#351 - Marcellus Wiley

What's up, y'all.

It's your boy Marcello's whiley dad dude, Yes, sir, y'all know where I'm at. Check out my boy, Bootleg Cav on this podcast.

It's the Bootleg cav Podcast. Special guests in here, NFL Legend, TV Legend got a great YouTube channel right now, that part Marcellus Wiley is here. Yeah, what do it do, baby, buddy? Good to see you. Oh, thanks for the free drink of course, a hit you're pulling up, man, Yeah, it's crazy because I've been watching you for so long on TV man, like I'm like a hardcore sports just maniac.

Yeah, it's a whole different animal now when you talk about sports media, but not to get that deep into it, I guess to take you back, I was going to be a school teacher and I just kept getting bigger, faster, stronger, end up being a football player. But my heart and my mind has always been locked in and helping others forking road kids because I was that kid growing up, you know, And I didn't think I was special, and I don't think in those terms that you got to

Man's that's all I needed.

But things took different turns and detours, and you know, happy with my journey, you fast forward from there. So I had this moment where I'm getting recruited by all these schools and everybody's.

Oh, where you going. Where'd you go to a high school in Compton? No, I didn't go to studio or where you where're you going to school at because you grew up in Compton.

Yeah, so I'm from Compton, born, raised there till like age five, age six. Then we move off Slawson and Greener Pastors and that turned into South Central. So my family just kept going to other places. My grandmother from wats to Compton, mother Compton South Central. I went to Westchester for two years Saint Monica's. Had to get up super early five in the morning to ride with my mom all the way out to Santa Monica. So I

Remember that.

Yes, So I used to go and he didn't help the narrative because people were like, oh, John Sally, he was kind of like bouncing.

Around right right, right, He wasn't the best.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

And it was a weird place. And I'm not slighting anybody. I'm just telling you how the landscape was and it was real resistance. Like I was telling my boys in the locker room in Jacksonville, Dog, I'm about to go broadcast for what You're supposed to go somewhere and mess with girls and get fat and golf.

And I was like, dog, I can't do that.

So I rolled the dice there and then everything took off from there, working at NFL Network, ESPN, Fox, and I just right now I'm in my Columbia slash broadcasting slash independent world now where you got to roll the dice and bet on yourself because I just see how everything's getting fractured right now.

Yeah. No, I think that that's like if anything, even like me because I traditionally worked and I'm still on the radio every night here in La, but I do it my own way. They contract my show. I'm syndicated, so I don't record my show from wherever I'm at. But it's like I feel like nowadays, if you're going to be a part of media or create content like that, as long as you're good and you're and people are interested, Yeah, like I feel like you kind of kind of do

Yeah, man, And I'm late to the game, even though some people are saying I'm still early, because.

I mean you're relatively early. You look at guys like Pat McAfee was like the guy you know and like the barstool guys, but like you're pretty early.

Yeah, I mean in terms of like platform, like you know, McAfee undertended consequences, like he wanted to work at ESPN, et cetera. Didn't get the opportunity, thank god, right, and so he had to you know, he was forced to do it his way.

Yeah. I wasn't in that position. I'm not in that position now, but.

I just saw the rewards, not only in terms of on the extremes the success like you know him or Joe Rogan or the Paul Brothers like just damn, but more than that, they were doing it their way. They're authentic and from what I was doing, and I see it happening now with Stephen A.

Smith.

When you do network TV, no matter how real you are, it's coming off fake, Like people ain't feel you like you think they're feeling you.

Yeah, and you still can't be one hundred percent honest, right, you have to still be very aware of Yeah, and.

It's not just corporate sponsors and partners. That's the lazy layer. Everyone thinks it's broud of that. Nah, it's because of who you're working with. So you got teammates when you do it that way, and your teammates to protect them from looking bad or losing or them at times. You you got to play this game where we can't go all the way.

I can't.

I can't disagree with you to the fullest like I would in real life. Right, Like, dog, I don't believe that that's bullshit, but you know, on the errors, like.

I can't say that, yeah, political, you got to be for the sake of good TV.

You gotta you know, yeah, you gotta let them represent the other side, even though you're like, there's no other side on this one.

Right.

So I got a little fatigue to that little law of association because if you let stuff live, then your brand, how people really process you becomes this hybrid of who that is, who that is, who you are, and it's like it's just too much gumbo. And I was like, damn, I'm not as authentic in reception as I thought I would be. At this point in my career, like forty eight years old, been doing this twenty almost thirty years, and cats is still not understanding purely what I'm about.

They were like, Oh, I like you from Sports Nation.

You were funny, but then on FS one, y'all were too deep, and I'm like, nog, I'm funny and deep.

What the hell you like? They try to splice you up.

Yeah, So I got a little fatigue that at the Law of Association. I would say the same thing at ESPN, the same exact thing at Fox, and one of them was like whatever, and the other one's like, oh you sellout?

Are you mean?

Are you changed? Are you different?

So I just kind of got tired of being washed away with all that. I was going to say, have you watched because I just saw Stephen a reply to Dan Levatar. I saw that. I saw that and he's cutsing and shit, he's going in. I was like, oh shit, I was like steering a smith is He's unraveled. I love it, but he wouldn't be able to do that on TV.

My point, man, it's a whole different animal. So you know, you kind of get to just be undressed, you know, you get to walk around the house baby boys, right right right right, yeah, most Breakfast, Like that's a podcast to me.

And I was getting jealous when I was at Fox.

No, Lie, I'm watching Jason Whitlock, who left regardless of the content.

I just like that, you know. But he has his own his thing, He's got his him. Yeah. And I was like damn.

And I was watching all these other cats out here, YouTubers moving in my neighborhood, and I'm like, damn, it took me ten years of football, twenty years of broadcast, and these suckers and moving in next door.

I was like, Yo, the game changing for sure?

When am I gonna bet on myself at forty eight or fifty two? When I be a fat and fool again? And then you know it was a hybrid. You know, Fox and I discussed a couple of hybrid situations. But I'm so focused on my family, like to a point where I don't like to travel at all, and people like, damn, you want to go here, go? I don't want to go on the boys strips and all did all that place.

You've already done it all yeah and didn't get caught.

So I'm like, I'm living. I want to be with my kids. I want to help raise them. I don't want to provide for them, right, But I'm distant in that.

Yeah, because I feel like when you're a certain level of success, that era has to kind of happen. Right. It's very rare that you can be super present and still but like, I feel like once you hit that comfort area where you're like, hey, like now I can really apply myself to being at home and yeah, because I did all the tough work twenty years ago, ten years ago, except I built it. You mentioned Jason Whitlock. Huh. He obviously another guy who has had a very long

Nah, Colin Coward and Jason Whitlock started it was.

