The Glorious Sons

bred Emmon's baby. Okay, you're the you're the lead singer. Okay. You played last night at the ol Ray. What was going on there? Why was everybody there? Um? I don't know. Okay, let's say you're a band from Canada. My research says you're not getting any terrestrial radio play in Los Angeles, So what was bringing people to the show? I would say the live show we played in l A how many times? Now? Three? Three? Yeah? Would you wed you played before the l Ray's remember the Roxy Roxy door? Yeah?

What was that Roxy? What? You played the will Turn before you played the l Well, it's a live nation building I guess that's why are you now? You open for the Stones? Right? How many gigs did you do with the Stones too? Okay? Because the guys who are the promoters of the Stones were there last night and say, hey, you know from a g that, uh you're one of

their acts. Okay, So you found there was an increase in audience each time you played in l A. Yeah, we never we haven't come here and played on our own backs and three years. So so this is kind of like a I couldn't tell you that there's a I wouldn't know you know what the increase would be because usually we come here and open for other bands. Who have you open for the Struts? Uh? Welsh Arms? We headlined the roxy last time we're here? Shows you

how much I know. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from Canada, how does the band begin? Um? Well, I actually had moved out to Halifax to start the band with Great A lot of people are Americans. They know nothing about anywhere other than America. So where where was your born? As Cheech and Chunks at Kingston, Ontario? Kingston, Ontario for those who are ignorant, how far from Toronto? Two hours? Okay? And you grow up in that environment.

What's Kingston like for someone who's never lived there? Small town, quaint, little college town. Okay. What your parents were for a living count welder and employed? And how many kids in the family? Three? Okay, and you're we're in the high from the oldest. We have a middle brother, Dustin, and then there's Brett Young. Okay, so you grow up in a house. Your father is an accountant, as he's playing a lot of music. He's a welder actually, but no,

nobody in our family was musical for us. Okay, what I thought he did? I get it wrong about account Your mother is an account Sorry about that. Okay. You two guys are in the band, the middle person boy or a girl boy? And what is he up to? He's a contractor? Okay. So you're in Kingston. Are you addicted to the radio? No? No, I used to wear construction. I hated the radio. They play the same Okay, we can look it up on the internet. How old are you? Okay? So you hear that voice in in the band? You

do what? Play guitar? Play guitar? And you okay? So then were you big music fans? So how did you get into music, Dad, Dad and mom, Beach Boys and John Cougar mellon camp. When we were really young, we just put the cassette in and help me. Rondo was like, you know, a hit going long road trips. And then I developed my own taste eventually, but that's where it all started. There's gigantic, like I don't even know what to call it, like cassette holder, suitcase with cassettes. Okay,

So there was a lot of music in the home. Well, there was music there, but it wasn't like it wasn't like we were a music family. It was like you get in the car and you put a cassette on, like okay, Well, if you were home, you were not on a road trip, would there be music playing because of J. I would listen to music because of J, but not because of my parents. Okay, so your parents would not be playing music. So were you were you? How did you find out about new music? Good question,

You know the same way everybody else does. You Just well, you know, you're younger than a lot of people the old days. Baby, when were found out about on the radio, gen X, MTV, about what your friends are doing, It's like you know your friends listening to a Green Day learning. When I come around on the guitar, you you're like, oh, that's cool, I want to learn that too, and then it kind of like just snowballs like that. Okay, let's

start at the beginning. When do you pick up an instrument that was probably grade five, grade six, so like ten eleven, And what was the inspiration? My best friend had a guitar, so I was like, dang, I want one of those two. And what was your first guitar? It was a Yamaha strat rip off type thing. It really sucked, like had like the floating bridge locking tuning things and I didn't even know how to use it since it was black and Johnson had the red one.

Yeah yeah, and it I didn't even know how to tune the thing and you literally had to get an Alan key to actually unlock it. And like it was it was a whole thing. Like Okay, who paid for it? Um? Probably mom and dad. Okay, did you have any yamp? Yep? What was the amp? It was massive PV keyboard amp that would like blow the roof off the house on one. It was like it's like, I don't know who would

sell eleven year old kid to say, I have no idea. Like, looking back on it, you're like, guy sold it to it to us five d bucks and it's like it's not even a guitar m first of all. And it's the loudest thing I've ever heard. And you bought this stuff new, were used used just from some guy you found from my guitar teacher. He's a bit of a shyster. Okay, So did you start guitar lessons before you had this equipment? What would what actually happened tell the story about your

guitar teacher. So like the first like literally three years of my guitar lessons was learning uh whatever you like you call notes, like yeah, the bell baby books. Yeah, but it was like Jesus Loves Me and like jingle bells and I'm going to guitar lessons and I'm for three years. You didn't take a gat in another teacher. I just looked at I looked at my buddies and like they're going on the internet and getting tableture and playing like cool songs and I'm playing Jesus Loves Me.

I'm like Jesus. There's a massive disconnect here. He's a quiet dude too, So he's not gonna say anything to anybody. He's not going to tell him. I'm I guess I'm persistent to a fault because I stuck with it and you read music to this day. Hell no, okay, before he sold you this loud amplifier and the rip off guitar, what were you playing like music wise? No? No, what did you use for a guitar? I don't have one like that was the first That was the beginning. Okay.

So he sold you that stuff and then he gave you the lessons. Yeah, and for three years you're learning this religious stuff. You're not playing in any bands, You're not learning stuff at home to cassettes or anything. I'm trying, you know. But like I said, it's if you ever pick up a guitar for the first time, it's not an easy thing to navigate. It wasn't for me anyway. Um, everything everything Jay does is through brute for us, so like it never comes fast to him like it would?

You agree with that? Absolutely? Okay? So when did it click or is it still not clicked? Um? For guitar, it's starting to click, you know. Um, I think it started to click when I really like I used to sing, so um, I would just lean on my buddy who could do like all all the November rain solos. You know, he played guitar. I just strump the chords and sing and we had a band, but it was more like us having a drinking competition on stage. And then I went and saw Brett's first band and I was like

Jesus Christ was like that that's a singer right there. Okay, but a little bit slower. So how long after the three years do you start a band and hit the stage or what? We had really shitty bands for years, so like was always about starting things, but they sucked you know. Um, so did you ever get paid for being in these bands? You're just playing in the garage? Yeah, we would get free booze sometimes. And what were you

up to? Well? I was like seven years old. I was at their concerts thinking they were the greatest bands of all time. I remember like being truly hurt when

somebody didn't like the band. I remember I remember them playing and um, Kingston, there's this place called Confederation Basis Basin and it's just like you know the park you know, meant for like you know, events and stuff and they put on shows there and I remember this, you know, this guy that was in a band playing before them, this with you know, Space ear Rings is punk, you know, I thought he knew everything. Was like just chirping my

brother's band like heavily. And I was like nine years old, and I fuck him, took him. I took him. I took him to task. Really I hated him in my whole life. Like I would meet people that, you know, you Jay was playing rock and roll, okay at an

age when it wasn't cool to play rock. Yeah, okay, but you're you got all these guys you know playing you know, I have nothing against their music tastes or what they're playing, but they there was a certain thing in our in our town at least that the punks always they always had this arrogance about them that everybody else sucked. So you're separating the punks from rock and roll, yeah, and which isn't a real thing, but well no, it is a thing if you get that deep. Absolutely just

want to make sure we get it straight. But in Kingston, Ontario, my brother, my brother would be playing these shows and he would be playing with punk bands and he'd be playing rock and roll and they would always chirp them and I was like a twelve year old kid and I and I would always chirp them back. And I was there at every show. They were my favorite band on Earth. I didn't know how shitty they were. J Jay tells me the ship they were shitty, but I

