Peter Asher

the medical field still to this day. And my mother was a musician, played the obo and was Obo professor at the Royal Academy Music in London. So, and your father literally diagnosed certain conditions, well he if you're looking up now, the primary and what was his name, His name was Richard Ashe and he identified and named Munchausen syndrome. And an example of his eccentricity is that, you know, usually and doctors identified disease, they name it after themselves. True,

with Munchausen syndrome you get people going. But who was Dr muncha and explained for my audience what that is. Well, it's the it's the illness you probably have heard of where people make up diseases that they've have had. It's not just like lingering or it's when you you actually enjoy the process of being examined by doctors and being

the center of attention in that way. Um, so they he discovered that there were people who are actually going around the country to different hospitals complaining of these conditions purely in order to enjoy, believe it or not, the the attention that that being a sufferer gave you. And because by the time they go to the third or fourth hospital, they already had scars from exploratory surgery and stuff.

So it all sounded very credible. And then stopping somebody else identified Munchausen by proxy, which is much nasty where people use their children to that saying that's when we read about the paper all the time. But he identified it and named it after Baron Munchausen, of course, who was a legendary of fictitious teller of of of told stories and as in the Adventures of Baron munchaus in the book and the film by Terry Gilliam, So he named it after the baron. Rather is that his personality

was he a little offbeat? Yes, and he was. He was brilliant and a brilliant writer. He wrote extremely well. Now I grew up in a family where we all had dinner together every evening. Now did you have that in your house as often as possible? I think yes? So were you interacting with sudden you all at breakfast every day and quite off way at dinner? And and did your father interact with you? Yes? And to what degree you to get you believe your personality from him? Uh?

I think. I think my love of logic and science and literature and good writing all came from him. Um. Those so those uh characteristics which I value them, which I think did come from my father, And and both my sisters have those same characteristics as well. And your mother was a music teacher. So did she have you learning music in the house? She did? Um? Well, I was very uncoperative. I'm the one. I'm the child who kept up least with my piano lessons and and formal

music training. I was very lazy about it and and sort of didn't uncooperative about it. Both my sisters read music much much better than I do. But was there always music in the house? Yes? Always? Um. My mother started as a working musician, of course, when I was young. Apparently I spent the first year or so of my life on the road. Really because okay, so your parents were married. Your father's a doctor and your mother's going

on the road. Yes, because at that point suddenly the orchestras were I'd run out of people because all the men were conscripted or volunteered. And what your father was more, he was in a doctor in London, um, dealing with victims of the bombing and all that stuff, you know, that made him a lifelong pacifist. Being dealing with all the blown up people in the Blitz was more than enough to convince him it was not a good idea. And uh, my mom, that was when the big orchestras

had women in them only as a lost resort. Women only they were My mother was telling me once how they were instructed. When the whole orchestras in the symphony orchestra, the Halle orchestra, whatever it was, walked on stage for a concert, the women was instructed to walk behind the man as unobtrusively as possible. Wow. So your mother when she went on the road with you, and apparently we the orchestras run the road entertaining troops, and when I was a baby, I'm told that she I was left.

A lot of the women would have babies and they would leave them under the care of some some burly sergeant major in the room somewhere while the concert took place, and your mother went on the road for the compensation or because she was filling a niche I think because it was a gig, you know it was. She was a musician, and somebody offered you a place in a major orchestra, you took it. I guess. I don't remember asking that, asking that particular question. But there were three

kids in the family. Uh yeah, Well when I was a little baby, there was only me. I was the oldest. So if she's telling about when I was a little baby, which I think she was, maybe she hadn't even had Jane yet, let alone Clad. Okay, so your sister is famous actress, genius and clear? What was Clear's life about?

Claire became a school teacher, then at mistress, and then a school inspector um and now she occasionally still works for Offsted, which is the school inspection agency in the UK, and she kind of inspects the inspectors or something as a on a consultant basis. She's the cleverest of all of us in and you still have contact with her. Oh, yes, very much. So okay, so you're in the house, and at what point do you become infected with popular music?

Quite late? I was a classical music fan. Then I was a jazz fan, which I do when I'm terrible at dates, I should warn you. But I suppose when I was ten, eleven, twelve, I don't know, it's okay, But when you were into jazz, because you know America, you know, we have a different frame of reference. Was jazz the sound that people were listening to? No, uh, not so much. Although track jazz as we called you know, Dixie Land did enjoy a great vogue in the UK.

But modern jazz bebop that I was enthrolled with was at a smaller audience. It was not popular music, but it was cool music. It was you know, how did you get turned onto it? I don't know. Uh. I had a friend who was a huge fan, maybe he was a fan before I was, who had a better record collection than I did. But you started, you know, once you're into it, you start collecting all those all your Charlie Parker and thelonis someone can Max Roach and

all those records. It becomes the thing, you know. And those were all forty five. No, they were albums very often ten inch albums, tenny inch album really they played at thirty three. Yes, at that point there were ten inch and twelve inch and because getting American albums was the coolest, you know, albums on Blue Notes and Prestige and all those great labels. The irony of course being an American the sixties, the thing was to have the

English completely. It turned around completely. And of course the thing that we could never understand about the English albums is they weren't shrink wrapped. Well that's right, yes exactly. Now they were quite different. And we would collect American albums and and then I was a big folk fan as well. You get turned onto the folk. I think my friend, I don't know, it might have been my

friend Andrew Even, who's now pretty successful in himself. He's Andy Oven and he lives in Ireland and has a folk career still to this day, um doing very well. It might have been him. I fell in love with Woody Guthrie for some reason. I think it was part of our our our you know, we We were inspired by America overall. We loved everything that was American. And you can't get much more American than Charlie Parker on the one and and what do you on the other.

But in now we have the Internet and you can find out what's going on around the world. How did you gain this information? Uh? You know, we read Grapes of Roth. We read we read Woody Yathri's book Man for Glory. We we knew what the songs were about. You know, when he'd sing a song about Sacho and Vanzetti, we'd go, who's that? When we go to the library and look it up? And and so so we we got interested in all that, all that stuff, and as I say, everything American had a real allure to it.

And of course we took a jazz hero is infinitely more seriously then they were taken in America. I mean, when the Lonis Monk would play London, he'd be playing the Festival Hall to a rapt and silent audience. When he played New York, he'd be playing in a jazz club in which half the people appeared to be not paying attention. So we realized how important these people were. In the same way that we subsequently did with American rock and roll. Okay, if this isn't exactly the kind

of music, you may, but you're piquing my interest. Of course, it was the Brits who were responsible for the blues revos. Yes, why do you think that happened? Well, you said, Going and I didn't make this kind of records. The interesting

thing is we kind of did. If you listen to I mean to the best viability, you listen to a lot of Peter and Going albums, There's there's Jimmy Read songs on there, there's there's you know, I'm not saying well badly we did them, but we were as gung ho on American rhythm and blues as everybody else was. It became a collective obsession. We all knew who wrote those songs. We knew about author Alexander and we knew about you know, and then you know obviously Smokey Robinson

all the hits. But in addition, we we did know about Jimmy Reid and and you know even earlier people than that, Robert Johnson and to him. We we we we we got into it. Now of course you have the BBC. Would they play these records BBC U as you probably know how to limit on how many records they could play of any kind. There was a very limited amount of what they called needle time allowed. So uh, they didn't know. It's a good question exactly how we came to hear it. It was a It was a person.

The person I remember I belonged to some kind of jazz and blues society and we'd meet once a week somewhere. People would bring records they play. Yes, that's like the early parts of the early era of the computer world. You'd go and you have a meeting about computers. Yes, and people would say, look, I found this. And then

you could buy bootlegs too. There was a dad jazz record shop called Doebells in the jan Cross Road where they would sell which I didn't even think of his bootlegs at the time, but of course they must have been. They would sell individually got acetates from behind the counter of jazz and folk albums that we couldn't get, all the folk ways and ash albums and stuff that we're

not released in the UK. You could buy a doughbells and of course I realized now that what they were doing is just copying the single American copy they'd managed to get. So you're now in school and you start performing when you're a school I met Gordon at school, Gordon Waller. But before you meet Gordon, are you're performing at all? No? I don't think so, well, not at school. I did have a skiffle group before that, um as everybody did. So it's like in America when the Beatles

said everybody picked up a guitar. Everybody in England out of school. I read in one of the books that's supposed to fifty and skillful group at the peak, and you know, there were some group to add hits. I think the first one was Freight Train Chas McDevitt was the man's name, and they had the first hit with a version of freight Train Old Song, which the writer was was around. Then there was the Vipers, had a couple of hits, and finally Lonnie Donigan, of course, who

became the star. And Lonnie Donegan, as you may know, came out of the Dixie Land jazz trad jazz I didn't know, Oh yes completely. He was the banjo player in Chris Barber's jazz band. Chris Barber was one of the most successful of these trad jazz bands who were very popular and had hits. And he played chunka chunka banjo with Chris Barber, which was the usual you know, trumpet, trombone, clarinet,

Dixieland combination. And apparently, and I remember seeing this in the middle of the show, they would give Lonnie Donning on a spot where we would do a couple of folk songs and that's where like his version of Rock Island, Lion and stuff came from. And eventually he formed his own and and rock allant line of course began number one all over the place. Now what was the startup status of television at that point? I don't know how much music there was on TV. There was six six

five special, I guess started around that time. That was the first TV show that had rock and roll on it. And did everybody have a TV? We got our television, our first television for the Coronation, which was fifty something. I'm not sure, and I think people, wait, do you remember watching the Coronation? Yes, yes, very much so. It's

always like getting a TV for the Super Bowl. You knew this was coming, yes, And as you may have read or seen, if you watched the Crown that it was Churchill who convinced the Queen to do it, which was interesting because he was a very conservative man. But they said, look this this new thing, you know, the television has becoming a thing and should be or should we not? And there was a major school of thought

that you absolutely should not. They would destroy the mystique and the magic and the the actually religious quotient of this whole royal business. And the Queen herself it came came to the decision, came down to her with whatever ridiculous a young age she was, and she talked to Churchill and he said, you should do it, you know, you should let them in. So if you're someone of your generation in England, does everyone remember where they were

when the when Queen Elizabeth was coordinated? Probably? I don't know. Um, I mean, at least you're not remembering a tragedy like the Kennedy. Everybody at my age remembers exactly where they were when. That is actually what I was thinking about, well exactly I was. I remember being at school and when we got the news of you know, that remas the same impact to some degree globally, I think because Kennedy was a global hero. But yes, I would say

most people. I think my guess would be the cardination got ridiculous viewing figures because he had one channel. It's not that you could watch something else. So you either turned to don't or you didn't and why wouldn't you? It was a national holiday. You a skiffle group, and then you went to school and you met Gordon. Yes, how did you meet Gordon? We were in the same house at school and now I find the people know

what that means because of Harry Potter. You know, house is a subdivision within your school, and that meant we would inevitably meet. And we discovered that we both played the guitar and sang. So what was Gordon's background that he played the guitar and saying his father was also a doctor actually and he lived out in Pinna where's from? Yes, exactly, And I'm not sure how he started playing the guitar. He was. He was a big rock fan. So you're a what age when you meet Gordon? Now you meet him?

