Jake Gold

business going to return? Well, it looks like in my mind, um, I mean, there are some festivals that are saying this fall. I doubt it. I think the earliest is second quarter. I think it will be different country by country. I mean, Canada's in a little better shape. But I don't see the borders opening up that quickly. And if they do, it will still be for for other types of services I don't see. I think they already announced in l A that no large gatherings till the end of from

what I heard. Yeah, well, you know, it's a very interesting thing because Zekiel Emmanuel and it's kind of interesting because he's the brother of both Rom and Ari, and Ari of course is the Majordomo at w M e UH. He has gone on record in the New York Times. He of course is the ethics professor at University of Pennsylvania. Do you see him on TV occasionally? And he has been posting in the New York Times and he said he didn't expect concerts to come back to the fall

of one. The Mayor of Los Angeles said the beginning of one, which is what you said. But no one really knows, no. I think I think the uh, the jury is still out on that. There are some people talking. I think some of the festivals that have announced that in oh, we're gonna reschedule for October November, I think that's wishful thinking. I also think part of it is they don't want to have to give a whole bunch

of refunds back to people. If they say, oh, we're just rescheduling until next year and saying, okay, you can keep your tickets, but they're good for next year, well, you know, let's slow down for a second there, because that's become a big issue, big scuttle but online about refunds and you know, so what's your viewpoint on that? Because it first it seemed that Live Nation was going

to give refunds. Now it seems that they're not. Well it's it's Ticketmaster, even though they're the same company, but they're operating as separate in that way. Um I I think that I think that in this stage, if people want to refund, they should be able to get a refund. Um. I think there are some people that are saying, Okay, when's the date going to be, and if it keeps getting pushed back at some point, people aren't going to be available or they're not gonna want to go out.

I think, um, I think they should be getting refunds. I also wonder, um if if if there are some promoters that are saying, Okay, well we're going to reschedule this for a year from now, hold your tickets for a year from now. Well, I know the money sits in trust, someone's holding on to that money. Well, you know, this has been a big change over the last couple of years in the music business, and the concert tickets can be sold in excess of a year out, and

there's obviously an advantage to holding that money. But we're in an interesting era. We're in an era of musical chairs. Everybody is taking a hit. So do we make the customer whole, because the customers not a whole. At work, a lot of people are laid off or not laid off, you know, or put on furlough. And these are public companies in some cases. So if Ticketmaster, which as we say, is part of Live Nation, if they give all the money back, that's a huge financial hit for a Ticketmaster

stop Hub. Most people believe if stop Help gives all the money back, they're going to go out of business. Well that and and um, what did I read today that watch for a big announcement on event right for tomorrow that Friday at four o'clock there's going to be a big amount announcement with event right. Well, by time this finally airs, we will know the essence of that. But do you think that event right, which is also

a ticketing company, will give money back. I don't know if they're going to give money back or maybe it's more about to do with the company. I'm curious. You know. I was talking to someone today, we were making a date for a month away from now for for another conversation, and they said, oh, that's the day I was supposed to go see Miss Saigon. But wonder, like, what about the big Broadway shows that people buy tickets? All you know, you're a manager. Let's stay with that. Okay, let's start

with the basic concept. If these acts, and I'm not talking about acci or playing club you know who are scraping by to begin with, but the big acts playing theaters, playing arenas, can they survive not working in excess of a year? So most acts work on a cycle at some point where there they could be working a record for a year and a half, then they're not on for a year, than they're back on for a year

and a half. Those acts could probably survive because they have other sources of revenue, which are what are those other sources royalties? Um uh, mostly royalties, whether it's the airplay, whether it's sound exchange, whether it's all the other sources of revenues that artists can. But we do know that a lot of those revenues are going to be much lower. Um. I was sent a document today that from Europe about what's going on on that side of things. Broadcast revenues

are down. If broadcast revenues are down, then performing rights revenues are down. Okay, so in Europe it's a percentage as opposed to same in Canada, it's percentage of gross revenue. Yeah yeah. And like in Canada, recently the Canadian government um uh gave gave the broadcasters a thirty million dollar like okay, hold off, you don't have to pay right now, Okay, just so I know, because in America we tend not

to know the rest of the world. To what degree is radio in Canada the CBC controlled by the government, and to what degree is it private? So the CBC is all is all not government, but it's I guess it's public. Let's just call it public broadcast but supported by the government. But most of real radio outside of the CBC is all private. The all big radio chains. Um, you've got Chorus, You've got Bell Media, uh shaw, You've got tons of big, big radio chains out there. So

those are the commercial radio stations. Okay, So let's go back to acts. You know, there are some acts from the eighties even the seventies who played sheds every year. And I was discussing this actually with Irving days off, and I said, why are they going out every year? Said they need the money so we all can expand to our lifestyle. You know, if you're planning on making a million dollars and make nothing, you're not gonna be able to pay for all your houses. Oh listen, it's

a problem. It's a problem for managers too. It's a big problem on the management side. My business is not just mine, but almost all managers it's decimated. There's nothing there. Um, it's it's a real problem you're seeing. I was talking to one manager the other day and they manage basically theater size acts and they have about four or five

of them that are regularly touring. They figured that this year alone, from now till the end of the year, as the manager side, is gonna lose seven hundred thousand dollars in commission. Now, if you're a mid size or small to midsize management company with five employees, and that's that's your nut for that's the money you're gonna make for a couple of years. Because you're acts are on cycle right now. That can put you out of business

in it if you don't have all that money. So it's not just it's not just the acts, it's the managers too. So it's a practical matter because what we do know is live business is going to come back last probably even after the movie theaters. And because everybody is side by side, So the question becomes, how are these people gonna make it through? Well, that's the big thing. I mean right now, you know, we're looking everybody, like in the States, just like here, are all looking for

government bailants. They're looking for a way for the government to support the industry. It's a big problem. Um, it's not going to go away that quickly. And and we're looking we're looking for we're being asked by government to say, okay, what's your short term needs and what are your long term needs? And when we're looking at the long term needs, we're looking at two year needs, not just six month needs or nine month needs. And and it's a big problem.

