Rick Mitarotonda

So I was always drawn to it. I was always, you know, pretty intensely moved by it. And then seeing older, older brothers and and things like that of friends of mine playing guitar. There's you know a few experiences like that, right. I saw someone playing you know, smells like teen spirit on a guitar, and I was like, whoa, yeah that I want to do that.

with practicing or anything like that. I started if I learned a chord or something, I just started making up songs. That was. That was kind of something that happened right out of the gate. But the discipline to start actually studying music and working on and practicing took took a little bit for me, didn't. It didn't happen right away.

these things sometimes. But I think when I when I started, you know, when I got a guitar and started really getting into music, it just it all kind of happened at once around that Around that time, you know, the music kind of came first, and then I was like, well, I'm just going to write lyrics for this and write songs.

So I wrote little songs about you know, bullies at school, whatever whatever it was, and quickly got into recording with whatever, you know, whatever kind of recording apparatus I could get my hands on at the time, which you know, I could started with like a little cassette recorder thing, which was awesome.

shy and like socially anxious. But then you know, by the end of my time out of school, i'd have, you know, a group of friends and a little micro community kind of thing, and it changed forms a bunch. But yeah, you know, when I was really young, I was I was less shy, and then I think when I hit middle school is when I started getting really shy and awkward and anxious.

By by high school school I was, I was, I was like, all right, it wasn't great. Definitely wasn't That didn't come super easily to me. Some some subjects were easier than others. But it wasn't like a it wasn't a total mess, but you know, it wasn't great.

kids in in the town. There and uh, I you know it, like I said, it took me a while before I started gaining gaining any discipline or getting serious about it or you know, showing real progress in that regard. I was always taken with it, but you know, it was more in the writing, in the creative, creative side.

And then at a certain point, Uh, that started to shift throughout middle school, I would say, And and I think by the you know, there was there was a turning point with him where he started to realize that I was I was really I was taking it seriously and pursuing it. And when he saw that I was starting to make strides, he started pushing me more and more into jazz and started teaching me jazz. That was That was kind of where that journey started in a lot of ways.

this ensemble and they put five hundred miles high. It was the Chickeria tune in front of me, and and I was still I still really didn't know what I was doing. At that point. I could, I could solo, you know over a modal thing. But you know, the first quarter was E minor, and you know, the head came around. I learned the head and played the head, and then solo came around. Everyone look to me and they're like, all right, you know, go and I was like E minor cool, got it and started selling over

E minor. The second chord is G minor, which is like a total total change, and uh, you know, I kept selling an E minor and sounded like a total dufist. So that was like the wake up of what that is was really all about. And uh that that was like the turning point there for me, which was like, it was a really cool moment for me in my musical journey, I guess because I just took that tune and sat down and learned the chord scales for every

every change and learned it in each position. And then you know, that was that was kind of the the impetus and in the moment catalyst for learning that type of thing, which was a cool experience.

wasn't thinking about if they were good or not. And I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying to go out and play play them at gigs. I wasn't trying to play them for people or like trying to do anything with them. The the discovery of them, like figuring out of learning some chords and finding a new chord progression that I hadn't I don't know, just discovering this the sound of a new chord progression and then writing a

song and then recording a song. That's really all I wanted to do, was like write these songs and record them. And that thing was just like the most thrilling process. That was the most thrilling thing I could possibly do with my time at that time. And yeah, there there wasn't. I really wasn't thinking about playing gigs or or or

doing anything with it. It. Eventually, I you know, got a band together, I got a got my best friend to start playing bass, and and we you know, found another guy who we were friends with at school and

he was playing drums. We had a trio and by eighth grade we recorded like an album in my in my basement with a little cork twelve track you know, you just burn you bounce everything down into a CD and I you know, uh copied a bunch of CDs and sold him around school and that was like it was it was this just the purity of the whole thing was just I you know, I think back to it all the time. It was kind of doesn't get better than that.

in eighth grade. You know, we had we had made this this this album had like fifteen tracks on it and sold around school and had never played out anywhere, but never played live or anything like that, and uh, you know, it was this. It was this like the night the day of the thing, Everyone's like you nervous. I was like, no, I feel totally fine. And then I just like threw up everywhere. So I guess that was the the maiden voyage of learning what what performance

anxiety does to my nervous system. But yeah, it was It was a it was a funny experience.

been like a one done kind of situation. But I remember I would, like, you know, play and sing and record, and then have had a buddy who was like kind of starting to learn drums. It was like early early, the first things. And he he didn't have a drum set, but he was taking drum lessons and he had a practice pad, so he would come over and he would just like whack on the pack practice pad and I would learn it. So that was that was kind of the the first thing, which is you know, pretty short lived.

know a few mics for the drum set. So that was all going to the cork and then I would overdub vocals just to uh, you know, but I was a horrible singer. But I had no awareness I did, you know. I was just doing it, having a great time. But this singing thing was was never never there, never easy, never was I was not a natural singer by any stretch.

I had this this DVD called Under the Radar. It was a Dispatch DVD, and it was it was kind of this, uh, kind of scrappy DVD of them like on the road and just doing things, going out of the studio, playing shows, to talking about their come up and Napster and that whole that whole thing. And I was, I was obsessed with that band at that time. So like I would say, in those early years of you know, whould I want to be, it was Dispatch.

try this, let's try this. And it didn't feel like there was I don't remember there being like they're they were I think from what I recall, Uh, they were just down down to go for the ride, you know, and and you know they weren't they weren't writing songs. It was either so it was kind of like a all right, yeah, here's this is the song, let's do it wasn't really didn't. I don't know. I think we were too young for it to be any kind of ego battles.

a little hat business called head Bandits. So we were we were kind of little little entrepreneurs, I guess, running around. But yeah, I think the album we made five hundred and seven hundred bucks something like that, which was pretty solid enough to buy like a new base amp.

one of those things when you're when you're young. You know, you got a little a little pack and everyone's kind of like getting in on the like we're doing it kind of energy. You know.

freedom there. This is my own perspective. I guess there's there's a lot of freedom in it and in the songs and stuff, and a lot of decisions that were made that I would never make now because they were coming from a place of having no no like theoretical understanding of of music and you know what, how like what kind of chord progressions are normal and things like that, which ended up making way more interesting choices, you know, because it's it was just kind of throwing things at

the wall and chasing your ear and wound up being some some things that just you know are just very like kind of like wild card, wild card choices. But the vocals, like I said, were just like brutal. So I don't know if people listen to it or not. Can So how did you go?

So I guess there was. There was like that. I remember that energy being kind of a thing, you know because like the other other bands were probably better than us, and you know, in the grade or whatever, but they were playing covers, but like they're saying way better and they're they're probably tighter and they played better or whatever it was, but you know, they're they're being just a lot of ideas, a lot of original songs happening. Uh felt like an energy, But I don't I don't think.

