Seymour Stein

the Ramons and David Bowie and the Talking Heads. It's really just incredible now having read your book, not that we need to advertise your book, but people should read your book. Sirens Song. You talk about Thanksgiving where Elton John is gonna play Madison Square Garden and John Lennon has scenes with him that night. How does everybody end up in your apartment? Well, Elton was staying with me.

I mean Elton got for a period of time, got disgusted with hotels because people were always you know, you know, attacking him. I don't mean in a bad way, but they wouldn't leave him alone. Um. I go way back with Elton and and and my my wife really went out of her way always to accommodate him and everything. And we had a big apartment right on Central Park West, and he stayed there several times. Um, and he actually

wrote some of his songs in that apartment. Yeah whatever, Oh, let me think, Um, I think maybe I'll think of it later. But and what I do remember is that my older daughter, who was about two years old then she heard the song, came pounding away at it so much that she uh wound up, you know, singing it at such a young age. It was. It was incredible.

But he stayed there many times. And he was staying there over Thanksgiving and he said, look, the boys, you know the band so the English you know, Richard Griffith's manager of One Direction, many other things. What he says In England they refer to the band as the Boys. Yeah, well he said, he said, the boys are very nervous about working with John Lennon. Tonight. He said, do you think we could come? They could come over to the house and uh, you know, just maybe have a Thanksgiving dinner.

And my wife's father was a Kosh caterer and uh he made the most fantastic, you know, turkey dinner for everybody. They watched the parade, they calmed down and you know then um Elton and I walked over to the Dakota, which was three blocks away on Central Park West, and John was living at made Panglin and then uh he came back to the house, and uh, you know it was it was a great thrill. I mean I had met him before. But okay, you meet John John Lennon,

Are you nervous around John Lennon? No? So what I mean by that is you can act normally, but are you somewhat star struck? This is this is the pinnacle of rock stardom. Well, I wouldn't be starved. I mean, look, they were stars, they were great, you know I I I was more star struck when I met Fats Domino. If you want to know the truth, when did you meet Fats? Uh? Several times in New Orleans? And uh, I took him to dinner, a lunch, a couple of

times at the Commander's Palace and things like that. Meeting little Richard, I mean, you know, little recent You're you're about at least ten years younger than day. So, um, you know you would you would relate more to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and stars. I spent a lot of time with the Rolling Stones. In fact, I was with them the night of the that first big blackout in New York with Andrew Oldham was still a very very dear friend. Did you ever interview him? He yeah,

I did. Oh he's a good friend. I went to fascinating Oh yeah, he's his wife is great, two great people. So um, I was with them the night of the We didn't know it was going to be a blackout, but it was. And uh, yes, exactly, and it was their first I think it was their first time over. So um. And uh, you know, um, Frankly I was more a rolling Stone guy than uh. That's how he's had the battle on w ABC every Saturday night. But but but you know, I think it's the people that

your star struck with when you're very young. And uh, I I wasn't all that I wasn't old, but I wasn't all that that young. To me. It was the rhythm and blues artists, and you know Hank Williams, who of course I never got to me. He was long gone before that. But those are those are the people studying with your point that I'm a decade younger than you. It seemed to me that the Beatles were really a

transformation explosion. With your perspective, do you just see them as another band in the continuum or do you see that as a turning point. Of course, there are many turning points. I mean, and they were. They were a big turning point. Okay, So let's go back to me. You're from Brooklyn, absolutely, Benjamin, and your father does what

for a living? He works in the garment center. He was in charge of the show room, you know, you know, the buyers would come up and uh look over the the you know, the items and decide what to order and how many and all of that. And so he would just show things, he would sell them to No. No, he I don't think he I don't think he sold. But no, he just he worked there. He was it was not okay, and he was not his company. And he was born where in the United States, on the

lower reast side. He grew up on a street called Sheriff Street. And his parents were from the Old Country, as we said, Yes, and my mother's parents were from the Old Country to um you know, and you know, okay, so they were first generations Americans. You're growing up. Uh. It seems like if you when read your book, that you're the prince. You're like the you know, the the star of the family. Hands off, you gotta treat you right. I see more sisters in the room, and she's a

little older and she's not a yes. Well you know, um, I my parents were quite strict, but they also, um you know, I think at a certain point they realized that was different, and uh they kind of let me have my way. I mean I think that's what. Yeah, So how would you characterize this difference. Well, look, I was born with a hole in my heart, and so I didn't play sports. Um, and I found other ways

to you know, occupy my you know, my time. I collected stamps, uh, actually collected bottle caps and all different kinds of things. But um, you know, but when I first heard music, and it's thanks to my sister because we had a two bedrooms small apartment, you know, and uh we shared a bedroom, which I'm sure was not easy for her. And uh but that's the first music I really heard was on her radio. Okay, this is in the fifties, no going back before that. Okay, so

this is before the era of transistor radios. Oh yeah, these were no way. Yes, So there's a big console radio it's not a big one, but you know, I would say, Okay, he's demonstrating something about you know, ten by five and so and so. What music were you hearing on the radio? Well? Uh, pop music for the most part. Uh. And every Saturday I would rush home from the synagogue to listen to Martin Block in the crystal studio of the Make Believe Ballroom. It's make Believe

Ballroom time, you know. And he would play the top pop hits and uh, you know I I would write them down. I mean, thank god my father didn't walk in the room with shabbis, but you know, and keep track of of of all of what was going on. And um, was this a solo pursuit? Were your parents playing records or in My parents didn't play that. Annie did. My sister did, but we had a phonograph and uh, she had records and uh, I mean and of course

later on I started buying records. This is but since you're such a passionate fan, do you remember the first record you bought? I think it might have been Uh, I can't say for sure. It might have been Shaboom by the Chords, you know, Um that I've got fifty four Um, and um, maybe I think earlier, I mean even even than that. Um, but I do remember, you know, I remember, you know, running to a record store and I wasn't supposed to run when I was walked. This

is my later This is nineteen fifties six. Um. I was walking down the street and uh dah road where I lived, and uh, I heard this song coming out of the wind window and you know, it sounded like Elvis Presley, Don't be cruel, you know, and I quoted it to the girl who lived up there. You know, her name was a Uh. You remember there was the first house, uh, after the six family houses. I said, what is that? What is it? Says that's the new Elvis Presley record. I said, no, it's not. The new

record is hound Dog? And he said no, this is the other side. And I had money in my pocket. The record store was about nine blocks away. It was actually a TV repair shop and they stuff sold some records in their drags TV and uh, I ran there and I got the last copy. Pretty astounding. I mean, that was ahm, It's definition of a hit. You're lying in bed listening to the radio at midnight and you gotta get up, take off your pajamas and run to the all night record store just to buy that record. No,

what's at midnight? I know, but you're living? I mean that was his you know aphorism. Yea. So at what point in your listening career do you say to yourself, I think this is my passion, this is what I want to do for a living, if at all? Well, uh, I think it happened quite by accident. Um. I I had the books, you know, starting with about nine fifty that I kept, and then I wanted to go backwards. So I went up to Billboard and uh, a little bit slower. You just you find Billboard? How from? You

look it up in the phone book? No, I Billboard. Martin Block was always talking about bill Board, he was that was where he was playing the music from. So I looked it up. They were in the Palace Theater building and I went up there a seventh floor and I said, look, is there any way I can get access to the old charts there? So um, he said, well, I'll ask the chart at it to come out, you know. And that was tom Noon in a fabulous person. I knew Tommy. I never realized he went back that far

reading your book it kind of started me. But and he made a space for me, gave me a desk, and he kept bringing out the bound volumes. There was you know, I had to write it all down. There was no way of So your goal in doing this was what going you know, going back in time, you know, so that I'd know more about the past. But what if you could write them down, but you couldn't necessarily hear them. It's not like but but you know, no,

I couldn't necessarily hear them. But some of those some of the songs were familiar to me by then, you know. And uh, but the main thing that what happened was it brought me into the heart of the music district. All the indies were very much around that area. Three of the majors were close by. So for those who were not around then, the legend is the Brill Building. Yes, close by, close by, but the Brill Building was more for publishers. But there were a few record companies in there.

