240: Danny Postma — An Indie Hacker's Business Evolution

such a big role in building a successful indie business. Danny shares his thoughts about outgrowing the solopreneurial life or being at that point, what being a digital nomad means for the stability of your personal and professional life, and how he deals with being a pretty big deal on Twitter. Danny is an amazingly humble and insightful person. You will have a blast learning all about him and his journey. And before we dive into our chat, a quick thank you to our sponsor,

acquire.com. More on that later. Here's Danny. Thanks for being on the show, Danny. Now we're recording this with a 12 hour time difference here and you're in the Kuala Lumpur timezone, if I'm correct and I'm in Eastern Canada, that's like directly on the other side of the world. And I think a majority of your customers probably are located in North America too, right? Or somewhere in this time zone

here. So yeah, has this quite substantial time difference affected how you built your businesses or your products and how you engage with customers? How does that work for you?

productivity. The downside to it is that if something happens, most of the times, it's at night, I get a lot of messages. Partners I work with, they missed me at night. So the nights are a little bit less calm than I like, but it's like, yeah, it's a payback. So yeah.

hours until the next morning. Because I have one mantra, I don't build tools and software that really rely on me always been there that need to be offline like like email tools or anything like this. I don't want to build it like a lot of respect for anyone who does those things. Like I want to make tools where I could be gone for a week. And if I do ignore customer support, it's not that much of a biggie. So yeah, it doesn't live in media at all, to be honest.

do that? Like how did you instead of criticality focus on something else, what is that other thing that makes your businesses so interesting to people?

support and everything. So when I went on holiday with my wife to Holland for two weeks, I just turned on the auto refunds so anyone that had an issue, they could request a refund. So we just all get out automatically done. I just love to make robots like I want to completely automate anything. Yeah, that's the mantra. Yeah. consider yourself like a solopreneur at this point? I mean, you say your wife is involved but that is from a

technical perspective. Are you still the only person doing this at least?

know there's a lot of competitors coming that way. So it makes me really stressed. And I'm like, HeadshotPro makes a lot of revenue right now. So I was like, yeah, it's quite dumb if I don't use that to build maybe like a little synchronically team that's remotes, find some like senior people that can help me out, focus on what I'm not good in. So yeah, you might see me moving from a solopreneur to more of a

small team support this way. I'm trying to like figure out how it's going to look like because I don't want to build a team in the sense that I don't want, you have a lot of companies that have discovered the culture. You're always online chatting with each other and stuff like that, like, that's not how I get work done. So I would love to have a team that they can self

manage themselves. You give them some bigger tasks and they come back in a week with the solution you have like maybe some chats via Discord or whatever. I still want to keep that solo founder monitoring side of it even though I tried to build a team.

Asia now. Like America will be impossible for me. Europe isn't ready, kinda. And no good, to be honest. So I'd like to keep everything in the same time zone.

don't know where to start. So I was like, hey, maybe some crazy person is going to allow me to just be a fly on the wall, sit in the discord and the Task Manager, see how that team goes. I actually got a lot of replies like Sahil from GumRoad's and a meet to his notion. And it's like yesterday, so I've been taking notes all day, how they work. And it's so interesting. So based on that, I've actually put some processes. I'm being like, seeing how I'm gonna put in my notion how the task

manager is going to be. So I've learned a lot from it. Like, I think more people should try to do things like this, like just shadow someone. Yeah, that's interesting. It's cool that people are me. And tomorrow might be joining someone else. It just needs to sign an NDA because it's a lot of like, sensitive information, right? That you get access to. So yeah, we learning a lot. It's dope.

what this is. That's so cool. I feel would have never happened like 20 years ago, like nobody would have allowed like a random stranger from the internet in their business communication, right?

