#127 - Canibus

project out alongside Kill a Priest can't well. Cannabis is on an obviously corrupt and ras cast and we chopped it up. Very interesting conversation, to say the least. It was a long one, but a shout out to odd socks. Go to odd socksofficial dot com, use the keyword or

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We got a special guest man, this guy someone who is a legend, someone who I remember the trip to the Warehouse record store when I bought your first album and that was it ninety seven? It was it ninety eight. Well, if you bought a single would have been in ninety seven. No, it was the album, so it was ninety eight, ninety eight, Yeah,

number eighth. Yeah. I always play my like I'm driving in the car and when my son tries to yell at me for saying the word retarded, I play your song and I'm like, yo, there is a fucking song called get retarded when I was a kid. So fuck off. We from different eRASS, you know what I mean. But man, welcome cannabis the legend. Yes, sir, you got a new album out too. Yeah yeah, Kaiju right, Kaiju Kaiju? So

ask me what you want to know about? Yeah, what is what is the what's what's that's what's tell us about the title. Well, first of all, start there. Yeah, pretty much. Kaiju was so that that's the that's the word or the term that was coined to uh, pretty much, you know, the umbrella for all those like those gods Zilla movies, those big monster movies, you know, you know, Japanese folklore and uh, you know before all the animations panimations you had. We grew up on it. I mean,

I don't know where you were born. I was born in eighty seven. No, I was I was born in eighty seven. You were old enough definitely to like, on a Saturday, you know, get up and see like all of these you know, all the stuff going on on a Saturday with after the cartoons of course, they go through the you know, the Mystery Science Theater and they and all of these. So Kaiju is the name that it embodies all of those types of films. Free it

means big, means like monster some monster shit. Yeah. Well yeah, but sometimes the monsters were good guys though, So I don't know if they were monsters you know all the way. Sometimes they were good guys. Just sometimes you need a really big fix for a big problem. Right, So cads, you I'm a good monster. I feel like you've been extremely like you know you also the Horsemen project. Finally we got that right, shout out to the Horseman team.

That's right, it's been a long time coming. I just I feel like you you you come in and out of hip hop, like we won't hear from you, and then we'll be like, oh shit, there's there's a Horseman album, or there's a new Cannabis album, or like, you know, you're what I like to call it. I always say that there's a few Jedies in the rap game, and I think you are one of the Jedies when it comes to just your abilities when it comes to this rap shit, Like how passionate are you about making music still?

So that's a big complishment. I really appreciate you even saying it's a big compliment, man, pretty much, huge compliment. I was a Star Wars fan growing up. You know, you know there's a few there's there's a handful of Jedis in the one of them, man is. But to be one of them, it's a lot. It's a lot of pressure to even take on that title, right, So I can't really I can't take credit for it. I can't take on that title. But to even be considered and you know, have my name in the hat. It's

a big deal to me. And that's the way I kind of kind of run through it now in my mind.

And also in practice where hip hop, you know, the real moguls out there, the ones who make all the decisions, you know, the taste makers, the kingmakers, those are I guess the real jedis Man because they were able to maneuver through a lot of the bear traps, a lot of the you know a lot of the things that were set up to like derail artists who had certain certain elements to them that maybe you know, was wasn't uh you know, you know it wasn't wasn't mainstream ready, right,

you know, certain little facets of people in their music that you know, the system didn't really want to. I mean, if we take it back to the days of like n w A right, the title is an acronym y because at that time, no one was able to handle with the name really meant actually you know what I mean. And then I mean, look at there's that album from Nas right there, which originally wasn't going to be called

n Okay. Yeah, album was going to be called you know the Hard R. So you and I we we were participating in the culture at the time when we couldn't even say the things that people say. Now, we kind of took all the heat from making it possible to say whatever the hell you want and express yourself. And so, you know, like I said, the Moguls are probably the real Jedi. We're like me and myself. The Mogos can't craft a thirty two bar verse like you can.

You know what I just mean in terms of like your abilities, you're you know, like when we think of like NBA two K and we look at someone's rankings, like your rapping ability is like a ninety nine. You know, it's not. Look, I really do appreciate you and for saying that, and I appreciate that, and I appreciate you know, the fans, the Brotherhood, people that you know say it

out loud, they think it out loud. But like I said, the moguls in my mind, the moguls like the people who are on the phone twenty four hours a day, Like, just give you an example of it, like a Jedi to me, that would be liked. And yeah, because without without people like that, your record doesn't see the light of day. See what I'm trying to say, yeah, because you know, some if we if we, if we use your you know, your perspective, want then these Jedis, man,

these Jedis can't even get their record played. These Jedis can't get an interview right now. These Jedis can't make you get what I'm trying to say. That's that's why, that's why we you know, that's why I just fall back, you know, stay in my lane now. I enjoy it, you know what I mean. Life is not all rap, no matter what people think. You know what I mean, and just spread it out and try to, you know, try to try to try to get the best of

what's what's left for us. You know, we're all we're all like nearing half a century now, everybody for my era, well near half a century. So you know, you just said life isn't all rap. And I feel like you are somebody who embraced that concept relatively early on in your career. It was all rap for me, but I mean for somebody who was so dedicated to being right to your craft, right like I feel like you know, you know, I feel like you know, when you enlisted

and to join the you know, the armed services. Like, sometimes you get so wrapped up in perception, you know, the hip hip hop is all about perception, right, Like when we like I had a you know, I'm real cool with Little Brother, Okay, so uh, big rapper Big Pooh and Fonte a couple of other jedis right, but

Big Pooh you know, openly talked about her. He was driving uber, you know, just for some money on the scrip, and like to me, it was like, yeah, that's that's okay, because this is not We're all real, real human beings, and sometimes we get so wrapped up in like perception,

because that's really what the hip hop game is. It's like it's kind of like it's like it's like a weird like here sport and I feel like you kind of exist in your own world where you can come in, drop an album, yeah, and then we might not hear from you for like another year, you know what I mean? Like why or how it was like that? That's a little bit about my pay grade to even try to quantify how it got like that. But I feel like at all times, I feel like at all times, all

of the artists that come from our era multitasking. I mean, you know, a lot of us come from single parent at homes, you know what I mean, Like we were all doing things that we were able to multitask and you know, helping Mama pay the bills, or helping grandma you know, get this together, and you know, helping Grandpa going down. We all from my error, We came from that, right, And I'm talking about the things that are favorable and

the things that are not so favorable. Right. He did whatever it took to you know, make o make our family proud, or you know, bring home the bacon, right. And so you know, I think that during our eraror we were all able to jump rope in a lot of different ways. You probably had to too, right because the deals back then were a lot more predatory as well. Yeah, but I mean when it look even when time to go to like sam ash or jur Music World or

you know, uh, you know, you know the Guitar Center. Right. Remember, we were the ones that the kid the machines, these drumming sheines, and we were the ones that would take the dis equipment showing what it could really do. Right. They didn't have anybody else who could even work these machines out the way that we could, but you still had to buy it. Man. You still had to put plastic onto somebody that had to come in here and out of co sign it. Or you work in one, two,

three jobs to get the cash. Or you know a homie that is already getting it like that and he'll spot you the bread to go, get the equipment to go, make the samples to go, make the demos to go get you know, make the deal. You see what I'm trying to say. There were always multiple steps that had to be taken to get on. So paying dues was not a short It wasn't a short term thing. Man, Like you kind of were in it before you knew what it was about what you were trying to get to.

You were looking at it through a telescope. When you got to it, you realize that that role was a little bit more arduous than you thought it was. And so, like I said, man, I just feel like we all were doing more at that time to get on. We were all more we have more solid footing when we got there. But as we grew, so did the majors.

So did those that you know paid our checks, those the buildings that we kept the lights on and they also grew, and I guess at some time they started, you know, they had to cut weight, right, They had to. When it was time for them to get into a championship fight, they had to cut weight. And so when they cut weight, they would they would always cut what maybe wasn't keeping the lights on as long, right, And obviously that's going to always gravitate back towards branding, right.

And the people who were branding were the corporate guys, you know, the clothing manufacturers and stuff like that. And funny enough because here we are again right back into this. You know a lot of new things that are coming out, they need people to brand it. But they don't need rap anymore. Now. All they need is social media. We were hip hop. We were the world's first social media. Yeah, rap was, Yeah, for sure. You guys are at the

first influencers. You were the first man. Because you think about it, nowadays, you just find someone who's got you know, some kids who's got fifteen million followers on TikTok. It doesn't really have a talent, but they can pop your ship off. Back then, you needed Ray Kwan to wear Tommy, you know what I mean. You needed jay Z to pop your crystal. You know what I mean? Now, you

just like, yeah, it's crazy. You know it's crazy because I feel like you when we you know, and maybe would know this, we always hear of the lyrical spiritual miracle rappers. You've heard that term, right. I feel like you are the quintessential when we think of the lyrical spirits. I feel like when people say that I think of cannabis. You have so many intricate Ryan Patterson, fucking the vocabulary is insane. You're fucking I feel like sometimes I'll be

hearing you wrapping. It's like math problems and all kinds of algorithmic shit going on. Like I feel like you are that guy, Like what do you like explain to me your writing process. So in the beginning, it's funny you say that because in the beginning, we were all lyrical miracle guys, right, you know what I'm saying. And but then because that's what we get on if we just say lyrical, because you know, you're saying lyrical, so you're look at the next words around with lyrical, you

know what I'm saying. So the lyrical miracles, spiritual individual that we were all that in the beginning, all of us were then and then it got to the point where some artists came out and they were more you know, to the to that the blink I'm not I'm not singling out you know, shout out the cash money, but I'm not singling them out blink the bling phase because

they started to bring error, right. So when so when the blink ra came and so much bread was being made from it that you know, everybody started getting bread on that side of things. And then the lyrical miracle dudes was just the backpackers, you know, and they lyrical miracle dues broke and they had nothing. So then you found dudes there were lyrical miracles, you know, laughing at other lyrical miracles. Wait a minute, there was a yeah, yeah, and then and then and then and then and then.

