MicK Jones

Hagar was with Jeff. Yeah, so I go a long way back with Sammy to the days when he was in a bank called Montrose of course, Ronnie Montrose. And how did you know him then? Because I we toured with him. I was in a band called Spooky Tooth of course. Uh. And I came to the States basically around seventy three, seventy four. I've been before, but to to settle down here right way. And I remember on the drive up to the studio he said, Mike, he said, you and I have been through some pretty wild times,

you know, they said, but not like this. He said to get ready, and that was his kind of warning that I was about to enter into this different kind of world. It was it as different as he built it. Um, not really, but you know, I've had I've had quite a lot of experience in the in studios, you know, so I was kind of ready for anything. And it was just I mean, they they had their their repertoire down the songs really, so when you went in there,

they had all the songs. Um. Yeah, there were a couple of a couple of like dream dreams, and I worked very intensely with Sammy on that. Vocal performances are my sort of specialty. I can get seemed to be able to get the best out of people and okay, a couple of things. So was it a clotner? Of course Sammy was on Geffen, whose literal idea was to get you involved. Um. Well, I think Sammy was something

to do with it. Um. I can't recall having an explanation for it, but it was I think, Um, he felt that I was a good choice as far as you know, um, the vocal performances on the songs, and he I believed in me, I guess as as Okay, well, I guess Ted Templeman had done the David Lee Roth records. This was the first record with Sammy Hagar, so it was a whole new thing. So what was it like? How much input did they let you have? Um? Pretty much, I could say what I wanted. I wasn't restricted or

intimidated by anything. Um, it was for me. It was branching out the first kind of major project I've done outside of a foreigner, you know. And there was you know, they had just gone through the departure of David Lee Roth, so there was an air about it that said, we're going to show him kind of thing, you know, and and I picked up on that. Uh. And I've I've met David before, you know, and always got on quite well with him. But uh, Sammy had to fill We'll

not fill those shoes. But it had to be you know, pretty rock into you know, to do that first album

with him, and I settled in pretty quickly. Again. Um, there was an engineer, Don Landy, who had done most of their hed, done all the engineering with Ted Templement and so I was I realized what I a little bit about what I was, what I was getting into, you know, And there was a little animosity there because they hadn't they were breaking away from Ted, and I believe Don Landy was sort of assumed that he was going to take over the mantel. So that was a

tricky little period. But ah, as the project went on, I think we started to develop a respect for each other and we ended up being the best of friends. Wonderful engineer. I was so happy to work with him. You know, he did some classic stuff and he knew what he was doing, and you know, it was very much an analog type album in the studio up at Eddie's, and uh, it was it was I'd say, I heard

about their father. I don't want to go too much into the family roots, and he came up to the studio one day and the brothers were kind of fooling around and it turned into a bit more than that, and their father was kind of geeing them on to kind of fetified with each other and kind of like cheering them on and say get him and all that kind of stuff. Really yeah, I mean he seemed to be a perfectly nice guy, you know, I know he

was apparently a good musician too. You know, my favorite song on that album and you may not have stories about every song is best of both worlds with the dynamics. Can he tell us anything about that? Um well? Actually, one of my main thing areas I thought could be improved upon was the drum sound, which I had to be careful because I didn't want to change it right, but I wanted to get a better sound that would kind of a nucleus for the others to the playoff.

Slightly different approach, you know, I you know, not to concentrate on the on the drums, but they are the foundation of everything, and I felt that I could bring something a little bit extra in that department. And but working with Alex, it was it was an experience. You know, he's a fun, crazy guy really, and I hear he's doing well these days, you know. You know, I know Eddie, I don't know Alex, but I know that Alex is really more of the business guy. I hear he's doing

pretty well, but I I don't encounter him. Yeah, but were you talking about making the drums differently or having him played differently, No, not play differently, more more of sound wise, you know, And was he amenable to that or was he like, hey, don't mess with me. Um Well, he didn't hear it, you know, completed until the album was almost complete and the mixing was that was really the moment of truth and he said what he said, drum sounded great, man, Okay, thanks okay, And uh, what's

your favorite foreigner song? Mm hmm, Well it sounds corny, but it feels like the first time was the one that started it out. You know. It was the first song I wrote for for for a band which I didn't know anything about, and I when I kind of put the band together, I still didn't know what we

were gonna do. Were we gonna do it as you know where We're gonna form a band that was respectable and good and could maybe sell a few, you know, records, And so that was very uh that that I was listening to an album that Lou had done with a bank called Black Sheep back then, and I was listening to the little demo I Don't Have feels like the first time, and I suddenly heard the band. The instrumental track was through you know, channeling him somehow, and I thought, well,

he might be the voice that I'm looking for. Okay, so he wasn't in the band when you've written the song, no well, all I remember is I remember hearing that song on the red This is you know, people talk about certain things, one about hearing a record in a radio, record record in a record store and then buying I had that happened once with Genesis, Wind and Wathering in terms of hearing a song on the radio and literally driving to the record store buying the album because I

had to hear it over the mead. It only happened with me once, and it was feels like the first time, the first one. I mean I remember where I bought it. I'm music honesty and will sure, but it's now a uh, you know, workout equipment store. But I literally was up on the wall. I had to buy it. And at that point the only people we knew were, you know, the people who ended up not being in the band after a period of time, so it was all new.