Is it's something that evolved or do you immediately see each other and say, well, you play music, I play music. We're gonna do something It must have involved quite quickly because discovering we both played, we knew about the same number of chords, not a huge number, but enough to get by. And we started comparing musical tastes. And I was more of a folky. He didn't know much about what he got. Three I showed him some songs. He

liked them. He was more of a rocket. I mean I knew about Elvis, of course, but he would he was deep into Elvis and Eddie Cochrane and and we did coincide on the Evely Brothers. We both were Evely's fans, so inevitably when that's who we started singing. And I think we did talk about forming a band at one point. We did have a group, I remember because we actually entered.

Uh we were in a group and we entered ourselves into the chamber music competition at school because we qualified because it said they could be you know, four or more instruments or something. And you know, somehow we we realized that by playing a Shadows tune, the Shadows being the big instrumental band in the UK, that we could enter the chamber music competition. And we did. They let us do it to and how how were you received.

We got an honorary mentioned. The judges said it was very hard to compare us to a you know, a box string quartet or whatever, but but that we we all seem to play well, and they gave us an honorary mention. Was this a lark or are you seeing it? We want to get gigs, we want to make money. We weren't thinking about making gigs and money at that time. I don't think we just wanted to try it out.

And I don't remember the process by which we kind of abandoned the idea of a group and Golden and I became a duo, but gradually it became just us. And what did that look like in terms of you playing? We as I say, we did? Quite a few have re LEAs songs we did. We worked out a couple of what he got three songs and folk songs, um, we worked out some Elvis songs. We used to do. How many version of Old show Cup which was pretty cool? Slow died down? And there were there other musicians in

your school, oh, lots among the Mandel Looyd Weather really? Yes, so you went to did you knew Andrew Lloyd? Yes? And did you have any hint that he would become the judge. He was no, but he did write the first one. What was it the Touch? Really the first trial run. I think it was just after left school, but he was working on it at It's fascinating because in America that was a complete stuff, had no women. Yeah, and Jesus Christ Superstar. The single came out in the

spring of seventy and then the album. It had a totally different uh skew or impact on the culture. It was seen as a rock thing as opposed to now he's seen as a Broadway Yes, that's right, but it was really they made the album first too, with rock singers exactly. The the It didn't hit probably till a year after the album came out, but it was you know, it had different rock people on it and it was great. So you were you just one of the acts in school or do? Were you one of the better acts?

I don't remember any other acts? Actually, I imagine there must have been some, but we were not really well. So. So they're having a assembly so to speak, you're playing. Do you have many opportunities to perform? Not much, not in school functions, no, but but potties yes, and Eventually you you find just getting asked to more potties than usual, um, by people you don't particularly know. You know, that's come

to having a potty, Please come and bring your guitars. Know, eventually dawns on you you're actually getting booked for free gigs, right, your book for free gigs, which is fine of course, but are you enjoying the Yes, it was great and it makes it easier to short two girls and all that stuff. You know, how how long do you stay in school? Um? All the way through? You know, telling finish school? Which was I suppose seventeen sixteen? Okay, what

about going to university? I did? Gordon Gordon was the year behind me in school. He's one year younger. So yes, by the time we started to be successful, I was actually at university. I was a King's College, London, UM, studying philosophy. And you finished there. No, I did, not, No, significantly. I You see, we've been gigging while we were at school. We started getting some actual paid gigs. Did you have

an agent? How did you get those gigs? I think one of them actually we played a place called Maria's or something was well. I think we actually recommended by our friends Jan and Jeremy. But incidentally because they you brought them up. Yes, because many people because of the similarity of these I'm in the same boat. But you actually knew them, Yes, we did, and the similarities are bizarre.

I mean, think about it, two duos all the tall one, tall handsome one sings the low part, the short nerdy one wears glasses sings the high pot and in both cases the one who's actually the lead singer puts his name second. Right. It's really weird. Ja and Jeremy, Peter. But you had a hit before they did, right, Yes, And they never really had hits in the UK. Really, they were only successful in America, very successful. Why is that? I don't know. And I think their label was kind

of non existent in the UK. They were on a weird label and and uh, yes, it's it's it's very curious. But they when we were stepping were confused all for each other all the time. They we would do things when we were on the d Salvent Show, which they never got on. We they would get congratulated and great and vice versa because they did um, the Dig Van Dyke Show, the Battie Duke Show and Batman, which was the biggest TV show in the world, and we would

get congratulated and get pissed. That's it all works out. We were saying, they helped get you gigs or they have. There was one particular gig that they were moving on to a different gig and and this lunchtime gig, we're looking for a replacement, and they recommended us. I know. That's how we got one gig. We did have an agent one brief period. I remember a guy called Lenn Black. Lenn Black, that's right, I've dropped about him. And how much was a gig worth? We we did Papa lunchtime.

We got a pound each and a meal and then eventually we got this better paying, more serious gig at a place called the pick Quick Club. And that's where you know, we got discovered and things changed. Okay, so you were going to King's College. Gordon was the year behind you. Did he go to college by that time? By the time we were the Pickwick, he had left school. Okay, I was not going to university. And then so how

did you get discovered? We were playing at the Pickwick Club. Well, for those who don't know, what was the Pickwick where was it and what was in the middle of London off the Ja cross Road. It was the sort of up market late night eating and drinking club, a lot of stars of the day. The first time I ever met Michael Caine was in the Pickwick Club, Morrice mikel White right exactly. This was when he was, you know, very young and handsome. Um. David Hemmings of course you're

a blow up, you know. Um. So it was the place to be. Terence Stamp and his incredibly beautiful girlfriend Jean Shrimpton, um and so on, and Harry seek him one of the one I don't know the gun show, Harry sekim be to sell. Spike Milligan of course met him there. He was charming in a good tipper and and we would sit in a couple of barssels at the bar and do two or three sets a night,

singing heavily songs, current songs and would the people pay attention? Yes, sometimes something something that they wouldn't How long did you play and were you trying to get discovered where you're putting out fields? Now we're just doing a gig. We were just doing it and it was quite well paid and we got free food in a really delicious, great restaurant and tips. People would request songs and we do our very best to learn them and do them. Or we say, you know, we'll come back, come back, and

they so we will learn it. And we're still going to school at this point. Uh. There was a period during our early gigging where I had left school and Gordon was still at school and he would have to climb over a fence to get out because when he was a weekly boarder, and I would illegally would get out over a fence. I would meet him and drive to the gig. But I was not. I was at university. But then later on Gordon left school. But I forget exactly the order things happening. But one night at the

Biggery Club, John the question. We would do about three sets to night. I think how many days a week? Every night? So so at that point if you work, it was seven days. If you're working, if you're working that much, you're not going to school an even No, Well, Gordon was okay, but you how do you decide to leave school? No? I left to go when I was finished with school. I was you were at the university, we're doing these things. How could you study if you're

working you know every night? Um I did I got away with it? Did I do well enough? I passed my exams? Okay, so you're you're working at the Pickwick Club. One night a man in a very shiny suit asked us to sit down have a drink with him. We said yes, we always yes to that question, and and he introduced himself as Norman Newell and an a guy from E M I Records, and said that you would like us to come and do an audition for E M I at em I Studios. We were very excited.

Uh was this was me days away? He boked some time. We went and cut a bunch of songs just with us on our guitars, just like we've been doing in the Pickwy Club, and several songs. He particularly liked our version of five miles, the old Folks song. I think at the time he was kind of imagining maybe we would be England's answer to the folk boom, you know, kind of the Kingston Duo as it were, or Peter

and Paul without marriage. This is before the explosion of the Beatles, yes, and well might have been just beginning. I guess maybe beatles first single maybe I don't know, um, but yes, it must have been because at that point Paul was already living in our house, so they were already down in London. And so yes, no, the Beatles

had happened, because in America the Beatles and no Beatles yet. No, but when the Beatles happened sixty four, which was two years later, just killed the folks sine overnight, right, No, the folks, yes, exactly, but the folksine had leaked over to England and maybe he thought, you know, that was

where we were got to fit in. But the Beatles must have been happening at that time because that was when Paul was he had moved into use and and uh so that's when you know, we went did the audition and they give us a record contractor they sent us a record deal. Said well, you know, okay, we use you know, saying this is it, this is my career, I'm gonna make it. Yes, yes, we all thought that because of course at that time, the without a record deal,

there was no hope at all. There were no alternatives. The only way anyone was gonna ever hear your music other than a gig was making a record. And did you have a lawyer. Look at the deal we had the e M. I got us a manager, which should have been an indication. But we're managed by Michael Richard Armitage who managed David Frost and managed pianist called Russ Conway who had a lot of hits in the UK, and a few other people, and um I had quite

a big music organization. It was Noel Gay Publishing, Noel Gay being a very successful songwriter from a previous era. UM So there we were and and we they gave us our record deal and and that's when we okay, So then what about what to record? Exactly? Well, Norman had picked a couple of songs off a demo including if you remember I don't We probably did about ten songs a lot, yeah, that we've been you know, about ten that we've been doing in the sets at the club.

