Richard Griffiths

got it. Uh, Rob string On, Lucien Grange. Okay, you know in today's world, are you impressed that you got it? Does it mean something to you? Um, it's very flattering. I think it's Uh in a way, I feel it's an acknowledgement that management is now somebody something that needs more respect than maybe it has been given in the past by the industry. Because we are the first managers ever to receive the award. Um so i I although it's been given to Harry and me, um, as far

as we're concerned, we're collecting it on behalf of managers. Okay, Now, you used to be an executive. What's the difference between working at the label or in publishing and being on the management side. As a manager, we are involved in

every aspect of the artist's career um. And that means obviously in helping them get a record deal, getting the right air and our person helping to make sure the right record is being made, then making sure it's being marketed properly, uh, and then getting the right agent to book the right tours and the right gigs for them to take their music out live. Um, the right publicists, the right publisher. So we as managers are in the

epicenter of everything that goes on with an artist. Whereas a record company guy may only be involved in a and R ng the record, he may only be involved in a and R ing in in marketing that record, maybe only in a certain territory. Um. And the manager is the one person who is involved in in every aspect, including um, the health and welfare of the artist, which is obviously an incredibly important part of our job. Now we can really put the demarcation his napster the turn

of the century. Now what a manager used to be, in what a label used to be have flipped right? Yes, well in in uh, you know, I was lucky to be you know, running a major American record label in the glorious nineties where you know, quite frankly, if you farted, you went gold, you know. Um, And so all the all the money and all the influence really did come from the record companies. There were still great managers around,

you know. I mean I had to deal with Sharon Osborne on a regular basis, who I love dearly and who I learned an incredible amount from, uh, Roger Davis who does pink Um and many other great artists. Bill Kurbishly, you know, behind the who I mean when I when I when I said Virgin and did a couple of records with Roger Adultery. Um, I came across Bill Kurbishly and I and I learned there was definitely a different

way of doing things. Well, give me an example. Um. It was just the great thing I found working with those managers was that they believed that they knew better of what was the right thing for their artists, and I believed in them sufficiently to go along with that. Um, there were managers that I would deal with whom I didn't think were necessarily on top of it, and so

we would we would take much more control in those days. Uh, but I think that, as I said, the role of manager has just continued to grow and become more and more important. Okay, how hard is it to break a record today as a posed to years past? Um, it's it's it's different. Um, it's it's a longer process. And UM, I think we are certainly seeing sitting from a from a British point of view, where for a long time British artists would be successful in the UK and then

that would travel around the world quite easily. Uh, if you have the right people in the right place. Um. Obviously, now with the streaming and the predominance in America particularly you know of hip hop and rapp and everything that, that doesn't that that makes it harder for newer British artists to break in Having said that, you know, Lewis Capaldi is going to be the biggest new artist of the year and that's in the UK. Do you think it's going to happen in the US? I'm absolute it

because it hasn't happened yet. It will happen here, I have no doubt about that. Well, I think that he he's an incredible artist and he the songs are absolutely brilliant. I'll declare a vested interest here. My son in law did co write the Absolute smash? Well, you don't have to worry about stopping your daughter money. Well there you go. Um. But and he's an incredible character and I think that plays out and you know in the way that that

ed Sharon and Nadele. You know, these incredible characters that that have have reached beyond just their music, you know. But you know you're still going to have British artists breaking, there's no doubt about that. It's just a longer, longer process, and it's a longer process for everybody, and particularly on

a worldwide basis. On the one hand, you have it great that you put your music out on a Friday and then it is available to anybody in the world to hear it, so that is one of the great advantages. On the other hand, you have to get out there and make sure that they're getting the opportunity to hear it, you know, Okay, other than Louis Capaldi. Even though we're recording this while you're in Los Angeles a couple of months before, people will hear it contemporaneous with when you

were reserving this receiving this award. Um, anybody else we should be looking out for. Um okay, okay, let's uh, let's switch it up then. Okay, so presently on your roster, who do we have? Uh? Well, nal Horren, who's a member of One Day and you were the manager of One Direction? Yes, yeah, um, and they may have alms. How kameoly Morris hasn't broken in America? Um I um, I'm not sure that he was right for America. Maybe it's a bit too bit too British but to English.

Um uh. And I think that um yeah, Little Mix we also have and they have never really done it here, and that I actually do I put pretty firmly on the table of the labels promotion department because that band deserves to be bigger here. You know, we we supported Ariana Grande with Little Mix a couple of years ago, and you know there were fifteen thousand people in the in the Arenas and and twelve thousand of them were

singing the words to every single Little Mix song. And I would turn to various Colombia folk present and you know, give them an exasperated um. But you know, because a Little Mix are are you know, absolutely massive in the UK and very very successful in other parts of the world. UM. Five seconds of Summer who obviously have done incredibly well here um and and do very well around the world. You know, we have a we have a very broad

UM roster. You know, we still look after Alison Moyer, who most people in American from YEAZ but she's been incredibly successful in the UK and in Europe and Australia and as a solo artist for thirty years now and we've representative for for the past fifteen years. UM. We still represent Paul Potts in fact, who was the original winner of Britain's Got Talent and people forget that that James Cordon played Paul Potts in the movie of his Life.

James tries to forget anyway, we still represent him and he does like eight gigs and on the world every year, you know. UM. So you know, we like we're proud of the fact that we have a broad rostrum. We're proud of the fact that we have worked with a lot of these artists for a long time. And how many people worked from artists uh worldwide it's about uh forty four and where are those people? You say, world one well, mainly in London, but we were in New York we have a couple, and in l A we

have like four. We're just adding more of fact, we're for going to be six soon here and then we have one in Sydney and Australia. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. How did you get into music as a little pup um? Well, because the great thing in in England was that there was radio radio stations that that everybody was listening to, and they were very broad stations. Um, and I just used to listen to the radio a lot, and I just became a okay, well just for those

of the Americans were listening. We really don't know that much. So how many BBC radio channels were there? Well, well, and in those days they were probably three or four, you know, and now and then then and but the other great thing that we had in England was pirate radio.

