Shep Gordon

And you really said almost nothing. That must have been two thousand and eight maybe, okay, but in the last handful of years you've been on a run of publicity. So what changed? Um? The documentary Mike Meyer is making that documentary. UM first to change because I had an obligation to promote it. UM. I I would have been hard to look in the mirror and not promote someone's work. After beating up all my artists to make sure they promote, they did their promotions. So that was the first wave.

Very uncomfortable, UM making speeches. I have real self worth issues that come out strongly. UM. But I'm I found that I loved moderated discussions UM, so I went through my promotion part of the journey and enjoy the interaction as long as I didn't know the questions that were being asked. UM. It really was sort of like psychotherapy and really fun UM. And people would come in the audiences that I knew from past lives, so reconnected some stuff.

And then when I thought it was over, I started to get a lot of young musicians, managers, UM, at risk people UM who were reaching out to me thinking that I had maybe some frozen food answer, that maybe I could make them happy and with two or three war words, And although I know I can't UM, I wanted to try and really fulfill them. I didn't want to, you know, UM, not give them some hope of a good life or a successful career. So I started responding to the people and that just led to more and

more of it. And now I sort of I find myself in a really bizarre position of UM being an inspiration to so many young people and maybe not to myself all the time. Yeah, how does that cross with your self worth issues? Uh? It's really bizarre because it's it's I sort of step into the character and it's ironic because your biggest act is a character. No, I was gonna say, it's very much like Alice who steps

in tell Us Cooper. For those who were just starting up, shep was the manager through the heyday and it's still the man it so you know, for him, he steps into Alice Cooper, he leaves Alice on the stage. And I found that sort of in that same thing. I try and I try and be that person that the documentary made it up here. I am, and there's certainly a part of me that are in that movie. But I'm a human. I mean, you know, I failed a

million times, which is what I want these people to know. Um, and I've done a lot of stupid things and I don't have great self worth and I still got to where I wanted to be. Okay, But you also wrote a book. What was the inspiration? How did that come together? The book was really interesting? The book was I went to just about everything in my life is um knee jerk reaction. Although it appears that I'm very calculated. Um, I don't really plan, so I didn't think about doing

a book. I got a lot of people asking me to do a book after the movie, but it wasn't even in my wheelhouse at all. But I went to Roy Choi chef here who started Kogi Trucks, who was one of my heroes, and he had a book come out, so I went. I wanted to support him. I happened to be in New York. I went to his book signing party and Anthony Bourdain was there, and he came over him and he said, I got to do your book with you. I have a publishing company. I published

roy Choice book. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you. And I said why, why? What does that mean? He said, you made Emerald Lagas famous. I became famous by beating up Emerald Lagas. I owe you big time. Okay, so what did we learn? Although you've given a pretty good answer from suddenly coming out from the shadows and being in this movie, what did we learn? Um? I'm still learning. I I learned that, um, the service is really beautiful. UM, I get a whole bit. Whole life

is based on service. But it's usually with people that I know that I have a history that has a purpose. But I'll get an email from someone who's fifteen years old and had an abusive childhood and writes poetry and always depressed and what can I do? And I spend a few minutes either in an email or I talked to him, and I think I really helped their lives for that moment. It's all about the human connection and that it's been beautiful because I didn't really have that

in my life before. I was so behind the curtains. You talk about your whole life, not only growing up, you were behind the curtains, emotionally, irrelevantive. Okay, so it's totally different. I mean, you grew up in the era I used the line of demarcations really the Beatles. There's before and after the peace and you were of the age and I was. We were conscious, but from six to let's say eighty, and then the empty v era

was a twist upon this. If you were successful, everybody knew and there was a thin layer of what was successful, whereas today you can make a record, a movie, a book, and if you can have zero impact or you could have. The other thing is these things exist forever. Prior to the VCR, basically a movie was in the theaters, might go to the revival houses, but if you haven't seen it, it doesn't go on TV. It's like it doesn't exist. We're Superman continues to be on all these streaming services.

So what is it like to be the featured person in that movie? Where movies tend to have less of an impact but longer of a life. I'm actually filling in the holes here. I'm more interested in what it's like being on your side of the equation. Yeah, it's Um, it's funny. Always really ever asked me, So I haven't really guarded there in my brain. But um I I UM, I'm sort of proud of myself. Um that your parents proud of you? Um, I have my answer. Yeah. I

think my father was always very proud of me. Um. I think my mother became proud of me when I could afford to pay the rent exactly. But let's say even say that for later discussion. But you're proud of yourself, and I'm sort of proud of myself that Um that I that I take the time too to respond to people who who are in need. Um, I went, I went out to dinner last night. Was someone who was a staple of MTV, and this particular person got there before we did and sat in the corner of a

restaurant in the b room. Obviously did not want to be recognized, wanted to have a night out. When you go out in Los Angeles, other where are you recognized? Sometimes not not overly, um, I mean, not pop star yet, but but I enjoy it when I yeah, I really enjoy it. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're

from Buffalo from note from Long Island. I was born in Jackson Heights, raised on Long Island, the ocean side, right during that Levitt Town period um when middle class families were going out to a place where it was a backyard at basketball courts. It's um great, great place to be raised. Went from there to school. Your father

did what for a living? My father was an accountant who never got his c p A. Because he just didn't bother No, he supported his family, his brother and his mother, and he just went right to work and just did his brother's mother, who was still growing up when he became an accountant. And your mother worked outside the home or not, yes, in the early days she did. She worked to the sales lady or whatever she could do. And you have a brother. I have a brother who's

a veterinarian veterinarian, really older or younger older three years? Okay, so you're growing up. What's your life like out on the island. Um, it wasn't a happy life. I mean, I think you only know the life you have, so it's hard to tell what it is. Um. But in retrospect, it wasn't for me A very I always feel. I say that the first day of my life started at the University of Buffalo. That was my starting point before we get there, and that's important. You're growing up oceanside.

Do you are you a popular kid? Do you have friends? Have friends? I wouldn't say popular. Um was it? I was on the golf caddy and on the golf team, played basketball, had some good friends. Um was Jewish, so got bullied. In those days that bullying was um part of the fabric, especially if you were Jewish. There was always somebody and you handled that. How cried. You're a pretty You're a physically someone imposing guy when you were

growing up? Were you also a big guy? Talk? I was pretty big, but I was never a physical I never had to fight. My first fight in my life and only fight was Bill Graham. Okay, wait wait, wait, wait, what what's what's killed down there? What was that about? That? Was Bill like to have a fight at his shows? He was pretty famous for that. You know, he'd like to bought. He'd pull a guy out of the stage or have he had he had to do it it shows and um he promoted al Us in Phoenix at

the Colisseum. Alice's father is a minister. And I come down and I see Bill Grab holding Alice's farther by the collar, putting them up against the wall. And I was a pretty big guy, and I was pretty rowdy, and I was you know, I used them substances to get me to places. And I said, you want to fight with someone, pal let's go. And we had a really we had a knockout, like through the doors Danny's Aleskoes first job as a security guard was that night at the show. For those who don't know, that's a

constroma based in Arizona. That this first night working, he sees Bill Grab come flying through the doors. Then I come flying through the doors. Chairs of a flying thing to going The irony is though sometimes with bullies, if you stand up to them, that neutralizes it, and they liked it. I didn't give me a chance it was just, what was your relationship like after that? Oh, yeah, no problem, did he ever mention it? We'd off the battle a

little bit, but they were there. Neither one who us really got hurt, a little bruise, a little this, and it was just it was over. So, how do you decide to go to the University of Buffalo Region scholarship furthest place in New York State Region scholarship you can only use in New York State universities. That was the farthest place from where I lived in New York State. For those peop don't know, Buffalo was really far. That's gonna be like, it was about a seven hour drive,

eighty miles something like that. Okay, So you took the bus to go to college. If the bus met my partner Joe Greenberg, who was my partner up through Alice, probably more significant in the early days of Alice than I was um and we stayed. We met on the bus. We both were in the Greyhound bus station in Manhattan, both of us staying away from our parents, were sort of embarrassed to be with our parents. Who was that

time in our life. And we sat next to each other on the bus and became buddies and partners and we both signed Alice together. Okay, so but you say your your life began first day of Buffalo. Amplify that a little, cause that was the first time I started to see that I had a life. That I didn't know what my life was. But I spent most of my life either on a basketball court or locked in my room. Um, those are the only two things I really knew. And now when I got to Buffalo, I

had friends who could come to my house. Nobody could come to my house and the child because that my brother had this dog that bid people, so I never had anybody over. Now, all of a sudden, I'm living in a community of my peers and I can come out of my door. Um, that's mind blowing for me. Um, first time early my life that I had any social contact other than my father. Now this is pre internet, pre cable TV. And one could argue that Buffalo was kind of off the grid. Well, it was called the

Berkeley of the East, very very liberal. I went to the first year it became a state university. Um, and it was that that they wanted to be the Berkeley, and they tipped. It was when the scales were tipping too far. So I had three courses taught by Dr Marty Kriegel. There were something, nothing and everything. Something. You brought a record and they would play one record. Anything, you brought two or more records. Nothing, you brought no records and just sat in the room for a half hour,

and that was I got credits. Doesn't all the sixties? Sixties? I love it? Okay, But you will start college? What? Yeah, I graduate, So it must be that's a very transitional year. It's the Vietnam time. We burned down the Roxy building. It we met. Kennedy died the first year as a freshman, and I remember all of us meeting in the middle of the street, hugging each other and crying. And then we activated. We act. We actively fought against the war

or in Vietnam. We didn't complain, we didn't get angry. We acted, which is what these kids in Florida are doing. Now. I'm gonna ask you about that. So what do you think about those kids? And I know you sponsored I am. I am so proud um to be on the same planet as these humans. Um. I was starting to lose faith in humans and seeing them and listening to them, I'm completely remotivated. Um so, what do you think happens?

