#508 - Andrew Callaghan

Yo, what's up, guys.

This is Andrew Callahan from Channel five News. Check me out on the Bootleg keV podcast.

Bootleg cav Podcast. Man, we got a special guest in here. This guy just dropped a new movie, an amazing documentary. He's got one of my favorite YouTube channels. He's one of my favorite journalists in the world. My guy Andrew from Channel five has officially touchdown.

Man, thank you for having me on bro. I really appreciate it. I'm a big fans the coolest seeing you grow your platform in the past couple of years. So shout out to Bootleg keV. Shot out to Phoenix too.

Yes, sir, it's crazy because I think I want to say I first kind of found you. It was probably like twenty nineteen. It was when you were you interviewed the Joker Guy in Florida.

Yeah, it made my first videos, like in the winter of twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen was like the beginning of all gas no breaks. I think my first Joker Gang interview was in the September of twenty nineteen and.

Golden in Florida.

Yeah, because I used to live in Tampa, right, So I actually lived in Saint Pete. So I remember seeing that guy go viral when I was living there, and like it was funny to kind of like see the Florida man. Yeah, we'll talk, no crazy.

So I went to Miami to find him, Like, I went to Miami first, and I was like, yo, I happened to be in Miami because I didn't want to freak him out and be like I'm coming to find it, right, So I went to Miami. I was like, Yo, what up, Joker three zero five ross Chico alive, I'm in this bitch And he was like, bro, I'm in Saint Pete.

And I was like, what, How'd that happen? So I drove through the Everglades in like the middle of the night. For sure.

People don't know that's a wild.

Drive alligator alley.

Yes.

So I get to say, Pete, I go to the south side of town. I'm like, yo, I'm actually here too, you know, it just happened to be here, And he was like for real, met him at the liquor store, busted the interview at.

The South side of Saint Pete's serious yeah, serious area for sure. Yeah no, So I mean, obviously you've been leveling up for a long time. Man. I want to talk about the movie real quick, because it was an emotional watch. It was kind of crazy because we like, you know, I think you did such a good job, and you do such a good job of like whatever side of politics you might be on, like humanizing everybody. Yeah, you know, whether it's protesters, whether it's people who are

Yeah, he blames it on a lender named Bill Joyner.

Yeah, and uh Bill and his whole entire like life just spirals into this like weird like like Maga sphere. Yeah, like the craziest of the crazy, like hanging out outside of abortion clinics. That's how the movie's going hard, you know, and then you know it kind of fo you end

I mean, I think it's just like there was over three hundred and fifty hours of footage. So the first time that I met him was at the White Lives Matter rally in Huntington Beach in twenty twenty one, and the last shoot was with Uncle Pill at a skate park in Oceanside, California, three and a half weeks ago. Right, So we had a cumulative like three hundred and fifty hours of total footage, and I just looked at it all in total, and I was like, bro, we gotta do something with this.

And so when when Kelly was at that like that that was the America Festival that just happened in Phoenix.

It happens every like Christmas in Phoenix.

But that was the one that just happened. No, no, no, no, that was.

Filmed at the America Fest one year before.

Okay, okay, yeah was it? Because I wasn't sure how soon how close it was, because I was like, I thought that thing just happened.

No, no, no, it was twenty twenty three, I think.

Yeah, So that all those years, you end up wrapping it up three three and a half weeks ago, and you know, I know you had kind of articulated like you wanted to kind of dive into the why. Yeah, because we have seen so many people who we deem to be like normal, be radicalized on both sides of the aisle, definitely, and there's a why, yeah, you know, and for you, like, what were some of the correlations that you kind of realized were consistent.

With well, like I noticed that even back in the day, like the first I guess conspiracy adjacent rallies I go to, like the flat Earth conference in Dallas, Like I would post somebody like a flat Earth are talking about, you know, Hitler having a secret city in an Antarctica and hiding the flat Earth truth that type of thing, and the comments will be like, Yo, this was my science teacher he got fired for like you know, flashing students or.

Some shit like that.

Yeah, or like this is my cousin, Like he got laid off after he got hurt at work and he's never been the same. And so I noticed this like com in thread of people having a full blown collapse of their core needs like security, significant unection, all collapsing, and then they developed this like super negative worldview that's very binary as far as like I'm good, I'm a good person, and there's this like nebulous evil force that's out there, like this dark cloud that's above every hard working,

Yeah, it's pretty crazy too, because it really makes sense if you because it gives you you know, it's so easy to not have accountability. Yeah, And I think what was dope about the movie is by you know, by the end of the movie, it seems like this guy ended up taking some accountability.

A little bit, Yeah, a little bit at a little bit without spoiling the whole shit. Like a lot of people watch the movie and they see the ending and they're disappointed. But I'm like, dude, if you look at the very beginning to the end of the movie, that's a different guy for sure. He's probably not doing like the TLC intervention ninety days later thing where they're like, oh my god, I'm healed, but he's significantly less angry.

And like the other thing too, is like, you know, if there is like a thread of like validity to an issue, and not even necessarily a threat because I think with the immigration issue, obviously the border was out of control. Yeah, you know, this is a question, This is a fact. But it also gives a lot of people who are in situations in their lives to point the finger at somebody like I have the villain in my story as to why I might not be doing better.

And what's crazy about it is like when you look at these conservative events, especially like in the magosphere, you can have like a bitcoin libertarian who drinks ayahuasca and smokes weed five times a day sitting next to somebody who is a non psycho or a pro life evangelical Christian who like actually believes that marijuana was created by the devil to make white women have interracial children.

Yeah, it's the then diagram with people that go is insane.

And they're like, all we both fuck with Trump, it's all good, Whereas on the other side, the liberal side, you can't even have a group of five without them tearing each other down for dumb shit.

Yeah, and like, you know, I'm an old school liberal, like I voted for Bernie. I'm I'm you know, I guess I would be. As you know, I'm pretty aligned with Bernie Sanders on mostly everything.

I same here.

I think he got fucked over. I mean I don't think I know, and.

We're paying for that now.

It's crazy. But but like you said, you know, it's it's frustrating because I think over the last I would say some COVID right, like you're really not allowed to step out of line as a liberal on any issue whatsoever. Like I'm super pro trans rights, super pro trans rights. I think it's fucked up that Trump just spanned them

I don't know, that'd be the best league.

I'll be like, it's like if you just step out a little bit, it's like you get fucking thrown. Like I mean, dude, I remember during the pandemic. I mean I was spooked, man. I was masked up the whole time. Uh for like the first four or five months. Okay, maybe even the first three months, but I was wearing

Bro? Oh shit?

And I was like what, of course not, what are we talking about? And it was like this thing where like you couldn't even like question what was going on with like some of the like alternative like treatments that were available for COVID or even just like the lab leak theory, and it just I feel like COVID, like we were already super divided from like twenty sixteen oneh Q none was cracking, like all this crazy shit was happening.

Yeah.

I feel like also the social policing that COVID created, especially in more liberal spaces, made it so conservatives became the new counterculture. Like I remember before George Floyd popped off in May, there was those two months where the only thing that I was covering was freedom rallies. So like I remember watching you go to Sturgis. Yeah, Sturgis was sick. I went to a Sacramento capital they had. This is before the vaccine, so it was just called

And it's funny because when you I mean, obviously I don't hold you are, but it's like I feel like, prior to COVID, like liberals were supposed to be like yeah, anti.

Government, yeah, and now they're an anti war and they were supporting the censorship of like everybody on social media.

And now you see what that did. It just pushed everybody into tighter echo chambers. And now looks at Trump's in office, and.

Then it pushed everybody because, like you said, if the counterculture to something that makes no sense is just the right. Yeah. And because I've noticed so many people who I know who supported Bernie Sanders, I mean people who donate money to Bernie Sanders vote for Trump. Yeah, Like there's like this weird like who would have thought like that would ever be a thing. But it's like, well if the other if the option is you know, people kind of pick their poison. Yeah, have you noticed that?

Like definitely, I mean, especially if you think about it now. It's crazy to me that Trump ran on this platform of like eliminating the deep state bureaucracy, so like the DNC and CNN and the media, but now he has like a private army of tech oligarchs as his advisor.

So it's so crazy.

But going back to a point that I wanted to make too, A lot of people watch Dear Kelly and they say, Yo, why don't you make a movie.

About the liberal equivalent of Kelly? And I just want to say that does exist.

But I don't think that, like radical hardcore liberalism is created by need collapse. I think it's actually created by an oversaturation of court needs. Like people who have everything that they need and they're doing so well, they feel bad, especially if they participate in gentrification and they're pushing people out of neighborhoods like Brooklyn.

Like I go back, white guilt is.

It's just it's just paralyzing for them.

And so I think most like extreme libs that I've seen, they come from more conservative families. They come from the suburbs, they moved to this city. I grew up in this city, so I didn't grow up around any like hard core liberals.

But there's a correlation.

The most gentrified neighborhoods in America is where you see the most hardcore liberals.

Yeah, that's true. It's funny too, because you know, I do a radio show. My co host is James Jefferson, who's a big TikTok personality, black guy. But he always says he's like yo man. Like most of the time there's like a someone like super pissed off or like triggered by something in the news that isn't that big of a deal. It's always like a white one.

Always, it's always a white lady.

During during COVID, during the protest movement, I came into group. I came into contact with a group in Portland, Oregon called the White Body Shields. And what they would do is they would go and all in bulletproof armor to black neighborhoods and they would approach older black women usually and say, hey, do you need me to walk you to the bus stop? Do you need me to walk

You know. It's funny too because I saw this video and obviously it was on Twitter, but it was a it was like, uh, you know, there's this this this overall discussion about like voter ID, and it seems like most of the people who are against voter ID are like liberal white people and they go through the hood and they ask people like, hey, do you got an ID? And they're like yeah, what the fuck? Like they're like

Oh yeah, they don't even know what computers are.

It's like, lady, these kids could there they have an iPhone. Yeah, they're better at computers than we're seventeen. Yeah, like they know how to fucking make They know cap cut better than all of us.

The kids of today are crazy. Bro.

I had a cousin, My little cousin. He wakes up on Christmas morning before opening his own presence to watch his favorite streamer unbox their gifts, and he's more stoked about like what they're gonna get He's like in the chat being like L gift, W gift.

So by the time his parents.

Are like Santa came, He's like, I don't give a I got fuck your socks, mom.

Yeah, that sh it's funny.

So the point is the kids from the Bronx to the Hamptons, they know about the phone and the computer.

They know computers. Yeah. No, it's interesting too, man, because I think with the movie, like, you know, for me, it was just like showing like how his daughter because he has a lesbian daughter, right, Kelly has a lesbian daughter, and just showing how like, by the way, his kid's badass.

His son is outside, Kyle's outside, Yeah, he's fucking fucking you're talking about his party? Yeah, Like it was a tight party.

But it was just dope to kind of see the perspective of like how how you know kids are affected and the fact like his he showed up to a protest with his dad, I thought was like the nicest thing. Yeah, you know, like, hey dude, this is what he's into. So I'm just gonna show up like I'm I don't know, you know, like, yeah.

That scene definitely was emotionally impactful for me because I'm like, Wow, the links that he'll go to connect with his pops. I think a lot of people can relate to that for sure.

