The Long Haul with Jim Bramlett

own . I'm your host , nate Shoots . Let's build something together from the ground up . Hello everybody , and welcome back to the show .

We are in season three , doing what we have been doing for a couple of years now going deep into people's personal stories and backgrounds on why they chose to start companies in the supply chain industry and what keeps them going , what are the lessons they've learned along the way , and how can we tap into all of that collective knowledge and not only educate and

inform , but a big part of what we try to do here is also to inspire . For entrepreneurs that are deep into their journey or just beginning , it is a roller coaster ride like no other , and so hearing the stories of others that are going through that same experience often offers them a lot of encouragement .

And then I also get outreach pretty regularly from somebody who says I'm working a job or I have an idea and I'm trying to come up with a way that I can launch this business , and I've got a bunch of questions . And well , entrepreneurship is about asking questions endlessly and trying to find a good answer to it .

So I often tell them I don't have great answers for you , but I do have a library of content of folks that have tried it . Not everybody has succeeded , but they've all said it was worth it , and so that's what this whole thing is about .

So I hope to offer some encouragement and some inspiration today by unpacking the story of Jim Bramlett , who is the CEO of Five String Solutions . He has a storied career in the logistics industry . I'm going to have him unpack a little bit of that for us .

But there are times in your life where you meet somebody and you say , oh my goodness , we have mirror image experiences in a lot of different places , but also just deep interests in a lot of the same places . So we might be talking for two and a half hours today . We'll see .

But first , jim , thank you so much for coming on the show , and would you mind just doing a brief introduction of what your career has looked like so far ?

I took a sales job for a consumer goods company , but after a year it just wasn't my thing

and I ended up getting hired as a management trainee for Roadway Express at a break bulk in Springfield , missouri . That's where I went to school . And , god , I found it so fascinating . And here's what got me .

I mean , very early on I'd see a pallet of freight and I'd say , oh wait , a minute , two days ago that was in Atlanta , and two , you know , two days from now that's going to be in LA . God , look at all the things that have to happen to make that transpire . And that just fascinated me to no end .

And so I began my journey and I've been in it ever since in many different aspects . I've studied LTL , and I mean studied . I've gone through the rules , tariffs , I've gone through lots . So I kind of always kind of centered myself around LTL and I've started in my career seven different companies four for myself , three for others . I've started a division .

I'm proud to say that I was the first guy to start a time-definite service in the LTL industry for yellow back in the day , and until that time it was a one trick pony . We are only doing oh , you want to get Chicago to Atlanta ? It's three days , that's all you get .

So an expedited time definite service and then the others in the industry kind of copied that . So I had a lot of fun doing that . But I've always been a little bit creative , starting new companies , new offerings , new divisions . I just always so . Don't put me in a factory , in a production line , that's just not my gig .

But I've had a lot of fun doing that and I'm still a shareholder in my last company I founded . I'm no longer active in the day-to-day . I let the others do that because I'm doing executive coaching now , running a peer group , and I love that . I'm a business nerd .

I love learning how businesses work , the challenges they face , the wins they experience and all of that . I've a couple books , kind of , about that . I have a really strong theory about organic business growth and I'm out promoting that all the time . I love the journeys of any entrepreneur that's brave enough to take .

You know , take that step and , uh , cause it's scary . It was scary for me a lot of times . Um , so that's a real quick synopsis and I'm going to more detail if you'd like .

The tariffs are not simple . The rules are not simple . The industry makes it pretty complex and there's been very little change from that . However you talk about the progression the industry's found .

One reason for 3PL's existence is to make the lives of shippers simpler easier , save them time and effort , because it's not easy dealing with an LTL carrier and figuring out what the net charge is going to be for any particular shipment . It's not easy finding the right truck to haul your truck load because of the fragmentation in the industry .

So I believe the third-party logistics industry is predicated on exactly what I preach . We're going to make your shippers' lives simpler easier . We're going to save you time and effort . We're going to make your shippers lives simpler easier . We're going to save you time and effort . We're going to give you a better user experience .

