Vince Gill

Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bop Left Sets podcast. My guest today is Vince Guilt, was putting out monthly EPs to celebrate his fifty years in the music business. Vince, how good a golfer are you?

Well? I might have tried to play tour golf if I hadn't been a decent guitar player. But I was a little bit better guitar player than I was a putter, so I made the right decision.

Well, how much do you play now? I play all the time.

I've played my whole life since I was a little kid, and played all through school and on the school teams and stuff. And I just had so much more interest, I think, in music than I ever did in sports or any of that stuff. So I chose a path of being a hillbilly singer.

Okay, but how did you get into golf to begin with?

I guess I watched my old man take off on the weekends, you know, and go play play weekend golf with his buddies, and he couldn't break a hundred with a gun to his head. And he took me out when I was probably first, second, third grade, and we played nine holes in a little golf course in some for an area of Oklahoma where the greens weren't even made out of green of grass, they were made out of cottonseed holes. And it was it was pasture pool

Okay.

You belonged to a club, so you can get out several that's by old guitars and club and country club memberships. That's my advice.

How do you decide which course to play, which one I like, which one is not going to be the most crowded, you know, generally is where you turn up? And have you done any golf tourism like going to Scotland to play.

I've never played any golf over there, and I'm dying too. Every time I went over to Europe, it was always for music and it kind of took it, took center stage, and all my spare time would be doing interviews or getting wherever you were going, and I didn't have time to play. But I'm gonna go over there someday on a just a golf trip with somebody's.

And you lived through the revolution from blades to perimeter, waiting on the all of this.

Yeah, you can go in my garage and track back the last sixty five years of golf technology, and it's you know, it's amazing what they can do now. The old guys, you say, you have to dig it out of the dirt, you just have to figure it out by beating balls and stuff. But now, with the technology, then they can help you a whole lot more than they ever could when we were young.

Now, when he passed, it came out that you were friends with Arnold Palmer. How do you become friends with Arnold Palmer?

I don't know, It's just my good fortune. You know, I played with him times. One of my favorite stories is I was playing golf with Arnold in a pro am and we played several times together before. And you know, when you're playing with somebody like that, it's it's pretty it's pretty nerve wracking. But anyway, we had played all day long, and neither one of us had said one

It's part for it.

I hit my ball up there about fifteen twenty feet from the hole, and he hit his up there about twelve fifteen feet and I hit my putt and missed. He looked at me and marked his ball, knocked his end and went, I got you. I said, okay, my favorite beating I ever took.

Okay. What most people don't know is the pros play a totally different game. The way they worked the ball, et cetera. What can you tell us about that?

Well, you know, they a lot of those A lot of those guys told me that they thought I had enough talent to play professionally if I'd have applied to golf what I applied to music.

But I didn't.

I didn't apply to golf what I did to music. And so that was always a pretty neat thing to have happen, is to play with one of your heroes and play well. I got to play with Jack Nicholas one time, and it was the same kind of thing. We got to the last hole and he beat me by a couple of shots. But just to get to hang with him and occasionally get one of them. Is the best feeling in the world.

So who else in the music world is a scratch golfer a good golfer.

God, there's plenty of guys that play well.

You know.

Glenn Campbell was a great golfer, you know, back in the day. And Alice Cooper played a lot of golf. And you know this, when when I found out his real name was Vince and that he played golf, I was a huge Alice Cooper fan, you know, And and funny thing, you know, all these years later, not too long ago, I got to play guitar on an Alice Cooper record. That was thrill of a lifetime because I played a lot of his songs in my garage bands

Well, at this point in time, are most of your friends in the music world or do you have friends you grew up with their friends from country club.

Yeah, I kind of got a little bit of both. You know, I'm a little bit of a chameleon in that. You know, I have a gaggle of friends that play golf. I had a gaggle of friends for a long time that played basketball. I had a gaggle of friends at all played guitar. I got guitar nerd buddies and we go shopping try to find old guitars. And you know, I never met a stranger, and pretty easy to know

Well, are you like Jerry McGuire, where if you're sitting home alone looking at the four walls, you got to make contact, You got to get together with somebody. Or are you more introspective if you're you're good when people are around. But do you need to be around people?

Not necessarily? You know, Amy, my wife, Amy and I are both generally okay with being alone. You know, I'm comfortable in my own skin, and so is she. And we have to divide and conquer a lot of times, and she'll go to her and I'll go to her and we'll both travel and be gone. And it works great, you know, because she's totally okay with with being the only one in the room, and so am I.

So what do you do when you're the only person in the room.

I'm a surfer, A channel surf, a channel surf. I'll play the guitar. Now with these damn telephones, you know, you'll sit there and scroll, and I'm finding a lot of really neat music, you know, just by scrolling different things. I found a kid not too long ago. I don't know if you're familiar with this name, Lamont Landers.

Have you heard of him? No? I haven't.

And it's funny because I found him and he he's a kind of a soul singer, you know, throw back to an old soul singer. And he's just really redheaded, white kid from Alabama and he sounds just like Al Green when he sings. And I'm just kind of it doesn't make sense, you know. You look at this dude and then this voice comes out of him and he can't believe that it's real, but it is. And I

Do you remember exactly how you found about just.

Traveling, I mean not traveling, but just traveling on the on the phone, and and he'd like, he'd say, he'd do something like you see him posts to go. Okay, imagine if Sweet Home, Alabama was old soul and he turned it and oh yeah, I've seen this yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and they they did. He played uh he played the Apollo Theater not long ago and just killed the crowd. They went nuts for this kid, you know, And and he comes out with his red hair and everybody's going

So when you're on the phone, you know, there's many different platforms. Do you go on Instagram, Wheels and TikTok?

Yeah, I'm not a TikTok guy, but I'll get on Instagram and Facebook. And it's hard now there's so many things on there that are's such fabrication, you know, whether it's me and I'm you know, I have stage four cancer, I do this, blah blah, and you see all this stuff.

It's just so so.

Silly and and all that. But you kind of got to wade through that, and you never know what you're gonna find. What's going to be the next little thing that pops up. And I know that when you stop on something, then it starts giving you more and more and more of that that same thing that you stopped and and looked at. But it to me, it's kind of it's a modern day television.

You know.

You get on there and you look around and you find guitar players that you think are great, or you find a singer you think is great, or songwriter you think is great. And I've discovered quite a few people. You know, it's kind of fun to kind of be in the loop on some of these young people that people are crazy about.

What do you think about people I'm your contemporary. What do you think about people our age who are so social media averse, who hate these platforms.

Well, here's the funny thing. I've never sent a text, So I am not really you know, gen z or whatever you want to call it, an hip on all the on all this technology. I don't know how to run it. I don't know how to get on it. My buddy Matt here takes care of the studio. He has to come solve all my problems when the phone doesn't work and I can't fix any of it.

But I don't care.

You know, I'm not a I'm not the kind of guy that projects what I think other people should should do. You know, if you want to sit on your phone all day and text and stay stay connected. And I'm not going to post what I had for lunch. I'm not gonna you know what I mean. And and so I remember years ago I met a young girl at at a restaurant and she said, you're Vince Gill, aren't you. And I said yeah. She goes, you mind if we

And so I'm.