When did pirate radio hit The pirate radio really hit the scene in about sixty five sixty six, I think, And that was just when I was starting to get into music, and and and I was living with my my mother and my parents are divorced, and I would listen and live with my mother and she would go out to work, and so I would I and in the holidays I would just listen to the radio stations under the pillow and until two in the morning when

they turned off Radio London and Radio Caroline. And then and then there was this other station called Radio Luxembourg fabulous two oh eight um, and that that was just where you got to hear every kind of music you could you could think of. And then when Radio one came along for um for the BBC, when they got

rid of the pirate stations. Radio one has always been incredibly broad so you would you would you would hear Jimmy Hendrix, the Four Tops and Dusty Springfield one after the other, um on on Radio one in in and so you you you found that Brits generally have a far broader um sense of sense of different music. I think. Okay, so you started buying records, So I started buying records. Yeah. The first single I Have a ort I was reached

out I'll be there by the Four Tops. Well, I know you're a big fan of the fourte Levi's stubs is the greatest, uh. And then the first two albums I bought were was Sergeant Pepper. Uh, and the first Vanilla Fudge album. You know, first one was great with of course they hit you get You, keep Me hanging On and take Me for a little while. I bought the second album because I love the first one so much. It was terrible. The Beagle's Hard Yeah that actually if

funny enough. Something made me think of Vanilla eventually the other day. So one of the great things about Spotify. I went on Spotify and I listened to This is Vanilla Fudge for about two hours. You know, I don't need to go back, probably for a few more years. But um, you know, I that just sort of all of that just made me a fan. You know, And I've never I've never been a musician. I've never There's

not an ounce of frustrated musician in me. Um. I just I just love love music and being lucky that I've been able to to work with it. Okay, so you're in high school. Tell us about your experience there. Well, ah, there,

So I did pretty terribly at school. Um. And what had happened was, um, in the fifth year, which which I can remember what year that would be, So that would that would so when I was fifteen, Uh, you you took a set of exams called O levels and and then and then the next year you sort of there were no exams and that was scored the lower six years, So that was sort of the year where everybody us doss around doing nothing. And then in the upper six year is when you took your A levels

to go onto university. So at the end of the fifth year I got made the secretary of the jazz club. I was a school in a place called Abingdon, near near Oxford, and in those days used to go up to Ronnie Scott's once a term to see people play. And so I decided, well we're not going to go to Ronnie Scott's. I'm going to bring the artists down to to play at the school. This is a boarding school, boarding school, well actually it was. It was one third

boarding school, two thirds day boys and yourself. You was a boarding school. And this is how far from London? It's an hour? Yeah, um, we'll just stopped for a second. The jazz club, were they really into jazz, Well that was that was sort of what they how they got away with going up to London once a term to see jazz. Yeah, I mean we mean somebody rich. And we saw um Dick Hextel Smith. I can't remember no

other really great people. But anyway, I brought I brought, I brought in cars Nucleus down to the to the local town, into the local well a little bit slower. You're going on a boarding school. How do you even make that happen? Who do you call? What happens? Okay? Well I had I had started going to a place called the eighteen thirty two Club in Windsor, which was, you know, ten minutes from where I lived. And I got friendly with a guy called Andrew Kilderry who booked

the two club. And uh, so I have this idea that I want to start bringing concerts on and so I ring Andrew and and he and he books the band you know, for I think it was forty quid or something in those days. And and I managed to get the school to agree to pay everything up front, and and that the tickets would then go on on the accounts of the boys, so that would then be

paid for by the parents. That's how I anyway, I managed to get away with that, and so I so the first one with Nucleus worked quite well, so that that was in the school time. So then I thought, okay, well look at in the holidays coming up, why don't I put on a couple of concerts and the holidays. So at that time I was really getting into Prague and Egg. I don't know if you've ever heard of I remember they've never really made anything you ever made

it anywhere? Really, But anyway, I was a huge Egg fan. So I decided to put on Egg in the in the local town hall, and which I did, and uh made eight pounds, um, so that was reasonable. So I then so if you're making a pound, how many people are coming at what price? About three or four hundred people? That's pretty good. At god, it was seven and six, which which is about thirty fifty cents really um. Anyway, so I then put on another one with if who are on island, and I had to pay them more.

I can remember what I had to pay them, and it was it was it was selling badly, and luckily I I got a call from from Andrew Kilderry's saying that the band couldn't do the gig, so and he had Bloodwind Pig sorry the Mick Abrams band. It was Cabron's band before he became Bloodwind Pig so and they were about a third of the price of of of if and so actually I got away with it, so

but that was I then decided that was enough. So I then started doing them with Andrew in Oxford town Hall, which is like a capacity With the first one we put how far is that from your school? It's about twenty minutes by past. So, Um, what did he need you for? Because he he was booking various places, various town halls, right and and so so we um uh were I was sort of acting as an agent for him as a you know, as a local promoter, right, and we put on Genesis at at Oxford town Hall.