Because we live in a very divided country where half the country seems to say I can't believe what's going on, and then Trump and his minions just keep marching. You know, I think on the political reality side of life, it's a very dark moment. But that's my that's my view, and I know there are people who have different views. What these kids are doing that I think is so important is they're driving us back to democracy. So as opposed to I am, as I am to the things

Trump is doing, and personally, I'm really post. If of the people in America voted for a dirty water, I could live with it, then maybe I choose to move. But and that's where they're focused. For me, the gun issue is the tip of the iceberg. It's really about getting the voice of the people back into our governing body. I mean, I wake up every morning angry, listening to the news and watching seeing these things, simple things like you can't the Census Bureau now can't tell you how

many people were at the march. That's insane, you know, it's insane. There's almost a separate podcast, but The only thing, the only interesting thing is is that I wait in on this early and I was made aware of the blowback we're talking about. And so what I find is and even you know, the the election was called wrong by the New York Times many other things. Unless you have a name with a face, you were not coming

up against these people who disagreed with you. And Frank rich Now at the New York magazine he says, because now, what are we gonna do about some people are saying, well, we should try to convince these people that their ideas are wrong. And then Frank which says, you can't do that. You just have to get out the vote. You have to get out of the vote. And so the interesting thing is we sit here and talk. You know, it's just like the demonstrations themselves. Will they make a difference.

Having lived through the sixties, you're optimistic. Having lived through the last few decades, you're pessimistic. I think I think they have a real I think if there era has been a chance, this is a chance. And the things they're doing is so brilliant. I tried to support the kids of Maui to help him out, and we did a big benefit. We did a free concert. Jack Johnson play and Steven Tyler and Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson all donated time said yes in a minute, and all of

us talked about and we talked on stage. We had fifteen kids talking. Everybody's concern was how do we move forward and not how do we move forward to beat some political party. How do we move forward to get people to vote, because that's what makes our country so great. And it stopped in Mauie. We get fift vote to turnout. We have the lowest voted turnout in the world. Everybody stoned. It's wild. It's just they don't care. And then I don't think there's they realize that they can affect the

world they live in. Well, I mean, after what happened in the year two thousand and in Virginia a couple of months ago, the individuals vote really does count, does count? So so what they did a couple of days ago, the kids from from Florida, they started an organization for kids, students who are under eighteen to get their parents and their grandparents to pledge to vote. White grandparents is going to say no to the twelve year old kid. None And in Maui. We're gonna take it one step further.

We're going to provide transportation if you're under eighteen to pick up your parents and your grandparents and take them to vote, assuming they don't rig the voting. So that that's a whole other question. Yeah, that's hard for me to help. But you know, you know that I've actually experienced that, which growing up in Connecticut, I never had that. You want to go to vote, maybe wait five minutes, you can wait like an hour to vote. I mean,

if you're someone that's responsibility. No, no, it's it's terrible thing. Okay, So you're at you be and you're thinking your future is going to be what. Um, I didn't know really at all, never thought about it. I um started in ub I started selling drugs. Um selling drugs as a hobby or saying this is a way to make money, way to make money. Yeah. And now this, of course is when most people harrow and his death, they don't know what marijuana is. And are you afraid at all

of getting arrested? Um? No, absolutely, yeah, no, absolutely. It wasn't that I wanted to do and I just didn't ever resources and that it's voke. But my freshman year. I loved it. I wanted it for myself, and then people started asking, Um, so it made sense and I ran poker games. Okay, I have to ask because you're talking about Buffalo, and I'm not that Buffalo fluid. But a few in the early seventies, the Weinstein brothers were the concert promoters in Buffalo. I knew Harvey. Well that's

the question. What was Harvey doing when you were in Buffalo? Probably the same thing, but I'll never tell what. But what was his day to day life? Harvey and Corky they had a promotion company even when you were there. Yeah, it was very successful. I think it maybe start at sixty sixty seven. Um, in the sixty this is right in the beginning. Um, I think I went to a James Brown show they did or something. So h Anyway, you're selling Marilana and running a poker game, running a

poker game, and so you are inherently entrepreneurial. Yeah, I'm I'm now learning who I am. I'm learning about myself. I'm finding way to survive, um, things that I never really did before. So for me, this is again it's like the first day in my life and up seeing who I am. I'm starting to realize some of the skills that I have, although I don't think of as skills. I think of as life support at that time, and skills. Wasn't okay while you're there. Your parents checked out leaning

on you. No, No, they were, they were. Um, they moved to Florida. My dad had a series had ten or eleven heart attacks. It was it was during the days, and they didn't have bypass or stints, so he would have that uhly nitro glycer in capsules which he took all the time. Um, and they moved out to Florida. I checked out of school on a psychiatric leave for six months, well a little slower. So how long were you in college before this happened. I was there three years,

I think it was. So what was the psychiatric leave about? It was I had I always had teachers who gave me grades for giving him marijuana, and I had a couple of teachers pull out and I would have failed the causes and the only way to not fail him was to get a psychiatric leave. So okay, So there was no real psychiatric event, and so what did that mean? You gotta go away for six months? So I went down to Florida. I live with my parents. Um, they had a want a studio apartment, so I slept in

a big closet. And how you know these are Jewish parents, How how do they feel about your absence from school? My mother was always tough on me. My father just loved me purely. It was like pure love. So he would go along with my mother. But and did you work when you were in Florida? So six months you're crying in your beer, so to speak. And then you go back to you be and then I go back to you be. Graduate. Um, I don't know what I'm gonna do? Was the sociology major? Not much you can

really do. My cousin offered me a job in New York. He had a place called Divine Garments, which made suits and dresses for funerals. Um, so I knew I had a job. So I applied to the New School for Social Research because it had just started and I heard about him. By that point in my life, I started thinking of myself like on a white horse. Um, as you know, I'm going to save the day kind of guy. Um, just I don't know where that came from. What you're gonna and you're living in New York, going to a

new school, working in the garment. You're gonna save who and what? I don't even know, but I just a new school for social research would lead you to either a welfare worker or a probation officer. Those were the two jobs there were actually okay at the time when new school started. Was there actual degree program? Yes, it was no doctorate, but I think a master's um. And you paid for this house, um going to the vine garments so you can make it. Ye, maybe had a scholarship.

I don't quite really remember. I do remember that the first blimpies was on the corner. So I had a blimpie sub a thing, all right, and it had great lighting. So I would study there a little bit. UM and a recruited came from California. From you felt I'm gonna be a probation officer. I didn't know what I was. I was gonna be something to help people. Um that that seemed to be my inclination. Um and a recruited

came from the California Probation Department. It was during the Reagan era, he was governor, and they were really abusive to hippies. There were always pictures of them up against the wall. There was that big song some Flower in My Hair in San Francisco. So I always wanted to go to California. They came in and I said, you know, I'm gonna go do this job if I get accepted. And they accepted me. So I went out to California.

It's a probation officer Los Petrinos Juvenile Hall. It's been an hour outside of l A still exists, which direction I don't remember, I don't even know it. Okay, so you get this at about an hour. Okay, at this point you fly to California, you drown, hitchhike to California only in the Yeah, hit shike maybe three quarters of the way, and end up somewhere along the way selling

some acid to someone. So I had enough money to get an aeroplane ticket for the last quarter, then hitchhike in a friend of mine named Richie Lawrence, who just retired. He he ended up owning Abrahams, Ruby, Uff and Lawrence, the big commercial agency. He was. He'd gotten a job as a producer and I can't think of the name. That was one of the talk shows, Crane less crane talk show. So I slept on his floor until school till probation office started and went down. And the first day, UM,