I'm not not all about it, but I don't you know, I don't give a rip if somebody wants to live their life on that phone.

But you have kids, A lot of kids not only won't talk on the phone, they won't let you leave a voicemail, exactly right.

And I remember I caught our kids one night texting each other at the dinner table.

I said, this is pretty weird.

And they all know that if they want to talk to me, they have to call me. No, I'm not going to respond to a text instead a text.

And what about the reverse? If you want to get a hold of them, I call them and they'll pick up. They either have to pick up or they don't have to talk to me. It works works great either way. Okay, so you're surfing on your phone and you find something good used to be there was a threshold someone had a deal with the record labeled someone should not. Now they're all these acts, you know. Sometimes I'm listening, like

Well, I think just if it connects to me. You know, I've always been a responder of music. You know, I love what music makes me feel. I really have always been drawn to the melancholy side of music. I like sad songs. I like great singers, I like great musicians. You know, when I was young, I didn't really set out to be an artist, you know, I set out to be a guitar player, and I set out to be one of those guys that got called to play

Okay, tell me more about liking melancholy songs. I don't know. They stir more emotion up in me. You know.

My father used to sing a song to me when I was a little boy, and it always made me cry. Every time he sang it didn't make me cry. It's called Old Shep if you've never heard, it's an old folk song. It's about a boy and his dog and they grow up together. They're best friends. The dog saves him from drowning dog saves him from all kinds of peril. And at the end of the dog, at the end of the song, the dog grows old and the guy has to shoot his beloved animal. And it's the most

You know.

I remember so many of the first records I ever got. Last year, I think it was years year and a half ago. I think it was when they had a memorial for Jimmy Buffett out in LA and the Eagles were going to back up Paul McCartney, you know, and I was in the band, and so I was singing the song for us to learn it at soundcheck and it was let it Be. And it dawned on me as I'm singing it, I said, this is the song that was playing the first time I ever had a slow dance with a girl.

Wow, And it was so cool.

And then we're getting ready to do the show and we're doing soundcheck and Paul's not there yet.

So I tell the crew.

They said, go ahead and sing it, and I go, okay, But if Paul comes, I don't want to be singing his song if he shows up, and so lo and behold. I told the crew, I said, tell me if he shows up, and I look over and I'm in the middle of singing let it be. And there he is sitting there with his arms folded, you know, and I'm going, oh, no, you know. And he comes over and he gives me this big hug and he said, man, I believe you sing that song better than I do. And I said, oh, no,

I look at it with.

A complete kind of unbelievable response to it all, not like I expected any of it. I don't know if i'd have done it, if I'd have known how it turned out, you know. I like just discovering what happened. I like finding out who was on the other end of a phone call. Remember years ago, I got a phone call and this was at a period of time where they were kind of they were kind of stopping playing my records on current country radio, and I knew I wasn't going to have hits anymore.

So I'm kind of in this period.

What I didn't know what was next in the phone rang and it was another Englishman that was Eric Clapton. He said, Vince, he said, I'm having it. He said, this is Eric Clapton. I'm going, yeah, sure it is. Who's yanking my chain? Who's branking me?

You know? And he's laughed.

He goes, no, it really is me. And he said I'm calling because I'm doing a guitar festival in Dallas. This has been twenty two years ago now something like that, And he said I want you to come. He said, I'm only inviting guitar players I like, And just hearing those words from him was like this validation and affirmation of a lifetime of trying to do it, you know, And what was beautiful was he saw me That's what

It's unbelievable. Let's stay with the melanchol you mentioned Clapton the second Queen album, Disraeli Gears second side opens with tales of brave Ulysses. There's a certain darkness. It's like I watch a lot of streaming television. You watch the British shows. They just have a dark, melancholic feel. And I don't know, maybe it's a cinematographer, but let me try to slice and dices a little bit. Hey, A lot of that when we were growing up was based

Probably not much, you know, I think you wind up having your tribe. You know, you have your people that tend to like the same things you do, like the same music you do. And even going back to I mean, I've five or six years ago I lost my oldest and best friend, a guy named Benny Garcia, who we met in the summer of sixth grade, and he was

This is you know, the guy passed, And that's much more important than the question I'm gonna asked, but I got to ask it. Anyway, you hire your friend, how do you decide what to pay them?

Well, what everybody else got, you know, I was I have a long history because I was a side man, because I was in a band, because of all of those things, I took care of my people. You know, in my heyday this is unheard of. But in my heyday of doing really well and playing arenas and selling out places, I had to deal with all my guys. I said, I'll have a bonus structure, a bonus system in place that if I do better, you will too. And it created loyalty, it created longevity. It just it

And I think.

Nashville has probably always had a hard time doing that and that there wasn't that much money in it to begin with, so everybody had to go maybe as bare bones as they could. And oftentimes I would tell a musician, I said, this is what I'm making, this is all I have, but you're entitled to a fair portion of it. And so it just it was the way I experienced my career and my life as as working for somebody else. And it's the way that I lived my life as

Maybe you should, Okay, going back a couple of minutes, you talked about the period when the hits evaporated. How did you metabolize that? How did you handle it emotionally? Well, it was easy in that I knew it was coming. You know.

I tell every kid that comes to town and starts hitting the lick and starts kind of getting fired up, I always tell them, I said, now listen to me, and listen good. I said, they quit playing Elvis Presley, and they'll quit playing you just be ready for it. And it's kind of been the truth. You know, nobody survived it their whole career. There's been a period of time where somebody caught fire and stayed on fire.

For a pretty good while. And then it's the way it should be. You know.

It has to evolve and the next generation has to take the mantle and go and do what they want to do and be who they want to be and write the songs they want to sing, and play like they want to play, and it's the way it should be. So it was never it was never much of an issue. And the other thing that was good was I had plenty of years of struggling trying to be an artist. You know, in the early eighties, I got a record deal and then tell people, so I couldn't really prove

You know.

It's it's not easy to to react to struggling. It's easy to react to success.

That's not hard.

But I learned a whole lot more about struggling than I did by succeeding.

Are you as even tempered as you come across or do you get angry and we just don't see it.

I'm a hot head on the golf course, you know, And that was it was interesting. That's the reputation I've I've earned and deserve, you know, as a club breaker and a club thrower and really oh yeah, yeller and screamer and all that stuff. And it's my whole life

He goes.

All your buddies, all your tour player buddies, they all give you down the road about about getting mad and stuff. He said, But let me tell you. I'm going to tell you some stuff that you've probably never heard in your life before.

He said.

First of all, all those guys are way worse than you've ever been with getting mad and losing it and all that said, they have learned to control it because that's their job, that's their workplace, and it's detrimental to them if they don't, you know, act accordingly, he said,

He said, then, think about what you do for a living. He said.

You stand up in front of people, you play, you sing, and all you ever receive is adelation. He said, that's so abnormal. There's nothing more abnormal than that.

He said.

So I'm going to tell you, and probably only you, that I think is really healthy for you to beat yourself up. He said, if you need to go off in the woods, break a club and call yourself dirty names, go ahead and do it. So it's going to keep you level and amy. When we first met, she kind of had the same comment to me, which was kind of life changing. I don't get I don't get too uptight anymore. I'm sixty nine and I don't, you know, kind of lost the ability to care that much about what I shoot.

