Taylor Momsen

and uh and uh. We actually made the last record there, so it was that that became my second home, and um, I love it. It's great. Okay, means a big state and I don't want to know the exact address, but do you live like close to Boston near Portland's up in the Boonies. We're in Maine area. I live about forty five minutes from Portland, but it's on an island, so it's very much it's very Stephen king Esk in the middle of nowhere, very Horrorville, which I love. It's

it's right on the water, which is awesome. Um, very beautiful, but very very isolated, which is it's kind of perfect because I split my time between New York City and Maine, so it's it's the exact opposite of New York City, which is is great for writing when you need to kind of get inside your own head and you know, check out from the rest of the world. It's perfect.

And how do you get to the island. You drive, it's not it's like there's a bridge, but it's a very tiny little island with like ten houses and is your house on the water? It is on the water. It's actually on stilts in the water, which in the winter can be a bit scary. Uh. There's always a quick chance that it might collapse into the ocean, and that can be a little nerve wracking when those gusts are coming through. But uh, but no, it's it's very cool and very very key to have found a very

unique place like that. Okay, and electricity internet cable is all regular speed or you know, you have the curse of the boonies. Nah, there's a bit of a curse. The internet, you know, kind of goes in and out the waters island water, so it's kind of crappy. Um, but but it's it's also you know, it's still a modern house too. I mean it's actually was built a very long time ago. It was built in like the nine,

but but it's been modernized since. And are you a loner or is this just a good place to be? I'm I think it kind of depends on the month. I mean we're on tour. I'm certainly not a loner, but uh, I know I'm kind of a I would say I'm a loner. I have very few friends, and you know, very close friends, but very few. And I very much appreciate my my alone time and my privacy, just me and my dog hanging out and writing music. And how far away are your bandmates? I'm not too far.

I mean the couple of our new hand sure guitar player Ben's also in Maine and New York. He splits his time as well like I do. Um, so not not too far. But we rehearsed in Maine. I we have rehearsal space right down the street from me, which is awesome. We finally put that together and it's it's very good. It's in an old armory, which is very cool. Um, very grungy, and uh, I don't know rustic, I guess, for lack of a better word, but it's it's it's awesome.

You can just make noise all the time. And we finally set that up, which took about ten years to get an actual official rehearsal space for us. So it's, uh, I've been a long time coming. And what's a typical day for you when you're not rehearsing. What's a typical day look like in Maine? Um? Pretty boring, honestly. Uh, you know, wake up, feed the dog, have some coffee. Uh, check the weather, go for a walk, work out a little bit, um, play music, write songs. Kind of. I

kind of stay in my house a lot of the time. Um. Of course, when it's beautiful in the summer, I love to swim, um in kayak. But I'm a big, big swimmer. I do you know, lapse of for hours in the ocean. Um, so that's kind of that's my main hobby. I guess that. And yeah, wait a second, at this time of year in June, the water is really cold. It's really cold. It's it's even cold in August, like even in peak swimming time. It's freezing never and we don't get that

nice California water. So you just jump in and then endure the shock and wait till you adjust pretty much. Yeah, and and you know, swim until I can't feel my hands and feed me more. That's always a good time to get out when you go numb. Okay, You're band members are older than you? Correct? How much older are they? Um? I mean that's a good question. I don't even know their actual ages. Um, I just just a number, Bob, You know this, it's all about kindred spirits and that's

how I look at it. But they're they're like ten years older than me. Does had you know, affect frame of references or any positive or negative to them being older than you? No? Um, I think you know. When we formed the band, it was they were seasoned musicians, which was wonderful for me. Um. They they actually the band came about quite organically. We um. The three of them, Mark, Ben and Jamie were actually in a band together for

many years. And I met I was a singer songwriter, and I was kind of doing the rounds of working with different producers and meeting different people, and I had always wanted to be in a band. That was always my goal and I had had like, you know, middle school bands and things like that, but nothing serious. And uh.

I met our producer Cato while doing the rounds of meeting everyone, and we hit it off immediately, and he introduced me to Ben, our guitar player, and threw bound I'm at the rest of the band, and I essentially heard their band and went, well, I just want I want to be in your band, but I want to write the songs and I want to be a singer. And so that's pretty much what happened. Um. We kind of just come comborn combined forces and the pretty recklessness.

So how do you write the songs? Um? I get asked this so much and I wish that there was a let me ask you a different question before. Do you write them alone or in concert with the other band members? Uh? Well, Ben and I are the two song writers of the band, so the two of us are the only writers, um, and we have a really good thing going. I it's there's no formula, and that that you know that presents challenges. I wish there was.

I wish there was a way too. I mean, I know how to write in a formula, but that's just I don't find that pleasurable. That's not that's not why I make music. I make music to express myself and when I have something to say, say it, and um, you know, music writing music was always this outlet for me, uh that it's where I could really be myself and really say what I felt and what I thought. And it was kind of this this way that I could process my emotions and my my thoughts and my brain

and kind of control the world around me. I guess, or let or let let go of the control of the world around me. I don't really. It was just this place where I could be very honest. Um. And so I fell in love with songwriting at a very young age. And when I met Ben, he had a very similar ethic to me in writing, and it just was this kind of seamless transition as to writing together. And and there is no formula. That's what makes the challenging. There is no it starts with the guitar starts here.

It just the simple answer is it just it starts with an idea and that can come from anywhere, and that's that's what makes it tortuous, as you never know where it's going to come from or if it's going to come and and that can be a very scary um time period, especially when you're trying to you know, write in a new record and you don't know, you don't know where to begin, um. And so it's a

lot of waiting around. Honestly, it's a lot of waiting around for inspiration and something to strike you and that turns into a song. And does he always do the music, you always do the lyrics? Or do you share those? Now we share everything. It's you know, each song is done very differently. Um, Like I said, kind of the only common thing is that it starts with an idea and that can be a lyric, that could be a chord, that could be a the sky looks pretty today, like

it get start at any from any place. Sometimes songs come in five minutes. Sometimes they take five years, you know. So it's um, it's it's it's interesting. I like I said, I always might. I have this stupid joke that I always say, and I always say, if I knew where inspiration came from, I'd move there. It would make my job a whole lot easier. But unfortunately I don't, So you just have to kind of wait around for something

to strike you. And I mean, and there's there's a process, I guess, not a process, but a way of doing that, which is when I'm when I'm looking to write something, um, when I get that itch if I haven't done it in a while, or when I'm trying starting to write a new record, I surround myself with art and from you know, reading books and watching great films and uh, listening to great records, and you know, taking long walks and looking at great going to museums, looking at great art,

anything that's anything that could spark some sort of an idea. And by listening and looking at the greats that have come before me that I always find that very inspiring. It just kind of puts my mind in a in a place, in a settled place to begin, I guess, let's go step by step in the nuts and bolts. And I know every story is different. Do you write in the same room, do you either he or he gets an idea, then you get in the same room.

Do you send things back and forth? I know where there's no road way to do it, but generally, how does it go? All of the above? I mean, I've lived in the same apartment in New York for at right now, for over ten years now, and so this place, I think this place has some giju in it. Um. I've written pretty much all of all of our songs here except for the ones that I wrote in Maine. Um. The only kind of constant is its I tend to need isolation to write, at least at least to really

get to the core of it. Like I'm I'm always jotting down ideas and and things, but to really kind of hone in on what I'm trying to say and really focus it into a song that takes That takes isolation, that takes away, that takes being away from people like so, I tend to not write complete songs very often on

the road, um, just because it's the whole. It's a whole whirlwind of you know, a different kind of lifestyle that I hear You're very focused on that, and so I it I need that kind of divide and step back from life almost to be able to kind of put my brain in the right mindset. And if that makes it okay, Let's say you have an album you want to do, you need material. How long do you have to be in isolation to get there. Oh man again,

I wish I knew. I mean, I think that's probably why there's a we have some space in between our albums. I mean this last record, Uh, I wrote over the course of probably two years, three years. Um. So it's it's I don't know. I don't. I don't do it like that. I don't write. I don't. I guess I said, I sit down to write a record, but it's it's not like that. It's not like, Okay, I'm going to write an album in the next two months or whatever.

It's more I'm I'm always writing songs, and once I have a collection of songs that are succinct and I'm proud of and fit under the umbrella of a record that tell this kind of complete story. Um, and I feel like that chapter is complete, then then you make an album. If that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely so you said earlier, this is where you can be honest, this is where you can be free. What is the message you want to get across. It's a very good question.

I don't. I don't know that I have a message like that. I think, Um, I think, I just I write music to express myself and it makes me feel good and it makes me feel better about life. UM. And I think that, you know, it's it's where I can deal with my problems. It's where I can uh. But like at this this last album for example, like

I don't know that there's a message per se. I think by the time the album was finished and I could take a step back from it, um and listen to it almost from an outside perspective, I realized that it was actually a very hopeful record. And I think that that's kind of what the message became. UM that after all this turmoil and very we went through a

lot of trauma and tragedy in the past few years. Well, I was before I was writing the album, or while I was writing the album, and uh, and I think when I took a step back from that, you know, the writing of it and the making of the album was me processing and dealing with everything I had gone through, and it was kind of almost like my therapy. Um. And then when I got to the other side of it and actually listened to the record it, I saw

that it was this very hopeful album. And so I think that became the message of death by rock and roll, of there is light at the end. Of the tunnel if you want to see it. And you know, even when things seem very bleak and bad, things do get better. And and I think that that's you know, that's kind

of what that album became. So I don't think I have one general message that I'm trying to convey to the world or in part other than rock and roll is awesome and I'm playing guitars school and writing music is super fun. Well, you know, let me let me there's a conundrum at the heart of some of the greatest artists. They channel their individualism and it resonates with everybody,

but they're one step removed. They feel like they're in their own space or they're alone, or like, you know, so you certainly had a lot of success being around other people, and certainly if you listen to the earlier material, it seems like a reaction to that. So, you know, do you feel like you're in your own world and therefore you can only just uh, just tell your truth in the songs or you're a pretty active social person and then you get to be yourself, but you write

songs too. No, I kind of feel like it's the first one. I mean, I definitely feel like like I said, music is where I can be myself. Music is where I can process my life. Um and and and you know, and you can only write. You can only write what you know. You can only write your experience as your life. And you know, sometimes if you're if you're daring, you can delve into things that you see and people that are around you and then you can write about that.