It's a misnoma. But sixteen fifty was all a lot of little record companies and yeah, and uh yeah, sixteen fifty Broadway and then I mean King Records had a place on fifty four Street, and you know, high Wise with old Town Records and the old old you know, the smaller labels where their Jubilee was a great little label and they were all, you know, within that vicinity. And I realized, you know what am I gone ackwards for? I should be going forward? And Billboard Paul Ackerman was

so nice to meet. Paul Ackman was the editor music editor for forty years. And you also in your books say that he was a mention an educated guy. Oh, he was very much an educated guy. But he loved music, and you know, he's he was the first journalist to be inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. There are only two jan when as the other and you know, but Paul, Paul was very nice to me.

And he used to say, look, uh, somebody specialist coming to our review session tonight and now a Billboard review back then before you go there. So the first day you go and you meet Tommy noon in and usual desk.

How frequently are you going to Billboard? If this as as frequently as he could that twice a week, you know, and uh, you know, and uh, you know, and one time or twice he said, you know, if you're not doing anything over the weekend, I can get you access to it so you can spend the whole day here. And uh I did that as well. This was after I got to know him. I whether I know where the bound volumes were, I would pick them out myself, you know. I mean, uh, you know, Billboard goes back

to the eighteen hundreds. I mean, but they didn't have Jog. I didn't go back that fall. But you know, but a Billboard review, a favorable review, a spotlight, could mean as many as seventy five thousand records being sold by a new artist, you know. I mean if it was not Cole or Sinatra or Patty Page or you know, somebody like that, Um, you know they would but they know what to buy. But if there was a new record by a new artist, uh, they looked at a

Billboard review. And the you know, the charts was so slow in those days that you know, the droukebox operators would buy upwards of seventy five thousand records based on a Billboard a really strong Billboard review. And that's why all the indies went up there, you know, and prayed they could get, you know, a review. And that's how I met, said Nathan, that's how I met Lennon Chess. Uh. Uh and many many other of the are you telling a story? And I was interrupting you and you said, uh,

either Tommy or Paul invited you to review meeting. Oh he not to review. No, they invited me to attend and give comments, you know as well. And that's where and the uh that was done on a Wednesday night. Uh and uh. Billboard had do bills at hotels because they put in free advertising and got rooms and so I actually, you know, I would go to school Thursday morning from New York. You know, I'm take the West End to Lafayette, the West End line, so um, it

was fabulous. And my parents, you know, by that time, you know, they either they washed their hands with me or that you know, they saw that there was no minimum college for you. Well, no, they they they wanted me to go to college. And I didn't give up on college until the very very end. I mean, I

mean right after I graduated high school. I even investigated going to school for journalism, and then Billboard offered me a full time job and I said, look, I can learn more here, you know, And I became Tom's assistant with the charts and Paul, let me do a few reviews of shows and uh, you know, but you must have been thrilled. Thrilled us, Oh, thrilled, isn't the word beyond? Okay? So then ultimately a turning point your story as you meet Sid Nathan. Yes, I met him at one of

those billboard review sessions. Okay. So they would let record owners come in and picture the records. Yes, of course, you know, and I mean sometimes they were influenced by that. I think, I don't know. I think in the end it was really the record and I mean I think most of them, you know, uh, you know, brought really what they really really believed and because they didn't want to, uh you know, waste billboards time. So how do you

ultimately established relationship with Sid? Well, he invited everyone out for dinner after the session, and you know, I was invited along and we started talking and you know, and he said, look, you know, do you have many of my records? I said, I have a few of them, King records. He said, well, you know, come by my my office, you know, when you can, and I'll give you whatever you want, you know, And I did, And

that's how it all started. And then um, I kept seeing him when he came to New York and uh, then he invited me out to stay with his family in Cincinnati, and he said, you'll really learn the music business if you if you come out here, and believe me, I did. I mean it was okay. So for those people don't know, give us a little bit of a make on sid Nathan Well King Records, Uh was based in Cincinnati. He started it, and uh, it was one

of the biggest rhythm and blues companies. I would put it up there with certainly with Atlanta, you know, Atlantic and Chess. I would say was one of the three most important R and B companies. But also they had a very strong country roster and they were the biggest indie in country music at the time. Star Day started a few years later, and uh, you know, but King was always bigger than So you go to Cincinnati. I mean, most New Yorkers after they've been in New York really

can't live anywhere else. So what's it like going to Cincinnati. It was very interesting, actually, Um, I mean I stayed in this house and um, you know, I learned so much those two I did it for two summers, and uh, I learned so much. They weren't It wasn't a whole summer. Was about three weeks each time. And I mean he had me doing everything in the factory, including pressing records, which scared me to death. Um and uh playing. I spent a lot of time in the studio, which I loved.

They had a first class studio with an incredible engineer and so um and they had great a and Almond, I mean one of the greatest of all, Henry Glover and uh, but many other Sonny Thompson and people like that. But um, it was it was like being in heaven. You know, who owns the king Assets today? Oh God, I'm not sure. It's passed through so many maybe Universal I I don't know. I hope they're using them properly whoever owns them. But at least they're available for people

to listen to online. Yeah, so okay, So you do that for a couple of summers, and then what's your next thought. Well, then I was graduating, you know, high school, and decided to get to take a full time position at Billboard, which I did for about two and a half years. And Sid said to me, look, he said, do you want to be on the sidelines and stay at Billboard or do you want to be a player. You should be a player, he said, I'll give you a job out here in Cincinnati. I'll help you find

an apartment. Until you can find an apartment. You know, you can stay with with us, and you know, and so I came out to Cincinnati, and that, you know, was great. I mean everything. I mean that I just lucked out with everything. You know, Well, you know, what's the cliche. You make your own luck. So they must have seen something in you, Yes, I guess, And there's an opportunity. So you work for sid and how do you move on from there? Well, her baby, I don't know if that name is. I know that is one

of the original founders of Atlantic Records. He was the original founder and uh, you know, I'm it learned a lot from him. But it was a dentist right, yes, yes, And you don't want to go there, but I gotta go there now, perhaps to cease the long times. What does that mean? He used to write prescriptions for himself for cocaine. We'll take a quick break and come back with more of my conversation with Seymour Stein. I love getting together with music industry legends like seymour and hearing

the history of their careers in the business. I love getting to the heart of someone's story, whether the famous performer or manager, or record label executive or you. This week, seymour Stein tells us about his journey to the top of the record business. Previously, if we talked with artists

like Cascade Moby and Shirley Manson of Garbage. Whether you come for the music, or you come for the business, or you come for the personal be the first to hear next week's episode by subscribing to the podcast on tune in Apple wherever you listen to your podcast. While you're there, Please be sure to rate and review. Okay, let's get back to my conversation with seymour Stein. Well, the legend is that Herb gave m At the money to start Atlantic. Is that true? I don't know. I

would I wouldn't. I wouldn't think that Ahmed had some money. Am came from Ahmed and his brother necessary Um had money because their father was quite wealthy. Their father was second to at a turk in Turkey, and he when when they dissolved the Ottoman Empire, and you know, he sent Ahmed's father first to be the ambassad at all, the Turkish ambassador in the Netherlands, then France, then England.

