none of the responsibility. And then she's like, that's what he thinks.
It's just like she's making light of the fact that, oh, Spider Man's parents are gonna die. That's just she she just has the grin on her face. It's like, how inappropriate. That's just more proof that the writing had zero thought behind it. They just put it down because they were like, teehee. Yeah. Definitely. So it yeah. There was a lot of things true for most that was true for most of the movie. They were having reactions
that just didn't make sense. Like, the the the girls are being hunted by a killer. They're out in the middle of the woods, and I think someone mentioned this earlier. Hey. I'm hungry. Let's just go to a diner. Yeah. And and and eat. And so they're sitting there. They're eating. Again, supposedly being hunted down by this killer. And then, hey. There's a bunch of cute boys at the table. Let's go flirt with them. And then, hey. There's a song I like. Let's get
on the table and dance. We're supposed to be laying low. We're supposed to not be easy to find. It it it was almost like they said, we want this fight scene in this diner. But here's the problem. They have effectively removed themselves from all digital cameras. How are we going to make them give give an excuse for why the killer can find them there? I know. Let's have a guy see them making a fool of themselves and call the phone. You know, call
the police and say, hey. Those 3 girls that were supposedly kidnapped, yeah, they're totally fine flirting with a football team at this diner. You know, it just all of it seemed random. Well, even though, like, all the stuff that was really random that we're, like, all of a sudden there's action. Those are all the things they put together in the trailer to make us think this is an action
packed movie. Right. And and so I put up brought it up in in our community outreach about how they deceptively piece the trailers together to go, man, they're gonna be we're gonna have the the 3 spider women going at it, fighting. Let's go. You know, we're thinking that Cassandra's been training these young ladies to be mighty warriors of the web or whatever you wanna say. And all they did was just paste and copy.
I mean, at first when I first saw the trailer, I thought I was like, oh, are they are they playing with, like, Spidey when he was wearing the black suit and he was working for shield? Like, what's going on here? And he goes, no. No. That's Ezekiel. Okay. Cool. And you see him awkwardly in costume, out of costume in the
same scene. Yeah. And then can we can somebody explain to me the dream sequence where she's talking to Ezekiel, getting this information all of a sudden, and then will you see that? How does that happen? Very convenient that your ability to see the future also gives you telepathy because reasons. I mean Just like the ability to see the future also allows you to be in 3 places at once because reasons. But he didn't know who Cassie was until after that till, like like, it was,
like, a like, till she got back. He had no idea who she was. I can't explain it to you. This is a this is a literary device called deus ex machina where it happens because it happens because it happens. The whole movie was like that. Yeah. Mhmm. Let's get our rating, guys. Yeah. Yes. Do that. Let's do that. Dallas, why don't you go ahead and discuss the ratings, give the definition to possible new listeners. Yeah. So if you guys are new to the bottom shelf, we have a
4 tier system for rating movies. It's it's very complicated. There's a lot of math and number crunching. It's been really rough because Branson was our resident mathematic person. Now he's off being forced ghosty. Anyways, so that being said, top shelf, this is really hard to get this. You go, I need to own this. I want to own this on Blu ray, DVD, VHS, if that's your jam. And I wanna have this. Middle shelf is
I'd watch it maybe feel streaming. You know, if it was on the bat in the background, I might watch it. Bottom shelf probably will never watch this again. Just even if it's on TV, I'll just flip past it and go on with my life. And then we have the dumpster fire where we say, I will actively keep people from watching this movie ever again. Let it burn from existence and never be a thing.
And to our knowledge, to this date, no film has ever made it into space, but rumors speak of a strange film about a bald headed kid with a blue arrow. I don't know what's what that's about. Yeah. Yeah. So who wants to jump in on this first? I will because I feel like my answer might be different from yours. Uh-oh. Okay. Go for it. Peek behind the kimono as John says. He he goes, oh my gosh. And he was suggesting his thing, and I went, well, I'm dusting off my top shelf here, boys.
