232: Andrew McIntosh — First-Generation Entrepreneurs

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foreigners already. Go to acquire.com and see for yourself if this is the right option for you. All right, here is Andrew McIntosh. So what's the most common issue that first generation entrepreneurs run into that founders who come from entrepreneurial backgrounds, families that have an entrepreneurial background rarely ever experienced? What have you found?

advantages that I didn't have. So what I mean by that is, every time I talk to this guy, I would see him probably every month or two. And in 2006, he was building websites for a living. And if you recall in 2007 is when the iPhone came out, right? So he pivots to I don't do websites anymore. Now, I do apps. And every time I see him, he's on to some other completely different, you know, wildly different app idea. And it would never, whatever he had would never last more than a month or

two. And I was always like, man, you need to sit down and just focus, just stick with something, just stick with one thing and do it really well. Well, then one day, this guy he, like falls off the face of the earth, doesn't respond to calls or texts or anything. I don't know what's happened to him. And then I find out through the grapevine. He's already sold his business for seven figures. This is in 2008, probably. And I was like, what? What gives? How, you know, at this point, I'm three

years into my bootstrapped business. I'm an IT guy by trade. So I'm just fixing people's computers. But a few years into my business, I'm still doing this full time and then cleaning offices with my wife after hours, like we're just barely scraping by. He's already sold his business. He's like 26 years old and early retirement. And I'm like what gives? So come to find out after the fact, his dad was the CEO of a pretty sizable company here in town. And his dad was floating

him financially. He was covering his apartment and all of his personal expenses. So this guy actually had, it's like, he had 50 darts in his hand and he could just keep throwing them until he hit a bull's eye. Whereas I'm standing over here going, I got one dart, man. I got one shot at this, you know and so on reflecting on that now, just kind of looking back. It's like, again, not trying to minimize what he's doing because if he wasn't smart and hardworking, like this never

would have taken off, right? But he was able to get connections, his dad was able to pull some strings, help him find his first few clients. Here's my accountant. Here's my lawyer. Here's how you set up an LLC. Here's how you market yourself, here's how you sell. Here's the education you need to be able to develop apps. Here's all these things none of which did I have

when I started my business, right? So for me being the first in my family to start a business, my parents were like, super proud, like and supportive, which was awesome. I'm very, very grateful for that. But in terms of mentorship, support, advice, connections, financial backing, I had none of that whatsoever. So in the long term, I think it was actually a good thing for me because it's kind of that

bootstrapper mentality. You know, it's not just the financial aspect of it, but it's also learning by doing, by making a bunch of mistakes. You know, I kind of learned everything the hard way, it's the school of hard knocks, right? But I couldn't help but look back on it. Now that I've sold that business all these years later, which I know we'll

probably get into. But it's like, man, if I had had access to some of those types of connections, my first few years in business probably would have gone a whole lot smoother and been a lot less painful and gotta change the trajectory even better than what it was.

they definitely need this. And at some point in our life, hopefully, we find that somewhere. A lot of people have the advantage of having it with their parents, which is great because it kind of permeates your whole education, right? It's not just you turn, like 21 years old or something. And then somebody comes in and gives you kind of the pamphlets that you need to read. And now you know everything. It's been instilled in you if you have parents and a family that has this kind of

approach to life. But if you don't, at least having alternative groups of people that can bring this into your life as early as possible, that would be great. At least, that's what I want entrepreneurs to see. So I do want to talk about the actual support network too, right? Because that mentorship guidance, that's kind of intellectual. But there is an underlying feeling for me that I have only recently in the last couple of years develop that I feel surrounded by supportive

people. Because I didn't really have that before. Short excursion into my family story, like I said, everybody is kind of hard working and working for the government or working for private enterprise somewhere but in a paid position just really as an employee. So when it came to just understanding risk, financial risk or even understanding money, understanding like how money has this cumulative effect, if you invest it, it becomes bigger instead of if you just save it

and never touch it, right? There are these narratives, these stories that we have in our lives, where our families are kind of telling us a thing that worked for them. But in the end, we need a different story. So how does kind of support network? How can you build this if you don't have that in your family? What are your suggestions when you need that support network, but you can't really source it from your relatives?

