Karla Bonoff

Carla Bonoff? She wrote songs on the Linda Ronstad album Hastened Down the Wind, and I moved to l a permanently. I was here a little bit before that, but permanently in the summer of seventy six, and I used to go to this record store which no longer exists, called Grammy and Granny Records in Westwood and one of the benefits of living in Los Angeles as you could buy promo records people cash them in. This is what it was,

still vinyl before CD. I get a few tales about selling my promo c d s. But in the bin I saw Carla's debut album. Okay, I still have it with the price stick around it because I kept all my vinyl. It could have been it was either a dollar ninety nine or two forty seven. And I came home and I played it. I loved it so much. I literally went back and bought all the copies and gave them to my friends. And I can tell you story after story about turning people on to the first album.

In any event, Carla, glad to have you on the show. Thank you. It's a privilege to be here. So how did you get those tracks on the ron Stad album? Oh? Wow, there's a lot of history. I mean, that's what the shows about. Well, it really goes back to Kenny Edwards. Okay, tell my audience who Kenny Edwards was an incredible musician and songwriter. But he began in the Stone Ponies with Linda Ronstep. So when Linda came out from Tucson with Bobby Kimmel and they got together with Kenny and they

formed that band. So I met Kenny right after the Stone Ponies broke up and we started our own band with Wendy Waldman and myself and Andrew gold Um called Brindle. So we got signed to A and M. We made a record they dropped us, which fell apart, and Kenny and Andrew went back and started playing in Linda's band. Right about the time she was really hitting it big

with that heart like a will. So Kenny would go off on these tours and I would I was writing, and I would give him cassettes and you know, hey, maybe just put this in Linda's person Um, nothing would ever happened really with it. And then when one day called me up, he goes. You know, I decided maybe if I just picked up a guitar and played the song for her myself, um, and she would hear it, and he did, added a sound check, he played her Lose Again and she totally loved it, and they learned

it right there and it was in the show. And so they came back to play the universal lamphitheater. She was playing like twelve nights. That was the day before. There was a roof before they down, and yeah, that was a fun that was a fun run. But that's when she started doing them. So that's lose Again, did three? She did if He's Ever? So she was getting ready to make the next record. I guess um hastened down the wind. So then then she asked me if I had more so. Then I just started, well, how about

this one? How about this one? So that's how it ended up being three once I think her mind kind of opened up to the idea. Then she then all of a sudden it was three. And it was kind of weird for me because I was getting ready to make my own record too. I didn't have a whole lot of other songs. Those are my good songs, so we can talk about that. But I ended up recording them all those same three songs, right right, And I

think your versions are much better. Usually the person who wrote the song add something extra that someone does not. But without making it about Ronstad, how did you feel, I mean, this is a totally different era. There are many fewer records out. Linda Ronstadt one of the biggest acts in the country, and she's going to record your tracks. In an addition, you're gonna get paid. So what was

going on in your brain? Well, I mean it was huge for me because I'd been, you know, playing with my sister and playing in Brindle and playing the troubadour, and I mean I've been out there for ten years really, from the time I was fifteen till maybe twenty five. When this happened just you know, not going to college, trying to make a living. So it was like an

overnight for me, like three songs on that album. You're right, I mean not only the recognition, but the fact that I would suddenly probably make like a serious amount of money from Okay, So how long did it take to see a check after the album came out? Trying to remember it takes a while, I know, That's why I'm asked you. Yeah, probably a year. Okay. So when the

money came in, did you treat yourself to anything? Well, I actually had a business manager who was also Linda's business manager, and he said to me, you you need to either buy a house or invest your money or do something because otherwise Uncle Sam's just gonna take it. And he was a great business manager. And so I bought my first house, which I lived in for twenty one years. So where was that house in the Hollywood Hills? Okay? And now you live in Santa Barbara. I think that's

a well known fact. We're not going to give the street. Um, did you move from Hollywood Santa Barbara? Was there some place in between? Now? I moved straight from twenty one years in the Hollywood Hills to Santa Barbara. What was the decision there? The decision, I think was the fact that A the music business was not really you know, centered here, and I was touring mostly, and I realized I can't fly from anywhere. I don't have to live

here to go on the road. And I think also the traffic had gotten so bad that I wasn't leaving my house. I was stuck in my house except for maybe these these hours between eleven and one where you could go out. And and I just went, why am I doing this? I don't need to live here. I don't have a job here. Um, And I was tired. You know, I'm born and raised here. I wanted to live somewhere different, never lived. So how many years ago did you move to bar Twenty years ago? Now? Okay,

and that worked for you. You were glad about the position. I wish I'd done it sooner. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're born and raised here where West l A West? I mean for those of us, I literally live in West l A. So we're in West l A right New u c. L A. On a street called Warner Avenue. Okay, I don't I can't I know the street. Where is that? You know, we're a Hillgard Avenue of course, so it's Hillgard comes down to Wilshire, it turns kind of into Warner exactly for those people

don't know. It just really right up beside U C. L A. So in Westwood, which, of course, in the seventies was the hippest place in l A. And I was a ghost top really well. When my parents bought this house in the you know, in the fifties or forties. Um, you know, it was a little college town. It was a sleeping college town. You know, they wanted to live there because it was quiet. Okay, let's stay there. Your

parents or your father did what for a living? My father was a radiologist, okay, and so was my grandfather. My grandfather, Um, was the first radiologist in Los Angeles, actually first radio has doctors didn't specialize then, they were general practitioners. So he went to USC and and actually specialized in being a radiologist. This is your grandfather, my grandfather, and and your father followed in his footsteps. And okay,

so it's married to your mother. Did your parents stay married? Yeah? Okay? And how many kids too? I have an older sister, an older sister, what's she up to or what it was her life about? Um? She and I played music together a lot and starting as teenagers. Um. And then she decided she didn't really like it that much, so she went back to school and got a PhD at U c l A. And what in history of religions? And what was your career if if there was one

after the PPD ended up teaching college. Okay, so you're there. And did your parents make you take piano lessons? And yeah, yeah, every young Jewish kid has certainly did. So what age did you start at? Young? Like five six seven? We had a very strict Russian piano teacher and that was your parents idea, not your idea, okay? And did you practice? Yeah?

I did, but it was she expected a lot like two three hours of practicing reading music, And so I developed a definite distaste for it, and and finally rebelled and went, I don't want to do this anymore. After how many years, after three or four? I think by the time I was eight or nine, I was no, I don't want to do that. And did you give up music completely playing music at that point? No? I played clarinet in school. Yeah, and like yeah, in sixth

grade orchestra. Do you think you could still play it? I don't know, okay, sexually. And when you go to school where? I went to school at University Elementary School, which was part of u c l A, which was kind of an experimental grammar school, very liberal arts oriented, lots of music and art. Um. I love that. Um, it's on the campus of u c l A. Really, And then I went into public school, which was horrible

from where where was high school? University High School right in West l A, where a lot of musicians actually went both before and after you. Okay, so you're in your house now. It's hard for me to view this through the eyes of a woman, But in my era were very similar ages. Um, you got a transistor radio, okay, which was a really big deal. And when you were a boy, you listened to sports first. So were you a radio listener? Were you addicted in that way? Yeah?

