#234 - Civic Cipher

mic in front of you too, ra. It is a radio show that exists to give the hip hop community a little bit more insight into the goings on politically in this country and to give a voice to the activist element that moves to create a better day to day life for black and brown, marginalized, impoverish communities, et cetera. What was the inspiration for starting the show? Really, it was twenty twenty, you know, folks getting out on the

street and protesting. You know, let us know that there was a gap in there was a gaping hole in the media space. Yes, I remember that. Anyway, tell me more about the gaping hole. No, no, I'm not going to tell you about that. You should talk about that anyway. There was a gaping hole in the media space. Sure, sure, and in the media space. You know, uh, we are both DJs and broadcasters. I'm talking to you like you

don't notice. You got to tell everybody else for people who don't know Rams is like my best friend in the entire world, best man on my wedding. Yes, you know I've known Kevin since he was three years old. Yes, so the reason bootleg keV is all into hip hop, this is true. It's all him. It's all his fault. It's literally his fault, his fault. We used to play guys when we were little, you know, little toys, not play with guys. That was what you called it. You

called it guys guys like action figures, action figures. Yes, so lifelong friend, that's friend. But but yeah, that in the media space, there wasn't anyone talking about what was going on in the streets, no one giving a voice to the movement, no one talking about, you know what explaining the concepts defund police. How do we you know, create programs to kind of mitigate you know, economic you know, instability and and and you know, bring just an activist

element to the to the airwaves. We was just if you would have turned on the radio at the time, it was just rapping and dancing and singing and fashion and there. It was just very like, uh, you know, obviously in radio there's not a lot of uh, time or space to really dive into those conversations right and outside of service level things, right. And so that's exactly what we pushed back against because you know, it's it's one thing. Q Q says it a lot better, but

I'll try to get you started. It's one thing to you know, profit from black culture because you know, a lot of folks at the top, they didn't really look like the community that who's culture. Mostly nobody at the top there you go, mostly mostly exactly, So a lot of them people were benefiting from it, but they didn't really have a vested interest in whatever outcomes took place

on the street. And we fought against that, uh, that balance, and so you know, yes, we take a moment, we turn the songs off, we turn the music off, we have conversations. We educate not just black and brown people, but everybody who communities right, anybody listens to hip hop. We figured they can be an ally to black and brown communities. They need to understand the conversations and struggles,

the challenges. And then by having those conversations long form in spaces where people are because it's hard for folks to seek out programs like ours if you're we don't seek out you know, Vietnamese program and no disrespect, but I don't feel like it's creative for me. So I don't expect you know, non black people to seek out what would be considered black programming. They don't feel like

it's for them. So by putting it in the media space where hip hop music can consume, black culture is consumed, it feels, in our opinion, feels a little bit more accessible for our listeners. And so this is how we've been able to connect with you know, radio stations around the country, listeners around the country. It's also available in podcasts form, sure, absolutely absolutely, So you know we've been

doing that. We've been doing in since then. Of course, the Black Information Network, which is a subsidiary if I Heeart Media, has reached out and they've kind of tapped on us to kind of expand the show, and then

I do a podcast for them as well. So it's been it's been a wild ride, but you know, making some proper How do you feel like it's like in terms of just like filling in the space that is missing that there were there wasn't anything sort of care to the issues or you know, I think your guys's mission before and I don't know why. You know, obviously there's I'm sure in certain markets there's like one off some people who do like shows like this but aren't

necessarily trying to take the national approach to it. So the interesting thing, keV, is that our initial push wasn't for us to do a show. So it's hard to tell the story and leave that part out. We didn't. We weren't trying to jump, you know, in front of the mic or in front of the camera. Just make sure your mike's turned down a little to tell the story.

And yeah, we just thought somebody should, right. So when we first at that first meeting with the PD, it was like, hey, you know, we got some unrated space overnight that's running. Are you talking about that at the Beat Arizona, Yes, sir, that's now the Bounce. That's now the Bounce. That's weird. The reason they changed their name because well they were also owns the Beat trademark, so there's that what Yeah, Rams just owns the Beat, so

they had to change the whole situation. But and we can talk about that too, But we were in the streets, Kevin, you noticed more than more than a lot of people when everything was happening in twenty twenty, a lot of people were outside with their skids, with their families, like, listen, there's some things that are going on that have been going on for so long and we just kind of

collectively all over it. Yeah, for sure, but the way that it was covered on television, even on some broadcast media was just not that, you know, call people rioters and protesters, I mean not protesters, but rioters and looters instead of protesters. So Rams is his idea was, listen, there's some people out there whose voice only goes as far as a bullhorn. It would be cool if we can just have them come on the radio and have a place where they can say their piece and tell

their story. And we got some unrated time overnight that's running what Don't Drink and Drive ads or something where we could you know, talk about that. And the station was initially like, yeah, that'd be a great idea. Yeah, we should put something together. And then a month went by, and then a couple months went by, and then a few months went by, and just in the spirit I think, in the spirit of follow up, Ram just went and had a meeting with you know, I'll let you say

the gentleman's name, Adrika RPD. At the time, Hey, remember that thing we talked about that everybody said would be a good idea? Are still to do that? And there's so many things they could have said back to us keV that we would have just had to take on the chin and run with, like, Hey, you guys, great idea, we don't want to do anything divisive. Hey guys, wonderful concept you guys talked about, but we don't really do political in this space. Had they said something like that,

we'd thought it was BS. But but we could have took that on the chain. What they said, or what he said, more specifically, was we don't want to do a black show. Wow. And the reason why that part of the story is important because Civic Sipher now seems like, Hey, those guys had a great plan and they ran to

play and it worked. That's not what happened. We pitched an idea to the station they told us as initially okay, and this is at the time, I mean still is a hip hop station, Yes, but it's a hip hop station, a hip hop station that plays nothing, nothing but black music. That was in Phoenix, Yes, My charge was that, you know, a station that plays seventy percent black artist and one hundred percent black music should also align itself be an ally to a community in need where we're hurting. You know,

people are dying. We're coming together. We're trying to change so that we can create a better path forward for our children. Right my father, what's fred Rico doing now? Sell in real estate? Like every other bum ass PD out there, they can't get a job. Man. Look, I haven't kept up. I will say this because it's important to say it. I talked to Fred, he wished me well on my journey, and I will leave it there,

but I would want to say this too. Let me let me say this because you know, for folks that aren't familiar with Civic Cipher, you know it was talking about you know, keV listening to my CD books. After Fred and I had our meeting, I don't think I

don't even think you know this. You have to bear in mind, I've been a radio broadcaster my whole adult career up to that point, and when I decided to resign after that meeting, I had to come to terms with the fact that I might never broadcast again, and that's a lot to come in terms with because in Phoenix, you know, I was kind of you know at that time,

especially for people who don't know you. You decided to resign after they said we're not going to put the show on that he said, ramses, I don't want to know way that they said it. I don't want to do a blow. I had to do it the way they said it, right. So I wrote my resignation letter, but I addressed it to the city of Phoenix because the Phoenix had given me my ratings, Phoenix had kept me on the air across multiple stations and so forth.