or whatever. And I had that all the time, like we had five and a half 1000 recurring customers like that was not just one off payments. That was SaaS subscriptions, most of which we automated away. I am like you, a big fan of automation. And we had a lot of automation. That was pre AI times pretty much. It was like, at least before any kind of GPT existed. And intercom, we were using that at the time for our customer

service stuff. They already had AI tooling. I don't know they had some machine learning in the background, I guess, that looked through your knowledge base and then suggested like word matching kind of substitution matching. I don't know what they did. But they brought the articles that were the best potential articles right into the first reply. So people most of the time found the things that we had written and solve

their own issues. But it got complicated. And I think most, the biggest reason that I had burnout at the end of Feedback Panda when we sold it, was this reason. I did not know how to hire, which is why I'm so impressed by you actually doing this, like going out and saying and I think it's an identity thing, too. And I was going to ask you because that's kind of why I asked, are you still a solopreneur? Because the moment you choose to build a team, you're not a solopreneur

anymore, right? It's a different mindset. Like, I wonder, what are you goals now that you're building an actual business, like not just a business in a formal sense, but like a team of people building something together? Did that shift the goals that you had for whatever you're doing?

how to do it. And now two and a half years later, I'm running into the same position with HeadshotPro where I cannot do it alone anymore. The only option would be either to sell it again or to build a team. And I've been starting to realize like, yeah, look, I'm 29. I'm gonna run into this issue a lot of times in my life again. I'm financially stable now. If I ruin it, revenue wise and whatever, like, I do have the backup like, this is the moment where I could learn to do it and

ever fuck up. And if I don't like it, I'm trying to set standards with anyone I'm interviewing. I'm telling them like, this is my first time. I don't know how it's going to go. If you're going to quit your job for it, don't. You're not the good. This is what I'm trying to start like as with contracts, like maybe like part time. People that already have another client, like straight to start it in like, more of a safety area in that sense. Yeah, I need to. Yeah, it's also I need that

identity, right? Because I built my whole solopreneur stuff around it on Twitter. Yeah, I think it's time to stop doing it by myself because I'm gonna run into another burnout.

things, you just exist for this. You get it to a certain point, that's the point where you can Peter Principle where you stop being good at, right? Where instead of going to hiring yourself into the next biggest position where you don't have the skill, so you stay where you are and kind of sell the thing, but you chose to go beyond that. That is cool. But it also means a lot of change for you, right? Because now you're a manager, congratulations. It's gonna be very different from indie

hacker, indie manager, maybe that's gonna be a new thing. I'm just excited for you to take this step because not only is this something that I would personally be very afraid of to do myself, but I know that you're a person that shares a lot of your journey on Twitter and in the build in public community. So everybody's going to benefit from this and this is really cool. So thanks for taking the step. This is awesome and doing it in public at the same time. That's really cool.

cool. I mean, that's just shows what kind of business perspective you have, you're going to try it out, you're going to learn to get better, right?

running this project. That is a big step to take. I don't want to scare you any further. I'm just trying to say like for an indie hacker, this is a pretty sizable move to make. And I don't see many people make this move because they get scared and you are scared, but you're still doing it, which is really nice. I quite appreciate that.

that's really cool. But on the other side and we talked about a lot of your build in public stuff that you've been doing and you've been sharing a lot over the last year, it's just how you built these businesses, the ideas you had and how they came to be. What I wanted to talk to you about this kind of the reason why I contacted you in the first place. There was a day where there was this copycat thing happening on Twitter. And that was kind of when I reached out to you. I don't know if you

remember this, but you probably do. Because it was a pretty weird day, right? Somebody just cloned your full product completely, like down to the copy and then posted some weird, like, kind of rich bait tweet about telling you not to be mad at them, right? Can you give me like, do you want to talk about this? Or does this feel traumatic to you?

like, everything is the same. That's a copycat. So let's just stay like set that down because a lot of people argue with me because it's a bad thing. Because people gonna think they are your, like the competitor is you, so people gonna get confused. That's like the biggest issue. So we'd Headlime for like, two months, I was just busy fighting them being negative on Twitter about everyone copying me and people got so fed up with me, like telling me like, shut up, stop

being so negative. And like, it really got me down at that time two years ago, but that fueled me to actually build the version 2 of Headlime that got acquired differently because I was like, fuck, my product is so easy. Everyone's copying it. I think I need to take three months and just build it into a bigger thing. So I'm ahead of the curve again. So what happened so many

times now two years later, like it happens a lot. I don't care that much about it because 99% of them, they don't go anywhere. This one just rage baited me so badly by just like calling it out that he copied me on purpose, making a tweet about it. That was 10pm and I was about to go to sleep, so I was already so tired. I was like, what the fuck is this? You gotta find this tweet. And like, I know he deleted it, right? I

