Lyor Cohen

first three years? Yes, okay, so you immediately moved to Israel only to age three, and then you moved to where I went, back to New York, back to York. What'd your father do for a living, Well, my dad is a was a child psychiatrist, child psychiatrist, and was there music in the house, enormous amounts of music. So from New York we moved to Los Feless on the East Side. And what year you moved to Las felis

Las Feless and probably sixty six. And there's a lot of music because my father was the first person that connected the intercom system to his record player, and so he loved Dixieland jazz and and chamber music. So throughout the house all we heard was Dixie Land, jazz and chamber music. Now, but the mid sixties the heyday of music in Los Angeles. So were you an active record buyer radio listener? Was a little kid then little kid? Okay, so what do you remember? My brothers were My oldest

brother was. My parents were very active, um, social people in uh. We attended all the love ins really, so they were hipsters. Um, they weren't hipsters, they're more hippies. My my father was instrumental with the classroom without walls, the community center, school and Antioch and all of that stuff. He's uh, you know. And my mother was a real active woman too. So we were surrounded by a lot

of love and and we're politically active. We try to elect McGovern and attended all the love ins really, So what were those experiences like because you know a lot of people that was before the internet. People would only read about that they didn't actually have the experience. Well, it was very young, but um, a lot of people and I remember, I'm going some of the love ins happened at Griffith Park. I don't know if you know that I don't. Yeah, and uh, um it was just

it was an extension. I actually grew up in the real hotel, California. My mother had what people would refer to as a salon where we had poetry readings, art exhibitions, UM, book fairs, uh anything, political rallies. The house was full of people all the time, and we used to house a lot of artists, find painters that stayed in our home sometimes upwards of a decade. So did you like that or not like that? I love that. It's the only thing I knew. I loved um the interaction between

you know, all sorts of people. It was. It was strange at times, but um, you know, that's what I knew. So and then people always ask the children of psychiatrists, it's that's also all you knew. Do you have any feeling good, bad, insights not insights? Well, I think that I was very lucky because, uh, there was a lot of love in the house. My father was a very high intellect. Um still alive. No, Unfortunately we didn't actually um do sports together. So we're four boys, and where

are you in the hierarchy? I'm number two and our father, um son's activity is more taking fits Is explained to my audience case, they don't know what that's a sauna? And um it was this in the Fairfax area. No, this was at the Jewish Community Center and lost Felis, and he would tell us stories Yiddish, mostly Yiddish stories. Do you speak Yiddish? I don't you understand it? Not? Not much, but it's very descriptive language, as you know. So um that was that was our the extent of

the I don't know, we just um my father. My father would constantly tell stories which actually had a lesson or a moral. Was that the type of story your fine would tell? No, No, imaginative stories, long and lustrative stories, beautiful stories. He wasn't spending his days trying to educate us. You know, we were living life, and I think living life in a pretty awesome way. So you went to one of these schools without walls yourself. No, I was the black sheep of the family. I actually, um was

the first uh test case of riddling. Um My dad signed me up for it, and that was a very hyperactive kid. And all my brothers went there. But I went to a more traditional school, thank god. And do you still take riddle into this day. I don't When did you stop taking the riddle in just before going to college and you think it helped? You think it was a big mistake. Oh no, I think definitely it helped. Okay, So you went to traditional school and this was in

Las VELAs, correct, John Marshall High School. Okay, And when did you music really drove the culture back then? But when did you start a personal affinity with music? So what what's interesting is that all my brothers were huge record collectors and they had lots of posters on the wall. I never collected a record, nor did I have a poster on the wall. And but it was interesting because they were all locked in their rooms with a very

particular style of music and they didn't cross pollinate. I was the one who was in each one each of my brother's rooms listening to all types of music, so I was open for the experience. They were, you know, always arguing which is the you know, best artist, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And that was that just wasn't my thing. And what did you like back then? Do you remember um? I

remember um being moved by the Delta Blues. My brother had a big thing going on with the Delta Blues, Um, Freddie King, I remember Janis chopping all all of that um stuff. I had my first kiss with Carol King Tapestry. I mean, I don't know. It was um, they're all over the place, and so you go to high school and you not what's your high school experience? Like? Um, My high school experience was pretty good. It's you know, Los Felis back then was a sleepy little village. It

was the pre strip malls. You know, those four parking spots with the po box and the Chinese food which were all over Los Angeles. You haven't been to Los Angeles, don't know, but from one end of the spectrum, from the Valley Hallway, Orange Country, endless strip malls. What what a disaster of urban planning. But I fortunately grew up in Los Felis prior to um strip malls. It was a sleepy little village and you know, we lived basically in Griffith Park and I don't know, it was wonderful.

Um upbringing, door always open. Um. Were you in on any athletic teams in high school? So? I was a quarterback and I lost my elbow? Really yeah, how did you lose your elbow? I went to throw a long pass and I got caught and had several surgeries. And we, of course, I said, lived in Griffith Park, and I had a cast on, and I picked up a set of three dollar clubs at a garage sale, and that summer played golf one with one arm, and then became Roosevelt. Um,

not Roosevelt, it was Coolidge. I don't know if you remember Coolidge. It was considered the number one pitching put in the country. Where was it? It was? You know, a football field away from Roosevelt's. Roosevelt is a part three across street from the Greek Theater on one end of Griffith Park. I I ended up playing there, but that summer I played exclusively Coolidge. And um, I became a great golfer after that. How's your how's your elbow today?

It's a gimp elbow doesn't straighten out, and UM, I don't know, probably helps my golf game, who knows. And so after high school you go to directly to college. Um, yes I did. And you went in Miami. Correct any specific reason why he went to Miami? Well, I uh was reacquainted with my biological father, who um insisted that if he were to pay for my college education. I had to go east of the Mississippi River. And it was three weeks before UM school was going to start,

and he says, I'll get you into any college. At the time, he was living in Nigeria in Africa, And so I threw a dart and I hit Key West and three weeks later I was at the University of Miami. I was the only Southern California And it's like absurd who from southern California would ever think about going to the University of Miami. But man, did I pick the right time. My timing is always really good. Bum That's

the thing, you know. I went during the cocaine cowboy era UM when they did the thirty on thirty at the U and we became national champions UM many years in a row, and it was just an extraordinary time to be in Miami. It was actually the only true trauma I had was it was the first time that I've ever bumped into a JAP And I remember, what do you explain to the audience, what you mean a JAP is a Jewish American prince or princess. And I remember calling it's funny because how do you feel as

a Jew? And I'm a Jew. Two, you can use the word jap. How about if a non Jew uses the word term jab it doesn't matter, Okay, I think it's very descriptive. So I remember talking to my mother and I said, Um, there's these guys. They're a really fancy cars. They listened to a lot of Saturday Night Fever and they have uh star of David's on their chest. And it just I can't figure out what planet they came from. And she couldn't help me either, because we

came from California. All our friends were basically hippie Jewish families and so um, that was an interesting dynamic for me to witness that at that stage of my life. And and and and I don't know, it was well, I know the similar experience. I grew up in the suburbs fifty miles from New York City in Connecticut, and I went to college where uh the people were prep school and you had these very rich non Jews. It was very I never ran into people like that before.

