#398 - Kai Cao of DesignerCon

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Let's get to the interview, all.

Right, man, Bootleg cap Podcast special guests here, returning guests. It is Designer Con season.

It is.

We got the homie Kevin from three D Retro and Designer Con in the building.

Wellkome man, thank you for having me again. It's the time. Yeah, this year, big year. How many years in a row? Is this now? This is our eighteenth theater. We're finally so now we can buy cigarettes, yes, yes, yes.

And drinking somewhere in the world some places in the world can drink alcohol and do other things yes yes, yeah, sure yo, So this year too, man like for people who don't know. If you guys didn't see, we had Kevin on the show last year. Designer con is a really dope convention that is in Orange County every year. Well not every year, right, It's been in different places.

It's been different places. For the first thirteen years it was in Pasadena, but OC's kind of the home now the home now.

Yeah, So it's how would you describe what Designer kan is. You kind of got to walk through it to really get a feel for it. But if you had to describe it.

Well, if I had to describe it, it's like it's like a toy convention, but with emphasis on the art and artists. So it's a lot of individual artists having independent toys. But then you get the bigger companies that has more of a limited edition feel to it. But it's not like mass produced, not like Mattel or Hasbro.

They're not there.

It's guy's like overseas like Meticom, Toy PopMart that makes we call it mass produced, but the tech not to US standards. They're more limited edition runs. What they do is once they make something, once it's sold out, gonna gone forever.

It's gone forever. Yeah, I look back. Yeah, so like you could walk around.

There's different toys, there's different artists selling like prints and like, uh, there's collaborations between artists and toys, and it's.

It's just it's like dope. Especially.

I feel like if you got kids, uh, you also could be a grown up because I enjoyed myself. But I took my son who was eight years old, and he just loved it. I mean I spent a bunch of money on ship that he didn't understand what he was buying. We were on the look for squish mellows everywhere.

See you might not. You probably didn't find that.

No we didn't, but no, actually there was some one one random booth had squish mellows.

So it's not a lot of that, right, but it's like I feel like you can take your kids there and then inspires them. There's a lot of things that they will open their eyes cool and just cool sets.

Like there was like some guy in jail I think there was yet, Yeah, it was it was super cool.

People are creative for sure, they're artists. They have to know they they think outside of box.

For their booth, you know.

You every year you guys do limited edition Bear Bricks for Designer con only.

Yes, it's correct, right, partner of with different artists every year.

Yeah, Like last year, I think I got like the limited edition box that was the designer branding. I still have that this year. Talk about some of the because I last year the guy I always forget his name, the Obey guy, I have.

The Bear Shepherd fairry. This year we got Bobby Hundreds. We got Bobby Hundreds.

Who is who was a part of like the Bare Brick exclusives this year, so we have Shephard coming back.

He's doing the one thousand percent of the ones that we released last year, so it's a thousand percent which is a bigger version. And then he's we're also doing one that it's called the Make Art Not War Design, which he posted earlier this year. I think, without getting political, I feel like this is the right time.

For sure for that message. I agree, So I think we feel like we should release this this year.

So we're doing that. And then the artists, we have Bobby hundreds to hundreds, Ben hundreds. They are celebrating their twentieth anniversary this year. So we came together a few years ago knowing the fact that it's twenty years this year, they have never done a bear brick. We kind of help collaborate, you know, facilitate that and to celebrate the twentieth anniversary. So we'll have a special signing with them at the show and the release will be a Designer con.

Not him.

You will go to one of his concerts, like in the early especially early days when he was younger, you could hear the voice without the auto tune was beautiful. He did suffered a little bit of a vocal things straight maybe seven years.

Ago being You've recovered.

So it is his twentieth anniversary as a singer songwriter coming out.

This year as well, so he has a world tour.

Because we knew that we kind of want to celebrate with a special collab. We went to Meticom saying because they had a US stop in the US earlier this year, we wanted to come out at that time with the smaller one and then do the bigger one at Designer Can. Unfortunately, with manufacturing, shit happen should happen, so we decided to move it all to Designer Can. He just wrapped up

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you know for people who if they let's say, they're like I want to go and I'm want to get some of these limitedition things.

Now, I went last year and I messed up.

I went on Sunday, so a lot of the stuff I wanted to buy was just gone Friday.