But I did make one phone call before I posted that, and I called you, and you were in Mexico at the time with your wife, and I read that to I. Remember I was crying, Yeah, I was, because you imagine when I got to the house you were still crying. Yeah, the emotion that goes into that. And I didn't know what was coming next. But I read that letter to you, and you was like, there's no way you can write that.

And I posted, posted, yeah, posted it and then got shared when viral the trades picked it up, you know, everyone picked it up, and then PD started reaching out around the country saying, hey, we'd like to carry that show. And then of course the podcast partnership with iHeart helped blow it up even more. And you know, then the other shows that I that I ended up doing it just led to sort of this snowball effects. So we had to create that on the spot. When these people

started out, there was no show. The show didn't exist. We just had an idea. But you know, Ramsey's initially resigned both of us from the beat, like okay, we don't work here no more, and then called me and told me, and of course right, but just he was that compelled, he felt that strong in that moment, like, imagine looking at for the cameras, imagine looking at him, We're not going to do a black show on the

hip hop station. Like it's a crazy thing to say, he loud to me, especially you know what I'm saying. So that decision kind of made it self care and then it was time to get to work, Q I need you to commit to doing this with me. I don't know what it's going to become, because you know it's worked out now we might top of the year, we might be on almost seventy stations. So it's worked out now. So it seemed like we had a plan and we ran to play like nah, it was just

the station made a decision for us. We don't want to do a black show, made the choice for us. What happened after that, they just kind of came together. So if you believe in God or the universe, or you know, whatever your belief system is, that's kind of where those thanks go. Because we had no idea and our minds were never going to work in radio again because Ramses's letter burned the station down. He named names. It was very it was very very specific, but had

to be done in that way, you know. But but we figured, okay, once this is published, I don't know how we're gonna do, you know, as far as the career thing after this. So once you the letter goes viral, did they ever Like they never even replied to it or try to. I had a brief line of communication to the general manager of the station, because you know, we're at a point Paul Holton, Okay, what's the other

guy's name? Is always there? The the other old old dude that's been there forever, Michael Michael Malice, Oh yeah, he was going by. Okay, okay, so Michael wasn't involved, but anyway, Uh yeah, I had a brief line of communication because we're going back and forth in the newspaper and in the trades. You know, they're saying it's this, I'm saying it's that, you know what I mean, And of course they have to spend it, have a whole business to protect, so they don't mind reframing the conversation,

the narrative around. They even try to get somebody else to do the show. Yeah, yeah, I think they hired Cedric Sabalo. Shout out to said that's my guy, but they hired him to do it. And then I think it was like Jackie Morales is another name out in Arizona. Some folks to try to pick up the slack because the community had since charged that station with hey, you should be doing what this guy resigned about, you know what I mean. So you know, everybody ended up winning again.

I kept a brief line of communication open with Paul. I still believe Paul to be, you know, friendly with me, but obviously because of where he works, in the situation circumstance, he probably can't talk to me. And I Honestly, I believe that a lot of those people really had good intentions. Was just one person who made the wrong decision at the wrong time and said it the wrong way to the wrong person. Because I've been I was the president of the Black Student Union in college INAACP at BSU.

This isn't new to me. I've been on this path for my life trying to make sure everything is fair and equal. Because you know, we reached me and u keV. We reach heights from playing with toys as a little kid. You know what I'm saying. We reach heights wed never thought and you know, for me, obviously it comes with an additional charge for you too. You've been really late about that, but it comes with a charge of Okay.

Now we have to make sure that people that don't make it to this height, we're doing right by them. We're making the world a little bit better placed, a little bit more accessible, and you know, helping change the narrative so that you know, we leave a legacy that's not just we make some bread. Hey, what up, y'all? Boulet keV got to stop the interview to tell you about our newest sponsor. Man shout out to the homies

at hard Dean, Las Vegas. That's right then, number one dispensary in the whole state of Nevada, let alone in the whole fucking country. So many choices of premium cannabis, ladies and gentlemen. It is like, how can I put this? You walk into it. You go to hard Dean in Las Vegas when you're on vacation, when you're out there tricking off whatever you're doing, stop off at hard Dean. Tell them I sent you. Be like yo, bootleg keV sent me. They're gonna take care of you at Hardean.

When I say selection, I mean selection of the best premium cannabis in the world, the best dispensary. There's a reason why Harden is world famous. Follow them right now. Hardan Underscore Las Vegas. Go to their website Hardinlasvegas dot com. That's J A. R. D. I N Underscore Las Vegas. When you're in Vegas, you have to pull up to Hardan, tell them I sent you, and get high off your fucking face. I don't even know what that means. How

do you get high off of your face? Whatever? Melt your fucking face off with some of that good hard Dean, y'all go follow them one more time. That's Hardyan underscore Las Vegas. Let's get back to the interview. So how did you end up? So you ended up buying the name the Beat trademark it? Yeah, in what? In what capacity? Because there's I mean a lot of radio station So there's like the major companies that own the Beat. Sure, so there's there's Uh, it's funny because I'm learning all

this stuff on the fly. In fact, I got a funny story to tell you about trademarks. But so there's a way you can trademark a name locally, like in a state, and then there's a way that you can trademark something federally, and it's basically protecting a brand or a name or a concept or something like that. So I didn't have to do too much anything. And the truth be told, we have a friend, we all three of us have a friend named C who trademarked it for me in my name and gave it to me

as a gift. Just sad. Listen, man, since you resign, I went ahead and trademarked that for you to beat, or just one one to beat. So the next time that that name is heard in Arizona. It'll be because you owned it. And he was like, listen, if you want a radio station, we can talk about buying you a station, you know, getting you some placement or whatever. So you know, it's just it's just being real friendly, you know what I mean. But I do own the name, so no one else can use it in terms of

the federal trademarks. Is that why they changed their name. They changed the name because the backlash from their black employee, who's the most tenured, who had the most you know, clicks on the website, you know what I'm saying, had resigned in such public fashion over allegations that they weren't being fair to the community. They were just taking money

and not giving anything back. And that was my charge. Listen, if you're not a black person, but you partake in black culture, the way I say it is, we don't mind if you eat from our table, just make sure you save us a seat. I think that that's more than fair, more than fair charge to anybody who partakes in black culture and uses it to make money. Just imagine that these are human beings who actually have to live and die in order to these stories to exist.

And we don't want to live this. We weren't just born to die and sell dope and you know, struggle. That's not fair and if you are profiting off of that pain, you know what I'm saying. If we asked for a seat at the table, we only asked for thirty minutes initially in the middle of the thirty people. And it didn't even have to betes a week. And it didn't even have to be us on the station. It could have been anybody else. We would have just made sure that we got the guest book, you know

what I'm saying. So that's been my charge. But you know, after that backlash, the station rebranded. Yeah, they had to make some changes. Are they aware every time you google one on one one that beat the story came up first. Are they aware that you're on that now? They will be after they hear this. I didn't have no reason to stunt on nobody, you know what I'm saying. I'm trying to do good, good work, and I believe now those people they learned a lesson. I never I've worked

with them for a long time. They weren't bad people. They just made a bad call again. But you know they've since done a couple of things. The shows. They're committed to making things right, so I don't want to like keep beating up on them. But I got to tell the story how it went. So if I say your name in the interviews, because that's how it happened.