Well, it's interesting, I'm finding that there's kind of two camps when it comes to your family and your support network as a first gen entrepreneur. Either one, your parents are like mine or yours, where they're supportive of what you do, but there's a danger in that. Because in some cases, they think you hung the moon, they think you're just

fantastic, right? They love you. You're their child and they think you can do anything, but then they fail to point out to you the pitfalls or the mistakes you're about to make or the things that you're doing wrong because they don't know any better, right? So they give you this false sense of, you know, confidence, perhaps as you're going into this or it's the

other camp where they're overly critical of you. And they know what your shortcomings are and they think that you're not cut out for this and they'll make comments like you sure this is, you know, this business is really gonna work out for you? And like maybe should just go back to a day job and that is super discouraging for people. And so for me when I think about a support network, you know what I'm already witnessing happening in this community that I've started which is still in its

infancy, frankly. But you know, a lot of people talk about imposter syndrome, right? And we see it openly discussed on social media and things like that. It's super, super common thing. But once you kind of rub shoulders with your peers and you know that they have it too, but then you see what they're able to accomplish in their business, there's kind of this sense of like, okay, yes, maybe I'm the first in my family to

start a business. I am the Trailblazer here, but what I'm doing isn't actually all that different from what he's doing or from what she's doing. I'm also saying where, you know, I talked about this a lot. Entrepreneurship is a roller coaster, man. I mean, it has higher highs and lower lows than just working in a normal day job. And when you're experiencing those lows, it's like everything feels like it's crashing down on you. You know, you start to question, it's not

just imposter syndrome. It goes way, way beyond that. You're not even thinking, am I an imposter here? You're thinking is this whole thing gonna come crashing down? Is it even going to be able to pay the bills by this time next month? And all that self doubt starts to creep in. And that can actually lead to depression, you know, where you find yourself struggling to get

out of bed. So when you're talking to people who aren't entrepreneurs, then all they're focused on is the fact that, yeah, you know, you're depressed and here's how we can, you know, try to fix that or whatever. But when you're talking to people who've been there, done that, have experienced the same exact thing and have gotten through the other side of this thing,

they can validate the way that you're feeling. They can tell you that it's going to be okay and you actually believe them because you know, they've experienced it for themselves. And it's like that can make or break your mental and emotional, you know, outlook on whether your entrepreneurial journey here is actually going to, you know, fall off a cliff or if it's actually got a happy ending on the other side.

forever. We had this with our business, too. It felt after a while, that we had something really valuable, that if we stopped working on it for a couple days, we just implode. And that is a risk that most people who have a job don't have like they think about job security and how quickly can I find another job doing the thing that I'm already doing right today? But for a founder, the risk is so much more intense. And that is something people just really don't relate to,

right? Unless they have done this themselves, which as I said earlier, if you had that in your family, people will raise you with that understanding that certain things. You know, they will come they will go. That's fine. You will find another way or invest your time wisely. And then kind of diversify because they understand the concepts underneath these. But if your family doesn't have this and I come from a family like this, they looked at me like why would you do this? Why wouldn't you

just, right? That's always the argument, the default path. And I'm thinking about like Paul Millerd spoke here, the Pathless Path. I read that recently. And he puts that so clearly, you have the default path that everybody takes where the outcome is guaranteed if you follow these steps and for most people, that's their work life, that their whole work experience

is that default thing. And for you to take another path, being kind of non compliant, that often creates some kind of emotional distress that most people deal with by just kind of isolating you to the side. Like I've seen this in families. You have a lot of when it's Thanksgiving dinner and people ask you what you're doing? And you tell them, oh, I'm building a business and they just look at you like, I don't know, should you really let's just talk about something else, right? That kind

of sucks and not having this. That's frustrating. And it's good to have community for that. I think it's necessary to even have the impetus and the motivation to keep working on your thing. And for that you need people around you.