So being out irrelevant makes you more worldly. Yeah, well, you know it was interesting what what I say it was? You know, for me, it was a culture shock. Um, But I actually became very very close friends with many of the Latin American Jewish um Um kids that sent there from South America and Central America. And when pure serendipity or there was an affinity or why there's a there was a huge community. Um. Many of the Jewish families from Central and South America sent their kids to

the University of Miami. So, you know, I went to the hill Hel you know, I met other people. So UM we became very close friends and you maintain those relationships. Not really no odd okay, but just going back to the agree you're comfortable talking about. You said your biological father. Sure, can you explain what was going on there? So my parents UM divorced when I was an infant. UM. My parents met liberating Israel, and my father was one of the commanders of the Battle of Haral, which is the

hills leading up to Jerusalem. My mother comes from a very very famous family. My great grandfather is one of the signers, one of the pioneer families. Um was the founder of Bank Mizrachi. He was Rabbi Cook's assistant. Uh. He went to he was invited before immigrating to Palestine. Um to the Basil conference with Hertzel. Um he witnessed

Hertzel and invited him to his factory in Poland. He Um Hertzel came to the factory, gave an incredible speech, and the very next day my um great great grandfather sold the business and moved from a home that had fifty five bedrooms to barracks style living in Jerusalem. Where was Where was the home with fifty bedrooms in Poland? And was the epicenter of the Golden era of Jewish

life which was in Poland. Um in the fifteen hundreds, the Um Polish king decided that he was going to create a society that was free of religious persecution and everybody was able to practice. That's why UM Poland was such an epicenter for Jewish culture. And Um, you know that last couple hundred years. And what year did your grandfather then moved to Jerusalem around nineteen fourteen fifteen, very early on? Okay, And you were telling the story of

your biological thoughts. So my biological father, UM was didn't come from such an incredible family, very nice family, but UM not distinguished like UM my mother's family. And she didn't want him to be in the UM have a career in the army. So she encouraged him to get out of the pressure cooker and go and study engineering in New York City. And they had a very difficult life together. He really wanted to continue his career in the military. He was a security guard, a janitor, all

while going to school. A lot of pressure in the house and he was very physical and um my mother just couldn't take it anymore. So I decided to get a divorce and that's how it happened. I didn't see him for many many years. He became a uh AN engineer and then a specialist in building huge infrastructure, primarily in third world countries, and went on to have this big, very big career. And though of the four kids in the family, he's the father of how many, um my

eldest and myself. And did he get married again and have children again? He did? And so you have step brothers, sisters. I considered them all brothers and sisters. I don't like that step thing. And you have regular contact with them, yes, And so he ultimately had his second family where um they started in Nigeria, then went to Switzerland. Um and then to Israel. Okay, so he was financially successful and your ultimate feeling about him, you tell the story of

him paying for college. You did you have how much contact with you and you feel good about No? No, no, very little contact. Um and a very rough guy. And he always dangled money. Um the rabbi they countant the home. He had all sorts of rules of how you were able to inherit his money. And I didn't play by any of the rules. And I was the one only one cut out of the will. Really did you know in advance of his death that you were cut out of the will? I didn't know in advance, but I

had no interest in it either. It would it would. It was better for um my brother and sister, my two brothers and sister then and I was fine with that. Okay. So you go to the University of Miami. You involved in music at all there? Yeah? I was the director, the student organizer of of concerts. So okay, you say you listen to music in your brother's rooms. What motivated you to do that? And you know I'm active, and you know I don't actually know the story, sorry, and

so who do you remember some of the acts you brought. Yeah, I brought Loggins and Messina and I'm drawing a blank. But I had a pretty good run there. Now, University of Miami, even to this day is has a very famous music school. Were you involved with that at all? Not at all? Okay, So then you graduate from University of Miami. I do after after the traditional four years, and then what was the next step, I believe it or not. The next step was I thought that I

could be a shrimp farmer in Ecuador. And what did you know, somebody was a shrimp farmer in Ecuador. So my roommate was the grandson of the president of Equador. He didn't speak a lick of English. And I remember one year is English started improving, he told me about his uncle that loved shrimps, and he dug a ditch in his backyard and and made some very good shrimps. And another time he came back, he said that little ditch in the backyard is a couple of miles wide.

And that was the beginning of the shrimp farming industry. And I thought, because the University of Miami had a big marine biology, you know center, so I thought that I could actually do business in Ecuador and you know, be on the front end of that. But that didn't work out very well. Did you actually go to Ecuador and try I did? How long did that last? Um? That last about nine months? And it didn't work out because, uh,

just political situations. It got funky down there. Okay, So you leave Equador and then you go where I go to Los Angeles, back to my parents home, and my mother helped organize me to work for the National Bank of Israel in Beverly Hills and uh that's called bank Leumi. And what did you do for Bankleyumi? I was a financial analyst. I basically counted uh, Persian money because the shaw had just fallen and they were racing to Beverly Hills. So the job sucked. I didn't have a window and

there was no finance being done. It was just a horrible job for me. And you did that for how long? I did that for six months? And you're living in your parents house. I know, I had my own crib in Beechwood or somewhere, and that's that's a canyon up by Griffith Park. So okay, so you're frustrated with that, what's your next move? Well, my friends were throwing lots of parties, and this was the beginning of there's some very famous clubs, power Tools and Radio Radio actually being

the first one. And they were throwing parties and they were trying to encourage me to come in and work with them. They were having so much fun um, and I just felt like I shouldn't bounce around. My mother got me this job. I was just going to focus, and but I was miserable and that ran its course. I just couldn't do it anymore. So I said I joined them, but I to think of some other spend, some something that I could do to add value. I just didn't want to ride along them. So and this

was a full time business for them. I wouldn't say it's a full time business. It wasn't for it. They did parties sporadically um, but they were making a lot of money at the time. And I remember that I was driving by the Stardust Ballroom and I pulled over, where's the Stardust Ballroom. It's an iconic place. It's not there any longer, but it was on Sunset and Western. It was one of the most important venues in Los Angeles. It's actually where the beginning of the punk scene started.

So what happened was the owners were umbought its sight unseen from Korea. They're very, um fabulously wealthy, and they're trying to leave and they got sold the bill of goods. You know, Hollywood Um nightclub on Sunset Boulevard. It was a seed is the wrong side of the freeway. It wasn't the wrong side of the freeway. So I said to them, Hey, maybe I could you know, paint and and and put some shows in here. And they said there they would be thrilled. And so that's how we started.

And so the value you added to your friends was finding the venue the venue. But I also thought about because Bobby, I'm I'm basically a very curious person. So there was these posters all over Los Angeles, very big, big posters, and it was there were colorful and bright and Uncle Jam's Army. Have you ever heard of it? No?

