Whitney Cummings

uh Katzenberg's new pitch. They made the deal today with T Mobile to have millennials, who theoretically don't have long attention spans, have little bites on mobile phones. That's right, which I believe is already working in other places around the world. Right in Asia they sort of have already. You know, even though we live in the greatest country in the world, a lot of these countries are far in adv ants. You know. It's I say, in China they do so much more on the phone. Okay, so

you had a pitch, you say you're pitching one. Was pitching something today, um with this wonderful writer who had a great idea that was a sort of dystopian satire of influencer culture and it's sort of successions set inside a lifestyle blog office like a Goop type office. I got it. There's a lot of information information sort of like you know, commenting on all the sort of products of ridiculous products that influencers are trying to sell us.

And um, so what did the person you pitched to have to sen one of my Yes, that's one of my favorite people on the planet. Um, he has an excellent taste, So I think it might go well. I have something else set up there as well with berlante Um, so I'm doing a couple of things with them, so hopefully this okay. So when you pitch them, since they're short episodes, how many episodes would there be? Um, it depends,

but I think you start with like ten. I believe they give you a budget and you can kind of break it up based on what makes them sense, and then I believe you own your content in two years afterwards. I think that's part of Well, that's astounding, certainly in the visual entertainment. But what does that mean? What that means ultimately that you can do something within the future and the music business, what it usually means is you license it to somebody else in the future, hopefully it's

slightly better terms. But right, but so's I can take it back and sell it somewhere else, sort syndicated myself or put it on my Instagram or something. Well, theoretically, let's just assume it's successful, which a lot of this stuff is really not. Okay, then you can build you tell me, no, you can build an asset. Traditionally in this field, doesn't work that way because the talent does

not own the contents. Uh. But if you build an asset, you can sell that for a good amount of money, and you can sell it as part of a deal, like I'll sell this and I'll also give you something else. That's right, that's right. I mean, look, it's the wild West out there. You know. I've got a couple of things set up in streaming services. They either move lightning fast and it doesn't feel real, or glacially slow. You know, it's it's well, welcome to Hollywood. Finally figured this business out,

and then the entire thing changed overnight. You know, there's no target anymore. I talked about this to my shrink all the time. Okay, you had a certain goal, and then they blew up the destination. You know, people used to be a comedian, you wanted to get a sitcom. I don't know why anybody would want to do that anymore because so few people watch. None of them are

doing well on Netflix, some of the ranch that's my point, Gabrieliers. Yeah, right, but when you when you go onto a streaming service, inherently your goal is less. You're not think of it as a world dominating thing. So therefore, when it's successful, you can you know, it's like in the old days. I remember Mark Maron, I think it was IFC got his own sitcom so we could say this is before

he was in glow. He said, oh this is so great, but nobody is watching right right, It's and it's also this crazy thing just as a you know, creator, it used to be you made a show for America for six years, so we did you know, two book Girls, and then you sell it internationally. If it works, now you're kind of immediately selling it internationally. You know exact, there's no back end. But also as a creator you're thinking like, well, is this joke gonna work in Asia?

Is this joke gonna work in Sweden? Is this two inside you know, you want something to go global instantly, which I think is part of the reason why television is moving towards these Marvel superhero stuff that translates universally right away. You know, once you've already built an audience with something like two ber Girls, two and a half of Man, Big Bang Theory for six years, then you go, Okay, this really worked here. Now we get to go to China and say, number one show in America and they'll

take a chance on it. Now it's like, we're not giving the number one show in America right away, We're giving you one that America is still testing out. Okay, but as a creator, do you feel inhibited that you must make something that can be consumed around the world. I would say my number one concern, if I'm gonna be really honest, it seems that's what we're doing here is making shows for streaming services and not having the ability to make fun of how technology is ruining our lives. Service.

You have John Oliver who's on HBO, which is owned by A T n T, and seemingly every show he pokes the bear, you know, he basically goes against a T and T so I think on some level, Netflix certainly is sophisticate. I'm not saying Disney nor A T and T is sophisticated enough to handle that. I was sort of like in you know Apple, I you know, Apple has no sense of humor about it. Well, I'm just I'm just curious, like, are we allowed to do a scene where my phone doesn't get reception on? You know?

It used to be when we were on networks. We weren't allowed to say Jesus Christ. We were allowed to say God. We weren't allowed to say, you know, curse or show nudity. Now are we allowed to not show I would doubt it on Apple? If you said I'm gonna do the whole show on an Android, they would be pissed. Are you allowed to say, like, well, I don't know cell phones cause cancer? Are you allowed to joke about something like that? Are you That's that's actually general?

The point is, can you say something specifically anti Apple? Yeah? Are you allowed to make jokes, you know, on on something? I mean, we consume six hours of content our cellphone, not quimber lewed to make a joke on Quimby about how social media is the apocalypse and it's bad for our brains and it's causing body Just what's your personal viewpoint on that. I'm not a scientist on it. Um emotional, yea technical. I don't want to pretend to be an authority on it because I have a comedian I think

in hyperbole. I think it's gone. I tell my girlfriend that I do. Is she comedian? No? But I talked. She always react, yes, that's we just have this. That's not exactly what I said. Yeah, she said that's something I did annoyed her, and then I said, oh, you were piste off because that's not what I said. I said, Well, to me, annoy is as heavy as pissed. No, no, no no, yeah. I think humans. I think we are designed to find flaws and things. We are designed to complain about things. Uh,

we're designed to um amplify the consequences of things. Okay, but let's go back. When something doesn't work, are you someone o c is and you're pissed? Uh, something doesn't work in terms of well, you know, you get your phone. We all have this technical glitch and something doesn't work. You're the type, oh this is technology, Oh it'll be fine tomorrow, or you say God, I'm so pissed. It

depends on the circumstances. I mean, if your iPhone doesn't work and that's your biggest problem of your day, you have a pretty good life. I'm not into that. I'm not into that first world problem, not at all. You've been bridged longer than I have. Rich It's a whole another thing. But my point is people always say, oh, two things that make me insane. One is you're better than that. Fuck you am. I haven't said that yet. No, No, you have about here all the time. Okay, okay, that's

shaming perfectly. And then you constantly here first world problem. That's my problem exactly. I mean when I go up. When I grew up, my parents literally said you gotta finish what's on your plate because their kids starving. In Europe, some guy wrote a who's your parents know? They're not starving? It's the only place I think they're doing well. Were jumping forgetting that. Today almost no one is starving, And I forget the book uh Troy Carter told me to

read and I have on my kindle. There are a lot of women in LA who are starving for different reasons. Yes, my choice, but let's go back to technology. Are you someone who believes, let's just start with usage as opposed to the high level with these guys. Are you are you anti social media, addiction to the phone, addiction to screen. No, because we've always been addicted to something, and um, you know, I think we're also in our echo chamber. I I tore all over the country and I am grateful that

I get to see what real America looks like. And I don't walk around. I don't see people walking and talking on their phones when I go to Duluth. Um. You know, I think that metropolitan cities we tend to that up. You literally went to Duluth to do comedy. I haven't been to Duluth this year. I was used Duluth as a as a job as a Joe blow a city exactly. I've actually been okay, but Duluth actually, when there, it's like the edge of the world because

that's where the Edmund Fitzgerald left. You remember the record, the Edmund Fitzgerald. And it's on to think about my geography. I think it's Lake Superior. They literally can surf, the waves are so big. And Deluth is of course on my mind because they burned down a synagogue there recently, and I happened to be Jewish. But it's like the edge of the world is different than like a Pensacola I might go to. For like, cities that most La New York people don't go to are like Deluth, Pensacola,

and Toledo. Well, it used to be the whole Pan handled Pensacola and the West. Everyone really had no idea if I lived with a woman who's from Tallahassee, tallahass the seventies. Okay, so, and her father was the richest guy in Tallahassee. Okay, so he drove roy is exactly exactly. But the point is that was before two thousand Bush versus Score and all the controversies. People have a better idea of what Tallahassee is now, and it's more cosmao thing,

But essentially Tallahassee is Georgia. They think they think, you know Miami. Yeah, no, people have Southern acts. It's greatly different. Yeah. No, I'm not a I'm not super apocalyptic. When it comes to the phone stuff. Um, you know, I lean into the negative parts of it sometimes for comedic purposes. But I'm the stuff that I'm working on now is really

more like, this is the safest we've ever been. This is the most um joyous we've ever been, the most convenient our lives have ever been, And all we do is is thinking complaint about it. Well, I find it. Know, there's the intelligencia of the New York Times, a New Yorker. They are constantly printing anti technology articles all the time. Screens are fucking everybody up, etcetera. I have a completely different viewpoint depends on how you use them. It's like

any weapon. Really, it's like a knife. You can use it to step, so I don't think it's a weapon. I mean, in the nineties I had a free subscription to a o L through Warner. But when it broke up, when you know, when it broke it, basically I was there, Okay, I could suddenly communicate with all the like minded people. You know, it was it was a good thing. Yeah. I think what people don't understand is the phone is

personalized to the individual. That's that's why we're addicting. I mean, I think the things that are problematic are really I mean, the algorithms tricky in ways that not of course that you might not be seeing news that you should be

seen exactly. Like that's what that's a high level It's like Facebook saying we can take ads that are not true and yes, exactly, and it's I'm the type of person who's gonna actively seek out news, but a lot of people who just you know, I sat down once and I had a different c ann page than someone I was sitting next to, and Google against different results.

That was alarming to me. Okay, So when you're not working, because this begs the screen question, how do you tend to fill the little bit of time you have when you're not working. I document whatever I'm doing for social media. When I'm not working, I'm not I mean working documenting. Okay, but most comedians at the advent of Twitter two thousand ten, two thous in eleven, they tweeted at infinitum, like Albert

Albert Brooks very funny tweeter. Last couple of years hasn't tweeted both politics happened, Twitter really became So no, no, I'm heavy on politics and I'm heavy on Twitter. My question is social media is it? How beneficial is it to your career? Credibly unbelievably Okay, which aspect unbelievably selling tickets. No, No No, Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat. They all kind of do different things. So Twitter used to you. I just mean what you tweet about on Twitter, if it's not politically

or zygeisty driven, it's probably gonna get less traffic. You have to be part of whatever the current conversation. How many followers on Twitter? A million? Four? You know? So I took like two years off when the election because I just don't really talk about politics. I don't really joke about politics. It's just really not my thing for a litany of reasons. Give me two reasons. Um, I I'm someone who believes you should know what you're talking

about when you talk about it. President Andy. Yeah, well look, I just for me, I had done it a couple of times and it just didn't go particularly well, and I was like, this just turns into a more ass Well wait, wait, slower, why did it not turn out? Well, it was something about it was like a joke about Brett Kavanaugh, and it just became not comedy anymore. I'm not trying to get in fights with strangers. Okay, but let's start from the beginning. Did you think the joke

was funny? Um? I have to be honest. I think it was probably it had an undercurrent of not self righteousness. I think I was right my opinion. Okay, My point is you have to understand I interact with these people all day long. They call it working the rest. If I even mentioned Trump's name, I can tell you that people who are going to email me that is their agenda. But the point is we cannot back down. It's the

same thing like they they demonized Adam Shift. If I was Adam Shift, I'd be out there bitching all day instead of going back into my hole. I believe this is my personal philosophy. I'm not John Oliver, I'm not Bill Maher. You know. I believe it is my business to be funny. And if I'm going to give an opinion, there needs to be something funny involved in what I'm saying. But if you but you can say something funny about politics,

I can. I can, and I I believe that two years ago, saying something funny about politics didn't always end in a laugh for everyone? No, But did it end in a laugh for a significant portion of the unclear? Because Twitter of America's on Twitter, of percent of everyone on Twitter, generates of the comments. Okay, but let's not make it about Twitter. The interesting thing and I don't want to play psychoanalyst here is you talked about television saying creatively is what I'm going to do play around

the world. Now you're talking about Twitter saying what is going to give you the negative effect? You are someone who is you know, famously said you've been pillar read in society. Okay, so to what degree does this now make you gun shy? Uh? I think there's a difference between gun shy and maybe just sagacious and being smart business wise. It used to be we could disagree and you can still be a fan of mine. The climate two years ago became if we disagree, you wan't follow me,

you never want to see me again. You might make threats about my safety, you might try to docks me and turn people on Reddit against me. It used to be if you didn't think something was funny, you maybe would still follow me. It still comes to your show joke didn't hit. Now it's fuck her, everyone go against her. It just becomes to me a thing. It's bad business.