So yeah, man, But you know, for now, I'm focused on making sure that we have conversations that are dedicated to healing, you know, conversations dedicated to you know, giving insight into what different people's experiences might be like, trying

to create more empathetic allies. We feel like we'll find allies for the plight of black and brown people in the spaces where we broadcast and you know podcast as well, and we need to give them insights so that when they go home for Thanksgiving and they sit in their uncle's presence or their dad's presence, they know how to have conversations that will show that, Okay, there's a different way of looking at this, pops, you know what I'm saying.

These people actually have some other you know what I'm saying, And so we lean on a lot of great thinkers. I never thought I was a DJ. I never thought i'd be in this position, you know, we both were. You know, he was djiling for the Phoenix Suns. You know what I'm saying. So who's to say, you know what tomorrow holds. But when the call comes and you're the only person holding the ball, what do you do?

You run with the ball. So you know, that's how we ended up, you know here, and to piggyback off of that, we've done our best to grow it even more so again I mentioned to be in daily podcast, making sure we have platforms to tell these stories. But Q, hopefully I'm not putting your business out there. But he recently acquired Hip Hop Weekly, the media imprint. Yes, that's that's his now, and you know he can, you know, tell stories how they deserve to be told, and you

shaping it up. Don't let me speak for you. No, I mean, we were planning to relaunch Top of the Year and a bunch of people that we know and a bunch of people we don't know, freelancers, journalists, photographers and up and coming artists will have a space that kind of always existed but didn't have the light that

it deserved. So just kind of rebranding that magazine because Hip Hop Weekly is like kind of like a you know, it's it's uh, would you say, it's kind of like the tabloid version of like it's kind of like Hollywood Unlocked, but in a magazine form. Yeah, kind of before all the all that existed, Yeah, for sure. So and it was still in print, like it'd be next to like

US Weekly, Yeah, you know all that. So coming back to the digital space with something that was a printed magazine, right, and really creating a new platform for not just creators, but artists that will not when the artists are creators, but not just the people who capture the stories, but the people that create them. So you know, branding and relaunching, you know, doing covers again, like really giving people something

to read. And yeah, because the covers prior, I think it was very like it was like a bunch of stuff going on on the cover. I mean you said it, it it was just like how if you go see US Weekly magazine at the grocery store. Now like a bunch of headlines. We're trying to do more classic covers. As I say, the headline. Really it's a little harder to the Internet. It's like it's like harder to keep up if you're printing because by the time it gets printed,

who knows how the story's changed. Yeah, especially if the Kanye shit. Like every other day, we record our show a day ahead of time, and it's like Jesus, I can't even fucking we can't even keep up with all the wild shit happening. Speaking of that, you own white Lives Matter, indeed, yeah, so uh so for people who don't know. So this is the other part. You you technically own the term white Lives matter, the trademark. That's a federal trademark that applies to the whole United States.

So yeah, if you were to go and look it up, it's owned by Civic Cipher LLC. We acquired the trademark from an individual in our orbit who procured that and then also filed for All Lives Matter federally because they weren't trademarked funnily enough. And so this person did that and wanted to ensure that the right people would benefit from those sayings, and we ultimately ended up acquiring it

through our lawyer Morris. So now we are the deciders of who profits from those terms white lives matter and all lives Matter. So if you ever see any individual selling that shirt, it's either illegal or they had to come down to our street and knock on our door and we had to negotiate the terms of that cell.

So when are you assuing Kanye West. Well, if Kanye West or any other person decides to sell because he hasn't sold any he hasn't sold those yet, right, and so he decides to sell something, you know he will either have to get clearance or he has to face our trademark attorneys. Because I saw he was just giving away the shirts and skid row. He was just passing him out the homeless through that. And then that's that's

totally fine. But in terms of profiting off of a statement that is intended to dilute the significance and the thrust of a statement as affirming as black lives matter, the right people should decide who gets money off of that, who gets money off of that? Exactly, if you wanted to affirm for yourself that white lives matter in your own path through life, that is your right you can make. You can paint it on your shirt, no one can

stop fight. But if you as soon as you want to sell it, you are infringing on Civic Cipher LLC's federally protected trademark and you will be suedow. Yes, you can look at us any lawsuits yet. No, no, no, we just sent out seas and desists to people that were selling bootleg versions of that stuff. Oh I didn't send them out the lawyers, did we know, we're not lawyers.

Somebody sent was selling fake white Lives Matter shirts. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah people so and then the ausest matter to Once that comes back, you know, the cnds go out and then you know, if you ever do see a person selling them again, they came and they knocked on our door. We worked it out, or we choose to donate that

money whatever. If we choose to donate that to certain organizations or whatever, then that is our right and we can decide how that money gets spent, and hopefully it will be for the betterment the communities most impacted by folks likely most likely to wear those shirts. So you know,

there's your catch. Twenty two. We learned from Byron Allen that you you want to own the game, not the game piece, and so and just again, some fortunate sequence of events took place and ended up with sort of the hot topic of the day, this white Lives Matter thing, and you know, you can look it up yourself. You'll see Civic Cipher Studios address. Everything is all there, right, Yeah, what are your thoughts on just everything, Kanye from the last two weeks or so, It's been a rough two weeks.

I'll let you jump on that. It's been a lot. Started. It started with the White Lives Matter thing, which it was like, Okay, this guy's I felt like he was just trolling for the wrong reasons, real hurtful. Yeah, but no, accually got some interesting thoughts. Drink Champs interviews, Wild Wild, Yeah, Kanye West is kind of the leader of a really really interesting movement right there. There's a time in the last several years where group think, right right, being contrarian

to group think is being accepted as intelligence. If I just think the opposite of what everybody else is thinking, then I'm gonna just show everybody how how on top of it. I am no research, no studying, no information, just whatever everybody seems to be saying, say the opposite. I'm going to say the opposite, and I'm gonna show you guys how freethinking I am right, which isn't irresponsible if you just work down the street at Panda Express. And that's just what you want to get off your chest.

But when you have this stature and the influence of someone like mister West, he's probably the most influential human being ever, it's grossly irresponsible. Yeah, and if you've noticed, he's developed a bit of a zealot following, where in their minds he can't do or say anything wrong, even if it's blatantly and fagrant, flagrantly untrue. We can't agree on what's facts anymore. I think people are just more

likely to forgive Kanye because they love his music so much. Yeah, there's that, and they love his shoes and they But I feel like that only goes so far. And I think he might have hitten that. He might he might have hit that wall of like people. He has some people with him, though, keV that want to also be viewed as leaders of the in the free thought space.