And he picked a couple of specific ones I think an Evily song and five Miles and that he wanted us to record. But that's when he did say, look, if you know any other songs that might you know fit in you know, you think would be good to record. Uh biole means bring it to my attention. And that's when this whole other story. Okay, let's let's stop for a second. How does Paul McCartney end up living in

your house? Well, that's the other story. Uh. My sister Jane at that time, I've already become a very successful actress. We both started acting when we were chilled. How does that happen? Um? An agent spotted the three of us, myself, Jane and Claire and kind of went, oh, you know, you could you know, they could do well a little bit slower. You're like, you know, I know this doesn't exist, but you're like at the mall, you're walking. We were at the park, as I recall, in a playground, and

some agent was talking to my mother. I think that's the story as I as I've been telling, and your

mother is not suspicious, No, she was kind of inter curious. Um. They said, well, you know, I think it was something like this that you know, because we all had red hair, and we were equally graded in height, and nevidently looked sufficiently you know, cute, and and so we all said, oh, that sounds great, let's do it, you know, And so we signed up to this acting agent, a woman called Valerie Glynn Wilson, gave acting classes, which we went to a bit, and both Jane and I started getting work

kind of straight away. What kind of work did you get? Well, my first film was this film called The Plant His Wife, where I can probably say Plaudette Colbert played my mother and and Jack Hawkins played my father, and we were fighting the Commies in the in the Empire. We were out in Malaysia saving the British. How big a role did you have? Big? I was the son. Okay, you're going to school, Yes, you're in a movie. Yes, the people now, I mean that was when I was eight.

We do you go play? That's the kid from the movie. Occasionally? How good did that make you feel? Excellent? Okay, so you do that movie and then then does it dry upper? There's continuing work. I've worked for about the next five years or so. A lot um uh, because at that time you could juggle. It was school, and it was fine because you know, they'd have to have teachers on

the set and all that stuff. But when I went to when I switched from prep school too, what you would call high school became harder because I was at this place for Westminster School, which which is why about Gordon who are much stricter about letting you have to time off. So so did that ultimately kill your acting career? I think so that's my excuse anyway, Okay, what Jane left school, uh fifteen? She was she loved acting. She she stuck with it. We did do one thing together once.

What happened to Claire was she acting too or she dropped? He did do some acting, but not very much. So she did do something. So Jane sticks with it, and you do what together. Jane left to stick with it. The one we did together was an episode of robin Hood, the old black and white Robin Hood series. I was in four or five of them as Prince Arthur. But then after I've done that for a while, that stopped.

Prince author dropped out for some reason, but they asked to be back with Jane a year or so later. By that time, I had been demoted to a peasant child. So Jane and I play a mother and sister peasant children whose father has been captured by the sheriff and who go to Robin for help. And it's it's also quite substant anto roles and I can't remember her names though, and and that's the only thing we ever did together, but that was fun. Anyway, Jane took to acting very vigorously,

and because it's still very successful to this day. That's what she's doing all the time as we speak, and doing it very well and doing very well at it. And so she when I left school and went to series school, she left school and quit and took acting seriously and has been working ever since. And she meets Paul McCartney. How she was the celebrity. She was also

well respected for her musical opinions. She'd been on the show called Jukebox Jury, which was a TV weekly TV show where they had celebrities give their opinion on the latest round of record releases, and she did that very well because she loved music. She's articulate and she's good at it. So it was in that context at the Radio Times, which is like our TV guide kind of thing. Um, he said we didn't really need a TV because, as they said, we only had one TV, but we had

multiple radio channels. And so they are starting to go and see this band who just come down from London that all the girls were screaming over, and so she did and she thought they were amazing and loved them and and thought the music was terrific, and they were. She was taken backstage as the visiting celeb to meet them. She liked them very much, they liked her, and one of them liked her in particular, anounced her out and this one okay, but he's from Liverpool. Yeah, so they

become boyfriend girlfriend. How does he end up literally living in your house? He was just hanging around there all the time, I think, and our parents sort of took pity on him and offered him the guest room in the house because the Beatles had a flat in Green Street and Mayfair, as I recall, But it was chaos. It was for for guys living together, you know, who weren't that much and we're on the road a lot in rock and roll style. And I think when they made this offer, I think he liked the idea of

having slightly more organized family existence. Ultimately, how he moved in, Ultimately, how long did he live there? Two? He is, I think. And when he first moves in, have they already had a hit? Yes? They must have, yes, because he was already being recognized. Okay, So what was that like having Paul McCartney living your house for you, it was well, I mean it was very interesting. I mean, I was happy to meet him. I liked him a lot. Obviously we we lived next door to each other on the

top floor. She had a bathroom, so I got to know him and liked him. I mean, I think for everybody was a bit strange because of the celebrity factor. But that was, as you probably know, in that Wimple Street Holly Street area in London is where doctors have their consulting rooms as well. So there were moments when patients would come to visit see my father and be very puzzled by a crowd of girls milling around on the doorstep because eventually, because people did find out where

he was living. So so so, your father's office was in the basess, No, in the in his office was on the what we called the first floor. He was like, okay, now you had a piano in the basement where he would write and rehearse. That's a music room my mother had.

We had a piano in the sitting room on the second floor, which he couldn't use, but there was the other piano was a little upright in the basement where my mother had a small music room, because the occasionally would give private lessons because she taught mostly the Royal Academy and occasionally was a visiting professor at the Guildhall School of Music as well, where in one of the curiosity curiosity is his whole business. One of the pupils

that the guild Hall was George Martin. Very astonishing, but I mean so by the time she finally met George as her daughter's boyfriend's record you said, it was like, oh, of course I know him. He was an OVA player. So how much time does Paul spend in the music room downstairs, off and on whenever he wanted to use the piano? I think, and of course only when he was there, because sometimes they were on the road, and

so was his tenure at our house. We no it would it be generally speaking, just him, or would the other guys dropped by? Well, this particular occasion, and I remember John Lennon came over, but that only happened near

the beginning. I think this was shortly after, because increasingly they started to write separately, tell the famous story about the famous song, the famous stories when John came over and he and pulled it down in this music room in the basement for a couple of hours, and then Paul Say's head out and called up the stairs to me. I was in my bedroom at the top on the top floor, and I wanted to come down and hear

the song they had just written. So I said, yes, I'd love to, and I came down and I sat on the little sofa and they'd written the song clearly, evidently without guitars. The guitars were upstairs, and they sat side by side on the piano bench like a duet, and both played the piano and hammered out this brand new song called I Want to Hold Your Hand. And asked me what I thought, and you said, I said,

it's great, It's very good. And I think probably the key thing I said is please played again, because because that's what makes it right, the right, no matter what

the actors. And how similar was it to the final record? Oh, it was very similar, but piano, you know, but it was the song was exactly there, and he he at the time, Paul, I remember Paul explaining to me what some pots were going to be, you know, where there was going to be a little guitaric or something, so that he had an arrangement in his head, but they played it on the piano. But the song is identical.

So in any event, now you have this deal, you're a and R guy says if you have any material, yes, if you know of any other songs, And I remembered hearing this song called Well without Love that Paul had played me at some point on guitar upstairs in his bedroom or miro my Fagett which and I admired it, and he told me at the time that it was a reject song that they weren't going to do that. John didn't think much of it or didn't think it was right for the Beatles or whatever, and it was unfinished.

You know, you've written a couple of uses, no bridge and had been rejected. So when when Neil Norman asked me this question, that's when I said, I think perhaps I do. And I went back to Paul that evening, I think, or the following evening maybe he was offered a gig I don't recall, and said, is that song still a reject and is it still in an orphan and he said yes, we're not doing it. And I said, well, we've just got a record deal and could we try

and work out and arrangement of it. I like that song very much, I remember, have fond memories of it. And he said, fine, that would be fine, and he wrote out the lyrics and the chords for me, which I have safely locked away and highly enjoyed in case, in case the world crashes and the music business finally completely run to Southern Pasta. But m and and he also he made a demo for me on either my or his real real machine, I forge you. We both did.

I had a I forget that. I think my first one I was called like a play tone or something, and then I got a superior when called a pterograph um and Paul Brunel, and then he got a second Brunell. Because we were playing with plugging them into each other and dubbing back and forth, and the two of you together with yes and when you got your record deal. Was he encouraging or was two wrapped up in his

own world? He was the delighted. He didn't. I don't remember I having much to do with it or anything, but but he said, oh, great, well done. Okay, so he writes down world and I said, can we do that song? He said yes, um as I official date Norman gave me a date that he booked at em I Studios with musicians to record these four or five chosen songs. And I did at the Nagpole to write the bridge in time for that. There was no bridge. Finally, when when he finally sits down, do you have any

idea how long it took? It was very quick. He I literally asked him. I said, please, you know, we sessions in a week. We really need a bridge, or two weeks or whatever it was. And he said okay and went in his bedroom with his guitar and came out in ten minutes with his brat brilliant. That's the So I wait in a while. But that was the bridge, and it was perfect, and we recorded the song and the day of that session. By the end of the session,

everyone was sure that was it. We were no longer going to be folkis this was gonna be our first single? We're gonna be pop stars? And and did you play on the record or just sing? I don't think I played at all. I think we just sang. I don't think either us played on that record. And how often how long after the track has recorded is it released one month and an instant success, instant success in the UK.