But the sound of that record, I had a good stereo at that particular time, you could crank it up on the j b LS. You know, I was just unbelievable. I mean this type of did you know it would explode like that? Well? I had an experience. Um I was doing an interview with Scott Muni and um, he said, I'm driving over the tribe of Bridge and I hear this song a man, he said, that's music to roll

the window down and floor it. And and there was a there's a big hit on the Tom Toms in the beginning, and it takes the signal at a radio station and it disappears for five seconds ten seconds. But you know, it sounded good, sounded great, and just that moment with Scott, you know, was like, wow, this must have could this be something? You know? And up till then I figured we try and put a band together

that wasn't comprised of of journeymen, you know. It was three young Americans, pretty green, and then of course Ian McDonald and Denniss Eliot who did have experience, you know, and and then Lou and then we were off to the races. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from where in the UK? I was born in the West Country. Are you familiar with Let's put this way, I'm familiar, probably a little bit more than most Americans, but that is not much an Americans. We only focus

on America, so give us some reference points. It's in the West Country, the kind of the toe down there right underneath Wales. Yeah, so what what would what town was this? Uh? Where I where I was born was Glastonbury, Glastonbury where they at the festival. And then where were you raised? I was raised in moved several times and I was raised basically in South London sorry, which is a a county kind of about ten miles from the

center of London. Um. I later found out that Eric Clapton came from town five miles away from me, which I didn't know about at the time. I had a band. I had a little band. But what we did do was open for the stones a few times. It was a place called the Wooden Bridge. It was a pub, I mean, but the stones before they were the Stones okay, the wooden Bridge. And that was in Surrey. In Surry, Okay, what was that? Did you say, oh, this biond has got a future and to say, oh, they're never going

to make it. Well, the band that I had was it was kind of a bluesy band with a bit of R and B. It was called hog Snort Rupert. I didn't come over that name, but good musicians and you know, gradually started to feel that hopefully I wasn't just going to do a regular job. You know, I was how were the stones that night? Those two nights they were They were sensational. Long John Bouldry was was in the on the bill. Really, yeah, that's quite a bill. Okay. So you grow up, let's you know. And how many

kids in the family? Now there are seven? Now the kids in your family in English? Just my brother? Does your brother older or younger? Younger? And where's he today? He is in New York. He lives actually he lives in Miami. Okay. And you became a musician. What did he do? Um? He he was a great guitar player, but I don't know what it was. I couldn't quite get him out of his shell. He was. He loved music, you know, he had a great taste in music. Used

to turn me onto things that I hadn't heard. And very very cool guy working with me on the road quite a lot. And so I up until the age of eleven, I was an only child. Oh he's eleven years younger. So what'd your father do for a living? He was a what he'd call now a but not public relations um. A guy that would interview people for jobs HR, human relations, human resource and what did he

do that for what kind of company? The company that's supplied England during the wars with food and beverage, anything to do with that area. So it was renowned for its tea. It was the worst teas worth tea in England. What was the brand name, Oh gosh, back then it may have been PG chips or something. It was home brewed, I think really, and it was my you know, just undrinkable. So you're we're sort of a middle class family, I would say, sort of yeah, okay, and you grow up.

Parents have a lot of involvement in your life where you're running around the streets doing whatever. Um. Yeah, to a certain extent, Uh, I lived in this little hamlet, you know, five miles from Glastonbury, so it was really steeped in history where you know, I lived in a little village that was you know, years old, and it was it was pretty desolate. It was you know, on Sunday, I was in the choir so we did that and then um, the rest of the day. It's kind of

foggy for me what I used to do. But um, there will be nobody in the streets and I'd be walking around and saying when am I going to get out of here? And I used to go and see my more of you know, my family. They lived in Hampshire, which is down south too, and we used to have all our celebrations Christmas and everything down there with the big family. And I used to I used to get so down and we had to get in that car and drive back to you know, this little place in

the middle of nowhere. And did your parents play music in the home. My father was a pianist and he he loved he loved jazz, right. He was a huge Errol Garner fan, so he used to hear a lot of that in the in the house. Um. Otherwise, Um, they were, they were very musical. They were music fans. But Dad had a secret inkling that he wanted to sort of try, and he had a friend who was a professional musician. Um, and I think he he would have taken that shot, you know, if it was just him.

But he'd just come back from the war and there was a lot to do to get a life back together at that point. What did he do during the war, same thing, but he was then he joined the Marines, which is kind of like the American Marines a bit tough guys. Yeah, usually they're out there getting killed easily frontline. Did he see action? Yeah. Do you think that affected his life thereafter PTSD that kind of stuff, Yeah, I think so, I think. Um. I mean he was well

respected within our family. He was the best educated. Um. He wanted them to give us a life that was comfortable and wanted me to have, you know, a a good education. So he was he was a wise man, you know. So he said he was educated. He went to what you would call university. Um. Yeah, he he went to university and in a city called Portsmouth. And how about yourself? No, I skipped that. So what did he say, the wise man who wanted to provide a better life for his family. Well, he and my mother

sat me down one night. They'd seen a couple of gigs I've done with this band. They said, Michael, we have to Michael. They called, uh, we have to have a little chat. You know. We know you love this music and the rock was just coming in, you know and everything, but we don't feel it's a career that has very much lifespan to it. And I thought, oh god, no, they don't believe that I can do it. And I started to believe. I don't know what, but it I took a serious hit too, you know, feeling that they

didn't believe in me. But that all changed later. Okay, So when did you start playing a musical instrument when I was the first time was probably when I was about six or seven. My grandparents had a piano um which I used to play every time I went to see them, and I just learned what I My father started me off on anchors away that military background and the holes of Montezuma right right, because you know I had I had an EP that was in second grade that had all four of the military anthem so I

know those pretty well. Yeah, that's funny, um. And I just you know, I found my way around the piano a bit, all on the black keys, and that made that made it easier for me. But I remember, and I carried on on those black keys all the way through my my piano career. And I remember when I was working with Billy Billy Joel, he said, how the hell do you play cold as ice in those positions on the black keys? I said, I don't know. That's just the way I started started, and it stuck, you know,

what was it like working with Billy Um great. I mean, have a tremendous respect for him. He's consummate musician. He's um very creative. You know, we got on very I had a few little confrontrations with him. From were the confrontations about um, just a couple of songs um what became aim We Didn't Start the Fire started out as a song called Joe Lene, and I thought, just a minute, I know that song and it was a similar kind

of feel on it, and I felt it. I had to tell Billy, you know, said I'm scared that this is going to be controversial and you know, plagiaristic. And he looked at me and walked out of the room. And the next thing I know, he's ordered that all the time Life magazine is from nineteen when he was born, which was must have been He's a few years younger than me, I think. And he sat down, set himself in a room, and came out basically three days later

with all the lyrics too. We Didn't Start the Fire, which is a chronological order, in chronological order of you know, the events, major events that happened in the world, And did you think that was going to be a monster hit? I knew it was going to be different. He wanted to rock rock up a bit, you know, he wanted to let loose a bit, and that was one of the reasons I think he wanted to work with me, and also the fact that I was a songwriter too.