And when it all happened for Amaan Nessuay, he was when they sent them to be the American ambassador, and they discovered jazz and rhythm and blues and it blew their minds. And I would imagine there was there was money in the Errigan family. I mean, I don't know, um and but Herb, to be fair, was a much

more accomplished, uh in the music business. I mean he had had, you know, a success at other labels and uh, you know, but I I know nothing about that, but I know that, you know, it was in the beginning. It was herban on it, you know. And so anyway, her now, by the time I met Herb, he was way down on his luck. He had a little label and you know, SID Distribute was distributing labels at that point. He was very early into that. Just to be clear,

the CID is totally vertically integrated. He finds the acts, he signs the acts, he produces them. He has his own distributors. He had he had more distributed distribution locations than the majors. At one point there were twenty two all over the United States. And uh, a lot of these were one man operations, you know, like in a small city. You know, like a small city. But it was the guy would open, you know, get the orders phone.

He would uh then pack them up and have them picked up whatever whoever the delivery people went back then. Um and in his spare time, you know, he would drive out and see all the local radio stations and do promotion as well. And one of one of the one of the most important guys, Bob kras Now was the head of the San Francisco branch. That's the way he got his start. Yes, well, Bob Krausing out another legend out and all over with us. He had Blue

Thumb Records. He ultimately ran electorate, totally wiped out the roster and they had something in every genre and all that hit really pretty incredible. But um was the driver? Radio? What was the driver? You know? You could ship these records. Why were people buying them? Oh? I guess it was mostly radio. I mean, certainly for a new record, a

new artist, it was radio. Um, I guess the more established artists, you know, people um, you know, would would if they were fans, they would wait, you know, for

the record. Well, since you mentioned earlier, the jukeboxes very important, very very important, and you know, um because you know, in like the black African American markets, you know, late neighborhoods, they would be packed with great rhythm and blues songs, you know, in in places where there were country fans, they'd be you know, packed with records by you know, Farren Young and Webb Pierce and Hank Williams and Kitty

Wells and people like that. And so a lot of records were sold off of droop boxes and you know, but radio I think was was the main stay. You know. So anyway you meet her, he's done on his luck. Well I had met him before, I know, I knew her, I mean, and I admired him. He had the record company. He said, uh, he said, why don't you come back to New York and work for me? And he kept calling, you know, and I was, you know, Cincinnati, it's it's not a bad city. It's beautiful city, really, I mean

in an important city. It was at one time the eighth largest city in America. Beautiful in the Ohio River and all that, but I'm in New Yorker, so I told I said, I said, look, Herbs offered me a job. Um, and I think I'm gonna take it. He said, seem when you're making a big mistake. He said, you'll be out of work in six months, he said, Herb does. He said, I'm doing a Herber favor. I'm really surprised he would talk to you like this. But he said, if you want to get back to New York, you know,

do it. You'll be out of a job in six months. Well, Sid was wrong. I was out of work in three months, so you know, but you know, but luckily not too much long later, I got a call from George Goldener, who um I knew, and he was recommended to him by his lawyer, Warren Troupe, and I was quite friendly with his son, Ted, And he said, you know, Warren thinks you'd be a great assistant for me. He said, I'm I'm just starting up a label with Lieber and

stole a called Redbird Records. And I got the job there, and I learned so much from George, you know, and but you know, and then Redbird didn't last very long, but it was in the Brill Building, and I met everybody. Our office was next to Bobby Darren's office with you know, his publishing company, and uh a flora above we were on nine floor was ft G Productions, and that's where I met Richard Gottarett and we became I became friends with his two with all of them Feldman Goldstein and

got her up. But they were having problems, not problems. They were thinking about going their own way. They already had their hit, They had all their hits that all their hits, you know, hang on sloopy, Uh, my boyfriend's back, um, you know, and um, you know, but all of it so um, but all the hits that they had together,

that is. But then at the same time, Um, George and and Jerry Lieber in particular, we're not getting along, you know, you know, you know, George liked to have mafia people around him, the same way Bert Burns did, you know, And but not to the extent of bird Burns. But this really upset Jerry, and I think Mike too. But Mike was a lot more you know, placid and read the end of Redbud. I could see the end

of Red Bird coming, and Richard asked me. You know, he said, look, he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna be splitting up my partners, he said, he said, you've got great ears. He said, I'm a great producer. He said, why don't we, uh, why don't we get together and start,

you know, a production company. And by that time, tom Noonan was working at some at CBS, and he had his own label Date and he gave us a deal which gave us a good enough advance, uh to get started, plus all the free studio time and that we needed and and all of that. And Sid Nathan was closing down his New York office and and rented me. He owned the building. It was a Brownstone, and he rented me the the main floor for two hundred and thirty

five dollars a month um. And I immediately rented the biggest room to the Rifkin brothers because Richard was still involved with the They managed a lot of the bands that Richard had had produced, you know, the McCoy's and and also the Strange Lads when they went on tour. So it what Strange Lads was got gotta right, yeah, felt there were the three of them. But yeah, so um, you know that's that's how SIA started, and you know, progressed as it went along. You know. Okay, how long

after it starts do you have your first hit? First first income? Never mind hit? Were year when year to sires start? Um as a record company, we started about a year and a half later. And before you were what a publishing company? Production? Now we we're production company. And the records came out. Um you know so I mean though that you're saying, that's with your deal with doing it? Yes, now that that was with Date Records

at CBS. We signed some really good artists, you know. Um. Uh, my friend Pete Bennett, the legendary promotion man, I'm sure you heard of him. He's a dear, dear friend. He said, I got somebody that's just right for your label, and he brought him down to me. And his name was Steven Tallarico. And I happen to know because when my newsletter used to be in print, he used his real name. That's all I knew who he was. Okay, so I signed him. We put out a record. Uh he wrote

the song so Tellarico. The only place that made any noise was Italy and uh so it was called the son. And so his father comes to my office and says, uh, I want the contract back. I said, look, we're gonna go in the studio. Richard's going to make another record with him. He said, I want to contract back, and he took out a gun and and so I said,

we'll put that away. Come on, So rich said to me, look, he said, I know from my days A bang he said, Because you know that, he said, give him the contract back, and which is what I did. But we had some good audits. Okay for those says we haven't revealed revealed who Steven Tallarico is. Oh well, Steven Tyler. Steven Steve Tallarico is Steven Tyler, and uh okay, So when you had him, was he doing the same act what ultimately it was in narrow Smith. It's going to listen to

your record. Did it like Errol Smith? No? But it was a great song. I mean it really was. I mean, it comes once a day through the shade of my window. It da da da da da da. He was. Look, you don't think he just became talented when he started Arrowsmith. He was always talented. It was a great song. But uh, you know, I don't think they paid that much attention

to it, that's all. But then we started Sire Records, and uh we got our first distribution deal was through London Records, British Decker's own company, and so we had a little bit of success there. Nothing nothing great, I mean, but you're paying the bills. We're managing to stay keep our heads above water. Yeah we are. We weren't. We weren't taking much salary for ourselves and we're getting by and uh so, um, you know, I was very well looked after when I worked for George I must I

must say that. So I had some money. Richard had a lot of a lot of money, you know, and and all that. But um, you know, we we got by, you know, and then I decided, look, I want to I want to go. I skipped apart when I was

when I was working at King uh Lenwood LG. Wood would come over to uh C SID every summer, and Lenwood was the managing director and later chairman of E. M I Records, the biggest record company in the world then and the only really truly global company at the time, especially since they after they bought capital in nineteen fifty two.

So so lenn Is normally operating out of London. Oh, they're definitely so, because he would come in the summer to visit the companies that he had the licensees for outside of America, and King was one of the biggest ones he had, and he I think he gotta get of sit anyway, he was that part of the character said so, um, you know, and Sid had me in the room when I was talking to him, and he took you know, he must have saw something in me too. He said to me, Look, he said, uh, you really

you know, know your stuff. And he said, look, you know, one day you're going to start your own company. I really believe that, and I want you to be. I want E M. I to be the first company you come to and see. Uh and I you know, And what was in back in my mind was, oh my god, if I started label. You know, Capital rejected the Beatles not once, but twice. They were first on VJ and then VJ. The BJ would have had him for six years except they you know, didn't they didn't pay any royalties.