I remember having that transistor radio and listening to kf W B B Mitchell read. But B Mitchell Read late at night would play things like the Stone Ponies. That's where I was hearing music like that. Okay, But what you're I mean, let's let's go back before when the Beatles hit in sixty four. Are you listening to the radio. Are you up on popular music? Or is that a

turning point? Oh? Yeah, I was listening to all of it. Basically, Beatles and Motown on transistor radio was a k h J. I'm trying to remember definitely, But before that, because they're really was Beatlemania where a beat you a big music popular music fan. Well, I'm trying to place my years, but I mean, what would what would have been before that? I think, well, that was like the Four Seasons, the Beach Boys. Yeah, I mean whatever was on the radio,

we were absorbing. So you were definitely hooked on the radio. And at what point does it cross your mind, WHOA, I want to do this for a living? Well, see that's a guitar lessons and that kind of well a little bit slower, right. You gave up the piano after throw, I gave a piano. I played violin and clarinet, and I finally picked up a nylon string. That's how it all started, a harmony nylon string from Westwood Music, and um, you know it just sort of rang about for me.

I got that and so when in this history because we had a nylon string guitar in the house that we didn't play during the folk era prior to the Beatles, and then after the Beatles we started playing that and then went to electrics whatever. So did you get your folk guitar to play Beatles songs? Or we were playing you know, we were playing folk music, folk music, Train Puff the Magic Dragon right right right. It was Peter Paul and Mary was sort of early music. Yeah, and

five Miles and all that other stuff. So you got the guitar from Westwood Music? Howd you learn how to play it? I ha got guitar lessons, but I taught myself a lot by ear. I remember just having the turntable and like putting on the Peter Paul and Mary record and just you know, learning how to play it. I just could figure it out. Okay. At this point, do you feel okay? You said you played music with your sister. Was she playing the guitar too? We were

both playing Okay. But outside of the house where you had did you have a lot of friends who were also into playing music? No? No, this was my I would just get my school work done and then go into my own head and that was my escape. So so you were really dedicated. You would really sit there with the records, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. It was the only thing that held my attention really, and maybe because public

school was so bad, we didn't have great teachers. But and then I was fortunate enough I kind of outgrew this guitar teacher. I had Prayabe when I was thirteen or fourteen, and she said, I don't think I can teach you anything else. I think you need to go to the fellow that taught me. Who was this guy Frank Hamilton's. It was in the Weavers and taught right around the corner from here. Were in downtown Hollywood now Barney Kestle's Music World, which is at the Yucca and

Vine Street I heard about. I've never been there before my time. L It was a music store and then little cubicles with guitar teachers. So Frank, of course was just what an amazing talent. And you talk about learning the real folk music, you know, he was teaching me those arrangements from the Weavers. That's where I learned the waters wide and Okay, so you govern the guitar lesson traditionally half an hour you call them. You really practice.

This was your thing, okay, and at what point a do you think, well, this could be a career path. You know, what happened was I started I don't know why, I just started writing melodies and music. I wasn't writing lyrics. My sister was really into poetry, so and we were both playing acoustic guitar. So we decided, I think this was right about when Joni Mitchell's first came, right that we wanted to make music like that. So we started

trying to write songs like that. Okay. For those of us who grew up outside of Los Angeles, California was a dream. Okay. We had the Beach Boys, we had all these other things. We watched all the shows made in southern California. Now, were you here realizing that you were at the epicenter of the scene, that the acts were in Laurel Canyon and you go see in the clubs, etcetera. You know, when you're in the middle of it, you

don't you don't see that. Of course, looking back now, it's like insane when I think about all the music I could go here, and what was happening at the troubudaor I mean, it's crazy that we could see Joni Mitchell play for two weeks, two sets at night in the Tribute or a hundred and fifty people in there. But I mean it never occurred to me. What's it like growing up in somewhere in Michigan. I had no idea. Okay, so you're playing guitar with your sister. At what point

do you start going out to hear in music? Well, we were already going out to hear music. I mean we were going to the Tributor every chance we could get to. Okay, people, this was now you had to driver's license or how did you get that? She did? She would drive us. Okay, So you would go to the Troubadoor. Where else would you go? We went to the Tribuador God. We would go to the Santa Monica Civic.

They were concerts there. There was this um place called the Valley Music Theater that turned into a Jehovah's Witnesses that had like we see the Doors and Jefferson Airplane. There. There was a place that Cheetah on the Venice Pier that had like the same kind of acts. Um the Hullabaloo here in Hollywood. UM had a revolving stage that would go around and they would switch the band so it'd be like Neil Diamond and then the stage would turn. It would be Iron Butterfly, and then the stage would

turn and it would be UM the Sunshine Company. I mean all those groups. And okay, so you went with your sister, But was there a whole group of girls who would go with these shows that you would know or just the two of you? It was just us, but we met people. We met other people like in the Troubadour who were doing the same thing we were doing. And there were a lot of people on those Monday nights. Okay,

well from my audience talked about Monday night. UM. During the week the Troubador had national acts like James Taylor, Joni Mitchell. Earlier than that, we went to see people like Joe and Eddie and Buffy st re right right right, you know, Um Joe and Eddio from Toronto. Bob ezbrind goes on to me all the time I had had a dial them up on the internet. I've never even heard of them. Yeah, so there were acts like that. I remember Tim Buckley was of course one of the

great albums. Yeah, and Robert Klein would open for Tim Buckley. Really they always would have comedians. So I'm trying to think of all the people we would go see everything that was happening there. Um. So you're in terms of money, you're in my family. If it was had to do with the arts, there was unlimited money. And in terms of going to the show, where did the money come from? Your allowance or your parents? Dug into the roll and thought about that. I guess it wasn't expensive to go

to the True Door. It probably was like six dollars or five dollars to get in there. I think we never had any trouble getting in there. Okay, so it's Monday night is hoot night. Monday night was whot night. Um. And maybe there were four or five slots in that you could get on, just to be clear, because I was this is before my time, so there were only four or five acts a night. Well, I think that the record companies maybe would put acts on for just

those of us who were connected to anything there. The way you had to do it was you had to line up at the box office, um, and wait for them to open the window and then if you were one of the first four to sign up, you could get on. So I would literally cut school. I would climb over the fence at Uni, go to the troubador and then sit there in that little alcove in the window and and get my sister and I on to that thing, you know. And it was terrifying. I was

so afraid doing them. But I mean, Jackson Brown would be doing them more every now and then somebody like Neil Young would just come and doing for fun. I mean. And in those days that the you know, the bar was on the inside and record company people were there, and it was scary because a lot of people would see you. Okay, so do you remember what year you first appeared? Um? I was sixteen, so probably, um, sixty nine maybe, Okay, so you're there. Are you any good

