#258 - Matt Barnes

if he was on my team, I would love. I just played hard. I mean I was a football player, you know what I mean. I played football growing up. I kind of got into basketball late junior highest because I kept getting taller and I started taking more serious. But I grew up being football, So I just looked at myself as like a football player out there playing basketball. So I liked the physicality. I played hard, and you know, I got fifteen years out of it, so it was cool.

What position did you play football? Receiver? That makes sense. I was nice, not the two min horn. I was nice to I led the nation in touchdowns. I was all American, like the top receiver coming out of high school. Where are you actually, like originally from So born in San Jose, lived there for about six seven years, and then did the rest of my time from like eight to eighteen in Sacramento, and then came down to La for u C. L A and pretty much been in

La ever since. Yeah, so you are a West Coast boy for real, for real, Kelly. Yeah, yeah, I mean so obviously growing up you had to be a Kings fan. Chris Webber, So, I grew up a Lakers fan. The Magic Johnson you know, showtime in the early eighties when I started with My dad liked the Lakers, so I grew up really liking them in the forty nine ers, and then the Kings came, you know, when I got to Sack, you know, the Kings were the team, but

they weren't very good. So I started, like, I always have respect because that's where I was, you know, kind of growing up at but you always paid attention. Yeah yeah. But once they got web and and j will First and Bib and those are the you know, those are the homies, that's when I really kind of started rooting for him. So I remember being at UCLA when that King's Lakership was going on that was a serious beef.

That shit was fun in the early two thousands. Yeah, that's one of like I feel like when we talk about like teams that like never got a ring. Oh yeah, one of the greatest to never win it. I think it's like the Kings and the running gun Sons, like the seven seconds or Less Sons. One of those Portland teams were good. Oh, those Portland teams that even even the Pacers teams. Yeah, those the mouse at the Palace here, those guys were supposed to be the best team in

the league. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. You were like, uh, you were kind of like I feel like we were just talking a bit off the camera, but you were kind of like the veteran that I felt like the young dudes really also respected on your teams. Would that be there to say, you know, I just I led by example, you know what I mean, Like, I played my ass off, I'll do anything for the team. They know I'm team first, and I treated them like my family. So whenever there was smoked on the court, they knew

I was gonna be in it. Like all the majority of the times I got fined, I got fined like a lost Probably they said something over like half a million dollars in fines. Jesus. It was never me starting something, was me coming to the defense of a teammate, the only person to paying my files that Marion was cold, but everyone else let me take them. Shit, I was fucked up. Did you defend somebody? So yeah, man, I mean, like I said, I mean, that's just like I said.

I grew up with, you know, a father that if your brother and sister fight, fight, you better fight. If they win and lose, you better fight. You're gonna get your ass. So are you gonna get your ass whip? So that's kind of how I grew up. So I just always looked at my teammates as family. It's just like whenever it was not that I'm the toughest, baddest motherfuckers, but I'm always gonna have just no, I'm always gonna have your back, right, what right or wrong, I'm gonna

have your back. So that's just kind of the way I played. So you know, when I spoke, I was never the star. I was a role player, but I was never the star whatever. But you were starting a lot of your career, man, But every team I was on, you know, like I was a respected voice, Like I wouldn't say too much, you know, I pick and choose when I spoke. But I was a respected voice beginning because I think I just led by example. Yeah, it's great. So when you had Kobe's back and you gotta fined,

he paid your fis as far as ye. The only dude that's crazy because I've been watching, like obviously this year there was a you' The guy who I can't stand right now because of how he's treated my son's is Patrick Beverly because he got at your guy CP in the back and then earlier this year he later ate. Now, I like Pat Bev. I just I don't like everything he does, and I don't have to. He says some pretty crazy shit too. Yeah, yeah, he says them out,

he says them atlantic. No, it wasn't really to me. It was to to CP, you know. And I'm just thinking, like I just didn't like. I feel like media now is it's so it's less about you know, kind of covering what we're watching and critiquing, and it's more just about being disrespectful exactly. I just don't like that, you know. I mean, I feel like, if you know the game. There's so much more you can talk about than being just straight disrespectful. And it's tough because we do have

to critique, especially for more players. We have to critique people we played with before, of course, and that's part of the job. But I feel like you can critique

without being disrespectful. Yeah, And I just think now, I mean that you see guys like Skip Bayless, he's tripping right now, and you know, Steven A. Smith has his runs, and I just feel like guys like are so disrespectful now that players coming in and think they kind of have to they have to, like want the guys carry that type of energy, But we don't because we really lived it. I mean, these dudes that are out here doing whatever they do and I respect everyone in their life.

The talking heads are different than the former player. Man. We have a different we have a we have a natural leg up. We really lived this, you know what I mean. So I just didn't like the way and the crazy part was like we had a little back and forth like this is all about ratings, you know what I mean. ESPN loved it. He was on TV like the next six six days. Yeah, they put him on and he has stuff to say, like I think he's going to be good at it when he gets done.

I just you know, like his you know, like come on, man, we don't need that coming, you know, the way he was talking about Chris, and then like I think it's obvious there's like a personal vendetta there. I mean, we can go back, fine, and it can be that's right right right the poorth unless you guys really gonna fight.

And to me, that's and to me, that's where someone like who I love to seeing Paul Pierce on TV, but sometimes any time Lebron would get brought up, you would just be like, Okay, we get it, bro, Like we get it, Like you don't fuck with Lebron. It's the first. It's the personal stuff, you know what I mean. And it's just naturally as competitors, that's just how we are.

But I mean, if you're gonna be on TV and and really do with you know what you have the capability of doing, you can't be you can be biased in kind of like a cool or a funny way, but you can't be biased in a hater way. Exactly. You can't be a hater. You can't be a hater that's some real ship because it's just you know, look at the oldhead hat and like, I just don't like, I mean, this is a whole other direction even going.

But the kind of like former players, I feel like they have to disrespect the guys that are playing now. It happens a lot, and it just kind of respect the evolution, you know. I mean, I get the money's crazy high, and some of these guys, I'm never gonna say, man, don't deserve the money. But you know, some of these guys get paid a ton of money and don't put up the numbers that some of the older dudes used to get do by a long shot, and they're getting paid and and and you know, again, I think it's

one of those situations where we have to gritique. That's our job. But I think you can, you know, just leave the hate out, like there's just no room for you. To me. You always want to love and push it and courage the next generation to continue to be greater and continuing to raise the bar. And if you're gonna critique somebody, critique them from a place of like if they see that they might be able to take something

from that to their game. Criticism. It's about being constructed because otherwise you're being a dick, Like, really help these young dudes out off the court. I feel like they can do, you know, especially some of these legends that are that are on TV. And I'm not saying, you know, all they do is disrespectful. There's times I'm saying, like, damn, bro, you used to play a player, say some ship like that,

you know what I mean. But it's like, you know, I think that the only guy who like I'm not everyone looks the other way on because guys like KD and there's been a lot of people. But I just feel like Charles Barkley is in a space in his own where Barkley can just just just sha might get some ship. But Charles doesn't give a fuck what you Charles don't give a fuck. And I think it's just a part of the culture. Now. I don't always agree with Charles, but I love the fuck this is me well.

I think also, Chuck's been doing that job for like twenty twenty five years now, so like he's his NBA career has almost his broadcasting careers almost as great as some people only know him as broadcast you know, and but the one thing I love about him is he's always been as a player, he was this way, this is me, take her to leave it, you know what

I mean. So I always you know, respect Chuck. But again he's one of the you know people in the spaces where when you know, I think something like you do you give him a past because it's Chuck, you know what I mean. I think he kind of him and yeah, kind of gets a pass. People be on Shack's ass too, but I mean a Shack like, what can you really say to Shaq? You know what I mean? So I think there's a few guys that are just

like they're gonna do what they're gonna do. It's not always hating, but it's just you know, sometimes some credise ship come at the mouth. But I mean outside of that, I just think, you know, we should always try it again, critique, but make it ruck constructive, kidder sism, something they can adder their life or to their game. Yeah. No, you obviously had a fifteen year NBA career When you guys were playing, how much did you actually pay attention to

the talking heads, to the sports talk shows? It was different, you know what I mean, because you got to think. I came into the league in the early two thousands, you know what I mean, So it was maybe like the last five or six years it was. It was a part of that era. I think I retired to seventeen, so the wave it kind of already hit. But now it's you know, it always continues to evolve. But you hear it. I mean, no matter what anyone says, you

hear everything. And I remember getting a chance to interview Kobe on our show and we asked him, you know, because he was criticized so much as like, you know what what criticism hurt the most? He said, all of them. It's like I heard all of them, you know what I mean. So and someone is locked in and focused on what he's supposed to do, Like, no matter what a player says, he hears it everything. Yeah, and they take it in. I think, I think that's anybody, right.