been crazy? Or is this a new development, right? Because the truth is, you have to be a little bit crazy to take on a venture like this as if you're the first one in your family to do it. Because you're right, the safe option is just well, let me rephrase that the "safe option" is to just take a job, which this is a whole other conversation, I think is a totally false sense of security. I mean, just look at all the layoffs that are happening. You've got all your eggs in one

basket. Things could be going great for 20 years and then you get a new boss. And now everything changes overnight, right?

uncharted territory. It's scary, it's stressful. It's fraught with risk or at least perceived risk. And you don't have a roadmap, you know. You don't have this like clearly laid out path to get from point A to point B. You feel kind of blind as you're going through doing this. And that to me is kind of where just having that network of fellow crazy people like, hey, you know, even if it's the blind leading the blind, at least we're all in this together. But that's not the

case. It's, you know, you've got your peers, you can bounce ideas off each other, they can tell you if what you're saying is a bad idea. And they're not going to hold back the way that you know, someone who is a close family member might or they might be supportive in a way that a close family might. And just being a help you validate your ideas to know that you're not alone. To help, you know, kind of decipher the crazy, I think is just a huge benefit.

to build something for themselves. They don't like making other people wealthy. They just want to build something that they own, right? And for those, I think it just it does wonders for your mental and emotional state to be able to rub shoulders with like minded individuals so that it just makes the whole thing a little easier.

in a business sense. And it did wonders for my mental and emotional state like I could, I'd be freaking out about something. And he would help me understand like, this is not as big a deal as you think it is. And here's why. And here's what you need to do. He was like the psychiatrist. I could lay on the couch, so to speak and just, you know, pour my heart out. Because you can't share these things with your employees, you'll freak them out. You can't share these things with your family

because they won't understand. And it was just like, it was phenomenal. I would absolutely recommend that someone get a business coach. But here's the problem. I would have hired him much earlier in the process if I could have afforded it. He was like $1,000 a month. And that was a decade ago. And that was his discounted rate because I was still small potatoes and he was trying to help me out. And I couldn't help but think what if I had had access to that type of mentorship and support from day

one? Like my first five years would have been completely different. And so after I sold my business and I was thinking about what I want to do next, I kept kind of reflecting on that. And reflecting on that story I told you earlier about that second gen entrepreneur. I actually was describing myself as a first gen entrepreneur. I just kind of, after repeating the story of enough times, I kind of coined that term and immediately had people send me DMS, like, hey, I've never heard

it put that way, but I'm a first gen entrepreneur. And then you instantly realize we all have the same emotions and the same struggles in common. And so my thought was, man, if I can do something that gets people that mentorship and advice and support to help you just keep your sanity the way I got with my coach, but do it in a way that's accessible for people who, you know, inside their first five years, I would have

jumped at that opportunity if I had had it. So that's kind of how I came up with the idea.

thought I could do it all or I had to do it all. I had to be able to do it all, deal with it all just all by myself and nobody should need to help me. Otherwise, it wasn't my accomplishment, which is obviously bizarre. So thinking about coaching or therapy, I kind of feel that coach of yours is both therapist and coach at the same time. That should be way more normalized and there should be also more accessible ways like the one that you're providing for people to get at

least a glimpse of this. Just even the presence of it, knowing that it exists, probably changes your mind in a certain way. So I love this. How are you building this kind of coaching guiding or guidance mentorship into your community? How are people helping each other there?

primarily revolves around holding weekly events. And we just do it right there on Zoom. We've got people throughout the US, London, Israel, New Zealand, a person in the Philippines, it's basically the English speaking world is kind of the limit right now. And so with these weekly events, what I'm doing is trying to figure out the needs of the members. So maybe you feel like what you need more than anything is

accountability. Well, we've got a format just for that, where we can kind of check in weekly and keep each other held accountable in a way that our friends and family wouldn't. Maybe what you need is to generate more business and to do leads, well, I'm working on a format for that to help you do that. Maybe it's just strictly social hour and sometimes a place to just show up and just kind of vent and tell people what's going on in

your business a little bit. Every time you facilitate conversations like this, magic happens, it just kind of happens all on its own. And it's really cool to see because as much as I would like to take credit for it, it's really about getting people in a room, kind of setting the stage for here's what we're here to talk about. And then you watch as connections are made, as people unearth these new opportunities or share these tips and tricks they've picked up along the way.