So one of my homies does he doesn't say the lyrical miracle, he's with the fly died with tired eyed, with mind die. Yeah, So that's what that's what it became. And you know, it's kind of crazy when you got your own you know, dudes come from the same cloth, you know, rhym ability wise, laughing at the lyrical miracles. So then because you know, the machine helped them get the bread. You can't get the bread, and then certain

things started happening. So yeah, man, I mean, you know, I was happy to graduate out of the lyrical miracle phase because it was a phase we all go through. Then I got into the poetry and I did that probably circle around what I say for whom to be Tolls seven. That's when it got to where the rhymes that were coming out of my mouth no one could shadow them. You didn't know what I was gonna say next,

because you know, lyrical wasn't going round with miracle. I was gonna make lyrical rhyme with mo libd in them, you know what I mean. So yeah, but that that lyrical miracle era was fun. I just think like I think, like you know, I guess since since uh you know, I think if your era was like guys like yourself, like like Raz like obviously a guy who's a partner in the Horseman shout to rationals, make sure this friend's amazing.

But then I think even after that, like I think of like at least on the forefront commercially wise, like I think Loupe is one of those guys who's just like a fucking alien. You know, they didn't let us have a lane though, like they we had a lane and no one set up an HOV lane force. There was no hov lane force. We were we were still getting in and out of lanes and really had no place. There was no home for us, you know, yeah, no

for sure. And you know what's crazy is like we think back, like what you just said, there was lyrical guys calling out lyrics like there was a divide, And I think back to how crazy it was when con Ye West put Talib quality or I'm sorry when jay Z put Tallip Quali in that when he said I'd probably be lyrically taylib Kwali And I'm like yo to think that there was a point in time where we thought that jay Z and Talib were so far apart when they aren't at all, and like you know it,

or when Most Deaf and Freeway were put on that record up to was it two words right at the end of college Dropout by Kanye West. It was so weird because it felt like Kanye brought two worlds together, Most Deaf and Freeway when in gen like they're they're the same shit. But that's where things are so different now, because now there's like real serious divides in hip hop as far as like, you know, back then, it was like, hey, it's just somebody happened to have a commercial record deal

and maybe have a club record. But at the same time, you know, racist records felt so far away from rock Fellow restaurants, but they weren't really were they really like no, of course not like and even then, like you mentioned cash Money, like Little Wayne's one of the greatest rappers of all time, absolutely, you know what I mean. But when you heard the Rockers records though, like, but the owner of that at the time, it's like it's like a super mongul and but no one knew that though, right,

No one knew that. So it just felt like there was this huge divide between like the backpack shit, the you know, we would consider the quote unquote real hip hop R and the commercial shit, which was also real

hip hop. Like now I feel like there is a serious like, you know, at least maybe not as much anymore as there was like a few years ago when the SoundCloud shit really went crazy and Little Pump was fucking huge, and I was really like, Okay, I'm old, right, Yeah, I feel you know, but I do think it's dope that now, no matter what, the last ten to twelve years,

the top four guys are all amazing. Drake J Cole, Kendrick Lamar, these guys are all absolutely Yeah, these guys are all like at the forefront of hip hop, right, and they're all extremely high level, high caliber talented rappers keeping the lights on as well, right, Yeah, they keep the lights on at every label that they're at. But

they also are incredibly talented. So I think it just says that like, no matter what, like there might be eras where people come and go, but that the cream is always gonna rusch to the top and be the constant, you know what I mean? Right, who are you a fan of? Like, who do you listen to that's you know, maybe not from your era, that's a little bit newer that like you really respect As far as on the mic, I mean, you know, got to tell you, man, it

just it just ranges. Man, It depends on who. Like baby might come on, niece's nephews to come over the house. They're playing stuff you know they want to listen to that you know, I might have to sit and lend an ear to it because you know, watching over them for a little bit, right and you hear the music and what they're saying, Like the delivery now is a lot tighter from these little younger than it was when we were coming up. Oh yeah, man, yeah, the melodics

is amazing. People are making great records right now. They're making good records. But also you know, and content wise, I want to make the distinction, like they don't have enough experience to make the poetry that that the area, enough life, enough life experiences. There's no way and no way for them to put that kind of poetry together. They'll get there, but in so far as the delivery, you know, it amazes me even how they're able to

do that. And some of them don't have any classical musical training, Like they don't even know people talking about bars and don't believe you know, what the bar is, right, So that's always going to be something that you got to look at, you know, raise a brow or two to know that. I guess they're just born with it now, like instinctually they come out the womb and they have a metronome that they can follow, and they can double time. I'm just on que they can double time. They can

you know they can switch up to time signatures. Like what they do now is amazing. But like I said, the older generation when it maybe look you know, if they were looking for anything from the newer generation, the ladies generation, they'll be looking for, you know, certain things content wise, but you know they can't provide that yet.

But they'll get there. And then when they get there, the next graduating class will be coming in and they'll be speaking about something they'll probably be delivering, you know, through some kind of AI metaverse. You know what I'm saying.

People rhyming with the goggles on for sure. I mean, and once you got that and you got backgrounds going on, and you got now you know, who can compete with that, right because visually you're giving whatever consumers at that time is going to be looking You're giving them something that you know, the eraror that we're looking at now that's maybe two behind us. They wouldn't even be able to

compete with them. So this is this is a cyclical cycle, you know, cyclical, it's going to continue you on and on. I really I look at it as like an observer man from the outside. Man, I just I just break out the popcorn. Bro. I'm say, when you're listening to music, you're still listening to a lot of hip hop. Not really, not really man, you know what I'm saying. I throw

to tell you. I know it sounds crazy, man, but you know, if I go on you know, if I'm on the XFM, I'm just listening to like, uh, you know, music that has no words, you know what I mean. Like I might sit there and just listening to Nora im Pure, you know what I mean, right, because riding around it makes me feel rich. You know, if I'm listening to Nora and Pure, it makes me feel rich. If I'm listening to you know this, this MC or this rap kid on here talking about I don't feel rich.

I feel like, damn, I feel broke as fuck. You know, just got just that in the third I don't got that, you know what I mean. I'd rather just listen to something that, you know, it's just a little bit more you know, soundscape, you know, heavy bass, tempo, going crazy, you know what I mean, something that you could just relax your mind to. Because you really sit down and listen to these guys, man, you can feel like you're missing out on all the good things in life. Raps

shouldn't really be like that, man. You shouldn't have to listen to rap and feel like you're missing out on life. Should be listening to rap and feel like, you know, like like Okay, this is where I want to be, but rap now makes you feel like you're not where you want to be and you made a mistake and I need to do what you're doing. It's been like that for a while. I mean you mentioned the bling blinger.

I think it really started pretty pretty heavily, you know, with cash money, because it's like your bird man's rapping about having a fucking a car with a driver's seat in the middle. Yeah. Yeah, but look, you can't put it all on you and some people probably listen like I love that shit. You're gonna give you an insight. I'm gonna give your insight to it. It really, it really didn't start with those guys, man, Like those guys

were just answering a call. It started with our magazines, right, So so you had these magazines, like you know the magazines, Yeah, yeah, other magazines, others, right, all of them. Right, there was a time when those magazines were very thin because there were no ads in them. Then they all got loaded up, and once they got loaded they got thicker, not just in the back, also in the middle of the peel outs. Right once they went there, anybody could go look it

up and see. That's when the article started to go from being favorable or agreeable, like like, oh yeah, we got such and such most you know, most loved, or you know someone who's known for such and such, like all accolades and praise right to to oh yeah, the East Coast West Coast War started because such and such they sent. And then that was in bold lettering, and then the division started, right, that's when the division started.