But see I used to be the opposite. Like I used to be the guy that would you know, be on the table getting stretched or getting treatment before the game and looking on Twitter for people talking shit to me just to kind of motivate amore, you know what I mean, Like like use it as kind of like a chip where like continue to light the fire, just you know, to say fuck you to the haters. But it's a lot, man, you know, and everyone kind of handles it the way they handle it. But just it's

a twenty four hour news cycle. They always need news. That's why I think the quality of news has gone down because it has much of it. It has for sure, I think, I mean, of course, not even just sports, yeah, in general. And I think too, like you know this, probably more than anyone, Like, I think the networks have all figured out what generates ratings is these debate shows.

So as soon as you wake up, you got Nick right, and then you got skipping shedded, and then you got Collin cow heard, and then you got so it's like it's almost like what CNN figured out ten years prior, is like, if we just have people on TV arguing yeah, no question, it's going to be a lot more better for the bottom line than if we actually just have people analyzing the game and showing highlights. It's all about ratings,

that's all. It's about about views, eyeballs ratings. I'm curious because I saw you you spoke about what Skip tweeted. Obviously DeMar Hamlin is going through it. That was a very scary situation as a pro athlete. Yeah, obviously you know there's there's risking football. You played football, but you know, it was definitely a scary situation. And then the interaction between Shannon and Skip on TV today was pretty it

was it was hard to watch. I just it's it's disheartening because you know, as a as a player, I used to really like Skip, but I thought his takes sometimes or you know, would toe the line. But he was good, like he knew what he was talking about. But I just feel like, I don't know, I think maybe as his celebrity has grown, is his his entitlement and his lack of respect for players. His co host

has just kind of continued just to climb. And I felt though, although he said some other stuff in his tweets, like it was just an insensitive and an untimely thing to tweet out for the world to see at that time when this man is literally his heart is beating, stop beating twice on the field, you know what I mean. But Skip is smart, you know, so when Skip said, you know, how can they think about canceling or whatever exact words, were this is so meaningful, but then at

the end he knew. I was like, yeah, this is a little spicy, so let me put you know, everything seems so irrelevant right now though, like he knew what he was doing. Like you just like again, wrong time, wrong place for the tweet. But I think, like I said, it's been building up, like the way he disrespects Shannon today this morning was Shannon was on his malap But like two weeks, a couple of weeks ago, a couple

of weeks ago, it was bad. And I made a post today talking about like I've had and I'm not gonna give up no names, but I've had to put out two fires of people currently in the NBA. They wanted to whoop skips ass and I had to connect dots to to get you know, these kind of phone calls handah, because like I said, it's just there again, there's a line, there's and and to me he's and again he well you know he has a long line

of you know, respectable work in this business. But again, I just feel like of late, it's been crazy, but it's just like people are tired of that, you know what I mean. Like at the end of these are men like you're talking to men that that that that that raise their children, you know what I mean, and have to you know, walk around in public with you just like blatantly disrespect Like, motherfucker's not playing that no more.

I think too, Like when you know, I think sometimes this happens with stephen A because like obviously Skip is the biggest personality on that channel. As as by the way I treated this the other day, I think it was Christmas and stephen A. Smith was on TV all fucking day. I was like, this is the hardest work. How much money could ESPN be paying this guy? Because you know, he's he's he's he's getting it. I'm going n happy for Steve. No, he's killing it. He's killing it,

And I understand. But but I'm from a standpoint like I understand Skip, Like Skip has that lane. So it's almost like a one up type. How can I keep how can I keep on having my name in everyone's mouth and being right? You know what I mean. So it's just like but I just feel like lately he's been in and you've seen times we're just like Shannon. I mean, I got a lot of respect for Shannon sharp.

I mean there's a lot of times where you can see he's taking deep breaths and they kind of calm down from having to ring this dude's neck on on live TV. And you would and and and you know, there's times where I really do feel like that they have some genuine love for each other. No, Yeah, they definitely do. Shannon had a lot of because we had him on the show. Not to cut you off, but Shannon has a lot, like paid a lot of love and respect to to Skip making that show happen, and

how skips they wouldn't work with no one. So there's a lot of love there. Like he's openly said that, but I think of late like, to me, it's that that that entitled arrogance that he he he he throws out there in the one a few weeks ago when he was trying to put his glasses back on him just like, yeh know, that was fucking crazy, you out of your mind? Yeah, like I was seeing a rock waller on a chihuahua. Yeah, Like nobody talks like you shouldn't talk to anybody like that, man, Like that's that's

that's your true feelings, you know what I mean. That's sposed to be your man right there and and to let it happen on TV. Like it just to me that that ship that Reeks entitled me, I wonder how long that's gonna I always after I saw today, I was like, this can't last much longer. I mean, the same thing I put the same thing out there. I'm just like, you know, portunately, this show, I feel like it's going to come to an end because like there's only so much that's gonna take, you know what I mean?

And Skip is who he is and there and it sucks because they're really good. They're great to get a really good show. It's they're better than Skipping stephen A. To me, they're they're name and name of because remember when remember when it was Steven Skip and everybody was like, what's gonna happen Skips leaving the Fox? I'll take Shannon over and and and skip over over the old first take any day, man. I mean, I like, I like

what Steven A. Smith does. And you know, obviously I'm at ESPN, so I got a lot of but but just just straight if I'm talking like straight, like if I'm a them two right there together, that they're dynamic. It's been gold yeah, you know for a while. But like I said, I just I think he see Shannon sees it, the world sees it like Skip is just really really feeling himself on a disrespectful tip of late and just I just don't think people are going to

continue to put up with that. So now you were a part of The Jump, which was one of my favorite NBA shows of the I mean probably since I've been an adult, because it reminds me of like it just reminded me like when I was a kid, there was like dope NBA shows like Inside Stuff and you know, different. It didn't feel like a generic NBA show. And obviously, uh, you know, you guys brought Rachel over to Showtime Sports, which is where you guys have your podcast. You had

her on the show. You guys had her back. What that was going through that situation and kind of seeing your friend go through a situation which you know, the cancel culture shit kind of rears its head and their context gets thrown out the window. Nuance gets thrown out the window. Yeah, I mean, it's it's just unfortunate because you know, you you're you're in the business in the business.

It's a dirty business, you know what I mean, And when you kind of know, when you find out what happened, it's just like oh ship, damn, you know, and and then there's proof of that's how it happened, but it still got played out a whole nother way, just like damn. That's you know, it's it's a cold game. But you know, for any of you guys, go check out that Rachel Nichols episode on All the Smoke on Showtime YouTube and it'll just kind of show you, well, you guys cut

a lot out too, Am I wrong? Because it was kind of short? Yeah, no, it was. It was you know, it was crazy because you know, obviously you know my thing is, you know, I'm also employed by You're on both sides. I mean, so I'm mumbo. So it's not like I'm ever going to play a corporate type role. But if it's just like I can't show that I'm like on like hosting, I can't let you just throw dirt, yeah yeah, because that makes it reflection on me. So I'm you know, I'm gonna keep business, but I'm also

gonna keep it real. And I had a lot of love for Rachel, you know what I mean. But you know what was crazy was I had to talk to some ESP people after that, and it wasn't nothing like crazy. It was just more you know, kind of give us

a heads up. But I felt like, you know, if if if Rachel's truth, if her telling her truth on my show was going to cost me my job, there, I would have took that right because that's how to me, how dope she was, how opening she was, how how important and instrumental she was to me and stacked in particular, But guys like t mac paul, all these people like she really kind of just really showed us the ropes on that on that jump show, you know what I mean.

