Engineers & Entrepreneurs with Seth Patin

And sometimes the stories are a straight line Somebody has an idea and they launch a business and they have success , or they don't have success , and the conclusion is somewhat obvious in hindsight . And then for other folks it is a meandering road and there's never a ton of certainty about where it's going to go .

And occasionally there's a founder who has done all of those things , and that's why this week I'm really excited to get to introduce Seth Patton . He's a CEO and founder of LogistaView , but he's also founded and exited and shut down other companies before . So we're going to go on a meandering journey today and see where it leads .

Good morning , how are you Doing ? Great , nate .

We help automate decisions about work management , work distribution , who should get what when , where , etc . And then we also optimize processes and control end-user experience with kind of next-gen workforce tech .

So one of our cool things that we do is we put smart glasses on workers and give them the ability to capture data they couldn't otherwise capture , get instructions they couldn't otherwise get , and then use that data to feedback automation of what to do next , basically , next best decision making about what should I do to make sure I'm doing the right work at the

right time automatically across all of my operations .

Partly because of my background in warehouse management software , you very quickly making progress into manufacturing as well , particularly integrated manufacturing where you have potentially an assembly process , like automotive pre-assembly , for example , is one of our customers .

Those are the kinds of things that we're trying to kind of help connect the dots and automate the flow of work in an operation in some pretty innovative ways .

They operate somewhat independently and they become their own society , almost . To add in this layer of intelligent planning around all of that , that's every head of logistics and fulfillment and warehouse managers dream .

Now , for those of you who've never heard that name Blue Yonder I worked basically for almost my entire career now in Blue Yonder , red Prairie , jda , warehouse management software . At a very young age I really got introduced to WMS After I left Red Prairie pretty early , went to go work for a customer .

Then I got to feel the customer side of WMS which is cool Went into consulting and I've really been in consulting for nearly 15 years now . Just recently exited . My consulting firm , exologix . Logistics of you came out of all of that . I love the way you describe it Where's my stuff ? You're so right .

Wms is all about where's my stuff , but it's so not about who is working on my stuff . How should they work on my stuff , when should they work on my stuff and where should they work on my stuff ? Really , in implementing WMSs and customizing WMSs over and over and over again to deal with some of the people problems .

It's like WMS is really good at tracking data . I was like there's got to be a better way to really build a system that's focused first on people and process . Obviously , the data is super important . It's table stakes . At this point , if you think about where the WMS industry came up , it was like back in the 90s .

You really wanted to know that if you put something into an online glorified spreadsheet that stayed there Transactional processing and stuff that was really cool , it was critical , but by now everyone has that . That's normal . The question becomes now how do I take all that data and make it intuitive for a workforce ?

How do I take all that data and make it intuitive for a management team ? How do I let the management team be focused on people instead of spreadsheets and task assignments and stuff like that ? That's all really . You want to talk about things that are non-human . Ai can make those decisions .

It can't go have a conversation and say , nate , how are you doing today , man ? That's the thing that our managers need to be empowered to do . That was how the gist of you started is like we've got to find a better way to do this .

you get . I started getting only a couple of years in . Like , you know , first it was like a couple of times a year . You know , hey , we're investors , we're interested in your company , and I didn't really think much of it .

And then , like , as it goes and you kind of build a better name and a reputation , all of a sudden you get like 20 of them a week .

It eventually becomes like this overload where you're like , my goodness , I don't know which one of these people if I even wanted to do this who's the right , like as a founder , when you own the culture of a company , when you're like trying to do right by the team but you're also trying to do right by yourself .

It's like you've got to find almost this perfect combination of the two .

It may be selling for me anyway really hard , because I was like I've got to find the right partner that I believe in my heart will take care of the people who have helped me build this and like , hey , like I'm walking away theoretically with the big financial win , there's a bit of guilt in that . Honestly , you know you feel like you're kind of .

You know I didn't want to throw me a quote unquote , throw people in the wolves .

And so as logistic you grew and became more successful , more capable of kind of standing on its own , you know it became clear that I needed to do that If logistic was going to be successful , I had to do that , I had to be able to focus , and so I , thankfully , over the I mean it took over a year One of the groups that had reached out to me ended up

being a great , what I felt was a great fit . And they're another blue yonder , you know , partner in a large consulting firm called Spinnaker SCA . Working with them I felt like I had , you know , the right partner . Like I said , it still took a lot of time but it felt right and that was when I finally was like okay , I can let go now .

Who did you talk to when you were weighing those criteria and were there late nights in the kitchen , like , should we do this , or this feels right , or if this feels wrong ? I met somebody they want to make an offer , but I just don't feel right about it . How did you untangle that ?

The pandemic definitely , you know , was a hit . That was really hard because , honestly , for the better part of two and a half years , you know , we were struggling to find our footing , like to reestablish the footing .