But it's it's a very personal thing because there is you can You're limited to only what you know and what you feel. And that's so that's that's what I do. That's that's how I I don't know, it's just it's how I think. Like writing songs make sense to me. Music has always made sense to me. It's just the language that I understand, um and never really was taught. It just was. It always spoke to me in a

way that nothing else did. And so getting to create something from nothing and and purely express yourself is such a gift. But it's also it can be very lonely because you know, even even if people connect to it and understand it, they never will connect to it and understand it on the level that I do or I feel. If that that makes sense, Okay, the band is going on the road. Uh, is that something you like to do?

I do? Especially now. Well, it's it's a catch twenty two now because COVID is still going on, but especially now, it's been a long time, like uh, because we lost a lot of people very close to us. I kind of went into isolation. We made the record, so it was about five years until since we had toured UM and so to finally be able to play the new songs off the new record and be back out on the road in front of the fans, it's such a breath of fresh air after a five year long break,

which was not intentional, um, but it is. It is still challenging with COVID though, Like you have to be very very safe, so it's uh, you kind of you live in a bubble, so it's it makes it a little less fun, but in one way, it makes the shows even more rewarding because that's really your that's where you get to um have all the fun because everything else is really boring. Right, So what works in terms of performance? How do you make the audience connect with

you beyond the songs themselves. That's a very good question. Um, I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I don't, I've never I'm not one to super analyze what I do because I think if I start to do that, then I'll get too in my head about it. Um. So as far as performing goes, I just try to sing as well as I can and and perform as honestly as I can, and really think about what I'm saying and what I'm singing, and and try to connect to the audience that way, and and just by being

very honest. And then there's also a you know, an element of showmanship of course, when you're on a stage that you know, there's lights and there's just makeup, and there's you know a bit of extra you know, moving around that you don't do in the recording studio and things like that. But uh, you know that that makes for a fun show. But honestly, I think the the most fun and the connection comes from the fans being

so into it, if that makes sense. And so you can really it's this it's a it's a drug that you can't really get anywhere else playing live because you create this kind of symbiotic relationship with the fans where you essentially become one in this in this nightly experience that only lasts for one night and then you move on to the next town, and it's it's the same experience but completely different. And so that it's it's always

it's like groundhog Day, but never the same. So it's it's very cool, it's a very it's it's difficult to call it a job. Um, it's it's super super fun. The job is the travel, the draw, The job is everything around touring, but playing is simply a pleasure. Okay, do you have a set list you use every night or does the set list change? The set list is

always ever of all vena. This is this is the first, and I won't say the first, but close to the first time that we've actually had an issue putting a set list together because we finally have we have so much material now that we don't know how to hone it down. Um, but you know, so we we put together kind of a roundabout set lists depending on what

the shows are for. If it's an opening slot you have x amount of time, a festivality of x amount of time, and a headline show, you have obviously much more leeway to kind of play with um and do

what you want. But so we have kind of three set lists based on times that we work with and then depending on the night, depending on how I'm feeling and how the guys are feeling, we we alternate a few songs and um, switch it up and and and that's making it that's making tour and excuse me, that's making touring very fun this time around two is that it's not the same show every night, so it doesn't get monotonous. It doesn't become this kind of your board

of the material by the third week. You know. Okay, let's assume you are the opening band, which you certainly have been a number of times in your career. Even worse, you might even be playing in daylight and it's it's really the headliners audience and you play. How do you win over the audience? Mm hmmm, I don't know. I wish I again, I wish I had a good answer. I wish there was some little trick that you could do that it would just magically make everyone love you.

But unfortunately that's not how the world works. So we really just I, you know, I try to treat opening shows or any show like it's our own show. And that's how that's how I approach it like, we put on the best show we possibly can, you know, play the hell out of the songs, and and hope that people like it and hope that they respond to it. And you can't expect everyone in the in the world

to love you like that's just an unrealistic goal. So, um, I think our our goal is to put on a show that we're proud of, that we like because I love playing in a band. Because I love playing in a band. So if I'm having fun, you know, pathetically, you should be having fun too. I hope that that translates. Okay, so every act needs fans to survive, but the fans want a lot. What is your personal relationship with fances, Like, you know, are there twenty people you know by face,

you know by name? Do you want to keep everybody at arm's length? What's the situation? Um? Well, social media has certainly changed the relationship with fans drastically, um because when we started a social media was around, but it was certainly not what it is today. Um. So I think that, you know, it's a bit of both. I think there's there's some super fans that come to every show and follow us around the country. And I, you know, follow them on Twitter and we'll chat, and I see

their faces everywhere and know who they are. And then there's the kind of the mass, the masses of where I don't know you individually, but I'm very appreciative of of your support because I can't do this without them, And you know, I can still write songs and I'd probably still be making records, but you know, no one would hear them if I didn't have any fans. So it's, uh,

it's I feel very fortunate to have fans. And it's a it's a fine line of because I'm a very I'm a very private person and so I kind of struggle writing that line with social media of how much of my life do I share and how much do I keep private? And I think that it's a it's a balance and a kind of teetering act that I'm always playing with and trying to get more comfortable with sharing more of myself, but at the same time, um keeping myself protected to a degree to where I can

still be myself. And that's not that's not for every you know, that's not for everyone. Not everything about me is for everyone. Everything everything that I put into the music and that I put forth into the world is for everybody. But the you know, I still have my private life that I keep just for myself as a human beings. So it's this fine balance that I'm always kind of toying with, and I still haven't quite figured

it out. I think, well, if you had any personal bad experience this result of fans, you know, one in ten fans is literally certifiably insane. It's just you don't know which one it is. We have certainly had some some crazy experiences with fans, some that have gotten a bit out of hand, um, more physical. I mean, well, no, it's but there's been both. I mean, I don't I

can't get into it. But we've had stalker issues with where literally the FBI has been called and been deposed and and you know, very serious issues that I'm not actually really allowed to talk to talk about. Um. So there's that side of things, which is super fun and totally totally not scary at all. Um. But then there's you know, the crazy encounters that shows and things where like we I used to bring I used to bring fans up on stage during a song called going Down.

That was this very fun moment in the show, and I did that for years, and we went to We're playing in China, and I brought fans up and the chaos that ensued on stage, the the aggression and mayhem where it just it got a little out of hand and we didn't have security and it got dangerous where my hair was ripped out of my head a girl. The groping became very um unmanageable where I couldn't defend myself,

and so we had to stop doing that. So there's, you know, certain antics we had to kind of tone down just for personal safety, physical safety and things like that. But but in general, I think fans are just they're just enthusiasts. You know, I'm a fan. I'm a fan of music. So it's it's getting to see your artists. You want to let loose and have fun, but you know, just just don't go just don't go too far. Okay,

you started off with theme from television. Was that a good thing or a bad thing for your musical career? I think it was a catch twenty two. I think I think that in in one way it was. It was great because I had, you know, I had some name recognition, and so when we put out the first album, there was an immediate kind of there's an immediate attention put on it where you know, it was put out in a in a real way where you know, we

could play a show and people would show up. Um. But in the grand scheme of things, I think that it was actually quite detrimental because it was a It was an extremely hard thing to overcome people's perception of me and that you know, people saw me as this character that they watched on TV every week. And I fully understand that. I fully understand watching your favorite TV show and seeing that actor as the character that you see on television. They're not a real person, they're that character.

And so to kind of to disassociate myself from that character and have people see me as myself and as a musician and and as everything that I truly was inside was was challenging. And to kind of gain you know, there was a hurdle to kind of overcome, to gain credibility, where I think a lot of people saw this as like some sort of vanity project or this fleeing thing, like, oh, well, she's putting on a record because she can and whatever. When and when in reality, it was music is everything.

That I am and everything that I have to give, and I was trying to share that with the world and getting kind of hit from me from multiple sides of it's hard to it's hard to prove yourself and and because there's no real way to do it, there's no good way to do it. You can't sit there and tell someone no, I'm this, and they're going to no, you're this, and that arguing about it doesn't do anything.

So it really just took time. It took to doing this for ten years and continuing to put out music and continuing to tour to have people kind of have that shift happened where people see me as Taylor Mompson and not this character I played, And so that was a bit of a challenge, but it's it feels good

to be on the other side of it finally. Okay, when you made this transition, talking about the insight, you know, you have an age and maybe you have a manager, you have an attorney, you have people are making money from you. Okay, what did they say when you wanted to be a musician? Oh man, they were not well when I when I said that I wanted to pursue music, they were all for that when I said I wanted to quit everything else to pursue music, and that was that.

Gods of phone calls. People were not happy about that, um, because it was actually it was a big fight of mine. Um. You know, I was on the show gossip Girl and it was doing extremely well. And I became as I was getting older. You know, I started acting when I was two years old. I was put into it with my family. Um. You know, no no resentment there or anything. You know. I think all those stories kind of got

blown out of proportion. When I was younger, I said some crazy things and they got taken out of context. But you know, I started acting when I was very young. But it was never this. It was never something that I chose for myself. It was something that I just always did and I didn't really know any differently. And when I started to get a little older in my teenage years, I had this kind of revelation where I realized, oh, I don't I don't have to do this, Like this

is a job that I can quit. And it was like this, you know, lightning one off in my mind where it was like, oh, this is so simple. I can just play in a band. I can just write songs and do what I love. I don't have to do this other thing amazing woman to do that. And so when I made that decision in my head and then proceeded to tell everyone that, that's when I got a bit of, you know, a bit of a reaction,

but a bit of backlash. And it was it was actually quite challenging to leave the show because I was under contract. So it turns out quitting was not that easy. Um, And so it was that it was a very long process of me trying to get out of out of the show. And I really came down to I had to call. I called Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage, the Cree leaders and writers, and begged them. I just begged them. I want this is making This isn't making me happy anymore.

