Michael Shrieve

it wasn't heavy music. And then it occurred to me, what kind of music could I make that I would want to listen to personally at two two thirty in the morning as a drummer. How would I approach that? And that's the question that started on the path.

was like sixteen toms in a semi circle. We did a project with him called Go with Al Damiola and Klaus Schultz and Pat Thrall and Steve Winwood, and so his setup was this beautiful setup where you could you could kind of run around the stage and play the drums, and I was very influenced by him. It even goes further back. So I thought, I want this to be a kind of record where drums are going to have to be featured, but it's not going to be backbeats

and it's not going to be like groove heavy. I want the drums to speak in a different way, in a different language than they usually usually are, at least in the States. I called upon a friend of mine, a synthesizer sound designer from Seattle named Jeff Grinky, and we began the project together. So it was very spacey, and I went into a studio we rehearsed and went into a studio called Bob Lang which is in northern Settle,

Richmond Beach. And that's a whole story about that studio where he'd bob for years, dug into the side of the mountain of a hill, literally and I thought it would be great because it had like thirty foot ceilings. So we did recording there and it was too much.

There was too much ambient reverb on the drums. And at that point then we went to London Bridge Studios, which is a very well known Seattle studio where Pearl Jam recorded their first album ten there and tons of other records, so that became the drums and the synthesizer tracks.

At a certain point I kept listening to I thought it sounded too new age, and I started adding other percussionists as they came into town, like Ayerto Morierra, who famous for playing with Chick Corea, and Miles Davis and Jack D. Jennette, also Miles Davis zuk Heir who s Tablamster. And I started layering these percussionists onto the tracks and then just grew it and grew it and grew it, and I just lived with it forever. But there was a skip forward eighteen twenty years. I kept wondering, why

am I not putting this sucker out? You know, I really love it, but what's going on with me, And when I changed insurance companies, they offered me to see a psychoanalysis for free for six months, and I said sure, and I went and I recorded every session on my phone, and then this issue came up, What's going on with me with this recording? Why is it that? What is it that's happening with myself that I'm not putting it out? Is it procrastination? Is it fear of what people will think.

Let's get to the bottom of it, because I really love it, and I just talked it through myself and I came up with the I realized. I came to the realization that I really love this record, and it's almost like the world doesn't really need another record, you know. I mean, he's like, who gives a fuck? You know? And and I've put other records out in the past. I've done a lot of solo work and stuff like that, and most of it's left of center. Most of the

stuff my contemporaries don't care for that I do. They're kind enough to say they don't like it, but they don't say anything. And so all along I'm following my own muse. But what I came to this realization is I like this record too much. It's okay if I don't put it out. I like it and I want to keep it that way. I don't want to just put it out and nobody gives a shit, or you know, people say, oh, Michael, here he goes again. He lost

his lower chakras, you know. And and then once I realized that that was the reason it wasn't being put out, Bob, then I felt free to put it out. And I said, this is what you gotta do. You put it out, and it doesn't matter what other people think. In fact, this is the way you should make music. You should make the music that you love and that you dig deep enough inside yourself to bring out. And that's what you put out. And you don't do it with expectations

of people loving it or adoring you. And so finally, you know, I was tweaking it until the last hour of when I needed to let it go for deadline for the release. And now it's out and I'm perfectly happy with everything about it, from the packaging to the artwork, to the musicians, the mixes. And so that's the story of Drums and Compassion. Also, I should say that they're interesting thing because when I started the record, it was

a period. I remember that the Dalai Lama was talking about the human kind is coming into a period where what we need is more compassion, and I thought, well, Baba Olatunji, Michael Olatunji, the great African drummer who put out in the sixties a record called Drums of Passion, and in fact, Santana on their first album, recorded a piece of music from that record called Jingo Loba, and so I thought I'd play off of that and I'd go I'd call it Drums of Compassion, honoring Olatunji and

also honoring what the Dhalai Lama said. And it turns out that I was able to have Olatunji give the opening incantation on the recording, which was done in another recording session with a group I was involved with, called a Praxis Pool, with all the original Santana guys aside from Carlos, and they decided not to use this incantation, and that's how the record starts out, Drums of Compassion.

So it's been a long road and it feels really good to finally have it out and I can move on to other things.

And that I always thought the listening experiences when we came up in the sixties and seventies were just the right amount of time because it was A and a B side of vinyl, and the maximum recording time you should have on each side would be twenty minutes, so that the sonically it would sound better because the grooves are wider, preferably eighteen minutes aside, so I thought, I

want to make this. I mean, it's hard enough to get anybody to listen to anything anyway, much less an album nowadays, and I'm very aware of that, and so I thought, make it, you know, make it thirty five minutes long, so it doesn't take up so much time, but it could still take you on a journey. I mean, it's not a buffet all you can eat, it's a fine meal.

But anyway, I found this to be a really wonderful experience that you couldn't shut me up, you know, and I just kept talking and talking that I'd listened during the week to the recordings, and I found what I've what I learned is that it can be very helpful to be engaged in psychoanalysis, if for nothing else, to just be talking and have someone to talk to and in a safe space and they throw ideas back at you, and you so, I mean, I haven't gone back to any After that, I felt like, ah, I kind of

got what I wanted with this record. But I must say also that I wasn't living in anxiety about this record. It was just like, why the hell am I not putting this thing out? You know, I'm making all the other kinds of music in this but this one seems to be a different issue for me. And so once I realized that I loved it so much, I didn't want anybody to say anything negative about it. Then it was like, who gives a shit, this is what I love. Put it out there so you can move on to other stuff.

never felt quite like home to me. And I think that I realized that while driving through the Bay Area a couple of years ago. It's the topography. It's actually the trees and the and the hills and the you know, it's it's eucalyptus trees and oak trees, where up here it's pine trees. And it's this, that and the other. It's a wonderful place. I'm considering, you know, moving somewhere else, but I don't know where in the hell they go anymore.