So once I found out like what really happened, was just like damn, this is this is sticky. But at the same time, like I feel like I got to let my sister talk and if it's going to cost me much was dope, which was dope because a lot of people wouldn't do that. Yeah, if it's going to cost me my job, it's going to cost me my job. But you know, to me, her truth is important because she's a good person, you know what I mean. So we're definitely happy to have her over at you know,

Showtime now, which is dope. You know, we're continuing to build a beautiful little ecosystem over there with her, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, you know myself, Stack. You know, we got guys coming in and out. So we got t Max, so we got AI. We got a lot of cool little like I said, like if if if if uh companies played like pickup games with like talent, our ship would be over like we got. Yeah, you guys got

all these Hall of favors. It would be crazy if you guys actually got like, yeah, let's run run vershow I'm playing the show Time so ESPN, you know Verse, Showtime or Fox or whatever it was. So you know, Perko average five points a game for ESPN money. You know, if per can get up and down the court, big fellow, you know what I I mean. He just tore his squad from slipping and everything, so he's he's getting healed up. I don't know if Perk got any any any points

in them, yo. What we got to stop the interview real quick to tell you about our family over at my bookie. That's right, lots going on in basketball, right, now, lots going on in the NFL playoffs are about to start, super Bowls coming up, so much to gamble on. Let's win some money. Go to my bookie right now. If you sign up for a new account my bookie dot ag,

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So go to my bookie right now, sign up for an account. Let's get back to the interview. Yo. Let me ask you this working with Paul Pierce when he went live, because I was watching that shit would he went live? And it was it was amazing, It was it was amazing because I was like, because I remember like being like twenty one twenty two DJ and Scott Steale. Paul Pierce would always be at the club, having himself a good time, great guy, like but I remember is

great energy, great energy. But I just remember seeing that ship and being like this is the This feels like if the Boondogs was on right now, they they would somehow parody Paul Pierce being at like being at a house party with strippers. All has fun, all has fun, you know, but it's just like it takes us back obviously it doesn't get more Disney, you know what I mean.

Like Disney is under you know, ESPN is of the Disney umbrella, so we always kind of have to be mindful of mindful of it, you know what I mean. And although you know it was just I think I just think it was just a lot at once. It was so you know what I mean, Because I've had conversations when I've renegotiated my deal with ESPN talking about you know, I'm a cannabis advocate, I have a company of the company shout to seven Leaves, thank you, shout out seven Leagus. Sometimes I'm on you know, my my

Instagram smoking. But I'm also a coach of father all this kind of strang I mean, so I'm a bit is. It's a business to me, you know what I mean. So I've had to have those conversations, but it was just like Paul, shit was just like a perfect storm, I guess. So, yeah, a lot of different things and unfortunately, man, it didn't end well. It's crazy because like back in the day when you were playing, obviously they would be testing for weed, right, so like marijuana was frowned upon

in the league. And what were what were you actively smoking? Yeah, man, I smoke my whole sauce. I started smoking, uh like eighth grade to ninth grade summer, So that was your starting point. You smoked throughout the whole your whole concent So what were ways you were dodging the tests. So when I first got in the league, like they used to do one team drug test in the preseason, so they would test everybody in one day. It was what

it was. Everyone knew to you know, stay clean for that test and then you could you know, motherfuckers had blunts or joints in the car since we got down with practice. It's amazing. But then it you know, it started, it went to four random so it was just like a real job to stay So I would always stay up, like maybe every six to eight months, I would stock

up on these. I'd go to go to I can say it now because it's not legal, So I go to G and C and I just tell them like yo, and they'd always recognize it, like what's the best drink to clean out you know the detox stuff? Yeah, yeah, and they would. I would be up front with them, and it was never shipped. It was out whatever we could see here. No, my cousins are on probation. You used to always have to go and get that ship and then drink a bunch of it. So it was

always underneath the counter. So like my test day, So I used to pay my trainers a little bit of bread to just kind of give me a heads up, like hey, uh, you know, because at first they would say the names, so we would really know who's coming, you know, but later they just it was when they were coming. They wouldn't say who was getting tested until

you got there. So every time I got that morning call, which everyone would get the morning call, like hey, drug test today, you know, be ready name, you get the names and you get here, I had to prepare like

as if it was me. So even though it wasn't me, every time I had to prepare, and that shit is tough, Like you had to wake up hella early, drink this whole little thing and it's nasty as fuck, and then drink like three or four waters and just keep paying like you had to pee like three, four or five times. And then once you pee that much like you're your ship is a kind of a it's clear, like you have a window of like how long it's you know, your pee is clear, like six to eight hours. It's crazy.

It's crazy because like I never thought as a kid, you'd see the day were like an active NBA player like KD. Right, it's like involved in a marijuana company. That's what I said, I, you know, like a lot of people took a lot of chances. You know, I got caught twice. You get caught three times, you're suspended for five games and everyone knows about it. So I got caught twice in my fifteen years. And but also like you're allowed to admit yourself to the program as

well if you know you're gonna fail. One time, I didn't have my drink and they got me. I was just I was slipping. So I called the dudes right there, like, yo, I'm about to get tested and I know I'm gonna fail, and they will. They allow you to come into the rehab program. And you gotta think about all the money the NBA took from people back then, people's careers. The on the flip side, they'll you know, they'll shoot us

with tour it all. They'll give us any kind of painkiller we can ask for, as much as we need. And I'm sure football is even worse. And it's just like they want to pump us full of that, but not the actual anti inflammatories that aren't addicted. They want to find us and suspend us. And some people who lose their career, you know, over something that that can

help us now that something that's legal now as well. Yeah, because if you think about the downside of any painkiller, it's it's masking one thing and causing problems in another area, you know what I mean. So it's just that temporary get you back out their relief that they need to make money. When you look at like, because we always hear that the I mean, you obviously played not too long ago, five years ago, right, what twenty seventeen was your last year? Was that the year you want to

ring with the Warriors? Right? Yeah? And we hear about you. You kind of played through a whole era then then kind of you know, I feel like twenty thirteen fourteen is when the NBA really started to go heavily towards

the three. But who's somebody who gives you, like when you came into the league energy, Like just someone who's tough, someone who's playing right now, Who's I just like guys to play hard because I think obviously the game has changed so much that like the game is continuing to grow, and it's because it's it's more offensive, you know what I mean, Like you know, seventy eight to eighty two, I mean the Thunder put up one fifty last night

against the Celtics. I mean, these low defensive, grinding games they used to get don't sell. You know, people when they want they turn on TV or they watch it on their phone. They want to see dunks, they want to see threes from having on. Can you imagine that the Spurs and Pistons were in the finals in twenty

twenty one, people would kill themselves. It wouldn't work. So I say all that to say, there's like, it's kind of like the guys that played like me are kind of like the last of a dying breeze, you know what I mean, the three and D someone in forcers, tough, you know, glue guys. You know, guys like Pat Bev, guys like PJ tuckerj Yeah, I mean we talked about Jay Crowder. Jay Crowder, you know, Jay crowds in a similar role like great guy, like great locker room guy,

great guy O g Vett. So the game kind of has has changed. So I mean, but to me, I'm not one of those guys like, oh man, they don't play defense or not, like I appreciate what it is, you know what I mean, Like these fucking kids are so talented. Man, these kids are super skilled, talented, athletic as can be, and they're just you know, they're they're they're in their way, they're taking games to the new level. So I love it when I always because I'm I mean,

I grew up a Jordan fan. I obviously was a Suns fan, but I put my I love Jordan more than I love the Sons as a kid, but I am kind of on the Lebron side of the goat convo. I'm not mad at that, and that's just because I look at who he played in the finals. I feel like he went up against the Warriors all those years, he went up against the dynasty of Spurs through Detroit. He had to go through Detroit, who just want to ring to get to the finals. Boston, he had to

go through Boston. I think I think we also got to think about, like, you know, who he was, who he had on that Cavaliers team in O five when when they went to the was it O seven? Also? Was it all seven or O five when they went to the finals it was against the Spurs. But you know, I think that like he went went through the thunder with Katie Russ and James Harden, I'm not man. I

to me. I just think that the league's talent pool is so much more higher than it was when Jordan and and of course Jordan had to go through the Pistons and and and you know there was Larry Bird and Magic Johnson and those guys. But I just think the talent pool, like if I I love watching every team right now, I have lead pass, there's not a team that I'm not interested in because they got a

couple of guys that can go. Yeah, I'm like, oh the Pistons around, well, Kate Cunningham's out, but I'm like, oh, I want to see Ivy, I want to see uh Bay. Like there's like no, I definitely get it. And when when I was a kid, like the Clippers like sucked, like they really sucked. But even the teams that aren't good are still fun to watch and have good foot.