This is this is this is not what I want to be doing with my life. I'm very thankful for everything you've given me and the platform that you've put me on, and this has all been a great experience. But I'm as a person and as a as a growing woman, I need to go explore what I really want to do. And they because cw the head of Warren brothers had a c W. He was not uh, he was not going to let me out of my contract. So there was no way to get out of it.

And so thankfully Stephanie and Josh, actually they want, we can't let you out of your deal, but what we can do is we can write your character out. Um. So that's what they did, and so they slowly kind of transition my character out of by writing it that way and allowed for me to go on tour and and really pursue my passion. And for that, I'm just forever grateful and indebted because they just they didn't have to do that, and I wouldn't be where I am

now if they hadn't. So I'm just can't say thank you to them enough. Okay, if you're working on a TV show until you're on hiatus, the hours are unbelievably long, you know, and you almost can't live a life. So you can look at your bank account. You're getting paid, but you're not really spending any money, not thinking about it. And certainly once the show was picked up, it gets relatively lucrative. Generally speaking, music doesn't pay that well, especially

not at the beginning. So once you got to the other side, you're extricated, you make a record. Whatever did you ever think, holy funk, what did I do? Or did you say, wait a second, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. Well, first of all, I was making to speak about long hours for a second, because yeah, they're long hours. I mean, I was making the first album Light Me Up while I was still

on the show. So I was going to work at four in the morning, working until about seven at night, and then going straight to the studio and king in the studio toel I don't know, two in the morning, sleeping about two hours a night, and going right back to work. So I was burning the candle at both ends.

And I think that was part of my decision to leave the show as well as It's just like I can't physically do both these things and one of them I love and can't not do um, So that was that was a challenge, and it's I get well now, I just kind of lost my train of thought because what was your question. I'm sorry, Bob. You know, once you finally extricate yourself and you are a musician, did you have any second thoughts and did you ultimately confront

money issues? Like, Wow, this is gonna be hard. I'm gonna have to adjust things. Well. Money issues, of course, money issues is always a I think that's something that no matter what level of life you've reached, you're always you know, I think even the biggest actors in the world, you know, they still have money issues, right, Like doesn't everyone, So you know that's but that's something that's something you

figure out as you go. Um as far as thinking did I make the right decision or or asking anything like that, that was that was never a question. As soon as I left and was just doing music full time, I finally felt free. I finally felt happy in a way that I'd never I never really felt in my life before. And then that's you know, that's the feeling that I wouldn't trade anything for. You know, I'll be broken. I'd rather be broken happy than rich and and unhappy.

You know. Okay, you grow up in Seeing Louis, how do you end up in show business? It's a good question. I again, none of this is from my memory, but the story goes uh that I my mom had some photographer friends who took some photos of me when I was like one and two. They somehow got sent to a modeling agency. Um, I got so, I got it started with I got signed to Ford Modeling when I was two and somewhere and going on calls for modeling gigs. I I guess I was very chatty. I'm not I'm

not sure. I remember myself being a very shy kid, but I guess I was very talkative when I was little. And uh, my modeling agents said, you know, she should go on auditions, and so that was kind of the quick transition and to suddenly I was going on acting auditions. And I actually booked my first audition, which was for a commercial for Shake and Bake, and so that was kind of, you know, the opening of the doors, I guess. And from that it was just my my family, Mom

and I would travel and go on auditions. We'd spend summers in New York. Um, and just go back and forth. I was kind of in and out of school and um, yeah, and then that's kind of how that happened. Okay, so how many kids in the family, Just me and my younger sister. Okay, the younger sister followed this path at all. She she went on some auditions when she was younger, but she didn't. It wasn't the same thing as it

was with me. So she did a couple of small roles when she was younger, and then that was it. And what did your father do when you and your mother were out working? He worked. He was a full time a full time job. I still never really understood what he did, but when he does. He he worked with electronics. He worked for a company called gp X. UM. I don't know if you remember that he designed the

discman like he before computers and stuff. He would draw the actual like what the new walkman and stuff would look like. Um. So he was on the creative side of of physical uh music players, which was actually quite cool. And then uh, and now he works for now he's works for another company. And I probably shouldn't go into what he does because I don't know if he'd like that. But but he was. He was at home working, and my mom and I would travel. And with your mom

when you're two years old, that's fun. At some point, he gets old. At some point. I don't know that the travel ever got old. I loved going to different places. I loved New York City because that's where it started. Is we would we would go to New York in the summers when I was out of school and uh, you know, kind of rent a place for a couple of months and I'd go on auditions and and do that thing there, and I fell in love with the city. Was so it makes it makes a lot of sense

that I still live here. Um. I love the energy of it. And so the traveling I think was actually quite fun. But the constantly not really being in school and not really having a a traditional childhood, I guess certainly kind of took its toll on me in certain ways where I became very introverted because I didn't have

a lot of friends. I didn't know how to connect to normal kids my age, I guess because I was living in this very different life than they were, and so it put me in this very kind of isolated internal bubble, which is honestly when I turned to writing music, I started writing music before I even really knew what

I was doing. I guess I started writing songs and you know, just how I was feeling, and I write it down and I put it to melody and little poems and things as as a kid like, you know, terrible songs, but songs nonetheless, and that's kind of where I fell in love with it. Of this, of this this world that I could create inside my own head, that nobody he could touch, and it was just mine. And um, it made me feel safe, I guess. So

what was it like going to school? And then eventually when you get on a series, you're not in regular school at all? No? Um, well in I mean elementary school was in then out of school a lot uh where. But I was still in school. I was in Catholic school. And so when I would go do a role or something, um and be gone for a couple of months, the school would give me my work and I would do it on set with a tutor. Um. So I was

technically still enrolled in a school. And then when I moved to New York when I booked Gossip Girl, I moved here when I was twelve or thirteen. Um, officially, I spent about it. I spent my freshman year of high school trying to go to a school, trying to go to a public school here in the city. Um, and just the work hours are so nuts that I gave up on that. I gave up on that and left and and just homeschooled and ended up graduating high

school when I was like sixteen. Um, just by doing it on set with the tutor and just knock on the workout. Do you have any regrets you didn't go to college. No, I don't, but I thought about it. I wanted to go for like for writing or something, you know, something language arts or something like that. But I also think that college is something that you can always go back to. UM. And I'm I wouldn't say that.

I never would do that either, if you know, if I wanted to learn a different skill, because I think it's always good to better yourself, but you can do that at any age. UM. But no, I joined a rock and roll band. There's no regrets. What sixteen year old doesn't want to fift I'm sorry, fifteen year old doesn't want to be in a rock and roll band and tour of the country. I got to do that and it's awesome. Okay, so you're on a TV show. What's it like having all that attention? Um? It was.

It was definitely different than what I was used to because I had been you know, I had been acting my whole life, and I've been in lots of roles and you know, some more high profile than other but

never involved in the tabloid aspect of things. And Gossip Girl was a that was a transition to get in, an adjustment, to get used to where suddenly and you walked out of your house there was you know, paparazzi on the street and they're following you around and uh, and suddenly your personal life became public literally being photographed and put into into for public consumption. And so that was that was different. That was strange, um because it

happened overnight too. It was very There was no like slowly getting more and more famous. It was no one knows who you are, and the next day there's thirty people outside your house. And so it was very shocking, I think at first. But I think I've adapted quickly to it and and kind of got used to it. And you know, I think Liam is Liam Gallagher. I think Liam Gallagher said, He's like, you know, fame is this kind of thing that you just keep keep kicking

over your shoulder. It's this this this nuisance. It's there, but it's you know, it's not what it's about. It's it's very fleeting, and it's just this thing that is around and you just learn to manage it. Okay, A lot of people who are very famous at that age grow up very fast. They drink, they do drugs, they have sex. What was your experience, Well, um, I think if you listen to my albums, it's probably some indication of what my life is like. Um But no, I

mean I I certainly grew up very quickly. Um. I you know I've never had friends at my own age that all my friends are older than me, even when I was like a kid. Um but I think that's just that's just subject to my surroundings. You know, That's not that wasn't necessarily by choice. It's just the people that I could identify with and communicate with and and felt a kindred you know, spirit with or whatever just happened to always be older, just due to the my

life circumstances. Um. So, I certainly you know I grew up quickly, and I've I've now mellowed out in my old age of eight. So you're writing songs from a young age. At what point do you say to yourself, wait a second, I can do this. I want to do it. I think I always knew that, and it was always something that I was pursuing, um, just the differences. When you're you know, a led ten eleven years old. You can have an acting career, but I don't think anyone wants to listen to what a ten year old

has to say in music, at least I hope not. UM. So you know, I had to get to an age where I had enough life experience and I had enough um enough, I had enough things to say that we're you know, important and relevant and and get to and also, you write a lot of bad songs before you write good ones. It's just you know, how it goes. And so I had to get to a place where I actually wrote a record's worth of material that I genuinely wanted the world to hear in and I was super

proud of and wanted to put out in a public way. Um. And so that's really all it was. It was just a lot of practice and when I finally met the right people, formed the band, you know, wrote records worth of songs that I was really proud of. It all just kind of came together very seamlessly, um, in this very chismic kind of magical way that you know, it's very lucky in in this world. I think like it. You know, finding finding musical partners and like minded people

is a challenge. And the fact that it kind of all just everything just kind of fell into place at once, that that's kind of that's the best way to say it. We're just all kind of clicked and it was just it flowed like water. You listen to your music, it's what we call active rock today. Maybe I would think