They actually had Jane on jukebox Jewty that week and she particularly asked that they you know, she wanted to make sure they weren't going to play it, and they lied and sprang it onto on live television. UM, and she said, oh, you told me, you you promised you wouldn't do and and of course she said, I love it. I think it's a great and she they mentioned that it was her your brother yesterday, explained and and she said, of course it's I'm trying to tell you it's going

to be a huge it will be number one. It's brilliant. And actually she was right, yes it was. And you're now on this rocket ship to the moon. And what are your thoughts, Um, we barely had time to think. You know, it doesn't I think what you mostly don't realize is that you've just beaten two million to one odds. Because what we now know is, you know, getting a record deal itself. The odds are against you. We beat

those odds. But then when you think I've got a record deal, now it's all done, I'm gonna be a big stop, now we know those odds are another million to one. UM, We didn't know that, and so it seemed kind of natural. Signed a record deal, make a record, comes out, goes down. But then of course just what

we meant right away. But then, of course, so the other odds being able to follow it up exactly, and and of course the fact that when some one in the UK, then Europe, and then finally you know, sometime later to utmost incredulity number one in America. And at the time, because royalty rates were low and it's a crooked business, were you anticipating great remuneration? We thought we'd get rich and we didn't. Yes, I mean the deal then was one penny a record. Uh, we've went ten

ten pennies an album. There was one English penny to an off sense per records. A million sound record, there's a million pennies. It's about four thousand pounds, except you got half royalties overseas. Of course it's just the US, right right, so that actually that million sounding you got like to do you do you get any royalties at this late date. Yes, I think it's about a hundred pounds a year or so. Um, it does come in. So okay, you record that first try, you am I

very meticulous about it. But yes, it's it is minimal. That's a whole separate conference, separate conversation. But at least you're in in the black. There are many people with many hit records that you don't get any money. So uh, then you immediately start to work playing World without Love. Yes, I mean immediate things with TV shows. Uh. The first thing that happens when you have it in the UK is you're on top of the pops, You're on Thank You like he saws, You're on all the big TV shows.

And we did those straightaway, both live. And what does Paul say about his hip becoming song becoming? He was thrilled, he was delighted. I mean he was thrilled. It was that song was going to do nothing and he was very happy and sold them and happy for us. At what point you say we have to follow this up and what's the thought process there? We didn't have say anything. I mean it's interesting that aspect of it, because people say, well, how did you get so many great songs out of

the Beatles. The only one that we got was the first one, and that was the story I've told, But no question about it. I mean the Beatles you have to remember, took their role as songwriters very seriously. There's interviews if you look where you know. Well, first of all, let me say this, every interview we did, every interview they did, the question you could be certain was going to be asked is what are you gonna do? This is all over because the assumption, the confidence assumption, was

that a pop career was like two years. That's famous. You know, it's been following Ringdow for fifty years. I'm gonna want to hear a salon right exactly exactly, and Jona Paul would say, we will be songwriters. Their heroes were not only Elvis, their heroes were Governor King and Lieber and so that they mentioned that, they say, we that's who we want to be. And they saw that as a longer lived career then being a pop star. So and they knew that songwriting was specific. You wrote

songs for other people as well as yourself. And so one of the duties of a songwriter is to write the follow up, because you don't want somebody else cashing in on your hit and having it on your coattails. Because the follow up to a number one record, it's always some kind of hit, and so when we got back from a couple of early visits to America promoting well Without Love, um, we got back to England. Nobody I know was written with the bridge and handed to us.

No begging involved, no groveling, requirre, okay, just slowing down for a second roll. Without Love was a hit. I bought the album white cover on Capitol Records. When was that record cut? That's a good question, I would guess, probably between it being in England and in America. I'm guessing, okay, so this is before nobody I know, yes, yes, we had not yet nobody nobody remember specifically, here's I'll follow up,

cut it, put it out, because don't forget. Also, there's that weird thing that seems odd now but didn't at the time, that singles and albums in England were completely separate. The singles weren't on albums. Well, I certainly know when the battles I generally speaking, and I'm trying to remember the whole logic of it. But the idea was, no, it's like cheating to put a single on an album. The single is one thing, and then you make an album.

It's a separate entity. And that's where the Beatles said, and I think that's why we did it, except well without I probably was on our first album. So I it's a muddel. But you you thought of them separately, as separate ventures. So you you come back. Nobody I know is served right up to you record that. Yes, and of course that becomes a hit too. Yes, yes, that was a big hit too. Yeah, okay, and then how long till the next track? Uh? I don't know what was next? Was? It was iteces We should look

at the order of singles. I should know it in my head, but uh, because there were there the poll ones whose um I Don't want to See You Again was another poll song? But that was my favorite. The great course, the only people could write melodies and courses like that today. I know it's a good song, and I suspect I go to pieces was next. And that's the song we got from Del Shannon while we were

on the road with him in Australia. You got it how we overheard him trying to sell it to the Searches who were on the tour he we were touring with them and Dell and Dell had written this song which is a very undel Shannon sounding song. It's not his usual jangly, a minor kind of song, and and we overheard him trying to plug it to the searchers and then declining I think mistakenly because they could have made a really good record of it with their electric

troll string vibe, but they chose not to. And we overheard it and arstell if we could learn it, and he said fine, and torture to us, and we worked out a version out there on the road which we really liked. He liked it. So at that point we said formally, please put this song on hold, you know, tell your publisher or whatever you have to do. We will cut this as soon as we get back to the UK from this Australian tour, which we did. And when do you realize it's drying up and it's gonna

be over? Uh? It seems like a long time, but it was probably four or five years I suppose altogether. I mean we have to look at the list of singles, but I know d Of went dry a bit and then Lady could Dive. It was a huge hit, which was a song written by Mike Leander, who else wrote the strings for She's leaving home a very talented songwriter and arranger, and that was a big hit, especially in America, especially in Canada to actually, and more so than the UK.

And then Paul wrote Woman for Us and that was it, and so he kept going for a while. Then we made this album, A Hot, Cold, and Custard, which was our kind of weird, ose psychedelic album, which some of which I really like to this day. And it's become a kind of hard to get album. Is this incredibly tiny cult following. When I say called, I really mean or three people exactly, but it has its followers. And uh, but that didn't do very well. I didn't never hit

on it. So I suppose that's when started to things started to diminish. And as I've mentioned before, go then I never kind of broke up. We didn't have a we didn't give up. We didn't break out. We didn't have a terminal row like the Evely's. We didn't do a lost gig. We just both look kind of drifting into other ventures. He wanted to make a solo record.

I decided I wanted to be a record producer, and so on, how do you decide you want to be a record very first time I walked into a studio and saw how it was done, so how records were made, so what the producer got to do. That you could hire great musicians and give them ideas and tell them what to do and try to nurture them into giving a better performance and and stuff. I loved all of that. I fell in love with the process pretty much immediately.

I remember consciously thinking, this is something I'd like to do. So when it fades out with Peter and Gordon, you end up going to work for Apple at the record company as a A and R talent. Yes, yes, Um. I had numerous conversations with Paul. By this time he moved out, but we'd remained friends. Was he still with your sister? At one point during this whole process? He wasn't um And people always asked me if that was weird,

but I have no recognition of it being weird. So somehow we retend we just don't talk about that kind of stuff. My old friendship, um throughout whatever was going on, and and uh so I remember being Cavinish Avenue in his house and explaining the whole Apple concept and plan and which was largely years I mean, the other Beatles were on board, but it was his invention. And during that process he asked me, first of all, if I

would produce some records for Apple. He at that point you hadn't produced anywhere I had produced some What did you produce? The very first record I produced was and I owe this man a great debt of gratitude because he he'd watched the man in questions Paul Jones. Remember Paul Jones, lead singer of Manford Man, brilliant singer, Um, you know did the vocal? And do I did? You say? You know? The the band continues to be called Man

from Man. That was the key element. Of course they had the Springsteen covers in the seventies, but you always wonder whether they could return to that side. Right Well, the Springsteen covers was Mike Dab, but of course the originally saying it was Paul Jones who did do I did? He was just so one of my great brilliant vocal the bridge and that's a I just literally remember they were falling in love all that. We always just to

crack me up. As someone who's going to school. I knew we was following in lots and he would say it should be work right, um of originally the Excitis, of course, you know, but we all collected all these American records, learned the songs um Paul Jones was making

his solo record. Paul had watched me in some of the later Peter and Gordon records, of which I was not the official producer, but with which I was getting increasingly involved in the production, with John Burgess who was our producer, and Paul, who was also, by the way, one of the world's great harmonica plasses you may know, brilliant, extraordinarily talented guy now still great and um. He asked me if I would produce some tracks with him. He'd got a budget from me and my for a solo album,

so I owe him a great debt. And the first record ever produced was Paul Jones doing a cover of this song. I had chosen a b G songcle and the Sun Will Shine, and I wanted to make sure they have a really good band to my very first

ever production. So whatever notoriety that minor hit and the Sun Will Shine by Paul Jones has now is a function of the band I put together to play on it, which was Nicky Hopkins on piano, legendary studio Pianost brilliant, amazing guy, Paul Samuel Smith on bass who was the bass player and the Yardbirds who went on to produce Collie Simon and Cat Stevens and was a great friend

of mine. And then on guitar Jeff Beck taking No Chances, and on drums Paul McCartney because I was very familiar with Paul's drumming and I loved it, and I think I could probably get him to play on a session as like drum this because it would be a change of course. So I did and he said yes, Jeff back. I didn't know at the time, but I got to him through Paul Paul Samuel Smith, who was because at that point Jeff was in the band with Paul in

the Odd Birds, so that was the band. And we recorded two tracks, um and the Sun Will Shine and the Dog Presides, which is the B side, And was there any success with those tracks? The A side was a minor hit we going into the charts that he's something I think about and would you produce anything else before you have this conversation with I did more tracks with Paul Jones, and maybe Paul was aware of them. I'm not sure anyway, but Paul and I've literally been

in the studio with you. But to what degree were you selling yoursell phone? To what degree was he you know, already sold? It didn't occur to me, no, I mean when he offered me the job, I was not selling myself. I wasn't. I mean, no, he asked me the question one night, you know, how would you about producing Marx Apple? Of course I said yes immediately on what base as

he asked that. I'm not really sure, but I know he had played on one track at least he'd watch me work, So maybe that was okay, total left field. Because we hear all this lore about Apple, Yeah, we hear about magic Alex, Yes, what was really going on there? Um? Magic Alex was a fascinating guy, Alex Mada's Greek um sort of inventor. He he knew some real science. He was talking about stuff that science should and eventually might and sometimes now today can do. But he was exaggerating hugely.