For sure, man Bill Joyner is suing you. Yeah, for people like he's the boogeyman of this film allegedly, allegedly, allegedly he's the And I'm like, to be fair, you did not paint him as the boogeyman.

That's what I think. And I try and tell him that, I try to tell him.

You you kind of showed the world that hey, this guy's this guy didn't really any doing wrong.

Yeah. Well, the lawsuit was filed before the film even came out.

You're kind of hoping he's seen the movie maybe eases up a little.

Well.

I think that him and his lawyer, from what I can see by the court filings, they think that we are like, you know, big, that we're on Kelly's exact team, and then we're corroborating his narrative about the home foreclosure, right but in reality, which is not the case.

No.

So the actual lawsuit says violation of the Federal Wiretap Act, like he thought we were tapping his phone lines. It says stalking, emotional distress, like we weren't stalking him or anything, right, or I mean emotional distress.

I don't know, I don't think.

So yeah, no, no, no. So are you worried about the lawsuit at all?

Of course?

Yeah, but I.

Mean thankfully, like we filed an anti slap motion. It's like something basically where if someone sues you for defamation or whatever, you can do a slap An anti slap motion, which is like slapp basically means like it's within my rights as a documentary filmmaker to share someone's perspective even if you disagree with it.

And you knew that this lawsuit was already kind of in motion and still decided to release the movie.

Yeah, because the judge dismissed what's called oral argument. So that's like when they expect both attorneys to show up and make their case and is deliberating for like one hundred and eighty day period or something, right, So what that tells me is that the judge has kind of made up her mind to the point that she didn't even want to hear from my.

Lawyer or Bill's lawyer. It makes sense, So.

I won't know if she's team Bill or Team Channel five for like at least ninety day.

Damn, dude, that's crazy. Yeah, well, good luck. Thanks.

I mean it's gonna be fine.

Like I think, I think too, like I think this movie like because I know you had opened the movie kind of explaineding like hey, you know, because I thought the HBO documentary was amazing, thank you, But it was crazy to see like like even like then, like you had to kind of like you know, you're playing by the rules a bit when you're doing something with a big partner like that, and so this was like straight to straight to the.

Yeah, I mean I finished the movie, Dear Kelly, one day before it came out, Like I did a final color and sound pass and put the right songs on like literally the day before it came out.

So crazy.

In comparison, the HBO film was picture locked, so finished without color and audio nine months before the release date.

Damn, do you feel like this is kind of the new way? Because I mean you're doing well, right. It sold a lot, you know, I saw some I think, you know, it broke some records.

I think we got one hundred thousand in sales in the first weekend.

Which is amazing.

Which is like a record since Connie twenty twelve for a direct to streamer direct to consumer streaming video.

Do you feel like that because because at the end of the day, you put so much work into like some of some of these videos you do, which is why I think it's important to support the Patreon. Yeah, thanks, because you put a ton of work. Bro, Like this is like real journalism, Like we like people will see shit on the news, you're actually like going to wherever it's happening and yeah and finding out what is going on.

In the field. And we really have no bosses.

A lot of people they masquerade is being independent, you know what I mean because you see him on the street with the you know, but they did I'm with Vice I journey right, but you know what I mean, Like we're actually like not beholden to anybody, which is why they don't like us.

Think, by the way, thank you for not like doing like cringey weird shit like Vice used to do, Like I did Heroin for thirty days straight. This is what happened.

You know what's crazy though, bro, is that Vice.

When I was a youngster, I'm twenty, well back in the day, it was amazing so sick. So I always say when people talk shit about Vice, I'm like, yes, WECE makes some pretty ass shit nowadays.

However, it used to be the ship back when they would go to the Congo.

Dude General Button, remember that, or even the David Show series Thumbs Up America. Like, without that series, I probably wouldn't hitchhiked across the US, I probably wouldn't have made a videos.

I probably wouldn't have been here.

That shit's crazy.

They made journalism cool again before Advice, I don't think there was anybody actually pushing the envelope except for like Louis Thorreau in the UK with BBC. But like, journalism wasn't like badass until Vice. Do you care about like being accepted? Like, you know, there's so many people who a quote unquote journalists that are mainstream. Do you care about their acceptance or like being seen as like a peer of them?

No, No, I don't like journalists like that. Yeah, I just don't think I don't want to be accepted by journalism or you know, they already don't fuck with me, right, they never fucked with me, right, They're never going to. So even if I wanted to say.

Yeah, I would love to, you know, have a bunch of friends at the Associated Press and sit down with some MSNBC fund It's like, you.

Think they would fuck with me. No, but that's because we're outsiders.

Trump's press secretary this morning, we just saw it before you walked in, actually said that the White House press credentials are o been to anyone who has a YouTube channel, TikTok account, a Twitter account that has a following and it does news based content.

Wow, I should apply.

No, they just posted the website today.

Oh shit, Yeah, we should apply.

So I think you should apply because I think you could ask some questions in there.

Yeah, it's actually good questions. And I also feel like, at the same time, though, that could be bad if they reject people based upon like the pressure, if they packed the room with just right wing influencers, right, if it's just like fucking Charlie Kirk and you know, yeah, whoever, they're just glazers, just glazers.

Jesus. It is crazy too, though, because it's almost like the extreme left getting soaked wild has kind of like commercialized so many of these guys on the right. Yeah, to the point where it's like, you know, if you think about like Charlie Kirk or or you know, like my kids, Like my son's a mixed kid. He's fucking eleven years old and he's seen the kids that dos tiktoks.

Oh totally.

And I feel the same way about like I don't think there was probably now again there's the Bernie card, but they would never play that Bernie card because it isn't you know, but or like someone in that same vein that speaks to working class Americans Like honestly, but I feel like this Trump thing, it was just like a very predictable, like you could feel the pendulum swinging yeah, like in real I was like, yo, like I just don't see.

Yeah.

I think it's because so many young dudes like shifted right because of these like progressive new standards, especially on college campuses, with like this hardcore identity politics banging where like that's more important than class, like those issues, like it doesn't matter what your idea is if as long as you are like a certain position on the privilege hierarchy, you shouldn't be.

Able to say anything. And I get the point.

What they're trying to do is like give people who are marginalized like a chance to speak. But what that does to somebody who might feel like a young white dude with a good idea is he's like, you know what, I'm well intentioned, and I'm being basically exiled for speaking my mind because of how I look. I'm going to go to Turning Point, USA, where they're gonna give me

Yeah, I've noticed that. It's like a lot of like young dudes, man are just like, you know, they they fucking they and Trump went to all their platforms.

Yeah, definitely, you know.

And like to me, like if Kamala would have just like that. The one thing about Kamala that I just could not I just could not wrap my head around is whoever was running her campaign they just refused to put her in uncomfortable situations where she had to talk off the script. Yeah, and it would be like, man, if I could have just seen like this was a human being for like an hour, like a human. Hey.

The one thing that she did that did have some good impact is you know the front Horachi's and Phoenix. Yeah, so Mahomie Renee is the chef there. She went three days before election day to Phoenix and had like a Sonora and Sarne. I remember some type of food like that.

Yeah. I just I just like I was just waiting for her to, like, you know, when she did like club Shaysha, I was like, oh, like even if she would have did like you know, even the breakfast club thing, like I wish you would did it a one on one with Charlemagne and not like a you know.

Yeah, I don't know why they didn't do that. They're just so tapped out.

But I'm like, I'm saying it's karmaic retribution for them, kind of like kicking Bernie Sanders out the picture, because Bernie would have talked to the youth. Bernie would have gone on every he actually did. He went on Theovon, he went on like Joe Rogan back in the day, all these platforms where Trump was able to speak directly to the youth and stuff, or not even just the youth, but just like ages, you know, eighteen to forty.

And the other thing too, is like I think if you're a Democrat and you're watching the last week of Trump in office, however you feel about whatever he's doing, it like shows you how ineffective our politicians are so bad, dude, Like, yo, if this guy can come in and make a fucking spectacle out of signing these executive orders, whether or not they stick or not, like you know, the birthright ship, like that's a Supreme Court issue. Yeah, but it's like

Yeah, for sure.

It's like it's like everything is so hard with a Democrat. But it's like this motherfucker's up here turning ship up and bro.

Honestly, like, if you think about it, I see why people view Trump as like an underdog counterculture icon. For sure, deployed every single thing they could in the media to take him down for years, and the law and the and the law system, dude, the law system. Every late night TV show became like a Trump mockery platform. Jimmy Cammel, Stephen Colbert, they literally threw their entire integrity out the window and became DNC mouthpieces.

I can't even for fucking years, I can't even watch it, dude. I I fully because I grew up a Democrat. My parents are Democrat, my grandma's Democrat, and fucking I am a fucking When I registered in California because I moved from Azy to Cali, Yeah, registered as an independent. I don't want no side by both sides.

Bro, Like the crazy gas lighting is like if you don't vote for Kammell or you're voting for Trump, It's like, oh whatever, Bro.

This is what I told everybody because I was an RFK guy during because I liked a lot of his ideas about UH food and censorship, and you know, I hated his stance with the Israel stance, but I was like, yo, when I'm talking, while I was talking to my friends, I'm like, you know, they're like no, but it's a it's a wasted vote, And I'm like, dude, this is the brainwashing over hundreds of years that has been programmed

You owe your vote definitely, Like vote with your conscious.

That's like to me, like I knew, Like like I'm like, yo, like if you feel any type of way about Palestine, like vote for Jill Stein and know you voted with your heart and your conscious and neither side deserved your vote.

Dude.

Honestly, if Kamala Harris would have said, like I'm pro Palestine or at least I supported two state solutions, she would have won the election.

Fucking rolled Bill Clinton out in Michigan to chastise fucking Muslim Americans to their fucking face. Yeah, it was the.

Craziest shit, and a campaigned with Liz Cheney I'm like, it's exactly.

Can you imagine being on the.

Fence and being like, oh shit, well Dick Cheney's wife fucks with Kamala Harris.

And to me, that's where they just lost me due the last couple of years. And I'm just like, so we're like, legit the War Party now. Yeah.

But honestly, dude, if you think about it, this in the long run, twenty twenty eight is going to be a great year because we're gonna have fresh primaries on both sides. The Democratic Party is totally done.

They're never going to rematerialize.

You're gonna have new progression maybe new Conservative candidate, right, oh, they're done.

I don't know. I don't. I think that they're so ignorant on the left. I mean, I don't know.

At least we're going to get new people.

I hope.

So we are gonna get new people.

I hope that they find whoever that is.

We're gonna get new Conservatives and new progressives, Like twenty twenty eight is going to be that year.

I think it's gonna up being Jade Vance and Vivic.

I think that'll be the Yeah, we need new dynasties like Bro Biden was Obama's vice president. Does nobody think that's fucking weird? That's insane? Hillary Clinton is Bill Clinton's wife.

It's just Donald Trump.

It was on the Apprentice, like all these fools are already entrench, Like when can we get a Bernie Sanders Vermont will rise again?

Oh? Man, Yeah, no, I don't even know who the new Bernie is. Honestly, that has like actual power, you know, Like I mean, I guess AOC, but she kind of sold out a lot of her you know, a lot of her free will. For I would say AOC was the most disappointing the last couple of years because she kind of like chowse up with a couple of times and I was like, who, anyway, you have done so many crazy like you've literally been in the shits whatever.