I when I was young. You were the younger brothers. So how did you get into it? Him? Okay, Yeah, so how did you become a singer? Um, this is a funny story. I got asked to join a band and be the singer of the band because they knew I was a psycho. So I and you were how old? Okay? And had you sung like in school? The records? Nothing, So they just based on your identity said you'd be

you'd be a good front man. Yeah, and uh. I joined the band and we had like three practices and then they stopped calling me, like and I was just kind of like, what's going on here? And then I found out like three or four weeks later that they had invited another person to joined the band, and I just kind of, you know, I was maybe, you know, one of the first I don't want to say failures,

but you know, I felt very rejected as you. And I was playing basketball with my friend Richard Storms, and uh, he was like, yeah, I played the guitar, and I was like, all right, well, let's start a fucking band and beat these guys. So we went to his garage and he started playing like guitar like slash, like at least what I would. Yeah, and I was like, well, I better learn to sing. So I took the guitar and played weak Kings by a band called the Tragically

Hip and from Kingston, and Uh. I literally locked myself in my room for five six hours a night and sang that song, just that song, until it sounded good to myself. And after that was we wrote a song called Rags and I never looked back. I wanted to do that for the rest of my life. It took over everything. Okay, were you any good in school? I was good at English literature, but I was so you were not like, you know, a Truan guy who's the problem in the clos room or anything. I was a

little bit of Uh. I was more of a joker. I wasn't. I wouldn't say that I was a problem. I wasn't. It wasn't like a it wasn't a troubled youth by any means, but like my teachers would get very annoyed with me unless it was English class because I actually liked English class, so I listened. But okay, and at this late date, are you like a big reader or something? We all? Yeah, I mean Jay read quite a bit. Jay reads more than night what oh Jesus you name it like i've we we we we started.

I started at least becoming an a real reader on Hemingway. I really loved Hemingway. And then I mean, some of my favorite books are like Comforter, Confederacy of Dunce. Is uh just just fiction novels. Okay, so you start this band and what do your parents say when they say you want to be a rock and roller? Well, Jay started the band and I joined, but I university literature, and I called my dad and I told him I

was going to be a musician. And my mom didn't talk to me for a couple of weeks, maybe more after that, because you know, I just went online and canceled all my courses and I didn't want to give them a chance to talk me out of it. Um, but I quit everything, and my dad said, well, you better get a job. So I started working I call it springs, a stockboy in the back women's shoe store and played a bunch of terrible gigs for zero dollars until I joined the Glorious Suns and then we started

making you know, the big bucks. Okay, just to be clear, the band with your friend, did you play in high school? Did you play any gigs? Do you ever get pass? Yeah? Well, we played as much as possible, like as much as a high school band. Like, we played as much as we possibly could. We had a fake manager that didn't do it anything. I mean, we thought we were gonna be the biggest band in the world, So I mean, any opportunity that came my way, we played. And that's

the way that it goes. When you're starting, you like you just want to play your music. Okay, So how long did you go to university? A year and a half. Okay, At what point did you start this band? Were you playing original material or as opposed to covers? As as soon as I started playing in a band, all I want to do is play original material. But usually when you play original material, audiences are not interested. But I'm a good front man. As you are. I saw, okay, Jay,

well he's going through these mental mashinations. What are you doing? Uh? When he's at school? You mean did you go to university? And how long did you go? For? Four years? So you graduated and so you were not going to make music your career at that point. Uh, well I had a band almost always, like I always had something cooking in the background. Um. I literally had no idea what I wanted to do. But you always talked that you actually did. That's not true. You always wanted to be

in a band. Yeah, your whole life. I can remember you working and snapping and freaking out about like this is not what I want to do. That like when something clicked in my head when I was like twenty eight years old, or whenever I started this, I was like this, so today you're how old? And I was like, this is my last shot to actually do something. So

that's bye, okay a little bit slower. So you you were kind of like a semi pro musician and you get really you graduated from college and you do what for like the next six year contractor construction. Um, but we still had a band then, like just playing around Kingston and you saw his band and thought what I was like, these high school kids blow us out of the water. Not not a question, it's like you put

us back to back, like yeah, um yeah. But and so I saw his band, and then my band kind of broke up and fell apart, and then uh, we started, Brett and I started like writing together. We did like an acoustic project, and then the Stone Ponies. Don't forget the Stone Ponies. We'll tell me about that. It was the bass player from my band, Jay's roommate and oldest friend, Scott on the drums, Jay on guitars, and me playing

acoustic and singing, okay. And what happened with that band? Uh? Nothing, nothing, okay. So how many years after you dropped out of university? Was it before it became you looked up with your brother? It was Glorious Sons. I dropped out of university to join the Glorious Sons and being my brother's band. Was it the Glorious Sons in name before Brett joined was Pete Rose and the Gamblers. That's pretty good, especially Sins.

Right now he Rose, I'm saying he's straightened out. He should be in the band, but be in the Hall of fame. Okay, I think you should too. Okay, So it Pete Rose and the Gamblers. How does it become the Glorious Sons, um packer and the band or drummer. Yeah, it was just like, what about the Glorious Suns, And we're all like, wow, it's better than Pete Rose and the Gamblers. The only thing you know, when you talk about rock, which is its own side show today, of

course people say there's the Rivals Son. No. I totally agree with you. I wish we were never ever named the Glorious Sons. I hate the name. If we were named something else, I could, I think we might have more success. I honestly think that we would be less looked at as like, uh, you know, bro rock and roll band. I think if we had, you know, a name with meaning at least, it would help. Okay. But when you he said you're going to become the Glorious Sons,

will you air of the band the Rival Sons? No? No, not at all. Okay, So suddenly it's the Glorious Sons when you get together the two brothers. How many of the people in the band are still in the band today, Uh, everybody except our original guitar player. What happened to him? I didn't like the road? Okay, So when you start the band, you're twenty eight and Brett you are okay, Okay, what are you thinking? Then? I'm thinking that we're going

to be the greatest rock and roll band. All right, So you're delusional, but okay, what do you think it delusion? You have to be delusional, but a lot of people are not delusional from the get go, and you be fud shedding a little bit, Jay, what are you thinking? Uh? I would rather go home and paint houses than not strive to be the greatest rock and roll band on earth, as soon as you don't want to wake up and

be the best and just go home. Okay. So now you have the model because it tragically hip or from Kingston. But once you form a Gloria's Sons, what is the next step? Uh? Well, Brett literally he wasn't even the singer. He was the tambourine player. At first. He would just jump up and but we play who was a singer? And I sang and Andrew sing and but we noticed that Brett playing the tambourine was much more engaging than anything else on stage. So we started giving him more tasks.

So then he played piano, and then he started singing, and then we started writing and then you know how long did that whole process take a couple of months? Like by the time we put out our first record, our producer was like, this guy needs to be singing all the songs. Okay, a little bit slower. You now have the band there now called the Glorious Sons. Brett starts out on the tambourine. How long before he becomes

the singer? H yeah, probably like like full time singers. Okay, in that two years, when do you make the first record throughout the whole time recorded or recorded? Probably a year and a half. Okay, in that year and a half, are you are you playing live constantly? Where four times a week in Kingston, Ontario? I mean, can you make anybody playing four times a week? You know, we didn't make any money, Like we made enough barely to cover

the bar tap. I remember being like getting paid, giving it all back to the bartender and him being like, give me your credit card because you got paid for these assholes. They were just And then how many of the songs did you play were originals? All of them? Yeah, So when we started this band, that was the thing. We're playing our own music right from the get go.