I didn't move to l A, you know, until after this. Okay, So Uncle Jam's Army was had poster boards all over the place, but I didn't know what it was at Sports Arena and they gave me the time, So I ended up going there and lo and behold. It was, you know, at the Civic Center, jam packed um full of kids from South central l a um listening to breakbeats. There weren't even rappers at the time, and it was

exciting for me. And then I kept coming back to the parties, and then they started importing um rappers from New York um that had singles. But because it was a you know, city facility at eleven o'clock, they had to shut their party down and my party didn't get started till midnight. So I said, maybe I could hire some of the talent that they had to play a second gig in Hollywood, And that's how I started doing my thing. So what years this this was too So

how often would you have a gig at the ballroom? Um? There was There was a period of time I had a regular weekend party Friday and Saturday in a little small part of the ballroom. And then every once in a while I'd imagine a show, and you know, so much bigger ones like concerts, not part I had parties and concerts, and so the concerts who were what was

some of the talent for the concerts. So the one that that really changed my life was actually the first one and it was Social Distortion Circle, Jerks, fear fishbone Red, Hot Chili Peppers and run DMC's quite a bill. Yeah, well they're all unsigned. Um I borrowed like seven dollars from my mom. I made thirty six g s that night. How was the capacity? Um? Capacity was like, you know, it's been a long time, some thinking, three thousand people and it was really super cool bomb it was something

just uh, I still haven't come down from that moment. So, okay, you make thirty six g's in retrospect, did you know what you're doing? Or you were just lucky? Just lucky because I put on the second show with Houdini. I don't know if you know. And um, I lost all that money and then some and I had already started spending that money. So I was really not in a good shape. And you were still at Bank Loomi or you're done. No, I was done. And you still have

these partners. Your friends are just yourself. I know they're they're my partner. Okay, so how about security and all those other issues. I didn't know anything about any of that stuff. And did you have any bad experiences? And no bad experience, only love Okay, so you made the only bad experience. This was the fear that still drives me today when I sat outside the venue thinking that there was going to be a walk up like there was at the run dy m C show that never

showed up. And it's a pain that's below the heart and above the stomach. And I still can feel like right the second I could feel that pain, and um, you know, I've been running away from that pain ever since. And at this late date, why did the Houdini show not work? I think it was hubrius that I didn't ever reflect on why the first show did and I think it was um much thinner it didn't. You know, the run d m C with those Hollywood bands was

a statement. It was um a combination that was built to succeed, and then Houdini was I thought was going to draft off of that success and I didn't have really the package. Um that made sense? So, UM, you know, can I tell you? So you lost money? But did you continue to promote concerts? No? I was done. I just done promotion doing promotion. I have such a great respect for promoters because it's just really hard. It's hard on every level to do it right. It's it's really

hard on every level. But with the run DMC show, the biggest issue I had that night was running U refused to perform, and I didn't understand exactly what was going on. He went on stage and then he left and I went to talk to him and I said, what's the story. He says, I'm sure you saw it. They don't like me and they're coming to attack me. And I didn't understand exactly what he was referring to. And then I realized all these kids that were stage diving.

They come on the stage and they you know, dance around him and then fling themselves on And I said to him, listen, I know this sounds strange, but it's only a deep appreciation for what you do. And he absolutely looked at me and didn't believe me, and I kept talking and convincing him. I said, you have to you have to trust me that this is simply a an appreciation for what you do. He says, Okay, I'm

I'm going to give it a try. He went back on stage and for the rest of his set he helped fling little white boys off the stage, and it was cheer bliss for him. He had the best time, and that's the person who encouraged me to come to New York. Stay right here, we'll be back with more of my conversation with Lear Cone, head of music for YouTube and Google. Here on the Bob left Sets podcast. This is Bob left Sets. Had a great guest this week,

Leo Cone, head of music for YouTube and Google. If you ever want to see the guests as opposed to just listening, or in the case of leor both he and me and his Porsche Targa, follow and tune in on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook for photos and videos. Now more with Lee or Cohen. Okay, so you're you're out of promotion. How long before you go to New York? Immediately? Bob immediately? And does he promised you a gig? Or

you just you know? So he put me in touch with Um Russell, his brother, his brother, and Um Russell said, come to New York. And you know, Um, you know my brother, it speaks very highly of you and and let's get it on. So I sat in my parents kitchen table and I said to them, there is these people that talk instead of sing, and they want me to come to New York. And my father stroked his beard and said, son, there's an instrument called the contract.

I'm certain you have no no need for it, but it's an instrument that when things don't go so well, you don't have to commit to memory what you agree to. And my mom cut him off and said, son, contract, no contract. I think you should go, and more importantly, I think you should try to avoid work. If you could find your passion, you would be a very rich man.

And she wasn't referring to money. And since my mama's boy, I listened to my mom and I went and I've avoided work my whole life, thirty seven years in this business. And so how so what do you do you get to New York? My mom told me, please call me when you get to New York. At a friend that went to the you and transferred to Columbia University, and he invited me to sleep on his floor. He lived

in a welfare hotel close to Columbia University. And I was so enthusiastic about being in the music business that I went straight to the office and I tounded the door open, thinking that there was going to be a marching band and I was going to meet Russell because I never met Russell. There was no marching band, there was no Russell. In fact, he never told anybody in the office, and all three of them, we're in deep depression.

And the reason why they were troubled was run DMC was at JFK and they were supposed to go on their first European tour and their road manager was on Cocaine Binge and was the only one with the valid passport. And I said, well, I have a valid passport. They said, oh, can you get to JFK. So I literally, instead of calling my mom from New York, I called her from London and I said, Mom, you're just not going to

believe this. And that's how I became the road manager for run d m C. Okay, you know nothing, zero road managers and guy's got up, stay up twenty hours a day. Here's all the problems. How did you do in that gig? First of all, these are the most amazing guys on the planet. They were enthusiastic about sharing what they had to with everybody. They were responsible and

we were very ethan crew. You know, our our band was Jay's Needles and Records, and so you know, I didn't have to think about, you know, what what it meant to have a writer and technicians and everything like that. You know, we screwed the need on and had the records and and played gigs, and you know, I was I'm serious person, so I was focused and I wanted to um do a good job. And I was very fortunate and lucky. I told you my timing is pretty good.

So how long was that European tour? That European tour was about a week and a half. And then you come back to New York and then what in fact, you know who picked me up and he was driving the van, Roger Rames. You're really for those people don't know. Rod Rames was a legendary record guy. He had London Records.