that'd be the best description. And although you talk about your influences online, the first thing I hear is a C d C. This is very different from when a C d C was really happening in late seventies and early eighties, where everything mixed together. One could say that hard rock is its own ghetto. Most people who have fame in other areas going to pop okay, stuff that Spotify Top fifty, work with producers, etcetera. How did you decide to go? I'm sure the music led you there,

but you're a smart person. You must have realized where you were going. I did. I didn't. I didn't. I I didn't think I was that calculated. I wasn't because I wasn't doing I wasn't making music for fame and success like that was never my goal. I already had that to a degree with something else, so I knew, I had experienced that. I knew what that was, and that was never a goal of mine. It was something that it just was. It was. It wasn't necessarily interesting

to me. I you know, I really got into music because I wanted to express myself, and rock and roll was always just what I loved, you know, It's what I grew up with. That's what I grew up with

listening to and fell in love with. And you know, the depth of the music from you know, they started they started with the Beatles, which is you know, not uncommon, I would say, but I fell in love with the Beatles, and then Led Zeppelin and the Who and Pink Floyd and A. C. D. C. And Neil Young and uh, when I got a little older, it was you know, Jimmy Hendrix, and then all the nineties stuff with Sound Garden and Nirvana and Oasis and Pearl Jam and and

and just every every band and artist that I loved was under the genre of rock and roll where it was just this kind of pure, the purest form of self expression and an aggression and vulnerability and and it was smart. Um you know, it had depth and it had layers to it, and it wasn't this kind of fleeting, you can bop your head to it music. It was something that you could really sit with and and and

escape into and go somewhere else. And that's that's the kind of music that I always um loved and and still love and and that's the kind of music that I wanted to make. Um that and I also just love electric guitars because they're super fun. So okay, so you've had I think five number one you know, rock tracks, But you can have a number one rock track and of America doesn't even know who you are, never mind heard the track. Is that frustrating? I think that it's

a good question. I don't I don't know that I've ever looked at it in a way of frustration. I think that I think that there's music that deserves to be I think that there's you know, rock and roll has become this very niche market. I don't think that that's a you know, a surprise to anyone, and I don't think that that's necessarily deserved. Um. I think that how do I want to say this? And you know, to meet Rocket, you have to remember that rock and

rolls alway has been on the outskirts. You know, it's it's never really been at the forefront of pop culture

except for in the moments where it takes over. And and to me, music is very cyclical, like it's you know, if you look at the history of music over time, like starting with say, starting with like the fifties, the fifties, it was very single bass, very pop um, and you know, then the sixties and seventies came in where there was this kind of renaissance of artists and musicians that overtook the formula that was um did the uh the industry,

and you know, it overtook the industry this pure expression where it was just undeniably great, and rock and roll had this you know, renaissance and resurgence. And then the eighties came in and I think everyone tried to kind of emulate something and everything started to kind of lean a little bit more towards the pop vein of um. You know, there's a bit of a lack of depth

in my opinion. And then the nineties came and there was your next resurgence with grunge and Nirvana and song ern and prol Jam and where and everyone Else and chains YadA YadA, where it just it over. It was so raw and so honest and so just the purest form of expression that it was undeniably great and it moved everybody. And that's the kind of music that I

strive to make. And I think that that's the kind of music that every artist strive to make, necessarily in that genre, but music that is so passionate that it touches people whether you want it to or not. And I think that that, you know, and then after the nineties, it's hard to find musicians like that, in bands that are that great. You know, there they're anomalies. And that's why it's an unn you know, from an industry standpoint,

you can't manufacture that. You can't constantly make that. And I think that's why pop always ends up coming and rising to the surface again. And so I think right now we're just in the process of waiting for the next rock and roll resurgence where it comes back because it can't die. It's too primal. That's what rock and roll is to me. It's it's it's so primal, it's the ultimate freedom. And when when you hit the nail

on the head. It's it's undeniable, and I think that we're just waiting for that next moment, and I hope that, you know, we could be a part of that that resurgence. And it's never it's never gonna look like what you think it's gonna look like either, um, and so you know, always keeping my eyes peeled, I guess, Okay, Pretty Reckless has been on four different labels. How come? Um, Well,

it's ah, every album we've been on a different record label. UM. Partially partially because I'm very I like to maintain creative control, UM. And so I don't like having people in my ear, especially from an industry side of things, telling me what I can and can't say, or can't you can't write, or I don't like having and only having people in

the studio. I don't like A and R, I don't like I don't like people telling me what to make and so I I found that for me it works best to kind of create, create what I want to make, make the album, and create this finished product and then pass it around to the people and let them listen and and then find the best partner for that record and see who's the most enthused, and who's the who makes the most sense, Who's who's really behind it and gets what I'm trying to say and what we're trying

to go, what we're going for, and and who can help put that out into the world in the best way possible. So that's what That's kind of what's happened with every album is I've licensed the records, I make them, and then I licensed them to who. Okay, but usually they want a longer commitment to go into business with you. So ay, when you were with Interscope, a traditional major label, did they want you to do things? Did they want to get it involved creatively or marking and the way

you didn't like it? And did you have to negotiate a split or did they only have one record or did they say we're done? Um? Interscope was well, they certainly they certainly wanted to push me into more of a pop vein which I fully understand um, and I was very resistant against that and very definitive in in the music that I was making and was not going

to bend uh. And so that relationship kind of kind of just we hit a point where it just we were both going in different directions and it just wasn't working. And I also, I thankfully have had very good management, so who helped me kind of get out of that

out of that deal. Um. But it's basically what I've done is I've I've tried to create a very good team of people around me that are in my core unit that I've selected myself over the course of um a decade or so, and that's who I trust with, and that's you know, that's where the the grand plan you know, I wish there was one, but the grand plans formulated and then the labels become this kind of um, you know, addition that we add to the team on each album based on where we're at as a unit. Okay,

so they got a Razor and Tie. Razor and Tie is basically known at the time. It's now part of Concorde, but it was independent then, primarily known for kids bop catalog releases. They didn't have a ton of success with their new music label. What was it like being on Razor and Tie as opposed to Interscope. It was, that's a good question. It was very in one way very similar and one way very different. Um. You know, I think the first thing is that we we made. They

knew what they were getting. Razor Time knew what they were getting with us. They knew, you know, they had heard the album. They knew what they what the product product. I hate being called the product, but it is. It is at the end of the day, they knew what the product was. They knew what they were trying to sell. And so you know when we met with them, UM and Cliff the president at the time, he was just he was very he was a music lover. He seemed to very he seemed to stand the record UM on

a on a very deep level, which I appreciated. UM and it and they had a it just it I don't know, you know how you know how industry is. It just kind of all clicked and it made sense. It made sense at the time. And uh and I think we did. You know, they did a great job with it. Like we had our first number one on that record. So it was, you know, we weren't under the major label umbrella, but I had all the freedom in the world to to to do and be who

and how I wanted to be. And and that's that's what I'm going for, is is you know, I've I've played the character. I've done the game, and I just want to I want the music and the art to speak for itself and I want that to which I know is sometimes an unrealistic goal, but I want that to be at the forefront and I want and I want it to be my way or not do it at all, because I just don't see the point if

it's not my way. And so that's kind of where the licensing of albums seemed to make the most answer for me and has until this point and still does so, where I just I really don't have to give anything away. I can. I can maintain all the artistic control, and that's the most important thing to me. Okay, I must say, as you talk, you give the impression that everything's hunky dory, everything's great, the label's great, got out of your TV deal,

you've got a good management, whatever. But those of us on the inside, no, it's never that way. There's a lot of frustration, a lot of angst. So can you tell us a little bit about that. Even the most successful acts. Oh, I mean there's tons of there's tons of frustration and challenges and angst and everything that comes

up all the time. But you know, honestly, right now, I'm there's not really too many issues, which I haven't been able to say for a long time because there's been a lot of personal issues and everything is kind of hunky dorry for lack of a better term, right now, and it and it feels good to be in that place.

I mean, if I was going to go down memory lane, which I could do, but I would honestly have to get the band and help in here just to remember everything because it's you know, it moves quickly, and there's a there's a lot of a lot of stuff has happened that to even remember all the little details. But but no, I mean getting off the television show that

was not easy. That was extremely hard. That was tons of fighting and arguing and back and forth and uh, you know, and it eventually ended in a place that that was pleasing to both parties. Um, it's you know, same thing with Endoscope get you know, getting out of a deal that didn't fit what I you know, didn't fit the picture of what I wanted my career to

look like was super challenging. You know. So there's a lot there's been lots of challenges and lots of fighting throughout the years, but at the end of the day, I you gotta let all that go because if it's not currently happening, then what's the point of hanging onto it. Like life's too hard as it is, you gotta move. I'm a little bit of a hippie in that way, like, move on, next thing. Okay, So today it is you know, you're at the center, You're in the universe. You get

to pray, depressed taking anti depressants? Are you always upbeat too? Your active? You know, what's your inner life like? Um? I certainly struggle with ups and downs. Um. I think that I always have and and I went through a very bad bout with depression over the past few years while making this album. Um, we lost many people close to us, and that took me down a very dark path of depression and substance abuse and and everything that comes along with loss. Um that I wasn't equipped to handle.