Right now, it's crazy, it's crazy. I mean yeah, So what was the question that I was going to say, Like, do you feel like the talent because you you played through so many, like fifteen years, do you feel like the talent pool nowadays is just off the charts deeper than it's ever been or is that just recency bias because we're watching basketball. I think the I think the skill level might be as high as we've ever seen it.

Uh talent. You know, you think back to the you know, late eighties and early nineties and then I don't even want to disrespect no Air because every year I had talent. But yeah, I'm thinking, like you know, young Mike in that in that era, there was there was a lot of motherfuckers in that era. But I think often, you know, we just we're kind of prisoners of of now and what we've seen of like you know what I mean.

So obviously there's a lot of talent on on both sides, but I feel like the skill level, the athleticism, all this shit is just it's it's it's continues to grow. I think like back in the day, like the Cavaliers were like a big deal for the Bulls to go against with Craig Elo and Brad Daughtry or whatever the fuck his name was. I used to play with them one NBA jam when I was But I'm like, none of the like, none of like nobody's gonna be Like both of those guys are all time greats. Nobody's saying.

I mean, they were good at the time, but I think now and I'm just like, yo, Like if you look at all three of the All NBA teams every year, it's like fuck, like the fact like Katie can get left off because he was injured. It's just like the fact Damian Lillard is like not in the top ten right now. I think the game is just continued to evolve. Yeah, because DA looks like an all time great point guard,

no question, no question. But back to my original point, like, I don't any like to me, it's it's it's MJ. And there's no odor. But in the these three, I can live with arguments for either of them, MJ, Cobe and Mike as far as to me, those are the you said, MJ Cob and Mike Cob and Lebron excuse me, MJ Cob and Lebron. Like to me, I can see Jordan being one. I can see some people have Cob

number one, some people have Lebron number one. You know, I could see to me, those three guys are with all due respect everyone else at the top of the pyramid. You know, you hear guys like you know and you never want to disrespect legends or people that come before you. But I just feel like some of those older older players, like when you talk about the top seventy five lists, those older players that were like foundational for the league and and and yeah, like almost like the meaning to

the league outweighs their actual talent. Yeah. I mean, to me, like, there's no way you can leave a Dwight Howard or Vince Carter or Tracy mcgree the Dwight. The Dwight thing's crazy. Yeah, sure he was the most he was the best center

for ten years. Yeah. So it's just like there's so much stuff that you know to me because like you said, the town level was so much on a night to night basis better than it was, you know back in the fifties, sixties, you know, coming into the seventies, it was just like a lot of these current guys that got left off. You look at it, it's just like, no, those guys really weren't better than these guys are left

off with even close. Yo, you had a full circle moment winning a ring and ending your career with the Warriors, obviously being a part of the We Believe run. Was I mean that shit? I know, you guys didn't get out of the second round, but getting out of that first round against Dirk and the Mavericks was so crazy and that team was just so much fun to watch. But can you take me to that championship run. I know, you know at that point you were a veteran on

the team. But how high was the animosity between the Warriors and the Cavaliers Because I had Emon on and he said it was He's like that shit was up for real. He's like the group chats were active, we were. It just felt like it was because you know, they had gone to battle several times, you know, four, you know what I mean. And then you know Cleveland got one. I think at the twenty the Lawyers had had two for the two or three maybe two was the third

and one one more. So it was intense, you know, for me personally, you know, it was crazy because so I leave, I sign a you know, three year deal with Sacramento thinking that all right, you know, just finish. I'm gonna go finishing, finish up at home. We got a new arena, maybe make the playoffs and you know, you know, get ready for my transition. So I wasn't triven with that, and so then the King's trade DeMarcus Cousins at the at during the All Star break, like

while he's down the podium the Pelicans. Yeah, he gets told, he gets traded. So you know, we're to the point where they're trying to go younger. You know, I'm talking to management like I'm too old to try to rebuild, like, you know, help me out. Yeah, let me get up out of here, you know what I mean. And they were on the same vibe, so yeah, release from there, but they still had to pay me, uh, you know,

the rest of my contract because guaranteed. And then really literally simultaneously when that happened, kd gets hurt for Golden State when they're in DC, hyper extends his knee. So you know, I get a call from their team to you know, Kti's down. You know, we're gonna need you to come out. I was like, shit, easy call, you know what I mean. Not too far from home, nah, you know, So I went out there. You know the first night, you know, I played like twenty twenty five minutes.

So it was dope because it was just like I've never played on a team that had so many starts. But it was just selfless, Like going to work every day was dope. The energy in the weight room after everything was just damn, I see why you motherfuckers be winning all this shit, Like it's fun to be here, you know, like Ego lists basketball dope, so it's crazy. No I go out there playing. I'm playing anywhere, you know,

twenty twenty two to twenty four minutes a game. In the very first game KD comes back is about a week before the playoffs, or maybe week to ten days before the playoffs, and the game he comes back, I sprained my ankle and nearly break the worst sprain of

my fucking career, and I was out. I kept trying to come back, and it just I wasn't ready, And by the time I felt halfway decent, I'm just like, damn, I want to try because it's you know, we're heading to the finals, like it was a Western Conference finals, like we're already eight and oh so as a vet, I knew I wasn't. You know, you don't a role player is not going to really able to jump in, and you know, if you're a start coming back into

different story. So I just kind of had to, you know, stay in shape, just in case it needed me stay ready, and then you know, talk to guys when I saw stuff, you know what I mean, even though you know I was new there, those guys like again that you know, they respected, you know, my body of work and how hard I played. So I wasn't someone who was overstepping my bounds. But there'd be times where at any time,

you know, that's the thing. Cool thing about it, where I having that conversation with Draymond, had you know, long conversations with Clay, you know, me and Kadi used to get down after games, you know, burn a few and just talk about the game, you know what I mean. So it was just like that kind of og positivity and ways to look at things. And and that team ended up winning championship, you know what I mean. But yeah, they man handled the Cavaliers that year, that's for sure. Yeah. No,

that that was even though those teams were chicos. You I mean, once Katie got healthy and Steph and play and Pray and Iggy and I just don't like, like, if Katie would have just stayed on the Warriors, who knows how many more rings, I mean, it would have been ugly. I was so I was actually very happy that he left because I felt like the balance of power readjusted in the league. For a couple of years, it was more about duos and not trios anymore. So it was like, I like the way it is now.

There's parody in the Western Conference specifically, there's so much. Ye, there's just so much. I just mean, like if you look at like the Sons are the eight seed right now, but they're four and a half games behind the one seed. I mean, yeah, you can make a five game win, seven game winning streak and you know, jump up four spots, so you can go in a three or four game lose the streak and slide down three or four spots.

Like the West is super tight, so it's dope. Hey, what ups bout leg cav here to stop the interview and tell you about bluech You, yes, do you have a dick? Does your husband have a dick? Maybe? Does your boyfriend got a dick? Does your wife have a dick? Who knows? It could be harder? I'll tell you that. Yeah, blue Choo will get your dick real hard to kick off that new year. You know what I'm saying. If you want your dick harder than advanced trigonometry senior year

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barely ever happened. I don't I can't remember when it's happened unless Larry Bird got three, and I think there was a there was an argument to be made that Harden could have got it again. There's an argument if Giannis could have got it last year, the year before

or whatever. A lot of people are saying, Jokic motherfucker man, yeah man, and he's built like me, so like right now, we have these two white dudes that are kind of just like kind of like normally built, like flabby white dudes who are like, it's just kind of crazy, Like, yeah, I don't even you know. I saw Bill Simmons talking about Jokic and he said that he's the funnest player since Larry Bird some shit, he said. Some shit. A

lot of people are pissed off about. But like you do this for a living, you analyze the game, like how special is Jokic and how special is the Now. I know how special Luca is because we should have drafted him over DeAndre Ayden and I came sick to my stomach every time, But like, how special are these two uh, white Caucasian unicorns in the league? Right now.