So um then uh, then they rejected she loves you. Can you believe that? So? And you love that? What came out on I'll tell you how that happened that He was never my lawyer, but he was my best one of my best friends. Paul Marshall was a genius lawyer and he represented E. M. I. And he said, look, he said, I'll get capital to take the Beatles up. He said, but you're gonna have to go with me. I'm gonna give this record to Swan. Dick Clark owns the label. I don't know if you knew that, I didn't,

well you know it now. He owned he owned a piece of every label. You know. Alan Freed almost went to jail, but Dick Clark was you know, it was the one that really you know, the payola king and you can you can really, I mean he owned a piece of just about every label in Philadelphia. But Swan he owned himself. Had this guy Tony Mammarella run it for him. He said, look, I'll give it to I'll give it to Swan at a very low royalty and no renewals. He said. He said, Dick Clark will break

this record and he did. And uh so. At the same time, Um, the Beatles had the top three hits on the Billboard. Trot Rotating Because She Loves You came back, um and uh, please please me came back and all of them so um, you know, and that was you know, and then Capital of course picked it up. But I figured if they could, you know, not put out the Beatles,

what what other gems would they leave behind? That's where I signed the Climax Blues Band, Renaissance, Barcley, James Harvest, uh, Kevin Airs and many many other things for little or no advance. LG was wonderful to me. Um, you know, an interesting story I did. I kept my word that he would be the first person I saw, and uh he sent someone to meet me at the airport and I could hardly understand what he was saying. He had such a thick Scottish acts and he looked like he

was about twelve years old. He was actually about seventeen. And he says, I said, uh, he said, I'm here to meet you. He said, I said, well, where's the cars? His car car? I could I drive? You know? And all that. It was John Reid, you know, who later became Melton's uh you know many things, and his manager and you know, so you know, and uh, that's how I first met John Reed and threw him Elton John and that's how I met Elton. So um. But anyway, uh that all those licensed records from E M I

helped us a bit. And then the greatest thing happened was when I was putting out so many English records by em from E M I, all the other companies, the Dutch, the French, you know, the Spanish, they all started sending me my product. And I heard this record by a guitar player, jan Akaman, and I immediately fell in love with it. He had a rendition of Ode to Billy Joe, which was so fantastic instrumental. I called

the guy up. I said, look, you know, uh, we don't put out you know, we don't pay big advances, but I'd really like to pick up this jan Akaman. He said, yann com in. You don't have to pay any advance, he said, he said, he just left us. He said, he's he's free, he's a free agent. Now you can have the record for nothing. He said, I said, really, where did he go? He said he went back to his old man Focus. So I said Focus. I said, um, well,

where were they? He said, oh, they got a job playing, uh for the Dutch production of Have I got on a plane, I met them, I signed them, and that was that was really that's what put us. When you were the main label, you didn't license the record from anybody else. I licensed it but for the whole world

excluding Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg. That the guy that had them under contract mostly as a publisher but also records was a guy named Hubert to Hagen who in Radio tell A Luxembourg Um and the publishing side of it, which was Radio Luxembourg which is a big you know radio station, and you know, so um I paid I don't even want to I don't even want to say the amount. Okay, but the record, that record, did that record have hocus focus on it? No, it was the

next record that had I'll tell you. I'll tell you the story of that too. So the way we get the first record? Can you do anything with the first record? It did a little, It did a little, you know, it did you know moderately, well maybe thirty forty thousand it did. Um Telling those what was motivating people to buy I don't I don't know. I think because they will get they were getting some information, you know, and hearing it from the English were playing it and uh,

so I think that's how it happened. Maybe last I don't. I don't remember. It was nothing spectacular, but you know about uh about a year before this, or when I very first signed Focus, Uh, you know, I had another label which I still owned, called Blue Horizon Records. At one point I saw around half of it, but then they just seen as a jazz label, was a blues label. Excuse me, I think they were. Mike Ernan one of

the greatest producers ever. He produced the first David Bowie record, you know, under his real real name, you know, and um, he was a producer at Decca, and they let him have his own label, Blue Horizon, and you know, he put Fleetwood Mac together and they had the early Fleetwood Mac records which which are on still on Blue Horizon and Chicken Shack, which is where Christine Perfect came from, now Christine McVie. And so he says to me, look,

this is we're in business. He said, Seymour, I wish you'd do me a big favor and come to the winds of Popping jazz festival with me. He says, it's not popping, it's not jazz, it's you know, rock stuff. And he said, I just, you know, come with me. I'm bringing my I'm bringing my engineer, Gus Studgeon, who later became Gus Dudgeon, Elton's producer. He was an engineer at Deck still the best Elton records. Yes, oh yes,

Gus was great. Unfortunately he died in the car Creuse driving home from Melton's house with his wife, who worked for Decca. I knew how to, you know, but very very sad, good, very good people. So I go there and you know, the music was all right, and then this band come on and they blew mama, you know,

and they I loved them so much. I couldn't wait till they got finished because I looked them up and they were managed by, uh, you know the Chrystalist guys before the Chrystmas label, Uh you know Exist and Chris Right. And I said, this band, they're managed by Chris and Terry and you produced Savoy Brown and ten years after for them, they were managing them. I said, we ought to grab this record for the Blue Horizon. He said, oh see, Moore, I would never work with the flout Ist.

So I didn't know. I didn't know what the flowerst meant, you know, we call him flut players, I mean. And I didn't want to show my ignorance, you know, so I thought it was who knew what the floutst was, you know? And so I turned to gust Duddon and he I said, Gus, you'll be the you'd be the engineer here, which he said, see more. And this really hurts nothing. Michael could say whatever hurt me because he's just to me, Seymour, You don't play an instrument, do you?

I said, no, what what does that have to do with that I got to use? He said, if you played an instrument, you would have heard all the bad notes this band hit. He said, I couldn't wait till they finished, So I kept pushing him, pushing him to sign it, you know, and uh, you know, and and they didn't, you know, and you know who was so and uh, I even have a letter when Mike finally I gave up on him. I have a letter from

Chris Terry and I've saved where he wrote me. He said, Seymour, we we couldn't get anybody to sign him, so we started the crystalist labor. And I wished him good luck and everything and all of that, and uh, and all of that. But now fast forward a year. I said, Tim, Mike, I said, Mike, I don't care if you like flautist or not. You're gonna produce this record. And it was

one of the most successful records Mike ever produced. You know, I'm moving waves by focus and uh, you know Mike is happily retired and living in Spain and growing olives and things and okay, so how do you how it's all the story of hocus Pocus? Pardon tell us the story of hocus Pocus. Well, it was on the album, you know, and it was delivered to you you no, no, no, no, Mike, No. I think I heard it because I kept going back

and forth. You know, I heard it when I was in England when they were making it, and I liked it very much. I said this, this, this is great. And there were a couple of other tracks on there that I must admit I like, you know very much too. So, um, this was a big breakthrough. Mike was great produce. I mean, you know, I mean, and and patient he was so I mean, really to work with John Mayle, uh, no disrespect, you had to be very patient. But you know, Mike

could produce anything. I mean, you know, and uh, but I knew there was something there and you know, and sure enough there was. Well how did you make that a hit? Well, um, that's another story if you want to hear it. I had a trouble getting it released. By this time, we had moved over to a Pollador for our distribution, and the the guy there was Jerry Shawmbaum, who was one of the greatest music guys in the world. I mean, I wouldn't say a bad worried about him.