It's bad marketing, absolutely bad business. You have to know what the ramifications of something you're sending out is going to affect your business, and if you decide to go into politics, you better be ready to have ideal with this all day every day. Yeah, okay, I find that the great majority of people who were biting back don't sign off. It's the silent people who signed up interest. I tracked my numbers at least once a day, so

that's multiple time. Today. I'm talking about subscription, which is a little bit different from Twitter. And what I find is, despite all the bitching, most people don't sign off. So I say, to what degree do I want to be in here? But they might not buy tickets next time. But what you find is a lot of the stuff that you do, I mean the nature of what I do to a degree what you do is we're at the eye of the hurricane. People are talking about us externally.

We don't really know what's going on. So that I mean, okay, I would never send an email to a celebrity. I would never tweet back something at all, someone with you know, so it takes a special kind of person to do that. In addition, is someone I have found I get a lot of email. The people who send long, deep emails are terrible face to face. They can speak person says like one line the people you connect. So it's a little for me, I don't like something I've wrestled with

because that's what they want. They want us to turn it to something different totally, which is I think that you know, sometimes the best war strategy is a masterful retreat. And I think sometimes it's important to know you know what to say, and it's important what not to say, and want to just stay on the bench and allow your work to speak for itself and to not have to chime in on everything that's super volatile, and uh,

the impact and the intention might get conflated. And I think right now as comedians, if people want to get in the ring and start fighting about politics and maybe alienating some of their base or you know, pissing people what, it's just a very emotional time and I just try to remember my job is to make people laugh, it is to unite people, It is to sell tickets, and it is my goal to have every type of person

buying tickets in the same theater. And right now is a is a time where you can really um step into a hornet's nest by accident. And I think a lot of us don't really know how elitist A lot of it comes off, and I think elitism in in comedy ends up really narrowing the number of people aren to buy tickets. Going back to Twitter, so when you this is one this is one of the reasons I

stopped tweeting. I don't have the number of followers you have, and certainly my follower account is not going up in the last six or eight years when I've essentially not tweeted. But I find you tweet and what bothered me and I have another way to reach people via email. Uh is how few people actually see it? No, I mean we it feels so big to us. I mean this is really I think when you talk about the negative ramifications of social media, it's I think, to me, the

dysmorphia of think of it feeling like it's happening. You know, it's like a front page headline when five people have responded to you. You know, it's just this, it's a hallucination. Really, it feels you know, if you have ten followers and three people respond that's thirty It's thirty percent of your It just feels huge, you know, So I think, um, uh, we're all inflating and amplifying. The other thing is a lot of these people's you know, send you heinous tweets

or whatever. You look at the follower account one two and you say, unless I respond, I've learned helps them more than it helps you. And it's just I mean, if you walk down the street in a homeless first and was like hey and yelled at you, you wouldn't engage with them. You'd keep walking. I mean, that's what we're doing. We're um, you know. And also look, and let's be serious the last year, how many careers have

you seen get dinged by a old tweet? You know, for comedians especially an excellent point because you know, one of the marks of an intelligent persons they can change their minds. Really a d C they can't change their mind I mean, I could never run for politics anybody. You'd have to be squeaky clean. That's right. We're just getting to the point. You could even smoke dope and become president, That's right. And I you know, I by

ep the Rosanne reboot. I I know what Twitter can do, you know, so I try to be sagacious with what I tweet, careful with what I tweet. And just go you know, what is it worth it? Okay, what was your take on it? Was it predictable that Roseanne would go off the rails? Um? You know, I don't know why. I still don't have an incisive answer to this question because I think that that particular tweet, I don't think

anyone could have predicted. It was almost if you asked someone to write the worst tweet you could write, we couldn't have come up with it. Um. So you know there were deaf Obviously, I had not seen the old tweets from years ago that we're surfacing and you know, they were going up, they were coming down, and um, I didn't it was that was like a biblical level tragedy. I didn't think it was. Okay, let's go to the end. Do you think the show should have been canceled? Uh, well,

it's it's still on without her. Um. Yeah, I mean that was right. You can't mean we get to the point. You know, this is kind of like, uh, Louis c K. Okay, no, no, no, what I'm trying to say. Louis c. K admitted it, and there's a certain segment of the population says, forget it. He has judged on the same level of Weinstein, So shouldn't there be a sliding scale to a degree? This

is a This will be a five hour conversation. If I take that out, I can speak to Rose and Um, I think there's a lot of stuff around Louis that you and I don't know. Um that maybe they know more than we do, et cetera. So I'm gonna not weigh in on that because I'm not an expert on it. Um, there's a lot of stuff A lot of us don't know. For all of the claims that you know, uh that

we're hearing about a lot of this stuff. You know, we don't know about all the things that have been settled and all the things that haven't been public, you know, and all the things that may come out. I mean, you know, you have a ton of money. Let's say you are you gonna put your money on someone who has a history of doing this, because then moving forward, what else is going to come out of this? Pandora's I agree, But it's more interesting when it's public perception.

When the people, uh yeah, I went, I toured around the country after the Rosean thing, and people go, what happened to Roseanne, Is she okay? I was like, you didn't hear me? There was not only some people that didn't hear about it, but then you know half the people are like, A, she's crazy. Ever knew she was crazy? That's just Roseanne? And what's the Just move on, you know. But look, we cannot forget the It's ABC is Disney, they sell mouse ears. I understand children. I understand that.

Will you amount of money you're getting, you can't post it like that. It's not a lot to ask, but no. But the more interesting thing to me is the discussion in the media and in board rooms. To what degree is that in touch with the people on the street. Um, you know you've met some of the people on the street. We shouldn't always be in touch, but there's we shouldn't stoop to the level that might uh appease something different.

I'm saying that I believe in doing what you want, and of course, if you have people you're working for, that's another issue. But a lot of times what they're concerned, there's a lot of history where they say, we have complaints, we took the show off the year ten people complaints he's on a network show, or they had a campaign, there's no perspective. But let me go back to and I think that also. I mean, look, you've from what

I understand that had companies and employed people. I mean, if you are running one of the most valuable brands in the world, Disney, and you have someone tweets something racist and you have Shonda Rhymes and Kenya Barriss is two of your biggest money it's just it's it's forget the mortal issue and the integrity issue and the class having class I mean issue. Um, it's also just bad business. Okay, But let's go back to social media. So you're heavy

on Twitter. How about on the other platform, Instagram. I would say I'm the most engaged because Twitter is very much sort of a verbal platform. It's very much you have to get the hashtag and you know, there's it's more time sensitive. You have to respond to something that's happening right this second, and evergreen jokes don't always hit as well as something topical. Um, so I'm in and out on there. Not the best place to sell tickets honestly anymore, in terms of ticket leaks. Just a couple

of things. How many how many followers do you have on Instagram, I have, okay, and how often do you post on either of these platforms? I would say Instagram is twice a day, usually a video day and a photo day, except on weekends because I can look at the metrics and see that my followers mostly look at Instagram during work during the week days, which is why you always want to subtitle your videos and look at your metrics, and then Instagram stories I do. I would

say like five or six of those a day. So what works? They all work for different demographics, and they all work for different reasons and different things. So Facebook is more for an older demographic and for the targeted ads that are selling tickets. Instagram works more for instant engagement and like selling things like merch or tickets and targeted Facebook ads are great for localized and I actually just um, you're gonna love this. Have you heard of this?

Um this new app where people can text you directly? Yes? Tell my audience, yes, So there's this new app. You've probably seen it on my Instagram. If you guys follow me, um, uh, your you've got They're probably like, who uh that they can You can now directly text celebrities, people touring and we can actually see your text and text you back. This is a company called Community. It does not sell your data, which is wild and um and we can

basically collated by age and uh state. So when I come to your town, I can text your phone directly and say hey, I met the Majestic Theater tonight at eight o'clock instead of relying on a main feed post, which is probably not going to make the algorithm anyway. But a lot of people don't know that if you don't get a certain amount of likes in a certain amount of time, your post is not going to make

the algorithm. So you can be posting about going to Duluth, for example, all day long, and people in Duluth might not even see it. So this is the current issue with people that are touring is you go to Houston, you do five thousand seats, You go to the airport the next day and someone goes, oh my god, when are you com mees? I love you, I'm such a

big fan, what are you doing in town? And you're like, well, if you're such a big fan, how did you not know that I was all these people, especially in the big city where there's multiple events, And oh, finally, yeah, you probably wouldn't have gone anywhere, but it was. But I posted on Facebook, I post on Twitter, I posted on my main feet, I posted to my stories, but nobody saw it. And this And because comedians for longest time, we're relying on email databases. People change their email, they

usually don't change their number. So this is the way to get to you right away. I can text you instead of blasting all my followers for Orlando, I can just text Orlando people directly. Um, which is this is a godsend and I think it is going to be major leagus. Let's go back a few chapters. What was your experience at PEN? Oh? Great question. I it was very expensive. Um, so how did you pay for us? So? I paid for it by doing a QVC in Westchester.

I did QVC where I modeled self Tanner UH and UH track suits, and I did informal modeling at King of Prussia Mall. I would walk around in wedding dresses and I had to pay off my loans which took cares and I did it in three years, so it was cheaper. Okay, When you went to PEN, how expensive was it? I mean, wasn't it forty something Okay, so you went. They didn't give you any financial lead. No, they gave me some. They gave me um My mom's boyfriend helped, and then I had some loans. Okay, how'd

you get the gig? QVC? I was worked when I was in d C in high school in Washington, d C. I would do informal modeling at Bloomingdale's Tyson's Corner and White Flint and some magazine stuff. And then I got a local agent in Philadelphia called Reinhart Modeling Agency, and I would work at King of Prussia Mall, walking around and they got me an audition, and I'm very telegenic. I don't know if you noticed absolutely here, But was this a dream of yours? Or is this just some

way to make money? Money? Was a dream of mine having? Okay, so you go to Penn. Did you always want to go to pen? I didn't. I wanted to go to Stanford actually, and I don't even know why. I always had this draw to California to tech. I wanted to go to Stanford. I didn't get into Stanford early decision, didn't get in, but then got into Pen and and uh Annaberg. I wanted to major in communications. I still

don't even know what it is. Uh does anyone? But I think communications at Annaberg a Penn accidentally was the perfect education for a comedian because all they did was tear apart and analyzed media. I took this UH class with Joe Turou where all they did was talk about how advertising influences our brains. It was basically the way comedians evaluate the world. How is it? You know? Nature and nurture? And do does do video games cause violence?

Like all the kind of things that you would explore as a comedian and so um, well, you know, I went to college and I found the most I learned was outside the classroom. So you were a Penn Did you fit in? No? Not at all. I worked in New York, uh two days a week modeling bridesmaids and wedding gowns. So I was only at Penn three days a week, and I would do classes nine hours a day, three days a week, and then I'd be working in

New York. Okay, So the first year you lived in the dorm, uh No, I lived off campus all three years. All three years I lived off campus on eighteenth and JFK and Philly. So did you have any friends at pen I had a couple of friends. I have two very good friends. One you might know she wrote a book called Meet Me in the Bathroom that is about the music scene in New York in two thousand four. What's your name, Lizzie Goodman? I know that I don't know, Yeah,

Elizabeth Goodman. She wrote this brilliant book called Meet Me in the Bathroom. We would go to New York and like party with like the Vines and the Strokes and all the those and all the cool bands. And she ended up writing a book about it that I think is getting a TV show. Um, so she's out here now. And then another girlfriend. Mind. So I had like two or three friends at penn Um, but not much. I

was working and I was you know anyone that knows me? Now, let's go back at chapter You're from d C. Okay, how many kids in the family? Three? And where are you in the higher wark that I know of? I haven't done my twenty three and me I am the youngest. Would you wait, let's start? Would you do you know? I absolutely would. I just did the National Geographic version of it. I did the twenty three of me one and I didn't spit in it right and think there

was a special I failed that test. I am so look, I am the first person to you know, you sort of dive in all this stuff. I am so not terrified of by I just think we have you know, we've gotten so paranoid about all this stuff. Okay, But as I say, if you do it and correctly, how do you feel, other than finding out about certain health issues, how do you feel about people all over the world being interacting with you and saying I'm related to you.