the first time? I don't think so. I mean, I think my sister and I had some promise we could play, and I think I was writing some interesting music, but um, I wasn't singing well and we were very young. Really, you would you bill yourself as the daughters of Chester p What does that mean? My dad was Chester Paul bon Off. So we came up with that name for because Lisa and Carlos seemed stupid. So okay, so how many times do you do that? At the Troubadoor? We

did them a lot. We also went down to Pasadena and did the ice House. We did that. There was a little restaurant in Santa Monica called the Attica. We would get up and play there. Um. One of our very first I told the story the other night um jobs that we got was at this club called Artie Fat Buckles, which was at Sunset and Gardener, down some little steps and we got hired. And the people that hired us said, you'll be opening for these two guys. Their name is Long Branch Penny was and we were

like who Um, So we walking in there was JD. Southern, Glenn Fry twenty three and nineteen. Now you're there and you're having these Are you I hate to use the modern term, but I will anyway. Are you networking with people? Are you saying are you just waiting for things to come to you? I don't think anybody was thinking I wasn't. We were just excited to be playing there, and I think to be just in the environment. Um. When Jackson would get up and play a new song. It would

just be amazing to me. I mean, I don't think I was really thinking about getting a record del yet. I was just feeling whether that could be something I could actually do. Um. We did ultimately make a demo for Electra. I still have a coffee of it. It's pretty My sister and I did. We got um. I went to school with Jim Densmore, who was John Densmore's younger brother, and some have the Doors of the Doors.

John got us an audition UM with David Andrew Ley. Yes, so we went in and they had us go in the studio and play our repertoire live just you know. So I actually have a tape of us playing that and laughing and being embarrassed. And we didn't get signed. But what do you remember what they said to not make a deal. He said that we needed to remember this, that we were too young and we needed to go out and live a little, and we were just we

were horrified. Okay, now what comes to time to go to college and you come from a family of radiologists, how does that go down? Not? Well? Not well? Um, they just said to me, we would like you to try to at least go. I got into u c l A. Um, go to college just for one semester, okay, but when did you decide you weren't going well, I didn't. I mean at this when we lost a little time here. Actually, my sister and I broke up because she wanted to go back to school. So I met Kenny Edwards. How um,

how I had my sister. Oh, here's how it happened. My sister and I decided we wanted to do transcendental meditation. So they had a big meeting at Royce Hall at u c l A. And it was a meeting to sort of learn about going up to Squaw Valley for a month with Marishi. So my sister and I went to this and I remember spotting this really handsome, tall guy walking up the aisle and I realized it was that's Kenny Edwards of the Stone Ponies. I mean to me, he was a rock star of course, of course, and um,

so that's how I met Kenny. Actually I did go to Squaw Valley and I well a little bit slower, right. So now you're at Royce, Saul, do you go up and introduce yourself? Now I didn't there but my sister and I signed up to go to this month long course with the Maharishi at Squaw Valley. I was sixteen or seventeen, she was nineteen. What did your parents say? They let us go? I'm sure quite why? And so you were there? How many people were in Squaw Valley

people and Kenny was one of them. And I spotted Kenny and I had my Martin guitar and I followed him around and convinced him that I could play the guitar as well as Joni Mitchell. So was he giving? Was he giving you the time of day? You know, he had just gotten out of the Stone Ponies, and I think he really wanted to focus on his spirituality and he was not really I don't know. He wasn't focused on me at least not at that point. But ultimately there was a romance with Kenny. How much longer

after you meet him? Does? Um? He went off to India because he was really deep. He was deep into it and he wanted to become a teacher. So he went off to India. But when he came back, um, somehow we got together and he knew Wendy Waldman and Andrew Gold from another. I can't even remember how he knew them, but we all got together and decided to form a group. So our romance began and our group Brindle began, probably Candle, Oh God, Andrew thought up the name and he spelled it with a y because he

was such a Birds fan. So we just went, Okay, that sounds good. So it's got nothing to do with those dogs that are different colors, striped whatever. Okay, so you're forming a band because everybody's hanging out or you saying, we're going to form a band and we're going to get a deal and we're gonna make it. We were serious at that point. We wanted to get a deal and we wanted to make it, and we did get a deal. Okay, But before that, when did you decide

you didn't want to go to college. I think at that point, um, it was just becoming obvious to me. I went for one summer quarter and got seasoned D's and I was already so deeply in the music business at that point. Um. No, my parents were not happy about it, but I think I was lucky I found what I wanted to do, you know, And Okay, so you could at what point did you move out of the house when I was about eighteen, and what we you know, you're a musician. How you paying the rent?

How did we pay that? I moved in with Kenny and in a house that Andrew also lived in, and we rehearsed there and started our band. And so your parents, I'm down on this totally. In fact, they were like, if you're going to go do that, then leave your car here and we're not giving you anything. Um. I think they thought I would just turn around and come right back. But I'm not quite sure how we survived.

It was just amazing. We didn't need a lot of money then, right, that's differently, you can't make it a minimum wage today, whatever your money. We could ran a big house for two hundred dollars a month for all of us. And where was that house? Somewhere in West Ally. Yeah, okay, so you're living in the house. You form the group, so everybody in the group is living there. Wendy was not living there because she was living into Panka Canyon because she was married. So we three of us were

living there, but Wendy would come there. And how long after you formed the band did you get your deal with a and M. Somehow Wendy had met Chuck Plotkin. I'm not sure how she met Chuck, but Chuck got interested in us, and then he got us to deal at Day and M. And you made a complete record that didn't come out. We did. We made a record with Chuck and UM Chad Stuart producing, And what was the rationale for not releasing it? You know, I don't think they got us. We were two girls and two

guys writing songs. This is before Fleetwood Mac. It's just maybe, I mean, it really wasn't anything like that. I think we're on the wrong label. They had the Carpenters, they had UM, but they had Joe Cocker and Peter Frampton. Yeah. I think it was two things. I think they didn't understand what we were trying to do and we weren't really that great yet. I think we needed to make another record. Okay, so the record, even you would own that the record was not I think Wendy was the

closest to being ready to make the record. Um. I think that it was a little disjointed. Um okay, so now the records rejected. Does the band girl really break up? Not right away. We ended up going and playing a Top forty bar out by the airport called the Carolina Lanes, which was a nude room, a bowling alley, a rock and roll basically a biker bar, rock and roll club. Five sets a night like Top forty, and then we would intersperse our Brindle songs in there. Wednesday night was

hot pants night. Okay, so what you do on Wendy were hot pants? How about you? I don't think I could do it. But the cool thing about that was I had to play a lot. I learned to get strong as a player because we had to play all these Rolling Stones tunes and Carol King tunes, and so I had to learn all this stuff and play all the keyboard parts. And I mean it really actually was good for all of us. I think, um just getting strong as a musician, being able to play that much.