And he was putting out all these records we were making, and he kept sliding the focus record, you know, putting it back. I said, listen, this is the best record I got. You gotta stop this. It's already starting to happen in England and he should seem more I'm not putting the record out. He said, you know, Uh, there's this there's these people at paler Or. There's this guy Freddie High and he keeps pressing me to put out

all of his Dutch records, he said. And I said, he's got some great records too, you know, I said you should put them out also. He should seem what do you want to release? I said, yes, and he gave me a release, and I went to Tony Martel and who was running Paramount, and and you know the he got really behind the record, great man, and uh you know the record took off, you know, and very very fortunate. Okay, so that's your first big success. You

make a lot? Okay, what's that seventy three? Oh no, no, I think, oh god. Right, you're listening to my conversation with the legendary record executive Seymour Stunt. I hope you're enjoying this episode of the Bob Left Sets Podcast. If you want to see videos, photos, and soundbites from Seymour and our other guests, visit at tune in on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Now we're my conversation with Seymour Stein on

the Bob Left Sets Podcast. Okay, so now this new scene starts to version in New York City, the New Waves scene. So how do you get How does that get your attention? How did it not get my attention? I mean I live in New York. Okay, let's stop for a second. You live through all these generations of music. Yes, the cliche is that people like the music that they grew up within their taste. Stop now, I'm at famously said at some point, you won't get it anymore in

this piece, right, it's this particular point in time. Do you continue to like this music or you see it as a business opportunity. Oh? No, if I didn't like something, I wouldn't sign it. I don't, you know. Um. The thing is, I was overdroid. New York when I was a kid was ground zero. Then you have Motown Detroit, Then you have um, you know, l A becoming really really hot, um, Memphis, you know, and and all these other places, and then the final blow the Beatles and

all the English stuff. So New York was quite diminished by all of that. No, I was very very pleased to see New York being back, you know, in the groove. Okay, let's just jump all the way forward today in terms of today's hit music, chart music. Since you just said at some point you don't get it? Do you get today's hit music? Uh? To be honest, not as much. You know, I you know, I can. I can still

hear a great band, you know. Um, but you know I feel that, you know, I don't think I'm quite you know, as as as up on things as as I was back then. To be perfectly honest. But if I played you the Top fifty, which were great degree as hip hop influenced? Or is hip hop Drake and Kanye Uh, I like some of it very much, but it's you know, and I was. I was the first person at one Is to get into rap music. I signed the Ice T and uh that's an interesting story too.

But um, but I'm not that up on it, you know, And I think that you know, there are so many other labels that are so good at it that you know, why would they come to me? Okay, let's go also to the other side of the fence. If you are an act, what are you looking for when you do sign an act? This is where your whole career as opposed to songs. Yes, so to what degree is it important to person to be able to perform them live? Uh? Eventually it's very important. I mean, but some of these bands.

Look the bands that I have signed over the years. Know, I very seldom signed a band that was established. Yes, I made I brought lou Reid back, you know, I made records with Jerry Lee Lewis and things like that. But um, you know, but the thing is that most of my artists, you know, all the overwhelming you know with brand new bands and brand new artists and um you know uh so, I mean it's what I listened

to with the songs. Um, musicianship can always improve. I mean in some cases the musicianship at the beginning was excellent, like with the Smiths Wow. Uh. Like with the Pretenders wow you know uh with the Peesh Mode it was I wouldn't go wow wow wow. But it was so much better than all the other English bands at that time that you know I had looked at. I mean, these these were you know that there were so much better.

But the song is is the most. Do you think your ability to pick hits is based on an innate ability or experience? I never thought about it. I mean it's just I think I have a good year for songs. That's what my ear is good for, you know, of course. I mean when I heard Johnny Marr play I'm not you know, I'm not deaf. I mean I knew. I said, what an exceptional guitar player he is. You know, I went there to see them and that's when I signed them.

I said, you know, you know, because Jeff Travis was talking about how great you know, the band was and uh, but you know, mostly about Marriscy, Marriscy, Marriscy. And I said to him, look, there are two superstars in this band, and we're lucky, very lucky. But you know, I can recognize it. But what I look for is the material, the songs. So in the since you've signed so many acts from Square one to sign them, have you had

to compete with other labels? Very rarely? I mean, because I get in so early, you know, and uh, I couldn't compete. I never had the money, you know to compete, even even during most of my days at one is okay. So now this is a scene that's happening in New York famously at cb GBS. You're saying, how could you not know? But so everyone in the business knew that because at first the scene was ignored. Well, um, yeah, people had a bad impression of the ballery, you know.

I mean, yes, there are bums there, uh, sleeping in the street. But they're sleeping in the street. You know, it's not a dangerous area. But people didn't like to go down to the barery. Now the houses there, you know, in the hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars, you know. But the thing is, you know, it didn't keep me away, and uh, it didn't keep Danny Fields away. It didn't you know, it didn't keep a lot of people away. But okay, so you see the remotes, you immediately say, okay,

this is a band I want to sign. Oh well, I didn't see them at CBS. I was sick and I couldn't go. Linda went my wife with Danny Fields, and Fields working for you. No, no, Danny Fields never worked for me. But he became the manager with Linda of the Mounds. But Linda came back raving. I was still sick. It. I bundled up and you know, rented a rehearsal studio where they played you know, maybe eighteen songs and I say jokingly, eighteen songs in twenty two minutes.

But it wasn't quite like that. But I was. I fell in love with them even, you know, And so you said, I did the deal right there. They were in the studio a few days later, and you know the genius was Tommy. I wouldn't. I think they all contributed, But whose vision was it? Because it was so different from what was going on? Well, um, I think the driving force was Johnny. Um. I think that Joey's voice was amazing. Um, Deedy was also a good songwriter too,

you know. But Tommy was it was actually the original manager and part of the band. He he was the one mostly to do business with, although Johnny was very smart too. I mean, I'm not trying to say the other on swat but uh, but when it came to business, you know, it was Tommy and Johnny and these were very low sums involved. Were you paid them? And how much time it took to record the record? Yes, and the record comes out and people this is like springtime

for Hitler. They don't know whether it's a joke that's in America. Yes. But when I brought them over to England, you know, um, it was instrumental in getting other bands to to go pro you know. So um but I mean that that's how important it was on the continent as well. In Brazil and and and Argentina. They did very very well. They were playing big, big clubs and big theaters in England and they had to come back

to you know, playing these dingy little clubs. It it was heartbreaking for me and it must have been even worse for them. Well, yeah, I just remember I thought it was sort of a joke, and then I bought the third album, Rocket to Russia with Rockaway Beach. I said, this is genius. But but you see that when the sex Pistols and uh the you know, uh um what the Clash saw them, that's when they decided to go. So it's like the Velvet Underground. Everybody heard them. They

didn't sell, but other people were influences. I don't know, great, you know, right, So it's ironic because they really never broke through until everybody was dead. It's it's very sad. But but walked down the street of a busy city you see more Ramos T shirts than anything else, you know. I mean, and you know, so were you still involved with and they were when they worked with Phil Specter. Of course it was I put the whole thing together. So Geniu's idea, the result, Yes, the result was not.

I think that was the end of the century, I believe. Well, the thing is that Johnny was very much against working with Phil Specter, and but Joey wanted it. It was a lifetime ambition for him, and I got it to

work as best I could. You know and you know so um you know, and uh, just just to make sure I had a week before they came over, I had the Pailey brothers go in with with Phil just to make sure that Hill was you know, under control, and he made ut a couple of tracks with them, and you know, I I think that you didn't like that record. I think as I say, my favorite is the third and then the fourth. Road to Ruin is my second favorite. And it became something where I bought

all those records. But this is a funny business. I mean business changed again now where if you don't have a hit by a certain point, it looks like you're never gonna have a hit. So one always looks to Phil spec Your one always listens to a Phil Spectra record, but to be the one he did with Leonard Cohen or the you know, the one he did the Ramons.