It's fucking crazy. They're incredible each. I mean obviously Jokic first, you know his ability to do it all from his size, you know, his length, his basketball a Q. I mean, there's no holes. There's no holes in his game. I mean he's okay defensively, yeah, I mean yeah, in a league where defense doesn't really matter. There's no holds what I mean. So to me, there's no real holes in his offensive game. And then Luca. I think Luca's gonna go down as an all time great me too, man,

I mean, he's only twenty three years old. The numbers, the video game numbers in year four, I'm like, if you go year four like one through four, maybe Wilts can hang with him. They showed a comparison of him and Lebron after like a certain amount of games, maybe a month ago, at a certain amount of games. We want to say, how many games, I don't remember, but Luca was like two points better to a couple of rebounds better. And it'sist better than Labron, you know, through

that same span. So uh, and it's scary because Luca's only twenty three, you know what I mean. We literally just talked about this shit. On ESPN today, Like guys don't really kind of hit their peak into twenty eight, nine thirty. You know, Lucas motherfucking he ain't even get it shape yet. That's what's crazy. It's like a batch it if he wants to get He's in better shift he was last year. Yeah, he's in better shape than

he was, so, I mean he's learning the game. But it's I don't think we've ever seen someone so offensively what's the word brilliant? I mean, from the amazing passes he makes to how he can score from every single he's a dog too. He's big. Yeah, he's bigger than he's bigger than me. He got that fucking attitude. Yeah, because he's seen it. I mean he's at thirteen, Luca was playing basketball. What motherfuckers was drinking beers and smoking

cigarettes at halftime, you know what I mean? Like Luca Benner pro since he was in seventh like for like my kids in eighth grade, like losing Benner prosins he was in seventy you know, technically seven. You know, I just saw I just saw a picture of him and Russell Westbrook from like twenty seventeen when he was like a kid. Yeah, yeah, he's been thrown in the fire. So he was built for I mean he was built

for this. Talk about growing up in Sacramento. Sacramento, I feel like finally has had like a lot of dope, big uh recognition in the hip hop world with my guy Mazzi Free Mazzie. But then you know, growing up there was like brother Lynch Hung and Cibo and and I used to listen to a lot of even though they're not from master P in high school. Yeah, Sacramento is like one of those that is like super active, like surprise you. It's a very active place because when

you fly in, all you see is like fields. So people like this motherfucking caws and then you know that the fans go crazy with their low cowbo. So there's a real misconception that Sack Sacks got a lot of smoke out there. It definitely does a lot of smiling, and it's not anything to brag about, like it's really dangerous. Yeah, between like Stockton and Sacramento, it's a there's bodies, bodies are dropping, Yeah dude, I mean so it's just like

it's it's you know, Sacramento is different. You know, Luckily coming from you know, the Bay area. Uh, my parents were able to put some you know money together to not necessarily get us, to get us in a in a better area, right, you know, like my cousins and my aunt was killed in a parkat slash left and the gutter, like my cousins that living Sack were in like in the heart of aunt. Yeah, my little sister,

you know what I mean. So I would always so my parents, you know, were able to do better by the time we were able to move up to Sack. So they would always put me in predominantly white schools. And I never understood why. I never understood. Used to hate it because all my neighborhood friends were mixed, like Mexican blacks, some Asians, some white kids. But I never got to go to school with those kids, so I

always had to go to different schools. But you know, now getting older and finished, you know, looking back, I mean, it's just it made me the chameleon I am because I could. You mean, I was going to Oak Park and all those things. You know, I grew up in the Oak Park YMCA, you know center, and you know, so I could be there and then I could be and you know the nicest part of Sacramento with you know, a bunch of white kids, you know what I mean.

So I saw so much diversity, you know, at a younger age that it just you know, allowed me to kind of be able to move and slide in different rooms. Now I feel like you do. I feel like you do a great job of that. Now. I feel like, just like the vast, like diverse cast of people you guys interview on your podcast, it's like, yeah, I know, it's been growing, man, it's been fun, you know what I mean. I remember when you guys did the Kobe interviewed. That was one of your first was it like one

of the first five or six? It felt like it was early number ten. Yeah, it was one of the earlier ones. You obviously played with Kobe. What years were you with Kobe? I was with Cobe I think the eleven, thirteen or fourteen, so that was obviously kind of some rough Laker years. No, well, no, so I came right after they won to I came when they were going for a three p so Phil's last year. So you were there when okay, okay, so you were there kind of like the end of like the peak. Yeah, the

run was over unfortunately. So you played with Lamar on that team. Yeah, Lamar, Lamar pale buying him. Uh what's the locker room like with Matt Barnes and Lamar owed him at the same time, Funny and Test was in that mother and run our tests. So like people don't know Koke talk big ship, Like I was like right when I went to team, because I'm someone that just keeps everybody loose. I talked Matt Barnes, run our tests, Kobe Bryant, and Lamar owed him in the same locker round. Shit, amazing.

It was fun, you know what I mean. And you know he used to poke fun to everybody like nobody was safe, you know, and everybody get fun poked at them, you know what I mean. So it was those Laker days were fun, man, really fun. Yeah, what was because I mean, Kobe is not going on anyone's podcast A lot of people have podcasts. Kobe didn't do a lot of interviews, so you guys obviously had a friendship that

stuck with him and resonated with him. That was a very tough loss for the world man's particularly La you know obviously you know the world lost, but for La for sure. But yea, La lost a superhero, you know what I mean? Like LA got to watch Kobe grow, you know, as a as a seventeen year old boy.

Come to La. What was the one thing that you feel like people don't necessarily know about Kobe that you know being around him as much as you were as fun like He's not like it was funny because he used to be on the bus and talking shit back and forth, and he'd be talking shit, talking crazy and

everyone be busting up. And I remember one time taking on the bus like, yea, why don't you show the rest of the world this this side of cod Yeah, looked up and he's like, I can't show these motherfuckers this, you know what I mean? So COPD the one thing like cop was cool, like talk big ship. Was there anybody who was too sensitive for his ship talking on the team. He used to go at Pal pretty hard. And it wasn't the power was sensitive, but he would just that was just why I think with his way

of pushing Palace buttons. But he used to go at Pal. I'd be like, damn, Cope, come on, Pal, let's go and go handle it, you know what I mean. So, but but Cobe was one of those dudes. It was just he He would run through a wall. So he wants you to play as absolutely as hard as you can, have no fear in your heart, and go to war with him. Yeah, I feel like Cope's the kind of guy that's like, not gonna ask anybody of anything that he wouldn't do himself. And I think most great leaders

are like that. It's like, yeah, I ain't gonna ask you to do nothing I'm not gonna do. When he talks, you listen. He doesn't talk much. Used to he used to hiss when he wanted the ball. When he started hissing, you better give him the ball or or make it or he's gonna you know, I mean, stare a fucking hole through your body. But dude, just work hard, man. His work ethic to me was second to none. You were a part of another iconic team in La Lop City years of the Clippers was special. I remember when

Tiger Redd Rock City. Yeah, that was we took La by story. It was dope because obviously, you know, I'd come literally come right from the Lakers, you know what I mean, so to see and you were you were a starter on that team for most of that run. I mean you were very important. I tell people like, I won the championship with Golden State and played with rock Stars over there, but there's nothing in the world

like being the Laker. So when I went down the hallway to become a Clipper, it was just, you know, a team that historically had been just terrible got awful, even though it's in the same building, same city. Terrible. And they had had you know, rays of hope every once in a while with d Miles and Q. And then when they first came in out brand you know the Sam Pacel Patino run they had, but Tim Thomas. Yeah, that Lop City team just captured know the NBA by storm.

You know, we won our first the Clippers first ever pred Division title. We were beating the breaks off the by like record numbers, Like we were beating the Lakers by plus thirty. Oh no, it was crazy. It was crazy, and you guys were stacked. I mean we were d Like my first year, I think our started lineup with CP, JJ, Kuran, Butler, Blake, and DJ and then off the bench they had Eric Bledsoe,

Jamal Crawford, me lamar Odom, Jesus Ronnie Terry Off. No, I'm forgetting some people like I don't even remember lamar Odom being back on the Clippers. I don't even remember that Grant Hill on that team. I remember Grant. I remember Grant. I remember we were like Sports Illustrated voted us the best bench. So they did like a big old spread on our team, and I'm like, yeah, we used to give our starters work in practice, like for real.

