Linda Perry

rock stars in the room. Defined from my audience what a rock star is for me personally, everybody has their own version of a rock star, but for me, Patti Smith was a rock star, Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, Bowie kiss Um, Chrissie Hines, Janice Joplin. To me, a rock star is somebody who you just know they're something. They walk a different beat, there's something different about the way they talk. Um Jesus was a rock star, you know,

and Um. But you get, you know, attracted to this person and want to know more about them because on stage or off stage, they're kind of the same. They have you know, I know, like for Freddie Mercury, when he's on stage, he's more flamboyant and more you know, big personality, right, and from what I've heard that when he's not on stage, he's still he has a smaller personality.

But no matter what, he's a star. So I feel like we have a lot of celebrities, we have a lot of kids that are influencers, but as far as rock stars, I'm I find it very hard and very rare to find. Okay, So why do you think there are a fewer rock stars today than there were before? Because the generation sans Um after the nineties was the last rock star. In fact, what's funny about the nineties is it was about the biggest rock stars, but it was an anti rock star. Well we're talking about Kurt

Cobain after here here be in music Settle exactly. But those Kurt Cobain was a full on rocks you know, Cornell, full on Pearl Jam everybody. And we had Um, Courtney Love, you know, so many incredible bands and they were full on rock stars even though they anti rock stars. Well I just remember this that story. Nirvana was in South America and uh they were there, Courtney Love was there and Courtney says, listen, we're gonna take the limo. No it's not punk, No, one's gonna say says, no, I

can't take the limo. You know, but I think that what happened there is it introduced unfortunately. Um, hey, hey, Bob, Steven Larry, you can get on stage and being a band now because you can wear your board shorts. Uh. You know, you could basically wake up in the morning and go on stage and that's the way you can look. And you don't have to be a flashy dresser. You don't have to have pizzas, you know, you don't have

to have any of that. Because Nirvana and the grun scene basically said the you know, Joe Schmo is okay to be on the stage because that's what they are promoting, like the anti rock star. And but what's funny about those those guys were the most rock star guys because they had so much you know, there's a lot of attitude. There was like this fixation to not be rock stars, which made them rock stars. Okay, how do you compare

that to the punk era of the late seventies. Well, the you know, as far as my I mean, let's see and this late seventies and I mean I'm eleven, twelve years old, and then everybody picks up. You know, that was sort of a different thing because Seattle, these were accomplished musicians. Yeah, I don't, I don't. There's you can whatever you want with this conversation and this one statement, there's nothing punk about the Seattle scene, So I don't

know where that. Okay, it was a similar thing there, but we won't go no, no, no no. It was not a similar thing musically at all, and vibe wise, it was not punk rock. I remember punk. I was a punk rocker. I was ten when, you know, I listened to the Ramones, but I grew up, you know with that whole scene. I mean I was at the mosh pits. I broke my ankles maching, you know, with no shoes on. I mean I had razor blades and I cut my arm. I mean, not full on. But

what I'm just trying to say. The music compared to that completely different, as you know. But the attitude to me was very different because punk rock didn't give a shit about anything, and it seemed like the whole grunge scene they did give a ship about being seen as rock stars and this other whole thing. They wanted to really perceive that we are not rock stars. We are normal, but they're but they're not. They weren't at all, you know,

at least punk rockers. They were down in the dungeons, playing, you know, in these crappy fucking venues with a bunch of spit all over them, sweaty kids and jamming out. I mean, they didn't fucking care at all, you know. So it's to me that's not the same thing. Okay. Uh would we say being a rock star is the same as being charismatic? Absolutely? Um, I think there's a lot of charisma obviously and rock stars. That's part of the problem is I feel like we are not dealing

with that hype of swagger. You know, it's sexy, It's sexy in a whole other way. It's like, you know, Jamie Chaplin was sexy, but there was nothing sexy about her, you know. And um, you know Patti Smith, Stevie Nicks, like Blondie. I mean, they were so cool and like there's a whole other sexiness going on because they're powerful women, or at least portraying them. And what I'm having an issue with is a lot of um, you know, Beyonce is a rock star, of course, Pink is you know,

there's there's rock stars. I'm not sure I would. Well, she's a different type of rock star. She's like, you know, she's got Pink's very very thoughtful about what she's doing in her life. I guess, you know, I guess for me. And this is a small item, the way she does the acrobatic act at every show to the point where it's a feature of the show. If you go back to you know, Alice Cooper, every show was different, Yeah,

but it was. But everybody does that. I mean that the the whole thing is Again, that would be a perfect example of when you're great, you can I mean I toured with Neil Young for two months and every single show was incredibly different. And he had booker team, the mg S at the time, and I was sitting there at that you know, at the stage just every show watching him. I was just like, oh my god,

Neil Young, right, and every solo was different. And then and then they would just watch him and then you could tell he's, oh, he's gonna he's not gonna do the normal and then he had flipped and they would be right there with him. And for me, what that was, it's like great, incredibly gifted, you know, sense sensitive musicians that are paying attention to the artist and the singer and the song and they know by just a feeling

an instinct what's going to happen. And the fact that Neil Young felt compelled to drive himself every single night to be a better you know, make a better solo or you know what, I'm gonna take the solo on piano instead. I mean, it was so incredible watching him. We are not dealing with that level of artist anymore. Let's go drill down right there though. Um Bob Dylan is very much a rock star, but he's on tour now, it has been for essentially thirty years rearranging the songs.

How do you feel about that? Well, I feel if you're going to rearrange the songs to bring more honesty back into your voice and into the song, because after what, you know, thirty years, singing the same song can get quite you know, So if you have to do that and to put more life back in to reignite the flame of how you sung that song and the energy,

I'm all for it. But if you're doing it to be relevant or follow anything that's going on in today's time, I'm very disappointed in that he's definitely doing making interesting for himself, which I applaud, But to what degree do you owe a debt to your audience? Well, and what do degree does the audience owe the person that they're idolizing, you know, the space to create? Well, I guess the fascinating story and this goes back to when you were very young. Neil Young had a huge hit with Heart

of Gold. Okay, after that was a hit in the spring of seventy two, he went on on arena tour. The ultimate album was called Time Fades Away, but he stood up with an electric band and didn't play any of the sawt stuff from Harvest. Uh. Now, it's very interesting. He has a long history of going his own way. He can really still sell tickets. Were Crosby, Seals and Nash who are disparate at this particular point in time.

They can't sell anywhere near that number of tickets, right, And I think that's because people see Neil Young as a real rock star doing whatever he wants. But you know, especially with a lot of older people touring, would they have some level of expectation if they're paying they want Okay, well,

you didn't tell me about that part. If it's like you know, legacy artists going back on on tour, I say, don't try to play as a bunch of new songs that aren't even equivalent to the level of the older songs that people know, because it's not like, honestly, honestly, it's not like anybody's gonna go, oh yeah, I'm gonna go buy that new Crosby Steals and Nash album. You know, it's not gonna happen. They're gonna want the older songs. And unfortunately, that to me is where yes, it would

probably very you know, upsetting to those artists. Like if I had to go if I were an artist still and I had to go out and perform for an oblongs you know, songs till I was seventy eight years old and nobody wanted to hear anything new, I had to say, I'd be bummed out. But the truth is, if no one wants to hear anything knew that you have, you know, have to say, that means you haven't had anything to say in quite a while. And the only songs that stood out are the ones that you pushed yourself,

you know, to make money. To go on a tour and do all these things. But what happens is that you can never get rid of the artist. Bob, We're always going to be an artist, and so Crosby Seals and ash just you know, it's still gonna want to go. Hey, guys, come on, let's do it. Let's write a great song.