And we had one yesterday, that was just like, this thing that had been bothering one of the members of the community for months now. And we just teed it up and one of the fellow members like, have you ever thought about doing it this way? And he's like, oh, my goodness! You know what I mean? And so it really revolves around those weekly kind of live events. I think that that's where that sense of community really starts

to, you know, get fostered, those connections are made. We also have some additional spaces where people can post questions, you know, so it's more of like an asynchronous type of thing, you know, posts and comments and likes and that style of thing. So there's that and there's the live event. So those are the two main draws.

in digital communities, that's different. You have the option to have a large synchronous part like what you've been doing and it kinda reminds me of a community center because people come to your community center in the virtual space. And then there's these different rooms they can go into and do different things. But something is there for whatever they need. That's really cool. And then you have the asynchronous part where I guess knowledge can be stored or made applicable when you need

it, instead of having to be present for it. I'm saying this because I'm working through building a similar community centric thing with my friend, Tyler Tringas. We try to build something around Calm SaaS companies right now, like businesses that slowly build like sustainable business models and that stuff. And we want to build a community based approach

as well. And we've been thinking about this a lot. We have this little podcast where we talk about this every week and just try to brainstorm a new thing in public into being because building in public, obviously, it's the best thing you could possibly do. The idea is that we want to get feedback from the

like a good time is for them to meet, right? How are you dealing with that? Like the globalness of it all? Yeah, so that's a great question. And it's something that is an ongoing thing that I'm trying to tackle. Because I have these awesome ideas and plans on how exactly

I'm going to fix that problem. But it's dependent on me having like, 1000 members in the community, which I don't as of this exact moment because once you have a large enough community, then what happens is, is people even at the small size that we are today, I've already had people raised their hands to basically, volunteers like ambassadors, essentially. You know, they love the mission of what we're doing so much.

They're like, hey, how can I help? And so if you do that, I think what you can actually do is you can say, alright, well, here's a format that we've designed for this. I'm going to host one of these at noon Eastern, but then this person is going to host it at 4pm. And this one's going to host at 7pm. If you can build the structure and then

might have three different time slots and different formats. And you can now just kind of opt in to what suits your calendar, I think would be the best way to do it. meta perspective, it's yet another entrepreneurial thing that nobody teaches you, unless you have entrepreneurial your peers, like the idea that you can just kind of franchise out parts of your business, just by designing them in a process based structure, give that to other people and have them do an

equally good job as you could. Because you know, in any business, you tend to delegate eventually. And this is just another smart way of delegating business work in your community to somebody who's better at and better for that particular job. I love this. This is already super helpful. Like just to even talk about that kind of stuff among entrepreneurs, right? This community building right here. I love it.

doing one every month. And I was going to build this whole system where we can like track each other's goals and do all this, you know, kind of cool stuff. And she's like, that's terrible idea. And I just love the brutal, most straightforward honesty, but she immediately you know, tore it to shreds. And I'm appreciative of it because she was able to like help me see instantly, like no, short, sweet bursts, you know, 30 minutes every week, just get to the point. And let's just kind of

keep the needle moving. So not only did she help refine something I was already working on but then she was one who raised her hands like, hey, I'll run one of these. So now we're doing two of them. And we're taking two different time slots to help accommodate people. So even at a small size, we're able to do that. And then the other thing that's really cool and it excites me to think what this could become long term. I've had more than one member already come to me and say hey, you

know, this could be more than just a community like this. One person is an attorney who was like we could provide like legal coaching services as part of this or financial advisors like I can help implement Profit First, if you're familiar with that one. I'm a big believer in that system and we could actually help people with, like, the implementation of these

fundamental things for their business. So it goes beyond just a community that's about support, but it's also about, we'll give you the playbooks or we'll even help you with implementation on things. So it's like, as this thing, you know, kind of gets Frankenstein together, though, it's exciting, you know, in a good way because you're just seeing all these ways that we can help each other, collaborate, joint ventures, you know, and partnerships and all these types

of things. It's just, it's a lot of fun if you're into that kind of thing.