Friday Friday is the play. So Friday is well, how limited?

Like for example, let's say these two how limited are these?

Uh?

I'm not supposed to say a number, but under a thousand?

Okay, so you got to get there for.

That size under a thousand sometimes on the bigger versions, under is under five hundred pieces have you?

Because I feel like bear brig have kind of like became like this iconic. I feel like it's an entry point for a lot of people into art and the toys. Like a lot of people who are kind of like generic street where guys who wear Supreme and whatever whatever you you might go to their house and they got bear bricks on the side of their TVs.

It's synonymous.

It feels very like much like an entry point for a lot of people to get into art, to get into the toy game. For you, like you've obviously you guys had three d retro carry a bunch of dope bear bricks. You guys just moved to Vegas from La Yes? Is there like there's bootleg bear bricks?

Right? Yes? So how do you tell, like if it can you tell if it's a fake bear brick or not?

I can tell if I have it in my hand. In terms of the finish, you know how the figures made.

Because that's the thing now yea, yeah, like there's bootleg toys. I didn't know this.

Like recently, I was on Amazon and my son, no, this will happen. My son sent me is Christmas Liss like maybe three weeks ago, and he sent me everything on Amazon, and he sent me a fake cause toy on Amazon, and I was like, they're selling a twenty dollars couse toy on Amazon, Like, what the fuck is going on?

Unfortunately, cause there's a lot of blue leg on that. Especially once you get it, you'll see it's completely different the original stuff or the real stuff that he sells now with medical So on the bottom of these guys, there's a sticker, so that is the NFC authentication, So if you have your phone or anything like that, you scan it, you'll tell you it's an authentic product on Medicon So they started doing that.

One to come back. So you gotta look out for the sticker.

You gotta look out for. But another thing is it's just a finish overall. A lot of these are super.

Smooth, Like I couldn't imagine somebody pulling off like a legit like this is a very high level toy.

Right, it's not easy to This is crazy to duplicate, right, so they don't do everything they do super popular or simple designs or just a blank one.

What is your in your opinion, at all the bare bricks, what's like the one everyone has?

What's the most popular, what's the one everybody has?

What's the most what's like what's the most like generic bare brick? Like you was like, ah, like, it's like easy to get that. Most people have.

I will say a licensed character like a like a Mickey or on those type of snoopy, you know, those type of character ones or superheroes like Batman, Superman.

Those those are.

On the basic like somebody that just got into this, right or what have right? Like I think most of us love playing action figures growing up. So for us, those ips are.

The first one you gravitate to it.

Right, So when you look at a Baar brick, and if you see an American IP, most Americans will go towards that, like Batman, Superman.

What about what's the holy Grail? What's the two or three holy grail ones? I'm sure you probably have one.

I think the holy I don't have the Holy Grail considered by a lot of people. There's a good piece, right, you have to be a VIP. Ben Baller has one, but you have to be a VIP on the list. They make like a super limited amount. It was only for Gucci's Gucci store.

And what is that if on the on the on the aftermarket six digits? What's the most expensive because we talked about your toy collection last time, Yeah, it's pretty extensive.

What is your like, Holy grailed, bare brick at your crib. I have a couple of.

Causes that's worth it about twenty twenty five each, damn you know, so depending the market, Well, the market was great, it was here, so right now it's probably that price.

It's crazy too because like I see you know, I'm like, I have an addictive personality, which is why I haven't diving in too much into the toy game because I am in I like, I'm into comics and I'm into sports, and I'm like the perfect mark to just eventually turn into DJ Amen.

Oh Amen, he's a fucking psacho path a little bit.

He's Uh, it's crazy.

It collects everything at this point.

And I wonder for you though, like, uh, you know if anybody, I mean, you've you've kind of seen it, Like where do most people kind of start their toy collection, like it like based on because you're on the retail side too, so you see a lot of toys. I'm sure you'll see somebody come in for the first time and then two years later you're like, man, we're seeing you every week.

There's for us, the entry level will be the blind box, the little mystery boxes like when you're a kid, the booster pack of course, so a lot of the brands do that, like Bay Breaks, the smaller version. They come in blind boxes you can buy for seven dollars.

You never know what you're gonna get. Number one you'll get.