With the way everything is going, it might be better just to stay put.

of the one of the founders of the Microsoft. You know, it's all a lot of wealthy people here because of Microsoft and Amazon and everything else, and so one of the first early founders had a place where it's kind of like jay Leno, you know, like a ton of cars that nobody else would have, and they held this event there and the woman that was the greeter there I was very much attracted to. And so I found out that this was his personal assistant and we had met before, but I asked him if he might if

I asked her out. So I did, and we've been together ever since. Funny thing about that night, though, I told her about ten years ago, I'll never forget this outfit that you were wearing. I described the outfit and it wasn't until like six years ago. She said, I gotta tell you, I never had an outfit like, I'm like, wow, do maybe I have the wrong woman? No? But yeah, So that's that's how we met. Pamela. I know that a friend of mine is friend of your wife of Dorian Ringer Ross.

before anybody did this kind of thing. He had his whole music collection digitized and you know, you could just push a button and the music came up. Now we all do that, but at that time, I, you know, I really respected what he did is starting the museum here, which is supposed to be a Jimi Hendrix museum. But no, I haven't had opportunity to get rich. Even though there's

rich people. It's a it's a different thing. I'm not a you know, there's ways that I thought I could have interacted with them in terms of Amazon even or or companies that like provide music, because I really love what music does in different environments. I'm a big fan of you know, it's like I don't listen to the blues for years, and then you walk into a tavern or something and the blues is playing and you go, wow, nothing nothing like the blues man. I mean in the

right place, in the right you know. I don't know if you're like that when you listen, but so much has to do with your mood, the time of day, and the and where you are specifically, you know, physically. And I like to make playlists. I love to make

playlists for different you know. I'll be in a restaurant and I think this is a really great restaurant, really cool, really hip, really kind of international, but the music sucks, and so I'll go home and I'll make a playlist for them that I think this would really make your place much better, much much like I found out later, like Riuichi Sakamoto did. I don't know if you heard

about this. Where the great you know, the great piano player composer riu Chi Sakamoto frequented a sushi bar in New York City that he absolutely adored, the food, the chef, And finally, one day he went to the owner chef and he said, whatever his name, son, I really think you're a genius with the food. I come here all the time because I appreciate you and the place, But I would you mind if I make a playlist for here? Because I don't like the music that you play. And

it's a great story. And they ended up writing an article about it in the New York Times, and then the playlist was published on Spotify, and I thought, this is so great. I completely get this. You know, I love the place, but I can't stand the music. So I'm a big fan of creating playlists for different sort of vibes. And I do it for friends if they're getting married or if they're doing this and that, just because I enjoy it.

Bar was happening. I think it started in Paris, and I always liked their playlist and somebody took me in there one night when I was in Paris and they were playing music of mine, and I thought, this is the fucking coolest thing. I mean, I'm in the Buddha Bar and my album transfer Station Blue with Klaus Schultz and my brother Kevin was playing, and I thought, this is this is what I like. I mean, I see

my music going in different places than most people. I mean, what I do now is I look at websites like Sedition Arts, and I look at the graphic artists from around the world, Berlin and Japan, and they make the most beautiful you know, digital art, moving art, and I'll take down their music and I'll put my music in there, various pieces and see what works, and then if it works out, con attack the artist and I'll say, let's collaborate,

let's do you know. I mean, I would like to see music more look for more interesting ways than than you know, like like more environ you know, complete environments, and and so I'm excited about I'm excited about the future in that way.

And the sister said, oh, somebody must be having some problems in the neighborhood, and let's let's stop and say a prayer and and all that. So everything was fine until some kids, you know, actually went and told on me, you know, like really so uh, and it was a big deal. My father had come down and my father was like, come on really, And then my father got an argument with the main nun and and and I got kicked out, so that there went my There went my My career is being a priest, which I was

considering doing. So I went to this public school and I must have been banging on the desk or trying to be funny. I got kicked out of the class, and I told me to go to the principal's office.

So I went to the principal's office and I got scolded, And on the way back to the class, I passed a room that was the band room, and the whole percussion section was right there at the door, and the door was open, and it just stopped me in my tracks enough so that I got in trouble for being taking so long to get back to the other class. But that day I went and bought drumsticks and got three rug samples and started playing the drums.

then the other side where it's just the band. That's so cool. That was like that was like, I mean, I feel the same way now. We were just talking about that here where now you can isolate tracks of of you know, recordings, and I still feel like that is revelatory, you know, And so that was very exciting. So I was into the Beatles. I was into It

was also time of Jefferson airplaying Grateful Dead. So it was this time when the Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia they were happening in Palo Alto and I lived in Redwood City, which is a suburb of San Francisco in between San Francisco and San Jose, and so they put me back in a Catholic high school, all boys high school, and I would take the train from Redwood City to Mountain View in order to make band every day. And