think he deleted it. Like, he just rage baited me and I sent it to Pieter and Pieter Levels is like, dude, you're just feeding the trolls. He's gonna get engagement clicks out of it, delete it. I was like, yeah, you're right. I shouldn't spend time on this. I DM him. I was like, dude, there's something called DMCA, which is the Millennium Copyright Act. I can mail Cloudflare right now. They're gonna take you down tomorrow, like, you better just turn it into something else. So

he actually listened. He changed the copy. So it's still the same product, which is 100% fine. Like, that's competition. But now he has his own landing page with his own images and his own copy. So yeah, you grow a thick skin after a while. It stays annoying. This is why I'm blocking everyone. Everyone that's competing with me, I blocked them on Twitter. I just don't want to see what they're doing.

stuff, right? Which is algorithmically, probably interesting because it's not gonna get pulled in that much into their feeds either. So you don't see them. They don't see you. Everybody is at peace. So that's great. Yeah, it's very interesting. I'm absolutely 100% behind you on this, just don't years just because I don't want to see what Copy AI was doing.

feed the trolls thing. I also did not reply to this or retweet it because I did not want our community to either grew up a shitstorm because I don't want negativity like this either. It's bad enough, they copied you. They don't need to have their lives ruined by a couple, you know, a couple of 1000 Keeps you sane, to be honest. nerds. Now you don't need the nerd brigades to come in and destroy their lives. And also, any like, any retweet is kind of

validation for them, right? That was the rage bait. Let's see what we can do with this, right? That was their idea.

Gumroad, and any other like, big guys on Twitter. Like building you have when you're building in public or when you're in the in public is, the best thing about is you get to meet people you've been inspired by your whole life. You learn from them. And by making a carbon copy cat of someone else's product, you indie hacker community is your reputation as a good community just destroy your name and any chance to. I'm gonna get fed up already. But they're building in public. They're building in

public so their whole purpose of it is to go there, I guess. And you destroyed it by just doing one thing because no one is going to trust you anymore. member. So by doing anything that destroys that reputation, you burn any potential future opportunity. Like those people, I'm not sure if I even followed them or if I blocked them out of spite, just at the same moment, right? As it happened to you. I was like, I don't want to interact with people who do this

kind of stuff to Danny. I like Danny. I don't want Danny to suffer. I'm not gonna talk to them ever again, which, I mean, it's probably fine with them. But it's still in this community where reputation is everything, like these acts are really short sighted. That's the thing, right? It's super short sighted to just copy and hope to make a couple of sales and then not turn it into something better, just like try to stay a copy of something. It's really, really like a short term when that

turns out to be a long term loss. It's unfortunate. That's what it is. I do wonder now that you are very active in the visual AI space. If I look at your postcrafts like I'm just going to drop your domain a couple times here because it's really cool to see your projects. If I look at like the top 7 or 8, 9, 10 projects that all AI based and most of them are like visual AI, right? You have HairstyleAI, you have Photoshed, you have HeadshotPro and Deep Agency all of these are

really about, you know, physical visuals of people. I don't know mean morph is gone but you know, this model does not exist and Profile Picture AI all of this is AI. How much competition do you have there? And I'm not just saying indie hacker stupid clone competition. I mean, like actual meaningful competition from I mean, Pieter, always competitor of yours. I know that but you know, the much bigger pockets like how much competition do you have within this field right now?

competitor. I love it when I get a highly popular competitor because then they do marketing for me and earn the money. Like last week, Remini is going viral, which now does AI headshots on iOS and my sales have been tripled since that day because everyone's googling for AI headshots and I'm ranking number one on AI headshots. So I just get all that traffic and I confer them. So perfect!

things going on in the past. How did you go into like headshots and professional headshots too? That agency thing, that stock thing?

then I think on Twitter, I saw dream move launching. So Austria did AI. They made, yeah, they made a you could turn your face into styles. And Pieter sent me a DM on telegram. He's like, dude, check this thing. And he was building something. I was like, you're fucking kidding me. I'm also building it. So we basically just shipped it in 30 hours. He shipped without a back ends and database because he knew I was going to ship faster

than him. So he launched on Friday night. I was, fuck. So I launched on Saturday morning, absolutely exploded on Twitter. I think I got like, six figures in sales in a week because it's such a shareable product, right? And it was super new at a time. I was lucky to rank on Profile Picture. And there's a lot of searches on Profile Picture, like lots and lots of lots. But then Lensa came out. I got like a boost of revenue. And then it started to go really, really down like these days. It's

barely any revenue. And I was pivoting. So I was working with a friend of mine, a developer and we split up. I was going to do Deep Agency which was basically folded to the AI as an editor. David was going to use the model I built in Python, like I made a special pose. We can use photos of someone. You can get the pose out of it so you can make headshot with it. You could do anything with it. So that was building the headshots direction, both launched them at the same time.