And they think that by again just bucking the trend, whatever I'm contrarian about in my circles and on Instagram and on Twitter, I can be viewed as free thinking and of a higher level of intelligence just by saying the opposite of whatever is popular. Accepted opinion, even when popular accepted opinion is based on fact. I'm just going to say the opposite so I can show you guys how woke and learn it I am. And he's the

leader of that school, really really is. As you can see, I think he's with trying to come across as a leader. It's it's pretty wild. Well because technically he is a leader. The problem is is he doesn't carry himself like he

has those responsibilities. And like you know, I think that some of the anti Semitic shit he's saying is crazy, so hurtful, it's just wild and so like he said, he had said something like Jewish people have controlled Black voices for so long and if you if you feel that way, can't you just say, black people, it's time

we start controlling our voices without mentioning, without mentioning another. Absolutely, especially when you're the self proclaimed richest black man in the history of the United States, you, sir, can absolutely create that space where we own our own stories, our own voice, and our own platform. Like even with the Trump thing, like I understood what he was trying to do. He was trying to push the line that says, hey, the Democratic Party had been taking advantage of black voters

this whole entire time. Let me show y'all you don't have to. Like when he really explained it out, I was like, well, I get the what he's trying to do, but the way he did it, you can do that without all. You could just say it or you could yeah, you could say it without looking like you're fucking you're hugg Like he looked like a kid who met his favorite celebrity. I mean he called the guy a father figure,

like his dad, Like come on, dude, Yeah. And so I think like Kanye is just very He's just very The way he communicates what he thinks to be right is just so short sighted and it's just very. Like it's like, dude, like like the White Lives Matter thing, he's like, I think he what did he say? He said Black Lives Matter was a scam. There I ended it.

And it's like, you could be very you know, critical of Black Lives Matter the organization as Kanye West, yes, and be and point out a lot of shit, but what is the point of doing that while also putting on a shirt that says white Lives Matter. I want to add to that though, because you know, I hear a lot of that stuff, you know, but for someone in that position, you have to bear in mind that, well, there's a bunch of different there's a bunch of different

Black Lives Matter organization. Let me let me say this, okay, So I come from the tradition of so my teacher, doctor Camille Westerb. Yeah, you know her. Shout out doctor Westernburg, shout out doctor Westerberg made sure that I learned what movements look like, what struggles look like, you know what

I mean. So we learned from the panthers, We learned from you know, all these these organizations, these individuals with groups and movements around them, you know, the Stokelyes, the Baldwin's, James Baldwin, all these folks, right, and these folks that had contrarian opinions that ran against what was popular in

the country at the time. And you know, people used every trick in the book to frame folks as being this, that or the other, right, just because you know, these are information wars, right, it's a matter of influencing public opinion. If you can make doctor King look like the most evil human being who ever lived. Most when doctor King was like most people opposed his views. Most Now it's all good because he's been rebranded. Right. So I take when people talk bad about BLM the organization, I take

that with a grain of salt. I also add to it that BLM has done a lot since Trayvon Martin died in twenty twelve. Right, It's been around since then, right, And they've done a lot of good things. And every organization deserves to be able to grow up. You know, the Kennedys, the great American family, they got their money. They got their start in prohibition. In Prohibition, I mean they were selling illegal products in the United States of America.

That's how they got their money. We're able to attain political status in this country. And you know they say most every fortune is built on the back of the crime, or something like that. There's a popular saying, which I don't believe necessarily that BLM has done anything criminal. They've just done things that perhaps most folks don't agree with in terms of how things should be spent. Based on what I've read, they haven't like robbed any banks or

killed any people or anything. Yeah, I just think that there's a lot of criticism, a lot of the victims that have obviously been highly publicized that has fueled their movements or have not reaped the benefits. Sure, and so where there's a lot of the higher ups in Black Lives Matter who are millionaires now that weren't millionaires prior,

you're saying the same thing as me. So in terms of your opinion on how they spend money, you know it's not illegal, Like you said, they're not criminals, right, So who's to say? But you know, I know this.

When Kanye West to be so critical of something without giving it context, without knowing himself, without having walked in those shoes, I feel like that's kind of a tough I remember reading a story about BLM, and I don't want to act like the great defender of Bilim, but I just don't hear the other side of it in the media. And because I've seen this in history, again,

I take it with a grant of salt. But the other side of this is one of the stories that I've seen was BLM bought a house, a mansion, something like this. I was framed and then I had to do some investigation because obviously we do the show, I have to ever talk about it. Yeah, I did some investigation, and the way BLM was looking at that purchase was like, no, this was a facility. We have to have a place that's protected where they can't put bugs on the wall

and tap stuff. We can't be renting a place. We can't, you know, we have to have something with a gate. We have to with certain requirements where we can house people, you know whatever. And this place afforded us all of these things that we needed. And so this was a reasonable purchase for a business like our, or for a movement organization like ours, and for anyone else that had an opinion prior to reading that article, they would look at it like, oh, okay, of course these black people

got this money and now they're spending it. They're throwing parties or whatever. And that's the way the article framed it. But when you dig it one layer deeper, ask one person a question, and you get a little bit more context, you're like, Okay, that makes sense. It's entirely reasonable and it's not this nefarious operation. And so again, Kanye West or whoever else who has been critical, but you know, this is the person we're talking about right now. Him

saying these things again is very hurtful. Because it's very easy to support someone black if you're the same Kanye West who goes on the news and says, George Bush doesn't care about black people. If these are my people out here, When my people go in the store, they say that they're looting. But when it's white people that go into the store. This is about Katrina, him talking about when white people go in the store, they're getting

supplies because they're desperate. When my people go in the store, Kanye West said that, and then he said George Bush doesn't care about black people. I remember watching that. I remember watching that. So if that's the same person who can give a little bit of grace, an understanding and context to a conversation for him to then take it all away from BLM who's been active on the street.

I haven't seen Kanye West in any protests, clearly, clearly not the same person though, But you're sure, But you know I'm holding him to that standard that he set for himself. Right, I've seen since twenty twelve, I've been at the library right with these people, in small little meetings with doctor Westernberg. Because I'm the person on the radio in my city. Hey, we gotta stop the interview. Real quick to tell you about our partners at odd

Socks are presenting sponsor here at the Bootleg Hit podcast. Listen, Christmas times approaching faster than you think. I mean, we're like fucking a month and a half away or some shit whatever. Get some odd socks for your folks. Go to odd socksofficial dot com, use the promo code Bootleg, and you'll save twenty percent off at checkout. The most comfortable socks in the world. That's right, we got some scarface socks. They got wwe Yeah, I mean they also

got the cheech and chunks. They also got the flaming hots for you hot shitt eating fucks out there. My favorite just the odd socks basics. They're just so comfy, Literally, the most comfortable sock in the world. I'm holding the fucking sock right now. You can save twenty percent off. Plus they got boxers now, baby, all right, Go to odd socksofficial dot com, promo code Bootleg at checkout, save twenty percent off and support our family at odd socks

and the podcast at the same fucking time. Let's get back to the interview, and there's like, there's very like localized chapters. Ye. So there's like a Black Lives Matter LA. There's a Black Lives Matter Phoenix Mester, It's a Black Lives Matter. So all of those are very like separate from I think. I think, I think you can't just

