#63 - Wayno

podcast on which we're gonna be talking about. This is one of my favorite interviews I've done in a long time. We just shoot the shit for an hour forty five something close to that about hip hop, about his career, about some of the history has been a part of his tell some crazy stories man. So Wayno Is on the podcast today. While you're listening, though, head on over to odd socksofficial dot com keyword bootleg keV at check out to save twenty percent off the flyest and most

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And let's get into this episode with WAYNEO. Legendary interview, great conversation, press play, relax, and let me know your thoughts on this one. Don't forget to rate the podcast on iTunes. If you're listening on iTunes, man rate that motherfucker for me. Please appreciate it. All right, let's get into It's the Boutlet Cap Podcast. Yo, Boutlet Cap Podcast Special guests. Man, the Homie Waino is here. Brother, Welcome, Welcome. Man.

We've been trying to make it happen for a while for a while, and I gotta I gotta go on record and apologize for my lateness today. Oh you're good man. I mean it's cool, but at the same time, it's like, bro, like I'm the person that, like everybody in my family knows, I don't play with time and I don't play with people time. So it's like I just have to stress that it's all good, man, it's all good. Congrats on

the new podcast. I checked out the first episode and then I checked out some of the third episode that just dropped yesterday. What give me like kind of the cause? You could have went a few different ways with like coming out of uh doing every day Struggle. I like the direction you took, but like kind of you know,

introspective conversations. I think that what's dope is like there's so many gems in these early episodes already just based on your background and like how you've lived your life and stuff, But like what made you go that direction? Not and not kind of go something similar to what you just came out of, because like, all right, so every day Struggle. I'm not trying to minimize nobody who's been a journalist that they haven't like that never was my dream, right, It never was my dream to be

on a sh show. I never wanted to be on camera, none of that. It's just like it kind of was the luck of the draw. I mean, it came at the right time and once I got into doing Once I got into doing content, a lot of people don't know that, Like, Bro, I'm the person that stays at the barbershop for two hours because we're gonna talk about basketball, right, We're gonna talk about family. We just that's what we

do in the barbershop. So I was like, I want to bring my perspective or the things that I'm into and the things I care about as opposed to just talking about music all day. Music is my life. It will never go anywhere, right, And for the people who are fans of my music commentary, I got shit coming

for that. But for what I wanted to do with Wayno's with hear Me at Waaenno was basically talk about what's going on in the world, share my perspective and share my stories so that people don't people think I dropped on the earth like when I did every day strougle. Right. For people who didn't know, like who you were, Like, they were like, who is this guy? Yeah, But even even with saying that who is this Guy's like, it's

a story to who this guy? It's not just mut it just like you know, me being a parent, me being a husband, me being a father, me being my mother's son. It's all these different things. That I wanted to talk to with people so that they could realize like who I am and feel like look at me and say, oh shit, like if he did it, I could do it, or if he did it, like shit, his story might inspire me where I'm at and make me want to go on my path and do what

I want to do. So that's why I did it. Yeah, because I had known you, because we had conversations about Davies when you were working with Dave, and then I saw you on There was that weird stretch after Joe Budden left Every Day Struggle when they had Star on there, and that shit was whack because it was almost like they're kind of both the same dude. There was like no voice or reason in the room. I'll say about star Bro. A lot of you know, the thing was Start.

A lot of people get Star fla Bro. I when I was in high school, I used to wake up early in the morning his Star No. I mean he's a radio legend. Yeah, But I think the thing is is that like because even me, I didn't know nothing about what I'm doing now right I started, But like Star I love Start for who he is. I loved him talk crazy but it's not the same platform. It's not the same platform. And I think when you have him and academics, it's almost like there's no like waste

of reason in the room. That's really your academics. He does have voice of reason, but everybody wants to combat it. I think the thing is is, like, you know, we accept the message depending on the messaging, and like some of the messages that he may have, if you be around him and you sit with him and you know him, it makes sense. But if you don't know him, you're like,

who the fuck is he to say something? Why should he have the right to It should be me, or it should be somebody else, So it should be And he says a lot of shit. That means he said a lot of shit that don't make sense to me. That's my brother, though I'll fuck with no matter what. Yeah, I think for me, like the academics thing, I think that I've always had a lot of respect for somebody who literally built up a platform from their bedroom, right, right,

you know what I mean? And you're right, Like he's had some wild shit that he'll say, Like, but you know what I learned from about the wild ship that he says, you gotta remember, Bro. It's like I always look at life as like life is a movie and everybody's playing roles in different roles. A lot of people don't know the roles that they're playing. He's fully aware of the role he's playing, and he knows how to leans into it. He leans into it. He knows how

to entertain within that role. See when I got Bro, when I got on every day struggle, I never entertained nobody in my life. Like I come from the hood. Like I don't say that as a mindset. It's not place I come from the hood. I come from like a certain type of background. So I don't understand. I understand being entertained, but I understand how to entertain. And that's what I learned from academics, Like you know what I mean. Like a lot of the silly shit he does,

he'll he'll wrap that around a message. But you you looking at all the other ship and you by the time you get to it, you're like, h he kind of got a point, But fuck him because we don't like him. That's all it really is. Bro. People just don't like him, but they don't know him. Yeah, I think that you know with him. I think there's just a few things that happened. I think that Freddi Gibbs thing, Gibbs the foot he should have about to give ship. Bro.

It's like we was a we did Complex con and we went to a party, me and him, and this is the first time we had ever been outside altogether because act don't go nowhere like people I'm gonna run that You're not running down him, no, because he don't go anywhere. So we went to this party it was on sunset and gives us this way he was there and gives us really cool like it wasn't no no bullshit. But this is prior to prior, prior to the crazes, craziness,

prior to the craziness. But I feel like Gibbs is smart in that space too, because he knows how to initate. Like he leaned into it, Bro into it. Man. He made the T shirts and he did the game of thrown ship. He put my face and that's like the memes was funny, Like it just was funny, you know what I mean? But act like you gotta remember, Bro, it's you take a dude who Yeah, he he built his you want to call it the empire. You want to call it some fun shit, whatever, you got to

call it the empire. Man, you got to give that man his respect. Everybody got a different definition, right. But whatever he built, he built it himself. And not only The thing that I respect about academics is before he went and bought himself this big old crazy house, he bought his mother house, right, you know what I mean. They came here from Jamaica. You know what I'm saying, Like he got good family. Like if you meet his I never met his mom, but his brother is my guy,

you know what I mean. You meet people around him, you'd be like, how the funk he turned? Like that? He just wanted to be entertainer. But he's like a wrestler. Bro. I was gonna say, he's like the Paul Hayman of hip hop, Like he just got that. You know, he's talking all that ship. But you know what's crazy about that conversation. You know how people always say rap is wrestling because they call it fake. Wrestling is more than realing rap than me. It's way more real and rap.

Because I don't disagree, because because I'm a big wrestling fan, So it is wrestlers. You actually get fucked up in wrestling breaker Lane, I went, I took my son. I was surprised my son at Monday Monday Night Raw like five years ago. The most entertaining shit IVE ever been in bad especially for sitting like like the but it

was nobody. It's amazing. But the reason why I said, because like the problem with a lot of artists is that they don't know that they're playing a role, you know what I mean, Like they you think that you're doing all this real ship when you're really trying to

sell a product. Did you see Joe Rogan talking with Undertaker about I watched that whole podcast that ship was because you couldn't tell me when I was a kid that Undertaker wasn't a demon possessing Paul Barrow was controlling them with the earth of course, like I really believed that. But think about like well he was talking about like when he he purposely when he would leave and like be in hotel rooms, he would purposely wear all black. Yeah, he leaned into the no matter what. So probably the

thing I had. The reason why I'm saying that is because it's like if a rapper, if an altercation happens and a rapper who raps a certain way doesn't react a certain way. Ayboy, all he faked he is, and he that if we was across the street and shots started flying and I seen on Schwarz Nigga, I'm not looking for him to pull out the Desert Eagle and start clapping, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, he played, He plays his role, and I feel like not enough

artists they don't have the freedom to just play their role. Well, that's that's that's an interesting conversation about that, right. I just we just released the interview with two eleven who used to be even from c Yeah. So he just actually put out a whole project, was like Gibbs on like nine records. It's like a little key like a

Freddie Gibbs collap album. But we were talking about the g Z Gucci versus battle and and he's got his problems with g Z, and he was saying essentially that GZ played himself, and I was like, well, look on

the other side of the coin, Jez. You know, g Z kind of showed a whole generation that you know, it's it's not very touchy, it's very touchy because someone died, somebody See that's the thing, right, Like everybody talks about what they would do in that situation, until in that situation, I've never My first friend that I ever had in life is tatted on my on my arm he got murdered. I don't know how I would feel if I saw

his killer, right, I don't. I know that. I know for a fact, I'm not trying to go to jail just to just to just to think that I'm making people happier, to give myself some satisfaction by taking his life. You got kids to worry about. I got a lot of shit. You got, you got your livelihood, your career, everything. So I'm not like I can't speak That's one thing I can't do. I can't speak for why, jeez, he felt like he should have did that. But I know

why Gucci did it. You know what I'm saying. I understand why he did it because if I'm on the other side of the coin, I probably would have did the same shit he did. Yeah, I think that, Like you said, like, there's there's like especially with these there's you know a lot of these kids in these younger generations, like you look like what's going on in Jacksonville with the hip hop ship right now so insane, Kep. I just say it as a black man, this shit this

heartens me to see. Like like when I was growing up listening to music, we grew up on the same music. I never heard nobody like like when it was when artists with this each other. They might have had a problem backstage or something, but it was more centered around you can it was more centered around the hip hop,

the bar. It's just like and sometimes there'd be some personal shit involved me, but it was never like I'm a But the thing about it is is what I be finding out with a lot of these stories is like, all right, these kids be getting into a lot of

this shit. When I was fourteen, I got into a lot of stupid shit, but like these kids, it'd be like y'all played basketball together, y'all used to sleep at each other's house or his hont is your mom best friend, and y'all had and then y'all now y'all just super murderers, like you know what I mean. And the thing about it is like nobody don't talk about like the post trauma with these kids go through. No everybody sit here

act like they just just murdering killer. They not talking about like the piece of theirself they lose when they might have did some shit like that, you know what I mean, they're waking up. Then I think about like the young and age kid who put out the record, Bro, it's so crazy, but I've met him in interview him and he seems like a nice, genuinely like sweet kid.

And then he puts out and then the other kid puts out a record on the graveyard of hit Like it's like, it's crazy, like where the hell don't know? But you know what's crazy most of the artists that I meet, because this is the thing. I've been in this ship, bro, I was I was really brought up in this ship around state property. I'm saying. So it's like, which we'll get to, yeah, but I would just say this before we get to that. Beanie Seagull might be the toughest person I ever met my life, you know

what I mean. When he when he was at that time, but who he was to everybody when we came out the house, because I lived with Beanie Siegua when he was in the house arrest, who he was we came out the house was a different person. Than when I knew him, how I knew him, how his mother knew him,

how his kid knew him. So I understand that, like a lot in hip hop, we got this fucking this wall built up that we don't want to break down, that we ain't got no feelings, we ain't got no remorse, we ain't got none of that, and that shit ain't

the case. And I feel like a lot of that ship as me being a black man, is at the detriment of the black man, you know what I mean, Because it's like I would hate to see younger age sort of whoever the other kid he's beefing with, Yeah, you're right, yeah, so I would confuse him, my yankee, But I would hate to see one of them go down for some crazy because at the end is bro, you're hurting, your mom's like you, and an opportunity. You

got an opportunity where you can build some shit. Music has changed so many people on this planet's lives where it's like you got the opportunity to like really change your life for generations. I don't know if they care about that, orenough, because it's hard to tell a young brother to see that. For I didn't see that far when I was like young, but I'll just be like, let's move your mic in the middle of you. Okay,

boom there we go. All right, okay better, But like I'm just like, yo, bro, y'all gotta start noticing that you have value when these record labels sign you and give you all that money, which ain't no money to them all. That's cute, right, but you have value. That's the only reason why they fucking with you. Because you have value. Now, that value that they see in you, you need to take that and build on that and

filter that into your family. Because bro, nothing's realid and putting your loved ones in a box, right, nothing's REALI than that shit. And if you leaning towards that type of shit, you ain't for nothing but destruction. Yeah. I just saw a clip of Master He on the Breakfast Club that I thought was dope, and he was kind of talking about how there was a lot of people who were saying, like, you know, did he had some responsibility for Black rob like you know, ship like that.