Let's try to beat you know, our old you know, oldies, and they're gonna try to go out there and they might fool themselves into believing that they are and you know what, and they possibly could, but no one's going to hear it because it's for the first time and we spent a decade in twenty or two decades listening to these incredible songs that have been a soundtrack to our lives. You know. But let's let's go deeper on one of those points. Let's assume you've had a period

of hits, six or seven well known slumps. Do you think the people ten or twenty years later are capable of writing another hit? Absolutely, I absolutely do. I feel that the problem happens when people want to be relevant, when they start thinking that they need to write a song that sounds like today, And the truth is Nobody wants a song from Neil Young that sounds like today. They want Neil Young, Um, Carly Simon, they want Carly,

they want Dolly. I mean when I worked with Dolly, for example, I just took her songs and recreated them in a very organic way that I thought, what would Dolly do right now if she had total control of this? And I just simplified everything. And then the songs we wrote were awesome. We wrote six songs in two days because we weren't trying to chase anything. We just it was just Dolly and Linda and and that's those were

the songs that Lynda and Dolly wrote. And Dolly was like, these are to me equally as powerful as my songs and and you know, my my other material. And I said, I agree, and I told her, I said, but the thing is, we've had years to live with Joline and all these other songs. These songs are not going to be accepted as well, but we don't care because they're not going to have the level of you know, intimacy with these songs as they have with your other stuff.

And that's what it comes down to. But when people want to be relevant and start being modern. It's to me, that's a buzz kill. I agree with you, but today's marketplace if we can talk about radio, which is decreasing and importance, lets you just stay with pop laeve country in its own world for now it is unless you're hip hop or who are you? Where did you come from? I just want to get okay, asked me specific questions and all the answer how did you start here doing

the podcast? And I was on I was on the Recode podcast. This goes back a few years ago, um and with Peter Kafka, and then all of a sudden, all these people were tracking that be down to do a podcast. Okay, So ultimately I went with this company tune In. Tune In is well known there there the if you get the app or you go online, you can listen to any radio station all over the world. So I was with tune in for a year and now I'm with my Heart And uh, that's a general

story of how that podcast. Any more questions I'll answer, Well, I mean I'm just curious because it's like, honestly, when um my assistant, he was like, uh, Bob just sent you an email and I knew of you, but I'm not that verse in what you're a rock star, like your personality is a total rock star. But I was like, okay, well let me let me you know. You know, I grew up in Connecticut and I was born in nineteen fifty three. I was fifty miles from New York City.

As a result, in New York media, New York TV, New York Radio, etcetera. And my mother would buy us like Big Girls, Don't Cry, by the Four Seasons, etcetera. And I became a huge Jan and Dean fan. And then the Beatles hit music drove the culture. If you want to know which way the wind blew, you listen to music. And of course the first UH underground station was case Sand. They might say in Pasadena, but let's

just say in in UH San Francisco. And then they had them starting in nineteen in New York City, so you immediately flipped there. And it was free form radio and there were all these great acts, so you bought these records. My parents. There was always money if it was cultural. If you said, hey, I wanted a car, forget it, I want money to go to a concert, no problem. But everybody was into music, which one of the reasons why all the baby boomeracks can do such

great live business at this day. So um two, I went to college. You know, I went to college because you're supposed to go to college, not because I thought I want to learn anything. I'm gonna study anything. Whatever. So I went to this college, Middlebury College in Vermont, because very beautiful, and it's has some stature, and they had their own ski area. I was very into skiing. Little did I know that of the people were prep school kids. Okay, they have a completely different background like

they had Kavanaugh whatever. I know those people they've been living apart from their parents for years. That's where I learned. You don't have to hand in anything on time, profess No, just as for an extension public school, you couldn't do that. But the first semester you got to a small school like that, we you had to take an English class. And I called the professor on a Sunday and so can I do something creative? And he said yes. I never called a professor after that, but that was the

one time I did. You know, if you where I went to college, You've got three B minuses in a D. That was Dean's list. I mean it was really you know, an A was a real thing. So I got an A on this paper I wrote, and oh, you know, first of all, I told the prep school kids what it was about, said, oh, you're gonna funk. I got an A. And this was before phones in dorms, and I went to the pay phone and I told my

mother to be a writer, and she laughed. Okay, So the next year I went to uh take the creative writing course from the one guy who taught it at Middlebury who was a failed c writer. Okay. When I would read, it would be like springtime for Hitler. People just jaws would drop. The producers. To be very specific, I went to see Alice Cooper on the Killer tour in Boston and I wrote about that, and the guy finally said, hey, that was good, but it needed a twist.

And I'm like, flip it out a twist. You ever heard of the new journalism, which is already over. There's no twist. I never wrote another thing, Okay. I always want to be in the music business. Lived a couple of years years in Utah, being a failed freestyle skier. My father always wanted me to go to law school. I went to law school because at the time a lot of the labels were run by lawyers. Okay, and my father is a real estate appraiser before they owned

a liquor store. Nobody we know is in the music business. And it was terrible. But I fell with someone that I lived with that carried me through law school and certainly if I went to law SCHOOLMA pass the bar, which I do, and I passed the first time. I practiced for like ten minutes. And I don't know how much detail I have to give, but ultimately I worked for Sanctuary Music and with Iron Maiden and Loss. This is in the eighties, and we had enough clout and

money that we would hire independent PR people. This is when the labels were king, and these were very rich deals to begin with. And you would get the bios from the PR people and they say, this is just terrible. I couldn't send this out and I started to rewrite it, so then I got I lost my job, Okay, over a creative issue. This is kind of interesting. I told him banned. The mix was terrible, and I got the guy Dwayne Baron who just done Quiet Riot to remix

it and it was listenable. But I was giving the level of input and said, you gotta go. So that's the kind of job you make a lot of money because you can't spend it. You're working around the clock. And eventually I worked on a couple of movies because I've been in the movie business as a lawyer, and after that, and then I ran out of money. Okay, So then my psychiatrist sent me to a job counselor. There's a famous book called What Color Is Your Parachute?

It's about seeking jobs. But I didn't know there was a workbook. He gives me. The workbook says, right, sick, you have to write success as brag about yourself. And I wrote the success and I said, yeah, this is what I wanted to be ten years before. So I get out my writer from college electric type right, and I type up some stuff and I sent it to magazines and you get some nice note back. Those back you Holy sh it. This is just like the music business. You have to know somebody. So I was eating a

hamburger at a place called Flaky Jake's. Now it's like a jewelry store at Pico and Sepulvida, and I'm reading Billboard, which has been up and down it's down again. After it was down period, Timothy White made a little better for a minute in the early nineties. I said this is terrible. I could do a better job than this, And all of a sudden, I said, you know you can buy computers. You get me, maybe you can do this.