He respected what I had done, and again I had to go into a situation where Phil Ramon had done all his You know, I knew Phil, So how did what was Billy's decision not to use Phil? Um It wasn't really anything to do with me. It was just a choice. We we met up in a Itsunian restaurant, just like the song, and we hit it off of me. We'd we'd seen each other around. You know, I kind of knew him a little bit, but um, yeah, I I I got a few um outside musicians to come in.

I think he wanted to break the it's not formula but the style, just as I said to, you know, to make it a bit rock rockier. Okay, let's go back to growing up. So you play on the black keys, and when do you you ever have any piano lessons? And when do you pick up the guitar or is

there another instrument in between? Uku lele Uku Lately now ukul lately, Okay, we're I realized radio was different then because you have the BBC and there was a limited amount of stuff, But it wasn't you know skiffle was big then, was it? Were you always into the popular music? Yeah, I am. I played a little skiffle band for a while. Lonnie Donegan songs it was it was actually they were big here too, Does your chewing gum lose its flavor? And wonderful hits they had. So how did you learn

how to play the ukulele? My dad taught me. Taught me three chords and that was it. Immediately he taught me to play. I remember one of them was Anti sweet, just walking down the street and it got me and I learned those chords and I played them over and

over again. I discovered about how the instrument worked, you know, and that was actually a very important move he made to give me that and to give me a couple of lessons, and that was the first time I felt music really, especially like Buddy Holly Ah, who was my idol. Completely like a lot of English guitar players. I'm sure you've interviewed, he was, you know, it was it was like I'd seen a light, you know, there the awakening of it. And I went from there to to playing

in a couple of local bands. As I said, you play the ukulele. You were playing ukulele in those people. Oh no, No, like a Spanish guitar. Okay. So you have the ukulele. What's the next guitar you get? It was a believe it's called a Hofner Senator. Okay. And you know, I had had a a friend at school who was a great guitar player. He played with Georgie Fame, and he kind of took me under his wing a bit and gave me a few pointers and lessons and stuff.

And he played with Buddy not with Buddy Holly, well he did, actually, but he played with Jerry Lewis, h Eddie Cochrane legends. And he used to take me up to London when a tour was starting so I could hang out by the bus and see all my idols getting on the bus. Hey, listen, that's a thrill when you're that age. Oh man, it's a killer. Okay. So you had you had the Hofner and then you say

you're playing Spanish guitar in bands? You know, acoustic guitar. Yeah, at that point it was more rhythm stuff, you know, because you can't really I you can't really play for me right on an acoustic It's difficult. But um, so where were we? Okay, so you're playing in uh, you're playing you're in high school or whatever the equivalent what they're calling that in England. You start in the bands with Spanish guitar. When did you get an electrical um?

Once I had formed a little nucleus of a band, which was pretty pretty cool little band actually, and I got a burns which looked a little bit like a les Paul. Wasn't anywhere near right as good as a spoil, but it looked good and it was cut away, and so I the first few months I I I played with that, and eventually my father bought me a s G les Paul s G and that was the beginning of hey, this is this is a ship. You know, I had the treasure it. My father was playing credit

for it, you know, on credit um. And then with that guitar another year it started off for me and I joined a band, a professional band whose name was Nero and the Gladiators. I don't know whether you're any I don't think I can remember that one. They made a name. They were like, um, they made a name by taking classical pieces like in the Whole of the Mountain King and playing them instrumentally, and they had like two number top five hits. Really what year was that?

Oh gosh, it's got to be sixty, probably even earlier. They had already been a band for a while, so early sixties. And what did you have for an amplifier? UM? I I was advised and I met a guy called Peppe in London who used to convert amps and customize them, and I got I got one of those. Uh somehow it did a deal and I ended up with that. Later in my career, I I ended up blending Steve Cropper that amp when they were doing the Stacks Motown Review and Paris, and I was like, wow, Steve Coffee

right exactly. He was one of my early idols too. And but yeah, and then I bought UM. I've moved on from that guitar and eventually bought There was a quite a well known session guitar player in England called Big Big Jim Sullivan. He used to play on a lot of BOT records, and and that was his guitar. Later I got it stolen, but so it was literally his guitar, the same style. Oh really, what kind of guitar was it? It was a Gibson Stereo. And how did you get it? Um? I bought it in a

store in London. Okay, let's go back to school. Are you a popular guy or you're the loner? What kind of person were you growing up? I think, well, I have to say I was pretty popular guy. I got chosen kind of to represent them, the weaker, you know, side of my class my year when it came to fights or put acting them and stuff like that. So I took a few hits on that that I wasn't well. My grandfather was a boxer, but um yeah, I was called upon from time to time just to warm people

to stay away. Okay, so you play with Nero and the glady Eaters and what's the step after that? Um? I was with the band for about three months and gigging with them, wearing Roman right, No, Nero bore the toga? Oh? Is that what it was? What are the gladi Eaters were centurion skirts. We had chicks coming up to the front of the stage. I remember, you know, all looked trying to look under our skirts, and I kind of felt kind of weird when I got myself into here.