That's right, it was Colin and him. Yeah, so you came in once Colin went and just focused in on the radio rast TV. What was it like working with him? Because he has a lot of very interesting opinions. A lot of people say he's kind of like Uncle Ruckus.

The memes I've seen the memes man, you know, like he's seen him too.

Wilock is Whitlock. One thing about him.

You can say whatever he is about what he believes and what he says.

And that's what I like. Now, that doesn't mean he lives out all of that.

I'm saying.

His opinion is gonna be unwavering unless challenged by something greater.

And I love that.

I don't care how you get up to the top of your mountain, man, there's so many different paths. I'm not here to judge in that respect, but be you. That's what I love the most about him. Now, what's tough for being with Wilock is he's always gonna throw some extra hot sauce on no matter what he says. It could be the most simple of takes. He's gonna put some spice on it. And at times I feel that's unnecessary, but that's how he serves it. So you got to either eat it or you're gonna be mad

Over the crib.

He was like, Yo, your contract up, you need to come over here. Got this family style show. We're gonna do kind of like the Cosby Show for sports and you know, you're such a great father and what you represent, You're such a good dude. And he was like, I could let you have the platform.

To do that.

Now I'm coming off Sports Nation, which was which was great shot Michelle Beadle.

Shout out Michelle Beatle, Max Kellerman, Christ Thompson. There's a great show man, Kerry Champion, LZ Grandison. And that was part of the point. I could name too many damn co hosts. So here I go again. I'm going this way. I'm going this way. I got so many teammates, couldn't build up like brand chemistry. But I loved it all. I loved the experience. And you know, our show was light hearted.

Praying it out. It great. It was a great show.

Oh yeah, so we had a ball. But then he started talking to me about this. I was like, it'd be probably good right now to change it up, so I'll go over And loved my experience over there to the fullest.

Only two things that really.

Change maybe three things that changed my whole complexion of how that experience was going was one the pandemic when the pandemic hit. You know, everybody got in they feelings, everybody starts separat separating, getting polarized.

And even more than before, more than before.

Right, So I'm like, damn, I'm just trying to take care of the kids, make sure they ain't on the iPod. And I passed twenty five hours a day, you know, way too much. And that was part one. Part two was Whitlock left, you know, kind of in the middle of the night, even though I had heads up, I knew people that knew his situation a little disturbed.

He didn't tell me straight up because then if he convinced you to come over right, right.

So if anything is percolating, you're supposed to let me know. Max Killerman did that with first take day one. He was like, hey, dog, what you think I'm thinking this. Let's talk through it. Not like I got the overall decision making it.

Yeah, but it's a courtesy and.

I ain't get that with like I had to know it and then just had to see him every day. Then finally he dipped and I was like, oh, that's that was real. The all good, But he left and that kind of left the imprint on me, like, all right, this thing ain't like the team you think this is, which I kind of knew already, but it got hit in the face again. And the last thing was my agent left. My agent was a superagent too. Still my homie still the man Nick Kahn who went to WWE.

Now he runs WWE.

And he basically told me on the way out, he was like, look, he had a ton of clients. He was like, look, man, every now and then, you got a swing for the fences. And he's like, I've been hitting a lot of bass hits, doubles, doubles inside the park.

Home run right, right, right right, like he was killing it.

No one thought he probably from the outside shit left, but now he's running WWE.

A billion dollar company. Thank you that part.

So you know, he was just like, you got a swing for the fences and that was a seed that was planet that didn't blossom until my contract was up. And I was like, damn, I'm just feeling all that. So long story short, working with Whitlock, it was great. It was the challenge was not us doing the show, it was people hear him and didn't hear me. So you know, we do a segment even though I'm challenging them or supporting them. They didn't hear me, they heard

He's going to say the crazy highlight the stuff that gets clipped and puts on Twitter and.

Write, and that was challenging because that's not who I am. I'm not based like that. I'm listening to all perspectives to grow a new perspective. And I just got a little fatigue to that. But I still was going to roll with it because I really cared about the show and I really liked what we were doing.

Do you feel like at times like would you ever run into any issues when he would take a position on something, Oh yeah, a ton and you're on the show with them, so do you get associated with that or are they're like, yo, fam, what are you doing? Like, yeah,

Yeah, and you know, without particulars like Kaepernick was a hot button issue. I didn't mind that because you know, I don't even know how you say this properly, but I had my issues with Kaepernick as well.

But no, I think I think I think as the way you say, well, I think as it kind of the cap thing, I think as it wavered and it felt like he really had real opportunities. I think that that Atlanta thing that happened where he had the workouts, yeah, and he wanted to do the workout his way. It was like, brother, they're giving you the yo.

I mean, people have come up to me and literally said, can I talk to you for second? I'm sorry, I apologize. I don't even know these cats. I thought you were a sellout. I thought you were against us and all that, and I was like, dog, I don't even believe in all.

That stuff you're talking about.

I just tell you what I see from my perspective and my experiences on any situation. I knew Kaepernick before all that, I haven't talked to him since, but I saw the one eighty fine.

You know, I ain't the first, I guess.

For me, it was just like the demonization of someone just kneeling to bring attention to something. Obviously you get into three or four years later down the road, the lawsued like he cashed out, you know what I'm saying, and then he still had an opportunity to.

See that's the point though. This is the funny. I always tell people I am not a hater. I just tell the truth too early. And I said it way like day one. I'm like, I could read this like it's like if you take me to a workout and show me some defensive ends, I need three reps. I could tell you who this and who down here that fast. So I read the situation accurately from that moment. Doesn't mean he's not doing work. But you said it best. He brought attention, but I don't think the attention was

What he wanted. But what did he want?

He didn't know. That's why he didn't do any Q and as he didn't go out there, he didn't do a lot of interviews. They do any podcasts mean a lot? You mean none? None. It was also took that money and didn't say any I mean, I mean, we don't know how much it was, right, no, but I'm sure the condition of him getting that money was everything is Yeah, if.

You're the NFL, of course you're gonna make him sign the NBA. Of course you're gonna say you can't go out there and damage our brand.

But he act like you want to play every single year that was and that's what you said. It's like if you really really really wanted to still play. I feel like that that Atlanta thing, the way he moved the workout last month purpose, I was just like, people act like this. At that point, I was like, guys, okay, we got it.

Like you a couple of years after me when I was like, guys.

Yeah know I was. I was for sure because it took me a while. But when that happened, I was like, this is this, ain't it? What's going on? Oh?

Well, you know what's going on?

And it's just funny because I know too many guys that would die for a workout, Like I know dudes that are beast ballers. Give me a workout, dog, that's rap is on. And this guy had multiple chances and opportunities and a workout and a settlement and y'all trying to act like they trying to keep him down. Maybe you don't want to get up. That's how all I looked at it, and it wasn't that deep for me.