I don't know if we were good or not, or if people thought we were good. I have no idea.

was writing and recording a lot. But more so, the band wasn't really playing anymore. I think the drummer just didn't want to do it anymore. He stopped paying drums. He was like he was actually amazing skier. He was kind of pursuing that more and just wasn't interested in playing drums anymore. So we kind of stopped doing the

band thing. But I continued to record a lot of music and I kept I was writing more than ever my first year of high school, and I had another buddy who played drums and keys, and he would come

over and we would record stuff together. He'd play drums and keys, I'd played guitar bass and sing something on it, and so I was doing a lot of that, and then the summer summer after first year of high school, I started smoking weed and I got really into that, really really into that, and the it kind of propelled it was it was a major turning point in the journey because I got deeper and deeper into that was that was, you know, strangely when I really started studying music,

starting studying theory and improvisational music in particular, but I

stopped writing. I think, what is something about the way that impacted my brain and how things were, you know, there was there was still a lot of momentum and forward movement in from a musical standpoint, but the writing like halted in its tracks pretty much, which is you know, somewhat of a regret looking back kind of, you know, I can't help but be curious what would have happened if I had stayed on the trajectory it was on prior to that. But you know, nevertheless, I had a

great time in high school for the most part. You know, it was those early years I was pretty sensitive and emotional and you know whatever. But as as the years went on, it was, you know, I had a lot of fun. You know, in high school it was kind of it was kind of like, you know, all you could ask for, and you know, I didn't realize it. I mean we was just having a great time at

the time going through things. You know, I had anxiety and stuff too, but I guess it was mostly relative to my perspective post high school that I that was. That was when I really realized how great of a time it was in so many respects. But yeah, it was you know, studying the like with the guitar teacher, he was pushing jazz more and I was studying that, and that was kind of the time I got into you know, the Dead and Fish and things of that.

You know, different types of jam bands. I'm Friese McGee and MO and all these all these different bands and learning that stuff. Getting into that world. Uh, playing along with those bands was kind of the moments where it was just like a release. It was just so much fun and it was kind of like I'd spend time studying jazz and trying to decode that language and then let my hair down and play along with with, you know, the jam bands in my room after school kind of thing.

went went full like young love mode. And then I don't know, you know, when that summer after freshman year of high school, I started smoking a bunch of weed and we kind of just, I don't know, it's like we just we kind of went separate ways in a way, and uh, you know, it's tough to remember how those things unfold, but you know, they's like when you go that that deep as a young kid, you have like no idea, you have no idea what like what you're doing, and you just kind of like the fall, you know,

neck deep into the young love thing and it's just it's like consuming and then the there's there's you know, strange things that come out of it when you don't have balance. I guess that maybe that's that's part of the thing, is I don't, you know, struggle with balance when when there's something I'm you know, really uh drawn to. I guess you know it's like, oh, make the analogy of like getting getting a bag of Dorito's and dumping

out the entire bag of Dorito's on your lap. It's a weird analogy, but that's that's kind of how we've come to refer to that that type of energy instead of you know, the lack of being able to pace yourself or or maintain some kind of balance in the context of entering into or being drawn, you know, engaging with something that you're drawn to in in an intense way. It could be you know, analogy. You know, it's it's

presented itself in all types of different situations. Relationships, a band, you know anything.

like a weird thing. You know, sometimes it gets kind of weird when that's when that's the vibe. But they knew what we were doing and they were cool with it as long as everyone was making good decisions and there I think their philosophy was like, we'd rather them here safe and uh learning how to make good decisions while partying. Then you know this it being this this crazy forbidden thing and then making making much worse mistakes.

a year prior. So I think it was like one summer I did this one guitar camp somewhere in Connecticut, and then I did a one week thing at Berkeley. And then I think the following summer, I just I was getting more and more serious and and uh about it, and I did the five week program. Uh the following summer, I think, and yeah, I was you know, I I was very very lucky that my parents were able to and willing to set me up in those programs and and you know, that's like, that's the privilege I was.

It was, it was, it was privileged to be able to learn music at that age.

more like college. Honestly, you know, you set up in a dorm and the people doing that program were just way more serious and the vast majority of them were way better than me. And that was I think my first brush. I remember very vividly having a conversation with my with my dad out in the street one night, maybe halfway through that thing where I was, I was kind of homesick and like just getting my ass kicked. It was it was the I mean, the talent there,

the talent pool. It was the classic thing of like, you know, I was very comfortable. I wouldn't. I wasn't. I wasn't even a big fish in my little pond.

He always knew how to how to do that, and uh, yeah, I remember that night. That was so the five week thing definitely stands out as a point of my first brush with with that environment of losing feeling like I was losing my own connection to music and why I do it.

they were writing this. One was like a classical trained uh, piano player, pianist, and uh the other one was the drummer, the same guy I was. I was kind of recording songs with in uh, you know, earlier in high school, and they were they were super into like progressive I don't know, metal, progressive metal, hard rock, kind of kind

of dream theater kind of stuff. So they were writing writing stuff like that, and Uh, I I was, you know, I was in a band with them, and uh, we would we were playing Teen Centers a bunch and and doing that that kind of thing, and it was nice. You know, I had had like a creative I had

creative input, I had a voice in that band. But that was also, you know, one of the first early experiences I had of being not the not the driving force behind a project or you know, not like the main main writer or something like that in a project, just kind of like would come in and have ideas, but mostly was the guitar player, you know. And it was, uh, it was a great experience. We we learned a lot together and and uh had a lot of fun like

playing playing these uh these teen Centers. It was a very different scene than the people that I was, the friends that I had, and the you know, the parties I was going to and stuff like that. It was it was a very different, very different world. And uh, you know, I'd often like we'd have these gigs on the weekend at teen Centers and there'd be like a party that everyone else, all my friends were going to, and I'd try to get some of them to come to the Team Center with me, and They're like, nah,

we're gonna go to the party. I was like, all right, so I'd go, I'd hang out with them for a few hours and then roll into the Teen Center and it was it was There was a lot of funny

experiences there. But yeah, I mean the music was they The stuff they were writing kind of kind of kicked my ass and in some different ways too, you know, I was like dose they were it was like soloing over some chord progression in fifteen and stuff like like learning that was you know, they were pushing me to do stuff like that, which was which was really cool

at that age. At the same time I was learning, I was just learning a lot about music and studying, studying jazz and stuff like that, and this they were nerd. They were like kind of the nerdy metal guys, doing weird number stuff, a lot of a lot of strange, odd time stuff, and that was that was a that was a really good learning experience in that way.

songs throughout high school and in college and stuff. And you know, some friends of mine knew about and like would send me recordings of songs he wrote or different things like that. I was, I was readily aware. And then I think it was the summer. It was either the summer going into my last year of high school or the summer after my last year of high school. Ran into him at a party which was coincidentally at

Trevor's house, the bass player for Goose. Now, there was a party at Trevor's house and this guy's his name's Matt Campbell. And he rolled into this party and and uh, I was, you know, I was pretty lit up. I was. I was kind of a remote and I saw him. I was like, you, like, I know you. I know, you, you know, play and write and stuff like where's where's your where's your gear? Let's get your gear, Let's play

right now. So he his parents' house was down the road, and we drove and got his gear and came back and that was the first time that we'd really connected and really hung out. I don't really remember playing that night, but I do remember the next day he came back to get his gear and we played that afternoon, and that was that was really the first time, like we really connected and played music together, and it was it was pretty impactful. So then throughout the years I was

in college and stuff, he was in college. Uh he graduated, you know a year a few years prior to me. Every summer we kind of would link up one way or another and play, play gig or something or you know, different little projects whatever it was. And then, uh, there was this one summer after my second year of college, I want to say where I was like, all right, I just I gotta I gotta start, I gotta get a band together, I gotta start doing something. So I kind of went around and uh found a couple of

random guys at school. Who are I mean, there's so many good players there was. It was insane, but I found a couple of guys and started just booking gigs at bars in Connecticut on the weekends this one summer and also just like throwing parties at my house and playing there. So we kind of got this little band together this one summer and it was a it was

a really fun summer. And Matt had graduated from college and got an internship at Red Light and he was thinking about, you know, entering the music industry in that way, and he didn't. He didn't get too far in that. He was like, I don't. I don't think he was there very long before he realized that it wasn't for him, and he, you know, at that he had he'd been playing with us that summer. We had some like really

great experiences the first time we started writing together. We wrote a couple of songs that summer that we still play now. And you know, it was like that fall that he was like, I'm not doing the red Light thing. Let's start a band, and I was like, Yeah, let's cool,

let's do it. And so I think it was that that following, you know, the top of that next year, I dropped out of school and we just started working working on this band, and it was so that band ended up being like it lasting for a year and a half and it was extremely formative experience for all of us. It laid the groundwork for what what the band is now for sure, But it was also the timing was kind of kind of wild in terms of

like universe karma type stuff. I got sick. I got really sick kind of right when that band was starting. Like I crashed like right before, right right around that time, and that had a pretty big impact on I mean everything for me, but the trajectory of that band for sure.

and we became really really close. He died a couple months after my grandfather, and then right after he died, my dad got sick cancer and he was sick for five or six months and then died in September of two thousand and nine. And that was like, it was like my uh, you know, first week of at Berkeley.