In my view, he was kind of a bit of a fraud because he would convince the Beatles he could do stuff that he couldn't, you know. But on the then, some of the things he would talk about face recognition, voice recognition, a front door that would tell friends from foe on that basis, all of which he told Georgia aut George believed him completely, and John um not crazy, but exaggerated. And but he was a Charlottean he realized he was ripping them off in the end. Well, yes,

I mean I said delusional. He was a bit delusional, I think, and a bit of a Charlatan. And and I think I read that he died, didn't he last year or something? And ripping off? I mean, I don't think he worked away with giant gobs of money or anything. But did he love being part of the entourage of the Beatles? Did he love the fact that they believed him? And did he go overboard telling them stuff he could do that couldn't really be done. Yes, charlatan implies more

of a scheme than I think this necessarily was. I think he got carried away. Okay, so now you go to work for Apple. Are our submissions coming in? Yes, they took these ads. You know there was a print Dad saying send us to your tapes. You know we will listen, And and we did. I had four or five people working for me, um, sifting through these tapes and uh, and then I would listen to any it was any good and I would have a and m meetings with as many beatles as would turn up and

placed after them, and we never found anything. That's the tragedy. And that's what people don't realize. It was awful. I mean, the terrible thing is that when you say that, you know, the standard of what you get is just ghostly. And it would be, you know, reams of lyrics. You know that they know John is gonna want to set to music because they're so brilliant and meaningful, and they would

just you know, ironically, the paradigm maintains today. But at the time, since they're starting a label, do they all ultimately have the I vs. We're gonna become bad Finger? Yes, the ivys were running by mal EVANSA and what about Mary Hopkin and all those things? Did they did they have those from the get go? Or do they find those things marching on as things marched on? But early on in the process, Um, there's a story to each one.

I mean Mary Hopkins, Twiggy Supermodel to a back when there was only one Supermol was watching a television talent show called Opportunity Knocks, and she called Paul and said this is girl and is really good. He called me, said you should watch this, and I think by the time he called me, she'd finished him. Of course that was it. You couldn't watch anything again. And but she she got through the next week, so I was able to watch her next week Welsh singing a Joan Bays

song Beautiful. Paul signed her up, told us to sign her up. Derek Taylor and I and somebody else drove to Wales to meet with her father and sign her up, and he already knew the song he was gonna cut. He did this song, Those were the Days in a nightclub some months earlier, sung by an American duo called Jean and Something, and he filed the song away in his head. And this is the father. No, no, Paul, Paul, Paul, sorry, Paul, gotcha,

gotcha go. When we signed Mary, he'd already got the song in his mind that we were going to record would and knew exactly how to do it, so, I mean, which is remarkable, And he said, we're gonna do this song Those with the Days. We found the song. They said they'd written it, but actually they had written the words. It was a Russian folk song melody. But we did the song and Paul already knew how he exactly I wanted to do it. Well. The production was empathetical to

anything on the radio at that time. Yes, he wanted the symbol on which is that dring ring ring ring ding ding instrument, So like a zither you play with hammers, but like a hammad dulcimer. And um, he had that whole thing in his head. I helped him produce the record, but it was all his idea and there could be no follow up because, oh there was a follow up. What was the follow up? Pit, I can't remember what was next. The other hit she ended up having was Goodbye,

which Paul wrote a great song. Um. I have a version of that somewhere I did with with uh Natalie Merchant who loved that song too. Um, but I don't think Maybe that wasn't the follow up. Paul did all autum with her and then You'd Goodbye, and then she had a hit later with Tema Harbor, which was produced by Tony Visconti, whom she then married. I think I didn't know that. I think so I might be getting it wrong. I guess that's a great I want to

believe it's true. Thanks for listening to the Bob Left Sets podcast. I hope you're enjoying the episode so far. There's only so much I can get into a podcast. But if you simply can't get enough and want to know more of my thoughts on the future of the music industry, technology and current events, you want to subscribe to my newsletter. Now I'm not shameless promotion. Let's dive back into the interview. So how do you end up connecting with James Taylor? Uh? The James story begins with

Danny Korchma. Peter Gordon would be assigned a backup band on the US to US and and you know, you never knew what it was gonna be like. You'd arrive and and you know they so you've got a day to rehearse. Here's the band we booked for this leg of dates, this little group of Midwest dates or whatever. And the best one we ever had in a footnote was when we showed up in Hawaii and they hadn't

booked your Waian man. They brought music to l A and we walked in the room and it was the best back up and and we'd ever rehearsed within our lives. It turned out to be the Wrecking Group Um and the guitar player was leading the band was particularly good, and I made a note of his name and phone number, Glenn Campbell, in order to get in touch with him

later on. That's a digression. One of the good bands we had in America was a band called the king Bees, who were pretty good, and the guitar player was great, and I loved his playing. He was a big Steve Propper fan, as was I, and we became firm friends. Beyond the petermin Gordon era, Danny Korchby and I became close friends. I would stay with him in l a and so on, and he was subsequently in a band with his childhood friend James Taylor, a band called The

Flying Machine that was a New York band. They were not doing very well. They made half an album or something and the money got cut off or whatever. They didn't like their managers. They were suffering all the assistitudes in New York had to offer, including the fact that several of them was trying out and drugs, including James. The band broke up, James decided to go to London. He had a girlfriend in London he thought he could stay with, so he headed off for London. Danny Korchma said, oh,

I have a friend in London. If you're there, you should in touch with him. Peter Asher, he's okay. Gave him my phone number, so that's why, out of the blue, I gotta call from this guy with a sort of slightly Southern American accent who introduced himself as Danny's friend James, and I advantaged him over. He came over and played me this tape he'd made a few days before, which I went crazy over. Do you remember what songs were

on that type? Yes, something's wrong, something in the way she moves, knocking around the zoo, circle around the sun, and not sure what else, And he played me the j Then he picked up my guitar and played me some thing else for which one one of those songs wasn't on the day, and played me something he had

written more recently, and I was overwhelmed. I thought it was some of the best singing, the best guitar playing, the most original, you know combination, because he had a sort of folky voice and looked like a three chord folky. But then he played this complex, beautiful fingerpicking that had classical illusions in it. He'd been listening to Segovia and Julian Breen. He sang like Sam Cook. He played chords that had come from like Manhattan's records, and you know,

it was a ridiculously great combination. And I told him he was wonderful. And and then we had this conversation that was really was kind of like this the best of my regulation. I said, look, in the strange coincidence, I have this new job. I'm head of an off for a record label. I can sign people, you know, would you like a record deal? Um? And he said yes, please, and I love one, And I said great. And then I had to explain to him whose label it was, and said, let's come in the office and I want

you to meet everybody. And so I took him in the office a few days ag to met the Beatles signed him. He was he was the first act signed to Apple and the House shortly thereafter. Do you make the record quite quickly, I think within a month or two. We we spent some time rehearsing, we auditioned, we put an ad in the Melody Maker for a bass player, drummer and a yard. I mean that seems strange to me, especially since you hired the people for the Paul Jones gig. Yes,

I think we wanted to at the time. I think mine stint was that we needed a permanent band so we could go out and do gigs. And there was no in the band, no thought of bringing Danny in the Flying Machine over from you, not at that stage. Now I'm not sure why not. But so you had that ad, did you get reasonable people? Yes, yeah, we had people from the ad because Melody Making all section of professional musicians looking for work and vice of us and we auditioned. We had a guy called Luis Sonamo

to play the bass. Um Don Shin played keyboards, and oh we didn't have We already had a drumma because james best friend, Um Bishop of Ur, Joel O'Brien, who was in the Time Machine, was already in London um and we loved him, so we hired him. So we weren't looking for a drama that's right, We're looking for keyboard, I guess, guitar and bass, but I only remember the guitar in the basse play. It's all a bit vague, but we were hearsed a bunch of songs and that's

when they got ready to make the album. Also did a lot of preparation because I have this idea of doing different kinds of arrangements on each track. I was very anxious at the time, probably overly anxious the people not just take James as a another folky. So I wanted to make the tracks special in some way. And I have this idea that maybe getting so almost classical arrangements with a string cord head here and some horns here, and you know, percussion here would be a cool thing

to do. And I got this friend of mine, Richard Houston, who was the classical composing student at the Guildhall, I think, and a jazz trumpet player. I had played with him in a jazz band very I played jazz. I played bass very badly in a jazz band, and but he was a very good jazz trumpet player and a very good composer. I didn't want to use the straightforward arranger I mean Richard Houston enough in an interview I saw reading saying I think Peter hied because they didn't know

much about the Rangers. But actually, of course I did, because the Peter and Gordon records all ad used people like Jeff Love and very extremely excellent, totally competent popa Rangers. But I wanted to see clear of that and go a little more classical and different. So that's why I had Richard. But the point being, if you listen to that album now, parts of it seemed to me to be a little over arranged and overproduced in that sense, And that's why when it came to the next album,

I scale everything back a couple of things. Although for a long time that was my favorite record, was unavailable for years and was tied up in them all the after lawsuits and um, it has the segues between cuts, yes, and I still certainly believe that to her version of something in the way she moves that and there is on the Greatest Hits album interesting. But it was not successful in the market. Point it was. It got some attention, we got some good reviews and stuff like that, but

but no, it's not a it. So how does he jump from Apple to Warner Brothers? Well, we left Apple because of Alan Klein. A little bit slower. Yeah, when the Beatles you know, Apple was not doing very well because it had lurched into a million areas that we're not the Beatles, areas of expertise clothing, electronics with mad Alex and um film and television and all these other ideas,

and a lot of money was getting spent. And the Beatles had realized that they needed to bring in that they wanted to bring in a business hunt show to run the whole thing. We already had run casts running Apple records. We brought from Liberty Records. Who was We decided we needed a proper American record guy, and we knew run must be cool because he was married to Joan Collins. Just we thought it was brilliant and and Joan remains a great friend of mine to this day.