I had long hair past my shoulders. And the first day at the probation department, UM, they told me to take the kids out to play softball, but they didn't tell me I was going to be the softball and the kids. There were no other guys around, and the kids really kind to me. They could have hurt me, but they got around me. They started hitting me a little bit with the bats, and I knew this is I was set up. It was by this point I had some street smarts so for my stuff in Buffalo,

so I knew they was set up. And I just went back in and took my badge off and said, okay, I'm leaving. So one day, you're not even a whole day. I didn't make the whole day. UM. Drive into l A and however it's still clearly getting in. I get off the freeway on Highland and I get trapped in the right lane where you can't keep going. So I make that right and now I'm on found on Franklin Avenue and there's a motel signed vacancy. So I had maybe five hundred dollars in my pocket and a couple

of hundred hits of acid, and I pulled in. It was like thirty dollars for the night. Give me a room two two four up in the corner. I go up into the corner um and I take some of my products and uh, I hear a girl screaming, and I've just come from a jail. So I had never thought of anything but something bad. And I go down on my white horse. Did jew from Long Island saving the day? Here he comes to save the day. And I separate the two of them, and she punches me,

and I've been hit again. It's like and she they were making love. It wasn't you know. It was a beautiful thing. And when I go down to the pool in the morning, the girl ends up being Janis Chopolin, just completely random, like okay, But I have to ask at this point, Jannis Chopolin is famous. When you went into the light of the day, do you realize it's Jannis Choplin. Yes, but I wasn't that much of a music free but but she was sitting with Jimmy Hendrix,

which blew my mind. Almost speechless. Okay, so you certainly recognized and the Chambers brothers, UM and people I didn't know, who Paul Rothschild, who I got to know, who was a great producer for the doors, Um, who else? A couple of the Credens clear Water guys with it that day was it was called the Hollywood Landmark Motel. Sadly it's where Janice um. But it was rock and roll heaven for people who hadn't I didn't have in those days. There was no scale of economy, you know. Alice Alice

played sold that Madison Square Garden in seventy two. It was a dollar fifty a ticket, so acts didn't make money. It wasn't like you made money. Chambers, whether it's cousins, slept in my car in the in the lot at the hotel, um and when I saw him. So now now it's I've been one day in probation department. I

get hit at night. Now all of a sudden, I'm in front of Jimmy Hendricks, Janis Joplin, Credence clear Water, all these people, and my mind says to me, oh my god, I now have the greatest customer base for my business in the history of the world. Okay, Okay, okay, let's just go back. I want to go really slow. You're literally driving down Fountain and your Franklin okay, and nearly say that it could have been a different hotel in the whole story. Never gonna happen, It never happened,

never happened. Okay, Well, return to this conversation with Chef Gordon, super mentioned manager extraordinaire in a moment. You're listening to the Bob Left Sets podcast, recorded here at the tune In Studios in Venice, California. Each week, I interview a new guest and dive into their lives and careers. If you enjoy listening to it, subscribe, rate, and review the show. Please also check out some of the earlier episodes, like my conversation with songwriter Diane Warren or they head of

music for YouTube and Google, Lee or Cone. You can hear them all on tune in, Apple Podcast or your podcast player of choice. And now Morley, Chef Gordon, Okay, you obviously have a product these people want, absolutely, So then what happened? So we start a relationship, we become friendly. Um I saw you know, getting a little money, Um I buy a nineteen fifty four Cadillac limousine because I was a jerk, but I bought it. Chamber's brother's kids

started sleeping in it. That cousins, and you're continue to live in the hotel. I'm in the motel. You lived in a motel for I think a year and a half, two year and one day. Was sitting around a pool and Jimmie Hendrick says, I think I had just gotten like a new watch or something. And Jimmie Hendrick says, what are you going to tell the police if they ask you? Where did you get the money for the rent in the car and this stuff? And I said, I'm a middle class kid from Long Island. The police

don't ask you. And he said where I was raised. They asked you. You better have a story. He said you Jewish and I said yeah. And he said he should be a manager. All the managers are Jewish. And I said, great, who should I manage? And Lester says, I have this guy from Phoenix in my basement, Alice Cooper. I bet you if you give him ten dollars a week, you could be a manager. So Dallas tell us a story of Lester Cubby Gett is saying I found that jew is Lester cham Chambers. I don't give you ten

dollars a week to be your manager. So they all come over to the motel and I give him all the bag. By that time, I was selling grass, also marijuana, and then I give him a bag of it if we go. Okay, you're the young jew from Long Island. Does Jimmy Hendricks and Janice job and they accept you. Oh yeah, Albert Grossman was their manager, right, but even before you, before you become the manager, you're an unknown quantity of a young age and I had what they wanted. Okay.

So and you have the gift of gab. You ingratiated yourself. Oh yeah, that was okay. So at the time you become Alice and I made groupies. My first experience with groupies because those days it was free. Sex was part of the fabric. There was no age. It was the worst thing you got, okay, but you weren't famous. No, But I was in now, I was in that circle. I was in the hotel. The hotel was sort of the group they all, you know, girls thought if they could get to anybody in the hotel, then then maybe

they could beat Jimmy exactly. Okay, so then you know you're very young at the time. But for those who have been around for a while, very few of these people live up to the image Jimmy Hendrix, Janis Joplin. They were. They were amazing to me. They were amazing to me. I mean, I can't say enough good stuff. They treated me like an equal. Um, help me and so many things. Yeah, I didn't know anything. I didn't know anything. So um, I said, what do I do? And they said, well, you get them jobs and you

get him a record contract. How do I get them jobs? And let's just said, you know, we're playing a big festival. I forgot the name of in that, but I'll get I'll I'll tell our agent. They gotta put Alice on the show. And it was our first show. We played to like thirty or forty people down. No, it was I'm not really important. But okay, you obviously run out of product at some point, how do you know? No, no, no, uh, we had supplies. We we had you know, we had

It was a business. Okay, So your supplies came from your usual connections. Okay, so you didn't have to find new connections in Los Angeles, which would raise your risk. Do you get involved with Alice Cooper? And is he already put out his records with Frank's APPA. He's done nothing, He's done nothing, Okay, so how do you get the

deal with straight records? As soon as I meet Alice, he says to me, oh, by the way, Um, we played a couple of days ago for Frank's APPA and his manager, Herbie Cohne, offered us a deal and said he was going to manage us. So you have to tell him that you're doing it, not him Herb Cone, because I was giving a ten could be. So I go to Herb Cone office on will Chair Boulevard. Also living at the motel the Landmark with the G T O s who rolls together outrageously. I became very friendly

with um. They would feed me um. They were great, great girls. UM. So I knew them. And I get to the lobby and they're in the lobby of Herb's office and what are you doing it? He manages us? Where on his lay? Wise that guy that I signed, Alice Cooper, he's on the label too, but I'm going to manage him. So I get called into hers What are you doing here. I said, I'm Alice Cooper's manager.

He said, no, no, I'm Alice Cooper's manager. No no, they He ends up running after with a chair, screaming with the chair and uh Mrs Christie and Mercy and Pamela get in the middle of the here the screaming, run into the office and get me out of the office, and like stand between me and her while he's got a chair trying to hit me. Get me out of office. I get the Wow, this management thing is pretty weird. It's what everybody in l A. What's they hit me? And so we got through it. Um, it wasn't a

great experience. The Frank Zapper error. Okay, so he a lot. He agrees to let you manage the band. You put out two records. This isn't in an era with as much less cacophony, so you could get noticed. But the records were not highly reviewed or did they sell well at the time. Don't completely god disasters, I think less their bangs. And Rolling Stone said, uh something. Walt Disney had the good sense to leaving the can So, okay, you had this deal. Was there any money involved in

the deal? Nothing? And the records came out. I shouldn't say nothing. I think it was six thousand dollars was the minimum to make it legal, but they made deductions in the six thousand. We owed them money to make it. And then what was the being living on? Um my dealing? Basically? Okay, and two records that you know, the momentum is an heavy here. What are you still believing in the dream? Well? We we yes, because we had no other dreams. This has to work. This has to work, and we um

we make a pact amongst us. I remember the conversation I had with him, which I said, listen, it took twelve guys or eleven or twelve. I'm not a religious guy to make Christianity. We don't have to be that big. We got six. I'll take care of the amount of people. We just got to believe because just like in Christianity, it's belief. It doesn't necessarily be reality. So if we believe strong enough, we are going to make this happen.

And we all shook hands that we were going to stay together until we got to the place, and we, uh, how are we going to do it? That became the first conversation, Okay, how how are we going to do it obviously doing a record, which happen. That's none of that stuff is gonna work. And we talked about what what was our strength, and our strength was that everybody hated Alice Cooper. Um, we'd play holes, everybody would leave. Um, Lester Banks are saying it's something Walt Disney. So that

that was our strength, which is not easy. When you're opening for the doors and you can get two thousand people to leave a building, that's not easy. So I said, you know, let's when I was in college at social at New School, one of the professors talked about he was talking about art and social culture and how, um, people's likes are very narrow. So when you pick up when when you deal with an art you have get a narrow audience. The things that get big our social waves.

And he used the example of Elvis Presley. He said, when Elvis Presley's hips couldn't be shown on its sullivan he became an overnight success because he tapped into what every child goes through, which is rebellion of their parents. Um, it's the clothes, it's the music, it's it's everything. There's a there's a wave that every kid goes through a rebelling against the parents, and we said, well, wait a second, that's what we know how to do. We know how

to get people to hate us. We can get those parents to say Alice Cooper is the most disgusting thing in the world. At breakfast, we will get the kids to do anything to go see Alice Cooper. Now, at this late day, there's been a re evaluation of those first two records more positive than it was at the time. But there is a gigantic leap between those first two

records and Love It to Death. And one would say that no matter what the philosophy was, that you just lucidated without good music, and well, no, no, we realize that. So so that the first part was that, okay, here's our strength. So that led us to doing Alice Cooper. That led us to trying to do you know, going on stage naked to the chicken biting. But we also realized without great music, there's no way to make it.