That's the thing, bro, I don't think so it's weird, Like I get scared when I watched the footage after Like when I was at the stash house in Philadelphia with the dudes who are manufacturing fucking insane.

That was also when I insane.

In the moment. I'm not scared because I'm so like focused on getting the video.

And like those guys were manufacturing trank.

Trank which is a combination of xylazine which is horse tranquilizer, and fentanyl. So basically it makes it so like trank is really cheap and also makes a it's a tranquilizer, so you can have a bag of fentanyl that's like one quarter fent one quarter three quarters trank, and it's gonna hit basically the same, just have a little bit more of like tranquilizing effect so that you can make a bunch of money. And xylazine is maybe one hundred times cheaper than fentanyl, and you can buy it legally

Ye know, that was a wild episode. It's funny because actually, you know that hit close to home recently, my son's mom passed away in Philadelphia from an overdose.

Damn rest in peace man.

Yeah yeah, yeah, but I mean it was fentanyl for sure. But that trank shit, it hasn't hit LA yet.

No, No, it's pretty crazy that it hasn't because it's hit Baltimore, has a HITD Atlanta, it's Baltimore, DC.

In Boston.

Yeah, it's like a people's like limbs get swollen up and yeah, so if you miss a van with the trank like this condition can happen called necrotizing fasciitis, which is a flesh eating bacterial disease or something like that. So it literally consumes your limbs and if you don't treat it within the first four to five days, amputation is the only option, or it can spread to your heart and you get sepsis and you really can't survive that.

And they're withdrawing from dope.

So like it's just really difficult because you don't have to you can't kidnap people. You have to ask them to go to treatment.

Yeah, that Kensington area is so.

But it's tough because if you go to somebody whose arm is falling off and you say, like, bro, you have to go to the hospital, and they say no, they're they're adult.

Free human beings. Can't make somebody do something, right, Yeah.

It's crazy you h You went into the Chaz area too, right, Yeah, so I'm from Capitol Hill, Seattle. I would say that that's where you're from.

Okay, So I grew up in Philly in Fair Mountain, North Philly. So I was ten.

My dad was a big grunge fan and he worked in the tech end streets. So we moved out to Yeah, we moved to Capitol Hill and that's like where Chaz was. So that that like that corner Tenth and Pike call Anderson Park.

I grew up like in that neighborhood.

That's your area.

So I'm in I'm in Minneapolis right where the actual riots popped off, like by Lake Street on the south side. And I get a call and someone says, Yo, the cops just ran out of the precinct. They abandoned the precinct in Capitol Hill. You know, the cops just gave it to the protesters.

I was like what. And so there was a four block.

Radius initially called the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone and then became Capitol Hill Organized Protest. And I was actually there basically the entire time, living in a tent. However, the footage was never released. M why not, because bro, he's embarrassing on some home, on some hometown ship.

It was.

It was bad, okay. So there was three phases. Phase one was like spirit of the Revolution, like Fidel Castro, like the people will rise up. Phase two was like burning man.

You have fools coming in on Greyhound buses from northern California, Eugene I called the Republic of Islam. That's southern Oregon, northern California. Are still slapping Max Dre like they just found out about it. And so people are pulling up like ooh, so folds are pulling up like you have drum circles. People are setting up stages, they're doing dubstep sets, you know what I mean.

And then the initials Viva a Revolution. Young crowd is like, what the fuck fuck these books.

They start beefing it, and then so they start kind of canceling each other for different shit.

Meanwhile, people are living there like they have their apartment right there.

And then week three, the you know, the trappers, the hoods in Seattle, like in the South End and Tacoma, start figuring out that the cops aren't coming there, so they have all their their their fiends go from downtown in different areas to Capitol Hill. And then different gangs start taking control of different parts of the park.

So it was Revolution week, what week? And then Gang week.

I'm there the whole time, my tank keeps getting stolen, and then so that so literally you had, bro, I've never seen something like this in Seattle by the basketball courts. Kids fifteen year old kids with shisties and guns fucking bigger than their entire bodies. And this is a safe urban park in a gateighborhood. So I'm like, bro, this is insane, and so what happened?

I really.

Remember there was a fatal shooting on the fourth of July. I was like, right next to it. I thought it was fireworks because it was fourth July. Someone got killed right there. And this antiphametic chic, you know, like in full costume, comes running up and she goes, there's a gang war happening at the park and I'm like, I literally look at I go, what gangs are fighting?

Just say the name of one of the gangs. Since you're from Seattle, what are the gangs called?

And she's like, I don't know.

And so the moment after the fatal shooting happened. The next morning, all of the medics and all of the organizers and all the wooks and all the revolutionaries they leave and the park just becomes like Hamsterdam and the wire and then the cops at that point come in and shut it down.

Wow.

So I filmed the whole thing. I still have the footage. I'm thinking about putting it out.

Dude. Honestly, that's that's pretty sick.

Yeah, it was crazy, but I was like, you know, it was just real, Like God, Seattle took the l on that one.

You know.

What's so crazy is I feel like on like like when we think about like I think people who are extreme left and Antifa and and all these people and on the other side, the QA non folks. I feel like everyone has pretty they feel like they're doing the right thing, like they have everybody there, they have like good intention in their heart right, and I feel like there just has to be like, you know, I don't

The thing is though, is like these groups, these vocal minorities, get a lot of his ability because they make noise. But I think that a good like seventy percent of the country is on the same page as you and I. You know, they see the shit from Afar. They might react to a certain thing a certain way or slant,

Ideas for sure. So I just think that like the actual left.

That Trump always talks about has no actual power over the liberals.

Liberals don't give a fuck about unions, you.

Know, They're more concerned with like calling Trump supporters Nazis and white supremacists and throwing labels on people. So there is going to be a point where we can have discourse. But like I said, twenty twenty eight's that year.

You know, there's just this, Like you said, it's on the left, dude, Because on the I feel like I have conversations with like my cousin, like this is another thing I stopped talking about. I was a part of this, like the left that stopped talking to people over Trump in twenty sixteen.

That was a real thing.

My cousin James, who's like my closest cousin in my life, voted for Trump was vocal about it on Facebook, and I just stopped talking to him for like two years.

You guys are good now, yeah, see America is healing.

No. But I felt terrible about it, and I realized, like, dude, I was fucking tripping, bro. Yeah yeah, bro like I was bro. I was one of the guys shaming people for not getting I shamed this motherfucker for not getting vaccinated. Every fucking time we'd go, I'd be like, you're a fucking b That was me. And I just realized, like dog, like, I'm I'm a part of the side that's the most judgmental, Yeah, which is crazy because the other side's supposed to be Nazis.

Yeah.

I remember back in the day when COVID first popped off in Seattle. You could be getting a you could be having a picnic in a park.

Just you and two people.

If you spread a blanket out and somebody took their mask off for a second, you'd have somebody in the cut with an N ninety five on like this. They'd take a picture of you, They'll put it online. Find you're at that, Like, what's this person's at? Super spreader, super spreader, complicit in the genocide of those who were disabled and complicit in the genocide of the immune compromise, and they would they would lose their job, they would lose everything.

I saw this shit happening in real time. Uh so sad, dude, bro I was. I remember when COVID popped off.

So I was in Seattle and I was like, I gotta go somewhere more, you know, more hippied out because I'm like, I gotta see somebody. So I went down to Eureka, California, and I stayed with my homegirl and she told me, she was like, listen, I don't care about this COVID shit, or I do care about if if if I see you in public with somebody and they take a picture of you or they see you with somebody else, I'm gonna get in trouble.

Okay, what do you mean trouble? She was like, I could lose my job.

It was the same thing that was I mean in Australia, it was crazy. Yeah, like people were like going to jail. And that's my thing is like, you know, uh, I just feel like we get so I just feel like we stopped questioning shit for a while there where it was like, hey, like, isn't a little weird that there's a ticker on the screen on CNN with the death total going up like it's a fucking basketball game.

Yeah, like what is like?

And everybody like the fuck? And I'm over here buying gloves and shit and fucking I got so much sanitizer left over from COVID.

It's crazy abouteah garage. Yeah, I was. I mean I I was sort of tweaked out too.

You know.

It was just a crazy time and I feel like we're still kind of living in the shadow of twenty twenty.

For sure, And then now you look back and you're like, Okay, well, you know, I know I dealt with this because I had two sons, who you know, my kid was fourteen and was like dealing with depression because he was just stuck at home. And the people who lost their businesses, especially here in California. You know, there's like restaurants that were losing their businesses while there was like catering on movie sets. Yeah shit, And it was like like make it make sense, you know, like.

Yeah, and Walmart was open though you know what I mean exactly, dispensaries were open.

Yeah, I didn't know that.

Yeah, no dispensaries were open. They never closed down dispensaries here, which was interesting. But yeah, I don't know, man, I just feel like, you know, like you said, man, like this is what we get. We get Trump again. Yeah, definitely, like all that crazy shit, this is this.

Is what you get. We earned this shit, We earned it.

We fucking earned it. Man. Do you feel like there was a point in time for you where you know, you as a as a young journalist, like, was it always kind of the idea to kind of tell both sides because obviously, like you said, you're more of a burnie guy, so you yeah, but you know you have like your your set of values. But to be able to kind of cover like people who you harshly disagree with, yeah, and show them give them like a fair shake. Was that difficult for you?

No, I've always been like that because you know, I grew up, like I said, in the city, always run different kinds of people, exposed to different personalities. I also went to school in the Deep South in New Orleans, so it was like I got I got.

Exposed to a ton of Southern stuff.

So by the time I started my career, I was like, I want to show people on the West Coast what it's like in the South. I want to show people in the South what it's like where I'm from in Seattle. So I already felt like I had two different upbringings, but as far as like the unbiased thing, like I'm not unbiased.

No human being is unbiased.

No, for sure, but you, I feel like you do a really good job of of trying to like tell both I tell tell the story as much down the middle as you can, And definitely, I just feel like that's something that that is very like, Yeah.

I definitely appreciate it.

I just wanted to make that point because there's so many journalists claiming to be unbiased, but I'm like everybody has biases based upon how they.

Grew on the planet, has a personal bias exactly.

Like shit, I use the example the other day, like whenever the George Floyd thing happened, like I had lost a couple friends growing up to police brutality, So as soon as that happened, I was sort of on board with like whatever had whatever had to happen. I saw buildings going up in flames, and I was like, hell, yeah, me too. But if I grew up in you know, Iowa, and my dad was the police chief and a town of five hundred people, and he was rescuing cats from

You know, how are you? How's your what is your perspective on those protesting riots? You know, what would it be five years later? Now, like almost five years four and a half years later. I feel like, you know, black Lives Matter as a statement is obviously a factual statement. I feel like that the and the intent of that movement was was pure and had great intentions, but somehow it got twisted and used against well.

I mean, if you look at every social movement that begins organically, there is people out there, grifters and profiteers who will figure out a way to make an industry out of it. And the same thing happens with every social movement in America. It takes about two years, maybe three years, for you know, Black Lives Matter LLC to become a donation farm to where people were just like embezzling in mansions.

That's what happens yeah, you know what I mean.