I was in denial. I was running from him. I was party a lot. I was having a really great time with my friends in school and everything and couldn't really show up to that at all. I wasn't conscious of it. But you know, in my you know, eighteen year old invincible, There's no way my like my dad's I'm invincible. My dad's definitely invincible. There's not no way nothing you know, bad would happen to him. He'll figure

it out. He figures everything out. He just he was like, he was a really really special guy, and he loved me a lot, you know, kind of to a fault maybe, and and had a really like I like I said before, kind of had a pretty amazing ability to to see people, talk to people, say the right thing, do the right thing, and just had a lot of a lot of charisma and a lot of people were drawn to him and he, uh, you know, he solved a lot of my problems throughout

the my my early life. You know, if something was was I was, there was something I was struggling with, you know, he would make it better, and it was coming out of love and stuff. But when when he died, it was I was not really prepared for it, and I could just shut down. I like went into full full shock. I don't really remember much, you know that my memory from like my first year of college was pretty shoddy, and uh yeah, I don't know. I just you know, all of a sudden had like really really

bad anxiety issues. I was having panic attacks multiple times per week and a couple after a couple of years of that, my body just kind of shut down, you know, for a long for many years, was trying to figure out like what it was, what's the problem. It was like mono, you know, Epstein bar lime disease, kind of that kind of world. But no one, know, none of the doctors I was seeing could really put their finger on it. It was just, you know, one of those situations.

So I've been on been on that journey ever since, honestly.

I just didn't have enough energy. But they, you know, I some there's a couple of things I discovered that that helped enough for me to go back to school and start the band and you know, kind of be getting by and then you know, it's there's it's it's up and down. You know, things if stress gets too high or you know, certain things change and things you can kind of like heads south again. But I've it's it's something that I've I've just never stopped trying to figure out and and learn about.

You know that we went our separate ways. That that band dissolved, and shortly after that I started seeing I started seeing this girl and she was moving out to Colorado to go study massage therapy, and I had nothing going on. I didn't know what I was doing with my life. I was kind of down and out, pretty sick, had dropped out of school to do this band band fell through, had put all my eggs in that basket, and I really didn't know what to do with myself

after that point. And she was moving out there, and I was like, is it cool if I come, you know? So I went and moved out there, and it was kind of the thing I needed. I needed to get out of my home here and gain some new perspective on on on everything, I guess. And while I was out there, I was walking around Fort Collins one day and there were these uh Hark Harry Krishna guys playing playing music, chanting, singing with a little circle in in

the downtown area there. They were, you know, based in Denver. They were they were like, they were young, young people and most of them had went to you know, went to jazz school coincidentally and and then got into got into that thing. So they were they were like good musicians. This guy, this guy was playing the murdanga a drum and he was really good. And then there's another guy playing the harmonium and had had this beautiful voice, and

so I kind of became friends with them. They they came up before Collins once a week and I would just go to the go to the gatherings and you know, they you would sing, chant, meditate, eat, they'd bring food, you food for free, and there was just discussions about spirituality and different things like that, and and uh, it was awesome, you know, we I got really into it, just just that that experience hanging out with them and learning all these wild stories about you know, Vedic like that,

all the Vedic stories. There's all these crazy characters and monsters and dragons and and you know, the gods are you know, the whole thing was it was very colorful and and uh it's kind of this illustrious world of spirituality and and uh, you know they were they were great people, and I'd met someone who was you know, the kind of At one point told them I was struggling with my health and stuff, and they they referred me to someone in their community that was a aravadic

aveda practitioner, and I started learning about learning about that that whole thing, and that was that was kind of a starting point of of just getting some basis on you know, what what my what type of body I have, and what type of foods are going to you know, be nourishing or not make me feel you know, really sick kind of thing. So that was that was the beginning of that journey.

talk therapy wasn't going deep enough for me. I knew, I knew it wasn't because the issue wasn't in my in my mind, it was in my body, you know, like the the the feeling or the experience of that loss relative to what my life had been prior to that, and my you know, like relationship to the world and and and things like that, and just kind of just not feeling safe in the world after all of that was it was not something that was in my mind. It was it was totally in my body, and the

talk therapy just wasn't like I in my mind. I kind of got the whole thing I was. I was I was almost I was too much in my mind and had just like the connection between that and my life and my body. It just had been like kind of severed. So that just wasn't any time I tried something like that, it just it just wasn't working for me.

It wasn't moving the needle at all. So yeah, you know, I once I exhausted all the all the conventional medicine types of things like you know, infectious disease doctors and all kinds of weird specialists and everyone. You know, there was like blood work stuff that was off and things that were you know, clearly an issue, but no one really knew why. You know. Then I started getting into the alternative stuff and exploring that way. It was you know,

out of largely out of desperation. But then you know, on the note of the talk therapy thing, it was at the same time there was you know, born out of all that was kind of this pretty intense like needing to know, needing to try to find answers about what's going on here because that whole experience was so strange for me, and there was so many it's hard, it's you know, it sounds pretty pretty strange to say, but around that whole experience there was so much crazy

synchronicity and you know, like I was, it's a yeah, really hard to explain, but so many experiences of there being wild signs and just things like that that just felt like there was no way that you know, it just took me completely out of my frame of what life was prior to that, and it kind of sent me on a path of pretty you know, ravenously seeking answers about what's going on here.

that it was, but it is. I mean, it's for sure, very challenging lifestyle to to be in with that kind of underlying. Yeah, I don't want to say I don't. I don't. I don't want to say weakness, but you know, it's it's with that that backdrop of a thing going on. It's it's definitely not an easy thing to continue healing while traveling around and you know, very high stress performance situations,

all kinds of things like that. It's you know, it's it's tricky to navigate, but you know, throughout it's it's been many years of us you know, on the road. Now, I guess and Uh, in the earlier years, there is a lot more challenge to it. And I think as time has gone on and I've I've learned more things about things that can help and support on a physical level, whatever it may be, it's gotten easier.

things that actually support us in that way. And I've tried a lot of weird, weird alternative things, and you know, some of them were helpful, some of them I learned things from. But for the most part, it's really it's really like the simple stuff that I rely on the most and and have been the most impactful. But yeah, I mean I'm still as as much as I can. It's continuing to study and learn about things like that, things in that world, and it's it's such a it's

a crazy space. I mean, there's like there's so much noise in that world, just like any any any space these days. But you know, it's just more and more so many different ideas about things, totally contradictory ideas about things. And so I'm just trying to you know, I try to keep an open mind and keep learning and and uh, you know, trying to get stronger all the time.

you know, the rock star lifestyle. It feels like more so a personal thing than that, more so just you know, being being my own biggest enemy, maybe from a from a lifestyle standpoint, and in terms of just like the hunger to to keep working and keep trying to move forward in both in any way possible, like the you know, creatively or or with like the well being thing, all of that. It's it's uh that it doesn't. It's a challenge.