But then he kind of took that into the conversation of like, you know, the bigger labels, the you know, the Jimmy I Beans or the machines that are behind a lot of these artists, like they're not stepping in and like, you know, think about someone like NBA young boy who's who? Like like who? Like? You know what I mean? Like son, you know what I used to give and be a young boy a lot of flak until I watched that interview he did with injury they

and with hearing about that. That kid's story. He don't know his father right, he don't got the best relationship with his mother. He's raised by his grandmother. Can't he help? And I when I say help, he need to show to the lean on he needed. And it ain't just about the big homies everybody who it's like some yeah, it don't first of all, like everybody was a big

homie and a gangster or something like that. Like you just need a voice of reason around you and you don't need to it don'ts need a person that need to have money. The problem with artists is they don't a lot of them don't want to. They don't want to be helped, you know what I mean. A lot of them feel like they don't need to help. And

I'm not speaking for NBAM. I don't know what he of course brace that hasn't But like the ship with with Black Rob and all that and everybody holding, how can you hold did he responsible for somebody he gave an opportunity to years ago? Yeah right he twenty one years ago is when Life Story came out, right, Yeah, so I was a teenager at that time. I remember buying that album. Man, So he gave this guy opportunity. And I again I can't speak for specifically with his

because I don't know Black Rob story. Of course. All I'm saying is that you can't be held like just because you the guy with that's the problem. Everybody can look at his money and be like out in his pocket. Well you should have put him in rehab, or you should have put him in this, or you should put him in that, or you should have gave him this or gave him That's like brow, how much do you

want for yourself? Yeah? Also like if like everybody who did He's ever worked with ends up having like some real issues in life, like you can't like like that's so canarity? Charity can put you in poverty? Well that's just a crazy thing to expect from anybody, let alone Like did he or anybody like, yo, just be you know,

like how many artists did he ever worked with? You know what I'm saying, Like, I mean, it's been a lot, but I'm saying, but like if it's if he's responsible for you can't be held to the standard of everything that did not work. Cannot bros. It's no different than a basketball team, right, It's like okay, like like all right, who's the Delonte West? Mark Cuban, Shout out to him. Shout out to Mark. You didn't need to do that. He didn't need to do that, but he did it.

He did it. But everybody like, why don't Lebron go get him? Why don't this person go get him? Why don't that? First of all, you don't know if he's tried to or not, right. Secondly, that's not his responsibility. But thirdly, if Lebron's mom slept with Delonte West, that's the whole numb that's off the table. I don't hypothetically hypothetically hypothetically, but everybody that doesn't have it always talks about what they would do it. They lie. But I

even go call you a liar. You don't know what you would do unless you have out there people be like, yo, if I had ten million out, yeah right, If you got ten million, you got five million in taxes, yep, you got five million dollars, you got five million, then you got to figure. So we think of these because we traink to believe that these numbers are so large

and it's so much. But when you get to those levels, the level responsibility heightens, so it's like, yeah, you want to live like this, you want to keep maintaining living like this. You can't be helping everybody because you're trying to maintain you on yours. I think that's the biggest downfall of most artists that we see is that you'll

see them. I'll see them come up to the radio station and they'll have twenty motherfuckers with them and they're from like down South, So you know, that's twenty plane tickets, that's Lord knows how many hotel rooms, how much is the airbnb? How much is everyone's food? You know all that up. Only people I keep around me is people that I work with and when I'm working right right, because like a lot of my friends don't do it. I like my real friends that I grew up with

don't do what I do. But it's like, I'm not just going to keep you with me for shitting. Like if you if you're around me, you gotta be working on something. You can't just be sitting around. And I'm just saying, well, what you're gonna do, man, what you want to know? I'll take care of course, if it's something that we all are working to us. But I'm not just doing that. I'm also not a rapper, that's fair.

I'm also not a rapper, that's fair. You know, now that you're on the executive side, you're doing the A and R thing for for Asylum, which is under Warner Brothers. Asylum just got revamped last year because I remember you years ago, a couple of years okay, okay, okay, because before it was like I remember, it's like bun b and Mike Jones and Mike Jones Webby, Yeah, Boosy was dead diplomats at point, That's right. Cam was over there, was it? K Killless season was on there? Season over there.

I think the diplomatic community too, is on it. What is your kind of thought process of like, because Asylum is kind of like there's some independent ish vibes over there, even though it's under a major, but you've been in the industry for so long. I always tell artists like, whenever you're gonna sign, like you know, don't worry about the advance as much because I think a lot of

times people will rush to whoever's got the biggest upfront bag. Yeah, so the thing what my fun I was gonna say, Well, like to me, like, that's most of the time, it's a mistake because if you if you take that back too early, the deal is probably really shitty and you gotta be you gotta pay that money back. But you got to pay all money back, like like, it depends

where you're at in life. It depends on where you're in life, because I can't tell I can't tell a young brother that assisted that's from Harlem, where I'm from, or from Louisiana, or from Orlando or Chicago, in any place where it's poverty at don't take no money because I don't know what your circumstances is. And when somebody waving that in front of you, it's like, shit, what am I to do? So I learned this from my

good friend Steve Carlos STEVEO. Yeah, when you do a deal, you got to do a deal, like right now, I'm trying to buy a house, right, so good luck. Oh it's crazy, it's crazy. You should wait. I'm waiting. Fucked up right now? Is fucked up? You gotta you gotta, you gotta, you gotta. The thing is, while it might be fucked up for others, I don't have the same situation everybody fair enough, So certain things work for me that might not work for everybody. You gotta get in

where you fit in. You got to figure out what works for you best. When you do a deal, you have to do You got to understand first and foremost, when you sign a deal, it's not just a deal for you. That's a lot of artists think that, like when they sign a deal, it's my deal. No, it's both parties. It's for both parties. So when you're when you when you sign for that bread and you you all right, you got you got your your check, you could go get your nice car, you watch you have

a nice night at the club. You can do whatever whatever you want to do, move your mom, whatever the case may be. You have to You have to immediately put yourself in a position or put people around you. That's learned that know business or teaching you business, because if not, you're gonna get fucked over. It's like if I, like were talking about the house. I've been trying to buy one for a long time now. But if I go sign a bad deal for a house, right, you

think the bank gives a fuck. They're gonna get this back, regardless whether they put my shit in foreclosure. If I can't afford it one day and they put my shit in foreclosure and somebody buys it out and gets it or I pay it off, they gonna get there's the big corporation is gonna get this. But you got to learn how to work within the system. So I always tell people that, like, if you're gonna do a deal, it's not about that events, it's about the terms. About

the terms, it's about what's on paper. If I tell you, keV, I'm moving out to La kind of fucked up, but I need a place to stay, You're like, you know, wainit. No, I got you you come stay. We got this room, but you like it ain't no all right? If you ain't, if you ain't gonna pay no bills in here. I need you to pick my kids from school. I need you to wash my cars. I need you to do launching on Sundays when I want to go to the game and watch the game and shit, And I'm like no,

I'm like, now, I ain't doing all that shit. And you, like you the one that you need the fucking place to stay, not me. So a lot of people don't approach it with a certain type of mindset. Also, I think it's like based on the leverage, Like you said, it's it depends on who you are on your leverage.

So it's like, I know we've been talking about Gibbs, right, So it was like when Gibbs did his deal, I don't know none of his business, but I knew that when he did a deal with Warner, he had done so much groundwork and he puts so much work in that he knew that the deal. Like me from the outside looking at him, like, oh nah, he gonna be good. You know, he's not taking the deal because he's turned out somebody, right, he's taking sense. It makes sense business

wise for the business he's trying to run. And then it's like I can't tell you the amount of kids brought I've tried to sign and the deal might not be as much money, but it's better on the term side. And then they go across the street and sign this crazy fucking deal for all his money and nothing ever happens. The problem with these artists that they don't know is that, like the these are Fortune five hundred companies. They fucking When you think of Warner, don't think of Cardi B's

at Atlantic, think about the intellectual property of Batman in Greenland? Right? You think they give a fuck about you streaming? You just said you're not even a branch on the tree. You a leaf on the tree. Now, if if they could keep this business model running and going based on how good you do. The thing about it is they give you a million dollar deal. Guess what big big labels could lose thirty million dollars in the lights ain't gonna cut off. The water is still gonna run, It's

still gonna flush. But you feel special about that million. If you get a million dollar deal, I tell all of you go, if you fortunate enough to have somebody give you a million, which is not a million, they're probably gonna put five hundred thousand in your pocket. You got to pay everybody that's in your business. And then the other five hundred gonna go to making your project. Figure out how to make that five hundred that's working

towards your project work for you. Get some producers, sign them, get a studio, build it. That's what I tell everybody. I'm like, yo, do not let like, like, the biggest mistake I see artists doing is like getting into like one of the like pair amount and they're in there for twelve hours, and half of that time is fucking off eating food, smoking, And it's like, yo, like you could just you got that budget, take your money and make your own spot. Whatever they're paying for, they're paying

for the brand. It's like it's like I buy, I like, I buy. I'm not a big fan of like design and shiit, but like every now and like, I like, I love Louis Waton trainers, right Joints, that virgies just that I love it. It's like one of my favorite sneakers right now. But I would never buy a pair of Louis Vaitton socks. I don't never buy the socks right because I feel like, man, socks ain't that important for me to spend eight hundred dollars on right now,

Sneakers is all subjected I'm not a sneakerhead. I have a love for sneakers, two different things different. I'm not spending that on but it's people who will buy that just so that can show them because they rep in a brand. You care so much about the brand and brand and brand and brand and brand as opposed to getting the work done. And that's the difference in the studio. Shit, you can you can record in the same mics as the smaller studio as you can in a large studio.

Now the person Noel you can bring in, that's a whole different conversation, right, And that's when you start working with a major label or not, or you know what I mean, a production company that comes in and grabs a guy or not. Like you gotta you gotta do what works best for you. Nobody deals is like social Security numbers. Everybody got them. They all different. Yep, that's fair, man,

that's fair. So let's talk about for people who don't know. Obviously, you came into well, you were working in the mail room at at the Deaf Jam building originally, right, you got fired, got fire, and then you ended up chasing down Beanie's mom. You had her number, No, you had her number. That's not how I got in though, but okay, but you you would, Okay, So how'd you get into to Rockefeller? The way I got in the Rockefeller was Onmia.

I always say this, and I never worked with her per se, but omy Ellie McIntosh, she ran Jay Z's fan club fan fan Her sister Darren McIntosh worked at Rockefeller. They from Brooklyn. They all came up with Jay and all of them. What I did was is like I was the youngest person in the mill room. So I was like, I think seventeen or eighteen at the time. I was seventeen going on eighteen when I got a mill room. So the rest of the milling room is like, we got a few rappers in there, you know what

I'm saying. We got to everybody's like twenty five and older. But I'm the young guy. So when I come upstairs, like I'm I'm I'm always I've always had a personality to help, and it's been at it's been at my my uh, at my advantage and of my detriot. Yeah me too. But like so I'm the I'm the kid who's like, I'm so inquisitive because I seen a movie backstage and now like when I've seen Backstade, I'm seeing I'm in the build, I see Tai walking in one

they I see Leney, I've seeing these people. Part of that movie was shot in my hometown in Phoenix, and I was at that show when I was like wow, So I was like I was at that con right, right, right, So I went to see it with my friends in the movies. But like I'm like, I'm asking everybody like how can I like, how can I help? And AMI's like, yo,

you know, it's a fan club. So they shipping our t shirts, they shipping out CDs whatever that people will shout out to the days of fan clubs, to the fan clubs, the real fan right, you know what I mean, you re real dope ship. You know what I'm saying. You got to write a letter to get in the fan club. So I would help with shipping. So I would help with shipping. Omie used to give me tickets to go to like Jay concerts and shit like that.