So that being said, I was dusting my top shelf because it was dirty. No. I'm putting this on the bottom shelf, actually. I was kinda in between, like, if it's in the background and somebody's like, I wanna watch this. Okay. Just so I could be angry again at the fact that there's so many missed opportunities, but it's a bombshell film. It's not one of them just, like, throw it away into the ether and let it be forgotten. It's
almost already forgotten. I don't we don't have to we don't have to put in dumpster fire, but it is a I think it is a great thing to point out to go, this is what we could do. Like, these are great characters, and I I I want to stress this because some people are gonna listen to this and go, you're just angry because these are women. No. I these are great characters. Genuinely amazing characters that have depth, that have warmth
to them, just the script. And I I, again, I don't know who any of these actresses are except for the one, and I hope that this is a Matt problem of direction and script writing because these characters they've been given can do some amazing things. So I'll put it on the bottom shelf. Alright. I'll go next so Bam can be in the uncomfortable position of being the tie breaker.
I would equate watching the for me, for for the experience I had watching this movie, I would put it on par with drinking a lukewarm cup of somebody else's vomit. No. Okay. I I as I when I put this movie on, I kept choking it down because I had to, not because I wanted to, which would be like if somebody told me I had to drink a cup of someone else's vomit, it would be very much a similar situation. I like I sat all day looking for reasons not to actually watch this movie until I had to.
And then when I put it on, I kept fidgeting with my phone and other things around me because I just I was so disengaged with this movie. I didn't I you know, I'm not I'm not gonna drag this out with flowery speed dumpster fire. I this this needs to cease to exist. Not so much because I want to prevent other people from watching this movie. I want to prevent me from ever accidentally walking in
on it at some point in time. Like, I know that, like, this is mortal combat annihilation territory for me. So I I genuinely respect that. I'm just gonna tell you, I I was almost there with you, and so I I'm barely on the bottom. It's hanging on. It's like the bottom is, like, singeing. The plastic's melting a little bit. It was kinda like that video where Kevin was trying to light the fog on fire Mhmm. But it just wouldn't light at
first. It's that's where it's at. Your your your rating is like the red headed glasses girl from this movie at in the end scene when she's just hanging on right over the burning door. Basically. Alright, Bam. Break this tie for us. Just peer into the webs and be everywhere, Bryson. Because reasons. Yeah. I've actually flip flopped back and forth with my ratings for the exact reasons that both of you have cited. I, for a little while, was in the camp of the,
this is terrible. This is this this this should not exist. This is I I hate the time I spent watching this. Like, there was a reason I never got around to see it in theaters. And and now that I've seen it, I'm not glad that I saw it. But on the flip side, I've also thought, Dallas, what you thought about there is such potential there if they had just
worked with it more. Picked one story, polished it, done something with it other than just vomited it out, it had the potential to be something greater. So what I'm wrestling with is, do I rate it based on what it is or what it could be? And as far as I understand, the way this rating works is we're not rating the show or the movie based on what it could be. We're rating it based on what it is. And there are too many flaws.
I don't know that it offends me to the point that I would actively try to tell people not to watch it, but I can't really find anything redeemable about it in its form right now. So based on the fact that it is not good now, I'm gonna have to dumpster fire it. Alright. So there you have it, everybody. It we're this movie is going to be scrubbed from existence. Never shall we speak of it again. What are we talking about? Right. We're gonna talk about some weak connections, I think. About what?
Welcome. It hasn't gone into the dumpster fire yet, Dallas. We haven't tossed it there yet. So Oh. So welcome to the weak connection portion of the podcast where we try to find something redeemable, something redemptive, some kind of forced message, because it is, from the movie we just watched. You should learn CPR. Yes. Well, does anybody have anything redemptive for this movie? Yeah, I do. Go for it, mister light shining in the darkness. You're the blue one, Branson. Oh, that's me.
I was I was talking about you. I thought Bam I thought Bam said he didn't. I did. I do, actually. Oh, well, either one of you can go. So the Spider fan takes take the lead on this one. Spider fan. Spider fan does whatever a Spider fan does. Alrighty. On my Spider fan podcast, this is the part where I'd say my spider sense is tingling. We mentioned before the nod to with great power comes great responsibility, and they said, once you accept the responsibility, that's when great power comes.