And especially for the artists. I mean, we recently did a survey up here amongst artists and managers and um, you know, se or more of the artists and managers income came from live That's a problem. Okay. Now, the uh in the US, the music business has gotten together to try to get money. In Canada, is the business

already getting money. So what they've done in terms of they've done not sector business because they look at culture as one sector, so that includes film TV because we've always had a lot of grants and things like that for I P. So if you're a record company making records, you can get grants. If you're an independent artist, you can get money to make records, touring, stuff like that. But there's no money per se to cover lost revenue. And if the lost revenue is how you're supposed to

pay all your bills, it's a problem. Um. There has been some um, some money put out there, uh two thousand dollars a month for self employed people, but right now it's only for four months. There's obviously there's talk about that being extended for longer. Um. There's grants. There's labor grant subsidies, so you can get um subsidized for up to of your your salaried employees. There's loans that being offered, not as big as the ones that are being offered in the States, but um, you know, we

have a different size economy. So there's some loans that are partially repayable and and partially forgivable, those kinds of things. But every day they keep announcing new versions of the same thing, because every time they announced something, people come back and say, well, that's not gonna work. That's not gonna work. Today they announced a rent subsidy for for businesses, you know, like restaurants that are going to be closed let's say for three, four or five months, but their

landlords still need to get paid. So now there's a rent subsidy. But the way they positioned it is they'll give the money to the landlords so they won't have to charge the tenants. But everyone's wondering, well, how you're gonna know if your landlord actually got that subsidy or not. So there's a question on one of the checks and balances there, and it's a moving target because everyone's still trying to figure out how this is all going to work. Okay,

let's start at the very beginning. I've have people actually gotten money from the government as we talk. Yes, okay, let's just assume you're a bar band, and let's say you can play outside your own town. But you're playing, let's make the number somewhat big, somewhere between seventy five and three fifty seats at night. Can you get money

for that? Yes, you can't get money replacement for that, but you right now you can get each person in the band can get two thousand dollars a month, Okay, But if someone is self employed and they're not in the music business, they're going to get the same two thousand. Yeah. Like, I have a friend who was a server, who's an actor who makes her money serving when she's not acting, Um, she's making She was on unemployment insurance or employment insurance,

let's call it. But when the two thousand came out, it actually worked out to higher than her employment insurance, so they actually put her on the two thousand a month instead of the employment insurance. When that two thousand a month runs out, she'll go back to the other insurance. But for now they may be extending it. I mean it's supposed to be for four months, going back to the middle of March. So most people in the arts are going on that program for now, and it's eight

thousand dollars minimum that they're gonna get, Okay. So in America we had uh this, you know, it's funny everybody keeps labeling. Paul Krugman said, it's not truly a stimulus. But there were these uh this two trillion dollar amount, and there's been a big argument over where this money is coming from and whether there should be more money. Is there a big argument about that in Canada. Yeah.

In fact, we're going to the UH to the to the government over the next couple of days and early next week to present what the short term needs are for our sector and and what the long term needs are for our sector. UM. And I think they're probably gonna come up with sectors specific UM relief programs UM across the board. Because you're hearing it. Oil and gas have their own problems, UM. Obviously, the restaurant business has

their own problems. We're approaching it. UM. There's there's been a coalition that we've worked together on other issues like copyright and things like that. So it's gonna be all the industries together as a coalition trying to UH to talk to the government about the needs of our sector. Okay, I guess being more specific. Is there a backlash from more conservative people saying this is too much money being spent. We haven't heard none of that yet. I think that

interestingly enough, UM, I haven't seen it. You know, I'm active on Twitter, Um, I'm I'm I'm paying attention to the news. I'm even watching the Conservative you know, we have a liberal government and power. But um, if you don't understand the parliamentary system, the second party is the Conservatives. Um. Whatever they've been talking about, the one thing they're not talking about is not spending more money. They're talking about how do we get more money into the hands of

people and things like that. So everyone's on the same page that it's all about relief, relief, relief, relief. Okay, not that you can answer this question, where's this money going to come from? Well, you know they have this big printing press and they just they just printed out like in the like in Money Heist, you know how they printed the money and then the money just appeared. Okay, what do you want? What are you watching? What are you screaming? Well, on a couple of year recommendations, I

went through Money Heist. I wasn't Ozark fan already. I went through Babylon Berlin. Um, I haven't decided to start anything yet. Uh. I saw an ad for something and I was like, did I see that? And I went, oh, yeah, I saw the whole thing. Because it's like it's all where I will tell you. I just watched the Gordon Lightfoot documentary, which was really really good, and I was thinking of you when I watched it because I didn't realize he went to UM college. He went to music

college in Los Angeles. That's where he went to school. He went to like some special music school at eighteen nineteen years old in Los ange to us and he was in like this. He was the singer in this big band that was from the school and it's all in the dock and I was like, I had no idea about all that. Uh, well, my question becomes, how come all the conversation in the media and amongst friends

is about TV as opposed to music. Well, it's an interesting thing that you say that because we know streaming is down. Like streaming is down. No, it's gone back up. It's gone back like. That was a guy. I got a big bone to pick. Uh. He's a nice enough guy, but that's tim ingam. He's also in Rolling Stone. He fancies himself and analyst and he looks at dat and it seems to me he comes up with a theory