We've been the in Araam, etcetera. Then went to I think the chairman of and then he ultimately was the chairman of Warner And if you see the movie twenty four Hour Party people, there's a great scene where he's trying to buy the assets of Factory Records. I never I never knew Roger was driving to Bay. I'll have to tell him that the next time. He is an amazing record man from Trinidad, from Trinidad. And remember Rundy

m C was licensed by London Records, so that's that. Okay, So you're a week and a half and you're back in New York. Yes, and you're now you're back in the office. So they have worked for you. Oh no, we were gigging all the time, so you're now a road manage I'm a road manager, but we're gigging on the weekends. So I worked in the office, um during the week doing what well. We also represented Curtis Blow Um. I don't know. We're just you know, it's a long

time ago bomb, I'm old. Okay, okay, So you're doing this. How long do you play the role of road manager? Three and a half years road manager. Never missed a gig. We never missed a gig, and once we did five gigs in the night in three different states. Never about that. Never never missed a gig. We were so mobile, unlike all the kids these days that need their whole block to join them. We were run DMC, jam Master j rest in Peace miss him every day, Runny Ray and myself.

We all carried our own luggage. There was no high posting, and we got it done and we we felt so blessed and so fortunate and lucky. Where were those five gigs? What three states were they? They're like Virginia, d c Um, Carolina Area. That are okay? So after those years you and you were the road manager only for run DMC or for Curtis Blow and these other people. Uh no, I did um for the Beastie Boys. Ended up I

ended up managing the Beastie Boys. Um. Was this during the license to Ill period or before or after that? This was before and after and and and during two and yes during too? Okay, dude, you have now that was six licensed ill was like there was a certain amount of buzz, but that was a gargantuan record, far exceeding anybody's expectations. Did you have a belief that it would be as big as it was? Not? At all? Not at all. I had no vision, zero vision. I was the in in the group of people. I was

the operator. So I think the vision Rick had and Russell had, and then their heads were cast it forwards. My head was straight down. The Beastie Boys first tour, I started them in Seattle and four hundred seaters by the time they got all the way down California and to Texas. Um they were an arena, so I switched. I had to switch the venues that that fast started four.

And then just to understand the business arrangement, this was deaf Jam at the time, and this was rush management and def Jam were you know, so when you were the manager, you were ultimately working for Russell. You're working separately, No, no, I was working for Russell. Okay, so you do that, you have the great success, and then def Jam has

a deal with Columbia correct, and then um UM. You know, there weren't too many people to put records out, so um Rick and Russell Um decided to start a record company so they could put out records that they wanted to put out. I thought the sexier side of the business was managing and so um. Ironically to a degree it is. Again it's a service business. You say that with some drove me out of the business. It's it's

a license to starve to boot for many people. So in any event, they start this record company, and your role in the record company is I was a manager. The record company was Russo and Wreck. So what point do you move to the record company. Well, remember Rick Leaves and Rick leaves and starts right, so it's like really short time. And then Russell actually moved to California to make movies, so you know, I just ended up having to do it, so you ended up being It

was scary. It was very scary, don't don't get it twisted. To be the person that was guiding a cultural brand like Deaf Chaan, especially with Rick on and then Russell in Hollywood, was scary. It was really really scary. You remember how many acts you had on the label? Um, we didn't have that many acts. Um. I started signing acts and I signed one stiff after another. I mean I couldn't. I couldn't, honestly, I couldn't sign an act

that would sell. And I was fortunately it was like a little side in print that I was signing this too. Um it was r L Russia associated label until Rick and Russell unwound their their situation. But man, it was so scary. I honestly could not sign worse acts. It was. It was really, um, a very difficult time in my life.

And then when does Russell come back and get involved? Well, Russell comes back a few years later, but at that moment I caught my breath, and I really had a much tighter aperture of what was needed um to be successful and to write the ship and to get started again. And the you know, my vision was blurry and and with the Beasties leaving Rick, leaving Russell, there's a lot

of um and I just needed a tighter aperture. And thank god that Red Man came in the door and we signed him and time for some action happened, and it was the re birth of Deaf Jam recordings. And the interesting news is that we also had Public Enemy and Slick Rick in that transitional period. So while I was signing stiffs and you know, cold his ice, um, they still kept um the shine of the label very important and help me find my breath and and gave

me cover. And at the time, are you making any money? No? No, I had roommates that I was thirty three years old, okay, and so how does I was the mayor of Alphabet City. The first bit of money that we made was one numbers okay, do you remember? I remember so so um. By then I also had a huge stable of artists. I was E. P. M. D s Manager, Eric b and Rock Kim's manager, Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince's manager. Um it goes on and on, Steta Sonic, Big Daddy Cane,

you know, really goes. There's no there was nothing moving like I made the cold chilling deal. There's nothing moving in wrap that I wasn't wasn't a part of at that time. But still it wasn't enough money for me to move out. It was still nascent business. And then one came along and uh, Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince started printing money, like we'll explain what the deal? What is the person who's called is charged? So what was the offer? The offers? You could speak to the

act and they would leave messages. And there was months that Jazz Jeff and the Fresh Prince we were making north of four d thousand dollars a month. Wow. So it was the key to constantly change the message or to keep people on the line. Constantly change the message, get people to call every day, and what might the message be, I'm old bomb. Okay, we'll have to go back into the archives. So that's how you make some real money. You get to move out De Jam's at Colombia.

It ends up being purchased by PolyGram tell us that story. You have to understand that there was a beautiful incubation period for us at def Jam. What I mean by that is there was much more demand, didn't supply. The major labels actually didn't get into signing wrap backs because the bosses of those labels made their success through rock and roll, and their kids were too young, and so as far as rap was concerned, it was just noisy music um or noise, and they didn't want to invent.

They thought it was a fad. They wanted no part of it, and we started, you know, building a real business. What I mean by incubation is we had no cloud we had no money, we had no experience, and Russell and I like getting high, and just any one of those was enough not to be able to build a business. But because the majors were so arrogant, all they had to do was drive fifty blocks and they would have seen that the demand was blowing the roof off of

all the clubs uptown. So, you know, seven years goes by and now we get a little bit of money, we get a little experience, some clouds. Getting high is not that important anymore, and their kids are now starting to grow up and Donnie Einer's kid actually preferred going to a public enemy show than the Bruce Springsteen show. And that's when Donnie said, oh my god, I'm out of position. And so I had a very fragile group.

They were called third Base. You ever heard of them, of course, Okay, So they didn't really like each other that much, and they were very, very fragile. UM Search is a very inquisitive person and very tasty person and Donnie can vinced them to start a production company. And that's put too much tension on the group. And that was behind my back. That's my partner and at Columbia Columbia Records, and so that's how NAS got signed to

Columbia Records through MC search. Oh yeah yeah, so um that put a lot of search and it was Pete and Pete writes about baseball or something these days, and it put a lot of tension on the band, put a lot of tension on me. And you know, because of our deal structure, we were deeply in the red and to the tune of nineteen million dollars, but it was used to it was at a joint venture or you still own your assets or you know, no No, we didn't own our assets. They actually owned the assets. Um.

We had a UM some action. UM, it's embarrassing to tell you what that action is. It's it's less than what bands are getting signed for today. But were they made you were nineteen million of the red Have they made money on the deal? Oh, of course they made money. But UM, they wanted to go full tilt boogie in wrap and they thought they can do it themselves. And they thought that the only barrier was their focus and money. And they're both focused and they're going to invest. And UM.