So I had a credit card, five thousand dollars credit, I bought a Mac Plus and I started this newsletter. Only if the newsletter come out every two weeks, and it came out religiously every two weeks. Not gonna be a flake on the same fucking day, Okay. So every article was a tip in the music business. Tip really means radio what what they're playing. This would be insight in how to run your business. And I had a threshold that I said, this number of people has to

have to subscribe Rose, I'm gonna stop. I sent three free issues. What astounded me was only the most successful people subscribed because the people further down the food chain, they couldn't hear anything contrary. They were going. So the heads of every labeler calling me, they want to hang. The only person who ever canceled their subscription was Clive Davis. He's a story unto himself and then you know, I think, well, I'll do some consulting. Bah bah bahm. Then my ex

wife moves out and I brought out on money. It's really terrible. The nineties were kind of a lost decade. But I had a free subscription to a O L still writing the newsletter when you had a paid by the minute, so I knew everything about tech. I'm also a lawyer. All of a sudden, Napster hits. To be very specific, this guy, David Krebs calls me when it was irving on the West coast, irving as office the manager. Krebs was on the East coast. He had a C

d C. He had new Ginny at Aeros Smith. He calls me and he goes, we are all the acts on Napster, okay, And I say, this is a good point, and I write it in one of my newsletters. And I get a call from Cliff Bernstein, who I knew was one half of the Q Prime operation, and as a result they sued Metallica. That's how it all went. Metallica's Napster. But I became the expert on the intersection of music in the Internet, and I didn't now just to be that a little flavor. I was earlier than

everybody just because I was there. Like I would go to the you know, the shrink and talk about Internet hate. They have no idea what you're talking about. I mean now Jimmy Kimmel does it on TV. Okay, so other opportunities become. First five years, you had to email me. I let subscriptions run out, but you have to email me to get on the list. That was just to go one step further. It used to be you had

to send to physical addresses. I go to this conference every year and Aspen in December, and in for the first time, they gave email addresses. I had friends working in the publishing book business. There was a book about UH David Geffen called The Operator, which I recommend people listened to. And I had it a weekend before anybody, and I wrote about it and send it to the

ask for people. Incredible. Then I started hearing from people like Jefferson Hold he was the original manager of R. E. M okay and UH okay, it's great, you're into me, but how did you get it? You know? And he says, well, you know, I got it from what Williams The UH the a and R Guy, so he's not on the list either. So I experienced virality, but there's a lot

of blowback. This is like being a rock star now more than ever because people because once you rise above it's not quite like Cannon in England, but they're trying to bring you back down. So I didn't automate the mailing list till two thousand five, and by that time I could kind of handle the feedback. I also had a mission because I was aware of what I was under the illusion that the record companies would suite Napster,

which I knew was copyright infringement. I was a lawyer, even though I friends with the guys at Napster at this point um and I assumed when they won the case, then they would license Napster one of these other things, which they didn't. So I said, I want to get to the point when Spotify ended up being, which was pay a load price, you can get all the music. Okay. I figured that's what the public wants. So I mean, I was the number one person on all these issues

they gave free subscription to. I have no investment in any of these things, otherwise it couldn't comment. And you know, I generated more more free subscribers when they launched in two thousand eleven than anybody else. They gave you know stuff too. But what happened was in the music business sixties and seventies, music drove the culture. If you wanted to know what was going on, you bought a record. Okay. Then it kind of died at the end of the

seventies with core rock disco. Then it blew up so and CBS Columbia Records laid awful lot of people. Then MTV came along and there was a resurgen. First it was the old acts. Then as a result of Culture Club and Duran Duran, you had new acts. But as you hit the late eighties, it started to become more about the video and how people looked as opposed to their underlying abilities and the song. But that played out through the nineties and then the year two thousand came,

everything blew apart. But once it was I believe maybe when every it was it was so weird experience. Everybody got a subscription to a O L and they started to play. So for twenty years, Internet drove the culture. Okay, From five, you're buying a new gadget, you where everybody's talking about a new app that's solidified right now, Politics, especially in America, is driving the culture. So just to

go some of these issues that we have. When I grew up wrong, middle class, Okay, there were beautiful people, but they might be in the art class. They were not. You know, you'd say, oh, they're beautiful whatever, they're living in another planet. They became the artists, okay. And then you had people like the Jefferson airplane, you know, up against the wall. Motherfucker. These are middle class people. They can speak their truth when life became so hard. And

I'm gonna piss people off at Reagan legitimized greed. Today, today's kids are very sophisticated. It's a very hard life out there. You can't make it on minimum wage. And I believe the lower classes, as opposed to the middle classes, are going into music and they'll do what people tell them to do, where the middle class they won't. So I think you have to mix that in. In addition, you have to go to the point where the business

is not aligned with reality. If you'll get pull started the touring bible and you look what's selling tickets, it's far wider than the Spotify Top fifty. So we have an industry that still thinks there's a top ten, and maybe you can boil it down to a top ten. But there's a million other things happening, and these things like I want to see the Tansky Trucks band last week. I mean I've met you know. People think I found him yesterday. I met you know, Derek Trucks when he

was playing with the Allman Brothers fifteen years ago. Okay, they've my frenzy agent. They've been playing for years. If you go there, the audience, this is like their favorite band. But if you talk to someone under the age, they've never even heard of them. So it's a disconnect where it used to be. If you could sell that many tickets, everybody would know you. I'll stop my real map. No, that's amazing. Um, you jumped to so many different places. But I just want to go back to the eighties

for a second. The eighties may have had bad videos and some crazy hair due but he takes all those productions away. There are really good songs in the eighties. Songs were written in there, but the productions and videos were for crazy. But eighties is some of my favorite music, getting a few tracks, a few tracks any soft sell um Banshees M. There was this band called Everything but the Girl that I Love Duran Duran, I mean, of course, how about Culture Club some I was a huge I

went to see them, Yeah, like two years ago. I was stunned out good it was yeah, you know, my friends. For some reason, I dug the first you know, the you know, do you really want to hurt me? But everything else kind of got a little too much for me. I guess I wasn't a huge fan the Church of the Poison Mind, which was on the second really using the Banshees by far number one now a member. I was remember the slits who wrote this book. Wasn't Susie

and the Banchees. Okay, that's the eighties. Yeah, but I got a very quick question. You can ask me a question any time. How did you get to go on that Neil Young tour? Well? Um, I was in my band for an Arbombs and then I left the band, was it? Yeah? I left the band and um, so we were in the middle of our second record and I just couldn't I just couldn't do it. I was like, I can't do this. Again, Um it wasn't. Um, the band wasn't for me. And wonderful success, thank you you

know for that. I believe the energy of that was amazing and it really did, you know, help, but um, it just wasn't fulfilling me soulfully. And so I got out of the band, and UM, I think I just said I wanted to go out on tour with Neil Young, and I did this record, um, and this record is in Flight, and I felt that would be perfect for Neil Young. And then I just got the tour was

a little bit slower. You were the opening up. I was the opening xt okay, so your agent so my agent at the time as Danny um Winery Peninsula and um, and so we got that gig. So some shows was me opening up and then some shows were the big festivals. So would be like there was one show we did in uh Glasgow where it was um Me Pearl Jam,

Neil Young Van Morrison. I mean it was like, you know, all of a sudden got into these really really cool things that you know for Blonde's couldn't I mean I opened up for the who you know, I mean it was pretty amazing. So um, but that's how that happened. But yeah, and I would. I told him it's like, you know, every time you play, I just want to go out and pick up a truck and I feel like I can throw it, you know. And there was I went to see this movie Echo in the Key Union.

I mean they sent me a screener. Okay, So in the movie they're talking about the competition between acts, how Brian Wilson is doing something. A lot of this is well okay, and then the Bill said, holy funk, it's pet sounds. We have to do better. And I know exactly what you're talking about. When you when you're kind of in the game, Holy fuck, it inspires you. As opposed to today, a lot of times we feel like

we're living in a silo. Yeah, well, you know, again, going back to a long time question ago, I feel that digression is a spice of you know, what we're dealing with is a very you know, I'll just call it the me generation where it's just me, me, me um.