But once again, it seemed at a commercial aspect, somewhat like a failed experiment, like this would be the thing to break them through, and it didn't break them through. So it's less about the record itself than the commercial potential. Well you can't play that on Phil Spectr, No, I can't. You can't blame it on the ramon. No, but I ask ask you do you think Phil was still still had his chops at that point? Um? Uh, you know, I I think phils are you know, I really call

people geniuses. I think Phil Specter is a genius. Um and you know it. I knew him very early on when he you know, I met him very very early on when he had a little tiny office in an apartment building. And uh, I remained pretty close with him. I'm sorry the way he's ended up. And but you know, Phil Specter, liebern Stola, you know that, you know, and some of the R and B producers that they're the greatest producers you know ever in my eyes, you know.

So how do you sign the talking heads? Well, um, I come home from England, exhausted, Linda's managing them, and uh, I'm in the house five or ten minutes the phone rings, but Linda's managing the remons, talking the ramones, and I get a call from Johnny. So we got some new material. You know, we want you to hear it, you know. So I said, look, I said, you know, I just got home and uh it was a Sunday, I remember, clearly, I said, look, give me Monday to catch up and Tuesday,

come in any time you want and not played. He said, oh no, we want you to hear it live, and we know you're not doing anything Wednesday, so we booked ourselves into CBGBs. I said, great, I'll come down and see you. So immediately I called to check to find out who was the opening act. It was the Shirts, and wow, that brings it back. Well, I didn't want to see them because I liked them, but not enough

to sign them. Ultimately, I believe in Capital and the lead singer ended up being in the production of here, and that's the last I've heard. Well, that wasn't the reason I didn't, but Hilly was managing them, and I love Hilly and I didn't want to disappoint him by turning the Crystal who own CBGBs, and I didn't. I didn't want to yet have to turn them down again. So it was mid November. I get there early and

very early. Lenny k is outside, great guy, and We're standing there waiting for the first band to go on, and I'm expecting the Shirts to go on, and I hear when my love stands next to you, all up, I said, and actually I'm not exaggerating. The music was so hypnotic. It was sucking me into the room and Lenny was following me, and I said, Lenny, this isn't the Shirts. What's going on here? He says, no, this is the Talking Heads Hill. He got the shirts a

paying drop in Brooklyn, he said. And when I got in there, I was mesmerized just through it was just three piece. Then, oh god, it was. It took my breath away. It was so incredible, one of the greatest experiences of my life. When they were over, I tried, they had no crew or nothing. I tried to help Tina down, you know, with you know, and David comes over to me. He said, we know who you are, you know like and he hands me a card. He says, this is a loft if you want to come and

see us some time tomorrow. And boy did I want to see them. And I went over there and I offered them a deal. And you know, they were busy with video, you know, and they were busy going back and forth to Providence, you know, where they had gone to school and other things. And I there were seven major labels at the time, and I was sure somebody would offer them something and they would just blow me

out of the of contention. Eleven and a half months later, on November one, I signed them, And what what sleepless nights I had? I'm you know, I don't I don't know how Linda put up with me during that talk. You know, I was, you know, biting my nails and everything. I loved the Talking Heads so much, and uh, you know all of them, you know, I mean David that, you know, Chris and Tina, I mean Jerry, mean just who joined? But what a great band? Do you finally

close them? After eleve and a half months, Oh, they called me, they said, we're ready to sign. So the first record comes out, Talking at seventy seven, gets a lot of press, scot Psycho Killer doesn't really hit. Then they change production teams. Can you tell us about that? Uh? God, well, they always had choice of their producers, you know, right, But if this was before you know, I don't believe

it had a success as a producer before he did. There, David got to know you know, very well, and you know so um and did fit the budget, you know, and uh, you know, it was a little more than a usual sigh record at that time. But I believed so much in them, and uh, you know, I let it rip, you know, and you can you tell us the story how they did take Me to the River, which really was the breakthrough track on that album. Well, I wasn't there when they did, okay, so that was

their choice. Oh yes, And when you heard the record, you go, I loved I loved the song before, you know, and they told me they were going to do it, and I I thought it was a great song to do. But if they had picked something else, unless I thought it was, you know, really terrible, I might have said something. No, take Me to the River is a great song. And they did a great job. So there are any other bands that you tried to get from that? Erather? You

couldn't sig him? Yeah? That was some Did they succeed that? What did they ultimately succeed with other people? Um? Well, one man, I really liked a lot at from that period. I just will talk about that period. I really like television. But you know, I don't think Tom Valane and I hit it off and you know that that well, but you know, uh, and you know he signed to Electra and you know, I was hoping it would be a

big success. Karen Berg brought them in, who was a great a and all women and you know, so um, but it really didn't happen that it didn't. I I love television, you know. First albums, second album not as good as one track I like. But then the band broke up. Okay, meanwhile, you're flying to England and your signing acts. Yes, so what acts are you signing at this time? The Cure, the Cult, Depeche Mode, um, you know, um, the Smiths eventually, um, you know, lots lots and lots

of games. So the bands that have UK deals and the American rights are up for ground. Yes in some cases. Now would that go when the money men? I was able to get them for the world and uh I um, but I had a little trouble signing them. But in the end I got Rob Dickens to start a label. This was Warner wouldn't give you any more money. Yeah, but he said, look, your your your your your money. You're not do any more signing money for the next three or four months. You'll have to wait. I said, wait,

they'll be gone. They could be gone tomorrow. They're that good. So I, you know, I went home. I was really sad. And the brightest star at Warner Brothers in those days was Rob Dickens, but he wasn't in the record side of things, but he had the best ear is he unbelieved bo I said, Rob, I want you to listen to this band I want to sign and he loved them as much as I did. I had some music of theirs. He said, I think you should sign him.

I said, look, why don't we do it together. I'll tell you the truth, you know, I said, one is uh, I don't want to give me any money for a few months. I said, why don't we start a label. He said, oh, that would be fabulous, and he said, I'd love to do it with you. I said, I always thought you you know, you're a great publisher, but I think you'd be an even greater record man. Basically just looking for the money. Why don't you're really just looking? No,

I was looking to look, you know. By this time, I was doing it pretty much all myself. And I mean I recognized Robert as being an extraordinary talent, incredible. His whole family. His brother is one of the top you know book engagents. His nephew managers Adele. His father was one of the founders of the New Musical Express. I mean, this is a great musical family, you know, and uh and Rob's the star. So um. But so we did it, I said, Rob. I'm so happy, I said.

And I was really tired, you know, because I was losing sleepover you know somebody. So and and we did, you know, we're going to do the deal. And I knew they would accept it. May probably love Rob, you know, because he's so good. And uh, so I said, Rob, I'll see you. He said, what do you mean see me? He said, we have to come up with a name for the label. I said, Rob, you know, I've got Sire, I've got Blue Horizon, I've got I've had a couple other little labels at the time, so nothing of a

great note. But so I said, up, you'll pick it whatever you want. He said no, he said, there's a partnership. Will do it together. And we sat there and I was getting dizzier and dizzy, you know, and dizzy, and he was his favorite movie was A Clockwork Orange and uh. He had the poster there big and I'm started reading the poster and I see the word Carova, I said, Carova. He's I said, that's what we should call the label Corova. You know. He said, way did you get that from?