And so it's more like I feel like shame on somebody for not realizing that, like why are you giving money to the Black Lives Matter? Two and a half years later, I thought the protests were great. I think that they began very straightforward and organic, like this is about police brutalizing black people in the streets, period, and then it took only about a month later it kind of became about everybody.

You know, they added the black stripe to the Pride flag and you're seeing people out there and I'm like, wait a second, you know, shout out to all the LGBT people out there. But I thought this was about police brutality against Black Americans, and so you just sort of see this forced intersectionality obscure the message, and before you know it, it's not what it was supposed to be. It's not.

And that's just what happens because white guilt is so powerful that you have white people who have any type of disadvantage, whether it be gender, income level, but mostly it's gender and orientation, and they say, you know what, I don't want to be the scarecrow that people were throwing eggs at right now.

I don't want to be the.

Bad part of the bad white out group during this protest movement. Let me figure out how it can join the side of the oppressor by giving myself something to stand on. So they're almost chasing down oppression to almost put on their back, as opposed to the actual purpose of liberation, which is to get away from it. So it's very sad you saw that, especially in Portland, where you know, you had groups actually obviously taking advantage.

Of the neighborhood. They ruined Portland downtown.

For Yeah, okay, that's one argument, But then if you look at why did downtown Portland, Downtown SF, and downtown Seattle grow the way they did before COVID, it's because all these tech companies were getting taxed, so they moved their offices there.

And then they left it. They they once COVID happened, everyone left and they figured out they start out resources out, They figured out.

They can make more money having people work on Zoom from home, and they didn't have to pay HR, they didn't have to maintain these office buildings. So you have office buildings like in San Francisco there are thirty six stories where only two of the floors are being used, the rest are vacant, and landlords don't want to go down on price for these tech apartments they built for the workers that are now living in Idaho or wherever

This is corporate elite fucking bullshit.

Yeah, I think it's I think I think this. I think that's like a perfect example of both though it's like it's a it's two things can be true at the same time. It's like, yes, these tech cities where all of this massive income and all these people just decided to just be like deuces. Yeah, that's that's one thing. And then the other side, like in the Bay you know,

Yeah, it's the bipping is out of control. Bro.

I was by Lake Merritt in the RV like a year and a half ago. I'm chilling by Lake Marriott.

Bro.

It's a beautiful day, probably two pm, you know, Lake Marrion downtown Oaklyan. So I'm chilling right there in the RV and this valet guy comes up to me and he goes, don't don't park your car here.

I go. Why.

He goes, it's gonna get bipped. I go no, Like, I'm gonna stay in the car. It's gonna be fine. He's like, nah, don't even stay in the car. So I'm chilling in the car. I swear to God, I opened the door to like, you know, just get some air. Walk out for a second. A mini van pulls up

Ninja wild Like my boy Samson, he was pumping gas about to return his rental outside of the Oakland Airport. So he's at the car, he's on the phone, pumping gas, and before he knows it, his backpack in his back seat is gone. Yeah, and he's running after a car that within seconds they got him. Like the bay is fucking crazy.

Yeah, And so there's certain shit like that where you that's not just income inequality.

That is the cops and well that's not doing their job right.

And that's just like at the end of the day, if there are loopholes that allow you to hit licks, yeah, you're gonna take advantage of those loopholes. Yeah, Like it is what it is.

And one thing that liberals don't understand is this, some fools just like hitting licks.

You know what I mean, Like, no matter what happens.

It's not like everyone hitting a lick is like I can't afford food.

Some fools love hitting licks. I grew up with people who are rich, middle class, impoor. They listen to Chief Keep all day they're trying to hit a lick. It's not like they woke up with not being able to put cornflakes in the bowl.

Facts.

And I'm just saying that's something that you can't explain to people because you're like, what do you mean they like it? You think there's something about them genetically that made them Like, No, I didn't fucking say that. I just said fools be hitting licks, yes and I and they don't get it, you know what I mean.

But we're not going to explain it to them. But if they live in this city for long enough and somebody hits it, hits a lick on your ship, You're not gonna be like, wow, you know what, even though they stole my car, I hope they can feed their family. Like, where do you think we're in? Fucking Darfur? The this is you know.

I'm just saying, would you would you say based on your your you know, obviously your experience being up up in the northwest and covering Portland and covering the Bay and I go back to your reference of Hamsterdam from the wire, based on like just your experience and your perspective, because perspective matters.

Uh, would you say the Hamsterdam model is one that is sustainable? No?

And here's why specifically it might be sustainable if it was like a nationwide policy. But you got to think in all the ordering states to Washington and Oregon, Idaho, Montana, even Utah and states like that.

Yeah, I lived in Boise.

It's illegal to be homeless in a lot of these states. They will put you in jail for your third vagrancy ticket for ninety days. They'll prosecute, they'll they'll burn your shit.

You know what I mean.

A lot of people get harassed and they get and not only that, but I was in Austin, Texas one time, one time, and I watched the city book two hundred and fifty greyhound bus tickets and sending homeless people from Seventh Street in downtown to Portland.

So what year was that?

That was before all this chaos? Twenty fourteen?

Oh, you know what I mean.

So this has been happening.

So what happens is if Seattle says, you know what, We're gonna enact harm reduction policies and open up a needle exchange or something like that for people to not get HIV and have se right here, all of a sudden, these other counties, not even just different states, are like, okay, perfect, Now I know where to send one hundred thousand drug addicts, and so it's impossible to maintain the Hamsterdam model when these different states have such different policies.

I wonder what is your perspective on and you know, because I think what happened in the last twelve months or so was you noticed a lot of minority communities feeling a certain way about like the same places like Chicago, New York City, Like immigration hitting I mean obviously Governor Abbott putting people on buses setting it into New York City,

It's hard to see what's real and true about that, because that particular narrative is perfect for the conservative established right, like Wese see these poor people, working class people don't like migrantcsy either. I don't know how real that actually is, Like if you look at New York City right most of the migrants are being held in shelters in Long

They're like, yo, you got you gotta fucking you gotta fucking loft in New York.

So I feel like a lot of a lot of it is like Jesse Waters going to the hood in the Bronx and being like, I don't know if you saw, young man, but they just got a free phone down there.

And then I was as like, what the fuck a fuck that? I don't know if if it's actually accurate.

It is Also it's possible for poor and working class people to also be syopped by hypnototic media. Hypnotic media, you know what I mean, without.

Knowing, because they're if you're poor and you see somebody getting free shit, that's how they turn the white working class against the black communities. In the eighties, during a primitive extre so it's it's a little mini version of that. If you go to a poor, poor person anywhere and you show them a video of someone getting free shit, they are probably gonna be BacT.

There and then you're able to take that footage put it on TikTok and then it spreads like a while.

It's like showing a rich person a video of somebody breaking into a mansion.

Yeah, I think to the thing I just saw recently that was going viral on TikTok was like this like idea that like you could get a reward for turning in, and I think they came out and said it's not real. But it was like, like you mentioned the word sip. It felt like it was like this fake thing that

Any and most importantly it's not good for them. Like I have a friend from Senegal or a friend now, and I met him at the border. He had just hopped, right, So he gets he goes to border in Arizona.

Too, in Arizona right by Lukeville crossing Gringo Pass. Yeah, so he's telling.

A Rockey point. I go by there.

Yeah, I'm talking to him, and he's excited. He's like, I can't wait to get to America and work, you know. Abbot bustes him to New York and he just got his asylum appointment date and it's for twenty twenty nine, so he can't get and he.

Can't get his work papers, and he can't get anything. He can't even receive a green card. He can't even be heard by a judge.

Because now you're just in limbo for on limbo for years for him, and the shelter says, we can't have space for you. We have more migrants coming in. So he's living on the streets right now trying to see who will hire him for under the table work and paying him in cash. He's getting paid four bucks an hour because you got you know, deli owners and shit trying to save money asking him to mop the floor. That's not a life he wanted in the US either.

And how man and that times, however many hundred thousand is happening.

Yeah, there should be there should be a clear path to citizenship, which makes his whole situation avoidable for sure.

And then and then that's the thing is like, if there is like an I think that it just kind of all got mixed up to where it's like, okay, well, if it's a free for all at the border, then whatever bullshit systems in place for people, Like you said, the asylum system, I know, the asylum courts is a fucking jokey. It's just not sustainable, dude. Yeah.

Also, asylum policies were a conservative thing. I think the first asylum policy was during Reagan. It was called wet foot, dryfoot, and that was to inspire Cubans to flee the island during communism. And they said, if you can get in a boat to Miami, the moment you touch sand or soil. You're an American citizen. So it was supposed to incentivize people to defect from communist regimes or enemies of the US. So Venezuela, that's exactly who we want. Because that's good for Trump.

They're leaving communism, they're coming here for a better capitalist life. I think that's good for old school Republicans exactly. I feel like the new shit is different.

And people are exploiting the asylum system. Wherever you stand left to right, that system is being exploited. Being poor is not an asylum.

Claim, so if you get here. When I was interviewing Mexicans at the border, these are poor people saying I'm being targeted by the cartel. They're gonna kill me. Every single one of them said that.

I also heard like, if you are if you say you're lgbt Q, if you're coming from like an area that frowns upon it, they grant you asylum too.

I'm sure I mean that.

Homy and TJ was telling me that. He's like, yeah, he's like, if you just say you, if you just say you're gay at the border, like me, try it. I don't know. No. He comes back and forth like he lives in TJ and works in the U.

Tell him hop the border act as gay as possible, like yo.

Come with a boyfriend. You know.

No, by the way, speaking to the border, we were just to know Paso ware is a couple a couple of days ago, wild place wars is crazy.

We're just there.

And so you know that video of like Trump's first wave of deportations where you see like a bunch of young dudes walking across the border back in New Mexico. So speaking to sy Offs, those people had been held there for like three months and we're just being processed, and Trump said, don't process him, send him back right now so we can get the good optics.

So they had a camera crew.

Set up in Warez from Breitbart, from these conservative outlets, being like, the deportations are happening, but those people got apprehended, apprehended under Biden criminal right.

It's just content manipulation, man, It's what it is. Everyone's fucking playing the TikTok game the fund It's that's fucking wild.

Yeah yeah, Jesus.

You you you based on like your interactions with everybody who were coming over the border, because do you know there's this narrative that there's all there's this massive spike and single Chinese men coming over of military age and.

You know, single Chinese men of military age. Imagine being described that way. No, exactly what I'm saying.

And then you know, we're kind of like in this like cold war with China, and they're sending, they're sending, they're sending, uh, you know, all these cells.

Over every Chinese person works for the Chinese.

Government apparently, right right, yeah, exactly. There's no poor people in China exactly. Yeah, because for people who don't know the extreme poverty in Chinese. Yeah, yeah, but it was

The case, it didn't work right. Also, dude, migrants can't vote. They're not citizens, right, They literally can't vote. They can't even But I don't even need to get into that. The point is the reason you see somebody single men at the border hopping the borders because their entire families are back home.

So it's like they come and work and they send money back. I mean, this is a very normal thing.

How would they take their family?

Their family?

You want your little kids and your wife to work, she has to take care of the kids.

Yeah, you want your fucking kids walking across the desert in Arizona in the summertime.

Yeah, you can die shot. That's a human borders giving water to those people.