They gave me the option to um by the red balance back and then get out of the building. And it wasn't really an option. They were they were flinging us out of the building. And it was scary because I didn't let anybody at at the company know because there would have been hugely distracting and difficult for people.

So I remember every going trying to find record companies to partner with, and um the only one was Alan Levy and PolyGram and actually he gave us six million for that piece, and UM, so we gave them nineteen And it was the first little bit of capital that Russell and I got and um we actually was again very good timing. I actually shipped Regulate at Columbia and they weren't paying attention and that went on to sell

four million albums. So my first def Jam PolyGram experience was warranty Regulated sold four million albums, very very thrilled and a lone Leavi was thrilled and excited, and we had a very interesting deal with him, very very good deal, very forward looking deal because he believed that rap catalog was going to be a huge, huge opportunity nitty, especially

in the multiple of of the CD business. So um, it was really great timing for us and it was beautiful and at that time def GM is operating in what part of PolyGram Island Island and then they ultimately roll it up into I D j um No it was p L g Um with Rick Dabas and Johnny Barbs, um Um Peter cup Key and then it was really a difficult time because Alan Levy wanted to buy the business and Russell wanted to sell and offered fifty million dollars and I said I'm not interested in that, and

I had a block on it, and Russell was very upset and he was our lawyer was making him very scared debt because of me blocking UM. He wasn't going to end up with any money. And it was a very stressful period for the two of us. And I just believed that we could um improved the multiple. And I remember that Russell was pounding me so hard. And it was actually Danny Goldberg that went around my back to my my company and told him that I'm selling

the company. This is what he's running Mercury when he was running Mercury, but he was very close to a lone Livy and I fell into depression and I UM at the time, my wife said, your health is much more important than you know this type of stuff. Just sell the company. And I agreed to sell it. And then four days later the board rejected UM that fifty

million dollar deal. And UM they rejected because two days earlier they met secretly, this guy from Philip s met secretly with Edgar Broffman and because of that they didn't want any transactions to happen. So again great timing, and they were talking about buying the Universe Emerging with Universal assets and no they're no Universal was was buying PolyGram. Now remember the reason why Phillips was selling PolyGram as

they invented the CD. So they're the reasons why they gave the green light to Alan Levy because they discovered that the CD was a powerful opportunity, but it was also the perfect master, so they rode the upside. They allowed him to buy Island UM and UM motown. I mean hundreds and hundreds of UM hundreds of millions of dollars, you know, massive. No one's ever seen prices like that because they knew the conversion from tape to CD was going to be a windfall. But they also knew that

it was the perfect master. So they allowed Allan to build this over a decade and then sold it from underneath him. You were do you believe they were totally conscious that the Internet was coming and they had a

perfect They made a fortune. They sold to Edgar for you know, coasted twelve billion dollars And the only problem is that Edgar Universal bought PolyGram, but the largest market share in North America was a little company called Death Chamber Recordings, and that deal didn't go through, and so Doug had bought Doug Morris. Doug Morris had bought this UM was brought along UM by Edgar and we had just dropped UM Job Rule, DMX and jay z All in the month of December. Everybody told me, you can

never release a record in December. Thecember is off limits because the retailers are too focused on stocking. It's taboo to do that. And I felt like UM parents started becoming less and less under UM a knowledgeable of what to give as a gift of music to their children, so they gave them cash. And the closure I got to Christmas, UM, the better I was going to fare. So you literally delayed the release knowing that the kids

would blow the cash. And it was all during the transition and the due diligence of PolyGram and the Universal merger. So remember Island, Mercury, A and M. All of those executives were frozen because they didn't know what was happening. Everybody was frozen. But I was driving my multiple and so all of PolyGram was frozen. Who's going to be the boss? Who's going to survive all that swirl is happening?

And I dropped three very important and influential albums that I'm proud of UM in the month of December at that moment, and it was UM a stunning moment. Okay, so the deal goes through it where does that leave Jeff Jam? Um? That leaves def Jam in the catbird seat? And unfortunately, UM, we have a natural clock on our deal and there was time for for UM the deal

to two. I tried to fight it even then. Thank god I didn't fight it because the UM the month that we sold was the first month of the decline for the last eighteen years. Okay, so what was that price? I'm sure it's public a big number. It was three million dollars for the total and Russia and I owned UM, so that's a good paycheck. It was fabulous. It was

just it was amazing. It was amazing. Listen, UM, you know it's that type of that type of money has no context to me because I don't live like that. So UM, So where is the money today? Um? The money is with my ex wife, UM, Um with me. It's I mean, it's invested. Yeah, it's an investors certainly. How much is real assets? How much the stock market? For most stock I would say, UM, real assets are UM and is UM more in the equities? And then is is more UM liquid and stuff like that? And

how active are you in managing that money? I'm not very active. I suck at I suck at that. You hired people, yes, and you're smart, smarter people than myself. So how do you end that's by away. That's the secret of my success is surround yourself with super dough people, give them a lot of sunlight and water and just hug it out. So how do you end up running?

I d J Well? I had the most insane month. Um, you know, I sold the company for a big number and part of that um, when you sell a company, you're obliged to work for them, um, and I was obliged to work for them. So they asked me to look over Mercury Island and left cham and I remember, you know, on a white board playing around with the names,

and I didn't know who. I couldn't trace the steps back to someone with Mercury, so I couldn't find the heartbeat there and I was but I was able to find Chris Blackwell and the heartbeat there that's island records. So I decided to call it island def jam, and I, um, def jam island doesn't sound as good as Island def jam, and the I d J sounds really dope. Okay, And to what because black Well ultimately leaves. But when you start how involved is Blackwell? Blackwell has already left the building.

So now you're many many many years okay, you're you're running at lock Stock and Barrel Well. I told you I surround myself with super dope people. Okay. So in your tenure at I d J, sir, what what did you learn? I learned that the entrepreneurialism of rap music and the co mingling of of artists and the UM determination to mind audiences and connect them with the artists is very, very powerful. And just that, you know, I

felt like I could do anything. And that runs its course, and you ultimately end up at Warner, but even in a bigger position, bigger title, And what do you learn in your tenure at White at Warner? My tenure at Warner is that it was the first time I've ever come across or had an experience with private equity people. So I had no context that they bought and sold, and I hadn't simply no context that they bought and

had a four year horizon. So had I known that, I probably wouldn't have left UM to take the job to take the job because it was too distracting. I don't want I didn't like change in that type of way. I like change in other types of way, but not in that type of way. You mean in terms of the ultimate sale point, Yeah, I don't. I don't like I don't like change, financial change. I like structural change. I like change, but not um um financial change. People.