Yo, it's crazy. So obviously we just saw everybody getle go at Espnos. I mean, and they've had a lot of cuts before. Steven they did a good job of putting that out on his show, like where were you in this year and all these people got fired and then this year all these people got fired. But again your boy Max got let go, who is one of my favorites, especially when it comes to boxing. I love when he is working the fights, you know, for people

Yeah, those two, those are the first two that caught me off guard. Max and No No, I think the Max thing we kind of saw coming.

Yeah, exactly, Jeff van Gundy. I was like, damn.

But then one all right, so Jeff van Gundy, that one caught me the most off guard.

But then my second mind kicked in.

He was like, hey, bro, he'd be going in on the NBA with partner of ESPN. I can understand that. Did you dive a little deeper? You realize maybe there was a little uh maybe during coffee and tea and can you let him go or else it's gonna be tougher in our next negotiation.

Maybe that Jayalen Rose caught me off guard.

But then I was like, yeah, him and Max kind of in the same boat. They start chipping away at what your what your products are your entities? So no more him, Jalen and Jacoby.

Then this happened right because the Jacoby Jalen show got cut first.

He got cut first. Max no first take. For a while, this just in, which felt like a filler show. All right, you're not here, here you go. But how I don't think Max leaves our show, leaves LA to do this just in and people don't think like this, But you get that in consolation.

But this is why I left ESPN and left Sports Nation. It's one thing to.

Be getting paid and Max was getting paid, but he got paid to do first tape and now here they go what they plan.

B Like, Okay, you don't Steve Steven, they don't want you on first take anymore. We got this for you, right.

But that ain't for you. That's just something to kind of fill the time.

It's something fast to justify us paying you.

Exactly, And so there's a huge difference between them paying you and them supporting you.

Now.

I felt that Sports Nation with all the rotating hosts and co hosts, and I was like, they paying me, but they I don't see foresight.

I don't see runway.

I don't see where they're all invested in the next five years of the show. And it was tough to call her bluff because every time you say that, they're like, oh, of course we are.

Of course you are.

And then I said, all right, I'm gonna leave, and as soon as I left, they canceled that show, proving my point. I was on thin ice. The show was on thin ice.

One day, they'll just wake up and be like a Sports Nation. It was novel back then ten years ago.

Now everyone has a touch screen, everyone interacts with the fans and social media. So I was like, I got ahead of that one. I felt the same for Max. I was thinking like, damn, this ain't gonna last. This just then, even though it wasn't a bad show. It just wasn't a show. He would have left LA and he's going to do bad right, So saw that coming man, And you know he has a little time on he has time to work with in terms of still getting

What they're doing in ESPAN. They might do at FS one. Yeah, they which they actually got from Skips.

So I want to clarify everybody think Stephen, they started this.

Now back in the day, That's what Skip used to do.

That's what Skip used to do on court.

We don't remember that. Cold Pizza was always like Woody Page or Steven A or the Stu Twins.

I remember them.

I know you're talking about God, I forget it. Monie Jones was on a lot of people.

Would you come on there?

Yes, So it was a thing before Steve and A revamped it and now Skip may go back to it.

Let me ask you this, do you feel like the way because I feel like the Pat McAfee thing happening, and then all of this these cuts happening, and Steven A starting his own show. I feel like none of these are coincidential.

Oh no, it's not right.

I'm like, okay, well, they had to pay this guy, however much they had to pay him for him to walk away from that. Fanuel Deal would shout out to him for being comfortable enough to do that. But then at the same time, you got, oh, look, steven A launches his own thing like you too, Like, do you feel like Pat McAfee in the same way that Skip and steven A kind of changed what moves the needle in traditional TV ratings on sports networks with debate by the way, PTI was the first to kind of do that.

Yeah, he's the one that shows the proof of concept the best in sports. You know, you combine that with the Paul Brothers, you combine that with Joe Rose. Yeah, yeah, he starts getting crazy, but sports or it's McAfee, And the beautiful thing is I keep going back to it. He ain't even raised his hand to do it, but you know what he was doing. He didn't know it. He was falling into alignment where the.

Industry had to go So let's go way.

Back to like ninety eight ninety nine when Bill Gates first said content is king, and everyone's heard that, but we didn't really understand it because we didn't have the proper mediums and the proper conduits to do that. So content is king before social media is really big?

Meant what I.

Stay in the studio longer, my show is longer. What's content is king? But what he really meant then? And I was just at a speaking in the Silicon Valley about this where all the tech guru CEOs are talking vcs now that this world, especially sports media, is going to change and morph into everyone is a creator and everyone is a channel. Now some people are already pushing back, probably thinking I ain't a channel, I'm not a creator.

Gerrant content creator? Technically, yes, if someone is following you, that's giving you attention. If you post something, someone's giving that some sort of attention. You might get two likes. There you go, that is content. You may get two likes.

But if you talk about interaction engagement, did someone slow down on it right there? Because that's what they look on the back end. Sure, they're trying to measure.

Those metrics, and they're like, oh that was interesting.

Okay, now we're going to change your feet in the algorithm for that point being you are a creator on the grandest scale that is Pat McAfee. He just started to plug a way doing a three hour show every single day and falling into alignment where everything had to go.

So now everything is going on.

And very unedited, very unhinged when it came to the language he's using, and it was like, oh, this guy hasn't worked for nobody, so he could say whatever the fuck he was he wants, and it was sick.

And I mean, you know, I'm watching one of my contemporaries doing the same thing, broadcasting played ball like I did, and then I'm watching him in a tank top curse about the same topic that I'm over here, hello in a soup looking on premer prophet.

It's like, who's the fans gonna want to see? They want to see the uncut version of that?

Or right, I wanted to see that, So I'm like, you know, getting off the studio desks.

Everyone is bowing down to me.

Oh, look, Mars's on no TVV linear cable respect which it is.

Of course, of course it's a different animal. If it wasn't, Pat McAfee wouldn't be on ESPN if it didn't matter. Because it does still matter because he took the He's a lot of people think he walked away from you know, maybe a little bit more money.

No, they got that wrong too.

Let me tell you all right, So let's just say the Fan duel deal is one twenty. If it's one twenty, that's what they reported. And then he gets eighty five from ESPN. Everybody already initially kind of ran with it the wrong way. One twenty from FANDU is hear Pat? Do everything else with it?

Pay every pay your staff, pay yeah, pay the whole crew whatever, bax Man Jones, everybody, all of them.