What's what's left? There's not much leftover. I guess that's what I'm getting at from that.

It's I'm kind of in a bubble. I'm not I'm not meeting a lot of people honestly in that way. And uh, yeah, it has it hasn't been a super present thing. When when the band first started doing really well, I I was I was in a relationship and I had fallen I had fallen for her really hard, and uh it was, uh, you know, it was kind of when that happens, at least in my experience, it's there's there's zero hesitation. You you kind of just like see red and it's just kind of like there's no it's

tunnel vision kind of. And that was that was the situation. I started seeing her in twenty nineteen and right when the band really started, like you know, when the moment happened kind of, So it was it was a crazy

that was a crazy turn of life. It was a it was a really really intense change of momentum from where where I was coming from what I was used to, you know, in both ways, like the band kind of all of a sudden, you know, starting to pop and then and then that that relationship on a personal level, it was it was just like this like roller coaster and it it kicked my ass, honestly, but yeah, that was that. I kind of thought that that was that

was the one. And then as as the years went by, and you know, a lot happened throughout the pandemic and you know, things going on her family and things I was going through. You know, my health kind of got really really rough again throughout that period from the stress and I don't know other factors that were introduced into I don't I don't know what it was, but for

whatever reason, I kind of crashed again pretty bad. In twenty twenty one, kind of when it hit came to a head, and yeah, we just you know the nature of our relationship changed a lot, and we were kind of coping with every everything that was happening. Her father had passed away, and so I was I was with her through that, and you know, the things she was she was trying to work through with her, you know, in her in the context of her family and her

own life and things. We had this like very supportive friendship, but the romantic part of our relationship kind of just went away, and that took a toll over time and to the point, you know, eventually we just you know, decided to to go our separate ways. You know, we're don't touch and she's she's amazing. But yeah, just you know, it was it was a tough thing to navigate.

trying to figure out the world we're in. It is that the customary thing is perpetual touring, which you know, I've kind of talked about this a good amount in different different things, but it's, you know, the observationally typical artists bands, you know, the typical thing is, you know, you you make a record, you put the record out, you tour for like a year, two years usually, and then you kind of go dark and go back in and work on the next thing and until you're ready

to make the next statement and you have that time to to be you know, two go into like creative fertility mode, you know. And that's been something I've I've I've kind of wrestled with, I suppose because you know, some people are able to write on the road, and I'm not one of them. It's when there's a lot going on, there's a lot of momentum and all this

stuff over like overstimulation. It kind of it quiets all the the the voices from which I you know, rely on or try to tap into for making songs and stuff like that. They're they're they're quiet, they're they're subtle, you know, and it takes a lot of work and a lot of patience and a lot of stillness too.

To hear hear anything from from that from that place for me, So that's been something I've wrestled with and I think we're still kind of constantly talking about it and and trying to figure out what the right balance is to to keep keep the momentum and keep the ball moving forward and keep playing shows. And because it's it is this that is like a self propelling thing.

It's it's and I love it. Like when we get off we get to the end of a tour and where you know, everything's feeling great and like the crew, like the vibe with every it's a big family, it's a big tribe, and you know, there's there's so much, so much amazing, so many amazing things that come with that and from that. So it's it's it's pretty frequent that at the end of a tour it's like, man, I don't want to stop, Let's keep going. You know,

it feels so great. But then at the same time, there's this other other side, this other voice that's like, dude, you need to stop for like three years. We need to just hang out in the woods and stare at trees and and be quiet and see what you know, just like be present in a way that I haven't in a very long time, you know. So you know, it's a balance thing.

primarily exist in. It's you know, the question of its relevance is is very valid because we you know, for the most part, are it seems like most of the people who you know, uh, come to the shows and stuff, are are just interested in that. Primarily they just want to come to the shows and listen to the shows and and do that. But regardless, I guess I don't. I just love I love making albums, and I want to make a lot of.

I love it just as much and and you know, on another hand, so it's really tough to say, but you know, I guess the cool thing is that both both can both can happen, and both will continue to happen, you know.

not separate. Sometimes it's you know, sometimes the best if I'm stuck on something like from a just a writing phase, I'll just start, you know. Sometimes the way out of that is is working on a demo for it and just starting starting recording it and throwing ideas and decisions at it in that way. And then sometimes that can kind of like creak, you know, look at like get the wheels moving on on finishing an idea. Although I

will say finishing things is not my strong point. I'm a lot better at starting ideas than finishing them.

then maybe you know, someone will write a song, I'll write a song and bring it to the band and then it's still a whole process of arranging it and

finding parts and that whole thing. And that's that's kind of tied in this, you know, the same same, same, but different in terms of recording, you know, finding the arrangement, finding and sometimes we you know, we'll play as you know, we go and to record a song that we've been playing live for a while and feel a desire to completely change it and we do or not, you know, or we like we're still excited by the way we

play it and it still feels good. So we decide to try to just record it the way we play it live. It all depends on how we feel about it, and and you know, what we feel most ect I did buy, I guess you could say, But yeah, I mean the process of arranging it, inevitably, that's gotta be.

That's it's always interactive, finding parts and finding you know, what feels most alive, because sometimes you can have an idea about how something should be, like what kind of groove it should have or what kind of feel, and you know what the arrangement should be, and then you bring it in the room and it doesn't feel as

alive as you thought it would. So then you have to go and explore and see see what you know, what feels the most alive and what plays the most to the strengths of the people in the band.

was kind of like, well, I'll just do it. I'll just start it, you know, and and and do it that way. And it's kind of I guess always just

kind of been that way. So, you know, I think there's there's a lot of qualities and that I see other great leaders in in our world, you know, band leaders and stuff have that I don't feel like I'm I'm not you know, on that level with the with in certain respects, and so you know, there's I think there's I don't know, it's tough to tough to compare, tough to tough to look at that type of thing.

But yeah, you know, I think just due to the nature of of like, hey, here's this idea, let's do it, and that that being you know, applied many times over, I guess kind of has resulted in, uh, you know, how how how things roll in our camp?

There's there's a lot of uh, there's like this this air, this can this this conjecture that in in like the jam band world that you know, Goose was this uh, this like test tube thing, like an industry plant and that like you know, it was like a you know, the the boy band of the jam band world or something where like some some guy like put it all together and it's it's a it's a funny it's a funny thing too funny perception that has evolved out of that in the context of like what a crazy rocky

road it was in reality and how imperfect and how much failure there was getting to this point in those early years, like yeah, we went we went through we tried a lot of different things, went through a bunch of different members. Some of them it was, you know, incredibly amicable, and it was just kind of like, hey, you know, I don't this is really work anymore, and they're like cool. I was thinking the same thing. We're like cool, let's be friends and and like go our

separate ways. And then other times it was like, hey, this isn't working anymore, and it was you know, people were really hurt by it, and and it was it was a really difficult thing to navigate, and you know, it's yeah, it's both just it's just like relationships in any in any circumstance, you know.

it is. It's nothing ultimately, you know, it's it's nothing that's worth losing sleepover. And then you know, sometimes I did it does I'm like whoa, Like why? You know? How did it? How did this? How did this happen?

