Waddy Wachtel

your parents do for a living. My dad was in the shoe business, ladies shoes. My mom was a mom who unfortunately died when I was pretty young. But really, how how young were you? Six years old? Okay, your father is in what level of the retail? So he owns like a story works in a store, and his brother owned a shoe store. Ye owned one and uh and Jackson Heights. There's one of the creepy things I remember as a kid walking on the main street near

where I lived. We going every store, and I went into the shoe store when I wasn't actually buying something. Freaked me out. It's like I only went to the story when they had stride rights exactly, which was kids shooes if I wanted to buy something. So your father on the story your mother died at age six. Did your father get remarried? He yeah, he did once unsuccessfully when I was about sixteen, and then um, then again when I when I first moved to l A right

what I was twenty years old. He married a wonderful woman and they were together until he passed. Okay, and how many kids in your family? Just my brother and myself and your brother's Jimmy. Yeah, famous art designer, very famous art Okay, who's older? Jimmy is older. Jimmy's older. So to what degree were you influenced by him? Well, we were to answer that. I don't know. Um, that's

a hard one to answer. I've never been asked that question. Well, he taught me a lot about He had a big jazz record collection, and we were both into the heavy heavy, into the rock and roll records, do wop stuff. And he used to bring me to Uh there was a DJ in New York called Jocko. I don't know if you remember the Jocko radio show, and he's my brother. Brought me with him into the city one day, just go to a show, one of those rock and roll shows,

which I've never seen before. So my brother was was musically influential actually in my life, even though I was. I saw a guitar on television before my mom died, and it just flipped me out. And I looked at my mother and when I was five years old, and I said, what is that? What's that guy doing? And she said, I said, what is he holding? What is that thing? She says, that's a guitar. And I went, Okay, that's what I want. She just what, what do you

mean that's what you want? You're five years old? And I said, that's what I want to do. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna play the guitar. And I was already attracted to music. I was always singing tunes and learning, learning songs and imitating singers stuff like that. But once once I saw that guitar on television, it blew me away. So that was it. From Okay, how old do you act when you when you actually got a guitar? Nine, Okay, let's go back. Your brother is

how much older than you are? Three and a half years older than and so your father is essentially a single parent. Yeah, and he's working all the time, so you basically a free reign. I had free reign, and that was all working well until I wound up getting tonsillitis and realized and then I was home for you know, almost two weeks and realized, you know, this is hipper

than going to school. I like this better. So I became quite a serious truant from then on, really, and actually wound up being the worst truant on record in New York City at one point. Okay, I have to asked, how much school did you miss? Well? I I didn't miss enough to where I was never set back a grade, you know. But as it went on and on, eventually I had to go to I don't know if you remember a place in New York, a school for young professionals.

It was called Quintano's. I don't know that you know it was. It was right near Carnegie Hall. And someone said to me, you know, you should try Quintano's because you know, you're never in school and you're never going to graduate, and probably right, so I went. I talked my father into letting me go there, and and it was a great The first day I was there. I met Mary from the Shangra laws was and sal Mineo

had gone there. Patty Duke could go on to this place, and uh so I went there and wound up would up being truan from there too, because at that point my band that I had, we wound up going to Newport, RhoD Island. We got an offer. We were playing in the village when and a guy heard his place and would you like to go to Newport, Ohode Island. Went wow, yeah, sure, let's go. So we went up there and loved it,

and we wound up staying up there. We'd go for a weekend that would stretch it into it like a three day week, four day weekend today, and I'll be gonna be up here for the week. You know. It's like what it's about at school. Don't worry, I'll be fine. And so I came back down and eventually did graduate high school. Okay, so your father's single parent, any religious background, any of that Jewish? Did you get up bar mitzvah? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, call that my first professional gig really,

because you know, you got paid. You know, I got up there saying my ass off and okay, so Jewish background. In addition to the bar Mitza usually summer camp. Did you go to summer and so? Were you a performer at summer camp? Somewhat? Yeah? Now? And then yeah yeah. I was always a ham you know what I mean. So I would do these embarrassing parts and plays and things like that, you know, stuff like that, and then then when the guitar came along, then I would force

that down everybody's throat. Okay, so you're nine when you get your first guitar, yeah, and how does that happen? Well? I just kept bugging my father about it, you know, since that time, you know, before my mom died. I kept saying guitar, guitar, and he kept saying no, no, And finally, by nine years old, he gave in and brought me this little Camiko. It was called this little cry Me a little guitar. But this was a folk guitar, acoustic guitar, it was. It was acoustic guitar, but it

wasn't a folk guitar. It wasn't a round hole guitar. It had f holes and stuff. I didn't know what a folk guitar was. I never Okay, well, all I remember is back in the days of the Hootings, before the Beatles, you'd get these folk guitars. They would cross like thirty dollars with really wide necks and nylon strings. Yeah right, right, So what was your mine was? No, mine was steel string and it was meant for guitar players.

There wasn't a folk guitar. Like I said, I never even knew what a folk guitar was until I basically moved to l a and everyone said, you gotta get an acoustic guitaro. What what's that? You know? I had Gibson's. I had f hold jazz guitars. What they call him, there's a term for it, but you know, you know, not a folk guitar, right, okay, So yeah, that's what you grew up in New York. You call him folk guitar, right, okay. So you had this guitar, did you take lessons? Yeah? Yeah.

He got me of the guitar, and then he got a teacher for me, a great guy named Gene Dale who lived in the Bronx would come to our house once a week. And the first day he came, I was holding it the way I would because I'm left handed, so I'm holding it like this, and he goes, all right, first of all, it goes like this, but but I'm left handed. He goes, not anymore, You're gonna play it

this way. Fine. So that happened, and then I started taking my lessons, and shortly after we started, he realized that my ear was really good, you know, very I could learn stuff very quickly by ear. And he said, you're not reading. I said, well, I am reading, but once I get through a piece, I learned it, so, you know, so I said, why don't you start? If you would, why don't you record a song for we had a tape recorder. I said, well, you leave me some songs to learn. So he'd give me like Lulla

by a Birdland or September in the Rain. He'd play it and I could listen to it and learn it that way, aside from reading the music as well. So you know, I studied with him for several years. That went on for a while, and i've about when I was fourteen fifteen kind of lost interest in it for a little while. And that's when Dad get married. Uh, and we moved to a place called Jamaica Estates if to this joint and it was it just didn't work. This,

this marriage was not meant to be. And what's it like being the son of a guy who gets remarried and it's not gonna work. I mean, what do you thinking? And where does his leave you? Well, you know, it was all kind of bizarre to me, But unfortunately I was so involved in music that it didn't matter to me, you know. And and again when you brought up camp, Jimmy and I would go to campage summer because in New York was so horribly hot, and my dad's dream was to make sure the boys had a good time

for the summer. So away we go. And and I remember when we left Jackson Heights and when Harry, my dad came up to get us, we drove to well, we went to Jamaica, excuse me. We we then moved to Jamaica States. Then when we left that summer we came back. We drove right to Forest Hills over it was where was the camp up state New York? At around x Okay, So he brings you back, you leave, find all your friends and everything in your new house. Yeah,

I didn't have the many friends anyway. You know, you didn't have any friends because your personality or so deep into the music. Yeah, both, you know, and and we in Jamaica. I didn't know anybody there, and we weren't there that long. So I was commuting every day into I think I was still going to Newtown High School maybe or something on it. It's all a little vague at this point, but but nonetheless we moved to Forest

Hills and then went started going to Forest Hills High School. Okay, So going back to the originally Teachered dell Um, you learned how to read music. Do you still read music to this day? So if you play a session and someone lays it out, you can read right off the page. I'm not a great reader at all. I'm I'm okay at it. Uh, Guys that I work with I can read anything. They're incredible at it because of my ear. I started just taking that road with it. So if

I hear something once, I learn it. But yeah, I can still read. Okay. So then when you're taking lessons, what he's teaching you, scales, chords what both of those plus we were working out of there's a course called the mel Bay. Of course I had a bell Bay berl right. Well, so I went through all those books I know I have stopped at the first right, Yeah, well I went through one through nine. Well that's why I'm not guitarist. And and then he was teaching me

Bach piano etudes. We would play, you know, two part inventions. They're cold, so I would read the top line, he would play the bottom line. It was like the two hands of a piano and it was great. It was really cool. But that was one of the things when he said you're not reading. I went, hey, man, I am reading. I said, you want me to play your part. I know both parts, I said, I get through it and I learned it, so, you know, halfway during the week, I said, oh, well, I might as well learn his

part too. So he has switched parts of me. I'll play yours too. He goes out, man, and he realized that my ear was gonna be the ruler of my Look. The big issue when you take guitar lessons is whether you or any music lessons is whether you practice or not. Yeah, did you practice? I practiced. I went through my lessons. You know I didn't. I didn't sit there and grind

it out, grind it out, grind it out. I practiced more now as i've been trying to learn a certain type of a playing but n Hawaiian slack key guitar it's called and it's just this beautiful finger picking stuff that that the Hawaiians learned. How much work do you put into that today? Anywhere from an hour a day, a couple of hours a day, or you know. I'm constantly listening to it China, because I grew up again without a folk guitar, you know, so I grew up with a pick in my hand. I was never a

finger picker. And I started listening when I realized I'm Beatle Records. These guys are the isn't their fingers a little bit? I gotta try to figure that out. But I never really had to do it much until working with Stevie Nicks and the band that she brought me back into. Um, there was someone else when we do Landslide, someone else would play Landslide, but then they they left the band, so suddenly you were Mr land Slide And

I went, um, landslide? How does that go? Because Stevie said to me, do you know how to play landslide? And of course I'm going, yeah, sure, of course, how do you play landslide? You know, how do you play Landslide? I said to my friend Brett Tuggle, who was still in the band, and he would normally play it, How do you play lands side as well? There's a lot to it? And he started to play the song from me, Oh yeah that song? Yeah, I know that song. I

didn't know it, you know. So it took a while and I how long did it take you to do it well? To do it? Well? It's I don't know, a couple of months of getting my fingers to do it correctly. And the first time I did it was Stevie. We went away to do these radio spots. She said to me, you know landslide, right? I went yeah, sure, and she goes, well, I gotta go do these radio spots. You want to do it with me? I went, yeah,

I'd love to. So we went up to northern California and do these eight am radio bits and play Landslide and I was butchering it, and finally Stevie said to me. We went to dinner that night, she goes, you know what, I gotta tell you that was the absolute worst landslide I've ever in my life. And yeah, I totally agree. I'm sorry and uh. And then it came time to where Brett Tuggle was out of the band and I

hadn't learned it. So I sat in my house and just practiced when and went on for a while, and my wife had walked by the room and she's going, that was a good landslide today, and I'm gonna thanks, honey, you know. And I was really nervous about it. And we got down to rehearsal and we're going through the show and all of a sudden, it's time for landslide and I'm sweating and it doesn't really worried. The last thing she ever said to me was that was the

worst thing I've ever heard. So we started, we play it. She sings it all the way through. She looks at me, she goes, it's beautiful, all right, my girl. Okay, So when you're playing the guitar and you're a teenager, uh, you know, your teacher is bringing out all this classical stuff, but some you know, mel stuff, But don't you want to play the stuff that's on the radio. Well again, yeah, I did. Well. One of the thing that made me realize I had this ear was I heard tequila, you know,

by the Champs you know. And as he's teaching me, there's a thing called a one major chord. And I played the one major chord and then I just because I don't know what was one major chord, Well, it just means it's just a form of a chord, you know, if you know, like a bar chord. Yeah, you bar your bar with the first finger and you and you place these three friends and that's your basic one major chord.

So so I was on the fifth fret, say fifth fret, and then I just accidentally went to the third fret and played the same chord and I heard that one and that one. I went, hey, wait a minute, that's that song, Tequila, that's what it is. So that and I went, alright, I'm playing that song, man, this is great,

you know. So I from that and then I heard Rebel Rouser Dwayne Eddie, and I started realizing, oh, I can figure these things out, you know, And so one after the other I started just learning to So it's like that. And we you were a record collector, Well, like I said about my brother, my brother had a we we were both had a bunch of rock and roll records, for sure, But this is pre beatles. You know we had, you know, Elvis. I was playing guitar

before Elvis came out. You know, when I first started playing guitar, out came Blue Swede Shoes by Carl Perkins, you know, and then then Elvis happened. Okay, since I can look it up on the internet, your how well, what year were you born? Seven? So you were literally playing before Elvis became big. Yeah, so in fifty seven, I think when Elvis came out, I was already had a guitar in my hand for a year, you know.

