Pat Monahan

Welcome, welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Chats podcasts. My Yesterday's Hot on a hand of Twain. That band is going on the road with Bare Naked Ladies and Matt Nathanson and have a new single, The Weekend Pat. I read the lyrics of the Weekend. I listened to the song, and it seems like there's a message tell me what the song is about.

Well, Hi, Bob, thank you for having me on your program. I really am a big fan of your work. You're seeming to be the smartest guy in the music industry, and I've read many, many, many of your articles that I adore. So the weekend is I started singing, I don't talk about the weekend while playing on a piano because my life and I we we noticed that on the internet everyone is living this incredibly ideal lifestyle and

You know, I got that. But there's also the line go on and find yourself a watergate, And there's also the issue of I don't talk about the weekend. You'd already know if you're a good friend. I thought that maybe this was like a TMZ type reference where Hey, you know I've been burned. This is my regular life. You know that the tabloids and people online are looking to get me in a situation and publicize that. Is that a pure fantasy eater is at the song at all?

It's definitely in the song. I think everybody's always looking for a way to take somebody down. And I'm not really a famous guy, so I'm not really on people's radar. But if you are looking for somebody to lover hate, go find something because I'm not it for you, you know, Like that's all I'm saying.

Okay, to what degree are you on social media? I mean, not posting, but spending time going through TikTok Instagram.

Whatever I post, I post on Instagram and TikTok, and it's all very positive. You know. I have four children and have seen the negatives of what social media can do, and I just try to keep things super up and I definitely page through social media, Instagram and TikTok for comedy and golf, like those are my two things that I look for.

Okay, let's start at the beginning. Just by posting online, you get hate. Of course, have you experienced hat and how do you hope with that?

Well, it's changed over the years because you know, I've never been in the biggest nor the most popular band in the world, and so people have found many things to dislike about what I do and you just don't read it. Like I have friends that are in the industry and bands similar to mine, and they read it and it's terrible. It's terrible for them. Nothing is real, you know, Like if you're adored by five million likes and you have five thousand hates, like none of it's real.

So how good a golfer are you.

I've played some good golf, I've played some bad golf. My indexes at around a six right now. And I just had a lesson from a good friend of mine who's an older gentleman who has played in six Masters. His name is Rick Fair, and he really helped me with some things. I think I might be getting there. Do you play?

What I always tell people is I got a hold in one and I gave up.

Oh wow, I still don't have one of those.

Well that's a lucky shot. But I played as a kid. I was never good. And the problem with playing as an adult, I found is people take it so seriously. Yeah, I mean, you know if you're dealing with that coach that the pros play a completely different game yep than the average person, the way they worked the ball, etc. Unless you started at a really young age, you can't accomplish what they're doing. But I have friends and they're

Yeah, I heard something today. I was talking to a friend and he said his brother started playing before him, and his brother gave him one piece of advice when he started, and that nobody wants to be around an angry golfer. And I think that's great advice, Like just go out there and enjoy it and be happy that you're with your people.

Absolutely. The other thing is I don't have the patience to work on chipping and sand shots to the degree that you need to.

That's the grind.

So do you practice at that level?

I have started to because I It was recently in the Pebble Beach per the at and T prom at Pebble Beach and it was my seventh one and I played terribly. And I played with a kid named Jake Knapp, who's a really beautiful golfer, wonderful kid, and he said he gets the most joy out of practice, and I was like, huh, that's really interesting because I can only equate that to music, and music for me, I don't

So have you played with you know, supposedly Vince Gill is an amazing golfer and he was friends with Arnold Palmer. Have you played with any really good people from the music business on either side of the stage?

You know. I'm actually good pals with Vince, and we threatened to play golf every summer because this guy is like shooting his age and he's sixty seven now and that's insane, Like that's a different level of golf. So I'm hoping that I do get to play with Vince. But I played with a lot of really good athletes, really good professional golfers. Some Klay Walker have played with, who's a country artist. He plays good golf. There's a bunch of them out there that are really good.

So you had this lesson with fair Give me one tip that he gave you that was an insight.

Just to to narrow my stance. I've been told that for a long time, to narrow my stance, and I never really put all the pieces together because it doesn't end there. You have to move the ball a little further away, so you're reaching and I hit a fade, and narrowing my stance and moving the ball a little further away will help me draw the ball, and so you put the little pieces together. But it really helps a lot because I took that lesson to Augusta National and played really good golf.

And how often do you play.

It depends, you know. Sometimes it'll be three times in a week and sometimes it'll be three times in four months. It just depends on I try to take every year off of music, and every year I don't get off, so eventually I'll play some golf.

Are you a member of a club.

Yeah, I'm at a club outside of Seattle. My wife is from Seattle. So I'm at a place called Aldera.

Okay, what was the other thing that you said you looked for on social media besides golf?

Comedy?

Okay, so who's funny? In your book?

Comedy is the most important thing to me and my bandmates. Like you know, no one's interested in who's the new band or anything where, Like you got any gags for me, any jokes? Like I think our music is very much a romantic comedy. And so we do a cruise every other year and we always have a comedian on. And my new favorite living comedian is a guy named Rory Scovel and so he's going to perform on the cruise with us this year. He's absolutely incredibly talented and maybe

Yourself and you know there are a lot of comedians on social media. Are you on social media both to entertain yourself and trolling for new comedians?