I will do absolutely anything if I can sublimate it into a joke or TV show idea or movie idea. I love taking risks like this. I would love to have that was your reason to do it? Yeah? Absolutely, So what else have you done like that? I when when I first moved to l A, I first got a check. I was doing a It was like almost the first sponsored content deals that was happening. I did a talk show for Lexus in one of the new Lexus cars. It was like the first gig that really

made me. VICE was doing it and I got twenty dollars in episode. I did five episodes. I finally had money. I got Alexis hybrid and was that on top on top of they gave me like a lease or something, but then I had to pay it after something, and then I didn't know about taxes, by the way, so I spent it all. I didn't know my owned money,

so I lost money on that. UM and I went to the gas station and I filled up the hybrid with diesel fuel by accident, because I thought the green meant like green, like healthy guys, it's like good for the environment. Was twenty six years old, right, and it totally destroyed the car, and I wrote this awesome bit about it, and from then on out, I was like, the biggest disasters of my life are what are going to pay my bills? In terms of being a stand up,

I have this. I'm crazy lucky that I could have this job. That the worst things that happened to me end up being great jokes. Okay, another worst thing that ever happened to Um? Oh gosh, well, I mean every breakup ever, the worst dates of my life are my best jokes. The most humiliating moments of my life. Okay, but now you're engaged, right, I know, So how did

you me went? I go to everybody's Wikipedia. I mean, I know you from Howard starting on I know other things about you're in the news, but I did Actually I didn't know that. Uh told me. Oh my goodness, No way, I was something with Nicky Glazer. Maybe not. No, I was listening to that. Bobbaue did not tell me, although I saw him the other week. Nicky Glazer was on Joe Rogan. Uh, and she talked about you being engaged. That's how I know. Yeah, it's like three hour episodes.

Say yeah, no, I I, um, that's so funny. Yeah. No, Look, I every day I'm like, can I just go on a couple of dates. I won't kiss them or make I just need some more material. You know is a comic. I'm just I am obsessed with Let's try. Let's fine for Kate. You know, looking for Mr Wright and you know is a little bit different from looking for material. Okay, So prior to meeting Mr Wright, how often did you date? Um? I am as as anyone that knows me who's listening.

I do stand up every night, three or four spots tonight. Are there Comedy Store. They have three rooms. Best club in the country. Laugh Factory, Improv than all these other little anelka. So I'm working all the time at night. So I've never been a person that puts relationships first. Um. And I say that with love because it's just I can only make relationships work when I'm able to put that first. Okay, So let's just say subsequent to pen did you have any serious relationships to until now? Um?

I thought they were serious. You think they're serious when you're in them. And did you live with somebody? Yeah, I've lived with the I lived someone for a couple of years before that. And how did you meet in that person? What they do? We They were a writer, big TV writer. I dated a big director. I mean I've dated you know, people in this field. Um, and was lucky to actually learn from them too. I was very like, don't date anyone in Hollywood, and You're like, no,

why these are the people in work. It's like, don't date anybody at the company. Of course, that's where else you gonna be. Yeah, where else you're gonna meet people. And like, I want to be able to talk through

all this stuff. I dated a in anesthesiologists like three years ago, and I remembered I had a development deal or a show at HBO and I had the table read the next day and I was like working on at memorizing and He's like, what's the big deal, It's just a table read and let's not just like oh, like I I now see the value of your question. How did you meet an anesthesiologist? He I dated him when I was in college, when I was nineteen. It

was he lives in Portland. Is wonderful I had dated I once I've realized people knew I had money, or that I had I was gold digged a couple of times, or I had really yeah, did these people even have jobs? Or they were like between gigs or what. It was just this thing where I was like they I get people that like guys that want to be comedians and they think dating me like will help them, or just a couple of guys where I realized like, oh, no, you want to be a writer, or you don't have money.

And someone asked me to pay their student loans, Like it was just did you pay this? I have? Yeah, USC does have some of my money? How does someone pitch I didn't have to pay Rick Singer? It was how does someone pay my student loan? It's more of a like it was more of a if I'm gonna be honest, maybe I'm the monster in the story here.

It was more like I'm working this. He was working some crazy job that like kept until two in the morning, and I was like, well, I have to go to bed at midnight, so you can't do this and this was and I was like, I'll just pay for it. Let's make it go away because I have to sleep. Okay, but let's go back because it's a little great. So you had a couple of live in relationships. How long

did they last? One was two years? I guess it was just one live in one and and l A and that person to the you want to talk about what was his gig? Uh? He is a writer, a movie writer. Okay, why did it end? I was young and stupid. It's twenty seven. Uh, and I got I had a TV show and was doing two TV shows and it was just you know, Okay, was it you were doing TV shows and you did not have time for him, or you wanted the perks of having to TV shows you wanted to trade up? So oh no, no,

I don't think it was that. I think I just uh, you know, was still I was just not. Uh. I also had not started my recovery journey, um, which anyone that knows me knows, I'm gonna tell step program. And I worked a pretty hard allan On program now and I wrote a whole book about codependence and love, addiction and all that stuff. So I also was, you know, in my in my addiction. Okay, so you were a drinker? Nope, alan On? So an all On? Yeah, so everybody you

were involved at so we've had some sort of addiction problem. Um, No he wasn't. So what motivated you to go to alan On? Um? I have a lot of alcoholism and mental illness in my family. Um. The first time I got TV show, I realized that I had some blind spots in terms of leadership and the inability to tolerate the discomfort of others. It was impossible to fire people, it was impossible to give notes. I wanted people to like me. Um, I was doing everybody else's jobs for them. Um.

I was addicted to control. So how do you deal with the concept with the insight about wanting to everybody to like you? You deal with it when you realize I'm three scripts behind because I've spent more time trying to make sure this employee likes me instead of I understand you'll understand that, But how do you deal with the confrontation now? Now I'm very clear or in direct about it, after you know, eight years in a program. But it used to be like no, no, I love it.

I love it, and then I change it, and then you go, well, no, they wanted to change it. You blame someone else. And what do you say now now if I even hire someone that is a mismatch, which I used to do all the time because I used to sort of hire for all the wrong reasons. It used to sort of be like we have great chemistry, or we get along really well, or um, like we say in in program, is like they're a Christmas tree. They light you up, they're activating some kind of And

when do you realize you made a bad choice? Um, when you feel any kind of adrenaline around the person, or when your behavior starts to change around the person, or when you start being inauthentic around them, like how was your weekind it was? When you start being faked, it's usually when I know that I've recreated my childhood circumstance. Do you ever have that kind of experience with someone over great and have it work out they're good at their job. Yes, yes, yes, I m M, yes, I

think you can do that now. I didn't. There's a couple of staffs I have I've worked with recently that I didn't put together myself. But I am confident now that yes, I can have chemistry with someone but also go like I have the ability to tell you know and I don't. I'm not walking on eggshells around a personality disorder, narcissism or an ego or whatever thing that I'm magnetically attracted to because I grew up around Okay, but let's let's go back to the dating thing and

then we'll get back to allen on after that. It is way more personal than I thought I was gonna be. It wasn't prevared. I thought this is gonna be like a business. This is your life and this is our life. But in any event, so you have that individual as an attractive woman in a visual business, I would think that you get hit on an asked out on dates

on a regular basis. I really don't. I Uh, it's so funny, like all of the like is in this business that are notorious for dating a lot of people I would like go out with and then would be like, so what do you do? Like where do you invest? Like I become a sexual very quickly because I'm not very good at all that and uh, I'm not just good at understanding if someone's flirting with me or if someone's interested to me. And I was always going off

and doing stand up at six thirty at night. It was okay, but if you're on the date with that person, so you're what is your go to thing to do on an uncomfortable date? Oh, an uncomfortable date? Um? Many do you do? You pick up the conversation? Do you feel that's your responsibility? Uh? Yeah, I'm kind of remember that first or maybe it's the third episode of The English Office when he went on that bad date and he's actually I didn't see it, but keep going, Oh

my goodness, certain things you know? Yeah, I mean and uh he said, uh something like asked me anything, I can talk about anything? How's that before stomach? It's just this great thing. I can pretty much talk to anyone and even if it but I'm talking about when you feel uncomfortable, do you fill the whole? Uh? That's in search joke here, Um, when I feel uncomfortable, yes, if you give me ten, I'll give you ninety. Are used to. Now that I'm recovery, I'm now able to just go like, okay,

I feel like this isn't going great? Should we call it? Like? I can do that now? Right? Okay? But once again, okay, so you went to recovery? How long you go to alan on? About eight years? Okay? What was the final thing that's says? A miracle? It's a miracle, I I it's a brilliant way to reparent. And I also I wasn't able to say no, that's the other thing I'm doing every no. But I'm asking what was the trigger

that finally made you go? Um? I have a lot of family in uh struggling with alcoholism and addiction, and I was martyring myself and you know, paying for rehabs and you know it was making my life on me. Okay, so let's go back. You're the youngest child, yes, sir, to me, your two other siblings much older older sister and older brother who lives in London. But how much older are I'm sorry? A year and a half and then I am a mistake it's known uh sort of like a joke in the family, UM, which I think

is part of the achiever complex. The I was never asked to be here and I need to earn my keep type thing. And I always sort of had that psyche. And then my brother uh lives in London. He's a half brother who's older. I think he's forty five. Okay, so you grew up under what kind of circumstances were all of you under the same roof with two parents or what happened? Yes? Yeah for the most part. No, my parents split when I was younger, um, and it was you know, two parents who were worked a lot more,

very busy. I had to work very hard to get attention. UM. I developed a sort of entertainer complex. I developed the ability to shape shift or in a good mood, if you're in a bad mood, do you need funny, do you need you know? Responsible? Do you need to cook? You know? I kind of um became a parent uh at a very young age in a way and very um uh self contained. UM. I was alone a lot as a kid, and how to entertain myself and I

checked out using fantasy. I spent a lot of time in my room, writing stories and interviewing myself and putting on plays for myself and you know, um, writing scripts. I wrote a spec for Animaniacs when I was eleven. They never got it. I wrote it in a notebook. Um, I didn't even know that's what I was doing. I was like, I'm writing an episode of this show. It was my favorite show. Um. I would make music videos like I was. You know, I had to keep myself entertained.

But I definitely okay, but you were shape shifting. Were you getting a good reaction or no matter what you did, it didn't work. I think the thing that got the most attention was achievements and my dad valued Uh this is your step is my actual dad value? Contact did you have with your actual a lot um? And what did he get remarried? Yes, many times his his I got his attention when I achieved. Um. He comes from Virginia, West Virginia, lower class. For him, achievement was everything. Getting

into a good college, um was everything. So for me to have the best grades half straight a's, that was it. And I've had developed a sort of perfectionism. Okay, So what was your experience in school? Were you the genius that girls didn't want to talk to or what. No. I was the person who wasn't always naturally smart. So my tactic was outwork everyone. Okay, work harder than okay, but you achieve good results. But how did you fit in amongst the or thirty kids in class? Not well?