And uh.

We were playing one day and we weren't married yet, and I hit a shot and I was unhappy and I broke my three wood when I stuck it in the bag. She turned around and was shocked, and I said, man, I'm sorry. I get a little lamped up at this game. She goes, Oh, that doesn't surprise me. I said, what do you mean? She goes, well, she said, you know I'm crazy about you? And I go, yeah, vice versa, And she said, who laughs harder at chokes than you do?

Well, Amy has your number. But does that temper ever come out in everyday life? Not too much.

We have the we have the sweetest relationship and it never never gets never gets weird. You know, it never gets you know, when we first got together, you know, we got getting ready to get into it about something, and I just said, hey, I said, before you say something, I said, just let's just take a minute and be still. She goes, what do you mean. I said, well, I know you're mad at me and I deserve it. Blah blah blah. You're going to say something that's going to

You're you're good.

And I told her, I said, look, I don't I don't have any angst about the past. I don't want to try to fix my relationship with my father. I don't want to try to fix this. And that, I said. I'm just I'm kind of okay with being exactly who I am and uh, prey straight ahead. And so she told me I was good.

Okay, let's go back to the anger. You said, you said two things. Want to focus on this. You said, I want to prove myself. What do we know? First, the average person has no idea how hard it is to make it. Talent is in most fifty percent, it's unbelievably hard. So when you get your chance, you want to deliver. Or you also might say, by luck, I'm here and I want to prove myself. How much of that is involved?

Well, I think every time I sing a song, every time I play a song, I've never phoned it in. I've never nonchalantly just gone through the motions. I want to play and sing. Every time I play and sing. The best I've ever done it, you know, And that's I think because of the gift I've been given, that's what it deserves. And so you know, I'll sit here in the studio and play something good. I said, what could be better? I think it could be better. If I played two less notes, it might speak more. It

I have to.

I have to speak up on every single thing, because I find music a great place for democracy. In the studio with five, six, seven guys, you're all in there with the common goal of making a song great. You don't care who gets all the attention. You don't get here, who gets the to be the loudest, who gets to be noticed the most? And if you'll just serve the song, you'll serve each other and listen to each other and let everybody shine. That to me is what democracy was

Are like minded and.

Listen to each other and play well together. And it's so much fun to watch something turn up, to see something be born, you know, and then have a life that gets to live forever.

Okay, you were talking about your goal was not perfection. Okay, you know music is not digital zeros in ones. It's organic or at least the kind of music we're talking about. Ay, do you know when it's magic? And is that what you're searching for? Let me just go a little bit deeper. You're playing with professionals in Nashville. They can nail it. Okay, you can say this is your song, But are you searching for that moment when the hair starts to go up on your arms? Well?

Yeah, And the great thing is is everybody can feel it, and everybody knows it, and everybody knows when it's finally got the the groove, the pocket, the field, everything.

That that stirs up in emotion.

You know, a lot of things that are just flat lined perfect are not emotional, you know, And so that's I think what everybody's trying to go trying to do is I want to play something. It inspires the piano play to play the next thing, And what the piano player plays inspires the other guitar player to play the next thing. And that's what you're kind of always going for. You know, don't ever take me out of the dance. Don't ever take my attention away from a great singer singing a great song.

You know.

That's the point of it all is to serve that that that that process. And when somebody I heard somebody say, don't whatever you do, let the main thing be the main thing, stay out of the way.

Okay. So let's assume you're recording in the studio and you have to your guitar player. You have to do with solo? Do you always make it up on the spot or do you think about it in advance.

It's I would say, it's a combination of a lot of things. When I'm playing, what in my head is going on is how would I sing this? So I'm letting one thing that I can do inform another thing that I can do. So when I'm trying to play a solo, I go, okay, how would I phrase this? How would I sing this? And then when I'm singing, I asked myself, Okay, how would I play this? And each one informs the other. And once again, you're trying

Okay. You talked about the process, the democracy, etc. You know, Back in the old Mono days, everybody played it once. Certainly, by time we're hitting the seventy sixteen to twenty four tracks, you're building it track by track. A how do you do it? And B? When you build track by track, how do you maintain the organic effect?

Well, I mean the technology is obviously evolved. You know, they've been making country records now for one hundred years and they don't make them today like they used to. They don't do anything like they used to do. And I think technology is a fantastic thing if you use it for the right reason. You know, it's all a

And I like that.

I like that thought, you know, I like I like hearing something and go that may be about as good as I can do, and that speaks to me, maybe I could do it a little bit better, do this, do that. But you know, part of the part of the joy is the minutia. And I may be the only one that notices that I took one note out, or that I took one word out, or that I sing this note longer than maybe I would have or whatever.

Okay, would you rather work in the studio or go on the road? Leaving the traveling out?

You know, they're both the same. I love playing live because it's live, because it's in the moment and there is no fixing it, there is no going back and trying it again. It's just the moment, and that's the way I live my life. I love living in the moment. I'm really comfortable living in the moment. I don't look ahead, I don't look back with regret, and I just am grateful for the moment I have. Tomorrow's not promised, and so I just accept this moment for what it is

You know.

Nowadays what's interesting about playing live. Everybody's got a phone, So every time you play, you have to deliver because they're going to go share it, they're gonna go post it, they're going to go put it out there. And so there's now a different kind of constant pressure about playing live that there never used to be. You know, you

To make the.

Effort to film what you're saying live, because then you're missing the experience of the liveness of what it is that you're there to see. And I don't think I've ever filmed anything in my life of something live, musical. I just want to be in the experience of it and in the middle of it.

Well, you know, in the technological age, certainly when we were growing up, the acts were gods. There used to even be seats in all these places. Now they make you stand in many of them, and it was all focused on the act. Today, talking generally that I'll get specific frequently. The audience is a star. They're going to shoot selfies with each other. Oh yeah, they want to have the artifact that here's a video. I was there? Is that palpable from the stage?

Oh it's you know, when we've been doing this sphere now for a little over a year and a half, I think, and we've done fifty eight shows in there, and people ask me all the time, you know, they said, what's it like playing the Sphere? And I jokingly, and I mean jokingly, I don't really mean this seriously, but I said, it's the most people I've ever been ignored by. And it's true, but it's kind of the way it should be.

You know.

The whole spectacle of that visual is it's unlike anybody's ever seen. You try to explain it to your friends that are going to come out and see a show.

What's it like?

Oh man, you're not going to believe it. It's so much bigger than you could ever imagine.

You know.

We went to see The Wizard of Oz not too long ago, Amy and I when I was out there for a couple of Eagle shows, and it was so impact full to see the magnitude of that movie in the sphere. But then what was beautiful about it was seeing something so innocent in this day and age of they're not being very much out there, that's very innocent. We both got weepy here and Judy Garland sing Somewhere over the Rainbow with one hundred and sixty seven thousand speakers.

It's just.

Pretty amazing to get to experience at night after night and hear Desperado then here take it to the Limit, and here Lion Eyes and here.

You know, it's just it's astounding.

And I love it, And I don't know if We're going to do some more shows at the Sphere, but we'll see.