We might even be able to save you money and you can trust us , and that's all the things I preach all the time . So I love that kind of progression .

The technology that you mentioned , and now AI is and I'm not kept up with it all , but I've got to imagine AI is absolutely impacting how logistics and transportation companies function and how they can be more efficient Legacy LTL pricing and classification methodology is probably going to be around for a while longer , although there have been a number of attempts at

reform .

We got involved in a lot of pool distribution and those kind of solutions and we were using what is termed as couriers to do the final mile delivery . Well , this is a whole part of the industry I was not familiar with , but one of my people were and I got to learning about it and I was fascinated

by it that these people even existed , because I grew up in the LTL space with big brands you see rolling down the highway everywhere across the cities . You recognize these brands . Well , that courier industry is very fragmented . There's thousands of players . They don't all do the same thing .

I joke that it's an industry a little bit like Baskin Robbins it's ice cream but there's 31 flavors but it's an industry . The courier industry is largely comprised of companies who are using independent contractors . An independent contractor model has a 30% cost advantage over a W-2 provider and they're so flexible . What do you need ? We'll do that .

And so , matter of fact , we were doing distribution to homes for a home party plan company and the drivers actually had the garage door codes for certain customers . They would , you know , deliver every week . Yeah , and they . It was amazing .

So anyway , I got , I got really fascinated with that and and after that journey , you know , we started getting into e-commerce and of course it doesn't take long to say that's going to be pretty popular , right , and ?

And so I saw the writing on the wall that this e-commerce thing is going to pick up , and not necessarily small packets , because there's UPS , fedex and the post office , but on the large and bulky there wasn't anything equivalent to UPS or FedEx .

And so I said , well , that's going to explode and there's going to be more need for that final model delivery , not only the homes but , you know , in case of pool distribution , et cetera . And I ran into a company called Grand Junction I think , nate , you've heard of those guys .

They were very successful putting the data connectors in , data connectors in , so you connect shippers with the final mile and exchange information , you know , passing orders , pulling back shipment statuses , pods and the like , and they were doing quite well .

But they got acquired by your neighbor , target , and Target decided we're not going to make you available to the public . We only want you for our internal use . So tell all your customers that they need to find another home . We'll give them a year . And so I said , hmm , wonder who else is in that line of work .

And I found out who it was and I talked to them and I thought there was something they weren't going to be doing that I thought was important . And so I said you know what ? I think there's not a lot of competition and there's a need .

So I'm going to try and duplicate what Grand Junction was doing , In other words , create a data hub that shippers and carriers , especially fundamental couriers , can connect to , because that all-important status for the end consumer is important . And I tell people now .

I said you know , everybody's pretty accustomed to the information you get when Amazon makes a delivery , but not everybody has their own blue trucks running around .

And so in the large and bulky side of the business , unless you use a 3PL like a JBN or an XPO or something of that nature , if you want to assemble your own network , it's going to take multiple carriers , okay . So how do you get this delivery information ? How do you push orders to them ? How do you get quotes back , whatever you need to do .

From a data standpoint , that's a pretty hard problem to solve . And so I set about solving that . But I didn't want to be a broker . I'd been there and done that and I thought being a Grand Junction being a SaaS provider with the technology connectors . But I want to build a referral network because people don't know who's in the final mile .

They don't know that flavor of ice cream . Oh , I want to deliver fitness equipment what kind of carriers do I need ? Or I want to deliver meal kits what do I need for that ? And so we built a referral network so that when we engaged a shipper , I could introduce them . But they cut the deal themselves . We were just a technology enabler .

So that's what we set out to do and we're still doing it . Only I'm not doing it on a day-to-day basis .

You have carriers in the final mile of a whole bunch of different varieties , from couriers on up to box trucks doing white glove delivery , and then you have truckload providers , you have final mile nodes .