And but we we were approached to play about a month tour in France and backing a a very well known rock singer who we went by the name of Dick Rivers from one of the Elvis movies. I think a lot of French artists chose American names. You know, it's weird. And we set off for France, and before

I knew it, we were touring around France. I loved it because I that front French was my best subject at school, and my French teacher would reward his pupils by merit if they if they had done well in the class, he would give them copies of a magazine called Perry Match, probably familiar. And so you're in France backing up these people with Deary and the Gladiators. Yeah, okay, but then you end up being in France for a long time. How does that it come to be? I

was in France for a long time. I was in France for about seven years. Okay. So meanwhile, you know, across the channel rock music is going insane. How do you feel about being in France? Um, it was a chance ready to kind of grow up, cut my teeth, you know, kind of thing. Playing in the band wasn't bad. That was supporting her. We had a few of her musicians in the band. Um, and that's where I started to get to experience in the studio. Um. I h

but I'm just trying to recall. It's a long time ago, Bob. Yeah, right, But you ended up working with Johnny Holliday and writing songs. How did that all come to be? Um? I had a partner, his name was Tommy Brown, who had been the drummer with the Dick Rivers part of it, and we just somehow started writing together and in French. In French, well not in French, there was always a translator, yeah,

which was very weird too. Every every hit in America or England got covered lyrically, and you know, the French translator would make like more money than the original writers and the song although he had nothing to do with it except right the French rics. But yeah, I with Johnny we started to he kind of I had been with playing with his wife. What was the wife's name, Sylvie Batan, and she was the star over there of the yea Yea. They called it the yea Yea period.

It was time of there were riots in France and stuff like yuh. And that was that was the introduction to his wife, who saw me playing a part in a movie that she was in. She was singing songs in it and I was playing and her brother, who was the bandleader, came over to me and said, would you like to come down and work out with Sylvie and some songs? And of course I accepted it. It was because I was like broke, I didn't have anything

I was. I used to spend my afternoons at pinball in the cafe, you know, and make a Coca cola last for a couple of hours. And so I jumped at the opportunity and cut a long story short. I started to work with Johnny and he also was part of that group that would sing American rock songs in French. Um. He was a really exciting front, you know, lead singer. Was he already Johnny Holiday sort of speak at that point. Yeah, it was kind of like joining Presley for for France

used to blow me away, you know. His his stage act was sensational, you know, he was a real rocker at heart. He swear black, leather and and and a very powerful voice, not not what we would call a voice that would appeal so much in America. Why well, he had a um, a little deformation in what do they call it in his mouth the palette, I don't know, Yeah, something to do with the palette. And unfortunately it was

the rs that were difficult for him to pronounce. He'd seeing it, you know, we were and of course walk and wall it was a very important term. So he had trouble with that um. But he he worked very hard at it, and we started to write Tommy and I started to write for him. Decided to then that went into producing his his albums, and before I knew it, we'd we'd had about five or six top ten records. And you know, that was like the first time I

had seen money, That's the obvious question. And he kind of took me under his wing as like a younger brother. It was, yeah, it was you know, you could could say his lifestyle was James Dean and and Presley, you know, so it was kind of like living that little subworld under that. And how did you come back to the UK? Well,

I figured um. I was doing quite well, and I remember I was playing golf in a country house in Normandy where I had ended up renting a house, which was like unbelievable, and I was starting to get come a little comfortable financially, and suddenly I felt came over and sort of felt weird it. What am I doing?

You know, one of my I'm here and I'm getting quite successful, but I'm not really I'm going to go very far off, you know, with this, and I want to you know, really get into a band and and pursue you know, music that I wanted to do, and so I you know that part of that was the writing and everything, and I thought, I can't do this anymore, you know, I've got to make my way back to England and start over. And basically that's what I did.

I I was playing in Paris and that night it was a kind of a bar where musicians used to go, called the Rock and Roll Circus, and I was introduced to Gary Wright and to Jimmy Miller, who was a producer at the time. Did the Stones, did Traffic legendary guy, But he did the Stones, He did Traffic jen legendary guy. Oh he He was like kind of sort of an idol for me. UM and he had worked closely with Gary.

They were actually school friends, and somehow through that introduction we all got on really well, and Gary asked me to get in touch with him, and before I knew it, I was playing with Gary Wright in a band at that time called Wonder Wheel, which was sort of gary solo project. Um the and then I joined Spooky Tooth and that was that became quite an important part of my They were a pretty soulful band. They were progressive, but soulful, and they had a groove, you know, they had.

It was a pretty big prestigious move to be chosen to be in that band, and so it was. It was a good experience for a couple of years. And then UM some relationships within the band had not been healed from when they broke up the first time, and gradually it's sort of disintegrated and I was left high and dry in New York, Um basically relying on money that I was getting still from France. What did everybody see in France? Like Johnny Holiday when you left? Um,

he was pretty upset. In fact, a few months ago, I before he passed. Yeah, I had dinner with him and I kind of asked him. I said, do you forgive me? And he said, well, I said I didn't at the time, but I feel like that. I was pretty upset, but I believe you made the right move. Okay, there's so many great guitars come out of the UK. How good guitars were you in that era? Um? I was a little different, you know. I I had developed

a little bit of a style. UM. I wouldn't rate myself, as you know, any kind of particularly gifted guitar player. I played like a combination of rhythm and read. That was good. I had a good rhythm, but as far as um you know, being a prodigy or anything like that, had to leave that to Eddie. Tried to teach me how to tap? Will you ever get it? Kind of we ended up like just you know, laughing and fooling around. It was funny. Okay, so you're high, the beat, spooky

tooth breaks up, You're high and dry. In New York that was and then um I can't remember how it started, but I was being managed by Bud Braeger. Okay, I do Bud. How did you hook up with Bud? Basically? Um? He Bud was a partner with Gary Kerry first also

passed away. Yeah yeah, unfortunately, and they had both together managed Mountain and they broke up and somehow Gary ended up with Phoenix Popularity, and I mean Bud filled it up with Phelix representing him and then Bud represented them Leslie, which was a kind of a bizarre sort of way to end it. Leslie was much friendier, more friendly with Felix,

and he didn't really know how to handle Leslie. Okay, just so I know, wait I thought, because Bud said Felix was his best friend when they broke up, kurf first, and uh that Felix went with kur first, okay, and Leslie went with Bud. And how did you end up with Bud? Um? I joined the Leslie westband. Ah, so who was in the band at the same time, just really Quirky Lang and the bass player I can't remember his name, Quirky Lang with all the iterations. Okay, So

then how do you then? Okay, so you joined after New York, you end up being in the Mountain Band, and then what's next for you? Well, we we did an album which wasn't wasn't a bad album, chob was that it was called the Leslie Westbound. Some decent songs I wrote or co wrote most of them, and that was another stepping stone, a bit um and working with Leslie wants to He's great guitar player. I still admire him a lot, and so I picked up a few little things from him. I always, you know, I'm I

am a I like learning. I never feel that I know it all, you know, I feel that try and stay humble about it anything. But life became unmanageable with Leslie at that time, unfortunately, and he was m just impossible to heal. Whether he was I don't really want to go into what he was doing, but not good.