That was there was too many Like growing up in a small town, a lot of the live entertainment is cover bands, right because you know, they know they'll they'll get paid and you know they can make a better living and it's more of a hobbyists kind of mentality. But it you know, we kind of I didn't want to do that. We wanted to be we want to be Okay, so you're playing, you know, playing in Kingston

for bar money and what what's the next step from there? Well, then we just started getting any gig we could in like Toronto, Ottawa. Who's getting these gigs? H Yeah. My girlfriend at the time was even like calling places like you know, it's like all hands on deck, whatever it takes. Kind of men. You didn't have any agent, you didn't have a manager of them. Okay, so you start playing Toronto, you play Ottawa, any acclaim or you just go and

that's it. Usually when we played, first of all, we like to have fun party, so our friends would come out and we didn't suck, so everyone had a good time and they get hammered with us, we'd get hammered them, and all of a sudden, you know, he's slowly this thing starts happening like one group of people at a time. And Okay, what came first, the community or the recording? The community? Okay, And so you're living in Canada. I'm

somewhat sophisticated with Canada. There's a lot of government money, there's a lot there's a lot of people playing music. But you know, it's much easier to get ahold of the professionals, not as big a country in terms of music business. Are you trying to get a manager? Are you trying to get an agent? We literally have no

fucking clue what we're doing at this point. We don't even our producer of our first album, John Angus McDonald from the Jersey as a guitar player, saw our band and asked us if you could produce a few songs for us, and I was like, sure, what does that mean? I didn't have a clue. Like so this was like a year and a half into the Glorious Okay, so he records those songs where uh, we did it in Newmarket,

which is north of Toronto, about an hour. Okay, how many songs six and then how long until they were released? I don't remember we did it in the winter. I think we we released Mama in this summer in the summer, Okay,

So what happened when you released it and blew up? Yeah, it's like one small little like uh like there's all these like small little radio stations in Canada, so like one small town at a time kept adding the song, and our hometown added it, and we had support from this station, Hits FM, and all of a sudden took like this huge cyclical thing and all of a sudden it's on the charts and we're driving around and it's getting played. Okay, but usually it takes a relationship to

get on the radio. The two of you were doing it yourself or you had somebody involved. Well, I would I would say that we had a relationship in our producer, John Angis, who like, honestly, we would not be anywhere without him because he was already like uh, I don't want to say famous, but a very well known guitar

player in a great Canadian band. And you know, I think the traction of him producing the song just for the bio audience that band was the truth I think I think that we probably you know, uh had a leg up because he produced our song. So he whatever, his company was, whatever, he was the one. He was the one responsible for getting into radio. We did have a very low level manager at the time. Um too,

so rude, that's not rude, referring to garage manager. UM. So he was like, you know, we paid someone to take the song to radio, and okay, but who was that? Who was what the person that took it to radio? It was? It was RPM? It was it was an RPM? Was it? Who was it was? Kim? Was Kim? Yeah? And she did a great job. She did. Okay, so now song mom is on the radio. One thing I will say is I just gotta correct you here. He's

not a low level manager. We were the first band he ever managed, So he just he's a garage man to do it. I'm not throwing stones. I'm just no, no, no, I didn't think it was to put down there. Most bands usually have somebody they start with and then they're not that world occasionally and someone grows into the role. So the record as he hit many markets, what happens after that? We play a show with a band in

Canada had a number one song. Who's actually on tour with us right now ahead of the herd Um then the number one song in the country, and it did blow up like crazy in Canada, and they asked us to play a show in Toronto at the Drake Hotel and we went and played it um and after that they asked us to come on tour. And how many dates were in that tour? What about your day jobs? Quick? Quit them immediately and there was enough money going on

the road. We were there was we were I don't even really know how we stayed afloat merch Mama money. We got mama money from the from the song merchandise. You always find a way, okay, if you were struggling. I didn't feel struggling. I didn't feel like I struggled at all. I was living with two guys at that time and like this like house that was completely garbage, But I never felt like I was, you know, having trouble. We had one rule and that was whoever got paid.

I had to buy the weed in the booze and we would we would drink like a two four every night. So we were we were doing okay. Okay. The other thing it is Canada with a strong safety net. Are you taking any money from the government at that point? Zero? Okay, wait a minute, I was getting unemployment talking about music. No, no, no, I'm talking about unemployment. That's what I'm talking about. I was getting unemployment and anything else or that. You're getting unemployment.

Everybody else in the band getting unemployment. A few members definitely were like, you're living on unemployment. Packer worked at the Township and Loyallest Township, and I mean, that's a really good job. So he had a bunch of money saved. Mamba worked with Jay and was a plumber, and he's always been really good with money. So I don't know, maybe he had some money put away. J put all of his money into the band. Okay, but in Canada,

let's assume you how long were you on unemployment for? Oh, I don't know, off and on for you know, when I was working with J, I couldn't claim unemployment. So and Jay also did odd jobs in between shows and stuff, and he would hire me and younger the bandmates to work with him. Okay, so you go on the you go on the road with a band, you play the

twenty dates. Where does that leave you um so I think midway through that tour, we were coming back through Toronto and yeah, so I think before the Horseshoe Tavern date, Um, Jason, someone from your office called us. It was yes, okay, James tell us the story. So we uh Ian the office brings uh ep the EP from said manager who was working with them before. Great great kid brings it. You should listen to this. So we listened to it and Mama, they say it was a hit, but it

wasn't a hit at that point yet. It was um it was just starting and we were looking at it. Of Okay, is that all the band is his first? Mama, so get the EP and I think song five on the EP is called Shapeless Art and it is not structured like a pop song. Um. But the second we heard that there was a voice and a person in there that were telling these stories that we had to

learn about, like I can't. It was the furthest thing from a single, but it showed depth in a way that um, I think a rock band, especially coming from Canada, has a tough time doing. So we hear that they you guys are on your way on tour. Uh stop by the stop by the office, have us sit down, and I'll never forget it. You guys walk in. Brett sits across from me, doesn't say one word. I feel like I'm at a job interview with Jay and with piercing the eyes and um, the complexity of the room

was different. I can't I can't explain it, um, And I know it sounds corny, but it's it's a reality. So we have this conversation about where we go and what we're gonna do. And they had this song on the record, White Noise, which we thought would be a great single, but we thought maybe you need a little mixed, needed some work before we do it in a strategy. And we had this great conversation that was it, um. And we leave and I remember Brett comes back into

use the bathroom. Uh and uh. I was like, man, how do you think that was? Like? I think ever been pretty good? He's like, so are we gonna do this? And then they get in there, they literally they get and I'm like, no, we gotta come see our band tonight because if the band is not great live, we we just won't do it. So we go that night and I remember it's a snowstorm and we show up Horseshoe. You guys were supporting head of the Herd. We show up,

We go on. At this point, they are touring in a converted short bus um with blacked out windows and the inside looks like the dungiest bar you've ever been to and smells like an ashtrike. And this is on a Tuesday or Wednesday in Toronto. Uh. So we go in and I was like, well, this is I hope it's great, but you never know if it's not great.

So we go in, we have drinks, their mom and dad and everybody's in and in, and I go to the front of the stage and they come on and I was like, this is going to be horrible, and I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. So Brett as the front man, has a keyboard not facing the audience, horizontal or vertical to the to the stage singing like this, singing sideways to the crowd. It was the most bizarre stage set up I've ever seen. With the tambourine. At the time, I was like, this is gonna be horrible.

So disappointed. And I think you started with ruby and the first note of the first song. I looked at the end and we're like, holy shit, and it would. It gives me the hair standing up on my rooms talking about it because you could see what it could be. UM. And I remember that night. I was like, we like, we can't let them go out on tour with like, we need to figure out a way to do this

before the world sees what we see. And you know what, nine years later, I still think that the world doesn't see what we see, but we that night, I remember sitting with mom and dad of all the boys, and there was this real sense of community of people that were there that had come in to see them, and we're drinking copious amounts of tequila packers. Dad kissed me about four times. UM. But one of the things that resonated with me is they cared and we talked about

the tour and the safety and taking care of their boys. UM. And I feel like that in that moment, whether we were able to sign them or not, something was going to happen, whether we were involved or not. And then they go out on tour and I get a phone call. They're driving from thunder Bay to Winnipeg on that same tour. It is and it's in and we're talking minus thirty

degrees celsius weather were from medicine. Oh yeah, even worse, worse even get a call and the this party bus they're traveling on has broken down and nobody and manager doesn't call us. Nobody calls us, and I find out through mom or dad maybe I don't know. We did four two or dates. We so we were in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of nowhere, the school bus breaks down and it's not it's not going anywhere.