So in the same way we did that, we sat down and we said, okay, who is the least significant band and I don't mean this in a bad way, who's had the most amount of hit records? The Beatles had hit records, but they're significant. The Rolling Stones had hit records. That's significant. The guests who from Canada. It was a band. Nobody really knew they were making the greatest records ever American woman. Well, so we went to the back. The greatest records but not thought of as

the real deal. So he said, who's doing these records? So we looked on the back. It was Jack richardson Nimbus nine Toronto. My partner and I got on an airplane and we flew to Toronto. We sat in his office for three days. He wouldn't even see us, but we made this guy was doing the record. And the back story is that he hired Bob Ezra two days before and the first thing he told Bob, and your first job is get these guys out of my office

and do not say yes. But we got him to say yes, and he came to Max's Kansas City, he saw Alice. He said he would do it. We assumed we had Jack Richardson, which we did. He did do the first record. Jack and the rest of the sort of history before we go there. You talk about your partner, and you mentioned it earlier, but how did you You're living in l a in the Landmark. How is your partner moved in with me? So you called him up and said, hey, you gotta come out here? And how

what was the division of labor um? I think he carried much more of the ball than I did. Probably in the beginning days. He got Alice's first show with Bill Graham and San Francisco, opening for Icentina Turner. He did tell him that Alice was a female folk singer, and Bill threw him off the stage. His exact line was, on I fucking stage, you either do music or you act. You're not doing both of them on my fucking stage. Get out of here. Really, how long did it last

with you and Joe? I'm less than until I would say seventy five? End um. We had some personal issues. We ended up flipping a coin, one person to take the business, one person to take the money, and he won the coin flip and he chose the money. If you would won the coin flip, would you have taken the money? Probably? Yeah? Okay, So you get involved with Bob bes Wind and Jack Richardson does Love It to Death album. Now that record doesn't do the album he does.

It's more complicated than that. So I go to my representative at Warners, Clyde Bachimo, and say I got Jack Richardson. He's agreed to do four tracks, start the record and see how it goes. And Clyde's flipped out. He said, we've been trying to get to do business with Jack Richard Are you kidding me? That is the greatest thing. And then he called him back and he says, we can't do it. Herb Cone won't allow it. What do you mean? Her conelt he doesn't want to hit. He's

scared you've gotta hit. What never made sense to me too till years later, Right, so what was the sense? What what happened was And I'm not looking for a lawsuit, but Herb and his brother were dead. Yeah, so so what happened as I put the pieces together. Herb and the head of Warner Brothers Records at the time, More Austin, were very good friends. And I don't mean to denigreat Mo at all. Life is life. You do what you have to do U. And they used to travel to

France every year. Herb had an apartment in France they stayed in. They brought drugs together, they did a lot of things together. They were very very close. Warner Brothers gave her and Frank's Appa label UM and a lot of money, and that money was to record albums. The way the way record deals worked was if you had a label, maybe they'd commit to four artists, two albums. Each artist would be a budget. In our case, the budget but I think two hundred thousand record UM. So

now they have an eight album distribution deal. And let's say it's two hundred thousand a record, that's a million six. Well, if they only spend one dollar on the record, that million six goes in their pocket. So if you look at the artists the Bizarre signed, it was wild Man Fisher, who didn't have a band, didn't play a guitar, was in an insane asylum. The g t o S who are in a group Alice, who everybody thought was the laughing stock of the world. There was no chance these

guys were ever going to sell one record. We did our first album. We showed up at Whitney Studios to work with Frank's Appa. He came at nine o'clock, introduced us to his brother. The band thought they would rehearsing. He came back at five o'clock took the tapes and that was the end of the album. That was it. It was nine o'clock to five o'clock. So he pocketed a lot of money. The only way he would have to give up that money if anybody sits the producers,

if anybody sold records. So the last thing he wanted. We ended up in a major lawsuit because a team came out of those four tracks and the label change probably twenty times because I would I would go in and say, you're not putting this out on straight. He wouldn't pay for it, um, And then he would go in and MO would call me up, I gotta put it if I have to put it on straight, um. So the label changed the copy I have sets straight, Yeah, and there's a lot of Warner Brothers ones so um.

But in any event, he does four tracks and Edrind does uh the rest of the track, and I think Edd's part of it. I think they sort of do it together. But what happened was one of the reasons that I wanted Richardson so bad was because there was Canadian content and c KALW was the breakout station in America. It was out of Canada, but Wixie in Cleveland and Rosemary Trumbley, who was programming with c KLW. If she

played a record, you had a hit. And by doing it in Canada with Jack Richardson, we came under the Canadian content rule and she had a place seventy five or eight percent Canadian content, and that got us on and when it went on the radio, Um, you could still manipulate sales. You know you you knew the record stores were the singles were, so you could send people

into buy them. And I had every relative I had in the world, and every Alice relative calling c kl W, A hundred times of data requested and it just popped and then it took off on its own. But a good album, nonetheless, dream Oh My Out of Dwight, Okay, but suddenly you have airplay. But to someone who's not involved in the center, it doesn't. It looks like it's more than a blip, but not a whole hell of a lot more than a blip. Okay, So what's the

thought after that? Everything all the same, The thought is all the same. It's where the more power we're getting, the easier it's going to be for us to hear atate parents. So we now have a record that's starting to hit. I do. I get Barbara gear Warners, who by now is having a little faith in me, to do a coming out party at the Ambassador Hotel for a debutante named Alice Cooper. We don't tell the hotel,

we don't tell anyone. Um, and you get up to what we invide all the music people that Bob calls everybody, you know, the important people, and said, you've got to be here for this. You won't believe it. And it's debutante season and everybody's at the Ambassador. Well every debutant party is. So you pull up to the thing in it the dis these girls would trade to meet you. They weren't girls. They were the cockettes from San Francisco, transvestites.

And this is in seventy um with cigars, cigarettes vasiline, which I still love. Then there were guerrillas. The entertainment was TV Mama, who was four d pounds who came out of a cake. Um. I went over to her manager during the afternoon and I said, is there any way we could get TV Mama to take her top off? And he said to me, Son, to you, she's TV Mama. To me, she's TV dinner. That would be two hundred extra and we have a great picture of her breast hitting am it her again in the face of the

front row. And that started the journey. And then we just did everything we could to tell how people say, this is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. That was our That was what we wanted for us. Winning was getting a parent at the breakfast table to tell their kids if they ever here. I'm listening to Alice Cooper, they grounded for a month and to what degreed do you believe? The success of hip hop today is based on the same theory, exactly the same theory. I can

remember I walked I have four adopted kids. I walked past their room at one o'clock in the morning, I heard for the first time wrap in hip hop. I opened the door and I said, how can you listen to this ship? And as I said it, I looked at him and I said, oh God, here's the next wave. Well staying here, you know, of course, of course, you know, we used to have a new sound every three years. You know, we had here being music replaced by Seattle Sound in the twenty one century. It hasn't gone down

that way. But the same tiking people are aging every day. So we have parents who grew up with hip hop. This may not be your number one focus this days, but you're certainly a sociologist. Is something going to come along to bump off hip hop? Oh yeah, I think. I think you see the edge sharing, you start seeing real songs coming back. There's definitely gonna be a reaction. I don't know what it is, but there's always a reaction. Okay. So from my viewpoint as an avid fan and music

drove the culture back then. We were all aware of the song I'm eighteen, heard a little bit and then it is the end of nineteen seventy one and in a boxed out review in Rolling Stone, Lester Bangs gives a rave of Alice Cooper's Love It to Death and they at the time, uh, rolling Stone was famous for

doing hoaxes. They had the Great White Wonder. This was such an over the top rave, Great White Wonder exactly that you said, I'm going to buy this record even if it sucks, because i want to see what's going on. I remember literally buying the record, dropping the needle on under my wheels, and you got it immediately. The Great White One. The financed us buying all our amplifiers. I was, I did the Great White One there, okay, well tell

my audience what that is. Great White There was a time in the history of copyright lore where it was not illegal to record a live concert and sell it. So I was able to record Rolling Stones Bob Dylan and sell it, sell it legally. We did it in white album jackets and the Great White One that was I think Dylan. I don't remember which was which, Um, but we did Rolling Stones. We did a bunch and then the copyright law changed. Was that when it was seventy that's wild? Yeah, okay, so did you ever get

in trouble? I had one interesting moment I had done Oh that's that's right. So it's seventy two. I had done the Toronto Pop Festival, which was seventy two and with John Lennon and the co promoters were people who owned the big department store chained the Eatons in Canada and a film named Kenny Walker. And um, they knew I was did the Great White One because it was legal, so I wasn't hiding it from anyone, and they called

me up to buy the master tapes. They offered me two hundred thousand dollars, which was a lot of money. Oh my god, master tapes. I had everything, even thought about thousand dollars um. And I said to him, you know there are no master tapes, and he said, I don't care. I want to buy the master tapes from it. And I just my streets nose went up. So I went to a lawyer named David Ruddick. I don't know if you remember him. He he was on Sunset Boulevard

as a music business attorney. I told him the story. I said, what could they be trying to do? Why? And they won't come to me. I have to go to them. And he said, you know, the only thing I can think of is if you bring something at the Canada and you sell it for two hundred thousand and you didn't report it, that's a serious thing, he said. So I'll tell you what to do, he said. I had a customer, Sam, the record man. He was one of my big customers for the Great White One. There.