Yeah, and run that operation and you deal with all that tax attorneys and all that. Or I give you eighty five and then we pay your crew, and then I go, AJ, come here, you come in here next. Nobody talking about his deal. AJA, here's your five year twenty five, whatever it may be. So everybody starts getting that, it grows greater than the one twenty he got from Fan duel and everybody secure. Everyone gets their health insurance through somebody. It ain't on Pat McAfee's diamond, et cetera.

And he's gonna be able to do so much like if he just hosted the SPS, you know, like they threw him in last minute, last minute, and he killed it. He killed it.

That's that's the thing, Like he still gets to do what he's doing, but he also gets that turbo boost at Nitrius from ESP.

By the way, shout out to a j Hawk for never having to leave his house and and and just they somehow did such a good job. Because you know, I'm so against zoom content, like when we do interviews and stuff for the most part of somebody.

I noticed that when we were setting it up, like.

Bro, if someone look like if if Drake was like, we have to do I'm just I mean, like you're what you're but you're in town, you know, Like I think we've maybe done two or three Zoom interviews in the last three years. I think one of them was, uh, tyres you let Tyrese off the he from lad that we did that more for the radio.

Ray got a spot in l A two. So who are you letting off the hook? These cats live in l A Dog TLC. It's hard to get all three of them to guarantee too.

Left, I passed away t bos and Chili. Uh but yeah, it wasn't What was the other one? Oh? Yeah, and then I but for my ship. I think that's the only two. Oh and then Goodie Mob. They were in Atlanta and it was middle of the pandemic. Okay, so this was like early pandemic. They don't dance no more.

Okay, I give you some of that, but but but they've done a good job of figuring out a way to make the remote thing work.

Does that everybody do? Nobody even notices anymore? Yes, because in the hip hop's face people notice. Really. Yeah, like when you're not doing like an in person interview in the music space, people notice. That's a great point. Sports were so used to seeing everybody Mike will Buns in Arizona, Y. It's a condition. Cornheiser's in d C.

And yeah, so like you know, just kind of finish your point and finish what we were talking about. Everyone's gonna become a creator. You already are, but it's gonna become like you're gonna into it and really realize that's who you are. Even if you're an old lady just sitting there showing pictures of your grandkids, you're a creator. What comes from that is now you're going to all understand you have to license that out. And what ESPN just bought into was the first licensing of a creator.

Created, which are creators? Now?

Traditional media, whether that's Lindear or a cable or traditional media has to now buy into all of us because we are where the people are. So reason I took off my suit ultimately is I was making one point nine million dollars. I hate this world. We can't tell kids and people how much you make it. Like in football, everybody know how much you make, right everybody?

Everybody? You know, every little detail, every little claw, yeah point zero. You know if you make the pro Bowl this year. That's an extra five hundred k. Or Kyler Murray has to study.

Right then I get into that was funny these thin like these these like fragile egos or fragile industry of.

Why And we saw a lot of these salaries of the guys who just got fired, and you were like, God, yeah, I'm like whyle we hoigh. Guys like Keyshawn Johnson was eating not not was he signed a five year deal and only did one year of it. He's getting paid for the next four years. When I saw the Keyshawn Johnson number, and listen, the morning show was decent, it wasn't great. Kishan is a decent like like obviously a legendary player. He's done a great job. Dog dog Yeah, listen, la legend, sc legend.

Oh here come my butt.

When I saw that number, I was like, oh.

You forgot Sean always hit him over.

The Temple Bay his agent. I think he's his own agent, whoever agency is negotiating his ship. I said, oh, man, good for him.

But you know the real of that is he got that deal. God, let me let me untangle this for y'all. So Max is making that big first take money then they're like, all right, Stephen, they and him ain't gonna mix water and oil.

They ended up putting Max on with Kishan, right, yeah, that's that morning show. Yeah, so this is how it is. Keith Shan was already there. They got rid of this Oban guy, right, he got sick and then they just left something like that.

So then Max comes in, but Max making first take money.

That's the most expensive morning show ever, right for a radio show, right at all time.

So then Keishaw sitting there like he came to my hood. This is my show whose name is first Kishank. So he used at his leverage. That's how he got that dough.

Hey, let's stop the interview real quick to tell you about our good folks at King Palm. That's right, man, shot to King pom we're talking about them. But that organic, all right, that natural raal them leafs, all right, there's no tobacco involved, and they're so smooth when you smoke in them. I love King Pomps. The only thing I'm smoking at them now. If you go to your local liquor store, you go to your local smoke shop, you

I was making one point nine, which is you know, I mean like I'm in a minus territory.

Most that's great though most used to don't make that. And you were were you being Were you in LA or you were going to Connecticut? La all la? Which was great. It was a great fit for my life. It's just I'm plaateaud. First of all, I'm the realist. It's just like being an athlete. I knew when I was sorry.

Now everyone else will say it before me, but I acknowledge it when y'all saying it too.

When an athlete's coming down the hill, he knows.

It, he just ain't gonna admit it.

He won't admit it. Everyone else is gonna say it.

So I knew I was Plateau because the three big dogs in my industry, I never could be like them, and that's a positive for them and just a difference from me, Stephen A. Skip and Colin. So this is how I look at life. Man, it's the science of life. I'm like, all right, all three of them didn't play at the highest level, so there's a different level of

I don't go in on the case. You'll notice a lot less of the crueler takes coming from actual people who played right exactly.

So I was like, damn, I'm not a hot take artist and people think that's with a negative connotation. I'm like, no, that's just a brand. We're all in the circuits, just different tents. My tent is not that So I was like, so how much can I make it my tent and now I'll start looking around. I was like, I think you making the most in this tent, bro. So I was like, do you bet again? My next negotiation was gonna be a haircut, using the pandemic and.

All this stuff. So I was like, then I'm looking at my neighbors.

I'm like, these suckers are going downstairs and these content houses destroying life and moving in next to me. So I was like, all right, we talked through the negotiation. Basically I started my own show downstairs in my house.

I'm just going downstairs.

It was your decision to leave FS one. So yeah, all that's on your own terms. Both times, well if they're paying me ten millions what I'm saying, but both but both times leaving ESPN and FS one, you left on your own. Oh yeah, like there, well there are other opportunity it shows for me to go there. Yeah. No, but you you were like, hey, I'm gonna move on f S one because I have a place where maybe I can showcase why I am more. Yeah. And then once the FS one thing ran.

Its course, yeah, free agency, Like you got other offers? Are they better offers here? So my mind at leaving that FS one was this. There was three levels of me landing the plane. The first one was we not doing Speak for Yourself anymore because Whitlock's not here, who designed that whole show.

He was there from there.

You're there when it became you weren't there when it became speak.