It's almost like this wave swept under us and just kind of wiped out all the beach underneath us and we're like stumbling around trying to figure it out . You know we still had great customers , we still had a great team . It was this realization for me that I didn't have , up to that point , we had been able to grow fast enough and generally be .

You know , we had the right financial partners , the right , you know , banking and debt relationships and stuff like that , like I could grow the company and I felt like I was doing it the right level of service as a founder , as a shareholder , as a financier , et cetera , got to this point where I thought there's no way I can keep both of these companies going

at the same time . I have to pick one or the other and then if I do that , I want to make sure that you know , when I hand off the one , that it's going to continue to be successful . So my you know certainly my wife and I talked about it a lot , that we were .

It was pretty easy for us to say , you know , this is the right decision to make because we do the financial impacts of you know , could we grow axologics ? Could we invest in axologics ? Could we grow logistic ? Could we invest in logistic ? Could we get , you know , capital partners for one or the other ?

When we had both on our balance she both on my whole focus thing is so important to investors . The biggest factor of all was , you know , I asked a lot of peers . You know I'm part of a Vistage peer group here in the Raleigh Triangle area . You know a lot of folks in that group had sold companies , had , you know , founded multiple companies .

I got a lot of really great perspectives there , kind of saying you know , here's what to expect . I also had a couple of friends who I've , you know , kind of shared the journey with a little bit , who said hey look , it's about that time you should think about this . It wasn't an easy decision , that's for sure .

In fact , it was also not an easy decision because we weren't we weren't actually hitting our numbers . I was really hoping to grow faster and we weren't growing as fast as I wanted to . So I was also trying to be as honest as possible with the acquirer about that .

So it was just some interesting processes and in the end , I feel pretty good about the outcome . You know , it's one of those things where you have to look back and go , okay , was this a bad idea ? Answer is absolutely not . It was the right thing to do .

You also mentioned , you know , belonging to a peer group . What did you find , or what do you find , to be the most valuable about not doing entrepreneurship on your own ?

Your employees are economically dependent on you and what's worse is , entrepreneurship generally involves you know the whole joke . It's like you know your friends and family are like your initial supporters , they're your initial financiers , etc . It's like you build this friends and family .

Your friends and family end up working for you , which is totally the case for me . So I have all these different things where it's like , okay , I'm scared that we can't make payroll next week . That is a terrible thing to tell one of your team members . You know you can't have that conversation with them . Yeah , and I joined my peer group .

Actually , I joined Vistage very early in my Axiologics experience was 2015 . Actually , at the urging of a very good friend of mine who runs a business that is phenomenally more successful than mine . He said you will want to have a sounding board of people who aren't going to sugarcoat their responses .

They're not going to tell you what they think you want to hear , because if all you ever get is what you want to hear , the biggest value of having a peer group is that you recognize that they're unknown . Unknowns . That was totally my case . Like as Axiologics was growing , I'm like holy cow .

This thing is actually like going really well , what do I need to do next" . And joining a business was super helpful for that . And then , as you run into hard times , or even when you have opportunities , you also don't want to . Hey , we're looking at acquiring something , or we're looking at making this huge investment , we're looking at growing the team by X .

Hey , I know I need to level up one part of my operation . I think that means I'm going to need to move some people on the bus . All those conversations are really hard to have if you're doing it alone .

It is a line , but it's very hard to define because you have to have a high degree of self-confidence , complete faith about what you're building , while simultaneously not having all of the answers . The folks that I enjoy spending the most amount of time with are the ones who realize hey , this is complicated and I don't have all the answers .

I'd rather take the advice and counsel of people who've been where I am before , are willing to hear , because a lot of people aren't willing to hear , especially if you've had success . Also , the success bias is so dangerous . Everything I've touched has turned to gold . That must mean it's me .

What I found is interesting is even my journey . I started off in my business group , for example , and there were a lot of places that I was totally open to feedback , but there were also some places that I was like , okay , well , that's not what I'm trying to learn right now and trying to solve this problem .

I had multiple times where people in the group are like you need to be open up to this idea first and that will make you able to get to the next step . I'm like thinking to myself well , I don't need to think about that right now , I need to think about the next thing . And they're like no , you're getting ahead of yourself .

Slow down and take the journey . Don't try to skip the steps . Like you said , the mightiest touch doesn't work the way you think it does the outcome . If you skip the steps , the outcome can be not nearly as good as what you were hoping for , and sometimes it can still be positive . But even in the positivity , you're looking at it going well .

I see problems . I see things that needed to be addressed a while ago , and I think entrepreneurs love to charge forward , but sometimes skipping steps is actually our biggest weakness and certainly I've done that a number of times and I had to go back and put my tail between my legs and say , yeah , you guys are right , I've got to solve this problem .