Now how much a Genesis cost I can't remember, but I can tell you who's money. That was Andrew's. Andrew's money. Um, I'm taking ten percent. How big is ours return? It's about anyway. Um, we've sold about three hundred tickets, so we're losing our shirt, right, but the but the hall is completely rammed full. And Tony Smith, who you know is the managers still is the manager. You know. It came down because we're crying off saying we haven't got money to pay him, and he said, yeah, but the

fucking alls full, you know, what do you mean? What do you mean? And of course because we didn't have any cash, I hadn't hired any securities, so all these people had just come in through the through the doors. So there were twelve people there, but only three hundred of them had paid. So that was the end of

that one. That My other big mistake was I was putting on Arthur Brown's Kingdom come in in Newbury Town Hall and I go around with the mate plastering posters all around Newbury, you know, for Arthur Brown's king didn't come coming to play. And after I put on the last one, some old geezers stops me and he says, so you know, what's this? What's this gig? And I said, it's Arthur Brown's Kingdom Come and they're coming, They're coming to play. And he says, yes, but when are they

coming to play? And I looked at the post of and we've forgotten to put the date on. So I guess I worked out quite early on. I wasn't wasn't cut out to be a promoter. Okay, two things, how did that gig? Do? We canceled it? Yeah? And why where did this entrepreneurial spirit come from. Um, that's a very good question. I don't really know the answer to that because my father was in the army, um, and my my mom just you know, would do jobs whatever you had to do to make to make a living.

But so anyway, I'm at school, you know. So was there enough money to do and buy what you wanted to do before you became a promoter? Um? No, we were never There was never much money around. I mean I got a I got a grant to go to the to the school, you know, but it was it was the combat. But it was a combination of things, you know, how things happen. So I would I'd learned a bit about promoting concerts. So I was doing that. I'm playing a lot of cricket. Who are you a

good cricket player at that time? I was, yeah, thinking of going professional or just enjoy just enjoying it. So, I mean we watched the cricket matches go on for like days. So you say you play a lot of cricket. I mean, as kids, we would walk down to the park. What is playing a lot of cricket look like? Well, try explaining to an American that a cricket match and last for five days ending a draw, and yet be

a great game of cricket. They cannot understand that at all, in the same way as baseball can sometimes be something that goes on forever until somebody HiT's the final. But but you've had a good time going to a baseball match, you know. Anyway, a combination of those things and sort of being madly in love with the head girl at the local girls school. Um My, my A level results

were well, let's put it this way. So the night before I'm supposed to take my Economics A level, I go and see my economics teacher and I say, whose nickname is Doze? Doze Milton? I say, Mr Milton, you and I know I'm not going to pass this exam. I don't want to fail it. I just don't want to take it. So he says, Okay, go in and then after half an hour leave and then I'll just roll your paper so it will be that you you

never took the exam. So that's great. Anyway. Four weeks later I take English and History A level, and four weeks later my A level of Arts come in and I've got two d's. Okay, this is a disaster. But I rang a guy called Tony Bowman who I shared a study with, and I said, Tony, can you believe it, I've got two d's. I'm going to get them to remark my English a level. And he said, but Richard, you didn't read any of the books, which was effectually

correct statement. So there I was, you know, with two d's. You know, everybody's piste off. All my family are all piste off of me because I haven't done any work. But actually my my mom is married again by then, and so I do a deal with my mom my stepdad that um, I want to try again into the music business and if it doesn't work after a year, I'll go back to Polytechnic and retake my exams and go and become a you know, a bookkeeper or something,

you know. So I when i'd been promoting these concerts through with Andrew Killderry, but I had I'd come across other agents, so I just wrote, because this is in days of writing letters, I wrote to the number of agents that I've done some business with them. One of them called me up and he said, can you come

up and have an interview? A guy called Dave Winslet, and he was at an agency called the Terry King Associates, and he said that just so happens that one of our guys is leaving, why didn't you come up and you know, let's do a month's trial and see how it is. I go up and I start doing that, and I'm booking caravan, and I'm booking Southern Comfort, and I'm booking in all Desmond Decker and all that. And because in those days, every student union in and every

college had had gigs going on. I mean, there were just hundreds of gigs going on every week. And so they handed me the student union handbook and they said, okay,

just cool. Started a at aberrast with university and work your way through it and so our X. So my first day, I I started aberrast with university and I get as far as St. Andrew's University when I finally sell them Southern Comfort, not with Ian Matthews, by the way, so I slightly condom there, but anyway, but so I I sold them for you know, fifty quid or whatever.

And anyway, one thing led to another and I and I started and then the office that I was in was in ward Or Street and the Marquee Club was in Wardoor Streets. So every night I would go down to the Marquee Club and I would watch all the bands. And that's when I that's when I first started to realize that I had an ear for picking bands. And I signed My first act as an agent was Eddie and the Hot Rods, who were on this the sort of pre punk thing that there was going on at

that time. And and so an Eddie and Hot Rods, Uh, you know, we're hot, you know. UM and I then I'd met a guy UM who managed um John Martin and a number of other Island acts, and so he asked me to to represent h John Martin UM and here and I fall formed a company called Headline Artists and UM. I then started looking at doing lots of other things with with Ireland and and what happened was that that I then got offered this job at Ireland Records to sort of be an artist liaison guy, to

to work with managers and agents and the artists. Now, before we get much further, tell the story when you were an agent and the backstreet Crawler story, etcetera. Okay, so, uh so um John managed Paul Kossof and Backstreet Crawler, and uh so I was, I was there agent so and obviously Paul Kossof had been a major star out

of Free. So we're booked this arena tour with Backstreet Crawler and I'm looking for a support act and this Australian guy comes in to see me and he he plays me this band of his from Australia called A C d C. And I just flip out, and you know, I just think they're incredible. So I get John to let me put them on the Backstreet Crawler tour. And um, then a few months later, UM, the band A C d C Are flying in from from Adelaide to to

start the Backstreet Crawler tour. And of course in those days, it took thirty six hours to fly from Adelaide to London, and during that time that the band were in the air, Paul tragically died of a heart attack, also on an aircraft. So I go down to Heathrow to meet Michael Browning and I say, Michael, a terrible, awful news. Poor Kassa has just died. So you know, there's no tour, and he said, for fox sake, don't don't say anything to

the band. You've got to get them a gig. So I managed to get them a gig two days later at a at a place called the Red Cow and Hammersmith, and I get them doing two forty five minutes sets for pounds. I still have this contract frame somewhere. And because no one there's no publicity for this, they're just they just I've just managed to get him on the gig somebody else that obviously pulled out. Anyway, I go down.