And, I actually really appreciated the reversal of that, because it gives the idea of you don't wait for you to have the ability to do what is right. You just do what is right and trust that that when the moment comes, you'll have the ability to do what you need to do. Mhmm. It reminds me of a something that I hear, quoted in churches a lot. God does not call the equipped. He equips the called. Mhmm.
And we see examples of that throughout scripture, where God calls men and women who, at the time God calls them, are not prepared to do the thing that God has called them to do. But over time, through God's redemptive work, he prepares them. He puts them at the right place at the right time so that they can do the things that they are called to do. Huge example is Gideon. When he's hiding from the Philistine army, trying to sort out wheat, and an angel appears before him and and calls him a
mighty man of valor. At that point, Gideon is not a mighty man of valor. He's literally hiding so that he doesn't get, assaulted while he's separating wheat from chaff. But God calls him to lead the armies of Israel against the Philistine army. And and and really not even a full army. He he breaks it down to just 300 bid by the time it's over with. But, just that and there there's several other examples, but the one I the one I really wanna focus on is actually in Daniel, Daniel chapter 3.
Let me find the verse here. So, basically, Nebuchadnezzar has this dream of this big statue with 4 different metals, and Daniel interprets it, and everything's cool. So he builds a giant golden statue and tells everyone that the nation of, is it Babylon Leviticus or is it Babylonian king? Right? He tells everyone in Babylon, when you hear the trumpet, you need to bow down and worship the statue. And there were these 3 guys, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
That's not their Hebrew names, but I don't remember their Hebrew names. Shadrach, and Benny. Yeah. From the vegetale lore. But they refused to bow. They refused to worship. And so Nebuchadnezzar, calls them out on it. And he says, chapter 3 starting with verse 15, now if you are ready when you hear the sound of the hornpipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, to fall down and worship the image that I have made, well
and good. But if you do not worship, you shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you out of my hands? Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answered and said to the king, oh, Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. If this be so, our god, whom we serve, is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of your hand, o king.
But if not, be it known to you, o king, that we will not serve gods or worship the golden image that you have set up. So, basically, these three guys tell Nebuchadnezzar, look, you really don't have a position to threaten us because the god we serve is more than capable of delivering this out of delivering us out of this fire. But if even if he does it even if he does it, we're not bowing to your statue. We serve the one true God. And even if it leads to our death,
we're not backing down. And as the story goes, they lead him it they lead them into the fiery furnace, and the thing is so hot that the people forcing these 3 guys into the furnace die from heat, from the heat of it. And they walk into the furnace, and they don't burn. Not only do they not burn, but Nebuchadnezzar says that he sees a 4th man in the fire with them who has a face like the son of god. And we've come to learn that that is actually an appearance of Jesus in the Old Testament.
And what I think is amazing about that story is that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did not know walking to the furnace that God would deliver them. They knew God was perfectly capable of it, but there was no guarantee. So they walked to that furnace willing to die, willing to be burned, because they knew this was the law that God had set down. We serve the one true God, and we're not gonna step down from it. They were willing to say, this is the law. This is what we do.
And because they were willing to take that leap, because they were willing to take that step to say, okay. If we burn, we burn, Then god comes in and delivers them. God doesn't prevent them from going to the furnace. God delivers them while they are in the midst of that furnace. God doesn't put out the flames. God just keeps them from burning while they are in the flames.