So how long does that gig last? It didn't last very long because I think ultimately Linda had guys go and play out in her band, and for us that was like, you know, and Wendy got signed to Warner Brothers, so it kind of fell apart. They went and worked for Linda. I mean, Kenny was making nine dollars a week, which was like, oh my god, we started saving money. Okay, but you were suddenly the odd person out. You didn't have a solo deal and you weren't with Linda. I

would think that was would be depressing. Well I was. I was Kenny's girlfriend. So for me, what was interesting about that time when I got to go out on the road a lot and kind of watch Linda and learn from Linda, see what it was like to be on the road beyond the bus. And you know, she really taught me a lot just watching what she had to go through, just watching her do her makeup, watching her figure out what to wear. So you're on the road with your boyfriend and Linda and you're learning all

these lessons from Linda. Yeah, and how long does that go on? I mean I didn't do it all the time, but I you know, I would do it on and off. And I mean it was really exciting. She was really gigantic star. Yeah and so and it was I remember when they when Kenyan Andrews first started going out with her, they were sharing a room. I mean, so they really started right at that base of things. And when they came back and made the record that had You're No Good and all that stuff on it. That was really

the big record for her. But they had learned all that stuff on the road and then I mean, I remember when they were flying on the Concorde and I think, caviare you know? So it changed changed, right, It's almost hard to comprehend. But okay, you're on the road some now you're at home, you're writing songs. Yeah. At that point I really just had, you know, to figure out what I was going to do. So I just kept trying to get better as a writer. And how did

you get your deal with Columbia. I actually got my deal playing a Monday night at the Troube door. Um I started doing those alone. UM Norman Epstein was managing me and trying to get me gigs wherever we could, but we would still do those Monday nights and UM I played one of those. I think Linda had already decided to do a couple of songs and I was at the Tributor and this fellow, Peter Philbin came up to the dressing room and said, I just want to

congratulate you. I love your music. I'm sure you're signed to Asylum or whatever, and and we was like, no, we're not signed. So he had just come out to be an an or guy. He had not signed anybody. He was brand new. So he brought me to Columbia. But it was a long road because, um, I don't think they trusted him a because he was new. So they made me go to New York to the big black Rock building and actually audition and for all of the all of the people, like in one of those rooms,

one of those conference rooms with an upright piano. And I've never been to New York, and I mean it was terrifying. I remember I was staying in this hotel and I woke up. We got there at night and I looked back to the window and I went, why is it so dark out there? There's nothing out there. I didn't have any idea. I was looking at Central Park.

So yeah, in the morning, I had to go his conference room with I was like Bruce lun Ball and all those people, Yeah, and just play like on the stupid piano and played the guitar, had a little dressed on, and I remember they just thanked me and we left. And then that night Peter took us to dinner and I said, well, have you heard anythings like no, and

still nothing. Nothing. The next morning, nothing and I went, okay, I'm getting out of here, and I just I think I met up with Kenny on the road and it was like a couple of days and then finally my manager call and they said, well, they've decided to saw you. You must have been elated. I was. And we were also talking to Clive Davis too, so I can't remember the time frame of that. But I also had to go to the Beverly Hills Hotel to the bungalow and play for Clive on the piano, and I think we

were balancing both of those. Thank God, you didn't sign with Clive. Well, you know, I didn't sign with Clive because I remember I played him someone to lay down beside me, which was something I knew even then I was really proud of. And he started trying to rewrite it exactly and I said to Norman, I said, you know what, I can't do that, you know, because that's what's going to happen, like with everything. Um, so that's

why we didn't do that. Okay. So one of the amazing things is about about your music is the insightful lyrics. Let's start with someone to lay down beside me even though it's not real, okay, which is the line? How did you come up with that? I don't know, I really don't know. I wrote the music first, and I had the music for a long time, and I knew that was that it was good, and I just couldn't

come up with any lyrics. And one night, I don't know, I watched a TV show and I was just walking around and I just sat down and it came out. So it was one of the things very fast once you were in the mood right, and of the tracks on the first album where they all done that fast when the time came, or were some eatd out over time. The you know the way what would happen for me is I wouldn't write very much, but when I would write, it would happen fast. Um, so you were waiting for

inspiration to hit you. Yeah, And lyrics were always hard for me. I could write are so phenomenal. I mean, you know, if he's ever near, they say just once in life you find someone right that's right, but love so hard to find in this state of mind. I hope I'll know if he's ever hear there's so much wisdom. I mean, I'm quoting off the top of my head forty year old lyrics and becau as they mean that much to me. So I'm wondering, you know, the process

of coming up with that. Maybe it's quick, but what kind of space are you in to have so much insight? You know? It's mischief. You know when I look back on being twenty three or four or however old I was when I wrote those things, and I don't think I was all that. I think it was very subconscious and just stream of conscious. I wasn't really thinking about it. It was just I think I was accessing just some

part of my brain that was pure and insightful. Well that's one of the fascinating things about all these musicians. You know, we laugh at teenager musicians at this point, but a lot of the people were very young, certainly Jackson Brown when he started writing whatever. And I can listen to some of those records now in my sixties and they finally understand them, okay, having lived all this time, and I say, how did these people come up with

this in sight? Like at that age? He wrote these days when he was sixteen, So how does that happen? I mean, that's mysterious to me because obviously it's sixteen. What could he know right exactly? But even you, I mean, you're talking about in terms of relationships. Um, you know

Rose in the garden. You know, about having a relationship and sometimes you have to let them go that you know that didn't come from something in your life or something I was trying to remember that, you know, I think so, I mean, I think, Um, I don't know, you know, that first batch of songs for me just came. I felt like they were a gift. It just kind of came to me from, you know, some other wonderful place. You know. I still feel like that. I don't know,

you know, I don't. I was never able to go I think I'm going to write a song about this, or come up with a title like some people will come up with a title and write a song. I could never intellectualize about writing like that. And that's why I think I'm not prolific, because I don't really know how to. Yeah, but a couple of things, I mean, you know, isn't it always love that you know makes you cry, breaks your heart, but you wouldn't have it any other way. I mean, these are songs that really

helped me through things. I mean, you know there's some Jackson Brown lines to like, uh, you know, well without quoting those things at this particular point, this is not the kind of wisdom you find on a Kelly Clarkson are justin Bieber record. In addition, it's not the kind of wisdom you found back then, which I believe is one of the I mean, I remember, you know, I've

told people about that album. You know, in the nineties, back in the days of a O. L Chat, people said they're in the music as you gotta get this record and I'm not doing it. The both smoke up your ask. That's how much the record meant to me. So I have to believe you may not be revealing it, but beneath the surface you must be a study of humanity. You must be a student of humanity or have insight that the average person probably does not. Maybe, Okay, let's

let's stay with writing songs. Okay, your first album comes out. Okay, you're riding the coattails of Linda having covered your songs. So what's it like when your album finally comes out? Well, it was interesting. Um, there was some confusion obviously, because Linda's album had come out like six months before mine, and there were some similar musicians on the tracks too,

So um, I got a tour opening for Jackson. I did a short club tour, and then I got a tour opening for Jackson, and um, I had this moment where I was playing the songs and realizing these people think that I'm covering, of course, and it took me about three or four nights to go, oh my god, I'm going to have to how people I wrote these They don't know. UM. So that was kind of horrifying in a way. So there was some of that confusion.