I go down to the gig. I've never seen them play live, and they come out and that there are like two men and a dog in the in the room, right, I mean, there's just nobody. But they come out and they do the all a C d C show and Angus is on Bond Scott's shoulders and then Angus Duck walks down the bar. It's the most incredible thing I have ever seen in my life. And they finished the forty five minutes set and that the two men and a dog leave, and I'm thinking, we've just seen the

second Coming of Christ here, you know what's going on? Anyway, half an hour later, the place is just rammed. Now there's no mobile phones, no internet, no nothing, right, God knows what had happened. Anyway, it's rammed. Now. I've told the story a hundred times, and you know, you as you tell stories, I'm sure we all do this, you embellish them in et cetera. But I was at my niece's wedding a couple of years ago and my brother in law said to me, God, Richard, do you do

you remember that a C d C gig? And I said, David, you tell me exactly what you remember. And he told the story exactly as I've just told you. And Harry he had come down with me to the gig. So that was that. That was an extraordinary, you know, once in a lifetime experience, you know. But I you know, I didn't have the experience for to to to carry on working with a C d C. Is I get I get fired as their agent. I didn't know anything

about Europe or anything like that. So but Michael and I the manager, and I remained good friends, and that had a they had a knock on effect in my career later on. But yes, so anyway, so I'm then, yes, I'm doing I'm now an island record. You're the liaison and and I started doing a bit of A and R. And the first band I signed as a bank called the jags Um who had one hit called I've Got your Number written on the back of my hand and I am determined one day to get someone to cover

it and make sure it's a proper hit. But anyway, I did that, and I'm I'm I'm working with John Martin and and then a band called the Buggles comes along and they had this track called video called Killed the Radio Star, and that you know, it goes on to be the first number one record that I was

ever involved with. And I've got I've got quite close to Chris Blackwell, and so Chris and offers me this gig working pretty much really as this sort of p are, you know, just sort of traveling around the world with him, helping him do stuff, you know, And there was an incredible experience, you know. And you know, I've got to go to Bob Marley sessions and I've been in negotiations without armored Rrigan and all this, and and Chris says to me, you know what I want. I want you

to run Island Records, but you're too young. And David Betteridge and Tim Clark, they're never going to accept. You know, I'm twenty five at this stage, never going to accept a young guy coming in. So what we're gonna do is, we're gonna we're gonna start a company together and you can run Basing Street studios and you'll sign artists and we'll we'll make this a success, and then I'll be able to bring you in to run Island. Great. Wow, fantastic,

he puts. He puts in some money, and he says, it's gonna it's a fifty fifty joint venture and it's called Peninsula Music as part of Ireland Records. Peninsula Music. You know, what have I done to deserve this? And so soon afterwards I go out to lunch with Brian Carr, who is the lawyer for the clash and the sex Pistols, and and of course in those days you used to drink at lunchtime and and and he says, Richard, what do you mean it's fifty fifty. It shouldn't be fifty fifty.

You're doing all the work. I mean twenty tho pounds he's putting in. What's that? That's nothing to Chris Blackwell, you know it should be it should be ninety ten to you. You know, it's crazy. You could go and tell him, go and change it, you know. So I go back to the office and Chris happens to be on the phone talking to one of the guys who worked for me, Danny Goodwin. So I get Chris on

the phone. I say, Chris, Chris, you know, I mean thinking about this, I'm not sure there should be fifty fifty really, you know, I think it should be you know, do you don't you think that's fair? And he says, you know what, Richard, You're right, it shouldn't be fifty, it should be a hundred zero. So I said, what do you what do you mean, Chris it should be a hundred zero? And he says, well, if you think it should be today, then one day you're going to

think it should be a hundred zero. So let's just cut straight to a hundred zero. The Lowyers are being touch goodbye. Plank puts the phone down and all I can all I can see before rushing before me, you know, David and Tim laughing, and finally we got rid of that fucker, and you know, blah blah blah. They're still great friends with my mother. Way Um, so I get on a plane and I fly to the Bahamas where he wasn't and Compass Point, which I've been too many times.

And I get to the Apple. I get to the airport and Compass Point and I ring Chris Compass Point Studios. I said, Chris, it's Richard. He said, where are you? I said, I'm just down at by the airport at the Pelican Beach or whatever it was called. So why are you there? And I said, because I've come to talk to you said, we've got nothing to talk about. I said, Chris, come on, We've we've got to talk about.