And I really got that vibe with with this this quote of Madame Webb of when God has called you to do something, you take it on whether you feel qualified to do it or not. As a matter of fact, if God is calling you to do it, you're probably not qualified, which is exactly why God calls you. Because then he gives you the power. He gives
you what you need. He equips you, and that brings glory to him because people look at that and say, man, there's no way that guy could do that, but he's doing it anyway. Why? And that opens a platform for us to talk about Jesus and to say, well, the reason we're able to do this is because of Jesus, because we have a relationship with
Christ. And so that was my my weak connection in the one of the few redeemable things about this movie was that concept is that you don't wait around to have to to be equipped to do what god calls you to do. You just step out in faith and do what god calls you to do, and then he gives you the power as you're being obedient to him. Alright. Good deal. Captain Mora? Yeah. Mine I have there's a couple that
I have that I can run with. I wanna kinda piggyback off of Branson's because I it was mine was based on the same line also, with that line of, you know, we take up responsibility, great power will come upon you. And there's a level of of fear when the Lord goes, hey. You're gonna go do something, and you're like, uh-uh. And the impact of you walking in that, I wanna encourage folks in that. It may be scary, but there's a lasting impact that you don't know about on the back end of that.
I was thinking about Ananias in, in Acts chapter 9. Paul, for context, you know, he was out persecuting the Christians, gets knocked off his high horse, literally, gets blinded, and then he's, laid up in a place waiting for for the something to happen. The Lord tells him to go and wait. And God shows up to Ananias, and he's like, hey. You're a disciple. You're cool. Get up and go to this house, and you're gonna pray for Saul of Tarsus. And he's like, no. Not happened, Jesus.
He's trying to kill us. That kills people. Yeah. You know? He's like he's looking at he's looking at an impossible situation. He's looking at a situation and goes, that man is out to kill me, and you want me to go pray for him? I mean, have you missed the memo? What's going on? And the Lord says, no. Go do this. Because there's a lasting impact, and there may be a situation where you're called to do it and you have fear.
But if you walk in that, it may not make sense, but the Lord will empower you to do some stuff, to walk some amazing things, and there will be a lasting impact that will change the world. And, again, piggybacking on what Branson said, it's not about making us look good, but it's about pointing to a greater purpose. Nothing we do is for us. It's for the greater purpose. We,
so great, kinda minor minor segue. Recently, this podcast was featured on blueberry.com as podcast of the month, and, they asked several questions. But one of the things to point out was, like, what we do here with this podcast is part of a greater vision. And we have fun. We laugh. We make jokes, but it's to let people know who love and cared for. It sounds to not to the not to look at us and go, John is the greatest podcaster alive. I mean, it's true, but that's not the
point. That's I mean but it's to point people back to the hope, to Christ. And so, I just wanna add my thoughts into Branson's thing. Cool. And I'm gonna be the apostate and not have anything for this. So, can I just point out the fact that they never explained why, what's his face's spider suit never showed up on the cameras in the subway? They did not. Just throwing that out there. Another gaping plot hole. So anyway, I think that's all we got here. So I want to thank everybody for tuning in.
Follow us on the socials at, well, why don't you go ahead and fly us out because I'm still don't got the socials down, Dallas. I I just made a mess of it. Yeah. Hey. First off, if you like Branson, if you like enjoying this conversation about Spider Man and you wanna hear about some Spider Man stuff that doesn't suck, you should check out the spider fan the friendly neighborhood spider fan podcast hosted by Branson, the boykin. The boykin's the boykins,
where he does that. He reviews he's reviewing them in chronological, in order, except for, apparently, the next episode where he's not gonna do it in order. But It it'll it'll be a special episode. Be a special. I'll I'll record it and keep it in my back pocket for a a month where I don't have an episode. But that's fair. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. But either way, Branson is, he's got, that going on. But if you wanna check out more of of the bottom shelf, check out our our
our socials. We're on Facebook and Instagram. Look for the bottom shelf podcast. Also really wanna encourage you guys to check out the Discord channel because this is part of the Geek Devotions Podcast Network, which is part of Geek Devotions. And we have a Discord channel, and we have a whole channel where we talk about bad movies. We have channels within the whole Discord channel talking about life, We encourage people. A lot of the
the comments came from that area. So we really encourage you guys, be part of our community. Let us love you. Let us encourage you where you're at. Alright. And, also go check out geekdevotions.com. That's you can find everything on the podcast network there and then some. So with that, thanks everybody for listening, and, stay devoted, I guess. Peace and love.