Ron is sadly no longer with us. But um, they couldn't agree on who this business concho should be. Paul was suggesting his father in law Leastman, very clever man, brilliant lawyer, and John Older this idea that it should be Alan Klein. He who Alan moved in on John somehow and John was absolutely convinced. He convinced the other two Beatles and in the end won the argument I knew about Alan Klein. I knew he was essentially kind

of a crook in my view. I knew him my reputation from friends in New York, and so I told James I thought this was a really bad idea and that we should leave if Alan was coming in Jane. James did have one meeting with Alan, shared my overall view, and so once we knew Alan was definitely coming, I resigned before he came. I think we do have a long term deal with James and Apple, though, uh, James had to deal with Apple. I didn't have anything I know, But how did he get out of that deal? Well?

He didn't really. I mean at the time, we just left. I took the Monster Daves out of the basement, um uh and left and I got it. What did you do with the tapes? I've got him somewhere, I think still this late date, Yeah, I think. I I mean we transferred them obviously at some point. Okay, so, but when they were a copy master, there were this But when you're going to shop the record shop a new deal, isn't everybody saying don't you have a deal with Apple? Yes?

They are, And I didn't know what would happen. Um, James did have a sound contract with Apple. I didn't have a sound contract with anybody. I just said, you know, with James and with the one of the first conversations I had was with Joe Smith Warner Brothers. We loved Warner Brothers because of their ads. That was the ear of the stand corn in text ads and it was so brilliant because the ads, and because that was where Janie was was where Againerson was on the young ones

that looked like home to us. Um, Mo Wahton. You just said to me, you know, why, how come Joe Smith. The answer was, actually at the time, I think Mo was or a prize and Joe was Warner with us, and I think it was my friend Joe Boyd, Who's who's the key character in the White White White Bicycles Want Bicycles and and uh exactly and and the incredible string man was on a brilliant guy which were also on Warner who was one of the sort of token

Americans in in London for many years. He ran this thing called U Foe that was the coolest club every week where he used to go and see Pink Floyd all the time and stuff like that anyway, Joe Boyd very cool guy. He he told me he was working with Joe Smith. I guess whatever. Maybe the incredible string Ban were Warner by Actual they were that that would be why then? So that was it. So I had breakfast with Joe Smith at the Continental Hyatt House. He'd heard of James, He'd heard of me, you know, I

prepped him for the meeting. He said, yes, we want to sign him. Yes, I think that album is great. And I said, well, there's one snag. You have to indemnify us against anything that Apple do. And he said done. And I think the get it right coming to you do that now would be impossible. And you didn't shop it anywhere else, didn't shop it. But I did say that's the one condition, because I don't want to spot from my the artist. I'm just signing as a manager

getting sued as soon as I do anything. And the contract indemnifies us completely against anything that happens. And nothing did. Nothing happened. And then, incidentally, I now understand that Aline did talk about doing us. I know he spoke publicly about it in his Playboy interview. Client's Playboy re view. He actually says he has sued us for ten million

each or something crazy. And and I did once get one piece of paper some kind of thing to show cause or some stuff that, um, right around the time I was getting married and where I was in London and got got served some papers the game to some English lawyer and was kind of a wait and we see what happens next, and nothing did. And but there was some kind of filing of notice or something. And I did read since then that might have been George

Harrison that told Alan not to sue us. Um the George said, no, that's not what Apple is all about, don't do it. And at that point Alan was still taking instruction from the Beatles rather than Um, so he didn't. So I believe that George Harrison that did her gratitude for that, who doesn't really get his do correct. But um, those songs on the Sweet Baby James, Yes were those written for that album, where some of them written previously, I don't think any of those existed before um, so

they were for the album. And you quite consciously wanted to make a more stripped down red Yes, and you make the record. How long does it take to make? About two weeks? Two weeks very very fast, got seven thousand dollars. Okay, we rehearsed every day at my house. Well, first I put the band together. UM. By this time I had met one of my greatest heroes, Carol King. I was a huge Governor King fan. I knew every

song you've written. And I also by that time I had the demos, the screen gems demos of all these songs and realized that I loved a piano playing. So Danny Korchma introduced me to Carol, who was a friend of his. I groveled for a while and then said, to look, I love your piano playing. Would you consider playing piano on this record? I'm about to make this guy James Taylor you don't know yet. She had not heard of him, and she said, yes, she would do that.

Would you mind, you know, because I know you're a very big deal songwriter and I know you're about to make your own solo record, which she was, And so I invited over to my house to meet James, who was staying there at the time, and that's when they

first met. So that was covered the UM. I found a druma called Russ Kunkle who had not done a studio session before he'd been really he'd been in the studio once with a band, some band that David Crosby had produced a single with I don't remember the name, and so he'd been in the studio, but he never done Countrified Uncle. I found him at a rehearsal of John Stewart. John Stewart whom you remember, xcor C and Trio,

great songwriter, cool guy. Never really forgave me. I mean, he joked about it all that, but um Russ was in his band, Russ Kunkle and Brian garofthel of a very good base player. Would John Stewart's band. I went to a John Stuart rehearsal. I loved the way Russ played and said to him, I'm about to make this record. You're the guy, because he he didn't play any Hal Blaine fills. All Blaine's genius, but he didn't play any busy, complicated fills. He played slow, thoughtful Ringo fills. And I said,

you're a big Ringo fan. He's absolutely And a lot of those films on that record, you know, some of the far and rain fills are direct Ringo rip offs, you know, which I've told Ringo and how much you know they're different, but stylistically you can see where they came from. Um and and so that was the drummer. I didn't find one bass player that I fell in love with. We used a couple of different bass players.

We used Randy Meisner on a couple of tracks, became an eagle, UM used John oh Lord John London on a couple of tracks, and then on A Far and Rain it's actually bread base Bode base. For that, I just asked that the people at the studio. I said, who's the great upright basse player in town? And they said, oh, you probably want Bobby West and I went okay, they said Bobby wild wild West. I went done, that clinches it.

He's obviously the man for the job. And so Faring Rain specifically, because I think it was James's idea to use a Bode based, not mine. Brilliant idea. And so for that one, we've asked who comes in with Bobby wild wild West on his base case and played beautifully and and we we I doubled the the Bode basse pot. The whole Faring ragn is no electric basis all that grinding bass notes which are then doubled to make them

kind of phazy and interesting. So when you're we're at the demo stage, do you realize Fire and Rain is going to be a big hit? I knew I loved it. I didn't think it was a big hit. Now, okay, so they didn't know what was The album is done. Yes, you're happy with it. Yes, you give at to Warner Brothers. What do they say? I think they loved it? I can't remember. I mean they yeah, they were happy. Whether they went this is gonna change the means business, which

it did, which it did, I don't think. But we're happy, Yes, and your recollection. How did Fire and Rain become successful gradually? I mean, uh, James James out doing every Kenny gig. I could find um club. You know, our ambition at the time, our definition success would be selling out the folk clubs. We could sell out Bedriend in New York, main Point in Philadelphia, sell the Door in Washington, Troubadour in l A. That was the big time. And if

you did sell Office's played there for several days. And in those days, if you play those clubs, could you end up in the black or were you in the red? Um? You can end up in the black because you didn't have you know, you and James on his own, we had no band. So that's how I first saw him at the cap at the Capital Theater in Port. For a long time we stayed solo and uh I would go with him on the road and there was just

him and me or so that's just him. We'd play college gigs where we'd get beds in the dorm because we couldn't afford hotels, and and Adam opening for anybody would have him. I remember one time got to mc gig opening for the Who, and people thought I was crazy, and maybe I was, but and and they were right.

I mean, not everybody paid attention. But for me, my position was, look, he's gonna be playing for like ten thousand people, you know, um if the front people pay attention, you know, it's more than That's more than we're gonna stay in the club. And they did. And it literally you'd be in the back of the arena and there's people talking and making drug deals or whatever, but you get near the front and gradually you suddenly are among these people going this is great. Who is this guy?