Well, yeah, but I'm also I'm on social media to send the message of you know, like we have a new single, we'll have a new album and a new a new tour. So like I'm in Los Angeles now doing TikTok videos with kids that have millions of followers, because that's part of today's promotion or promoting what it is you're trying to promote. It used to be you

TikTok Okay, So your managers found these people. Have you done any yet?

Yeah? Yesterday I did one where I was on the back of a bicycle singing karaoke to my own songs in a neighborhood in Los Angeles. Earlier today I did one where I sat in these two kids kitchen and sang a couple of songs with them. It's just, you know, all these people have many millions of followers, and in New York I just did week of it. It's a whole new way of promoting. It's a wild game.

So since all these people are successful, do you have any insight into who these people are, what makes them successful, whether there's something there.

Yeah, there was one particular guy who does. He was in New York and he does he's incredibly good at Guitar Hero. And so here's a kid who grew up I think it was Denver. I can't remember where he grew up, but he grew up not in New York, and he was so good at Guitar Hero that he was like, I got to figure out what to do with this. So he goes on the streets of New York and gets people to play Guitar Hero to their

Okay, But a lot of people have been around a long time poo pooh the influencers, And there's a lot of influencers are just in it trying to make money. But some of them are very creative with good ideas. Have you encountered any of that.

Uh, yeah, they're not life changing ideas by any means. Actually, you know what, I there was one kid in New York that really was a very wonderful you could tell what a deep soul. He was prob twenty four years old and he just has one question, and that question is what makes you confident? And and it's a it's

Okay, as you've referenced, the business has completely changed. So song, let's focus on this because you're going on tour, etc. How long ago did you write this song?

You know, it's maybe been five months. Sometimes I have a song for a year before anybody hears it.

Okay, So in this particular case, you write the song in five months, five months ago. In the back of your mind, are you saying, I'm going to use this to promote the tour?

Well, you know, the truth is I I wrote you know, seventy or eighty songs and hence the practice, right, So, and then I finally hit the weekend and that felt like this is the record I'm supposed to make. So once that song happened, it was It wasn't this is the song. It was I finally found where I can drill now for oil like and that happens with a lot of records, like when we made Save me San Francisco.

Okay, you're one of the few acts its started in the last century who was still with their major label.

Yeah, okay, so a lot.

Of people go independent.

You know.

The nature of deals is they need to get renewed. Usually when the act has a mile on them, the label doesn't want to renew it. So you talked about the old yelling record company head in the old days. How do you still end up on Columbia? What is that experience today?

Well, you know, it's a pretty positive relationship because I don't want their money. They don't have to write me a big check for me to give them music. The only thing that I need them for is to get my music out there to people. And that's a very positive relationship for them as well, because they have the resources to help me if they believe in what I'm doing. And so they continue to believe in what I'm doing, they can try to expose this music because it's to

However, there is a sales minimum that they like to see. It's not a specific number, it's more of a vibe. Yeah, do you feel any pressure there?

No, because you know, in the last in the last year, we've reached like two billion streams on Hayesol's Sister, over a billion on Drops of Jupiter, and just recently over

Okay. And your personal view on streaming as opposed to the old model.

I've never criticized any change in the music industry from albums to cassettes to CDs to downloads to streaming. I'm very fortunate that I started when I started. You know, we just did a Billy Joel tribute concert and Billy was there. And you know, Billy started at a time when if you sold ten million records, that's a whole hell of a lot of money. I've sold ten million records, but it didn't equate into that kind of thing, and and downloads were you know, that's a different kind of math,

You signed an original deal, did you have a manager or a lawyer who renegotiated rates? If streaming, if you own the track, you have to pay a small fee, and if you wrote the song, you get all the money. Someone may not listen to you don't get any money now. Or you know, if a new act that's got a lot of social media viewership, they might sign a deal where they get fifty percent of the net. Has your deal been renegotiated?

My manager, Jonathan Daniel, who I think you know, has continued to renegotiate And the only reason we would continue to have a relationship with a record company at this point would be is if it's advantageous to me. And so I feel really confident that you know I have I have a deal with Columbia Records. That's fitting for

Are you a student of the business.

No, not really. I'm a man of faith in the people who represent me. And there's no one more wonderful and brilliant really than Jonathan Daniel. He's a very smart man, and his partner Bob mclenn is lovely and smart, and I just always feel like I'm being protected all the time.

Okay, you get a deal with Columbia Records just before the turn of the entry, Is anybody still working there who was there when you signed?

I was just there as funny, I was just there about a week and a half ago. And there were like two women that were there early days, but everybody else, everybody else has changed, and there were some people there twenty years ago, but not twenty eight years ago. So yeah, there were like two women that were there in the beginning, and then one radio guy and one radio girl who's

Isn't it weird though, that you have a longer tenure than the people run in the company.

No, I think that that makes me want to be there even better, even more. I think as time moves on and changes, so does the people. You know, Like the thing that I think inspires me mostly about making music is young artists and even not young artists. But you know, I always mentioned Jay Cole's he's the best hip hop guy out there to me because I love him so much, but he keeps making great work. That's

And what do you find interesting intriguing about j Cole.

I just think he's so smart, he's so good at what he does, and I don't know, he just seems like my kind of guy, like I'd want to be friends with him.

Many rockers are anti hip hop. Why is it just Ja Pole or are you really into hip hop?