But once I once I talked a little and explained to people, and they were really on my side and it was actually pretty wonderful. UM. And people often asked me like, are you sorry? You gave Linda your best songs? But if I hadn't, I don't know, you know what, people have noticed me as much. I mean, would my have first album done as well? Would people have paid attention to it? Maybe not? You know, so when you went out on the road, you go out alone. No,

I had a band on that first tour. Yeah, okay, so you okay, you do that with Jackson, what's the next step. Well, I did a couple of tours with Jackson, and then of course you're in that Columbia Records time thing where it's like, well, you gotta make another record, so you come back. It took me ten years to make that first one. I'm on the road for the first time, and then you come home and you want to breathe, and they want you to make another record.

And I really had maybe one or two songs, and I was like, oh my god, you know, now I have what six months to do this, So it was pretty terrifying trying to you know, really then trying to crank stuff out. I mean I did it, um, and I had some help. Actually at the time, I was dating Cameron Crowe and he was so young. He was so much because I certainly know Cameron, I certainly know Nancy Wilson and I don't, but I didn't know that

was part of your history. Well it was brief. But he was so disciplined and so good about writing every day, um, because I think he was working on fast times. Then it was before that when that was becoming a book. Um that he was such a good influence on me because I was trying to write Restless Nights, and he would write every day, and so I would write every day, and um, I lived like a mile down the road from him, and it really helped me focus and get

that record room. But let's stop just for one second. How does it end with Kenny? Oh? How did it end with Kenny? I don't know. It just kind of fell apart, you know, the days of those days of Hollywood and craziness and drugs and you know, it's just, you know, we were together for nine years and it just kind of we were great friends, but we just are. Romance kind of disappeared. So we stayed friends for up until a day. Okay, So how do you meet Cameron Crowe?

I met Cameron Crowe at the Universal Amphitheater at probably at one of Linda's shows. Outside um, I think he introduced himself. He was still writing for Rolling Stone, right, Yeah, So okay, you know these are the perks of being famous. Any other perks of being famous? Oh god, I don't know. You mean meeting people like that? Meeting people opportunities, you know, once you're a known quantity, not that I don't know. I mean, maybe you get into first class occasionally on

an airplane. That doesn't even happen anymore. Okay, So Cameron is very disciplined. So your disciplined and you crank out the album. Are you happy with the album? I was happy with most of it. I mean some of it. That album to me has the water is wide, it has um only a fool it had. I'm trying to think one of their songs were on that, But I thought that was a pretty good album. It had trouble again, um when you walk in the room the letter, So I mean it wasn't you know. I think my first

album is still probably my best album. But for how fast I had to crank that one out, I think it was okay. Okay, Now being on the inside of the belly of the beast, Um, what was the label's reaction into what degree was that record successful in their eyes and your eyes commercially? You know, it was always so hard for me to tell what they thought. It was such a big record company and there were so many big artists Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson and other

things that they were focused on. I don't really ever think that that I got the shot. Maybe that I should have had. I think they tried. Um, it's hard to say, you know. I mean I think the production maybe, you know, I don't know why there weren't more hits on some of those things. I think, oh, baby don't go with on that too. I think there were hit songs on that album. Maybe we didn't produce them as hits. I feel like there should have been hits. Um, And

is that record promotion? Is that the record itself? I mean it's hard to hindsight when you try to look at that and go, well, why couldn't they make Trouble again it or Baby Don't go it? I mean, did we not make the right record? I don't know. You got to deliver a third album it was even harder. Yeah, and then you they the so called work track was a cover first, right. Um. Glenn Fry is the one

that played me personally. Um. I was at his house and I don't know if you know, Glenn had a great collection of obscure R and B stuff, so um, he played me the Jackie Moore version of that from seventy seven or something, and I remember saying to him, Wow, what a cool song. I'm surprised nobody's made that a hit. And he said, yeah, I was thinking I should send that to Bonnie Rate. I was like, wait just a

minute there. So, um, that's how that came about. Glenn produced part of that album, and then he and I had a falling out. Well that's good, he's just he's so we could talk. What was the falling out about? I never could quite figure it out. Um, Glenn was an interesting person and volatile and um, you know, once Glenn decided he was not into something, then he was done. Um. I don't really think it was anything that you could

point to specific. But so Kenny Cannon came in and took up the the last half of that and help me make the rest of that record. So it was it was a tough album for me, Okay, and then that album comes out and you're back on the road and what is it like? It was pretty fun actually, because I had a really good band. I had Kenny and Andrew in my band and Mike Bots on drums and a young keyboard player, Michael Rouff on keyboards. So we had a great band and did a lot of

fun shows. So and I had a hit record of some sort. Um. I also got to go out and open for James Taylor on a summer tour, which you know, James is my hero. So being able to watch James every night and open for James was that was a treat for me. And okay, that's cycle Lens. Then you don't make a record. What happens? What does Columbia say? Well, that's when the ship kind of hit the fan for me, because I think I came home from that and that album and all the things that kind of happened, and

I just got really depressed. Um and actually, looking back now, clinically depressed at that point in my life, I, Um, I just didn't want to make any more records. I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to write, UM, I didn't. I think I was confusing my personal happiness with my professional happiness, Like why aren't I happy in my personal life with you know, this success? And so I kind of just rebelled against everything and I basically stopped,

you know, doing anything. So ultimately I got dropped by Columbia. My manager left and went to work for a record label. UM, so I had no record label, UM and I just it took me a couple of years. I was in a lot of therapy trying to get my life together. Um, I learned that it takes medication to get out of depression and really didn't exist then. Um. So, no matter how much therapy I had, I couldn't seem to pull

myself out of that. And I didn't really come out with prose Act till about eighty eight or nine, and I finally I was at a therapist and she said to me, you know, I said, look, I'm good. When I leave here, I'm good for thirty minutes and then I get home and it's just I'm right back there. And she goes, you know, I think maybe you need to be evaluator. And I went to somebody and they said, I'm interested who you went to? Remember? Well, I went

towards psycho. Yeah yeah, but was he U c l A. I went to somebody U c l A. We ultimately got medical trouble. That's why his interest was the same. They ask you all those questions, are you hopeless? Do you know? Do you lose interest in things? And there was a checklist then, um, and she said, well, I think you need to be on some medication. I was like, fine, just something and it was mind blowing to me. Within three days of taking medication. I woke up and I went, oh,