So I went, I flew up. I went to Sam's over the counter, bought Great White One. They got a receipt for it. I went to a recording studio in Toronto, took that record, put it on a piece of tape, got a bill from the recording studio, so now legitimize legitimized. I go to the hotel on Avenue Road whose name I can't think of, and I walk into the suite where the exchange is going to be made, and Kenny Walker and then come in and have a suitcase two

hundred thousand knowledge Canadian. They open it up, I give him the tape and Alan Klein comes out of the bathroom with four maltis. Alan Clyde was the Beatles manager and I had done Beetles and rolling stones were part of the come out. They put handcuffs on me and my partner Joe, because we were still partners then, and uh, we say listen, we knew what they were up to. They take us to the station house and I said, oh,

lawyer knew exactly what they were doing. I said, unless you have a law in Canada that it's illegal to get two hundred thousand for something that's worthless. Here's the receipt. We bought it at Sam the record man. Here's the receipt for the studio. They took about half an hour a prosecutor came. We waited for him to come. You

look through the receipts and they let us go. It's the last time I ever saw Alan Klein and you didn't get to stay right there, We'll be back with more of Chef Gordon, legendary manager of rock stars chefs and even Groucho Marks right here on the Bob left Sets podcast. Hi, this is Bob left Sets. My guest come to the tune In studios in Venice, California to

have these conversations with me. And if you ever want to see what they look like where we take the show, check out the photos and videos search at tune In on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Let's dive right back in with my guest, Sheep Gordon. So, uh, now Killer comes out. You start to feel the momentum. Yeah yeah, we could feel it, off of it to death, but we couldn't turn it into monetary success um. Killer. We start, you know, billion dollar babies Killer. We start to really fuel our oats.

Now we're in stride and having a good time, okay, and then of course the tipping point is schools Out, which becomes an anthem and says everything we've focused all that angst for us, it was like doing a Who song that was sort of the top of the wrong was that Who? Who knew how to do anthems of rebellion? Okay, you had all these innovative packages, you know, whether it be Muscle of Love with certain stains on the box

or whether it be the panties on. That was one of my biggest mistakes in my career with Alice, was that box. Why? Because I didn't realize that the thickness in those days, most of your sales were rack sales, which means you walked into a store that wasn't a record store and they have twenty or thirty records in the stack. I could only do if it held twenty, I could only do ten. So my Alice's bins were

empty all the time because they only were read. However, as a big fan, that album was not as good as its spread us, and I think that was part of it. Also. It was it was when the group was starting to come apart. Okay, Bob Green goes on the road, writes a book. How does that come still? And the book still holds up? But how does that come together? Comes together? My idea, I think he had done a book on the Kennedy campaign on and I

wanted real credibility for Alice. UM. I felt that it was time to now go from hatred of the parents to put some steaks in the ground and a book by a guy who did the Kennedy thing to me was putting a stake in the ground. And the same thing with the golf uh no golf. I that was to help him with this alcoholism. I knew it was difficult for his career, um, and a truth to be very difficult for his career. Okay, so then the band breaks up, there's a solo album. What's really going on

at that point? You know, Um, it's really interesting. Living in the bubble of stardom is really tough. UM. I have a lot of sympathy for it, and and it became very different points of view on the success. UM. The rhythm of a day was that Alice would get up at eight o'clock or nine o'clock in the morning, drink all day, but work all day. He would do fifty interviews every day because it was everywhere in the world and we was so hot, and he was the

only one who really could do good interviews. So he was our focal point. We early on in the career, um we met it. We maybe ten weeks after I had met him, we went to a lady named pat King police office, who she was the PR person, and we had this idea about parents hating. I said, who's the best person to do with? Someone gave me her name, she was gracious enough to meet me. I've brought the band with me and after I talked to she has the band, to go out in the lobby and she said, listen, Chef,

give me one person named now. Because Alice was named Vincent, he wasn't. Oh okay, So what point in the career did this is it? I'm going to tell you the story. So she said, they're going to lobby. Says, Chef, you gotta give me one person named Alice Cooper. I don't know how to make five guys with a girl's name famous. You give me one of them that I know how to do. It's the right time. You have a great idea.

So I go out in her lobby and I said, listen, guys, we gotta pick one of you to be Alice Cooper. Because she said, that's you know the way it's gonna work. And she's great, and right there in the lobby we picked Alice. This is before any records. This is before anything. Okay, So now, no, no, I think it's maybe after the first record. If you look on the first couple of records, I think it's Vincent Fernie. It's not Alice Cooper, I believe. Okay, So what point does the band wake up and say, hey,

wait a minute. So I'm gonna tell you what the rest of it. So he's working hard all day. So but but right at that point, shortly thereafter, we sit him all down and Alice in the group and I say, listen, we're going to change his name illegally, which means you guys are in real jeopardy. But um, what we need to do right now we shake hands. The tour all millionaires. Nobody is leaving this thing. Once you're all millionaires. We sit and talk, but and I was very focused on Alice,

basically saying, we're giving you the gauntlet. You're not taking this right away from us. This is like you know, um, And we all shook hands on it. So we got to the point where we were almost million airs maybe we had three hundred four, which was like millionairess not even know if we had that much, but everyone now could afford a car. Now for the first time, they were all living on their own. Wasn't a group house. Um. We were able to fly places. I didn't have to

bounce checks. We were starting to really make it and you could see on the horizon. Nine seventy two they had the biggest tour in the world. Led Zeppelin was the second big so he could see it's we're right there. And the guys asked me if I would come to a meeting. They never asked me to come to a meeting. And I go up to Connecticut and I sit down and they just fomb it out. They said that, Um,

I had let me back up. I had this running battle with him for the year previous, which was every night they wanted to just do the show in dungarees and not do the theatrics, and every night I would have to get really intense about you know, think about the people in the audience, what they're here for, or forget yourselves. Um and I beat him into it. But it wasn't a happy thing. It was. It got to be very intense every night, and that was what the

meeting was about people don't appreciate our music. They think of as a novelty. Alice gets all the attention. We wanted to leave. We want to break up. We want to put it on hold for a year or two and do our own records so people will see that we're really talented musicians. And my take on it was, hey, we shook hands. It was so close, like, let's just wait, and they wouldn't do it. Um, And I said, you know, I said, I'm gonna go with Alice. I'm not going

to be part of your guys journey. It's not First of all, I don't break my word. Secondly, I don't really know what you do. Um. I know you know. Um. And we never had a right, we never had an argument. We're still all friendly. They just played shows with England. Um. Okay. So slowly the band walked from Alice. So at what point did the band, because these are human beings, have sour grapes. I don't know, but I'm sure fairly soon.

And did they ever come crawling back? Oh? No, that we've both it's not a matter of crawling or anything. We've been really good friends. Um. There's never been a moment of anything but friendship and respect for each other. They made a bad decision. They made a bad decision, but they didn't knock on the door ready to be the backing big they'd love to be back in Yeah, yeah, but no reason. So why in the last couple of years have they suddenly been playing with Alice? Because it's

a really nice thing to do. Alice loves that, the audience loves it. Um, it's great for them. It's you know, it's been a long time. I think it's a great moment. I mean, our job is to make the audience happy. It's not to make ourselves happy. It's the and I you know, when we're writing it, we know that that makes the audience happy. There is a part of the audience. So they do three or four songs. At the end, Alice can still do a show and the way he wants to um, And it's nice for them. They're back

on stage and all of them together. They all love each other, these kids who went to high school together. So if it's you know, if it's basically is his bifurcation, when do you get your next client? I got my next time. Before that, I got Um and Murray was probably seventy three, ish if I maybe a little later. Okay in Murray this is before Snowbird. No, this is as Snowbird is number one. Okay, how does she find you?

Who's the previous record company? Go? Brian to Hearn producer met me during the John Lennon days when I did the festival up there. Um I had helped him get his recording studio together, an actron I got want us to finance. We had a good relationship and he called me up about managing her and the record was number one, and I I was. I was sort when he called. I said, you know, let me this is a great way for me to see if I have any skills

or not. Alice was, you know, I have no idea how much I was of it and how much it was fate. So let me see if the principles work for any And I was very open with her and honest that I you know, I don't know what kind of job I can do, and you know I may have gotten lucky, but if you want to take a role. And it went on for how long? I went on for about four years, five years, and everybody was happy. Okay,

let's go back to this era. As we've established, ticket prices were cheaper, the world was both smaller and bigger at the same time. In retrospect that you let a lot of money flow through your fingers. Oh yeah, absolutely, well we still do. I never been. I used to tell every actor would come in. If you're looking to make the most amount of money, I am so the wrong guy for you. But if you're looking to not need your second name, I'm your guy. Like I know

how to make your famous. I'm not the best in monetizing. And you look at someone like her career and what he's done to monetize is just so brilliant. My hats off to him every time. Um brilliant. But it's not what I It's just not what I do. Okay. So after we had Murray, then what's next? A couple of really great ones in the middle gradual marks you John

or Raquel Welsh? What did you do for Raquel? Raquel was a great one to Raquel called me up and said, I'm literally I yew that freak that helped make Alex Cooper famous said, he said, you take immediate Academy Awards tomorrow night. And I went within the Academy Awards, which was unbelievable. I remember I wore something green and the sweater around my arg pitch made it dark by the

time I got there. And she was very honest. She said that she was aging, had two children, she had a support on her own, knew that as a sex star movie Starr, her years were limited in her income and that she needed to make a living in that maybe I could figure out something. And to me, it was so obvious, And Margaret was gigantic in Vegas UM, so it was so obvious to me. The highway was already built. I just had to put her on that train.