So our other brother on the time was on the road with us doing film and hanging out and just helping out. And anyway he could him and I go two hour hitchhike rent haul because that's the only thing we could get. Drive back two hours, pick the boys up, unload all the sleeping bags and the and the mattresses from the school bus into the back of the U haul, hopping the front seat, two guys in the front seat, five guys in the back, windows, shut the door, eight

hour drive, comple pitch black. And we did four tour dates like that and in the minus thirty and nobody called and nobody called for help. And when we found out about it, I was like, they're gonna win no matter what they do, because they just continue to work. So we got the plane tickets because I figured that would probably go a long way in this conversation along UM, and we flew them in and got took care of all the travel pieces. Thunderah yeah, and then we started

with we launched. We stopped everything that was in motion in terms of what the plan was going to be, and pushed pause and remixed the next single, brought it all out and that January it became the first number one because I don't think momb it was number two UM and never stop often. But that sentiment of the work ethic and UM not taking anything for granted and not complaining UM without a shadow with doubt is the

driving force between behind where the band is today. Okay, when you find the band, what are you literally doing, Jason? I have well Ian who runs the label with me partners from the beginning by default producer to managing his band, started a label, had some success, didn't plan, had to reimagine what that is, but had been managing this Canadian hip hop act that the year we signed, the Glorious Suns went on to sell a million singles in Canada at classified White hip hop act who broke had his

breakout at thirty eight years old. Put that in perspective, unbelievable. One of the from a very small town still to this day lives in a town of six hundred on east coast of Canada. So that gave us at least something to talk about. And I've learned so much um through that process. And I love rock and roll. My

first record was Hot Rocks. So when you hear something that speaks to you as a fan and then you can actually apply the skill set that you don't even realize is the skill set, it's like arts and craft day every day, and you just you continue. So we were doing that. We really didn't have any money when we signed the band, and we probably beg board and steal to get the radio campaign up and the remix

and make a video. And I think the I think the bar tab and the damages from that video was a substantial enough line item that almost choked on my coffee when I got it. That was a fun video, yeah, but we set it in motion and so all those pieces leading up to that day, I really prepared us um too. When we found somebody that worked as hard as as we did. Okay. So how old were you at that point, thirty four and you've been in the music business. I similar. I didn't even know this story,

but you were, but very similar. I dropped out of university making records strout high school for beer money. Um in Canada, there's no there wasn't an infrastructure where you there was a direct path to working in the music business. So I'd record my band in high school so you had your own Yeah, horrible, But we would press cassettes and I would pay the guy in the cafeteria to play it. Then I'd go sell the cassettes. I didn't think it was a business, and it was just what

we loved and we would play on the weekends. We do all that sort of stuff and come into university and of high school it's like, okay, time to grow up. You go to university because that's what everybody else does. Go to univer the city and kept making records for other people and realizing not the guy who should be

in the band, what are you laughing at? It must have been hard, but so but I have the same moment where I'm three years in the university, working at a hospital and kidney dialysis think thinking I'm preparing for MCATs and dropped out of school and I came home and told my parents I think my mom. It was probably like almost three months of silence, and the silence got broken. My wife today was dancing with my father at a wedding. He said, I don't care what he does.

If he's going to dig a ditch, dig it better to the guy to the right and the guy to the left. And it was this really empowering thing to break free of these chains that really are self imposed, because as a parent you don't really have those. But they're like, what does the music business mean? I'm like, I have no idea, and they're like, where are you

going to go? I have no idea? And so I got a bartending job and going into the Long Weekend, I had put an application into a renowned studio outside of Toronto called Metalworks, right, Gili More, Yeah, So and I was like, well, if I can get in there, I will work harder than anybody else. And so I put an application. They called me on Thursday, going to the Long weekend and they're like, we have an intern that's not showing up this weekend. Long weekends are a

big thing in Canada. Everybody wants to go. Would you like to come in or not? We can't tell you what you're gonna work on. Like absolutely going to my restaurant. I'm there maybe a month. Like if you don't let me do this, I gotta quit. He has like, fine, go and do it. First day, first session, rush vapor trails. Really and you're doing what you're get t not even I don't even know how to wind a cable at

that point. And some there as an assistant to an assistant to an assistant, cleaning bathrooms and doing all that sort of stuff. But being that close to magic, it's intoxicating. And so I would do forty to fifty hours a week there, close the bar, go back and forth, make no money, but you're in the action. You're where it's created. I got to watch um Eddie Kramer do Festival Express.

I got to just got to be in Chicago. I didn't know what I was doing, but the longer I was there, I realized I didn't want to be an engineer. Um that's to me, that felt like accounting work. I guess it's not where the magic lies. In my opinion. Um, So stay there for two years outgrew that um in that window. Met Ian, through his girlfriend at the time, worked at the restaurant with us, and he was in a double time punk rock band that I thought was amazing.

And this is the era of like fat Records, and I knew nothing about punk rock like zero, but I was like, holy shit, they're touring. This is great, Like I need to sign this ban Um. I go to rehearsal. They the only one that gave me time, Whizzy and everybody else didn't trust me. So we go and I was like, Okay, well are going to do europ Um. I will find the money to do it. And the first conversation was, well, what do you think about slowing down the drums for a double time punk rock band?

It did not help my cause in trying to influence anything and making that record, so I ultimately and ended up engineering that record with the band, and I remember got a lawyer signed a management deal with them on Thursday, and I was in a twelve passenger van traveling East coast Canada in the dead of winter with these punk rock kids playing basement shows and it was eye opening and it was exciting, and at the time I felt like I had won the lottery and every read and

there was zero money, but I mean zero, like it was a very expensive hobby. But you're in the action, and so you go and you do that and come back and Ian still partner to this day, and Yng to the Yang. We couldn't get a record deal, and I think this is where the management thing really solidified. For better for worse. I'm a very strong advocate for people I believe in, and I am willing to self sacrifice in the pursuit of that, for better or for worse.

It doesn't always work in my favor, but if that's

all that's left behind him, happy about that. And so we're out shopping this band that I saw this potential on that I loved that the record deals were bullshit and no money, and I knew radio wasn't gonna play this band, and I knew the only way they're going to sell records is getting on tour and playing these places, and and so Ian and I decided that we were both going to put in three thousand dollars and start Black Box, which is the record they will be signed

the guys too, And we created a culture with every band we signed that released Number one, your job is to recoup so we can make another record, and that was the culture with every band that we signed, So there was a moral obligation taking care of your own ship to make sure the next artist that came up could have this thing. So that's what started that whole process.

But in that moment, the way Brett was talking about his brother and when people were chirping his brother's band, I think at the core of all of this is that advocacy for things that you love that the world doesn't necessarily see through your lens. That is so clear to you, and I think that was the birth of what you and I do as management. Um. I can't imagine the ship Jason took for managing our band, and we started out okay, so you manage it. But they

already have the track mom I was blowing up. You remix the other one that's blowing up? And is it a continuous no? No? Yeah, absolutely hard to remember those details.

I can totally do because I wear those scars. Um. I think so the thing with Mama Mama at Arms Reach feels very one dimensional, and you're coming from a city that people say there's something in the water, whether it's headstones, whether it's the hip, there's something there, um, And you're trying to carve your own path on the merit of this band, this songwriter, specifically the dynamic of these two gentlemen, but more importantly the true art. It's

like taking coal and grinding it down. There's a diamond there, and I feel like I'm the only one who could see it in a way that nobody else could. So now you have to go convince people to see it the way you see it before it's actually there for everybody. Um. And when I say every moment was a fight or uncool band, nothing's going to happen. Never gonna break it radio, never gonna break it, alternative radio, never gonna sell a ticket. Literally every day that was And I got so sick

and tired of that too. Yeah, of course, like I felt like we were up against people's perceptions constantly, and I didn't think they knew who we were. Absolutely, And so we we make this video for and it was more money we'd ever spent on a video, which was how much that's a lot of money. How much of that money is from the government. That one ten thousand was from the goverment where you get the other two

you'd saved it from. I'm telling you the yeah, the Diceinus of that period, But I figured he never told us it was nice either that time, No, nor my wife. But I gotta ask, was your wife the same person your father had the conversation? Yes, yeah, she stood by it still to this day. UM. Key to the success to be all the way honest. So we make this video and I'm like, I want I want the band

to try. I want the world to see the band how we see the band, because it will help me tell the story that I think we need to tell. And I think we did it um. But at that time, so we were the label. We weren't the manager at that time. So I still have the garage, yes, but very much advocating as if we are the manager. Um yeah.