How would you recommend I do this and then kind of have to have that hard conversation with yourself , for it's like , okay , I've been successful to a point , but I mean , everyone can learn from everybody else . Quite honestly , there's no such thing as someone I can't learn something from .

The annoying part about that education style is that life gives you the test before you have the opportunity to study , unlike a traditional education where you learn the material and then you get tested on the material when you're founding a business and you're kind of doing the entrepreneur path . There's so many things about joining the side .

Even having an MBA , you can learn all you want to in an educational setting . In an academic setting . It doesn't prepare you for the realities of the real world . The real world is not predictable . My journey has very much been this roller coaster .

I literally have you asked me at the beginning of the discussion like , hey , how are you doing , how are you feeling ? And I've said many times on the same day I can be way up like , oh man , this is going great . And then one email comes in and you're like , oh , we have this crash at the bottom of the roller coaster .

There's a lot of times where you have to just really will yourself to not jump off . My entire journey has been okay , really , really great . And then the problem happens , the failure happens . You disappoint a customer , you have a terrible conversation with an employee .

You say something you shouldn't have said , or maybe you don't say something you should have said and you kind of have to spend a lot of time thinking about how you want to be like , what you want to be as a leader , and then work very hard to kind of be that and become that , and it comes through trial and error .

I personally don't believe anybody is a natural born leader . I believe certainly you have people have traits that make them more prone to being a leader or , more naturally , led towards that . Leadership is something that you don't get taught . It's something you burn and it's something you learn primarily through experience .

People follow you not because of what you learned in class . They get on board with you because you can communicate a vision and you can tell people you know we're going someplace together . And then every step of the way , especially if you're like me , you're like constantly asking yourself the question well crap , why are these people following me ?

Am I the right person for this ? Like you know that whole imposter syndrome thing , like I've struggled with that year in , year out and I've had to actually put a lot of effort into to think through and go okay , I'm not perfect and I'm okay with that , but I am definitely the right person to be doing what I'm doing right now and be okay with the failure .

My rule of thumb is you know , I'm okay with doing something stupid once . I just need to make sure I don't do something stupid , the same stupid thing twice .

pastor at a church that he's been at in rural Northern Illinois for over 30 years now . You know he hasn't founded businesses . Well , I guess he technically has , because insurance agents are independent .

I mean , he's gone through a whole different list of roles and you know , and companies and he's kind of built himself up Then incredibly helpful for me and you know , and building really both Axiologic family and the distiview .

He's always been a servant leader and , you know , not in the sense of being an entrepreneur but just in the sense of , like you know , as a pastor wanting to help the community .

As a member of our team wanting to help the team , I learned a lot of good things about work ethic and , you know , and servant leadership from him really kind of starting at a young age . Over the course of my career I've had a lot of really great business leaders as well .

One of my first leaders at when I was working at Take 2 Interactive or Jack of All Games , got by the name of Eric Clark , who was like the VP of IT in that area .

I was like a low level analyst , but he gave me the space to kind of expand my horizons , to learn and to be part of things that normally like as a low level analyst , you're not really part of , but by kind of introducing , you know , being open to introducing and allowing me to participate in those broader discussions , I learned so much so fast .

It's like drinking from a fire hose and those things . I mean my education , honestly . Msoe was great as well . I had a few professors who were always saying think about the big picture , don't just focus on the small things , think about the big picture .

That mindset , that education kind of the whole process from you know , kind of youth up , I was always trying to understand why . That seeking not just to do but to understand why , I think was a big part and has been a big part of , you know , my growth trajectory over the course of time .

The vast majority of the time , it is a parent and a senior professional that invested in them when they were young . I'm realizing , as we've been talking , how parallel some of our experiences have been . One I went to college in Wisconsin . Two my dad is a pastor .

Three a huge influence in my life , of course , and somebody I've learned a ton from , but my mentor

. Professionally , I started at CH Robinson . I was in my mid-20s and got invited to a PGA event that was held in Minneapolis . I'd never been to a work event like that before and got to go to this fancy dinner where our CEO was there .

I sat down next to this gentleman who was , you know , 25 years older than me , and we just started talking and he showed a real interest in what I was doing . We had a great time , we laughed like idiots and the next day I learned that he was the senior vice president . I didn't even know who he was . That was easily 19 years ago , 18 years ago .

He is still in my life to this day . He's retired and we have dinner a couple of times a year . He's always asking me what's going on in my life . He's had a lot of difficulty .

He lost his wife earlier this year , and yet every single time that I talk to him , he always wants to put the focus on me and support me and ask me you know , what are you struggling with right now ? What are you stuck on ? And then he helps me unlock that inner barrier inside of me that's holding me back .