And then you have the shipper side of things , where , from enterprise on down to small business , they're not in the logistics business , they are in the product business , and this is a necessary evil in some ways , and they can either let that be a liability or they can turn it into some kind of a competitive advantage .

And so , after the decades of experience that you had at that point to be able to articulate a narrow gap that wasn't being served in the industry , that kind of intuition and deep insight that says , hey , I know somebody's building this product , but I think they're missing another layer , that level of strategic identification of a market need .

Where did that come from for you ? Is that something that are you ? Constantly your back brain is thinking about ltl and you can't turn it off . Or did you read a book ? Or like , where does that curiosity to keep looking for that .

They love that , they price that , that's what they want .

Okay , well , you don't like it , but there is a factor segment of the transportation industry does like it . You know , I used to joke when I started meeting these final mile carriers , the couriers hey , do you know about limited access ? And they go what are you talking about ? Well , do you charge extra to deliver to the self-storage unit ?

Do you charge extra to deliver to a house ? Do you charge extra for the lift gate that's on your box truck ? No , no , no To them . It's a delivery which I think it's another opportunity for customers to use a different kind of service that may be a little bit better on the delivery . But you just hit the nail on the head . What about the middle mile ?

See , they're just final mile . And so how you integrate that middle mile to the final mile ? Probably best served by a 3PL . That's what they do , and I've said this all along . If all you do is resell another service , you're just a pure transactional broker and you're just offering LTL resell services . How much value is there really there ?

Tl resell services how much value is there really there ? But when you can do something like pool distribution , you're managing the middle mile and you're putting it coordinating with the final mile . Oh , by the way , I've got a network of people who can do your assembly of your fitness equipment . That's where real value comes to play .

And so , yeah , I'm always thinking what is it that makes sense , that adds more value to the equation or takes costs out of the equation , because that's got to be popular ?

It's just the way of things , because I , because we're both drawn to the similar parts of the market and , um , I , I agree , we are , you are a brother from another mother , for me as well . So you have this professional career portion of you . You're an executive , you learn the ropes and then you're responsible for things .

Then you have a couple of other chapters where you're starting businesses , you're exiting businesses and after all that time now you still are an owner , but you have somebody else running five string . What is that process ? What has it been like for you ?

Not not technically or not financially , and reviewing dashboards remotely and all that , but what has it meant for you to have to let go of the vision that you maybe started it with ? And the next generation is coming in and they share a lot of it , I'm sure , but they're also passionate and they see a couple of things that maybe you don't .

So how do you transition from active and in the business to more of a chairman role .

And the story is my wife retired about a year after I started FiveStream and when she retired she started poking at me . Remember all those things we're going to go do in our golden years ? You know , and , like I said , I've been married almost 48 years now , so I like it .

And to appease her , because I'm in the grind man , you know , you know how it is , and everybody who's out there today probably knows how it is in the logistics transportation space , you're working , working , working , working . And I finally decided that yeah

, I want to take a different course . And so I found people to take it over and yet have me become more of an advisor . So I wasn't totally out of it , but I had the seed to control .

They make the decisions now , and that was hard because I was the one making all the decisions until that time , and that's a different position to be in but I've transitioned . But you know what's funny , nate , is when I gave that up and I say , well , I kind of tried retirement but I flunked .

I was three months away from the day-to-day and I'm playing some golf and tennis and maybe a little pickleball and maybe a little banjo , but there's no purpose in that . And so I'm a guy who's got to have some purpose .

And so I got contacted by Vistage , which is the world's leading , largest business leader peer group organization , and they wanted to have another group formed in Kansas City and thought I'd be a good candidate to lead that . I saw a purpose there .

And now that's what I'm doing and I love it because I'm still involved in the business world , not necessarily totally transportation , logistics . I'm getting to learn so much from all other types of leaders and what they face and challenge all the time , so I really , really enjoy that . Is business business at the end of the day ? Does it not matter ?