Deep Agency got a lot of press coverage, but no sales and HeadshotPro got a lot of sales. So that's when I decided to dip down on yeah, on the Headshot part. This was really just an evolution of trying things out and I didn't expect Headshot to have so much. Yeah. So much demand for it. So yes, pivoting, pivoting, pivoting, trying it out in that sense.

there again. Yeah, impress and clicks doesn't pay the bills. So if you have a product that earns more revenue and has a higher conversion rate, I think Deep Agency had a conversion rate of 0.3%. And HeadshotPro had a conversion rate of 10 times that. So then, like, you know, your products Absolutely. Yeah, I guess particularly for an indie hacker that needs to make money to pay the bills that using the product or just serving the images incurs, right? Because

nothing is free on the backend side. That is an absolutely smart move.

more expensive physical products. They suddenly that people can only do in one city with a limited amount of photographs. And suddenly you can just build a robot that can do it worldwide. Yeah, I think this is a massive market that no, there is a 5 to 10 billion market size for portrait photography worldwide. So if I can just take 1% of that, I'm happy. So this is a big market. Like I see this getting bigger. And that's why I also want to build a team to grow it out.

say, yeah, you have to build a sustainable business. You need to take revenue overtime. I'm more of like this get as much revenue upfront because your company, especially with AI, it could go so fast. Like, you could be obsolete next year. And they'll just move up to new products. And then they have a team to ship even faster to move to the other product, try out different things. Yeah, I'm not that scared about it, to be honest.

much as possible upfront, which is also new. You know, it brings me back to my whole solopreneur question from earlier because you know, back a couple years ago, five years ago if you would have asked me what is a good business, I would have told you my recurring revenue every month solopreneur living lifestyle business, bla bla bla bla bla. I would have counted down a couple things. But if you asked me now it's like, well, you want to

monetize as quickly as possible. Recurring revenue is great, but it's not required. And if you need to build a team, then you need to build a team. So this seems to be the change that happened in my life. Does that happen for you too?Did you just like, let go of these preconceived notions?

If you're more in B2C like my skills are, I'm really good in conversion optimization. I know how to build a high converting landing page. You only have to get them once to buy. There's no recurring thing. You don't have to add features because they don't pay monthly, they just buy what they want. It needs to be good at that moment. You basically don't have to support them after because they will not come back. They just come for the one product. So you don't have that much of a support

load. You don't have that much of a help desk. You can more scale with SEO on ads. So it's like this whole different. I really like it to be honest. Like, I really like to optimize traffic coming in converting them giving them what they want. And then it's done. Like that's where the relationship ends. That's what's cool about B2C.

price is four times revenue, right? Yearly revenue four times profit. If I can optimize a landing page to have five times more conversions, I earn back the acquisition price in 10 months. If I do it 10 times, it's five months. And I already have the better AI generation. So I just copied HeadshotPro, put it on his domain name. I think conversion rate is up six times now. So I earn a back in nine months. So it was a no

brainer for me to do in that sense. And then the other acquisitions are, I bought profilepicturemaker.com, which is like a 12 year old domain. And then that one, like people want to make a profile picture. So if someone that wants a profile picture probably also might want the new headshots. So I've put a big banner on it to link back to HeadshotPro. I'm trying to like have like all these acquisition channels to

funnel back to the main product. It's more like as an engineering as marketing, I guess, like making tools, getting traffic, sending them to the main server.

still a lot, right? But if it's a good domain, it's worth it. So I had to pay $500 for the domain. If you don't want it anymore, you can cancel it. And if you cancel it before you've paid it off, the owner of the domain gets the domain name back and you can stop paying for it. So I paid three months of domain transfer. So I paid $1500. I didn't get product market fit. So I just said I'm going to quit paying for the domain name. So

you can like lease it. Yeah, lease to own, I guess is the name for it.