I loved it. I loved being on the train. But stuff started to happen and it was like Jefferson air Plane. I remember going to a concert in Redwood City in Palo Alto, I mean, and it was Jefferson air Plane and it was Santana before they were they had a record, and I thought, I saw Jack Cassidy and Orma and I was looking at Jack Cassidy with those shades and you know his hair, and I thought, man, how do you get to be that cool? How does one you know,

how would I go about it? And I remember seeing Santana as well, and and then I was into I got into rock music, but it was more like funk, and then I started getting into jazz. But I learned from a couple of friends in high school that all that San Francisco music was coming from folk music. It was just electrified folk music. Basically. Jerry Garcia, you know, was a banjo picker and Yorma was you know, acoustic picker,

and they were you know. I mean that's the time when say, Richie Haven's album was out, you know, and it was that vibe, that was a strong vibe. So the whole scene that San Francisco sing was a very powerful poll for a young any young person, much less than aspiring musician, which I had become at that point. And I just kept playing with as many people as I could. But I never owned my own drums until after high school, and so I would always have to

borrow drums for any gigs or anything like that. I was into it, you know. Then I went to junior college in sam Matteo, and there was a guy named Dick Crest who allowed me to be in the big band. And I've been into gene Krupa and that kind of stuff too, and he put me set me up. He said it was one of those school situations where professionals

could join the big band, they could audition. They were the guys that were playing on Broadway in San Francisco could come down an audition and be in this school band. And for some reason he chose me and just said there's something about you that I like. And so I learned how to play in a big band. And at that period, that's when John Coltrane's happening, Miles Davis, and I learned that where the activity was, the excitement was

in these small groups, not the big bands. I mean, I would go see Buddy Rich and I would go and I loved all that stuff. I would go see Count Basie and I loved it. But the exciting thing was happening with drummers like Tony Williams and Jack d Jeannette and Elvin Jones. And so then I pursued that and R and B. So I always played in R and B bands, and the only rock bands I played in were like high school bands. You know, you'd play

a school dance or something. But I was serious about R and B. Every time James Brown came out with a record, I'd be down at the club and I don't know why they'd let me in, but I'd go down there and play the latest James Ground Brown groove. And so that's what I was aspiring to be, is really like a more like a jazz drummer. To tell you the truth.

a lot of Broadway music. My mother was into the Broadway and I mean I was totally into all that stuff too. I mean, you know, we got a problem. We got a problem right here in River City.

It was a big deal to see that movie and the big screen because we all knew the music and everything already, and that was that was very influential stuff to me as well.

the corner who had one. There was another guy whose father owned owned a deli in Redwad City and they lived in Woodside, which is you know, a wealthy area, and he had a drum kit that he didn't play so much, so he would let me use that. My first drums that I bought was on the road after high school, and I bought him saving up well on the road, and those were the drums I played at Woodstock.

drum kit somewhere there in like North Dakota. And I knew all along what I wanted to get because I used to be under the covers with the Ludwig catalog looking at drums. I knew how much a drum key costs, and I knew this, and so I knew what I wanted. So I was just fortunate, I guess to either they had drums or I borrowed drums during high school to play these gigs. Some of the guys that I played with were They lived in you know, Atherton Menlo Park,

so they had money. They probably had extra drums there too. You know. My father was very much in my corner for and supportive of me playing drums, and so I'll

always be grateful for that. And he loved music, and he loved musicians, and he loved black musicians, you know, and we lived in the suburbs, but he was just like you know, I mean, there was one time when my brother and I went to Stanford University to see John Coltrane, and I didn't have tickets, and I'm not sure how it happened, but I ended up coming through the ceiling in the men's bathroom, which turned out to be the dressing room where Elvin Jones and Jimmy Garrison

and McCoy tyner were and they're like, who the hell is this? And that's the first time I met Elvin Jones. And he invited us up to San Francisco where they were playing at the what's it called Jazz Workshop Broadway in San Francisco, and my father drove us up and of course we didn't realize that they wouldn't let us

in because we weren't twenty one. So we stood outside like little puppies watching as what my father got all night carrying on with Elvin and Jimmy Garrison having the time of his life, you know, watching Coltrane.

going to fail you. I said, you know it'll be worth it. And so it wasn't. Well. He gave me an f. I said, you know, I'm the one in this class that cares more than any other kid in here about what you're talking about or teaching, and so you know you're making a choice like this. So it pissed me off enough that I quit everything in college except for big band. And that was a period of time when it was like hippie time and it was us in them and straight people and you know, other people.

And so I decided that if I'm going to do this, I'm gonna do I'm gonna take it, approach it like a job. So my drums were set up in the living room in our little suburban house.

and a third whatever it was, and learned things. And I was taking lessons, and then at three o'clock i'd go to big band, and then at night i'd go play clubs around the Palo Alto area, and that's what I did for a good solid couple of years, and I really progressed because I was practicing all day long.