I was not particularly I was not particularly popular. I think I hate when people say that always that's right now. I was in a very clicky Catholic school UM called UH outside of d C, I was in a couple but UM. Then when I graduated from and I actually lived in Roanoke, Virginia for a couple of years with my aunts, and then I transferred back sophomore year of high school. So I was the weirdo that was like had the wrong uniform and I was like walking in

when all the girls were friends. And but I was good at basketball and I was really good at volleyball, so I was kind of like a sports girl person. But I was very much on my own. I had one friend named Lee Stitzer, who was like a goth girl, and we would like hang out, and you know, I also had all sorts of you know, eating disorders, so I was very like isolated and weird that way. I was modeling at the time, so I was gone for a couple of days at a time. I did not

really How did you feel internally? Um? Numb. I didn't really feel much until my MIDSI feel you didn't yearn to be a member of the group. I think that I, um know, I never thought that I could really fit in. I didn't really. I just tried to succeed. Okay, so you succeeded. You got into pen where basically you worked, and you did it in three years. So now that you're adult life, are you someone who now fits in

or is that still an issue? Huh? I think that you know, it's interesting because I think we're in one of the only towns where having approval from strangers and fitting in or kind of synonymous. It's hard to tell sometimes because you can show at a party and everyone's like, wait, wait, wait, but but we might not hang out me. You know, I don't know. I know a million people. If I fit in, I don't know why. I don't know if

it's because of may effervescent or you're you. Something happened to you, either positive or negative that you want to share other than your boyfriend fiance. How many other people can you call when I what something it's specially good or especially bad happens, not family member friends, It depends. I don't share good news normally I have Uh, I would say for people that I for, I would say like family people And Okay, so, so at this late date,

do you feel very singular or embedded? Singular or embedded embedded in with entrench do you mean exactly? I'm it's tricky because I am such a lone, weirdo wolf type person. I mean, I'll be on tour for you know, six months, and I won't be able to see anyone for six months, and then I hop I pop back in. I'm like, hey, guys, what's up there? Like you missed three weddings? Like what

is you know? It's most of my really close friends are comedians who we know that we can sort of not see each other for three months but have lost no time or credit or there's no like scorekeeping in our friendships. So most of my my tightest friendships are with people that have the same lifestyle. Okay, let's go back to the relationship thing. Did you have relationships in high school? You are like Howard, You're It is like being because it's like zig zag. It's like there's there's

no way to get with you. I have a I told you I didn't get these sleep last night. I told you I had migrated, and you were like, perfect, Okay, I'll roll with that. It's good. You're very You're just your brain and works so fast. Okay, So relationships. Did you have relationships in high school? No friendships? No? No, I'm talking about boy girl No no, I mean yes, but nothing real. So when did you lose your virginity? Oh? Wow? Does he always ask this to people? Does he ask

this question to you? Don't have to answer anything. This is a wild show. I think I was fifteen. I would say, okay, so you had enough relationship to it's not a young we're That's not what I'm finding. I'm trying to I come from Kavanaugh Country. Well that was that your Marylands tak advantage of you know? How dare you accuse him? Um? No, I didn't. I didn't. I don't. I wasn't. I didn't go to parties like that. I was like a sports dork and I lived with my mom.

Did you like sports and stop about today? I was very good at basketball, like when and played in Europe, Like really, hey you yeah it was? It was My whole life was playing basketball. And then I, you know, I was also modeling to make money and I started, you know, sort of leaning into the eating disorders associated with botteling, and I stopped being able to play basketball. Okay,

so do you take a sports today. I have a sport court at my home and occasionally for Instagram, I will play basketball just to prove to people that I can, because no one believes that I can. I did an episode of a TV show that I did for NBC where my character was really good at basketball, and everyone's like, is that c G? I was that put In and put you know. So I'll do it sometimes just around my house anything else. You are? You a person who

works out? I used to work out a lot, but this past year I was touring so brutally that I was getting sick a lot. Um. You know, this whole stand up touring road dog thing is really it's cute when you're twenty five, when thirty six, it's not a joke. So I started getting sick a lot, and I stopped working out as much. Um. For a couple of reasons. This exciting thing happened where like women with different sort of shapes and sizes can be on television. This happened

like a year ago. I stopped feeling this pressure, you know, to be in like incredible shape all the time, and I found like this kind of a waste of my energy. This three hours like door to door to a trainer thing. It's right, it's crazy. Okay, So once again, how did you meet your fiance? Wow? An app called Riya Uh. It is like Tinder for people in the business. Have you not heard of ria? How are you? Okay? I heard of it? I had Okay, so you have a

girlfriend though? Yes, since I had a free uh subscription to a o L in the late nineties, I lived online. Why does he say phrase is a joke of free subscription? What it was in ten dollars? No, that was when everybody paid by the minute. You're not you know, you're right? Oh my god, because one time I borrowed my friend Dave Lairs. Um, he probably listened to your podcast, uh, and it was like four thousand dollars. Oh my god. Once year, at the year two thousand, it was all

you can eat. That's different. So the bottom line is I checked out all those things. Love it a O l if I could, if I could find my account. I was so early on match dot com at I have a lifetime account. Whereas you should treat yourself to takeing andandera riah. It's an it's not invitation only, but you have to be approved by a board. And it's lots of celebrities like John Cusack is on it. I'm calling him out, Uh, lots of like it's like all the men in Hollywood. I feel like I've been trying

to avoid for the past fifteen years, all in one place. No, but I find a fact I got into so early. It was when the in the nineties and the earlier part of the century. That was when people still had a fantasy that they could meet the right person. It's not knowing that in almost all these cases the problems with themselves, okay, whereas now it's totally different. It's a you know, it's a known way, and people go, I

love it. I think it's great. I you know, I get I think there's a certain point in your career just I mean, I'm so pro meeting online. It's crazy. So did you try other apps before that? I was on Tinder as a joke to write jokes about it, and I got on like Grinder to like see what it was forgetting grinder, which is gay if we start on tin. Did you actually go on any dates with those people? No? I went on one tender date, like I was going through just writing jokes about it because

it had just come out. I had this whole chunk in my third stand up special about it, and so I was on it. I didn't like see a cute guy on there that I was like, I feel like I know him somehow. And we started flirting and he's like can we meet? And I was like sure, Like why not? You know, like I'm at the comedy store, come by, like there'll be people around. He can't murder me. And he showed up and he was like, oh my god. I didn't think it would really be you. And I

was like what, Like he thought it was understanding. He thought it was a joke or something, and I realized, like, crap, I probably can't do this. So how did you decide to go on royal Um? A friend of mine was on it and she uh, and I was like looking at it and I was like, Okay, why not well, how desirous were you of meeting Mr Wright? Um? Pretty, I mean that's pretty programmed into my you know, wish list. Um.

You know, for me, I think that relationships. I'm gonna this is gonna sound sociopathic or like mercenary or something. But UM, I think that healthy, stable, romantic relationships are a great business decision. Um. The chaos of dating and uncertainty and you know, um, it's not appealing to me. Um. I look at a lot of people whose careers I really admire, and they have very stable, borderline boring home lives so that they can have energy available for their

creative endeavors. And I have enough um risk and uh, chaos and pain and vicissitudes in my professional life. I don't want him in my personal life. Well, it's very interesting because David Brooks he wrote a whole book or article saying, who you marry is the most important decision that he divorced his wife Brooks. If that's a real Hollywood answer, No, David Brooks from The New York Times A long time I that's wild. Yeah, No, there's is it a flowbear quote? Be boring in your personal life

so you can be violent in your creative life. Something I just find that. You know, and I know a couple of people in arrange marriages. They're good, man. I can't just throw that out there. I'm I would believe in that now, like where okay, by whom South Asians have to say that? Not conventional white white people in America? Okay, but now am a somewhat of a believer in arrange marriages. Not literally, I think you should marry someone who has the same frame of reference. Okay, I can't believe you

just said that. I almost wrote a joke about that because I dated a guy who is older than me, and he always want to listen to Robert Plant and I didn't know any of the songs, Like, is that what you mean? Like this one element? But that's we didn't know the same That's like the classic guy mary, you know, getting involved with someone much younger. What then

do you talk about that is? I mean, it just was more like in the in the car, I want to turn up Robin and saying to the top of my lungs, and then he wants to and it's just like it's just a road trips. Okay, but I'm really talking about something different. Okay, I came from a family. My parents are good plenty. My father died long time ago. My mother's ninety two. And Connecticut. I did google you, Oh, I did google middle Bar That's why I went to

college in Vermont. But I grew up in a you know, melting pop culture, went to public high school, but it was fifty miles from New York, so it was all New York media. Can I ask you a gossipy question out do you know Jim Burrows? I know who that is? I don't know, okay, because apparently he owns more of

Vermont than the state of Vermont. Well, when I went to Vermont, it was still right, it was before it turned left because everybody moved there back to the land movement, and people were there and stayed there, like my college roommates stayed. There's a wonderful club in Burlington. Right when I went to Burlington, they had one, you know, that was thirty five miles north of Middlebury. So I would go there to buy records because you could buy them discount.

But this was before Ben and Jerry's was before it was hip. Burlington was not a hip. My brother went to university Everymont, right, I mean I went to college in the dark ages, in that there was no internet and there was only one snowy TV station, and I missed those I missed if I missed four TV stations, now that I just had to pitch to fourteen streamers. But the interesting thing was you were going to college.

When I went there, there's eighteen hundred people. Now it's like dred and it's like it stunted you in so many ways. Saw the same people all the time. They were like your brother and sister relationships, you were rare, You lived on campus, you never read to expectancy was long, sounds awful, And if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't go there. But no, I am

from Connecticut, interrupted you. So uh. But going back to the oh, when I said, from the same thing, some of these criteria same income, same level of education, parents, staying together, these are critical things. It's like the woman I was married to, sure mother had been married multiple times, and the father left one woman while we were there. So the fact that she left me, that was part of the d n A. So also like I did. Daniel Glass, who's a guy. At the time, he ran

a company called SPK Records. That was Wilson Phillips a million other people, and I did, okay, well, this was their very first appearance at that convention the end of eighty nine in uh the desert. But in any event, um the he said he needed three things to work at SPK records. You had to really want to work at SPK records. You had to work retail because that's where the transaction took place. And you had to have graduated from college. Now I have a law degree on

I got to play education. But I nailed, you know, Daniel Leader, and I said, listen, we live in a we work in a business. David Geffen Irving as off they didn't finish college. He goes, No, it's not about what you learn in college. It shows you can complete something. And these are really important criteria. So it shows that you have money to finish college. It shows that your parents are rich. Well need let's just say college is much more expensive even you know, with adjusted dollars. I

mean it's becoming eugenics program exactly. Well. Also, who you meet in college, well, I guess this is my network. Yeah, exactly. I didn't go to one of those colleges or it was before that era. Um. But the point being that certain similarities I think are better when you then encounter the world. When you talk about that original team thing and the way we originally do it is we go to a bar, we go to a party, we meet somebody. It's based on looks, conversation, all these other things, mega

lack of other people you've met, you know. I think now that there's there's this sort of you know, you know, I mean, the the age of people losing the virginity is going up. I noticed that, it's wild, but you didn't. Also you notice that day I understand. But the other thing about it is the more educated you are, the less chance that you will get divorced, and the more chance you will even get married, especially in today, in today's world, we can have children without being married. Yeah.

I mean, look, you you are a master of the law and of the five I mean marriages of wild you know thing, and you know it behooves you in some ways economically if you stay together. Okay, the person you're engaged, who have they been married before? Okay? How old is this guy? My age seven? Okay? And what does he do for a living? Okay? So how many frogs. Did you have to kiss before you make um? Uh plenty plenty five twenty. I'm talking about once you join

the ap? What is what I would saying, what does kissing frog mean? These days? I went on on Rya actually, believe it or not, so many people were sending me resumes and asking me for jobs that it like I ended up meeting a couple of people that end up being like platonic friends. There was one guy on there that like invented some web browser and I was like, hey, like, you know, do you want to just get a drink and can I ask you some financial advice? And I

asked him like who we invested with and stuff. So I ended up just sort of like meeting some really interesting people on there. But I don't know off Rya, maybe one he was maybe the second guy. Yeah, you're texting with a lot, but you're not meeting up with a lot. I was in post production on a movie at the time, and I was so bored in the editing room that I was like, right, was like a video game. I was just texting with everybody and not actually going out with anyone. Okay, so how did you

connect with your fiance? He was in New York. Um, and I was. I very much felt like, Okay, the person that I'm going to a date next is not in l A like I know everyone. So no from he was he's from Kentucky and them was in New York, Tucky. He's from advert from Kentucky. So Kentucky like backwoods like backwoods? Yes, backwoods Kentucky. What did his parents do for a living? Um? Uh? One was made documentaries, okay, and advertising. It's okay. So he's in New York and then in New York and

we I'm good in small doses in the beginning. I also have an addictive personality, and if you're in the same city, we might just too much, too fast and blow it up. Well, how many times have you hurting your life? You're too much for people? Many I can tell that? Really, come on, Okay, So I haven't heard it from I've only heard it from guys in relationships who are losing an argument. I haven't heard it from like, let me let me ask you. Are you capable of

losing an argument in a relationship? Um, But that's a loaded question. My dad was a lawyer, and it's very hard for me too. I I don't like to lose. I have my answer, But I do know that capitulating and apologizing is often actually winning, So I don't I don't know if I learn that in the Yes, I get you know, winning sometimes the best way to win a war as a masterful retreat. Um, And I can own it when I don't think that losing an argument

means admitting you were wrong. You know a lot of times it's me admitting like, hey, I shouldn't have handled it, that I shouldn't have done that, I'm sorry my back. Okay, So let's go back to your fiance. So you're on the west coast, he's on the East coast, and so how do you ultimately connect over Riah? Then we started texting, and Um, I was back and forth. I was writing a book at the time, and I was back and

forth from New York. I like rented a place in New York and I had this sort of like romantic vision of writing a book in New York and that's where I was going to get my creative inspiration. So I was there and saw like every two weeks for like a year, and who was into who first? Um it seemed mutual. UM, I think it was mutual. Okay, maybe on dating apps works that way people in real life. No,

you know, I think it was mutual. Um, I've definitely I'm very clear when I'm interested in something, and I don't like to waste time or play games. So I'm sure ostensibly I came off a little more like are we doing this and we're not doing this because I don't have time to be in this in between? And Okay, so then you have a relationship, how do you decide you want to continue with theoretically for all time? Um,

I'm pretty uh. For me, it's like if if within a year, if there's you know, it's not going well, I'm pretty good about being like, I'm gonna call it. Um. I love what I do. There's a lot of things I want to do, so I don't really sit around and like wait for something to fizzle or work out. I kind of tend to So how come he hasn't been married till he was thirty seven or you don't know? I think that that's a is that late? Well, they say, they say, don't marry a guy over forty who's never

been married because he's set in his ways. Okay, but these are you know in the year you know, nged marriage. But as I say, so, thirty seven is within the limit. Okay, but but it is still high. So it makes me wonder. You know, he's not in a negative way, but his identity.