paint the whole thing with one brush. But I do think that in the same way we're talking, like Cannice Owens is capitalizing off of everything she's looking at it through, I think a lot of people are doing it on the other side too. Sure, Sure, I listen, that's it's not impossible that these things because I know this. I just talked to Killer Mike. So I call Killer Mike and I'm like, yeah, where I donate my money? And if Killer Mike tells me, don't donate it there, donate

it here, I'm like, cool, Listen. I just talked to doctor Camille Westenberg, and I tell you what. If somebody comes down my street and says, hey, we would like to acquire the federal trademark to create and produce and sell anything that says white Lives Matter on it, I know that the NAACP is ready and willing to receive a check from Civic Cipher lerc You know what I'm saying. And then I know some people, like you said, there are local chapters, the people that I've seen do the work,

the people that inspired Civic Cipher. There's a woman named Zara Tacola. You know, I love her that she's my shiro. You know what she's doing. She has a five oh one C three. They do grassroots work in Arizona, and you know nationally, she has a national profile. I would love to donate money to her because I believe in her, you know her. I was going to say, if people want to help out, how do they vet where they should put their money. Well, you can start by donating

the Civic Cipher. You can get civiccipher dot com because we are on it. I've risked my whole career to bring some like I was the man I was doing my thing. You know what I'm saying, keV, I'm telling you like I got to convince you. But you know we was there together, right, But yeah, I'm I'm I. We have a segment on our show called Baba Become

a Better Ally, right. It's it comes from one of the African languages means father as well, so sort of a reference to like guidance or whatever become a better ally and that segment we often talk about the NAACP right, So it's the oldest, most established organization that that moves in such a way to try to create more opportunities and more political strength for impoverished communities Black and brown. You know, I do believe we we do believe in

unity between all marginalized groups of people. So you'll see me. You're hear me say black and brown a lot. But I also mean, you know, our AAPI brothers and sisters, I mean our Native brothers and sisters, Indigenous brothers and sisters, our l g B, t q I A plus brothers

and sisters. Anybody nailed it. If you were born, if you feel like you were born with a strike against you, and you want to join a movement where love is at the center of the conversation, where we are trying to make sure everybody has a voice and it's heard and it's protected, and there's equality as far as we can take that, then that's the movement that you want to be on. And we didn't ask to be in this position again, you know, with all these stations carrying

our message around this whole entire country. But now that we're here, there's an even greater responsibility to be true to it. And you know, if they bury my son's carry me on my last day and they bury me in the ground. And the last thing I did was record an episode of Civic Cipher, I'd still say this was a life well lived. Has there been anything because I know you guys were doing some conversations about like the vaccine and obviously there's a lot of hesitancy within

the you know, black and brown community to get the vaccine. Sure, it turns out a lot of the hesitancy was maybe well warranted. Maybe I I never found that to be true in the the the studies that I've done well. I was going to ask, like, if you guys do an episode on something and then kind of like the facts evolve, Oh yeah, we have. It's beyond revisiting, because that's important. Out we were wrong, we have he say that. I think that's important too, because a lot of people

wouldn't do that. I want to say before we move on with Lives Matter, right, before we move on from that, Black Lives Matter is a statement that is true, that is true, correct, and a lot of the reason why you know RAMS did not go back and forth. I don't do a lot of the apologizing or explaining on behalf of the organization because Kevin Quentin and Ramses can be scrutinized, Our LLCs can be scrutinized, our companies can be scrutinized and be wrong and make mistakes. Black lives matter, period,

as a statement is true. So I don't even have to talk about dot org right, right, and all of the other lives matter statements came just to oppose the statement black lives matter. Yeah, I was just talking to Akon about it, and that's what I was saying. I was like, you know, the origin of this was because obviously black lives don't matter as much as everyone else

is correct. So it's like, black lives matter as a statement is one true, and Kanye's got to be smart enough to realize the connotations that white like white lives matter. No one was saying that, but now they're saying it to combat an obvious The same with black eyes on the matter, the same with all lives matter. It was those statements were born just to oppose the statement black lives matter, not to oppose the organization or anything wrong

that they did. Right. So that's why it hits the way that it does, because we know where those statements were born from, why they were even created, why people say them. They say them to stand in opposition to the statement that black people's lives are important and that they're worthy of existing, worthy of equality. You know, during breast cancer Awareness Month, we don't argue that multiple sclerosis

is also worth talking about. We don't do that when it saved the wells, we don't talk about well the birds aren't migrating like. We don't do that with anything else, you know what I mean. So the reason why I get so disappointed and passionate and angry about it is because of what you said. He's smart enough to know that, and still rides this horse of really not just division, but intentional attention mongering for statements that are flagrantly opposed

to something so simple in its nature. Right, if you're such a free thinker, how come if we check the boxes on the points that you make, they line up so accurately and in such perfect alignment with white supremacist agendas, with aligning yourself with people like homegirl who for the dollar get on the mic and say anything with dude in the red hat, like you can make your free thinking statements without having to then attach yourself to things that are so opposed to our children being able to

go to school and be okayum, you know what I'm saying. That's why I get so passionate and upset about it. My kids are black and Mexican and you wearing the MAGA hat for the dude whose whole campaign was build a wall to keep Mexican people out, like dog are really fam So George Bush hates black people, it doesn't care about black people, and that was your stance, but

now white lives matter and you know you're trolling. And then on the very very wild Drinks you know drink, he tripled down on his anti Semitic rhetoric Like really, bro, Yeah, yeah, it's rough, especially to me. To me, the craziest Kanye

ship was the George flood ship, bro. And for what Yeah, and then your your source material on that is a Canvas owned documentary the lady who's been so she's gone out of her way since the man died to tell us how awful he was, as if that makes the fact that the man killed him Okay, right, it doesn't matter all Like they say, all lives matter. Yeah, well so does the guy who had a drug problems live matter who has a bad criminal. That's all I'm saying.

All lives matter, until do they all lives are immigrants or prisoners or convicts and criminals. That's I'm glad you said that, because you know, people we feel like, especially on the show, we feel like people deserve a little dignity. We don't feel like anybody is simply the worst thing

they've ever done. People deserve to be forgiven. We're not the biggest fans of cancel culture, you know what I mean, Because there's people who make mistakes, make honest mistakes, right, and you know, if we condemn everyone who makes a mistake to you know, the margins of society, then they're just going to find community within each other and then we bolster the opposition. Hey guys, we got to stop the interview to tell you about our good folks over

at blue chow dot com. That's right. Listen, you gotta go to blue Choo right now. Sign up for blue Choo with the promo code Bootleg. You're gonna get your first month for free blue Cheo, the same active ingredient as viagra and scilis, but in a chewable form. That's right, You pop the blue chee, chew that thing, wash it down with your beverage of choice, and then get to work with that hard fucking cock of yours. Your dick is gonna be harder than triggonometry was in high school.