I said, from your poster? So he said, great, you know, And that's that's how that all happened. We'll pause here for a brief moment and get right back to my conversation with Seymour Stunt. For those not in the know, I'm primarily a writer, and you can sign up from my newsletter at left sets dot com or read it on the dog if that's too much for you, in addition to following my commentary on music tech in the world at large. They'll be the first to find out

when we've published a new episode of the podcast. Go to left sets dot com and sign him for the newsletter. I know you'll enjoy it. Now more with rock and Roll Hall of Famer legendary music executive Seymour Star. Now, did you sign Depeche Mode with did they just can't get enough? Come on, sire? You came after that when the guy left the band and started I had. I had depeche Mode from the very I was at their

very first gig. Uh. The thing is, I was a big fan of Daniel Miller, who I had put out two of his records that he was the artist, and I woke up one morning early, thank god, I woke up early, like six o'clock in the morning, and the anemy or melody maker it was Daniel Miller signs real band to Mute and Depeche Mode, you know, and then I read the horrible part that they're playing their first ever gig, you know, in Basildon. And it was that that day. So I called up that, you know, British Airways.

I said, uh, you got room on you on your Concorde flight at eleven you know, the said yeah. I said how much is it? Eight thousand dollars? So, you know, I ran out to the airport. You know, by this time I already had an apartment. I don't think I even packed anything I was inside, but I had an apartment in London by then. And uh I had an assistant there who picked me up, Paul McNally, and we drove up to Basildon. I was what shape I was in.

But they were great and unlike a lot of the other bands of that era, you know, they could really play, I mean, and uh so it was great songs, which some of the other bands had too. But you know, but with them. They had great musicianship, they were ready a great you know, lead singer. Then the latest you know that the band just continued to flourish, you know. And then I also had you know there the other band, this breakaway bands you know like Yeazoo and uh so

um that was unsired too. Yes, yes, all all their musical I saw Alison and hung with her when she was playing in l A Last Fall still has the pipes putting. I saw Alison. Yeah she's great, Yeah, really fantastic. Okay, So that ultimately brings us to Madonna. So tell us that it's been told before, but we're here. Tell us the story of signing Madonna. Um Mark Cayman's was a very talented young man and I got to know him and uh, you know, uh, you know, I think he

may have done a little work for us. I don't remember, but he said, look, Seymour, I want to produce one of your bands. I said, never. That will never happen unless you go to the band and they want you as a producer. They picked their producers. I don't pick them, I said, but I'll tell you what I'll do because I gotta you know, you got it. I'll give you eighteen thousand dollars, three thousand dollars each to make six records, you know, over the next year, and hopefully we'll find

something one or two you know things. And you know Madonna. It was either the third or fourth. The other the others never brought me anything bad, but nothing good enough. He brought me Madonna. And this was what Lucky Star. No, no, God, now you made me forget everybody. Everybody. Everybody, no, no, everybody, not Lucky Star, no everybody. So he brought me everybody,

just a demo. I was in the hospital. I was hooked up to all the I had a thing called sub acute endocarditis and the only cure for it then I hope it's not the same today. Was four weeks on antibiotics in the hospital. So h you know. So um I heard the record and I said, oh my god, I think she's really got it, you know. I said, look, I'm gonna be in the hospital for another two and a half weeks. You should bring her here, and I'd like to get the deal done as soon as possible.

So five o'clock he calls me up. We're coming tonight at eight o'clock, she wants to see you. So I said, oh my god, I hadn't shaved. I hadn't showered. God knows what I smelled like and everything. But I got somebody to cut my hair and shave me. I got them to unhooked me so I could take a shower. I got new bathrobe and everything and everything. When she walked in, I could tell she didn't care, you know, what I looked like or anything. She just wanted a shot.

And I admired that so much, you know, and uh, I said, look, you know, I really do this. On one song, I said, look, I want to make a deal with you, and I want to make you deal you know that would give you what I think is quite a term to really break open. I said, why don't we do three firm twelve inch record singles? I said, and because that's how I imagined everybody, And uh, you know, and then an option to pick up a long term

contract for albums. She said, great, you know, and all that, and you know and and and all of that, and you know that that was it, you know, But I I saw something in her, a real, real determination, you know. Um, you know, I you know, I saw that in a lot of women. I mean Chrissy Hind. The first time I saw her, you know, I wanted to sign them right in the club. I signed them the next day. You know. Now with Chrissy Hind, did she have a deal in the rest of the world. No, I signed

up for the world that pretended. So you're saying, Okay, you're talking about other women who you felt something with. Yeah, she is. She is dynamic, you know. I mean not that the men weren't, but but she was incredible, you know. And you know, but you know so uh, I don't know where were we know. I'm just saying you were mentioning other women that you saw me. D well k D. Another story I had Katie Katie Lang. Yeah, so m somebody sent me a record U of hers, you know,

because they knew I like country music. Uh, you know, a manager and what not. Her manager seem what, You're gonna love this record, and I did, and I loved it so much. I called her and she said, I'm playing this weekend, you know, and I said, well, I'll come up and see you. So I flew up to Albert uh and saw her perform. She took me to the rodeo and uh, you know, and uh, we had a great time with her and came back you know with the deal. She was unbelievable. She is unbelievable. I mean,

she's just a great, great singer. So going back to MacDonald, the first record ultimately hits first album and you have Borderline, you have Lucky starting out comes time to do the second record? Yes, how he ends on? Are you at that point? Well, I let her pick the producer, you know. I mean by that time, you know, I think Freddie was involved already. I think the man was involved. And uh you know, okay, well the second album you get it and they make the videos and it's like a

virgin and material. Girl. Do you see this is going to be the biggest thing in the world. I did, Yes, at that point. To what degree do you have a continuing relationship with her? Does she pushed you aside? No, No, she didn't push me, as I had a long term contract with um. You know, but by that time, I mean, I left it in my hands. It was and to be honest, the better in my hands. Um, you know, I mean, she's one of a kind, you know. Okay,

So let's talk a little business here. Traditionally in that era, if you had a hit record or two, you'd go back to the label and we negotiate your deal. Did she do that? Um? Yeah, she did, you know. And I I had introduced that to my lawyer, Alan Goverman, and he, you know, did a hell of a good job, you know, getting her a new deal. Well to give her more usually get to give or give to get. So what did you get returned for a higher royalty ray? Uh? Nothing? Okay,

So well I think no, I didn't say nothing. I think we've got additional album. Yeah, that's what I mean usually. Okay. So your success to what degree? Because we've only covered it tangentially, but you were notorious for travel and going to all these locations absolutely, and to what part of your success you believe is? What degree do you attribute your success to that? Oh? Great deal? I mean you

know I would go down to Australia. I signed bands there and I signed you know, right now, what I'm concentrating on, because I feel it coming very strong is India and China. And I'll be in India in August. Um and I go I got into her about it every year. Um, you know, China is really coming up.

Uh there are these people there that are the biggest promoters in India, Modern Sky, and I helped put them together with Liverpool Sound City, which is now with their you know infusion into the Liverpool is probably the biggest

English um you know, uh venue for new talent. I was just you know there a few weeks ago, about a month and Africo and um, you know, so, I mean I haven't been to Indonesia yet, but there's a lot of good music coming from there, the Philippines and look at all the boy bands coming out of Korea. I mean, uh, it's gonna be global. It's gonna be really really global. Okay. So there's been a lot of changes in the business since you start it. First of all,

all the majors were bought by giant corporations. There was branch distribution, there was the Beatles, there was MTV, the Internet. What do you think about the state of the business today compared to how it was previously, Well, the business always changes. I mean even before that, I mean, you know, I mean, record companies felt that when radio came in, it would be the end of the record business. People could listen to the records on the radio for nothing,

and it wound up helping. Um, you know, so how wrong were they then? I wasn't even born. Um, you know, and uh, you know a lot lots of things. There will always be a music business, how it's going to change and everything. Look, there was actually a music business four hundred years ago, but it was only for the very very rich and royalty and the rocks as we Bach and Beethoven, Tarkovsky, Uh, you know, and and and and nothing. America didn't exist, very little going on in

the UK. It was basically you know St. Petersburg and Vienna and uh you know, Berlin and places like that. You know, and you know they will always be a music business. And we can't live with that. I can't imagine living without music. Did you play music? How frequently? Less now than before? You know, but um, but still quite a bit. And so one thing one knows by hanging out with you in regular life, you're constantly breaking out. It's a song. So what are your favorite songs? Her

