Balancing Act with Tim Judge

We've been on a run lately of talking to a lot of founders in the supply chain world that have started knowledge businesses and consulting groups and then that spreads into technology and operations and leadership and people and organizational behavior and development and all of those things .

It's been on my mind a lot lately because it's the perfect intersection of how a business actually functions in supply chain when you get the people and the technology and all of those things mixed together , and I find it very fertile ground for intellectual conversations on how people get work done in this industry .

And so I'm going to stay right on that theme this week and we're going to go deep with Tim Judge , who is the CEO and founder of Agilytics , a supply chain and logistics and technology consulting firm . Tim , good morning , Welcome to the show . How are you today ?

Wow , like I said earlier , I don't know what's behind door number two , but I'm always willing to open it and find out . And in our case , we have a new friendship and you're part of our founder group , ballast , and now we're getting to offer some value and help spread the word about what you've been building by going into your backstory .

So we really focus on helping leaders make better decisions across the supply chain by simplifying all of the different data challenges that they may have .

From an execution perspective , that one of the most common questions from CIOs , chief supply chain officers , vp of operations at the time where why don't any of my reports look the same Like ? Why doesn't this number match what is on this ? And it amazed me .

You know you're talking some of the brightest supply chain people probably in the country spending hours in Excel trying to fix formulas , yelling at people to get the right data , waiting on data , pulling their hair out , making gut decisions because they don't have the right data to make it .

So it became pretty clear that this was a big enough problem that needed to be solved and I didn't see it in the market that it was being solved well . So that kind of you know 10 years ago kind of launched the Agilitics journey , if you will .

We shouldn't . 10 should be here's what just happened , because I have clear insights into it and and 70% should be . How am I interpreting and forecasting , based on those insights , about where we need to go next ?

And you don't need my validation that your business is necessary in the supply chain , but I feel that personally , on a daily level , as a supply chain executive myself , and so , but that that's in 2024 , let's go back to 2014 . You've decided that this is what you want to do and you're a bootstrapper , which all the respect in the world for for doing that .

So how did you first ? How much , how much money did you have to put in to get it started and how long did you go before you were able to take a paycheck ?

But $2,500 was officially what I put up , probably just within my checking account and no real plan initially to take a paycheck , where I figured I could probably go a couple months with the hope to have a couple customers you know ready to go out of the gate , just based on need you know didn't have any conversations .

One area that I was a little bit naive about was non-competes and how they work and who I can talk to . And you know and I think that those you know don't want to go down the non-compete rabbit hole . But there's reasons , they're in place , but for it it did make it a little bit difficult .

Out of the out of the gate in the first year is essentially everybody that I talked to for the last 12 months .

I can't really try to talk to them about doing business with Agilitics , um , but lucky enough , we got our first customer probably within three weeks of starting the company , which is a genuine parts company right here in Atlanta on a pretty large-scale project . So that was really kind of the first .

You know kind of okay , now we're okay and lucky enough that came only three weeks into launch . And then from there , obviously the first year is probably definitely a step back as far as normal pay and really just want to put it back into the business and higher up .

And then I would say after maybe first 18 months , year and a half , then I was at least back to normal , normal lifestyle pay . You know decent , decent profitability off of the company and we kept up . You know a 30 to 40% growth year over year . For you know the first six or seven years you know hit the ink 5,000 , three times Um .

and so it's a less cash intensive business model . Intensive business model it sometimes comes at the expense of a lower valuation , if you ever hope to exit , because the intellectual property is , or the secret sauce is often you or it's the team , and it's not a piece of software that you can sell for you know 20x revenue .

But so it's a strategic choice to go down that path and then often that leads to new products or services that can emerge once you learn your customers pain points . So do you have today like a technology offering , or is that something that you contemplate as another step in the business's future ?

You know all the challenges that come from you know from growing a business , from you know from growing a business . And then you know in and around COVID , you know COVID hits . You know I think three out of our five big you know biggest projects got put immediately on hold , you know , for COVID .

So getting through that and then , you know , really focused , gave us a lot of good opportunities to really have some extra time to focus on things , lot of good opportunities to really have some extra time to focus on things . And one of those things was exactly that is hey , all of this project is successful project work we've done over almost a decade .

You know how do we put that into something that's a little bit more repeatable for customers to start getting value quickly , rather than reinventing the wheel for every customer every time . And it really gave us a chance to step back . And then 2021 was kind of a boom year . It was an excellent year for us .

You know demand came kind of roaring back in the tail half of 2021 into 2022 . And there was a lot of interest in you know , in our company and the success that we've had . But you hit the nail on the head .