Well that's interesting because I also if I'm with someone who's already been engaged or married, I'm like, well, they proposed everyone, but specially I know someone like that, Yeah, who thinks the way he proposed to like three women before he married the first wife. Whatever. I know a guy who is a very successful movie person who's been engaged many times. In his theory is it's just a ring. It'll make things copasetic. Guy, I don't, don't. I'm just

saying that person ever been married is now. Yeah. But right, my guests, I'm not a big like you know, I'm just want to be able to do what I do in an effective way, and um, marriage just you know, it's it's good. I also need walls around me, Okay, but I'm trying to understand primarily why you're attracted. And what I'm hearing now is either there's a reluctant or

our lack of knowledge in terms of where he's coming from. No. I think he's just in an awesome and incredibly kind and down to be with someone who's unconventional and gone most of the time. So where you going to ultimately live? I just bought a house in Wooden Hills, California. How do you like to feel about living in the valley? I love it. I'm obsessed with it. I wanted four acres and to not see one house and my home anywhere else would be forty million dollars, So I'm upset.

It's basically too Panga. I wanted to live into Panga Canyon. So it's south of the boulevards. Is that what it is? Is it? Yeah? I'm up in the hills, like to Panga Hills, basically what it's called Woodland Hills. I love it over there. Um, I like a good deal, and I just think a lot of stuff around he's just a bad deal, and I don't like noise. Okay. Is there a gated community, yes, sir? Okay, So he's moved out here, and is he working? Yes, yes, sir, he

works for Vice. And so it would sound like financially you're more successful than he is. Um, you could say that, yes, and so so you can you're gonna get a pre nap. Yes, but he comes from his family. You know he wants it. There's no question about it, no awkwardness whatsoever. But is

there awkwardness that you earn more money than he does. No, weirdly, because he pays for all his own stuff and really goes out of his way to be like, I'm covering this and he's just very um traditional is not the word, but gets ahead of that. There's never been a weird conversation about that. And then I think a really good life hack for this is when we go on trips.

Because I get paid to post on social media, We'll do like a free room for me to post on social It doesn't feel like I'm like paying for trips and I feel cooky. And you plan to have children, I think so. I froze my eggs when I was thirty three, which is a really good decision on my part, if I may say so myself. I did it just out of just fear alone. And then I'll probably end up freezing embryos in the next couple of years. But I don't want to do it right now. So what

would be the right age to have a kid. I want to do in like two years maybe, Okay, that's not far Okay, thirty seven, So I'm pushing I mean, I'm definitely pushing it. That's why I ask. And whether that was a motivation to get married, I don't. There's just a gold rush in touring right now, and I want to tour again and I uh in the next year, and I don't want to do it pregnant. So how many dates a year are you doing now? I'm probably going to do a tour in March. Uh maybe? And

what kind of buildings do you play? I'll just do theaters, okay. And as I say, you know, most musicians would say they do it for the one or two hours on stage. You with the same viewpoint? Uh oh, I see. You mean you get paid to travel, not to perform. Yeah. Oh no. I I live for stand up. Um. It's one of the only things that brings me real joy and I love doing it for people that are in um, other cities, other places. What do you think of weird

stand up is today? In general? Couldn't be a more um exciting, uh, the truth place to be and not to mention, lucrative and bigger than ever, right, you know? I mean there's definitely, like, you know, comedians, you'll hear us complaining in the green room about who's this YouTube star who's playing that theater? And wow, why is that podcast guy selling out this you know venue there. There's

always gonna be that sort of stuff. But I think that just because of podcasting and social media, Um, people are it used to be like there's five slots on Comedy Central, there's you know, if you don't get to tonight show, you don't get to sell tickets. Now it's like, you know, different points of views are propping up and people are getting famous that deserve it. So what's the ultimate target, the ultimate goal for you? Um, I'm actually starting a podcast in a couple of weeks and I'm

very excited about it. Um, that podcast look like I was very trepidacious about it for a long time. Um, it's gonna just sort of be whatever fascinates me. It's gonna be scientists, it's gonna be artists, it's gonna be therapists, it's gonna be comedians, it's gonna be beauty X like anything that I'm sort of curious about because I spend all this time with these like incredibly smart people, and I realized I'm not Why aren't I? Why don't other

people get to listen to this? Um? So that's part of your life, you know, As I say, you seek out these people were experts in their area. Yeah, I just I like to surround myself with people that are just generally better than me. Um uh. Maybe it's just me being insecure or something. But I made a movie about neurology, and I end up spending all this time with these incredible neurologists. Um. And they were just telling me all this mind blowing stuff, and I was like,

why are we recording? This? Is crazy? And have my friends are unbelievably be brilliant comedians and when we're hanging out in the hallway and we're like, why are we recording all this? You know? So it's really very simple, just the people I find fascinating and funny. Okay, but like in a bigger goal, Okay, what's your ultimate destination? UM? To be able to continue doing stand up and to um never have to take a job that I don't want to take for money. But it's not like world domination.

You want everybody in America to know your name or something like that. Do people talk like that. Musicians absolutely do, really absolutely, they say like, I want to be a household name, well what I had. It really started with the police because the guys in the police, well the manager and the drummer, their father was in the CIA, so they had lived in all these different locations. So the manager said, ultimately, why don't we tour all these

places which no one else did. We'll go to India, will go to Africa, We'll go to all these places. And literally, you know, that's the early eighties, late seventies, early eighties, but by time they're on MTV, that became the goal, and of course the paradigm is completely shifted. You would make a record and the goal that you would be on tour. First it was two and a half years, then it turned to three or four years because you would go to every market and pick up

the money. Certainly as results of MTV. Up until like the year, MTV was in every territory, so you were either on MTV or you weren't, and if you were on MTV, everybody around the world knew you. Okay, paradigm is completely shifted, and people can't rest with that because I realized this. Like seven or eight years ago. The Empire State of Mind was a big hit and a friend of mine was doing the tour and he goes, I said, you know that means nothing in l A.

Forget that the song is about New York. Okay. So we have all of these acts except for the TikTok interaction with Little nas X. We have all these acts that are paraded in the channels that theoretically give you reach that are not that big. You look at tell us we wrote a song about me. It's a dangerous subject. But this record is a complete stiff. But if you went back to nine, which was a big hit, everyone knew the song We're never ever getting back together. You

ask somebody sing another song, they can't. There's a small segment who are fans. So if you go back to what I'm saying, it's like perfect, I say, David Brooks, you think of the movie Guy. Okay, it's like the New York Times. So when people, I mean, I find this myself, I used to think, well, if it was written in the New York Times, it was written in these places. People are aware of it. They are not, So the destination becomes different. So we're all on our

own vertical. But the result of what's happened about the seven eight a year, the last seven or eight years, there's internet cacophony such that it is harder than ever to grow your audience because the audience is inundated with messages, and what ultimately makes them connect is when they hear it from a trusted source as a purveyor. You're not really sure who those trusted sources are. It's that little well as I say, but you don't know which person.

You can't say, oh, this particular person is the person I need. And so it's funny. I mean, it's like, you know, being on latent I TV. I never watched Late Night. I just did two weeks of I'm sorry, two months of press and still unsure what moved the needle on my stand up special. I did three talk shows, fifteen podcast, Today's Show. It was just like you have to do all of it and just hope something sticks. It used to be you do Howard Stern, you do Letterman,

you do Kim All your Ellen, and you're done. Well. I'm at this point in time. I think I went through this with Howard in his book, He's speaking to his audience so dramatically, it's his act, my act whatever is very unique. If you're not into it, you hate it, that's right. And there's also there It used to be like I kind of know these famous people. Now it's you either have never heard of someone or you know

what they had for breakfast exactly. So now when I do shows, it used to be like, yeah, my wife likes you, and now I'm on stage of people like how's your knee? It's people that know me so intimately and will buy anything. You know, it's a it's a more passionate audio, but it's you know, less of how do you can as the as the purveyor how do you feel about that? I mean quality versus quantity of fans?

I mean that's always the question is if you know, fifty million people know you, but they won't pay sixty dollars to see you, you know, what is that? How is that useful? You know, if if people just yes, But that's a math equation that there's the emotional angle, which is totally different. Yeah for me. I mean, you know, there's obviously like a bigger moral calling and um, you know, well moral is a whole another thing. Yeah, exactly, So

I'm not sort of like getting into that. I think for me, like the goal is to reach the maximum number of people. Well, are you say, hey, I'd like to sell out Madison Square Garden. Yeah, okay, but it's harder. That's a kind of funny thing with Sebastian Maniscalco, whom I don't find funny. Dare I vehemently disagree. The only thing he did that I thought was funny when he was talking about how you can't drop by anymore. I

love that. That was the Entimates game, right right. But the point is people say, well, he's sold three Madison Square Gardens. This is when he was announced for the MPTV Video Music Works, which he bombed and hurt his career. Used to be you couldn't even hurt your career. The exposure be enough. But it's like Maroon five doing the Super Bowl actually worked against him. Okay, they say, hey, you know he did three medicines because of the Kaepernick thing.

I don't remember. Maroon five was on and they were basically bad, and they were involved in all these things. It used to be you got the exposure, okay, and you put the tickets on sale. The next day. But everybody knows who you are. But I also think, you know, I mean this passion thing. It's like, you know, he's got a very specific demographic, like you said, like his demographic will go see him four nights in a row that I know that most other people don't. They don't

understand that. It's like fish Fish will play one or two weeks in Madison's were Guard at the end of the year. We now know that. But if you read the New York Times or you read that, the people who think they know what's going on, they have no idea. This is what's so fascinating to make. Yeah, well there's

the I mean the Emmy's how many people watch them? Yeah, there's the blogger critical look as someone that comes from the multicam world, which is multi caamras when people actually watch but critics hate him, and we spend all our time trying to get approval from thirty critics instead of fifty million people. There is a point where you have to decide do I want the cool kids to like me, or do I want to be Walmart? Do I want to be the boutique store. Were the Emmy rating shitty

because of the programming and other channels post. You know, I think that this total overcorrection of we're so afraid that someone's gonna be problematic because we're listening to this two percent of the on Twitter, and we're so afraid of offending somebody with our host choice because everyone's problematic now ended up. I think it's my knee jerk. We actually was a little bit different. When you're a little

too young for this and Kurt Cobain off off himself. Okay, uh, the guy in sixty minutes, the crusty guy, his name will come to me in a second. He wrote, what a waste of life whatever. Eddie Rosenblatt was president of the record company, and I spoke with him the next day and he said something which really is always stuck with me. He says, movies, when done right, are larger than life. Music, when done right, is life itself. So

this speaks to your point about the knee, etcetera. When you when people go to see you, they're not going for a night of entertainment of good jokes. They want to see you because you are the act. Because if they watch on Netflix learning to get Better seats quite frankly, okay, then but knowing I'm in the room and I can yell something out and I'll respond to them. And also we got to be smart. Now. You know we're doing meet and greets after the shows. You're getting a picture

with my robot. You know, I'm signing a book like it's the But the other thing is you are the act all of your new roses, predilections, etcetera. Actors. It's not the who gives a funk? They're an actor. So why should I watch the Emmy's to see someone? It's really somebody else's shows, right, That's one of the reasons. And I think, you know, look like I you know, um, the people that know me know I'm as you know, pretty Um. I'm trying to think of a word that's

not going to be charged. Maybe progressive, it's just a good word. If we're going to use the Emmys to to lecture people about what they should be doing with their votes, are there, whatever, it's it's just really it's not an entertainment show. It's a celebrities or lecturing everybody. I understand your point, but I think it's a very small audience that's reacting heavily to that. Is that most people are deciding whether or not to watch the Emmys.