And I don't think music can come from that place or or be presented that way because the whole reason, you know, yes, we want to do music for ourselves, but it's for ourselves to empower others as well, to send a message for ourselves having an you know, an ego or whatever it is, or a political statement or you know, whatever statement that we have. And I think

that's what the problem is. No one's making a statement about anything, and the music is just so I don't even know who is who, you know, but right now, I mean, I am excited because there's a lot of great stuff, you know, I feel. I can't tell you what, but I can feel the energy is shifting right now and there's a lot of um based on I mean, I do a lot of panels like what you saw I do that. I've been doing that like for the

past year and a half straight. And the reason, you know, I needed to correct your comment, you know that I was, you know, hurting people. I was like, but that to me, anytime you tell someone the truth, it's going to hurt them in some way. Because the point what I was trying to make is if your mom and your sister and your family said, oh, Darling, that's so what a great you know song there, they don't have the right information. They're lying to you basically because of anybody who told

you that was good is lying to you. And that's that actually I know that, you know, I say the exact same thing. Put it up on YouTube or sound cloud, and forget your friends if they if they are the planes going up. I'm trying to get kids to go actually perform, you know, and get off of the socials because right now, that's to me is what is happening. That there's a The art of recording is dying, The

art of performing live is dying. The art of you know, writing a song, it's like that craft, that art of recording, songwriting, performing, it's not being um. The kids don't know. They don't know what a rehearsal room is. They don't know that you can actually get a band together, meet, connect because they don't understand that part the reasons the reason the Beatles were so great, it's because there was a connection with all the members of the band Rolling Stones, just

an airplane, Fleetwood Mac. These are all great connections. Whether they all get along or not doesn't matter. A connection is made by all these artists that formed in this band, that created this huge persona and this incredible music. And when you listen to you know, these kids getting together there I don't even know how they're meeting each other. But what they're not doing is going in a rehearsal room, figuring out who they are and then getting out there

into the real world. Whether it's your your sister, um uh's boyfriend Bobby who's having a party down in the basement when their parents are gone and they want your band to perform, you get instant reaction right there, like you can all of a sudden realize, Okay, that song is not working. People really didn't like that we bombed. But right now kids are taking I have kids coming

to me and tell me it. Well, you know, I spent you know, fifteen thousand dollars making this demo and I don't know how to get it out there, and you know, um it just seems like nobody wants to hear it. And then I hear it and I'm like, did you listen to this? And they're like, yeah, I go, you should. Who told you to spend fifteen dollars on this? You don't have one song on here? Who the hell told you? You know that you that was the best thing to do. Well, you know, my friend or my parents,

they gave me the money go do this. And then this guy took the money. Of course, the guy took the money. You know, he's in it for money. He's got a studio that he's not making any money. Some you know, silly kids gonna come in here some five

bad songs. He's gonna take your money, you know. So anyways, that's what I'm trying to get kids to do, to kind of get off of the That's why I said fuck you to those people who get up on stage and teach these kids about how to make their socials even bigger, because why what why don't we try to

make them stronger as individuals, stronger as artist, songwriters, performers. First, why don't we use all your know how and knowledge to why don't you give them some money and start some kind of band camp or some kind of thing to get these kids in there, and then you can document that and put it on your social media and you know, explore the possibilities of teaching kids how to actually be. But the question becomes today's generations are they

more interested in becoming famous or making music? Exactly celebrity. That's why I said that we are being driven by celebrities. And you know, someone was saying, well, you know, I just record the songs and I put them out there. And I said, you know, people are more precious to put out a photo on Instagram. They sit there and they doctor it. They I see kids take pictures like

over and over until they get the right one. Then they go put it through its filters and do all this stuff, make sure it looks great, okay great, and then they put it out there because they know that that once that is out there, they're not getting it back. I don't see anybody really doing that with music. I see music just coming out. Oh I has wrote this today. Oh it's a great song because my my sister said

it was and my girlfriend loved it. So I'm gonna put it on my Instagram now and watch the buzz happen on YouTube and I'm gonna be picked up like Justin Bieber, you know, and it's like, you know that that's gone. Now, that's out there in the world, that piece of ship that you just put out there. Not only is it bad and it's out in the world, but it's it's going to clutter get in the way of something good. Well need the barrier to entry is

non existent. Everybody's got garage being on their computer. They can make us long. They can get it on certainly YouTube. And my thing is, I know you can, but it doesn't mean you should. Okay, But the question question becomes, this person who spent fifteen thou dollars. You spoke the truth to that person. How did they handle it? Oh? They're bummed out, man, bummed out because they're like, well, I wish I would have known you, you know, a year ago. They's just like, but I said, listen, you

have to be smart, and that's why. And actually it's those kind of conversations what started me to start going on these panels. And and I mean I've been all over the place trying to talk to kids and I don't listen. I don't think I know jack Ship. All I know is my truth and what works for me and my experience. And I know that I don't operate from me. I operate from I'm in this business that I love, I respected so much. I love making music. It is just it's who I am. I will always

be this person no matter what. And because this is my world, my job, I owe it to myself and the people that are in it to invest emotionally in it as well. So I'm trying to protect this to me very I mean talk about you know, what is a crisis going on. There is a crisis, you know, when music is being treated like the most. It's the most. I mean it's the biggest thing out there, but it's treated like ship. You know, from songwriters to performers, to

credits to all that. It's like it's everywhere, but it's like the songwriter or whatever. It's like literally on the it's like might as well be a piece of dog poop. You know that people are just stepping believe songwriter royalties should go up. They got screwed when they went to these digital things, specially streaming. But do you feel like you're putting your finger in the dyke? I mean, because I was doing did you didn't say, am I putting

my finger in the dyke? I was. I was in the Netherlands with a little boy that you're looking at it that way? What I mean by do you know that calling as dyke is also another word for a lesbian. Of course I know that, but it wasn't in my brain. I was like to say that, Bob, you said put your finger in the dike? Right? Isn't that what they say, wasn't there you went to school? Wasn't a little boy? And the story we had his finger in the dike and he took the finger. And then as I know

what the story you're saying, it's just funny. I've been doing that. I've been doing this a long time. And I used to tell people the truth. Okay, I refused to blow smoke up their ass. I had a lot of bad experiences because these people become vindictive. Okay, let me go one step further. Last fall, I went on tour with Jason flam Is that a lot of hits And we went to USC they have like a recording program and he's blowing smoke up the ass. Oh, you

can make it. You can do that. And I'm like the only persdae the You have to need to be in this business. You know, staying in is the hardest part. This is the business side. But I want to know, if I look at some big bands touring today, if you look at cold Play, if you look of the Dave Matthews band, they broke in the era when there was still v H one airplay. Okay, it's very different today.

So my question to you is, yes, since it's all blue blew apart, and certainly within nine years, let's call it two thousand and ten. Is anybody out there that started at that time that you think is a rock star? Yeah, someone who wasn't built on MTV VH one. Brandy Carlyle, I agree with you there, But she's been doing it a long time. Brandy Carlisle. I think she's amazing to me.

Like I just recently, you know, UM met her, you know, during the whole Grammy time and I was like, oh my god, I can't believe I haven't met you before. What an incredibly talented person. Well, the other thing she emails me and she, you know, it's totally down to earth, talks about fishing in this there there isn't that scrim between her when you see her and on. I mean,

that's what I'm talking about. Like, you know, when when going back to what a rock star is, rock star is just it's just there's a confidence, there's just a thing. There's an insecurity, there's a very transparent insecurity. Um and then there's just a you know, a person that can be in tennis shoes, sitting on a boat fishing like Brandy Carlile and be very down to earth and humble. But again, you just know there's something different about her.