So I hired UH and Margaret's choreographer, guy named Robbit Scuff, and UM got her a long term deal with Caesar's UM and and was it saying, I mean, you obviously got paid, but people wanted to go, oh yeah, yeah, we did really well. Why do you think uh, sex symbol Vegas UM right setting, and Margaret said, a fantastic blazing UM. You know, she was the trailblazer and her

shows were incredible. So it was an entertaining night and you got to see rac yel was safe for a guy to bring his wife and still maybe get a heart on Okay, So then how do we come with Blondie and Luther V Andrew's uh. And then by then I started to get a reputation, um and and I made a decision, UM that the toughest part of management how the artists would react to fame into having a voice. So I decided I would only take on acts I had. I was fortunate enough that most artists wanted me to

manage him. They knew I didn't sign contracts. The word had gotten around I did unique stuff. So I would only take acts if they had number one records, because then I knew they were sort of fire tested, had survived. So Blondie I think was Chrysalis who came to me, Um, Luther Vandross was okay. So you got involved with Blondie after Heart of Glass hit, after their Heart of Glass before Rapture, and Luther v Andros Luther was after his first record. Let's go a little bit deeper into fire

tested with their fame. Give us those people obviously could handle it. Give us examples of people who couldn't. Um, I don't know, because you don't hear about them. No, I don't need the names. Yeah, not not in my life? What would it? What would it look like? Um? It could look like anything. It looks like drugs, it could look like um, um, insanity, it could look like ego, UM, so many things. Well, how hard is it to be famous? Really tough? Really tough? What are the key elements to

be able to cope? I think having people around you that don't say yes, it's really important. Um. And I think am I found I loved hearing Open Winfrey the other day saying the kind of thing I try and always tell my clients. They asked her why she feels she successful, and she says, the most important thing in my life is I wake up every day and the first thing I do before I get out of bed is say thank you. And I say thank you for waking up, thank you for giving me this day, he says.

And it starts my day with gratitude. Um. And that's what I always tried to really push into the artist that I worked with brain, is that it's not about you, it's about them. Um. Okay, you know who was it? Somebody? Uh? Oh. The book about Joan Winner and Rolling Stone came out four or five months ago, and Johan is telling relating the story of becoming friendly with John and Yoko showing around San Francisco, going to lunch and somebody comes up

for John Lennon's autograph and Lennon says, fuck off. Okay, that's the opposite of someone like Jon bon Jovi, who's being nice to everybody. Benning oldly got angry with his record company ironically about a year ago. But you know, you have someone like Bob Dylan, who's elusive and an icon, and you have other people are glad he and he isn't what makes you famous being the beacon and being different and not worrying about what the audience thinks. I think.

I think there's a different paths for everything, but for in my journey, I can't take that path. Look at your personal journey, but the and the journey with my art. Okay, you know you So we're in a strange era now where unless you're hip hop act, no one's listening to the new music anyway. But do you want to tell you to tell your artists just give them what they want, take the pay day, move on. I don't think. I

don't think it's a matter of just giving it. I didn't mean it that way, So tell me how you meant it. I meant it. Um. If Alice knows that his audience would really enjoy having the old guys on stage with them, why not do it. It doesn't compromise his art at all. Um. Okay, Let's let's use someone of Alice's vintage. Okay, and let's leave Alice aside. Let's say you were representing, and there's tons of them. Acts had gargantuan hits in the seventies who were still on

the road or maybe even the eighties. Do be Brothers in the seventies def Leopard in the eighties, these were gigantic, identic and can still sell tickets today. Generally speaking, one believes people want to pay their money and hear the hits per Actually, you have to play the hits. What do you tell an act like that, That is you just say, be thankful that anybody wants to see you, or yeah, and play your hits. Okay, And you have to play your hits and what about And I said

the same to the chefs when I manage them. You have to play your hits. It's exactly like songwriting. If you went to Spago and they didn't have pizza. That would be like going to the Rolling Stones and not hearing their hits. And then when the artist says, I'm stifled, I have to express my creativity. You try and make a balance and help them work through it and get some kind of a balance, um, and try and make it work. And they, unless they're completely unconscious, if they'll

see it immediately with the reaction of the audience. And there's I don't know any entertainer who's been in it for a while who doesn't want the the emulation of their audience, all right, right, you know, it's all about the attention. That's where they're doing much more than the money. So when the artist says, I'm frustrated, I have to express myself, but I don't think my audience can handle this. How do you cope with that? I mean I would It depends on who it is, but I try and work.

Maybe I would say to me, why don't we go to a small club somewhere, try it out, see how it feels. Well, let's do an invited audience. Um, each one is pliable, but but try and keep him on focus about it's a service business, okay, So let's go specifically to Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper certainly has a number of hits, can play to the end of his career, selling a certain number of tickets because of the change in society and Halloween becoming such a big deal he's

been associated with that. Is there any way to make him bigger than he already is? Um? You know it's it's um. It's hard for me to determine that he's been on a rising. He's been rising. Um. And we just keep trying to the right things. We keept trying to make interesting new product. We try and make the shows as exciting as we can. Um. And we try and be as pure at Alice Cooper, which we can be. Everything we judge is what would Alice do? Um? But are we going to be Justin Bieber again? We would

love to, of course, we'd love to. But is that reality? I don't know if it's reality. But all we have he a happy artist. He just loves what he does. How many dates do he does? A hundred and thirty? He does a radio show five nights a week. Um, he loves it. He truly loves it. Yeah, I tell he would pay to do it if they didn't pay him. So How did you get involved with the Chefs? Um The Chefs was a a work of passion, sort of like I won the con Film Festival in nineteen seventy seven.

I got taken to a restaurant in the south of France. It was Ridley Scott's first movie called The Duellist. In my first movie, And how do you decide to get in the movies? I got in. There was a girl named Carolin Pheiffer who were in, who was Pat Kingsley's associate in England, and she was very instrumental in Alice's career. England was very important to us and she was very, very instrumental, and we developed a love for her. Alice and I. Alice had a love hate because she worked

them so hard. I had a pure love. And the baby on Billion Dollar Babies was her daughter, Lola, the one that Alice is holding up. And the baby had a crib death for six months and Carolin worked out of her house. Charlie Chaplin was the baby's godfather. Um, so you know you'd walk into the apartment to be Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, Charlie Chaplin, oh, Marshal Reef. That was the life she lived in, and she called me up and she said, you know, Um, I can't go

back into my apartment. I gotta leave the happy job for me. So I said, come on that. She she represented rack Heel, So I said, come on, just work with me on rack Keel. Come to you know l A and we got you covered. So she came in. She worked with rack Heel. She brought it in a couple of other artists, Sarah Miles. I don't remember, sis um, Sarah Miles. She had read that great controversy which one the guy in the bathtub exactly. So she said, I

an article and Esquire about twenty years ago. Exhausted said, three guys committed suicide over her. Yeah, well, okay, I'm not a witness. Okay, she that cares. She was certainly attractive though she was very cool. But it is that charismatic that the guy just could not get over quirky. But she was great. Um. We did. She wanted to vomit up that whole thing, so we did with Bill

Graham at the A c T in San Francisco. We did a one woman show s smiles as me smiles um, where she vomited up that whole thing about the finding the guy in the bathtub and it was really beautiful for her. Carolin came and she didn't like management at all. So I said, what do you want to do? And she said, you know, I'd love to make movies. As a younger person. She had been an assistant to Omar Sharief on the set of Lawrence of Arabia. It was

in her blood. So UM I asked her who she thought she'd like to learn from, and it was a young guy named David Putnam. So I found David and hired him. Hired David. They were on a film company. We started a live films in. Our first project was a duelist with FRIDDLEI Scott David produced that the money came from where. Um there was a wonderful man and United artist named David Picker who loved Karen and the

way we all did. And Um, David Putnam and I went into his office and we told him the story about Carolin doing the man and we didn't even finish the story and he said, you got a million dollars, do anything you want to do as long as Caroline is involved. So UM, the Duelists ended up being the project, and so we win the con Film Festival with it. Ever make you ever get paid on that? We got some small producers feed it never got released although we won the con Film Festival. It was David Picker at

Finance when we won. We brought it back to show him at the studio at Paramount on Merrows. He had been fired that weekend and Michael Eiser and Barry Dilla took over the studio. They came from ABC TV and they watched five minutes of the movie with us. We were all in the screening room so proud, Oh my god, that cod We're gonna be these guys. We're gonna rape these guys for our next movie, you know, ovitually thinking

of twelve pickured deal. They stopped the movie after ten minutes and got up and said, listen, we come from television. We don't really like this kind of stuff. Um, we're not gonna put it out. And that was it never got to put up. But what played Boston one week? Um so they could get it on paid, you think. Um. But anyway, so I go into this restaurant called the Mulan Dejan south of France. It's where all the big shots are. Clint Eastwood's in there, and uh, Anthony, could

I not think of his name? Anthony Quinn, James Coburn, we're all there. Days you could smoke poveratti Boba strives in and we've just won the festival where like you know, and um, I'm looking around. Everybody's smoking cigarettes and their knees are bouncing up and down. They're looking around the room. Nobody's looking really at their table. And I thinking to myself, and I'm at this time, I'm now doing way too much cocaine and everything and drinking too much, and and

I look around. I'm a young kid, and I said, wait a second, I'm becoming one of them. My knee is gonna start bouncing and sweating and boom. And I started to really think about it, and into the room walked this elderly white head man in a white suit, and this hush came over the room and James Cockburn jumped up and hugged him, and Anthony Quinn and people waiting in line to hug him. And I said, that's who I want to be. I want to be that calm, the you know, pool in the middle of the storm.