But no, that team was city was crazy. Help me understand as a Suns fan, who has to root for Chris Paul? He said, who has Christmas? No? I mean, Chris Paul is one of the greatest point guards of all time, and I was ecstatic when we got him. But that being said, the last couple of years have been like just the absolute biggest disappointment of my life, of my life, all forms of my life, personal relationship, family,

the Suns. So they went to the finals, They went to the finals, were up two oh to the Bucks, gave that back real quick, and then they lost to Dallas and then then we lost. We got destroyed. We got absolutely embarrassed by the Mavericks. Shortly after, Alvarado gave us some work in that first round series against the Pelicans. But give me like the Chris Paul thing. Because I have friends that are close to the son's team and you played with them. We always hear about him and

Blake didn't necessarily get along. Like what do you think it is about CP that seems to be it? He cause he goes to teams and they get good right away. I mean he took that team, the thunder team that okay, see team that was crazy. I think Chris is a throwback point guard from a standpoint, and he's not going to tell you what you want to hear. He's going to tell you what you need to hear. And I think sometimes his delivery is off, but what he's saying

nine times out of ten is right. It's a delivery thing, his delivery. But again, he's one of them, like you know, not it wouldn't even be so much cussing. It would just be like he's talking. Chris is a talker, you know what I mean. So he's always going to kind of tell you he's a quarterback. He's always going to kind of tell you what he wants, what DC is, what he needs like all that shit, and me being you know, I'm you know, I was always older than him, but just from a era where you can you know,

you can yell at me. I have to yell back at you. I will, but you know I'm out here. I'm with you, bro. And I just think the disconnect sometimes with CP and younger players is just his delivery because young players have been kind of so coddled in this new era where you know, you say something wrong, some of these motherfuckers that get you fired. Oh it's

we're in the middle of this cancel culture shit. So it's just like, you know, these younger players have been given so much so fast, and I say they're not talented, They've just been given a lot fast. So it's just like when someone who's kind of a throwback personality like is barking at you, some motherfuckers don't like it. And Blake Griffin wasn't a fan. Yeah, I just yeah, I just think, yeah, I can't say they weren't. I mean

when we were on, we were on. I think I think you guys are one of the prime examples of like people forget the injuries that happened in your guys' playoff runs, getting hurt, blatting, hurt, there was like just some timely injuries that were just like again like it almost like the basketball gods are like, no, you're the Clippers, go fuck yourself crazy that I mean to me because

there was a year you guys beat the Spurs. Year. Yeah, there's two there to me through those two years where you know, we were a top two or three team in the NBA. Hands down, we just couldn't get out of our own ways. Hey, we got to stop the interview real quick to tell you about our family at Hard Dean. That's right, Hard Dean, Las Vegas. The craziest dispensary in the world, the number one dispensary in the United States, let alone in Las Vegas. All Right, maybe

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podcast from Hardin in Vegas with Young Gravy. Oh yeah, it's going down all right, let's get back to the interview. Yeah it's kind of crazy man. Yeah yeah. Shout out to CP. Yeah, where do you want to take all the smoke? Because you guys have done so much in such a little amount of time. I feel like you guys have really put a stake as just the premiere basketball podcast. You know, I think you guys do it. In my opinion, you guys are the best. Appreciate that, man,

Thank you first and foremost. Continue to inspire, you know what I mean. I want people to know that like we could tell our own stories now, you know, similar to what you're doing and how you are inspiring people in your space, like other people have always told our stories, and now the fact that we can tell our stories and articulate, you know, how we really feel and what's going on, instead of happening to hear from someone else, you could hear from us. So first and foremost we

want to continue to do that. But then just you know, create great content. You know, I think that you know the secret to our successes. Like that's really my brother, I mean, so, like we talk real shit to each other and say shit to each other that other people can't, you know what I mean. So we always keep it

light and always joking on each other. You know, when you come to All the Smoke, you know, when you get there, we're most likely smoking, listening to music, eating good food, taking shots, you know, I mean, like kickback. So we wanted just to create a really cool environment when you come fuck with us, that you just feel comfortable enough to kind of let your guard down, you

know what I mean. So I think that's what we've been able to create with All the Smoke, where you know, the people say all the time, like man I've never told nobody this, You're like, damn, they feel comfortable enough to time. It kind of reminds me of like the athlete version of like Drink Champs, because people go in there like, Yo, Norieg is our guy, We've known him

for twenty years. Everyone's having fun, like you kind of let your guard down because you're in a trusted yeah environment, you know, you know, you know, they know we're not trying to do We don't want to go viral for the wrong reason, you know what I mean. Like, my whole goal is always just to humanize our guests, like we know why Steph and KD and Kobe were great, and Shannon Sharp and Snoop were great, Like what are they like doing other ship? How did they become who

they became? So I always just want to show people the other side of you know, some of your favorite people, and you know, we've you know, we found lightning in a bottle with this with this show, you know, So I just you know, I think, just think the evolution. I just we just started season four and I told our team, like, you know, we got to continue to elevate, So we just did our We did a live show in December with Magic Johnson at the Beverly Hill and

shout Out the Beverly Hilton. So we did a live show with a live audience. So that'll be dropping I think next week, which is dope. But I just think live shows being on linear television as well as YouTube getting on that real Showtime platform and and and really kind of continuing to just spread our wings. Man. It's been fun, Like, you know, Showtime, A big shout out to Showtime and Malcolksh's kind of their in house production.

They just allowed me to create a lot of other and do a lot of other things outside of doing all the smoke. You know, They've they've allowed me to bring talent in creating shows, producing show Like I'm doing a bunch of different things about that umbrella. So I think it's obviously very beneficial for both of us. So it's been fun. Yeah. Do you feel like because you have a documentary coming out about your life? Right? No,

So we did. It was just a short a thing called Revolution that just dropped on Apple, Amazon, all those kind of things, and it was just kind of a snibit of you know, life after basketball what I was kind of doing at the time. I was bored right when I retired because I didn't really know what I wanted to do next. So we kind of just started filming my activism and uh, you know, my street activism, you know, my cannabis activism, fatherhood, like just what life

was like as I was transitioning from the NBA. So we started shooting that like a five years ago. We kind of just wrapped a bow on it and put it out. So it was just a kind of a snibit of what's going on in my life, like speak on the cannabis activism front, because obviously, man, in this country, there's still a lot of people who are incarcerated for

for some for weed, you know what I'm saying. And uh, you know, obviously sometimes we live in California, and I think sometimes we forget that not everywhere is like here. There's still a serious amount of states that you can't even get medicinal weed in and it's you know, it's it's it's kind of fucked up, you know, and what

what are you doing in that space? You know? I have the cannabis company that I'm a part owner of of Seven Leaves up in Sack and we just we were we have a big grow out there, so we distribute to you know, pre pretty much all over California with that. I'm a part of uh Chris Weber's got uh something called Players Only. He's got you know, he's got a couple hundred million in cannabis funding that he's been doing some different players with. So I'm doing some

stuff over there, you know. But I really, to be honest with you, I haven't done a ton lately because

I've been so busy doing media. Like when I first came out of the NBA, like cannabis is everything in my advocacy, you know, flying out to New York and talking to the nv p A and the NBA about you know, not testing these guys, and like I was really trying to let people know like this plant can help, and at the time knowing who smoked and like, you know, if the world ever knew that knock on wood and he's announcing now that you know, Kevin Durant is you know,

listening to medicaid and it was just like they would lose their mind. I've blown down the biggest Phoenix sun of the last twenty years. Pause no, fifteen. I will tell you who it is. But yeah, yeah, Steve nashould be twenty so yeah. Yeah. So it's just like, you know, everybody's using it. So my advocacy was really heavy on the social the social impact side, where you know, we're trying to have you know, black and brown people have more access to me in lives to to get those licenses.