So when you're at Warner, to what degree in the back of your mind are you here? Are you feeling that pressure? Hey, I gotta make the numbers. We're gonna do, We're gonna sell I I um. I didn't pay attention to that. I was focused in other things. And the only time where it crested against me was when they decided to sell it, and I had to meet with the thirty odd bidders over and over and over and over again, and I got further and further away from the music and further away from the artist, and I

felt like we were doing a stunning job. I mean two, you know it, Lectura and Atlantic were in really tough positions. Warner was living on its past, and so I felt merging um a lecture in Atlantic. Together we found our heartbeat and and then I was working on on the Warner Brothers situation, and you know, we we I think really started the three sixty business. That was a very important part of my strategy and I was very proud

of it. So and you know, and then to get sit swiped into having to talk to financial people about you know, a transaction was a buzz kill. It was very difficult for me. We'll return to this conversation with Lear Cone, head of music for YouTube and Google. Right after this. This is Bob left Sett. Do you like hearing from the heavies. I love talking to them. And that's exactly what I'll be doing at my Music Media

Summit in Santa Barbara at the end of April. Take your Wallflower roll to the next level by actually meeting the players, maneuvering, manipulating the chessboard. Go to Music Media Summit dot comfert tickets and more information and now more with Lee your Cone. So it ends and you start three hundred, Yes, and you have a big hit with

Feddiwab Yes. So what you learn at three hundred? I learned at three hundred that the barrier of entry I had a hunch at Warner between subscription and advertising that there is going to be a huge sea change. The ability to build audience and to identify an audience UM without having to go through the expense of a physical product was a liberation for UM young people to start

lay bules and to start getting into the game. And I had a hunch that they couldn't keep me out of the party, and so I cobbled together a little bit of money and I went to work, and lo and behold, I realized that the true remaining barrier entry is simply a little bit of capital, not a lot of it. And you could actually make a lot of hay. So if someone were to start today, how much capital

do they need? It's all different. It all depends. I started with fifteen million, a little little sum of money. I heard that l a just raise sent you know, it was a different thing, I believe you know, we have a three hundred over thirty employees now, UM, but you're you're not involved with three hundred anymore. But I'm the largest shareholder, so you're still a shareholder. Yes, okay, So you have the success with fiftie rop. Can you tell us any more about that? What do you want

to know? How do you find that HiT's HiT's beautiful he was, so did you find him? The record was already done. The record was already done. Um. He is a very interesting melodic rapper, UM and it was just his time and we signed him. So that's a music business bomb. Okay, So you know today where there's so much noise in the channel. Although the success of his records a couple of years back, what made he What did you do to make the record successful? He certainly

had to hit record Without that you're dead in the water. Well, we engaged an audience. We UM went to our friends at Spotify, they supported us. When to our friends at Apple they supported us. What did that support look like to support whether it's UM real Estate and app or real Estate and Playlists, or or video UM at YouTube, UM the dsp s or the these platforms. UM were happy to see us, and they were happy to support an independent label and independent artist. And we also, you know,

got the record on the radio. And so what can I tell you? It's not really it's not magical. It's a lot of hard work, it's a lot of talking to people, it's a lot of saying, like what you do every once in a while you go out on the limb and say this artist is really incredible, and you put your reputation on the line and you shoot the flare up and people, um pay attention, give it a shot, and when they give it a shot, it starts working. And and that's how well I guess one

of the I agree with everything you're saying. But one of the fascinating things is there was a record two Christmases ago. The end of it was a hit everywhere in the world. Rag and Bone Man Human never made it in America, and I have to, I mean, my fault with the label let the record down. Do you have any ideas why I don't want to um um a Pine on something I'm not an expert at so I don't know whether he was focused on Australia at the time when they needed him to show up in places.

You know, Um, when you have a worldwide hit. The interesting thing is you can't clone yourself and you need physical support of a record. So um, I couldn't. I couldn't the Pine on it. I I don't know. You know, Colombia is a really good label. Okay, So let's go back to three. Three D is still active at this point, very active Okay, how do you end up at YouTube?

I ended up at YouTube because um Robert Kinson called me up and asked me if I could He's he's the big boss YouTube, and he asked if I could surface him some candidates to be the head of music and that it was time for that category to have someone that woke up every day specifically focused on building that business. And I surfaced him a couple of people over the you know, four months spanning. Then he calls me out of the blue and says, you know, he

used this expression, you're my You're my Dick. I had no idea what he meant. He's I said what he says, Dick Cheney, and I still didn't don't to this day, I don't really know what he's referring to, but the he says, I love the candidates, but I prefer you doing the job. And I told him I have zero interest in the job, and I was having too much fun at three hundred. I think three hundred's going to be worth you know, half a billion dollars in five years.

I really believe that this is the era. Just mark my words, this is going to be the biggest gold rush ever in media and it's going to be around recorded music. It can never be activated until the Impressario rooms again. And that's the critical gating factor. All everything is ready for them, and then Impressario is the unemployable.

The Chris Blackwells of this generation, deomrtiganst those that um, you know, have a very specific point of view who know how to um engage with talent and they could build huge businesses. Once again, I think the environment is right for that. But going back to YouTube, I really, you know, I was having hits and I had no interest in doing the job. It's like, um, it wasn't the right time, and they kept being persistent and kept

asking me. And then it was my partner Kevin Laws who said to me, you know, you always talk about your biggest fear about the music business is the high concentration of distribution. So if you actually were worked with Google and YouTube and help them work with the labels and help build another distribution channel that's healthy and another player, um, you will bring diversity to distribution and you could be a great gift back to an industry that you really

love and that really resonated to me. So um, this is my gift back to the industry. If I could get Google and YouTube to help bring diversity to distribution, I think with four the contributors, the value of the business will creep back to the labels and to the artists. If it's only two, we're in really bad shape. It would be a very bad day for creation. So okay, so what is the vision for you to now that you have this job. The vision is to work very

closely with the labels. So prior to me getting there, they were mostly in negotiating entity. They negotiated with the corporate centers and they would go away and come back and negotiate three years later. And there is no infrastructure of people facing off with the labels. The people that actually signed the acts, marketing and delivered the acts. They

were only facing off with the corporate people. And you know, in the last twenty years, what do you do get rid of a corporate person or any in our person and our person corporate person, sorry, corporate. The corporate entities of all these companies shrunk massively. Um. The the true power is with the labels. Okay, everybody knows that that, um Um. The labels are the ones with the power. But not only the power, they're they're the ones that

are in the trenches. And so what's happened in the past is you know when YouTube or Google were went to negotiate, you know, it was their Super Bowl to Oh, they're going to negotiate against the Google team, and I'm not really that interested in that. I actually want to go back to back with the companies, with the labels. So we built an infrastructure UM to understand what the

labels priorities are and to help break acts. And to me, that's one of the most important things that we could do at YouTube and Google is to understand what's important to the labels and and to the artist and to the management community, and to help UM break some acts. That's one thing. The second thing is to convert our funnel. So really the YouTube Google people have been very raw.