Stills and Michael Bloomfield. All Right, So I called all my friends for some reason, my musician friends, and said, let's go see if we can sit in and and so they're like, yeah, right. And then there's one guy that said, man, that sounds like fun. Hold on one second. I was still living at home. He was living with

a girl already. He came back after talking to his girlfriend and said, uh, I think I'm just going to stay in And I think that that night when he said that was the reason I didn't get married till I was in my thirties. So I borrowed my father's car and I said, damn it, at least I can go and say that I tried. I'm going to go and just say, you know, what the hell I mean. You know, they're right, probably nothing's gonna happen, but I'm

going to go. So I drove up to the city, went to Fillmore West, walked in in Census, going past the apples, grabbed an apple before I could get my fear go up. I walked straight up to the stage to Michael Bloomfield looked up and I pulled down on his pants and I said, hey, man, I'm a drummer. You think I could sit in and it's like, okay, my job's done. At least I tried. I'm waiting for him to, you know, laugh at me or whatever. Instead he leans down and said, man, the drummer is a

really nice guy. Let me go ask him. And I'm like, oh shit, you know this I didn't expect. Well. I ended up sitting in that night. I mean, it was so traumatic, I don't even remember it. But afterwards I was backstage, which is oh man, I'm backstage here, you know, with all these guys, and the bass player in Santana and the manager in Santana at that time came up to me and said, we heard you play, and we're thinking about getting another drummer, you know, And so they

took my number, and I didn't hear from them. So what happened was somehow Jeff's an airplane heard about me and they invited me. Yorma and Jack, those were my guys, and they invited me to go to La They were recording Bathing at Baxter's that record and the first airplane ride I ever took was with those two guys PSA and where the stewardesses were really all cute and with short pink skirts, and it was special to fly back then. And Buddy Miles, I remember, was on that flight as well.

And I stayed with Yorma. What was that hotel so where everybody stayed, you know, No, the other one.

they put it down a record. And you know, that was like my weekend in La. It's like if I went back home, nobody would believe me, you know, And so I would go over to the Jeffson Airplanes, their mansion on Fulton St.

I mean, Ken Kesey would be there. Jeez. There were a night at Orma's house where it's just like unbelievable stuff for a kid that was like seventeen or something, you know, it's like and somehow it didn't work out with them. And so I'm back at my parents' house and I go sit in up there at the Fillmore and I don't hear from them, but as one does when you're a musician, you're always looking for free studio time.

And I went to this studio in San Matteo, the same city that I went to college and where I used to go there all the time, try to get studio time. And I walk in. As I'm walking in, literally the drummer in Santana. We passed each other at the doorway. I go inside and Santana is there recording

their first album for Columbia. They had been to La and it didn't They didn't like the vibe, and so they just had a falling out with their drummer, and a couple of guys remembered me from that night at the Filmore, and then they asked me if I wanted to play, If you want a jam, you know and lead. We played for a long time, and after that they took me in a room, I mean it was Carlos and Greg Rawley, I think Carabello, and they asked me if I wanted to join the band, and I said,

you know, let me checked my schedule. So they followed me home, literally to my parents' house. I go in and pack a few things. I wake up my folks and say, okay, this is where I get off. I'll be up in the city and I'll be in touch. And I drove up to the Mission District with these guys and took my place on the Where was I on the couch? Yeah, on the couch, And now I was in the band.

day long, every day. And then after rehearsal, we'd go to the film wore we could get in for free and we'd go check the groups out, and you know, it was like quite a life. But we were working hard. And I soon realized, I said this in my speech at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, that this was no hippie love thing. This was like a street gang and their weapon was music. And it was really like that. It was like they're serious, you know. I mean, they'd make fun of you if you weren't doing it right.

You know, it's like your mama that type of thing, you know, and so you had to get thick skinned, and you know, it's it was. It was so much better than being in Jefferson Airplane. It was just meant to be Jefferson Airplane. Like I listened to every once in a while not really, but like David Crosby's first album, which I played on and I listened to it, and it's that music. It's hard for me to play, you know, It's like I don't even know how it can sound

good kind of. So the Santana thing was perfect because it was fiery and I was not at all a Latin drummer, not whatsoever. But I approached everything like a jazz drummer and it fit and it was just such a natural place for me to be musically, and then be friends with Yorman and Jack from Jeffson Airplane.

we do a better take, we do this, okay. The guitars could punch in, keyboards could punch in, drums couldn't punch in, and so, and the demand of the intensity was great. You know. It wasn't like mister nice guy's stuff. It was like, motherfucker, come on, you know. And so, but I loved it. I just it was just perfect place for me to be. And then the record was done and we beg We'd be gigging all over the place in the Bay Area and some places down the coast.

And Bill Graham was a big fan of the band, and he he told us about a big festival that's coming up. He said, you're going to play this festival and your lives are going to change after it. And I'm going to tell you right now, it's not going to be like anything that you ever experienced, and you don't you want to keep yourself in check. And so he prepared us for this festival by sending us out and doing festivals like the Texas Pop Festival, Atlanta Pop Festival,

Miami Big festivals. You know, of course there were San Francisco bands playing, but other bands as well, and it sort of got us playing in front of larger audiences

than say Fillmore's or auditoriums and things like that. And then you know, of course the festival that he was talking about was Woodstock, and Michael Lang and John Roberts and the folks that put it together had bitten something off, but they realized that it's a little more they can chew that they you know, it got big and they asked Bill Graham, which probably really hurt them because Bill Graham was already like the man to them, right. And Bill said, yes, they do it if he could pick

a band to play at the show. And so he gave them like three or four options. I forget, I don't know who the others were. And Michael Lang and those guys decided they listened to Santana and they said Santana. So that's how we got on that show.