No, That's when I was out because they were telling me about that right, and I was like, damn, I'm going backwards in life. No slight to them, because I already did s Forced Nation and I was like, I've already done the four person panel all that. You've been there, done that, and they're done that. At the top layer, we're gonna talk about cowboys, We're.

Gonna talk to lakers. I've done that.

And I was like, damn, I got so many more muscles to flex that I won't get the flex in that format on this show.

But they paying you so much, They paying you to be in.

That velvet coffee, like, just just die slowly with us, shut up, you know what I mean?

And so I was like, damn.

Level two was the fact that the offer wasn't going to be as grand as my imagination of being out here, being on YouTube, letting brands plug into me. Sponsors, plugging to me, going direct to consumer, and number three was frankly, we start talking about other shows, building the show out in my home, which we started First Things First, which I love, but it's in New York. It was conversations

I've done that, but I don't want.

To do that.

And then, you know, using my network and knowing what I know and wanted to lean into my foundation, I said, you know what, just do your own thing. Regained the man. Yeah, it will come. And then let's wrong and.

The YouTube is doing well it is.

And you guys, I mean almost six months.

Do you have somebody handling your brand partnerships and your sponsorships or do you do a lot of that yourself?

Are you Yeah, someone's handling it, But I mean I'm always c seed.

I'm always chiming in.

You know, only I know my own secret sauce. Did they get your blue choo yet? The blue choo? Are you blue chewed up yet? What is that? You gotta get that blue choo? Man? What is that they sponsor our show? Oh, that's some food or something dip to it's like a dick bill. My wife said, get it. Get that back to en greeting is virns cialis used the promo code blueleg Oh and you get a month for free. It's move with that. Okay. You mentioned talking about the Cowboys and Lakers? Yeah? Yeah, is it ever?

I think you need to ask it the other way. Whether ever times I was excited, I was always fatigued to that because what we were doing was chasing where we thought the audience was. And look, let's be real. You talk about the Cowboys and Yankees, Lakers. You can say what you want. People do respond to that, but you got to remember, like TV ratings are archaic.

Compared very archaic the way they work, Yes, the same way radio is very arcade.

So you get it.

So the whole point is it's like, man, all right, we're using this to guide us, but ask compass.

But it's flawed.

It's flawed.

Yeah, So we literally are comparing ourselves to those who are independent creators who have comments, who actually.

Oh you can actually see the views.

You can see the views.

This it's a hunch because you got this system that Yeah, it's.

Crazy, right, bar is a backdrop at the bar. Oh that's a rating, yeah, but they ain't watching you.

That's like when people say radio ratings count. When someone gets in an uber and someone's playing something all with it, you're listening to the station. Technically, it's like, oh, am I like, yes, just because.

It's on like the engagement.

So I mean it's fatiguing beyond, especially because I'm wired differently than most people in this business, because I've always just been a guy who's intellectually curious.

And I mean I put the actions behind that.

I went to Columbia them near in people's eyes and perception threw away my football.

Career to go to a Yeah.

Yeah, so I'm a whole different animal. That doesn't mean I'm smarter. It just means I'm bet a little different than you. And so when we keep going over this same topic, I'm bored as hell because I'm like.

Br how many times do we talk about this this month?

And I would say that on air, which gave me a lame but also like, dog, you're not this our business model, bro, like you over here fighting what we do?

What was the like, what's something that comes to mind? The one storyline or story or topic that maybe over a month's time or three months time or you were just like enough, this is crazy.

Yeah, it's always talking about Dak that top five? Now is Dak top ten? It's Dak good enough to win the super Bowl? It is that good enough to make an NFC Championship game, Dak's contract justified.

Like, I'm like, god, dog, how many different times we talk about this one guy who's never won a Super Bowl or an MVP.

Meanwhile, everybody else passing them up if you want to say it in terms of their team is doing better, right, they're winning ships.

We put them at the bottom of the show.

It's almost like, and listen, Tony Romo to me was much better than Dak Prescott. But it's kind of with Tony Romo back in the day. It's like they wouldn't stop talking about Tony Romo, and it's like, yeah, the number one of all though, was that t Bow fat? Oh my god, people don't remember that. That was insane. I remember, Oh, I remember it vividly and I had to work through a lot of that all day every day Tim Tebow talk. Yeah, and Tebow won one playoff.

Game, uh against the Steelers, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true underdog and I love him as a human, but God, if you're talking about sports, was that the guy that put that much on?

And I think they came back a little bit.

Remember when he was on the Jaguars for the practice squad. I was like, Oh no, he's fack. I thought we got rid of him. Any wanted to play baseball?

Yeah, now I love chasing Tim Tebow to human, but the great guy player, great guy. They were doing way too much so that one all of that Dak talk just to me.

As soon I see it, I like to throw up in my mouth a little bit, Like, come on, bro, how much of sports media is like, because because you will always see like unspoken beafs with people like I've seen I've seen Michelle Beatles say stuff about Rachel Nichols and obviously there's like this, yeah I think it was on a podcast or something.

Okay, Mama, as I call her, Mama, Mama bees don't play.

She don't give a damn goddamn Spurs fan too, god bless. Yeah, but how much of it is like, is there like a lot of stuff that we don't get to see where people really just don't fuck with each other but they have to be on TVA with each other. Oh? Absolutely, because we've seen so much of that recently where like skipping Shannon had big, big blowouts, or Perk and JJ Reddick or you know, there's been all these things where

That's part of the disruption, that's part of what's leading us in the ground Swell to go to more independence because both of those scenarios has an independent creator. Content creator kind of mixed up in there. So you got skipping Shannon all right. They've been doing this show for seven years while y'all beefing down in part because Club Sha Shae independent creation, which gave him.

The different lane of popularity.

Whether you say it's to the same level or surpassing Skip, that's something Skip can't compete with. Skip has his own podcast No one watches. I can't say no one could have got more subscribers than me. But he's been around way longer than me. I'm gonna catch him real quick, real quick.

And if you have great numbers for six months.

Dude is going and I'm loving it. So there's a there's a Club Shay shape. There's also a Kwame Brown element of like stirring it up.

He's a wild boy that Kwame brown Man.

Funny, hilarious, will stare look at you and stir it up and then say, now what you're gonna do?

I'm on my tractor and good luck.

So anyway, I'm just trying to give people the dynamics of why these things are shifting.

Same thing.

When you talk about a situation where there's a stephen A and then there's a Max kellen Man, and you see that's the situation.

You're like, what's going on?

Well, because the Internet has such a loud voice, so when you're trying to protect your brand, you're almost in a reality show. Now, people got it twisted. Doing the reality show ain't hard. It's when it's edited, and it's when the world gets to see it and respond and talk about you. That's when it gets hard. So skip Shannon stephen A, Max, Ah, we fine. Doing this is just when we go home and check it.