Who is this guy? And they told me he owned the place and he was a chef. And I waited till um to everybody left, I said, I take a cab home, and I went over to him. He was alone with that he was having to drink with someone, and I told him I wanted to be his grasshopper. But this I was pretty fucked up at this point, and the grass in the Kung Fu had There was a TV show and David was the grasshopper for this wise man. So I said, I didn't realize he didn't

speak English. Wise, I want to be a grasshopper. What is this grasshopper? So I explained to I just wanted to be around them. And he said that you cook, and I said no. He said, well, if you learned to cook, I'll let you work in the kitchen one day. And he gave me the names of some cooking schools and I left and I went to the cooking schools really, which Marcella Hanson in Bologna and um Charlie's in Bangkok at the Oriental. Those are the two names he wrote down.

And then I came back. The next year. I was very lucky. I had a moving in the festival. Maybe the next twelve or thirteen years in a row. So I come back. I showed up at the restaurant. Okay, I'm here. I went to the schools and he had no idea who I was at all, and they said, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm leaving for Bangkok right after the festival, and I said, can I go with you? And he said yes. And I was with George Griff who actually knew him. So I said, George, come with me, so

he'll deal with me. And we went to Bangkok and stayed with him. And that started, UM, this really close relationship where I was his grasshopper for the next twenty years. UM, take his jacket off, put it on, moved the chair out, and I loved it. I mean, I just love that. And UM, at one point he said to me, I said, what can I do for you? You? I can't imagine my life without you. And you said, give my give my profession some dignity. Um. You know, in Europe they

treat us like we deserve to be treated. In America, it's and I had gotten to know all the chefs because I was his groupie. They all ad they no one knew who I was. They just knew that I was this guy who pulled his chair out and paid the bills and did everything. So I knew I got to meet all the guys wolf Gang Nobu because wherever Verge was, they were all congregated, so like Chuck Berry

was in town for the rock and Rollers. And when they Wolfgang asked me to come over to Spago, and uh, I had told him about Mr Vige asking me to, you know, try and do something maybe change in ninetamics. Nobody was making any money. Nobody had two restaurants. Um, this is there was nobody with two restaurants. Wolf Gang maybe made a hundred thousand, that was probably the biggest the country. And he uh, it was the first year he was doing his festival at Universal, so he had

all the chefs in town. And I went over to Spago lunchtime wasn't opening. There were like a Norman rockwall painting of you know, Paul Prude home, Alice Waters um no Bood Daniel and a big banner in the back that just said help. So I decided I sort of owed it to Mr Verge and that I had the skills that I knew how to do. So what did you start to do? Well? At first? I thought about it, and UM, I realized I did some studying. I looked at other art forms that UM that came to prominence.

UM golf was was one because McCormick had written a book about how he took it from Yeah. He talked about Arnold Palmer being his first client, driving overnight from tournament to tournament, barely getting gas money, and then he got ABC wide World of Sports Jim McKay to broadcast the tournament. Once he got broadcast everything he started happening fast and now on a Palmer owned the golf courses.

So I went to the guys and I at the second meeting, I sent them all the book and then I said, listen, we authorized me to if I can find a broadcast partner, will you authorize me to give up your services for three or four years for free because if you get on TV, we win, game said match it's over. And I was doing everything pro bono. So I just wanted to get out of there, and I got the Food Network. Helped to get the Food Network on the air. The big star, of course, was Emerald,

because Emerald was willing. He was the only one who was willing to treat it as a different profession. He went to tutoring school. He he had a videographer's work with him. Um, we developed BAM, we developed a personality for him. It was fit the medium. Um. He was the only one willing to do and everybody else wanted to be who they were and do their cooking. They didn't see it as an entertainment form. Emerald got it eventually. Emerald was the biggest start and then it ended. Why

did it end? What the Food TV? The TV Food Network ended not Emerald. They made a decision and I guess in some way rightfully so although it was difficult for the chefs to take that um it was too organic and too real, and that they wanted to move in more towards reality television. And they brought in a new lady to run the network, UM who was completely the felt the people who started a network, Reece and his wife were very vocal about how they hated chefs,

like vehemently talked about it. I thought they were like, you know, um, but they they made that a living. This new girl who came in was a TV executive of who was very bizarre. UM. I remember I had this. I think Emerald wrote about it in his book, so I think I can talk about it. But I had stopped managing and I did it all for free. So once it'd worked over, there was a great moment. We were walking that park avenue out of a cab. A guy stuck his head out and said bam, and I

third to em and I said, I'm out right. So uh, he said, you gotta come down. We just got a one rating, and that was our dream when we started, was to get a one rating. I left before they got a one rating, so I go down. When I get there, he's just I'm so sorry. I can't go to dinner with it tonight the Neon they just named the new head of the network. She's here tonight. She wants me to go to dinner and she'd love to talk to you. So he brought me over, introduced me.

He went to tape the show, and she was very complimentary. I said, listen, can I tell you what I want to talk to Amaron about the night? It's true, you know, I'm gonna tell him. He's really going to make a decision. Um, he's got to either be a TV personality or a cook. He's gonna have to give up the restaurants or give up the TV. I'm not going to re up his contract. And I said, you realize you just got one rating this week? Said yeah, but that's and I said, you

realize you pay him two hundred dollars a show. How much are you gonna raise that I can't afford to give him a raise? I said, you're gonna actually tell him on the day you got a one rating that he has to give up his income, move his family into like warehouse, um housing. Go on, So go on welfare in order to do your TV shows. You are out of your mind. And they go to a restaurant on Madison Avenue and seventy great with the best bolonaise

in the world. By the way, send send something. And I get a call from the major d Paulo Della Pooper at about eleven thirty at night that the police have just come because Emerald threw the table on some woman. Wo He did end up having a talk show right on ABC, which didn't quite work. Okay, So if we pull the curtain back, the problem is this is like reading a self help book. I mean read a self

help book and it and there's a huge business in that. Okay, and I remember I would go to the psychiatrist who would reinforce it. The self help book may be good, but you're not the person who fits with that self help book. Okay, so you've obviously been ultra successful. Someone comes to you and says, I want to be you. What do you tell them or evaluate them to steer them on a course so that they will be successful?

You know? I tell him that, UM, I wish I had the power to snap my fingers and help them, and that I don't have any answers, but I can tell them some of the things that I think are important. And I think it's waking up earlier and going to sleep later and working during the time Europe UM. I think that UM Embracing failure is really important. UM. And I try to then hone in onto what their specific need is, but not to be scared of failure. Live at your dreams. I always tell them, you are going

to die. You're going to die. Make the time between now and you're dying really important. Do what you want to do, don't do something out of fear of failure. Lived for the the excitement of success, and if you fail, that just gets you one inch closer to making it. And if you're if the person who's calling me is trying to be a successful musician or trying to be an actor, or trying to be a player, right, I remind them that every rejection is one step closer to acceptance.

And any star they talked to in any field has been rejected for years before they become famous. Well, now, the barrier to entry and so many things is very low. And I certainly hear from people who believe in themselves, but if you are exposed to the work, they could never make it. Yeah, it's a reality. Okay, So you know on some level failure is good for a certain subset of the overall population. Then there's other mean, I

believe Bob Dylan from a dear loan landlord. It's each of us has his own special gift and you know that was meant to be true. And if you don't underestimate me, I won't underestimate you. But you have to find out what it is that you do well. When I guess when I say failure, I mean on the on your journey. So if you're a manager of a young artist, don't be scared to do the wrong thing, but do something that's where I mean failure. I don't. That's sort of where I focus what you're basically saying,

don't be paralyzed by the situation. If you were twenty two today, do you think you would take the same path, I have no idea. I think my path was so a a result of opportunities that came rather than calculated that. I can't tell you yes, but you took advantage of the opportunities. Yes, when you first of all, you were willing to quit the job with the probation the probation department be I don't care who you are. It is not easy to ingratiate oneself with famous people. It is

not there on guard. They've been hit up a million times. So not only did you have a product they wanted, you obviously have the gift of gab whatever that they liked him. Okay, so these are certain skills that not everybody has. Well, I always had. Service was part of my aim before I realized that. And in the life of an artist, if you do things for him, that's big. So I naturally would like, you know, drive him somewhere

if they needed to be driven. Nobody had cars except me, um, I would drive him home if they were drunk, not because they were are, but because I could in the back of your mind, though you thought this will bond me to this person. I wouldn't say. Maybe some self interest in everything you do, I think, Um, but it was just my natural. It was always my natural. My dad was very much like that. UM, and I think I I I'm lucky enough to have some of it rubbed it off. Okay, so you've obviously been let go

by a certain number of clients. Okay, and Murray and Murray was really any Loggins and Murray? And what happened with both of those how today? And Murray I never knew until I read her book, which was what which was really interesting. She said that they realized that they needed something if they were going to make it big, and they heard about me, and they knew that I

didn't make them sign contracts. So her and her manager at the time decided they would hire me, learn everything they could, get to the goal they wanted, and then fire me. And that's what they did. So when she did fire you decades back, you must have said, I have no idea what's going on here? I didn't care. I was it didn't matter and what app with Kenny Loggins. Kenny Loggins it's um I can't actually talk about, but

it was personal. It was you had done something he no no, he UM wanted me to do something I was uncomfortable doing. And we're still great friends, okay, and then you parted ways. A guy from my office I think went off to management. UM. I just saw him. Were just how Hi up at Botle Rock, which was really great. So in the time you have left, what would you like to accomplish? If anything? I have no idea. I'm really UM. I get excited when I can use

my skills that I've hoped to do something that maybe matters. UM. So this Saturday in Maui, I put together a free concert for the students. Kids came and it was to support the Florida students and it was Concert for Our Lives with Jack Johnson, Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson, Steven Tyler, Lily Miolay named Willie Kay who was amazing there and I think ten students, speakers, UM and Senator Corono, Representative gavern Um. The Maui News wrote a beautiful review that

sort of brought a tear to my eye. I felt so proud. But it was last night at the mac. Hundred people entered the the concert an hour and a half later, people whose lives had been changed permanently. That's that's a review. You don't usually got left the concert. Never on the island of Maui, as our feeling of Ohanna been stronger. Um. And that really was touching to me because that's what we tried for. Now you're on Maui.