you know, we can't drive there. We're gonna have to go to the holiday in where they have helicopters and we're going to have to go in that way. So we flew in on the helicopter, I think with the Dead I know, Jerry Garcia was there, Janie, and that's when we realized, you know, it's like, holy shit, I mean, look at this amount of people. This is like you never nothing you'd ever experienced before, much less that you're going to play in front of them. So so that

was really something. But by the time we got to play there, By the time we got on stage, and one of the things that I realized in respect Bob is that as a band. We never thought of ourselves as quote unquote entertainers. We were like serious musicians band. We played to inspire each other, and so we were always kind of close, I mean physically, so that we could hear each other and that we could like look

each other in the eyes. And it was a huge stage, and the other stages that we had played on that summer were huge too, but we always work close to each other physically, and it was the same thing at Woodstock. So the only frightening thing about Woodstock was I remember my thinking was, this is like being at the ocean and all you can see is water until you see the horizon, and it was it was like being at the ocean, except it was people. We were very high up as well, and so there it was quite a

bit distance. And so in later years I thought, after being in Santana and stuff, I thought, it's more difficult to play in a smaller club than a huge place because you can see the people you know. And we had the benefit of us being a band that played two and four each other, and so so it was very intense. And the other thing is that I keep forgetting is that nobody had heard any of our music. Everybody else had an album out, nobody had heard any of our music. But by the time we were done,

they loved us. And I think I attribute that to it was we were so tribal and they were tribal. It it just clicked. You know. The band was one big rhythm section and oftentimes not with little funky intimate parts like James Brown or something, you know, with this kind of guitar or this like every you know, the bandwidth was really wide and it was all playing the same rhythm at the same time, and it just it just worked, to say the least.

my mommy. You know, no, I didn't think that, but it's like, what do you do. It's like a place you'd never been before, you know.

you know, something like that. And but it was never where people would pointing at me going down the street. I would get recognized and and you know, but it was it was never quite like that.

to this day. You know, he's not just riffing, and they're memorable, and so you could see that what he had in mind was like memorable melody that would stand the test of time. We were really good at arranging songs. I brought Fleetwood Max Black Magic Woman to Greg Rawleigh.

I mean, the hippies love the blues and and so these are kind of iconic and this record, to me sounded iconic. But I also thought that Greg this would fit his voice very well, and so I brought it to him and he learned it, and he kept trying to present it to the band at sound checks, and it took a while, you know, for it to sync in to Carlos or the other guy, but then it started.

We started working on an arrangement, and I think one of the one of the best things about the band was how we arranged the tunes simple as they may be, to be dynamic and classic, you know, I mean, I mean Bill Graham brought us Okova, you know. Yeah, Bill was a salsa fan, and so he suggested that tune and then evil ways. Like these guys when I when

I first started living with them, their tastes were. It was really fascinating to me because the stuff that they liked sometimes seemed so crude to me, you know, like like crude. Like for instance, one of the tunes that the band played, uh before I was in, I mean, they already did Jingo, they already did some other tunes, but was one called fried neck Bones by Willie Bobo. And all it was was a groove and it was fr neck Bones and some home fries wood, you know,

over and over and over again. And I'm thinking this is so basic, you know, so rudimentary, It's like it almost makes me laugh. But to them, it was all about the groove, you know. And so in the arrangements that that we would create create for these songs, it was all about the groove. But there was also dynamics in the piece, like I think that the Black Magic Woman arrangement is really brilliant that Santana did you know?

And Carlos is like his theme up at the top, and the drums the way they come in, and then the beat that I play. The beat that I play I learned from a record that I bought for fifty nine cents in a drug store when I was a kid. It was like bb King plays the cha cha and I pulled that out of the hat. But that's blues players were playing that rhythm anyway, so it's not like I created anything. But but yeah, so also with that record, I got to toot my own horn here because I

edited the singles. I edited like like Oilcova. I'd go into the editing room and not tell anybody in the band and I make a single out of it because the band was kind of a jam band in a lot of ways, and I just had a knack for editing and I enjoyed it, and I was kind of fearless with it. And you know, this is the kind of thing that you don't tell anybody or they'll argue with you, you know, so just do it if they don't like it, and say, gave all the tape, you know,

to the engineer. But yeah, that record was interesting also. We were doing it at Wally Hiders Studios in San Francisco on Hyde Street and which is now a den of iniquity, and that was just unbelievable to look at. But at the same time we were recording that, Creten's clear Water was recording their big hit album in another room downstairs. I got called down to play with David Crosby. David Crosby was down there. I just saw a picture of this like six months ago for the first time.

It's me behind Crosby and then the Jerry Garcia and Phil Lesh and Neil Young, you know. And I'm like, you know, I don't even remember these things, you know, and or you think you do, but then here's a photo, you know. And this was all happening in the same studio at the same time. That was another discipline band was Queen's clear Water. They were different. They were not of the hippie ilk you know. I mean John Fogeli ran a tight ship and wrote tight songs as well.