No? I love Kendrick and Drake, and I mean there's so many of them, but you know, those three in particular, I think are just very gifted. Twenty one Savage is great. I don't know what there is to dislike about hip hop.

Well did you get into hip hop your own way or did one of your kids really turn you.

On to it? No, it was definitely me because when we do workouts, I make them listen to it. Like my son, who's fourteen, he just wants to listen to every heavy metal band around, like we listened to We just went and saw a Black Label Society. His favorite guitar player is Zach Wilde, like he's he's not in my world of hip hop. So I definitely found my own way.

Okay, so many acts who started in the last century who can sell out arenas. Most of them don't even make new music. Okay, Doobie Brothers put out a record every couple of years, but most of them they find it too frustrating in that there used to be a level of ubiquity and you have had that level, you know, you talk Drops of Jupiter, Marry Me, etc. We're people probably know Meat Virginia than any Taylor Swift saw and that's because it's a different era maybe. So to what

Well, you know, we do really good business, but it's never big enough. You know when I hear about people playing stadiums and I long for that, you know, someone like Billy Joel, Like I was, just like I said, in New York doing Billy Joel tribute. And when he was out with Elton, Elton kept making new records and he was like, Billy, you should make more records, and he said, Elton, you should make less. But Billy Joel

So the dream is still there. Oh yeah, you're not saying, you know, I got to pay for my boat, so I got to do now dates this summer, no let's go back to an earlier thing. You say you wanted to be positive optimism. Are you an even killed guide? Do you ever get depressed? Oh yeah.

I'm originally from Erie, Pennsylvania, So I have as much rage inside me as you ever want to pull out, Like it's an endless well. But I've also got the most amazing wife in the world, who's like, what's there to be mad about? Like, you're not a kid anymore, you don't you don't have to be mad at anybody, And she's right. So I just try to be psyched as much as I can, Like I hittingly complain all the time to my band, but they know that it's a it's a joke because like what a great life

So tell me about this rage being from Erie, Pennsylvania.

Well, you know, I was the last of seven kids, and in a town like that at the time, if you weren't an elite athlete or an elite student, there was very little opportunity for you. And that doesn't feel good to who is, you know, a creative sort. And so then I moved to Los Angeles and I was in a bad relationship and we had a child, and you know, then the anger just continues to move forward.

Well, your wife helped you. Did you go to therapy too?

I did a lot of that early days. Yep, I went to a great therapist for many years who helped me kind of appreciate what I've got instead of what I don't.

And what was the motivation to go to the therapist.

Well, I knew that I needed to leave a marriage and didn't have the tools to do it in a way that would protect my children. And secondly, one of the first things I said to her was I am currently a successful musician, which is what I always dreamt about, and I am never happy. And so she made me stand up and she goes now bend over and then she started clapping. She just said, you just to you just took your first bow, and I was like, yeah,

Okay, you talk about this time in your personal life, which obviously had turmoil in it. Were you also not happy with your business life?

No, I was not happy in the band that we were in. It was you know, we had a lot of rules to protect each other, but I wasn't being protected. The biggest rule was we cannot right outside of the band, and that was not a rule to protect me. That

Was part of the therapy, learning how to adjust your band situation, whether it be writing out or getting rid of members or anything like that.

Well, you know it. I naturally started to write by myself, and one member removed himself because he felt like he wasn't being paid attention, paid enough attention to writing wise, And then the next person had to be removed because he was creating a big problem within the band. So now there's just three of us.

A big problem because of drugs, ratitude or ability.

Yeah, it was it was addiction stuff, and it was just it was becoming too much for us. So now there's three of us left. When we get new people to come in, new managers and new everything, and it was, boy, it was just a rocky, rocky road. So I mean, there's so much story to it. But the therapy helped me to try to work on me, because I was really wanting everybody else to work on themselves to fix

Going back to the solo album, was it the wrong solo album or you shouldn't have made a solo album?

Addle I was it was I needed to make a solo album. I don't I don't think I would have been kept from that. But it was the wrong album. It was it was basically like a little bit more of an R and B train record, which was like why why? What was the purpose? And the purpose really was to get away from the band, But that's a terrible reason to spend a half a million dollars to

So when that record failed commercially, how did you handle it emotionally?

Not well? Hm, he's not good. But then I picked up the pieces and started writing the Save Me San Francisco album. And the people that I was writing with were in the Crush office, just like using space in the Crush office.

Crush Management, that's your management company. Yeah, just for those people who don't know, Yeah, Crushes.

Our management company. And I ended up writing with a guy named Sam Hollander. Loved Sam. He's a dear friend. And I also wrote with Butch Walker, who's now playing and Train. He's been a dear friend for a long time and has been managed by Jonathan and Crush for since the beginning. He was their first client. And I think both Butcher and Sam started talking to Jonathan and saying, hey, that that's one of us, and I think he's writing a really great record, so you should help him out

Okay, you justified about Jonathan Daniel a few times, and without making it specific, what's it there between a good manager and a bad manager? I?

Well, I have a specific story, but I'm not sure if it will get me in trouble. Okay, I'll just focus on the positive. Jonathan is someone who I've shared stories with about other people who have managed my career and the way they went about it, how lost I was, and that I just really needed, you know, kind of an emotional hug. And he has such a good way of when he sees that you're in trouble, whether it's business or personal, he makes it his mission to solve

Okay, let's go back to Eerie. What did your parents do for a living?