Ladies and gentlemen. It's gonna be fucking raw, like you know, uh Ryu and street fighter. He'd be like, oh you can he does the motherfucking this is gonna be your dick. It's gonna be like Yu's fucking uppercut. You know what I'm saying. God bless whoever's on the receiving end of that. Consensually. Of course, Uh, they're gonna thank you for taking the Blue Choo. So go to Bluechoo dot com. Use the

promo code bootleg. All right. I'm talking free month right to your doorstep, indiscrete packaging, no awkward doctor's visits, all right, it's all online. You don't have to worry about going and sitting in a waiting room and be like, hey doc, my dick. I could use a little pep in my step and then it's awkward. You gotta look at this old fuck talking about your dick. He might ask you to pull it out. Who fucking knows what's going on at blue Choo. None of that's happening blue choo dot com.

And they also got the new brand new mint flavored Chewable which has Bardena fill in it, which is the same active ingredient as Levitra and Stackson, which is a little more potent, a little more potent. If you need the extra on top of the extra, you know what I mean, get the mint Chewable. Yeah, your wife will thank you, your girlfriend will thank you, your boyfriend will thank you. Whatever the fuck you're fucking'll thank you as long as it's legal. All right, let's get back to

the interview. Go to boot you dot com, Promocoe Bootleg. That's it. There's some stuff that you know, you have to learn. And you know when we're talking about uh, Candice Owens and Kanye West and those people, that those things break down their entire argument, you know what I mean.

It's like, there's no grace, there's no nothing. If you are black, if you're brown, if you had a problem, if you made a mistake, whatever, it's held over your head and as though it's now justified for you to be dead, you know, And that's not the way the legal system in this country works. That's not the way it's supposed to things should work. You know. You deserve to have a full life, make your mistakes and learn

from them. I think obviously, just taking Candice Owns and Kanye West out of the conversation, I think that the extreme of each side does extremely wild ship. Yes, sure, sure, I'll give you that. That is very that just kind of like turn like every each side turns each other off in a way that there it removes any new nuance to any middle ground in reality. Well it's it's it's two different realities. And it's also like on each

side like common sense is just gone. So it's like now it's like, okay, where are the conversation's happening for people to kind of meet in the middle on some of these issues. And I'm not saying like issues in terms of like obviously police brutality, everybody should agree that's fucked up, But there's a lot of ship that like I would say most people if you were to take the craziest like wild fucking Trump supporter, and you would take like you know the wildest No, not you, not you.

I mean like you know, so much further extremes than us, the wilder. We're much closer to the middle. Yeah, Like the extreme left ship is pretty wild, and it gives like the entire left like such a batter is and the same way that you know, uh, the crazy right wing people. It just makes uh nuance and conversation almost obsolete. And in terms of like not being able to I feel like the tribal aspect of it is so bad to where it's like, Okay, well we think this over here,

so we think this over here. Like the vaccine thing to me was like one of those things that was so crazy because I saw people getting demonized for not wanting to do something to their own body, and I'm like, this is crazy. This is not a right wing or left wing thing. This is a personal decision. So not I'm vaccinated. But what you said that's important. You asked

us about having to correct. We have to apologize with haste. Right, if we say something that it's the next show has to be the first thirty minutes got to be about that, right, we had we it's required or our show is shit, right, Like what are you guys talking about this last week? And it was trash? Y'all never addressed it again, Like yeah, right, but what you just said is the bar of this whole thing. The nuance doesn't exist anymore. It's all extreme

or not. When I was a kid and Reagan was the president, my mom did not agree with his politics, but her friends at work that did, they weren't beefing because there's points and platforms that political people campaign on, and for most of those they're extreme because that's how they get their BaseT. But in the middle there used to be shit that everybody agreed was good. Yes, that does not exist anymore. So you bring up the vaccine.

We're interviewing an epidemiologist, right. She can tell you, without any hesitation, straight to your face, that we all should have got vaccinated. That does not mean that one hundred percent of people that get vaccinated will live long, healthy lives. But that's how it would be dissected. One hundred people got vaccinated, seventy of them got sick, passed away, whatever, And now that's the vaccine's fault, and that's just not

how any vaccine. I think the problem with that back from yeah, you're right, I think the problem with the vaccine was that it was introduced as like an end all, be all, like what you get this, You're good, and then they kept introducing more shots, and then on top of that, they were withholding the fact that if you already had COVID, that it was actually better than getting the vaccine. Let me let me make sure that I

paint this picture with you, Kevin. Yeah, the political landscape of the country at that time was that every single thing that made headlines had to be politicized and sold. And it still is. That just a problem. So like to me, like I would I got vaccinated, but I was like, I'm not getting boosted, like at all. I'm straight not getting boosted. I've had COVID fucking twice. I'm vaccinated. I'm good. But my kid who's sixteen, is like, dad's a trumper, he's an anti vaxxer. And I'm like, what

do you mean, I'm a healthy thirty you're all so reasonable? Yeah, right, most people aren't reason And I don't know when that part happened. That's my I think it happened. I think Trump is who really turned up each side. Now you see why I don't rock with buddy. Yeah, that's Trump. Trump definitely did that. And I think that like he made it to where he made everything tribal, and it was already tribal, he was already tribal, but he made

it crazy different. Yeah, and and I just think that, like, uh yeah, I don't know, man, I just we're in a place where politically, like each side is bat shit crazy at times. You know, I can I can say Joe Biden has done some good ship. I don't say he's done some bad ship. But you should be able to say that. You should be critical of anybody who's in charge the problem, especially that scene. You should be hyper critical, right, Like I voted for Joe Biden. I

also think he's like not a great president. Now, is he a better president than Trump would have been on most things? Yes, on the things that are most important to me. I want to say this too, because you said something. I don't want the narrative to get out there the wrong way. Okay, we watched you and me, we watched the presidential election in twenty sixteen. Yeah, I

voted for Bernie Sanders. Yeah, yes, And I want to make sure that you said that because you said aiden your son thought that you might be a Trump or something like that. Kevin is not a Trump or we will no, no, no no, no, no no no. I mean I voted for Joe Biden, and I hate Joe Biden. Nobody listening might think like that. Listen, Joe Biden was the worst candidate that the Democrats ran, and I still voted for his I know, I know, but I want to make sure people out there listening know that you

never voted for Trump at all. That was no, of course no. But I just think that like, for example, like if Trump does something good when he was president, if he did something good, be like, oh yeah, I agree with this. That doesn't mean you agree with him or you're a Republican or you love him, right, And then it's that part, right, it's people subscribed to him, the person, right, it's the leader who couldn't It's like

the it's like the Kanye shit. But just you know, for white people, I had people like DM and me in defense of this. They met No. I'm like yo, I'm like yo, I know you and your kids crazy. You're upset with me because I said something about this man. That's true that you've never met, that doesn't care about you, that you don't know, like people really really subscribe to

him on like a zealot. I think that the Trump thing got so out of hand that it got everyone else so much out of character that now if you're on the conservative side of the aisle, now you can point at the other aisle and be like, well, you guys did this. You guys purposely like the Hunter Biden shit is kind of like a black eye on media because they purposely withheld a real story collectively Twitter, Facebook,

New York Times came out in admitted it. It's and like the left shouldn't be doing that, right, we would we know one should be doing nobody. But what I'm saying is like Trump was so crazy that it really felt like if he gets re elected, we don't know what's going to happen, it can get bad. That it made everyone else stooped to his level. Yeah, and now everyone's hands are dirty. Yeah, now that on the right, once he showed that there was no line he wouldn't cross.