Rawley later, you know, learn some stuff on it. But that arrangement of that song, I'm trying to remember the song. I think that was. That line came from like an advertisement like cleaner than this, some kind of like cleaning cleaning oil or cleaning liquid. And then that bum bum bum bum dundown. So all that. So there's like two or three sections just to the intro, so it was

a little bit complex for us. And then to me is the most beautiful part where it goes into the domm doom and that part that I'm playing, I can't play that anymore. It was so it was so I worked a long time on it, and if you play, you have to play it lightly, but it's like a slow motion wise, just like GETT. It was pretty complex, but it was such a joy. It was just such a pleasure because this is kind of like my my

Brazilian jazz light style. To play with Santana now it's like I can't even I can't even play that hard, you know, And so I just loved it. And plus what I loved was Carlos is playing, I mean, his melodicism and the way he would arrange his his solos, you know, which were they were not like the usual solos like a Bloomfield solo or a Claptain solo. They were parts that were, you know, burned in your memory. And I always loved playing that. It showed a certain

level of musicianship. And then when it breaks open on the end to that slow halftime thing, I don't know, it's just sexy as hell. It's so sensual, and Carlos and I always were like there with that, you know, and he would bend that note and take forever to come down like a water, you know, and I was, you know, I'm like that guy, that the type of drummer that's the hopeless romantic, you know. So I'm like drooling and sweating and just like right there with it.

You know. It's this music that moved me. There was another tune on that record, See which one was it? Do you have a list of the tunes? Yeah?

It's just so beautiful. It's simple, but man, it's a feel too, you know. And I knew the value of that song that was. It was like a Carlos classic. Same thing with Shako bo. I ended up recording it, but that rhythm is his k comes from him, you know these You know, I'm still the white kid from the suburbs at this point, you know, opening myself up to because he he was nic Roguin. Michael Kerrabello is of Puerto Rican descent, and and so it was a

blend of these different things. It wasn't like New York salsa, let's put it that way. And so that that rhythm I would just transfer to the uh tom thoms for socoo. You know, that was new for me. You know, stuff like jingo even you know, goom goom, doom, goom goom. It's just basic. But I've seen a lot of cover cover bands do that stuff, and if it's not right, it's not right, you know. So I learned a lot from that. So what on na koya? That's Tippito again too, what's the other one?

of the songs too, it's all like setting a mood. Really, but there was one other tune. I'm trying to think, if it's on this, maybe it's on another album.

you know, sex, drugs in rock and roll. Here you go, you know so much at such a young age, and you know, they hopefully they teach courses about that stuff now, but they didn't then. And you're kind of lucky if you survive, and then you're even lucky if you, you know, can think and still make the music you want to make. So that was a heady time. A lot of cocaine. There was a lot of cocaine around that period, and that that druggle do it. So Trpezzo had an aneurysm

in his brain. He took some somebody gave him some acid and it didn't go well with him and he was never quite the same after that. Coke Escavito, who was Sheila's uncle, and Pete Escoveto were in and around the band at that time too, because they were well regarded Timbali and Latin players. There was also a band called a brack as Teca at that time that was their band and very popular, had a lot of great players. Coke Escavito became a big influence on Carlos during that period,

and he brought in no one to depend on. Although I've heard that tune since by somebody else, like Tito punt or something. He brought in another Tito Puente song for that album, and perhaps the song but inside we were still playing well, but it was starting to split at the seams a little bit and it was difficult to make that, but it's still a great record. I think it's really a great record. Let's see what else is on that record.

and so Greg was like, holy shit, who is this guy? Now? This is what Greg wanted, you know, like for his songs. He wanted like a Clapton kind of vibe. And Carlos was as great as Carlos was. I know that Greg always wished they had this other thing. So he had the balls to propose that, you know, Neil maybe play with us. And and I remember there was one night Neil's in high school, mind you and he goes to the Berkeley Community Theater and he sits in with Eric

Clapton playing Leila and you can imagine, you know. And then and then Eric Clapton asked him if he wanted to join his band. Can you imagine Neil going to high school? It's like it's like my it's like my trip to la Like who's gonna believe you? You know? And and then Carlos like it was so big of him to say, yes, okay, you know, we can have another guitar player in the band. And and that opened it up in a lot of ways. In some ways,

so Neil was in the band. He had to make a choice between Santana and Eric Clapton and kind of heady for junior in high school or something, uh, and obviously a prodigy, very based in that Eric Clapton vibe. And so obviously he chose Santana because he's familiar with the guys and you know, we're writing the neighborhood and that sort of thing. So that's how Neil got in the band. And then that changed some of the writing.

It's changed some of the the approach, but the guitar solos there came like two guitar solos and they were very different. But but I think Neil also kicked Carlos's butt too.

and roll, but this is some new stuff. Me having followed the jazz thing and seeing what's happening is the jazz guys are kind of moving over to the rock vibe, at least playing a backbeat, and things are changing. You know that Bitches Brew Miles Davis went in the studio to record Bitches Brew one day after Woodstock. Wow, that's what Lenny White told me. So it's like there's change happening here and it's very exciting and and I was all over that and all over the Brazilian music that

was happening music. You know, Sergo Mendez was doing really interesting things, and Carlos and I started leaning in that direction, and we also started getting tired of the lifestyle and we both got spiritual teachers. Now that started because John mcgloffin, he had you know, Streech of Noi and has done Mamavius Orchestra, which was like, like going to that show

is like going to another planet. You know, It's like I'll never forget, like having to scrape myself off the wall after sliding down, you know, after hearing Billy called me in the volume of that band and it was just otherworldly. And that's when I realized, I am never going to play play like that in my life. There's no way I'm ever gonna play like that in my life. So don't even try, you know, find your own way

and h and be happy. So so Carlos and I started bringing this kind of music into the band, like live, like even on last days at the film more we do.