Oh this night. Subconsciously, shit gets to you sometimes I'm sure, yeah, I'm sell out.

Oh I'm dumb. Oh he cooler to me, like you know what I mean?

And then all of a sudden you start to weave and do things a little differently.

What's your prediction for Shannon Sharp.

It's gonna be wrong. Let me say that.

Uh before you answer, I think if I'm him, what I hope, Well, let me tell you what I hope. I hope he just goes all in on himself. Okay, what does that mean? Though? I think he takes Club Shad Shade to a daily he obviously does the but I think if he did if he did a daily show on his own channel and he did that for a year, two years and built up leverage, whatever bag he's about to get would be way bigger because he's got all the attention and all the eyes on him.

Like if I could, and I think the magic wand would be exactly what McAfee did. Like he literally would turn Shay she into it daily and he couldn let it be on ESPN because there were talks of Shade Shape being on Fox in the summer during the dot right right now, Yeah, you would let it live every single day, pour all the resources into it. Then you would have like also the commercial being on First Take

So it's basically what the McAfee model is. I don't you think he's gonna do though?

Snap, you just don't see him going back to Fox. I see him doing the once a day, once a week would first take steven A.

Maybe Mondays during the football season. Yep.

I see him ramping up Club Sha Shape, but not daily on the YouTube and continue to leverage that. I see him leaning into his cognac and slanging that. And I also see him trying to build it up to a point where he's not in the space he is right now, which is once a week. He lateral move or promotion would be another you would.

Think, like if you see the amount of money that Draft Kings gave Pat, if you're Sandal or Fandel rather sorry if you if you're Shannon Sharp, you gotta be like, I'm more popular. Maybe maybe maybe it's close, well not close in subscribers. No, no, no, no, no, not in subscriber. I just mean in terms of like star power. Right now, Shannon Shark, and everybody's talking about Shannon Sharks as they should. He's popping right now.

Okay, my agent, my broadcasting podcast agent. I have two, but one of them was just working on a nine figure deal. Now I can't say who because he didn't tell me who, but I kind of narrowed the borders. I was like, and I know, I think one of them could be Shannon.

The other I'm not gonna say it.

I gotta protect the guilty because the guy doesn't want it out. It could be still Shannon or somebody else. But long story short, the money's out there though, nine figures, nine figures.

So you know, that's the old McAfee fan dual kind of deal.

So it could be Shannon.

But the point is I don't see him having a daily show on ESPN unless this club chase shape. I would love to see that and then let him do first take once a week, call that a rap, leverage it for a couple of years, and then see what what's next?

What's the next run to? Who was somebody who helped you the most in growing as a broadcaster? Over the years. Obviously transitioning from playing in the NFL for ten years coming to TV. Was there like a big homie of yours that like really kind of helped show you the ropes? Yeah?

Day one, No, Lie, I left the football field, and I didn't know how big Mike and Mike was. I knew how big ESPN was, But when you're playing, I swear people think you're lying. I didn't watch any of them shows. I know they even had daily shows. I didn't know they had NFL Live.

I think I believe you back then. I feel like nowadays it's hard, it's very hard to avoid it. But yeah, but back then, I get it. Yeah.

No, I never heard of Mike and Mike. I never heard of NFL Live. It was just so random, right. I knew about NFL Prime Time, and I knew like watch Sports Center and Berman.

To do right, Chris Berman and yeah Jackson right right right? I mean, what's man? I can't think Godlee, I'm bad. I can't think of this guy who played for the Broncos.

Yes, gode y'all gonna kill me in them comments, do it? But yeah, those guys, And I was like, that was it. I made it if I made a high light on there right right. So I'm looking around, I'm like, all right, I'm at ESPN day one and they're like, all right, can you get up at like five in the morning, be in the studio five fifteen and want you on Mike and Mike. I was like, all right, radio show, And I was like, damn, I got the radio, Like I can't take this later or I'm like not even

I'm out. And I was like I got at five o'clock just for one segment.

And when I was done, I was like, I can see this is bigger than I thought.

But how big?

Got off air, checked my phone and it was lit up like I signed a new deal house I got dang.

I was like Mike and Mike up there in every city everywhere. For ever many years, it was like the longest morning show. I mean, I just remember my whole life Mike, Mike was on. It feels like, so which Mike helped you out? The most golic golic.

Now after that first segment, Yeah, he literally comes to me and he's like, dude, you're a storyteller. He's like, don't ever let somebody tell you any different. He's like, everyone can do this extras and those stuff, there's computers for that, etc. He's like, your stories, please, just stick to your stories. Don't script out your takes, don't be rigid, don't get on that railroad track.

Just tell stories.

Your experiences are insane, to the point where the next week they called me to come in. It was to fill in for Mike Greenberg who was going and I literally did a four hour show on Mike and Mike.

Now my second week from being just.

From being like one segment early in the morning crazy and I just ran with it. I never got boxed in to the purest version of broadcasting, which is extras and ols.

Third and goal, what should they do?

Oh? They should play?

Actually I was like, dog, I'm talking about the girls, talk about the club, I'm about the player, talking about his life, on his emotions. I'm doing the ey's and ues, not the x's and o's, And I just kept going with that because I got that confidence from Goli when I first got there.

Guys stopped, the interviewer said about our good folks at odd Socks. Baby, yeah, shout out to odd Socks. Now, this is what I love about odd Socks. One, they're family, we love them. But also they have the most comfortable socks in the fucking world. All right. Now, Look, they got the craziest licenses. You see the Jolly Rancher. These are actually flies. Fuck some Dorido socks. They got the WWE license, which is just my absolute favorite. And then

My record, it had to be Buffalo those four years, even though we weren't making the Super Bowls like they were years before.

Was this like Rob Johnson, Buffalo.

Doug Flutie, Rob Johnson, Alex van Pelt that Buffalo Waye Phillips. Marv Levy was our coach. Yeah, it was crazy, man. I walk into a locker room.

Wait were you? Were you on the field for the MotorCity Miracle, Music.

City, Music City when you were there? I was there, but I wasn't was on the golf team.

Yeah you were. You were on our special teams.

That was a crazy wow talking about a lighte flashing before your eyes.

Crazy did that happen? Dog?

We were losing that whole game in part because we didn't start Doug Flutie.

We started Rob Johns. I remember that whole debate in Rob Johnson had that really interesting bandana he would wear.

Really interested, you stupid, So we we we started the guy that the locker room I would say, mostly didn't support.

And didn't want.

So we're like, all right, we're going out there, a little handicap and let's go.

And they had Javan Curse that year. I remember the creak and.

They were playing Rick James every time the Sucker made a sack, and they played a lot of Rick James that game.