Or is having unique industry insight an advantage ? How do you think about what's universal and what's not ? I had a five-star general .

Come talk to my leadership group and I said , okay , tell me the difference between leading in the military versus leading in public or private company , and he says leadership of people is all the same and that's what we're really doing . We're leading people and they handle the processes and they handle the processes .

But when you can inspire people and get them all in the same line to do the same thing for a common purpose , that's what really leadership is all about . Yeah , and as I coach these leaders , I say look , I got an aerospace manufacturing leader .

I don't know anything about aerospace manufacturing , I don't need to , but he faces some of the same challenges , be it marketing , be it gosh . How do I think about AI ?

So I come into this and I'm the visionary and I now have a board of directors because we raised some capital . The capital sources were the board . Now I got to report to them . I've never done that before and I've got 30 people . Never led that before and I made a ton of mistakes . Never led that before and I made a ton of mistakes .

She doesn't want to hear that , and there are things you can't share with your team . You know , even though you might call them family and team , they've got their agenda and I've got mine , and so , yeah , I reflect back and go . It's always better , and that's why I encourage any leader to be part of another group , something bigger .

You got to vent and you've got to constantly be learning . I believe leaders are lifetime learners and they're curious . And well , you're going to learn a lot from other people , and especially

if they're in a similar role not industry , but industry too but if they're in another role , you're going to learn a lot .

So attach yourself to others , be it mentors , be it coaches , be it peer groups , mastermind group , I don't care what you call it but when you're attached to other people , it's going to make you a better person going to make you a better leader .

I want to pass on the knowledge that I've gleaned as part of the next chapter of finding that purpose that you mentioned .

They have this restaurant that sold cashew chicken . I'd say it's a Chinese dish , but it really isn't . It's just little fried chicken nuggets with an oyster gravy and some cashews and onions on it and over rice . But very popular . I mean very popular . It was probably one every mile you went .

Well , I grew up 100 miles down the road in a little town called Rolla . We didn't have that there . So my roommate and I decided well , we're going to start this restaurant in Rolla , we'll just hire a manager and we'll just collect the checks . And you can imagine how it ended . And it did end that way .

And then five years later I say , hey , I'm in the trucking industry , I know trucking , I'm going to start a trucking company and that didn't end well . And so I tell people today just because you like to cook doesn't mean you should start a restaurant Just because you like working with grass and flowers , don't start a landscaping company .

So what happened was later in my career , after I learned these really hard and expensive lessons , I got asked to speak at a logistics conference . I said what would you like me to talk on ? Don't care . And so I thought , okay , I want to reflect and do something creative .

And so I started reflecting on my career and what's happening in the industry , with 3PLs coming out and all this . And that was the genesis of me discovering the real secret to organic growth . And what I did ?

I studied Amazon and Netflix and Uber and I came up with the common formula that they use , and my first book was called the Unconventional Thinking of Dominant Companies , and it's 100% about those monsters that shot to the top , beat their competition very quickly became unicorns and a few local Kansas City companies that I think do the same thing , and they all use

this formula . They don't talk about it . I don't even know if they're really aware of it , but the same thing , and they all use this formula . They don't talk about it . I don't even know if they're really aware of it , but they do this .

And so in the second book Stop the Hassle I decided to write that book about what every company should be doing , both from a what I call product point of view and a cultural point of view , and real quickly . It's this . I believe you and I , and everybody listening to this , are buyers . Now , we may not be professional buyers , but we buy things every day .

We make a buying decision and I believe there's a formula , a psychology that we use , and it involves we're looking for convenience , we want to save time , effort , we want it simple and easy . When I pull off the interstate for gas , it's always 319.9 at every station at that interchange .

Well , am I going to go left across the interchange through a couple lights to the gas station on the left or am I going to stay on the right-hand side so I can get back ? I'm going to do that because it saves me time and effort . That's a natural thing tendency we have . I want simple , I want easy , I don't want a more complex life .