Like how did it get this crazy? You know? So, I you know, on some on some levels, there's there's some obvious stuff where there's there's answers to that, and then other times where I'm like, I don't know this whole things strange, you know, because when when we were coming up, when it was first happening, there wasn't you know,

there wasn't much of that. But uh, and then you know, part of the thing is just like if something gets gets bigger, then it's no longer cool to think it's cool, you know.

and different combinations of influences. You know. I guess to your question, I my philosophy about that is if you can have ideas about that kind of thing, and uh be like, oh, I want to I want to be different in this way. I want to you know, not be this or be I want to be this. And it's it's that being heady about it like that rarely in my experience, results in anything worthwhile. It rarely works,

you know. I think I've always had this feeling that like, you kind of have what you have, you can work on it, you can get better, you can you can you know, pull your thread as much as you want to get deeper and deeper into your process, which is what everyone should do. It's the you know, that's the best thing you can do. But at the same time, it's your you. You have to honor and you have to be real about, like what you are really drawn to, what you really get off on, and what you're really

inspired by. In my case that you know, I kind of what we're talking about before, in high school and stuff. I was, you know, fully immersed in that you know, quote unquote jampan world, which I admittedly don't I don't think that's the uh the most you know, illustrious term, but you know whatever, the improvisational rock world, the jam band world, whatever you want to call it. I was. I loved it. I was totally immersed in it. Where I grew up, that was what everyone was doing. Everyone

was going to the shows. And you know, even even like the really cool kids, the cool popular kids were going to those shows. Everyone. It was just it was a thing. And so that was where I was coming from, and I was. I loved it. I was. I was completely taken with it. And then you know, as I got out of college and those those years, and I was kind of entered into a very different I wasn't partying at all. I was pretty sick. It was kind

of in a very different emotional place. I started getting into really different music, and a lot more modern music, because I prior to that point I really wasn't in tune at all with with like the current indie world or even you know, pop or anything like that. I had no idea. I was listening to more Otis Redding and West Montgomery and Nina Simone. Had no idea about Fleet Foxes or Bony Bear, but those those bands. When I kind of discovered that music, it like took over

my my situation. I was so inspired and so enamored with that music. It started with the Fleet Foxes. I was like that I was just fully immersed in that world for for years and my throughout my twenties. It was you know, those first two records and that that EP the sunshint Ep. It was like those It was such an immersive thing, which I that's what I you know,

I love that so much. It was it was like this timeless yet kind of like this medieval medieval world and the artwork and their aesthetic and and the music, it all, it all worked so well together, and it all created such a specific feeling and world that I just like didn't want to leave. And that led to,

you know, discovering other other things. So at that point in my life that that type of music and and different artists doing things in real time now became became like my main point of inspiration and in a lot of ways, and I think you know that that to me kind of became the somewhat of a novel idea.

You know, I wanted to hear I wanted to hear Fleet Foxes, you know, go on a really cool twenty minute improvisation after they're really cool songs, you know, and uh, that didn't really exist to my awareness, So that kind of became this this idea of like, you know, well, I'm I'm very taken and drawn to these these these this world and you know, other other approaches to songwriting and production and stuff like that, and uh, you know, maybe marrying that with with my roots and in the

improvisational rock world and jazz and stuff like that. It, you know, it it felt like a h there was there were things to threads to pull, there things to explore there.

it and how those things can be struggle. And you know, for me, I still I still believe in that I feel like though, I feel like it's worthwhile, you know, trying to get trying to get bigger and working working to you know, to reach more people there. You know, it's it's easy. You can easily view that maybe the impulse is to view that as as a self serving kind of endeavor, which I'm sure you know, inevitably on

a lot of levels it is. But at the same time, there's a I've always seen something beautifull about it, and you know, have seen, like I know, the way that I know the impact that bands who have been very big and have done big, amazing things have had on me,

and how inspiring that's been to me. And I've seen how it's the space that's occupied in other people's lives and how you know, it has the ability to help people get through, you know, things that they're experiencing and things that they're struggling with and provide some kind of light in their lives. And you know, so I think that that you know, became that became a mission for me at a certain point after after the things I

had experienced and stuff. It kind of amplified that, it reframed and amplified that as you know, going from being stone in high school watching Fish DVDs being like that looks awesome. I definitely want to do that too, you know, really kind of getting to this place where I was really struggling with my existence and trying to make sense out of that, and you know, all the things that had happened and the things I had lost and the life, the life, that lifestyle and experiences that I had lost.

You could do what you're doing, and thirty years from now you could be Fish. You could do what you're doing. Thirty years from now you can be Fleet Foxes. Those are ultimately cult acts. They have an audience that keeps them alive. Now, in reality, everybody's a cult act today, even Taylor's with people are paying attention where they're not. Okay, But as I say, it's not rocket science. You look

at your new album. These songs are lengthy, and you could say, theoretically, you're an educated person literally musically educated, could say, well, you know I could do a verse chorus bridge thing, throwing a solo, and you know that might have a chance of moving the needle further. What do you think about that?

the way it's going to be going forward. The difference with your act is you are very successful in a short period of time, which has not happened in this world for a while. So the question arises is there a broader audience for your music. Secondly, is there a tweak such that it can be made? Listen, if we used the progenitor here, the Grateful Dead, Okay, Anthem of the Sun, those records, those were long improvisational records for

hardcore fans, only growing slowly. You get The Working Man's Dead, American Beauty Quanti. It is a little bit of a change in style, but a lot of people could understand it, and the people who understood it became fans and carried through many years after. You know, they ultimately were on Arista and they had an MTV hit whatever. They knew what the game was, and they made certain choices that ultimately didn't compromise who they were, but it brought them

to a larger audience. They were not the only band in that sphere. They're just the band that's most remembered, that has the largest audience. Okay, you're a smart guy. In the back of your mind, do you think about that? Hey, you know, I'm here and it's pretty good to be here, but could I be somewhere that would even be better?

pop music that excites me. Actually, there's you know, there's certain yeah, there's certain pop music that I think is awesome and and production and you know, as much as I love a twenty minute jam, I there's sometimes I love there's like three minute songs that are you know, crushing on the radio that I think are amazing. So part of that is it's a genuine you know, I part of me wants to make more music like that. Another part of me wants to get deeper and deeper

into the improvisational thing. So it's uh, you know, yeah, I don't. I don't think. Uh, there's The thing I want to do mostly is pull on new threads and try to become more more of what we can be, you know, like like how how much can we be? You know? And when it comes to the to the business of it and the the thing I know, I never really you know, all of all the people that I look up to have have paved their own path

and created their own worlds. And to me that I think that's always seemed like the best case scenario is just being existing in your own world pulling people in that weren't aren't always you know, not like that. Aren't just fish fans or just you know, other fans of

other things. That's that really excites me. You know the thing, you know, the notion of someone hearing a song of ours that has no bearing, no awareness, no experience with improvisational music, there jam, the jam band scene, any anything like that, and getting into it, coming to a show, probably being pretty surprised with you know, there being music happening for twenty minutes on end with no vocals or

anything like that. And you know, the notion of some of those people that person discovering that they like that approach to music and are are you know, are taken by that, by the journey of that. That's really exciting to me. And I think, and I hope that's already happening. You know, obviously we've we've come up in in that scene, in that world and for the most part, and you know, some it's it's tough to tell. There's no way to know,

but it feels like it's somewhat split. You know. Some of those some of those people like what we're doing. Some of them, you know, pretty passionately don't like it seemingly, which you know, there's nothing we can do about that,

but just keep trying to get better. But you know, I think, yeah, I think that's a really exciting thing having, uh, having people that exist that listen to completely different types of music somehow stumble into our world and if they like it and want to learn more about it, and that's I think that's a really cool thing and that's

something worth striving for. It in my mind, is you know, opening up, opening up more more past, and sometimes that leads people to other improvisational music that other jam bands and uh, and I think that's a really cool thing. You know.