And then I built the rapport with like I was on the floors that I had was the Royalty Department and murdered Ink was on that floor because there was a Universal building. And then you had what was the other floors. I had to bring a lot of in the office because people wasn't using the email like that. So it's in an office mail so it'd be like only be like, yo, take the second floor. Yeah, take this to my sister at Rockefeller right now. So I

go up the Rockefeller go up there. And I had built a rapport with them to where I had after I got fired from the mail room and I was trying to figure out my next steps. I was working at a little sneaker store on my hood and all that shit, and I quit that after I try I'm like, yo, I need to do this music shit. I just hit people up, like yo, can I. I didn't know what the internship was. Ro dropped out high school in ninth grade, so I didn't know. I didn't know what career even meant.

So I was just like, yo, can I help. I just helped, and I just sat around in the mill room. He was like the intern without even knowing he was the intern I was. I was just sitting in the office. And then I was sitting in the office, just sitting there doing whatever. Go get the food, Go get the sneakers, go get whatever, and then I got an internship, and then the internship ran a little bit. The beanie calling his mom shit that happened within that, and then I

ended up getting assistant in office. I was working on my man they face Gary Wow, who he just started the podcast, but he was what a damon bigs homies that he grew up with from down Sam Manhattan Ship. The days of interning and like really like really just like looking down and work, because that's how I got into it. I worked for free for two years of the radio station before I got like actually on the radio. Oh yeah, absolutely, you gotta put your work in. But

that shit is gone. Man. You know these kids because we're like entitlement generation is in full effect, no super entitlement. And I mean everybody needs to get money or they got to see immediate payoff or they're not. They're like yoah, that shit is crazy. That's why I don't be like, like my kids ship they get shipped. But then I'd be like, man, I ain't giving y'all like that, gotta work for that. Like this ship is an incentivized and

your allowance is an incentivized business. Allowance is a business. For me. What I'm saying like, my business manager has to cut my kids allowance. So it's like, oh, you you're not cleaning up. You're not cleaning up, you ain't cleaning your room, or you didn't take out the garbage, and now your allowance is not enough of you to get them piers of sneakers. So now you want me to go buy your pier sneakers. Now I ain't doing that ship fun that fuck that you got work for

yours all day. Man. So once you got into the A and R position, I know you said, you know, I think state property. I always. I got to interview being a couple of years ago, and that was like a real highlight for me because he was kind of exactly who I thought he was going to be. One of did not disappoint. And then even like I just had Young Chris on the show last My Dog. Yeah, he came in freestyle called a body. He's you know, he's one of the best that ever do that. Bro.

He came while while they came up to the station, Yeah, Young Chris with him, and I was like, while, he's my guy, but I was like, yo, fucking young Chris. Low Key so influential is mixtape run so underrated, Like those mixtapes that he put out, like kind of post the Rockefeller Error were so underrated. That was that was. That was me and him, man, because I was telling them, I was telling them about you, brother. I was telling them about the mixtape ship. Nobody listening. Fifty Cent came

and did all the ship. Then I was telling him about the internet shit I was on. I was on all hip hop. I was on sohh. I was in the forums, you know what I mean. I used to be. I learned forum shit by forum days. I was on the first while I learned forums before I got into music was being on Nike Talk, Yeah, Nike to. I used to be in there talking about sneakers and ship. Do you remember the forum of Realist nwords dot com. Yeah, oh my god. I got all my mixtapes and albums

off of there. That like when I started bootlegging mixtapes and CDs when I was like sixteen at the swap meet, I got everything off of there. Yeah yeah, yeah, bro. The admin's name was Porky. He had all the ship. Yeah. I know. I learned a lot of but that ship was like I was always I was like the real early hip hop Internet day, Okay, player chat rooms and

shit all that shit. Bro, man, Yo, they because they had forums on Black Planet day like people would be on social media, but they didn't know that they had forums for shit. So you go on. I used to be in the Yahoo when I'm fifteen. I was in Yahoo those chat rooms. I was buying Jordan's online when I was like fourteen years old. Bro, there was like a whole chat room era of just like my childhood. Like my older cousin was like nineteen and he was getting pussy off of chat rooms. It got wow wow bro.

And you can't even send pictures check to mill you a picture? Yeah, that ship is crazy. Nah. But your run with Rockefeller, you were kind of what year did you officially start, Like, were you like actually started to get a check from Rockefeller? What year was that? Two thousand and two? Like the end of two thousand and two, but I was there like two thousand, I think, like around the end of two thousand and one. And also I got a credit Shary Bryant, she's the president of

the Rock Nation right now. But me and Shary is close to age, you know what I mean. She is like a year or two younger than me, but not at but but but Shary Bro Shary was she was like an assistant to Carlen who was Dame j and Biggs assistant and she was a kid and she was running ship bro and like that was the person I called. But Shary is from Harlem, so that was the person I called. And Axek just come in to to the office and help. And she gave me she opened up that

door for me. Wow. I mean she told me like, yeah, come in. I pissed off mad times though because I was doing it I was supposed to be doing but it worked out in it. I feel like you were kind of around the era of when like there was probably some background issues maybe starting to fester because I mean Fellers, But we didn't, Bro, We really found that shit out like in the media. We didn't. Like, we didn't we had no idea. Like because I tell you

one thing, Bro, like one thing about Rockefeller. That shit was like it really was like a family if you was really because you had the people that worked there, and then you had the people who was like not too much like family, and you had the people that was really like family. Family, Like we was really tight knit and like I would be around Dame and Beans because we had were doing when we shooting Stay Property too.

I'm with Beans every single day, you know what I mean, because I ended up becoming from being an an R being like his personal assistant slash and R. So I'm around him all day and Dame is there and Bigs and we laughing, joking, and then later on that night, I might have got to go Toline and I see Jay and bleaking them and it's the same type of love. And I'm a kid, so I'm green. I'm just like I'm in heaven, bro, Like these are dudes that I

watched growing up and now I'm working with them. So it's like you never think it's gonna end, you know what I mean. So did you see that obviously? I mean the Drink Champs interview with Cam was pretty legendary to Yeah, Cam, that's another Cam was a person that gave me an opportunity to bro. Oh really, yeah, I don't think I was, but Cam, like one day I was in the office and Cam he walked in the office and like him and Jim walked in the office at the same time, and they look like they just

arguing and some shit. Yeah, and then he was like. He was like, yo, shorty, can't turn to me. He's like, yo, shorty, how much money you make at Rockefeller a week? I said two hundred dollars. He's like, come to diplomats like you four hundred. I was like all right, like immedia. I was like, all right, bro. So I get back to my block that night, I'm telling everybody, yo, this one come home with me is out and I'm from Harlem. Yeah.

So I got this tattoo on my hand because Kim had diplomat on his hand, just keeping it full disclosed, you know what I mean. Like I was influenced by these court So I get to the hood and I'm telling everybody old Ca and gave me his number that I'm calling him a hundred times and he ain't answered. But what had got me this ship with Cam was my mom was a job developer. So she worked at this company in the hood that like helped people in

the hood get skills to go on job interviews. So you you come into this program, you don't know how to talk, you know, know, how I look a person in their eyes, shake their hand. They teach you all of that. They teaching you like skills like word word, uh, whatever that ship is. I don't even know Microsoft word

all that ship. And this dude that he had helped with he had came home from from jail, was like an older dude from Cam Block, so he would always he knew me because I used to come come after, you know, after school, go see my mom, get some money for lunch, shit like that. And one day he asked me, like what I'm doing and I told him and he's like, Kim told you, how are you. I'm

like yeah. He called Caim and he called and Kim answered because I was calling him a hundred times, and he called Kim and Kim answered, and he was like, Yo, you know that kid that you met up at Rockefeller's name ain't no. I had braids at the time he got the Brais's like yeah, yeah, He's like yo, he like look out for him. His mom looked out for me. He was like I got you, I got you. And that's how like Caim he ended up calling me. I was working for diplomats for like two months wow, and

went back to Rockefeller. It was like I was doing well. He had told like Cam had told the story in the drink Champs that there might have been some sort of animosity between him and Beanie. It was like, bro, is that something you being so close to being? Like, was that something that was real? Hell yeah, bro, they was, Yo, let me tell you something all right. Look, so you see how like right now, like Drake is the best, like he great at subs, like he great at like

underlying ship. Yeah he might him and Hope might be the two best. Yes, like you got to study that, bro, Jay was the best. It's ship that I could tell you that Jay talking about people that you would never

know because he used to tell like Chris Young. Chris was really close to Ja, so he would hear some people might say Jay got some flow, but listen, everybody get me of course, of course, of course, but look he would Chris would be like yo, like we'd being in the in the room and J player ship and then he'd go tell Chris some and chrisy be like, yo, Jay said that line is about such and such a So they was always throwing shots and ship, you know

what I mean, like little subtle shit. But yeah, it ended up coming to a head, bro, because like, like no, they didn't really know that like a lot of people at Rockefeller didn't know. Jay didn't know I was from Harlem until I got the tached on my hand because I used to be a christ of them all the time. He's like, I thought you was from Philly. So my nickname was Hall in Philly. Yeah, they used to call

they didn't give me that nickname. It was Hall in Philly because I used to be with the Philly dudes all the time. But like it got a little when he was Cam's right when it when it came to that that executive position. Yeah, Beans wasn't jagging a ship. I mean it was, but yeah, because it seemed as if nobody, like like Cam be in the getting that position at Rockefeller kind of hit everybody out of it. I mean it would, yeah, it definitely would. Like you think,

all right, Bean's been here since ninety eight. Yeah, bleak been there since before they had the logo. You know what I'm saying. And here cut Kim. He been here for two years. But Camp, I ain't gonna lie, and Cam turned that ship up. Cam took full advantage of his opportunity, you know what I mean. He took that shit he was saying about how they made the office. He made his own office, Like even even down to coming in the office and ask me how much I may get paid and he's like, I give you four

hundred dollars. And then I was in his I would come to his crib. He had a crib in Jersey. I was gonna go to like this condo he had in Jersey and just burn CDs all day. Wow, you know I mean mixtape, Yeah, the Diplomat mixtapes. I was burnt. If you had a Diplomat mix tape, I probably burned at least five thousand. You have the Tower, Yeah, the Tower, Yeah, Duke. The guy had all them shits, like five of them ships and they burning five at a time. And I'm just but they got boring for me. I wanted to

be in the studio. So that's why I kind of gave up on that ship. But you know, yeah, like Cam turn that shit up for two years, and now that makes sense. Somebody come. They put the work in on the executive side where you break. Cam put Joel's on his first single, his first two singles like if you Wasn't from Harlem, listening to the DJ clue in case Lay and Fucking who Else. Around that time, I can't remember with DJ Envy, you didn't know who Jewell's

was like that, you know what I mean. But he put him because Juel's Jewels was known for rapping in the hood, you know what I mean. But he put duels on on and broke him as an artist before he had his first single. So he's doing the executive

side of things. So yeah, he deserved that position. But that's a hard phillis well when you're Beans and yeah, yeah you said that you were roommates when you live with Beanie when he was on house arrest, and I always have the shots and I got DJ Damagees from Philly. We'll always butt heads on the Greatest of All Time talks and he'll always put Beanie like in his top ten and I'm like, bro, You're from Philly, so I respect it and listen and listen like Beanie's got classics,

and I think he's historically underrated. In that conversation, absolutely, Derek Angeletti said the really ship about Beans one time. He's like, yo, he like a real life dinosaur. He like you know how like you hear about it like you hear his stories about the dinosaur. But if that ship if a Raptor walked in his room right now, everybody be like, oh shit, that's that's it. He's like

that's who he is. He like he a really like not that and so you know how the Balancer of he was like he old and not nothing like that. He just was like it's like a myth until you meet him. And I bro the what's that the Public Enemy mixtape? I remember that Green Lantern was the DJ, right yeah, I got yeah, I did that mixtape. I learned I saw I saw that mixtape with the Swami. I learned how to how I got my name bout

leg and everybody. We was in a crib. That's we was in a crib and we was like I had learned how to record, right like I learned pro tow. Its just the basics of it. And he had this freestyle of a Public Enemy beat. And then I was just sitting in the crib one day and I was like, Yo, you should call your ship like public Enemy. I said, we should make like the It was a picture that he we did for like a state property photo shoot, and it was like it almost mimicked like the what

was that the Public Enemy logo? I was like, we should make it like the logo, but just have you in the joint. And he was like, all right, we're gonna do it. And then the reason why we did the ship with green Land is because we was listening to champions Hit every day Green Lanterns mixtape, but him and him and Kiss had in rec side. But Bro, we was listening Beans. We just listening that shit every day. Beings like, yah, I gotta, I gotta, I'll do kiss