My mom was she worked for a place called Erie's Magnetics, which was a huge magnetic company, and she was she was in like the buying and selling of products and she but she raised six kids before she got a job, and then I was born, and she got a job. My father was a clothing salesman and a haberdasher haberdasher, and he was a very funny man, and I learned a lot of great things from both of them.

So what's the age range? If you're the youngest, your oldest sibling gets how much older than you?

My brother who passed away, I think would be seventy two, he was the oldest, and then I have a brother seventy one, seventy and then my sisters I think are like sixty eight, sixty five, and sixty two.

Okay, you have there's a lot of kids. Whenever you have more than one, especially three, frequently the youngest is the baby treated differently in multiple ways. Was that a factor you're growing up?

Yeah, My sisters babied me and took care of me and my second brother, second oldest brother, Jackie. He's still a very very close friend of mine who he was a father figure to me, so like he was the one playing catch with me and buying me baseball gloves, and when he went to college, it was that was my first taste of heartbreak, like having that guy leave the house.

Okay, so you're going to school. What kind of kid are you? You know you're one of the group. You play in sports? Are you the loner?

No? I was obsessed with sports. I wanted to be a professional baseball player. I loved Steve Garvey as my favorite baseball player, and I, you know, I was okay at it. I was, you know, pretty good at it until you know, you're fourteen, everybody's growing and you get into high school and I'm like, okay, I can't compete anymore. Basketball was never gray up, but I played all through high school or grade school. And I played football through my tenth year of high school and just got my

Well. You were in high school. Were you a popular guy? Were you the music guy? Oh that's the singer, that's the guy in the band. Were you class president? I mean, how did work?

No? I wasn't all those I was my one claim to fame is that when I went from a Catholic high school after tenth grade to a public high school, I just got to meet so many different people that I never had access to because at a Catholic all boys high school, you know, you're dealing with kids that are, you know, playing every sport at a high level. They're academic at a high level, and they're also you know, very sweet at a high level and very shitty at

Okay, did you have a band in high school that played out?

We started in high school and then you know those guys in high school ended up, you know, having different things to focus on, and by then older kids in Eerie started to see me sing. So I was in bands with twenty five year olds at seventeen, and you know, the like twenty five thirty year olds. They seemed ancient at the time, but they were five to ten ten years older than me. And that's when I really got my start. And the reason that I ever moved to LA was because I knew so badly I needed to

So you graduate from high school, where does that leave you with school?

I went to a college class for about a month, and one day I looked at the teacher and I said, I think I gotta go to I think I gotta leap down. I don't think I can be here anymore. And she was super nice. She was like, well, you can always come back. You're good at it, because I think I would have taken college much more seriously than high school. And I just I needed a move. And music was too. It was just too uh, it was too big in my art to pretend it wasn't there.

So how long after you graduate from high school do you move to La.

I was nineteen, so I had been out of high school for a year, and I literally like, I, Yeah, I got out of high school and waited a year. I went to La. I was there from nineteen caned twenty two, moved back to Erie to have a baby, and I just like.

That this woman you had the baby with, did you meet her in Erie or did you meet her in La?

Here?

And so when you went to La did she come with you?

Yes?

So you moved to La the only person you know you don't contact. Hey, you got to have a car, and b you have to have money. So you were making enough money as a musician to get out.

I literally went to Los Angeles on an airplane with four hundred dollars and a friend who moved there a year before I did, who He said I could stay with him until I found an apartment. I also had my brother in law. His stepfather was working a construction

Okay, let's go back a step before this guitarist in Shares Band says, you have the thing. Were you just playing in a band or did you have a dream to play at the level you're now at.

I had a dream always to get to another level, So moving to LA was a chance to, like, you know, I can't remember all the magazines that I would put my name in or look at, like Music Weekly or I mean there were four or five of them.

The recycler, music connection.

Music connection, that's the big one that I used. Yeah, And so you know, I would meet all kinds of people. Finally got a car, so I was driving to every audition with kids that you know. You know, it was just really really hard thinking that somebody out there is going to be who I'm supposed to do this with.

Out, Okay, how long were you in La.

And it's like two and a half years, and of.

That time, how long was the woman you married in La?

That amount of time.

Okay, you spent this time in Los Angeles, although ultimately you connected with the musician through your ex wife and her friend. What was your state of mind for two and a half years.

Oh, man, Like this is hard, Like I thought I knew how to work hard, but this is hard hard. But it was nothing compared to living it like then moving to San Francisco, finding a paint job, having a shoot one year old, and then playing music at night, every single night for free so that people would pay attention. That's another level of working hard. So I just you know, if you have a plan B, you'll take it. If I had a plan B, I would have taken it a hundred times.

Okay. When you were in LA, were you in any bands or nothing ever? Worked?

Yeah? I had a friend named Kevin who we would write songs and get together all the time, but he was always looking for like a bigger you know, everybody the thing with LA sometime well at that time, because everybody is like, you know, you'll do the thing with you, but they're always looking for a better thing, and and so it just it was just hard to find drummer

And how long were you back in Eerie before you went to San Francisco?

Maybe a year or if.

That, and you were doing what during that year?

Yeah, it might have been a year. I was hanging wallpaper and painting and trying to raise a little boy and and just grind men.