The division started when magazine started to put in bold writing disagreements that people had that had nothing to do with the album outright, but they grabbed the narrative. They were grabbing narratives and now poisonous, poisonous to us, and they fed it back to us. And so you know, you know what happens when you feed bovine cow bovine bones, right,

what happened? It breaks down, It degenerates, right, it turns into like you know that mass Yeah, I think I think obviously a disease, right, But what they did to us they fed us our own dead, right. I mean I think when when when when these magazines realized that's what sold? Because think about it, back then, you couldn't go on social media and address someone directly or in

real time. Right, it was like I got to wait to see what they say in the next vibe or I you know, it was so much, he said, she said, because there was no direct to consumer way to communicate with fans. Well, yeah, but I mean you got to take responsibility. You know, everybody's got to be accountable, right, like if in other there were other magazines, you know, skiing, biking,

you know the stuff that William Randolph Hurst did. You know everything was for photography, skiing, biking, boating, all the I's right, he just got them all and he added I G to every hobby, every record, recreational pastime, and it sold. You go look at those magazines. They were dividing their own culture. You didn't need to see people dividing celle craft with you know, diesel engines versus gas.

You know, people make comparisons, but they didn't make it to where like you know, don't buy this, you know, mirror. But but like right, look right, it's only in rap, and so that's that tells you that there was an agenda involved, you know. But what confuses me always is that rap just kind of keeps going down the same circle that those same bear traps pitfalls. It just they just break out the same you know, a recurring pitfall every five or ten years, and people fall into it.

For example. I don't understand how the owners of these magazines didn't see ten years ahead in the future, which ain't even long. Can't you see that by putting these things, by grabbing the narrative and making it negative in your magazine, right, can't you see that, all that's gonna do is push your magazine out the window eventually to where you're not gonna have the staff. You know, you eventually you're going to kill your own culture through the magazine. Right, You're

gonna kill your magazine. The the the platforms are gonna change and to go online. Now you don't have a staff anymore. Right. And I can say this because I was I lived it. Like you know, when you had promotion and marketing. Man, there was a time and you're from a relatively same era, there was a time when craft services used to get money from coming to our videos, coming to the you know, to the meet and greets, just parking the truck outside the food truck outside the promotions.

The marketing promotions. Guys used to get bootgoo bucks. Man. They used to go, Yeah, they have to go to the record stores and make sure you had your your setup and your posters in the record stores. Yeah, you know, somebody making some clothes. You know, just got some some garms and stuff. Like everyone was getting paid. Everybody was getting bread or that's what I'm saying. It was coming out of your budget. I'm talking about the self I'm about.

I'm talking about self man, I'm not I'm not talking about labels paying people. I'm talking about people making the work that you was able to get it all back through being busy every day doing what you loved. That just the time where we were still doing what we loved, and like I said, things just started to get strained and it's like they put us through some kind of a funnel and what came out the other end was all right, well, now you just upload your music and

we don't need anybody to promote it. You can pay for the promoting, But that just means we're just gonna digitally send a signal and ping a website and get avatars and you get bots right right, so you know, and it's it's really alarming. Man. You just look and you see how much power does the average rapper have? Man? Not much? And that's crazy to me. Yo, you mentioned the metaverse a bit earlier, but I know that you you you're in the NFT space a bit. Yeah, the metaverse. Yeah,

I'm listening. But I'm just curious, like what you've always kind of been ahead of the curve when it comes to be online shit or just certain shit like total curse man, talk about the n f T ship man, because obviously, I think a lot of artists are still trying to figure out the space. It's new, starting to kind of understand what it is, but at the same time are very disconnected to what it really is. So, so you're in the space, how are you feeling about

like kind of just that whole side of the game. Okay, so a lot a lot of it. You know, I'm only qualified to speak on a fraction of what what an NFT can do or where it's going, right, mainly because a lot of the you know, you got to be a colder, man like. You really have to you know, really know what you're doing, man like, because I've worked with some of those guys, and I mean they're like brainiacts man, you know, and most of them, from what

I see, they're like our age. They're not little youngest because they had to go and invest the time to learn these programs and they have to know how to cold. And even now as you talk about like, if you want to go build a website, you got to go get somebody from India to do it. Right. When I remember when I was building spitballs dot com. This is a long time ago, this is twenty ten, and you know, my team and I, you know, were handling building spitballs dot com. And I got to tell you, man like,

there were only two coders in the country. One was in Miami and when it was in Colorado that could have built the site. So we had to outsource to India. No problem with that. It's just that India has different holidays from us, so we were trying to get things done. It was like, oh man, they're on holiday. Got to hit them back this time, you know, O Ramadan, look, can't do your cipher right. So that's kind of crazy considering it. And it's been like that for a long time.

And so NFTs. While there's a lot to it and there's a lot that can happen because of it, I think Rap's gonna miss the boat with it again, man, because once again, you know, they're not our own people are not They're not paying attention to the ones who stand to gain and lose the most if we don't get some thing like that for ourselves and not listening

to them. They want to go run to just the corporate the corporate masters, right that that you know really kind of don't care one way or another if you make something that your grandchildren are going to be able to tap into to you know, go to school, you know, get higher education, right. And that's not my acts to grime, man, I'm just saying that to even sit up here and talk about NFT stuff. I mean, I was talking about cannabis dot com and nobody gave a ship you mean

me to talk about it now? Nobody? I mean people people are giving I mean you, I tell you just had some NFTs. I mean how many? I tell you? Just put up an n f T, right, I don't have any NFTs if you go online and you look

for cannis nts. You don't have any cannabis enttis. But the whole thing is that, you know, I'm I'm orbiting the technology and I'm orbiting the n f T world because there are things that are works of art that I would like to you know, I would I would like to either ascertain or you know, have investors, you know, angel investors come in and as right, because okay, so this this board ape you know NFT for y'all clup thing right now? Now you look at that right now,

If you look at it, it's colorful. It does draw on you a little bit when you look at it, right to at least for you to scroll and look at the next one, and you think maybe that, like, you know, maybe there's a maybe there's a like a a hip you know, someone that has like hip hop roots behind it, and it's probably not, probably not, And that's kind of like crazy, So where so where are the hip hop guys that because the prices of those things are insane right so so so how how would

we ever be able to participate in something like that when it's happening right now and none of us are in that space? So it's almost like is it too late or like do you think it's too late for people to get into that. It's too late. It's too late because of the division that you talked about earlier, because it's like, you know, no one's going to pull together enough to go do that everyone else. I mean, now that we're speaking about that, let me, let me

let me pretty much. So I don't have all the answers for that, but I do have a place that has the answers for it, right that I know of that I've that I've all right, so you know this is what I just throw this out your ok rippers, investors, Hood for lamp Hood for Lampith, philanthropists, Grandpas with big coins, Grandmams with shit coins. Look into ee pictorial app available on Google Play, i pictoria dot com Secure your future with customized I pictorial iovs. That's Internet of Value tools.

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with long reach. Right, I just said that on there, Right, I'd be surprised to see how many people go there and try to take advantage of or look into what's there for them right now, you know, X amount of days later after this broadcast, I'll find out, right, and most likely, like the way that I see it is because I said it, no one cares, right, But this company they're building on their own without me saying that, right, So they're probably gonna grab onto something else out there

that's gonna win. And then you know, we're gonna be looking at the people who we told about it, like but we told you though, right, and they're gonna run off with somebody else that's gonna you know, distribute their their music's, put their take their names sake, you know, you know, get their their crypto world together, you know, while it's you know, get all that stuff is very important, and I know why, but I can't say it why because it doesn't matter unless they go look a look

into an I pictorial. The I patorial app right. But one day, very soon, they're gonna wake up and they're gonna be in that world already. You can't buy anything in that world. You're not gonna be able to uh earn it. You're gonna be able to get any air drops. You're not gonna be get it. You're just gonna wake up. You're just gonna owe it, and you're gonna have to go to work until get it. And in the same way we have to do that for the US dollars.

You got to earn the US dollar. So one day you're not gonna be able to purchase into that world, right, You're gonna have to work into that world. That's right, which is which is a crazy I mean, that's a crazy thought. And its eventually for us though, I think that us we're gonna still be able to do what we do and do we're we're good at doing. It's the new generation. Man. We're talking about our kids here, about our grant and children. This is what we're really

talking about. And we're talking about that kind of stuff. That's what we're really talking about, because we're able to we're able to get it in so many different ways. No, you're right, you're right, right, this is probably maybe fifty one hundred years away. Yeah, you know, I wanted to talk to you, so I know. I'm sure you saw. Uh was it? Ll got into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That's right, he got inducted, right, he

got inducted, and he shot it. He shouted you out just about a month now, right, he has been a month ago, and he shouted you out in the speech, which I thought was dope because, in my opinion, bring top three battles. As a kid, I remember obviously second Round Knockout, and I remember going and buying DMX's It's Dark and Hell Is Hot, the bonus disc version, because the second there was a there was a Deaf Jam version of that album that had a bonus disc in

it that had the Ripper strikes back on it. Right, right, Yeah, that's right. And I just remember knowing both of those records by heart and just thinking, like day, like I like just it was such a just an epic time, epic battle. But I always felt like there was always respect, and I thought it was just so dope to see all these years later, ll just show you some love, you know. I mean, it's a shame that we didn't

WWF it right. And what I mean by that is like, like, why couldn't there have been some wise elder right to come out and just say, all right, listen, man, you guys kissing makeup right now, right but on the screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, do that, and let's all really just get rich, and let's let's go ahead and create to do this, take this template and do it every time rap artists getting too beef. Instead, for us, there was no WWF. They put everybody in a situation like this is real. You

can't sleep tonight because you got dissed. You know what I'm saying. You can't show your face because you got dissed. You're under pressure because you got dissed. You you know what I mean, You're not You're not the artist that we all thought you word because you got dissed. Like hip hop kind of did a number on the both of us, I think, and every artist thereafter and before

that got into you know, disagreements with each other. There was no at no time there on my watch was I able to witness someone that was wise coming into the fray right and saying, you know what, there's a way the w W F this where everyone gets paid. That's right, and we take our wrapper hats off at the end of the night. Never happened. Never happened. So

that's how I look at the whole thing. I don't everything y'all talk about what y'all saying to me, man, it's Chinese, because what everybody else is talking about it is something that still we spent five minutes talking about this so far, it makes no money, nobody gets anything from it. But on the w w S side of things, they eat bro and I'm not slow, yeah, and I'm not slow. So I kind of feel I kind of I feel assaulted. I feel like I got stuck with

the dummies, you know what I mean. I got put into the genre music guy had to get to do that with the dummies, you know what I mean. I should have been on another side where it's like, you know, somebody the wise man comes down off the off the mountain. He's got the plan and he says, I like what you guys, just did you know what let's go get some money with it instead on this side of thing and wrapped, almost like a Paul Hayman. That's right, let's do it. But on this side of the thing, we wrap.