Then you start thinking , hey , if you're ever part of a company , you know how reliant is the organization on on me , how , how you know what , what does a commitment look like for joining a new organization from you know , a large , largest large consulting company kind of acquiring a smaller one , um , and and really a lot of the advice from you know , from my

network and and leaders , uh , like yourself , nate , was you guys really need to focus into turning this into um , you know , into a platform , um , and then that's what we did and we just kind of went full , you know , full in on the the sas uh , sas platform and technology , um , and we still , you know we still help with , with consulting and services projects ,

but , um , but full in on the SaaS platform and technology and we still help with consulting and services projects , but really kind of the service and seeing the value that customers are able to get out of kind of a turnkey analytics solution for supply chain has certainly been our focus and massive investments in really trying to go fast and build that out as well

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strategy and in year 10 , we're going to sell the business for $100 million , and life and business just don't seem to work that way . There's so much more variability and chance involved . Nobody could have predicted COVID and the bust to boom that it became .

For a lot of businesses it was like they were hours away from going out of business and then PPP loans came in and breathed new life into the company and then a bunch of investments were made , and now that has opened up all these additional doors .

A bunch of investments were made and now that has opened up all these additional doors , and so I used to think that entrepreneurs just had a higher tolerance for risk , and that may be true , but I've shifted my thinking a little bit on it that I believe entrepreneurs are open , perhaps more open to novelty and new experiences and unknown like , maybe more willing

to travel to a foreign country by themselves , without an agenda , without a itinerary , just see what happens . I'm going to get to Thailand and be there for a week and see what happens , and it's just , it's maybe more experimentation than it is . Determination , and it's just , it's maybe more experimentation than it is determination .

that very well . You know , I always think back to , like Tony Robbins , you know seven . You know human needs right , and one is uncertainty , novelty , right , and one is certainty . You kind of need a balance of both . But if you had certainty all day , every day , what's going to happen , you're going to get bored .

So having some level of uncertainty and novelty is important . But no , I couldn't agree more . I think a lot of entrepreneurs are probably towards the other end of the scale of wanting that kind of that novelty , and I know you've talked about it on your podcast before .

It's hard to stay away from kind of the shiny object syndrome , if you will , because you know , if you have ideas , you see a need you want to grab , you know , and things take time . Crap , you know , and things take time .

But I do truly believe that the cure for that is surrounding yourself with an amazing team , that love to implement , that love to execute , that love to get into the weeds and do the details in and out , and pairing yourself with those types of team members really , really balances it well .

But one of the things that it really focuses on is making sure you have right person , right seat , and certain people love to , you know , to take certain roles that they really shine on and really aligning what needs to be done and starting there and then making sure we have , you know , we put the right people in the right seat , both from a skill set

perspective , but then also what they want to do . And I can't tell you how many times we , you know , we may have had a team member who is , you know , super sharp , great work , ethic , growth , mindset , all the things that we look for , but just were not in the right activity and they just didn't get , you know , have the passion out of it .

And one of the lessons that I've learned is I , even though I see someone that's good at something , doesn't mean that that's what they want to do , and I struggle with that because I was seeing this person is the best consultant I've ever seen and I can put them in front of every customer .

But if they like to code and they don't like to be in front of a customer doing consulting , then that's not a good fit .

So making sure that we have that right person in the right seat but then also that they enjoy and that's the role that they truly want to be , then I know it kind of danced around your question , but specifically where that's come together .

I think in implementing our EOS and kind of seeing just how the team comes together around specific goals , and where that shines is we just had a major implementation with a big apparel company and just really had all the team come together company and , you know , just really had all the team come together .

So the project managers making sure we're on track , the design leads making sure everything met , you know specifications , the , you know the individual consultants are making sure that the users are getting what they need . And then the developers and engineers are making sure that everything's , you know , flowing , flowing right . So that's so .

It's always the best indication that all those different pieces came together for a successful go live for the customer .

They look out into the future and imagine things that haven't been done before , and they're not necessarily great at executing on those things all the time , but they have a nose for opportunities that make money and they're really passionate about them and they can rally people around that idea and get them working in that direction .

They typically benefit the most by having somebody in the number two seat who's an integrator and can translate those ideas and that vision and break it down into steps and pieces that other people can implement , preferably people who really like building things one step at a time .

They're more methodical in nature , typically more operations focus , and when you get that mix right , it's called . Rocket fuel is the other book . And it's called rocket fuel for a reason because it propels an organization forward .

And so if you're somebody who's maybe feeling stuck , or you work in an organization where maybe you're an integrator yourself and you're looking for a visionary to work for or work with as their . I hate positioning the visionary above the integrator , because they're not .