Were you playing music?

I started to sing with some friends of mine in a band called Exit, and that was that was like whatever, So no, no, not really, I just knew that I needed At that point, I'm like twenty two years old and thinking that I moved back to Erie and such a small town and they're like, well, the best singer of our time couldn't make it, and now he's back and he probably thinks he's a big shot because he went to LA And I was like, I need to

Me, Okay, because at the time and to this day, little things have changed in the twenty first century. San Francisco is the eppisiteer of music in the sixties. You're now moving there much later. When you went to La that's where it was happening. Didn't happen for you, that's right, But you must have really wanted to get out of Erie because going to San France Cisco was kind of going sideways.

Yes, But here's this is the interesting part of my observation of Los Angeles and San Francisco. Los Angeles is now when I was there, like the peak of hair dress up rock, right like Cinderella and Rat and like all the stuff is blowing up right before a grunge destroys it. And I moved to San Francisco, where the scene really isn't anywhere except coffee houses are like the big thing, and on every corner is a coffee house with somebody playing guitar for free because there's so many

So you're there. It's just you and that guy. Is it a duo at that point?

Yeah, it's me and a guy named Rob Hotchkiss. Yeah, we're a duo. So I played percussion, he plays guitar. We're writing all the songs. We're singing his songs and the other songs that we wrote together. And then the other guy who was in his band in La comes. His name is Jimmy Stafford, so he joins us them we're a trio. Then his bass player from the previous band brings a drummer from Durango, Colorado that they were in a band together, so they join us, and now

Okay, like time, it's a five piece band? Are you still playing for?

Yes, we got after a couple of months, we got like a couple of paying gigs for like five hundred bucks. We'd have to bring all of our own stuff. They would have a pa for us, they would mix us, we'd play for an hour or whatever, and then we would you know, still play for free, like go play wherever you can for free and try to get paid

Okay, when there's no money, it's usually very hard to keep the band together. Yep, Well it was your experience.

I had a full time job as a house painter until I left that job to make my own house painting company, and it was very successful. I bought a house. I had two children at the time. Well maybe she wasn't born yet, so I still have one. So I'm hiring my band to paint houses with me. None of them were good painters.

When you're cutting these demos, who's the engineer and producer?

Well, you know, early days, Dave Bryson from the Count Crows helped us out a few times he had a studio. We'd go to places like tiny telephone and you know, any anywhere that we could. Producers were like, we found a great sound guy that we loved, Egyptian guy named Hannie who I think he mixed us live and tried to engineer some stuff a couple of times. So whoever, Like it didn't matter, Like we just wanted to get songs on tape.

Okay, the band is togethered now from the time of high school on. Are you always writing songs or you only writing songs really when you're in San Francisco.

No, I'm writing early, but they're bad. I mean that whole ten thousand hours thing. It's no lie. You got to get it in. So I've written many, many bad songs, but didn't start to get better at it until I was in San Francisco. I started to So when I was in high school, the only thing I was good at is writing poetry. Like I was not very good

Okay, irrelevant of the well the credits. Let's say, in the first album, is that a way for people to get paid? And you really wrote the songs or did everybody really contribute the first album?

Everyone definitely contributed. I have always written all the melodies and lyrics, but all that music was definitely written by those guys.

Okay, So if you get this guy as a manager with Bill Graham, he's the manager, how long till it becomes something more?

Till the band becomes something more?

Yeah, let's try to put a day down. If you can remember, what's the year we're in When you get.

The manager, Oh boy, I would say, man ninety ninety five.

Let me ask a different way. How long from the time you get the manager to the first album was released?

Maybe three years because Arnie could not get us a record deal. He nobody was interested and we didn't sound like anybody else. Yeah, grunge was really popular, but then all of a sudden, like Hoodie and the Blowfish and Dave Matthews start to come out, so there is a trend towards singer songwriter more. But nobody wanted anything to

Okay, the album that you recorded for twenty grand twenty five, yeah, is the identical album that Columbia puts out.

We added one song with Matt. I don't remember Matt's last name, Matt. He was such a big producer back then, Matt Wallace, So Matt Wallace Records a new song that we wrote because Columbia wanted a little more tempo on the record. I don't even remember what the name of the song is. So we added one song to it. Other than that, it's the ex album.

Okay, I love that album. That album doesn't sound like it's cut for twenty grand, you know, it sounds like it is a major label album. Why did it end up being of such quality?

You know, there was no auto tune back then. I had to re sing. I wanted to quit during that record so bad. I mean, the guy producing us, you know, he had never done it before, and he was as lovely as he could have been. Uh, but I would sing and before I would even sing the third word, he'd be like, pitchy, stop tape, man, this is visery. So we just worked so hard, man, I mean every bit of this. I'm exhausted from telling you this story, like this is this is so hard, and we just

Did you believe these songs were good?

Well? I think we believed from watching our audience that we had something. I'm never sure of anything, Like I'm not a very confident fellow when it comes to creating. Like if I create something, I need a lot of backup. You know, if I play something for my wife and she's like I love this, I need fifteen other people to say the same thing before I believe it. And so people were loving those songs, so I felt like there had to be something special there.

So for me, the two best songs out of the record are Free and I Am.

I Am. Yeah, that was the first song we ever wrote. Really. Yeah.

Did you think Meet Virginia was a single or did the people on the business side say it was a single?