The guy comes off the top of the mountain. He says, man, you won't believe what he said to me about you up there. Man, if I was you might go up there. You see what I'm trying to say. I hear what you're saying. And then they just wipe us out. We wipe ourselves out, and I and I'm confused as to how nobody has can see it yet. Yeah, I mean and if and hey, look there might be situations that we just aren't privy to where that it might have happened. You know, I don't know. I just don't love you

that bullshit now, I don't know. I don't know the way word of mouth goes on and wrap. You're right, it's a bunch of commons. B Yeah. So when you when when you heard him shout you out, like I mean, obviously that was the phone went crazy. The texts were crazy, you know, you know, I was I didn't even remember what I was doing at the time. Oh, I was writing, I was writing for Kaiju. I was writing, I was writing, I was I was vocaling, right, I was vocaling, and

I put the phone on airplane mode. So when I took it off, it was like a thing went crazy. And then I was like, oh, man, I just not stupid. I'm thinking of something stupid. I'm thinking. He got up there and said, yo, man, I want to see cannabis in the pine box. I'm saying, I'm just telling you right what I thought when I looked at it, and then when I heard it was the opposite. You know,

it did feel good, you know, no wild now wow. Now, while of course, you know, what if I was like stuck somewhere in South Africa, right, and I couldn't get back to the States or right, what if I'd been human traffic somewhere right, think about this, right, what if I was somewhere else unable to communicate back right? But

I heard about that how you're supposed to feel. You're not supposed to feel like this, shout out, it's any kind of guiding light from the creator, like, you know, just hang in there, kid, you're at it, right, And then this is not the way that rap I feel in the beginning, this is not the way that it

was meant to develop. I don't feel that way because every other the word team, the word genre, the word group, the word I mean, just any synonym to you know, like like a group, right people, right, any other synonym is going to you look up the examples, or you look up something that's comparable. You're going to see that. We don't leave nobody behind, you know what I mean? All right? You know what. We keep our scuffles inside the family. You know what I mean. Everybody all desk,

got to be paid, so forth and so on. But you know what, we don't leave nobody behind. Man, rap, Bro, I'm I'm I'm good man, I'm good because you know what I mean. I got other things doing and working right. But for those who don't, you gotta you gotta guess. List so long and wrap of people that can come up here and talk about being left behind. I'm telling you, bro, it's not something made right with that picture. Man. I agree. I mean, I'm not here to fix it either, But

you're right, you're right, so don't so. I don't want anybody to come talk to me like I'm slow about a shout out or something like that. I'm not miserable about it. I'm saying it. Don't don't even waste my time, man. You know what I mean about something that it doesn't mean anything. You know what I'm saying it? Wait hold on, time to stop the interview because we got to talk about our good folks at odd Socks. Man. Listen. If you go to odd Socksofficial dot com, that's O D

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You Mike Geronimo DMX pun most depth, right, that's correct, n Forte. I remember that vaguely anyway. It's like, uh, one of the more historical just ciphers that was ever captured from that era. Yeah, you know, you know Tore Tore should have Tore should have guy gave us like he did. Somebody did tell us to due sign offs she to should have gave us like a percentage on that. Yeah. Tori was the guy he ended up, you know, the journalist journalist. Yeah you've been Yeah. I remember seeing his

face on CNN one day, like, yo, that dude. It's like the Beef DVD, right, I remember, so QD three shout out to QD three. Yeah, Quincy Jones Sun, that's right, that's right. But I mean it's like, you know, a percentage on that would have been nice, you know. Yeah, the fact that he made so much money on three with three or four of those dvs, and no one saw anything off of it. Listen to me, man, those beef dvs were moving in the morn style playing. I got three of them, I got my house. Stop playing.

So this this, that's all I'm saying. Man. Like when it just came, it seemed like when it came to rap, Man, it's like win it takes all, you know, And I mean, look, the entertainmentdustry in general is very predatory, right yeah, But hold on though, man, anywhere else in their entertainment industry, Man, there are ancillary you know, like what drops on the head, drips on the shoulder, So there are things that drop

off the tree. Man. It's like it's like, okay, that fruit is ripe or it's over ripe, but it's still sustenance. But then wrap Listen, man, our VA list you know of injured and wounded and you know otherwise is it's it's unbearable. That's true. It's unbearable, and I can't do anything about it. I don't have the resources do anything about it. Every time I try to go get the resources to do something about it, I was blocked one

way or another. Right. The narrative was stolen and taken from me, and the narrative changed into something that was like a had something to do with beef or drama. Right, But I'm only speaking on it now to just kind of just say, hey, just build a little bit of awareness about it and sort of like kind of like,

you know, I put my hat cast. No. I think there's been a bunch of attempts of like, right, like what is like the retirement plan for hip hop or then or just there's so many like why are there more safety nets for artists, you know, like at the end of the day, like if a major label they chew you up and spitch you out if you're not worth anything. So I've heard that on clubhouse, there's been talks about different things like uh, man, I don't want to say the wrong name of the double og and

rap music that is pushing it. I don't want to say the wrong name. So I know that there's somebody's is behind it. That's not the name, I guess. I know there's a few. There's a few, but but but something about having like sit before the Supreme Court signed the petition, sit before the Supreme Court and try to get a like uh uh, benefits, retirement packages, medical things like that for artists right now, great ideas, superb idea. Yeah.

But you know what though, it's too late. And the reason I say that is because how can you go before like the American people or any type of global audience right when you're nearing you know, like I said, our era is half a century and right, and then those that came a little bit ten years before, it's sixty sixty years in or better then you got those

are the seventy and nearing eighty. How are you going to sit in front of you know, three generations later, you're sitting in front of them and you're asking them for more money. When we travel the globe, we made the money. You see what I'm trying to say, it's a little bit it's a little bit lopsided. Right, These things should have kind of been set up before. So now you know the little things we were talking about earlier.

Now you might want to try to, you know, try to steer the youngins in a certain direction to secure their own futures, and then you kind of get blocked with that too. So it's kind of like we're railroaded either way, you know, what I mean, because there are things now that they could do to secure their future.

So I think that there's literacy, right, It's like I feel like I feel like unfortunately, like like we're talking about retirement plans and stuff, like any artists, they're just a little bit more and we're talking about eighteen nineteen year old kids, you know what I mean, just trying to improve their life conditions. Absolutely, so they're just gonna sign. But at the same time, it's like, man, like, we

just got to do a better job. And I think we are part of the first generation that's probably taking financial literacy a little bit more serious. Of course, of course, but you know a lot of that stuff like Unfortunately, like you said, it's probably never gonna happen. So it's really up to the artists. Up to the artists. You gotta take care of your shit, because because all that we could do accumulatively is set up some type of

safety net for those that they're not done. Their careers are not over the music, right, but the safety net is there to kind of get them back on track if they do want to. You don't get back into it right, right, This should be some kind of a some kind of a safety net from somewhere, but that really doesn't exist. I don't think it it will exist. So it's up to the individual literacy, right, So basically

we're asking, we're asking. We're asking youngins who came and you know, dedicated, they committed everything, you know, the hip hop. You know, they took on the risk, they took on I mean everything. They went into these dark rooms, you know, they went in there with these mvgs on. They did their best. They they you know, they they did everything that you know, most people be scared to do, terrified,

petrified to do. These little youngers we're here and did this, and we're asking them to go in there and do all of this and not have any There's nothing on the other side for them, you know what I mean. And that's kind of I yell, man, I just yo, man. I guess so like defeated even thinking about it. I mean, look, it's like it's like any any if anybody ever told you, like, hey,

look this is your career. But there's no you know, when you sign up to be a doctor or a lawyer or anything, you know that there's a safety net, you know what I mean, there might be benefits whatever it is, take me back to those that night from that cipher Big Pond is one of my favorite ever, I mean most, I mean, I mean, this is just this is a crazy night in hip hop. DMX is there, I mean, you're there, Like, what what do you remember

about that night in those circumstances from that night? I remember that in that room as as as tense as it was because of what we all were trying to do in our own lives. We all wanted to come out make our impacts, you know, playing our flags in the ground right and firmly make an impact in hip hop across the world. That's what we wanted to do.