And it's, you know, to make a long story short, that's that's where Death by Rock and Roll came from. It was it was me pretty much at my lowest and using trying to use music to to pull myself out of this hole that I didn't know how to get out of and it. And now I'm at now you know, I've made that record, I've I've grown a lot in the past few years, and now I'm just trying to get back to life. I guess if that

makes sense. I mean, we you know, I spent so long in isolation and then COVID obviously you know everyone did, but that just extended this the sentence that I had put on myself another two years. And so now I'm just trying to kind of get back into the world again and see how that feels and try you know, try those try those shoes on, because it's been a minute, and you know, get back out there and tour and play and and see the fans and um, and just

try to live. I guess a little bit um and that, you know when I still struggle with ups and downs and and of course like everyone does, and um, you know, some are more severe than others. And I don't really have a good answer to get out of it. Uh,

I wish I did. I tend to always turn to music, as cliche as it sounds, That's that's where my head goes, because it's it's somewhere that I can escape and somewhere that I can also feel secure, and um, you know, it's it's kind of like a I don't know, there's there's music for every emotion and and and you know when you scroll through when I scroll through my records, I can always find a song for what I for

what I need. And and that's kind of what I try to turn to because turning the drugs and alcohol just that wasn't working for me anymore. That was going to kill me. So you know, so now that's that's what my life looks like. I'm just trying to stay on the positive side of things and and get out there and um live. So what a couple of year go to records coaching records? Well, every Beatles record is a mainstay. Wait, wait, what's your favorite Beatles album? I

can't pick one. I know that's because you can't pick one. It's the whole. You know, I have one now, it's changed from what it was earlier, So give me your general sensibility. Um, it's it's always different. I mean, okay, well right now I'm listening to the anthology a lot, just because it has all of the all of the different demos and all the versions of songs, which I think is very cool to listen to and explore. Um. I also have been why I still haven't finished it.

I think it's it's amazing. I haven't finished Get Back yet, which I is the I think the greatest thing to happen to cinema and ever. Um, I'm so fascinated by it. I'm so in love with it. But it's taking me forever to get through because I have to pose it every two seconds and rewind it and just make sure I soaked in every little moment of it. Okay, let's stop. Where are you? I'm still I'm still about halfway through the first one, and it's taken me about how when

did it come out? Three months? Are watching the first one? All I can say is I find the three episodes quite different. They that's what I've heard. But I'm again, I'm only on the first one. But I'm waiting for what did you take from what you actually saw? First of all, just how genius it is, but but I already knew that, but also just getting to see kind

of the full extensions. It's like the unedited version of everything I've been watching my whole life, you know, to see this footage that's existed and I've never seen before is mind blowing. But I think that I'm taking a lot of things from it. I think one, it's it's

amazing to see the similarities. I mean, not that I'm ever trying to compare myself to the greatness of the Beatles, but to see the similarities of of what it's like to be in a band and to to be a writer and to be, you know, in working with three other people and and have that kind of camaraderie, and that the arguments and the banter and the just the their overall kind of demeanor is very similar to us in a lot of ways. Um, which is very cool

to see that. You know, artists such as you know, the greats like the Beatles are at the end of the day, you know, they're human too, and and there's and so I'm I'm just fascinated by it. Aspect you're being is in a room or studio, what do you argue over? Oh my god, the like everything. I mean, there was one fight that I'll never forget where it was. I mean, I thought it was going to come to blows and it was just over how loud the high

hat should be like it was. It was intense. It was a good twenty minute screaming match back and forth between me, Ben and Kato and it it was and we're not fighters, were not physical fighters, but it got close. So that's just one example. It's we fight over the arc. It's you know, it's a it's a let's go back to the high hat. What did everybody? What did you want? I don't even remember at this point on So this is the first record, Um, this was light me up.

I don't remember what I actually what I wanted or what I don't remember if we might have all been even saying the same thing, but we just weren't listening to each other, Like I don't think any of us actually knew by the end of the argument, but we were so adamant about whatever it was. I knew it was a high hat, that it was just it got very heated very quickly, and ever wanted to walk out of the room and cool off and come back. And then it was probably just like turn it down a

quarter of a dB and we're all happy. It's probably something that careful. There's a theme of you wanting to do it your way, So are you the ultimate arbiter in the act. Yeah, well, if it's I mean, if I would say Ben and I are Ben and I because we write the songs, and so if they're if they don't, you know, if the recording doesn't capture what our intent was, or doesn't do the song justice to its fullest potential or whatever it Uh, we're immensely unhappy.

And it's and it's like you're destroying our children. Um. So it's it's this very you know, it's this very tumultuous thing where it's like if you like working with different producer, we always worked with Kata. That's why it was is a very beatle like relationship where we worked with the same person George Martin beatles us and Kato because we build upon that. We built upon that relationship and so um, you know, in a musical partnership where it became symbiotic and so are our minds just kind

of intuitively worked together and we all had the same goal. Um. And so losing him and having him pass was a huge, huge impact. I mean, not only was he my best friend, but he was the fifth member of the band. He was this very integral part in the making of our records. And so losing that was extraordinarily difficult, and trying to replace that it was nearly impossible. And so um, and where was I going with us? Sorry um and so too to find that again. I don't know that we'll

ever find that again. And so that's what that's what made this album Death by Rock and Roll very different in a lot of ways, is that it was us kind of figuring out how to us figuring out how to make records without Kato, which seemed like an impossible task I think when we started, um and luckily we we we knew one other guy named Jonathan Wyman who was an old, dear friend of ours who's just a

great engineer, and so we called him up. And that's how we didn't made this together where we actually been and I actually co produced it because we were so involved within controlling about these songs that were so precious and so dear that there was no um, there's no other way around it. So I don't remember where I started with this. I had if I had a full

circle moment, but I forgot what your question was. And so yes, So my point, my point being, so we're very involved in the recording and all of it where there is no So the buck stops with with me and Benet. It has to it has to reach a certain level and hit a certain point in place where we can both go, that's great the way it is, and don't don't mess with that anymore. And so yes, the buck stops with the buck stops with the two

of us. And I think that we're always on the same page that we've never really gotten in an argument about what about all the other stuff? When to go on tour with the artwork is and all that stuff, there's you know, well that's where the team that I've put in place comes in to play. Um like that, Okay, it's I know the friend who's the manager will not manage X, will only me A not manage bands because there's so many issues between the band. No, no, no,

we don't have that. I know what you're saying, that we don't have that kind of um dynamic in our band. It's because when you sign a record deal, are all four band members on that deal are just you? No, it's just me, it's just you? Wait? Is it just me? Honestly, I don't even know and I should know that. Um, well, I'm the soul it's it's it's split because it's not me, it's not signed under Taylor Momson. So it's it's I

am the owner of the Pretty Reckless. So the license the title that you know at the copyright, I own that. So that's you're signing the pretty Reckless, but I am the sole proprietor of the Pretty Reckless. Of that Okay. So there's an advance or there are hypothetically royalties which never seemed to show up. Everybody get uh, we don't split it like that, but everyone does get equal shares

at the end. But it's not But like with an advance or whatever, especially with license in the albums, it's not that's it's not that cut and drive like here's Europe, because it's not a three sixty major label deal, like here's your money and we'll take care of everything. The advance goes to making the art and goes back into the business. So it's the deals like that go into funding.

But let's just assume you're in business and after ten years you have to be making some money otherwise you would stop, so you wouldn't be able to afford going on the road. So at the end of the day, if there's a hundred dollars, do you get fifty and the other three with the other forget publishing, totally different things. But on these men for the band, okay, do you split or is it split differently? It's a case by case basis. It's not. It's not across the board blanketed

set a deal like that. It's it depends on the situation and where where the money is coming from and what it's for and where it's going, and like it's it's not. It's not as a standard deal. Like you go on the road, you perform, forget sponsorship for you know, just you're performing and it's merch. How is that split up? It's it's not split by percentages like that. It's it's it goes into the business and then whatever is left over is split. But if they get paid, they get

I don't. I don't know this well enough to really discuss it properly. But they don't they get paid, and I don't know, I don't know. It's one final question. But do they get paid a salary? Did you get eight a salary? But it's but it's a consistent Yes, they get paid a salary, yes, but but it's it's constantly changing based on the incomes of the organization. Okay, so other than the Beatles, what are a couple of

your other go to factor something easier? Uh? Well, sound Garden is my other go to band, like my two favorite bands on the planet of the Beatles and Sound Guarden. So sound Garden is. But you were on the road. You were on the road with sound Garden. Yeah, when Chris Cornell committed suicide, What the hell was how'd you find out? It's well, that was the start of my demise. I guess um or my very downward spiral was the passing of him, because that was to be on tour

with Sound Garden. When we got that phone call that we were going to open for them, my mind was blown, like I couldn't even I couldn't process. I was so happy I was. That was the pinnacle moment of my career that I could not believe we were opening for Sound Garden. Um, I felt like I was in a dream and and getting to play those shows with them and be on the road with them and getting to know them personally. It was just the whole experience was

absolutely amazing and super surreal. And we played that last show with them in Detroit, and the next morning I woke up to the news and it just it was so shocking and so devastating. I couldn't wrap my mind around it. It crushed me in a way that I

was not expecting or prepared for or could even understand. Um. And we were still you know, we were still in the middle of tour at that at that time, and I we played a few shows after that, but I quickly came to the realization and the and the point where I was like, I'm not in a good headspace to be on tour. I can't do this. I can't get on stage in fain excitement and happiness every night, Like this is just it's unfair to the fans, it's unfair to me. Like I need I need a break.

I need some time to go home and grieve and be a person. Um and and and and I did. I canceled everything. I went home, and as soon as I started to kind of get my feedback on the ground and process the passing of Chris Um, I turned to music. I started writing. And that's because that's what I always do. It's this is where my mind goes. And I was calling Kato or producer going, I've got some songs we gotta get in the studio because it

hit all of us extraordinarily hard. I mean, one of the reasons this band formed and why it's you know, has the members that it does is was our deep passionate love of sound garden Um. It was one of the things that we connected on right away. Did you play black hole soun on rock band? I didn't play rock bands, but I wasn't. No, I never played any of that. I played guitar. Was it was black hole son on on guitar? Hero or rock band? Was one

of the famous songs from rock You're processing. Yes, I've written some songs and like we all of us were in this kind of depression and this funk from from Christ's passing, and when we got to get out of this, let's get in the studio, let's record. I don't know what these songs are for, but I've got some stuff like let's just move forward. We've got to try to

get out of this. And as soon as we were starting to put those plans in motion, I got the phone called that Kato had died in a motorcycle accident and that that was the just that was the nail in the coffin for me, that was that was the beginning of what I was sure was going to be the end. Like where I just I sunk so fast into this whole of depression and substance abuse and just this place of utter darkness and sadness that I couldn't get out of and I didn't see a way out of.