To have people like that in your life is almost an unfair advantage . It is such a superpower , and so I just wanted to express my own gratitude to Mark , if he's listening , because he's had that impact in my life .

Now that you are where you are , how do you cascade that out and down to other people and the next generation perhaps , or even just people in the industry ? How do you make somebody else better ?

That's the why behind it all , and so I personally love participating in peer groups . It doesn't matter what stage of company you are , it doesn't matter what type of business you are .

One of the things I love about Vistage has been that it's amazing how many problems have no industry specification at all , like people and team dynamic problems , business model problems , like at the end of the day , you've got to treat your people well , you've got to build a product that's good enough to sell and you've got to sell it for a price that's higher

than what takes to make it . That's true , no matter what and the problems . They have dependencies that are unique to your business , but ultimately , everybody can weigh in , and so some of the things that I do now is I do participate in peer groups .

If I have an opportunity to talk to somebody who's looking like , for example , I think next month I'm going to be doing a panel on lower-mid market services from exit events , because I've been through the rigmarole , done the PE due diligence cycle , and that's a place where at least I have the ability to provide some context and maybe give some people a feeling

for what to expect or maybe give them a recommendation for what to look into or double check for , et cetera . Wherever I can do that , I do . If everything goes the way I want it to , I have high hopes of being able to contribute , from a philanthropy and time perspective , to education of the next generation , particularly of entrepreneur engineers .

I'm an engineer by education , I'm an entrepreneur by choice and I've learned that those two things don't always combine very well , and so my goal if I can make an impact and help engineers be better entrepreneurs from the start , I will have achieved some purpose that I feel good about .

Each of them comes in to starting a business with a different set of experiences and their own paradigm and their own weaknesses . It's becoming easier and easier for me to spot the opportunity for entrepreneurs . Engineers typically struggle with sales and marketing .

They love the way that the watch gets built , sometimes to the detriment of just telling someone what time it is .

Nobody's going to buy a product that they have never heard of . But I always love to remind you . There are young engineering entrepreneurs , as well as even my own product development team to a certain extent . Guys , you got to remember engineering without sales is nothing more than an expensive hobby . As an engineer , you're like oh , I built something amazing .

It's going to sell itself and that is the most ridiculous BS ever . We honestly believe in the beginning that that's what's going to happen , and you don't realize how important go-to-market strategy is and how important getting the right sales leader who isn't you , by the way , as an entrepreneur .

If you're an engineer , don't be the sales leader Then , building that team . You have to complement yourself with the people who know how to do the things that you're not naturally good at . It is honestly the same way for the sales entrepreneur . If you sell a vision that isn't deliverable , that's equally as bad .

We see a lot of that in the industry , with companies that have figureheads that are very promotional and get a lot of interest and sign up a lot of customers , but then if they haven't built the underlying infrastructure once the customer has signed up and problems start to manifest are they aren't able to resolve them quickly or professionally , sometimes even , and

they lose brand equity .

Honestly , there's a lot of news about it right now , and you're not going to lie , there's part of you as an entrepreneur . It's like oh man , they raised $100 million . What I could do with $100 million . At the same time , though , you look at it and you go well , the playbook was definitely not a long-term value playbook . It was a short-term value playbook .

My focus has always been long-term value . I don't want to build something that's like a flash in the pan .

Not necessarily saying that quick wins are a bad thing by any stretch of imagination , but I think , as an engineer too , my focus has always been well , if I'm going to build something , I'm going to build something good , and I'm going to build something that helps my customers make a difference for a long period of time .

And honestly I feel pretty good about where we are on that journey right now , but there's so plenty of things that we have to get right before I see the big win that I'm eventually hoping for .

I mean , that's why this show exists in the very first place was to counteract the buzz machine that's out there of the venture backed , sometimes flashes in the pan , and yet companies like yours will still be plugging along adding value . You're still gonna be here in 10 years .

Logistics of you is hopefully gonna be here in 25 years or 30 years , whether you're at that point still a part of it or not .

But a great way to wrap this conversation up is you've had a great story to get here and we obviously didn't even have enough time to unpack some of the other experiences that you've had , as in companies that you've started being able to stay grounded despite the waves that are gonna crash against you as an entrepreneur , and stay focused and keep adding value and

doing it in a people-centric way . That's a good way to spend a life .

Customers love it , employees love it and Seth honestly tried to do right by everybody .

You hear a lot of stories about you mentioned some of the industry titans of the last 20 , 30 years and certainly those people are admirable , but a lot of times there's trade-offs and so I think as an entrepreneur , you kind of have to decide what it is that you want to be known for , what's most important , and then prioritize those degrees of importance to

produce the end result that you're looking for .

And , of course , thank you to all the founders who trust us to share their stories .