favorite records? Well, uh, my favorite song, you know is a song that really um you wouldn't believe it, but I'll tell you is La Massas Um I mean, believe it or not. First of all, it's from my favorite movie, uh you know, Humphrey Bogart, you know. But the thing is why I like it so much is because it was written two years after the start of the French Revolution, and it was a battle cry during the war. The Star Spangled Banner was written at the very end of

the War of eighteen twelve, you know. And it's it's not much of a melody anyway. I mean, it's an old English beard drinking melody. Um. You know, God saved the Queen is all right for the queen, you know. But but La massa as Is is a song that you know, sends chills up and down my spine, I mean,

and uh, I mean I I you know. I mean if if you want to know what my favorite music is, you know, it's it's it's some of it is Sia music, but a lot of it people like Little Richard and Fats Domino and Hank Williams and uh you know, Carl Smith and Farren Young. I love that era of country

and you know, rhythm and blues. It's the music that that I grew up and and they do up the you know, hots hots of Stone and uh you know by Otis Williams and the Charms and uh shaboom by the Chords, um jeeb had of Crows, stuff like that. I mean, it never goes away, you know. And I you know, I love a lot of my own sire records too very much, so you know, and you know, but you know, I have to ask, because I know you're heavily involved. What's your take on the Rock and

Roll Hall of Fame? Um? Well, um, it was a lot better when I'm at hear it again and and Jerry Wexler and those people were involved than it is today. But you know, that's all I will say about it. Now. Well, I guess, and I'm still involved. My viewpoint was, you know, it's called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and on some level, I know this doesn't make business sense, but at some point they should have closed the doors.

There are certainly people who are unjustly excluded, but now it seems to a degree they're inducting people just to induct people, and they're not of the stature of the people who came previously. Well, I don't know who you're referring to, but it might be because you're getting older and other people appreciate the artist set of being inducted a lot more. Um, I don't know. I mean I think there are people who have been omitted, and you know,

I'm very sad and upset about it. I mean, there's a category for um, you know, musicians, and they haven't inducted the greatest side man of all, Glenn Campbell because they don't think of him as a rock and roller. I mean, it's so it's so fucking ridiculous. I mean I have to say that. I mean you can that that. I just don't understand it. But and there were, there are, there are other things. Who else, give your memory serves

you is unjustly excluded. Oh god, I'd have to we'd have to do another broadcast because you know, the number of these there were, there were quite there are quite there are quite a few, I mean, you know, quite a few of the old But you probably wouldn't agree

with me on these people. Quite a few of the old R and B groups I think, Uh, I'm not a're not in yet that I don't I don't remember exactly which ones, but quite a few of the early R and B groups that really broke ground, um, you know, in in bringing rhythm and blues into the mainstream of pop and rock and roll. I think they should have more country artists inducted, you know, um, but I don't think they realize. Um Elvis Presley, who of course was

inducted the first year. But Elvis Presley's first six records only hit the country trots. They were on sun and you know and all that. You know, rock and roll was really country, rhythm and blues and blues to start with. And now look, I'm glad. I mean, music is a river and lots of new things flow into it and some of them get picked up as as as as as as you know, rock and roll and um, you know, I think that, but I think a lot of people got left behind. I'll tell you another person who should

be inducted, uh, and isn't is Ivory Joel Hunter. Do do you ever hear of him? Ivory Jael Hunted to me was like the cross between, um, you know, rhythm and blues and country. He he was a rhythm and blues artist, but the songs he wrote, you know, uh, I almost lost my mind and things like that. Since I met you, baby, these were huge hits in the country field. I mean, the only record I can really listen to and enjoy by Pat boon is his version of I Almost Lost my Mind, where he almost cries

at the edge of the song. I mean nothing against Pat Pool, you know, but anyway, I'm sorry, I get a little emotional. Iveraghan definitely belongs in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and it's a crime, you know, But you know, I have a lot less to say. I was. I was one of the founders. Um it was on it myself. Jerry wexle Um Alan Grubman got involved, not musically. I mean, if he was involved, Jerry Vale would be inducted. But the thing is that I note, you know, but uh, you know, it's just, you know,

it's you know, I think that that they should. You know that there were a lot of the older guys that were on the the nominating committee that are no longer there, like Bob Merrilis and Joe McEwen, who are brilliant, you know, and you know, it's just it's just a shame. But okay, and tangentile to that is rock dead. It all depends. I mean, let's let's use the paradigm. People would say jazz is that jazz had a peek in the thirties and forties. There's certainly jazz now, but it's

very small percentage of the overall listening. So is the same thing going to happen to rock? Well, I hope not. But I think that they'll always be room for rock and roll. They'll always be room, you know, for jazz. I mean, look, first all, Nina Simone was inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Family as Yes, she's a jazz singer, you know, and you know, um, and I think she got you know, one of the largest

percentage of votes. I I don't recall, but you know, you just um, I think I think there's gonna always be room for rock. I mean, it's a it's like a river, you know, and everything keeps flowing into it, and a lot of it stems from rock and roll. You know, rock and roll is still hanging in there. Best show you ever saw, uh, probably the Alan Freed shows that I would go to as a kid in the Brooklyn Paramount or the Brooklyn Fox. Um. They had like,

you know, more than a dozen artists. You had Chuck Berry, Frankie Lyman and the teenager Laverne Baker, all those great, great artists. Jackie Wilson, Um, you know, I would, uh, I would pack a sandwich and sit through all three shows, you know, and you had it. There was movies in between, Alan Freed movies which were not very good. But you know, I think that to me, Alan Freed was very, very very important in rock and roll. And you know, he

sadly is not that remembered. He's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame though, But you know, but uh, you know, so we've only scratched the surface of your career and your insights. But before I let you go anything else that you need to say, no, I'm just I'm very honored that you you know, you chose me

for a podcast, and you're a legend. I mean especially we're having this conversation of one of the a lot of people who have been successful just been business people, especially in the latter decades, as opposed to music fans. There would be in another business working for music. But you're passionate about music and had a sense of history that you know is being lost or unknown by future generations.

You're a real thumb of knowledge. I think there are other people like me coming up, I would hope, So I don't you know. I, um, you know, I would hope there'll be people to replace me, and uh, I think there will be. I'm optimistic about that. Well, I'm not sure there'll be somebody the champion ivery Joe Hunter, but we both know. You drop a needle on a record, doesn't matter whatever if it's great, you hear it. Yeah, Look, I mean there was there was great music before my time,

great music in the twenties. You had all those great songwriters back in the twenties, you know. I mean, look when I'm in England sometimes I go see Gilbert and Sullivan shows. You know, I mean what melodies we say, Elee, Ocean Blue, you know, incredible? You know. Um, I like some of the classics. I'm not I'm I wish I knew I knew them better, but but I I certainly you know, um, I mean musicals today even, I mean thankfully that some of them are being very successful now.

But you know, there's there's still nothing that to compete with Oklahoma or on My Fair Lady and things like that in my book. But maybe that's because I'm getting I grew up on that hour being younger than you. There the show too is being played in the house incessantly. That was the first music that huldn't be well. Your parents had good he is They were just touch My parents met, my father picked my mother up hitchhiking on the way home from Tanglewood. Oh the music connection and

my parents could never say not to hitchhike. And on that note, it's been wonderful. Thank you so much for being a podcast. Thank you. Until next time, it's Bob left Sets. Here was seymour Stein on my podcast. Wow, it was truly amazing to spend time with seymour Stein. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Bob left Sets podcast, produced by tune In. As always, I'm fascinating and interested in your feedback. You can email me

at Bob at left stats dot com. Until next time, I'm Bob left Sets me reas don't know exactly