You know? And that's what How do you end up getting hooked up with Linda ron Stop. I think it was a couple of years later. Um James was already very successful. I was in New York and somebody I don't remember who said, you have to go down to the Bitter End and see this girl singers. She's amazing. They said, she's got the incredible voice, great singer, you know where sings barefoot and he's really short shorts and it's ridiculously hot. And I went to see her and

it was all true, every word of it. And and then I met her and really discovered she's one of the smartest, most charming, most interesting people I've ever met. So I was I was in love and and as singing was just so incredible, and we spoke. Then she was in the middle of making an album. Ah. I think initially we had a conversation about maybe I could help her with the production of the album, because I

got involved first as a producer. She was making halfway through the album that became Don't Cry Now, the first on Asylum. Yeah, she was working with a couple of producers who by both had been or were boyfriends UM John Boylan and John David Saltha, both excellent producers, but it was the whole thing was getting muddled, and the muddle of I mean your boyfriend, your producer and all that stuff was the thing had dragged on and got kind of complicated, and I think my first role was

helping finish that. And then we did talk about management at the time. Was Boylan still the manager at that time? No, Boylan was not the manager. Was Herb Cohen, Yeah, whom she had a Herb Cohone who managed Frank Zappa and his brother Mutt Cohen, the publisher and lawyer, right, which is one of the reasons herbcom could have affoord to be very ligitious, which he was, which he was because he didn't have to pay his lawyer. I mean he paid him in some other way, you know. They had

a piece of the company. And so no, Upcom was a lawyer and um the manager the manager. But I think they weren't speaking there were Herb become but as I said, he was lititios getting out of a deal with her Cohne would not be easy. No, it's not Um. And at the time I just thought dectarted managing Kate Taylor and produced the record with Kate whom I believed him very strongly. It was great, great singing still is and um so I think I said the time, I

don't think the practical me to manage you now. And but then Kate decided the music business at that stage was not for her, and you gotta Withdrew for a bit. And at that point I went back to Linda and said, look, if he's still interested, let's talk management. We did. She asked me to be a manager. Meanwhile, we don't cry now. Album had already come out, come and gone. I'm not sure of the timing maybe, and because in reality she

was totally nowhere. She had the hits with the Stone Ponies to those hits and then made records for Capital that did weren't successful. Well long long time was a solo it wasn't it. I thought it was Stone Ponies. I think different drum was different drums with Stone Pony whatever, But those were career She had one solo hit a long long time and and then was making the I think I'm not sure we get sold that somewhe and uh, but you're right. She then negotiated a way out of

the hubcoing deal. I took no commissions for the first two years in my wow, because he took it all. I think because he took it all, UM, something like that. I know it didn't make any money for a while, and a deal was made that because I said, you can't possibly pay two people at once. You know, I'm in this for the long haul. Let's get her about of the picture. So he got paid off, and and him then his manager and producer. I don't know what

I thyears I spose. So you ultimately make the record, the second record for Asylum, which ends up coming out on Capitol, which is right, which is a huge juggernaut, with the first hit being You're No Good? Um, how much credit to the arrangement and of that do we give Andrew Gold? I would say the arrangements him and me, UM and Kenny Edwards contributed a bit. A great bass player was was an original member of the Sun Bunnies contributed as well, So UM who found the song. Linda

and I both knew the song. I think lind had sung it before. I think she used to do it occasionally in a set, but in a very different arrangement. And I knew it, oddly enough, not from the original version, not from UM Betty Everett, but from the Swinging Blue Jeans who had a number one record I think in the UK with it, which I loved, and I then went back and of course I had Betty Everetts, but Swinging Blue Jeans were one who brought that song to

my attention. That record is really good. How long does it take it a cut? You're no good? I mean a few days. We tried it a couple of different ways, ended up doing a very constructed, kind of modern in that sense version. Andrew played the drums first. I think I think we mapped it all out in our heads, except that we had a sixteen bars section for the solo that was just blank. And I think you're saying we will think that's the record we and we left

it blank. We figured we'd put something in there later. And Andrew played the drums, a couple of guitar players. Ed Black played real guitar in it. Um and Andrew played the world it's a part and but it was very constructed. It was very much one thing at a time. We might have cut the track drums and guitar or something like that. And Kenny Edwards played the bass. That might have been our basic track, um, and it was all coming up just right how I how I meant,

And then we did. There was a point where Andrew and I said, okay, now let's make something great and we sat down and that was the two of us figured out that guitar extravaganza that was the solo and I was a very long night, um it was. It was on all night and um and and we tried all these ideas, you know, and Andrew played it. All the ideas were I think both of us, um, because I had a lot of thoughts about the different tonalities we could use, and so did Andrew. And he's brilliant

of that stuff. So that was totally joined effort. Then Linda showed up the next day like lunchtime. We were still there. You know, this was the what were we in the seventies and it was the cocaine era, and and Linda showed up all like scrubbed and clean, and we were all like oily and disgusting and and and still up and and but immensely proud, and we pledged Linda. And she hated it. She hated it. Her vocal was

already on it. She'd done a vocal. Okay, she hated it because she said, to you, it sounds like the Beatles, I hate it. And then what happened We said, well, it does kind of sound like the Beatles, Yes, but that was kind of what we meant, and we love it. Tried some other guitar players on this. We tried alternate versions of the solo. So how did you convince she

changed her mind? She she she After a day of trying with a couple of guitar plays, Kenny Edwards particular, we tried all kinds of other parts, and I was doing my best to be patting and encouraging and open. But eventually we played at the other, the older one a couple of times said we know you. She didn't know what you're You're right, it's great. I'm sorry I was wrong. Okay, but when it's done done, you know you have a smash. Yes I did. Um, I've definitely

had that. If this isn't the number one record, I don't know what is feeling. And the record comes out, goes to number one and then the rest of the album blows up. Yes, and you know, I'm sure you had no anticipation would become this big. No, we didn't, And the interesting thing was because that's when it ended up on Capital, his Capital of this bizarre deal where they got to choose which record to take. And I remember very well day Al Corey came by the studio

to listen to the record. That was his contractual right and and he at the time he said, um, when he had you a new good he said, I personally guarantee you a number one record. This is kind of a tu question about asking. Anyway, the record was a huge juggernaut on Capitol. Subsequent albums were on Asylum. Do you think that Capitol did a better job for you than Asylum? Maybe Um Salm was a great label. They did very well for us, no question. But was al

really determined to show them? Was there a moment when he told David Geffen this is the record I want. I'm going through this album and it's going to be gigantic, you know, And of course David, who's genius as we all know, came out very well out of it. All. You know, people are gonna how can you give away that record? He still made a lot of money off it. Al Corey and his team did all the work, and

I was one of the great promotion men of all time. Literally, you know those are He's the one who made Greece and Saturday Night Fever. Yes he you know, Asylum David's level did not have a promosion guy that good of that determined there was nobody that right. And I was a maniac, you know. He was one of those guys up on the phone at six am to all these guys, you know, on every Tuesday or Wednesday, whatever day it was.

I don't remember. There was a big deal, you know, and yelling and screaming and and just to go back to the delivered the so Geffen still had a piece of the record even though it was on capit. Yes, okay, that was something that wasn't going and and and and then also of course he had Linda, so of course for the ensuing He's coming off a number one album. So all of a sudden you're Mr West Coast. Yes, so you end up with you make a record with J D. Salther, Yes? And are you the manager there too? No?

Who else did you manage in that era? Um? Uh, Joanie at some point after Elliott, Carol King, at some point, um Randy Newman and a few other people, some of whom did were not successful. Um, it wasn't only it nothing is. But yeah, no, I didn't manage obviously because you know j D was part of Evings Empire and and but I produced j D. I produced Andrew Gold. You know, So how did you have time to be both a record producer and a manager. Had a very good team at my company. I had some great people,

cagill Ara Coslow, woman called Lorie, Gloria Boys and some others. Um, and I worked all the time, which I like to do anyway, I still do. And so how did it fade out? Um, Peter as your management? Well, you know, we didn't really fade out. I mean, that's the good part about it, actually, because I specifically quit the Rash management, I mean when it was still doing well. And um, Tommy Mottola offered me a job at Tony and I

took it. And at the time I sort of maybe half hope the Peter Rash manager would survive without me, But it didn't. And that should in a minute. So you you've just seen that move. Basically, the offer was so good. The offer was good. The was the one thing I haven't done was be a record company. And I did like the idea of not having to worry about whether you're gonna make money on you know the fact that someone saying we'll pay you a couple of million dollars and you get a big old expense again.

And that was the golden age when recompanies are making a fortune, you know, because the CD replaced me. Yeah nothing. They they persuaded everyone to buy their intact recordrection all over something they dream of. Now you know they could five one be it? No? So what what What was the experience like working at Sony? It was great? I

mean I loved it. I learned a lot um including he was learning that some of the things as artists and managers, we don't believe record everybody's were up to they were, you know, even the most obvious things that they don't tell you. Oh there is no priorities, you know, we working right And then now then you're in a meeting going fight for this one, don't worry about that one, you know, and some poor aunts is just getting pushed

off the desk. And then you go from Sony to Sanctuary, right. Yes, I left Sony when my contract ran out and was not renewed. I was a consultant for a few years, but ultimately was not renewed. And that then finally the Holmtola ear of course, and everyone changed, and then I was sanctuary for a while. Yes, and so but unlike many people of your vintage, you're still working quite hard. I am. So you're in probably involved with Steve Martin and his musicals. It saw us a little bit about that,

well that began. I mean, I'm in a friend of he's for a long time, kind of forever. I mean, Steve, let's remember open for Linda Ronson at some point and uh, but we would have been off and on, but we sort of renewed our friendship a bit in in in some way or another. And I was having dinner at his house in New York and he played me some songs that he and Needy Proquelled created. He'd written some banjo pieces, she'd taken them away and written some songs

kind of on top of them. So they'd co written these very good songs. And he played me to them to me over dinner, and I told him that they should make a record together. So this is great stuff. You definitely should make an album, and his how you should do it, and I said, don't make it like

a pure blue grass album. You can experiment with other textures, but let's yes, have violins on there, but make it like strings and you know, we can bring some other players and you know, not make it just a blue bross record. And I was actually on the plane home the next day when he emailed mes and you want to produce the album, and I went yes please, and well yes, yes, yes, actually emailed. I remember, I have

the email, and so that was that. We made that record for Rounder and I did what I proposed and was at esperanzispolding plane. It had little orchestral moments. I made it not blue dress and the album did very well, people liked and so on, and so that because that I made the second album, I got involved with the musical Bright Star, produced the album of the soundtrack UH Stays cost album and so on, and I just finished more recently probably Dross album with Stephen the step Steve

Canyon Rangers and so on. So because we found we really enjoyed working together, and I was music supervisor on the show and all this stuff, and we become even much closer friends, which is great. So I'm yeah, I'm doing all that. Not to the degree you can talk about it. What else were you involved? Well? Involved with

this Elton John project. Um, I did. Elton asked me to do a few years ago a cover album covering Goodbye ol Bick Road onto the thirtieth verse anniversary of that album, and on that one I got to work

with Miguel which was great. I did a track with with with Ed Sheeran, which is when Ed and I became friends because I sort of I didn't discover him in any sense, but I become a huge fan when he first made it in the UK before it happened over a year and got in touch with him and said, look, I know a good singer songwriter when I know, and you're it, you know you're you're it for this generation. I think you're amazing and you're going to be very successful.