doing doing well. We weren't like, we weren't loaded, but we were comfortable, and you know, there was there are certain points in my life where it seemed like I think things changed for my parents financially, like when when they first when they first got a house in Wilton when I was born, and they didn't pay much for it at all. It was it was a you know, the town I think was still there was still pretty rural, kind of lower income, uh options for for for people

at that time there. And yeah, maybe I was in middle school or something. I think he got a promotion or something like that. And you know that I was too young to like, I wasn't really aware of things on that level at that point. But in retrospect, is it is you know, we we we started going on vacations and going you know, doing a trip to a to a hotel in Mexico for a week, you know,

or they did. They did some work on the house that you know, there was there's some things that I think there are points where he started doing better and making more money. And by the time he died, I think my family, my mom was comfortable enough so that we were able to she like, she's she's able, she's she's able to live off of off of that, and was able to, you know, support me enough in the

ways you know that that I needed. I lived, you know, through a lot throughout my twenties when I wasn't doing well and working on music and striving and trying to make something of it. I was living in her, living with her, you know. So yeah, we were it was it was comfortable enough. We weren't we weren't rolling in it, but we were. It was comfortable.

I started there. And uh yeah, things, you know, different things were popping up back east, not big opportunities, but enough. It was the only I did have no opportunities then, so it was the only thing. So after being out there there for like six months or something like that, things started popping up. So I started flying home for a weekend here and there to go do a gig or or do an opportunity and one of them. You know.

During that time, it started playing with Trevor again and started you know, putting together what was the earliest formations of this of this band. But it actually wasn't the main thing I was focusing on at that point. But as time went on, it it just it became it became the main thing.

did lose myself there kind of both times. The first time I went it was I was coming out of the experience of all that loss, So it was it's kind of it's a pretty loaded thing. I can't really be objective about that at all because I was just like I was fried. I was in total shock and had no idea of what like where I was at and how how you know, how smoked I had gotten

by all that. But when I went back, when I when I went back prior to that, I had I had really found after the that previous band that I started with Matt, after that band broke up, I really started writing again because when I, you know, when I when I moved out to Colorado, I was at I was working at a taco place, and I was at that point where I was really thinking about, you know, can I stop pursuing music? Can I stop thinking about this as like the thing that I need to do.

That was the closest I've ever come to thinking about it in that way, because I was always just naive about it. I was like, yeah, there's this is what I'm doing. There's no there's no other way for me. But that was the closest I had come to that. I was working at this taco place and thinking about, you know, about giving up, I guess, and you know, giving up didn't look like I was never going to stop playing and working on you know, writing and things

like that. But you know, the notion of not thinking about it as the career, you know, That's that was where I was at during that time. And I think that that being at that point where I was no longer trying to force something, I was no longer trying to make something out of, you know, I was I was kind of like at the end of my rope, so to speak. You know, I was I was lost,

and and UH had had nothing going for me. And that was when I started actually writing again because it was it was for me, you know, it was it was, it was honest, and and it was because I just had to. It was like when you're left with nothing, then all of a sudden, you get you start getting the real stuff, you know, And that was what happened

for me. So, you know, for for a year or two, maybe a little more, I was writing a lot and a lot of this stuff that was you know, the formation or the foundation for this band was written during that time, and other things that I have never really recorded or put out there. So there was there was like that, and that thread was continuing to grow. It

was growing and growing. There was a lot of unfinished ideas from that from that time that I still have like strong feelings about and still intend to finish someday. But yeah, when I went back to Berkeley, that that that well dried up pretty quickly. You know. When I first started, there was so many ideas and so many things I was working on, and then within six months to a year, that flow had kind of stopped, and I was I was pretty deep in the course load.

I mean, it was also we uh, we were starting this band. We recorded the first record, and I was, I was working on that a lot. We went up and did basics. We rented out a a cabin in New Hampshire and just brought all our own gear, and someone an engineer at a Look studio came and recorded with us and and and helped produce, and you know, we had we had basics and kind of sat on those

for a while. And then, uh, during that time when I was in school, I was, I was, I didn't even have a place up in Boston, so I was driving. I was like commuting to Boston for a minute to go to classes from Connecticut, which was crazy, and so I was I was kind of on the weekends working to working on overdubs, working on you know, editing and you know doing d I Y finishing this record and then uh, you know midweek was driving to Boston and uh,

crashing on people's couches. But if I had like, you know, three days of classes in a row, and you know, it was just too much to drive that many hours back and forth every day. So that was. Yeah, it was kind of kind of a crazy time, and the creative flow got got pretty burnt up during then, and it was the struggle to get it back.

a really great teaching gig. But they weren't they're not like passionate about teaching a little bit of that thing of like I'm just really good at this, Like I this, you know, I worked hard and I'm I'm amazing at what I do and if you can't do it, then like I don't know that kind of just sucks for you. And you know some people who were doing it because it was it was a good job, and then you know some people who were engaged and passionate about it,

but more entrenched in some rule set. You know. I had that probably that that experienced most. I studied jazz performance and classical composition and studying like, I wanted to learn counterpoint. I wanted to learn what, you know, the wheels, like what what made the wheels turn in classical music on some levels, which is obviously an incredibly deep rabbit hole and it's like a completely different world. But I started getting into that, and uh, you know that that's

where the rule set is really in place. You know, that's there's there's like that that's like that's that's there's a lot of rules there. And I wasn't. I like, got really bad grades in some of those classes because I was, you know, breaking the rules. And I was like, but like, this is you know, this is an idea, this is this is my that is the four part harmony thing that I wrote. He's like, yeah, but it's just wrong, It's all right, And he was probably right

on some on some degree. You know, it wasn't Maybe it wasn't that great, but you know, so there there's a bit of that. But you know they're the thing. The thing about all that I think the best the best musicians, Well this you can't. You can't say that because there's you know, West, here's West Montgomery who didn't, as I understand it, didn't know anything about music theory or anything like that. And was you know, wrote the book on a whole a whole way of approach to

playing there. So you can't make these generalizations. But seemingly a lot of people, you know that. The thing is, like you you have to learn the rules so that you break them. You know, when when you break them, you you ah have a much deeper understanding of why you're breaking them, you know. So yeah, no, one way.

thing like that, we just weren't get at it. So when we got a booking agent. We were like, you know, let's go hit, let's hit the wheels, and and uh, just get us out there. We want to play, we want to play a million gigs, we want to tour. And he was, you know, he was, he was great, he was he was like, you kind of don't want to do that, and we were like, yeah, we do. He's like, all right, if you say so. And he

threw us out there and we, uh. The tour. The tour that year has been commonly referred to as the Thrown to the Wolves tour because he was like, I'm gonna throw you to the wolves, and we're like, let's go. And he did, and we were thrown to the wolves and we were like, oh, got it. Okay, we need to we need to we need to rethink this whole thing.

reasons everyone in the band. So we just had a lot to learn at that point, and it was it was necessary because of that, you know, just getting our asses kicked like that, and Trevor, Trevor and I there were many nights when we were out there just like what how do people do this? What is like? This is crazy? How to like where do we go? Like how do what is? What is what is this? What the what the fuck are we doing? And then you know, we'll just to.

covered gas for you know, however many shows. So yeah, no, it was it was weird. There was there was very there was to your question, your original question. There was nothing in that time, you know, pointing towards any hope or success there. But it didn't. It was like it was, I guess in retrospect it was crazy, but like I was that stubborn and they were like, no, we just got to just keep going, keep trying. There's got to

be a way, you know. So you know, you know, we made we made changes and things evolved, and uh, you know kind of found found our way to a better dynamic within the band at least, you know, like a better one, a more functional one where we were more connected and and uh, you know, when Peter joined the band, he understood more of you know, he understood what we were, what we were trying to do, and he was coming from the same place like the he had.