They just want to see the dresses you're wearing. They want to see a funny show. They want to see Seth McFarland dance tap dance. They want to see Tina fey and and Amy Poehler be funny. Okay, So, speaking of all those games in the varying verticals, movies, television, books, who do you think is knocking it out of the park? Who are your favorites? Who are your favorites? Sebastian manis of course. Um Ali Wong is killing it? Um Uh.

John Mulaney, I think it is really smart about the choices that he saw him in that play with the other guy. But I'm I haven't been turned on solely by his specials yet. I know I'm the only thing. It's okay, it's um. I can disagree with you and we can consist, but the only thing is everyone is against me on this um and Uh. I love Jim Jeffries. Um. I think he's really good at knowing how to do

what he does and leaning his strengths. Bill Burr, I love the way he just does what he wants to do, and he's like, I'm not going to do five D talk shows to promote him. To let the work speak for itself. Um, his touring business is unbelievable. Um Uh. Other people in TV, you create TV shows? What TV shows do you watch? I watched Succession obviously because I'm not a monster. Um. I watched a lot of things that I know I have to watch, Like there's a

lot of like homework viewing of this is whatever. Forget that when when you actually do watch of your own choice, and so many of my friends do. I end up watching because I have to, and then I have enjoying it. Like I just watched Dead to Me, I just loved it. Listen. Lisz Feldman was on Two Brook Girls and uh, it's just unbelievable, unstoppable. Um Russian doll a friend of mine made uh Leslie and Natasha. I was just blown away. Someone who's had to make stuff. I was just like,

the editing on this alone is causing me agit. Um Uh. Other things that I watched I watch all specials, um for obvious reasons. I watched a lot of documentaries, a lot of documentaries series. I was watching that Abstract show which is like that interview art show on Netflix, which I found really interesting. I watched a lot of stuff about robots because I have one, which root. I have a robot that looks like me. Um, that's at the end of my special. Um, i'll show it to you.

But this is audio, so you can into you just so we can get your reaction on audio. So she um, you know, is constantly being updated. And I'm sorry, trying to learn as much as I can about robotics. And that's question the future robotics in entertainment because you know, everybody has a robot, you know, three months later it's on a date if I'm asking one. So what does

your robot do that? She can talk, she can have extemporarius conversations, she can make Instagram content, which is usually what I use her for because I don't want to have to do it all because I get embarrassed. Um. But she's at the end, at the end of my special, and she's going to start like touring and giving her own talks. It but she's going to go by herself. Yeah yeah, she's she has an agent at U t A and she is going to go to speak at colleges and tech conferences. Okay, So how did you get

into this? I got into this because in this last special I ended up writing a lot about sex, robots and butts in general. I'd like forty minutes in my last special about it, and then I wadn't watch. But yeah, but that shows that I obviously clearly um. But basically I just watched watched the special and you guys will see. I don't want to spoil it, okay. And books, reading, magazines, newspapers. What do you read? Books, magazines, newspapers. I do try

to read books. Just got roon in Pharaoh's new book Cannot Wait to Dig in Anything. Joe Rogan tells me to read. I read, um, anything human nature, technology, what social media is doing to our brains. Um is usually anything that I can write material about. So are you? I read one called The Shallows just now, which is about how the Internet is changing our brains like that basically the way. So you're into reading nonfiction? Nonfiction? Oh

only yeah, nonfiction. I'm actually about to pitch Gary Steinart's new books Super Sad, True Love Store his new book what am I saying? Like success? No? Like success? That was the best book I've read in like three or four year to books ago. He wrote Super Sad True Love Story, which is the most brilliant, brilliant books I've ever read. Um, it was being developed. It's a drama, which I think it should be a half hour comedy.

So we're pitching that um soon. That was like the last nonfiction book I read at night was so good I didn't want to read another. Well, obviously you're full of energy if your home alone or you like, is upbeat. Um, I conserve my energy. And I'm really boring, but I'm on your podcast and I want to make sure that I'm good. I mean, how's your mental story will collapse when I get in your mental state? Are you someone who's tends to be happy tends to be depressed? Um?

You know. Usually I'm just gonna be honest with you. I think in comedy you're as happy is your last set. So if I have a great set, I'm in a good mood. If I have okay, So, if there's seven nights in a week, how many are you working tonight? Yes, sir,

get the last factory in the comedy story. And I'm working on new material, and new material is always like like a you know, trudge through quicksand and um, you know my mood is I'm not gonna lie greatly impacted by So just one thing you're working on now, I'm working on. I'm coming for the ballet, and I'm coming for charities that I think are scams. I have a bit about some charities that I think is okay, give me your take on balt because my parents dragged me

finally said, I think it's great. I just the bit i'm working on. I'm not gonna do a comedy in front of nobody in this cement room, but I do. I'm just working on a bit that I think is an interesting conceit of, Like I think anything should go away if you couldn't pitch it today as a new idea, Like if you're going to pitch ballet today, it's going to be awkward. It's an exactly how about base Blake put in the same category, you know what you really

could we have? What is that? It's just a bunch of guys in their forties who might kind of work out. I think older than that. I don't know enough about baseball that even pitch it as a joke. I'll have to learn, because that is a good one. Well, you know exactly, and there's a number of things you know from that our past say that people are reminiscing about. It's like Trump go back to you know what once was? What was wasn't so great? Yeah, right, right, right, let's

go back to coal mining exactly, Black Line. Well, at least I had a job. Yeah, the nostalgia of not having antibiotics. Um, but that and then a lot about how I were obsessed with privacy. Now all of a sudden, and you know, I mean, my phone number is getting leaked. It's like I remember the days when we used to have a book right full of numbers and addresses, and they would just throw it at your house. They were all over the street. Do you remember phone books everywhere?

I mean we used to like that. Listen, did you watch a breaking bad movie? No, I haven't seen it yet. It's not great. But the only thing what do you like? Oh? I like a lot of stuff. Okay. It's like, you know, if you read the New York Times book review, and they always be what are you reading? People always up pick up obscure stuff to look good. So there are a couple of obscure things. But I'll say I loved most of this ship. I want I binge. I don't

watch when it's on. Okay, okay, So like the Americans, I thought was great, brilliant. One of those shows that ultimately gets better. The documentary about the Bogwan on Netflix, right, okay? The one about the nun before that, that was really good. The nun who got killed, Oh you gotta watch. You know that I killed the nunther got killed? And you know it was the U in Baltimore. God, I can't remember the name. I don't know. Did you ever see the woman who wasn't there or the impostor which one

is the impols older? That's the I don't want to spoil it for everyone. The guy who was from Melbania and he ended up going to Dallas as a missing kid? Is that one I did? I thought you were talking about one of the Rockefellers, you know, you know the guy who faked being a Rockefeller. Oh yeah, amazing. I love that Charlatan body snatching. But my number one recommendation

when it comes to television is Happy Valley. If you watched Happy Valley, Happy Valleys an English show, the woman is on it, you see before she's the most successful. This is a drama Happy Valley. Yes it's an English b BBC show, but it's on She's one of the most successful what TV? She is literally the most successful TV actress in the UK. Uh this? Uh? Katherine who her? Absolutely? Really? I didn't know that. Sorry, you guys aren't seeing this? Um well read her name. It came on. I cannot

wait to see it. I thought you were going to say, like Katherine Tait or something. Um No, I watched everything. I have to watch the homework stuff. I watched clips usually the next day. Um, I want to go one more. This is an agent to turn me onto this. There's a French show about the town in Uh, France during the Second World War called a French Village. If these are like sixty five episodes, it's great, okay, But then it turned me onto another show. That show has deeper meaning. Okay.

There's a show called Spiral. It's a French cop show. Where are this wild French cop show on Amazon? Phenomenal? Okay, so like six seasons? Did you watch The Bodyguard? Are you like that? And I watched all that? But this is that's good? This is a like a level above now as I say this Spiral, which is a co production between Canal Plues in the BBC. You know, it's I watched because these actresses and actors. We've seen him

in other shows and it gets better every season. But you know, it's like watching a cop show in an American DV if the actors were moving, you know, much more skilled and there was war time put into it. It is nice to watch actors that I don't recognize at all. There's something just I think that for me the experience of watching television. I don't know if this

happens to you with music or whatever. It's like, oh God, I auditioned for that, or I know that actor, Like it's just it really does take the magic out of that Meryl Streep. I always see Meryl Streep acting. It's like, yeah, she can act, but it's always Meryl Streep. You know, I can't get into it. It is like and then I'm like, after like making enough movie and TV, I'm always like that was a d R, Like, oh that's a I can tell when something my fiance hates me.

It's like when they pick up the cup to drink and you know it's totally or when they turn their head, and it's like, well, I guess I'll cut you lighter. Who mixed this? Okay? A couple of other things. This is an old documentary, but legendary. Did you see capturing the Freedman's okay? And then did you see the one with triplets? What were they called? Oh? Yes, of course. I was in a hotel room in Michigan screaming. Where was I? I I don't remember. It was mind blow. Those

people who don't know. It's about three you know, Jewish babies in the Jewish family services, and I could say this Jewish who are separated at birth and then reconnect. That's it is. I was a dog, even though there's people like the twists are crazy. I knew twists were coming and it just blew my mind. Loved it, especially at the end. What's the one in Florida? The guy used to take the photographs and he died. That's another. Listen to the Ted Bundy tapes. Ted Bundy was alive

and killing people. Where my girlfriend from tallahasse He was so I was very familiar. It's like escaping Dana Mora. I'm not watching that. I read about it the newspaper. My god, that's so funny. I'm so fascinated by the the idea of releasing ted, But there's just what is going on with us that we want to hear? This is it? Is it? Are we getting into this weird

Roman colosseum entertainment like late stage late stage capitalism. Just watching I mean Twitter now really is the new colosseum, watching people get humiliated and detracted and taken down and abused, and we're just piling on and and some of this entertainment is like I don't need to see that. Well, you know, the change was in when we are the

Irhana hostage situation. That's when it flipped from the Vietnam era Let's question America to American do no Wrong, and now we have two camps and it's like really crazy. But there was one other show, the Hassan Special, so he's so great, you know, the one where he talks about growing up in Sacramento. That was unbelievab brilliant. He's

so brilliant. There's also I'd missed, just since we're talking about this anyway, to not mention V because I remember listening to the showrunner of Veep, I think on the NPR something talking about how because of what's going on in the news, it's so hard to uh right jokes because everything's you can't Like they had like a p tape joke and then it was in the news. It was just like, how do you write comedy in this space with how outrageous the news has become. It's actually

really becoming a problem for comedy. I mean, you know, people want to say comedy is easier than ever now these jokes just right themselves. Like, first of all, the stuff isn't funny. No one wants to hear about Trump on stage. I don't want us to hear about this, really, nobody, no one wants to hear about it. Can you see you can you hear an audible X tail in the room if it comes up? Okay, what all are at capacity? What is uh contemporaneous in culture that is good material?