and then has the data to establish that. Just after he published that music streaming was down, Uh, Spotify put out a press release saying that was not true. And then this last week, there's a story that's streaming has gone up. Yes, streaming syne ups have gone up. Talking all the I'm telling you no, No, the actual number

of tracks has gone on. I'm talking to all the independent labels that I'm on a regular like every other day conference call an email with and in fact I was just on a big email trail with all of them before we even got on here. All of them are saying their numbers it's down. Well, I can't speak to those specific people, and I'd rather not argue while

we're doing this podcast. But one thing we do know is it's irrelevant because as long as people are paying their subscribing fees, whether volume goes up or down, there's still the same pot of goal, right, But it does matter. I guess maybe if you're dealing with a whole bunch of independent labels that have more independent type acts that don't live in the pop world, that maybe in the pop world it's gone it's gone way up. But on the well that that goes to another point, and this

has got little to do with COVID nineteen. But uh, when you look at the streaming numbers, it's sort of like the rest of the world certainly United States, and there's winners or losers. If you're Drake who happens to be from Toronto or someone of that caliber, you're making more money on c on singles than you ever were. But if you're not Drake and you're someone who's playing Americana,

you can't live off the royal No. No. And in fact, the other thing that people aren't even realizing is that there's a lot of money is being made on the on the sinc side of things, from from putting your music in film and television. Well, all the productions are down, there's nothing going on, so that money goes to artists on the writer's side, it goes to publishers, it goes to labels on the master's side. So there's we're missing

out on a lot of that money too. So it's not and as I say, in Canada, they're giving too grand to everybody. Supposedly every bed in America is getting or there's big There seems to be some bumps on the road to them getting them. But don't you don't you get an autograph with it? Yes, we do so, uh without making it specifically about our president. Um, do you think this is a good time or a bad time for developing acts. UM. Well, I think there's there's

I think there's a lot of opportunities there. When I've sat on a lot of m zoom UH gatherings amongst I'm the vice president of the MMF, which is the Music Managers Forum, which hasn't didn't really catch on as much in the US as it has around the rest of the world. It's very strong in Canada and very strong in in the UK and a lot of other territories.

UM And so we've been hosting a lot of these get togethers with other young managers and what we've been saying is now is a great time to cultivate an audience. If you can get music out there, if you can get content out there, if you can do live stream things like that, you could probably gain some fans and

build some fans. So when you actually do have an opportunity to release the music and get out and play in front of people, maybe your constituency will be that much bigger because you have somewhat of a captive audience. And just like watching you know, streaming uh UH TV series or movies, people are constantly looking for something new to uh to check out, so I think, however, you

know if you check out Live Nation. I was dealing with Michael Rapino and I suggested he did an excellent job of listing the streams, and what we do know is just like streaming music, it's kind of overwhelming. So many people are streaming shows, yeah, but there's just just many people that don't want to watch the biggest artists out there and want to want to discover something new. Are the same people that go to the grimy clubs because they want to find a new band that they're into.

And and that's where you're going to cultivate your audience from anyways, And at some point it's gonna be word of mouth. Anyway, someone watches it, another friend tells another friend, and you know you're building your audience. But to sit there and do nothing is not the answer. It's okay,

you're a manager. You famously built the tragically Hip. If you had an act today, an act that could sustain on its income, let's say it Soul Theaters hundred or three thousand seats, what would you be telling that act to do today? I'd be telling them to engage their audience and keep them interested and keep them, keep them, keep them engaged with, you know, doing some live streams.

UM the hip hop world right now. I don't know if you've seen this, Bob, but some of them are doing these UM these live streams and they're attracting three hundred and fifty thousand people to the live streams with tip jars, and they're actually generating a lot of revenue from people. Even if people put in a dollar, it's three thousand dollars. So there is ways to do it

out there, especially if they can't get to it um. So, so depending on the size of your act, if you have an audience and your audience really wants to see you, and you're offering something that they probably would never get to see anyways. Because if you think about it, if you're if you're an act playing theaters, but now you're gonna do acoustic performances in a living room, a lot of people would be yeah, I'll pay to see that.

People are charging through Patreon, they're charging you know, twenty dollars or ten dollars or tip jars. I think there's a lot of ways to generate income. I don't think you're not gonna make You're not gonna make what you're making selling out a theater that if you're managing an act and you're trying to both sustain and grow an audience, would you say to give it away for free or to charge? I would say to charge. I would say to charge for some things and other things to give away.

But i'd also you know, one of the ways you can you can give it away by saying, you know, provide us with your your phone numbers so you can be part of our text team, or provide us with your email address so we can help build the database so we have a way to connect with you with other things. Maybe you make special merch just for quarantine. Um, you know, if you can find someone to print it, or maybe um, I I know someone that's that's working

on a system. Um. You know, there's there's all kinds of ways to do it where you can you know, uh, you know, if you look at the way some of the crowdfunding things worked, where people pay in advance to buy merch and when the merchants made, they get it sent to them. So there's other ways to generate that kind of income. UM. I think it's easier for bands that actually already have a following because they have an army that they can enlist, especially if their fans are

used to seeing them all the time. Uh. With the younger bands, you've gotta you've gotta work that much harder because you're trying to build a constituency. Okay, now, what do we know that when everybody uh in the middle of March started to hunker down in their houses, people started to do these livestream meaning acts started to do the live streams. At first it was people with the following people were known, then all the wannabes came in

hearing from them. They're trying to grow their audience. Since we're talking about a lockdown that will certainly be nine months, could be the better part of eighteen months. Do you think that we'll see just like flattening the curve, we'll see a reduction of these free live streams and an increase in paid live streams. I think that's the only way it's going to go. I think I think that

it's a re education in a lot of ways. Um, I think we're I think one of the things that may come out of this overall is people actually learning how to do stuff online that for a lot of people that never actually played online, whether it's ordering groceries or anything like that. I think there's there's a re education. And they say it takes twenty one days to change someone's behavior on what they did before, what they're gonna do now. Think about eighteen months of what that's gonna