Bro Like He's like, Yo, this kisshit is crazy. We gotta. So we did. We did that, and I an artist, you know I have a great make me and the crib. You me and him in the crib? Bro? What because that was uh, you know, I don't know what it what it was about Beans? You know, I know he had some issues with his voice later on, but like you know, he had his legal problems, but it seems like shit just kind of hit a wall for Beanie. What do you think happened to like his career. I

think that the Rockefeller split up. I think well, I'll say I'll say honestly, Bro, and Beans like he'll respect this because like I love him, bro, like I'm Muslim. I took my ship hot to his living room, Like that's how close we are. We might not see each other the time, but that's my brother life. I say, from my perspective is that he never really took the

time to learn the business. Now, he was a great asset to the business, but as far as like, I always had this thing in my mind where I felt like when Jay said he got rid of was gonna get rid of Rockefeller, he would have gave all the Philly he loved him bro Like, I seen Jay show more favoritism to the Philly dudes than the Brooklyn dudes sometimes, you know what I mean, through like bleak Lives, I

have felt that way. Though from a fan's perspective, I think Jay was just he really loved like the grittiness of their rap style and how real it was and their perspective. But think about it, everyone, I mean, young young guns dropped out, Freeway dropped out, like you know, I think I just think that beans and then not. I don't want to just say he didn't learn it. I felt like, you know, he didn't have I can't say he didn't have the right personnel because it's people

that I know that was around him. But again, I was a kid at that time. I can't speak for how they was handling business because I just when I wasn't supposed to be in the room, I walk out. Still to this day, Bro, if I if I came into your studio and you was having a conversation, I don't even walk in the room. I know, like if you tell, if you give me the if I if it's permissible for me to be there, I'll be there. But I stayed at my place. So a lot of

shit that was going on. When certain conversations be had, I walk out because it ain't my place to be in there. So I yeah, I think with beans, at least from a fan's perspective perspective, it just kind of felt like he didn't leave the streets all the way alone. And that's another to his detriment. Possibly this is why I be saying about the streets. Man, it's like we you love the streets when you've growing up, well when you when you're young, and like if you live in

that life, but when you get older. But I guarantee everybody and I got you. I got homies that like did fifteen years in prison, biggest gangster in the jail, biggest gangster in the street and they like, man, I'm not doing no like I made a mistake. What I mean, I can't change it. But that shit is a mistake, Bro, and I and the marketing aspect of music that involves the streets is it looks it looks cool, it looks cool to you facing and and also it helps sell records.

It does, but it does. But I don't know, Man, that shit is. Music is a hard thing for me to deal with sometimes cause I be feeling like sometimes that I'm I'm a part of the shit that I don't agree with a lot. Because as much as I'm saying all of this like righteous sound and shit, I still love songs about people killing people, of course, you know what I mean. Like, I just I don't know. It's like, you know when people say, oh you, what's

the word contradicting? Being contradicted and being a hypocrite, hypocritical shit, being a hypocrite. I feel like that's almost a part of being human, because like you feel different times, you feel different ways of different times. You don't always Sometimes, Bro, I wake up and I want the world to end, and sometimes I want to save the world, you know what I mean? But it's just how I deal with it,

especially being in the music industry. Like it said, you could totally feel that, like man, like you know, I don't like the way this shit is going, but still enjoy a record that like the Pop Smoke shit bro That shit made me not want to sign no gang banger ever again. I never I mean I didn't sign Pop Smoke, but the guys that he was signed to, like Rico Beats, that's one of my closest in music,

like and beyond music. That's my man. Like he a producer, but me and Rico we met at a time before I even met East, and we was trying to like we just befriended each other and we was trying to figure out what I thing was gonna be. And then I had got East. He still was producing, he had got his job at Death Gym. We signed a few acts, they didn't work. Shit was And then when he found Pop, it felt like a win for me because seeing him so happy and seeing him now he's buying jewelry every week.

It was such a celebration. And then like I only met Pop one time, but like I had a conversation with him in a DM one time, and like just seeing the trajectory he was on, and he saluted me forgetting the job at Asylumn. He like, yo, big bro, Like that's amazing because he told me he was to watch every day struggle. He's like, that's dope. And it's

that third when that shit happened with him. I didn't even know the kid personally, but that shit happened, I was like, all right, what are we doing with And to be fair, he didn't even get killed over no gang shit, no, but he got killed from that lifestyle lifestyle. So it's just like, what the fuck are we What are your yeah, I mean, what are your thoughts about? You know? Because right now I just I just spent the whole week out New York and I was shooting

with Dusty Locine, Ross Wish and Ron Suno. But the whole Brooklyn gang ship is crazy, bro. I mean, I'll tell you this. When it comes to gangs, Brooklyn always been crazy because like when when Blood, like when Blood popped off in New York and Cribbman popped off in New York, like first of all in New York. But these guys are getting like like if you listen to these records like between the the woo's and the and

all that shit. I don't know. So look, I'm just speaking like from when I was when I was a teenager, bro, Like if you was a crip in New York, it was tough because New York is a blood like you know, Yeah, I always think of New York as like wrong. I just think of Jim Jones like l A. L A is a cryp for sure, city New York. But the thing about the ship in New York is in prison, bloods run everything. Crips ain't the same with the crip.

So the thing is is like for me on the outside looking in, I see what I seen in the nineties now, like in the nineties when game ship popped off in New York because it was coming from out of jails. Bloods came from out of jail. When it came to the streets, it was bad because the people was adapting a jail mentality before going to jail, so

and and how they acted militant all that shit. And then like seeing these kids now, I just be like, yo, bro, even when I think about these like when when I be talking to dudes from from La Yeah, and like some of them like they they gangsters respect gangsters around glow, but like they a lot of them that don't jack, like you know, bloods or crips over there. I'd be like, Yo, that's y'all fault. Like that's your kids, bro, Like that's

that's offspring of you. So it's like seeing this ship, bro, it just a lot of it rubs me the wrong way. In Brooklyn, you got little kids getting hit with strays and ship. That shit just happened while we were out there. We were just in uh where where did it happen at? No, No, I was in Brooklyn. There was some some some kid got hit. There was a shootout and some I think little girl in the chest, yeah right, little boys something Yeah, right outside of a liquor store. Oh no, bro. But

that's the thing. It's like I don't know because you know, I don't. I don't sit on like I'm born in eighty two. My generation be acting like we sit on this this pedestal where we had everything right when we didn't. You know, of course there was just not social media. It was not social media. But it's like even the rationalization of like why things were done, it's still don't make no sense. But it's like now, it's like it's even I think it's even worse now because it's like

the name recognition amongst your peers. I got a fourteen I got a ninety year old daughter. I got a fourteen year old son. So it's like I be telling my son all the time, bro, like like our a friend that went to jail for attempting murder and he just was telling me, he like, owayne, I belonged to myself for the first time. He just got off of papers and he like, I just I belong to myself for the first three years. How crazy is that? And I'm telling my son, I'm like, Yo, do you hear it?

I say, Bro, I tell my son, like, yo, he shot somebody when he was eighteen and he's just forty and he's now finally free of the system. He's forty. Bro. I'm like, you don't, that's not a path you see because his friend, Yo, Bro, my son certain kids that was on his basketball au team. I didn't see any instagrams they be carrying him as this shit. I'm be like, this is crazy fuck And I don't even know why, but I know that a lot It plays into the

music and the lifestyle. And it's a lot of misinformation that that spread. I mean, it's a lot of misinformation. I just be trying to do my part because I feel like you change the world by changing one person's perspective. Is that something that you still kind of carry with you as far as like the type of artists you look to look to sign because you said, like after Pop had died, you kind of were like, I don't want to but I love authenticity. You also want to

do your job. I want to do my job, but that's the tough thing about being in the music. You gotta do it all. Yeah, you got it. Like now. At the same time, like from a business standpoint, the problem with businessman. Business ain't got nothing to do with feelings or morals. There's nothing to do with morals, has nothing to do with feelings because the same like, that's why people that be vegan be tweaking out about chickens, you feel me like, because they feelings and their morals

is in it when they're talking about life. Some people don't think like that, but I feel like rap is almost like a fucking slaughter house. Yeah, it's crazy, it is, bro it is because it's like I'll just be on some ship like this, Like I'll be trying to tell every young artist that I know be in the street. I'll be like, yo, listen, bro, Like you don't want to go down that path. Bro. Like even with beans when he got the shot that he took that he lost his voice, it wasn't even intended for him. Were

you around at that time? I wasn't around him at that time. I mean we always, I always, I always speak to him. I speak to him once a year at least, But like, I wasn't around him at that time. I'm also like younger than him, so like I mean he did. I didn't really have too much influence on telling him what to do, of course, But at the same time, it's like that wasn't even intended for him. But you see how shit happens just being around that ship.

You never know. You can wake up to you can wake up today and it could be you gotta you gotta watch, you gotta watch the You gotta watch what you put out in his world. Bro, you gotta watch what you put out in his world. That's a fact. Were you around during the Kiss Beanie ship? Yeah, you know the craziest shit is I always, I mean, listen, oh wow, I always. I've talked to Kiss about it.

I've talked to Beanie about it, and I always say that that's probably the closest back and forth because I depending on where someone's from or who you ask or who they're I thought both of them one. I thought that we was going to die or we was gonna kill one of them. I switched because at the end, because because at that time, nobody was realer than Beanie Siegull. Let me on the Locks and Yonkers. Beans. I love Beans. Beans had us train us the Young Guns like I was.

You could basically say the Young Guns was a gang within state property bro because they was from their own part of town in Philly. They had us train Bro like like Beans had us trained and I. I used to really sit here, like, oh, Jade, Kiss is one of my favorite reps, Like the Locks broke. I don't

know the man I would be without the Locks. Real ship I'm talking about we all the streets is like the words is in my DNA and who I am as a person, So like I used to be sitting here like we had a we had a we had a situation one time with them though happened. We was in you remember Sonny, she used to be on ninety seven. She's Sunday like h G TV show food and all that. But Sonny had a birthday party in Brooklyn and and she had this birthday party in Brooklyn and Jada was

hosting it. But she wanted the young guys at the time, we had can Start, Won't Stop, so we they was hot that everybody was booking them, so she wanted to do Can't Start, Won't Stop. So we we had a show in v A, and they was like, by the time we get there, maybe kissing them and be out of there. So we get up to we get the VA. I mean, we get to Brooklyn from va and some Philly dudes came and all that ship or whatever and pauls and uh that was crazy. But we get there

and kissing. Somebody from Sunny's team came to our car and was like, hey, jad kiss is still here. Kuja wait until he leaves to come in like and they was like, yo, we don't want no problems. So Chris was like yeah right, and then Chris sat there and while we're sitting there, like all these cars pull up

and we see like jay Hood get out. Fucking Styles was locked up at the time, but jay Hood was there, a fucking chic and a bunch of dudes, right, So Chris was like, fuck that, we're going in there, right. So they they go into the they going to the club. They're all walking out with kiss and uh Chris, Chris and Eve manager was like, yo, don't say nothing, Like, don't say nothing of them. Let them get ahead, yo. They came outside and we on the line way to

get searched. I don't know who it was, but one of them was like, man, fuck all that deep block nigga. What your niggas will do? Right? So then we get into this spat going back and forth and then like Chris is standing there, he getting searched in the like jay Hood, him, him and jay Hood is like saying shit through each other and all that, like this ain't no social media. Nobody's seen this happen. We get in the room, we get into the studio and were getting there.

I don't know what to this dude from Philly who he was. I seen him one time that day. I never seen him again. It was all of us in the room. He said. It was like fifteen of us in the room. He said, yo, who and he ain't bring a burner? Like four or five people raise their hand. He said, I got burner for everybody who ain't bring one. He bro, I swear, I thought we was gonna die that night. Man. He like, Yo, when we come outside, we're not letting nothing. We're going all the way right.