That's what I'm saying. So it's like now it's like, Okay, I mean I hope that obviously, you know, there's somebody who runs besides Joe Biden. That's you know, younger and more able. What up, y'all, We gotta stop the interview real quick. Tell you about our good friends at my Bookie. That's right, man. My bookie is where you want to get this money and enjoy being a degenerate like myself.

And it's the best time of the year to be a degenerate because NFL season is obviously we are in the midst of a crazy NFL season, NBA season just started. World Series is going down, and you can get your bets in right now. Go to my Bookie and sign up for a new account using the promo code bootleg. That's bot LG. You sign up right now. They will match your first deposit, that's right. Put in a thousand. Oh, they'll give you another thousand to gamble with. That's free money,

free money to gamble with. Let's get in on this action, man, NFL season. I'm loving this part of the year so much good just everything to bet on, football, basketball, fucking UFC, NFL, baseball, whatever. Now is the best time to get your gamble on. So go sign up for a new account at my Bookie. Use that promo code bootleg and double your deposit. Let's get back to the interview. What you think about Gavin Newsom. I think I lived here and it was terrible. So

I don't know, man, I don't think. I don't I'm not sure Gavin Newsom will be the guy gotten Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But Gavin Newsom also like destroyed like most small businesses in California, Like all the restaurants I was going to, they're all closed, and it was all kind of and you look like Florida's death rates were not any I think if it's a Newsom verse DeSantis, Newsom is gonna have a hard time in that debate. Well, I would like it to be one of the things

that I will say. I would rather it be them too than Trump and who yes, yes, as long as Trump is not in the cards. Literally anything else more damaging. I just think it sucks because, like you would think Kamala Harris would have taken the opportunity to like be the next person, but like she's not gonna win. She's kind of faded to the background. For the truth is, like I said, these media awards, now that we're playing this media game, we understand exactly how media works and

how it shapes optics around people. You know, I went from loving Kamala to despising her, to loving her and cheering for her to despising her, and I realized looking back on all that, I'm like, Okay, so when she got elected, this was great, and then she was like imprisoning black people's doing that before she got a let But you know, I'm trying to say, I'm trying to tell the story about how no, no no, no, I mean that she becomes the VP, and then it's like, oh,

that's why it's important to have nuanced conversations. And then this is why there's a show called Breaking Points on YouTube. It's like a kind of like an old school conservative young dude and an old school like liberal lady. And the shows like they just do the news and then at the end they each give their take, so like if you want to watch like the their opinion on something, they'll find one thing to kind of like. But it's like, like you said, the media is weaponized in such a

crazy way. Now to do they find the middle ground? Yeah, or they just agree to disagree, But which is Okay?

You were saying something though, the way the media space is right now in our with with the opportunity that we have with Civic Cipher, in the conversations that we can have, we understand that we both kind of share similar views, but we also recognize that there are other people we call them brothers and sisters and we mean that who may not agree with us, but we have to get a message to them in a meaningful way that they will receive them. And war fire and Brimstone

is not going to do that. That's why. You know, it's a topic that I think like people, and I'm obviously pro choice, but how dare you no? But this is the thing, right, is like if someone if someone isn't pro choice, that means that they literally think that abortion is murder. So if they literally think that, then you have to respect that they don't want it to happen. But the problem is is if someone says that they are against abortion, then they all of a sudden they

hate women, you know what I'm saying. But the problem is what you said though most of the people that come out on the other side of it. Because if I'm going to approach you, let's talk about the vaccine. Right. If I'm going to approach you as anti vaccine or pro If I cannot have an intelligent, simple conversation with you on either side of it, then what am I doing? And my thing is is I don't even think it's worth having a conversation with people who are anti abortion

because they literally think it's murder. Yeah, so if you think something is murder, then I get it. So I was describing sort of the temperament of our show, and I think that this point so I appreciate. I think this point helps us illustrate it. If someone has, like for instance, you mentioned the vaccine, If someone has an opinion on what they're going to do with their body, that sort of thing, we have to respect that, and

I get it. We of course, on the show, we recommended that you know, community's hardest hit by COVID R take the vaccine. We had taken the vaccine, We both had COVID. You know, we understood sort of what we're up against, and we did our due diligence in terms of the research right at the time. So making those recommendations or having those conversations were not necessarily rooted in someone else's a pressure. Right, we have conversations on our show.

You know what I mean. You can have your difference of political beliefs, right, and I'll allow you those beliefs provided they are not rooted in my oppression. So when it comes to the abortion issue, which is a woman's issue, so none of us in theory should be great champions,

are great voices in that space. But in terms of we all have women that we love in our lives, and you know, we have platforms, and so we have to kind of walk that line as best we can, recognizing that other people have their opinions on what needs to happen if a woman is pregnant and does not want to have the baby. Those opinions, in theory, they should only exist provided they're not rooted in the oppression

of some other group of people. And if you can make the case that I'm pro abortion or I'm sorry pro life, pro life exactly, and women look at that like, well, that decision is rooted in my oppression, that that decision oppresses me, It limits what it is that I can do with my own body. I am a free, freestanding human being endowed with consciousness from those people, though it

doesn't matter, it's not just her body, whatever, whatever. But the thing is when we have these conversas I guess what I'm saying is like what we were talking about earlier, right, if like, if someone tells me that their pro pro life, like, I'm not going to just assume that they're a terrible person. But in terms of column is is like if like if if somebody came out and said I'm pro or I'm pro life, right, they automatically get this whole entire right,

And then that's what I'm saying. We don't have to write people off. That's politics, but we too though for sure, well let me let me finish. We don't have to

write people off for feeling how they feel. But we cannot give equal footing if someone else's opinion is rooted in the oppression of someone else by the nature of our show, because that has been used to a press black people since black people arrived on these shores, that formula that format, and so we buy by the by the virtue of the show that we do the nature

of the show. We cannot we cannot do that. So if someone else has a separate opinion, we have to still call them our brothers and our sisters who have a different opinion. We do our best to illustrate their points on our show, and oftentimes those points have value, their credible points, they do not reflect the reality that I mean. Listen, my thing is is if someone's religious, right, yeah, religious, great?

One religious is like, yo, I think that the baby's being murdered, So you want me to co sign that. I personally am an atheist. So I don't give a fuck about none of that, you know what I'm saying. I don't care like smoke them as long no, as long as it's a certain obviously, even in a certain range.