And I just and I think the biggest problem was that I didn't care, Like I was very content being living there and and essentially fading into nothing, and and I just I saw that as that's where my life was going to go, and that's where I live, and that's where I die. And that was that. And it took you know years UM's, you know, writing this album and stuff of me trying to pull myself out of

that hole. Because and that's why I say music saved my life and saves my life continually, is because I hit that point where I it was so lonely and so low that I needed music. I needed something. And you know, the drugs and the alcohol it wasn't filling. It wasn't even numbing that that whole anymore, wasn't numbing that pain. It was just exacerbating it and it and it didn't. I wasn't doing what I needed and it wasn't doing what I needed it too, um And so I turned to music and it and it was this

essentially just really learned everything. I tried to kind of ask myself, like, what, like everything I love is dead, what's the point? And there had to have been a point to all of this. There had to have been, and that the point was always music. So I started I tried to I essentially regressed into being a child where I just I listened to the albums that I grew up loving and and tried to find my love

of something. And from an innocent and organic perspective, I guess of of like you do when you're a child, when you just you don't even know why you love something, you just do. And that's what I did with music.

I started to kind of listen to the starting with the Beatles records and just going through, um, all the albums I grew up loving and love to this day, and eventually getting to a place where I could listen to Sound Garden and have it bring me some happiness and not just immense pain and sadness and that was kind of a that was a turning point for me where I could listen to those records and and there was a spark there um and I started to feel like I used to a little bit, just a little

bit moments, glimmering moments, and that that, you know, led to me picking up a guitar and and playing music. And because I was also all by myself, I didn't didn't have anything to do, and that's so I was. This was a long period of time, so I just I turned to music and playing guitar and singing songs by myself in my bedroom like I did when I was a kid. Brought back, you know, all those feelings that I felt when I was a child of writing music.

And that's then then this album turned into this very free flowing form of expression where I just just once I kind of let myself, let my mind go there and and say out loud everything that I had been trying to shove down and repress. Um. The floodgates opened, and this album essentially just it kind of wrote itself.

It was just this very pure form of inspiration that I said that it's it's it almost feels like the first album in that way where it's just this this uncontrollable source, Like you're always looking for the source of something, and in this case, it was like the universe of gone. You wanted something to write about, Taylor, here I smacked you in the face with it. What are you gonna

do with it? And by that's how this album was was made and written and and by doing that and by letting it all out through songs and in songs, it it started to heal me and you know, heal my soul in a way that I desperately needed. And it was not overnight like when you know, you know, when I sum it up in this little, nice, nice little package, it sounds like it was easy. It was not easy. It was it took a very long time.

But at the end of the day, That's why I say this album Death by Rock and Roll is a very hopeful record because it it kind of covers this spectrum of of everything that I was going through at the time and in this very real way, um and and it and there's no there was no hiding, there's no hiding from it. There was no I couldn't I couldn't fake it even if I wanted to. I passed that point where I was I was unable to fake

living anymore, and so it just it. It came out in the music and that's what eventually got me back to a place of uh being here. I don't I just got very heavy with that and I don't know it entirely made sense. Yes it did. So what did it look like doing drinking and doing drugs? It looked like it looks like a train wreck. What do you think it looked like? It was something there are people say doing drugs. I smoked a lot of dope. Other people said I was it was injecting heroin. I mean

there's different. So people who were drunk seven people will get wasted two times a week. Um. You know again, I think that that's something that I'm not quite read you to share with the world. It I'll just leave it it. It was. It was bad. That was very bad. Um, and I did hit. Uh. There was a moment where it was I had to make a conscious decision of this is gonna kill me or so his death or moved forward? Um, And there was a there was a

defining moment of that. But that's that's something that I don't think I'm quite ready to talk about in depth, okay, But the defining moment was an internal or external. It was external and it was a very physical decision. Okay. And during this process, were you getting professional help? Mm hmm, not really. I mean I I had spoken to different therapists. I saw it help, um, but I hadn't found you know, I think therapy therapists it's such a challenge to find

a therapist that works for you. And I was moving from the a therapist and never really found, um, the right person for me. If so that that was kind of a dead end for me, and not not for lack of trying. I think at the end of the day, I knew that it was outside help was you know, there's only so much that I was hade. Help can do,

and then support from friends and family can do. I had to want to change, I had to want to make that choice to move on with life and continue to live and and and that's a hard decision to make. But if it had to come from me, it wasn't going to come from anyone else. Um. And I think that you know, it's like with anything like trying to motivate to exercise, Like you can have a trainer and all your friends tell you to do it, but at the end of the day, you have to get up

and do it. And I think that that's I had to reach a point that hit hit something that that scared me enough to change, and I did. Ye you're talking about this defining moment. Uh, once you hit the other side of it, was it totally of course you had to have of your head in the right place. But was there a third party who called you every day or came by every day to aid you till you finally got traction? Or was it something you did solely yourself? Um? No, I had help. The band helped

a lot um. You know. They they were relentless and checking out on me. Um and you know, making sure I was doing all right. Um not dead yet? Uh No, So I had, I had, I had help in in that sent in that regard where I had, I had very close people in my life that it cared about me um and that, you know, I'm very thankful for and very lucky to have, because not everyone has that, UM And so you know, I think that's that's kind

of supports us them certainly does not. It's not unappreciated by any means, and I think that it is an immense help. But like I said, at the end of the day, if you want to change, it has to come from within you, like people yelling at you or telling you to trying to motivate you or whatever. You know, however that might look, um isn't going to be the thing that does it. At the end of the day, it's just encouragement. Okay. There's a famous book by William Styrone.

The author called Darkness Visible about his time being depressed and ultimately even going into an institution, and he said he couldn't listen to music he was so bad. And I've certainly been in that space. But when he could listen to music, then he knew he was on the road to recovery. Was there any time it that the music didn't work before it did? That's exactly what happened. And I'm not familiar with this book, but now I want to read it. It's an easy book to read.

You should definitely read. Yeah, no, I would love to. That's that's because that's verbatim what happened. When I was my lowest. There was no Everything brought sadness, especially music, because music with my whole life, and so anything I put on or listened to just brought back a painful memory or but I just hated it, or like it brought back so many had so many different emotions attached to it that none of which were good emotions. And

and then and they would vary on a minutely basis. Um. But so I just I shut it out, like it was it brought back something that I couldn't deal with yet, and it just it was not pleasurable to me. And it was not creating comfort. It was creating pain and anger and anxiety and all you know, all the negative sides of the spectrum of the wheel of emotions and

uh and so yeah, it was. There was a period where I couldn't listen to music at all, and I think that that was probably my darkest period because I had never gone in a day in my life without listening to music. It's just a part of my daily routine. Um. And I think that that's like you said when when you when I I hit a place where I found

myself needing it. I needed music and I had been depriving myself of it almost unconsciously, though like I didn't It wasn't this conscious thing where I went, I'm not going to listen to music because it makes me feel bad. It was just like I just didn't do it. It just hurt and I didn't do it. And I finally hit a point where I I felt like I needed music like I need water and oxygen and it and I don't know, then this primal un there was no thought process to any of this. That just it just was.

And that's where that that's where I kind of I started from the beginning again and I went, Okay, well, let's start with something easy to digest. Let's start with the Beatles, you know. And that's where it. That's where that kind of transitioning and introducing music back into my life through in the order of how I fell in love with it as a child, became this kind of very theory compeutic process to me. And and the end of that looked like being able to listen to the

Sound Garden. And by the time I hit that point, that allowed me to then get to the next stage, which was playing music and writing music. And so that was so I think I noticed it as as I was listening to albums again that it was starting to help me in a way, But I don't think I really noticed any of it until I until I completed the album and then took a step back and went, oh, ship that was. That was a lot over the past few years. I don't even know what just happened, um

because you can't see it when you're in it. But generally speaking, or your glass half empty, glass half full person, mm hmmm, I think it depends on the month. I don't after having having this terrific experience. Okay in the bathroom mind, I think you said, well, it could happen again. Yeah, in the back of my mind spoke could happen again.

But I think be because of all of that. I think, because everything I went through and all that darkness, I am now probably more on the glass glass half full side of things in the sense that I I look at everything with a sense of it's not that important. Like you know, once the once death impacks you in a real way, it changes your perspective of everything else, and so anything goes wrong or anything that's bad now

it's kind of like, well, it's not that bad. Um. So so if that's what my new motto is, just it's eway like is what it is? Man Like Oh, it's a bad show. That sucks. I'm pissed. I'm gonna fire everybody, you know whatever. But eway, there's another one tomorrow. Like it's that's how you have to That's how I kind of look at life now in in general and until something, you know, hopefully nothing that's serious will happen again, at least for not a lot time. But go back

to Chris Cornell for a second. I unfortunately that friends have committed suicide, and I find the old only way to ultimately move far forward if you put it in a mental box, you come out with some reasoning of what you thought was going on there. So how did you do that with Chris? And what did that look like? That's a good question, I think, And to think about that for a minute. I don't. I don't. I don't know. I haven't. I haven't dissected that one. That's a very

good question, Bob. I don't know that I have a good answer to that, because I don't. I don't think I've thought back on it like that in that way. I think that I think that once honestly, Chris passing was extraordinarily devastating and the start of a spiral for me. But so shortly after Chris, we lost Cato, and that that hit me in a in a way that like I thought, Chris hit me in a way that I didn't know, you know, hit me into the gut and

the gut that I didn't know I had. And then but then with Kato passing, that was so so close to home. It's so personal and so you know, such a huge part of my life. It's such a huge part of my life that that overtook everything. And so I think that Chris, you know, became a part of this whole umbrella that was loss and death and grief and and and and it just it all kind of lumped together in this giant everything I love is dead.