and then become the local expert added. That feels like this community that you're currently building is going from little village that just has a couple people living in farming there to a whole bigger like a town, a city, maybe even with specific people doing specific work, but all for the benefit of the local community. It's so awesome to see this happening.

when you're by yourself. It's just riddled with dangers and risks, right? But on the flip side, to your point about kind of the village, the community concept that's more like SimCity. Did you play SimCity?

cool. So thank you for putting that idea in my head. That's awesome.

here. And all of that kind of stuff, you have these details, and you need to figure things out to understand each part of your city. But as you scale it, these things become more independent units that have their own purpose. So I'm just thinking of my own video game experience and how much that actually influenced. I think I learned that's the thing I learned more from city about entrepreneurship than from my parents. That's what I'm kind of figuring out just that. And that

is both sad. And it's both awesome that the game the video game can actually supply this. Now in retrospect, that was super helpful.

impossible. And I think most of entrepreneurship is really that it's hard but not impossible. And if it looks impossible, and sounds and smells impossible, then maybe you just need to shift your perspective a little bit and look at a different angle, and then becomes possible again. So, again, videogames, probably a solution to all our problems. That's what I'm saying.

that comes from that. And it's like, that's what entrepreneurship does, it is, it is way more challenging than just having a day job. But man, at some point, you stand and you look back on what what you've accomplished, and what you've built, and not just in a monetary way, but just the sense of pride and satisfaction that comes from building something that is truly yours. And it's like that SimCity, it starts small. And then next thing, you know, you look back, and you've

got this sprawling metropolis. It's just, it's so satisfying. And I think that, honestly, I think video games in some ways can can train a person to understand that it takes that persistency and that grit to kind of keep going until you, you get to the other end.

back to people, so they don't have it that hard. Do you feel that there's a stronger sense of volunteering in your community than it normally is available to people?

whole kind of pay it forward mentality. It doesn't only apply to quote unquote, successful entrepreneurs, you don't need to have been someone who's who built the business and sold it for eight figures or something before you qualify to give advice to someone else. I mean, I've got a couple of people who have reached out to me who are in that category. And they're like, Man, I love what you're doing, I'd like to, you know, kind of be like a mentor in this community. That's awesome. I'm

all for it. But the reality is, is for the rest of us that are still kind of boots on the ground, you know, just grinding this out doing it one day at a time, there are small wins every single day, all these little things that you pick up here and there that I was able to do this quicker, or I was able to charge a little bit more for this, or I've used this tool, and it saved me some time. And sharing those wins is is super valuable

to other people. And then it also brings you measure fulfillment to know that you've helped somebody else and you just being able to foster that is it's really cool to see,

into use and so it doesn't even have to be something big. Right? There's like I said small wins every day, little bits here and there. And now now that just kind of helps all of us, you know, pick up little pieces as we

me in the hole and and all this other kind of stuff. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from all these years later. So that space isn't to just share a story like a sob story. You know, boohoo Woe is me. You know, please feel sorry for me. But it's more importantly, what did you learn from that experience? And how would you do it over again, if given the

opportunity. And now there's that Pitfall, there's that, that thing that if you come from a family business, you know that's been built in, it's been handed to you, your family is going to have already avoided these pitfalls, and they're going to educate you on what to look out for and how not to make costly mistakes. But if you're the first in your family to do this, you're gonna walk right into it, because you just didn't see it coming. How could you you've never done this before, right?