And it's been a blast, okay. Joe Walsh was ill and you saying life's been good. A before you played with the Eagles. Did you know the song? Of course when you heard it every night? Yeah, you're there, you're playing when you actually sang it. Did you have a teleprompter? Of course?

I always have. I told Donna said, I'm gonna have to have a teleprompter. You guys have sung Lion Eyes for fifty years.

I haven't.

There's nine verses, so I'm going to need a telephone. I used one, but that night, you know, I remember when Joe got sick on the Friday night the night before. He was kind of coming on and off stage and taking oxygen and struggling, and so we got done. And the next morning Joe had to go to the hospital and we knew he wasn't gonna play. And Don called and said, men, you think we can work up three or four year songs? And I go, man, we don't have any content for them on the on all the

Okay, it's the sphere, as you say, being ignored, but the stage is low, it's almost like a high school saha, And there was a guy on the floor that really was catching your rye and affecting your emotions.

I could hear him, yeah, I mean he was mad. I mean we when we played, we play about three songs and then Don comes out to talk and welcome everybody, and and it was obvious that Joe wasn't there. We started with Hotel California, and Deacon covered and did a great job. And uh so Don's walking out, and this guy over to my.

Right goes, where's Joe. You know, he's not.

Happy, And Don looked over and at him and through the microphones says, shut up, and I'll tell you.

He didn't take anything off of anybody. And I love it.

But uh and then he was you know, I could hear him over there. And finally somebody, the security, you know, finally says, you know, you you kind of have to shut up or.

You're gonna have to go.

And and a friend of a friend of mine that I had breakfast with was sitting right behind it. That morning, I'd had breakfast with my friend and he was sitting right behind this guy. And he finally grabbed a guy and said, if you say another word, I'm taking you out of here. Myself and all of that, and it finally, it finally simmered down. But you know, it wasn't it wasn't a whole lot different than the first night I

Going to be okay. It's going to be okay.

And you know, I've had detractors the whole time and will and I expect it and.

Well, wait, wait a second, s it's the Eagles, I know. No, no, what I mean by that is, was it like the dude in that movie The Eagles have the biggest selling album of all time. It's like it's like Windows versus you know, mac Ows. The people who are negative, you know, they have passions about it. Yeah, I get it, you know.

And I told people when I first started talking about I go look, I don't want to hear me sing new kid in Town either, you know, But that's that's the option. That's what we're left with. And the way I've always kind of reacted to getting to do that. You know, I'm beyungrateful that I was the guy they called to come and do that, but the only reason I got to do it was because of a tragedy.

Alive, but he's not.

And and so hopefully this is this is an acceptable option, you know, And with most people it's been okay, Well I.

Was there, and I understand what you're saying, but you know, it's kind of like dead End Company. Dead End Company. There's a lot of heretics, but they were tighter than the Grateful Dead and that night, you know, the band maybe because they knew they had something to prove. It was actually a step up from what it had been, you know, prior to your tenure. But how did you find out they were interested in you filling the rule? Was it one and done? Did they call and say, hey,

I remember when I did Kennedy Center honors for the Eagles, when they were honored, and I think I sang peaceful, easy feeling and some of life in the fast lane and maybe something else, And that might have been the moment where Don might have been sitting there going, hey, this guy might work. Don told me, he said, you're one of the only people I even consider doing this with,

You know it?

It was a no brainer. You know my favorite and you know easily, and I got tapes of me as fifteen year old kids singing their songs, and I tell people, I said, I was in pure Prairie League, but I wanted to be in the Eagles. So yeah, it was It was a very easy, yes, you.

Know, and and.

And the premise was early on, let's just do a few shows and see how everybody takes it, you know, And everybody was kind of okay with it, I think audience wise, their fan fan base wise and them and and you know, I'm kind of of a village idiot. I'm cutting up all the time and cracking jokes, and I keep it pretty light. So I'm a good bit different than maybe what they've experienced in the past with the drama.

Irrelevant of what you play in the set, what are your two favorite Eagles songs?

I would probably say Desperado's my favorite.

In that.

When I first started playing with them, I asked, I said, okay, shoot me straight. I said, what's the first song you and Glenn ever wrote? And he smiled and said Desperado. I said, no way. I said, you got to be bs and me. You had to write some average songs before you wrote Esperando. And he started laughing, No, that's the first song we ever wrote. And so I said, moy, you talk about meant to be so that one is

Walk away being grateful. I walk away.

Learning how important songs are again, you know, and why they're them is because their songs are so good, you know.

And I just.

Hope that they walk away being feeling the same way that they were. They feel good about asking me to come do it with them.

Okay, you talk about glenn and Don writing that National's famous for its writing sessions. There's Lennon and McCartney. Although it came out one person would write more than the others, it went on what's your feeling about writing in terms of collaboration.

I enjoy it, you know, I enjoy seeing you know, I think oftentimes I've written plenty of songs that have been successful by myself. I've written plenty of songs with other people that have been successful, and vice versa.

You know.

I remember there's a great joke about Roger Miller. They asked him one time, they said, did you ever? Do you ever co write? Did Picasso ever co paint? And so there's been a lot of people that weren't for it, that didn't do it, and I always enjoyed it. I enjoyed the process. I enjoy making a new friend. I enjoy keeping an old friend.

You know.

I got people I've written songs with for forty five years that I still write songs with, you know, and always will. And brand new people kids that come along that have an act for it and have a gift for it, and you know, two three heads or sometimes maybe better than one.

Okay, But if you're writing alone, ay, do you take it as work like I got an album and I got to have songs or are you waiting for inspiration? And do you find qualitatively the stuff that's written on inspiration different or better than the stuff that you're grinding it out.

I think I'm a way different songwriter at sixty nine than I was at twenty nine in that I'm willing to wait for it. In those early days, I might not have been willing to wait for it. When I first started playing with Pure Prairie League, I was god. I think I was twenty two twenty three years old. I was very young. I'd only written seven songs in my life and I joined that band. They didn't have any songs, and we're going to make a record, and they said, do you have any songs? And I said,

You don't need to. Well that's good. I think that's great. But you could.

You could try and try and try again. I'm in here all the time, like singing a vocal on a song I wrote, and I'll go, I don't like that line that doesn't sing well, so I'll rewrite it and find words that sing better, you know, And and all those things are a part of the process, and just always being willing to edit yourself. You know, I think writing a song is no different than writing a book or a story in a newspaper or a review or

You know?

The story is told because gosh, you're right, I said, Merul Haggard did pretty good with only writing one verse to a whole lot of songs. And you know, guys like Rodney Crowd, Guy Clark, those are the guys that helped teach me to not overdo it, to be willing to only say what's necessary. There's a word in there that doesn't have the story it has to go, you know. And so I think, more than anything, you know, the

Okay, you're growing up in Oklahoma in the sixties and seventies. Are you a rock guy or a country guy? Both? I was.

I was a chameleon in that I was the youngest in my family. So when I was growing up, before I could buy my own records, I had my mom and dad's records, which were primarily country. My dad liked big you know, singers like uh he like Eddie Arnold, somebody like that, like crooner's stuff like that. My big brother loved the blues, my sister loved pop music, rock and roll, and I was drawn to bluegrass and country

I liked the.