He was coming from that that like you know, yeah, I play music with my friends and my parents' basement because that's because that's really fun and that's like what we're trying to do, and it's just a it was like a it was more of more of more of that energy that of the original why you know what

I mean, why why you do it? Instead of like some other energy of like I want to be on stage in front of lots of people and like in the industry and getting good looks and all the things that come with that's it, you know, those things are there's there's cool parts to all of that, but it's I don't know, not it's not what what I'm in

it for, you know. And as time goes on and just become less and less interested in that side of things and just want to, you know, be more and more connected to the core of of the why of it all and uh okay experience.

point was the beginning of twenty eighteen. That was in my you know, for all intents and purposes, that was the turning point in terms of us kind of getting our getting our act together. Peter joined the band, and he was he was kind of, you know, a driving force in the band that he was in prior to that, and him and I just started working together a lot.

And prior to that, I hadn't really had that like someone on the front lines in that in that same way you know, Trevor and I were working on things all the time. But yeah, it did. Peter kind of had this this like workhorse vibe and kind of day to day which is like was you know, was making sure all the recordings got the soundboard recordings, were We're

getting getting done, and he started getting into video. He learned how to edit video and and really really quickly and well so and him and I just were on the same wavelength of like thinking about creating a world really, you know, because it ties into like the branding and all of that, but really it's that the branding is in my mind, has always been just a vehicle to

create a feeling. And when he first joined the band, we had already had this opportunity to go open for this band, Stafford, who at that time was like on fire, like really they were having this big moment crushing and their tour was so intense and they were playing maybe you know, it was like five hundred to fifteen hundred cap venues, which felt and they were like full, all of them were slammed, which was way bigger than anything that we had done to that point, and it felt

the energy around it was so is so intense, and we were opening for them. We opened them for them for seven shows in January of twenty eighteen, right when Peter joined the band, he barely played keyboards.

an extremely valuable experience and we started doing that. You know, we started working on the website and like, what is what kind of feeling does the website have, you know when you when you go on there, does it feel

like some kind of immersive thing? You know? And then filling out our catalog and filling out you know, show recordings, soundboard recordings for people to listen to, videos for people to watch on YouTube, which ended up being really really the thing that in you know, outside of the music and all of the chemistry and all the things we were working on in that regard the the building the content world online was was really what it was. It was just an extremely necessary thing for the way that

we got to the place that we got to. So yeah, that was that was really that was really the thing.

And you know that that experience we got a taste of that energy of like people coming to shows and rapidly you know, and consuming and like looking for looking for something to be you know, experienced or found on stage, something unique and something you know, happening in real time and and and real you know, and like later that year there was a there was I think we got our our first taste in our own respect of a very very long winded answer your question, I apologize for that,

but our first taste of that in our own, you know, respective world was a few months after that, we did a tour out to Colorado and we played, uh, you know, same same deal, status quo, ton of you know, shady gigs that no one came to, no one cared about us, but we had We had this one gig booked on the way out to Colorado, and then two weeks later, on the way back from Colorado in Covington, Kentucky, and this one this one guy who had like there was

a crew of friends that lived there, but they're really they lived in Cincinnati, but they went to shows in Covington, Kentucky's right over the right over the river. And this one guy listened to our saw we were on the schedule this at this club, the Octave in Covington and listened to it, like, found our album, listen to it, liked it, spread it around to his friends. They all

listened to it. They learned some of the songs, and you know, maybe there was ten twelve of these people, of these kids that came to this show totally unexpectedly, and you know, we just played expecting another you know, shit gig on a Tuesday night in Covington, Kentucky where no one was there, and here are these twelve kids who like know the lyrics to some of our songs and are just throwing there brings so much energy, like they're having a great time, and it's just kind of

us in them. It was like this really intimate thing and for us that was like that was amazing. So we you know, fortunately, uh we like we were coming back to the same place two weeks later, and they,

I guess the word spread. They they talked to more people around town, the word spread more, and we came back and there were like one hundred people there and the energy was awesome and we you know, we threw down and and it was it was kind of this like, oh wow, one hundred people came to actually to kind of to see us, and then I think three months later there or four months later that year, we went back in June and did two nights at that club and it was sort of sold out, and we felt

like we were on top of the world doing two nights of this this this little club, and it was it was it was like our first taste of of of that kind of thing at all, you know. And then we kept touring and playing other places and we're you know, in other areas for all intents and purposes,

went back to playing shit gigs for no one. But then, you know, throughout that year in the early twenty nineteen, gradually saw you know, we sold like sold one hundred tickets in Buffalo, you know at the door, and like that was a huge win for us. We were like, oh, all right, great, another one, another place where people know who we are and are coming like some people are

coming to a show. That was a big deal because it wasn't there was no there was no label, there was no like our music wasn't being consumed in that way at all. It was it was all just our only hope was the grassroots thing, you know, at least

as far as we were aware. So then you know, gradually we got we got more some more festival stuff, more opening gigs for you know, opening for other bands like Pigeons playing ping pong and bands like that, and you know, throughout twenty eight the latter end of eighteen and into twenty twenty nineteen, first half of twenty nineteen, they felt like the pressure, the pressure points were just

getting hit more and more. You know, we were just in the flow with it and doing doing these things and could feel could feel the needle moving a little bit, but not not crazy substantial. After that, you know, the experience in Covington and stuff, it was, you know, it was a kind of us flow flow role for the most part. And then you know that summer, the real turning point was the Peach Peach Festival in twenty nineteen.

There was a lot of hype around the set. We played the set, and you know, we kind of gotten used to like playing these festival sets, which like back in the day, you know, I had this like really naive mentality around it, like, oh, we'll play this festival set and like it's really things are going to really change after that, like all of a sudden, people who will know who we are, will come to shows and stuff, and I got I had gotten so used to that

not being the case, you know, thinking that the needle was going to move, and then it didn't. So we played that gig and there was hype around and I was like, oh, that's cool. A lot of people were there, you know, it was pretty packed. And then we put out the video from that set like really quickly after it, as we kind of had gotten used to doing at that point, and I didn't think that much like it was, you know, it was a big moment. It felt like

a lot of hype. It was pretty stressed about it, but then we just did it and I didn't think too much of it, and it didn't realize, you know, that was that was going to be as much of a catalyst as it was, or as much of a breaking point as it was. You know. The video kind of started getting shared a lot online and and then there was this sort of viral thing. I guess that

happened with like fish Twitter. Everyone was like doing meme, like joking with sending all these memes around about goose jokes, and people thought it was a joke but then ended up going and checking out the band, So it kind of just h it kind of just erupted by there. And then by the by that fall, the fall tour was was pretty much totally sold out all the little clubs we had booked and stuff like that. People were just buying tickets and then it kind of just kind of just grew from there.