We were all American artists, you know, you know, of course, coming from different lineages, right, and everyone on the cusp of being the next big thing, and right right right and then and then ethnically it was it was really spread out all throughout, you know what it was spread It was spread out, It was spread out round table, right.

But in spite of how intense it was, what I what I distinctly remember was as much as each one of us was willing to go hard with them rhymes and other things to make that statement, there was still complete love in that room, and you can look at it and tell like like there was love for each other, in respect for each you know, that's what you didn't see anything jump off in there. There was like unbecoming of you know, artists that are kind of liking their

freshmen role trying to get it popping. Like we showed love to each other and that and were there was no security there. We didn't need any extra There was no hype man there, there was no there was no squads. Nobody had a whole squad standing outside the door like so that much I remember. I remember that there was love in that room. And the love I think was probably uh, it was probably resonant because of the lyrical mirror ability, right everybody we all had that ability, and

so everybody respected when another's paying game. And we all knew consciously and subconsciously that we were kind of like all up against the same machine. We weren't up against each other. We were up against the same machine because we were trying to get something from the machine in order to go feed our little huskies in our munchkins and you know, and branch out. And so that's what

I remember from that. Everything else is kind of like a blur wow, because I don't think anybody could have for seeing how special of a moment that would have been in a few like you, like it's lived on it's on YouTube, Like no one knew YouTube was gonna need You didn't know how that moment was gonna be. Yeah, but see twenty years down the line, right and right, you're right one percent. And also I feel like no one in the room was kind of thinking, you know, well,

let's come back and do this twenty years later. Let's let's do this. Let's let's make it this ten year anniversary. Every ten years we come back to a round table. You know, tore just took took the percentage of the royalty and just ran off. You know, Toray didn't even you know, Torey, I'm waiting on my call, man, Like, let's let's do round table part two. Let's he did he monetize that? Man? Look? Man to see him on CNN, Man, I see him on CNN. Yeah, man, you know that

came from somewhere right. You know, I'm just messing with you to Ray like it's all love. Man, I'm just saying to you that in general, though no one turned it into Like what I'm trying to say is and wrap you know everything else. Man, they franchise everything rap. You know, we do it late, and if we do it, we don't allocate the funds properly. It's just it's crazy. Man, we're the trendsetters. But that's not what sets us back. What sets us back. It's how we like, how we

allocate and how we you know, adjudicate. Yeah, I think that, like we said earlier, right, I think that finally there's a generation of I think the newest generation of artists is finally starting to become hip to that, right, you know, the fourth wall's kind of broken down. You know, there's a direct to consumer connection with fans now that never existed, right, true.

So imagine if in nineteen ninety eight you had your opportunity to talk to your fans directly, address them directly or say hey, swipe up on my story and by you know, the new fucking cannabacility or whatever, you know what I'm saying. Like, it's just I think now that the fourth walls kind of start to be broken down.

Like there are a lot of artists who are taking advantage of the things that they try to I guess maybe keep from the artists, you know, because yeah, yeah, okay, so when I understand exactly what you're saying, and you know, I got a caveat to that. So so yeah, right, get your record uploaded to this site, and they're going to, you know, go ahead and put this out depending on

what package you buy and so forth and so on. Right, but then, but then, but then, you know, then you got guys like like eighty who you know, can give you can make sure that your records get uploaded to these sites or whatever. But there are still hand to hand, you know, I visited them. I went to the warehouses today. You know, I know I've seen I've seen that many posted like there's real physical copies. But that's how it has to be done. It can't just be you uploaded

to a site. You gotta have a middle man that's gonna a Jedi that's gonna go out there and get these things for you. If you just uploaded to a site. I'm here to tell you because I get I get the quarterly, the court, I get the quarterly. It's a it's a much it's a much higher or more steep mountain to climb. To get your money on the street, and I'm gonna sewing you. I'm gonna give you the facts.

I get the envelopes, the quarterly envelopes of the royalties, and you know, you know, zero point zero zero zero one eight is what you get on a play, right, so it's it's an eighth of a penny. So now you know, so you get to a million, two million plays? Right? What is that? Like? Six thirty thirty eight bands? Right? That was fast? All this man's a savant. That was freaking fast. I mean a million on Spotify is about

I like to know, a million on was fast? A million on Spotify's about thirty eight hundred dollars, all right, So so I'm here to tell you, man, like a million on Spotify, that means that you're you're you are obscenely popular right now? Right? Not really popular? Yeah, thirty eight hundred bucks. Hold on, what does thirty eight hundred dollars do for someone who is that popular? Listen, bro all you can do is get into trouble with that.

All you can do is go to the mall right, blow it on next week's outfit, right, and be broke or go or go or pay your rent for the month. That's all you can do. One month, that's all you can do. So now all that you know package just in the GHLFT stream flying here, and that you're putting yourself in harm's way just to catch up to what you've already done. You've already sold a million plays. So this is what I'm talking to you about. You know, let's not let's not let's let's let's call it what

it is here, man, this is already set up. You're already set up for failure. So you know, as opposed to focusing on the beefs and you know, all these things that can be worked out to disagreements to you know, you know what I mean, musical styles. You know who's living on this side of the world and who's living here and there, like, As opposed to focus and all that, there's got to be some kind of a you know

what I'm saying, regulatory body. And I'm talking about even off paper, like nothing that you gotta sign, but just some kind of a lodge, something that's put together. The brothers can come together I'm talking about from all walks of life and try to have strategies that protect us. Right, I'm not trying to do that, just for anybody listening and thinking, like with somebody I'm trying to get I'm not trying to do it. I'm the one to be the one to do it. I wouldn't even take a job.

And then if somebody came to be with something like that. But someone out there that's listening, that has the wherewithal and the and the and the mental faculty to handle the pressure of that should take that on. You know, I'm going to nominate you because that math, that mathematic maneuver that you just did right now was so fast, you know what I'm saying, So fast with so oppressed with that, bro, It's crazy. I mean, but ye, what year did you enlist in in in in the UH

with you on the army? Right? Yeah? One o one? So that was was that right after BC? It was so so two thousand. BC came out in two thousand. Yeah. Yeah, so you know, kind of give it, give us like a how was your experience? Man like, like like one and this is a September eleventh happens yes in the army years right after September eleventh, so pretty much you know that experience. I mean, what can I say, man like I at that time, I made a record. It was it was the See True How Stories. That was

the album. The album was you know, it was satire. I've heard people say, yo, satire, it's true. It was. It was. It was just done to kind of like, uh like allegorically like make an album that was, uh, you know, just get under the skin, you know what I mean of folks that was saying that, Yo, man, I need the records to be harder. I want you to spit harder, the beat, the lyrics, you know, I want more. And then and then I gave them less

right by making a record like that. And the record was was strictly just something that it wasn't serious, but it was like something that it was. It was it was still palatable, something that was tangible. You could have went out and got the artwork. You look at it, open the fold out. You know, who's this guy wearing that shirt? Why is he writing that? And then you know, we paid twenty five bands for the Source ad, you know,

to run that ad. Graz the Source and you know what, the Source was scared to run the ad because of the relationships that they were saying could have been ruined. Right, and they did it for the money, of course they did.

You know, they're just what I'm trying to say. So and then after that they turn around and black balled me further, you know what I mean, and took money, you know what I mean to like black ball me right, So you know you're talking about that record was made like at the way I felt at that juncture, it was like, you know what, rapping it. You know what, I'm still young enough to go out and make a difference and something else, yes, right, and and pretty much like be a guide you in a way, you know,

try to do something good. Right. But then of course, you know, you make records and you know, you do a record like and you do record like draft Me, and you say a lot of crazy stuff on the record, and then you know, you grow, you get older, you

see things. You know other people see that you. You know, you become privy certain things, and you're like, man, wow, it's like, you know, everywhere you turn, you're trying to make a difference, trying to make a change, and uh, you kind of find yourself like adding on to some of the things that have made the world more disconnected. Right because before and after pictures tell you a lot about you know, what what what? How good something was

right before and after pictures? Right? Yep, So that's all really you got to do. Man, that's my answer to how many how many years were you in the service? I mean, you know, got in and O four is supposed to be two, right, We got in O four, got in No. One and got out in No. Four and then you had did you you went overseas? No, that's not you didn't. You didn't end up going over I didn't do that. Yeah, it's just an interesting experience, you know, because it's like I remember seeing that in

whatever magazine, like, oh shit, cannabis is in there. I mean, you know, I mean I did. I did right doctrine for the Strikers bro like the first brigade to have them. You know. I always was like a getaway driver kind of guy. And even though I was a scout nineteen Delta, you know, I got was I was on the three truck man Striker Brigade road doctor and help write doctor for those vehicles. They perform and they definitely use me

to test them, test the performance. That's big. Yeah. No, do you think that at that point in time mentally you were just this rap shit is enough because I feel like the you know, the industry wasn't good to you. You know what I'm saying after that first outshiate you even like, you know what I mean, just just saying that, man, You know, I appreciate you, even just saying that, man, Like I'm not looking at yo. Listen, man, I'm not a bleeding heart myself, so I don't really you know listen, man,

people have been dealt worse hands, right, true. But the thing is just when you just look at the potential of certain things, right, some people, it's gonna sting them harder because of what they were, you know what they were innocently trying to you know, trying to increase or help or assist that it's going to sting those folks harder because it's like you come into something bright eye Bush.