Yeah, that's it's fucking crazy.

But yeah, bro, like, of course it's going to be single man, but like it's it's a it's been it's been strange.

But yeah, the border being wide open was a huge problem.

What do you went to Colorado right during the yeah gang for trendy Aragua.

Yes, td t d A just taken over the apartments, taxing everybody.

I mean again, there was a crazy video that went viral now I know. It was like it was like red meat.

Yeah, like I have some really bad news. There's a gang at an apartment building in the hood, and one's like, what the fuck is happening?

There's a gang in every apartment building.

Right, so what did you say? Like going there? What did you did you? What did you?

Okay, here's the verdict on on Colorado. There was a gang in the apartment building period, which caused the landlord to be like, you know what, bro, there's a gang here.

He was a slumlord name that from Florida.

He owned like six different super badly maintained properties, right, so he was like, you.

Know what, bro, there's gangs over running the ship.

I don't even want to take care of it. I'm abandoning the property. So there was no more, no more landlord services happening, no more plumbing, no more electricity, just the services were being under maintained. He was getting sued by the city of Aurora, Colorado, so he hired a crisis PR firm called Red Bandon Communications to basically plant that story about the gang takeover, to be like, they beat me up and forced me out of the property.

So two things were true. At one time. It was a gang of illegally of undocumented viagrants from Venezuela who were gang banging, and you had a shitty landlord. I don't understand how people can't see those two things seem to go hand in hand. I actually think.

There's that That's almost always the case. Everywhere you see gangs in the projects, the property is poorly maintained. Have you ever seen a nice apartment building with a gang in it?

It's possible.

No, that's funny. Yeah, Like you said, two things can be true at the same time.

And also gang see a shitty maintained spot and they're like, I'm gonna go gang.

Did you see the story that came out a couple of nights ago. They were like, Yo, in Colorado there was a Venezuelan gang house party and we rated it got forty gang members off. I'm like, first of all, shout out to those guys were being like brave enough to throw a house party. Yeah, in the same week Trump gets elected for sure, obviously not the smartest place.

Yeah.

Also, dude, what about the one hundred thousand gang members here in Los Angeles?

Right?

What what are we talking about? Right, it's so crazy.

But conservatives have never met a gang member, so they're like, oh my god, the gang members have arrived. It's like the gang members are here, started here, Yes, all the MS thirteens started in Koreatown.

People don't realize that MS thirteen is a California gang that obviously exported Del Salvador.

Yeah, and our prison system, Harvest is an incubator for the most powerful gangs in the world.

So it's really crazy.

When you get people being like, bro, the border's open and now people are gang bang. But if you show that clip on Fox News and you're in Little Rock, Arkansas, actually lit Rocks pretty good. Let me use a different example. If you're in Omaha, it's actually pretty good too.

Okay.

If you're in Boise, Idaho and the rural outskirts and you see a video of the border and then people gang banging right after, you're like, here we go.

Yeah crazy. Have you ever covered Mormons at all? And you're no, I haven't.

But you know, when I first got to Salt Lake City, I went to Temple Square and they were in plain clothes and they're like, hey, what's up man? I thought they were fans.

Like, oh, yeah, good to meet you. Bro.

I was like, you want a picture, and they were like a picture.

Have you read the word? Like ah?

Man.

So I grew up in Mesa, which is outside of Phoenix, like yeah, twenty minutes and it's a big Mormon population. So I'm very very intrigued. And then I moved to Boise. I did radio and bois for a year, which is the third largest Mormon population. It's just such a very very interesting culture of people.

They're really nice.

There's the nicest people ever. Their religion is pretty wild. Yeah, it is pretty crazy. Like there's I would love to see you. Is there some more if some more in the Mormon shiit pops up? Yeah, I would love to see you.

I mean I love Salt Lake City.

Like there's this bar that they're called Twilight Lounge that I like a lot, you know what I mean. So, and most of the kids who get drunk there every day are from Mormon families and they just drink and they just like sit there and be.

Like oh yeah. Like when I was a kid, like the kids in high school who were like doing like real drugs or all Mormons because they were like revolting.

Yeah, that's people don't know.

But Salt Lake City is like a many New Orleans when it comes to alcohol consumption because these kids who defect or they kind of break off from the church, they drink like amish people on Rum's from Man.

You know, I went to Salt Lake once. We went for the day. We went to interview a young boy at his house.

Such a good video, bro, Yeah, shout out to him, man, that's one of my favorite interviews.

Shout out to young boy. Free that man, Free him. I know.

All he had to do was not do that.

All he had to do was just just not like fake prescriptions. So you have everything like like like what that young boy story came out? I was like, really, bro, wait, is.

It correct that he went to the Walgreens and said I'm a doctor?

He called I think it was over the phone. I think he called in over the phone as a fake. Again, this is all.

Can you imagine young boy trying to sound like not young boy because somebody's.

Just hanging out with him like super nice guy. You know. But yeah, you spent some time here in LA with crit Mac, who obviously is incarcerated. Shout out to krypt Mac. Do you keep in any contact with him at all.

Yeah, a little bit.

Do you know what's going on with his case?

Is there any I mean, he's just gonna do his time. He'll be out next Christmas.

So he'll be out next Christmas.

Nice Christmas.

Yeah, shot. What is your thoughts on like that? I guess because I feel like krit Mac was kind of like the beginning of the commercial commercialization in the podcast space of like gang banging it's bad. It's like it's becoming like a you know, whether it's cam capone you know, obviously no jumper at him, you know, you go on. I mean there's it's kind of crazy, like like gang politics have now become like real just YouTube content, like it's.

A serious content farm. What I've noticed though, is like once the lore is kind of oversaturated and figured out, people kind of move on. For example, like the Hyracology way of like all the gdbd O block cutard ship that had like four years of people figuring out everything, and now you hear you've heard every story like every FBG BUTTA interview.

I'm like, I know that already.

I'm not sure how I know that, But like you got dudes like traploor Ross who are breaking down the scientific moment by moment progression of these beefs and then they figure it out and it's kind of just like, all right, we understand Chicago.

Because he did like a four hour King von like documentary that was fucking I couldn't get through it.

He might be the greatest drill documentarian.

I was gonna ask you, what are your thoughts on a guy like because he obviously fancies himself a journalist.

Yeah, he's definitely a journalist.

What are your thoughts on Trapel?

I think he's dope. I mean I think that.

You know, last time I went on to Jumper, I was pretty critical about like just the gangbang in space being commercialized and.

The way that has been.

But at the same time, now that I look back, I think the real person to blame is the record labels. I mean, the people pushing this shit in the first place. You can't blame journalists and podcasters for responding to that demand. It wasn't like they pulled these people out of a hat. I'm curious about King von No, Atlantic and all these record labels they decide, Okay, we're going to commercialize gang music.

Yeah, I think too, Like you know, it's interesting because a lot of these guys always say this because I'm not a big Drill fan, Like it's just never was like my shit, you know. But I feel like nowadays the kids aren't into like you'll see it all the time with like let's say like pull a name out of Kwanda Rondo. Yeah, like he's known, but like he

I know when Fulio died, like the next day that Young and A song right five in the morning, got a call who is this? One hundred thousand comments? I'm like, just even the comment like just so some.

Of the comments are just so like people like don't have a heart.

Well, it's it's even beyond that, they don't see them as human beings like superheroes and the drill. They don't exactly lives as valuable. I mean, it's it's depressing, but like it's not gonna end.

It's not gonna end.

So it's like I'm a big proponent and like, don't critique things too heavily that you can't stop for sure, you know, And like the youth is hypnotized by violent and violent violence and violent music.

Yeah, I think you know. You know you mentioned going on to a jumper, Like I think you know. I think Adam is to me, Like I always tell people when they you know, because I'm tight with Adam. He's the home and I always say, like, hey man, Adam's

DJ small eyes.

Nah, he does like a glugs No does. He does a lot of like Northern Cali shit.

I haven't seen it before, but Northern California is way more active than here.

Oh like Stockin's crazy, Yeah yeah, Stockings fucking.

The cool thing about how Adam has been able to develop his platform is like the SoundCloud era was huge, right, and it took place in La obviously like Melrose and Fairfax.

But it wasn't an LA scene.

It was like a Florida thing.

But but I mean, like this was this the hub of like media for it for sure, and a lot of like the rappers lived here and like once it fizzled out, like you still he figured it out because he was like, all right, we gotta make something out of just like l a Native rap and there's some sick rappers from La X four RS three. I still listen to Draco every days.

Amazing the truth. Yeah, long live Draco for you man? What is what is like when you put a movie out like Dear Kelly and and you know you're getting a lot of love for it. It's an amazing documentary. I thought, I don't know what is your team? Like? Is it how many of you are there?

So there's me, Susan who's like the senior producer, uh, Timmy and Liam who work in the office. And now I have four editors Gabe, Wiggy, Ethan, Charlie and then my homie Drew edit from Texas. So I don't know how many people that is in total, but it's a it's a nine person team. And then I got correspondence like Hosue in Mexico City.

I watched, Yeah, I watched his TJ episode.

Yeah, the oh that's that's the Homi.

Beanie from La Okaysuay did the Mexico City gentrification.

He just did. I just saw that one I saw. I saw the Mexico City one.

I saw it, and he's doing a cock fighting episode right now, which is gonna be sick, which is like a deep in the country of Mexico. And then we have like correspondent in Israel won in New Zealand, and then yeah, but in general, I would say, like, oh, then JP, the homey from New York is the social media clips.

So I don't know how big your team is. Is it more or less than ten?

Two?

Oh shit, there's got to be a third. There's that my boy Erica Rock helps Okay, so my team is probably like around your size, like under twenty more than three.

Damn yeah, it's it's crazy. Uh. And the other thing you started to do was dub over your videos in different languages, which I think mister Beast was Like, was it mister Beast who started doing that? Ship?

I mean, he's the one who made me want to do it, now that I watched mister Beasts religiously, but I've seen mister Beat, so I just know, like he has a town in North Carolina. It's like a YouTube town, right where he has a whole studio there with like different overdubbed team for Different.

Prime show is really good. Oh really Beast Games. It's like real life squid games. You have kids, right, yeah, that's why you're watching of course, okay, of course. Yeah. Yeah. It's like there's no way you get off work and you're like here we go. No, there was like it's good though, it's yeah.

Yeah.

So I was gonna ask you because you did you you talked about your correspondence. You did a really dope video about it was it took place, and there was you kind of showed both perspectives in terms of what was going on in Lebanon. Yeah, and I think you said the video would did get demonetized.

I mean that video has been like a nightmare. Like every correspondent who is in that video is now mad at me for some reason. Wow, you know, because I had someone in Israel and someone eleven.

Because you had someone on the Israeli side talk and someone on the Lebed East side talk, and.

Some British guys interviewed this hes blow dude, and they're mad because I didn't put him in the credits because I forgot to, And like it's just that that that piece was a trilateral nightmare. Damn.

But it was good man. Thank you. I'm glad you liked it, bro, because I feel like it's important because I feel like, again, there's just these there's there's especially with that situation. It's like, you know, it just sucks because I'm sure we probably aligned pretty closely in terms of how we feel about that. The war that's been happening for over a year. Definitely this bullshit ceasefire that

Yeah, which is crazy.