And I got touched him through Elton who whose management company manages Ed and so on, so I ended up producing a track with him and a lot of other people. I love it and I forget it. El Spennyway, well that was sorry. That was a Buddy Holly tribute album. Monthly up to two But um fall that boy, a lot of other great acts and Elton was very happy with the results. So he asked me to do another album for this fiftieth anniversary of him and Bernie's Overall and the Ship, which is I've done a bunch of

tracks for that. Now I think that's not officially we're not officially announcing news on it yet, but lots of great people are doing tracks for that. There's a country version which I didn't go executive produced, and there's a pop version, which I did executive produced, and there's a lot of great people. So there are two different albums,

pop and country, and they're totally different tracks. Yeah, I think there's one song that's on both as op post to mut Lang, who made three versions of the same album with and Twain. That's right, yes, so generally does not cross over of songs. But also because if you look at the entire catalog of cross is a huge

collection of amazing songs just to choose from. So if we look at the you've worked with some of the most legendary acts, and I you know, they literally people overstate things in this business, but these are literally classic acts. Why do you think that acts have a period of success that in most cases is not replicated. Is it about the businesses about the talent. I'm interested in your theories. I think there's something about discovering someone new that cannot

be equalled, you know. Um so yeah, I've we did a lot of acts, would would do whom that would apply? I mean some of them, like Share actually did have two legs, you know, miraculously jogs. Although it's always people who don't write their row material to have that second leg, it's true, it's true. And Um, I mean Diana Rosso course, I had some very big hits with UM separate from and subsequent to the golden age of Dina Rousse and

the Supremes. So so two careers as possible. But I do think that there's something about that period of have you heard this guy or this woman? They're amazing? You know they did this that you know, when I did at ten Thousand of Maniacs and everyone discovered how great Natalie Merchant was. She's still great and people still love her and she still sells out all over the place,

or Stevie Wonder or anybody, you know. Inevitably it settles in to period of everyone knows you great, everyone comes to see you, but then not as instantly a new record. It must be said, you know, because they think that was your golden age and it may not be replicated. I also have a theory. You know, all the artists who have been successful are not fully formed people. They have holes in their personalities, identities they need filled through

the music and the adulation. And I believe they have a subconscious idea that when they become successful, their lives will work. And then when they ultimately do become successful and their lives are not ultimately any different, somehow they can't write that material anymore. Now that that suddenly makes sense, I mean, there is that moment because all the people who tell you in advance being rich and successful doesn't solve everything exactly, especially when you're an artist. Yes, exactly,

but tragically it doesn't. But in other hand, being rich and successful is a whole of better than being poor. If you're thinking all day about putting food on the table, paying your car insurance, it's great to have money in your box, exactly exactly. So so I think, um, I mean, all the people were talking about been singularly and amazingly successful, and and they all wanted it badly, very even when you know, in James's case, he was disconcerted by it.

He wasn't expecting it necessarily, you know, because he's quite a shy person. But did he deep down wanted Of course he did, you know, of course he did. You don't get famous by accident, You really don't. Okay. Another question, since you've literally lived through the whole arc, really starting with the Beatles, I'm gonna put a point blank and you can wiggle as much as you want. Is today's music as good as it was in the classic era? Yes?

It is? Yes. Expand upon that, I think it's partly nostalgia. I think it's it's uh. If you look at the number of brilliant people out there now making remarkable records I do, and people say, well, they won't stand out, I bet they will. I think it a two examples one other Mark Runson. Um, I look at it differently. I mean you especially talked earlier in the podcast about living in the UK with one TV channel, limited music whatever. In the sixties, the records were all we had, the

records and the radio. In addition, we had a homogeneous society is a strong middle class, okay, and the middle class values. There were all these things about saying no whereas today everybody says yes. One thing we do know, I would say, is is is as important as music is? It does not drive the culture the way it did. That's in the sixties and seventies. That's true. Now is it you therestion? Is it as good? I realized these are different questions. Is it as influentialized, old pervasive and

as culturally relevant? No? I think you're absolutely right, because it's so damn much of it. I mean, it's everywhere, and there's so much other stuff as well, and it's all accessible all the time, um, which is cool, you know, But it does mean that it's going to be really hard for someone to take over the world the way the Beatles did or something. And I don't know if

it's even possible. It seems like it's probably not actually, I think though, because uh Adele when during the CD era before it faded during one she sold ten times the number of CDs of anybody else, literally, yes, And so then it was positive by Jason Flamm, Well, is she's selling ten million in an arrow when everybody's selling one million in the arrow? When everybody was selling ten million, would she have sold a hundred million? So the question

becomes and what is she selling. She's selling very traditional things, songs, melody, good voice, and in a world where it's about winners and losers. Could someone be that big again? I mean no, because of the of all the diversions, I'm not sure, but I think someone can be bigger than we presently have. But anything else I'm not talking literally today, but generally

speaking that you're excited about culturally politically. I'm so happy that they're making great movies, even though we all thought television was taking over. You know, really, so you're more of a movie guy than a TV like both No, no TV. I love the fact TV has gotten great. I mean the fact there's so many great TV series, as you've written so convincingly and correctly. I mean, there's more great TV than you can possibly watch. Literally, I

mean like literally you've had it all day. But because of that, I thought that might mean the death of movies, And yet this year is three of a really really good movies. Well how do you end up seeing these movies at home? Where do you go to the theater? I went to the theater to see a few of them, I mean my favorite ones. Uh, Ladybird Florida Project three billboards, so Rolos the movie theaters, and they're all great. You know, Well, the problem becomes matter. I found a couple of things

when I go. It's so different from the seventies, you know, in in today, all the actions inside the house was supposed to outside. Yes, So in the sixties and seventies even eighties, you were in the house, I gotta get out of the house and you would go and you would go to have the theater. So now you're at the house and you're looking, well, the movie is starting at you know, seven thirty. I gotta calculate the drive point, and I find when I get to the theater, I'm

too revd up. I can't quite slow down and get to the groove. Whereas when I watched something on the flat screen, whether it be a movie or television, I'm ready to watch then. And I think when we go, you know, I think the movie business is upside down on this when we go to day and date at home, especially with a lot of excitement. I mean, like the new Star Wars movie. I have zero interested in that, okay, but if it had been day and date, I want to watch it just so I could run around town

to talk about. And I'm a huge Greta Girl Wig fan, Okay, and certainly if that am in day and date, I would have watched it first day, okay, But planning out the theater, etcetera, etcetera, it may happen. I mean, I don't know, especially as everyone's home set up gets bedroom better. I mean this new crazy Samsung TV called The Wall, and I saw that, you know the interested Yes, yeah, I mean wow, maybe maybe we'll never leave the house.

I don't know. Well, let's hope we do. But we do movies, great television and the Again, I mean, nobody says, ah, the movie directs is as good as they used to because clearly there are, you know. But the only thing is is we're in a different era, both in music and movies. It's not the tour era. I certainly remember you talk about the era when you made Sweet Baby, James, the deal with Warner Brothers would be you make the record, you can, they put it out with no input whatever.

That is not the world today. The same thing with movies, you know, do they would tell Delta what to do? I bet they don't write what about your I mean, they don't tell him what to do do they or do they? You know, all those deals are unique, and if you get enough power, if the movie is uncommercial, they always have something in the contract unless you find the money yourself. It's like, you know, what, do you Allen find some money himself. But these other people, I've

always heard different stories. But I mean, I know Terry Gilliams rand of mine and he's notoriously exactly gotten that battled multiple tact. But it's about I am very much about the pure expression of the artists. And even though we live in this collaborative era, I believe when it's singular, that's one of the great things about music in that you get the direct vision. That's what makes it more powerful to me than movies, because you get the collaborative

it's not quite as genuine. Frequently I think I do miss that here. I mean, if you work on the record now, you you definitely expected to be a and our involvement, and even if there isn't during you know that will be as dons is delivered the single or and all that stuff. And as they say. It's one thing to say where's the single, which one could say, okay, you need a commercial track, but when they start weighing

in on this other stuff. Yeah, it makes you crazy because they don't really know or the filtration system is so different, and there's such a separation between artists and business people. This is another thing that bothers me today because too many people will want to be business people. That's a completely different mentality. Yes, it is. No, you're right, I mean that is scary um, you know. And and they do it. I mean, I know they didn't even do it, you know. I mean, it's just's astonish you

when you think about it. If anyone's proved his ability to do it completely on his own and makes and not only that, not only for himself, writing songs for other I mean, the thing is unbelievable. Conventionally, go back to the uh the world of England. They would build people up to tear them down. Yes, the fact that Ed Sharon is not nominated for Album of the Year, it's criminal. It's I don't think the Grammys have any value.

But if you want any gravitas, they dragged the cool aid of the reaction, whereas this guy has literally the biggest song of the year. Yeah it's either that or Posito. No, but literally is the biggest track on Spotify. Still in an arrow, when there's so much song of the record, of the album of the it's the lemount of especial. Evil three is completely but he is. Stuff will be remembered when the Lord album has already been forgotten. But

in an arrow where everything happens at home. I want to thank you for coming here to Venice being on the podcast. It was great. We could go off forever, but we gotta let our audience go and you go. Thanks again, they have Peter Rasher for appearing here on the Bob Left Sets podcast. Until next time, my plice to thank you Bob here. I want to thank everyone for listening to this episode. Please subscribe to the podcast, leave comments and tell your friends we have some great

guests lined up. No topic is off limits. Go to left sets dot com and thanks as always for listening until next week. Don't know exactly