How much of the year I lived there, But yeah, but we all try today nine months a year, nine months a year. So what does the typical day look like? It's beautiful, Um, the weather is beautiful. Um. I wake up in the morning, have a cup of coffee. Um, where surrong most of the day. But I put on a bathing So now to take a walk, so I yeah, that's a my emails. Then I take a walk down the beach. If there's somebody around that I know, they walk with me and come back to some more emails.

And then there's always some project that takes some time, whether it's Alice's new tour, I'm working with the Hollywood Vampires. We we sort of put that together, so we work on that, think about what I'm gonna have for dinner. That's usually the first I get in the jacuzzi after my walk and think about dinner. This is what time of day now we're at about seven o'clock. Um, some

poor coffee, too much coffee. Um, smoke a joiner to um, do my thinking, because that's that's sort of what I try do for Alice and everyone, to get ahead of them for a year and visualize and try and manifest what I want to see and then try and create, um, what I want. And then I usually go play some golf. I'm not good at all. What's your handicap? I'm a fifteen it is probably a twenty. Now I'm not terrible, and I play three I know gambo, don't keep scoring,

play five six holes and then have dinner. And we have such an amazing community on Maui of um, both visiting people because everybody visits, and people from my world of experience who lived there. So Steven Tyler lives there, Mick Fleetwood lives there, Um, Sammy Hagar, Owen Wilson, Woody Harrelson, and they're just people on Maui and we hang and they play music and backyards and we have good meals

and we do great stuff for the community. How how often are you seeing these people if you're that's my life. We did seventy birthday party for Stephen Saturday night. I helped put together. Um. I don't think a week doesn't go by where I'm not just involved with him. We have dinners and we hang out Stephen. All all of them care about MAUI. Stephen just went to the Drug Court for graduation unannounced, gave the whole speech which was just so beautiful. Um. Mc fleetwood has a club there

where he plays whenever he's in town. He plays a couple of nights a week. This week he had Neil Finn with him. Yeah, who came and did our concert Saturday. Hey now hey now, great song, great guy. Um. So it's just it's an amazing community. You never get Island fever, never for a second. Ever. When did you move there? Moved there? I'm in the same house. So what you would say is your expertise is thinking. Probably would say my uh, because there are things we didn't cover here

that I'm aware of. You certainly had a number of publicity stunts, whether it be with stuff in London with Alice Cooper or Luther, Van and Ross and the women's on these concerts, etcetera. To what degree are those stunts that has a negative connotation? But I don't mean in a negative way, integral to the success of these I think, I think really important. I think that's why I always had great relationships with the artists, because I mean, let's take Teddy for an example. So how do I separate

Teddy from Luther? How do I Teddy from Luther? How do I define to why I'm at a point in his career. I have every black woman in America getting wet panties everyone? How do I move them to the white arena? I have a black elvis? How do I move them? Um? So I have you joined it to sit in my hot tub? I think about, Okay, what would I like to see? What would tell people out

there who maybe you're peeking in what we well? What about if he did a concert and it was just women in the audience and I can get do it at a big enough level that people white women will hear that there's this artist that those shows for women only. What the hell is going on? So I go back to Teddy and I say, I think I know how to get this across women only. And he looks at me like I'm crazy and he can we do it? And as lawyer tells us, we can't do it because

it's discrimination lawyers. He can't just sell to uh. And I said, no, we'll sell to anybody. I work my way around that. I get another lawyer's opinion. I go to a record company. You can't do it, will kill his career. Every man in the world burned the records. No, no, I'm doing it. You know this is gonna work. Um. And then I manifest what do I want those women doing on them? Like going crazy? So I make chocolate Teddy Bear lollypops up to take a lick on. But

that's all because I thought about it. What do I want to see that day? And then manifested to be reality, um, which is you know, that's what I did as a manager. So I was never the best of making the most money on that path, but I was good at thinking of So how do let me Luther? So how do you do that for Luther? You know, how do I define where Teddy is pure sex? It's women licking lollypops, It's just pure unadulterated sex. Luther is romance? How do I how do I do the same thing for romance?

What we ended up doing was in the top ten markets in America. You got married by Luther on the air, the the priest marriage that he sank to you on the air, And how many people lined up for that? Oh my god. But his songs became the biggest thing in weddings for the next two years. And it's a fine romance as opposed to sex. So it became I was very proud of that. In today's god confidence world, do you think you can achieve the same thing with publicity?

Look at I mean I this may be completely off base, and I'm sorry if it is, but I thought the Elevator incident with Beyonce and jay Z, I knew there was gonna be two or three albums out of it. Now I may be wrong, but to me, that was one of the great ones. Janet Jackson's top coming. Well, what do you think that the thinking was? I did that with Rackel. That was how I got around HBO many many years before one of the one ofver straps we guaranteed would sort of fall off. It wasn't the

first time. Um, but no, I think it's being done. I think you know, this guy's like Scooter Braun, who are so brilliant, who just get it so good. You know, Arian the Grandes tragedy was one of the brilliant management things. How do you turn that horrible incident into a career builder and a win win for everybody? And that's what a great manager does. You take the failure in the horrible and you turn into something strong. And do you think the acts are grateful? I think for the most part, yeah,

I think for the most part. You know, they get reputations that really aren't deserved. And I think, um, if you're if if you're do an honest, good job. Um, you know you see guys like irving him with acts for thirty years, I'm scooed it will be with his actual life. Then never let him go. Um. I was with all my acts except for a couple forever. I think if they see that you really, you know, not just getting him a Coca Cola, But if they if they perceive that they need you, you're in a pretty

good shape. And then if you're happy to be, if your intentions are right and they feel they need you. You have the basis of a very strong relationship, and need is a big part of it. And the difference between the great managers, in my opinion, and and the managers who are just there are the ones where an artist perceives they need them. Yeah, yea are on a ground they could have been a disaster. It was a triumph. Um. So and so in terms of legacy, does that concern

you at all? And what are you gonna do with all that said? I made I say that, but I have an ego like everybody else. What are you gonna do with the money you have? Um? Probably spend it all my one. I don't have a lot of things that I I fear and one is it the I'm gonna have wine left in my cellar when I die. If we started tonight, you know, I don't get a lot. I know. I know a lot of people say the same thing. But if we started tonight, we couldn't work

our way all the way through. It's a problem. I'm gonna have to live, log down and other things personal irrelevant of business that you would like to do or achieve that you haven't done yet. Um. I always wanted to have a child in my own I have for adopted a little bit past the point if you met a woman of child bearing age at seventy two, would

you have a child? It was the right relationship. Absolutely, you know a lot of this, And if I'm shooting bullets, what statistics are that most of the birth defects come from older men, from men as opposed to with a

problem with that absolutely hesitatement. But you know, one of my heroes in life is normally and he had a child at eight, so as did what's his name, the close to a seventy eight the Broadway actor Tony whatever is, yeah, from the odd couple, And uh so, anything specifically you need to say before we wrap it up here, now, just what that's it's I live in and I'm really distant from the community that I grew up in the music community, and your stuff is fantastic because it keeps

me plugged in. So I am a huge fan that's so happy to be here. I actually just so everyone knows, I called him exactly. So you know, as I say, it's interesting because there's a lot of stuff that as they say, we have the movie and there's a lot of things I would have liked to have covered, but we have a limited amount of time. Blonde okay, Blondie and the videos. Who paid for those? Um, the record

company paid from Chrysalis was very supportive. Okay. So traditionally, as uh, someone whose name I won't mention, who ran one of these record companies said, the record major label model is theft. Okay, so there are certain Alan Klein being a good example, he would specialize on extracting money from the label. To what degree were you in your career? Hardass that way? Um, not my strongest thing, but I would try and get a lawyer involved who could really help,

because beating him up for creativity stuff they cost money. Yes, beating him up for the big check. I used to try and get a lawyer to do if I could continue my fight. Okay, there's so much to talk about, but that's the most we're gonna talk about today. Chef is so wonderful to have you here. Pleasure Okay, until next time, Chef Gordon on the Bob Left Sets podcast. That wraps up this week's episode of the Bob Left Sets podcast, recorded here at the tune In Studios in Venice, California.

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Chef Gordon about his roller coaster ride of a career and the music industry, film and cuisine has always I welcome your feedback. Email me at Bob at left sets dot com. Until next time, I'm Bob left Sets. Me reason, I don't know me exactly? Why must be its out of the season filling dry