But uh, but aside from the rock and roll records, Jimmy had an enormous jazz collection, and and I loved that too. So I would sit home and just put on a record and learn it, and put on another record and learn let's listen to the stuff. And then there was a guy named Mickey Baker, if you remember Mickey and Sylvia love Change, was a guitar player. He wrote a book about how to improvise, how to play, how to impvise. I'm dying to learn how to do that. And so the full first part of the book was

all about chords and this and that. The second second part is about improvisation. And this disclaimer saying, well, nobody can teach you how to improvise, went, well, what the fund did I buy this book for? Then? And but in that page it's said, what I suggest you do is learn every solo you like. Listen to horn players, listen to jazz players, listen to guys, any solo you like, learn it and learn everything you like, and eventually you'll start generating your own stuff. So that was it for me.

I just sat home, and that's what you know, reinforce the truancy. I just had a job to do, now, you know. So I would sit there and put on Miles Davis and Lou Donaldson or you know, Donald Bird or anybody and just listen to the solos. Fine one I like learn it, Find another one I like learn it. There was Johnny smith Le's good, great jazz guitar players to to emulate. So I did a lot of So when you're when you're doing this is the dream to be a professional musician, you know, I did it was

just to learn. It was just to learn. I knew this was all I was gonna do. You know, I didn't even know that you could do it as a profession. Really, you know, it didn't even that didn't matter to me. I was just driven to to learn music on this instrument, and and then singing, and then the vocals and and you know, do wop stuff started mattering more and more and more. But my basis was a guitar. And like I said to my father, he'd say, you know, you should do that as a hobby. I'm going this is

it for me. This is this is my hobby, and this is gonna be all I do. I can't you know what am I gonna do? Be it? Because you should be a doctor. I don't think so, you know diff I want to play guitar, you know. Okay, So how old were you when you form your first band? I was about fourteen or fifteen when a guy that I was going to school and said, Bobby walked, all right, yeah, he goes, you play guitar, right, yeah, he goes, I've got a little band. You know you want to work. Yeah,

that's a great idea. I never thought of doing that, sure, And it was just there wasn't even a base in the band. It was just accordion, drums, trumpet, and me. And eventually we got the accordion out of there. And we got a vibe player, but still no base and uh, but we did society gigs, you know, weddings and bar mitz fills and dances and things like that and who's sang. No, it was instrumentals. It was all instrumental. And what kind

of money were you making? Twenty bucks a night? Well, twenty bucks a night when you're like fourteen a lot of money. Absolutely, yeah, would you spend the money on? We'd go we we would uh take the subway into New York and you know, go to the arcades and just you know, waste the money. You know, you can buy a hot dog her two and throw it into ski ball or whatever. You know. That's what I remember. The first thing. I'm going to my friends into the city.

When you're fourteen, that's what you do, go to the arcade, get a slice. Okay, but you still playing that same guitar. No. The great thing was the second year, you know, nine years old, he gave me this. My dad gave me that Comico guitar. At ten years old, he bought me. It's beautiful Gibson L seven. It's called it's a single cutaway jazz guitar. Just gorgeous. So I was in heaven. I couldn't believe it. And shortly after that I got an amp they'll pick up for the guitar, and that's

what I was playing the band. I had my little tiny Fender amp and my big fat Gibson jazz guitar, and that's what I was playing. And then I went at summer camp. This guy had a less pull and I just had a less summer. Yeah, I was. And I saw this black just like Niel you was like black, three pick up bigs beyond it? What's that? Man? That's great? I gotta And this guy couldn't play at all. I mean I was. You know, I've been playing with two years already, so I can really, you know, play better

than him. He was a lovely guy. Um. But so when I came back from campus summer, that's all I wanted was less pool, less pool, less pool, and my dad's gonna no, and I can't unafford it. A shoe store going here. My grandmother, who was my mom's mother, she she had a real attitude. This woman. I think I got a lot of her in me and she my dad grew up with a friend of his name Harry Waxman, who was very turned out to be a very wealthy builder in New York, built all these communities

and stuff like that. Always said he'd take care of my father blah blah blah. And my grandmother always had this thing. And she goes, why don't you you know, Bobby, you can't your dad can't afford this to guitar, and you keep talking about so why don't you write to your nasty uncle, Harry bunch of right to him and ask him to get it for you. We're going to really do you think? She goes, yeah, I write him

a letter. He's got tons of money. Okay, So I wrote this letter and that three or four days later. It must have been longer than that, but not much longer. My dad calls me at home after school. He goes, get over here. That means come to the shoes get over here. Now. What just get over here right now? Okay? What what did I do? And I go to the store. He sees he get into the there's in the shoes store.

There's that they called the die room, in the back room where they die the shoes and they you know, change things. Get in the die room, alright, alright, take it easy. What what? Just get in there? All right? He comes up to me and he's I'm sitting there. He goes, did you write to your uncle Harry? Um? Well, uh yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, you wrote to your uncle Harry behind my back and asked him to get you a guitar. He says, what is the matter with you?

What kind of manners do you have? Who do you think? And while he's yelling at me, I'm looking around, you know, I'm trying to avoid his eyes. So I'm looking around this little room, and in the corner of the room I see the head of a guitar case and all of a sudden, it wait a minute, what's going on here? And he's yelling at me, but he's starting to smile at it. What's going on here? What is that? Because you better go look at that? So I opened it up.

Then it's this less pool. Uh, not the one I wanted. Unfortunately, however there was it was They called it a TV model. Let's Paul yellow. Ah, what what was the difference between this one and the one you wanted? Well? I saw this black, nasty looking one, you know, the three pickups with the bigs beyond it. One cut away just like Neil Young's right, I understand, but what was I understand what that is? I didn't know there was this different Well, yeah,

there's a lot of this. One was what they called the TV model, and it was it had two cutaways. It was a lighter guitar. It wasn't as heavy duty a job, had less pickups on it, but there it was. It was my solid body guitar. So I was in heaven, you know, and uh so I loved it. So I showed up to my society band gig with this thing or what what's that? This only new guitar. Man, It's great, Okay. So then you're playing the society gigs at the time,

in the early sixties or late late thees. Rock and roll early sixties is pop tracks and folk and so before before the Beatles, you play in the science society gig and society being and what else jazz gigs, you know, jazz jazz tunes and uh standards, That's that's what it was. That's what we did for a living. You know. We played almost every weekend with this little band, the Nocturns, and you know, you know, that was it. You know, had they call a fake book. You know what a

fake bootree explained to my audience. A fake book is this gigantic, loose leaf book that has every every standard ever written in it. And uh, it's what you do when you're playing society gigs, when you're playing what they call casuals or like weddings and bar missas. You have this enormous book and someone go go to go to to thirty, go to page two thirty and it's you know, sat and Doll go to Santiago, to September the rain,

you know it a million songs in it. So we that's what we did with you know everything I remember the fake book was away. It gave you the chords and the lead without buying the real sheet music, right, yeah, that's right. Yeah. It was a collect yeah it was. It was a bogus collection these tunes instead of having to go going on the internet, like yeah, we're going to the sheet music store, right, we're bruying five thousand songs, right, and they were like three dollars a piece. There was

expensive as an album. Yeah. Yeah. So you're playing in the society gig and that happens all the way to the Beatles. Yeah, pretty much so yeah, and uh, we were worn for that, and Beach Boys and Beatles kind of happened around the same time earlier, earlier, so I was really taken by that. And and again at summer camp, I met some guys there who also loved music and saying.

So we started every night we'd go down. We were waiters in this camp at that at that age, and we went to this camp long enough, you graduated to that level waiters, junior counselors, the whole thing, right, So we after clean up, after the dinner meal, we'd go down to the baseball diamond and sing do op tunes, you know we do remember then by the earls or you know, I can't even think of any titles right now,

but do optunits and just acapella stuff. And really got into that, and then Beach Boys songs and and then Beatles happened. But and then I'd come back and I'd still be with the Society band. But at that point we had put together with my friends who lived in New Chelle, this other band playing surfing music, you know, surfing instrumentals, people from Nero. Well, I met him in camp, and uh, so I'd go up to there and we'd

practice our surfing tunes. We started doing a lot. It was all instrumental still, and we started adding some beach boy vocals and stuff. But then then Beatles happened and everything a little bit slower. The beach. Which are you with the band with the friends from New Rochelle? Are you playing gigs with them? We started to do some gigs up up in New England. Yeah, okay, No England and Westchester. So how do you become aware of the Beatles?

The way? The same way we all did at Sullivan Show. Okay, and you're watching on Sunday night and you're thinking, what I'm My mind is in a million pieces on the floor in front of me. I've never seen anything like this, you know, we all we went through Elvis and Everly's. Everly's was like the most incredible thing. I said, well, it's better than Elvis, two of them and the best looking things, the best looking guys I've ever seen, with

these enormous guitars. So it was Everly's Everly's and all of a sudden there's Beetles with their haircuts, in their hip suits, and there's playing these tunes. It was all over. Man, that was it, and from then on the Society Band started doing Beatles songs. Really oh yeah, absolutely, yeah. You're still without a base, without a bad yeah, without a base, still no base. So the Society Band is doing Beatles.

But to what degree to the Beatles energize you would say, wow, you know, I want to go in this direction or anything like that. Completely they at that point. And what I have to say. When this happened, we were now living in Forest Hills. We had left in Jamaica. It was my brother and myself and my dad living in this apartment building and Queens and Forest Hills. So Beatles have come out. It's all you can think about. And again,

I'm learning every tune, you know. I'm at home listening to every every song and every album, learning every song. And then one day I'm hearing we in this place. There was a building here, a big awning here, and another building here. This is in Forest Hills on Austin Street. And I went out one day, left left my place, cutting school, of course, and I heard guitar playing coming out of one of the apartments. What the hell, what's that? So it was in the other building. So I went

into the other building and went from Florida floor. Uh, walking down each hallway until I found the place where it was coming out of. Knocked on the door. Big big guy answers that this is the door. Have you set cat, get a suit and tie on? Ties open? But I went, are you uh you playing guitar in here? He goes, yeah, oh yeah. I said, well, my name is Bobby walked tell and uh, I can help you. You need help. And because I can hear what he was doing, I said, you need help, but I can

help you. Man, I play guitar. Because yeah, what's your name? He says? Leslie Weinstein? Okay, cool. So Leslie and I became brothers and we all lived in the same building, you know. So he knew my dad, I knew his mom and his dad and his brother, and he knew jim my brother Jimmy very well. And and uh I taught Leslie how to play. And for those people don't know, that's Leslie West. Yeah. I was gonna say. He became all of a sudden, I on the radio one day

here Mississippi Queen by this guy, Leslie West. Run wait a minute, and Leslie, this this all relates back to the guitar story. Just go on a second. Why is he dressed up with a suit Because Leslie worked at the jewelry Exchange, you know, because I said, how come you all dressed up? Exactly he said, I worked. I worked at the diamond Exchange. You know. We'll take a quick break and come back with more of my conversation with guitar virtuoso Wadi Wachtell, recorded live at the tune

In Studios in Venice, California. It's so great having musicians here on the podcast. I'm sure you enjoyed Shirley Manson of Garbage and my interview with Moby at the l A Times Festival of Books. This week, Wadi wak Tells old some great stories about working in the studio with Linda ron Staton the Everly Brothers. Whether you come for the music protect business or otherwise, be the first year next week's episode of the podcast by subscribing I'm tune

in Apple Podcast or your podcast player of choice. While you're there, please be sure to rate and review. Okay, let's get back to my conversation with Wady Wachtell. Okay, so you were telling the story, so I had my still had my less poll, but I wanted beatle guitars. Now you know a country gentlemen. I wanted a Rickenbacker.