Yeah, but you know, for you, like interviewing a Hesbela member on camera, that's a risk for you. Yeah. I didn't do it though, no I know, but just it's your platform. So like telling the side of the Hesbela.

Dude, I thought, soldier, I thought that covering MAGA and Antifa shit opened me up to criticism.

Brother. You should have seen when I dropped the Hesbela interview.

Dude.

People were calling me like a pro terrorism platform, like you know what I mean. I had comments in Hebrew like wishing death upon me and shit.

I was like, this is they don't play about them at.

Least would you, because I think the other story that I really would like to see somebody really trying to tackle in like as is like what's going on in the West Bank. Yeah, yeah when the settlers and like there's like a it's pretty fucked.

Yeah, those settlers are on some shit. You seen videos of them? Oh my god, what's wrong with them?

What is wrong?

Seriously?

They're like maniac like yeah, like what nightmares are made of. Like there's this lady who's just so mean and evil.

Yeah, they're like homeless people with ars.

They're like homeless people with ars. Bingo. But like you said, dude, like this shit, it's like almost like there's like this like you just can't talk about it.

No, well, I mean you can, but it's just like you're opening yourself up so much, like dude.

Because again with the labels you're anti Semitic or it's the same thing with like if you disagree with anything on the left, Yeah, you're a trumper, you're a Nazi.

It's yeah, it's even worse when you're talking about Israel Palestine though, because you get your channel really taken down.

Yeah, it's interesting too because it's like to see kind of like the MAGA correlation with like Israel. Yeah, and then you know, but then there's like the outliers on the right who are like so far like anti Israel, like, uh, what's the guy's name with the beer, the fucking Dan Basaria, And.

Yeah, that shit's so funny.

It's also just been so funny to see like MAGA aligned with is because like for two years they.

Were like the Jewish Cabal of deep state apac elites or.

The Q fuck.

Yeah, these Q fucks yeah yeah, and then and then now they're lying, they're like funk terrorism.

Yeah, it's crazy.

You know, it's hell of funny. But yeah, man, I'm definitely not done covering the Middle East, but I'm taking a little breather and trying to figure it out. Next time I'm gonna go out there, be careful, Yeah, I'll be Yeah.

Belly has a line he did in a freestyle where he said hero villain, it's all perspective, and it's like, yeah, yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy. What are your thoughts on, because you know, it's been an interesting first week and a half of President Trump's What are your thoughts on the first week and a half?

Well, I'll say this man, if Trump does some good things for the country and the quality of life improves for average American, I'm not gonna go above and beyond to try and make him look bad. I'm not this like weird guy who's just like operating on some anti Trump spighte. If things get good, I'll cover that too. So I look at it as like we have no

Which is always like I mean, that's what the craziest thing is is the you know, the extreme poverty is growing, and then just the wealth gap is just getting It's almost like, you know, the shit that's happening with trying.

To buy homes in America and American dream is over, and the gap of regional understanding is crazy. Like, for example, California is being overtaken by tech transplants and rich people from other places, causing working class Californians to flee to Arizona and Texas. And then they say, don't California, my Texas and they look at them as the problem when their problem is low key.

Them fucking with Black California.

It's just like this cycle and black Rock owns everything and everything's all bad. But like I said Brad twenty twenty eighth that year.

Yeah I hope, so man, I sure hope. So yeah, yeah, I think it's it's just it's just it's disheartening because it's like, damn, dude, like I can I don't imagine, Like if I was like twenty two to twenty three right now, I wouldn't even even like the thought of like buying an entry level condo couldn't even cross my mind.

Yeah, I don't. I don't own anything.

Yeah you know what I mean.

Yeah, that's yeah, except by in my two thousand and seven Tacoma the car. But I mean, aside from that, I don't even want to buy a house. If I do buy a house, it's gonna be in the cut in the country. Like young boy, So you were in Phoenix for a while, I lived in Phoenix.

For an entire year.

I'm gonna blow the lid off that no one knows that I was on forty fourth and camel Back, living behind the village it's an athletic club. Great area, holding it down, Indian School, Chopper John's.

Siparadia, Yeah, Arcadia, Arcadia, Scottsdale, CUSP.

Yeah, great area. Yeah, so you enjoyed it? Did you enjoy your year?

I love Phoenix, bro, I'm not gonna lie.

I was a major Tucson flag staff guy and I moved to Phoenix and I said, you know what, I'm a figure out. Had to make this place as fun as possible, and I figured out my spots.

And I got a lot of love for Phoenix.

Now.

Yeah, and Phoenix, I always thought it was like the Dallas of the West. It's like a gross, infinite sprawl of nothingness and identical suburban cul de sacs. But Phoenix is tight.

No, it is tight for sure. Yeah. I mean you were in a good area too. Great food around there.

Good food, good vegan food, you know. I mean.

The only part I don't like Phoenix really, and I hate to be negative, is like the downtown Scottsdale area.

Oh yeah, old town.

Yeah, it's just not my thing.

Yeah, I mean I could see why not. It's very I mean, I know you own a club, a club in old Town Scott's.

Which is a good business play.

Yeah, I mean, and it's also the only black club in Scottsdale, so you know it's a hip hop club. We're booking like fucking whoever you could think of it. We just had Boston Richie Friday.

Oh really sick. That's tight. I like Tempi though.

Yeah. The Tempe's a vibe. Downtown Phoenix is a vibe.

You see. They had a candlelight vigil last night in Tempe for the goon for naughticham alone, Oh my god, goon in Heaven. Goon too soon?

Dude, that this whole fucking guy becoming like the mascot for gooning on Twitter.

It's horrible, bro.

It's so funny. My kids were like, my my son is like, yo, dad, you see they had a they had a they had a fucking they had a gooner role. I'm like, man, what.

The full text to me? The dude organize. He's like, you gotta pull up and I was already here and I was like, oh man, oh that would have been fired all right.

So yeah, no, there was like for people who don't know, there's like this guy's fucking forever on internet. Brain what brought Hall of fame. This guy who caught my friend owns that.

Place, Bikini Breast Bikini Beans.

Yeah, my friend Ben owns that place. Oh shit, so he posts. It's funny because he posted the video. He was the first guy that posted, and I just reposted it on my story within seconds. I was like, yo, track this creeped out.

Yeah for sure, and then like, I don't know.

Two days later it was like the guy killed himself and I felt kind of bad, yeah, because I was like, fuck, I shared that video.

Fuck was it two full days?

I don't even know.

I thought he went straight to a parking lot in Goodyear and just did the deed that.

I don't know. I don't know all the deats. I just know this guy is now, you know, fucking I didn't even know what dooning he was before two weeks ago.

You know about the Gilbert Goons, though, right, of course have you them?

Have you? Have you done anything? No Gilbert Good? No, I didn't.

I was focused on the border and I was like, I don't want to hear about this ship. But now, looking back, I wish I had an exclusive.

Yeah, the Gilbert Goons. For people who don't know, it's like this Gilbert is like the nicest area you could possibly live in. It's like one of them is pretty big Mormon area too. But just these fucking they get it.

They killed somebody, right, Rich kid gangs, rich kid Gary's you know, but like, dude, real ones, No, rich high school kid gangs are terrifying.

They catch bodies. There was one in Laurel Canyon, the Wonderland Gang. Yeah, the three eleven Boys in Las Vegas and Seattle. You had a gang called Spruce Mob that would hit licks at every house party. They never caught a body. But these kids got none to lose, no money.

Their parents are by.

Lawyers charged as juveniles.

Their daddy didn't love them enough, wasn't around enough. And what are they listening to? Fucking Chief Keef and fucking NBA young boy.

And so we're not gonna blame no Jumper for that, yo.

It's so oh my god, that's funny. Dude. You're obviously a big hip hop fan. Who were your like like like, like, who would you say he is like your favorite hip hop artists of all time?

I mean I grew up in like the litl Be Chief Key Cooks and Space Ghost Purp generation, you know, in between odd Future and trippy red if that makes.

Sense, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean this is good hip hop in there.

Yeah, yeah, that was kind of my era. I mean now, like I listened to a lot of Lah. I listened to a lot of sped up Florida music. Like I listened to a lot of jack Boy obviously Kodak, but you ever heard a nine to five to four fast pitch before DJ Frisco, DJ Fetti Fee.

I listened to a lot of.

Shit like that. The crazy shit is I had, you know, me and Denzel career homies and where I was like, yo, man, like first of all, Space Ghost Perp. He don't get enough fucking love for the influence he had. But like if Raider Clan and Asap Mob never beefed, yeah, Like, there was just so many possibilities that could have played out, dude.

And you know, we remember a public school breakfast when you going to give you the apple wrapped in plastic and a couple of eggs. So when I was in sixth grade, I used to go to public school breakfas and there was this dude that would sit at the table across from me. His name was Keishawn. He ended up joining Raider Clan and he was the only Seattle member. He's a rapper named key Niata. So we got to meet some of like the og Raider Clan people at

I'm trying to think. I wish I had more for you, but just the whole.

When you're a kid in Seattle, do you just like fucking Maclamore.

Let's go, well, the thing about Malcilmore and this is why Seattle guy, by the way, I fucked with Macklimore. This is why Seattle is such a hater city. Bro is because Malcilmore was the most respected underground legend.

For yeah No for a few years, Like he was like an underground rapper bro.

He went to Garfield High School. He's not a suburban cat. Malcolm was a certified, respected battle rapper, freestyle rapper from the inner city of Seattle who had the most respect. The moment Thrift Shop comes out, it hits a billion views, all of a sudden, he's the people in Seattle are like, haha, Mackelmore, this and that instantaneously hometown hate and jealousy.

Which is crazy because it's like, dude, this guy's such.

A good guy, such a good that's a band man. He's from the same neighborhood as me.

Oh wow, Yeah, he's such a good guy, dude, and he's like, you know, I think it's been just dope to see him like unapologetically take a stand for a fucking what's going on in Palestine.

He goes MLK on him, he does, he said some I forget what he said. No, he talks like MLK on him. You ever hear him fucking Malcolm wore being like I'm taking a stand, you know, it's of Yeah, he does it once every five years, and when he does it, he's not fucking playing.

I remember when he jumped on the fuck Donald Trump remix.

Oh shit, damn that song.

I forgot about He's on the Fuck Donald Trump remix? It was I think it was him and G Easy. I think it was why Yeah, it was y G. G Easy in Maclamore.

G Easy went to the small Catholic Catholic college that I went to in New Orleans. But check it out when that when I hear that instrumental from Fuck Donald Trump, it gives me goosebumps because that was it was being played during all the riots in Minneapolis. I can smell, I can feel the flames from the precinct burning on my face when I hear that instrumental.

Holy shit, you know what I mean?

That one and the beginning of the Fuck the Police instrumental before Boosey starts rapping with those two songs.

You'll never experience life until you're around a burning cop car with the song's playing.

What's what's next?

Man?

I'm this obviously. I know you you're gonna keep the channel growing and doing big ship, but like, you know, are you going to continue to do documentaries?

Yeah?

Do you think that with the success of this is the goal that I get to deal with Netflix, maybe be able to sell the next one to one of these bigger platforms.

No, I don't want to work with them really.