And all that started to break down. And one day we were stuck somewhere in Florida, and what Lessardy would do would be to take the money from the promoter and leave us kind of high and dry, and then he would steer a guitar from the opening act, jump on a plane and go down to Manny's and sell it all to support is Trugs. And it became a nightmare. And I told I confronted Bud one day and I said, what kind of fucking manager do you think you are what we've got to do something for for for Leslie,

you know, he's so um. Bud was kind of a bit miffed at that, and I said, look, if you you want to be a manager and prove yourself, because I don't think you have yet, I'll bet you I can put something together within a year with with your help, you know, financially helped out. And it became a competition as to who could be the most successful, will achieve their dream as it were. It was kind of bizarre

in a way, but it was the motivation. And he said, you'd better start writing some songs then, you know, And suddenly I'm on the spot and started writing songs and uh, basically from there, uh, the song started to come. And that's where it all kind of took place, the formation of the band. Felix had had a studio up in Bud's offices on Broadway, and he had a studio in there that he used to record um bands, up and coming bands, or you know, just as a rehearsal space.

And I kind of took that over and Bud was next door and so every half an hour he bob his head and yeah, it's a funny relationship. But he Without him, I don't think I would have had the motivation and you know, the moment of well, you have

to brood yourself here. And so that little pact we made became the backbone of our relationship, and the combination of his experience and mine somehow seemed to gel and we exchanged you know, um stories, and we'd would be in the office until ten at night, you know, just coming and trying to come up with things that would make this thing a special And so he kind of how to talk with his wife because we needed money to put this together, and he kind of talked her

into giving us an initial sum of money, which was about somewhere like eighty grand at the time, to pay all the musicians. You know, it wasn't a great big budget, but and everything happened in that little room. So you cut the first album in that little rooms, Okay, cut the demos, so essentially everything from the first album pretty much.

We um. When Lou came down and became integrated into the picture, I knew that he was a writer too, and I invited him to participate in the writing too, and that started our sort of writing relationship and how did you the rest of the band come together? Um? Through m kind of word of mouth Um, Ian McDonald I knew already. I had met Dennis Eady at the drummer um when I worked a little bit with Ian Hunter, and to me, he was perfect fit. And then we

had a local guy from New York. He had been in a sort of an e LP type band and he was a really good keyboard player and he also was a writer. He later contributed to a few songs. Um ah. But that next period, you know, was we we made the demo. We uh, I had I had no you know, I had an interesting circle of friends. I was friendly with Jerry Moss from Yes, we had

an interesting circle of friends. You knew Jerry Moss. Yeah, that whole sort of stable Jerry Moss and the A and M Records crew and the left handed trumpet player. So people used to you don't know, Yeah, and they had a great thing going at A and M and that there was a really artist friendly, warm kind of feeling. You know, you've felt like you were sort of special. And that's who I sent the first demo too. Unfortunately Jerry had just left it for the Mediterranean on vacation.

And he never got the package. He told me later and he said, I really said, I kicked myself. I would love to have done this with you, and I would likewise of like to do it with him. Um, so that was one down Clive Davis. I wanted, for some reason to test myself because I knew he was like a song man and I really kind of wanted his um impression of it. And he said, well, he said, the only way I can tell you is if you come up here with their acoustic guitar and play me

some of those songs, I'll give you my opinion. And yeah, I didn't hear back from now did you sing the songs? Did losing the songs? No, we didn't. We didn't do it. Oh yeah, just I was a little bit miffed that we had to do that. It got my ego a bit, But later I became you know, I've become very friendly with Clive over the years and I learned quite a

bit from him. Um. Then we I had always Atlantic Records had always been my dream label, you know, right from the first time I heard Ray Charles all that period, you know, M R and B and H. So we sent there was a guy called a and R guy called Jim Delahan at Atlantic who got the the demo tape and kind of threw it in the bin without listening to it. And then John Colodno got hold of

it somehow and he went bananas. He just he had just been appointed ahead of publicity, I think, nothing to do with, you know, being a music buff as he was, and he kind of took it and ran with it and just motivated the whole company. He'd be on their ass all the time, you know about champion championing our calls, and he piste a lot of people off me. It worked and we developed a great relationship eventually with Atlantic,

and you know, it was a great meeting. Armored became friendly with him, and it was my dream, you know. I remember as a kid, I went to a party on a weekend. I must have been about fourteen or fifteen, and one of those parties where you tell your parents you're gonna three rounded to friends and you're off to London and hitch hiking and lost it. So you're talking about this party hearing the Atlantic records and I was over by the record player and I saw this black

and red it was playing. What I say, Ray Charles and I saw this um spinning around on the record player and saw those colors, and I saw and then I listened to what was coming out, and I thought, Wow, that's fucking amazing, and what a what a great company, you know, what a great roster. You know. By that time, they had Zeppelin and The Stones, um, both bands who we have eventually ended up setting more than Ah. That

was another crazy I mean, that was crazy times. The I had worked with Jimmy, you know, in London on sessions, sessions with Johnny Halliday, John Paul Jones, I'd work with and and of course that history of that pub and sorry opening for Stones, and and suddenly I'm here with it's you know, massive figures and rock, you know, and then it kind of became a little surreal at that point. I remember he ran Rolling Stone Records and Earl I

become friendly with through the label kind of thing. And he challenged us because our double Vision album came out at the same time as some girls, and so we had this thing where every Friday or whenever, you know, the charts came out. Um, he had come over the studio and I either admit that we'd sold more than stones or not, and then we'd have to sort of but you're accounting that you're not counting this or you know.