I'm like what, I'm like the fuck? I'm like, all right, did he give you a burner? I'm not gonna say if what he gave me or he didn't. Okay, okay, But we walk outside. I think by that time they had left, and then we go to baseline. We had fun. That was it. But like, damn, bro, I thought like we had a couple. Yeah, we had a couple, like little. The crazy thing about that is like I didn't know. I didn't know Jada kiss at the time. Jada kiss my man. I love kiss his son j One, that's

my man. I love him, chic all of them bro like Styles. Ironically, when Styles and Styles came home, who called my phone? I think Green Lantin called my phone and Styles on the phone. He's like, y'all got Styles be on the phone, and he like he won't to talk to Mac, and I put them on the phone. They spoke on my phone, you know what I mean. And then from there, years later, me and Styles we built our brotherhood. I love Styles, I love his wife, his son. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like it's

just crazy how life works out. But yeah, it's a few times, bro. But I always think back to that time that Jada went to the power show in Philly, like the big Summer Jam or whatever. Yeah, yeah, we did that. We did that before Jay and I's did they ship Nobody the same thing at ninety seven Summer Jam in New York. We did it at Powerhouse. Okay, so the thing was we did kiss, was doing Powerhouse in Philly. In Philly, Yeah, nobody knew Beans was dead.

Beans put on a Halloween mass and he walked out on the stage and when he was just at the same show, not not the one you talking about when he dissed them. This is years later. That happened in like two. This happened in like five, when five, when Beans came home, we do Powerhouse and Kiss. This is what I'm saying. People be thinking that Jay took everything from them, But like Jay did, I declare war. After that when he brought out nas So when Beans, it

was on Halloween, we came out Beans. He opened up his jacket and everybody's in the aspe chain and he took the mask off and then they did reservoir dogs. That's the first time that they had done something together. This is before Jay and Nis reconciled they ship. So that was when they reconciled their ship. That's when they reconciled they ship. But they had talked prior they reconciled

their ship. When when when Beans had came home, do you remember, like uh man, just that back and forth just bars wise was so crazy, like two freestyles were so crazy, Like no, but you don't remember all the ones in between. Nah, I just remember the two big ones because I mean, as I was on Naster download D when he said when Beans is like he's said, this cat still live in his mother house and my basement bigger than his mother house. And I ain't talking

about my mother house on my brother house. I'm talking about the other house. You ain't never hear that, nah, bro. Now, they was going crazy. They was going my favorite this and all of that was styles on Wait a minute, yeah, I feel like like at that time, unless MP had gotten into a bee for somebody, it was like probably the too craziest like people you would think were someone someone's gonna die. Yeah, I know, I really, Bro, I was.

It's like it's like it's like being on a battlefield almost like I don't know what it is to be on a battlefield in war, but I know, Bro, Like we came into a lot of clothes, Like I love state property all y'all because y'all put my life in danger mad times. I love all of them though, but Bro, working with them was dangerous. Bro, what was the original like origin of their issue? Who stay property of? Yeah? Of kissing Beanie? I don't know. I don't fucking know.

I have no idea, Bro, I have no idea. I just knew that whatever whatever when I worked at when I worked with beans in them, whatever they was with, you better be with that. Whatever he on, you better

be on that too. You ain't you can't be around us if you ain't so crazy too, because talking to damn it, she was always like, dude, everyone's favorite rapper that is not being Seagull from Philly and that era was the kiss Absolutely he was like he was like the biggest dude in Philly, like people love kiss is like fucking. I would not call him a guy. I don't use that term with people with men. But like

he was, like yeah, Bro, he was. I would just say everybody that come from that error, Bro, Jada kissed me is a lot to us if you was born in the eighties and you grew up in the nineties. Bro. The whole locks though, Bro, like the Locks man, Like, like my tattoo on my neck, it stands for respect over money. Style said that shit in a freestyle. That's

why I tattooed that shit on my neck. I live by their words, bro, because you know it was the Locks for me was this It's like I'm coming outside, I don't have the relate ship with my father that I should have, and I'm going to school and coming home and trying to navigate life as a teenager in the nineties when the streets is crazy. I listened to the Locks all day. They teaching me about honoring cold

and all that shit. Aside from what I'm learning with my homies, you know what I'm saying, Like they taught me honoring Cold like their music, so they mean everything to us, Like, however, Houston people feel for fucking one being PIMPSI for U GK. Yeah, that's how New York if you was born at that time, that's how we feel about the Locks. Locks is an so that's the highest And I love Wutin Clan to death, but they're not the same for me as the Locks. And yeah,

I love the Loes. Yeah, the Locks definitely had more I feel like practical life lessons absolutely bro absolutely in their music. We were talking earlier. We were talking about our love for Loupe. I was talking about like my favorite rappers, which is different than the greatest Rappers list. Yeah, and my favorite rapper list always pisses people off. But you were like, yo, I had Loupe in my top five for a minutes at some point in time, Like who else is in your top five? It always changes,

Like right now, who's your top five favorite rappers? Right all time favorite? Right now? This is it, right now, the best, right now, just right now, like that you actually fuck with, not not like that I actually fun with all right, So look I'll be taking like I ain't on front, bro. I never met Drinke and we we ain't the best of friends. Drake that might not like me too much, but whatever, Drake the best. He

the best right now, Rapper, that's fair? After that ship, Rapper, I gotta put I put a little baby in there. Gotta give a little baby in there. And this is the first time I've ever done like a current drink because my top five is always my top five all the time. But I put like, hmmm, rapper. See, I don't know where to put him at, but I gotta put Conway in there. Conway is my favorite guy in Grisella,

and I love all three, yeah, but not Conway. There's something about Knyway's ability to convey pain on songs that like, it's Conway. You know what I love about Conway? Conway he knows how to flow, he knows how to like, he got punch lines, he gott he got got it all, man, he got it all. But Benny. But I feel like right there, it's certain versus that Benny got thats just like guys don't bleed. That's that verse on that Benny is is like god level MC as well. They're both Jedi. Yeah,

they're both Jedi. See, I don't so I don't have like like what I'm saying like, I don't have a ranking of like rappers right now because it's like, all right, what about the all time list? Do you say that that's pro consistent? Yeah? This is your favorite? Yeah, not like Jay all the time. Biggie uh J biggie nas Wayne and Kendrick, thank you, thank you for the Kendrick love. But I ain't gonna lie. I'm I'm I'm boycott and

Kendrick because he hasn't put out. Let me tell you something you can't You can't imagine that aunt of fun would I do with academics, bro? That amount of arguments I have people Kendrick. I have screaming matches about Kendrick Lamar and Lebron James all the time. But Kendrick, but like, I just love especially you being in New York. I bet you got heads with hell people about Kendrick. I feel like, not really, just because the thing about New York is, see you got Wayne over Kendrick Hell. Yeah?

Really yeah, bro, Wayne, Yo, this is the thing, man, It's like, and I'm my thing is Kendrick's never missed. Wayne's missed a lot. Missing is all subjective, right, not really? But Wayne's got some black eyes on this. He does, but he's got classes, but so do Tupac. I got a lot of a lot of misses. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot, which is why, which is why Tupac's not in my top he's in my top tennis. But but like I got, I to put Wayne in Tupac in the same tier, nahn. Wayne is a better, way better

rapper than Tupac. He's a way better rapper. I don't. It's people that's probably sent me death threats for that. I don't give a fuck. Yo, listen, I've someone threat I said Tupac was overrated as an MC. I didn't say his music was overrated. I'm a huge POC fan, huge had posters of them on my walls. Did but I said that ship. I forget what interview was. And motherfuckers was dming my wife threatening to kill her dog. She had to make her page private. So so so look,

so people don't play about Tupac. Now, people don't play about Tupac. But I love Tupac too. But at the same time, it's like I stack people getting their feelings about Pac in their fit. It's two people, Pac and Kobe. You can't say nothing about because people I love Kobe's one of my favorite I love Kobe too. But I'm just saying, like, you know, Kobe fans don't people I don't know they not because I'm one of them people people,

I'm one of them. I'm definitely not problem. I'm definitely I'm definitely one of them people that was buying Kobe's when they was on sale and nobody was wearing for nobody was wearing them. Yeah I was. I actually got a pair of elite Kobe's like that because the dude that a house of who was like, Yo, you're the only person I ever seen body shits and wearing you can get him? And it was only like ten peers.

But yeah, the Tupac Tupac fans are very emotional. They are, but like I feel like, but Pak is a great artist. But see all time. It's hard to do all time because I gotta put Kanye. I don't know if he ain't Kanye is, But Kanye is in a class of Michael Jackson. I don't think that Tupac's in the class Mark. I think Kanye is in classic Let me ask you if you agree this. I think Kanye has the best discography in hip hop history? Fuck, who's got a better

disco history? Yes? Who's got a better discography? I think the only miss was Jesus Is King, And I mean yeah, he had some Jesus trash as juice for sure that he could have went. He could have went like O D Traps, like trapped soul meets gospel, and it would have been hard. I ran through that album once and never touched it again. Kanye fan, how you mess up with clips on? We ain't gonna go there, all right? So look so yeah, I ain't gonna front. He might got it? Bro? Who else got I mean? I think

I think close. I think the closest is Kendrick because Kendrick has no but Kendrick don't have the amount. Bro. Listen, Kendrick don't have the amount. Take Out Classics, take away Classics, and ghost Faces up there too. Take Out Classics, take out the classic word. Games got a nice discography. Game is one of the best rappers ever. If I wanted somebody to rap for twenty four hours straight because I was trying to win a prize, I'll go the game. Game rapper all day about anything but a right. I

love it, bro and I can't run away from it. Bro, gott stop playing with Drake. Bro see nah, Bro, I'm gonna keep it. Listen, And it's hard for me. It took me a long time because it's hard to listen. It's hard to put As a jay Z fan, it's hard to put anybody on the same level as Drake's up there. I equate Drake to the jay Z shit like this, Mike, to me, Michael Joan the greatest player person ever touches basketball, right, But Steph Stephen Stephen Curry

is the greatest person to ever shoot a basketball. Right. That's how I equate the Drake whole ship, because it's like and not that I'm Drake's the greatest hit maker ever, but this is what I'm saying. But but, but at the same time, I don't think anyone can perform more hits in a row than Drake. You know, it's the realist ship. You haven't been with a joke show. Of course, I only been the one, And I'm kind of a Drake hater low key like historically, I've never been a hater.

I may not agree with his actions, I'll say that I don't hate him. I wouldn't say a hater, but I have of him as an artist. I don't know him. I just don't. But Bro, I went to the Summer sixteen ship. I went to the Summer sixteen ship with him and him the future yep, I remember that Bro in Madison Square guard like floating, Yeah, because that wasn't the Ferrari, it was m Bro. I was dead. I was in in the Rise of right. Everybody's and everybody industry is in the Riser. I was standing next to

Charlomagne and me, and Charlomagne was like, damn right. Then he did this ship like you know you've been you know how Jay used to do this shit where he used to be like he plays songs and cut him off, play songs, cut them off. Bro. So I was waiting for Drake to do worst Behavior. I'm like, well, now, oh you remember he did that during that show where he's like it was like I couldn't believe it. No, I couldn't believe it. I s would have got you know,

he did, And that was I was waiting for worst behavior. Yo. He put on worst Behavior, and I'm and the great thing about being in the rises you can see everything right. And I was looking he played that ship for fifteen second. He's like, not fucking turn that shit off. I was like what And I can't remember what song he played after that, but I was like, nah, bro, like, well that's like on the tour he did with Migos where he was running across the fucking basketball basketball he was

just run quick. He just did quick features like tan in a row and like was like, I just want to remind y'all like, oh yeah, it was all, but this is what I'm saying. I think like the thing is like all right, look yeah, if you a Jay fan and you I'm a Biggie fan J fan. We also didn't mention Jay's best just discography and hip hop history, which is crazy. He's no but he he's him and Kanye for being fair or Drake, but I put Kanye gets a slight edge just because of producing. He gets

a slight edge, right, I agree? But yeah, J right, Like, because I was having this debate with academics and he was talking about hits and he was like, where I'm from is not a hit? I'm like, how's it not a hit? Right? I'm like, because bro, see you, I understand how he could say that But the reason why he says that is because you in the era with fifty cent have fucked up everything with the sales shit, where y'all equate how you interpret music based on what

it sells. So when well, I didn't know what gold of platinum even meant at all. I didn't know that it meant selling a million when I was a kid, Like think about fucking dark and hell is hot, bro, I didn't know, you know, dark, Flesh of my Flesh, Blood on my Blood. So three hundred and eighty seven thousand records the first week and did not have a single or a video that was both in the same year, both in this is what I'm saying. It's like, so I didn't know nothing about the sale shit, But people

like X ship was like Billboard. I'm like, so you let these people have no face, their system determined what's the best ship? Ever? Nah? Like you know what I mean, because I'm like, yo, Like, if Jay had to go hit for hit with somebody, he could go all day. But but one thing, I say, separate drink. But Drake, nobody can go hit for him with Drake. The problem with Drake is Drake gonna start pulling them ships from half court, like Steph, you're gonna start pulling that shit

from half court. And I still put I still have in my book Jay over Drake. Of course, of course he's I think with Drake, I think I think Drake is kind of like you said, how Steph Curry kind of came through and it's just like not fair with the change he changed the way the game's played, to change with the games. I think Drake has some things you could say about him. Obviously the writing ship, you know, yeah.