Merle Haggard and Twang Years stuff more than the smooth stuff. You know. I liked it, but that had that edge to it, that drive to it that some of it didn't, you know. And I think country music in its history has always done this pattern of evolving in that sometimes it felt like it was embarrassed to be what it was, so it tried to go emulate pop music. It tried

Okay, so I'm growing up in the Northeast. You know, there's a lot of political division in the country now, but there's more homogenization than ever before. A you're growing up in Oklahoma, I'm growing up in Connecticut and the New York radio market. There is no country music. Of course, of course there's Charlie Rich who crosses over the most beautiful girl in the world every once in a while.

Yeah, we sure did. And you know, the Grand Old Opry. A lot of people don't realize the intention of the Grand Old Opry when it started one hundred now one hundred. It's in his one hundred and first year of being on the air. In nineteen twenty five. It started, and it was an insurance company whose moniker was WSM, which stood for We Shield Millions. It's an insurance company, and their premise was when they started broadcasting music on the radio, was to find a way to appeal to rural people

Go, I'm all about that. That's pretty cool sounded. So when did you start to play, and did you start on the piano or on a guitar.

I started. I don't remember not playing, so I can't lay claim to say. And I started playing guitar when I was seven. My mom has a picture of me and sleeping on the couch, face down. I'm about a year and a half, maybe two years old, and I'm asleep on the couch and I have my arm around a little, tiny parlor guitar. So I knew I was

So you didn't go to college, but your father was a judge. What do you say about that?

Well, because he was a musician. I think I fulfilled some of his dreams by going off and playing music. And I remember my mom got interviewed some years back and they asked her the same question. They said, did it bother you that your son didn't take a more traditional, you know route and go get a good education and get.

A good job. And she say, no, I didn't bother me.

She said, I didn't care anything about having a rich kid, but I sure cared about having a happy kid. That music always made him happy. She would tell stories about me coming home being mad about losing a baseball game or this and that and kicking my way upstairs and muttering and being mad. She said, about ten minutes of playing that guitar and you were fine. So it was like the best friend I ever had, that guitar.

Okay, are you self taught completely? Pretty much?

I took some lessons from a guy in Oklahoma City when I was probably in junior high school maybe, and he didn't teach me a lot, you know, he just would show me songs, but most of the time he would smoke a cigar and talk on the phone during my lesson. Yeah that sounds good, Keep keep playing that, you know, and he just you know, interrupted his phone calling play that again, you know.

And I learned.

I learned a few songs from going to take lessons from him. But my ears were really the gift of gifts and that they heard what it was that I needed to do, and they informed me, they taught me, and just repetition. I mean, we didn't have the Internet to look at and the YouTube to look at and see how so and so played that lick.

You know.

We had to dig it out of the out of our brains. And I remember years ago I was playing a show with James Burton, great guitar player, played with Elvis, Ricky Nelson and Emmy lou and one of my telecaster heroes. And we were playing a song that I'd heard him play a thousand times and I looked over and he's playing it. I go, oh, he's playing it on the third and fourth string, not the second and third strings. And I heard it and I'd played it on the

Okay, I'm a little older than you. I remember the early sixties folk boom. Everybody got a nylon string guitar, sing Peter Paul and Mary the Beatles, hit. Everybody got an electric guitar, formed band? You're playing guitar? What's the next step? Are you playing at school assemblies? Do you form a band? How does it go well?

I think the first place I went and played was it in grade school. They let me come over and I played the House of the Rising Sun. And so I'm in grade school. I'm singing, singing songs about catouses or whatever, and I knew the die was cast and I was meant to be a hillbilly singer. And and then I got into uh seventh grade, and my friend Benny and I we had a little trio and we were learning Sunshine of Your Love, anything that was going on in the day, and and and playing, and so

Okay, nice guitar.

So I had a great instrument to learn on, you know. And and what was your ramp? I had a Fender Super Reverb. I had high tools, you know, And I had no idea at the time, but anyway, we started playing those garage bands. And then when I was about uh fifteen or sixteen, I went out. I had broken a string on my father's banjo, and I didn't know how to fix it, and I knew I was going

Just loved flat.

Picking and hearing guys like Clarence White, Tony Rice, all these great musicians. Sam Bush had new Grass Revival going. Then I was in another band in high school called Mountain Smoke, and that's the first record I ever made. I was seventeen and they decided to make a record, and we made a record. And I'm driving through Oklahoma City one day and lo and behold, one of the radio stations played a song that I played banjo on and sang. I was the lead singer on that particular song.

And so it was.

It was amazing that the first record I ever made got played by somebody, and it gave me this really beautiful sense of hope. If you try, maybe you never know, you know. And so that hope has never really dwindled and never faded. And I still, you know, every time I write a song or make a record, I hope somebody responds. Doesn't have to be a lot. Okay, so

Okay, you grew up in Oklahoma, so they say the internet works everywhere, cable TV, whatever, But that's not the era you and me grew up in. You've been around the United States. What's the difference between Oklahoma and other places.

Well, golly, you know, Oklahoma's not southern. It's not the South, it's not the it's not the West, it's not the Northeast. It's it's an area that I think people understood how hard work was the only way to make it work, you know. And they dug a living out of the dirt. They were very practical. They were common sensical. Everything I did when I was a kid with my mom and dad, if it better make common sense, or you were going

You know.

I left the long time ago. I was only there for eighteen years. But when I go back and I get my feet in that red dirt across the borderline and get into where I'm from.

It just there's a.

Feeling like I can't explain, just you know, Ani M said it there's no place like home, or Dorothy said it wasn't any m.

Well, how did your family end up in Oklahoma?

I think my dad my mom was born in Kansas, just farm country and grew up on a farm and watched them go through hard times, depression and dust bowl that kind of stuff. They knew hard times. And my dad, I think was born in that was actually born in Kansas, and my mom's mother, my dad's mother actually knew each other in Kansas and wound up in Oklahoma after they got married. And I don't know all the details, but my mom was married once prior to me being born to my dad and had my brother Bob in her

Okay, So now you're living in Nashville, you're playing in the Bluegrass Alliance. Let's be clear, it's country, but it's still sex, drugs and rock and roll A. To what degree was that appealing? B to what degreed did you experience? And see what was your viewpoint on all of that?

Well, I like two out of three. I never You know what's funny, I never did any drugs. I've never smoked pot. And most people hear me say that and don't believe it. My own my own son Matt, when Amy and I got married, he said to me one time, he goes, you smoke a lot of dope, don't you. I started laughing. I go, dude, I've never smoked any dope. He goes, I think you're high right now, I said,

And it was.

I saw what that could do. So I think that subliminally it might have kind of led me down a path that I didn't want to. I didn't want to take that chance. I didn't want to cause that kind of hurt and my folks and disappointment and whatever. And so I jumped in with both feet and I, you know, I experienced a good life, you know, and I don't regret any of it, even the mistakes I made. I'm willing to accept them because I learned something.

Okay, you're going to school. There are some people who go to school. They're the life of the party, they're the quarterback on the football team, they have sex, et cetera. And there are other people on the other end of the spectrum. You go on the road to what degree are you sexually experienced and to what degree do you handle you know, the nature of you're on stage. There are people who are attracted to that. That's just you don't have to do much of anything.