So sharing your learns, that's another, you know, super valuable thing that is just like, here's the things to look out for what to avoid. The mistake I made, I paid the price, but I'm sharing it so that you don't have to,

right? And so that's a really good question, that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around, like what this could be because I come from an IT background, right? So at my previous company, we were fixing people's computers, we're fixing their printers. That's not the most like fulfilling thing in the world. If I'm being honest with you, right? Nobody calls you up to say, Hey, I just wanted to say things are running great. I

love what you guys do. It was it was a pretty thankless job. So now with this, it's like the complete other end of the spectrum where it is so fulfilling, to think about the fact that you can make a meaningful impact on someone's entrepreneurial journey. And not to get like too philosophical

about it. But like entrepreneurship to me, you know, I come from a middle class, blue collar, Midwest upbringing, and with that came some limiting limiting beliefs, you know, what I what I thought was good money when I came out of college, you know, what, what it means to be wealthy terms, like building equity for yourself like this, none of

that. That was all foreign to me, basically, right? And now that I've kind of gone through this whole process of starting a business as a one man show, growing it over a 15 year period, and then ultimately selling it, and, and rubbing shoulders with all these other people who who do this all the time. It's like, I think entrepreneurship is a very valuable thing that can take you from a lower class to a middle

class or middle class to an upper class. Or take whatever you define success as an help you get there, it's a vehicle to help you to get there. So whether that's freedom of time, freedom of money, freedom of choice as to who you want to work with, and what you want to do for a living, like, once you get a taste of these freedoms, you never, you never want to go

back. Right? So to me, it like brings an immense amount of, you know, purpose and satisfaction to know that like this community, or zooming out a little bit, this organization can be something that helps people to achieve their their definition of success. And so the idea of being able to help say, 1000 people, you know, having a meaningful impact on their lives is like, super fulfilling. So that's like my

big, hairy, audacious goal as this awesome. Yeah. Now the how, you know what, what that actually looks like, is still like I said, building the airplane while flying the airplane. So I think it's going to be a combination of obviously supporting people so that they're not doing it alone is probably always going to be the the baseline, you know, kind of

thing. But then to what extent can we not just give them support, but actually help them with the implementation of systems that really set them up for success, I think is, is what I'm still kind of charting out but that's the part that excites me.

sustainable. So I do want to know, if you can divulge it, obviously, like, how do you approach this to be a sustainable and growing potentially growing or hopefully very much potentially growing business? And what's your business approach to this community?

So $18,000 a year. And they really leaned into this kind of exclusivity thing, right? So the idea basically, is that if you can afford to be in a room full of guys who can afford to be in that room? That they are all doing something? Right, right? These are all quote unquote, successful business owners. And so through osmosis through the connections that you're going to get, you might wind up doing business with each other, it'll pay for itself. And the truth is, it works like it does

actually work that way. But they are leaning into this whole kind of exclusive thing. And to me, that's like a boys club, like, it really goes against the grain of kind of who I am. I'm trying to swing the other way, I'm trying to be inclusive, I'm trying to help the underdog here, I'm not looking to take already successful people and just help them become even

wealthier. I'm trying to take the people who are just trying to provide a comfortable lifestyle for their own family trying to build something for themselves, and help them out, right? So my business model is very different, like, at this point in time, it's $75 a month to belong to this community. Wow. And so it's very accessible, right? Like anybody who is an entrepreneur who's who's actually like, gotten

started, you should have 75 bucks. And if you don't, that's kind of a whole different, you know, I'm not in a position to help you at that point. But for people who are established that's accessible and I want to keep it accessible, long term. But then to your point, there becomes like the business model for this, like, how's that going to work? Because you really need a lot of num, a lot of people at that price point before this becomes something that that you can make long term, you know,

sustainability. So, I would like to always have that accessible entry point that makes valuable, useful, tactical, tangible resources available to first gen entrepreneurs, I always want