And by was in forwards and we ended up surpassing the Stones, you know, and that was mind boggling to me, you know, And although we had some statue already, it was still mind blowing, you know. Okay. So and in that year, by the way, um Foreigner and Rolling Stones, it was being talked about that we should unite and

form our own label. That's how much we're Bud was approached by Rupert Lonstein, who you I'm sure you know, and he approached Bud and said, we'd like to talk about possibly forming a label with you guys, and what because we had sold more between us than the whole label, right signed. That's that's so just a little aside. I'd like to mention that sometimes it didn't happen. Um, I

don't know. I think we we were riding high. Ah, Rupid Loinstein had a bit of a reputation too, And what was he The reputation was he was a great business guy for the Stones. But if you're weren't the Stones, what was his reputation? He's dead too, Yeah, not not too sparkling. Okay, let's go back to the getting Colodter flipped for it. So how long did it take for Foreigner to get signed? Um? Probably about three months? And

was it already called Foreigner at that point? Um? The first name I we had thought of was Trigger, um, and then I realized that Trigger was Roy Rogers Horse and suddenly I felt Rodgers. There's another Rodgers who's pretty damn good singer, you know, and Paul Rodgers of course, so I just decided I couldn't go there. And I can't remember many other names. Actually, tell you the truth, it was hell finding a name. So when you found when you just when you come up with Foreigner, did

you say, oh, this is it? Or do you said, wait for a while, so, well, I can't come up with something better, so therefore it's Foreigner pretty much. Yeah, the important thing with the albums, you know, and the recording you know. But Bud told me, you know, face to face, that he cut the Scottie Brothers in for a point for the complete career. He did, right. They were a legendary promotion people. And he was saying that certainly helped in the success of Foreigner, that that was

his major contribution. And you agree that was a good move. Okay, So you make the first album and then somewhere along the line the band changes. It's you and Lou, but everybody else changed. What happened there? Um, are you talking about pre the Forum? Yeah? Yeah, I mean McDonald's no

longer in the band. Well, we were kind of doing a growing up in public in a way, and Lew and I were sort of the nucleus of the band as it were, and I felt that we had to consolidate and really create what would be the sound of the band and I and I had counted Onto to be a man of all kinds of instruments, and it didn't sort of pan out that way. And Al Greenwood

it was a great player. And you know, I've I've often regretted about, you know, why we did that, because it was, I guess part of my desire to to shape the sound, make it live for a long time, and create something that would be with acted, you know, and I needed to hone in on it. And so I was a bit of a taskmaster at that point. And how did Rick Wills end up being in the band?

Rick I had known from Paris when he was playing in a club in Paris with with Dave Gilmore and they were on subsistence levels, you know, playing in a club in Saint Germains. And I used to go by and give him a little money. That's what I've just been joining. I took him out for breakfast a lot. You know. I looked back on it, and I I have regrets. I wish we could have kept the band

intact as it were. It was really a terrible emotional break. Um. You know, these guys have been part of that first dream thing and then and then they weren't, you know, and then um, you know I finally decided to do that album and eventually produce it with Mutt Lange. Okay, yeah, So how did you decide this is the fourth album obviously four or four? How did you decide to make the switch and get Mudd involved? To get who get

Mutt involved? Um? Well, Mutt had already applied for the job, uh, and we won't be able to work it out with him. So we did an album head Games with Roy Roy Thomas Baker Well, Roy Baker Thomas, Where's he today? Was that a good or bad experience? It was kind into good? It was it was. It was an attempt to go a bit more raw, a bit more street kind of thing. Um. I don't really know whether it ended up that way,

but I it's a very powerful stage number. And you know, Um, I decided on Matt because he came over to my place and I wanted to hear every single idea I had, which normally was like a logo area. You know. It was very while I was timid, I guess, and he he wouldn't leave until he basically literally heard everything, even like a ten second clip, and he picked out like the intro on urgent ding ding ding dinging. Yeah, yeah, what was that? Was just just a piece line around.

It was almost sounded to me like the shadows. And so we we we had it was a little sticky at the beginning. We both realized that we were both highly opinionated and we're used to, you know, getting what we wanted sort of thing. And but over time, over the first few months, we had a few runnins, you know, and then suddenly like it did with Tom with Don Landy and ended up having a quite a healthy aspect for each other. How long did it take to make

for or four nine months? Maybe? A bit more pretty expensive, although you were a big seller, yes, and what did but contribute? Um? Well, he was Matt was actually more coming from more of a pop area. You know. It's um. He was as you probably know, he was like a session singer in South Africa. Yeah, they used to make all the records. They would cover the hits in England. That's really hold his chops um. And you know he he knew his stuff. He'd been been around, he knew

his self. Plus I am actually what was that band he first been? City Boy? City Boy. That's when that's the first time he caught my ear. And you know, I knew that he was pretty determined. He was in good shape. You know, he'd had a couple of years where he had had a couple of shaky years, but had come back from that and it was really you know, on it. Okay, So how did Junior walk around up

being on Urgent? Um. We were in the studio and I was just playing some of the tracks back and I had it was a very early version of Urgent And I'm sitting there reading the Village Voice and suddenly I see bloone Star Cafe, Junior Walker and the old Stars and I'm listening to the track, which was pretty funky, and I put two and two together and went down to catch him live. And he had no idea who but his son I knew who we were, you know, and he said, Dad, these guys at the top of

it charts, they're really great, you know. And he said, well, all I know is someone want to wake a record here, you know. And up to that point, believe it or not, he had never overdubbed anything on any albums or records he made. It was all one take. We ended up doing ten takes. And we were working with Tom Dalby Thomas Dolby at the time, and he was an interesting character, had some pretty radical since ideas, you know. I didn't want to just use a stock kind of since. So