I also look at the way he responded to that and kind of like low Ki had me his career in a little chocol for a while, you know, like and but then I look at Drake and the push a thing, and how I was so disappointed that Drake never replied to push his fucking freestyles. Bro I ain't gonna lie though. It's like it was like he was in a very tough position. But I always used to say, you know what I always just say about Drake. I used to before him and push you at his issues.

I used to always say, like he needed to do a takeover, just attack everybody, he needed to just make a record. I always wanted Drake to make kind of like Kendrick's controllers, but he didn't. Kendrick then attack people, right, but he definitely he caught everybody. He was being nice. Yeah, it was. It was a polite Hey guys, I'm better than y'all. But I really feel like I don't know Kendrick, but I really feel like Kendrick believed that nobody could

fuck with him. I think that's still nobody. I don't I feel like rapping, but at the same time, that's what I'm saying. It's like when you start getting in the bars and quotables and hip hop is not just based on that. It's based on everything. It's based on everything. It's based on your presence and all that. And like it's like, now, bro, it's like the NBA. I'd be like, yo, they might as well just make the NBA the Christmas Game, the All Star Game in the playoffs because nobody plays

no more. I know, y'all got injuries and ship, but nobody don't fucking play this ship is crazy. And it's like that's how feeling about hip hop now. It's like people don't play as much as they used to. It's like, uh, we're growing up after we get a Woo Tang album, and then we get all these albums in between, and then another woos Sang album and more albums in between, and then another Wooing album. They still holding his face locks.

They did the same ship Locks album, Jadakiss Styles Chic, then d Block compilation, Jada Kiss again, and Styles and Chic. They kept doing They kept doing it all our favorite sucking the dog paumd Bro snooping them like snoop after he brought the dog Panty brought I had. I bought that east side of his album Aum was fired, Eastide I Sleeping Goldie Logan Trading. They had dress on it, you know what I'm saying. But I bought that east side of the album. Like they kept it consistent consistent.

Now it's like the incause you want to be like you consistent when you drop, but you dropped. It's like a solar clips, you know what I mean. Now, it's like we gotta wait so long and yeah, but that's the only thing with Like, I hope this next Kendrick album is crazy, I think. But that's the though. It's it's a gifting occurs because it's like for me, I don't I'm not expecting, like, I don't think that Kendrick

can outdo himself. I just think that every time he does something that hasn't been done, he doesn't out Like I don't feel like good Caad Mass City, Good Kid Mass. He is one of the greatest albums of all time, facts or in any genre. I agree, but like when you get to to Pimple Butterfly, I can't compare it to because there he was doing something totally different Butterfly the way he did it on a high level. Yeah, then damn, damn a classic album. I'm give a fuck

with nobody saying I think. I mean, I think all three Kendrick albums are classics. And let's not in Section eighty. Let's not like that was sweet. Section eighty was officially an album as well, so you couldn't get that. You

had to buy that on iTunes. And like I said, like I don't with these artists, it's like we want to be entertained, so we don't know, like them sitting in stool one hundred hours like oh fuck, trying a bunch of shit and saying, I don't know if I'm a like Lauren Hill bro it was a reason why she on even made one album. She can never do that shit again. You could never do it again. And that piece of art, though, is one of the greatest

of all time. But if that's the art that we have to accept for and that's what we have, I'm cool with that. Do you think Drake? I think everyone would say that Take Care is a classic? Not everyone, because I personally don't think he's got an undeniable classic. Yeah, take his not take his undeniable classic, bro, I'm saying just I feel like it's a undeniable I think that no, no no, but listen, but listen, Like, I think that there's not a consensus amongst everyone that that's a classic.

I think that I think that I would say it's a classic personally, but I don't think it's a consensus, right, Like I feel like there's albums like nobody's ever gonna tell you Get richard Ie Trent isn't a classic, Like anybody who you respecting hip hop would never ever say, but they're not tell you why it's our standard. We're from the same I'm only a couple years older than you, but we're from the same era of when we learned this idea of what the classic was, and then we

think about our classics. I used to think like, if you can't make something the same as the infamous, it's not classic. If you can't make the same as reasonable doubt, it's not classic. And that's content is the subject matter is the singles and all of that only built for Cuban links. Music has changed, but I think since since Drakes come out, there's been classic albums that have came out.

So even though it's like two records on there, it's like, what my beautiful dark twist of fantasy good can mad say? I mean, we just talked about Kendricks, right, So it's other people records on there, like freestyles, but so Far Gone Bro So Far Gone is a classic body of work. I mean undeniable, that's undeniable. I think that when Drake came out with the singing shit, everybody was like, oh he saw for he is so he that So they was because hip hop was in a weird ass space.

So it's like they say he not hip hop. Like people consider Drake like you still got an army of like a fucking organization or army of people that still say, well, Drake's not hip hop because he sings right, and I just look at it. I didn't wasn't in that crowd, but I used to look at it like, well, he need to just make a whole album rapping, but he doesn't because it'd be nice though. Why though, but because look we rusted that chompipe and I was like, this

is great. He's shutting people up. Yeah, but I feel like Russ got more to proved than Drake. Definitely, Yeah, thats bro. Anybody who meet Russ, if you never knew who was, Like if I took rest of my hood, somebody I wouldn't say, like, they'd be like, yo, cool guy. But you know, I just mean like, if no one knew who he was, they'd be like, why you got this white boy with long hair? Yeah? But then you hear he grap his ass off. But that's what I'm saying.

It's like he got more approved than Drake. You're saying Drake doesn't have to do that because he's already got. I feel like, I feel like for the people who feel like he had, he's never gonna make them happy. They're never go yeah, because like honestly, even with me, because me and academics have had a lot of Drake debates, especially with the whole ship and all of that, and like,

I had to start looking. I took a lot of my Like I love Drake as an artist, Like I've listened to every one of his albums, all of them, Like, I mean, the only one I don't like is What's the first one? Thank Me Later? I don't like that album. It had like four joints on it. I wasn't crazy about more Life. I always crazy about life neither. But like, but I hate I hate the fact that, if you're reading this too late, is oh no, that's a mixtape.

No it's not. It's a fucking album. I can't enjoy that album the way everyone else does because, Bro, but but that album is like some of his best, especially just rapping. We just don't know who wrote it, you know what I'm saying. I know, but I ain't on front nowadays the people that everybody writing for them, I don't. I got over that, Bro, I had to get over it. It's tough. I had to get over it, because Bro, it's a different era when you being come on, bro,

you be in these studios. Well also you know how it is because you you're in studio sessions, and you realize everyone gets help, everybody, whether it's the homie in the corner who's like feed you in line. Because but but we come from that era of like if you was in the if you was in the lunch room, and you think Kendrick's getting help, I don't know. I don't know, man, I don't think. I don't know. Bro, I'm gonna keep it a hundred. I'm not I would.

I wouldn't say he is. Probably I would probably shut the thugs in on the inside, like you know what I mean. Yeah, my argument because I'm glad you say Kendrick's in your top five because I always tell people who have Biggie in their top five as well. I'm like, look, Biggie deserves to be in that conversation. But while he we got two albums from him, and they were both classics, Kendrick we've got if I can argue section eighty's a classic, but let's say take it section eighty three. He's got

three undenials not missed. He hasn't missed. So if you're gonna put Biggie in that conversation off a two albums, you gotta put Kendrick in that conversation with the greatest all time. Yeah. Absolutely, But I see the thing is is like, bro, we all realized how great people are when they're gone. You know what I'm saying, Like, we all realized how great people are when they're going. It's like, you look at DMX, right, and I wouldn't be mad if somebody had DMX's they number one on they Top five.

Of course, when I was a kid for two years as a child, probably three years, DMX was my favorite rapper in the world. I'm not even gonna lie and admit this to you. The Hard Knocked Life Tour, that Backstage movie when I was there, we probably stayed for two of jay Z's songs and then went home. Bro, we were there to see DMX. I did not understand for the life of me why DMX was going on before jay Z, and at that time that was volume two.

Hold yeah, that he had had them records. It was it was they toil and he had them records, right. That's like I remember jay came out, he had the car on stage, and I was like my cousin was like, hey, you want to go home and beat the traffic? And I was like we already saw DMX, metha Man and Redmond were just flying through the fucking sky. Let's go home. That's like, bro, like, who I like, what's this? That's like, I don't give nobody say like Future in my top ten.

I don't even know my top this Future in it. Really, I swear to guy, Bro, I don't care what nobody say. Ain't no Dick Ryan and none of that. I love Future, I know, I love I love Future, but I want to put I mean, I think for what he does, he's the greatest of all time. I don't know if there's a better club like club rapper you just want. But see this the thing. I don't even want to put him in club rapper because that's people always equate Future.

That's just a club rapper Future. His music is street ship. So he got some bro I know, but I'm talking about he got songs with like one of my favorite songs from Futures made myself like Streets Calling that mixtape, Streets Calling got mad Future shit on it where he rapping, and people never got onto that because they just got on the fucking at the same damn time and it was just held on it that and never listen to shit. If you got the tolerance or the time to listen

to future, canny fuck with Kendrick as a rapper. No, not saying that by no means, but if you listen to what he's saying and you like rap, you'd be like, oh, he got some ship in there, same as Thug. I feel the same way about Thug. I put low key put Thug above future. No, no, no, no, I'll take futures catalog. I just think that. I just think young Thug has I mean, futures are very versus how artists, but I feel like I've heard Thug like some of

his inflections and ship. I just don't know if anyone else can pull off some of the ship young Thug does. They can't. People can do it. People can do a cheap future impersonation. It's to me, no, they can't. Bro they can't. To me, Thug is like so the way he changes the beats for real, don't that's fair? Future like listening to Gangland, and like I said, I'm not saying, listen to Gangland and say this verse is not better than conways. I've been waiting for someone to put future

up in the verses too. I'm like, man, who play with him? I don't know who. I don't know who could bro. People don't even You see when he was making that room about Travis Scott and then the meme start, Oh yeah, Travis to get washed and I love Travis, but not against future future Brow Travis and young Thug would be good. That would be a good one. Travis, Travis, Travis, but future Bro they can't follow the future. So you got them top ten all time? Hell yeah, I got

because my ratchet. But that's what I'm saying, your personal favorites. That's your favorite, like like in your favorites, it's not necessarily like who you think is the greatest of all time. Yeah, it's not what I think is just your favorite. Yeah, he's my He's one of my favorite artists ever. But so is Ludacris. So is t I Man, Ludacris, so is Young Buck would have loved album Young Bucks first two second album, The World was one of the most

slept on albums ever made. The World is fucking was that they had the prices on my head record was that on the first the first Yeah, but the second album had some ships and that no one no one ever talks about Buck the world, Bro, Buck the World is hard. That was one that's probably one of the saddest things in hip hop for me was that young Buck never really kind of like he should have kept going.