So what was your experience, Well, it was it was intense in that it was a it was a free stretch of life and anything went, and I went with anything went, you know, and and all of that, and I don't know just kind of the way it was, you know, and you just just accepted whatever, you know, kind of anybody was willing to want to do.

I guess, you know. I I part I partook plenty and had.

A had a crazy life at times, but it was never never the center of everything. You know, It's oftentimes where you'd like things to wind up, but it was still focused on playing, focused on going to hear some great music at a club, focused on listening to a new record somebody made. I love the years that I lived in California. I moved out there and when I was nineteen, end of nineteen seventy six and just loved being near the ocean and being around the musicianship that

You know.

I liked trying to play soulful guitar and ben strings and those things. I like country picking guitar, chicken picking guitar, I liked flat picking guitar, I liked I liked all of it. Liked R and B, I liked soulful stuff, and so man, I just all I ever wanted it to be was authentic with whatever I was doing. If I was singing a soul song, I wanted soulful people to think, Hey, that guy's a soulful singer.

You know, Okay, you've been should struggle earlier. Some people live somewhat of a charm life, but most musicians it's not a root straight to the top. So once you start playing as a professional and you moved to California. Are things falling in place? Or are you frustrated now?

It was generally I always felt good about what I was doing, you know, and even if I was in a supporting cast role and not the focal point, that didn't bother me. I like just being part of the process. And I think that when I first started making my own records as a solo artist, I struggled, but I didn't mind struggling because I didn't have to be successful

You know.

It eventually happened, and I was grateful when it finally did, but it didn't. It was not the reason. You know, And I don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but when I was young, I was the one that studied the back of records, who played on this I would buy. I would buy albums from people I didn't even know who they were because I saw a guitar player I admired that maybe played on that record, so well, maybe

Okay, okay, wait, you're talking about when they go on the last tour. Yeah.

And and he came to see me play in New York City and he called me and he goes, hey, would you have any interest in coming and being in dire Straits. We're going on this world tour. And and you know, I'm struggling to pay for the house. It would have solved every financial problem I had. And at the same time, I was changing from RCAA Records to MCAA Records. I was going to go to work with my old friend Tony Brown, and I was being given

Let's go back a step. How'd you end up in Pure Prairie League, and what were your thoughts. It is a band that had one Well, there's basically the same songs, two songs falling in out of Loving Amy that were never really singles, and the guy who wrote it was no longer in the band exactly. So how did this come to be and what were your thoughts about it? Well?

I first met those guys when I was in high school and our band that I was in, Mountain Small, opened a show for them, and when they played in Oklahoma City in probably nineteen seventy four, and Amy had all of a sudden caught fire. You know, the original story of Amy. It was recorded in the early seventies, and then the band was dropped from the label and Craig had gone on to moved to Canada and left

Okay, Traditionally country has not been a catalog business. It's all been new frontline stuff. But in the Internet era, everything's completely different because everything you ever made is available at this late date. To what degree are your royalties significant from both publishing and now granted you did not only write songs for your own records, but in terms of record royalties and publishing royalties, how are those streams?

I would think they're probably a good bit less than they used to be, but I would, you know, it'd be hard to compare because I haven't had a big number one record in twenty five years, twenty six years, something like that, so what I would know is minimal. I do know that it's the royalty rate. The digital royalty rate is somewhat unfair, you know, in comparison to

Do you still own all your rights? Pretty much?

I partnered up with a guy named Jody Williams not too long ago, and like I said, the hit records had kind of faded away, and he called me one and I'd never had a publisher. I published myself because I had a place for all my songs and didn't see the need to split the money. And I wasn't keen on really pushing my songs to other people, and so I just kept them for myself and recorded him and had a great run and did well. But he called me four or five years ago and he said,

For a while?

I said, sure, it sounds like fun. And I'd known him for forty plus years and was a great friend. And so that turned into man a treasure trove of me being creative and writing a bunch of new songs.

I wrote.

I've probably written one hundred and fifty hundred and seventy five songs in the last four or five years, and I've got to telling myself, well, you should. You should get busy and put some of this stuff out, you know. So everybody likes a lot of content these days. And so I went in and I recorded over seventy songs and found a way to put them all out with these EPs. I'm doing an EP a month for a year, and it's the most creative stretch I've ever gone through.

Okay, so the EPs are coming out once a month, but all the stuff on the EPs was recorded in that seventy song burst, yes, sir, So nothing beyond that. It's just a matter of putting it out this way.

Yeah, I try to stay ahead of the next EP, you know, Like I've got six of them out. I just finished last week mixing number seven. It's coming out May eighth, and so I just keep myself ahead of the next one coming out. And I'm loving the process. I'm working harder than I've ever worked, probably in my life. But at this point I realized I don't have as much time to be creative left as I've had to this point. So it matters so much more to me

To what degree do you view these because you set it up, you're working with the gentlemen publishing. To what degree do you see them as publishing demos or as songs themselves?

I see them as masters. They're being released by MCA Records, and I signed a lifetime deal with them not too long ago.

They win What the hell is a lifetime deal?

They just said, we want you for the rest of your life. If you have something you record you want to put out, we want to be the ones to put it out. And it's to me, it's a testament to the loyalty we've had for each other for thirty seven years.

Now. You know, okay, you know in California there's a question of legality. You signed a piece of paper, say I, then skill and betrothed to MCA Records till if pass pretty much.

But they but they also have in there that if if they don't want to put it out, you can do whatever you want to with it. So it's more than fair and more than reasonable. And I don't know all the detail. I played the guitar. My dad was a lawyer, but I wasn't.

Let's go back. We were talking about the royalties and you said you weren't sure. Are you just being evasive or are you no? You don't really know where your money is and.

What's going on to a point, but I know what I don't know, you know, and I know I don't know a lot about the financial world. And I'm not an investor. I don't play the stocks, I don't do anything risky. I'm just grateful for the money I've made playing music. Well, who's managing your money. Then I've had the same same business manager for forty two years now.

Well, I mean, the money can't sit in the bank. You're losing money on the money. You must have investments. At some times.

We're doing a few things, but it's not once again, it's like in bonds and municipal bonds and things like that that are not risky and not safe. And we don't go out and take a flyer and take a bunch of money and throw at somebody that says they can make a bunch of money.

I don't. I'm not much of it. I'm not a.

I hate it just sounds stupid to say, but I'm not that interested in money, you know. I like cheering my friends on, helping my friends out when they need help. And and I know I'm in good shape. Every now and then I would get a little I'd go a little crazy buying old guitars, you know. And I spent a fortune buying old guitarist And my buddy Chuck, who was he passed away a couple of years ago, that

How many guitars do you own? Oh, probably two hundred and fifty. And where are they?

They're right around the corner. They're all in my studio here at the house.

Okay. Collecting guitar is totally different. In the sixties and seventies, English musicians come to America, go to pawn shops wherever they were. Now everything nothing's rare anymore. Everything's available online. Ay, how do you decide what to buy?