I've flown all the way out now. So um, he takes me out on a boat and he basically tries to scare the living daylights out of me with the driving over the pebble the rocks, and you know, he succeeds. I'm scared shitless, you know. Anyway, and he stops and he says, you know what, you've got to learn to be a much better negotiator, and uh, you know, we can be friends, but we're not going to be in business,

right So UM, I go to the airport. I have my Peninsula Music credit card, so I upgrade to first class for the first time ever, and and and fly home. And that was the end of Peninsula Music. So what do you do now you're out of a job. Well, I'm out of a job. I'm managing the Jags and

a few other things. And and that's and I this this uh young agent from from America called Bobby Brooks and Rob Light ring me up and tell me, tell me that they think the Jags are going to be the biggest thing since Ize Bread and and Chris is Chris has got me to meet Frank Barcelona and Barbara Skydell, and I just didn't really relate to them. I related to Bobby and to Rob. So I signed to Bobby

and Rob with the Jags. And then Barbara Skuydell sends me a a TELEX saying, we understand that you made this decision to go with Bobby Brooks and robbed Light. That's entirely, entirely you're right to make that decision, but it is our right to decide who we do business with. And please don't ever think of doing any more business with Frank and myself. Here at what was Premiere Premier talent, you know, and here's the most powerful agent in the

world basically telling me to funk off, you know. But anyway, there's a comeback on that story later, um and uh, I know obviously, I mean Rob Light, who has been one of my best friends and closest working associates ever since. You know. Anyway, things that shared. I go down my friend Michael Browning, who had met the ch C d C sends sends some your notes and come down to Australia and I'm gonna I'm starting this label. Come and work with me. Here, I had. I've been in Greece

on holiday. I've met this girl who I've fell madly in love with at first sight, Olivia. I find out that she is going down to Australia, so I decided to go down to Australia. And uh and Olivia comes down to Australia and and our pass cross and and here we we've been together the best part of four years since. Um I had also been managing a guy called John Fox who had been the lead singer and writer of Ultravox, and when the band broke up, um I made what would normally be the right decision of

going with the the lead singer and the writer. Obviously, Ultravox and went on to sell millions and millions of records without me. But anyway, that got me working with with Simon Draper at Virgin and and I'd been a Virgin in the agency world for a for a very short time. And uh, they ring me up and ask if I want to come and and run publishing company. So this is like one um so, so I leave Olivia in Australia and and and I and I go to to to a Virgin, you know, and of course Virgin.

That was just an incredibly exciting time. And you know, the Virgin was was just taking taking off really and the publishing company had already been very successful, um and and we just went on this incredible run of of signing you know, ABC and the Pet Shop Boys and Tears for Fears. I mean, we just had an incredible run of of success, um and and and Virgin Records was also having this incredible run of success. And Virgin

was just becoming this amazing place to be. And you had Richard Branson who had all these crazy ideas, you know, I mean, you know, let's let's start our own record company in in Germany, you know, and when nobody else was even thinking of doing it. And then Ken Berry, who was brilliant at making this stuff work, would make

it work. And then Simon Draper would find these incredible artists and and and one thing, you know, we we just there was a moment really through the eighties where we're just you know, everything we touched turned to gold. It was the most amazing time to to be with an incredible group of people. And it was just amazing excitement,

you know. Okay, and then you moved to a mirror with Virgin So then so then uh, uh we start a record company in America and they want someone to go and run the publishing company in America, and uh, Richard and ken and Simon persuade me to to go out to l A to to start the publishing company.

And um we then and that's the So the two guys who have been working with me at a Virgin Music was a guy called Danny Goodwin and has its on a Mere and we we all moved to to l A. And of course the publishing business in England was a very uh cutthroat, you know, very aggressive business. Um and when we moved to l A, we couldn't it was just it was just like you know, everyone one was half asleep, you know, it was you know, so people would be our for these deals and we

just think that they were they were nothing. So we just signed, signed, signed, and and and in our first year in America, we were the number one on Billboard. We were the number one charger company in the first year. Yeah, we signed all the writers who did that if you remember, Paula Abdel had that huge number of seven number ones

or whatever. And and of course things like tears, so fears were massively there, and the Patriot Boys were messive there, and Ozzy Osborne I had signed and anyway, we just went on this incredible run. And um, what also happened then was we've all been young guys growing up together. You know, we've all been you know, nobody had really made any money. We were just you know, we'd all

gone holiday together. That was. But then then we're getting to the age where you know, we're getting married, we're signed a families and so a slightly different perspective came along and and Virgin went public, um and uh, and

that wasn't very successful. So so that the options and everything that we've been given to to you know, be able to cash out, you know when it when the share price went on, that didn't really turn into anything because the public just couldn't you know, deal with with Virgin at the time, you know, so as as the as the publishing company was being so successful, and I'm then getting offered all sorts of jobs, right uh, you know, to go to to m C A and to get

chrysalists and to anyway, in the end, I get approached by Tommy Montola to to go to to to CBS as it was then. And then after a long thought, you know, I I turned it down and I stay redo my deal with Virgin and I stay with Virgin and then and then so that was that was like in November, and then the deal the deal just never got done. My deal never got done. And then I then in the new year, i'm I'm I'm at the A M A S and I um, I bump into Tommy and he says, so you're happy with your decision,

And I said, actually no, Tommy, I'm not. I think it was the wrong decision. So he said, okay, come and see me tomorrow and we're going to work out a deal and and we'll make it work. So I went to see him and we worked out a deal. And at that time I didn't think I wanted to move to New York. So the job he gave me was to be the head of the West Coast Um. But then he was genius what he did has He said, Okay,

so that'll be your job. But what I want you to do is I want you to come to New York and and learn how the company works, understand how the company works. And I'll rent your house in Greenwich, Connecticut for six months. I'll give you a car and driver, uh, and I'll give you X number of flights back and forth from l A. And you know, I mean just ridiculous. Really,

you know, this was crazy times for the business. But because he knew what would happen, he would He knew that as soon as I went to live in New York and experience New York and experience CBS and New York, that that would be it. So I go, and then he then he gives me to start with it, gives me the job president of Associated where I worked with Tony Martell and I had you know, the door not the doors I had Ozzy Osborne, and I had lots of different things there and and anyway, and I and

and I started signing acts. In the first first band I I signed UM was UM to Spin Doctors, right Um. And of course in those days, you know, you have one hit and you sell eight million records, right right right, So we did that, and then I had Hard Michael Goldstone. And the next thing we sign is Pearl Jam. And then and then we signed Rage against the Machine. And