I think, you know, I I think that this, like you know, and I don't say this in a pejorative way. I'm not like a PC culture is ruining comedy people person at all, But I do think that we tend to be responding to the narrative of like blogger culture instead of what America actually wants. To hear about. So I see a lot of common comedians going like, we are not allowed to see Trinity anymore. It's like everyone's like, what we're not like most people don't't know what you're

talking about exactly. We have to say they now instead of him, her, and everyone's like, I don't have health insurance asking about this is why SNL is so bad. There's no shared culture. Never mind that they can't get to a joke at the end. Problem. I love SNL. It's like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They

should have closed different. I'm fascinating. What I'm what I'm fascinated now is we have talked long enough, not intentionally, that it's not that your personality has changed, your presentation has changed because you know, hearing you on the RAF, it's because you come in when you're on Howard, it's like joke joke, and I feel like I'm always so boring on Howard, whether or not you are, which I don't think you are. The point is you are very quick.

They don't come any quicker than you. So I think that you know, being a male involved with you probably very challenging, and I think very challenging that's where you're asking me so much. I would think that your boyfriend doesn't speak that much. He's capable of speaking, but he's not dominating the conversation. He's I'm actually pretty beta in my relationships. I don't want to have to be in charge.

That's not what I was saying. Okay, what I was saying in terms of it's like, you see the debate every week that this person spoke this much, this person spoke that much. I would assume that you do the great majority of speaking. Forget what the underlying nuances. I see where, I see where you're going. And I also think that he's a guy who can accept you wards at all, which most other people cannot. M how dare you? Um? When you find the right guy, it's like a needle

in a haystack. Not everybody can accept me either. You got to find somewhere kind of meat. But I'm also believe it or not. Our biggest complaint in our relationship is really more we don't talk enough because I'm always working. I'm actually but you don't talk enough that you don't talk about important personal subject It's like, okay, we're doing this, we're doing that with the book the flo it's a lot like I am not very like delicate, and let's

talk about every little thing. I'm like, it's fine, there's no point in our So are you the guy in the relationship. I don't know what that means because I'm not. My girlfriend is the guy I would like to get touched. You're not going to break up? There's no point in having this fight. Win take it like, I'm very like that that's hard. It's just we're not going to break up. If we're not. If we are, we're not. Let okay forgetting on the time, but don't don't. Don't people at

some point need to be heard. I got you, we got the rest of our lives. Let me know. Can we do next? Can we put a pin in it? Like, I'm just very like, so wait, So let's assume I'm your boyfriend and you're running out the door. Yeah, at what point do I get my time? What do you need? I don't need anything. I just need friends. Show that he just recommended me on the podcast. I just need you to understand me and hear what's going on. So

I feel like that we're connected. Okay, Well, I'm not in a place to hear it right now because I'm distracted. Can we do it at a time where I'm more available? Okay, so let me help my book. When is that your book? Well, you sound like like your palm pilot. That's a that's a phrase. Okay, we still talk about records, you know, instead of trying. I'm also big on the three day rule of if we're hot and emotional about something, let's talk about it in three days. Great days, three days,

three days. You know today's world where someone gets killed and it's not even news in the afternoon. If we have an argument, I haven't even remember emotional and three days with this might be a different conversation. Let's have three days. But the world runs on emotions, is like the line. I think inherently it does. But that's like Twitter. People are offended, you know, that's like training and all

this other stuff. Not everyone's offended by it. But yes, uh you know for me, I just I have learned. I'm very economical with my time, and I think arguing while emotional, arguing well intoxicated on a dress, three days have passed. You are living three days past, because in three days I can probably go you know what that was? My fault. Right now, I'm gonna be defensive. I'm gonna you're gonna be dismissing, and I got it. Three days later, you're gonna say it's mindful. Gotta go. Maybe, Look, we

have a shared calendar there, you know, we have a thing. Don't. Let's not fight twenty minutes before I have to drive to this podcast. I'm already laid for, and um, you know, he's very he's he's uh. I'm lucky and so is even it's an afternoon. Is there any like date nights at certain times when it's all when I'm not running anywhere, so we can talk. Yeah, of course I don't. We

don't not talk, you know. I just my thing is like, I don't I don't need to get in little emotional fights all the time to feel alive or I don't conflate that with passion anymore. Okay, playing the psychiatrist where you grew up and you said you took care of yourself, your needs are very low on that level. It depends on who I'm in a relationship with, you know. I mean, I'm sure you're into like attachment styles and strategies and stuff. If I'm with someone who is avoidant, I get very needy.

And yeah, so it's sort of like if I'm with somebody who's unavailable, I mean before recovery, it would trigger my abandonment ship and I would be needy and what are you doing? And then and and when I'm with someone who's self contained and healthy, I as a result, I'm able to be self, which is where you are now. Yeah, so that's great. Don't be with someone who triggers all your ship and makes you fine. WHOA. I think your other point is better than that. I think you should

know you better than that. Very good. No, I think that most people are not in touch with their own issues enough. Yeah, I'm lucky that I have someone who's he's you know, can see himself. And no, but as I say, you forgetting that just specifically you say, don't get yourself in situations. Most people don't know well enough what triggers that, And then the older they get, the more they're wary of going into a bad space, so they don't do that. Yeah, I think it's important to

really just own your ship. And I sort of I know the wounds and I know what my deficiencies are, and I'm able to go. You know what if I have this conversation with you now, I'm gonna get defensive and my ego is gonna get involved, and I'm rushed and I haven't eaten today and I didn't sleep. But can we please do this in three days where I'll be fair. Let's talking about something really a board? Did you actually feel that earthquake? Lass night? I did? Do you think I lied to you? No? No, no, I'm

I didn't think you lied. There was an earthquake. I wasn't. I was not asleep yet even I was thrust for it Hills, yes, Woodland Hills. It wasn't the Center Compton, it was, yes, But it was like very deep, I guess because I normally feel all this ship. It was like it was I don't know if it's just my house or something. I don't know, but I was like thrust up. I also have like a little chandelier that I was able to see right, and I have dogs,

and there's animals and there's coyotes and ships. So I was like up and I couldn't come back to sleep for some reason. Scott, how we shake me to my core? How long did it shake? For? Two seconds? It was very short. I didn't. I still not over the ninety four earthquake. I wasn't here, but it seemed like it was traumatizing. I'm a late night but not quite as

late night as I was then. But you know, it was like at four twenty in the morning, and I had been in bed for like five minutes, and it was like a seven forty seven than was flying ten ft above my house. What happened in your damage, Well, the first thing I did was I ran out of the house where I wasn't wearing any clothes, and my

neighbors were dealing with me. I thought I was gonna die, so I ran out of that that ran out of the house, and the the insulators on the on the telephone poles, they were blowing up and the world was shaking. I literally couldn't stand up straight. And then my neighbors came out and we talked to I was wearing nothing, and then we talked like I was fully closed. Everybody was completely shot in shock. Huh, so are your neighbors. I bet you live in a fancy neighborhood, not at

that time, but in any event, uh. And then it shook for the following month, really pushed me over, I mean really fucked me up. I did a lot of damage, right, didn't take points. Yeah, but it shook. Ironically it was epicenter with north Ridge, but like if you were in Beverly Hills you were basically much better. But where I and Woodland Hills was actually pretty good because my sister lived there at the time. But in uh, Santa Monica, buildings fell apart and everything. It was just you know,

the freeway broken half. It's a nightmare. It's really a living nightmare. And word do as they say, Well, I'm not going to move away live Well, I did live in Santa Monica. Now I live with my girlfriend in Sherman Oaks, you know, okay, in the hills. So because you gotta be able to drive to the west side. This is like an argument. I would like to live on the west side. She doesn't. I don't know where I live or whether what side it's on, but I love it. Well, the thing about now is it's like

we're behind the screen. I could be behind the screen anywhere, it doesn't really matter. That's true, that's correct. I know I FaceTime meetings. I don't I don't go to meetings anymore. I usually do them over FaceTime or calls. Okay, I think we've covered anything you have to say. Um, I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't know what I was really walking into here. How is this different from other other we'll call it an interview that other with other people. You are intense in a good way,

in a good way. It's definitely more personal than I anticipated. I don't. I thought we were gonna be like talking about like I don't. I don't know for I thought we're really talking about like business. Well, one thing I don't want your personal life is your business, right. But one thing I don't want to do is asked the same fucking questions everybody else. As I was dreading you asking me if it's harder to be a woman in comedy,

I was waiting for how did you get started? I was waiting for, like, when did what was your first thing? So this has been a complete delife, trust me to complete departure completely surprising and definitely shook me out of my three hours sleep that I almost I did try to reschedule you guys, and he wouldn't let me. No, I've learned, you do it now. It was wild. He was like, I'm in Santa Monica. I was like, Oh, this is gonna be a this is gonna be a slam dunk. I was like, I haven't slept much. I'm

getting a migraine. I want to be an optimal You seem scary. Let me do this when I've rested more. And he's like, nah, today it works, Listen I have. I was like, I have a migrant. I even slept for three hours. Can I please do it when I can be my best self? He's like, see it, don't listen. I've had this Like, you know, I fly a lot outside business, and I found if somebody will come to India and six months and then you say, well, you know six months isn't really that because all we're gonna

do it again next year. You better go now because anything could happen. I mean you were available today. You know you could be hit by a bus and we could never do it, or you could have to go to New York. You were too excited about me being hit by a bus first of all. Second, are you team Scooter Braun? Uh? I would probably I'm not a verse two Interviewing Scooter Braun. Why why did you just mean like team that whole? I'm just now I have just a couple's music questions. Your music I a member

of his group? Is that what you're saying? Like Team Taylor or Team Scooter? Wasn't that the duel? Oh you're talking? Okay, she wrote a song about me, so anything I say has to be waited that way. So she is wrong on this issue. What do you think I don't know enough about it? Well, it's very simple. She he owned the music and she wanted to buy it back, and he wouldn't let her know. That's not the way it is. Somebody owns one of your TV shows, We're gonna use

easier numbers because TV is so much more expensive. Is it like packaging? Somebody owns your TV shows. Let's just for the sake of discussion, call it twenty episodes at ten million dollars a piece. That's two million dollars, and they tell you we're gonna sell it. Okay, Okay. Now,

let's also assume that you're worth seven million dollars. Okay, so you could always step it and buy it, so you can't complain when everyone knows and you personally know, and your father is on the board of the record company where they are discussing whether to sell it or not. You could have bought it, okay, So when they sell it to anybody, how the fund can you complain? And as far as it being Scooter braun see this is okay.

By the way, I don't know. Okay, No, but you expressed earlier that you are aware of your audience and how you come across. She is not. So she could do one of two things. She could own her identity, or she could go away for a while, go to college and actually learn there. A number of actors and actresses have actually done that. See see how that is. But especially look at you know, Britney Spears. She's like,

you know, you know, a hollowed out person. So when you've been famous for a young age, you are not in touch with the world. So when you go back to Twitter every day, I got people emailing me that I'm an asshole and tweeting that I'm an asshole all the Taylor Swift. If I even mentioned her name, the tweets come down. Okay, But forgetting Taylors. How come she of all people doesn't know not to fucking respond? She is so un educating this issue. She had her squad,

she tried to bring everybody in. Then people read it as fake. It's like I know all this ship and I'm like a Zilient as famous as you. I don't know anything. No, no, no, it's got nothing to do. You know that there are certain things you can say on social media that people are gonna really blast you about. I appreciated that she did ask people to register to vote that I totally agree and I'm very positive. No, My point is, you know certain triggers that you that

you could post online. You choose whether to say them or not. And when you put one of those triggers and you get the negative blowback, you said, I chose to do it. I expect it. Whatever you don't put it on, go how did this happen? That you're in the game, you have to play by the game of the game. The other thing that she doesn't understand, and I don't want to put this as a takedown of her, is she the parent I'm shifted and she didn't understand.

Now we have metrics Spotify top fifty on your for those people don't know, on your computer version, not on the handheld version. If you hover your mouse over those lines. At the end, they will tell you how many streams that track has. They also give you like the first five or ten on the app. So the game has shifted to how many streams you have on Spotify, not sales. So she has this world domination. I think I'll be in every every TV show, every news magazine, and that

will make it. It It doesn't work that way anymore because we can look at the streams. Are people actually listening? So now I'm sure you don't follow with that closely. But she's doing all kinds of things that used to be beneath her. She did an NPR tiny desk concert, she did a singing something in Texas Stadium or maybe the Nashville Predators. None of this. I don't want to make this about Taylor Swift because believe me already, I'm gonna get it you. I'm a student of the game.