And so but once I realized that it was going to take more than what was happening around it, and if I was going to die on this sort, I I thought it was important to be the one driving it um. And so in that period you start to see these things that you're telling people and then it's not being echoed or reflected in the same way, and that confusion when you're trying to change people's perception, it's

very difficult to the over all goal. And I think we we had a conversation about where we were pushing, how we wanted to push, what was important UM and the band made a decision that we should probably step in and help them in a in a deeper level and to be all the way on us. Nothing changed in terms of how we worked with the band as a record label at that point. Nothing changed. Okay, but

obviously got rid of the garage manager. What did he say? Well, there was there's some details that we can't really but you know what it was. It was okay, did he get paid when he left? Well, well that that you go down that No, it was it was pretty quiet. Yeah, it wasn't a bad thing. And to be honest, stuff, Yeah, he's doing great stuff. The band was. He'll tell you to this day that the it just was moving too fast.

And you know, we invited him to come be a part of our shop to try to mentor and because I know how loyal these guys are to a flaw and I didn't want to be the guy to put a wedge, but that didn't work out. And if I was only going to do one thing in my entire career, was going to break this band like there was. It was so clear to me. And so when you're willing to do that, UM, those decisions may seem difficult to everybody else, but they're very easy two at least to

me in that time. So we do that, you know, take over the whole operation, piece it together, huh, start touring with more strategy. We we go from uh that into what will be our first number one with the union. UM No sorry, so so EP back it up, so EP two. Now we got to make an album, and so we have this EP and we've got the song White Noise peeking at number two, and we're making a record,

UM for a band. And it's interesting when Brett joined his brother's band and during the making of that record, UM, it was still a jump all of whose band it was UM and and not just between the two of them with the other guitar player, where everybody is really polite, passive, aggressive in this band at times UM. And so it's yeah, and now we just get ready to it. But it's it's all these things where everyone's not trying to step

on anybody's toast. And so we go into this church, we make this record with John Angus and finish that record. First single comes out, the band goes out for sixty shows to support tours, one with Airborne, one with the trus that we I mean it probably cost us sixty Yeah, So we went out and we did that, and we come back and the first tour we do on our headline in Canada, coming out of that book by Ian director Venue no promoter. We sell it out. Okay, you

the records. Now, are you making any money on the record? No, because they're not making money, So how do we fund the touring? So there is no money, but you can start to see real people connecting to something that speaks to them the way the way it spoke to me in a way that it was very much underground, even though radio was playing it because rock radio historically does

not translate to record sales, certainly not in the modern era. No. So, but we were seeing the growth and people were passionate and they felt like they would get something every night that maybe the last time. And it was very reckless and not always the greatest, but always the most honest, and so we would go at and do that, and so we sell it this tour Toronto, we sell nine tickets in advance at the Opera House. Remember no promoter. Ian and I paid for the promotion of that tour,

like market, thousand dollars market. He did the whole routing, he did the advancing, we did the merch. There was literally fully independent. I'm like, holy shit, we that felt like the first real validation. Um you guys, probably I felt I felt validated every night, you know. Yeah, but you're a twenty one year old kid. Um yeah, every rocket. It's interesting to hear it from another perspective because, okay, so you promote your own towards successful Yeah them? What uh? Them?

What is the whole kind? I start getting a reputation of being the guy. Have you met Jason, Oh you haven't. He'll tell you Glad sounds gonna be the biggest band in the world at some point. He's delusional too. Yeah, literally that that is the context around everything. And everybody told me your bands not cool, they'll never break it. Alternative and it would just it would make me so angry that it became the north star of everything, which which upsets me because I honestly I don't like what

is alternative music. I mean the whole thing. It's like, we're a rock and roll band that plays our own instruments. But I don't think you can kind of pigeonhole us into anything. We've We've always had an extremely eclectic catalog. Okay, let's let's kind of go fast and then get to that point. So now you're having success, At what point do you woke up with Nick so quick? So we go from that record too. I know, if we make the Union two point oh, the band is never bigger

than where we didn't want to do that anyways. Um So Brett and the guys trying to make a record two or three times, and I had this. I don't know if I've told them so. This is not like can make them angry or happy. I figured there's no ego in finding the right decision. And so if they are going to go out and try to make this record on their own, they're either going to deliver something that is stunning or they are going to be so frustrated in their pursuit that they're going to throw up

the white flag. Can say, okay, so now what do you want to do? And I think we did that over but six months of them banging their head against the wall three tries, three tries. It was in l a Um meeting with a new gentleman at BMG, Jamie Neely on the publishing side, and he's like, I got this. I'm like, I'm trying to make this record for this band, Glory's Sunds. I can't. I can. I need to hear. I can explain it to you, but I haven't heard what I need to hear. So he's like, let me

play this thing from this. He's like, I got this Danish producer, songwriter and a couple of guys that and he played me one song and I was like, we're making that. They're making the record, and I called you in and I'm like, I found it. Now. This is a band that the way they historically made a record to how that record is very different. And so I seeded the demo to them individually, Hey what do you think of this? Like do you like the vibe of this?

And everybody came back, Oh, this is fucking great. Oh yeah, I would love to work with them, not knowing what that meant, but I was just like one, like, so come back three months later and I was like guys go to l A, sit with this team, give me a week, see what comes. Um. We go out first night in l A with the producers. The band drinks probably four pictures of Margarita's j Emmons and jam and Fashion looks across at the producer and says, so, what's

the fucking plan? What are we here for? I remember, and I'm like, oh man, these guys like all that kind of just like Frederick tom Ryan, I'm kind of like look like deer in the headlights. It was everybody. Yeah, everybody was so frustrated. But we tried. Don't forget. We tried to make a record three times before we got here, So like, did you did you know that it wasn't

working or only Jason told you? We all know it wasn't working because it would take us, like, you know, five days to do two songs, and and we'd come out of it and there's just isn't something like we want to take a step, like that's what we want to do. We want to challenge ourselves creatively, change change the game. But every time we went in, we we kind of came out with the same. Yeah, so we go to l A. We knew what we wanted, but we didn't know what it looked like. And you could

see that, so I knew they wouldn't. I knew the one thing with Brett when it comes to that sort of stuff, He's unwilling to compromise, compromise the pursuit of what's great, and so we do that. That night we end up at the Rainbow Room, and I knew we were going to be okay when Brett said to the producer, just I'm not here to tell you what I want to do. You just I'll give you a week and you you paint the picture with me on what we

need to do. We were there to get help, but we needed help more than any at any point in our career. We needed help at that moment, and we made We made that record, which was the last record, which getting to how we met Neck Days fifteen days and in the Crazy Party. You should have seen how confused we were going in there, though, I honest I

didn't know if I'd ever be a musician again. And to come out after fifteen days and have ten songs actually that you loved, it was like the greatest feeling of all time, and and it was loaded with hits and I knew, I swear to God and I knew, and I knew in that moment that this I was going to be able to convince people to support to get that number one at alternative Radio. And we got it on the first single of that record. So fast

forward relationships with BMG, Ian and I come in. We operate BMG as the Canadian operation for a couple of years. Part of that, dan Gil dan Cohen who ran Vagrant, came up to meet us in the office and we played them Josie off of the record and like we should sign this band. I was like, Wow, that was easy. This is wonderful. Um so, And in that intern dan Gil sends it to Nick Attaway. I have no idea who Nick Ataway is. From that day till almost still today, I get a Nick out of way call at eight

o'clock in the morning. I don't know this guy, no deal memo, no nothing. He's called me. He's like, we're gonna do the deal, right you can. I'm like, I don't even have ever even talked to a lawyer. He's like, he's like, I played it for this person. I played it for this person. Holy ship, this is the greatest record. I called Dan, I'm like, who's Nick? Like, there was no formal introduction. That was how I met Nick Nick Attaway, and he's like, this is it. This is gonna be amazing.