There's just something different about Brandy. Jumping off on your point. This is one of my theories going back to an earlier thing talking about the male musicians of the sixties and seventies, a lot of them were very shy. They did it to meet girls, and once they became famous, met girls and made all this money, and it didn't solve their problems. I think that's why they can't write the hit it anymore, because it was like that curate in front will get there and I'll be happy. Well,

I think too. A lot of people ask me about, you know, do you do a song when you get writer's blocked? And I said, I don't get writer's blocked, And they're like, why I go Because writer block comes from someone who's thinking. I'm not I'm never thinking when I'm writing. I mean, I just I'm right now, Thank

you the universe. Something's going on in my life right now where everybody you know, I I said about you know, there's been like a seven year span or maybe five or something like that, but um, everybody wanted really cut and paste top winy kind of music and it's just not my thing, Bob. I don't do that, you know. And so my wife was like, well, and I was kind of showing telling her my frustration, and she's like, well, what are you gonna do. I'm like, well, I'm a songwriter.

People are gonna want songs again, and when they do, I'll be here and my phone will start ringing. And lately my phone has been ringing. You know, that's a great sign for me, because I don't ever follow the trend. I don't even know what a fucking trend is. I wouldn't know how to be hit if you showed it to me and taught me and spent millions of dollars helping me get there. I don't know what that is.

But I do know how to write a song, and I know how to connect to people, and um, you know, so to me, you can tell them I can go, I can leave you, go into that room, go into that room, and go into that room, and go into that room with seven different people, and I can walk out of every room and I can walk out with a song. How do you feel about collaboration. I love collaborations. I I think that you know, for me, um. The collaboration is a very interesting one because there's different different

levels of what collaboration is. So one would be the more you know, normal one where you and I get together, we want to write a song, and we sit here, you have your guitar, got mine, and we just bounce ideas off of we write a song. Great. The other collaborate ration is you're over there on your computer typing away on doing I don't know what, you know, or instagramming, twittering, and I'm out there coming up with the song, and you know, I come in and like, okay, here what

you got, you know, and we talk. But to me, I still feel like that's a collaboration because no matter what whatever I did out there, I never would have done if it wasn't for the energy, you know, of the person sitting there. You know, like I really feed off the energy of somebody. And then there's the collaborations which I don't get involved in, and that's the one where everybody and your mother is inside a room trying to write a song that really, you know, didn't really

take seven people to write. Those those collaborations confuse me. I don't understand how bad song it takes seven people to write a bad song. How about writing yourself? I love writing by myself. It's my best work. And I think what happen for me is like I went off on a tangent of wanting to write with a bunch of people, and although I love the songs, that's not

the point. The thing is, there's something different about when you're just by yourself and having your own thought because I'm very different in my my My perspective is completely different than any of these kids, you know, And I

don't chase anything. So what happens in some collaborations, I find myself having to help someone with a vision that may not be that original, and they want to chase something that might be already out there in the world, and my job is to help take them, you know, away from that and distract them and bring them back

into why don't we just be you? You know? And sometimes what happens with that there's a friction because I just want to do something original and cool and left field and are very fix fixated on tempo subject matter and you know, a melodic structure that doesn't make any sense. But we talk about earlier inspiration and being driven to top something can you do that because I have a friend who's a publisher, big guy in Kenna and Michael McCarty,

and I argue with them all the time. He thinks the best songs are done in collaboration, and I don't like to collaborate at all. I don't think that that is true. I do believe that when you have the energy with somebody like um, Alicia more Pink, I collaborated really well with her, like we got along great and we just instantly did. Alicia Keys and I are great together, you know. But my best songs and my biggest songs were the ones I wrote by myself. Okay, the next

question is, obviously you're very experienced. You're never gonna write something terrible, But do you know when you're writing something exceptional? I feel like I just wrote an exceptional song the other day, and um, I and then what happens with that is like I cannot be distracted with disappointment if somebody doesn't feel that way, because I could say I have like probably three albums of songs that didn't make it on someone's album, and I'm like, going, are you

fucking high? You didn't put this? You put that piece of sh it on your fucking record and you didn't put this. You know. I can go that way, but I don't. But it's more like, okay, you know, Um, I have like songs that one day I may release and go the songs that never made it, you know, and do that kind of album and because they're so good. But I think they're so good, I just know. I mean, I'm writing every day. I'm not going to write a five, but I know when I'm writing an eleven, and you

can't do it every day. And the funny thing is, if all of a sudden you really actually doing something great, usually you lose it. Yeah, it's like something that comes out of the sky. And the greatness, too, comes from when you're not chasing. Lately, I've been really in this mode of like, I'm I'm tired. I'm super tired. I run a business. I have, I'm my mom. You know, I'm writing, I have my studio, I have, I manage artists and me and my partner Carrie Brown, Um, you

know we want run this company. We are here and um, we're tired. We haven't slept in two and a half years, and I feel like I haven't slept in fifteen. But the thing is, when I get tired, I don't know what happens, but I'm like, you know, magic, like you know, in the middle of the night to three in the morning, I'll just pop up. And last night, um, I was asked to write a song for Bocelli, and I was like, well, I don't want to write a normal song him, you

know whatever. So I just popped out a bed, you know, and I just got something, a sensation, and you know, and mind you, I wasn't in bed, I was just sitting there and I just it's like two o'clock in the morning. I grabbed a guitar, went in the art room and sat there and I came up with this song that kind of sounded like maybe Roy Orbison would sing it. And I was like, awesome, that is great. That would have never came to me with the same mind. You know what I mean, I totally agree. It's like

in the shower you get good inspiration. It's like when you really have to do something, then you go to lunch whatever, all of a sudden, at one point, all of a sudden inspired you. So you when you when you are inspired, the song is written pretty quickly. Oh yeah, super super quick. And I've been really um in this

computer right behind me. I have like close to a thousand songs that are not finished that I because the way I write, I just sit at the piano or guitar and I'll just I could do it now, if I had a guitar, I could just start writing a song and it'll just you'll you'll think I've written this. Alright, I'm playing you a song that I wrote, and really it's just something that I'm just making up right now on the spot. And then I'll get like distracted and then like okay, um, let's make a mix of that

and put it in there. And so a lot of them their full formed songs, but I have to go back and fix lyrics, you know. So I'm just constantly, constantly, They're just constantly coming I I don't I It's like it flows, you know, It's always coming out, and it gets overwhelming because I get so far behind. So I have to tell myself, you gotta write it right now, just write it right now. And so now I'm on that mode right now where if it comes, I'm just writing it right now because I I don't want to.

I mean, I've been going through those songs. I'm just going, Oh, how am I going to get back to that emotion? You know, because you know, you know, it's like I have a I have great starting point, but it's like where was I at emotionally? Read re read everything twice before I send it, and I used to wait a day or day or two to reread it, and I always funked it up because my head wasn't in the same place when I wrote it. Let's go back to

the beginning. You're originally from Massachusetts. I was born in Springfield, Massages. Certainly in Springfield, the home of Friendly ice Cream. Yeah, I was there one day one year. I was one years old, and we moved to San Diego. And so how many kids in your family? There's five. I have five brothers and one sister. But to my brother's I wasn't really raised with okay, because different parents or because

a lot of different things. And my mother's from Brazil and my father's from Portugal, and my mother and father met in Brazil. My mom left, she had like probably a four different you know, situations happened. Um, there's four different fathers, I think with all all seven kids, Um, it's very mysterious. You know, the kids were the different fathers. Are they in Brazil? No? No, no, so they So two of them were left in Brazil and the rest of us came. Well, my sister, my brother, and two