But it just became so corporate and unfortunately, you know, dominated by white folks just like everyone else. But you know, you know, the industry is it's just so saturated now, it's super saturated. The wead game is so saturated. Everyone has a fucking strain and a lot of all the strands are recycled and it's just your shit is just white labeled with some some other ship. It's put in

a different bag. It is kind of crazy. It feels like it does feel like the weed game is kind of because I'm pretty involved a lot in the weed industry as well, and you know, there's so many like if you go to dispensary, there's a lot of that week that's in the same like three or four bags,

you know that. And then I mean I remember, like I've always been carrying weed, you know, not to just luckily I've been good, but before it was legal, or I'd always because I would always take away when we travel because you couldn't find good weed in other cities. I mean, now you're you go to your fine, you just find a dispenser. You're gonna find something good, something decent. Yeah, so it's just like it it's out there. So it's just it. It got saturated. But you know me, I

just stay in my lane, smoke my seven leads. That's all over. You are somebody who, obviously, congratulations you just got engaged to your lady, which is amazing. You've always been somebody who's been on the forefront of letting everybody know being a good follower is a good thing to show off because I feel like you're you're you're you're

you're a great father man man. But you also kind of had an era of your personal life on TV, which you know, I'm sure there's pluses and there there's gifts and curses of that, but like, is that something that was like because you know, we all we all think about the Derek Fisher thing and all that. We won't get into that, but like, was that something that you kind of went through for this new relationship to kind of kind of keep something well you you learn

on the fly, you know what I mean. It's it's uh, you know, reality TV it was kind of new back then. It was very new. You know, there's there's Flavor of Love and maybe one O the Real World and then yeah, but you guys were the first. I feel like you guys were like the first stuff that lane, like the basketball wise you know, franchise was was was new and it was crazy because my ex wife and I at the time, you know, just had twins. I just moved

to Phoenix. I was just that first year, like was that eight Yeah, And I remember my girl starts asking me, like, you know, Sean Shack's wife, you know, she's going to start the show and it's going to be us, you know, raising our families and stepping outside of your shadows and doing charitable work. Just like, nah, we don't need that. Yeah, Like we're rich. We got you know, we got two babies, we got two brand new babies. You know, we just

got to a new team. Let's just let's just so we went back and forth for months and it was just a no, no, no, And then they got shock on me, and Shock kept pressuring me, pressuring me and pressure me and pressuring me, and finally I just said, fuck it, all right, let's do it. And you know, the one positive from it was it opened the door to you know, this content space for me during that time and just kind of understanding seeing like, Okay, this

is how this this shit is made. But you know, it's not hard to make quality stuff and said that's not quality, but that's just not my taste stuff. But like I can really get in this space and start creating. So it kind of opened my eyes to that back then. But then it also crossed me over somewhat to a different audience for sure, you know what I mean, Like that basketball wise, I get sometimes women women will see me in the mall or somewhere like you're the guy

from Basketball Wives, aren't you. I'll be like, yeah, you know what I mean. So it's just like it kind of is what it is, but again a learning experience. But just realize at that point, once we had opened our personal life up to the world, that it would

never close again. We opened that book and you know, my ex and I we went through some shit and you know, we ended up divorcing and twenty fifteen and you know, twenty sixteen, it's finalized and you know, the fish shit happened and then you know, me and him made up and you know, now we're co parenting, But it was it took a long time to get to

that point. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think for anybody who's watching this who's gone through like a breakup, like what if you man co parenting to and being mature about it, it took takes a while to get to that point, right, man, absolutely, because sometimes you know, the kids are used, you know, weaponized against you, and it's it's it's tough, you know what I mean. But it's just I think at the end of the day, you know, you have to realize that it's bigger than

the parents. After that, you know, if you guys have decided to really be apart, it's bigger than y'all. And you know, the kids didn't ask to be brought into the situation, so you got to you know, and it's so common now unfortunately blended families or or you know,

fathers or motherless home. So learning the co parent you know, has taken a long time, and you're you're always learning to be honest with you but you know, the goal is to you know, be on the same page as much as you can with your ex, you know, for the sake of the kids in it. Again, it took us a long time to get there, you know, but we're finally there, and I it's just, you know, the

boys are thirteen now. When we split, they were ship That's pretty crazy because I just remember seeing your kids on TV and that, like the fact that they're that old now is like fun. They just turned fourteen. It doesn't feel like that was that long ago. Got mustaches, telling my girls and all kinds of shit like that. I feel like they were just babies. What are they like playing video games? Are they video games? Basketball? Girls? Shoot? Do they do the anime thing? A lot of kids

are an anime. They have their own podcast called the Barnes Boys. Check it out, Oh fire Ze, Like their shit is dope, Like you help them out with like production tips. So I started everything and then I took it over to the company that produces my stuff, Malca, and we've turned it into like where about to actually start season two? So that's dope. We got the YouTube channel going, Yeah Barnes Boys, Yeah, Barnes Boys YouTube. So

it's dope. So they're into that. They love basketball now and then in video games, so it's you know, and then I had a four year I have a four year old who's coming down the pipe, who's likely six or seven. He's gonna be a big ass defensive end. That's why I have my fiance. And then we have her daughter that's eleven, her son that's ten, and her son that's nine. So we bro we got Christmas is active?

Oh fuck, every day is fucking active? What Christmas? So we're we're four to fourteen and you know, six kids, six kids in the house at once. Crazy, it's turned up animal to eat me out of house and home. Hey, we got to stop the interview to tell you about our family at odds sucks. That's right, the most comfortable socks in the motherfucking world. Go to odd socksofficial dot com right now. Use that promo code Bootleg, and you'll save twenty percent off. Christmas time is a coming. And

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back to the interview. Oh my goodness, Yo, there was one of the more iconic moments that we always see when there's Kobe highlights is when you're on the Magic and you pump face him with the ball and he does not flinch. Talk talk to me about that game in that moment and what led up to that, and just kind of because he didn't flinch at all, and that was kind of, you know, like, you're naturally flinch. I don't care how tough you are. You flinch, Yeah, fu,

how tough you are. Everybody flinch is in that moment. First of all, I didn't realize how close it was to his face, but I just thought what I've always thought, he's a cold motherfucker. I like. So, I met Kobe in ninety eight. So he came to the Lakers in ninety six. I got to UCLA in ninety eight, and he was young, and so you know, well, document it's kind of an outcast on that team when he'll be younger.

So he used to be on our campus all the time, like eating, chilling, talking to people, working out, playing, picking up. So I you know, I've known Kobe on just to what's up level since I was eighteen years old, you know, and once I got in the league, it was just always I knew when I was at UCLA he used to sneak back into Polly and work out. I'm just like, yeah,

this motherfucker is gonna be him. Remember one time when he had a broken right hand, he would do a whole work I left handed, the whole thing like he was a left It was incredible. I'm just like, so, you know, got a chance to play with them. They were just always mutual respect, you know what I mean. He plays hard, I play hard. So we get to that situation with the Magic and Lakers. They had just

played in the finals the year before, yep. So that following year, it was like March getting close to the playoffs, and you know, we're both both sides looking good, so I'm thinking, like, hey, we're gonna play these motherfuckers and finals. So it was just a back and forth game and and and you know, guys that played against Cob would tell you like, not only is he a killer, but he's like he tries to mentally bully you and intimidate

you too. So he does all the sneak ship with the elbows and sports and held me and my sternaman and knocked the wind out of me that game, Like I caught a lot like he tried to. He was guarding me, and he tried to block the white shot from helpside and it came off the grim perfect and I caught a dunk tip and thats all was coming off with her, and this motherfucker eld with me from like my my growing area to my chest and right

underneath my chin and the rest right there. I'm like, you, bitch ass motherfucker, You're not gonna call nothing, huh like. So I just got to the point where I was gonna fight him. It was dope. We talked about it on my podcast. He wasn't budget. I wasn't budget. But long story short, we end up beating them that game. They go to finals, beat Boston. We lose to Boston in the Eastern Finals. Lakers beat Boston in the finals, and then are you on the Lakers the next year?

I'm a free agent the next that summer and the ship with Orlando fell through. So I was actually in tossed with pat Riley to go to the Heat and he's kind of telling me what's coming to the Heat. And that's when Bron and Chris Bosh and that's what he was telling me. Who are the crunch time lineup? But be and you know he said it would be you know me, Mike Miller, d Way, Bron and Bosh at im just like, yeah, all of us, six eight,

all of us do everything that could. And then out of the blue, I get a call on my phone from my number I don't have saved, and I really don't answer my phone anyway. For some reason, I just answered it and it was cold. Yeah, Hello, Yeah, what's going on? Its cold? I'm like, yeah, fuck, who is this? Yeah, that's me. I got your number form So so I was like, oh, Okay, what's happening. Who's you gonna do

next year? I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, you know, we just start going back and forth, and just like any anybody crazy enough to fuck with me, it's crazy enough to play with me. Do you want to be a Laker? I'm like, hey, motherfucking yeah. So, like three or four days after that, I was a Laker. Do you ever think back to like what would have happened if you went to the Heat? Oh? Man, I would have won too, Champ maybe three maybe three? Maybe

you would have been the difference against the Mavericks. Oh yeah, because I was someone who can you know, put some miles on dart Man. Yeah, never know. Yeah, I mean it's always but to me, it's you know, to get a chance to play, like I grew up a Laker fan. Yeah of course. Now help me out here. So you go to the Lakers. Is this around the time Dwight and Steve Nashville? This is I'm in the Clippers by then? Okay,

okay that makes sense. Yeah, okay, okay, come there. Yeah, and you know that unfortunately that situation didn't work out for them. You played with Dwight and I feel like, like you were saying earlier, I feel like Dwight somehow does not get a fair shake when we think about the best baby with oh Man, when he was with the Magic, Like we're talking about like all NBA leading every All Star Game. I mean they went to the finals, like Dwight beat lebron in the finals with the Eastern Finals.