So when we're out looking , we want that convenience . We want a competitive price . We don't necessarily want lowest price all the time , but we're trying to save money . But what we really want is transparency , and this goes back to LTL . I want to know what it's going to cost before I make that purchase decision .

That's why I like TMSs now , because I can tell exactly what my cost should be . But we like that transparency . That's why we don't like working with lawyers . We know it's $300 an hour but we never know how many hours the airlines oh what $200 charge . I didn't know . Oh , it's in the fine print .

I was in Vegas last weekend and my $125 room a night had a $49 resort fee . What's that ? Oh , you didn't . You know , that's in the fine print . I don't like fine print . Okay , so that transparency . Third , we like a great user experience , both in the buying process and the product itself . I want to be treated like I'm their only customer .

If I have questions , I want them answered . I really don't want to talk to a bot . I want to talk to a human , because who knows where my questions are going to go and I've had too much frustration with bots taking me time and effort . But the product if it's a merchandise , I want durability , I want style , I want efficiency .

If I'm dealing with a professional , you know , I want courteousness , professionalism . I want , you know , I like uniforms . If I'm going into a retail store , I like bright lights , clean , organized . That all creates great user experience . And then fourth is trust . When we make a buying decision , we buyers have in our mind what it is we're going to get .

That's our experience , especially true if there's a brand promise , like when it absolutely positively has to be there overnight . Well , guess what ? I expect it to be there overnight . That's your brand promise , but we have this expectation and we don't get it . Now I can't trust them ever again .

Okay , and I'm sure , in logistics , when somebody's late with a shipment or damages a shipment , how do I trust them going forward ? Do they have a guarantee ? What kind of guarantee ? Are there warranties ? Are there free returns ? Are there testimonials where my peers are telling me , yeah , I had a great experience , bad experience ?

So bottom line is , when you can do all four of those convenience , transparent , competitive pricing , great buying and user experience and trust I as a buyer don't have any excuses not to buy from you .

But the problem is most companies have some sort of trade-off , a conscious trade-off , and I use Walmart Walmart , you know , everyday low prices , rollback America , but I hope you like checking yourself out . I don't find that a particularly appealing experience .

They're not maybe as well lit , not as well organized as , say , a Target , right , I think there's just a little different user experience . Dollar stores pretty cheap stuff , but oh my God , there might be one person working there and they don't have storerooms . It's all cluttery , it's a nightmare . Jiffy Lube .

Their tradeoff is we're going to change our oil in 20 minutes , but it's going to come at a price . I can do it at Walmart for half the price twice the time , and so I believe they have these conscious tradeoffs . When you do that , you now have to appeal to somebody whose personal value system matches what you offer .

Okay , now I can't tell you what yours is , nate , but my personal value system is time . I will pay a premium if you save me time . I believe time is our most precious commodity , not money . I can go to my financial planner and my banking accounts , tell you how much money I have .

I can't tell you how much time I've got , so I believe time is our most precious . So that's how I make my decision . I've got a relative lives in a small town , about 15,000 . There's two grocery stores and a Walmart .

She clips coupons every week and goes to all three to buy the sales and I'm going to guess she might save $20 , $25 a week , but it takes her two , two and a half hours . I'm not doing that . My time is more valuable , but that's her personal value system is money . I've got a friend who will only fly first class .

They like that experience , okay , so we all have our personal value systems , but I claim that Amazon , uber , netflix they've used this formula to where hey , I don't have a excuse not to buy from them . So that's what I preach in my book . And the cultural side of that is this we all have competitors . Or said another way , a buyer has alternatives .

Do I wash my own car or do I go to the car wash ? Now , do I go to the car wash where I'm spraying it myself , or do I go through the drive-thru ? Okay , so you know which one of those do I do ? And so those alternatives , those competitors , need to know about each other . And I joke about this . I'm a big Kansas City Chiefs fan .