They're meant to be side by side , but find a co-founder that needs that , and when you tap into both of your superpowers , that way it's magic . And then it's not even way it's magic , and then it's not even work , it's play .

You know , we grew up at a kind of interesting time in the 80s and early 90s where internet was starting , to , you know , catch steam obviously . So going from absolutely no internet or dial up the you know , world Wide Web , america Online , to , you know , the start at eBay and such .

And it was really interesting because everybody was , you know , obviously with technology everybody wanted to get in , like smartphones today , right , everybody wants the latest and greatest version . So we really got to see things and marketplaces start at the beginning .

So we always , as soon as eBay started , kind of had an eBay business and sold everything I think from . I don't know if I should share this .

So one of the things was popular shows , and this was before you could go to the store , god , and buy seasons of DVDs and such , or at least it would take a year or two for it to come out . So , a lot of the popular shows there's no on-'s , no on demand or anything . So you know whether it's HBO , showtime and whatnot would have these popular shows .

And God , grown up , this was , you know , for those around my age , listening Sopranos and Oz and you know , and all those , all those popular shows .

So I used to record them and sell them on eBay and you can get like 40 , 50 bucks for a season and I'd literally go and then at the time then I would have , like you know , 15 , 20 vcrs continuously going 24 hours a day getting it . And uh , yeah , I was , I got some cease and desists from paramount and hp . Uh , but uh , but yeah I was .

Uh , you know , from that to I always had odd jobs to . I mean everything from raking leaves to snow to babysitting jobs and you know just different ideas to kind of you know to kind of kind of make make money . So yeah , kind of always had the , had the itch early and then , and then into college as well .

I had to itch early and then into college as well .

So I'm going to guess you were born somewhere between 1978 and 1982 .

And then you see , you know , see the internet and everything that comes along with it , and now it's .

Ai is the next generation of what that technology can look like , and I wish my kids had the same opportunities that we did to grow up with that analog childhood and not have everything have to be on Instagram or through the lens of social media and the virtue signaling and all the things that go along with with that .

But , um , we can't turn back the clock , but it's , it's . The technology can be so exciting , but it's also man , we , we had it really , really good I think I think you're absolutely right .

But you're right , I mean , being outside , you know , go touch some grass , right ? That's a good saying . I've been saying a lot lately , right ?

You shared that one of your you know values or goals that you try to live by is to be an influential leader , or goals that you try to live by as to be an influential leader , and you're bringing together a couple of concepts that people typically wouldn't talk about in a business , setting this relationship between love and courage .

What is that all about for you ?

You know from , you know from not . And you know at Agiletics , especially because we focus on it more is our argument always is you know , to be an influential , you know leader . You know it requires you know courage , really courage to you know be able to you know kind of walk the walk .

And then you know be able to share what you're doing to encourage the growth of others . And then it requires service right , being able to focus on you know other people and really a love for what you're doing , a love for you know the people that you're working with and your team members and such .

And one of the arguments or the question I still get is you know , for younger employees is you know how do I become an influential leader Like I'm , you know , a consultant ? I just graduated from school and my argument's always been you can be a leader day one .

All you need to do is , as soon as you learn something there's probably someone at the company that doesn't know how to do that , right , go you know , show them , show them how to do it .

And that's being being a leader and really allowing you know team members to be able to do that from from day one and kind of build those , those skills to go learn something complex , simplify it , being able to articulate it for someone that doesn't know how to do it , and then you know , monitor , provide feedback and ensure success .

I think is is think is such an important skill to learn early and then , whether you're the CEO or CEO of a company , all the way to frontline employee starting out your career , I think it's important and applies equally .

and their relationship with their kids or with others . And I don't like the saying that you can't have it all . I think you can have it all . You can't have it all at the same time always .

But you also have to determine what's really important to you , and it sounds like you've found a balance between having a successful organization but doing it in a and that feeds you . You know you have a lifestyle that you're happy with and you're doing it in a way that's good to other people and helps bring them forward .

And sure , you probably leave some money on the table doing it that way , being more generous .

But your definition of success is probably different than the person that I just described , Because you're still hungry and chasing after something , but you're also satisfied with , um , the way that you're doing it . Is that ? Does that resonate at all ?

It reminds me of the quote you know , um , you know success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure , right , you know if , if it's all kind of me focused and you know building , you know whatever your empire legacy , but , um , you know , at the end of the day , um , you know at the end of the day , um , you know it's , it's , it's kind of empty .