I don't see the point of life. And so it wasn't so specifically I didn't have the time to get over, not get over, but I didn't have the time to fully process and cart cart compartmentalized Chris's death because Kato's death happened so quickly after Chris' is so it all just became this one lump of hell. Not if that

if that makes any sense. I don't mean to like belittle or or say they're not different, but it was so clear, were so quick next to you, so quickly, um, one after the other, that it was just this one to punch of pain and it all it all hurt. There was no going like, oh my arm hurts today and my leg hurts tomorrow. Is my whope, everything hurts all at once. Okay, let's go and do you go on the road now. And you've been on the road before. Anybody who's been there knows. It is a man's world.

There's an occasional woman in the crew, and it's a real down and dirty lifestyle. And men can really be down in dirty when it comes to clothing, hygiene, going out drinking. Are you one of the guys? Are you really separate? How do you interact? And I'm definitely one of the guys. Um, you know, I've aside from the fact that I have dresses. Uh, I'm one of the guys. I think. Um, we actually looked out quite or I

don't know if we looked out, but we're a clean band. Um. We all appreciate hygiene in this group, so we never had to worry about that that kind of problem, um, which I think would have been my my biggest complaint. But no, as far as like traveling and touring and living and um just being together. It's it, we're all we're all very like minded. It's it's it's so just it's very easy. It's very it's one, you know, big family for even as cliche as that sounds, it really is.

And I think that, you know, just the longer every year that goes by, the closer our bondas and the and the the easier everything gets. And it's just it's it's only gotten easier as time has gone on, which I think probably isn't the case for every band. Okay, so you talked about this hole you're win with drugs and alcohol. Are you sober or do you still drink something? I'm mostly sober, Um, I'm I never got into you know, the programs um that just to teach their own um.

But I and I mean I occasionally all occasionally. First I smoked weed, Um, so I smoked lots of weed. But but no, I don't. I'm I'm mostly sober, like very Okay, So you don't. I haven't had a drink in two years. Okay, so a year and a half or whatever. Well let's talk a little bit before that, before all these tragedies. You play a gig, you're staying in a hotel. One of the band members says, I'm gonna go hang out at the bar. Are you gonna go hang out at the bar? Oh? It's first of all,

the party. It's a really fun party until the party takes its toll. You know, there's there's your way to say it. Oh yeah, No, it was a blast in the beginning, but you know, like anything, and it turns on you. Okay, needless to say. Uh. Prior to cell phone cameras, a lot of guys got into rock and roll for the sexual opportunities, and they are legion. What's your experience being on the road. Um, well, that's not why I got into it, so it's probably different, you know,

different priorities. Um, I mean it's I don't know, it's been pretty It's very isolated in one way, like touring is. It's it's so his bubble and we're so focused on the show itself that um hm, it's not like that. I mean, I don't like do I don't ask a more specific question because I don't really know you have a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Um, I'll leave you a guessing. I don't know one, but let me ask generally, I

just don't like to looking for gossip here. Are you someone who tends to go from a relationship to relationship or someone who tends not to have a relationship, or someone who has long spells in between? Um, I'm either No, I'm certainly not a relationship to relationship person. I'm not like I don't jump around. I'm a I'm a loyalist.

I'm a loyal person heart um, loyal with the people I work with them, loyal with my personal relationships and nuts um because I find you know, when you find someone you can trust and truly be yourself around in any capacity, whether that's romantic or business, you hang onto that for dear life. So that's that's kind of how I've always lived my life with very few people in my life, but very close people. So what's more sexist rock and roll or the TV business? Oh? Interesting question.

I don't know, they're probably like probably equal. I think it depends on what you're talking about specifically. I mean, like, there's there's definitely more women on television than there are in rock and roll, But I don't know that that's is that sexism or is that just that there's less women in rock and roll because if you look at

the pop charts, it's all women. So I don't you know women in music or I think I think the sexism side of you if you listen to like Joan Jet or someone who's um, you know, been doing this for a very long time. I think that the the sexist side of things has certainly changed over time. Like I've never felt I've I've felt moments of sexism in in music, but not to the degree that I think, you know, women like Joan and stuff had to deal with UM. It's much more I don't want to say inclusive.

But I also just I don't look at it like that, Like I don't see myself as a a chicken a band. I see myself as like I'm a I do what you do. I see my as what all the guys do. I don't see I don't see gender like that. And you know, and I don't. All of my idols have always been men, and it's not because they're men. It's because I love their records, you know. It's it's not so I've never looked at genders this kind of divide,

And maybe that's naive of me. But I just see it as the best songs, the best song with the best artis of the best artist. I want to be like them. I want to be like that. And so I don't. I don't like to put the and only to focus on that. And and so because I think I don't focus on it, maybe I don't even notice it when it's happening, if that makes sense. That makes sense. But let's broaden it a little bit, just more of

a me too thing. Uh. Any woman, never mind, a very attractive woman like yourself, has men hitting on them all the time. Okay, and if you have a profile first on a TV show, in a band, okay, that is amplified. So almost everybody in those walks of life has me two stories? Do you have? Me? Two stories? I have? I have? I have uncouth and un Yeah, I have uncouth encounters with with men, um of course. But I also think that every it's unfortunate and it's

very sad. But I think that any woman of a certain age has been very uncomfortable sexual situations and at some point in their life. Um, probably most people have. Honestly, UM, So I don't I again, I don't want to get too into that. But of course, of course I've had uncomfortable situations that you know, in inappropriate situations of things that shouldn't have happened the way that they did. But on as far as the like getting hit on and things,

I actually find it funny. I don't get hit on very much at all, and I don't I don't know if that's I think a part of that is because I built this, like there's this protection around. I roll around with four giant men with me all the time. That's very intimidating, Like I have this force with by being in a band of this of this crew of people that I roll with all the time. So I'm never I'm very protected in in this. Um. I don't

know what we're kind of imposing. I guess when we were a force when we when we walk in together, and I'm never really boy myself, so um it would be so I just I don't think I experienced that in the same way that maybe some people do. Thought, well, what about everyday life. You're in New York City. I'm in New York, but I'm I don't know, like I love New York because it's you're in the middle of a billion people, but you can also completely hide. Um you know, it's in New York can be whatever you

wanted to be based on the minute. And that's why I think it's so amazing that you can walk, you know, one corner and walk one block and you're in the heart of it all and turn another corner and you're in the middle of nowhere. And I think that that's so cool. And so it's it's very easy for me to kind of hide and and live very normal normally in in New York. And I don't know, especially with COVID, I don't go out, I don't do anything. I'm a

homebody and very boring. Um so I'm yeah, it's I go for long walks and you know, who are you meeting on a walk? Would you ever say to yourself, Oh, you know, I need food, but I'm not gonna go to the market at this hour because I'm gonna have to deal with the public there and people gonna you know, try to hit on me or talk to me or whatever.

Um yeah, I mean, not the market. But there's certain areas in New York, like if you don't want to be photographed or you don't want to be bothered by you know, paparazzi or ebayers or people like that, or people who might notice you you don't go to soho on a Saturday, like you know, there's there's areas where you just you know, to avoid um. So, yes, there's there's certainly times when you when you think that to yourself.

But as far as just like going to the grocery store, like, I'm just a person will go to the grocery store. I'm not that I'm not that fussy. Okay, how about if you leave the house. You know, I was at a private situation with a household name and who came looking like she just walked out of, you know, a movie set. And I said, this is a sentence. She's known as a beauty. She has to leave her house every day and make herself up by the same token.

I have another friend who was on television, went to pick up food and somebody came up to said, aren't you so and so said yeah, he said the person said, you look like shit. So do you feel that pressure? God, if I'm leaving the house, I gotta put my look on. I certainly did when I was on television, when I was on Gossip girl. I felt like I could. I hated leaving I didn't leave the house with makeup. I

always had an output, an outfit together. Part of that, I think was that I was young and I actually really enjoyed expressing myself through fashion and makeup and things like that from the visual standpoint. Um. But also I knew it as my picture was gonna be taken and when I walked outside, So who wants to look like shit and photos? Um? But I think as I've gotten older, I've become much more relaxed in general about image and how I'm perceived and walking around New York and stuff.

I don't I don't care, I don't like. I mean again, like I'm not going to go to one of the areas of New York that there's always paparazzi hanging around looking like crap, just because why would you do that to yourself? But just like leaving my house in the in the daytime, like I'll leave the house and looking quite normal and very average. Okay, So if you're a homebody, how you spending the time? You're watching television? You're reading books? Yeah?

Watching tv? I mean we uh, we haven't been home from tour. Too long. So it's I'm actually just kind of I've got a lot of errands and chores and things that we're getting ready to leave again here soon. So it's a lot of like unpacking and repacking and things like that. Um, but yeah, I watched television playing music. Um. I walk a lot. That's the other thing I do in New York. I go for a mile long walks every day and just um people watch and and enjoy the city and the the energy that is that is

New York. That there. You know, I've literally been around the world and there's no other place that even comes close to it. Like I love New York so much. It's so special and so different and so exciting and so it's it's the best. And so I'm never bored in the city because you can even if you're doing absolutely nothing, just all you have to do is walk outside and you you're watching a movie. Like is true. But you know, living in I grew up in the

East Coast, fifty miles from New York City. But you know, the East New Yorker comes to l a looks around us. I don't get it. You know, you gotta use your car. There's not this that New York City greatest city in the world. In the world, buddy, Angelina would say, New York City, greatest city in the world, but I'd rather live in Los Angeles. Well, see, that's where I was talking to Margaret before we started talking, and then I

was saying, Los Angeles is like that. I've all pretty much all of my friends who used to live in New York now live in l A. And they love it, and they're constantly trying to convince me to move there. They're going, you're crazy, you're missing out. It's beautiful, the weather. And I go to Los Angeles. I stay there for about a week. The first week, I'm going, this is amazing. It's sunny every day. I know exactly. I don't need to wear a jacket. I gotta it's awesome. The energy,

the vibe that's so positive and great. After about two weeks, I'm so done and so ready to be Like for the first two weeks, I'm ready to move there. By the time third week comes around, I'm like, if you don't get me back to New York City, I'm gonna go absolutely crazy. I need the grit. I need the grime, I need the I don't want to feel like I have to wipe my feet when I walk outside to make sure my shoes are clean for your sidewalks, like I want, you know what I mean? I don't know.