be like. And I think, you know, I think you know, we may get to a point where social distancing may not be the same. So you actually could put a band together in one room. Uh Like, if you think about look at w w E. Their business model is pay per view. Well, how different is this if it's pay per view? And no one ever thought pay per view would work in music. But if that's all you can get, maybe you would pay for it. Well, it's interesting because the w w E is considered an essential

business in Florida. So uh arguing whether their business is essentially no comment? But but but okay, but what is go on? But to their point, their business model has always been a pay per view. Right, pay per view concerts historically haven't worked. Um remember the Who Final show in nineteen eight one which was pay per view or eighty two whenever it was, I was at it and I thought it was gonna be the last time him I saw the Who, But um, I don't know how

successful that was. But you can still goes and see shows if there's no other options. Well, well, you know what we do know is House of Blues Concerts. That was originally an internet play and that was a big component in terms of filming live stuff. They outfitted all the venues and it didn't work, and they sold it to Live Nation ultimately. And we also have Fish using

nugs net. It appears that Fish fans and other fans of the Almond Brothers there is a very small hardcore who will watch online now of course for once in a lifetime event, and it turns out like this one may literally be a once in a lifetime event, which was the final Dead Shows in Chicago. They also did well with pay per view, staying staying with pay per view. What's an appropriate price, Well, I guess it's going to

be depending on the act. I mean, if an act says I'm gonna do a show, you know, twelve shows a year, once a month, versus a one time show, it's a different thing. You know. Obviously, you pay more for exclusivity, and you pay more for um for availability. Um, you know, I think you have to look at it that way. Uh. You know, if if the Dead were only doing one show, then people would pay a lot

more for the ticket than if they were touring that show. Yeah, that's kind of like pay per view boxing switching gears a little bit. What's the future for the movie business in an era where the studios are the theaters are closed? Well? What did I just read that AMC is filing for chapter eleven? And yeah, well that you know that we're talking about two levels of business. Many people are unsophisticated

when it comes to how these public corporations work. They go to chapter eleven because they can't pay their debts and they try to reorganize. It's chapter seven, I believe, which is permanent go out of business. But what I'm really asking is is there a future in pay per view movies on demand on the flat screen? Well, it's interesting you say that. Um, I think for certain kinds of movies, I think, you know, um, the dark side

of thing I think will suffer. Um. You know, the Hot Doc Festival in Toronto, which is one of the best documentary festivals in the world, just announced, Um, they're going with their regular slate of films and and what they've done is they've made broadcast deals with all the broadcasters in Canada to carry those films. So the revenues coming in it actually gives these documentaries a bigger audience than by having them play, you know, for a week

in a theater somewhere. Um. So it's not technically the same kind of film festival because people aren't going to movie theaters, but um, for the for the actual filmmakers, they're getting a bigger audience out of it. So well, my question would be, because I'm unfamiliar, that would ultimately be free to the audience in Canada. With those documentaries.

You're not paying twenty dollars for a forty eight hour or five day window to watch, but but you're paying for your your cable bill or your streaming costs or whatever. It is. Like I saw an ad for a movie this morning, and and it looked like and then it said opening this day, and then very quickly there was a flash at the end of the commercial and it said only on Netflix. But up until I saw that, I thought, whoa, they're opening a movie somewhere and then

it was only on Netflix. But well, It's interesting because the New York Times in the l A Times, the two entertainment centers in the United States, they were reviewing movies all the way through March, which made no sense because no one could go to see them. But now I was noticing because movies tend to open on Friday, noticing last Friday the movie they reviewed all were available on demand. Right personally, not that I watch movies or television hours and hours every day, but I'm paying for

so many services. I've got my cable bill, i got my Netflix bill, I've got my Amazon bill. Are people really going to pay for video on demand on a one shot basis? Or do they want it biked into Netflix like you just said. Well, it's interesting because I

do both. If there's a movie I really want to see that I want to see now that hasn't come out on UH and I'm a sample of one, but I know other people that do the same that hasn't come out on Netflix or hasn't come out on any streaming services yet, but I want to see it now. I'll pay the five ninety nine or to watch the movie at home, and if it's in four K, even better. I've done that many times? How often in a quarter?

How often do you do that? I'm doing it nowadays probably now days, which is more often, but I'm doing it once a week. Okay, So my question will become, because you're talking about windowing, there a movie that has played theatrically and is ultimately going to cable and then we'll see it forever for free on some free channel. My question would become that movie has probably the beneficiary of fifty to a hundred million dollars in marketing. Can you open a movie only on video on demand? Can

you reach the customers? That's the first question. They have to know about it before they pay for it. Well, I think like if you're talking about the new Star Wars and movies like that with hardcore fans, that if they know that this is how they're gonna see it and it's gonna cost them seven bucks, they'll put they'll probably do it, and they'll probably have giant viewing parties, you know, with a couple of their friends that are

that are in their family. You know, I think know my brother he buys movies, he actually owns them, right, he buys them through in what format he's buying them from? My iTunes, he's buying him a disk, He's buying him out on He's buying him on Google. Um, anybody, what's the logic there? He wants to own them so he can see them over and over again, like his He loves his his sci fi movies, and he wants to own them so he can see them over and over again.

He buys you know, as I say, I'm someone who doesn't read a book twice, almost never watches a movie twice. But I believe that's a fetishism or just a fetish in this particular case, because everything is available on demand. You know, I hear from people all the time, Oh, I'm not signing up for Spotify a because what if there were I'm out of range. Well, the sophisticated people, you don't have to be that sophisticated. No, you can seek it to the handset as long as you're hand

set as juice, doesn't matter whether there's a signal. But I believe you know that we live in an on demand culture, which brings me to another fashion of your life where you gave up your car. Yeah yeah, and my audience about that, Well, I got in a car accident and my car was written off. And uh, this was how long ago? Two years ago October? I think it was maybe three years ago through maybe three years ago. Now I think it's two years ago, yeah, um and uh.