Man Luda was that dude though. I'm so glad to hear Luda on that new record with Conway and that ship was yeah, and he held his own Nah, absolutely absolutely. I mean Luda, Bro. I think Luda is a mask. Like people don't be knowing. It's like I equate Lula like ice cube. Bro, He's the same thing as ice cube. Like when my when my son seeing straight out of Compton, he was like, that's ice cube, Like he couldn't believe it. He was like, that's how you got it from Yeah,

from Friday. We did that Friday all. I'm like, yeah, all about the Benjamin Like, yeah, that's ice Cube. Like they don't but I would have. I would have took the same route Lula, did you know what I mean? But Luda? People act like man Luda when he did What's the Ship that Ron Browns did for him? Blow it out your ass like dumb joints LU the first album, the first than Red Light DISTRICTT. What's the drink? Chicken? Yeah, chicken, beer, chicken and beer. Luda had bro he hits, hits, hits, hits,

any corrap with you? What's so this new podcast is just one of the new things that you have coming. It's just one new things. I don't I don't really talk about like inkas dry on certain shit. But I don't let I let the work speak for itself. You know, I do got some shit coming. I'm just I'm I'm still learning, bro, Like you know, the media career is giving me a new life and I'm only three years in.

I'm set, I'm on my music. Shit, I'm twenty in, right, I mean I started at shit eighteen, so I'm twenty in. I'm thirty eight. Not consistent, but I'm still like making up for the lost time I had. So I'm learning new shit. I'm working with new people. I got different perspectives.

I'm building new things, new ideas. I'm building a merch line for my company, Try and Go Offense, which was you know, my label, That's what Dave was signed to as a a management client, but I changed it to not just management and production company, to an aspirational inspirational lifestyle brand because like I want to inspire, you know, I mean I want to aspire to inspire, Like it's my duty for me to make people feel like they can.

That's why I started my podcast. I look at I think, what's about your podcast is it's kind of needed in this space. I think we get a lot of that from like Wallow's Instagram. Yeah, I love it. Real quick, I tell you about that, you know what I mean. Times Wallow cursed me out about doing the podcast. BROA Wallow was on my ass. Bro, I'll tell you one time Wallow And of course I met him through social media, but we got a lot of mutual friends in Philly,

a lot of mutual friends. And Wallow called me one day and was like, wait, no, I'm telling you right now, Bro, you're leaving so much money on the table. And he like, not just the money, but bro, he like, it's all these different things that you could do once you start. And he was telling me, but Willow talk fast, and he he gave me one call like every couple months, and he left me with that, and I was like, how do I do it? And I was scared to

do it. I'm not gonna lie, bro, I'm not gonna act like I was, like, I'm just this invincible person that has no flaws and has no what's that insecurities about? Shit? Like are they gonna like it? Do they like me? Does everybody just like academics on the show and don't fuck with me at all? I know he has his fan base, but I never built mine. And then I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'm gonna just jump off this diving board to see what happens. And

we've been doing. You know, hear Me Out with Wayne O is every Thursday. I'm saying Instagram is hear me out with Wayne O? It's the twitters hear me out? I mean, hear me wayno. And we're just gonna go, you know what I mean. We're gonna go and I'm gonna have like I will have. I would love to have you on a on a podcast, but we do. It's not gonna be so much centered around you. I might just bro you a father like, you know what I mean, we might just talk and talk about the

things that our kids is into. How you feel about this issue versus me. What I'm saying, I think it's that's missing like and I think that, Like I said, we get a lot of that from Wallow and from Billy, and from Gilly and and and and I wish they would do they. I used to love the podcast with No Interviews, and I've been killing the interview us because they make people so comfortable. Bro there, I tell them this all the time, Like their interviews are my favorite.

I mean, obviously, drink Champs is on a crazy run. I love bro Like the cam and the Pharrell interview are like two of my favorite interviews ever. I hope I get to do a drink and I don't even drink like that, but I hope I get to do a drink Champs one day, because like when Noori came to the the Rockefeller, remember he was signed the Rockefeller. Yo. Norri was one of the funniest people I've ever met

in my life. Though, Oh, because that was like that was like when it was like Rockefeller, like reggaetone, like no, that was before that. That was before that he signed to Regular. That was when Dame Dame has signed them, Games Chain and all that, and then he was already there. Basically he was signed to Death Jim and Death Jim wasn't really moving so and Rockefeller we had distro through

death jam. So it's just like all right, we could take it on and you know what I mean, do whatever with him and put the Rockefeller brand around and all that. And it's just like I was when I was around norriy. I was twenty one, So I don't forget nothing that happened because these are like the this is fucking Nori, you know what I mean. It's the greatest time of my life being around his guys. It's mad stories I got would be being around Norry that

he might not remember. Norri's Yeah. Norri is uh like the sweetest dude. But he's also like when you think of like some of the stories he's been involved with, you're like, we want to Like I always say him, him and Fat Joe are like some of the biggest goons to ever fucking vat. Yeah, Fat Joe. Fat Joe was went to kindergarten with my sister. Yeah, I just all I've heard so many like vocal stories about Fat Joe. I used to work with DJ DJ christ John when I was when I was on the radio on Tampa.

He used to tell me the craziest Forest projects. Bro Fat Joe's story how they would move was like some real terrorists the name but the name called terrorst Squad, Like Jesus, like, we don't take these brands serious until it say smacks mighty head off. Yeah, man state property that that that's property of the state. Beans was calling the ship criminal records. But I'm just saying, look what

you manifest when you do that. Feel fortunately, fortunately d block you know, d block cell block like it's it's I get why because it was authentic to the to the artist and a person. But at the same time, it's like, now we're getting older, we're not looking at it like that. Hey, what was the biggest time you ever kind of disagreed with some academic state where you kind of had to like, you know nine the six nine thing. Yeah, did you guys have off of the

record conversations about it? We had mad conversations about it, but we had we had one conversation. We had one conversation that got a little crazy. They had to take a lot of it out. I was wild on video. But that's only the reason why is because it's like it's certain brothers and sisters that like, you know, they

attached theyself to that. You know that that brotherhood and I know them and we're tight, and like seeing seeing how he was treating that whole thing, seeing how sixnin was treating that whole ship, I always felt that six nine could have been like the most successful artists without doing that. But also he was around a bunch of dudes that didn't know business. You know what I'm saying, Like these dudes is they they they serious people in the street that never been in They've been around music,

but never had the ball in their hand. So it's like I felt like, yeah, he used them, they used them, but he used them like it ain't it ain't one side like yeah, And the thing about it is, bro it ain't even about I don't agree when it comes to like, you know, I ain't in the street right now. I don't give a fuck about who snitching on who know why? Because I ain't in the street. That ain't

my lifestyle. But like I've been in situations where I had to stop talking to friends I grew up with because they chose a certain life when I was trying to live a certain life. So that rubs me a certain way. I got friends that did fifteen some years because somebody told on them. You know what I mean, It's not even about just that, it's about the prevention. It's about not putting yourself in a situation to do that.

So I would never I'm not gonna tell no kid if he get locked up, where he or she should do. That's for them to decide. What I'm gonna tell you is, how about we get you more focused on things that will not put you in a position to get locked up. That's what I'm about, being proactive, not reactive. Because once once a kid goes to jail or a kid passes, everybody's all sad and everybody got all this that and

the third we need more prevention. And I felt like with dudes, you know, was doing whatever was like just perpetual, like you was. Yeah, a lot of a lot of people turned up on the gang ship because when they did it, they heightened it on a mainstream level, and a lot of kids is looking at it like he ain't like that, and I don't really like that, So I'm really going to do it, you know what I'm saying.

And now they they catching indictments and all of that, So what does it bring for real, Like you know what I mean, That shit don't bring nothing but pain facts. That's crazy. Yeah. I always thought that, like because because because just kind of who you are and and and and you know, even just watching the show on a regular basis, like you can kind of tell like the morals you stand on. Yeah. I just I just thought that there was some some academic ship and again it

was it was got a number of respect for academics. Yeah, outside of the Freddie Gibs shit happened and him him bringing up Fred's kids and not so well when we get friends my brother, but I respect like the career he's built up. But I just figured that there was a had to be a few things where you was like, bro, like what is it? Well, no, it's well hmmm, let me think it's different. I can't think of everything, Bro, we did? You know? You and I did probably three

hundred something. I was on Everyday Struggle longer than Joe Bud was and that's facts. So so I did three hundred something episodes of that shit. So I can't remember everything. Bro. I'm talking Monday through Thursday, every morning at seven in the morning. A lot of that shit is a blur and and some shit you can see and some shit you want. But the thing about me is is like it's a lot of shit that we didn't agree on, Bro, But but at the same time, it's like we knew

that we came there to do a job. We came there to entertain. I felt like, you know, for me, I was on that show for three years. You know what I'm saying for me to I'm grateful to Complex. I'm working for the Deska because the desker's who got me on that show and a co signed it, and that's what spit ahead of my media career. And I've and like you, it worked. It ain't like they brought you on like and well. The thing is, Bro, is that I'm a sponge. Like if you could hear you

hear me talk about my Rockefeller days. I got in the room, I learned, I sat around, I played my part, I sat in the corner, I was the person. Yeah, So I looked at it from the perspective of this, it's like I got in there for all the shit, even with the bullshit that me It's a lot of conversations that I had with act with act told me how to handle business in the media. Space. So when I did my deals, He's like, YO, make sure it's make sure you he told me, Bro, he instilled summing

for me. I'm grateful for me that, you know what I'm saying. And him and me, you know, it's like it's like almost like the same shit you're saying what you was like, like, meet Bro, I've know Meek since he was sixteen, and I fuck woul Act, but Meet I got real genuine love for me because I knew him when he caught this, when he caught the troup before you. I'm kind of glad the clubhouse thing happened because it kind of I hate clubhouse. Bro. I haven't

had clubhouse on my phone for a while. I haven't. I haven't used it in like five months. That's a wrap. Yeah, it's over for me for that, but but like it's just I love balance. I feel like, you can't we can't have all the things. I can't have the morals that I stand on and this, that and the third and teach and educate if I don't have examples of other people and not specifically Act, but other people that

be out here shocking the fucking food. You know what I'm saying, so I could be able to show examples like yo, listen, I ain't gonna tell you what to do, but if you want to do it, just make sure you do it your way. Don't feel a pressure, feeling like you got to be this person in that What was the Was there ever a crazy moment where you guys had interviews at complex and things kind of got weird, weird with the artists with artists and act YG YG came in because that was right after like like six

nine was going crazy and I remember that. And the thing is is like I I gotta rapport with them, with YG and them, you know what I mean, Like I funk would be more, you know what I mean. Yeah, he's my guy. Push push your rod, like I funck with a lot of his dudes, you know what I'm saying. And like when I when I every every room, I walk into him being myself saying. So when I come in there, I speak to everybody. I ain't just speak to YG. I came in there, I said, but up

to his homies before I saw him something. It's early in the morning. That brother's doing y'all good. Flight was cool, all right, cool? They came in so ACT came in, you know what I mean. Usually the artists that like don't funk with act, they usually sit next to me. It's they usually sit next to me. So why G? You know he said with me? You know what I mean? It was cool, but like why was waiting to see if he was going to play with him? You know

what I mean? But ultimately, like, why G? He's a real good guy, bro, Like I went to one of his his brother, his brother's birthday party one time, met as his mom, his pops and up. People be looking at these artists and they just think that they these reckless dudes because he chose a certain way of life. He's a good brother, feel me. Like, so I wanted to ask you because you've worked with you worked with Dave early on, and Dave's one of my favorite artists.

In saying MC, women love him right right killing it on the acting. He's kind of like the full package. But for some reason, he's never kind of gone over the hump at being like a commercial success. Why do you think that is, like in your opinion for being someone wh's been so close to him. I mean, this is a record business. You gotta make records, you know what I mean, I feel like like Dave has he has all the qualities to make him be over that.

But like I just feel like because I still, you know, I tune into this shiit like me and Dave don't first and all, like me and Dave don't have a bad report, right, I mean, like it was a point in time where we weren't speaking. But regardless of that, Dave had reached out to me when I lost my father because him and my father had their own relationship and he was he was very sincere his approach, and I took Dave to become Muslim. He's gonna be my

brother forever. He's my brother here in and in after life. So I loved it. But I always felt like Dave I always for me. My vision for him was to always be bigger. I don't know what the vision that he had for himself once I stopped working with him, you know what I'm saying. So I don't know what transpired after that. We went on separate ways. But like I just felt like Dave has an insane ability. He's he's a dope rapper. That's why I was fucking with him,

you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean looking like I just I feel like he checks all the boxes, checks all the boxes. But I mean, you gotta remember, bro, everybody's not like everybody's not meant to be what we want them to be. And you see that in sports before you see the music, you know what I mean, Like all the time, Bro, you know how many number one picks I was living and dying, buying and then

like they end up not being mohammed. But you know they reclassified him because he was older, he was lying by his age and all that shit. Yeah, but like but but yeah, even him, like when he's at UCLA, Andrew Wiggins, Andrew Andrew Wiggan Yo, I swech I wanted the Sons to tank for Wiggins. Bro Dante ExHAM hex

him from He's from Australia. He's from Australia. But let me tell you something, bro, it wasn't a person I want a hundred dollar bet off of off of Andrew Wiggins when he came to the league because I was betting one of the East homies. He said that he went average fourteen points. I was like, I said, he's gonna get his fourteen points off of fast? I said's gonna get eight points off of Fast Break the Kids a freak athlete, Like, you can't fuck that package up.