Holy sh it, I can't believe you deliver this is this is unbelievable. I love this band, Let's do it. So it's like, well, we're gonna do it then, and the deal became secondary because at that point I couldn't pull out of it would have been really bad. But that exciting, that excitement is great, and that I've learned

is more valuable than anything else. Um, And so we go with Everything's already goes to number one in Canada and Nick goes to goes to it with alternative Radio, and we say, the band's ability to say yes is why we're here today. They said yes to everything. We never ever looked at a budget, we never looked at the guarantee, we never it was yes, and we were all collectively digging ourselves into this enormous hole but didn't

give a ship. And so Nix's out there and he's getting this thing and getting this thing, and we die on the vine. Five months into Everything's all right. The first single on our BMG release, Dead Done, Budgets Gone. But we were like that's what I mean, the very first treating us who I have to tell the story when I met Nick, So I don't know where we were, and we were and this guy comes on the bus and like literally like it's like a freaking bull in a china shop, just like you might as well have

kicked the door open. And he's coming in. He's like, yeah, like this that was great, but you should have played more new stuff. And then he and then he starts like talking and he's like for like three hours at night, I heard like every conspiracy theory on the map, like everything everything that Nick is. He was in that first three hours of the medium. Okay, Nick, you're a story. You're from where uh born and raised in Philadelphia. Okay, how do you how do you ultimately get to b MG.

I was going to University of Pennsylvania. I wanted to be in the music industry. I was bartender, went to Penny. I was bartender at three rock clubs, paying my way through school. I was interning at the radio station UH, intern for Epic Records, and interned for m c A UH and then I got UM and I really wanted to get the music business because I in Philadelphia that there was no real radio station playing new music, and w MMR was the only station, but it was classic rock.

So I would see all these amazing bands that I never heard of play in front of very small crowds and just become huge. And I wanted to be part of that. And this is how old are you and what you're it was. I was twenty one, and it was nineteen ninety one, and I graduated at the age of twenty six and ninety six. I was on the six year college plan because I wasn't smart enough to

go to Penn. I kind of conned my way in and uh, so it took me a while and uh and then I went to uh got my first job in l A doing college promotion at m c A, the National Triple A and West Coast Rock Alternative. And

I went to Arista. UH and then I went to go work for Corner CAPH had Red Light Management to head up promotion there in their early days and UM and then went to Vagrant and then BMG bought Vagrant and became the head of promotion there and now I oversee the rock Alternative and Triple A. So that's how I got to where I am on on this. And you know, when I first heard the music, my boss said, you should hear this Glorious Son's it's really good. And Dan,

my boss is very critical. He doesn't say things are very good very often. So I'm like, holy ship. And then I heard it and I'm like, oh my god, every song is great. And to this day I'll tell everyone. You know, they'll be like, what songs should I hear? What's good? And I'm just like, pick any song. They're all great. There's not one bad song, and any of their stuff we took everything is all right because we're we were thinking alternative, alternative, alternative, and we had you know,

we got like a bunch of really good stations. But you know, it was over a six month period and and I think we got into the thirties, but you know, it didn't take off. Meanwhile, I was going to a lot of their shows. The first shows that I went to they were opening up for Greata Van Fleet. The one thing I noticed was is that when they went on, if you just walked into the club and saw them on stage, you would have thought they were the headliner.

Everyone that was there was there to see Greta, and when they saw the Glorious Sons, they freaked out and I, you know, and uh, And I was like, that's another sign because having bar attended in rock clubs for six years, you see how most opening bands get treated, you know, by the audience of the headliner, which is never usually

that good. And I also noticed that the song sought off shotgun s O s. It was getting this like major reaction and people were able to sing along to that song even if they had never heard it before, and it was really connecting it. And then we were having this talk about it being a radio single and the biggest problem in America is you know, lyrics. You got one lyric that could offend one person out of

a thousand, It could just fuck you at radio. And I said, you know, guys, you know we're a land of hypocrisy and school shootings and all this stuff, and even though the song doesn't advocate violence in any way, there could be issues. But then we realized that it was so good, so good of a song, that we

should take that chance. And then right when we were thinking going to go for it, the Parkland shooting happened, and I said, we got we gotta put the brakes on this, and just you know, waited out because the one thing Americans do is they forget very quickly. So it's not off the table forever, it's just off the table until you was in a real important part of this.

He's not giving himself enough credit. He the start of s OS at radio um, there was no budget left, and he went on his own to find one champion at a time to bring back to the table, to go to the label to open up budget. At this point, we are nine months removed from the record coming out, eight months probably in that window, no mudget, No nobody's reinvesting in a record nine months, like it's just not happening.

And while this story, well this is happening. He's going out and champion and on the back of the band playing all those radio shows, not getting the single, but all the promoters and all the show for like this is a real fucking rock and roll band. So they bought into the band even though the song didn't get there. So we built up this good will. And Nick, I'm telling you, if he did not become proactive, and I don't know if it was from me screaming at him

or or our collective love of the band. Um, he went out and one at a time converted top down radio folks on on this band without asking for a dollar and going to the label to get money. And because I think that's a super important part of this. Well, the thing is is that you know, you work at a record label and you see where a lot of money gets spent, and when you see I think it's really important that you invest in potential. It's great when

you sign a big band that has a big history. Um, they may continue to have great success, but it's really important to invest in potential and that and that's what these guys have and they are one of my top five favorite bands of all time, my favorite band that I've ever worked in my career doing radio emotions since ninety six, and I've worked with a lot of great bands, and you know, with a lot of great music, and you know, and the in the record, you know, I

wanted to make sure I said, all right, we're gonna take s OS to rock radio because you know, alternative radio is having an identity crisis. An alternative radio more and more cares more about stream totals than music, and they're also thinking about crossing over to pop. Alternative radio used to be strictly about you know, they were like like the the goth kids in school, and the god

kids would be god kids. But now a lot of alternative programmers want that god kid to be like a cheerleader, you know, or a football player, and they can't accept the fact that they are who they are. So alternative radio is having this a danti crisis. They all they wanted to streams. I said, at least rock radio. A lot of those guys, if they hear a hit, they'll there, They'll still say, I'm going to play that. And so we got and I said, but I'm not gonna start

with super small stations. I'm not gonna be doing promotions turn tricks. I want to get real stations and to lead the way top down on a baby band. And we did that, and you know, we were on We were on the charts for like forty some weeks by the by the time we got to January, the first week of January of two thousand nineteen, we went number one. After like sixteen sixteen weeks removed, yeah, sixteen months removed

from the record coming over. Yeah, and it was like we were on the chart for like, I don't know, like six months, and then we go into January at number one, and then I found out that we were the most played song at Active Rock for two thousand

nineteen on you know, via media base. It was the number one rock record of two thousand nineteen, which was amazing, you know for an unsigned band, and and that you know, that really helped him and the airplay really translated into streams and we were able to see that go up and up and up. Then we try to cross over alternative and we were picking up a lot of stations.

Now we were top thirty at Alternative for twenty seven weeks, which was great, and we peaked at twenty three, but and it was higher than Great Event Fleet or you know, Shine Down or Bad Flour, all these rock bands trying to cross over. And it was over a six month period, and we did get K Rock to add the record, uh and KQUX in Chicago. But right around that point, the station's that Alternative that had played at a thousand times were like it was a huge hit for us.

It was great, but we got it. We're done. And then as soon as you lose your bullet, people are like, oh, you guess it's done. You know, Okay, let's go to today. So where is the band from your perspective today, Nick, Well, you know, the one thing that I always say is that this is a career band. And I always tell you know bands. I said, look, you know, having that hit single, that hit record at radio, you know, that's winning the lottery. That's a shot in the arm, that's

the nitrous in in the gas tank. You know. But at the end of the day, every spin, every added or radio station should be looked upon as like, oh god, you know, it's not about getting that hit. It's about moving the ball forward. It's about being able to sell those extra tickets. It's about turning on an extra fan. You know. This is a band that you know, when you see one hit Wonders, you know, the the label like owns that band, you know, because they've got nothing else.