They don't understand why they're so vilified, and they felt like they built this incredible ecosystem on a global scale UM to have people engaged with media and pay with their eyeballs, and instead of getting a pad in the back, they got vilified because that was in their UM the industry's mind, siphoning opportunity from subscription, which was still nascent UM. But growing. And so one of the things that I told um them and it didn't take a lot of convincing.

They were already believing that so um, that their funnel can convert into subscription. There are people in that funnel that have a job that are leaned into music that should pay a subscription um um. And and that's what will happen. So between promotion and helping the labels and the artist community um break artists, and then converting our funnels. So it's simply not just advertising that it's also so

your goal is to make it a subscription business. No, No, my goal is to add a subscription business on top of an advertising business, um bob. This industries growth is going to come from both advertising and subscription. I know everybody's drunk on subscription and it's really a nice thing and it's great, but when you talk about the world, they're gonna be way more many more people paying with their eyeballs than paying is a monthly subscription. Okay, that's

going to be fact um. And so we want to play in both. Um. Okay. Since you brought up industry criticism, what do you say to the industry that says the split is not good enough on YouTube. The split is great, the pie will grow. It's just it's the same argument with spot that they had with Spotify at the beginning. Everybody was screaming about Spotify. Wasn't the split as you could see um from their public filing that the split is actually enormous. It was the size of the pie.

And so um, you know, we're talking about hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars that is still stuck in traditional media. That will flow to the digital um players, and that and that money will create to the labels and as the as more and more countries come online, um, that probably will be getting bigger. The growth in advertising

is out of control, Bob, out of control. Okay, so before they blink, I know everybody's all geeked over subscription, but don't forget how much money is going to be made in advertising. So when you say the money stuck in traditional media, can you amplify that a little bit like television and radio. So you're talking about advertising advertising money. The Levy broke in America, but in other countries it's still they're still stuck in traditional media, but it's starting

to break there too. I mean, everybody has kids. They see how they they digest media. They don't digest media on an appointment, you know, on um you know, a regular way. It's on demand. So the other complaint that people have in the industry is about takedown notices, that they can't issue one takedown notice, but they're constantly playing

whack a mole with videos on YouTube. Bob, I invite all of those people on my dime to go to Zurich to our campus um that is dedicated to content i D. Bob, when I tell you they've built a world class content i D system that is um um um failed proof that's the case. Please, who's ever listening, you yourself, come to Zurich and please meet all the engineers that have built a first class content I D system.

So you think at this point in time, if I issue one takedown notice, that should take down all the pirate copies of the song. It's correct, Okay, it's correct. So you think it's the purpose the people who are saying, oh I have to constantly issue takedown notices. You don't think that's true. No, No, at least it's not as true as it used to be. So you don't believe the law needs to be changed that this is a

business solution. Oh, absolutely, this is a business solution. Okay, let's go back to how you're going to help the labels. What have you done and what can you do to help a label promote a record? So, Bob, did you know that eight of all of watch time on YouTube is internal recommendation? Engine? I did not know that. Shocking, isn't that? When I first started, I thought it was absolutely the reverse was searched, and then maybe some other remnant was um promoted. But no, of all of watch time,

billions of hours of watch time is internal recommendation. You get lost in YouTube. I wouldn't say I get lost. I'm on YouTube constantly, but but you don't. You don't go, you don't um um dial something up. And then all of a sudden, the next thing they first of all, I'm sophisticate enough to know I switched off auto play, and I got much more email and recommendations of people. So I'm on YouTube many times a day. I'm not

the average person. Well, if you were the average person, you would realize that it would start to get to know you and start servicing serving you um entertainment that you're most likely going to appreciate. I certainly get some of that on the right hand side. So yeah, so I'm so if I could surface to the um UM the priorities of the labels as an input to the algorithm, UM, I could probably do a really good service. Is that

active today? That's sacred? Okay, So you you go to a label, they have a priority, you believe the priority is valid, and you will get into the YouTube system to make sure it's put in front of X number of eyeballs. That's sacred. Now it's in other streaming services. They look at issues of save, they look at how how long. All of that is important. And so you

look at all that data. All of that is important. Yes, all of that well, okay, so the biggest YouTube hit of the last year, one of the biggest is the Desposito. Was that purely organic? Or did YouTube help know you? You want to hear something really interesting? I try to reverse engineer that. And the beginning of that party was that the manager bought a hundred thousand dollars worth of true view ads. Explain to my audience what those are. A true view add is a new format of advertising there.

You know, Google is constantly iterating um at around advertising, and the um UM that actually got the right eyeballs engaged, and the right eyeballs started um affecting the algorithm, and then it spread like wildfire. Okay, a little slower. He bought the ads, and the ads translated into view and then obviously the ads were highly targeted, and once he got people engaged, it started building a wildfire. And that's what happened. Okay, So if someone had a do you

think that's replicable at this point in time? UM? I don't you know. Desposito was a fabulous um record and video record and video, But I do believe that the digital world allows you to be way more targeted in your audience. UM. We are learning a lot. Like, for example, we are now thinking about related artists and how we could help the labels surface their content UM by them choosing what the related artists would be, that audience would be and putting that that content after those artists. Is

that a personal choice or algorithmic? Um, it's both. It's both now, it's inputs. If we go back a couple of years, it was not uncommon for a hit track on YouTube to have many more views than streams on Spotify frequently, that's the reverse. Now, Okay, so what is the future of video? I a YouTube clip and how importan and there's that breaking an act. I think, um, context is I think we're in an audio visual world. Actually, Chuck d is the one who says this perfectly. Uh

who I encourage you. He's got an incredible story. He would be a great person to do a podcast with. But we used to be in an audio only world, and I think we're in an audio visual world. So I think video brings context, and I think we're searching for context. You know, the Levy broke, right there used to be very tightly curated ways that you were touched by music, and now, um, the Levy broke, and now there's many, many, many many bands. So now we need

a certain amount of curation and some more context. I couldn't agree more. It's a charity of choice. And yeah, and I think that the you know, three point four point oh version of the Internet, we would start seeing more curation and video is important to help provide context as well. Okay, now we live in an era where tracks are less dominant in the culture than they ever were before. It's really spread out. You know, you go

back to when we grew up. The hit track literally everybody in society now where if we talk about the number one track, a fewer people know that. But I'm leading up to something different. Why is hip hop the most dominant sound today? You know, I've been watching you raised the banner of hip hop. I don't think it was always you weren't a flag bearer of of hip hop. I've always thought that hip hop was big for the last you know, but it's fantic twenty years. It was

gigantic then too. I mean, I mean, you know, I don't actually know. I guess maybe I live in my own little bubble. I I remember Eminem selling ten million plus albums. I mean that was and Chop Liver. I've been feeling hip hop's dominance for a long time. It's scary too, because you know, it's now multigenerational it's used to be. I was always worried about the multi generational aspect. Does my son really want to share his records with me? Where is the battle cry? That isn't the debate between

father and son about that is not music. That's just a bunch of crap. We're bumping the same music right now. My son's twenty three. Okay, what does he do? He's in an R three. He's a really remarkable music person. Okay, But getting back to this hip hop thing. I don't

want to say that hip hop wasn't big. But if you go on Spotify, which I believe is the most accurate chart today because of consumption, out of the Spotify Top fifty in the United States, thirty five or forty tracks or hip hop tracks, I don't really pay attention to things like that bomb. I mean, if you look,