But I feel like he still has the ability. Some people unlock it later on lebron Shoe was instant. Mellows instant, Zach Lavine's unlocked it. Later on, Yeah, Zach Lavine unlocked it later on you know what I'm saying, like like Donovan Mitchell, like, are you are you a Nick fan? No, I'm a Lakers fan. No really, that's interesting, that's convenient. No, no, no no it's not. I mean, second greatest franchise of

all time. But I sucked through the tough time. See anybody was like I was watching when it was void and Eddie Jones, Nick van X absolutely bro listen. I used to tape the memories kids. But I used to take the NBA draft. We couldn't go on Instagram and just re see it. Used to take that ship. I used to remember when when NBA Live and have the rookies ris to write down every single rookie and look at all their attributes and create them on live and ship. Bro.

I was a fun I'm a basketball fan. I love My love for the for the Lakers came not just from they didn't come from the convenience of Shaq and Kobe. It came from Phil Jackson. That's why I name my company Triangle Offense, because I started that. You were kind of a later Laker fan, man, I was, but I was, I said, was a kid before you were a Laker fan. Were you a Nick fan? No? I was a Bulls fan. Yeah, I was. I mean, but I was. I'm a Suns fan.

I'm from Phoenix. But why use a Oh that's tough. No, no, because as a kid, it was just Michael Jeordan's Michael Jordan. But that's why I be telling people. So it's like when you meet a kid that's eight years old, you'd be like, who's your favorite team? It's the Golden State Wars when they was seventy three and nine, because they the best. It's marketing, it's the best thing. But like, I'm a Laker fan. Laker fan, do you think like, like, you know, I'm so much of a Lagka fan. I

was against Lebron coming to the Lagas at first. You're one of those Kobe guys. Man, you have your side of the of the war and it's Kobe. I had a lot of Lebron Kobe arguments. Bro, Well you've had that Lebron argue. I had almost fist fight arguments about Lebron Kobe Bro. So it's like when you had Kobe's better than Lebron. Huh, you're saying Kobe's better than Lebron. I don't think he's a better athlete. I'm talking about that, just better all time, all time. Great conversation. You're putting

Kobe over Lebron all time? Okay, all right, do you see at least you're reasonable. You're reasonable. I'm not because Lebron bro. Like Steve Kurt said the relationship about Lebron one time, he's like, yo, you know how hard it is to get to the finals? He like even if he's lost, Like like, even if he's lost, you know how hard it is to get It's people that seeing the finals on the bench one time and didn't have

a career after that. I always tell people, like the year he went, it was at five and then they had him was seven when Eric Snow was the point going. But that's the second worst team to a AIS team as team was rough by the way, both both teams had Eric and Aaron McK I think probably yeah, and Aaron, but like so, and he went through the Pistons in the Eastern Conference finals. They wasn't they were still the Pistons, though, come on, we're not gonna do to Michael Jordan. And

it was the Pistons he went to. Know it was the Pistons that beat the Lakers, who had Karl Malone and Gary Payton. It was I know, but as a rookie was as a lot of factors why that championship the way that today? The thing I will say about Lebron is Lebron has the greatest championship. I agree twenty sixteen that was the greatest. And I could have went to that ship, bro, Really, I could have went to a game. We was on tour. Fred, you remember that we was on tour. I've known Rich Paul since like

two thousand and two, two thousand and three. I've known, right, I've never met Lebron in my life though, that's the crazy thing. But I've known Respaul for maya. So some little girl. We end up we on we I'm managing Dave we on tour and we're in we in Cleveland and we got a show in Columbus the next day. And this little girl. She keeps looking or whatever, and then Rich Paul walks in. I'm like, oh shit, Rich was good. Nobody knew what Rich looked like at that time,

like that unless you really really right. So I chop it up a Rich you know. He's like, Yo, that's my daughter. He's like, yo, could she take a picture with Dave. I'm like, yeah, they take a picture. So he like, Yo, what y'all doing tonight? I'm like, yeah, we about to go to Columbus. We got a show. He like, man, come to the game. I think I think they might have been down one. I think it was. I think they was down though. Was they down? Was it three? It wasn't three to one? I can't I

can't remember what the series was at. But they was at home. And he's like, yo, come to the game to night. I'm like, nah, because the show that we had he was getting some bread. I'm not missing that the show. I needed that show. So he's like, all right, but that we could have went to that fucking we could have went to that that ship, bro. But also it's like, we had like how many peoples with us, like fifteen people. I don't think anyone's ever faced harder

competition in the finals than Lebron. Yes and no, so well, yes and no, because you know what people people always like, Oh, Michael jord play against Jeff Wrna Sack, you know what I mean. It's like, but John Stocked the one of the toughest white boys in touch a basket. I just but I just think of like Lebron had to go against the first era of the peak Spurs in seven, right, then he had to go against Kawhi Spurs. This is what the heat. Then then against the Warriors. They wasn't

Kawhi Spurs when they won. Yeah, but Kawhi was that motherfucker it was, But they wasn't. They wasn't like we nobody even thought that Kawhi. So he played the Spurs three times in the finals, he played the thunder that had three future MVPs. OKC is the worst basketball organization of all time. The fact they never got a ring is crazy. Not even that, bro not even that. The fact that they paid Sergey Bakab but instead of James James for two million dollars, James Harden went sixty sixty

five and they offered him sixty three. And they said that they didn't want a decision in Oklahoma City and they let him go. But think about it. So he played that team, which in retrospect is one of the most talented rosters ever. Now they had Reggie Jackson on that It was mad people in that team, the Warriors four straight years three No, it was four, right, it was four. It was four. Yeah, so four lost and then they won and then they lost again twice. Mind you.

The first year that he lost, Kyrie and Love weren't playing. He had Matthew him the m v P. Anyway, and Andrea Goodala you got the m v P because Steph was kind of whatever. And look, step that's the one think about Steph too, Yo, Steph doesn't have never I just had this argument with this motherfucker. Only does he not but listen, but I love Steph Curry. That only does he never got a finals MVP. Only does he

have done? I have a finals MVP. He doesn't. He has a lot of clutch shots in the season, he don't have those in the finals. Just was yelling at this motherfucker about them. He's not the goat. He's not. He's changed the worst. He's the most influent. I think Steph Curry, And I'm not talking about culture. He's the greatest. I don't know if anyone's ever influenced the way basketball's played like he has. Yes, who Michael Jordan, Bro, But

but think about the last eight years. No, the whole game has changed with the way people should get analyst, you play me in the way people played play ball when he was a kid. Yeah, Bro, do you remember the trouble you would get in if you shot a fucking three? You would get your coach on your head. Yo, not even on a fast break, because nobody shot threes on fast breaks. But I'm talking about I remember when General as a bad shot and I shot a three from the corner. I did, and it was in the

first quarter. I didn't play again the whole game now, and I almost made it. I almost made the ship. He's just created a whole He's changed basketball. He has, I think more than anyone as far as just how it's lell how it's played. Yes, I'm gonna tell you how because because of Lebron James and Lebron's Lebron's my personal favorite player ever. Because of Lebron James being the height, he's the size of Carmelone. He's a monster. He's the size of car malone, and he runs as fast as

Allen Iverson. It's crazy. So that's what I'm saying. So after I feel like after Lebron is when AAU, because you know, the ship is a ground up business. Where AAU started looking at kids because when we were kids, if he was the tallest kid or you was tall, is standing in and do this jump up and down catch re bounds. You can't even take a shot for real, right facts Now the big man has to know how to dribble down, the big man has to know how to pass. They train the kids to know everything. And

I think that that's because Lebron. That's fair, that's fair. That's because Lebron. I always say, if I ask somebody who's the greatest of all time and their answer isn't either Michael Jordan or Lebron James, then they don't know what the fuck they're talking about, right, because who else is a Kareem maybe? And I don't give a fuck what people think about the feelings of this situation. Kevin Durant might go down as the greatest scorer. I think

him or James Harden James Harden too, but Kevin. The thing about Kevin Durant is I think the only edge he has on on James is his height because at his height, he's another one that changed the game too, where Au started looking at kids like, oh now, we gotta start telling these kids. You know what I mean, it's crazy to think that we're like alive to watch both of them play at the same time. Hard like probably the two they're gonna probably go down to two

to scorn. But that's why Braun is like people, well, Kobe, That's why I always quate Wayne to Kobe because Wayne, I mean, Broun has played in so Broun Drake Yeah, okay, absolutely, j Jordan, yeah yeah, but Bron Wayne is definitely Kobe because Wayne Wayne got a song that's enough. Nobody can do a verses against Wayne. Bro, It's impossible. You can't know. Don't tell me, no, Bro. I was at the Drake versus Wayne to it and I was like, Damn, Drake

got wayboard just joints. But Bro, I don't know who selected his records, but Bro, but Wayne has a record, and think about basketball, No, he's got a record in every real quick real quick think about basketball. Think about Wayne's music in every basketball era. No, you're right, hit record He's had. He's had records in every era, in every era. I do not disagree every era. Bro I don't like Drake is gonna be the evol version of Wayne I mean as an artist, is what I mean?

Who do you think fully healthy? You think the Lakers are are taking it this year? If they're fully al absolutely kd my Man, but dragging that book and ship and it ain't got J James And there's no defense. There's no defense in the NBA period, No but but but except for on the Lakers because they're fucking top five defensive team without a D and Lebron since since they've been out. Yo, Frank Vogel, low key, listen, Frank Fogel, I was like, but but but nah, he was firing Indiana.

But but That's what I was about to say. If. I hate the word if, but because there was a point in time where poor George bro I love Poor George is my fair play? Not no more Lucat Luca the down lucas me and you are fucking I always tell everybody Luca might go down as the greatest of all time. Lucas definitely gonna be the greatest white man to play basketball ever, Like it's year three. But but but he gotta win some though he always got he will. But but but that Pacers team, Bro, they had to

go up against Miami, they gave him hell. Bro, I get upset when I'm playing too K online and somebody picks Miami and I got I get it up set, bro, because I hate that. But that Indiana team was that top to bottom. That's when Danny Granger wasn't sweet. Granger was nice. This was Roy Roy Hibbert was decent before the big Man was extinct. And and and then remember when Roy Hibbert found his groove for Lance Stevenson was

a nice all around hill. Georgia was given the people help, No, no, the Pacers I remember, I remember I was like legit scared for Lebron one of those years. I think when they met in the Eastern Conference finals, I was like that ship went with David West. David they fight everybody. I would like to see David West and uh celebrity and and and uh what's the ol g on the fucking heat it's been on? There hasling. That would be a fight that would be a real like I paid

money to see HASLM versus. Yeah, because that David West is like a black belter, So I already got like serious might be saying it, but I ain't see no action. That's fair man. Well look, man, I appreciate you coming through. Your podcast is every Thursday, Every Thursday, hear Me Out with Wayne. It's on all platforms. Please make sure that you rate and review. That's important. Rates and reviews are very very important. Even more hit the like on the YouTube,

the likes. Share it. All I really care about is if you see it and you like it, you should like some resonates. Share it, you know what I mean? Please just share it. My ship is rooted in the people because I am one of them. There it is, I man. We'll go go go support and Triangle offense dot com. No, no, no, no no, get your it's not out yet. It's not when it's coming, when it comes with me and you do a little fifteen minutes, you

know what I mean. We talked some basketball again. It is because I feel like we could do a whole hour with basketball, for sure, But we do that and we do some Triangle offenship. But the merchants coming. Everybody who just if you fuck with Wayne. No, thank you, keV. I really appreciate it. We're trying to make this happen. Thank perfect