And what happened was, Uh, I had been thinking about getting rid of my car, and the accident kind of made the decision for me, because when I looked at getting a new car, and then looked at looked at what it would cost me to take Uber's use public transit, which I had been using anyways, because parking downtown Toronto

was a pain in the ass. And the fact I could rent down my parking spot and saving on insurance and gas and upkeeping everything else, I was ahead of the game by about ten twelve thousand dollars a year, and I didn't have to worry about a car. And if I need a car for anything really important, I just rented. So I live in I live in the city. I live in the core. Um. One of the reasons I chose to live in the course I had lived in New York, and I liked that lifestyle of not

having a car and walking places. Um, So I chose to live like that, and I wanted to live that same lifestyle I had when I was living in New York. And again, cars are easy to access if you need one. Um and between between ubers and public transit. Nowadays, I'm not spending any money. I'm not going out for dinner, I'm not taking any ubers anywhere. Um So, actually costs are way down for me. Now, let's drill down on the cost. When you had your old BMW, was it

completely paid for? You were paying per month? No. By the time I not, I smashed it up and had

been paid for for a little over a year. So okay, So what did you estimate your cost of owning a car for your and A relative to what it's if I, if I had to make payments on it, you know, it was cost to me, you know, four or five a month, plus insurance which was another couple of hundred dollars a month, plus gas plus parking, plus you know upkeep, which is you know you're wear and tear on any car, whether it's tires or oil, you know, whatever you're spending.

So if I priced out, if I was going to get a new car and have to pay payments on the car with all the costs in, it was going to be close to twenty dollars a year to carry a car. And I figured that if I spent even thirty dollars a day on an uber, that's only ten thousand dollars a year. Right, how much did you You ended up spending about ten k a year? No, not even close, not even close. Because I work. What's your what's your reading? My office is in my house. What's

your rating on Uber? I think I'm a four seven five? Okay, so you're a nice guy in the Uber. Not it's definitely the guys that don't know which way they're going. So I tend to be a bit of a backseat driver on directions. So yeah, but if you've got four point seven, you know they're not too angry about it. I'm a friendly backseat driver. So to what degree are you self quarantining? Um? I've been out twice in thirty three days, and that was just to go to the

to the store to pick up last minute stuff. I've been ordering my groceries in UM, I've been cooking. I UM. I've my brother dropped off a mask to me, but he just left it at my door. My assistants still working, so he uh, he'll pick up stuff and leave it at my door. If I have mailed for him, I'll leave it at my door. We don't actually have any contact. Um.

I've been doing a lot of Zoom meetings. I had a Zoom birthday party was which was fun um it psych Over thirty people showed up, which probably be more than if I had a regular party, and people came from There were people on it from all over North America and even a couple from Europe. It was pretty late there, but they showed up, so it was interesting, you know. It was Uh, that was kind of overwhelming

actually to have that much attention. I did a Zoom sat with you and your friendly so I got to meet all of your families, so that was fun um and offer my Canadian perspective on things, which so how is you know? You seem very upbeat now, how is your state of mind in the sequestion I had I had a session with my shrink today, so of course I'm up beat today. Uh, overall, it was overall, you know what, because I work from home, it's not that much of a disruption for me in terms of being

in the house all the time. I'm used to it. I've been doing it now for two and a half years, I think, um uh, And I'm communicating with a lot of people. You know, I'm face timing with different friends every day, which I never did before. Now people are instead of just making texting you or calling you, their face timing you like it's and it's and it's like, you know, you have to message them back and say, hey,

I'm not ready to face right or whatever. So I think, I think we're actually communicating a lot more than we have. But I mean, how are you finding it in that way? Well, as I say, I go up and down in a couple of things. I go up and down on fear. First, I was very fearful, and then I wasn't fearful for a while. And then I read that crazy case of the doctor on the front lines Washington State. They had to put him in the cardiac unit, and I said, you know, this could be really bad. And of course

some people we know died. So there's I wax and Wayne on the fear I am. So I haven't seen anybody face to face in excess in real life, you know, in excess of a month, but desidside your girlfriend, beside your girlfriend, yes, who lives in the house we lived together. Um, in terms of state of mind, you know, well, I'm very busy. You know, I'm busier than I normally am. And I live in Los Angeles. You know, those hours in the car I'm missing out on. It's like Howard Stern.

You know, I'm not as addicted as I once was, only because I don't have that window. However, I haven't astern. I mean, I have the I have the app, and I pay for it to listen to your show and to listen to Stern. But I've been like I've been busy too, i haven't listened to Stern normally in the in the mornings, I'll have it on. I'll be listening on my phone or on my computer, you know, before I actually sit down at my desk. But now I'm answering emails and I'm messaging with friends and how how

are you doing? How did you do last night? Everyone's checking in on each other, and I'm playing I'm playing Words with friends with random with random people. But it's it's good brain exercise to play scrabble, So I'm staying staying on Stern. He had Cuomo on, which was very good. You could get onto me and then again, Chuma has appeared in many places, especially with his brother. But I got to the first I felt it was Groundhog Day, the same day every day, and then I was so

then I didn't quite know what day it was. And then the other day I worked really hard, and then I was burned out. The problem is with modern communications, you can never disconnect from Monday morning to Friday afternoon. Yeah, I mean I'm hearing from people seven you You you have a hard time saying, well, I'm not gonna have my phone right by me if I don't have my phone right by me, that I really can't concentrate me. If I have my phone right by and I really

can't concentrate on something else. But if I leave my phone in the other room, I'm afraid. It's not only fomo, it's business. And as you say, it's our way to connect. And then you say, well, I'm gonna lay low on the weekends. But then everybody, I mean, this is the way it normally is. But I'm trying to say every wee traction on the weekend. Anyway, I'm trying to see

where the normalization is. But you, but you're more productive because you're not spending all that time, so you're basically liv in my lifestyle now where you're not in the car right right, so so so you found all these extra hours to write, to read, to do the things that you didn't do before, because I say, an experiending. You know. The interesting thing is the other day I found I had more time to listen to new music. Generally speaking, I listened to new music when I'm hiking.