You telled, you know, nobody's innocent when they're one hundred years old, right, But when you're twenty, you know, you're innocent of a lot of the things that you wouldn't be at forty or fifty, right, right, So at that age, man, come on, man, I was innocent, like in terms of like what I was trying to bring to the game with music, you know, and yeah, I mean I can't say it though, I can't say that the industry wasn't good to me when you say it, you know, I

just say, hey man, and I applaud. I just remember specifically, obviously, at a certain point in time, it felt like you were like the industry's next guy. Everyone was behind you. I mean I remember seeing you had you had your

source cover. You were you were very much uh you know, I remember like the na's main source moment, you know what I mean, Like it almost felt like that was like the closest thing where it was like yo, live at the bar because it's a kid no, And then you were kind of like the ninety six ninety seven version of that, right, and the first album comes out, it's I you know, I thought there was some shit on there, like and word nometry and get retarded. I mean,

you know, there's some fucking amazing records on there. But for whatever reason, it felt like you nowadays, people get more than one go. I feel like people kind of that album came and went, and like maybe the Beef was like a even though you want it might have been a bigger curse than a you know, it was a kind of a gift in a curse. A man, it's possible, Like I really, I really will tell you that.

You know, what what I was up against, I really didn't know at that time, right, And then by the time I figured it out what I was up against everyone of the abandoned ship, I was pretty much by myself, right, and it was something that I realized what it was or what I thought. It was definitely a heavier pill to swallow than you know, didn't then being something simple to mitigate, something to figure out and get out of. But I was in the middle of it, so I

couldn't quit. I couldn't lay down and I couldn't just sit there and wait for you know that that that grindstone that grinds everything to dust, you know what I mean.

So I had to keep it pushing, and that's what I did, and that I'll give you know, I give all all all praise to the creator for me still being here now, because there were dark times there, things that went through and and you know, right now though even though you know we talk about your other industry this that and yeah, but you know what, though, like the Kaiju released this Kaiju record, a record man like you got militone of magic, you got like for whom

to be told you have all lyrical law, you had ripped the jacker like there were records they mic clued the curriculum. There were a lot of records that came out in Time Flies. There were records that came out after that that I'd say the brotherhood, like the fan base, the listeners, the rippers, like people that they don't care what the game talking about, what the industry talking about.

They want to hear what Candles got to say. They came through in the clutch, right, and they stepped up to the plate in such a way where I mean, if that's all that there is, or that's all that you can walk away from with it, I gotta tell you that I'm more than blessed to have that, or to have secured it through that same innocence older than now. I'm not perfect, right, but some of that innocence is still there. And this brotherhood that I'm talking about, they

have reflected that innocence and I see it. And when they come to support they knowed it was a lot. Don't know exactly what I was burying on my shoulders. But they know it was a lot and now they kind of like they stepped to the plate. I mean, these people they're older now. Like all the rippers that were following me back in the nineties, they all got kids now, man, mostly all of them. They're all grown. They all got you know what I mean, they all

made it to one of them. You know, I feel you I first I was eleven years old when your album came, you know what I'm saying, And and and you know this pandemic for the last two years. Man, like they're still out here getting it popping right, like subsisting, you know, like striving right, and then for them to set aside, like you know what, I'm gonna get that new album whatever, and then to be able to make it number two. Of course, all the platforms. It's independent. Man.

We just went to the warehouse we picked and people are buying the physical copies. Yeah. So so so I want to I want to. I want to. I want to take take a snapshot of that and highlight that, because that is the moment where I can like like look on what happened, you know, with with more of like a you know what I mean. If if if it wasn't real and it was all fake, then that means the rippers now that I got wouldn't have existed.

But they're here now. They're here because obviously Angels Man, Yeah, I do think like you know, I think back to like grateful for that is what I'm saying. And if you really think about like I do, think, like the big misconception is like your first album wasn't fire, right. I always thought it was great, right, And obviously, like you said, you look at how many years later there's still people who are putting money in your pocket for a new album. So it obviously cut through to a

certain extent. But like I mean, maybe it just wasn't the industry success that people would hoped to be. I did one hundred and fifty thousand units for a week. Big, You know what I'm saying that most people would that keeps the lights on. Most people would chop their arm off you they keep do that. That's just the first week,

you know what I'm saying. The first week it was number two on the billboard, like it was, it was Lauren and you know, right behind his number two on Laurn Hell, Laura Hill was number one, right sound scan that week. So who can be Laura? Nobody? Right? So, yeah,

you know what I mean? So, and I remember, you know, I remember being told like, yo, it's a failure, you know why somebody at the label, right, and then and then I remember that person's equal on the other on the other wing of the building came and said, what are you talking about? Like number two? This is your first release. You'll never be able to get it, get another first release again. You'll have other releases, but you'll never be able no matter what you do, you'll never

be able to have a first release again. Enjoy it for what it is, right, You're a champion, you know, you know, you know, enjoy it. Don't be sad, right because I was torn when when when the other one came to me and said, it's a failure to such

you know what I mean. So, but but this and I was young man, like you gotta understand like psychological you know, games and abuse on that level, you know what I mean, In a in a in a game that was already like you know, everything's big, right, like Neil, these these owners and all that, they had everything you could ever think of, right, and we had me walking in you have nothing. You know, you just want something. You don't even want what they got. Like when I

say innocent, I mean innocent. Like you know a lot of the guys I remember from my area, we weren't

looking to have everything that they had. We were just looking to have something right and to see that that that kind of that that agreement was made that Okay, if you do this, this and this, you'll have this and this and this, or you just have this and this, or you just have this right And if you open the door she was behind doing number one and knew you'd have been like, look, man, let me just break out right now, go to vocational school. Let me just

get this out the way right now, you know. So, yeah, I want to I want to highlight that, man, like you know, you gotta you gotta, you gotta definitely you gotta grow with your your fan base and you know what I mean, And and sometimes they're growing with you,

but when when the tables turn, you gotta grow with them. Yeah, give me a backstory on how Mike Tyson ended up on second round knockot oh man, you know what I'm saying, Like, if you want to talk about Sucramar knockout again, then we can easily focus on I don't want to talk about the beef. I just want to talk about the second round knockout. How did Mike Tyson end up on the second round knockout? No? No, I mean listen, this is Mike second round knock out one more time. I

just want second round knock ye how did Mike Tyson people? Yeah, this is what y'all want, right, So, you know, I don't even want to talk about the beef. I just want to know Mike Tyson getting on that record, How did that happen? I'm story. I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you first. I want you to tell me when's the last person you heard somebody ask Mike Tyson about cannabis. I don't know. I would, though, no, but nobody has. I'm gonna tell you why she punching in

your neck? You know I would ask him? Yeah? Sure, I would. Sure. I just don't think people are talking to Mike. You know, they don't want to do that, right. But the whole thing is this, At the time, there were friends of mine, you know, shout out to like you know, I don't even want to say his name. Because I say his names, like him throwing his name and and something that had so much drama about it.

But there was a there was a friend of mine where was working closely with both business wise and just like you know, we we put projects out together, right, and you know, he was able to get in contact with you know, another close friend of Mike's, uh female, you know, and then she had a son, and that son, you know, I don't want to say, I don't want to say people's names, throw it out there because these people don't want to hear about this ship, you do,

you see what I'm trying to say. So I would say, you know, they they wanted to uh, they wanted to work with me, so they took it to Mike and when the when the son, you know Mike's you know, Mike's sister, her son, so his nephew heard the record and her her name and it was me. He was like, oh man, you gotta listen to what else he's doing, and he would throw that up and Mike was like, oh man, that sit hard, all right? Yeah, So it happened just like that. There was no there was no

animosity in it. It was a record that was made like more out of like Okay, okay, this hip hop's getting interested now you understand what I mean. And there was innocence to it, is what I'm saying. But just because it was like an airstrike of sorts, it felt and it was to the big Empire, you know what I'm saying. That basically ran rap. It turned into something where it's like, man, you just woke up the great dinosaur man, like you know, the t Rex Man, and

it turned into something else. But Mike was just Mike was with it just because it sounded dope. It was dope, you know what I'm saying. Were you in the studio with him when he laid his absolutely you know what I mean? What was that like? Because I think off like the equivalent would be like if Lebron James jumped on someone of the diss record in twenty twenty one, because Mike Tyson in ninety eight is i mean roarguably the most famous athlete him and Jordan, you know what

I mean. I was witness to it. So what was that? What was that like being in the studio with Mike Tyson? Okay, so so so to add clarity to it and be fully transparent he didn't come to the studio first and do the record. I was in the studio with him several times, but he didn't do this the record in the studio. That was done on a on a dat recorder, you know at the time, that type of dat recorder, that piece of qums like two bands man twenty five hundred and it was. He did it's part in the

comfort of his own home. We were in Vegas and his home next next door was the Sultan of BRUNEI. You know, funny story about that. Mike took me over there. You know, I got to see the Sultan Bruni's home and all that. You know, yeah, you know, horse track on the grounds, you know, pretty much went around the

whole grounds. Laser being security at the time, satellite laser security at the time, like just crazy, right, And Tyson did the drops like in the comfort of his own home, and we you know he did he said, no one told him what to say. He that's what he said. Yeah, and then took that and you know, chopped it up. And you know when the part in the beginning, when when the door is there and I go to the monastery.