I mean, actually, you know what, I just don't want to be put in a position again to where my future is in the hands of somebody and some people I don't know. So I would definitely work with NETFLI in a licensing capacity, but I want every movie that I drop, I want to drop by myself first on my own websites, and I'm gonna go to them with the numbers and say, hey, if you like this, would you like to license it for a year. I won't

Here's how much money we made. Here's the reaction.

How would you like to go into business together? You license it, do as much as you want with it, then give it back one day so I can die with the ip.

That is the best situation. They tell you you can't do that.

Has anyone done it before? No?

No, because because what the platform say is, I know it's not that much money, and I know that we're going to own it. It's not going to be years, but you're going to be famous, and then that exposure is going to be your gateway into owning your content in the future one day. This is a model that I thought of, and once I explained it to my agent, he said, yeah, that's possible, and I was like, oh shit, really.

He's like yeah yeah.

I mean if you show why wouldn't they want Because at the end of the day, you have such a niche audience, and if it's something that you've already shown the proof of concept for like hey, no, it worked, we have this is then this is what we did. This is the buzz behind the movie. I mean, why wouldn't they license it?

Not a few reasons, but I mean, you know, in general.

Obviously I've had some controversy in the past that makes it difficult for them, and secondly marketing budget.

The controversy that you had, I thought it was. I mean, you don't have to speak on it, but I think just from a perspective of somebody who follows you and I think I gather what transpired. Yeah, I just thought it was It was very very uh Aziz an Zari type situation. In my opinion, it was like, yeah, are we really trying to cancel this guy?

And what happened behind the scenes is more unbelievable.

Yet to speak on it, but the point is is that I just felt like, you know, I felt like your situation and DISEASA situation was like the personification of cancel culture getting a little fucking out of hand. Yeah, like what are we doing here? But that's just me, I know, you know, like you said, you haven't spoke about behind the scenes, I'm sure.

I mean, it was basically, without giving too much information out because it's going to all come at at one time. Yeah, it was a lawyer and a group of people who most of whom I didn't know, trying to bait me into a civil settlement to give them a portion of the HBO movie payout. But I didn't play ball with these people. They sent out press releases to the media outlets who basically ran these pieces as a pressure tactic.

Wow. So they really try to, yeah, bully you into a payday.

Yeah, but I didn't do it. But I had to deal with you know, I had to really make a choice.

You had to face it.

Yeah, because if I were to pay the money to these people, then there'd be an NDA and nobody would learn about it. That's what most of the celebrities in the industry do. I was actually advised to do that by some of the people I was working with. They said, you know what, this is a part of becoming famous. You're going to have people who try to get money out of you. The best thing to do is take

Go up and up and up. I just I didn't want to be on that hook.

But the point is because I haven't really spoke too much about that situation with receipts, yet I still have this issue to where like even today, People Magazine was supposed to run a feature on me. They had the whole thing written, and then ten minutes before it's supposed to come out, up the editor in chief, because of the controversy, decided to nix the story.

These guys are pussies, but.

That's the world they live in. It's so crazy, So I'd be crazy to pretend like that's not a road block to getting my shit on Netflix, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean I think if there's anything that hopefully, you know, we think about the positives that could happen with fucking old fucking orange face being president again, is like a lot of that shit gets eased up and and and you know it sucks too because you also see like a lot of these fools just bend in the kneed to trump and like getting rid of, like,

Yeah.

And you asked about, you know, the BLM movement too, and I think it's the same thing with the me too movement. A lot of things start off with a genuine purpose, but then the tail end becomes an industry. It's based upon generating capital.

Yeah, I think the me too thing got pretty out of hand quick. It was like, yeah, fucking Harvey Weinstein's a fucking steaming pile of dog shit. And this is something that obviously happens and it should be addressed. But if someone hits on you, that doesn't mean that they sexually like, it's just like it shit, Like I think I think I don't remember all the details of his ease thing, but I think he flirted with someone and it didn't go well, and like he I think he

Yeah, I mean to if you really want to have a mind fuck, the person who leads the Creating Evidence Lab, which is an online workshop that teaches you how to basically extract a confession from somebody, is Harvey Weinstein's defense attorney.

What.

Yeah, So it's like it's it's like a black Mirror episode, Like this shit is really this shit's really full circle.

What is your opinion on a guy like Joe Rogan?

I like him, Yeah, I mean, obviously I disagree with some of the things he said, but I think that as a podcaster, what he's been able to achieve in some of the conversations that I've I've seen him have before, I think he does a great job. I mean, especially if you think about, like the fact that when he came onto the scene, you know, podcasting wasn't what it was today, and so I almost feel like he kind

You know what I mean. But you know, I feel like you're gonna end up on that show.

I hope so, bro.

But at the same time, like, but then when you go on there, when you go on there, they're gonna be like because now you know, obviously Joe Rogan's a Nazi, you know, so.

Yeah, they're gonna be you know.

And I think with Rogan is like I always just appreciate the fact that like he just I've learned about like archaeology on his podcast and I never would have or fucking self sustained farming or just like the most random shit, it's tight. And when it comes to like political shit, like he'll have like I remember there was

You're not going to see shit like that elsewhere.

And I think it also speaks to like people's attention attention span, even though the social media algorithm would tell you that people have like a short attention span. People are still watching three and a half hour podcast for sure. Foples are still going to watch this whole podcast and they're gonna like it.

You know, what are your thoughts on? Uh, you were on the ground for January sixth. I was nearby nearby. Oh you weren't there, Okay, okay, okay, yeah, okay, so you weren't there, that's right.

I was there for like three different pump fakes where they said like we're gonna take the Capitol and they would get close and be like not today.

So I want to know your thoughts because I thought it was I thought that with the j sixers, I guess I think that there was probably some people who probably should have been pardoned who walked into a building, and then I think there were people who deservingly attacked Capitol police officers. Yeah, there was like this blanket party where I was like, I don't know if you should have partnered all of them, like maybe half like, because

I hate to be that guy, but like, dude, the people who should be in jail for January sixth is like Trump, if you really want to start locking people up for that, it's the people who told these these masses that the election was stolen and that they had to take their country back. Yeah.

I think too, is they. I think that that Trump knew it wasn't stolen. That's the problem. If Trump truly believed the election was stolen, then okay, But I don't think he truly believed the election was stolen. I think it's just like Rudy Giuliotti, by the way, he's a piece of shit, God Jesus, the most cringiest. I feel like, yeah, out of everybody from the last eight years, I should just love to see him fucking just eat shit.

Fuck Rudy Giuliani. Yeah, especially because he was like a nine to eleven hero and he had.

To fucked around and do this such a piece of shit, dude.

Yeah, but honestly, like if you look at some of their prison sentences, some of them were just.

Outrageous, outrageous and like some people like I think we're just being held without a court date all this time, and it's like, well, if this teacher like stumbled into the as long there were people who showed up with zip ties like attacked officers, that guy should be in jail for sure. He should never you know, one hundred percent. What are your thoughts on because you you have covered the Proud Boys. I know, the Proud Boys leader in Rique what's his last Enrique Tarrio, he just got pardoned.

Yeah, I mean I'm close with a lot of people who got pardoned. Yeah, I mean they probably don't like me now because of the HBO documentary. Unfortunately, the way I was made to posture in that film burned a lot of bridges with the conservatives.

Really yeah, yeah.

They basically made me.

They tried to like posture me into this like misinformation Watchdog, who was like super blue pillar that just existed to like, you know, just a Trump and exposed expose white nationalism. I'm obviously like, I will do that if that's what's happening with the They made me editorialize it so much to where like I'm saying shit at the end on this director's chair monologue that I didn't have a choice a choice in where I'm saying like Enrique Tario couldn't even.

Stomach the fire that he'd fueled, just like pussy as shit like that.

I wonder because from when I get I one time we were in Vegas, me and my boys, and we just happened to be there the night Trump had a he had a fucking rally, And I think we're staying at Treasure Island or some Sure, we're staying some and we happen to be staying where the Proud Boys are staying. Yeah, So I'm playing Roulette and these and I'm like, real, like my boy he's like hey, He's like, I think we're surrounded by Proud boys.

Where they were in Fred Perry's, they were wearing like.

Polo shirts yeah, golden yellow gold yeah right yeah, And I was like, oh shit, but like what, like I want to say, only one of the dudes at the roulette table with us was actually white.

Yeah, and if.

Would you consider the Proud Boys. I'm not saying that I agree with anything they do because I think they're like more of like a pro masculinity group. But would you consider them a white supremacist group, because that is the Yeah, No, not at all.

They're like a nationalist group, like a nationalist drinking club. They're kind of like soccer hooligans, you know what I mean, they just get fucked up together and like they yell about sports and also politics.

Right, Yeah, because I remember because one of the guys who started the Proud Boys is one of the founders of Vice.

Yeah, Gavin mckinnis. I think that he has some white supremacist tendencies.

Yeah, he because he would dress like fucking you just see that motherfucker. Oh, he definitely he's leaning into that shit.

He definitely fucks with Hitler. But I mean a lot of them, I feel like they support nationalist governments. But there's also been nationalist governments like Pinochette Pinochet and Chile. He wasn't white, right, you know, but he was still a dictator. There's been plenty of brown fascists.

Yeah, I think what people you know, there's this like when we talked a little bit earlier about like kind of like the intersection of like Biden or not Biden, of Bernie and Trump. Yeah, and like I guess the quote unquote like America first approach. Yeah, and it's like it's it's it's not necessary. It's just it's not uh, it's not if it's if Bernie says it is not white supremacy. Yeah, but they align even if it's on like twenty percent of that.

I mean, some of the Proud Boys are like urbanized, like trendy people. I remember in twenty seventeen, I was at a bar in New York City called Mehnada, which was like this gay bar, and all the gay Proud Boys had their annual meeting there.

So I walk up in there.

It'saw all these like trendy gay dudes with like earrings and shit, and they're wearing the Fred Perry yellow and black polos and Maga hats, talking about you know, these gay dudes talking about how you know Trump's gonna help the gaze out because they're like gay people who don't like trans people, so they're just like raging about trans people. So I'm in there right, I'm kicking it. Was an accident, right, I'm just getting to drink. Like, they don't recognize me.

I look at him. I'm like, are you a gay proud boy? And he was like, what the fuck? I'm not one of those motherfuckers. And I was like, oh, my bad dog. Yeah, I was joking around. He's like, you think I'm part of that.

White supremacist shit. You think I'm gay too. I was like, no, I'm just joking. He was like, fuck you hoe me my back inside, and that she was. So I still think about that all the time.

Is there anything you're are you? Are you plotting on trying to maybe cover like any of these part and folks to just see what you know. I'm so over I know you've said that in the documentary.

You're over this shit, dude. It's not that interesting.

That's the thing is, Like I'm on this platform talking about or Kelly because I worked on it for so long and I think it has some level of like relevance, and so does January sixth. But I've been like in

I don't know if you've done it yet because you've done so much, but I think the I think there has to be the story of like the reservations across the country.

Yeah, yeah, I've done a little bit.

But like when I was that was the best thing about living in Arizona Navajo. I got super tapped in with the natives. Yeah, shout out talking about Homie Kenneth.