There's like plenty of design choos from. So that's like the entry level drug I call it. You get addicted to opening.

It's almost like the cards, right, the bastall cards, because you crack a pack and you're like, shit, I gotta and.

Then if you get the super rare one, it's worth a lot of money, super red oh you get keep going, right, So that's that's for me. That's what I see a lot of entry level people the blind boxes, and then once they get into it. They're like they find artists that they like. They gravitates to whatever artists are, from Cause to Steven Harrington to you know all these wrong English gear basement, all these guys part of our world.

Everybody wants to collect costs.

So a lot of people go from friving blind boxes and go like, oh, my first cos piece, you know, a couple of hundred bucks. And we sell them at the store too, because we have some of our personal question nothing for wholesale.

They eat the new wholesale.

Then we get a couple of extra pieces and we sell it to our store VIPs. But they get addicted to that once they have their first piece. Oh I want to second piece. I want a third one, you know. So that's how you grow, right and then once you get there, you're like, once you get past Cause, then you're gonna go like what else is there? You want to kind of mix different things. Then that's when you get too far. You're like, I have a lot of shit. At that point, I.

Was gonna say, there's like another subculture of toys that is. I feel like it's kind of somewhat very separate and different from this, and that's collecting wrestling figurines.

Uh yeah, wrestling fingerings and bootleg wrestling figurings.

Oh, it was like bootleg.

Yeah, cause like my son, we have probably no shit like five hundred wrestling toys from the last like I don't know, twelve years or so. I don't know what kind of condition they're and they're in his drawers. But I always told him, don't ever get rid of your toys. Give them to me, like my kids. My kid's eighteen now, for the record, so he's got all these fucking I'm like, never get rid of them, don't ever give them away. I just you know, it's maybe it's like a connection

I'm gonna put my money. I'm feeling good about.

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Yeah, we have two that just came in recently to the store. Uh I forgot. I'm not at wrestling, but people wanted people want. Yeah, it was. There's a red he's wearing red pans and a blue pants, red plant. Cody Cody Rroads American Nightmare.

There was two wrestlers.

They've done WWE, so they have done four hundred percent, not necessarily a thousand percents.

So tell me about this Jordan one that's going to be because you guys just dropped the video.

Today, just dropped the video. So there's a Jordan Bear brick Fire. This is the last shot nineteen ninety a NBA Finals. Metacom is releasing that overseas only, so this technically not for US market, but for Designer Con. They're bringing a super limited amount. They got permission from Upper

So the thing with that one is it's going to be at design of come before it releases overseas. Yes, so how much more? Like what's the like when is it the general release overseas?

Again, there's it says December on their website, but I think they mean US. I from what I was told, it was supposed to go release from here and then Japan stores, Singapore and Macau and that's it.

So that's dope. Yeah, overall?

How many pieces? It is a limited addition. I remember the first one that came out was the rookie year was gold. That one sold out instantly and now it's worth like three four thousand Jesus so for the bigger size wow.

Yeah, so for us, you know, it's a big deal to get this. Yeah, I was surprised. And this one was like it's a.

Chrome, right, it's silver cilver Yeah, silver chrome with a red Chicago bulls jersey. It's clean, it has a fourteen on the feet. The Jordan has a Jordan logo too.

If it was the last shot, it was probably yeah the fourteen Yeah, yeah, So I wonder because during the pandemic, hard assets like toys like rolexes, like basketball.

Cards they shot through the roof.

Yeah, they shot now a lot of that stuff. I'm not sure about the toy market, but I know a lot of like the sports cards market and the watch market is cooled off a little bit. Has the resale market on the toy game chilled out a bit in terms of where.

It was, Yeah, definitely in terms of let's say, taking the collectible business fair bricks, they were at one point super hard to get everybody wanted price.

Shot up through the roof in the pandemic.

Now that's kind of just like everything else has kind of gone down. That's the reason why you know, you notice I haven't mentioned on Firepack because you guys do it every year, right, We're not doing it this year due to the market conditions.

That's what Medicon call it, market conditions, because usually you guys have the designer on the box.

Yes, So due to the market conditions, they decided not to do the fire pack this year. They want to focus on these collaborations anniversaries just so that we can get these out because they don't want to make too many. First of all, a lot of these exclusives of twentieth anniversary ones were making super limited amount, and then they're going to the artists and the brand, right, the hundreds will have some for sale. JJ will have some for

I was going to say, for you, how much of your toy collecting is investing for later?