My sister and two brothers came to America. Two were left out there, and then me and my brother Jay were born in America. So I'm the I am the youngest. I'm the baby of seven. Okay, So how did your mother meet your father? Um? Well, Bob, that's a very questionable um thing that we're trying to figure out. But are you My father is not. He passed away about ten years ago. My mother has a very questionable um past that we can't like. It's I'm telling you, it's

skeletons in the closet left and right. I I. We can't really get a straight answer from that. She's an unreliable nere. She's a very unreliable So okay, But they then they met in Brazil. My father was in the army, and my father designed missiles and radios and computer chips and did all that kind of stuff. Um, my father was the guy that manned the radios or whatever in the submarine and UM. Then he went on to be UM does a start designing you know, uh, computers and

chips and missiles. And so they met there. My mom was a model or something to that effect, and they met in a very suspicious kind of situation. And UM, but my sister and Solomon, Mark and Marcel were already with you know, from different fathers, but they were with her, with her with her, and then my father met my mom. They got pregnant. My mom got pregnant and had my

brother John. So there are three of us are from my dad, so me, my brother John that he manages the studio and works with me all the time, and my brother Jane myself. So he moved to So yeah, okay, just to be clear. So they left two behind in Brazil, two behind that were raised to believe that my mom was there. Aunt, I understand, do you have have you met them? You have any contests? Yes? Then they showed up.

One showed up when I was five. He was sixteen, and my father got him as a president president for my mom and surprised her with him and UM, and then one was left in Brazil until I was I got my first money from foreign on bonds. I paid for him to come out here, and then I met him when I was like, are they now living in America? Yes, now they're Ina. So everybody's in America now, Okay, so you're you moved to San Diego. How many brothers and

sisters are living under the same roof? Um, my immediate fan, Emily is my three brothers and my sister, so five of us and I'm the youngest. And then my brother Mark showed up, and then he was there for a little bit, but then left early because he was sixteen already. Okay, your father worked for the army, but he's very sophisticated work.

I assume he left the army. What did he do for a little He started working for General Dynamics, and then he worked for the government, and like we we had to live in China Lake for a while and San Diego, as you know, is a very big military town, and so it was General Dynamics. And um, my father was interesting about him is he didn't teach us anything about music, but he was very musically. Um, he was very musical man. He loved jazz and he loved um

Frank Sinatra and just really fancy. He's playing music in the house kind of. But he I never really knew he played piano unless we went out somewhere he'd see a piano and then he'd start playing jazz. And we know he never taught us anything. My father he wanted to be. He wanted to be where I am probably now, and he didn't have the He didn't feel was worth it. It was too unreliable, this business, and so he started doing all this stuff with the government. And here's the

funny thing. My life could have been so much different. In are all of our lives. But my father he was very hip on everything about computers going on, Microsoft, mac all of it. He knew um uh mac and sorry Macintosh. He knew everything about what was happening they were building. He was part of a team that we're

building computers in the seventies. I mean, he would show us these prototypes of the phone where you pick up the phone and you could see someone inside the TV and then the other person would be like know down the street, like that was made. And so my father had an opportunity to invest in all that and he did not. And it's like one of those things like you know, and I love my life, I wouldn't change

it for anything, But I feel bad for him. Like, my dad could invested five dollars and he would probably be a billionaire right now. He knew everything. He was in the company that was turning into you know what is one of the biggest companies. You know, so, uh, you're growing up in the house, it sounds like money was not the number one issue or no, we didn't have any money. That's the bummer part. Like, you know,

we were on welfare. You know, my father bragged about money all the time, but he was spending it at the bar with his buddies. And you know, because he my dad wanted to be in a brat brat pack, you know, like this fantasy was he was. He had a very mafia thing. I think he actually had something going on, you know, where he was kind of like one of those guys. And and so when he was at the bar, like everybody knew my dad, he was

very flamboyant. But we would be home with powdered milk and eating tuna, you know, a bazillion different ways, and spam and all this stuff, and it was very very my mother was very upset all the time, you know, because it's like what are you doing your kids don't have clothes? I mean we learned how to steal, you know.

I mean it was like very you know my upbringing is it's funny now, um, but it was funny then too, you know, being woken up and to go steal plants, you know, from the nursery, so we could resell them to make money, you know, to eat or get clothes. Like we are very very crafty. Um. So my father he you know, I got it. I understood what he was trying to do. He was not a happy man and the only thing that made him happy was being able to act like he was a hot shot. So okay,

did your parents remain married? No, they got divorced when I was ten, and I was so excited about it because all they did was fight, and so they got divorced. But they always remained like literally a mile away from each other, very codependent, until the day my father passed away. Did they ever get remarried or another have a boyfriend or girlfriend? My mom did not my father. Okay, once you separated, refinances better or worse? Um, well worse because

then we had nothing. Um, and my mom almost got taken away by the you know, government or because she was being you know, she had to use a different

name to collect more welfare. So she was getting welfare from two different names, and they got on to her and I remember these you know men coming to our house and basically wanting to rest my mom right there and um for fraud in So she got out of it, and UM figured I don't know, actually I still don't know what happened, to be honest, um, but I remember her returning and she never had to go to jail,

So um there was. My mom was very very She's a survivor, incredibly powerful, strong woman, and you know, came to this country not knowing once, not one word of English. My father never taught it to her, and we weren't allowed to speak Brazilian so Portuguese, so my mother had to learn how to English, you know, through us kind

of talking and on TV. And then it made it very difficult because sometimes I'll be talking and um, you know, people will make fun of like certain words I'll say, and I'll say the word and I'm like, well that's the way I learned it because my mom, you know, I was raised well I always say motorcycle, you know, like I say mortar and you know, my mom, and refrigerator was really really hard. It was he freezer door,

you know. You know, so it's like, you know, so it's like and we were raised to believe that toilet paper was called Holy Papelle and like a lot of like you know, the pun of Punta LEAs, you know, like all these weird little things. And I was like, no, okay, that's not it. Alright, no problem. But um anyways, but very very um, you know, she was very unique, is very unique, very um what kind of relationship do you have with her? I have a great I have a

good relationship with her. Now, Like you know, I'm such an aries, like I just want to know everything. I don't like I don't I don't like not knowing the answers to certain things. And there's so many unanswered questions and in our childhood and and and so I probably developed a bad relationship with her because she just wouldn't give me the information and I can't stand it, you know. And so then I just let it go. And I'm like, you know what, you you you figure out your life, mom,

you know, I'm gonna I'm good. Okay. So with lack of money, and that many kids. To what degree were you on your own as opposed to you know, parents watching over you or well none of us graduated school. You know, I was out on eighth grade. I think I ditched out and I couldn't take it anymore because I just I wasn't developing my brain in that way. Like it's very hard for me to learn. Um, I get very mixed up in my head. I have to do everything myself, um in order to understand what I'm doing.

Um So, I had a lot of problems in school for not being able to uh do homework or answer questions properly. But for some reason, tests I would always pass, and I did test based on instinct, you know, I was just like, Okay, I'm going to answer this, and I always seem to be really good at that. Um. But um so I left in then. Well, but usually in America, you have to go to school to your sixteen Yeah no, no, the truant officer never came looking

for you. If your parents don't complain back then, we never Okay, so you drop out of school primarily because it doesn't align with what are you gonna do for money? Well, just go get a job like age fourteen, got a lot of jobs, Like what kind of jobs you do? I did boat work and I used to sit on a dock and you clean boats. Do you have any regrets that you didn't go to school? Not at all. No, I don't. And how about your children? Do you think they should go to school? Of course, you know, I

don't mean, but I wasn't. I said, my children have a completely different life, you know. Um, I was very I didn't have things, you know, so you when you are not living. I mean, it's very very different, you know back then. And um, I mean life was very very different back then. You know, the way you're brought up, the way you know, punishment, parenting, all of it was. I mean, und today's an abused child. Oh yeah, my

mom would be in prison, you know. And um, so you know you have to I grew up very fast. I look at my son, he's four years old. One more year, he's gonna be five years old. And what I was down the street hanging out all day long at five years old. I would never ever let my son go down the street and hang out and to show come back, you know, like it would just never happen.