And the story with new music is unless unless you're calm, everything sounds like ship and you know, you pull up the Spotify top fifty say you know they hit the ship ratio is terrible. This is another thing I can't rant enough about. You know, everyone thinks that playlists have solved the problem. No, it used to be DJs were experts and they read and they played certain songs. Now these playlists, there's so many crappy songs. Who can listen

to that many crappy songs. However, I was listening to some songs the other day, even that I'd heard before, and they resonated more because I was calm. Now, of course, if you're driving in the car and you're listening to music opposed to Howard, you have a similar thing, but it's not like the old days because there's so many stations, certainly on satellite radio, and you can stream your phone. You know, this is something that's overwhelming to me in

terms of new music. There is great new music out there, but connecting with the people who actually like it is so difficult, and as I say, you can waste so much time looking for the great stuff. Same thing with television. I read about television. People inundate me with shows. Some of them are good, and then you end up watching

a show. I mean, I started watching the show which was rated the number one foreign show in the New York Times called Prisoners of War in his rarely show about two guys who come back from being held prisoners of war seventeen years in Syria. Very intense, but I could I feel like I could be the only person watching it. Well, I'm gonna watch it now, you said that.

But but Fouda is coming back this week, Well Found is coming back on the twenties six in the US, and also Bosch is coming back the day after we have this conversation. Is let's go back to the music business for a couple of seconds. Here. You were one of the first people to embrace the Internet. If you have a developing act, Now, what platforms should you use? How important is social media? How often should you be posting? Well?

I think right now because the audience is there, I think you could be posting more because they're they're chewing it up so fast. Um. I still think Instagram and Instagram Live seems to be the place where people are going. You're seeing bands that are breaking stuff off TikTok TikTok and and and stuff like that. I think Twitch is becoming a big thing, but I think that tends to lean more in the pop world. I'm not seeing a lot of indie acts and rock bands doing stuff on TikTok,

you know. Um So, I still think Instagram of Facebook to a certain degree just because there's an audience there, regardless of the age and everything else. But I do think that Instagram has got to be the number one place to be right now. Um. Now, you maybe you personally are very active on Twitter. Is that just a personal thing or is there something that you can break bands there or you believe other people should be on it? Um. I think I think it's a great source for information.

I think you can build an audience there and you can direct them to your other places. I don't see a lot of I haven't seen one live stream on Twitter yet. You know, uh it's not well they broadcast football games. There's a way to do it. But I agree with you haven't seen it. Yeah, so I haven't seen. Oh, by the way, in Canada found it starts today. I envy you, so I'll be going deep. So great show. So back to I still think Instagram it's interest thing. If you if you go on Instagram now and I

noticed that you recently got on Instagram. Um, if you go on Instagram you know in the top of the the app is all the stories, and the stories used to be one person, used to be all one person just doing their thing. Now that the top of the app is where the stories are, it's all live. Everything is live. Multiple people that you know are on that live stream because obviously you know a lot of friends who know other friends, and so now all you're seeing

is Instagram live, Instagram live NonStop. So everyone's going there. There's um there's this app house Party. I don't know if you've heard of it, were heard of it, so you can only put it absolutely was started a while ago, and it was bought in two thousand and nineteen by the guys who own Fortnite because they were noticing that gamers were communicating on house Party while they were gaming. The only thing about it you can only put eight

people on it. But maybe that's another place where artists can go and say, Hey, we're gonna do a concert for only eight people. It's gonna be really exclusive, or for seven people and I'm gonna be the eighth I'm the artist, and I'm gonna do a house concert for you. No different than when you know a lot of artists are doing these house concert tours. So maybe that's another thing that artists could do is they could certainly charge

a lot for that, right. And the thing about house Party that's different than some of the other things Zoom. If you send the link, anybody can just click the link and get in on it house Party. If I'm on a conversation with you on house Party, I can hit the lock and it means no one else can

come in and we're in a locked room. And if you go onto the app, it will say Jacob Bob are in a locked room, you know, or if they if they're only connected with me on the app, it'll just say Jake's in the locker room, and it won't tell them who I'm with, so they can't enter the room. As I say, In terms of social media, and if you even want to call social media, yes, I'm dedicated follower of Twitter terms of the other formats. You know, I've had an accounted Instagram. I didn't post for years,

and I did post a couple of times. It's an interesting time because it's also because of all the messages, it's harder than ever to uh build an audience. But I found that these platforms are littered with self promotion, which I find a turn off. Yeah, I mean I think that's the other thing is that it's it's how do you engage your audience now without coming off as inauthentic or unauthentic, like you know, authenticity. People are are really clamoring for authenticity. And it's it's one of the

things that drives me crazy. You know. It's um the Instagram model who spouts off beautiful things about wellness and here's a picture of me of my ass and the thong.