How much is it?

Dj Amen or I like to call dj Amn because he's our friend. If you all don't know, go follow him dj Men three thousand. He is a psychopath. All his money goes to toys.

But for you, are you?

Are you the kind of guy who's like, I'm gonna buy this toy because in twenty years from now I might be able to cash out and retire.

I'm a fifty to fifty okay, So for me, like, let's let's for example, let's say that Jordan Peace in my head and heart, I already won five because I know that's gonna be worth a lot, right, right, So do I want to do I want to get fired, of course, because I want to have one on display and have four sealed. Right, That's what I want to do. So in my head, a lot of my stuff are if it's cool and it's worth something that I can

That's when you'll buy. You'll be like, you know what, almost like Wonder Rock. Want to stock with the Sneaks.

Which I do with the Sneakers too, Like I get minimum two pairs of each if I can minimum, you know, like the Kobe Grinches, the Reversit.

I just gotta pay for my son.

I didn't even get one because I missed out on that. So I'm hoping I get there's a restock coming this weekend. Well the actual release is this weekend, Okay, so I'm gonna hope I get at least two pairs, you know, but a lot of the stuff, like there's elevens even though nobody wanted them this.

Year d MT.

Guess what in five years, three years, they're gonna go up. Of course, I got two pairs. You know, I don't I like them too. Well, they were hard to get when they first dropped. Are you about the grate fools that just dropped with the Gold Jordan.

The DMP Defining Moments pay They're part of that pack. Yeah, so I don't know why people are like I've been. You know what's funny is like.

I just threw a few pairs up on stock X just because like my man cave is a mess where I'm just like, fuck, dude, I haven't worn these shoes I had for four years. Like, but there was a few shoes that I bought that were sitting that Like I got those all red threes that came out four years ago and I got them for like eighty bucks on clearance, and now they're going for like three fifty four hundred, and I'm like, these are like I think I don't know if I posted those or not, but

I'm like, damn, these threes, these threes, these three.

Some of the fours that I have, Like I have these pony hair all black premium fours that like nobody wanted when they dropped, and I'm like, damn, Like it's probably the same thing with toys two.

Well a little bit, yeah, a little bit. I think a lot of times is artists too for what we're now. Yeah, so at a certain point, if an artist right now is not well known, but his stuff is relatively cheap and limited, you.

Buy that might because you're kind of investing in the artists.

Yeah, just like cause right years ago he's not what he is now, So if you had older pieces, it's worth a lot more.

So it is kind of like that.

But like like like you said about Jordan's uh, you know, the certain models are always good, doesn't matter what kind of color they put. Eventually, when people don't want them, a couple of years later, they want them because they're done right. They're just a limited edition. It's a limited edition. It's a limited edition. Part of our nature. This nature. Same thing. If you don't get this bear broke now, so I can get them next week.

Or next year. But once they're sold out, then you got to pay.

Second, do you remember those animal print threes that came out They had like all the animal hair on.

Three years ago?

Yeah, I have those fucking fire When they dropped, they were so easy to get.

Now they're going for bread yeah, and there's a fire. I'm like nobody with these when they they were so bad. I love those. Yeah, those were great.

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Make the drive. Look, I made the drive. I moved to Vegas, so I was gonna.

Say, you guys for people who don't know you guys are also behind the store three D Retro, which was.

Based in kind of Bourbon Glende area, Burban Glende there for ten years.

Just move to Vegas. Just moved to Vegas this summer. Is it better? Yes?

I feel like because you guys were in a location where I don't feel like a lot of people knew you were there in terms of like generic generator traffic wise, right, I feel like because I know where you guys are in Vegas. So you guys must get just a lot more foot traffic.

Yeah, a lot more exposure now where we were because we owned the land in the building, so we put.

Murals and all that stuff. Oh yeah, it was sick.

It's beautiful. But the thing is La is so big, like it's travel from one point to another point to go to Glendale.

On the track.

If someone lives in Gardena or something, they don't want to They don't want to go at all.

So what I found in Vegas is every from one point to another, it's within thirty minutes.