You know, this is a band that has, unlike most Canadian bands, have put in the blood, sweat and tears to break in the US. People say rock bands from Canada can't break here. Well, that's because if they're huge in Canada, a lot of times they don't want to spend all that money and time, you know, starting over from scratch, but these guys do. And they're the biggest rock band in Canada, playing huge arenas, what fifteen thousand in Toronto. But that they will always They'll be on

the road, they will always have an audience. It will keep growing. Their fans are insane, uh in such a great way u um and um. And they really truly connect emotionally, you know. And that's the thing you mostly, you know, a hit is a big hook, but it has to emotionally connect and we see that connection on the live level. And I think, you know, we're at the band's first We put up our first arena show in Toronto a year and a half ago, and the

whispers were they are fucking crazy. No, like I mean like this isn't like we were getting laughed at all like this. You don't go from doing a couple of club dates at the beginning of the record cycled to this. At the end of the record cycle. We actually got told I wanted this but another band by a member of another band. Um. We were talking about the arena show and he said, you skipped a step, um, And so we we go out and remember no press at this point. Um, we are not a darling of anybody.

And we go out and we do the show and it's it's magical. And the manager, the last manager of the hip guy from Kingston, Bernie Breen, was there. So Bernie takes Ian and I side side stage at that show. And the one thing about that show that validated everything we've believed into this day is from song one to song twenty eight or whatever we played that night, people sang every word. I don't mean the radio records, I mean songs that we've never released all the way through.

And Bernie took En and I side and put his out around us and he's like, just stop for a second. It's like I've seen this once before, and he's just like, be present, enjoy. But as much as that was a victory, one of the reviews of that night was the first half of the write up was I didn't want to be here and I didn't believe that they could. Like that was the narrative. What every review we get is I don't want them to do well. Yeah that was

and we had sold out this arena. It pisces me on so fucking much and if it's not that, it's like they catch us on our worst show of all time and they just slander the ship out of Okay, let's let's forget the reviews from sec read the reviews, because that's a whole rabbit hole. I'd rather not go down right this very second. Many people will say rock is dead. If you look at the Spotify top fifty, there's not one rock track. So what is the future of this band because it's a rock band, What is

the future of rock in the world? At law? Rock is not dead. You're using the wrong metric, So what metrics should we use? I mean you should just go to you know, go to a show, go to any you know club down the street. There's gonna be kids playing the guitar screaming their head off. So why do

you think it's not translating into streams. I mean, you have a good number of streams, double digitmillions, but compared to you know that, it's simple, it's absolutely I study this stuff, and it is because rock as um as early adopter to technology, is not always great. And not only that, it's a specific, singular purchase connection. It's not

a passive listening environment in that same manner. So if you look at iTunes and apples having a tough time doing it is building their rock streaming because iTunes is a very deliberate purchase. Sorry, iTunes is a very deliberate purchase. Where you've got streaming is a passive audience. I think you are looking at passive stream numbers across all the other genres um that have a bit of a baked in number just based on what it is. I do not think rock has fully converted as a genre to

the streaming platforms. I think we are. I think we're the country just came on and look at the last two years of country massive and they are lated doctors. Does that mean that you should create passive listening music? No? You know what I'm saying is the last round of a doctor. So when always rhythmic urban music or the adopters technology history of time, rock the last one to move country as an indicator of that growth is massive. So I believe rock right now would be like buying

property in Manhattan in the thirties. Okay, Nick, what do you think? Um? I think that there's a lot of you know, when you when I talk about alternative and they were like talking to go to pop and the streams. You know, there's a lot of people that listen to rock absorb it differently. A lot of the pop stuff is listened to buy thirteen year old girls that listen to it over and over and over and over again, constantly telling all their friends to listen to it over

and over and over and over again. And that looks great when you're looking at a computer screen and see all those streams, but you don't necessarily see who's all behind it. And you also got to realize that uh more other people are being kidded to other than thirteen year old girls. Thirteen year old girls may drive the industry over al, but you know what I think, and I think people that listen to that did come out bad. But then when people listen to rock music, you know,

they they want to hear a whole album. They have their own collection. They could be a huge fan of a band, but they're not going to listen to one song over and over again. And they may listen to multiple albums or they may also and they also have a large collection of of you know, records that they'll go to, right So it's just a it's a different habit of listening, but they're also more in tune of

being loyal and staying there for the long career. So if you're a fan of a rock band and you know, I always love the Glorious Sons, I will always go to the shows even if I wasn't working them, And the same thing with other rock bands that I love, right So it's it's like, really the long term what

I'm going to give long term? You know, you see those teenage girls that I was talking about in two years, that band that they think is the greatest thing in the world right now, they're going to completely forget about and not even like that's what I was saying. But you're you're using the wrong metric of rock is dead because it's you're based on front facing streaming numbers. You're not based there are I could find ten thousand artists that have more streams in this band that cannot play

the ten people in their city. It's what you use to quantify what is alive and what is dead. And when you're in a room of people that are all on the same page, seeing the same song that's alive, and well, try to get five people to order the same topics on one pizza at a venue in that moment, that singular moment that speaks to how alive it is you. We've got to stop putting that narrative of the consumption. Doesn't it is tied to what something's alive or thriving?

Because would you rather be an artist that has eight million, eighty million streams that will never be able to play a show and never be and you're at the mercy of is that going to continue? I'm I gonna have another hit? Or is healthy and vibrant to you being able to play too? Anywhere from a thousand on a loan to twelve thousand or fifteen thousand. Okay, let's go back. I was at the venue and I noticed to Winnebago when a U wall I presume that you're traveling your

apparatus not anymore, thank god, that's just changed today. No, No, that's uh that we used to travel in that, but we actually travel on a bus now traveling a bus? Okay, so uh, what's the being on the road? Is that good battle? Otherwise? It just depends the day. Really. I mean for myself, I I really enjoyed playing music and being on the road and kind of like that camaraderie that you have with you know, your best friends in a bus and m But I mean, if I have

a bad show, I hate being on the road. Okay. How about you know people say, well, you know, the twenty two hours on the road. Uh, the only reason it works is the one or two hours on stage. Would you agree with that? Absolutely? Okay? And the other thing, if we go back to rock and roll, the rock and roll acts of the classic rock era, they went on the road, and let's say they misbehaved in the hotel rooms and they part took of certain opportunities. To what degree do you do that? To what degree was

that inhibited by mobile phone cameras? Well, we don't have the money to trash hotel rooms yet, so that's not been a thing. Um. But we have fun. We just go out and have fun. We honestly, like, right from the first day we ever hit the road, I treated it like this is never gonna happen again, so let's enjoy it while we're here. I mean, now it's more of a career and you have to be sensible, and you can't you can't go gang busters every night. But we have fun, Okay, well, let's go. You know you

mentioned Rush earlier. Uh, those are nice guys. You know. Obviously Neil Purt has passed away and they probably won't play under the same name or whatever, maybe ever again. But I've been to Rush shows and you can count the number of women there a couple of So I went to your show last night, forty or fifty percent of the audiences women. Do you have any idea why that's the case. Uh, that's that's very new. I mean we're probably lucky last night. Realistically, I don't think so

it's my songs. Yeah, I'm a sensitive man, and I mean I think I think that's what. Okay, Well, let me ask you this and you can answer any way. Would you like, is there still a groupie seen in the rock and roll world? I don't think. I just like it could be dudes too. Like we've see people up in every city. It's like, it's not droopies. It's like people who love your music who end up hanging out with you. It's like, I mean, it's like the dead so Brett having seen you and not having seen

you before. You're quite the dynamic front man, and certainly even if the audience isn't reacting, You'll energize them. Where does that come from? I don't know. I'm crazy, man. When I was younger, I was the entertainer and the joker, and you know, the cry baby and the and the and then you know, I don't want to say the talented one, but the you know, the okay. But the difference is most people save the sing along to the end of the set. Yeah, where you started, It's essentially