You know, if you look at it, man, it was so I really like slide Stallong, you understand what I mean, And I built I wrote the treatment for that song like out of like a rocky kind of the rocky vibe, the vibe from all the rockies with or even like the clean East with vibes where you know, somebody shows up to the town, they wipe your family out, they take everything from you. You know, they break they break your strong hand. You know, you gotta come back and

learn how to shoot with the other one. You know what I mean. You gotta you know, you gotta make a complete comeback and then you ride back into that town. Right. That was That was what the second round knockout record was. It wasn't a first assault. It wasn't you know what I'm saying. It wasn't an air strike. It in the middle of the night. It was a response to something. Of course, that's all. I think people forget that too. It was a response. You get where I'm coming from,

and no response. And but but you know what, though, we cleaned all that up. We cleaned it all up. And I couldn't have made the cleanup any bigger. If I could have, I would have. But I couldn't have made the cleanup any bigger, that's up to other you know, other hands, right, other steady hands. Right. So you know, here we are again. Man, we're talking about something that was cleaned up, but the cleanup wasn't as big as the is the mess, right, So the mess is still there.

That's why you're asking me about Well, I'm asking about Mike Tyson. It's the same ship. No, I think. I just I just think like to be able to to to have experiences with nineteen ninety eight Mike Tyson. Yeah, it's so crazy, Oh, Mike, Mike in ninety eight Mike. Mike was firm for it though, right, he was firm because he I think that I think that he I mean when I went to his home in Vage, Man, there was so many books on that bookcase, man, and

he's read every one of them. And I think people now know this, right, But at the time, I don't think anyone could have been imagined that he was that studious. Right, But when you look back on it, it makes sense. It makes sense. He was real strategic. But you know, let's think about it, man, During that time in ninety eight, he had already gone through some of the real madness you know what I mean, in his life and he

turned all that around, you know what I mean? And now people don't even really talk about that madness no more. They let him live, I know, but I'm saying they let him live, but me, I'm still here. I can't live. Y'all still want to talk about the madness, and I just don't understand, Like, what the fuck is it? Man? I mean, it's just hip hop history. Man, it was his hip hop history. But yuah, but everybody has heard

it already. They just haven't had me sit in front of him and say it to him, but they've heard it already. I'm confused, man, I'm so disappointed man. Now, I mean I think that you know, for me, it's just more of the angle of life. So let me ask you this. Like I said, it's like if Lebron James was on a record, I would want to know how did how did Lebron? You know? You know that's I'm not I'm not agree with you, man, I'm not even kicking the tires. I'm not on you. You know

what I'm saying. I'm not on you. I'm just I'm just I'm just I'm just I just kind of like, I get it, yo, I want to figure it out. I didn't want to figure it out before you start talking about it to this this, but I do want that you start talking about it like this. I'm really it's like a It's like a Ruby's cube. It's a puzzle that I don't know how it can be solved where it's like, I mean, you know what I mean? Can the nigga just live? But but let me ask

you this. Though you heard the album to Cadu, I haven't listened to it yet. Yeah, I heard, I heard. Uh I think I did. I did check out one record. I think what was the what was one of the what was the first record that came out? Man? That's you ain't give a ship about cannabis. Man, that's not true. You listened to record. I just got off of a ten day vacation with my wife for our anniversary. I

just got Sunday from Pooth, I got records. You could have played the Punt, the Conna and to Loom and probably wouldn't wanted to go to I was sitting on the beach with the wife for our anniversary. I just got back Monday night. I feel you so No, I mean listen. It's not that I don't want to listen to what I am going to. I just literally, you know, I haven't gotten around to it. So it's records on there.

There's records on Kaiju that some dope features. Yeah, yeah, I got I got a DMX, just as ad libs. You know, for those out there think I'm trying to I'm not trying to tell people to go grab it

because X is on there. But that was my way of paying homage to them and my relationship with them and my connection to them, you know what I mean, because I never had any way of making that possible without without those ad libs, right, right, And you know I think, thank uh, thank you, you know what I'm saying, like,

and are extraordinary for that right, making those connections. But uh yeah, you know, there are records on Kaiju that I would say, are you know, vastly more important than anything that happened in ninety eight, But you know, into years you will know. But then for those out there who have heard it, they could probably agree. They could come on and point out to you maybe five, six or seven things inside of records that's the vastly more

important hapened in ninety eight. Do you feel like with Kaiju, because what I'm noticing is like with the Horsemen release and the and Kaiju, like you're it feels like you're really taking advantage of the fact that, you know what, you do, have a core fan base that will break bread with whatever Cannabis does. And I think that sometimes people forget that right, like, you know, like when you put it out like you said earlier, right like, you're

not just going straight to streaming platforms. You're pressing up records, You're you know, you have You're you're essentially giving something tangible to fans still when that's not a thing. And I think that, you know, shout out to the Griselda guys have done a good job of doing that in the last few years. I feel like it was dope to see, you know, with the last couple of releases, that was kind of something on the forefront of like

the business model of what the Kaiju record is. It's like, hey, look, man, I'm still here, and let's make sure that not only can you go stream it, but you can also hold it well. To be honest, to be absolutely honest, because it's all grassroots, there's really no promo money going and there's nobody offering up any assistance with that. You know, it's just this team, small team too. You can count them on. You can count them on one hand, and if need be, you can count them on two hands.

But that's it. And I got to tell you that we're not always absolutely sure that you know, there's going to be any support for records. I mean, if you go on Google right now, you type in cannabis kuiju, it's not going to just come up. Bro. The site that was built to support the record will come up, but it's not coming up nowhere else. You understand what I'm trying to say. So let's not take the narrative and throw it somewhere else act like oh yeah, Ken's

got to solid fan base and all that. Like, No, I got folks that, you know, by the grace of the creator right are able to you know, you know, stand on their own and their own lives. And they just happening. You know, a little birdie says, hey man, bitch, just drop the album. And then they say to themselves, you know what I'm kind of going through right now,

let me see what BIS going through. Because I always listen to bits when I want to go work out, when I want to get motivated, when I want to get inspired to like go out here and deal with life and try to you know what I mean, try to win, try to get a victory out of you know, something that's really really, you know, hampering me right now. That's that's where I think it comes from. It's just people saying, let me get this a shot to listen

to it. So the pressure is still on me to make a record that's going to give them that extra Yo, let me do two more sets, you know what I mean, let me do you know what I mean. So that's what it is. We're never like, we're never going into it thinking it we're gonna certainly get this amount or do this amount, because at the end of the day, if you see the numbers or whatever, they're still small. Bro.

It's it's it's nothing compared to you know, like you know, a shout out from a megamogul that you know, that's that's out here, that's still with everything. I mean, I would say, what you can do is what a lot of people who might listen. We talked about a million streams right right. I haven't done a million streams. But but, but, but, but what you can do is something that a lot of these kids can't do, and that's sell this and you know, sell the pre order's But let's put it

in perspective. But let's put it in perspective like, they can sell this, and they can do a million streams and so forth and so on, but they don't have somebody asking them about second round knockout and trying to constantly box them in. See what I'm saying, like, I would trade a clean slate for what you're what you're praising me for right now, I trade it for queens. That's how crazy all that shit was. But nobody understands that,

you see what I'm saying. Everybody comes and acts like, oh, you got so much, you can do so much, but

I'm shackled to that ship. Do you feel like that you're do you feel like that's like obviously, look at the end of the day, if you know, if you've made hip hop history, you've been a part of hip hop history, right, and you're also someone who's kind of not accessible, not very you know, like I said, you kind of get in and get approachable, not really accessible, right, Right, So you know I think it's you have to kind of expect we're sitting here for two hours, I'm gonna

bring it up. It's a highlight of you know, that's that you know what that's if that's if you don't really know the whole catalog, bro, Like, if you knew the whole catalog. Like so I got like three thousand, I've hearndred of some songs registered, right, registered which Nielsen like sounds you know how much that is because you

did the math that fast, right, right? So that's so let's let's take let's take registered songs in any rapper ever maybe that maybe it is I could, I could show you the proof, but and I probably would like right after we get off. But now so in my mind right and in the mind of the people who know me best, that one song that everybody keep talking about, if we just subtract that one song from the catalog, there's still thirties. You get where I'm coming thirty seven.