I think maybe we thought it was a single because it was so weird and weird Wins. We didn't really put those pieces together, that weird Wins, but like, hey, Soul Sisters, that sounds weird, man, and I think that was the beginning of us finding a thing, a lane of like we're not anybody else, Like Meet Virginia is just different. It's weird.

Okay. Do you think going with ladder Men helped or didn't help?

No, it helped im mentally, like he cared a lot Greg. Greg had a lot of other projects going on, so much of that time. I was not a fan of Greg because I felt like he wasn't keeping his eye on the real prize, which was trained. I feel like he was wanting some of his other things to exceed where we were going, and that bummed me out. So I felt like he needed to be managed a little bit.

When we met previously, which I mentioned before we started the podcast, we were on the street in front of the Viper Room where Tim Divine. Tim Vine said, who signed you? Because I knew, I mean, I know Divine forever, but let latterman it hype me that it was his record, and Divine this little pissed off and he brought you. There were two other members of the band, z Dio who signed you? That is Jim Okay, this first record happens? Does the same manager continue? Yes, the first record, as

Rob? When we started the band, you know, thinking about names, he listened to an interview one of the members of Echo and the Bunnyman said there was nothing romantic about America, and Rob said, I feel like the most romantic thing about America is the locomotive. Uh. And he was right. It's a romantic, beautiful image. And so we just worked with Train for a while and didn't think we'd ever get the name. But there was no other band called Train.

Okay, the artwork from the first album, that theme continues. Tell me about that.

Yeah, the theme. Uh. So the artist was from Orange County. His name is Tommy Doherty. Kind of a crazy person, but a beautiful artist like this guy's work was just tremendous. And Charlie, our bass player at the time, found this piece of art, which is a massive like it was probably twelve by ten this painting, and it the boy looked like a king and a jester at the same time. And we felt like that's who we are as a band. We feel like we're special and royal, but were also

And how did you decide to continue? It is to be in You know, a lot of people don't.

Well, the second record has a boy with a crown because we Brendan O'Brien took on that record to produce it. Because Limp Biscuit bailed on it the last minute, so he had a spot open for us, and it was

And that's why, Okay, first record, Little Engine that could. Hey, how much you're gigging? And did you make any money?

You know, when I got a record advance, I paid off all my credit card. That was it. But I was losing tons of money on that tour because I went from owning a painting company to making four hundred dollars a week. That was not sustainable and it caused a lot of problems financially and personally. And that record advance was long gone because I had so much debt

Okay, at what point do you decide it's time for a new album? Is it the manager, is it the band, is the label? Have you been writing songs? How does that go down?

Yeah, all of the above. Like, you know, the more music you can get out and the sooner you can get it out, you know, you can capitalize on whatever momentum you have. And we had an album done, you know, after a while with Brendan, and it was called something More that we had written on tour and then after tour and drops the Jupiter is not on that record because it hadn't been written. And Don Einer was like, we don't have a first single, and you're like, we

How close was the demo to the finished record?

Very very close, except Chuck Levell on piano, He's a whole other animal, like he gave it the bound bound down like you know he he plays piano like a drummer like he should, and uh, he gave it life. How did Chuck get well his his recording abilities? He's an incredible engineer, like he makes things sound incredibly good. But the song was already arranged and done and the

I want to go back a step. Mead Virginia ends up on MTV. What was it like when you saw the video for Mead Virginia? You know, it's like hearing your song on the radio.

It just always felt like a you know, a little song in a big world. Like the video was little, the concept of the song was little. It wasn't like a you know, it's a beautiful day, you know, like not one of those kind of songs it was. It was just a quirky little song that just popped through the surface.

Okay, Donnie says old song of the year. Are you on the Train? Are you a believer or you a cynical?

Guy?

Said, well, at least I don't have to write with other people.

Or what I am. I'm like, wow, I'm so relieved that he thinks this is the song. And then I'm like, this is so not the song. Like there's no song out there like this song. This is not the song. And so the first time I heard it, I was actually in eerie driving home and I heard it on a like a college radio station and it was four minutes long, and I was like, no one's gonna like this. And then the girl came on afterwards and she was like,

Go Okay, drops. The Jubiter was gigantic. Did you feel that the band had made it? Did it change the perception on the inside it?

You know, there was a moment where I felt like maybe we had made it. We were in we were in Oslo, and there was a festival happening, and we were scheduled to play, you know, and at the time of year, the sun doesn't go down, so it might have been like midnight and I'm walking to my hotel and I see Chris Martin and he's standing outside of the hotel and I keep to myself because nobody knows me and I don't want to gush all over the guy.

The next album, Man's Calling Old Angels, How's that written?

Calling Old Angels was through my therapist because while I was in there telling her how unhappy I was in my success, she said we all are made up of two things, and that's traders and angels. So it's time to call your angels. And I was like, consider it stolen. And then I wrote a song about trying to call angels to help us through this stuff. Okay, we need more than angels now, Bob.

That's true. Sure, that's a separate subject. So when do you see any money?

Donnie helped us. He found a manager that he liked to help us move forward.

Okay, first wife, you say she gets all the money other than child support? Was it one lump sum and then going on? Or do you have to pay her forever? It was for a very long time. Yeah, how do you meet your second wife?