If I laugh about it. Now I'm just like going, Holy Cow, you know, and um, but yes, of course they should go to school because it's like it is important and for many things I I try. I kept trying to go back to school just to meet friends because I was lonely. I mean, I didn't have any friends. So I would go back to school and I would you know, just hang out and then they would let me back in, you know, of course they're gonna let

me back in there. And then the president, I mean, the what's his name that the principles I don't even know principle would come in asked me to come in. He's like, why are you here? And I'm like to meet people and he's like, you know, school is not for to sit here and meet people and you're wasting our time. And I'm like, but I'm not even in the classes, so how am I wasting anybody's time? You know? But I couldn't just look then I was considered loitering,

you know, at school on campus. So anyway, so it was fun, But honestly, I knew at a very very early age this kind of stuff is not going to be useful for me. I don't I don't need to bother myself. Okay, so when you start paying music, so then you know, I've always played music, so my whole life, I've always dabbled in it in some way. No, never I we can afford that. I remember wanting to have piano lessons. It was very attracted to piano, and we we just couldn't, you know, because you have to get

a piano and just that just wouldn't happened. Then I wanted to play violin, very expensive instrument, and um, my mom thought it was masculine. I think she was just trying to get me out of not wanting anything that has going to cost money. So you know, I just kind of, um we my mom bought me a little baby guitar from Tijuana, UM, for Christmas, and I just started playing that. My brother John is extremely gifted in that area, and he got a guitar and he joined

a band and he was awesome. He had the hair, the chicks, all of it. And I'm like, I'm gonna be like my brother. And so I just started, you know, learning by ear and um. Then all of a sudden, I just was writing songs at like fifteen sixteen, and um, but I didn't think that was my thing because it was so easy. Of course, that's not what you do. It's just this is part of me, like brushing my teeth whatever. Um, it wasn't until I'm to San Francisco did I go, oh, I'm gonna be a rock star.

How old were you when you moved to San Francisco with all these other family You're very successful, both in terms of celebrity and finance whatever. Anybody else in the family successful? And to what degree is to people in your family hit you up for money? Um, I take care of my mom. I always have. She doesn't hit me up. It's it is my joy to take care of my mother. Um, I have a you know, a couple siblings in there that may take advantage of the situation,

but I throw boundaries down. Now. My brother John is way more successful than I am because he is so he has such a I mean, I have a now that I have my family, But he I just watched him. He has a whole life, you know, he does all these things. I mean, I just kind of his life seems so simple, and I find it to be so successful because I don't even know what success is anymore. I don't I don't understand when all this is going to be enough? When when can I take my hat

off and just relax and take a break. So you've had a lot of success, especially compared to people outside the business, never mind inside the business. Are you saying it doesn't fill a hole in you? It is incredibly humbling for me, always my every day I wake up, I'm very humbled. Um, I'm very humble. I'm very um. I have a lot of gratitude and I um, I just don't think I'm at the level that I would

like to be at. And I guess some people would say I'm successful you talk about business or emotionally just with my my my career. Um, so let's just stay there. What is the dream? Because we're blue sky and it Well, that's the problem that every time I reached the dream, a new dreams shows up. So would have been some of the past dreams? Oh to being a successful rock and roll band and you know, sell millions of records and tour and travel around the world. Okay, that was

that was very successful. You were all over MTV. How hard was it to leave for non blondes? Oh, it wasn't easy at all. I mean I mean suscratch that sorry backwards flip it. It was very easy and you felt that you would just go on to more success. No, no, I didn't think that. I felt that I needed to leave the band because it was a detour I wasn't supposed to. That was not my destiny. I felt my

my whole thing is. I felt that I was going to be a rock star, no Matt with I was gonna be famous with or without for an on Blondes. Sometimes I feel like, oh, if I didn't hop on that boat, I wonder what would have happened. But I don't live and wondering what ifs. So for me, leaving the band was extremely important because I needed to get back on my path. My path was never to share

the stage with three other people. When I won my award, I was bringing my mom on and when everybody else started saying, Oh, I'm gonna bring my mom onto, it was like, wait, what, No, that's my dream. I A'm bringing my mom on stage. You know, you guys, my dream doesn't have you guys on stage with your mom's too, you know, so literally, you know, I came back from somewhere and I said I want to play Carnegie Hall.

I wanna. I want to look out on the audience and see dresses and and tuxedos, and I want this incredible orchestra up behind me and this incredible band, and I just want to be, you know, seeing in Carnegie Hall, to just in this incredible people who are listening to what I'm saying. Literally two weeks later, Roger Dalstree calls me up and asked me to participate in this fiftieth

Birthday at Carnegie Hall with Michael Caman conducting. You know this anything about Michael After doing Mr Holland's Opus film, he started a foundation to give instruments to underprivileged people. And my girlfriend runs that interesting how it comes to okay, but okay. One dream was to be a rock star. One dream was to be on Carnegie Hole. Well its

been some of the recent dreams. Um. Well, right now I'm really working hard to My dream is that when my son, which is, like I said, four years old, that is showing interest in music right now, he's he's writing songs like him and I lay in bed and we make up songs and he's singing all day long. You know, I can cry right now thinking about it. Like he I know, he's desk. I mean, I didn't have this child. My wife is not musical at all, and she had him. There's not a musical bone in

that woman's body, you know. But this this kid is my child, you know, and he My dream is that when he decides to be in this business, that there is a business for him to come to. There's a uh talking about the business the studio or music in general, music in general, that there is a lucrative business for him to or or you know, to have a career or two or an audience that's gonna listen. That that that you know, um uh, holograms aren't taking over the

you know, who fucking knows? Man, who fucking knows that fucking fifteen years from now, instead of wasting our time with artists, Oh there's such trouble and it costs so much money. I'm just going to buy your likeness and I'm just going to you know, pod you down onto a fucking stage. And that's what's gonna be. The new normal is seeing anybody that you want, anywhere you want, because there what is that fucking your three D hologram of whatever artists that you want? That's going to be

the new thing. I'm I actually feel it's actually in the process of being made right now. It has to be the only the only interesting thing is Generation Z and the Millennials are really into experiences, and I find what resonates most is authentic stuff. People with credibility playing real instruments on the same time, and I totally understand E. D C. Meaning the Electric Daisy Carnival. With that, there's a lot of experimentation, but in between, there's a lot

of crap, you know. There again, I'm I love all music, Don't get me wrong. I love it all, you know, all of it. And I appreciate anybody who can write a song and and that a good song, a decent song. Um. But my dream is to be able to do the groundwork right now. I I gotta I gotta start working right now. You know, there's a lot of a lot of miles to cover to make sure you know that there is uh, you know, a business sort of say for him to jump on stage and go and do this.