so this is all going crazy. So they then make me um president of Epic, and they make Dave Glue the chairman of Epic, you know, just the the the secretary to the the The Barbara's Skydell story is that Um, the manager of of Regen of Pearl Jam, comes to see me and he says, look, you know, I've got two people who are really keen on on being the agent for the band. One of them is William Morris

and one of them is Barbara Skydell. And I said, look, I'm sorry, I can't get involved in this because I'm not allowed to do any business with the premier talent and Barbara Skydell. So he ended up signing to William Morris and and then Michelle Anthony rings me and says, what the fun is going on? Why why are you telling and not designed to Barbara s Crater And I said, well, look because Barbara sky Dell was the one who told

me that I couldn't do any business with us. So you know, I was a young guy and and she scared the ship out of me. And and I'm just following on what I was told. You know, you would be careful what you say. And did you ever make up with Barbara sky Yes? Yes, yes, okay, so you have this run and then on it was all going incredibly well, and then um we get to sort of where are we about nineties seven I suppose, and we'd

started a second label. Uh good, so Columbia had started another work work, that's right, and we had started five fifty Music with Polly Anthony running five Music. And uh, it's funny how things work out. You know. Over the years, I've been let down by people and disappointed by people, but actually I've only ever been betrayed by one person and that was that was Dave Glue because he took

me out. He took me out for lunch and just to say, um, you know, Richard, I want you to know I think you're doing an incredible job and it's just amazing what you're doing. Blah blah blah blah. The next day, I have a meeting with Tommy Matola and Michelle Anthony and and they basically say, look, we love you, but we're going to merge five fifty and epic. Um so, but we want you to stay. Will you? Um, would you like to run the publishing company that we started.

Would you like to come in and be the number two in the international division working for Bob Bolan, Or would you like to go back to London and run CBS in or Sony as it was in in in London. And I said, oh, well, you know there's a lot of a lot for me to take in. Um, what about the other option? Will you pay out my contract? Right? And because he's in the days of non mitigation contracts and I just literally just signed a new four year deal and uh, but I said, let's leave it with me,

let me think about it. And uh. I went and saw Paul Schindler, who was my lawyer at the time, and I talked it through with him, and he said, let me make a few calls, let's see and and what happened quite quickly. I found out that there were there there were going to be other other gigs available, and Olivia and I had been thinking that about going

back to England. Uh. You know, originally we only went out to the States for three years, but um, we've been there for for ten and UM, so I go back to Tommy and I said, you know, well, I'd like i'd come back, I'd go back to England and I'd run I'd run the Sony in UK. Anyway, Paul Burger, who ran Sony in the UK, didn't want to didn't want to leave um London, so it was all too complicated. So and then and then Clive Davis approached me to

go and run Aristair in New York. And then when so when the BMG people heard about that, then the BMG people, Rudy Gassner, who ran BMG then UM, approached me about going to run the European side of things for for for BMG. So long story short, I'm sorry

if I'm rambling here. The the we end up I end up getting my check and going to London to to work for Rudy and run the UK and Central Europe of of BMG UM, which sort of indirectly is is why you know why we're here today, you know, indirectly meaning what well, because what Hammen was tragically Rudy died six months later, and I loved Rudy. I thought he was an incredible man. And um, anyway, this guy rol Schmidholtz comes in and um just here and I just from day one just did not see eye to eye,

you know. Ah. And you know, I accept that I probably behaved rather badly, you know, to him, calling him a fucking idiot in board meetings and things which I probably shouldn't have done. But he was a fucking idiot, and not surprisingly I I get fired. Well, you told the story about putting your feet on the desk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't want to tell that. Yeah, So at the board meetings, I would I would sit there, uh, and I would just put my feet on the on the desk.

It's just been something that I've always done, is put my feet on the desk. And Rof would get really piste off about it, and he would one day he he went and he went and got a cloth from somewhere, and he picked up my feet and put the cloth down on the table and then plumped my feet, you know. It was it was doomed from from from day one. But um, but actually, of course what had happened was that I had hired Harry McGee to come and run our c A in the UK and here, and I

became very close, very quickly. Um. And so when Ralph firs me, um, he fires Harry as well. And they so that I'd been at the Spanish International meeting and they summoned me to New York. So I get someone to New York. I know what's going to happen here. So I go to New York. I have a ten minute meeting where they farm me and then then I get back on the plane and I fly back to London.

And on the way back, after a couple of martinis, I've been through every job that might possibly be and I realized that that there isn't one for me, you know, and frankly I'd had enough of it all by then anyway, And then they fire Harry, and then uh, two days later it was the BMG Golf Day and Harry and I think funk that, you know, we put the bloody golf Day together. We're going to go to the golf day. You know. So we go to the golf day and on the way to the golf day, we start talking

about what what are you going to do? He says, I'm thinking I'm going into management. I said, well, I'm going to go into management. Why don't we go into management together? Yeah, great idea. So we go to the BMG golf day and and and we come back managers, but not no artists or whatever. But then Jeff Quantits gets in touch with me, and I'd signed Corn when I was an epic and I had a very close relationship with Jeff Quantz and Jeff Jeff flies me out and he says, look, you know, I want to start

an international division of the firm. Is a huge man Ashman company. Then hundred acts and you know, two hundred people. It was. It was just massive. So we start so that we've been through this cold period for a few months where no one's calling us and no one's talking to us. And then then we opened up one day as the firm and we have twenty three platinum martyrs from America, so suddenly everybody is calling us, etcetera. And