But you could see the connection we after the third album, Carlos and I were so into this stuff that we and we were popular enough that we would we would hire weather Report to be our opening act on a tour so we could just watch them every night, you know, one one time with Bobby Womack, so I wanted to try to write with them. I love Bibie Womack, I

love Maybe Staples, right, that kind of singer. So okay, So we go in the studio and we're very influenced by by you know, Antonio Carlos, Joe Beam and Pharaoh Sanders and Coltrane and Miles and and we have a new bass player now named Dougie Rouch who we met in Africa at that concert in Africa, and he was kind of genius with odd times and electronics ahead of

his time. And we started playing this stuff and we did the album and it was very conceptual album too, I mean, you know, crickets at the top and the saxophone where I did twenty seven edits of Hadley Calluman solo to make it like a sound pastiche. And it's still a beautiful record. I didn't listen to it until the fiftieth anniversary, like in the last year, and I gave it a listen all the way through and I thought it blew my mind.

career suicide, you know, And but we loved it. And so Herbie was so pissed he said, I'm gonna start a band. I'm gonna put a band together based around Neil Sean and it's gonna be progressive, but it's going to be rock and roll. And Greg Rawley was there and that's how Journey started. So I always figure, ah, I had a big hand in starting Journey, which I had a piece of it.

I mean I always wanted to. I mean, before I got kicked out of that school, I wanted to be a priest. You know. I was a guy that rode my bicycle to mass six am Mass every day, and I in my mind, I was going to be a servant of God. I was going to be specifically, it was going to be a missionary priest. Don't ask me why. So later, while being on the road for you know, two hundred days, I said, I'm a missionary, you know.

And but it's the music, it's it's it's okay. So I started getting deep into reading all of the the Eastern religion books. I was very much into it. And and I went with Carlos to see shreepedim Noid for the first time in New York. To me, we both took a taxi out there and went and sat in front of him while he was like on a stage and he meditated, and the whole place turned white. It was really phenomenal. And and then back in the taxi, Carlos was like, Man, I think I found my guy.

that we wanted to move in a new direction. And that's how that's how all that happened Caravanserai, and and that's how the band broke up.

And I've very much always been into sound and frequency and vibration. I'm not a hippie, but I'm pretty out there, you know so, But I have a I have a better sense of humor now than I used to. Uh. I was pretty strict and hard on myself, uh and pretty a snob in a lot of ways. There's a lot of music I didn't like. I didn't like Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, come on, you know this? That is more like I want players. But now I'm I'm much more open and I can accept just the vibe, you know, what,

the intention, what somebody's doing. And but I still have the same hunger to find new music constantly, which I find that most of my contemporaries do not, you know, I mean I'm I love finding new music. I mean, whether it's like the English or Norwegian or Scandinavian jazz scene. The younger people who come up, they came up with electronics, but they came up liking Coltrane and and Pharaoh Sanders and so it makes for really interesting combinations. I just

discovered this guy the other day. You probably know him. His name is Wren. You know, this guy so out there, Bob. It's so out there, but it's brilliant. I mean it's like he's got this song where he's talking to himself like two different like and it's so deep and intense, and you got to say you can say like sister is fucked up, or you say this is really interesting, you know. I mean, so I'm I'm of the mind that there's a lot of good music going on out there.

And I read you all the time talking about, you know, how musicians keep barking up the same tree when that tree is like there's no more bark on it, you know. And that's why I'm curious to put my music in different environments now, with these digital artists or you know, immersive situations and and and you know, I mean, I'm going to be seventy five years old next week, you know. And I mean, I'm enjoying making my AI art as much as I used to love playing drums. And now

that's a big area too. That's like, that's like, that's as heavy as talking about Trump or Biden. You know, you start talking politics, you start talking AI. But I see it as a tool and I think we're living in exciting times. Scary times, mind you, but but I'm excited by you know, what people are doing in music. You just you can't look on the charts. You can't look here or there. You got to look in different places.

and Flora you know, are you familiar with them? Yeah? So they were in the studio one night. We had done a tune and that I had co written called Yours is the Light, and Flora Uh was going to sing it. I wrote the lyrics and she sang it, and my playing on it is one of the proudest moments of my Santana career. Playing this style of like Brazilian music, you know. It was It's kind of like incident Nicheborg type of you know, like, oh, this is

really something I can be proud of. And then at the end of it, Carlos looked over at I hear two and asked him, do you want to redo the drums? You know? And I here two listened to it and said, I'm not fucking touching that, you know, and I'm like, thank you. I hear too. And that night I realized it it wasn't me and Carlos anymore, you know what I mean. It's like, if he in front of me is going to ask somebody to redo my track, it's

like time for me to get out of here. So what happened was I was living with my brother Kevin, and I had this extreme pain. I had to crawl into his bedroom and say, take me to the hospital. And I thought I was going to die, and I said, if I wake up alive. On the way to the hospital, I said, if I wake up alive, I'm gonna have to do the things that I've been putting off and make some changes. I woke up alive. Turned out to be a kidney stone. Wow, and those suckers hurt.

promise that I made to myself. I'm sure you can find somebody else. I'm not going, and that's why I left the band. So it wasn't on great terms, but I was the last guy to leave from the original band. But I felt like now it was different. What I thought was like the two of us, it wasn't, you know, so I mean, we're back in touch now. We talked for an hour yesterday, you know, stuff like that, but there was you know, that's how I left the band, and it was it was really wonderful. I ended up

going down to Baja California to this health place. It's really well known, and I stayed there for a month. I brought my drums, I got super healthy, and I came back and it just think, okay, where do I want to go from here?