You know it leaves you , it leaves you , it leaves you empty . Um , and I think that's could be applied to anything that you're doing and certainly a focus of us is you know , when the focus is on the customer , when the focus is on the growth of employees , we are more successful . We do make tangible more money .

But it's kind of a paradox If you focus on the end of quarter goals to the detriment of the long term strategy of the company or making your customers successful , it both leaves you long term and , I think , in a negative place that you otherwise would have accomplished more Plus , just , you know , overall as a company it's just not as fun .

You're not attracting the people that really want to change and everything . So I think that North Star really does need to be kind of the value that you're bringing day in and day out to the customers and the employees .

I know you're getting ready to launch a podcast also that well , first , I'm I'm super stoked to hear that you're doing that , cause I think there's plenty of room for more podcasts in the industry , and especially by people that share a lot of the same values that I do .

So I'm , whenever you you get your um media package ready and you get all that out there , let me know and we will . We'll blast it all over the place and help spread the word . But , um , what do you hope to ?

But we , you know , I , we I got , I was fortunate to , you know , kind of really get an early start at at Manhattan Associates really here in Atlanta , and the timing it was , it was a lot of , you know , engineers , a lot of Georgia Tech , a lot of people in the kind of late 90s , early 2000s kind of our generation , nate .

And there's something about the timing and the people there and it's just unbelievably amazing .

About five years ago I kind of wrote an article on LinkedIn called the Manhattan Mafia and it's all of the people basically around that time that ended up going to found their own companies in that kind of group of people and hopefully we'll get some of them to join Ballast as well .

But it's absolutely incredible that just and there's something you know kind of from that timeframe so really the podcast is dedicated to that is , you know , is having those people it's going to be Manhattan alum that have either gone on to found companies in supply chain and outside of supply chain , as well as top leadership positions elsewhere from that and try to

uncover what was in that special sauce at that , that kind of timing that that made and , um , you know , and obviously a you know , a tip um of the cap to the uh , to the paypal mafia . Um , for the concept oh , you're totally right .

I hadn't made that connection to Manhattan , so now I'm very , very curious and I'm going to . We'll know that all tech roads lead back there if we go far enough back . Yeah .

Or our mission hasn't changed Just how we deliver it , you know , has maybe evolved over the years , but really , you know it's the same thing . Going back to those hectic go live days with just having to go to 17 places to try to figure out where my , where the order was . Or you know my customers call in like where the heck's my order , right ?

You know my customers call in like where the heck's my order right Is . I don't really believe there's still a company out there , a solution out there , that you can go to to see all of the supply chain data in one place and then being able to make your decisions , from operational tactical planning to strategic decision , all from kind of the same data set .

And it's complex , right , it's not an easy problem to solve . Systems change . It's getting more fragmented year over year . You know , probably the average customer that we implement our solution for has 25 to 30 different supply chain systems and that's probably the median .

You know , and bringing in all that , you know , kind of data as those systems evolve and systems change . But we think we can do it and it's a fun enough challenge that keeps us focused and excited , but really just that is making it easier and easier and easier .

And , you know , probably our biggest differentiator is speed to value and getting value for customers as quickly as possible and then really continuing that down that line .

You know , as , as , as you mentioned , with AI and more and more complexity , making sure we're still able to meet , if not exceed that , the speed to value that we're able to , we're able to do today .

I'm sure you already have one , but it's from complexity to clarity . Ooh , I like , like that . It sounds like that's what you're offering yep , it is absolutely .

You know you read Gartner and Forrester and every study you read is always like 85 , 90% of the data that supply chain is creating today isn't being used at all or to make decisions , right .

So just tapping into that , just having that ability , brings that clarity right , and I know it , even on a small scale , living in my organization every day is like we need data from HubSpot and we need data from you know big time and we need to understand employees' forecasts and we need to .

So you know our , you know our small , medium sized company in Atlanta . You can't even imagine what you know these , these large enterprises , have to go through with with , with supply chain , Right . So so I know it impacts my personal decisions today at a small company .

So I my heart always goes out to the chief supply chain officers that have to make strategic decisions , like you said , mostly looking in the rear view window at old data .

. It's fascinating to get to be a part of hearing and then sharing your story , knowing that the ending is not written yet and that every day is a new chapter .

But I'm so grateful to Kara for connecting us and for you for being a part of our supply chain community that we've got with the founders group Ballast , and we wish you nothing but success and we're all rooting for you group ballast , and we wish you nothing but success and we're all rooting for you .

Be sure to like , follow or subscribe to the podcast to get the latest updates . To learn more about the show and connect with the growing community of entrepreneurs , visit logisticsfounderscom . And , of course , thank you to all the founders who trust us to share their stories .