my god, is this how normal people feel? Do you remember what the medication was? It was prozac. I didn't wake up with this feeling of like dread and hopelessness. Um, when you wake up like that, you can't work, you can't write, you can't create. Okay, so let's go back. So do you still take prozac? No? Not anymore? How long did you take it? For quite a while? I mean I had, you know, probably ten fifteen years. And

how you decided to go off? I just started weaning myself off of it, as it wasn't with a professional Yeah. I think that once my life got back together and things started to turn around again and I felt pretty good and just I just experimented with it and I was able to to stay off of it. Other people my family and not the case. I think it's very genetic. My mother was very depressed. My grandmother apparently couldn't get

out of bed and dress herself. I hear those things about my great grandmother, So I think it's passed down through the maternal side of my family. Um, I watched my mother, I mean, as a kid, certainly going through it. So I'm lucky that there was something for me and I was able to kind of get what about your sister, same thing for her? And so, but if you look at it externally, if you live in Santa Barbara and you live alone, Yeah, you live alone, that sounds like

it could be depressing. Yeah. Well, but I mean I stopped. I stopped taking medication along before I moved up there. Okay, but I'm just talking about what I guess I should ask a question. Since you stopped taking the medication, do you have episodes of depression. I've had one or two, but they're really more about something specific, which is man to Jamal, not this other kind of low grade thing that you have no reason for having. Let's do not functional,

let's go back. Okay. So, but at the time you've been on the road, everything was not perfect when you started to sink into this depression. So do you think the triggers were there? Yeah? I think that I wanted a personal life too. I want to be happy, I want to be in a relationship. I wanted all this

other stuff and I didn't have any of that. It seemed like I had this music thing, and maybe I was confused about what I thought that would bring to me, and I think that was the ugly realization, which is I'm a big believer in that. I mean, you know yours, but generally speaking, I find that a lot of acts, you know, are not whole emotionally, and they ultimately believe that, you know, music will save them, and when the music can't save him anymore, they can't write it other hit record.

Now that is not your case. You ultimately wrote great stuff off that, But I find that a lot of time people say, well, how come they can't write anywhere they were in a different space. Yeah, I think, I don't know. I think when I was younger, I was hungry to get away from my family growing up and to be a different kind of a person and to prove that. There was a lot of proving I can do this. And then once you've proven it in a way and you've had some success, um, then you kind

of go, okay, well now what you know? So I did that? Okay? So you say, now what, you've made enough money that you didn't have to worry about money temporarily? Not really okay, but you know that to duality, you're depressed, and then you get depressed because you're not working and it gets worse, and then you get to press because you don't have any money, right, so then you have to do something. Just basically what happened to me was it got so bad I was going to lose my house.

I was like, all right, I gotta pull this out somehow, I gotta do something. So what did you do? I think I just did whatever I could. I tried to write songs for movies. Um, I got lucky on I met a fan who was writing, who was a music supervisor for Miami Vice, and I got to write a song for one of those shows, and that led to making some demos for a record label, and just stuff started happening again. Okay, so then ultimately you make a record for Danny Goldberg. How does that come together? Um?

Jeff Hyman, who was a big fan of mine, UM, was a and R for Danny Goldberg, and I think he sought me out, and Um, I had a bunch of songs at that point, I'd put a few together and that's how I got signed there. Okay, ultimately, when it's all said, because the album label ultimately went to Funked and before you were on Columbia Good experience or bad experience on gold Castle. It was good, really. I mean, I think that was kind of a weird time the

early eighties a singer songwriters. The music was changing, and so I don't think it was as easy of a time for me or for a label like that. But there was this whole um radio format, the Wave, which saved me because they would play all this jazz stuff and then they would play a few vocal things. So they played two songs from that album a lot, and that really kind of remember what two songs they were. Yes,

it was New World and Way of the Heart. Okay, because this album is a real return to form, obviously made on a budget as opposed to you know, working for Columbia. But you know, goodbye my friend. I remember writing about that on nine eleven. Okay, that's certainly a great song and the best part of you. That's got a great sound on it. Okay, still be getting over you. Wow. I'm someone takes a really long time to get over people,

if I ever get over them. So that was there, and you know, it's just one great track after another, the one you mentioned, New World and all my Life and tell me why. I mean, it's a surprise because most people have been away cannot recapture the heights. But this was something you said, Well, I it was on a major label, maybe it would have been promoted to

the point would be as successful as the previous albums. Well, I feel like if I hadn't lost those years and I had made that album for Columbia, maybe, um, it would have been different. Um. You know, Mark Oldenberg produced that and he did a beautiful job. Unfortunately, that was the time of the drum machine. So, um, you know, we would like to go back and read something. Well, you know that's one of the other things. Is even there somebody you know the new Hosier track, it's got

a drum machine on and go. That's I mean, can we can we get rid of that? Okay? So you put out that album, okay, and that's kind of the end of the new material, right, So what does that sell us? I don't know. You know, um, I have a couple of new songs, but you know, I've just kind of I don't know. It's hard for me. It's hard for me to be motivated to do it, I think,

especially in this climate. Well that's my question. You know, now you can spend all the time and make the record and ultimately fine, it's it's over in a day. You put it out and get the bank and that's it. So is that the motivating it is for me? I mean I think what CITs now are something to sell on the road, right, and maybe someone will play it somewhere on a folk show or something. But so that because I don't just do it because I gotta do it and I gotta right and I'm not one of

those people. It's hard for me. I mean, it's hard to make a record. It's a lot of work. Um what about the concept of getting a publisher because you know your skill level is at the A level and theoretically writing a song that could be covered by somebody else. Maybe I don't really know how that works these days. Um, well, you publish your own songs, who administers them? I do, okay? So you do everything yourself. You're not with you know,

because they have these administrators like Cobalt. I mean there's different sides of publishing, but they have you know, Cobalt in downtown based on technology where they say they can find all this money overseas, etcetera. You haven't explored that, well, I have a great business manager who they administer that and they take care of that stuff for me. So I don't know if to find out, I think you

should explore that. Not that the business manager shouldn't get paid, okay, but it's not like the old days with one guy can go to meet him and you know, collect all the money, etcetera to have those meetings. And it's of course there's certain publishers who work you know, who worked tracks to what degreeed people are open to that you'd have to meet with people. Okay. So if you're not the type of person who needs to write music, what

is your life about today? Well, I'm on the road a lot um with Nina Gerber, my great guitar player. So we've been touring a lot um. So I do that. Um usually weekends we do weekend wyor Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. UM. I do have this new CD, right, we'll get to that. We'll get to that in a minutum. And I live in a beautiful place. I you know, I live on an acre and I have gardens, and I have lots of friends, and I don't deal with traffic, and um,