You're a student of your game. Okay, the corporation owns it. If I'm doing my own thing, I'm totally controlled what works. What were I make a choice? So you're making all these within that you set yourself free, but you don't say interested in politics today, I'm gonna go do an hour politics and say, how did the negative blowback happen? What happened here? I might say, like Neil Young has done intentionally a number of times. He killed his career.

You have this album Harvest sold out arenas and didn't play any of it, played all new rocky music, So he intentionally wanted to do that. I had a one time I went to Lauren Hill, who's my favorite favorite, and she did and this is not blamed. Who did you say? Lauren Hill? And I She's be able to do whatever the hell she wants. I want to be able to do whatever. Comedians are different is we have to play new we have to do new stuff. You haven't heard. You don't want to hear the hits. You

come to hear new stuff. And I remember Lauren Hill did some of the you want to go and sing along, but that artist has sung the song fifty million times and might not want to do, you know, And she did had a couple of her songs like in a different way, and we were all like, we can't sing along. It was just like, well, it's an interesting thing because it used to be you could promote that you're doing

new material to scare off those people. But for the same reason, you can't reach everybody with any message today like Todd Rummand did that. He said I'm doing this material and people came and they were pissed. Anyway, people ask for their money back. If they don't, usually don't. They really just go online and bitch or tell their friends. But what ultimately is the point is if you want to trade on your old material, you have to play it.

Did you talk to anybody in these whos we're talking to Mick Jones, a foreigner the other day, you have to play five or six songs. Jimmy Buffett, he's got a certain day, tells them like, you know, not the Core eight or something. They have to play and you have put yourself in that, or you can start over in clubs trying to make it. Garth Brooks tried to do this. He even changed his name because Garth Books Garth Books is once again you're young or so. He

put on an album called Chris Kains. He wanted to make it as a rock star because really his show was rock Okay, he was rejected. People want wanted uh Garth and he went back to being Garth. But it was clear what he was doing. Yeah, you know, I'm

changing my identity. You're either in a hard to evolve. Yeah, I mean it is interesting like when I am touring, like I'm doing stuff that's not about relationships or dating, and and I sort of look out and I sail these bachelor parties and girls nights and I'm like, gos shit exactly gonna work? Yeah, yeah, you work so hard to get a certain uh fan base, then you get them. You gotta you know. I went to this doubleheader tour.

They played ballparks at this point, it's almost like fourteen years ago, and it was Brian Adams and Deaf Leopard and they would switch headliners each night. So we're in Minneapolis and Brian has to play during the day. If you're a rock act, that's death. Like the Rolling Stares, They're never gonna play during the day. Okay, he got on the audience wasn't reacting. I'm standing on the side

of the stage. He literally took the set list and tore it in half and looked at everybody in the band and then proceeded to win the people over, like do it as I say. And I said, that's a master at work. But it's the same thing. You know, you don't want to have a show. You want to have a show, said, I did everything I could. Oh well, yeah, I mean you've seen Bill Bird at that OPI and Anthony video where he they were booing him this open

Anthony crowd and then he turns it into killing. It's it's literally the greatest most uh uh, I mean, like comedy hero, Okay, say any other music questions. I just I mean I've I'm really fascinated by just all the ship and you know, well, thank you, but this is your It sounds like you came in with a list of questions. No, I'm just I'm fascinated by all this ship. It's just it's wild. Well, the point is committe, okay, I used to relate there are errors gay music as

a results of the Beatles, etcetera. That's where you went from truth, and that's FM radio comedy. Is you go for truth? It started really forget the comedy boom on cable, with the improv online whatever. The Simpsons had a more incisiul kind I'm try you know, they could they could look at it and pope fun in ways that no one else would. So you felt like only cart exactly, only cartoon characters to do that. So comedians that's one of the reasons why comedy is so happy. They're speaking

truth in a world of complete bullshit. It's funny because it's you know, everyone's like PCs culture is ruining comedy and he's making it better because now it's like you say something that's incendi or and it's like boom, it's like three times the reaction. How do you feel about people recording your shows? You use yonder but always yeah, always, not like at the comedy store and stuff. When I'm around, I also am not like saying stuff that's I'm not

I don't do that really. Um, it's more just annoying because if someone puts it up, you're like, if it gets a lot of you, I don't want to put it in in my special. It's just more like it's or just like you don't want anyone to hear before it's ready. How about Michael Richards, should he be uh gone forever? I mean he never really did stay exact exactly. It's more like let comics do it. It's you know, stand ups hard exactly, it's really hard and um, and also

you have to suck before you're good. That's right, and uh, you know it was that to me was someone who was not in control of That's a perfect answer, lack of training and being in that We're we've all been in situations like that before and it revealed sort of a lot about sort of his character the way that he handled it. Um. But I mean if he works

as an actor, that's none of my business. Okay, But in terms of when ne' on stage and you're trying out new material, it is you know, That's what people don't realize that you have two things going on at once. You're thinking and you're talking, but it's old materially you know by heart, but new materially. Do you ever get caught up we're saying, Okay, this is going to be

like a dangerous spot. Yeah, totally, but you sort of cushion it sandwich of between stuff that you know does work, so that you've got lifeline and you know something's about to kill if that you know gets a little shaky. Um, so you sort of pepper the new stuff in stuff that you're I'm trying to say, is something saying something that maybe you shouldn't say? I don't. Um, Yeah, like I was just doing this big thing on uh, like the Catholic church stuff and how nobody cares about the kids,

like all the meat too stuff. There was no markin, there's no marchins, there's no hashtags, like no one cares about the Yeah, there's no markin. There's no pr closet, tiny dick hat like there's nothing, and um it. It sometimes goes either either way and can get really awkward. But the bit is kind of about how awkward it gets when you bring that up, like why everyone's so embarrassed to address it or acknowledge of course that it's happening, the shame involved that it's like really one of the

most off limits subjects, um, the Catholic church stuff. So that's that's either either kills or is like very awkward. I was at the comedy store some week because we were talking about doing something with the guy Richard. What's you know the guy? He loud his name but you would know him, So what did he do? He was he was a comedian, but then he the guy wears Glassard Richard Fuck, but no, no, I know Richard Lewis. The only thing about Richard Lewis is you know Richard

Lewis funny. He's the same guy off the State. I think it's an act experience. I can't believe it. A comedian named Richard. It'll come back Richard. His last name are fuck it is, you know who it is. But that's not important. We're talking about doing something. So the comedy store on a weeknight. Okay, all of a sudden, like ten thirty at night, Richard Pryor comes on. Oh, this is a long time ago. Richard Pryor comes on. Okay, and this is not long after he burned himself up. Okay.

He lights a match and he starts, he starts telling rich your prior jokes, all the jokes that people said. When you touch the taboo, that's where the greatest laughs are. And that's the greatest insect because it makes people challenge their preconceptions. And it's also just comedy is surprised. It's the thing no one else will say that everyone's thinking, and the most surprising thing and the most artful way. So I think it's just more exciting than ever to

do stand up right now. I also don't need to say tranny, I don't need to say act like. I don't think let's stay. The recent Chappelle's special, We're not forget the political ship. Okay, you find it funny. Chappelle's a genius, and um, I don't have to agree with something to think it's funny. Now, I'm just talking in terms of sheer laughs. Did you watch the last special? Did you find it as funny laughing as previous work of his. Well, I think there's always you know, I

think there's it's there's always it's weird. It's like things are funny at certain times for different reasons all the time. You know, there was definitely some cringe moments, but I think that's okay. Now the cringe moment, I think, I think I can go like the comics. I understand. I'm not talking about cringe at all. I'm not talking about touching the third rail. Yeah, I am talking about Now that he's acclaimed as Chappelle, it gives him more room

to stretch out, and he is. You know, it comes out with the outfit that says the Sea on it and all this other stuff. I find that the stories are dragged out a little bit more so. The last are not as frequent as they used to be. That's all I'm saying the subject matter different subject. I think, you know, I think he's a genius, and you know, I I hope one day I'm able to change my style if I want to, you know, I think, I just think and maybe you know, as a comedian, I'm

not just consumer of comedy. I love watching him evolve. And I know what it takes bravery wise to let a joke drag out, you know, I know how. I know how easy it is for him to write a joke, so I know if he wanted a joke to be there, it would be there. So for me, whatever he's doing, I know that it's intentional, and I know that he's clearly built. Like I remember seeing him at Montreal. This is like ten years ago or something at some theater and he was I remember like between jokes, we were

all on the edge of our seat. Like the tension that he builds with silence is such a big part of what he does. And then when the joke hits, it's even bigger because you're like releasing. You know, he really stresses you out with his use of silence, and I think a really exciting it's almost like performance art um and uh, it adds an intensity that a lot of you know, I'm I'm very like, I'm gonna make you laugh every twenty seconds because I don't lose you

and I don't. I'm insecure, and I know my jokes permitted. I got, you know, And I think because we know he's such a joke writer. When there's not a joke there, we know there's I believe there's like well staying with you know, George Carlin famously changed his act. So Carlin prior to what degree are they seen as because Bill Cosby has been torn down for what you know, let's not even go there. But are they forgotten amongst the

comedy world or giants? No, not in the slightest. I mean, there was just a Carlin clip going around the other day all over social media about like PC culture on Larry King. I believe, um, you know, his bits are still you know, very much I think relevant in the

comedy community. But the comedy community they still respect him. Yes, yes, Like when said like and I think that the bar for a great special, Like I remember, um, comedy comedian I Revere called me and was like, yeah, that felt like that jokes like a Carlin joke, Like that's sort of the gold standard. Exactly, it's the gold standard. And

that's I think when you're writing. I mean, at least for me as a comedian, I'm like, oh, George Carlin right about now, like you we it's always in the back of my mind, so you know, putting my foot in my mouth one more of the time, uh, Billy Uh. Bill Maherr was on Howard recently, within the last three months whatever, So that's why Howard did Bill maher last week, and Howard asked, who do you think of the great comedians out there? Okay? And Bill maher said he thought

he was the best. Let's not even go there. Okay, the question obviously takes a certain amount of huts, but to say you're the best. But he had gone on that's certain number of his king He was dead fucking serious. But he had said earlier in the interview that some of his jokes are written by other people. What's your viewpoint on that? Look, I I that's not the requirement to write your own jokes, you know. For I used to write jokes for other comics. That's really how I started.

So I paid my bills, so good for those comics that are getting that money. UM, I don't know. I don't have a judgment around it. That is what it is. It's not what I would personally do and do. Okay, So when you write, okay, do you sit down with a pad of paper or do you take a shower and something comes computer? Writing every premise, everything I can think of. They don't have to be jokes, yet go for a hike writing them in my phone. I have pages and pages and pages and not funny things that

I called down, start building, start highlighting, start Okay. So there's never writer's block. You can sit in front of the computer. You always have something. I mean, there's definitely, like you know, sitting around calling people, running it by people, brainstorming. But I make myself write everything down that's not funny and then figure out why it's funny. Okay. We could go on for good, but I don't want to hold you.

I have to go sleep. Exactly. You've been wonderful, You've been very open, Whitney, Thank you so much for doing the pod. Thank you. I'm nervous by Kendall Astro, who was on this podcast, was like I did his podcast and then all these industry insiders hurt it and it's a very big podcast. That's not how she sounds. But no, but I met Kendall the reason she's I met Kendall Summit series, which is a whole another thing now, but this is like six years ago. They have a place

in you Smartest Ship. And she was the first person who told me she was going to do a snapchat story. That's what really wrung. Mendell is one of my favorite people that I've ever worked with. And it's been brief and she goes, here's what's working, Here's what's not working. She does, you need to get the new iPhone. You cannot be posting on a freaking iPhone five like she noticed, because I have, because I noticed. She's like, you gotta

hashtet like. She is so savvy and smart and clear and direct and not you know, I I really want to work with people who don't walk on egg shells around my feelings. She will give me feedback. Um, she is so solution results oriented. I just she's she's one of the good ones for those people don't know. She's a social media agent and more at U t A in any event, and she was on the podcast. Absolutely you can look her up in the back story. He's going to handle the social media for this one, i'd

imagine to make sure you guys listening. Okay, Whitney, thanks so much, Thank you. Next time spot left set