So I got the Rickenbacker somehow, I don't remember even how, stealing money from my father probably and soul Leslie gave Leslie my less pole and he was most have bought it, but I don't think we ever exchanged any money on it. And that was the guitar when you first saw Leslie West play, and that was my guitar. He was playing, you know, the this yellow little double cutaway in that pool. I was a huge fan of the first album, which

was called Mountain with Leslie West. It was the second album had the Mississippi Queen had and it had baby I'm Down. It was on some Columbia Pictures label. I went to see them at the Fillmore in the fall sixty and I was big Mountain fan. So okay, then we put his first Bandity of the Vagrants was Leslie's first band, and it was Larry, his brother Larry a great singer in Peter Sabatino, another guy and Jerry I just forgot his name. And they needed a drummer, so

they didn't have a drummer yet. I said when I play a little drums. So I played drums until we found their drummer, Roger So and we played the scene in the in the city, we played some gigs, you know as the Vagrants, you know, with me on drums was okay, But he's got a band and he's starting down the road. What are you doing? Well at that point, I was very very uh annoyed that, you know, Leslie's

got a gig and I can't. I can't even walk into Atlantic Record, you know, I can't get arrested, you know, uh musically and so well, like I said, I had put bands together in Newport. I had had this band from New York and I went This was all now late sixties, and the draft board was yelling for me. You know, it was time to go be drafted and I wasn't about to go in the army. So um, we had to move. We had to get out of there. I kept missing physicals and so we moved to Connecticut

to go to college to get a deferment. With this. I had a band that my my same band from New York, the Guy No No, No, this was a band, this actually the Society band broke up. I'm getting out of context here. And when I was in high school, I met some other guys I wanted to put together a different band, and I didn't want to keep going on New Achelle. So I met a guy who was a guitar player, convinced him he should be the bass player.

We met and we heard a great drummer who was in some other band, and we convinced him to come play with us. And we found a friend who played Oregon. So we had this little four piece band, and that's where we went to Newport with originally. And that band lasted up until we got to Connecticut avoiding the draft, and all of a sudden, one day, they all just quit me. They all just said, we're out of this, We're leaving, We're done. We're done because we don't want

to play music anymore. Well they don't want Yeah, they don't want to They don't want to be where they are. One of them was in love with a girl we had met along the way. He wanted to go be with her, play with her. Um My friend, my lifelong bass player friend, decided he'd had enough. I wanted to quit, and so I was just stuck and moved back to New York for a while. Eventually put another band together with some people I knew from Newport that we had met.

I took my bass player with me again and we managed to put another band together and went back up to Newport and played up there for a while. How did you get the gigs in Newport? Well, like I said, we were playing at a place in the city and this man was at the show. He just happened to be in this club, the Eighth Wonder. If you remember the club on on Eighth Street, and I don't remember, we had scene. Well, this is the Hellers, Trudy Heller, Joel Heller. We had a club called the Eighth Wonder.

So we were playing there and this guy came up to me and said, Hi, my name is Paul Schnittman actually, and I own a club up in Newport, Rhode Island. Would you guys like to come up there and play. I think you guys are really good. We'd love to have you up there. Wow. Okay, So then that started the whole Newport faction, which led to that band going to Connecticut breaking up, and eventually wound up back in Newport with pieces of other band that I had met

up there, and we were. And the thing about Newport, this is where somebody said to me one day, have you heard the cow Sills? And I went, what's a cow Sill? What kind of word is that? And they said, that's that's this group. That's their name. So well, that's their name, you know, that's the last name of Cow's Lill. No, I've not heard them. What are you talking about? This is these four boys. They're really really good, really so I went over to this place where they were playing,

and they were incredible. There was the four only just the four of them, Billy, Bobby Barry, and John Barry and John must have been like twelve and thirteen years old at the most, and and they were doing the best beatles you've ever heard. That's what they did. They just did beatles songs basically, and they sounded incredible and and I loved And then I didn't realize though, when I'd go back to this club. I worked in Dorian's

usually once or twice a weekend. This drunk guy would come in, this alcoholic bastard would come in and be annoying and be loud and be obnoxious, and I'd have him thrown out. And finally the club owner one night said to me, you know, Watty, that's a that's Bud counsel what so, yeah, that's their father. You gotta be kidding me, man, that's their father. So and he would he'd still come in and come in. And he said to me one night he wanted to want to manage me.

And I'm gonna get serious, Are you kidding me? I can't stand being around you. You know, you're a fucking monster. You're drunk all the time. Because well, my kids are gonna make it. Well, good luck to them with you on board. And he goes, we're gonna get it together. I said, oh yeah, well when you get a million dollars together, ask me, then okay, it's okay. And so we went from playing in Newport wound up going up to Vermont. You know, we got an offer to come

to this club in Vermont. Well, you know, since I went to college Vermont, but a lot of time in Vermont. We're in Vermont sugar Bush, Okay, you know with a bluetooth that's exactly right, with the big bluetooth hanging for the ceiling, the bluetooth, that's the club. That was it. So you went and played those so we went played up there and then they asked us come back for like the whole ski season, so we did. Which did you ski at all? I don't know. No, no, no, no,

Warren Vermont exactly. That's so we're up there and we were you know, we're running out of options now. I mean, you know, the idea was to get a record deal, and that didn't wasn't happening, and there was a DJ and Providence who was trying to help us, and that fell through. And I'm up there going, man, this is like the end of the road. We're up here and you're not gonna be discovered at the winter in Vermont fifty below. I don't think we're gonna you know, Clive

Davids Saint coming here again. And all of a sudden I got a phone call from the guy that used to run the club I played in, David Ray, What do you called me? What New England accent? Hey? What it's Dave? Hey man? What are you doing? He goes, what are you? I'm working for Bud now and what you gotta be kidding me? He goes, what he's got money now? He says, the kids are making it. He's got a serious deal with the Dairy Association. And he's so. He goes, hold on, I'm gonna put him on the phone.

How are you doing? He said, I'm okay, Bud. He goes, yeah. He says, we're coming up to see you, but you are He goes, yeah, we're coming up tomorrow to see you. Okay, fine, great blizzard. They drive up, pure fucking blizzard. Took him forever to get there. And at this what this band is now called. It was used to be called the Orphans, now it's called Twice Nicely, it's a different arrange as a girl, really talented girl who we moved out here

together with that band. But so there's Budd and David Ray sitting at this club at the Bluetooth watching the band. And I get done with the set. He goes, band sounds good, wady, band sounds good. I said, yeah, good, thanks. He goes, So, I got the million dollars. Now you want to come with me? Absolutely, I'm ready. It's fine. We're moving into New York with us. You know, we got this apartment in New York. We got rooms all over the place. You guys can live downstairs. Okay, great.

So at that point we moved back to the city, living with the councils at that point, up and down. You know, one of the kids is always hanging out with us. I'm always hanging out with Billy Counsel, the oldest one. And eventually Bud said, I'm moving my operation to Los Angeles. Do you want to go? Definitely? I said I can't. And this relates back to you know, Leslie has got a career goal, right, I can't get a session. I can't No one wants to hear me play.

So yes, please, man, I want to go to Los Angeles. So we moved out with we drove out with our manager Dave, and came out here. What year was? This is okay, but let's go back. We were talking just before we started that you went into Haven College for a semester. Yeah, when was that? Well that was sixty seven, I guess. So how did you get out of the draft? I got out of the draft by Finally I told Bud,

I said, look, I have this problem. The Jeff board is on my tail because I've missed five six physicals already, and uh, the last letter I got said you're going to Vietnam. You don't even need to take your physical, just show just show up at Fort Fort Washington, Brooklyn, and you were going to go right from there to Vietnam. And so Bud and bless his heart and his the one good thing he ever did for anybody probably was he goes, We're gonna fix this for you, and I

want to put you in touch with somebody. And he put me in touch with Herbie Cohen. Remember who Herbie? His brother was a publisher as a manager of Frank Zappa. Herbie was, Yeah, So I meet her one day in New York at the Carnegie I think it was, and I was sitting He goes, so Bud told me you've got a problem with the with the army and stuff, and you got a physical coming up. Point. Yeah, I do. So he says, well, I'm gonna help you. He says.

First of all, you gotta believe something. What's that? He goes, they don't want you? What because they don't want people like you. You're not army material. They can't do anything with someone like you. You'll be a waste of their time. You won't bend to what they want. They don't need you. You got to believe that. You really got to believe it. Otherwise you're not going to get out of this. Okay, I believe it. I believe it. And so he told me, he said, well, when's your physical I said it's two

and a half weeks or somebody three weeks. He was all right, well, go, what is your father think about this? I said, my father wants me to go in the army. He's so really well, he was just disheartened with my whole truant life, you know, the bad thing. And you know he didn't want to see me go to the front line or anything. But your army would street you, right. So ah, he said, well, listen, I think you should tell your father you're not going in and tell him

he's going to help you. Because I want your father to drag you into that physical. I want you to have your father hand you over to the to the sergeant. I want them to see that you don't want to be there, and I want them that your father wants you in there. And this is all part of what you're gonna do this Lucky. He says, you look like a nervous guy, man, so just play that up. Be nervous, be really nervous. He says, don't, don't do anything they

want you to do. Don't answer questions on the physical. Don't ah, don't take the physical. Refused to take the physical. Tell them you can't undress in front of other people. You're too shy, you're too scared. Okay, fine, all right, yeah I can I can handle this, Okay. So so I took his advice and I just played it up from there, and I started. I didn't shower for a couple of weeks. I didn't shave till the day before. I didn't wash my hair, didn't do anything. I just

I didn't eat. I just ate like fruit fruit. So I weighed nothing by the time. By the time that physical came, it wasn't sleeping. I was drinking coffee all night the only time I drank coffee. Stayed awake for days and days. I looked ridiculous. And I shaved that without water the day before, and so I was cunsoled over me and I prepped, I really prepped for it, and played it up and got there, and I was did your father drag you? And I made my father dragged me. And I said, not only are you gonna

help me? Not only am I not going in the army you're gonna help me because what No, I'm not. I said, yes you are. You're gonna drag me in there because I'm not gonna be any part of this, and yes you are. So he did. He got on board and he brought me in, and so I kept hearing Herbie's voice. You know, don't don't answer the questions on the on the on the paper, on the written part. So they'd hand me the thing and I'd sit there and I would just take the pencil and just go

break the point of it. And then I think I would come around and see I haven't written anything. I went, well, you know, I broke it depends only give me another one break it. So I had hardly wrote anything on this. And then the physical part came and I just played it up, played it up. And when he said the thing about refused to take your clothes off, that was all well and good in theory, but there was nobody

to say it too. There was There was nobody there except some old guy who all you did was hand him your clothes and he handed your receipt for it. And I wasn't gonna complain to him. He didn't ship so and the only by the way. The only other thing I had was I knew everyone else had scores and scores of paperwork from psychiatrists and things like that. All I had was like a note from my old family doctor. It's one little a little square piece of

paper is saying, Robert walk tell his bad stuffing. He's never been the same since his mom died. He's been a little off since then, and he has just pepsia. He can't eat. I said, what does that mean, he goes, I means you can't eat fried food and that's all they cook. So okay, okay, good, it's my note. And uh so there was nobody to say I'm refusing to do this with. And I got really freaked at that point. I was really scared. I sat down and just was like,

I don't know what I'm gonna do now. This is terrifying. Here I am alone in here, and everyone on these coons are taking their clothes off. And then so finally I went, okay, I gotta go through it. I went through this stuff. I had my little note in my hand. I was too afraid just tell anyone I want to see the psychiatrist. I didn't know what to do, so and but I was again funky, you know what I mean. So when they examined me certain parts of my body,

they went you, which was kind of fun. And so all of a sudden, this guy, as you're walking up to this one checkpoint, he's looking at everyone's paperwork and goes, you there, you there, this guy in front of me, you psychiatrist. You there, you handed my thing? It was you psychiatrist. But oh wow, okay, someone's working here. So from then on I sat outside the sychatra's office, sat there, and there was on the bed there was a guy. And Herbie ha said, don't talk to anybody, even if

you see someone you know, don't talk to anyone. Don't know, this is not a social event. Don't communicate with anyone. But there was this guy sitting outside the psychiatrist's office with like a million necklaces on and and smoking incense in a in a roach clip, and it was like wow. And I said to this guy, and I know that there was no one else around, and you don't really think you're gonna get out like that to you man? And he goes, man, you kidding. I've been in the

nuthouse five times. Ain't gonna take me. He went in and sure enough he was out of that psychiatrist's office in like thirty things. You know, he goes okay. And then I went in and talked to the psychiatrist and I told him how afraid of life I was, basically, and and uh said, you ever take drugs? So I know, yeah, LSD a lot of it, because how many times I would I don't know, it doesn't know, okay. And and

there it's funny. They're they're really mean in there. They're really tough on you all the way through that whole physical yelling at do this, I don't do that. If you're blind in one eye, you pass. If you definitely want to hear, you pass, you're all going of Vietnam. But from the moment I left that psychiatrists office, they were really kid gloves with me. Oh hey, Robert, come this way, you have a seat over here. Man, it

will only be a minute, okay. You know, we're gonna give you the slip and you're gonna have a one ye and just take it easy and you know, everything's fine. And they were really gentle with me by that moment. On so I left there are I don't even know I got home. I was so he later, I couldn't believe it. So you found it right then that they weren't going to take you. Oh yeah, yeah, I got a one why instead of so what did? What did

the psychiatrist say or do? He just did? He just asked me these questions about you know, where you see you've been in Vermont? And I said yeah, I said what did you do there? I said, I was washing dishes in this club the bluetooth. Uh what else do you do? I said, I don't too much else. You know, if he didn't let on your musician, Okay, why was

Herbie doing you this? Solid? But asked him to really Yeah, he knew Bud and he said one of my guys needs help with the draft board, do you And he said, yeah, I can help him. People have no idea if you didn't live through this. This was like the biggest thing they would be conversed about. It was Frank Creez. It was frightening. And then and still when we moved to l A, I was still waiting and it was only a one why. For anyone who doesn't know what that means,

that means a one year deferment. What you were going for was a four F means you're out period, he'll never be in the army, but one why means they can come calling again, and they started, you know that. Then it went to the what do you call it, the the wattery? Yeah, lottery, And finally they didn't call my numbers, and I was out. Remember what your number was? I was to something. Oh, of course, come on, I was in college. I was gonna get four years. You

were still worried. It was frightening, It really was so Uh. You moved to l A with Bud. Yeah, your band is living in this house. Is Budd doing anything for you? Yeah? He's What kind of language barrier have we on here? Can I use favorite adjective? Okay, he's fucking up every record deal I'm getting. We came out here. We did a demo, you know, and it was really pretty good, you know, original songs and everyone this band sounded really good.