Right. The sucker was tilting his rookie year. He was insane.

He was so good so good.

So they're they're beating us most of the game. And I remember the fans heckling us. We're in Tennessee, they talking trash. We had the number one defense, but it was a low scoring game, but they still were winning.

And everybody in their head was like, damn Flutie was playing.

One curse, ain't gonna get to Flutie like he getting the rock because he was mobile. Yeah, And two we were like, oh, we might be winning this game anyway. Somehow, some way, we find a way where we're leading. And I think it's like twelve seconds ago, nine seconds, I don't know, it's something low. All we got to do is kick the ball off, make the tackle.

Game over, yin yan yang.

And I remember right before the kickoff, so the whole stadiums deflated, and then the people started to walk a little like just to go.

They're not leaving, but they're gonna. They're gonna stand at the top so seeing the final play and then try to get to the car for everybody else. Yeah, and we clowning them. We're like, oh, oh, where are I going? What's up?

And were like, because we think we're gonna win, there gonna do is kick the ball off and then tackle to do. They kicked that ball off and I think, uh, lorenz O'Neil got it first. Now he's a fullback, so I'm not expecting him to take off, but he's jogging and he's a fullback, So what's happening In slow moment, I'm like, what, And.

I think he threw it?

Uh him or white check through it to Dison now diceon can row when he threw it cross field, Yeah, that's what it was.

Low Neil got it. Give the white check.

He ran the sideways, threw it and then and when he did this, everybody on our.

Because you could see it. We've seen too much football. We could see it delble like.

So my thought was, I swear it happened on the opposing sideline, Tennessee. If it happened right in front of me, I would have took that penalty. Now, I don't know if they would have gave them six six points or they would just say give them.

Twenty yards right right right.

And I was like, ain't no, because you can just see it. There was no one in front him, and we got sucked in. He caught that ball to the house and it was a rap.

After that, you guys get to the locker room. After that ends, what is said? What does Wade Phillips say? What is like? What what is the like? That's one of those things, right, How did it like what happens in the locker room right after that? Immediately?

Yeah, Well, the first thing that happened was a ten minute in real time like instant replay, Like they literally went under the hood for it felt like ten minutes, kind of like the tuck room, remember that.

Yeah, because this was prior to their being challenges and all.

That, right, Yeah, but they had to review it and they kept going, kept going. The fans start crowding around the officials, like right there in the front row. I mean, it was a shoe scrum, and he's just under there looking like, I mean forever, just.

Like the tuck rule was. He was like twenty minutes later.

Then he came out and he was like the call stands or you know, touchdown.

We were like, oh, because we thought it was a FOURD letter yeah kind of, I mean, but I mean it was close MIT.

I think they did it at MIT and they were like, yeah, it was a FOURD letter by this degree.

But whatever.

So then we get into the locker room, and not to exaggerate it, it felt like a traumatic experience, like you remember being in there, but now you reflect back. I don't recall any of that except crying. Everybody was like either pissed or crying. But I don't remember one word from Wade. I don't remember one interaction with another guy. I just remember seeing tears, people pissed off, and even

But this is a whole different era.

Man. We just had to we had to eat it. We had to take Yeah, because I just finished The Quarterbacks on Netflix. Have you seen that? So Netflix has a show that they dropped. You should watch it? Okay, It follows last season Marcus Mariota, Patrick Mahomes and Kirk Cousins seen the billboard somewhere. It's so good.

It means, let me find out it's really good, let me hear why.

Well one it lets you know how much of like an absolute maniac because it follows Patrick Mahomes at home and they're with them all year. He's a maniac. For Kirk Cousins. You come out of it respecting him so much more because he gets hell, yeah, yes, he played hurt all season last year, and I didn't know he was the most hit quarterback in football last year. I didn't know either, So he was just getting this. Shaffer

And you're like, well, how do you measure that? Because I've played Julius Pepper's Hall of Famer. Oh yeah, got caught up in that where there's a physical demonstration and like expression of commitment. And then there's some guys who just like, I'm showing you that, but I am committed.

I just think Julius Peppers is alien too, so that's different. Yeah. It's like it's like questioning Alan Iverson. It's like, yeah, but he's Allan Iverson. Marcus Mariota is not Alan Iverson. But I came out of it being extremely scared for the next ten years about having a you know, I mean, I'm a Cardinals fan, so it doesn't really matter. We're not doing shit. But just Mariota or Mahomes is that guy. But Kirk Cousins is man, He's a baller. Yeah, Kirk.

See, that's another thing about like sports media, you got some you got to tell someone I'm over here on fire, and I ain't nervous to tell somebody I'm sweating.

Yeah.

The thing about like I got a little mad too at here we go, Thank you, brother. I got mad at just the coverage of a guy like her Cousins, who's way better than what his labor or narrative, right.

The narrative is he's chokes and you're never gonna win a Super Bowl.

Kirk Cousins.

Yeah, yeah, until he does, or you know, if he does. It used to be that way with Andy Reid, by the way, come on.

It was Andy Reid. Look, they did that to so many grace.

It was rich Gannon who never won when he got there, but was an MVP and a machine got there. So it's like, come on, here's the thing. Why don't like it? And it really hits me is because I coach. I coached my son. He's a seven year old, and we out there Tilton like we win the championships every year.

We got squad.

But the thing that really hurts me is every single kid that shows up, their heroes are the active players. Now, some of them like guys like a Dak Prescott, like a Kirk Cousins, Like it's not always just who is the best, you know, they find their guy and they love their guy. And I was like, dog one day it hit me it was crazy, I'm coaching my kids and their favorite receivers or Cooper Cup and all these kind of guys you know they love. My son loves

Kid, for my kid, and for a bunch of kids.

Meanwhile, I'm telling this kid run, stay in line, stay disciplined so he can be the best he could be, and pray he can make it to the league. And now I'm over here watching that happen to not only NFL guys, but like a Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook and like.

Pick them, just tearing them down from there, especially Russ. I mean, you want to talk about somebody who's a lot of kids heroes that got tore down to Like I mean, listen, thank god the Clippers thing worked out, but it was it was like sad to see the way people were talking about I'm like, this is Russell Westbrook. I mean, like, this guy's probably my favorite player I've ever watched in person. Just to see Russ live up close with the thunder, it was crazy. Yeah, and he homie too is good.

Dude.

Look, no one's perfect in terms of listen.

Yeah, you can get into like what you said, you get into the good for winning the Disney fit with the Lakers, you know, But.

But keep your respect, calling like stripes like let him in jackets like you are a doctor.

I'm always call you. Yeah, you're a hall of fame. You're a hall of fame. I always respect my MVP.