I don't. Honestly, I don't pay attention to it. I remember when I was invited to the first World Congress of PolyGram or something like that, and I was flying from London to Seville and I was next to the head lawyer of PolyGram and he said, so, where is hip hop going? I said, I don't know. He says, what, what do we pay you millions millions of dollars for? And I said, I hope you don't pay me millions of dollars. I've never weather veined music. I never made

any declarations you that's for you to do. I hope that I've created an environment that some kid aspires to be on my label, that will be the person that will ultimately change your direction as safe place for an artist to change the world. And so when you talk about hip hop dominance and that you're just making, you're just it's you're calling its end right now, you're you know, and after something is big, something gets small. I don't know. I just I don't pay attention to talk about some

of these issues. I believe rock is dead. Now, you're not predicting the future. You want to weigh in on that until it isn't, Bob, until it isn't about jazz? Is jazz dead? No? Hell no, are you kidding me? Jazz is dead. No people say jazz is dead, Bob, Bob. Only only people that are trying to weather vane and put numbers two things, um that need to declare something like I said, that's your gig. I don't think I've never been a part of that. I go to jazz

clubs right now. Okay, So how much do you play music? Now? Me play music a lot, and you play old stuff, new stuff, all stuff new stuff. And if you you know, the old Desert Island question had to take two or three records or albums to the Desert Island. What were the You have to be a Zeppelin record for you have to why I thought it would be a hip hop record? I just honest, Well, you said I get two or three? Man, of course Zeppelin, which was on Atlantic.

Where do you have a specific Zeppelin record you want to weigh in on too? Okay, led Zeppelin too, Yeah, Okay, Living Loving, Thank you a whole lot of Okay, two more records. I would say, they have to be a public enemy record for me. Okay, can Chuck? Do you have another hit? For sure? For sure? But the definition of a hit is something that I've always had trouble with.

What is a hit? It allows you to go on tour and engage ring the bell and engage your audience, and it allows you to have enough um fanfare for people to go and put their hard earned money to see you live and to bring a community together. I don't know what the definition of a hit is these days. Well, I would say there's two types of hit. What is a hit The track is fantastic, whether it's spreads or not. Then there's the commercial hit where it has some level

of ubiquity. Yeah, So that's what I what I mean you meant you meant the ladder, yes, and the other the ladder most likely not because Chuck has never woke He never woke up trying to do that. You have to wake up sometimes trying to do that right to get ubiquity. Um, Chuck never woke up. Do you How big a factor you believe agism is in hip hop? Of course ages has something to do with it, but it's more about a little bit of a secret. The

moment from obscurity to celebrity has the highest velocity. That's where the most hey can get made. At a certain moment, after a certain period of time, there's a certain expectation. You don't get any dap from your friends, turning them onto another jay Z Right. So the velocity is much big earlier on a career, which has nothing to do with age. It's the little secret that becomes a much

bigger secret. Period of time of velocity I think is And since we're playing this game, what's the third album? I'm gonna have to get back to you, Bob. That's fine with me. It's a very dear album. Okay, So at this point in time, what about you, Bump, Well, I always say if I was in a desert island, I would bring and this is kind of a humorous thing. I would say a C d C Back in Black and Joni Mitchell Blue and one is a very noisy record, and one is a very quiet record, illustrating that my

taste are somewhat broad. Now it's funny because taste were broad, then they narrowed, and then in the Internet era they broadened again. Beautiful, okay, which I think is great. I mean especially I think one of the most fascinating things is the amount of hip hop there is in country music. Even people brought up in you know, rural areas, are are you know, as opposed to urban areas. Well. Luke Lewis and I started a company called Lost high Way.

I don't know if you're fantastic. So the reason why we founded that record um company was that we believed that the society of country was so rigid. But these kids, even though they respected the great songwriting and culture of country, they also loved Chris Cobain and Public Enemy, and we were interested in those artists. We didn't get all the way to our mission, but we had, you know, Ryan Adams and Lucinda and Brother where Art Dow and stuff like that. But we were going to get to the

hip hop country flavored was Jamie Johnson on the Lost Hollyby. Okay, So in the time you have left on the planet, what would you like to achieve? Oh? Wow, that's a beautiful question. UM. I would love to continue, you know, parenting and being a great father to my children and great husband to my wife. Um uh, contributor to my community. UM. I feel in the middle of my mission of bring diversity to distribution, and and helping the labels and and

and Google and YouTube collaborate and work together. UM signed some more dope bass acts that changed the world, and and UM i'd like to keep contributing UM in a very positive way. I don't know. I think we've really covered it here. We've got your history to your president. Is there anything that we didn't discuss that you feel a need to go to a shipload of things we didn't discuss, But UM, I appreciate your time. You know,

this has been wonderful. You've been very open. I certainly learned things about you that I don't know, and I think we've humanized you for people who just know you. There's maybe a art board, they make fun of you and Hits magazine. You're working at YouTube. This has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you. You're so welcome. You know, I wake up every morning and I know who I am. You know, and the people who actually know me know

who I am. And I never really concentrated or really cared too much about what other people thought about me, especially those that don't know who I am so well. I know from previous discussions when there have been people shooting arrows at you, you you managed to compartmentalize that, not let that bother you. It's always stuck with me because so many people are saying, oh, saying but not you. Yeah,

you stayed with the mission. No I want to You know, I remember when I was in elementary school and because of my funky name and my accent. Where does the accent come from? It's a it's a guttural m Hebrew accent mixed with speech therapy. They try to get rid of my art. You know, I literally walked around this earth without an are four year and a half Webbitt won in elementary school. They thought that some you know, well funded during the Reagan era or something like that.

Um every Wednesday, they came in and got me for speech therapy, and they thought they could fix my Hebrew are I kept telling them it's a Hebrew accent. Um. You know, it's not only lived in Israel for three years. But if you if you understand Hebrew, it's a gut or r and that's the hardest thing to change. So anyhow, I remember um wanting to play baseball after school, and because of my name and because of my accent, they always picked me last. And I never got mad, but

I chased down every fucking ball. Um that I just like converting people based on my work, not by you know, all that stuff. So one of the many lessons you've gotten from New York calling today. Once again, thanks for being on the Bob left Sets podcast. Good luck, Bob, thank you. That wraps up this week's episode of the Bob left Sets podcast, recorded at the tune In studios here in Venice, California. I hope you like listening to this conversation with le Or. I thought it was phenomenal.

I'd love to get your feedback and know if the same is true for you. Email me at Bob at left sets dot com. Until next time, I'm Bob left sets,