Everybody's sang five part harmonies, very good. Songs were musically good lyrically okay, and it was a good, good presentation and it was good enough to the first deal he went to get for us was with Atlantic, and I remember one day after Bud Wind saw m it. My phone rings and I pick it up and I can hear my demo in the background, and it's this voice. I want to talk to Watty. Uh. This is what he goes. This is I'm on nan because I love

this fucking record. I love this fucking record. We're gonna welcome to Atlantic, man, We're gonna make a great record. I love this band. You guys sound beautiful. This is incredible. I can't believe it. Hung up the phone. Guys. We gotta deal, we gotta deal. First deal, he went. Day later, no deal. Bud Cassel would go back to these meetings, asked for the moon and want to converge the cow Sils, make a bigger deal. Wanted he wanted this for me, but he wanted them to do this for the cow

Sills and all this. He had all these big plans. Nomad passed, so then it was on to someone at Columbia. Loved it. He went, Bud went in to make the deal passed. He ruined at least three record deals that we had, and it was it was amazing, you know. He was just fucking it up left and right. And it's funny. When we first moved here, I really wanted to meet Brian Wilson. That was my dream, you know,

Brian was what year you moved here? The councils have their had their head and he hits, yeah, I think they ran in the park and the other things was a big hit, and uh, what was the second record was we Could Fly? We can Fly here? It was later, So we came out here and I wanted to meet Brian. And the other person I wanted to meet was Dave Crosby because at that point David was speaking for our generation. He was saying a lot of good, good things. So

I wanted to meet Dave. And I love the birds, you know, you know, just a little stop for once. At what point do you go from Robert oh Well in the in the newer Schelle band. Actually, uh, there was a guy in that band who Jerry Burnback. His name is um. He used to funk up a lot. He used to make a lot of mistakes, so I'd be on his on his case all the time, and he got sick of it. So one day, to shut me up out of nowhere, he just went, I'm sorry,

whydy like that off of Wachtel. I guess he got it and and I went, what he was, Okay, why don't call me that man? What's the matter? Stopped that it's weird, and then after a while I went, you know, I'm so sick of the word pardon me, Bob. I'm so sick of named Bob. Maybe why he ain't so bad, He's okay. And it's like after I met Leslie, because I know, I introduced myself as Bobby and any Waddy's okay, I gotta go with Watty. I'm sick of but I don't want to hear myself called Bob anymore. My wife

still calls me Bob. It says my brother. But you know, and uh so that's when that happened. You're listening to my conversation with Wady walk Tell, recorded live at the tune In Studios in Venice, California. I hope you're enjoying this episode of the Bob Left Sets Podcast. As you know, we shoot a little video and take pictures here at the tune In studios so you can look them up at apt tune in on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Now more of my conversation with Waddy walk Tell. I'm the

Bob Left Sets Podcast. Okay, by the seventies eight. You're here style curly here to your shoulders as legendary. When do you We all grew our here were the Beatles, But when did you develop the look you presently have? It just grows this way, so I've had it forever, okay, But people didn't have their here that long, no, fat time, No, but it was it was, you know, every ever since Beatles, everyone's hair started growing and you know, I used to try to straighten this stuff too, and it was it

was a nightmare. Uh, But after a while I just went I saw it was funny. I saw Eric Clapton one day and he had like his big frizzy hair do. Well, gee, that's how my hair looks when I wake up. So fuck it, I'm done. Let's stop. Go back to close sideway. Was your brother your brother graduates from high school? Does he continue in school? Yeah? He went to Brooklyn College. He went to n y U and then he was in Brooklyn College studying broadcasting. And then how does he

become a designer? Well, he came out here and I lived next to uh this great photographer, and Lorie Sullivan and Jimmy came out and he met Laurie and they just hit it off. And Laurie said, I do photography and you know, thinking to do an album covers, and Jimmy, oh that's great, I could. I could do layouts and stuff for that. And so they became this team and they did a lot of the covers, you know, all

a lot of Dawn Patrol. Well even before Dawn Patrol, I think it was just Jimmy and Lloyd did Stevie Buckingham Knicks album covers them. But your brother had me training. You have to ask him, I don't think so, you know, are you still close? Oh? Yeah, okay, So anyway, let's back to you. So budd pocks up all the record deals, Yes, he does. And then where does that leave you? Well,

it also leaves me. What I was gonna say was when I met the second night I'm in town, I see Dave Crosby sitting at this restaurant like two tables away from me, and I'm going, this is unbelievable. I can't, this isn't. What do I do do I introduce myself, make a fool of myself? Yep? Get up? Where do I let this opportunity pass by? No? Get up? Went over and interrupted his dinner and said, I'm sorry to bother you, Mr Crosby, but that is Watery walked down.

I just came here with my band and he says, well, how did you get here? And I mentioned the counsels. He went, oh god, yeah, I said, I know, I know, I know, but that it has nothing to do with us. We have our own band and I'd love you to come here our band, and he goes, okay, what, okay, well, okay, fine. So he came over and Judy Pulver, who was our our girl in the band, made dinner and we sat around and talking and and then Dave said this thing to me. This is during the the area where budd

is screwing up deals and stuff. And I'm starting to get a little worried about it. But I don't know. He's my manager. I think everything's cool. He goes, So David says, who's your publisher? I want, um, my manager, and he just looks at me and he goes asshole, but huh, because nobody should be your publisher. You're your own publisher. Your manager is robbing you. This is what else has he got? I said, well, we signed management Production and Publishing, and he was you idiot? He says,

that's robbing you. Nobody should have your publishing. So when he left at night, I called Bud. I said, I want my publishing back. You robbed me and everything. So things started getting a little intense. And as I kept going the band because of Bud screwing us up, we never got anywhere. We never got We finally did a gig. All we did. He says, I just want you guys to write and rehearse right, and rehearse right and rehearse,

so he's paying for you to live. We had fifty bucks a week and living in a nice joint and we finally did a gig and and man, I'm it's funny. I met a dear friend of mine there who wound up writing Arwolves in London with Warren and myself. But he saw my band at night. But it kept going on, and David called me after he heard the band and everything, and and there was two phone calls he made to me. One of them was, let me ask you something, what would you think if I was to put a band

together with Steven Stills and Graham Nash? And I went, I think I don't have to think it would be the biggest band in the world forever. That's what I think. It was. Okay, well, that's what we're doing. I went, oh, man, that's great. Then he called me a couple of days later. He goes, Whyty, I gotta talk to you about something. What he goes, you know you're the only one in that band, right Oh? No, no, he goes, he said

that everybody sings. Okay, but he says, you know you're the only musician in that band, right, Well let me but this way, I hear what you're saying. But you know, I'm gonna try to keep this band together. He goes, it's not gonna happen, man. And and so eventually Budd screwing us up to screen us up, and everybody's starting to rag on me. And finally I said, oh, and we met Keith Olsen, producer. Yeah, and and his partner was a guy of Kurt Betcher. I don't remember Kurt.

He died. And but Keith and Kurt we're gonna They heard us and loved our band, wanted to produce us. So we went in the studio with him and it just became a fight. It became a real It wasn't working, and Keith and I became well. I can tell he and I were hitting it off musically, but the band was not having so and I met. I was gonna say, as I met some studio musicians, I'm still a green little radish, you know that just came out here. But I met guys who were studio musicians, and well, and

I heard this guy playing. I went, well, I play that good. I play as good as he does. I want that's what I want to do. I want to become a studio musician and U And then I looked around. This band was just been giving me nothing but paint and the neck. But as a matter of fact, that's what I'm gonna do. You're all fired and I'm not quitting. I want you to know there's a difference. You're fired. So this band's done now, and I'm gonna and Judy

and I were the songwriters in the band. So she and I kept together and tried to pursue a deal for the two of us, which didn't happen, but she and I went up living together, and then I started working. I started getting sessions. Two questions, This is a romance between you and her? Yeah? OK, yeah, it didn't start that way, but it wound up and then the rest

of the band. You tell them they're fired, but they say, they said, okay, fine, Well we were at a point of everything was friction anyway, Okay, Bud say oh Budd. At that point was out, Bud was gone. We were done with Bud. At that point I had taken back my publishing. I didn't want him to manage me anymore. It was over. I said it were done, We're done. And actually his son Bill got a record deal and that was the first session I did. I did. I

played a session for Billy. Okay, but one has to ask, late sixties, he made you sign paper, his legendary story, Billy Joel. He makes a deal. They come back later when he's success. You know, he just let it go. He did, he did. He was cool in that level, I say, because he was screwing us and if anybody had taken him to court, they would have said, yeah, you're dead man. So he knew he was in the rule.

So you're you're working with Keith. You decided to become a studio musician, Okay, so how do you get your first gig? Is how much later? With counsel. Well, it just it's timing wise. It was kind of around the same period. You know, Billy left the band, left the Family group and got a record deal. So he goes, I gotta record deal. I want you to play on this session with me. Great, and and oh another facet

of this is I did meet Brian Wilson. I met a friend of mine who became a lifelong friend, and he was the Brian's right hand man for many years. They weren't he wasn't working with him anymore. But I met this guy. His name was Arne Geller, and he looked he looked just like a Jewish relative. He was so New York looking, and he was an l a guy, but he was so New York. And anyway, he brought me to Bryant's. I met Brian and he said, so

you met Brian, and you said and did one? I first, well, I went crazy, but I I just told him what a big fan I was, and I said, as a matter of fact, I am such a fan of yours. I want to show you that there's a song by the Beach Boys called let the Wind Blow. You know that song, beautiful, beautiful piano part really bizarre piano part. And that's one of the things that I made myself learn on piano because I just loved it so much. I said, I'm such a fan of yours that I've learned.