And I wanted it to be conceptual, and so I brought a friend of mine up there, young keyboard player named Bayete Todd Cochrane, who was like kind of a prodigy in the jazz scene, and while watching the Wall, I told him like what I'd like to do, and we started conceptualizing and putting it together, found Pat Thrall and Donnie Harvey and rehearsed every single day at my house,

like every single day. And then I also at this time had pursued Stomia Marshtaw and that was a recording that was going to happen through Chris Blackwell in London, and so the manager of Automatic Man flew to London to meet with Chris Blackwell, and we made it so that I could do both projects at the same time in London, and we made a brilliant album. And that's where I met Chris Kimsey and oh my god, I just enjoyed that interview so much.

a drummer. It's just your friend. So it was like that. It's like, Michael, you know, why don't you do it? And so so I did it. It was a real real Herbie Herbert project. You know, real tight. Everything was clean and you know, really good. But it's not really my Like I said, I'm not really a rock drummer. But I had a good time doing it. The guys

were great. I respected them. Years later, Sammy came out with his book, you know, with Joe Selwyn friend, and it was really I was reading it and he said, so we got this drummer, Michael Shreeve. Now Michael's a great rhythmic drummer, but he's no rock drummer, you know. And I practically split up my coffee because I thought, how outrageous the thing to say, you know, and I thought, he's absolutely right. You know, he's absolutely right. I mean,

you gotta be honest with yourself. You know, I'm not that kind of rock drummer. I wasn't back then, and more than ever, i'm not now. I mean I can kind of get by with that kind of plane. And so it was a quick project that took like a month to do, you know, live recording, the live shows, filming of the shows, and then it was see you later, and that was that.

not for you, and it's not going to happen. And that day my girlfriend the time I was living with I rented a boat a lake in Golden Gate Park and I said, I think it's time for me to go to New York City. This is what I've always wanted to do. And so I asked her if she would come, and so moved to New York City. I kind of moved outside of New York City to Rockham County to Grand View on Hudson. Really interesting story. So I bought a house from a guy named Lee Friedman

on the Hudson He's in the city. Lee Friedman's the guy that ended up doing all the merchandising for Kiss. He came from like Betsy Johnson that scene, and we became friends. So by the time it was when it was time for me to move into the house, I went in to move and the family that was there had not moved out. So I get there physically and I'm like, what's going on? And the guy that was living there was Arimavakian. Are you familiar with Aaron Avakian.

They dissed him in the in the in the movie about the making of The Godfather, and it wasn't true what they were saying about him. But he was so upset because his wife had run off with al Pacino, and and so you know that could be expected he had he he didn't have. He couldn't get together to pack up and move. Later, I became like his daughter became my girlfriend. I'm still good friends with his son,

guitar player Tristanovakian. So I moved in there and then I decided, well, really why I wanted to move to New York City to be in the city, and so what I did was I started a band called Novo Combo, and I thought, I'm give myself a shot at this sort of commercial thing again. I met a guy named Stephen D's through Bill o'coyn kiss, his manager, and we put a band together and we made a couple of albums, some really good stuff, but it ended up falling apart

as well. And after that experience is when I said, no more bands, no more democracy bands. You know, I don't want to do anything unless I have final say and it's just what I want. And stop trying to make a hit, Stop trying to be beat your Santana stuff, Stop trying to show everybody you can still make a hit. Just fuck that. You know. You've always been left to center, do it and do it hard and be happy doing it. So anytime I went from money Bob, it just turned

out to be like it didn't work, you know. And so ever since then, it's sort of I've just done what I want, what I want to do, you know, and learn to live with whatever I have. And the money is not always great, it's up and down, but I'm perfectly happy, you know. So I mean because I feel kind of fulfilled, you know what I mean, I mean, I know guys and I talked to them often who have big bands and everything. I couldn't even live that way,

tell you the truth. You know, you've got to play all the hits from forty years ago or this, and there's so much ego, and it's like, I don't even want to live. You know, I don't even have to be a musician if I don't want to, you know, So if you're going to do it, do what you want to do, because it's kind of sad. I remember at the when we were inducted into the Hall of Fame, there was Fleetwood Mac and it was the Eagles same night.

And I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but I could see the wives of some of these guys from the Eagles and you know, like crying because their husband now is getting the recognition that they deserve. It look like roadkilled to me, where some people come out on top and they're all shiny, but the people behind them that have been through this stuff with them and they don't get what they what the stars get.

I'm choosing to do it. And that's why I'm also excited about the new possibilities of like places to put the music, you know, and I don't know, it makes it pleases me.

just want to meet me. You know. It's like I could do this, but you don't really You're not really interested in me doing it, are you?

snare drum. I'm gonna go back to basics and do you know, but I mean, I'm sitting here in the studio with drums, and I'll do a lot of stuff electronically and then the acoustic drums will be the last thing to go on instead of the first thing like it used to be. So It's more like I'm interested in creating musical environments, and then how do acoustic drums fit into that?

Is I mean even I'd like kind of music I'm making today. Look, I wouldn't mind having some of the some of the you know, some other drummers playing on it than myself, you know, like what's that band, what's the Bandyan Chang plays with? What they called? Uh yeah, Anyway, there's this drummer named Ian Chang, which is so cool and I love and I love the electronics stuff, and I've been doing that since the seventies as well, so I still find like it's exciting time to make music.

If I don't live in the past.