No matter, and there was no traffic and everybody you're you can now become a destination spot for when people come in from from where.

Wherever they're at?

Yeah, where were we at? Have you already experienced at where? Like people are like, yo, I came into town, I got to come back.

We just posted it.

Somebody said they came to Vegas there's a first stop because they noticed that we're there and be before when they were in La they can't make it, so now they go there.

More people go to Vegas in LA. I feel like you know Las, they go to Disneyland and.

How many Disneyland trips you take per year exactly. So Vegas a lot of people take it for leisure and work. There's a lot of convention on, a lot of stuff going on in Vegas.

To business has been booming.

It's been great, it's been doing well. So you know, there might be a I don't know if I should say it, but s designer com will be in Vegas next year too.

Wow.

Yeah, so this is our last year, and so if you've never been and you're in LA, you should go to designerclon dot com. Grab your tickets, get the VIP that's still available for Friday night, grab the Jordan if you can. I'm sure to sell out. There's a lot of ton of exclusives, uh, special guests, and then Saturday we have signings, just a bunch of cool stuff. Probably will see you there, the people get to see you.

Hey listen, I am excited because now I have an excuse to go to Vegas. Any excuse to go to Vegas a good excuse in Vegas.

I already have things planned. Oh, it's gonna be crazy. I'm sure. Yo.

Last question I'm wondering. We talked Earli about your personal collection and what is a toy you'll never sell that you own that just means something to you that you just like, that you love that just I.

Mean, I want to say never, but in terms of like terms of yeah, you get jagged.

Uh.

I think my car.

There's three bark cause I have those three that's I got it for retail like five hundred bucks. Now they're twenty five thousand each, right, So yes, I can't sell it. But then that's something that I don't know if I I could personally pay twenty five grand on a toy. I don't know if I can do that. Yeah, right, so that's probably I won't sell. And then another figure I have was the one that got me into all This was a Stuicy figure that's like a skateboarder. Stucy

That's what kind of got you in.

Yeah, I'm like, this is cool because I'm a big guy. I couldn't fit their clothes, right, I got to buy something. So by the accessories. Yeah, so like that's how I got into it, Like, oh I can buy something and it's a cool little figure and that kind of got me into the rabbit hole of designer toys from kid Robot to Metcalm.

Kid Robot had a wave, man, I remember that that Storre in Vegas too.

Ten years, fifteen years, fifteen glorious years of and then they kind of just you know, it's unfortunate.

You know we are.

We are celebrating the life of Frank Ozick this year at the show. He unfortunately passed away this year. He was the creative director of ki Robot the last few years. Yeah, so like we'll remembering him there. Great panels too. I think Amen's doing something hip hop, like I told him, you know, I would love him to him and Detroit is curating a whole day, so Sunday will be hip hop and art Like what does that mean with each other?

Right?

A lot of artists that comes through our show, like uh murrs Like he was part of a booth last year.

Yeah, and he's got I mean he's had his own comic. I have a signed copy of his comic books ten years ago.

So people in hip hop have done stuff in the collectibles world for sure all the time. I mean, shit Brun the Jewels got some sick toys, the ghost face kill ushit exactly.

So like there was a Rizid.

Toy I want to say last year that was in the Middle. There was like you guys said that Middle. I forget what company it was, but they had the middle big booth and they had all this stuff. It was like Network, Yes, and they had I think it was a Rizid toy. Yeah, I think so it was like a risk kill Bill toy.

They have some. I was like, the fuck out here Friday?

All right, Look, so he's going to have a soul Sunday planning about it. You know, we're celebrating the fifty fifth.

Year of hip hop hip hop. So I hit a mmm, like hey you should we should do something, you know. Uh.

So he's doing that Sunday with a bunch of cool, cool people, artists, musicians together on Sunday sick.

Well listen, go make sure you get your tickets. Make sure you support three D red two if you're in Vegas. Yes, Uh what's g?

I G's three D retros for the Instagram and at Designer cam is Designer call.

Go get your tickets.

Last year in La Man, last year, I appreciate you pulling up man, Thank you for having me. Yes, sir Boom, can we show some love to our family at Hard Dean Man shout out to Hard Dean Man. Look, if you're in Vegas, you gotta pull up. You gotta say, take me to Hard Dean right now.

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