And he earned it back by people just going through the website. So imagine having your competitor buying the domain. You're gonna lose all your customers like it's worth, if you can spare it to buy the domain, that's good to be honest, the .com.

will show you how many searches there are for a website. So I saw there's a lot of search for headshots and that the keyword difficulty, which means the higher the number, the harder it is to go rank in Google. So the moment you have like a keyword difficulty that's under 10 or 20, you're guaranteed to go to the front page if you have like a one or two backlinks. So I only pick product ideas that have a lot of search and a lot of keyword difficulty. Why? I hate marketing. Like I hated

marketing. Now I'm getting a little bit better at it. I think it's really like if you're an indie hacker, the easiest thing you can do is pick a product that has a lot of searches with no competition. You never have to do marketing because you're going to rank number one on Google. Everyone goes through Google like you have. You don't have to do marketing for it

because people search for it already. So that's how often the IDs and postcrafts.com They're all based on me searching on ahrefs for some keywords and then building a product off it.

gonna have an easy time. You know people want to buy it. You know you can just not do marketing for it because your website will rank for it. Yeah. This is why I try to tell everyone on Twitter just go SEO as indie hacker. I might be biased, though. But

you're doing. It's kind of what Justin Jackson always talks about too, right? Like the presence of demand is a good sign, good validation strategy for an indie hacker. Because if people are already buying something like this or searching for something like this, that's likely that they will also have budget for yours. And it's not just you can have a cool idea and everybody needs to buy it.

I'm building good reputations with people like you to come on my show and chat with me. I have people that sponsor this show, like acquire.com, that's for this one, right? And I have good relationship with Andrew Gazdecki and he was on the show. It's all relationship based for me. So it's a very community centric and build in public, you know, it's all about people in the end. It doesn't really matter what you're building

it. But if you're building a product that's not like new, refreshing, people want to see how you build, it might be really hard to start off with building in public. So better just focus on like, guaranteed marketing channel like that.

them in a way that appeals to them, right? That helps them that gets them somewhere, either as a content marketing, whatever strategy or you have a podcast in this space and you get other experts in and they invite their own audiences and whatever. But building in public is a thing that it has to be intersectional to meet both. And if it doesn't, if the only audience that you talk to about your product is other indie hackers, you still

get something out of it, right? You still got good advice and that kind of stuff, but you're not going to sell. You still have to get people to actually look at your product and pay for it. Yeah, that's right. So with with that in mind, I do wonder sometimes because you're now at 80,000 followers, too, right?

Like you have a sizable Twitter audience. I mean, we're probably yeah, we're never gonna reach Pieter because he's gonna just keep keep moving away from us in terms of followers, but it's still bizarre that between the two of us, it's kind of 200,000 people or something. It's like, what is this?

in the community. It's crazy. And that's the thing. It puts a lot of attention on them. And then on you and on me, like we get a lot of exposure too in front of a lot of people. Do you sometimes wish you wouldn't have that much attention on Twitter? I was talking earlier about the copycat thing and the shitstorm that sometimes happen. Do you sometimes wish you could just be an anonymous founder somewhere?

worth it. Like I basically have my whole board of directors on Twitter like I post about Edwards, people helped me out like where do you get that? I get to learn from other people so much like, the only reason I can do this alone is because I cannot ask other people for the feedback to help me out. Yeah, and you need to start early to do it. Like you need to start years and years ago. It's not going to be suddenly there.

Yeah, it's 100% worth it. No, I would not. I don't fit. Yeah, I don't know if I want to go to the level of Pieter where he gets recognized and everything everywhere. Like it's I think what we are lucky with though is like we're like a bit more. He's more known in like a little niche. So he's not like, real life famous. So I guess he like it gets recognized and coordinate space and stuff like that. So that's a nice part. But I wouldn't never want to be like a famous, famous. Yeah, yeah bigger.

question here. And in this wonderful conversation, it's really nice that you're on. Now that you're building a bigger team and you're still you're building the studio of all of that and experimenting more, do you still have the you know the dream exit kind of somewhere in your future? Do you still consider this as a goal or do you just want to keep doing what you're doing until you just drop dead from, you know, old age?