And mind you, I believe an artist as an artist and you can perform in your garage or anywhere you want. Money should not be the driving force of any artists. And that's what I teach my kids, and that's what I always tell them. Don't go into this business if you think you're gonna go make millions of dollars, because then, right now then your intention is wrong. You're going in with the wrong intention. Go into it because your heart

can't be anywhere else. Go into this because your heart, it would break if you weren't singing or performing or playing music or writing or playing piano for somebody. If your heart is breaking because you're not there, then that is the right time. That's when you're you mentioned earlier. You know you're working very hard. You're burning the candle on both ends. You'd like to take off your hat and relax. The You're always wearing a hat. What's up

with that? Well, Bob, I've always loved hats. I hate my hair. I do have hair, but I can't stand it. I've had dreads, I've had mohawks, I've had mullets, I've had them all, and hats just make me feel good. And I do also think I'm extremely sensitive, so I think I psychically feel like my hat covers my my spiritual like you know, vessel or channel or whatever you want to call it um, And so it's kind of a protection. And I take off my hat when I go home, and my son always knows. Is like, if

I take off my hat, he knows I'm home. But if I leave my hat on, he knows I'm going somewhere. Okay, So essentially, when you leave the house, there's never a time you leave without the hat. What if you go on vacation with your kids, I have my head on. I don't do First of all, Bob, I don't do vacation. I haven't had a vacation in in years. You know, you feel like you're missing something, but when you come back,

you have an incredible burst of inspiration. Yeah no, I know that, and um, but I honestly, I love my family. I love being home, and I love I love what I do. I like I don't feel like i'm working. I feel like I'm one of those people that are, like, you know, at Disneyland fucking seven. And it's like I'm waiting to get kicked out. And until I'm kicked out, I'm going to stay in here and take as much advantage of all these rides as I possibly can. And

I'm gonna know all of them inside it out. And I feel like a measure of success for me is when I, you know, die. Basically, you have hit blonde, you leave for blondes, and at some point you transition to not being a performer and being a songwriter. Tell me about that. That was super easy because I didn't like performing. I don't I don't, Bob, I don't like being told what to do. Let's just be clear with that as an artist. As an artist, I was being told what to do, where to go, and I was

I was fucking cattled and proud all the time. And that did not sit well with me. And when I perform, I wanted to be a special you know time where I'm feeling it and then you know, you there's those times you just have to perform because you're obligated to do that and you made the commitment. I get it. I'm doing that fine. And it just didn't I don't know. My ego didn't need it. My ego felt like, you know what, I'm good? Do you miss it? Now? Okay? So how do you uh become a writer with other

or four other people? I just started writing songs and then I played a song to Pink and then all of a sudden, Bam, I'm the biggest songwriter, you know, the person to call because I had a very successful you know she you know, the thing is is like Alicia had, you know, her biggest was like I think she sold maybe one point eight million records as the R and b bling bling ching ching, and when I showed up, I changed everything about you know, and she

sold I think twelve million records right off the bat. So that's pretty successful. And I think that of course people are gonna call me. And then Christina I had a big hit with her, and then Gwen and then Alicia Keys and you know, everything's just kind of started. But my biggest hits were those you know, the phone ring as much or the email coming in as much as it has at other previous times when you've had hits. Now yeah, so people are looking for you. So how

do you decide what to work on? Well, I'm very particular right now. I'm so focused on my artists. In our label. We have Natasha Benningfield. I just wrote a really great and produced a really great record with her. We we jelled so well in the studio and I mean it's a great album. So we're very excited about that.

She signed who we are here? And um, we have an artist named Jesse Joe Stark and she's a new artist but very very cool, really great vibe, and all of our artists don't need Linda, and that's what we look for. I have an artist that I found her when she was twelve. Her name is will m I. She's fifteen now. She just played Ellen, just played the Today Show. I didn't write a thing. I just helped her, so me and my partner Kerry, and then we have about eleven people that work with us. So you're not

aligned with any of the majors. No, only in Europe. We had to And now you're talking about making albums in today's internet. We own a record pressing plant, by the way, so we print vinyl. Okay, without getting into vinyl. How do you feel about albums relative to singles? I could really give a ship about a single. I don't even understand what a single means nowadays anyways, it's like every label wants to put out a single every other week,

it seems, or every week. Um, nobody is again preserving the art of you know, an album and the reason why everybody's running in fear right now is because nobody's making albums. They don't understand how to those those I think people forget that the single is the main character. Okay, let's put it in a movie mode, right, the single is the main care that's your big actor. That's your Hollywood actor right there. And then the co actor, what do you call him? Is you know your other big star?

So that's your second single, is right? But then in order to make a great movie you have to have a great cast. Well, I'll get a great support the album. And without that cast and that story, well, I would say with streaming, it's about the body of work. If someone listens to a song they like, they'll go deeper and deeper. Yes, so I'm not sure I understand. Once

you get in the groove, you're making an album. But the problem is we live in an attention based economy, and if you put out an album and you don't do something for a year or two, then you don't have the same top of mine. That's not true. That's not true. That's what we're told, but that's not true. I mean, let's just take Adell for instance, A l disappeared for three years. I think it took for her to from from nineteen to one. But I would I mean that was a big and then that album broke

all major records out there. I would agree with your point, but I would shift it to another point. There's only one Adele. Why is that? She is a good singer. Most of the songs have melody. No one else is doing that exactly. No one else, how come is doing it? So how come no one else follows? Because Adele is a rare situation because she doesn't care. She doesn't care for label saying I need an album out now, she says, fuck you. I'll give you an album when I'm ready. Now.

Most people are afraid. They're operating from fear. So when so and so tells their artists, I need an album next week through she okay, I don't want to get dropped out of blah blah blah blah. They run operate everything. Everything is operated and fucking fear. Right now, it's a fear based business. That's why it's it's it's in the condition that it's in. Now. You've got this new breed of kids that are coming in that are going back that like bands like Greta Van Fleet because they love Zeppelin,

you know. Now, I don't know Greta Van Fleet, I know Zeppelin, but I'm pretty impressed that those guys came into the picture during a time when rock and roll was very, very dead and no guitars, and they're like blew up and you know, and so what they did is reintroduced guitars, and so now there's guitars coming back. Albums are gonna come back, Bob. I'm telling you, they're

coming back. Artists, rock stars are coming. Vinyl is here and very alive, and there's a lot of things going on there that a lot of people are are don't know about with vinyl. You know, labels are looking at vinyl right now as the ticket out of giving their artists something an edge. You know, it's like a fucking edge. It's a fucking album, dick head. You know that's what an album is. The album they're calling an album now the okay, would you consider yourself to be an optimistic

person or a pessimistic person? I am fucking both, man, I'm like the most I am. I am both because I love music and I have to believe that it's it's gonna be okay. And mind you, this is again, it's just my opinion. I mean, people could be listening right now, going what's she talking about? Sucking music is thriving in the best and there's so many great bands, and you're probably right, But in my world, I'm seeing it different. You and I are not looking at this

room the same at all. There's no there's it's impossible for you and I to see this room exactly in the same perspective, same point of you. We are looking and walking in life on a daily basis, seeing the exact same things very different. This is my perspective. My perspective is I see a very we're walking a very fine line right now of where we can go and if we don't raise the bar, and if we don't start telling these kids to raise the bar, because I'm

going to be that person. I'm gonna be the person that's telling people to raise the bar, that we need to be better. And you can laugh at me, or you can tell me that the bar is being raised, and that's great. You be that person to tell everybody everything's okay. But I'm gonna be telling everybody everything will be okay if we start raising the bar, if we start the Beatles are the Beatles, because no one's ever beaten the Beatles. We've only gone down and down and

down and down and down. You know, Oasis is the first band I ever saw that try to actually say they were better than the Beatles, and I fucking love them for that. I love those guys for that. What fucking alls? Okay, I think we've come to the end of the feeling we've known. We could literally go on forever. Thanks so much for talking to me until next time. That's Linda Perry on the Bob Left Sets podcast. Thank you.