you know it's good. I don't know, you know, if I made a record, what like you say, what it's over in a day, right, right, it's hard. So let's go back. So now you've reached the pitnacle. You've had a hit record, you had lit a rod stack cover your records, you had a major label deal, and you also say you woke up one day and your personal life was not living up to snuff. In your mind all these years later, any regrets anything you would have

done differently knowing we can't. But as we're talking about well, I think, you know we were talking about this. I think if I were I wish that I had had someone smart enough around me to say, you know, this time in the in the music business, it's like being an athlete. You probably got about ten years where you really have your opportunity and don't worry about anything else, just to go for it because you can do all this other stuff later. And I wish that I hadn't

been so naive about that. I realized that I had a lot of opportunity, and obviously the mental stuff made it harder because I was not feeling good. But I regret that I didn't really you know, when I kind of had it in the palm of my hand. I didn't really go for it. And then what about I mean this is, you know, I've dedicated my life to a certain path and as a result, I got married. My ex wife said she tricked me into it, which

is a whole separate story. And I don't have any children, and it's a very different path from everybody else, and I'm willing to own that, although that forces career issues to be much more important than if you have children. So do you have any regrets you didn't go the other way get married to have children. Yeah, a little bit, But I think I probably did the right thing. I think I probably wasn't going to be a great mother. I wouldn't be I would have had to change everything.

I wouldn't have been able to be on the road. I think if I had a kid, I wouldn't have been able to leave my kid. So I think I would have ended up quitting anyway. I don't think that I was someone that could do both. And did Lisa have kids? I have two beautiful nieces. Okay, so let's go back to the new album. The album is very interesting because there covers of your own songs. There's cover of Jackson Brown song, why don't you tell the audience

about your new album? Well, actually, the reason this I even started at all was I was thinking, you know, I have all these songs, but I don't own the masters to them, so in order to license something, I don't really have any control. So it seemed like it would make a lot of sense for me to rerecord these things so I could own the masters, own them, I own all the publishing, and then I could control it. So it really was done initially kind of as a

business move. I thought it was because that's usually what people It was not meant to be a c D, so I just thought, I'm just going to go in cut these songs. Nina and I play them beautifully, and I think, actually, I think I'm singing better than I did a long time ago. So I thought we'd just take a weekend and just we'll just blow them all out. And it started to come out really good. So then I thought, well, I have all these tracks, maybe I should do something with it. So it kind of became

a CD. And then the Jackson Brown tune, I'm not sure a lot of people heard because it was on this other obscure tribute album. So I put that on there, and then I went in and cut a song of Kenny's as well. Um, and that's so you know, at least it's something okay. But if you read the credits, the producer engineer his memories thanks, so I googled and he died at some point. It was a pretty crazy time. I was just getting going on this. We had cut the tracks and he had a heart attack fort nine

and died. It took us a while to get back into the studio to do this. Then we had a huge wildfire and a mud slide. So all this stuff happened, but the CD did get finished with a great friend of Robinson, I Canbury, who's the one who passed away, Shaan mckugh, another great musician up in Santa Barbara. Because it's hard to drive down to l A and work on a record, let's just go back for a second. Was your house affected by the fires and the floods? Mine was okay? But all around me not good. Okay.

So the project, if you look at some of the recording dates, were done a couple of years ago, right, So when did you decide you were going to actually release it? As soon as I finished it. Yeah, so it just took us a while because of all those disasters to get it done. Really are the recording dates on there? I didn't even notice that. Well, there was something in there that indicated to me, maybe the fact he got credits and he died a couple of years ago,

which is what tipped me off. Okay, yeah, I think it's just by the time we gotta beything finished. Okay. So are you playing some of these tracks that are you have not previously recorded live? Yeah? Yeah, you mean like the Jackson song we play and karre Me Home, which is a new song we're playing that. We haven't played Kenny song yet. We need to do that. We have played it in the past. We play all of those and other ones too. So I mean I'm mostly

I'm touring, okay. But and then you sit there after the gig at the merch table and you signed the c ds, etcetera, and you find your way. It still wants the CDs. They do, they really do. And they want vinyl too. I'm gonna have to get some vinyl. They definitely want vinyl. It's an interesting thing though. I hear from acts that go on the road and so other things. You know, the stand the CD can't die.

That's what I'm selling. Although I think a lot of times when it's autographed, even vinyl, the people just want it. They don't even play it, but as long as they buy it. Now, going back to being on the road, a lot of people just stop. Okay, So at what point did you decide that you wanted to work? I mean, I don't think you've been working in the whole last twenty five years, have you. I've been working a lot.

Actually maybe there were sometimes I didn't in the eighties, but no, starting in the nineties, I've had agents and been on the road. Who's your agent now? My agent is s R O Artists and Madison, Wisconsin. Yes, okay. And you do you enjoy playing on the road or do you find that it's a you know, a drudge drudge. Once I'm up there, I enjoy it um obviously the traveling and flying and driving not so much. That's hard. So in a typical year, how many gigs do you play?

Probably thirty or forty, not a ton. Okay. Well, as I say, I've seen you a few times in the last couple of years, and I agree with you. You know, your voice is spectacular, which is not the case with most people as their careers have gone on. You know, there are a lot of people and I won't even mention. We just have to go see them, even selling tickets and you're there and you go, wow, this is bad. I know. I don't know. I guess it's just I'm lucky.

It must be a genetic thing or something. I haven't had to tune. You know, a lot of people tune their guitars down. I have to step. I haven't had to do that yet, which is good. Okay, we're all getting older by the minute. With the time you have left. Any specific goals, I don't know. You know, I'd like to figure out how to write some more songs, you know, without it being uh something that's difficult. You know. I

don't know. I know people really want them for me, and I feel bad about that because people ask me or please make a new record, please make a new record, and I don't know. I gotta get motivated, okay, the people who ask you to make new record, or fans or business people or other musicians. No, it's always fans. Like I put this out and we look on Facebook and people are complimentary and they love it, but they do go please, can we have a whole new CD

of new songs? Okay, the audience wants it. You find it difficult? But how much of that is what we talked earlier? Even if I make it, it's not like the old days. You know, we get all this promotion and you get all this uh you know mind share? Is it that? Or you find it difficult to write? I think it's said it's difficult for me to write. I think if I wrote easily and easy enough to record, and um, it's just not that easy for me. But I'm also not very disciplined. I don't sit down and

try well. It seems to me, is I'm analyzing you here that you're somewhat of a perfectionist and if the song is not going to be at the level of your other songs, you don't want to do it. Well, why would I want to do that? I don't want to make a shifty out. No, no, just hanging in there with to begin with, it's talking about my own expert my experience totally different. When I was in high school, Mr Harrity in the English class, he'd taken a sabbatical

which in public school. I don't know how that happened, but he took a year off and he came back and every morning, for five minutes, we had to write, and if you didn't have anything to say, you had to repeat the last three words. So I am a writer completely different from everybody else. Everybody is. The picture of a writer is well, I make a cup of coffee, I sharpened my pencils, and my goal is to get a page done a day. I could not be doing

it completely different. I got a record blasting arm standing the tar. I got inspiration. It's exactly how you say you wrote those earlier songs. Okay, it hit, and I got to be near the computer fast enough to do that. But I do know. I mean, I've done it long enough. I'm not gonna write anything terrible, just like you're not gonna run anything terrible. But you you're right it and you say, okay, this is not going to be at ten. You know you can see it veering as you do.