an 8 to 10x. It's not worth it, man. You can automate it away for three years. Get your money out. So if you have a team that supports it, so yeah, for me at that price it didn't make sense so I was like okay, yeah, then I need to go that way. Yeah, what are you going to do with the money anyway? I'm probably going to put it in a house or investments. I tried sitting on the beach maybe depressed. I need to build like yeah, so if I can build a team, then that's good. Yeah.

nomadic. I might move to Portugal one day or to Kuala Lumpur. I'm not like fixed to this spot.

addicted to Twitter. That's obviously the same thing. Like I spent way too much time there. But the opportunities that come from that, they spiced up the life that I have. So that's the reason why I also wouldn't have never want to give it up, same reason that you have for trying to, you know, build an audience and be a presence in the community. It's just because so much is coming back. And that is enough reason for me at least right now to not care where I am because doesn't matter where I

am. The thing I'm going to be doing, it's the same anyway. I'm going to hang out on Twitter and I'm going to do things, right? Maybe warm outside, maybe cold. I don't care. So that's it for me. Yeah, how's life in Indonesia? It feels like I've never been there. How is that for a founder? How's the founder life there?

in that sense. Here in Asia, I wake up, I order my food, gets delivered to my house, house gets cleaned. I have a gardener in that sense. So the things you don't want to do, you can outsource to someone else. A lot of people are going to say yeah, that's bad. You hire someone else. But in this, like, everyone gets a part of the country. And this is how everyone lives in Indonesia. Like my wife, for example. They

also order food like as locals because why does it happen? You suddenly have three people have a job as a cook because there's no social security here, right? So everyone needs to have a job. Everyone, like the whole economy, I think gets like stimulated in that sense. And this is very Asian. Like it's more of an Asia thing like you outsource in that sense, right? Yeah, Mark got canceled once on Twitter for saying these things. So I think

works in this. Like, that's how it works over here. So I get to say four hours a day, I think, in that sense, so I can focus more on my company instead of having to cook which I don't like, having to drive to work, which I don't like. Like it makes life a little bit easier in that sense. And it's also like, yeah, I think the sun helps a lot getting to walk out sides. Good weather.

whatever. It's kind of nice. That is very cool. Thanks for

Maybe we move back to Europe. Maybe we go somewhere else. anywhere else because she likes it here. This is her house. The We'll see what life brings us, not stuck. dog owns this house, right? This is her place. I don't want to go It's bizarre that it's so much easier to fly with anywhere else.

bow. If people want to follow your journey and see what you're building and see just how your cool idea of hiring people comes along, where do you want them to go? Wherever you want them to follow you? Follow me on Twitter, @dannypostmaa is where I share all my journeys, everything I do. I don't share revenue anymore. Sorry. But all the other learnings are there on Twitter. And if you need a new headshot, go to headshotpro.com.

episode can do for you. Imagine this, you're a founder who has built a solid SaaS product. It works, you have customers, you acquired them over a long period of time and it's generating consistent monthly recurring revenue. People are interested in your product. And the problem now is that you're not growing for whatever reason, there may be a lack of focus or lack of skill, lack of plain interest or something. I don't know. You

just feel stuck. What should you do? Well, the story that you would like to hear is that you would buckle down and somehow reignited the fire. And that's what it is. You get past yourself and the cliches and you start working on the business instead of just in the business. You built this audience you always wanted to build and you move out of your comfort zone, do sales and marketing. And half a year later, you tripled your revenue. While reality is not that simple. That's just wishful

thinking. Situations may be different for every single founder who's at that particular point in time. But too many times the story ends up being one of inaction and stagnation until the business becomes less valuable or even worse, worthless. If you find yourself there where your story is likely headed down a similar road, I can offer you a third option here and that's consider selling your business on acquire.com. Capitalizing on the value of your time is a smart move, don't

waste it. Acquire.com is free to list. They've helped hundreds of founders already. So go to try.acquire.com/arvid and see for yourself if this is the right option for you at this point in time. Thank you so much for listening to The Bootstrapped founder today. You can find me on Twitter @arvidkahl. And you'll find my books and my Twitter course there too. If you want to support me and this show, please subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Really appreciate that. Get the podcast in your podcast player of choice and leave a rating and a review by going to (http://ratethispodcast.com/founder). That's the best way you can help me in the show. Any of this will really help the show, just a good rating, a good review, best you can do would really appreciate it. So thank you so much for listening today. Have a wonderful day. Bye bye