Yeah, shouts of the natives. Man, And like it's kind of crazy, Like, you know, there's like a real fucking like if you drive through the res houses are they're fucking living on, Like it's kind of crazy how a lot of these houses are constructed. Yeah, trailer parks. There's a lot of drug use, there's a lot of alcoholism, and it's like I just feel like, you know, that's a very interesting story that needs to be told.

Also, the difference is between the different reservations in Arizona. Like if you go to Cells, which is in the Tahona Odom Nation west of Tucson, that place looks like it's in the Third World country. I mean, it is broken down. You go somewhere like window Rock, which is in the Four Corners area in the Navajo Reservation, and you're like, damn, they got their shit together right for sure. And it shows how the Bureau of Indian Affairs kind

Most Oh.

It's called Borders. We're still like getting the pilot done, but I play a journalist in it.

And it's sick.

It's about it's sort of about the tahonah Odem Reservation on the border. So it has to do with the idea of like multiple borders in one state. There's cartel characters. We got Danny Trejo's son Gilbert on that bitch. We got hell of different shit. I'm excited and so you're producing that to pitch it essentially, Yeah, yeah, I think for a TV show, I'd rather pitch it as opposed

Please pick this up.

It's not a bad idea. Man. Is there anything that you have besides the Chatz thing that, because of safety or because you just think it wasn't in good taste, ended up being something you decided not to release. Yeah.

After the George Floyd riots, I went back to the Target and the kmart that got looted the next morning and did like a consumer research study about all the items that didn't get looted, you know. So it was like, this is a message to Target corporate, like there are certain items that you have that are so undesirable that even when it's open season, that's going to be left on the racks. And it was like Honica sweaters, and like certain game systems that like fools just would not steal.

What game systems would they stay?

I don't know that well, they wanted the PlayStations in the Xbox, but it was like some of the off brand VR headsets were just left right, We're just gonna leave those. Yeah, and even like beats by Dre they had some left right there, and I was like, damn. So I feel like it was important market research. And so it was called what they Didn't Loot and it was just like a you know, an item by item analysis. But then I sent it to my boss and he's like, this is a trespassing charge and I was.

Like, you still keep in contact with with Kelly?

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean because you you got pretty emotional. Well, I would say you got emotional in the movie at a certain point. I don't want to spoil the movie, but obviously, being you know, around somebody for so long, you guys become friends, you know, yeah, how often you guys talk? And what does he think about the movie?

He loves the movie, Yeah, which is relatively surprising.

Yeah, because he's not. I mean, I think you end up kind of I watched that movie and I ended up like like feeling for the guy.

The movie is not anti Kelly, it's not. It's also not about converting someone to becoming a liberal. No, it's just a study of family and the intersection of politics between generations with an American family that's sort of splintered by it.

Yeah, he likes it.

Only like I was hoping and I'm still hoping that there's kind of a breakthrough that happens after he sees it.

You know.

I like to think that the movie maybe is the missing piece and all of this. But he's seen it several times. He came to two different tour dates on the Channel five tour last summer, and then he also came to the premiere in Huntington Beach two and a half weeks ago, and each.

Time he was kind of like hell yeah, like sick. So it's a bit confusing.

I thought what I actually loved about was that he left you a voicemail when you were going through your shit. Yeah, and you play that voicemail and it was like, damn, Like this dude, he's a good dude. Yeah, Like he's not a bad guy.

Like, and he's capable of giving really good advice when it matters.

Yeah, And like he's obviously he's obviously a smart guy, because you don't become a lawyer and not be it. And I mean, I would say they aren't fucking idiots or lawyers. But it's like this guy had like a like when you were showing some of his like family footage with like all the animals they owned, and shit, I was like, damn, this dude really had the American dream, like fucking figure it out for real.

And that's kind of one of the subtexts of the film too, is like he did achieve the American dream, and what the American dream is on paper is literally shifting classes, being able to go from a working class.

Because he grew up in like I said, trailer trailer park.

And boom, dude, imagine that twenty years later, after hard work and dedication, you go to Pepperdine for law and you're in Laguna Hills living like Zoe one oh one, and then boom, all of a sudden, it goes away and the American Dream breaks in front of your eyes. And especially if you're conditioned by the Reagan era with that like hyper positivity Bootstrafts mentality, that is like it might as well be the fabric of space time warping when that happens.

Yeah, no, it's crazy, man. It's such a good movie, dude, people, and you know you can ran.

It for five bucks, five dollars and fifty five cents.

Uh yeah, I think I think everyone should check it out. I feel like, especially if you're like a fucking hardcore lefty.

Yeah, because the thing is like a lot of a lot of hardcore a lot of hardcore lefties.

They want to pretend like these people don't exist.

Or they're not like people, like they're not like hey, like just be like, yes, they're crazy. They're holding the signs and they're on the they're screaming at you outside. But what is like that's a person at the end of the day in a backstory.

A huge backstory, And in a way, this movie is kind of for them to say, Hey, if you do want a revolution, if you want a progressive future, you have to figure out how to incorporate the millions and millions of people like Kelly who have valid economic grievances, who were hypnotized by political media and are now working for the enemy as they see it. Right, you can't just have a utopian future without figuring out a path to stability and mental mental strength and solitude for these people.

It's like a head case. I'm just saying no for sure.

No, no, I think And then I think that's the other thing too, man is I just think like what you do is you have context and nuanced to just so many divisive issues. And I feel like, you know, if somebody watched, like you know, any of your coverage that you've had over the years, Bro, it's like it's like, Yo, there's not it's not. We're all in the gray area and we act like it's black or white.

Yeah, I think there's more people in that zone than you like to think.

So would you do a podcast?

I'm thinking about it, bro, I'm thinking about it. But the thing that scares me about.

A podcast is like you look at dudes like Stevo who have had crazy lives, but they've done a million podcasts. At some point you've told every story and the lore kind of goes away, at least for somebody like me that has a sort of like in field mystique to myself.

Now that's fair, Yeah, no, that's fair. I think I think you're not overexposed personally, right.

I don't want to tell people and I'm also like, I'm kind of smart, but I'm more of a listener than a talker, Like you've been in the radio, like you know what you're doing. Not saying I'm a bad podcaster, but I don't know if I have a take for everything.

Yeah, and I do feel like what you do is like a version of I mean, it's all content, right, podcasts, the content of v logs, content, a mini documentaries, content Like, So I think what you do, man, is I think unless you think you're doing a podcast will add to like the overall like mission of journalism. Yeah, then you know, just double down on the ship you're doing.

Yeah.

One thing that I would do is like a hybrid between I guess Channel five and software Underbelly. I want to get an ambulance, buy an ambulance and kind of gut the back and turn it into a mobile studio where I can talk to just like random people, not just like.

I'm gonna pull up the Yeah, I'm gonna pull up wherever sweet yeah right, kid row. It could be fucking yeah, the White Lives Matter in Huntington Beach. It could be anything.

So I would do a podcast with like random people and sometimes famous people. But not just famous people, right, you know because famous.

Well, you're the only person I think that's interviewed to Yeat.

Actually Complex got him, which was very unfortunate, but they didn't do it.

Like yeah, but I felt like, did you have like the first interview with Yeat?

Yeah?

Well actually our Generation Music got him before, but I had early. They were pretty early.

Yeah, I had the first post blow up interview.

Yeah. Year, He's I I can't wait for hip because I feel like he EA's a pretty interesting guy. Heard he owns a ton of guns. He's from Portland.

Yeah, Heat's awesome, Like he's like, uh yeah, I just I want to know more about him.

But he's so fucking was there.

Like yeah right, and so like I want to be somewhere in between that and Steve O and Steve O'shit's cool.

It's I'm not hating on Steve.

Yeah, it's cool.

Just saying everyone knows every story now almost for she's done a thousand podcasts.

Is there anything man for you that you just want to kind of like like, Okay, let's say you had to kind of you know, twenty years from now, man, what do you do you what would you say you would want your legacy to be man, hey, man, just never fold.

Yeah, just yeah, it's basically it never fold. Just hope the war. I hope we're still fighting.

Yeah yeah, not the war in God's obviously no no no, but just the.

War message to myself in twenty years. I hope that we're still on top, we're still doing our shit. I hope we never compromise. I hope we never sell out. I hope we never let somebody control us. I hope we never let a bureaucratic, corporate media establishment own a single percent in Channel five.

And I hope that the media establishment is dead and gone.

I think it's happening.

Yeah, I think it.

I think slowly but surely, and you know, I think it has to. Man. I just feel like, you know, CNN and all these fucks, they're all full of shit.

Bro, they're full of shit.

But the problem is, you know's maybe more full of shit clickbait reactionary podcasters.

Oh you know what I mean.

So that's the thing is you're taking one swamp and you're kind of starting a new.

And it's a bigger swamp that the entry level was zero, and you can let anybody can turn a camera on. No, for sure, it's it's fucking crazy. It's crazy.

CNN has to get caught in a lie, you know what I'm saying.

I think they've been caught in a few. I don't understand why Rogan never sued them for the They made his skin yellow, and that whole ivermectin thing was just crazy.

They made his skin yellow when they put him on TV.

Yes, they live in Mexico. They made him look like he was sick when he did his It was fucking crazy.

Damn bro, that's whack.

Yeah, no, I just they did that for real.

Yes, that's unbelievable.

But it's in saying and I'm like he always said, he was like, you know, I could sue him, but I just this is not worth it. I'm like, yeah, you could sue, sue somebody for putting a tent on you because they were trying to make it that. I think the whole angle of the.

Story was he was sick. He's getting jaundice from ivermactin. Yeah, like that's the vibe, right, Like his skin is turning yellow, like he's going in septic shop.

I guess so, man, But yeah, I think I think, man, you're doing good work, bro keep it up, and you know, I look forward to seeing you guys expand with the different correspondence you have all over the world. Any any areas you're looking, I would love to see, like somebody maybe in Africa like.

There, I had a homegirl in the UH in the Democratic Republic of Congo that I.

Would say Congo specifically.

But our policy is if you're going to cover something, you have to be from that area.

At least you know what I'm saying. I mean, that's the thing. Though it's also dangerous, like covering those fucking minds in Congo are crazy. Yeah.

Well, if you're an African person who wants to work for Channel five, tap it and you're not scared by emails Andrew at Channel five dot news.

There it is, my guy. I appreciate you coming through. Go get the movie.

Dear Kelly to www dot Dear kellyfilm dot com five dollars fifty five cents rental.

It is amazing. Buy it for fifteen dollars if you want to. Yeah, support you gotta support this guy's got lawyer fees.

Support me. I need new ties.

Shout to pop Eye, Shout out to pop Eye Man you know, you know loves this tie Kelly Lefty gunplay interview coming soon.

Oh you interviewed Lefty? Yeah? How how off the shits was he at the time he was doing He's a good friend of mine.

He was doing good.

Yeah, I know he's doing Oh he's the best. Yeah, he might be the most. I mean since listen. I don't want to compare him to krypt Mac because he would hate that, But since Krip Mac, I'm not sure we've had a more entertaining personality hit. These internets agreed.

Shout out to Lefty, shout out to Bootleg keV, shout out to Phoenix, shout out to Kelly, shout out to Bill Joyner.

I hope you dropped Bill Joying to drop the fuck it soap bro boom my guy appreciate you rather Yeah,