we we really started managing. You know, Lana Ritchie and Enrico, I, Gleasias and Lincoln Park, you know, we and and working with those managers, we learned a huge amount um and it was going. There was a real feeling that it could that the firm could have gone on to be something massive. But then Jeff then got into the film world. He bought Mike Covids as company, and it just became a little distracted. So we decided, Harry and I then decided that we would leave the firm and we would

start start start our own thing. And we'd already picked up our first uh sort of a few acts, and that we've been appointed to There was a TV show, talent show called the Fame Academy, and we've been appointed to be the managers of the Fame Academy. And so we we, uh we start that and and I remember we didn't have a name. And then Jed Doherty, who was who had taken over from me actually as the chairman of BMGs to this day a very great friend of mine, rings up and he says, um, so what

are you doing? I explained. He says, oh my god, So what are you going to call the company? And I said, I've got no idea what we're going to call the company. And he says, why don't you call it modest, laughing, And I said, that's a great idea, but we'll put an exclamation mark at the end of it so people know that it's ironic. And then, you know, just one thing sort of led to another. Really, um, and you know we had from that show, we had some great success and did our first arena tour and

that was Lamar Lamar. And how come he didn't break in America? Uh? I just don't think it was right for him. You know, Um, where is he today? What he makes a good living? Still still working and still see him every so often and he yeah, he's he's doing okay. But we then had then we started then we started working because Simon Simon cow had worked for me and and he he had started The X Factor and nothing really was happening with that for the first

couple of years. And he brings me up and he says, look, this is driving me mad because each each of the judges had had a manager looking after their acts and and he said, it's just chaos backstage. I've got I've got four judges, I've got four managers, and I wanted you to come in and you and Harry and when you to manage all of the artists from the beginning through to whoever it is ends up winning. And so

we started doing that. And it was at that time when even the act that came twelveth in the show could go out and make a reasonable amount of money um doing you know, we do three clubs a night. You know, there was the the X factor was so huge that the knock on effect on all those artists was massive. Um. And then the first year that we did it, uh, Leona Lewis won it, and of course Leona is an incredible talent. UM, and we sold you know, I don't know ten twenty million hours. I suppose more

than that probably, UM. So that you know that. Then jere Less came along and they were they were they were huge and um. And then then then One Direction told the story of One Direction. One Direction. There's lots of people who claimed to have put that together, but

I think it really it was all down to Simon's vision. Um. The what's your name Scherzinger was you know, was on the panel, and a couple of the boys, none of the none of the boys were getting through right, um, and Nicole said Luis should put a band together, and I wasn't involved with this at all, um, and Simon just thought that was a great idea and chose the boys.

And you know, it's it's it's been done a hundred times and a thousand times, and it's just you can't explain what it is that no pun intended X factor that is there when it when it works. But you had five, you know, very likable guys, all with different characters,

all doing their own thing within the band. Um, and it just it was just the perfect storm really and um, although funny enough people forget, I mean so Sunny Taker, who was running Psycho Records at the time, had got hold of That's what makes You Beautiful, which is, you know, just an incredible song, you know and southern. You know, I wrote it as an incredible writer and um, so that was a smash in the UK, not not really

anywhere else at the time. And then Simon insisted on a track called Got to Be You as the second single, and nobody wanted that to be the second single. Nobody the band hated it anyway that you know, Simon was the king and that's what happened, and that that was a flop, you know, and people forget you know, it came in at six rightever it was, you know, it was a flop. And then and then the next most important person in in the history of of One Direction

is is Amy Barnett. And Amy Barnett is Steve Barnett's niece and she was living in in Um in the UK at the time and she told Stephen all about One Direction and we were doing some shows and she she got him to come and see the band to play at Hammersmith Apollo, and you know that the light bulb went on and Barnett was a huge champion for it. And then Rob was a huge champion from Stringer, Rob Stringer and they put One Direction on on the tour with a Big Time Rush and which was already sold

out that tour. And you know, as I was saying about gigs and moments that that you just never forget, you know, the A C. D C moment, well, the Chicago One Direction supporting Big Time Rush moment was this was a sold out to before the band where ever put on One Direction, come out and perform not very well six songs, but you cannot hear a thing because

of the screaming that is going on. And then when they go off stage, they go UM that half the crowd leaves the auditorium to go to the merch stand and we sell out of every piece of merch that we had for the entire American tour in one night and one night and Steve Barnett comes down to the dressing room, and this is in February and he says to the band, you will be playing Madison Square Gardens by the end of this year. And at the end of the year we played Madison Square Gardens and then

ultimately you played stadiums all over the world. What do you think ultimately drove it? I think that it was the unique chemistry and character of the boys Um, because they were they each had they each had their own thing. Um. You know, obviously it was it was Harry and his looks. H and Zane you know, you know, had an incredible voice, Liam had an amazing voice. Nile was just this incredible charmer UM and funny enough, Louis he doesn't get nearly

enough at it. You know, he was the one, he was the one who was really the driver behind the band. UM and it was just it was just that magical combination of all of them, and they were great mates. You know. Obviously, as as bands go on, then things changed in the chemistry. As you get older, that that changes as well, and that obviously came to a head when when Zane left. But for the longest time they remained great mates and had great fun and and the

fans recognized that. And the fans can recognize when it's not real, and it was real with them. Plus they had some incredible songs, you know, and you know, you you need to give Simon and Sunny Taker, you know, and sarden uh credit for for that, you know. Um, Okay, So to what degree is one D one D equivalent

to keep up? Or what do you think of ke pop? Well? Uh, I can't to this day, I can't understand how and what has happened though, other than it has happened, and I see the huge success, um and I freely admit that it's something that I don't understand, you know. But what what what hasn't changed, And what you do see is that from the days of Elvis Presley, through the Beatles and the b Gs and then you know, all