There's just something about New York that I can't I'm I fell in love with it when I was young, and I just don't think i'll ever look I feel about New York exactly about you know, you go to the East Coast. God, why am I living in l A blah blah blah. But after a period of time, I can't wait to get back to l A. I get it. Maybe one day, maybe one day, Los Angeles

will become my new home, but not yet. I also, after spending five years in Maine um in the complete and utter isolation, I think the the mayhem of New York City is very refreshing. I was New York only works if you can get out. Mhm. If you're an artist, you don't have that much money, you're there seven week after week, it becomes oppressive. Yeah, it certainly can if you can get to Maine whatever. Okay, so whish. On the other side, if you're spenting twenty hours a day,

I would see I would say. The opposite is spending twenty hours a day in Maine became extraordinarily oppressive. Where it was, it was torturous to be that one of the few people's lived in the country. Now, granted I lived in the country prior to Amazon, the Internet, I mean FedEx, so you're living in the boonies. And then the other thing I don't like about living in the countries, everybody knows your name. I like the anonymity. Everybody you don't know who I am. You don't know what I'm

up to. It's really you know, and you don't have to say hi to the same person without talking to him for twenty years. There's no small talk in the city. It's the best, right right, Yeah. On the New York place, it's oh yeah, good to see you. Okay, bye. So you're in New York. Are your parents still in St. Louis? No, No, my family we moved to uh we moved from St. Louis when I was nine or ten ten um to Maryland because my dad switched companies or jobs, and so

I lived in Maryland. Because my family still in Maryland, I have to make that I don't know what what does your she well she's very private and we'll let me talk about her. Um, but she is doing Wait, she she went to college. She's very smart, she's very uh driven, she's very beautiful and sweet and wonderful, and she's uh, she's currently in living life and figuring out what she wants to do with it. Um but I but she will literally kill me if I say anything

more than that. But she's doing great and she's on her Okay. So, someone who spent all that time with your mother and absent from your father, what's your relationship with your parents now, both in quality and frequency. Um. I don't see my family very often. Um, you know, we have kind of a texting relationship. I guess. Uh, they you know, have always been very supportive of what

I do. But I think that are you know, as I, as I got older and kind of moved into my own world of creation, Um, that they weren't really integral in and a part of you know, we certainly drifted apart. And so you know, I think our relationship is it's all right, it's good, you know, it's it's fine, but it's it's not super involved. You've had this career other than Jared Leto and you may have more number ones.

You're the only person who really made success of the last couple of decades was first on television, So you've proved it. Yeah, staying party of that success. What do you want now? Oh man, that's a really good question. I should probably think about that more often. Uh, you know what I want now? Um? I want to have a good time all the time. That's what I want. So that's that affairs. I want a good time all the time. UM. I used to say the same thing in my life at one point. I feel like it's

usually after the traumas hard. It's been some hard years and I just want things to be easy and fun and good and I want to have a good time, um, which is why I and I mean that. And I'm looking forward to the next couple of months because the touring is a good time and I hope it remains a good time before it's it's We're very excited to get back out on the road and go to Europe again. We haven't been to Europe and years and we're doing

that in October. And finally we're starting to transition into becoming an arena band. We're playing our headlining our first arenas in Europe, which is very exciting. So just I just want everything to keep kind of growing and aggressing and and moving forward in a in a positive good way. And I and then I want to get back in

the studio and I want to make more music. I want to make another record, and I want to, you know, kind of not close this chapter, but um, you know, but take a step forward from it, and I think and and and just see where life's gonna take me. I don't I mean, I don't. I don't know. I haven't. I don't have it all planned out. But um but I would like to continue to make music, and I would like to continue to better myself as an as an artist and as a person and and do that

on a you know, minutely and daily basis. What do you think about the game, Because a lot of artists, especially in rock, bitch about the game, the streaming, Spotify, the playlist, the payments, the radio. But um, well, I read your letters on it all the time. I think that I think that I haven't gotten to involved in it. And that might sound stupid, but I think that I just try to. I think that I think that you've got to make I don't know what I think. I

don't think. I don't think I'm smart enough to talk about this one to you. That's what I think. I think that I don't know enough, even though I should because I've been doing this a long time. I don't think I know enough to speak in a in a in a conversation. But is it something that bothers you? Yes and no, But I don't know that it bothers me on a on a specifically, I bought streaming. Is

this weird thing? I have this love hate relationship with streaming where, you know, in one way, I think it's wonderful that everyone has immediate access to here music and you know, I you streaming. I listened to it. I'm guilty, um, you know, because it's so accessible, it's right there, um. And I think that that's wonderful because music should be shared and appreciated and listened to at nauseam. On the other hand, I am, you know, call me old school.

I really appreciate the album, and I you know, that's what I grew up with. That's what I love where you really kind of delve into the art in this deeper, more meaningful way when you listen to records and it's and it's not this fleeting, quick little thing. It's it's something that's important and it has value um past past just a fiscal value, but like it has it has actual value, has physical weight when you're holding your hands.

It has importance and and it's you know, it's it's like a it's a film, like it's it's it's worth something, and it's it's soulful and there's something to that that I feel like it's getting lost in the modern paradigm of music where you're you're missing this it's it's so it's so much, it's so much all the time that I think that the importance of what music can be is getting lost to a degree, or can get lost

in a in an easier way. Um, whereas the you know, the album was something that encapsulates a time period in a moment in life, and you know of that artist where you can really get inside the artist's mind and and understand them, and by understanding them, you you understand yourself more. And you know, it's that whole symbiotic relationship with music and being a listener that I think is starting to get kind of dolled down because the importance

of records and albums. With streaming, importance of music itself is becoming, so there's so much of it, I think. But I think it's the same thing with television too, Like there's just there's so much accessibility and there's so much product that it's overwhelming, and it's hard to find the real gems that that can change you as a person. Instead, you're you're infiltrated with, you know, a flux of tons of stuff that that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I

don't I don't know. I I know that I still, even though I'm guilty of using streaming, and I still use streaming to listen to the records that I that I've always listened to. So I don't know. I don't really know what I think of it. I think that I think it depends on what you grew up with and how you how you use it, because I also think everyone uses streaming differently, so it's I don't think that you can put a blanket um some up with

streaming good or streaming bad. I think it depends on the on the person and specifically what you know artist or moment or thing that you're talking about Okay, so there's a great queen song which doesn't get that much airplay, but I love it, which is I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, I want it now. Okay, so I was

literally listening to that like three days ago. I'm forgetting Traditionally musicians would sacrifice money to have more people other than Gene Simmons, but have more people listen to their music. Do you say, well, you know Spotify tip top fifty, it's hip hop and pop. But shure that's where I want to be. No, no, no, no, I I mean I no, because I don't fit on that list. Um,

I make a different kind of music. I think that I would love for you know, our band The Pretty Reckless and you know rock and Roll two be at the forefront of those lists. Sure, I would love for you know, the whole world to think that rock and roll is the greatest thing in the world, because I think they should think that, um and have it be you know, the most played, most popular thing in the world. But you know, but I'm also understand that it's not

always that. It's not that simple because it's not crafted for that. It's not meant for that, that's not what rock and roll is. Rock and roll is it's meant for the underdogs. It's meant for the you know, the the people are trying to find their place and you know, are a little more. Yeah, and I don't I don't like to sum everyone up in one thing. But you know, it's it's smart, it's thoughtful, it requires thoughts. It's meant to make you think. It's meant to make you feel

in a real way. Um, and that's not what people want all the time, like which you know, it's that pop music is very accessible and you can put it on in the background. I'm not trying to make background music. It's just not what I do. Okay, going back to social media, we've established that you keep part of yourself removed from social media. But to what degree do you post which platforms? You do it yourself or you have a team, And then what are your thoughts about TikTok um? Well,

I I run all my own socials. I'm pretty terrible at it. I still like but no, it's it's me like Instagram and Twitter and uh and Facebook is linked to Instagram and Twitter. Those are all me directly posting. Um and then the band sites are the four of us posting, so we all have logins to those. UM and TikTok is something that you know, everyone in the industry says you should be on and get on, jump on board with I have one I have at Taylor Momson on TikTok. I don't have a lot of posts

because I haven't quite figured it out. And uh, but you know, I think it's it's just content, right, That's all. That's all anything is. It's just constantly posting something that's kind of how I see it. And so I just try to focus that on UM sharing a little bit of my life and what I'm doing, but you know, keeping it focused on on the art and the music and UM, you know that side of things, because that's

that's what I want to share. But is there anybody on your team or yourself who says, oh, there's a track on this album and if I cut us ten second spot with this, there's a chance that'll catch on. Oh no, we're not that calculated. I probably should get someone on my team that things like that though. With the Internet is moving so quickly, I should probably get someone who's on it. Okay, Taylor, I think we've come to the end of the feeling we've known. I want

to thank you so much for taking this time. I'm glad that you're back from your unfortunate hole in the world, but good to talk to you. It's great to talk to you. Thank you so much for doing this, Bob, It's it's I've been reading you for years and it's so nice to finally speak to you semi face to face. You bet Okay, until next time. This is Bob Left Sex