I left my marriage in October of two thousand and three and we did a residency tour where we were playing like three nights and like a dozen cities, and we went to Seattle and played a place called the Crocodile. This isn't May now. So I left my marriage in October, went right to Australia, toured, came back and that's to May. We're doing this residency tour. My last thing on my

Sure.

So it was actually her mom that made her go to the show. She's like, we're going in, and my wife was like, I don't want to go to the show, Let's just go to dinner. She's like, no, we have to go see the show tonight. There's no tickets, Mom, it's sold out. Doesn't matter, We'll find tickets. And the only reason my wife was in town at the time, she was living in San Diego, is because it was

How long after you that gig at the Crocodile do you get the apartment in Santa Monica?

It was just a few months. I because I had to be in Eerie to be with my children, and I decided because of how unhappy I was with the band, I wanted to pursue acting. So I was like, why don't we move to La so I can pursue acting take acting lessons. I have enough money that I can pay all my debt and we can have an apartment there and live an okay life while I figure shit out. And so we lived there for a year and then bought a house close to where her parents live.

Okay, where do you live today?

I live in Washington State, right across the street from her parents, literally fifty fish and they're they're like my closest friends. It's a really.

Okay two kids from your first they're out of the house. What are they up to?

So my son lives with his mom in Erie, Pennsylvania, and my daughter lives in Washington State, a couple miles from me, and she's she's over a lot.

You live in Santa Monica taking acting lessons? What'd you learn about the other side of the fence? Not music but acting TV movies.

It's really hard. It's really hard because I can pretend with the best of them, and I can remember what I write, but trying to remember what somebody else wrote is really hard for me. I don't have a photographic memory or anything. But I got pretty good at it, and I ended up in a couple of TV shows, but that was after Hey Soul Sister, and like I was, you know, back on the horse of you know, doing business again. But I don't, you know, the acting thing. Nobody ever beat my door down to try to get

Okay, you make another album. There really isn't a hit on it. How does that feel terrible?

That was I didn't want to make that record. I didn't want to make that record in Atlanta. We did not have the goods at all, and it was very disappointing. We don't play any songs from that record. It was the end of the band for me. It's You happens to be a few of my friend's favorite album, not mine. It's a period of failure and like leftover sadness. You know, I needed to move on.

Okay, when you go back to the studio again, you make another record, You're working with a ton of different people. What's going on there?

You mean my solo record?

No, I'm talking about Save Me San Francisco.

Oh, save Me San Francisco. That so, yeah, we go from we go from for me, It's You to my solo record that doesn't you know it wasn't the right record, and then sam Me San Francisco. Then it's like the rules of you can't write in the band are way over, Like we got to get back or this is over forever.

You have your career. But alongside of that, the business is changing dramatically. Okay, it's consolidation in labels. We have Napster or ultimately Spotify comes along and rescues the business. But as we stated earlier, nothing is ubiquitous in the same way is at the beginning of your career? Is that palpable? Do you feel the game has changed or are you still saying, hey man, you know I got to write a hit that's going to get out every radio for about etc.

So a radio hit, I don't even know if that's the thing anymore. What you really need to do is focus on social media and if a piece of your song gets viral, then radio stations will start to play it. But do people listen to radio? I mean, I listen to like Serious XM, but it's rare that I would listen to a channel that would play what I'm creating. I don't know what does. I don't know what the chances of success are. I think at this phase it's more like the way I make a living is through

Who are train fans?

You know, they're pretty great, normal, loving, wonderful humans. And we do a cruise every other year so I can be closer to them, like many of them have my phone number and email, and we support each other. They are responsible for me having a great life, and I'm responsible for the music of some of their greatest memories.

In terms of gaining new fans, can you feel it? How do you do it? I mean, obviously we talked earlier doing all these TikTok things. Do these work or is it the same core who grew up with you?

No, it's it is. So this is an interesting thing that's happening. So, you know, heavy metal and hard rock is making a huge resurgence, Like my fourteen year old son is obsessed with all of it. And there's also what train does. There's a nostalgia movement where kids who grew up in car seats listening to their moms and music are falling in love with it as teenagers and twenty year olds. So we find that every tour we

Okay, you became a favorite of Howard Stern and you did ramble on on Howard Stern. That's a cool thing. Do you think that enlarged your audience Howard?

Definitely. I mean I still go to many places, and we haven't been on Howard in a long time. I was on when Ralph passed away briefly, but we haven't been on for like a new album or anything in a while or had a long conversation. But so many people are like, I love you on Howard. You know, when I met Howard, he was still on k Rock, and then years later when he was on Serious, we

Okay, you know Fred Astaire famously really had no friends. Then there are other people Sammy Hagar. He knows everybody and stays in contact with everybody. Where do you fit on that continuum?

I'm I think I'm closer to Sammy, like Sammy's palmine, but I'm way more careful about who I would want to be friends with, especially in the music world. I my closest friends are through Golf. I love and trust them. We come from different things. We want nothing from one another other than friendship. Sammy wants nothing from you other than like, come and sing with me because it's fun.

On a tip of day. Are you in contact with other high profile celebrities musical celebrities we leave the golf people aside? Or is that more of a rare thing.

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not a celebrity. I'm not really in contact with a bunch of celebrities. Like I probably know more professional athletes than I know, like I don't.

I know a.