started off with that. That's a big risk. People may not sing. Yeah, well, we try to take risks every night. But I mean, I know people are going to sing in my heart of hearts, I feel like that's okay. But you're up on stage. You know, you're you know, you're moving, You're not staying in one place. You're exhorting, imploring the audience. That just feels totally natural to you. I mean it hurts sometimes and you uh, you lose your wind um, But I mean I never knew that

there was another way to do it. Well, do you ever every night you hit the stage saying I'm gonna win the audience? Yes, and I haven't before, That's my question. And I've also crumbled on stage before. But there are some nights no matter what you try, it doesn't work. Okay, So what's the next step? Obviously, you sell arenas in Canada, Okay. And this is probably more of a question for Jason and Nick. How do you make it bigger? Which is always a desire and you want to push the button? Okay,

you can answer. I think that. I mean, we've been pounding the pavement for like, I don't know, like seven years. I mean, there hasn't been a year that we haven't played over six shows, Like, we haven't been on the road for six of the year like in like three or four years. So I truly believe at some point it's time to kind of take a step back and relax. You know, you don't want to rest on your laurels. You want to still be working. But I don't think

that you can go forever like that. It's it's gonna turn very badly. It's it won't go go on that way. Okay, But let's just assume this is as big as you ever get it. You're happy with that. Um. I think that's kind of a state of mind that I've been kind of dealing with and trying to figure out as a just as a person, you know, not as a you know, rock entertainer. For myself, I I want to have seven billion people here the songs we write, that is,

that's that's what we're doing out here. And we're always going to be, you know, guys with good work ethic and and I mean, maybe those opportunities don't come. You know, I think there's a lot of luck in this business. Not to downplay anybody's work ethic or what they have done here, but there's a lot of luck that goes into this whole business as well. And I mean it's very hard work. But some people, some bands are great, and they never they never even get it shot, They

never get out of their hometown. And I mean we I'm playing in front of fifteen thou people. I mean that's insane. You know, guys he didn't know what a producer is, who didn't have guitar pedals, who never owned a guitar pedal for the first three years of our career, are playing in front of fifteen thousand people. I mean, just that inble. But but I only only only you can answer. But there's certainly there's certain inherent limits that

other people have hit tragically. Hip biggest being in Canada, never really made it in the US. A lot of acts you talk on the rock charts, you mentioned the Truths, etcetera, they are not big in America. So in addition to playing rock and roll, which is the hardest and the lengthiest time. So do you feel that, hey, you know, it's more different, cold to make it outside of your

home country. Well, I think that there's so many more people in this country and so many more bands, and and I don't like and like Nick has described word career band like this isn't about racing to the top right now, and not in my eyes. I think you have to get to hit the road and play it smart and have fun and get better at your job, and you know, learn and write great songs and you know, feed a sense of community into people and truly love what you do. And I think if you can do

all those things, I think that you can. You know, you can create magic, like real magic and it and I would love to do that forever. I just don't want to do it all at once. Well, how many shows are you are they playing? At least I think they count. The five year count was just under eight shows. Okay, So Nick how important radio today and breaking a band

it certainly rock band. Well it's uh, you know, everyone likes to trash radio, you know, and they like to say it's all about the internet, but radio is still really important. When managers sign a band or a record label, it's it's always about sync, international radio. Those are the three things that everybody wants. And anyone will tell you that when you get a lot of airplay, you sell a lot more tickets. Uh, you know, you'll get more streams,

you know. And I love seeing the magic. I've been doing radio promotion, like I said, for over twenty years, and to me it's magic, you know, to witness Brett create magic and something out of nothing. And then I get to be a soldier and go out there and get people to hear it and turn people onto it, and then travel to that city and see people reacting to that song and singing along and going crazy and screaming when they hear the song that they heard in

the radio. People are still listening to the radio. And also, you know, uh, when you talked at one point, you talked about filters, right, there's there's a lack of filters. Yes, there's playlists, but they're limited. And you know, a lot of radio stations still play a part in being a filter of new music because people don't have the time to sit in front of the Internet and try to find the stuff that they like. So whether it's rock or alternative or you know, Triple A or non com radio, um,

there is still that discovery. And a lot of times what you see is the most consumed online and the most talked about on socials is what's getting the most played, you know, at radio. When we were in Philly the last time we were, like the last time they were in Philly, they sold out like a two hundred cap room. And then when we go back to Philly and it was over eight hundred tickets sold uh a year later and uh, and I'm seeing W M. M. Mart shirts

on like like all over the place. And that's the radio station that has adopted this band and has really loved this band and has them live on air on their morning show to perform an interview. And today most radio stations they won't put a band on the morning

show for an interview and performance. They'll put them in a in a in a side room and videotape it for YouTube and and sell it to an advertiser, not that it's a bad thing and it doesn't give me the awareness, but you know, on MMR, I'll have fifty people in the top five market hearing them talk and then find out that there was over a hundred tickets old you know, online day of show because of that. So that's what drives me to do this. Okay, so

we've we've really gotten the groundwork here. What is the next step and how big can the glory of Suns becoming? What is your goal? We are a record cycle and a half behind where we are in Canada. We are seeing the exact same metrics, the same lit mistest of

how it's growing. We're seeing the same grow almost to a chart if you put it behind it, I think all the things that Brett is saying, the things that you can control and the love of it, and that will lead to the next success because we've already proven this concept and we didn't prove it on the back of these elements that we don't control. We proved it based on what works for this band and what we

want to do. And now we've applied it into the arguably easily the yard the largest music market on the planet and we are going from two hundred to eight hundred. We're going from three hundred to nine hundred, like we're seeing it Detroit, We're going from three D. Nick did a great sales pitch on radio in terms of selling those overall tickets. Are they all sold by radio or what do you think is driving that consumption? I think it's this fan base. I think we have this rapid

community of people. I'm at a couple in Seattle last year that have been to four shows. They were not nineteen years old, and they met us after the show in Seattle and they've been to four shows Portland's seah I came remember the other ones, the fat fan community and the people being the start of the megaphone that believe that everything this band does comes from a place of true heart and integrity are preaching at to everybody.

I think definitely that like we might not have the most fans, but our fans probably annoy the hell out of people with how much So how did you end up opening for the Stone? Well, we're actually talking about this in an argument and a heated discussion about production costs.

We Mark Norman signed the band to a g on a global touring deal, and he's like, maybe one day we could play you guys could play with the Stones, and obviously huge We're all huge Stones fans, and so I'm having this conversation, Um, this is our first club tour in Canada, and I'm putting the pitch in and Mark, it goes to the Stones team and it goes from I think it goes like Ronnie, Charlie, Keith, Nick Mick.

It goes like that's how it goes. Then it got somewhere in the middle and then they're like, I don't know if they can handle a big stage because we hadn't played an arena yet. We were a club act from Canada. But they're like, oh, we like it. So we play our first hometown show arena showing Kingston people. Um spent a lot of money on production at I was a bit of a punching bag taking for that.

Filmed it, put an edit together, sent it to a g who sent it through to the Stones, and I was on a beach in Miami with my wife and I got a phone call saying do you want to go to Marseilles and open for the Stones? And the first call I made was to you, and I think it's like, it's probably the only time I've been excited in the last ten years. It was unbelievable. So we're going, We're going. We had to move mountains, cost us a

bunch of money to go do it. We do that show, um, and then we got to do it again this summer in Toronto, and um if it came from the way Nick believes in the band, the way I believe in the band, the way the fans believe in the band. Mark Norman believed in the band and advocated in places that we would never be able to touch. And so when Brett says we may not have the most fans, we for sure I have real special ones that feel like kinship to this and that is going to be

the key to how we become a household name. And it reverberates all around too, Like I don't think there's a single passive person working for us, like on any step, Like everybody with us wants the same thing. And I mean Jason calls the world domination, but I mean we we just want to see We just want people to hear hear this and and to take the ride with us. And I think on that note we've covered the story

of the Glorious Sons to date. One thing I will say is you know you are an amazing frontman, Brett, and the band is very dynamic live and I'm not blowing smoke up your ass. So therefore, in terms of going to see as they say, you had a very engaged audience when I saw you at the l Ray many event gentlemen, Thanks for doing this till next time. This is Bob Leftstond