that to be there. But then I think what will happen is, is as the community grows, and then as members start to mature in their own businesses, then we can start to offer additional services to help them with implementation of of systems and processes, or with you know, kind of those a miniature version of that, where it is like a CEO roundtable type of thing. But it's still a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the time commitment, with none of the highbrow exclusivity kind

of vibe, because that's just not not my people. And then if you recall, at the beginning, I said how much I enjoyed business coaching and think that it's awesome, and everybody should do it. I'm just trying to build a bridge to get people to the point where they can afford that business coach, right? So that's that space that I'm trying to fill. And it's it's always

evolving and adapting. And so what it is today is maybe not what it's going to be tomorrow, but that's kind of my overall vision is to help people overcome the odds of failure, which we both know is statistically way too high, to not only survive, but then start to thrive and get to the point where they can they can get where they want to go.

it's kind of this transition there. Everything that you're building, would you still want to build like a long term place for people to be, but just get them to the point and then stick around? What do you think about that?

different ways, which is really cool, right? But then when you start to get up to this point, you know, I'm not going to be able to tell a trademark attorney how to handle trademarks, right, or I'm not gonna be able to tell a financial adviser how to how to build their business, I actually advocate for belonging to two communities, you know, mine as kind of like your general entrepreneurial support community, and then another one that's really niche and specific

to your industry, where you're gonna have very different conversations there. So I think there's space for both. But yes, if someone graduates from this community, because they've reached this point of success, man, I am just, I'm in your corner, I'm celebrating that for you, right? Like, that's awesome. You beat the odds, you're enjoying entrepreneurship, it's had a meaningful impact on your life.

And I think that's awesome. That's like my mission. I think what will happen is that if people get to that point, by that point, 75 bucks or whatever it is, is like no big deal. And they're probably gonna stick around just now purely out of loyalty and wanting to pay it forward and help other people. And if they opt in to do that, then that's great. Those are the kinds of people I want around. But it's not some design where I want to just get my get my hooks into you and keep you around forever.

not necessary anymore. This is the happiest kind of churn that I've ever seen in my life is people graduating beyond needing the product. So this sounds like you're you have a different similar mindset here, too, as to if that is the success story, right? The success story is being at a point where you don't need the community anymore, at least not in a sense that it's like, necessary to your survival. You still need it for

different things. It's kind of the pyramids, right? The you know, the you know, which pyramid ticket escaping my mind right now.

control over, right? They had no expansive abundance mindset that just didn't work for them. But in our world now in the digital economy, or even just our economy that we're in an abundance mindset is extremely helpful, like sharing your knowledge, sharing your story, getting people involved getting their buy in, and then having them help you help them like that is that is the kind of a never ending cycle of growth, that people who don't have that experience would never think

about. It's a concept that is just unimaginable to them. So it's nice to have people in the community. And it's nice that you are building this community for people, I'm really, really happy to hear of this to know that this is a concept, because I am a first gen entrepreneur, but I write, but I've never expressly seen myself as one. It's nice to know that the concept exists. And now I have a phrase to describe it to people. That is That is really cool. And I think with this Where Where

can people find this community? Where can people find more about you? Because I think you're such a wonderful bridge into the community that is the bridge to their, their future capacity of paying somebody to help them with their business as a coach, like where can people go to find you?

here's what I'm gonna do. My website or the website for the first gen entrepreneurs community is first gen dot biz, and that's the number one S T G n dot biz. I'm just going to leave it at that because that is a living, breathing website that's going to change over time and you know, how we how we

position the community and all that is going to change. But if you just come away with that one thing, then we're going to continue to make more resources available with time, whether it's courses and newsletters and community and all these, you know, kind of cool things that we're building.

a name. So I'm thrilled to have it. Yeah,

This isn't Frou Frou stuff. It's like, I want to help the Bootstrappers the underdogs, the people that are doing this the hard way to succeed. And so I think I think we're both like, that's why we're hitting it off. So well. But thank you so much for having me on the show. An absolute

Any of these things, will help the show in the end. Thank you so much for listening today and have a great day. Bye bye.