Dwight in the Eastern Finals, That's what I mean. Yeah, but the most disrespect ever from someone who was a factor on a Lakers championship team a few years ago, like a couple of years ago, Like, yeah, yeah, it was incredible. What Dwhight does. He just rushed back from his back surgery, you know what I mean, he something that was supposed to take a year. I think he was back moving around in you know, four or five months.

He wanted, you know, to prove itself. Was so bad to the Laker fans, and he was never the same you know, the Dwhite I used to played to play for. I never felt more comfortable playing defense than I knew when Dwight I was behind me because he was someone that would lay you out or he can jump to the top of the backboard and block the shot and he was just so fucking strong too. So yeah, D White was a box. Uh, you're obviously a big hip hop guy. Give me your top five favorite albums of

all time? I don't. I won't go. Let me go people, Okay, give me your top five because you got Tupac on your hand. Yeah, I got Tupac and Nipsey on my hand. I'm gonna take Tupac and and and Biggie out of it. Okay, that's fair. Me. Those are my two all time favorites outside of that and that's and and anybody can say those two who do I listen to the most. I listened to jay Z, I listened to to Wayne, I

listened to Drake, I listened to Nipsy. It's my fifth gonna be it's probably gonna be a tie between like Rick Ross and Snoop. That's fair, that's fair. Yeah, that's not a bad five. What you funk with any of the younger ship because obviously there's my kids like I like Little Baby. I saw that there was a little there. Let me ask you, because you're a hip hop here, there was a debate. Obviously I know where I stand, but they said, uh, a little Wayne or Little Baby thing.

It's a little Wayne. I don't even think it's close. It's not even close. It's like, like, let's relax, a relax with all due respects, with all due respect. I love Little Baby and I love My Turn a great album. Everyone needs to fucking relax. Everyone needs to relax. I saw that tweet going viral. I'm like, guys, everyone needs to fucking relaxed for I didn't even comment on it, just because I knew that and I'm very and I'm very critical of a little Wayne. Everyone needs the fucking relax.

They're not in the same fucking conversation. Yeah, people, These Twitter people are fucking insane. I'll just be staying in my like I said, if I hear it out and about or you know, in the in the content space out here and my kids are telling me about it, but most of the time I'll be staying in my own you know. I mean, the the people I listed, I'd be kind of staying to them, Like heavy on Nip, Huge, just huge fan of Nip. Got a chance to meet

Nip when man. When I first came to the Lakers sold in two thousand and my brothers always put me on music. It was like you forty always at these Warriors games, there was this something that Okay, you know he was loyal. I love Forty. That's my guy. He was loyal to the soil. I just want to make sure he's keeping that energy because him and I argue all the time about sports. He's always from. He was always from. That's the one thing about the Bay not

to change subject. That was always dope was the Bay always show love like the like that we believe team we made history, but they had been bulleted. But it always the fans were always crazy. It always smelled like weed and oracle like the Bay was. That was such a crazy uh just it was what was it you? Michael Petrice, Baron Davis, They Rich, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Monte Ellis Beadrince b Drins that big tall mm hmm Germany from Lafia. He's from one of those fucking yeah

to drink his ass on boy. They used to call him Goose because he was in the club with the whole thing of Goose. When did you leave the Warriors eight nine, two and two thousand and nine. I was there two thousand and six seven. Monte Alis was coming off the bench on that team. When you say Monte was the most improved player that year, I think in the NBA. But he rotated from he went back and forth from starting coming off the bench. I started off. He was a bucket, man, Man was a killer. He

was a bucket. He was just a baby. But yeah, my table is nice. Me listen, man. I love the podcast. I love everything you're doing. I love watching you on TV. You do a great job. I feel like, like we were talking about earlier, Man, sometimes you'll see like people who are on TV and they got there because you know, just because you're the biggest day, don't mean you're great at talking about shit on TV. Let's just say that. I think we've realized that safe. Yeah, that's safe to say,

but it's dope to see, you know. I feel like you've done a great job of turning turning your second career into something that's that's on high integrity. And I just I mean to me and I'm always me, like JT said that one time and to me a residents so much like every room I'm rock in on me. Yep, you know, whether I'm at ESPN, I can't cuss as much as I normally tut. I'm still gonna be me, you know. I mean, I'm in every room, I walking I'm walking into NBC doing the King shit, I'm walking

into Showtime doing all the smoke. I'm doing stuff with ESPN, I've done stuff with Fox. Like I'm just always me, and I think that's kind of allowed me to, first of all, dispell any kind the notions you may have had about me, like, yeah, he's a dog, he's this is not just a competitor. And I like to fight. I don't like to fight when I'm over. But that's

just who I was as a player, you know. But as a as a as a man, as a father, as a business owner, as a as a as a as a mind, I'd like to say I kind of got it together. So it's just we got to smoke out. Stephen A. Yeah, he owes me to smoke out. Actually, And I feel like Richard Jefferson could use some fucking weed because he's he seems a little uptight. Listened him up? Does r J smoking mass? I don't know you should

find out. Shout out to r J. You of a even though I fuck with a su over u A. But yeah, man, who he who oh weight on nine on the Suns. That was Steve Nash, was that Robin was that Robin Lopez, Robin Lopez, Grant Hill, Rajah Bell That was the first year Shack was on the team, right when we traded from so Yeah, Rajah Bell was a dog too, was tough. Yeah, marche Stodamyer So that's the year Maris State that almost got his eye poked out, and the remember and didn't really play like half. We

had Terry Porter. Terry Porter's a new coach. Terry Port. Oh, I was able to get fired at All Star breaks. I remember that you fired after like not even I remember that Terry Porter was a terrible coach. You know what? Okay, did you play with Earl Watson at U c l A. Okay, he coached our sons for a little bit, right. A lot of people feel like he got a bad shake.

What do you think he did? I liked it and and the and the players resonated with him too, because I feel like they fired him like super quick and like, dude, he inherited a ship show with Eric Bledsoe didn't want to be there that it was Ryan McDonough was trash and yeah, it was it was under some racial tension that him went down with Sarvar. That's how he got fired. Did you catch any of the racial tension ship because you you played for Donald Sterling, right, Yeah, that I

was on that team. You were on that team and the Warriors in the playoffs and that was crazy, crazy Chris Paul has been on two of those teams now. But when you played for the Suns for that short stint, did you notice any of that type of like work environment or any of the No, because I wasn't you know what I mean, I wasn't really mixing with him, you know what I mean, Like, you know, obviously on the guys on the team, he's going to be cool with around, He's going to be cool. He's always he's

trying to be cool, you know. So I never really saw no smoke. I had just had a little bit of smoke with him once I left, and he toak some slictions me during the game and I told him I slaped the shit out of him, and he told him and I got fined. What was it like playing with Steve though? Sharp mind, hard worker, tough, tough. Yeah, Nash was a beast. I just think that he he just wasn't the right fit. I you know, I hope. I think Steve can be a good coach in this league.

I just don't think that was the right The NETS fit was right for him. But I mean, Steve is a bright mind, and yeah, I feel like the NETS thing is like you kind of you kind of don't want to be a fellow Hall of Famer coaching the other Hall of famers. If that makes it, I don't know, but yeah, we'll see. Man, would you ever get into coaching thanks of too much time? Yeah? He probably make more money doing your thing anyway, and got a lot of respect. I coached my kids AU team, but that ship,

that's two time consumer. I just don't have time. There it is, bro, We'll listen all the smoke new episodes? Is it? How often you guys dropping a weekly every Thursday? Every Thursday? Catch you on ESPN. If you pull into a dispensary and you see seven leaves, buy an eighth? Yes? Anything else coming? No? Right now, I'm just Barnes Boys Podcast, Your sons check up. Barnes Boys Podcast continuing Season two be out soon, Sit Man Boom, There it is Man,

Matt Barnes I appreciate your time. Brother, Yes, Sir boom Ye