Well, there are certain examples that you know are collectible, you know are desirable, that you know are rare, and all those things kind of factor into it, and they also affect the price. You know, there's plenty of instruments out there that are in the high six figures that you'll pay for them if you want to buy one, and that you know it's because they're scarce. It's because they're completely desirable, and they sound better than just about

Getting the money. Yeah, did the instrument live up to the rep.

Absolutely, But I know what I'm looking for too. You know, I don't buy for quantity. I've never bought a guitar that didn't speak to me, that didn't play well and sound well and inspire me. What's cool about all of these instruments is they have songs in them, they have melodies in them, they have music in them. And so I'm a collector of sorts, but I'm also a player.

So what are you on the lookout for now? I have no clue. Just it just shows up.

And there's a bunch of these cats around the country that that know me and know what I like to buy and this, and that they find me so I don't have to look real hard. They come knocking on my email very very frequently.

And are you like a Gibson or a Fender guy or your.

Dem all of the above, Gibbs, Gibson, Fender, Martin, you name it. There's so many great makers, Gretch, you know, tons of great stuff, you know, and some of this stuff is over one hundred years old that I've collected, and you know, they're just they're beautiful. There's just something magical about an instrument that you can buy something that you can make a joyful noise on. You know, they're special.

So everyone is different. But what are your three to five go tos?

I have a white Fender telecaster that I bought in nineteen seventy eight. It's the first Fender guitar I think I ever bought, and I didn't pay very much money for it. I got it for four hundred and fifty dollars.

Did you buy it newer? Use? Now? I bought it used? So what year I mean because CBS bought in the middle of that.

Yeah, in the late sixties they bought the Fender company. This was nineteen fifty three when they first started making instruments. In nineteen fifty I think, is when they started making guitars. And you know, I just I got a love for him. And if what's interesting about is an instrument is it will inspire you to play it the way it wants to be played. You can't just force yourself on an instrument. You have to let it do what it wants to do.

Too. There's a there's a neat balance in that. Okay, that's the way telecaster? What else?

Yeah, I'm Martin D twenty eight that was made in nineteen forty two. When I moved away from home, I had a newer Martin that was okay, it wasn't great. And when I moved away from home, moved to Louisville. I wanted an old, pre war Martin guitar because that's what all self respecting bluegrass players wanted to play. And I found this guitar at a bluegrass festival. And I'm eighteen and I found this guitar, and in nineteen seventy five,

Okay, couple more, A couple more.

I got a a less Paul, a sunburst less Paul from nineteen fifty nine. Wow, that was my ex brother in laws. I was married the first time my wife had a sister that was married to this guy, Leonard Arnold, Texas guitar player, and he'd had this guitar since nineteen sixty eight and I'd never bought one of the Sunburst less balls. Those were the highest mark of the marks for guitars that you could buy, and they were a lot of money, and I'd never bought one. I didn't

Okay, if you go back to the old era fifty sixty seventies, even into the eighties, it could have the same model name on it and each instrument sounded different. Sure is that still the same with the modern instruments. I think so.

I think every instrument is its own, you know, and you can same guy can make the same instrum, but it's always going to be a different piece of wood, you know. It's it's never going to be the same. So they all go together different, they all play different, they all sound different. It's the same make and model and all the same parts. And you think an electric guitar just would sound like an electric guitar, but they don't,

Something or what have you. And what about amps? Same thing?

You know, they're all they all look alike, they all got tubes in them, They all, you know, do the same thing, but they all sound different, you know, and you're you're It's what's fun is there's a constant search to sound better, and it never stops. I still buy old amps to this day. I still try different settings. I try different amps, I try different guitars. I love to experiment. When you find a great combination of a great amp and a great guitar, many they work in. Yeah,

Okay, let's talk about the Eagles for a second they put out The Long Road Out of Eat in two thousand and seven, Don put out Cast County I Be Lievest twenty fourteen. There hasn't been any new Eagles material. Joe's done some stuff. I'm making a general point. It's

Long and Neil, Yeah, of course I do. But you know, I just keep telling myself that's that's not the reason I ever did it.

You know.

The reason I did it is because of what it spoke to me inside of me, and I will I will never quit trying to make music unless I start weising like a like an old woman or something. Someday I might, but until that day, I'm gonna I guess I'm doing it for me, you know, and if anybody wants to come along, I'm grateful, you know. I tell people now when I go play live on my own shows, I go, look, I'm going to play for a long

Think that I keep that in the forefront of my mind. I don't you know.

I heard Kenny Rogers say something one time that really just took me down. Thought it was so cool and so so important, and he hadn't made a new record in years and years and years and years, and somebody asked him, I said, you've made a new record, and Kenny said, yeah, yeah, I got that. I wanted to make a new record. And he goes the interviewer said, are you hoping it's successful? And Kenny smiled and he goes, no, no.

Not really.

He said, I've had records that have been successful. He said, what I want this record to be is significant, and I just went, wow, there's my marching orders.

Those are my marching orders. So that's just me. Okay, you have the marching order on your way up. You know you have a hunger. You want to prove yourself. We talked about, you know, playing golf, etc. Can you get yourself in that same headspace recording today?

I think so, you know, and once again you know the the real truth is. And I don't It sounds arrogant almost to say, but I'm doing it for me. So I'm doing it to move me first, and I feel like if I can't move me, then I can't move you. I can't move anybody else. So that's where it has to That's where it kind of all begins and ends for me, is I'm doing this for my love of it, and whoever comes along come home if

Okay, So you've put out six of these EPs. I think at this point in time, what's the experience been.

You know, I've I mean, would I love to see it blow up and so many as the records? Of course I would, But I know that's not realistic. And you want any time you do this, whether it's making a record or playing a gig, you just want somebody to respond. And that's all that they're that's all that you're hoping for. Somebody hears it, and somebody is taking a story that you've written and go, Man, that pertains to my life. You've you've helped me get through a

You know.

Yeah, you can have a fun song, everybody likes it, sings along, but if you really you know, the one song I think that I probably will be most known for in my life is go Rest high on that mountain. It's been sung at so many services and funerals and memorials and whatnot. And what I know that it's done, what I'm grateful for is that it's helped somebody get through a hard time. If you get to do that, that's there's no better feeling, I don't think than that.

Okay, in the old days, I say there was a huge separation between the people on stage and the people in the crowd today. I mean, I can't believe it. I saw Van Morrison on TikTok, never mind Todd Rungrin and other people. Okay, so yes, in the old days, there would be points where people in the community radio, maybe play a gig, would talk about it would respond to what degree is a result of modern communications methods? Do you get the response directly from the audience? Oh?

Just think in the moment you get the response from an audience. You can't from them finding you on Instagram or TikToker, Facebook or wherever they find YouTube or whatever. All the formats are. I tell people all the time, I said, trust me, little Jimmy Dickens would have been on American Idol had it been there in nineteen forty eight. You know, everybody's just still trying to find the way

Well, well, you know, I don't know. He's probably not posting it, but it's him talking into the screen fair enough. But he's probably getting some help, I know, I right, Well, even Trump probably gets some help. So to what degree do you feel? I mean, because authenticity and credibility rule. It's one thing to take you have someone take care of the process, but there are companies that basically the

Well, they have to know that I've never posted a word on any social media platform on earth and never will. I'm not responding to them if they send me a PM.