I you know, we we contacted him. He was in Paris, playing on subway, just singing with who knew him then nobody? Glad you find him. I can't remember. I think we we looked into who who he was, you know, Mud had heard about him, so you had Thomas Dolby in yeah,

and uh Junior Walker. So we went out for what we would do, and we go out for dinner and leave Tom in the studio with an engineer and just have him just put the tracks down and then sift through them and you know, come up with slightly different approaches. And Junior started warming up, you know, and we did a take and it was nothing like Junior Walker used to play right at all. It was soft and mellow. So this is my new style. And Matt said, well,

he said, we don't really want the new style. We want we want the real you you know, we want the stuff, you know, we want the shotgun. Yes, and he said, oh, you mean all that old ship. Yes, oh, the old ship. And so he he was she as I mentioned, he hadn't done before. We overdubbed him and took a bit of getting used to for him. But we gave him about twelve tracks. We came back and sifted through them, edited them, and I think it took

two days to really put the final thing together. And I and I checked it out with a few Sacks players I knew, you know, to see if they spotted anything not kosher, you know, But it passed the committee and I think it's probably one of the one of the best sacks solos on a rock record. I agree there. I think most people agree now. Thomas Dolby came up

with the synth sounds for Waiting for a Girl Like You. Yes, partly him and partly Ah Well, our keyboard player at the time of Mayo, who used to work with Frampton that's right and Larry Fast synergy synergy. Um, he played the chords. Who did that? Donna? Okay? Yeah, okay, So four and or four comes out? Did you have any idea it was going to be as big as it was? I had an inkling when we started to when it started to come come into shape. Um, I had a feeling.

I put so much into it. I put everything I had into it. It was it was an important album. It was to sort of confirm that we weren't just you know, we hadn't just made three albums and that was the end of everything. He even though it did come close to the end of okay, so why did you never work with but again we that didn't happen immediately. That that kind of happened on at a later date as far as I remember. But the reason was that

we weren't happy about our touring situation. And but it was later it was well, it did not do Waiting for I want to know what love is? No, I didn't think so, so how did I I don't want to know what love is? Comes together? I was in London.

I had an apartment in London and I was living there with my fiance at the time, and I was working in my little music room mad I had just bought a simple synth, so I was writing on that and guitar, and suddenly this line comes into my head and I'm thinking, I want to know what love is. That's that's weird, that's too. I must have heard that before somewhere and eventually realized that I hadn't heard that before. So um it was before Christmas and we released it

in Atlantic. Just desperately wanted to release it, and so we did, and it was sort of a blessing and a curse in a way. The ramifications of what happened after that with my relationship with Lou tell us the story tell us how it was a blessing in Chris obviously huge hit and why did it mess up your

relationship with little Um. Well, the fact was that we had the last, the second hit on the previous album and was waiting for gol like so there were two consecutive ballads, and Glue took a little exception to it. He felt that we were becoming softer, and in a way, I guess the fact that those two ballads, but which were huge hits, a kind of could have given the impression that we were going a bit soft. I didn't

think we were. I thought it was just passage of time, and and so I was kind of taken by surprise by that. But then it developed into kind of into a rift, which unfortunately started to the band started started to self destruct. Um. I also think Lou probably felt he wanted to do his own and he wanted to do an album that he thought I believed that would

show me what he wanted to do. And I heard the album and it sounded very familiar to me, and I got a little upset about that because, you know, Lou was the voice of the band and I was just so you know, I was a musician, and even though I was sort of the leader of the band, I had I recalled, you know, the amount of times when the lead singers had left bands and the disaster it had been, you know, and what it had done to the band, basically destroyed the band and using whatever

knowledge I had. I I tried to keep him in the band, but I realized after a while that he had made pretty solid sort of commitment to do this. And it was a sad time, you know, because the song had meant so much to so many people, and even today it still does. And I'll never quite good over that, I don't think, because it's never quite settled. Whether it has for him, I don't know, okay, but you do these Foreigner then and Now shows where he is on the bill. So if it's never quite settled,

how did this come back together? Um? It was on the night of the Rock and Phone, I mean not the Songwriters Hall of Fame and Lou and I were being inducted that night and things had mellowed out a bit. I have to say. It wasn't I confrontation or anything like that. We we did pretty well together, right right. Did you have any contact with them, Yeah, because they wanted us to play songs becus him and I, I

mean have a prior to that. After he left the band, he did his solo records for the next fifteen twenty years. Did you ever connect with them? Yeah? Okay, so you were somewhat friendly. Yeah, it wasn't it. It was yeah, that stuff at all, you know, under the bridge, and so there we were. We had to performed together. And sometime in that day and in the preparation for the show, it dawned on me, you know, what we had achieved together, and I think it He got that too, and I said,

you know, we did pretty good, pretty fucking good. And you know, I'll never regret what we've done together, and it will always be the most important thing in my life and the gratitude I have for it from whatever it took. You know, we we did it. We we made it. So is your anger more that he left or more that you didn't have a chance to make

more hit foreigner albums? Well, it was more disappointment than anger. Um. I tried to We did some auditions for other singers, UM, which I sort of got a bit excited about and then realized that maybe it wasn't a great Um. We did some recording the what was that album? Inside Information, and but that was very much Lue coming in daily and doing his bit and leaving not really part of that creative process. But um, yeah, I kind of started to lose hard a bit towards the end of the nineties.

I didn't realize that we were getting gradually getting pushed out a bit band of you know, classic rock band grunge was coming in the hair bands, stuff that I didn't really really relate, but gradually I picked up on that, and that funny enough, that was the time when Bud

and I split. And why did you too split? Because one day, I think it was in Spokane, Washington, we were playing in a bar and the bar was sort of at the junction of two roads coming in night, and so there was traffic on both sides of stage and the shitty little stage where we couldn't really even set up. I thought, WHOA, what's happening here? You know, is just we down to this playing little shacks. And actually what was happening was the whole business was changing.