do well in the under those circumstances. Especially, I mean I for sure can't, and maybe other people can't, but like that, I just not a recipe for for doing your best work, you know, So we slowed down, well,

you know, the world slowed down. We because of the momentum we had at that point, we just kind of instinctively we didn't stop working, but the fact of you know, the nature of just sleeping at home for the bulk of that year and being in one place and going for walks in the woods every day in conjunction with the things we were working on. We finished a record we were that was taking us forever to work on. I was doing all the editing myself, and it was I was just laboring over it way more than I

should have. And you know, that gave us the opportunity to finally finish that thing, which was you know, important for us. And you know, we were just cranking out videos, live streams and working on that and trying to make make those things interesting and and different. You know, there's we did all these live streams in the spring of that year and had gotten like a really good response from a lot of them. The way we were doing them,

it felt kind of alive. We had people on on like handicams and moving and it was kind of dynamic, and it felt felt interesting, and you know, we put a lot of energy into that and trying to make those as cool as we could, and then summer rolled around, and you know, our managers were like, all right, we're gonna everyone's doing tours, virtual tours, and you know that sounded really like boring to me. It was just kind of like, we're we're all just gonna keep doing what

we're doing. Just just do more and more videos of us playing kind of the same mute, same songs in the same room over and over again. That you know, what makes touring. You know, you're you're in different places, playing to different people, so it it you know, it doesn't get as it doesn't get as redundant because of that. So it just felt like like a like a really

redundant thing. So that that kind of triggered us to to think to try to think about it in a different way and make it compelling and add some element to it that was more interactive and uh and more engaging, I guess, and and and more and more immersive. So we, uh, you know, we did this bingo tour thing, which is which is you know, turned the entire how many of every many shows it was into a bingo game and everyone had cards and it was it was we they functional.

We had our own TV channel for like two weeks, which we really ran with. We had we built up all different kinds of kinds of content. We had people doing videos walking them through like whatever. If someone had in our community here had a farm in the backyard, you know, we did a video of them walking through the farm. Or we did like yoga videos or or

cooking classes and all kinds of stuff. We were just cranking content through this thing, and we were all just in this area and being really creative and coming up with ideas and having a lot of fun. And it was a really really special time. So I think they're doing all these things. It was a special like it was a special time, a special opportunity, I guess because the world had just you know, stopped, everyone had slowed down. And you know, if that happened now, we probably would

use it as a opportunity. I mean maybe to do the same I don't know, but but you know it would it would be at a very different point because it would be like, all right, I'm going to slow down and like write, I'm going to write a lot. And I think probably a lot of people did that, but for where we were, it was like we were we were in a place to be just turning and burning, and we did and it ended up I guess, you know,

it reached a lot more people. Somehow, it just continued to grow through all of that, and then we started doing the drive in shows and doing doing whatever we could, whatever was whatever people were doing, whatever was coming you know, coming up, we were we just didn't stop working, and you know it seemed to work.

I guess, you know, the shows just kept getting bigger, and uh, you know, in a lot of ways, it was it was tough to it. It's a challenge, you know, being on that kind of wave and keeping up with it and meeting meeting the expectations that other people, that everyone has and that you have on yourself in in that type of opportunity. It's it's you know, it's not easy. So you know, I think we throughout all of that.

It's just it continued to grow, and you know, there's a huge the adaptation process to that from a production standpoint was was a huge challenge as well. You know, we we didn't we were like playing clubs. We didn't know how to how to graduate into these bigger things, and there was like a massive learning curve with that, you know, big time crew and and how to how to go into these bigger rooms and actually do it right. And you know that's uh, we we did the best

we could. You know, we were we were just doing our best through that that period. And also, like I said earlier, you know, twenty twenty one, I crashed out again. I was I was you know, I was hanging out by a thread for a lot of that time. So it was, you know, we were just we were doing doing the best we could with what we had.

You know, that was massive. And then you know, during that time, during that fall, I remember, we put up we had we had gotten we just started working with our current agents and they they were like, we want to put up two shows in New York, one in Brooklyn,

one Manhattan in January of twenty twenty. And they did and they and we were like, well they were both six hundred cap rooms and they were there was like back to back rooms, back to back nights, and we were like whoa, Like that seems way aggressive, but maybe one of those, you know, but there's no but like two that's no one, you know, it's gonna we're gonna take a bath. It's not no one's gonna come, you know.

And they put them up and they both sold out in like a second, and we thought there was The initial reaction was like there's there's you know, there's must be something wrong with the website. You know, but yeah, so that they ended up cooking really hot, and you know, I think the attendance was just kind of that once that that fire starts, the buzz and all of that, it kind of just it kind of just kept going.

You know that that spring, these all they all got canceled because of COVID, but you know, I think we had rooms rooms like thousand to fifteen hundred kind of zone booked, and I think they were all sold out.

So it was kind of on that trajectory. And then you know, by fall of twenty twenty, we started doing those driving things and it was like, you know, selling two thousand of these driving kind of show tickets and things like that, and I don't know, the numbers of it all just just kind of get gets fuzzy, but it, you know, it's always an up and down kind of thing,

always till to this day. You know, there's there we play some really big shows and then there's some places where they're not as big, you know, but the yeah, it was it was just a lot of growth for years after that. I mean, the numbers kind of just continued to grow.

was one. I mean, it was just insane that that that happened. I just still don't understand, you know, I still like there's there's a certain degree of dissociation that has to for me, that has to happen in order to just like show up to those things. And when that's it's like, Okay, this is happening. Cool, you know, it doesn't feel real to me on some level, but it's just it's happening, so you just will go do it and try our best, you know, do our best.

But yeah, so that was I think that was that was obviously a massive moment for us in so many ways and the momentum at that time, I'm it was it was just crazy. And you know, after that kind of those things just kept kept happening. But that that that year felt like the turning point as far as that stuff is concerned.

we're excited to keep doing. And and the things that that feel authentic and exciting and unique, you know that that's that's those are the kinds of things that that really fill up the well. You know, we're doing a we started doing we did the first year of a Destination festival in in Cabo last year, so we're you know doing that again this year and is a really special place and really special experience and you know kind of uh, we kind of did this once before, but

it was a very last minute thing. This is kind of the first time we've we've put ourselves in the in the situation to be working on a lineup and having people come to a thing and and and uh kind of hosting in that way. And it's it's really fun, and it feels really good, and it feels really good to be you know, having having other artists there and that that we that we love and and you know, look up to and and uh love love just you know, collaborating with and and and you know, getting to be

peers with. So you know, that's that's a pretty special thing. Continue to work on that. Our our you know, our event every December Goose Miss. We uh, you know, we try to make that special every year and come up with new ways to to think about that and approach that and just like you know many other people in our world have done. But you know, finding our own our own ways into these things and our own our own spin and you know, the way our our energy

can can bring it to some some different place. It's it's it's a fun process. But yeah, mostly I just want to keep writing music.

I think, catch up to it in different ways. But I see I see so much, so much more, runway, so much more. Like That's why when it's it's like kind of what's next, it's like, I want to just keep getting better out where we are, you know. It's it's not thinking about the next the next biggest venue or the next you know, most tickets we can sell. It's just like I just want to continue to be able to show up more and more to to where we are and what we have, you know. That's that's

the thing that that feels relevant. I guess yeah, I think it's a combination of both. It's like, you know, I think hopefully we arrive more and more each each month, you know, each day, but it still feels surreal for sure. There's still like you know, playing the garden again. It feels like, you know, because we're not we're not part of the mainstream world in that way in so many ways. You know, Uh, it doesn't, it doesn't. It feels like it's like a like a you know, it's like some

cheat code or something. We're just like in our own little universe. And and if I think about, you know, comparing or competing with the broader thing, it's it's it's just like, oh, thank god, we don't have to do that because we're just in our own little universe over here. You know.