Is that what you call it? Private message? Or so?

I don't even know what all those things are. But I've sadly had people get scammed saying to someone that it was me posing as me saying they want to have a relationship with me, and blah blah blah, and and built them out of money. And I've seen them do that, you know. And once again, technology for the wrong reason is the wrong reason, and it's it's not it's a pretty good stain on on how we treat each other sometimes, But.

Once I just.

It's the it's the way of today, and you kind of have to conform or or check out, you know, and I.

Have a checking out. You have this great skill and you're a songwriter. Let's just assume you were to perform the song live or a snippet a song live. What would be wrong with posting it on these sites? Well? Nothing.

You know. What's interesting though, is we talked earlier about how to how to get paid for stuff. Everybody's allowed to record me playing and singing and post it and find a way to earn income from it from getting likes and advertising and whatnot. However that works, I'm not saying I know. But wait, wait wait, wait, wait wait, you're taking what I'm doing. Wait wait wait, and you're gonna make money for Wait.

If whatever you're doing is so hot that people want to repost it, et cetera, and they may make money, that means you're gonna make money because your song is going to be more famous. Let's give an example of the person who posted the Fleetwood Mac song to the guy skateboarding Okay, Fleetwood Mac made a lot of money even though the person who even though they didn't post it, and now everybody knows the song. Same thing with the Goo Goo dolls. Iris. So you're putting out seventy songs,

Then if you think, do you think that by someone recording my concert, taking it home and probably less inclined to go buy a record because they have it on their little phone.

That's not even the way it works anymore. A. They don't buy a they don't buy the record. There, you're right. B. The person who's shooting the video paid to see you and is a fan. Those people are going to check out the material on Spotify, your entire catalog. What do we know? Older demos tend to be more passive when it comes to streaming. I'm I could go down that rabbit hole, but you're telling me that, really the music

But what they what I think they're all looking for is the authenticity that you spoke of earlier, and I think they can recognize it. They can recognize the things that that are real, you know, like take Chris Stapleton, for example, when he opens his mouth, you go game over. That's as good as singing as you're ever going to hear in your life. And hopefully the same thing rings true for me. When I open my mouth and I

I couldn't agree more, but all I will say is the paradigm is completely shifted. It's just like you were stiff for that hundred bucks. You're a musician. I guarantee you there's a lot of money you rode that you never got paid. Okay, and look at the status you have now. So you can't enter this saying well, someone's gonna make money off of me. Let's talk Don for a second. Okay, you'll know this song the Beatles, Yes it is, Okay, you know the song. I never liked

You know, I'm I'm always looking for something, and you know the when young people call me and say, hey, what would you do if A B and C happens? And I says, look, my way is gone.

I don't.

I don't know that I that my my words of wisdom would be relevant today because of the way that it works. And that's what I That's what I know is how it worked for me and how I had to do it to get to where I got. And now it's foreign. You know, all of this is pretty foreign to me. So I think it's as much about probably me being insecure of how to find my way out there. I'm just doing the best I can and trying to take a take a page from the folks

It's okay.

You know, I'm still going to do it because that's not the reason I'm doing it in the first place. And I just I will never not want to be creative, never not want to be reaching out and trying to inspire somebody to like something.

So someone comes to see you live. In your coming dates, will you play any Eagles songs?

Mm hmm, No, I don't think it's my place, you know. I I tell people, I said, I had not one note to do with the music of that band, an recordings any of the songs, So I can't with a straight face lay any claim to that. I said, Yeah, I got to play with him for ten years and sing some of those songs, but I don't think it. I don't think it looks good, you know. And I mean when I first started, I'll tell you this story.

Know, you know, this is just like with what's his name, Park Knoppler, you know who you are? I kind of do. I'm pretty comfy in my own skin. And who's the best rock guitarist all of them? No such thing. Let's leave clappting out and Joe Walsh out because of personal relationships. Where does that leave us? Jeff Beck's pretty bad ass? Well, that's what I say, Jeff Beck is the best.

But it's like what you like and what I don't like don't have to mesh, you know. And for when they say who's the best singer? You go, who do you like? That's all that matters. Why is it who's the best NBA player of all time? They go with that, It is it Lebron? Is it Michael Jordan? I go, they're both just great? Why can't it be that?

You know, that's an interesting one since they're playing in the Lebron's in the play because the style of play is so different. Lebron's a great player, but you're watching Michael Jordan. I guess you know. The reason I even make a choice here is because people tend to default to the usual suspects Clapton and Hendrix. Sure, and not that they're not great, but you know Beck was even you know, playing with his fingers, et cetera. Okay, we've

Thanks for letting me do this. I think you're going to talk to my wife Amy here in a week or so.

Yeah, yeah, you know, it's uh coming up. It'll be interesting because her manager reached out with you know, a lot of new technology stuff. You're living under the same house. Oh, I'll be interesting the same route, interesting to hear what she has to say. Let me ask you, since we know your your wife has famously made religious music, is that something that is inside the house or is that her identity and you have your identity.

Well, I think I think that people assume I'm like her because we're married. But I didn't grow up in a church going community or family or any of that, and so we're probably a good bit different that way. But what we are is kind, you know, to each other, and respectful of you.

She's taken.

She went and made pop records, you know, after she'd had a great, great run in the Christian music world and got lambasted for a lot and got lambastard for marrying me. She's She's taken all of that criticism better than anybody I've ever seen in my life. It's magic, magical to watch her respond to so much of that. And you're gonna you're gonna enjoy getting to talk to her.

Okay, just to build one more, because you know you brought up so many loose threads that I'm interested in Stapleton. Stapleton wins all the awards. Everybody in Nashville thinks he's the greatest. How come the rest of country music is not like kid?

I don't I don't know that I believe that. You think you don't think country music likes Chris Stapleton.

No, I said the opposite. They they think he's the greatest. Whenever they have awards, he always just like it, a Entertainer of the Year whatever, blah blah blah. But the rest of what's you know and hit country music doesn't sound anything else like that.

No, you're right, but it it kind of never has, you know. And the thing with the I learned in all my years of award shows, oftentimes people will really vote with who they think might be the best singer and not who's the most popular. You know, the Grammys have been that way. I won a lot of Grammys, but there were a lot of artists that sold way more records than me, way more popular than me, and all that kind of stuff. But you get there and you go, hey, there's five guys. I like that guy

You can't.

I don't know how you can figure any of that stuff out. But he's pretty special, right, He's.

A shining light in a ever changing world. You know. Tom Petty not the last tour, but before that, he played for a week at the Fonda. I went a couple of nights and one night said I'm gonna play a country song. He says, no, no, no, no, not today's country song. And he played something I can't remember who it was, and he goes today's country music is the rock of the seventies. And right, that's right, that's fair. But the other thing is, you know, I think people

In the one or two percentile of people that play the game that ever get that good of all the players.

I'm playing at a public course and the athol it's a public course, you know it is. So you got the people on the green who are not letting us on. On the part three it's an elevated t You got r foursome, you got the other foursome backed up, and you get the foursome coming off the seventh hole. Okay, I happened to hit a beautiful golf shot. Not that you have to achieve this to do this, but Wall landed like twelve feet from the pin, goes right in.