I'm a guitar player, but I had to learn let the wind blow. And I sat down at his piano and played it for him, and he's going, wow, that's heavy. You learned that. You're talking yourself that. Yeah, I had to. I said, I just love it. He was, wow, that's cool. So and then we went in his studio and he sat down, he played me some stuff on the on his board. But Brian was he was in a real fragile place then. And uh, but so I got to meet Brian, and Brian put me on a date. That's

what I was gonna say. The second record date I did was through Brian Wilson, who was some I don't even know what it was for now, I don't remember. Okay, when you stopped working with Bud, and Bud stopped giving you your fifty dollars a week before you become a studio musician, what are you living on. We're living on a little bit of surplus money we had and Judy had money, had some bread. Family money, Yeah, family money. So we were living off a judy until I started

getting working. And then okay, you go to you do the gig with Bill Cowsel. How do you establish your studio career? Well, I did that, I did the other session Brian. And then it's funny when I said I when we did our gig, the one gig we did with my band, my friend Roy Marinell, a guy who I came to meet then, was at that show, was really impressed by this band because we did it. Sounded amazing this band, and yeah, so we got to be friendly and he knew Nick Vnet and Linda Ronstads stone

to so he says, you should meet Nick. So he set up a meeting and wanted Nick to hear me play. So Nick put me on a date and he liked what I was doing, so he hired me. So that's how I started working through Nick really and he would hire me over and over for days because he really doug what I was doing. And now you're giving up the dream, how do you feel about that? It was all the dream from the band thing, became studio musician. That's the new d That's what I want just because

you and you you slug too hard without success. Yeah, I guess so yeah. Okay, so you were Judie and I were getting nowhere. Okay, so you're working with Nick and you're doing these sessions. What's the next step. The next step is somebody comes to me and says, I'm going to this guy's house to talk with him about some upcoming record sessions. Okay, great, and he says, oh, and by the way, the Everly Brothers need a guitar player. Uh so at that point though, but I've started working

for Nick and I'm doing other sessions around town. I'm working with Keith Olsen produced He's producing other people. So while I was doing my own demos with Keith, he was working me on sessions. Okay, two things, Well, One, to what degree you're sitting home waiting for the phone to ring? Into what degree are you working it? Well, you're working the phone? You mean I didn't know how to do that. It was all a matter of that

phone ringing. Okay, I didn't know how to. You didn't know how to, I mean the nature of being a musician, though apparently you're your networker. Well, but there was I didn't know what that meant? Okay, there, So, okay, you were playing specific gigs with Nick and with Keith, but there was was there someone who had your job and you said, well, I gotta knock this guy off to

get that job. Well, you know, it's funny had that job really, because I'd see all these records with this name on it, and I'm going, why is he working so much? Who's this guy? And so I left Judy and I had our thing together. We split up and I moved in with this guy, Arnie Geller to his little house. Where's Judy to Judy works for Variety Daily Variety. She's a writer for Variety. Yeah, she's great. So she

never made it in a music business. She got a record, she did a record, we went and toured it and so, but it never really turned into it. Judy Pulver Pulver Rising was the record. So, okay, you move in with Geller. I'm moving with Artie. And at that point, I'm starting to do sessions. I'm working the sessions here and there. And this meeting that I had about the Everly Brothers, this guy is talking about record dates. So he says to me, the Everly Brothers need a guitar player. I went, oh,

wait a minute, are you kidding? I said, that's my gig man. I know every song, I know both vocal parts. I know every guitar part. What do I do? How do I how do I get there? So he goes, well, um, call this guy Sandy Zevon, call Sandy's van and you'll you'll, you'll set up an audition for you. Okay, great, Hi Sandy. This is my name is Waddy waktell be it be down at s i R tomorrow rehearsal hall. Yeah. So I go down there. I'm looking around. I don't know

who's who. Are you Sandy? No, my name is Gene. I'm trying out for the band too. I'm the drummer. Okay, are you Sandy? No, I'm Bob Canniggie. I'm the bass player who I built the Everlies for quite a while. Okay, oh you're why do you come on in here? So we're in the room waiting. The door opens and incomes this guy with a fedora, had on a Searus sucker jacket. At that point, I'm walking around, I got a beard, I'm wearing an undershirt. It's a hot summer day. In

l A. I'm Sandy zvon Oh. Okay, hey man, how you doing good? All right, So here's what we're gonna do. We'll play this song and then you'll play it. Okay, well you know you could. You can leave out that stick. I know all these tunes. He goes, No, this is how we're gonna do it. Okay, fine. So anyway, that's how I got the job of the Everly Brothers. That's where I met Warren. And uh, when did you go from being Sandy to war Well? Somebody, you know, it's funny.

Somebody just mentioned to me why he was calling himself Sandy, and I can't remember, with some cousins name that he he liked or something like that. So he adapted it for a little while. But when we were on the road, he was Warren Zevon right away it was Warren. I thought your name was Sandy Warren. Okay, fine? Um? But so and then okay, did you get close to him

like a hear close to Keith Olsen? Yeah, well, in a manner of speaking, a Warren and I had a vinegar and water kind of relationship forever really, but we were we became very very close. But at first, it was sand and gravel next to each other. You know, we were always arguing about music. It was always about music though, you know. And but we we wound up playing music all the time, all night long, every night

on the road with the A Relies. And what was wonderful about that was that when I got the job with the Averlies, they said, now listen, don't you try to get them together. I went, huh, what are you talking about? They said, well, you know they don't get along. I went, fine, you know, so don't you be the one that thinks, you know, don't you let yourself think you'll be the one to bring them together? As are you kidding? I'm walking on egg show. I haven't even

met them yet. You know. I didn't meet them until we went on stage at not's Bury Farm. It was the first gig, and then we went to Europe right away the next day, two days later. So I wasn't about it and try to meet and you know, I didn't know anything. I was frightened to death. They said, my idols and uh, but one night and so every night we're just playing music all night long and Phil goes, what are you guys doing? I said, we were just we're playing all night, and he goes, I'm want to

come by. And then the next day Donald goes, so what are you guys doing. I said, well, we've been playing at night. He goes, funk, I'm coming over. So this was the dream, Bob. You have the Everly brothers sitting in your hotel room, sitting on the floor singing. It was the most magical thing you can You can you brought them together? No, I didn't music, did you know? Me? Warren our our, our addiction to music brought them together, brought their addiction to music into the room with us.

I guess. But there's the Everything brothers sitting on the floor in your hotel room singing. It was so beyond reality. And everybody was smoking cigarettes, smoking a little weed, drinking all night long. Every night. This was our life on the road. That was that we do a show. We'd go to the room play music all night. So Warren is and so Warren's playing me Desperadoes under the eaves, playing me Frank and Jesse Carmelita, I'm playing and maybe

I'm right, you know a couple of my songs. It's great. It was amazing, and you know, went from that, came back to town. Still sessions are going. I'm getting more and more dates, and I was working with Nick Still and all of a sudden, Nick Manette takes me aside and because it's time for you to move on, Wady, what does that mean, I'm fired? You're firing me? He goes, No, I'm not firing you. It's time for you to move on.

You're you're better than what we're doing here. We're doing these folk records a lot of folk artists, and I was playing acoustic all the time. And he goes, there's a new piano player in town, this guy named David Foster. He just moved here and he's the hot shot guy in town. And I've invited him to the session tomorrow night because I want him to hear you play. So bring your amp, bring your less Paul, and you're gonna

play electric tomorrow. I wanted to hear you play slide play. Okay, So with the session came, I met Dave played he dug it, apparently, I guess I didn't know. And to three days later, I get a call from Lou Adler's office saying they want me on a session for Lou and I'm overlooking on one aspect of this in this interim time through working with Keith. I first, the first one of my brothers that I met was Leland Lee Clark, and he was we worked on a session for Bobby Womack.

Keith was producing. So I meet Lee and I've already met Jim Keltner, but I hadn't met Coach, I hadn't met Russell and yeah, and so all of a sudden, I'm going to s i R one day and I'm I have my car, my fifty seven Chevy Wagon, and out of the driveway comes another fifty seven Chevy Wagon, both primary gray color, and this guy is driving it stops and he looks at me. He goes, are you waddy? Yeah, he goes, I'm Russ. But yeah, all right, man, Hey, how are you doing? He goes. He says, I gotta go,

but we're gonna be seeing a lot of each other. Yeah, he says, yeah. And so and then then I got the call to do this session for Lou for I think it was a Tim Curry. Tim Tim was making a record and Couch was on the date. So there was the crux of the brothers. I've grown up playing records with Russell Leland and Danny, and Danny and I had this thing against this guy, coach. I hate this fucking guy. Who is this guy's getting all this work?

And I meet him and we loved each other instantly, and we you know, and the first tune was like a reggae tune, which was our my passion and Danny's passion, and Warren and I just craved hard did they come when that came out? We were Warren and I and Jorge Calderone. We saw the movie a million times and we learned yeah, yeah, yeah, you know Johnny too Bad every song, oh seven, all those great tunes, and so we were all reggae freaks. So Danny and I got

on famously, and so it went from that too. Carol King and then Peter Peter Ashes saw me playing with Carol and he hired me to play for Lynda. Okay, this was on the road or for records? Who was for? Uh? So hard to say. I think it was for the road because the first session I did for Peter was with JD. Souther on a song called simple Dreams, Simple Man, Simple Dreams. Alum and j D and I were friends because Jimmy. My brother Jimmy did the Southern Hillman Fury album cover. So I met j D then and we

liked each other. We spent a night one night getting really drug together, and I wanted to play a little and he wanted to sing Everley's and went Everley's right, now you're talking man. So I had my all I had was my lesson. I don't even have an acoustic guitar, had my less pole and j D had an acoustic So we strummed the little guitars together and played all night and when it was funny when he left. When I woke up the next day, I said to Jimmy, I said, did he like me? Was it? He was?

I think he liked it. He said, man, you're brothers funky? Yeah? Is that a compliment? I think I hope that's a compliment. J D and I became the best of friends and spent many years together working on songs and music and records. And Okay, so you're basically doing sessions for these individuals that you gave connections to, as opposed to a guy who's showing up at nine and uh, well I was doing that too. You were doing yeah, all of a sudden,

I was working real sessions. I was working like two or three sessions a day, like that's what was happening. And in that period, early seventies, was this incredible musical explosion in Los Angeles, and there was so much There was so many great artists, and there was so much work being done. You know, I was working. I've worked on a movie score with Lionel Newman, or for Jimmy Heskell.

I worked with Mike Dacy, with Hal Blane, all these guys, all the guys, you know, working on Jackie's Shannon records, working on Helen Helen Ready records, you know, working on everything. We're read a Coolidgio one day. And then Stevie Linda We made Stevie Lindsay's record with Keith, the Buckingham Knicks record. We did that on Poldoria and and then I didn't see Stevie for a long time. Well before you go there, So you're working all these sessions, You're probably not making

good money. So your lifestyle changes, yeah, somewhat, you know, basically, I mean not really. Okay, you know, my last style change didn't change, but I was supporting myself. Okay, how about coke and other drugs. Since you're working so much, there's a lot of that around. Okay. So okay, so you do the Buckingham Knicks record and you said you haven't talked to Stevie for a while. Yeah, you know, it's all of a sudden they were gone. I was

I was working for Linda Peter. When Peter saw me cal he said, I want you to come play on the road with with Linda. Just to be clear, I Andrew Gold was a key part of that act. Yeah, okay, So how did you fit in? Well, we played together. You know, like the first session I'd think I did for Linda, I didn't overdub on something pretty for her. But then the first tracking day I did for Linda

was the song that will be the Day. And so Andrew and I, you know, I played my solo, he played his, and then we played a little lick at the end together and we got on. Well. I knew Andrew.

I admit Andrew again through my friend Roy Marinell and there was there was a whole bunch of guys down in Venice, you know, Roy, Andrew, Kenny Edwards, all these guys had this little musical family going on down there, so I knew Andrew and so there was no competition, not really, no, no, okay, but so when it came to the records, you would both play on the records. Yeah, okay, So okay, you're playing with the Andrew and you're now

you're talking about Stevie. Well. Yeah. So it went through the years of Linda and we went through different UH band personnel changes in Linda's band. But I got to a point where was over for me. I just I couldn't do it. The music it's for me. It's some music dictates what I do, and if I'm not musically in a good place with it, I can't last. I just can't do it. You know, I mean you, when

you're doing sessions, that's different. You know, you're walking sometimes and there's a song you don't like, but you're gonna do your best. You know you're gonna do your best, make sure you get something good on there, and and that's how it is on session. But when you're doing it live and stuff, it's just different. I get to a point the material of a sudden became stuff I

couldn't play. I didn't want to play, So I left and UH and then Stevie and I was still doing sessions, like you know, two three sessions today, and all of a sudden, I got a call from Jimmy Ivean's office saying, we want you to play on stevie next solo record. I don't. Oh wow, okay, I haven't seen her in a while, so I remember, I just thought of the Blue.

You haven't seen her in years, and yeah, she told Jimmy, I want to get Wady walked out here, and so we showed up, saw each other and we just got right back into it. You know, we were we were friends a long time ago and we became fast friends again. And musically it was I could I can see what to do on her stuff. I knew what to do and it just worked right away, you know. So that's what happened. Okay, that's I believe. And what else is

going on with you? Then? Well, just that sessions and that a lot of it's still a lot of the great record dates and like Brian Bryan Ferry's record went down, and before that, you know that all the seventies was Warren you know Jackson. We did the the the album, the Blue cover album for the Sky, No No Are

You talking about first the first Von album on Asylum. Yeah, and uh, I played on that record and Warren, introducing to Jay, brought me in and so we played that record and then Jackson called me and said, I want you to co produce his next record with me. What really? Wow, that's great. And Jackson said, well, he won't listen to me anymore. He will listen to me, and he'll listen to you right now, but he probably won't listen to you either after this one's done. And that's what happened exactly.