You know, we um and we were categorized as less than a classic rock band, you know, um whatever. You know, the market was bad, and you know, I didn't know what to do, and then um, oh the bad thing. Yeah, I kind of blamed him for it, blamed blamed him, thinking that it was his fault. We were playing in these ship holes and he said, well, you don't understand these you know, it's not like it used to be. And um, I said no, but it's got to be

better than that. And so actually Jason Bonham came up, but he called me along with Phil Carson you probably know, I guess and said, Mickey said, there's people out there. They're just dying to hear your music sounding like it should sound, you know. And gradually I I sort of confidence started to grow and we put this Foreigner Mark two together and from then on it was a slog to get us back to some kind of prestige, you know,

some kind of prestigious position. And um, we've the band, this band in its current form, it's been around now for pretty much twelve years. So we're no longer. We've fought the fight and we've we're no one right now. But you don't do every gig right, When do you decide to work? When I'm in good health and good shape. How how is your health? It's it's pretty good. I can't complain feeling great right now, just not anything unusual ealthwise. Several years ago, I did have some heart surgery, but

that's all fine, okay. One of my favorite songs is from the movie Still Crazy, which I love the flame still burns. Yeah, what is the story there? Well, it's a it's um, it's really about a. Did you see the movie? Oh yeah, see the movie multiple times. I'd love it. But how did it come together that you wrote the songs for the movie. Well, I had known Brian Gibson, the director, and I also knew here le

Freny and Dick and his partner Dick. And I got a call from Brian saying I haven't seen him since we he did the video for I Want to Know What Love Us? And he said yeah, great. Um, he said, I have a little problem I've got I'm finishing this um movie I'm directing, and the songs aren't working. And I said, okay, what's the time frame here? And he said, well, he said, if you could come up with eight songs in week, that would be good. Yeah. I said, yeah, really would be But we managed to cut it down

to about six. I think I wrote, well, yeah, I keep going. Um, I mean the film once I started to see the rushes and it was hilarious, you know, and I love that movie. We've we've done some versions of frames steel better, I know, but I will Okay, that's what I because I know you released a version which I've listened to. Because in America anyway, this movie soundtrack never came out, so in the Napster era, I had to download those, okay, and I prefer the version

from the movie to the foreigner version. So who is singing on that one? And did you produce it? The one from the movie. Um, it's a guy called Jimmy Nail who was in the movie. So he's singing, yes, okay. And then who produced thing that went to a number one in England? Oh? Really? Yeah? And who produced it? Um? I can't remember who it was. So you weren't involved,

not in the mixing, but in the recording. You were well in in I was working at songs same time as we were, you know, basically trying to fit with the lyrics right right, right right, because you had such little time. Okay. Now, your step son is usually successful in music. How did that come together? Do you learn anything from you? Yes? Of course he Actually he credits me quite a lot, which I'm you know, very this

is Mark Ronson we're talking. Yeah, yeah, Well, he's always been a huge music buff and you know, in the early hip hop days he was he was you know, completely taken with it, and then he started spinning and then he went into I'm trying to think of the evolution. Yeah, he had a rock band, so his tastes were in a way similar to mine, and everything everything's got something about it. And he's just worked very hard. You know,

he's a workaholic, which worries me a bit sometimes. But you know, he's a great kid, great guy, brother, and he's just a really special presidency has about him. And he's a sincere obviously very talented and well did you give him tips either growing up or when he went professional. Well, he used to come to you know, I had a studio in the house, so he'd hang out there quite

a bit. Um he came to sessions. Ah, just picked it up that way, I think really And but he was complete music buff and you know that soul period in the early late early seventies, that kind of stuff and the Philly sound. And he's a student. I think The Band is one of his favorite bands. Which band is the band? The Band? Yes, as I said, Eric Clapton wanted to join them. Whenever there's a new movie

coming out and Robbie Robertson has a new album. But okay, you divorced his mother and then years later got remarried. What's up with that? What's up? Indeed? Well, I think we had we had never fallen out of love. Um. I think it was I have to take a responsibility for some of it, definitely. Um, I was a little out of control. I had a bit of a drinking problem. Um, but I you know, I I've been working on that for a long time. Do you drink it all? Now?

Have you fallen off the wagon since stopped or consistently? What got you to stop? I just think I realized I was hurting myself, not just myself, but my kids, my wife, everybody family. I was that's a different guy, you know this other person that really how long did that go off for? How long were you a different guy? Well? I realized I started drinking, you know, when I was six, of course, right in England beer horrible beer. But then um, when I went to France, I became you know, evity

into wine, you know, rich food. Um, but it was alcohol pretty much. And m you know, I look back on it, and I do have to. I've got a lot of gratitude for everybody that kind of stuck in there and stuck by me and have helped me. And I've got a relationship, a very good relationship with my children, and they were at times scared of me and those kind of things. You know, you think I've made them scared?

How the hell did I do that? You know? And I've done some soul searching and and try and remember that whenever I do, I can't have a glass of wine. Even so, how did you stop? I went to rehab? But who convinced you to go to rehab? Finally, at the end of the day, it was Eric Clapton really invited me down to cross Roads. Yeah, did he know that you had a drinking problem where people had told you? People had told him? And so you go to rehab? How long do you go? For? Month? Month? And when

you come out? Because I stopped drinking myself. This was before it was cool to not drink at a bar, and although I didn't slip, it was very hard for a while not drinking. Like your world life is built around it. So it is. It's a complete readjustment. Okay, just going back one chapter because I discussed this with Bud. What's your favorite? I want to know what love is you're waiting for a girl like you. Um boy, that's a tricky one. Um M. When you for a girl

like you had a very emotional pool on me. It was I don't know what it was, but it was a song that I wrote with Luke we basically written in five minutes. I was playing chords I never played before what I was doing, but somehow it worked, you know, and it became such an emotional, emotionally charged song for me. I couldn't even at one point, I couldn't even be in the control room without losing it. And it had

a mysterious power. Well that's my favorite too, But was but was more into uh, I want to know what love is? But I used to argue with them, you know, I had by other reasons in that want to know what love is a haunting and I don't know more of a rock field. I mean, I love first of all, came out first, so I knew it so and an event. It's been great having you here, Mick. Thanks for telling us the whole story, okay, and I think you remember quite a lot. So until next time, it's Bob Left says