It's like it doesn't work for me. There's a it's not there's no connection there, and I think I think that um that you know, it's it's the line that seems to be running around everywhere now is read the room is you know, you've got to be able to know how to uh how to market and how to uh engage your fans in an authentic way right now, and you've got to be smart about it. Um, you're

seeing a lot of ads. I saw someone on Twitter the day talk about all these ads coming from the big corporations about how and how fast they're turning these ads around to buy my product in these trying times, Like you know, who's writing the copy and how difficult a job that is to write that kind of copy. Um,

I think everyone's still trying to figure it out. The one thing I am doing more often than not is I think I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt because I know everyone's trying to figure it out, and everyone's everyone's a little lost, and some people are doing it really well and some people aren't doing it as well all, and I think maybe we should be a little bit more forgiving to those people because they haven't

figured it out yet. Well, however, there's been a huge you talk about reading the room, huge celebrity backlash, you know, to Gal Gadot and imagine with her other celebrities, David Jeffen in his yacht. And that's an interesting situation because in reality that's been going on for years, and that the celebrities are not who don't have the status and the adoration they used to have before. Well, I don't. I think it's interesting you're saying that because um I

read an interesting article in Vanity Fair. I don't know if I sent it to you or not, but it was all about you know, that that that this could be the death of the so called influencer right right, and I did that and whether and whether whether, and that goes with artists too, because there are plenty of artists out there who are who have market themselves more as sort of an influencer or someone who does this one thing, but they also do these other things and

music may not be there no or one thing, but they're trying to sell music off the back of what they're known for, you know. Um uh. I think the only one that's ever done it really successful and managed to come out the other side was Jack Johnson, who was not an artist when he first started, who right right. But most of the rest we kind of have looked at and went there's not a lot of credibility there. I think that the influences who are as I like to say, famous for being famous may not may not

last through. The ones that are really really big in the Kardashian level, I think they're teflon at this point. I don't know. It's interesting because in today's New York Times Style section they have a whole story how the fashion business is being hurt by the postponement of Coachella.

This really shows that it's not about the music. They happen to have a picture of an influencer there wearing her outfit that you go there to parade your look and if the other thing, which is sort of amazing with fast fashion, they say, a lot of these people just by the clothes for the weekend and literally throw them away. Yeah, However, Jake, why are Canada and Toronto's such epicenter of musical innovation and stature? You mean, why is the weekend and Drake number one in two the charts?

That's we well, not time before that you had uh broken social scene from Montreal, etcetera. Arcade fire. You mean from from Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things that we like a lot of European countries for what it's worth is we invest in the arts as a as a country. Uh. We have a great um, we have a great uh system of supporting the arts from grants UM, grants to companies, grants to artists. Um, there's

an infrastructure. There's infrastructure grants. UM. There's so you know, if you think about it, if if if a record company, independent record companies getting a grant to make a record, they're they're able to give the artists, um uh an advance. It's not a major label type advance, but it's also I'm not gonna not gonna have as much debt to recoup. Um. There we're supporting recording studios, were supporting video production. UM.

There's grants for film and television. So those people will get more money for their grants, um if they use Canadian music, because you get you know, based on how much Canadian content you put in your films dictates how much of the grant you can get. So there's all kinds of stuff like that. So when you look at that, how it supports an overall echosystem, ecosystem and then here we are kind of a training ground because we can

get our feet wet. And you know, most Canadian bands that tour are really good live bands, and a lot of them by the time they get to America, they're they're all formed entities that know how to go out there on the road. And I remember in the days of the Hip when we would go into places in America to play, they would all say, wow, like, you guys are like really together. You know, we'll be playing three clubs and most of the band's playing three clubs.

We're not that together. Like, you know, we were like a machine and and and we were also nice to the people there, and they would be like and they'd be like, you guys must be Canadian, you're nice. You know. It was like that was I hate to say it, but that's what we used to get all the time. And so we're kind of we have this great, um,

great training ground per se to get it going. Now that that wasn't always the case, but but and it's almost like a proof of concept in a lot of ways, um and everyone's looking for proof of concept today, so that has a big part to do with it too. Okay, is we're doing this remotely in our COVID nineteen initiation. Anything we haven't covered, Um, I don't know if if there's anything we haven't covered, but but I want to ask you a couple of questions since we're since we're

back and forth. UM, one of the things I noticed is is obviously and for a lot of reasons, and you and I have discussed this, you know ourselves internally, let's just call it. UM. You know you're really getting political these days. You're spending a lot of time on politics. I noticed you backed off the last few days and you've been um, you've been writing, there's you know, back to more music stuff and everything else. How are you dealing with the crap that you're getting? I saw that

hold on. I saw one post and I it gave me shivers. The guy with the guns that said he's coming for Sean Marmelo was let's continue to hear from him, and you continue to print his name too, as anybody written back and said, I know that guy like you know everyone's written about because you know today everybody's searchable online, right so they can see it. He is a country singer from I forget the state, but I have not heard from anybody who knows him. In terms of writing

about politics, there's a lot of things going on. Let me try to break it down a little bit. Um one. That is the story of our time, just like music was the Canarian the coal mine for digital disruption, and it's amazing. If you look at television. New York Times did a number of streaming services. There's like thirty pace streaming services. It's just crazy where we can get everything on one service, although there are a few services, and uh,

we have it figured out now. The fascinating thing is all of the people who said the Internet is going to kill the music business, that was untrue. C D did not survive. They were left in the past. So is that equivalent in this political thing? You know, are we going to see breakthrough? We're going to see a change in government in the United States and it's literally life and death. So what do I know? If I write about we'll call it politics. And the coronavirus responses voluminous,

just like in the days of Napster. If I write about music, it's much much smaller. I get all these daily newsletters, a record of the day from England. And the funny thing is they're not shorter whatsoever. It's just the news is more irrelevant. So ultimately comes down to the music, and we're focusing on music at this time. Yes, by writing about politics, I lose some subscribe it. There's a lot of thoughts. I could do twenty minutes on this, but I won't. First, if you listen to the audience,