I go listen , andy Reid doesn't show up on a Sunday morning and go , let's see who we play in this week . And what do they like to do ? Do they run the ball ? Do they pass the ball ? What about defense ? Are they playing zone ? No , they study their competition . So I claim that every company should have an R&D function . Now that sounds funny .

Not a pharmaceutical or scientific company , but R&D . I need you to be researching the alternative that a buyer has . How do you stack up from a convenience standpoint , how much time , effort , simple , easy . From a price standpoint , from a transparency , from a user experience , from a guarantee or trust ?

And if you don't stack up , be working on that because that's the excuse your buyers are using . Well , I don't go there because it's just not a good experience . I don't get waited on . It takes too much time and too much effort or they're just priced high . You get these buyer issues .

So study your competition and constantly be working on that , because if you don't , that's where startups come to play . 3pls came to play because it was too hard to figure out these LTL prices and rules . It's too hard , too much time . 3pls said oh , we'll make it easier .

You want access to a TMS where you can rate , shop and create your own bills of lading and you just tell us what you need and we'll send a dry van or a flatbed or a free . Okay , make it easy . That's how that 3PL industry . So if you don't pay attention to what your buyers are looking for . You don't pay attention to what your competitors are doing .

You're going to be the blockbuster and they're going to be the Netflix , or a Netflix is going to show up and say we found your weakness and we're going to exploit that . Well , that's a masterclass right there you just .

But there is also an opportunity to get on the balcony and instead of just asking , like , how should we be playing this game ? It's , is this even the right game to be playing in the first place ?

Never , it was always . Well , here's our revenue . What was the budget ? Oh , we're beating budget . We're losing budget . Okay , now here's our expenses oh , we're over in labor . We're going to have to do something about that . Now let's talk about our IT project . Me , me , me , we , we , we .

One of my biggest heroes is Jeff Bezos , and , if anybody's looking for a really good book , the Everything Store is an awesome book and it's the Amazon story . When I started FreightProcom in 1999 , Jeff had already started Amazon and he was a villain . He was a bumbling fool .

I think he even made Time Magazine because he was such an idiot , Burning cash left and right , refusing to change his business model , and Wall Street was just castigizing him , saying what's he doing ? Well , Jeff believes in putting the customer at the center of his universe and working everything backward .

Matter of fact , their number one leadership principles are leaders need to obsess about the customers , not just care obsess . Jeff's whole theory was if we satisfy the customer , take care of the customer , everything else will fall in place . Okay , and I believe that .

I believe that I used to watch the show the Profit with Marcus Limonis and he would go in and research a company and it was always people , process and product . I also believe purpose is another P .

That's important , but that's how he would evaluate and I tell people look , if the product isn't right meaning customer-centric , with all the four criteria if the product isn't right , I'm not sure it matters about your people and your process . So if the product is right and it's meeting the needs of the buyer , then it's probably going to work .

Then go work on your people and your process , but focus on what the buyer is looking for . Don't start that restaurant because you like to cook . If you're thinking about starting a company , start here . Go find a business or an industry in your neighborhood , I don't care . That has a weakness . They're not very convenient .

They don't give a good user experience , they're priced too high . I can't trust them . They don't have guarantees . That's a weakness you can leverage . That's what I preach now .

reminded of it . So how will you know when you're done , when you have met the purpose that you're seeking ?

Those first two companies I failed , and I've failed more than that , and so my goal in life now is do anything I can to help anybody else from failing . You know , call it servant leadership or whatever , but I don't think I'll ever be done at that . I'm not the kind of guy to sit on the porch and watch the world go by .

I got to be involved in something , and the more I can help anybody else , the better I feel about it .

Where can people reach out to you or where can they find out more about what you're doing and what you're writing ?

I'm working on an online course so that people can learn this formula and how it applies to them . So that's how they can find me and I'm happy to help anybody I can .

To learn more about the show and connect with the growing community of entrepreneurs , visit logisticsfounderscom . And , of course , thank you to all the founders who trust us to share their stories .