But two things happen. One, you never know what will resonate with the audience. You know, when you hit in eleven, you're done, and you go, this is just great, and you'll hear it from people. But even if you have a seven or eight using you know this one to ten scale, somebody resonates. And the point is, I hate to admit it. You know a lot of times you get warmed up or I had a couple of times. I haven't been in such great space myself the last couple of weeks, and I said, well, I want to

write to make myself feel better. And I was out skiing, and by time I'm done skiing, I'm not in the mood. Okay. Finally I said, I'm just gonna start writing because I'm in a bad mood. And all this stuff for the last four days came out that I didn't even know it was going to come out. Okay, Now you have to want to do it. I mean, I think the nature of being creative person is to be to a degree ill adjusted, and the creativity is a way of connect thing with people. And you know two things. One,

when you connect with people feels really good. But this is analogous to your point about being at the therapist, which I know totally. You're at the therapist, you're talking up a storm, even though you can't talk outside the office. You leave, you're on the top of the world in thirty or forty five minutes, Bang, you're at the bottom, okay, and being That's one thing I envy in a musician. If you happen to write a hit song. On one level, it's a sentence. You got to play it for the

rest of your life. But on another level, you can perform it, whereas if you're writing prose, you're right at once that's it. Okay. So you know, I think there has to be a raw motivation. You know. The other thing is we all get older and we ask, well, you know I did this, Should I be doing something completely different? You know I'm not gonna live forever. But the question becomes as I somewhat, I mean, someone of your caliber. I have no doubt that if you applied yourself,

you could get very major covers. Because we have the hip hop world. That's not your world, okay, then only we have the pop world. They don't write most of these songs, and if you listen to the lyrics, they're not that good. Okay. Sure, when you write a song, you have assuming you say yes, you know, you have no control over what they're gonna do with it. But you know, most people can't do it, you can do it. Yeah, I guess I'm intimidated by that world of getting your

songs covered out there. It just seems like all those young artists were writing with the producers and they want the writing, the publishing and the credit. And I mean, I know some great writers that aren't getting covers people in Nashville. So I don't know. I guess I'm skeptical. I was too skeptical. And this is one of the problems. If you're ignorant, you're better off because all the things you're bringing up are totally reel by the same token. If you write a hit song, okay, that will help

your mood. In an addition, I can certainly say you can't change a certain word. I'm totally with that. And you also say, well, I'm not giving up, but maybe even though it's a scam, you give up and then as you gain you know, it's like anything else with leverage. The question, you know, as I say, question, is whether you would get off on it. I mean, only you can answer that. I think it's just getting back in the game, you know. I think I'm disconnected from all

of the you know, the outlets for that. So i'd have to well, I would say that you know, there are not some publishers are better at collection, some better or better at covers, And I think having a couple of meetings with these people would show you opportunities. For you can have a meeting enough to sign anything, and you can also write a track and then say this is the track. You don't have to give up anything to do it. Because I'm here giving advice because I'm

a big believer. I mean, I find the same motivation of the internet. You know, there's so much stuff out there. You write something and you go, well, you know, who am I going to reach than my core audience? And it's somewhat somewhat depressing for especially for those of us who lived through an era what it was different. Well, yeah, I just have to get off my butt and be a little more disciplined. I think I know it's in there.

I mean, I went to a writing coach when I had writer's block during that whole period, and somebody sent me to a writing coach and he said, Okay, I just want you to wake up every morning and just write a page, just stream of consciousness. Don't It doesn't matter what you say. You don't kind of read it later or anything, just right. So every morning, before coffee

or anything, just do the writing. And he goes and then bring it back into me um, and he goes, just somewhere in there, there's going to be something, find a line. There's got to be something in that you can is as a song title. And I was like, oh God, he's going to give me an assignment. And so I had had a dream about my dad or something, and I wrote this thing about I always just want to stay Daddy's a little girl. And because that's what I want you to, Okay, here's this. I know you

to write a song called Daddy's Little Girl. That's a great fool And I was just like, oh, I don't want to do this is awful. It's assignment. I don't write that way. It'll come out bad, and I don't want to end. I went and forced this song out and it's a great song. So it just proved to me that I was full of it thinking that I couldn't write that way. So I think you're right. I mean, basically, if you're talented, you're not going to write something horrible.

You might write not write the best thing you wrote but if you have those skills, you're probably gonna write. Okay, so you're right, I have I have no. Well, the other thing about my writing is different. You always want to write in eleven and you're disappointed once you've been doing a long time throughout eleven. But one thing is for sure. You cannot hit the eleven each time. Nobody can.

But if you stay at it, all of a sudden, it's always like you know, for me, it's like what you say, either as a raw stimulation or I'm in the shower, something just comes to me and then it does. But you know, also as your point with your depression, you get older, you've seen the game, so it's you know, it's it's not as exciting. It's hard to get motivated. Again.

I think that's part of it. I'm probably too much, too negative about that, but right I just wish I was one of those people that just I've no people that just go, I just have to write because I'm not happy if I'm not writing songs, and I'm like, can you give me an injection of some of that? Okay, when you do write a song, let's say you're writing the lyrics, you say, it's more difficult. When you finally do you talk about the earlier songs coming all at once?

How fast? How long has it taken write the lyrics for a song. Maybe you dare too so very quickly. Yeah, and not all day long. I mean either kind of have it or I don't. It either sort of happens or a pieces of music that just sit there for

years that never gets well. You know, the only thing about it is when your music, generally speaking, certainly not personally, it resonates with people who are square pigs in a round hole, okay, in that they use the music to feel good about These are not I'm not saying a cheerleader or football captain can't enjoy your music, but people who you're when your fans say they want more, they want more insight, that's what you know. We Joni Mitchell, we wanted more and then she lost the plot and

she's kind of crazy anyway. But I don't know, you know, I'll I'll let you get up off the couch. But those are some of my thoughts. Now it's inspiring. I think those are good thoughts. Okay, But let's it to Carla Bonoff. You can where are you playing? Yolk? For the next six months. Oh, it's on our website. We're going to the Northwest. Um, then we're going back east.

We're going everywhere, go everywhere. And these tend to be solo dates or you I know you played with j D in Minneapolis, but these other gigs mostly just yeah for an evening with Carla bonof Right, So how many songs might someone expect to hear? Um? We play almost two hours actually, So if you go, you're gonna hear the song you want, and you can buy the new album. And you can also, because I know I did it, you can stream it on Spotify another streaming services. Carla,

it has been wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much.