But so and we went and we did Excitable Boy and that was the breakthrough record. It was it was and you are accredited right around Werewolves of London. So how did that come together? Well again, back to my friend Rouy Marinell. I had known him since maybe sevent and he and I would get together and work on songs, write songs, and one day right he said, I got this lick, and UH, play me this lick. And we tried for about two years to put it to a

song and never could. And then what happened was I went to England with Linda, no excuse me, I went to England with my old friend Judy Pulver, which she had her record situation. And there I am in London and I went to a Chinese joint and so called le hop folks. And and when I came back, I stopped by Roy's one day as I was heading into town to work on a session for Linda, I think, and I stopped by Roy's and Warren was there, and he goes, oh, man, I'm glad you're here. He says.

Phil called me last night. Phil Everley called me last night and he said, there's a song time. I got a song title for you. You and Watty you got to write a song called Warrells in London. And and I literally just got home from London, so I went, well, that's easy. And the best part was I looked at Roy with this lick that he'd been playing for years. I went, Roy, play that fucking lick and he started that that that, and I just looked at Warren and

I said, so we need lyrics. You means something like I saw a werewolf of the Chinese menu in his hand walking down the streets and soho. And then he goes, yeah, yeah, just like that. And I wrote the first verse basically, I just spit out the first verse, recounting it what I just went through in London, and I said, and it's it's it's a war, it's a werewolf, so we should go oh and war. That's great, that's great. I said, yeah, okay, well you finish it. I gotta gonna work, I gotta

I gotta leave. But we we we, so we we. They wrote some lyrics down and we got through the first verse. Warren and Royce sketched some more lyrics and we wrote our song and that was basically it. And then, uh, recording that song was the hardest song in the world to get on on tape. It just wouldn't behave so to speak, It wouldn't lay down. Every time we tried it war than I hated it. Uh Um, it just wasn't.

It sounded cute, it sounded funny. The band track didn't sound heavy, you know, it didn't sound and we needed it to be. It had to juxtapose serious band track underneath this ridiculous lyric and h and Jorge Calderone, I'm

pretty sure it was. George said, you know who could We tried seven bands and all the greatest players in town, you know, Russell and Lee, Lee and Lee and and Rich Losser or Mike Botts or Jeff Procaro, Bob and Russ, Lee and Russ every combination we could try, and we kept failing, and we just said we don't like it. And Jackson's going it's good. We're going, no, it's not. It's not good enough. Doesn't feel like it. And Jorge said, you know who could play this? Mick Fleetwood and John McVie.

I bet could play this one. Yeah, that's a heavy, heavy beat. I think you're right, man, I bet that's right. So I called Nick and I said, would you guys consider coming down here to play? Says you want us to play? It was like this mutual admiration society. They were so taken that we would want them, and we

were so taken that they would say yes. So it was a magical, crazy, long night of takes and where we finally at six in the morning, I looked at Jackson through the glass and I said, Take two was good, wasn't it? Because yeah, you want to hear it. Yeah, because when we did it, we did take one, we did take two. Jackson went, that was pretty good, man, I think that was good. Mick goes to how let's keep going, let's keep going, and they saying, I know it's like six in the morning, you know, and we're

still like flogging away Jackson. Take two was good, right, he goes, yeah, we're gonna go here. Take two And because Mick was enemy, we've never done what we've never done? And I finally looked at mich We've done, we've done. Pack your fucking drums up, man, we'd finished. We got it, and take two was the one and uh, okay, did you have any idea that it would be a hit in a legendary record, No, not a clue. We were Warren and I were taken aback bet of fact when

Asylum picked that as the single. We were amazed. We were so wrong, we were we so could not see the forest for the trees, I think is the phrase. We couldn't see it at all. We were we were aghas that they would pick the joke tune out of all these great songs. We thought, what the hell is going on here? And they were so right and we were so wrong. And knock wood it's been supporting me and Warren's family and was now passed away too, but

it's supporting all of us. All these years, you know, so there's a good check that still comes in from world hopefully. Yeah, it's been quite a good earner. One other songs have you written that were that my audience would be familiar with? Her town too? Was another? Yeah, the great j D Souther James Taylor song. How did that come together? It came together with Peter suggested that James and j D write a song together, and and Peter, yeah, and so we j D said, look, I don't I

don't know James at all. I said, well, I'll come to I'll come over because I was working with James. Then I said, okay, so I'll come over and and we got there and it was a crazy night and we just we're kind of sitting around. I was working on a session and and j D called. He says, where are you? Man? He says, James is here, and I don't don't know what to do with him. I said, we'll just give him. You gotta give a drink and just you know, hang out. Well, I'll be there soon.

I'll be there soon. So I get there and we're kind of all. You know, it's a little tenuous when you're when you sit down and write a song with somebody if you're not that familiar with him or havn't written with him, it's how do you start? You know, what's the icebreaker? And and all of a sudden, I don't know where James just started fingerpicking this really lovely chordal thing and I looked at j D. You know, where's your cassette player? Is what cassette player? Get a

cassette player, Get a cassette machine. And James is still playing. And finally j D goes and gets it because I played, puts it down. It's a record. James stops and I don't know and he says, oh, Ship, what was I doing? I said, this is what you were doing? And again my ear, so this is what you were doing? He was oh, yeah, right, al right, that's it. And then we dug the changes and we just started working on lyrics, and by six or seven in the morning we had

this beautiful song. That best song on that record. Dad loves his work, I think is the album? I think. So yeah, okay, so you work with Stevie and then you end up working with Henley. How does that come to be? Um? Well, i I'd worked with don you know through the years in town. I'd met the guys, so Don and Glenn would be at our at Warren sessions. You know. That's what I mean that that period in

Los Angeles was incredible. If you weren't if you weren't on a session working there, chances are you were there hanging out with your friends and helping it. You know, you need an entertainbering part or something, or you just have a drink, sit down, have a have a cigarette, you know whatever, hang out. So that's how it was. It was such an intertwined creative period. It was unbelievable.

It was. I equate it to like Liverpool when Beatles explosion happened and everybody knew each other and all these bands, you know, we're collectively working, and that's how it was. Here. You were working. I met Crosby, so I knew day. I met Steve Stills, so I was working with Graham. I've worked on some stuff. Don Henley was producing an artist, so I played. He hired me to play on that, and that's how it was. I mean, you were just

in the thick of it. Everybody was in the thick of it together and so um Don at one point decided he was gonna make a solo record, and he asked a few different people about producing, and I spoke to him about it, but he chose Danny. And Danny said to Don, well should get water? He said, yeah, bring Wady in here. So that's how I got on the Don's record. I knew Don and from already all of all these records you've played on. What are you proudest in terms of record? He'd work, that's hard, that's

really hard. Or maybe I'll change the word, make it favorite. What are your favorites? Again? That's that's really tough. I mean it. How do you how do you choose between being on the the the live session for Blue by you, uh, the live session for Betty Davis Eyes um, and just seventeen you know, stand back, It's hard, you know, Bob Seeger.

I mean, I've been very fortunate and very blessed to be in the studio with these people when all these these incredible records get dead made and you're part of it, you know. I mean Betty Davis Eyes, I just happened to stop by record one. It was my favorite bar, you know, and I was done working for the day and I stopped buying. Val Garay said, I'm glad you're here. Josh Leo can't come. I need you to play on

this record. Man, I've been playing all day. I don't want to work now because come here and listen to the song. That's pretty good. And everything was live. Everything you hear on that record is live, you know, everything went down when we cut it. Kim's vocal everything say with blue Boy, then his vocal that's the because she's

sang when we cut it. So and then and then uh, then I went with word with Keith, with Keith Richards, and so then I'm in the studio with Keith Richards and before that, I'm in the studio with Joe Walsh. So it's really hard to pick a favorite. Those are guitar players. Well, Keith is more known as a rhythm player. You know, Joe Walsh would seem that he's doing what you're doing. Yeah, but because of that, we got on really well. You know, uh, we got on real well.

And I just you know, a couple of two years ago did Joe called me and said would you come too with me? And it was fantastic playing solos with Joe, you know, next to Joe or instead of Joe. And it was wonderful, you know, so and it's great to know that he would trust me enough to say you you take this one. You know, we did his records. There's this stuff where I solo on was this is Soult Beautiful Salt Rosewood Bidders whereas, yeah, that's me on the solo, you know. And uh And it was a funny,

funny moment in the studio with Joe. We were so locked into our guitar parts, so we're so excited about it. And I said, well, how about why don't I play that line? We call each other double w W and j W. You know, so I said, hey, man, why don't I I'll play that line. Okay, j W, listen, I should play that line. He goes, yeah, why don't you? Why don't you play that line? And then I'll double you do W. We just looked at each other. Did

you really just say that? Then? What? So that, you know, to work on these records and then to get a call from Keith Richards saying I'm putting a band together and you're the other guitar player in it. And you never met him, No, we've met I met him when I was on the road with Linda. Then we fell in love right away. Then we got on, We got on very well, and uh so that was the call. I got the call. We'll plause here for a brief moment and get right back to Waddy Wachtell. First and

for most, I'm a writer. I cover everything from music to tech, to my personal life to the zeitgeist at large. Go to left sets dot com and go down the rabbit hole in addition to reading my commentary on music tech in the world at large. Will be the first to find out when we've published a new podcast. Plus, I'd like to give a little bit of behind the scenes, which I hope you find is a nice addition to the podcast. Go to left sets dot com and sign

up for the newsletter. Now we're with guitar legend Waddy Wachtell, recorded live at the tune In Studios in Venice, California. Okay, a couple of just questions for those on the outside that always wonder about this. Mick Fleetwood and John mcvieh come to play on Werewolves of London. Do they get paid? Yeah? So you they built just like a session. Okay, so anybody shows up they're getting paid and listen, get away

with not paying him. Yeah yeah, okay, but if there's a budget and somebody comes in and they're contributing there, they're going to get a check. Okay, Yeah, they got paid. Scaling right right when you're when you're a studio musician in town, there's a lot of talk that well a lot of the famous musicians or legendary musicians, musicians are afraid to leave town because someone's going to take their gig. Yeah,

is that something new experience? Well, you know, not really, but I mean by now yeah, you know, sure, you know, you were, you were. We would go out of town and come bight back to work work. There was enough work done yet, and we were of a certain level in people's minds. They wanted you, they wanted you. You know. I came home from months on road with Linda and I got a call to go work for Richard Perry, who had never met And I was going, I don't

want to go to work, but I went. You know, I got paid well for it, and and met Richard and got terrifically with Richard, and I love him dearly, you know. And so years of work with Richard, you know Leo Sayermant played with for Leo and point of Sisters. So what would it take for you to go on the road as opposed to stay in l A. What do you mean back in that era because you're doing a certain amount of touring and also a certain amount

of studio work. You know, some people might say, I don't want to go on the road, all right, Well, if you're a ham like me, you know you you love being on that stage. So so that's that's an attractive offer, and monetarily it was. It worked that fine, you know. And and Peter was a class act always, and he said, you know you're going to travel first class with us. That's how we do it. You know,

the band is that important to us. And so I got spoiled at a young age and learned that, well, I am more important than just the guy who carries that guitar and knows how to plug it in. You know. So we were treated very well. You know, we've really kind of covered the eighties. What happens now when we get the nineties and beyond, well, nineties and beyond, I'm still doing sessions and I'm still with at that point, uh, Stevie and I had taken a break and I was

with Keith from through I think. And that's when Stevie called me and said, please come back, come back. And I was little hesitant, and uh, but I did. I went back and I sat in on our show and and she said, that's great. She said, it's so great to have you back. I need you to do this with me again. I said, will if I'm gonna do

it with you again, he can't lead the band. My friend Carlos Rios who still plays with us, and it's a doll, but he was the band leader when I came back, and I said, if I'm going to do this, I lead the band. That's the only way I work. That's one caveat with me is I'm pretty much a loud mouth when it comes to band. So so I said, I have to lead the band. I can't let I can't take do it his way. We gotta do it my way. And I said, okay, So Carlos I'm just

stood and graciously stepped aside. And so Steve and I have toured incredibly through the all nineties and into the thousands and into the two thousand's and then, like I said, and all a sudden, Joe called me and next time I knew us on the road with Joe for about almost a year. So you know, it just thank God keeps going. Okay, So at this point in time, how much do you work right now? Right now? It's little slower,

which is cool, which is cool, It's all right. But it's like I said, Stevie, and Stevie is going to go with Fleetwood. They're starting on Fleetwood. So so we're having are what I call a trial separation. And when Fleetwood tours over, we'll go back to work, and so record dates will be coming. I don't I don't have anything right now. It's pretty open right now. So but

there are still sessions. And I hear from Luca the time, right and he laments that the days you're talking about the seventies and the eighties are over there over, Yeah, there are over but there are calls still get calls to do what kind of work guitar? I mean, record dates, movie dates, TV dates, all of the above, all the above. I mean I was fortunate. At one point I scored I think it was about ten movies and uh, I

loved it. And Adam Sander gave me the shot at that and I knew Adam because I worked on a record for him a long time ago. Brooks Arthur, his producer, called me and said, would you consider arranging a couple of songs for Adam Sandler? You know comedy rock? I don't know, man, but I went down and met Adam. The song was great. It's called well it became. It came out called ode to My Car, but they made a piece of ship cars and it's hysterical and it's a reggae and he says, I want to do this reggae.