the other great pop bands. Twelve to sixteen year old girls have always loved falling in love with good looking boys, and that is never going to chang change. Just putting up you know, it's four or six good looking boys isn't good enough. It has to be something that is tangible for those fans to relate to. And that is the bit which everybody is always trying to do. And you look at the number of times that that has

has been tried. But you know, you look at Backstreet, Backstreet boys, you look at um, you know, and everything. You know, there's always you know, in England we had a Bank of Westlife which never made it outside, but you know, there's You're never going to stop those young girls wanting to fall in love with good looking young men. And why did Robbie Williams never make it in the US? Well, ah, I don't really know. I think that they, um, I don't know too much about that. I think maybe they

went wrong. They should have gone straight with angels rather than try to be They maybe went a bit cool to start with um. And then he called his American album the Ego is Landed. You know America. That doesn't translate well in uh in American you know. Um, I mean it's extraordinary really considering what a huge story is everywhere else in the world and now here he is doing weeks at a time in Vegas, you know. And

why did you start working with ka Um? That was really Simon's decision, you know, he just decided that we've had some problems with Little Mix, um when when Sunny

left the dynamic with the label change. And of course, when you've when you've had artists on on a TV show and you've sort of dictated how that all went, and you've and you've given them the break, and then they've gone on to be very successful, you do have to realize that there's a moment when you have to give the artists their head and allow them to grow up. As they are growing up there, they're no longer sixteen year olds or eighteen year olds there, They're they've grown up.

And Little Mix had really reached that stage and they were being asked to record some tracks which they just didn't like. And uh, you know, Simon felt that that that that wasn't right and he felt that we we weren't supporting him enough in getting getting that done. But the simple fact of life is that We work for the artists, we don't work for the record company. Um so you know, we're there to support the artist and actually we felt the artist was absolutely right at that time.

So um, as far as we're concerned, that was Simon fell out with us. We we don't feel anything but but good feelings towards Simon. But also since you start working with his TV shows, none of those acts of hit well, uh yeah that that yes, that could be true. Yes, but it's true. Does he ever regret it or he's just you know, keeping his distance? Well, I hope that. You know. The funny thing is we've had far bigger arguments about things, you know, far far bigger arguments about things,

you know. Um, So it was you know, there was there was just a lot of change going on there at the time. And you know, I hope that one day we'll find something to work on together again, you know. Um, but that's we'll just have to see how that plays out,

you know. Okay, So where's the business going. Well, I think it's a very exciting time, you know, um I I I I judge success now from with our artists with by ticket count and per heads and merchandising and I know there's a lot of talk about live work, you know, business being down, and that may well be the case, but I suspect that in certain areas it probably over expanded. So that's sort of contraction, is just like a leveling out from what I see from where

we are, it's it's just growing and growing. And I think that the what what's exciting about the way the DSPs work is that the whole international thing, when you get that right, that does mean that that although you do still have to go and visit territories and put the artists in front of people, an awful lot of that work is being done for you up front, you know, through through Spotify, through Apple, etcetera. You know. So I know you're a big Prague fan. Is there any hope

for rockers? Rock dead? God? I hope, So, I tell you, you know, I think I think I've got two remaining ambitions in life. One one one is to win the Eurovision Song Contest one day, because I grew up listening to the Eurovision Song Contest, watching it with my mother and my sister, you know. And I actually did represent the English entrance in six but we we only came six, you know, but one one day, even if it's not the English entrant, I hope I have the entrant that

that wins it. And then the other would be to be going to see a great probe band or a great rock band. You know. I I was so lucky working with Rage Against the Machine and Pearl Jam and Corn and Aussie you know, I I loved working with those artists and and I I'm in the same way as there are always going to be uh, you know, twelve to sixteen year old girls looking to fall in

love with, you know, good looking guys. I believe that there are young guys who are going to be looking to want to have an idol of a guitarist or a singer and to be up there doing that. You know, well that I agree that there's a business. But right now in America the radio and Spotify is dominated by hip hop, not live. So is there a chance that rock can you know, break up that hegemony? Well? Uh,

you know you should ask Peter Mention that question. Uh. You know, he's far closer to it than than I am. But I do believe that there will be, you know, a band that will come through that will start a movement again. It may not be on the on the scale that we've seen, but I just hope. Maybe it is only hope, but I do also believe that there

will be a movement again that will happen. And since you're, you know, living in England, but you've lived in the US and you were we said these worldwide acts, what do you see as the difference between those two major markets. When I was managing the Jags, and when we arrived in New York, we were going to be the next big thing. We were on the back page of Billboard magazine.

We were on you know the ad they used to take there, and on cash Box on the front page, and we were going to be the next big thing. And then we toured our way across America doing radio shows, and then we get to l A six weeks later and suddenly no longer are we going to be the

next big thing. So the tour support gets pulled. I have to get rid of the tour manager, and I end up driving the band back across America, gigging in a in a Winnebago, gigging across America, getting down to Miami, where we're gonna then get on on boat and go over to a compass point to make the second album, and what I learned from that was just how fucking

huge America is. And I think the point that I think a lot of British acts over the years have not appreciated that America is not New York, m l A. It's everywhere in between, and you do have to go out and you do have to go and play there and see it and make that connection. I think that's uh that that's that's something that you can come to London and to England and play London and essentially you're taken care of of the UK. But in America you've got to get out there and you've got to you've

got to doodle. You know, you've been listening to Richard Griffith's here on the Bob Left Sets podcasts. We're doing this in honor of modest Management getting the Music Industry Award. Richard. You're a great rock and tour and you've dropped a lot of wisdom. Thanks so much for being Thanks very much, lovely Glea