I think the late term of bridge is crazy. But I just think that like it's like it's it's kind of like back to what I was saying about the vaccine thing, where it's like, yo, like there's nurses who are heroes during the pandemic who got fired because they wouldn't get vaccinated and guess what they were, right, So you're talking about something I don't know about. So there's actual nurses, people who work in hospitals job. I just have not come across that story myself or those there's

people who lost their job. Listen, I know that again there's this and this is the point we're making there's credible conversations, there's credible ideas and beliefs on both sides. On the Black Information Network Daily podcast, it's a show that I do every day. I have a maybe twice a week feature that I do. It's called One More Thing. So check that out at bion news dot com or iHeart dot com. You'll see me. I'm the one with

the afro next to Katie Curic. Anyway, on that platform, when I do that show, I say something that I believe really works in this space. And this is sort of the temperament we have on Civic Cipher as well. I say, listen, I don't profess to be right. I would love to hear you our listener's thoughts on this, and maybe somewhere in the middle will find our way together forward, our way forward together. Right. And so this is kind of the formula that we have to have

bear in mind. On Civic Cipher. We have to take a show that is talking to music programmers and ask them to turn the music off for an hour a week. Sometimes they bury in the middle of the night. That's fine, We'll take it. But we have to convince these people to let us have conversations in spaces where they don't exist. And in doing that, we have to bear in mind that these people's opinions, these oftentimes wealthy white men, their

opinions politically may differ from ours. And yet and still they may listen to this show, and we need them to recognize that their opinion is at least being represented. It will be challenged, but it will be represented in we will do our best to represent their opinion fairly, and we will not be unfair. That's just the thing that we do, you know. Obviously, having some sort of conversation is just I feel like we do that as

often can we get guests. The troubling thing and I hate to keep saying the word nuanced, but Kevin said it, and it's important. Right. If I'm a fireman and I no longer believe in the science that water puts fire out, I can't be a fireman anymore. If I'm on the clergy and I go to seminary and some sciencest convinces me that parts of the Bible are untrue, then I

can't sit on the clergy anymore. If you are a medical professional, doctor, nurse, and you don't believe in the science of medicine, then you probably shouldn't be a nurse anymore, right, your job in that space. Yeah, but the science of medicine, the science of that vaccine has been changed so much on the CDC websites, and there's like monoclonal antibodies and there's a lot of shit that they purposely withheld in

some of the states that science wise. If I'm a nurse and I'm like, yo, well, the science says if you have had COVID then you're more safe than if you get the vaccine, then you can practice. So my thing is that they're right. But my thing is is, like with the with the vaccine thing, just you could just go through and look at the way CDC changed their ship from like week to week, so the science changed over and over and over. You can provide data on both sides of that point, and that's wind and

boosted and whatever. There might have been some very harmful effects to that with Kevin that were not right. No, And I think that that's why it's like, Okay, like this isn't a one size fits all thing. With the vaccine, it wasn't a one size fits all thing, and that's how it was sold to the people listen. On our show, we said listen. If you are a healthy person, you know whatever, you can make these decisions. If you are a person, if you're elderly, if you're old, no, for sure,

then if you have our recommendation have been provided. Though, like in all things, is the choice to do whichever one you that you want it. And there's the difference in saying if you are a person that's at risk, you should get the vaccine versus saying no one should because there might be I also think the person. That's the difference of saying if you're a person at risk, you should get it, as opposed to saying you have

to get it. Correct. That's what I said. When you tell people they have to do something, they're gonna be like, wait, what, no, we we had to do that. Listen now at this point, it's it's different from cutting a brake, you know, thirty second break, talking up a ramp into you know some new you know, little baby record or something like that, where you're not talking about the stakes aren't that high.

When you're having conversations that are life and death about police killing people, for sure, political political, you can't just have thods you have to. You have to, and then you have to bear in mind that other people have a different vantage point. This is something that I learned, but had to learn even deeper lives doing this show, and we feel like we are setting up a formula and a template, one that will carry into Hip Hop

Weekly magazine, one that will carry into other spaces. On the Black Information Network Daily podcast, they told you exactly the temperament that I have. Where listen, somewhere in the middle, we'll find our way forward. Okay, of course, you don't have to be me. I'm not a trump person, I'm not a Conye, you don't have to do it like me. But listen, listen what I'm saying, and cooler heads will prevail. There's reasonable there's logic and reason on this side of

the argument. And even if you don't come all the way over, you'll least see if you allow me the same, If you listen with open ears and recognize that I am a human being endowed with consciousness from our common creator. I am just like you. I want my sons to watch me grow old and then bury me at the end of my life. Of course, if you want that and I want that, then we have more in common than we have in one hundred percent of difference. And so you can listen to my vantage point, my perspective,

my reality. I can share it with you and then in the middle because I have no problem compromising. This is something black people are very good at, especially in this country's history. Listen, we don't need everything. We don't need it, We don't need much soon. We just need to keep moving in the right direction. We let our brothers and sisters who are in power controlling a lot more than we are at the time, catch up with

where we're going. You know what I mean. But we have found our way through a lot of the muck that this country was born out of, and civic cipher I believe continues in that tradition with the help of you know, our listeners, with the help of you know, the people that support us along the way. Kevin you included you know, uh, doctor Westenberg consults with us. Shout out Chris Thompson from the Black Information Network, Shout out

Tony Cults from Black Information Network. Shout out you know all the programs around the country that carry our show and the programmers that are flirting with carrying our show as well, you know, we are going to do our best to continue to do right by everyone, and as soon as we learn something new that conflicts with something old, we will address it. And if we learn something new that informs our path forward, we will do our best to guide the folks that listen to us that way.

But you need to believe in the heart and the temperament and the tone of the show in order to ride this way with us. But we feel like we are committing our lives to a cause that will make significant changes for all of us, not just black and brown people, but all of us, because we do feel that our brothers and sisters from the Caucasian tribe deserve to learn how to be the best version of themselves

right as they possibly can be. They deserve that, and if we can show them what that looks like from our perspective, then we feel like they welcome that too. This is why we're on the air in Massachusetts and you know, shoot Vermont right places that you know what I'm saying, where there's not you know, Mississippi it makes sense, you know Louisiana, you know New Orleans that makes sense at you know, those make sense. But you know places where people are really like, hey, we'd love to carry

the show. It's because of those type of people as well, So shout out to them. If you are listening to my voice, you are my sister. If you're listening to my voice and my brother, we are. We are trying to do something here. Support us Civic Cipher dot com, b I N News dot com, hip hopwekly dot com. Well, what's the instagrams for everybody? Hip Hop Weekly? Uh, Civic Cipher and I am qward at Jah. Yeah, there it is. I don't even think I said my name. So you're allowed,

you guys. You guys put everything on YouTube too, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're we're revamping the YouTube right now. But by the time you hear this, we'll have a whole new approach to our YouTube because we really want to make sure that we're uh hitting people the way that that we need to on that platform. We we we created a radio show and it's grown beyond borders. Yeah. And if you're out there selling white Lives Matter shirts, you're about

to get sued by Morris Just sue Kanye, just do it. No, man, we if we see someone profiting, you know, I gotta feel like he's gonn try to sell those shirts. Well, he's got to talk to us first. Otherwise, I don't think anybody wants to half. We don't want to it first, well listen, we don't want to him to jump off the porch. Listen, we don't want to come see us afterwards. Honestly, Well, there it is. It's an excpher. Appreciate your pulling up. We appreciate you bring boom