Oh really, Well, let me tell you you called the right person because I can do that for you easily, and and he played me The song was hysterical, and there was another song called Baked, which was hilarious. So we went in the studio and cut these songs and then developed a musical relationship. And next time I know, Adam did a tour. He wanted a tour, so we went out on the road for a summer and it was incredibly funny. And after it, I said, I'm gonna want you to score a movie. I want you to

score film. I'm doing movies now and I want you to score movies. So I started to work on Waterboy and I had to stop on that one various reasons. But then he called me on Joe Dirt. It was the next one for me and I that was my first complete score, and so I did that. I did several others for him, and so there's there's movie work. Hopefully he's away right now, maybe I'll get another score. But I did a couple of independent films as well. But yeah, you never can tell, you know, you never know.

I came back and well of a sudd I got a call that they were doing Joe Dirt too, you know. I went, oh, well, okay, well and there was budget wasn't big, but I said, well I gotta do it. I don't want anyone else to do it, so I'll do it, you know. So I did that. It just happens, so you never know what's gonna happen. You get a call commercial or a song score, but you still believe the phone will ring. Yeah, you're not sitting at home saying again you always think that. I thought that from

day one. And also I'm leaving out a very important part of my musical stuff. Don was. I worked tons with Don at one point during the eighties and nineties, a lot of sessions with Don beautiful. But I mean from day one, you get home staring at that phone, is it ever going to ring again? And it's it's been that way forever, it'll it'll always be that way. And at what point, I mean, once you start to gain a reputation, as I say, are you actively networking?

I'm going back back in the day as supposed to today. Are you hunting for jobs or just waiting for them to come to you? You're waiting. I mean I'm waiting. I'm I think I've called a couple of people say hey, you're working, you know, stuff like that. But no, I think, thank god, people call me. And then, of course you're not gonna want to answer this question, but I'll ask it anyway. If they can't get you, who do they call? Well, you know, it's funny, Lucas, there was the new me.

You know, when I met Luke, he was his baby. They came on board and came into towns on a Richard Perry date and Luke was the new Wady. You know, so who knows? You know, there's so many guys and now it's it's such a closed scene now. And aside from that, people will record at home now, you know, so a lot of times you get a call and you're sitting Leland says, you know, I don't like sitting in the corner of someone's bed and playing the base you but he's right, you know, you wind up doing

some date for somebody in their house. You over. But I was. I was eating lunch somewhere and uh, someone came in and said, are you wady? Yeah, and he says, my name's Jude Cole, and uh, and i'd heard that name and I said, I've heard of you and and he said, I've produced a key for Sutherland and we have no keeper for other and and we're doing a record. And I said, well, like who's playing on it? And he named a few people, and he named Jim Cox, who was my favorite piano player in town. Jim Cox

is playing with you. Well, hell, I'll do it too then, you know. So I came. You know, this was like last year, so you never know what's gonna happen now. And and Keifer was a doll, and the songs were great and Jude is great. We had a ball funny thing with Jude. He used to be an artist himself. Right, So uh, now you also play at the bar down here to on Pico. Yeah, well and not we don't play there anymore, but we did like ten years worth of that, almost almost fourteen years, I think, and that

was just something to do. Yeah, and why did you stop employment? You know, everyone's schedules started yanking people out of town. Next thing I know, I was on the road with Stevie for months. When I get back. My drummer Phil Jones was working with Peggy Young, Rick my latey, late dear friend, Rick Roses was working for Neil. So you'd come back a lot of times. Everyone's schedule was right, We'd all be here for months at a time, so

we could do it. But then it became harder. It's I don't know, we're actually striking it up in August at this place in Ventura Plug Discovery, Ventura August there rock and roll Knight. But and also I've been playing with Danny cor Les Claw and Russ Kunkle and Steve Postela's name is and we did Danny got a record deal. A Japanese label wanted good to do a record, so the you got the old the Brothers together and we did it and Danny said, look, it's gotta be us

to go play this stuff. Can't be anyone else. So we said, yeah, how grew right. We finally get to play in a band together. So that's what we've been doing. So we did that too. We just finished. We just went to Japan and did like ten eleven days there and we just played a club. But schedule wise, now again with schedules, it's tougher. With Russell's ad is in France right now, work up with Cat Stevens and then he's gonna be on the road in August, and then

I'll lose Leland at some point. But Danny and I are writing and Steve and we're writing songs and getting ready for autumn when we're all back together again. So we'll be doing that. So I have the two bands going okay now. In the seventies, in the eighties, before the days of cameras in phones, I would assume being on the road was, shall we say, a lot of fun. Yeah, okay, but those days, granted you're older and you're married, but generally speaking, those days are done for people on the road.

What do you mean? I mean? Uh, the the old dream and this is you know, uh, maybe a sexist dream was the musician has a hard time communicating with people, speaks to his music, goes on the road and meets women, and does drugs. Yeah do you You don't have to do drugs, but you know, but most people did. The reason I say you do drugs is you know, you you play from eight to eleven. It's gonna take you at least if then to three in the morning to calm down. You're in the bus with the same assholes

that you knew from like ten years. You know, you do drugs just a cope. I think a lot of people. But have you found that modern technology has affected being on the road. I mean, granted you're older and you're married, I would say I would tell you this. I would bet you a young band I would see it the same way it always was. That's what I would think. I mean, we're older and we're married, but we you know, we go out. We still have a drink, you know, sit around and talk about the old days or talk

about the new days, and talk about music. It's still music. Speaking of the speaking the old days, I always say, you know, we look at that period from sixty four to eighty and then even MTV after that. Music really drove the culture. If you want to know what was going on, you listen to a record. Radio stations were not like they were today. The radio the jock was giving you all your news, was really your best friend. How do you feel about the music scene today. It's

hard for me. It's hard for me. I wind up. I don't listen to a lot of new music. I hate to sound like an old dinosaur, but I don't hear the kind of melodic music anymore that I grew up knowing that that was how you were supposed to write songs, you know. I mean, it was one thing to go from jazz and standards to all of a sudden there's Beatles and Stones writing great songs, and then everyone else is trying to write great songs. But now the melodic, the melodic approach to songs these days is

very nil, very lack lacking. To me, it's either way too repetitive and simple, and repetitive is a great thing to have. You have to have repetition, but not the way it's done today, or it's way overly exaggerated to where people are demonstrating their wonderful vocal range. Well that that, but even just some of the stuff I have a hard time with with with it. I I love Muse. I think that's a great band, you know, but they're not even new anymore, you know what I mean. It's hard.

It's hard for me. So I don't hear. I listened to a lot of older stuff and the hip hop. You listen to the hip hop, I don't. I don't. I've heard something really dug, you know. And do you have hope or do you think we live through the renaissance and it's not going to return? One never knows, you know, History repeats itself, right, that's what they say. It's been a long time coming. And I don't even

know how that's right, how I could right now? You know, guitars have become almost meaningless and today's records and it's tough, it's it's weird, but it's that it's that song structure that I miss that was so important to us when we were growing up, and that's what it was all about, right in a great tune, you know, someone something that you could sing, you know, instead of some of the stuff that's out there. I don't want to name. I don't want to name anything that's we can fill in

the blanks. Yeah, you know, but I I don't like a lot of what I hear and and I have to agree with Couch about something you said about that that Barnum. I don't dig those songs. I don't let me tell you I didn't. It's funny because when we just went to Japan, right person next to me was watching this movie. I went, what the what does that movie? And I saw Hugh Jackman and it Oh, I see And I didn't watch it, but that's when I first

became aware of it. And then Danny told me about We had back and forth usually Danny O Danny is, you know him much better than I know him. But he can be I wouldn't say contrary, but he's not afraid to show in a little bit of an edge. Yeah, but he's warm underneath. But he stand me right away. There were two things for those people who may not be aware. There's this, you know, movie with the soundtrack

called Greatest Showman. And we are living in a world where if you look at the Spotify top fifty, it's all hip hop. All you read about is hip hop. But this album is unbelievably successful, was number one in UK for twenty one weeks and definitely the best selling album of the year I think in America, even exceeding Drake Now. It is an album, especially the single with the name of which I don't remember they sang on the oscars, I believe has melody in it. It's exactly

what you were talking. It's not exactly, but it has melody, but it's overstated, like wait, wait, say it's this is like writing about Greta van Fleet. If you've heard led Zeppelin you say, hey, this is our SATs By the same token. Then wasn't that amount of communication If you were listening to all the British blues bands of the late sixties or early seventies, people heard the originals this

year Robert Johnson, this is not the same thing. But what I feel, as I'm busy explaining and justifying myself here, I feel with The Greatest Showman. My main point was there's an alternative to what everybody thinks is the default music of today. The act that Greatest Showman is successful shows that there are opportunities for other things, as opposed to me sitting here and saying oh, Greatest Showman is so great. Yeah, well that's true. I can I can

go with you that far. But that's all I meant. You know, as I say, you know you're right. Stuff is one of the problems writing you if you were gonna write I have enough problems with this anyway you're writing it. Oh, this person is gonna have a problem with this, so I gotta add a sentence here, I gotta sence here. It ended up being, you know, everything, where and what. My point was just so to illuminate

that there's a world beyond hip hop. And then when someone slams me Danny, you know, I just written it. You hear from Danny, it's like eleven o'clock at the night here. You never it's like come on. I mean, it's like I just wrote it and you know better. We're on the same team here. But it's you know, and it's always funny in email, because you know, arguments can get really you can. You can misinterpret someone's meanings so quickly in a in a written sentence, instead of

hearing them say it. He was couch was indignant, and my first is said, you're really indignant about this. I mean, as we're sitting here was I talking Sergeant Pepper. It's like, come on. So he was so indignant. I said, fuck you back that I that I did that. You know that we're gonna get email style. I won't say that to somebody I don't know unless I know there's gonna be consequence. I just did that to make him re evaluate where he was coming from, right, not not to

like make him piste off. It's like, come on, but I must say, and I understand what you're saying about. There is a world aside from hipp a grant that that's a very valid observation. But I went and I made a point of it before coming in. I sat down and listened to all those fucking songs in that movie, you know. And like I said, I hate to doubt, doubt or put down anyone's work, any every work. Yeah, well, all good, Well I don't care. I don't care for

that music. Okay. First of all, you probably listen to it more than I did. Secondly, have you seen it with the picture would put it in perspective? Songs? Well the movie. I haven't seen the movie other than snippets here and there. No one seems to think the movie is any good. At the same time of this, this movie next Netflix about a kissing booth, which everybody says is shitty, but it's also a phenomenon, so it's you know this this crosses over to news too. You know,

I'm on the hand. You have the people who were reading these news sites that people make up in their basement, the theoretical forder pound guy that Trump is talking about, and then you have the the big newspapers, and you say, well, what are they missing? But without going deeper into this rabbit hole, which I'd be willing to, but I'm not sure your audience wants to hear it. Are you a gear freak? No, not at all. How many guitars you owned? Well, the guitars aren't gear. You know what I mean it,