Yes, y'all coming at me like I'm just trying to make it like I'm trying to do something in this and it's silly, but that's what I just kind of got fatigued of as well, in an overall sense of like overarching this was like, damn dog, we really tearing cats down just for some ratings, just to pop because we got an arcade ratings system, because we competing against all these casts at.

Are on YouTube that could do it. And he don't even tear cast down. He doesn't. No, that's crazy, You're right, he never does any of that ship really know how hard it is.

And so he's a punter saying, man, I'm propping up everybody, and if.

Look the guy any self deprecating, right, I'm just a punner. Who do I know? Right?

And I'm like, dog, there's an alternative to this. There's an alternate universe that I need to go live in. And that's where I'm at now.

One hundred percent. Man, Well, I think it's dope. The YouTube channel's doing great. I'm getting that like in the week. Why do you get that that dope? Once you hit the one hundred thousand, it just gives you an option and they send you one for free. That's s I need that in my life. Yeah, it's gonna happen. I wish they used to give one for two fifty, I think, because we just hit like two seventy five. Well you

They said that pandemic like.

It either broke you or made you better.

Heard like, I know how it was socially for me, but I was fat and fool on the.

Day and it was crazy because I mean, dude, I mean I remember just listening to sports podcast talking about the last Dance like it was happening live because there was nothing else going on. It was like yep, yep.

And the craziest thing was I started because I moved. Since then, my boy Matt Lindzen and I went to college with my brother from another in twenty eighteen. He was like, oh, you need to do a podcast, and I thought he was like almost insulting me.

And it was weird because I was.

Like, dog, I'm listening to him. Him and his wife. They was like, oh my god, I love podcasts. It's the best thing.

And You're like, man, I ain't doing a pile on TV right.

Not only that, but I also don't have the time. But I was like, I'm gonna look into it, no lie. Twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, I started in my poolhouse.

I was like, all right, let me just get in a shot. I didn't even give it a shot. Set it up, got to the point where the MIC's gonna turn on.

Guess what. I was like, Damn, it's hottest hell in there. I sweat a lot, like you can tell right now. And I was like, it's hot at hell here. Okay, we need to order an AC unit or have the AC guy.

Before I start.

Before I start, in that time, I saw a house. I was like, Yo, this dream house. We gotta move.

You go there.

You moved in that time. And then I moved and when I moved didn't reset up. I didn't reset I was just like, all right, maybe that was a sign, don't even do it. And I literally moved and I had this studio in the house and I was like, oh no, I'm good.

I'm gonna just keep doing this.

And then literally when in September of last year, I finally said, man, I ain't gonna be doing this no more. Let's stop doing this and let's do it a different way, do it that independent way. And then from September to like January, I was just like in the lab saying, where's your voice?

Who are you? For real?

What what you love about?

Before? What you love about this future, can you apply to the new ship? Yeah?

And I was just like, then I've got a little paralysis by analysis. I kept designing it.

And I was like, you'll overthink it. Hell yeah, you overthink yourself into procrastination every time.

Dog.

And I was like, that's what they were paying me for.

Over there, don't think we got it got you just show up and it's good and there's.

A takes a lot more to really do it. You're on your own because now you gotta do It's about the action and you're afraid people are gonna receive it for sure. Trust me. I was there too.

Yeah, it was weird, Like I just was like I was I was untraining myself from from a lazier experience, which was great because they paid me and it gave me platform.

But I was like, change your life.

My muscles, man, they out of shape, you know what I mean?

Like, get the work bro in a way that it is expressing exactly who.

You are, not just what the machine is saying.

So then finally January I was just like, let me do it. And then February I was like I turned the cameras on January. February, I said, let's do this for real, do it every day, and now we had like almost one hundred thousand suscribers already.

Well, congrats. Last question, yeah, okay, do you want the Clippers to move on from this Kawhi Paul George Era. I don't know if that's going to happen or not, but but if you tell me your thoughts on that era and do we like to give it another year? Also, how do you feel about James Harden potentially wanting to come to the Clippers and would you would you would you welcome such things? Yeah?

Look, it's so tough to give up on that dynamic duo, but they're not there when you need them most.

The best availability or whether they say the.

Best ability availability, yeah, and we just can't trust that. So it's a lot of hope when you need actions the most. And look, Kawhi's knee is what it is. He took a year, a year and a half off and still couldn't even run off. Yeah, and still couldn't make a playoff run. So then you are like, all right, we got to break it up just to reshuffle the deck, reimagine this situation and get a different result. It's insanity to keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

Beast.

But it's a different animal. So they're gonna have to break it up. But I think they're gonna run it back one more time.

As a Clipper fan, do you ever think I wish we never would have made the trade because we would have had an SGA and all those picks.

No, you know what, Shaye Gildris, they talked them with, They talked to us as fans, They talked to everyone through that process.

They knew they were giving.

Up a ball. Oh Paul, but you gotta take the swing if you're the Clippers, right, you're the Clippers.

No, first of all, you're a professional football of basketball Clippers.

But you're the Clippers. Like, if you can get two of the top fifteen guys in the league, top five guy who just want to ring, you gotta try it. Yeah, it's you gotta swing for the fence. That's why am I man of my son's we're swinging for the fences. Oh should be is a wild boy man he's doing he don't give a fuck about a second apron, first apron. He's running through. That's it.

So we got to swing for the fences.

I think right now the strikeouts are starting to add up where we're gonna have to change our swing, that's all. What about herten on the Clippers on paper, I don't see it, especially because we got Westbrook.

I don't see that. I mean, look, because that means.

Paul George is out, like someone's gotta go someone. You're not gonna trade Kawhi, are you really? No? You have to change Paul. So Paul George is gone.

We're gonna use up Westbrook to get us to the playoffs, hopeful Kawhi to get us over the hump.

And meanwhile, yeah, pg's a better fit than James's.

So yeah, so I don't I don't see that style of ball hardened the baller still because when MB was hurt, he did his staying every single time.

Let the league in assist, yeah, exactly, also let the league and strip club visits.

I can't talk to you now, that's only on an official record. Somebody else got to beat anyway. I appreciate you man, Thank you. Boom go make sure you subscribe on YouTube. You're dropping it out daily, right.

Yeah, daily man.

We there every single day talking sports, intersection of life in sports and just breaking it down for real.

There it is. Appreciate you really, all right, yes, sir, yes, sir fire Hey, this interview is brought to you by our good folks at hard Dean. All right, shout out to the hard Dean family in Las Vegas. Makes you follow them. Hard Dean underscore Las Vegas the number one dispensary period all right, the craziest selection of premius premium cannabis you can ask for. Plus, when you go to Hardean Las Vegas dot com, you can check out all the other cool stuff that got going on. You know,