Couple of actors, But like same lost its interest to me a long time ago, Like I used to long for it, And when Chris Martin's career was going like this and he was getting famous, I was jealous of it because I thought I want that. And now that I'm not famous and I don't have to deal with all that, I don't really want anything to do with it. And I don't like seek famous people out to hang out with them. I'd love to be friends with Killian Murphy because he seems like just such a cool guy

Will you email or text with Howard or just when you know Gary reaches out in order to have you do something, No.

I definitely I will rarely because I know that he complains about you know, like I. He talked about Drop's Jupiter turning twenty five the other day, and so I just sent him a note saying, don't respond, thank you for the love. I hope you guys are great. I love you, And then he didn't respond, so I let him off the hook.

So he's, like Chris said, doctor Respot, he's got a lot of people looking for He's got his own life. What's your favorite led Zeppelins?

You know, I talked to my son about this because we debate about it, and I think it has to be the Rain song. Really Yeah, It's just got so many different layers to it, and the vocals are great. I love the lyrics, the everything Jimmy Page is. It's it's just a magical song. How about you ten years gone? Oh wow? Interesting. Is that a physical graffiti?

Yeah, you know they got those all those they got Cashmere ins one side back in the vinyl days yea, in my time of dying, yeah, ten years. I love how it goes from quiet to loud, which ultimately Boston I won't say Ripped Off was influenced by, and that's how they created Long Time. I know it soars and then it goes acoustic, etc.

A great song. Yeah.

So basically at this point you're training, you call all the shots.

Yeah. And I have great friends that share the stage with me that I try to be as generous as I can too. And but you know, having a business partner, I've learned just the hard way that there's resentment and other things that come into play that I don't want to deal with and I don't want them to have to deal with it. So just allow me to be generous and don't ask me to be a partner because that kind of relationship I've not been very successful at.

So how many dates do you want to do a year?

I want to do none. That's not true, you know, I think one hundred dates is quite a lot. I think will be about one hundred this year. I'd like to I'd like to work less and make more money. Like to be honest, i'd like to play who would I know? I want to play bigger venues and play less of them, like I think having fifty, we'll see I need more than fifty. If you're going to play Europe in Australia, if I could play seventy shows, I think I'd be psyched.

Who's your agent?

It's CIA. Now we just went back to Rob Light and the guys at CIA.

Okay, so listen, it's a business. So like you're going out with beer naked ladies and Matt Nathanson. How does that come together?

It usually starts with Jonathan's partner Bob McLynn. Like Bob, they'll they'll run a bunch of people by me and ask you know what I think of this? Like we went with Rio and that was very strange to me, and I was like, yeah, I mean I love their music. Let's see what it's like. And I had the time of my life out there with those guys. And I know the bear naked lady guys. I know they're great guys.

Okay, you do the cruise every other year, do you have any problems selling? Do you have to work to sell the tickets? Or you got these fans, they're coming. You don't have to worry about selling.

No, they sell in pre sale. Like. I don't even think we would need to put a roster of performers up. It's just become something that people want to do every other year. Every year would be a little harder because you know, you do have to keep in mind that it takes time. You got to fly to Florida, you need to save money to do these vacations, and so every other year has it's been easy for it to sell. I don't have to do any work. Well.

A friend of mine managed kid Rock. Let's not get into the politics. Kid Rock. Hit Rock did a cruise and he said, yeah, everybody would get to meet him, and then he said never again. Because he hit you know, the whole time. He's the star of the cruise. He could never sleep.

What's your experience, my experiences, We've we've figured out a way and this is a real thing that if you see, we got away with it for a couple of years. If you sign up on the pre sale, you get a picture with the band, and plus we're working our asses off this whole time. Man, I'm like game shows and judging things and everything you could think of and the shows that we perform. So if you sign up in pre sale, you get to take a picture with

Okay, you've mentioned you recently did the Carnegie Hall Billy Joel thing. Do you feel like, oh, yeah, you know I'm going through you know, my manager calls me, I have an oping I'll go, or you have some imposter syndrome, saying wow, I can't believe they called me. This is great.

I have two great stories. Bill. Billy and I sat together at Howard in Best Wedding and I didn't really talk much to Billy because I'm such a big fan. I didn't want to say anything stupid, but I love being with him, and I was like, Billy, if you went and sang always a woman at this wedding right now,

And that's his personality. Okay, you're a songwriter, but you're rademark is your voice. There are people like Paul Anka he could still sing the way he did. There are a lot of people household names really can't hit the notes. Yeah, are you fearful? How do you tweet your voice? You fearful of losing it?

No? I mean, you know it's gonna be here as long as it'll be here, and I just have to keep doing. But I do to take care of it. Exercise, esteem, the stuff that you can control. Stress, I think is what really. You know. I had some vocal cord surgery years ago. It was all stress related like that and singing too many of Zeppelin songs.

Okay, what song do you enjoy most playing on stage?

You know, drops to Jupiter just because my mom sent me that song and probably wrote it for me. It's always gonna be the most important, But right now I love performing the weekend. It's a song. People don't they're not all that familiar with yet, but they seem to love it. Live and new is always fun for me.

Okay, Pat, I think we've come to the end of the feeling we've known. You've been very honest and forthcoming. You're a sharp guy. I want to thank you for taking this time with my audience.

Thank you, Bob. You're great at what you do. Man, I appreciate all the questions. You're good at it.

Until next time. This is Bob Left Sense.