You understand where I'm coming from. I get it. So that's exactly where we stand. I understand how that could be frustrating. It's not frustrating to me. I'm almost I'm almost looking at the rap community, like they're slow, and this is why we're in the ship that we're in, right, And that's why I've stopped trying to augment the direction that that's going to get us, because they're not doing it with me. They're doing it with all the artists

out here. They're taking narratives that will shackle people to things that munk up the gears and make it so that they can't you know, make an impact of value. They make it, they turn it into something that the only value that can come from it is like you know, the ops right, what they're selling and how they're changing the narrative and how you know, maybe something unfortunately can happen to the you know, to the to the to the light, you know what I mean, or just the

balancer or the equalizer. They want something to happen to the equalizer. Man. Well, listen. The way I look at it is this, right. I think that that situation is historical in the same way that I think that that roundtable the UDMX pun and Mike Jeromino was historical. So as a hip hop fan, as someone who participated as a consumer in that era, like you know, personally, something I want to you know, I want to ask you

about that day. Okay, you were sitting at that table in the same way I want to, you know, ask you about I specifically remember participating as a fan in that situation. So it's beautiful, man. And yet again I can stand here on this side of the fence and say, okay, so let's look at the round table, like what happened to everybody on the panel, like including me, man, like or any of the potentially everybody was on that panel. Potentially did any of us even get to like half

our real potential? I think really it was just X. Right, you're saying X got to half of his potential, and I think got fully too. I think I meant the end of the day, DMX had what five or six number one albums in a row? Oh so you're talking about materialism then now five five at materialism? No, I just means of commercial success. So that's his potential was commercial success? I mean, what are we talking about? I mean,

because I said potentially, they reached half their potential? Like, what do you think that anybody on that panel reached half of their potential? That's what you think too. I don't think he reached half his potential, Like you're talking about records and sales and money, right, But even when he passed, there were issues like surrounding like what money is going where? And what's going to agree? I don't. I don't agree because it depends on what what scope

are we looking at him? It's one scope. It's only one scope. Everybody sitting at that table, right, Okay, did they reach half their potential? Because I feel like if any of us at that table have reached half potential, it would be like obscenely visible now and not just financially you get and so and so and so. That's why I will always push back with that kind of conversations. People come with that ship. I just look at it like, damn man, hip hop is so look man, I'm gonna

push back like I always would saying that. You know, it's like we're hunted, bro. It's like we're hunted, man, you know what I'm saying, And somebody somewhere is not satisfied until everybody on the panel. It's like it's like some kind of fucked up horror film, man, you know what I'm saying, or novel. That's the way I look at it, and that's the way. A lot of people that listen to my music look at things, man, because you know what, unfortunately it looks like that's the way

it is. Everybody else is slow to catch up. Man. Everybody else think that it is just about this material stuff or you know, you did reach all this potential because your name is everywhere. But you know what, are you miserable? It's your family miserable. You know what I mean.

There's certain things going through, certain hardships where you got to look at it and be like, damn, considering all of the people that would look up the X and say, you got me out of some real rough times, brother, and I love you for it, and I'll always support you for it. You know sometimes people tell me that definitely not as much times as X has heard that, right, and so you know, yeah, I mean I think I

just get sad, Bro. I get sad when people try to act like what they've done, like like what what the game is? You know, giving back to us is satisfactory? Man, I pushed back, Bro. I disagree. I mean, and I told you in general, I mean, I think in general, the industry, as as as you know, was was rough towards you. Okay, well you're telling me that shit stinks. I'm telling you though, that that what what happened, that the reason behind what happened. I'm pointing in the direction

at it. I can't isolate what it is because I can't breathe air that far up in the clouds. But

you know, because it's rarefied up there. But trust me when I tell you, man, like the fans really do you know if it's not if it wasn't for them, like you know some of the things that you see, Like you look at that panel, dudes wouldn't even being able to get what they got, Like now you know what I'm saying, And that that's the part that that's the part I push back on if somebody's coming to try to say, oh, yeah, well you guys, because you're

not the only one, boss, it's not your fault. You're not at fault here you just and then here I am like just giving you like, yeah, look at the panel. You talk about the panel, Like, look, so how you think I feel like being it? I was on the panel. I feel like a small part of me is felt like I'm carrying a flag for that right, and then another part of me is like you'll stay away from that shit. You understand what I'm trying to say. But you want to know because you think the fans want

to know, so you drag me into that. Get where I'm coming from. I think the fans would want to know about that day. Fans don't give a shit about that man. That shit has been on YouTube. Yeah, but it's not about It's not about that video. It's about like, Yo, what's the like, YO, tell me about that night. You know what I'm saying. I think people I don'tn't even to remember that fucking night, Like if you want to

keep it all the way a bluck. That ship is so much shit that's happened in my life, like like that ship is like it's just an At the same time, I wasn't even like I said what I say when you brought that up. I brought up I remember there was no Yeah, I did say that. Yeah, but I also said that Torrey, you know he did the sign offs and there was no percentage kickbacks. If I got a percentage kickback on that, I probably remember it a whole lot better. That's real. You see what I'm trying

to say. So let's let's let's be you know what I mean, let's be let's be pragmatic about what we're talking about here, man, because I don't even like doing interviews because every the narrative, they always grabbed the narror

and it's always somebody just slower than me. You know what I'm saying, that grabs the narrative and takes it and go somewhere else with it, and then I end up in the middle, and I end up being the bad guy when all I'm trying to do is just like the Kanju record, I'm trying to I'm trying to keep something afloat here, or I'm trying to assist or help, you know what I'm trying to say, Like it's always been like that, and it just seemed like rap. You know what it seems like to me, Man, I don't

gonna say this one. Shut up about it. It seems like rap is the death of us. Rap is the death of us bro. You know what I'm jump trying to say, Like the artists that come out and they make their music and they're impactful and they're you know, there's some good in them, and they're out there and they're making a difference for the better. Rap is the death of them, not something else but rap. I mean also literally and figuratively as well, because I mean we've

seen That's what I mean. That's what I'm and that's a goddamn shame. That's all I'm saying. Man, Well, listen, man, the new album. But let's not be sad about anything. Right, Well, you got a new album out, The Horseman album is out, you got a lot of you know, there's there's listen.

You've had a great twenty twenty one. As far as output, what is uh you know is this Are you gonna take a break or is this like with this new energy of this new record, are you kind of do you kind of have the bugs that she's you say new energy? Yeah, I feel you. I really feel what you're trying to do. What I'm saying is I feel you like you've had a crazy year of output. Man, Look I feel what you're trying to say. I really asking like, like, are you gonna it's not working? Are

you going to keep staying in the studio? It all depends, man, the creator makes that decision, not me, Like the big g God makes that decision, not me. And we've seen that, right with so many other things, so many other people and people that we love, artists we love. Right, we don't make I don't make that decision anyway. But the twenty twenty one there were some bright moments in it, right,

But on Kachu So I did a record called Covid Santa. Right, when you listen to the record, you hear Covid Santa. Covid Centta is a real snapshot to me of what things are really like. That's that's the snapshot of what things are that's twenty twenty one to me. Listen to that record. If you listen to that record, Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. I mean, cod Santa. That pretty much sums it up, right, I mean, you know, yeah, it's but that to me is a snapshot of where

things are at. Right. So you know, all I can say now is like, hey, we're still in the trenches, right, you know, we take it day by day, you know, everybody out here pounding pavement to do the best that we can. And then sometimes you know, we know that something ain't working or whatever, when we keep it pushing and we leave it alone. You know what I mean. This is not some kind of resurgence to canvas or nothing like that. Man, I'm still the same dude. It's

gonna do what makes sense. If it makes sense, you're gonna do it. If you're feeling you're gonna do it, and yeah you're not, it's all good because you're still the same guy either way. That's what it. Hey, So what's the website that everyone can go and like if they want to actually physically buy the music. I appreciate that. So if you want to just be involved, you know, hang out with with with with people who like Canvas music.

They pumped that. You know, I got I got born some with me, I got ah, you know, you know the team my rippers pretty much like everybody you can imagine. It's like messing with real hip hop. I got body Bag been on this album. We're forging new relationships, you know, eighties reaching out the new people, forging new relationships, right, and then some of the old relationships if they're if they're reparable, we can't we repair them, right if they

if they're beyond approach, we leave them alone. But you know Kenny n ft dot com, that's c A n I n F T dot com. You can go there to like directly, you know, get involved. Yeah, and just and get involved with with with what what I'm up to next? Right, you got I pictoria dot com. That's like the future, as you were talked about earlier. Yeah, that's the future. And so for anybody that wants to like put the goggles on, right, it's like you was talking about Kit Coutie, Like we just say cut cutting

part in that. Yeah, so Kit cutting, right, So he had like something where they perform with the metaverse. Right now, we know that's a huge artist, right, brings a lot, a whole lot of fanfare and everything. Look, you can put the goggles on and go see him, right, Well, you can put the goggles on and see me too, But you gotta go to I portuary dot com. Here it is, man, Well, I appreciate your time, man, real shit. I