I mean, that's what you mean. I I don't own a plethora of guitars like some of my friends do. I have quite a few forty I don't know if I have forty. I have like, I don't know. I have like three J Gibson J two hundreds. I have about four maybe five less Poles. I have a couple of Fender Strats, I have some telecasters. I've got a bunch more acoustic guitars. I've got dough Bro guitar, Hawaiian lap steel guitars. You know what I mean. I don't. I don't have a warehouse full of guitars. Put it

that way, but I don't. I just remember when I played, you know, in the sixties, when everybody played every guitar, even if it was the same model, sounded a little different. Still the same today. Yeah, do you have one particular guitar that your go to guitar? Well, I've came up playing my sixty less Paul. I brought it from Steve

Stills when we first met. Stuff like that, And why was it just had this room full of guitars and and I at that point, I I was still playing my big jazz guitar and not not the L seven. There's this thing called Super four hundred that Frank's Apple was playing when I saw him in the village. It was this big, old fat Gibson. It was gorgeous. I said, that's what I want someday. And uh so when I moved out to California, I got myself Super four hundred and it was great. But what are we talking about

for good? Yeah? So and then we were rehearsing at s I R. And the only people there were Corosi Stills in Nash and my band and I looked in their room and there was like a circle of guitars all around the whole room, and I went, wow, I was thinking less poor again. I was getting sick of the big box. So what, Steve, would you consider selling

one of any one of those guitars? He goes, why don't we just trade rooms tonight, you guys rehearsing our room, and we'll use your room and just try pick whichever

one you want. Really great, man, fantastic. So we did that, and I went through all these less poles and came up with this Sunburst that was just gorgeous, and and I got that one so that I used that on every record I did forever, you know, and I made I used to do what I called my phony steel guitar, and that's how I did a lot of sessions, just plug right into the board. I'm sorry when you said gear Free made like pedals and things like that, because I don't use any but I using any volume pedal

like a steel guitar. But I would plug right into the board and just you know, put some reverb on it and play that way. And uh, that's the first thing I did like on Randy's record, not on short People. That's playing some slide. But there's a single writer in the rain on that great record. And I'm playing my phony pedal steel guitar and it's great. Randy loved it. And but so I used my last pole until it broke too many times and I had to replace it.

And now I played this other three less poll it's it's it's I call it a white one, but it's actually a gold top spray painted white that I just found in this shop one day and it's great. And the road, oh yeah, that goes on the road. My my, My, My original less pole stays home. It's ensured for a lot of bread. It's very valuable and it's gorgeous. And but Gibson made a Waddy walktail model I walktail less pool and they copied my guitar exactly, my sixty. It's

just sunburst and it's beautiful. They did a great job. Okay, So will you play that guitar? Yeah, I use it. Yeah, I got a white one in that one, okay. And then how about amps amp seven using this company called

black Star really sweet sounding amps. I used to play everything and when we did all the records in the in the seventies and stuff, they were music Man was the amp, and that was Leo, that's right, And we had they were small enough to have live in the studio and I'd be here Andrew be here right next to each other, and you have a little baffle in between, and and it was loud enough. But and then I went from those to my marshals and stuff like that.

And and then Fender makes a great ample of vibro king, so I was using that for a while. To this is a current or an old model. It's current is meaning right with the last twenty years. So so I was using that. I was using two of those together, which is enough to like, shave you really loud and very brilliant. Is you're hearing? Yeah? My hearing. I don't know why, but it's okay. You don't have to wear the hearing age or anything. And I'm not that good on I do say what a lot, like like my

father what. But no, my hearing is surprisingly good. I don't know why that is. But so that these black Star amps are beautiful sounding, so I've been used them lately. And then greatest guitarist of all time? Hard to say that one? Who are your favorites? Well, uh starts to jazz Johnny Smith. If you know Johnny Smith, is you know that Johnny Smith was a jazz player who all the other jazz players said he's too corny and he's

too fucking square. But this guy is the most incredible guitar player ever and he wrote And I didn't even know this for years, and it's funny. I just did an interview with the daughter of one of the Ventures and that song walk Don't Run was written by Johnny Smith. And I didn't even I wasn't even aware of it. I had all these Johnny Smith records and one day I was home and and I went, walk Don't Run, And I looked at the Ventures record it says j Smith, Oh,

this can't be. And I went and I played it and it's this beautiful shuffles, really gorgeous little lazz and uh so I asked her, I said, how did the Ventures find that song? And she wasn't even sure that someone just found it one day on a record and thought it would make a good roll. So I thought that started with the ventures. I didn't know that well it did, but it came from this guy, Johnny Smith. So anyway, Johnny Smith was my god like idol. He

was incredible. But Jimmy Hendricks was unbelievable, you know. Jimmy Page is fantastic, Keith is unreal with the best rhythm playing in the world, and and someone amazing leads too, But Mick was Mick Taylor is great. As there's too many guys, it's just impossible to say a favorite. I always thought of the rock guitars, I thought that Jeff Beck was the best. Jeff is great, but he's but Jimmy Page can do amazing things too, So what he is, you know? Well, the only one there was those these

Arms concerts. I don't yeah, you know, let me tell you. It's funny to say that because I had never seen Jeff and I went to that show and there he was planning. He was fantastic and it was great, and I loved that his tone was beautiful. He's doing great. He got a good, good, good applause, you know, And then a few minutes later, Jimmy Page just walked out onto the stage, didn't even have a guitar on. He just kind of came out and Madison Square Garden almost

self destructed. It was like, what's happening? Oh my god? And I could see Jeff backstage was just just been killing himself. What the funk do I have to do to get over well? You know, I thought this was Ronnie Lane of the faces about these benefit concerts, multiple roses, and it had all three of them. Clapton played, Beck played, and Paige played with Paul Rodgers, and and that wasn't in good shape that night either. He was a mess right in l A. I thought that Beck blew him

off the stage. But you know, we saw a different Well, like I said, Jeff played better. But it was like night and day and it was a big bright day. Let me tell you when Paige when Page, he came out on that stage and he was you know, he was just getting over smacked then and stuff. He was a mess, but he was so cool. It was ridiculous. I mean, Jeff is an incredible player, ridiculous. But at the same time as Jimmy Pages trying to get through she got the double neck on trying to get through

stairway to Heaven and it's a mess. And his solos are a mess. His solos on records are a mess. But some of his things that he does are so brilliant. Record but I was gonna say it was at the end of this mess of stairway, all of a sudden the guitar. He just takes the guitar off, and I said, what's he doing? And he just here's the back end of it, and here's the double necks and he picks

it up like this. He grabbed it like this at his like like this and held it like that and it's straight up in his hand, held it like that over the audience just going insane, And so was I look at this guy, where did he learned that? That is the coolest thing I've ever seen? You know, he didn't have to do, he didn't have to play great,

but Jimmy Page is a brilliant guitar player. Well so also he wrote that stuff for the stuff that he didn't introduced it introduced it, and I mean, you know, it's just some of those things that you know over the hills and far away, like acoustic part, What where's that coming from? You know, that's amazing. You know, nobody can come up with stuff like that. I love. I don't know if you know the song Physical Graffiti ten years gone. Damn dam at the end, especially his licks

at the end over that figure, so gorgeous. He's serious, man, Okay, just a couple since we're into deep, I gotta tell you he came to the joint one night. Somebody said, jim just you know what, Come on, you gotta be kidding. He says, no, he's he's outside in the varlt really. So I went out there and I see this white hair and I went, Jimmy, yes, you know he's the gentlest right right exactly. He goes, of course you are? How are you? Man? And I said, oh man, I said,

I'm so thrilled that you're here. Do you do you want to come play with? No, he says, I'm just here to watch, man, I'm just here to watch. It was too much, man, it blew me away. Oh yeah, we have those moments. I won't whip out mind. But it's not quite the same thing. But the one night I spent it was after the uh premiere of It Might Get Loud, the guitar movie You Knows Him and Jack White and the Edge was not there the after party, and people want to talk about he's so gentle. You

can't imagine the same guy with these legendary stories. What about Eddie van Halen, And he's a great player, amazing guitar player. Of records, Any specific records that stick out with you? You say, Johnny Smith in terms of guitar player, Any great records? You say, Wow, this is just you know, my favorite, I mean just anything? Well, I mean yeah, I mean you can start with quarter to three by Garry us Bonds. I mean New Orleans, I should say

not quarter three. Quarter three was great? But remember where you how you how you felt the first time you heard that song, or good vibrations or you know, I want to hold your hand or no. I mean there's countless incredible moments in our lives. We've been so lucky to live and to hear these things. And I don't know, I mean, take it so hard when we put that record out with Keith at first single, Are you kidding me? That's like that's some badass rock and roll right there, man,

that's some fucking serious rocket. Okay, So yout home, do you play music at this point? Well, you know somewhat. My wife plays more records than I. You you know, I on the road, I I play music. I bother people all the time. You know. I have this Marshall's thing. Marshall made this boom box. It's great. So I'm backstage before shows, I'm blast in rock and roll all the time. But at home, my wife takes over on the records.

I'm usually just trying to learn, you know, some Hawaiian stuff, or playing working in my studio, you know, I do a lot of times now you work at home. You know people you're actually recording on home. People say, yeah, how extensive a studio do you have. I have a You couldn't record a whole band in it, let's put it that way, you know, but you could record a couple of guys playing the guitars together, a guitar and bass singer. You know. I don't have a drum room.

It's a workstation where you call it right. And you're pretty savvy with pro tools. I use digital Performer actually, because when I started doing scoring for film pro tools MIDI was not happening at all, and everyone said, no, you gotta use digital Performer, and I didn't know anything about any of it. So performers where I went, and now I'm versed in performers, so I don't feel the need to switch over. And how often will someone just

send you something to say put something on it? You know? Often? I mean I just got done doing that with Holly Knights, a great, great songwriter, and uh, it was funny. I did something for Holly a couple but three years ago, I mean four years ago, and then she wrote to me and said, I've got another song working on it and uh, which could you put some guitars on it? And I said sure, I'd love to her, so I did sent them to her. She said, yeah, it's great,

but it's not quiet this and not quite that. And finally I said, Holly, and it's great. It's great when someone knows what they want. You know, it's either you know exactly what you want or you let someone you trust give you what they want that what they think is right, and it works out both ways. But Holly said it not quite. I said, Holly, why don't you come here because otherwise I'm gonna be sending you stuff for months? You know, why don't you just come here

and we'll just do it together. So she came out to my house and we met. We've we've never met, you know. We we've done it this way, you know. And I worked for Val Garage and several albums for him that way, you know. As a matter of fact, on Keith's last record, I went to New York and played with him on some of it, but on some of it they sent some of the tracks to me and I put stuff on it at my house, you know.

So it doesn't matter where you are so at this late date, anything you want to achieve or do before the grim Reaper shows up, well, I just want to continue being valid musically. And like I said, Danny and Russell and Leland and Postel and myself for this band now, and we've been writing, so writing good songs at this point and being able to perform them would be a great thing. And hearing having people agree it would be a great thing. Getting him heard, which is getting harder

and harder when you're this old. But it's getting harder and harder without making a whole podcast about it. Even if you used to be in the first part of the centry, you made something greater with surface. Now you can do something great and it and it won't surface. It's hard to break through the noise. So if you're doing something and not only the noise, I'm sorry, but

only the amount of output. It's just so much. The barrier to entry is solo, which is why I have a special deal for you to work on The Greatest Showman Too. But send me the contract exactly. It's as I write the songs, we're ready. But it's you know, it's depressing and overwhelming and one of the problems. You know, And there are a lot of people who say, hey, you know all the good stuff, that stuff today as good as it was yesterday ago. No, it wasn't. It's not.

It's like we lived through something. It's like just pulling a record out of my ask like walk Away Renee something you have to hear once. It's got that feeling. Even Pretty Ballerweena also by the Left Bank, it's like, Okay, we can talk about tracks forever. But it's been so great hearing your history and talking about this. Waddy, thanks for coming, my pleasure, Bob, thanks for having me man. I was so glad you asked me to come by. Until next time. It's watery walk tell with me here

on the Bob Left sets podcast. How great was that? I mean, I only knew Watty from seeing him on stage at the Roxy, in Films, etcetera. Hearing all those stories how he made it from there, in this case Queen's Forest Hills. To hear it is just unbelievable for those you live through the era and those who didn't. I'm just sure it was astounding even hearing the story Werewolves of London. So you can email me tell me what you think. Until next time, It's Bob Left Sets

on my podcast, The Bob Left. That's podcast me reas and don't know exactly why must beeds out of the season Dry