you're screwed. If you're an artist, you have to do what residates the plastic person here being Neil Young. If you look back at Neil Young's history, he had a gigantic album with Harvest, which was his fourth album after the gold Rush. Before that was pretty big. He went on an arena tour and he played all new music and would say and then he said, okay, I'm gonna play something you know and you've heard already. Then he played a song from the same gig. Needless to say,

he could not play arenas thereafter. But people are still interested in the new music of Neil Young. They're not interested in the new music of Crosby Stills or Nash, certainly not in that volume. So the other thing was I did a podcast with Pete Tongue and this is really resonated with me. We're talking about his live career, Pete. You know, it's got many enterprises doing very well. It was fabulous. But one thing he said that really is stuck with me is that, Okay, his live business is

not as big as it used to be. And I said, well, could it be that big again? And he said he would have to reinvent himself. Now, this is an interesting thing in the music business. The classic acts. Uh, they're going out and they're playing the old tunes lucratively, if that's a word, it's you know, they're making a lot of money. No one wants to hear the new music. How fulfilling is it for those people? If you look at the legends David Bowie, I was there early, huge fan,

saw Ziggy Stardust. He constantly changed. Some things you'd like, some things you didn't, but he is the name that remains. The other thing I remember Brian Adam telling about Canadian Everyone said, oh, your music is not current enough, you're not taking topics on and then he made an album doing that and it was nowhere nearer successful. Then he went back to the old formula. So I believe I have to do what resonates and what I have found is because I save all my email. The people who

are bitching are always the same people bitching. Ironically, the people who email you who disagree with you on politics, they don't sign off. They're just working the refs. So people, those are the same people that hate Trump but follow Trump, and the same people that hate Pelosi but follow Pelosi. Right, the same people right well, as I say, if in terms of the right wing, uh, there's certainly they're trying to work the refs. I hear from these people some

every day. Okay, you would think if they didn't like what I write, they would sign off, but they don't. But yesterday I sent a number of things, and I'm always weary. I used to send up to five things a day, but I sent three things in a day, and usually inherently you get sign offs. The third thing was political. I didn't lose the single subscriber net net. But what I've also, you know, you start to learn, interestingly, I lose most subscribers when I print a mail bag,

the all the viewpoints. I can't exactly explain why, whether people just overwhelmed. If they hear it from me, they're okay. If they hear from all these other people on both sides. Somehow it overwhelms. You know, I don't know why they have done subscribed. They can just delete, you know, like Okay, I don't like mail bag, I'm not gonna read mail bag. Or maybe they're in the mail bag and they didn't and they realized that afterwards and they decided I'm gonna subscribe.

Be interesting to see how many of your unsubscribers were people you mentioned in the mail bag, to see if there's a correlation. There never never, but I have had people send me hainous me mail and sign off and I printed their heinous email. You always wonder if they read it. Yeah, yeah, I know that. I know that. I have another question for you before I go there. I want to say one thing is that, um, the people who are mad about politics always tell you they're unsubscribing.

There's a link at the bottom of the you know, they to do it themselves, but they have to tell you take me off the list, right, Yeah, and then you can print that, and that's great. I love reading those. I love reading those because those people, if if they did it right after they sent it to you, then they never got to read their own email. In your mail bag. Let me let me ask you the next question. I don't know when this thing is going to go to air. Is it gonna go to air within the

next seven days? Probably? Okay, So it's gonna go to air around the time of your birthday. Your birthday is coming up, And how do you feel about that? Like, this will be your, like me, your first quarantined birthday, and usually, well, I know you're not a giant birthday. We've had a couple of big birthday parties for you had a big fifty, we had a big sixty. Um, it's gonna be your first quarantine birthday. Uh, how is that going to feel? Well? I've had a couple of

birthdays that haven't been uh, you know, as meaningful. Add One, I like to go to the closing week of AIL and go skiing, and especially the closing week was my birthday. The subsequent year, my birthday was the day after closing and I flew home on an airplane, And so my expectations not that high. But as I get older, what bothers me about my birthday is it comes and goes so fast. You think about it coming for like three months, that it's one day and it already happens, so I

have rituals on my birthday. Um in nine seven, I went for pastrami sandwich at Langer's, then went to see the movie Annie Hall, and then went for a Sunday at a legendary place on Hollywood Boulevard that no longer exists called C. C. Browns. So that's what I do every birthday the last couple of years. Some there has occasionally there hasn't been a good movie, and I've watched Netflix. Always go for the pastrami sandwich, Always have the ice cream.

What I'm thinking about is getting a z Bars send and sort of have my own celebration here. I'm also the question would be my sister said, do I want a Zoom birthday party? Now, you had a Zoom birthday party with thirty people. But the only thing about Zoom is it's cacophony. You can't know, everyone's talking, it's fun, everybody's here, but you can't make any pro No, Actually,

you've got him. All you have to do is you have to have someone that sort of takes control of the party, right, and in that case it could be you. Where I like, I went around the room and asked everyone to give recommendations on what they've been streaming and watching so they could hear from other people. So a lot of people are thinking, what else are you doing?

How are you coping? Everyone got to tell their story. Um. And then at the end somebody said to me, you know, what did you what did you learn in the past year? And I gave my piece on what I learned in the past year. So I think if you can monitor it and make it seem like it's almost because if you're a panel but there's thirty forty people there, and give everyone a chance to talk and introduce everyone as everyone. Because I was on first, as everyone joined, I would

introduce everybody. They would come on, I'd say, hey, everybody, this is so and so, and it was like I was the conductor of it. So I think, if you're gonna have a Zoom birthday party, someone's got to take the reins and do it that way. Otherwise you're right, it can go crazy. Um. But you also have, you know, the the chat bar on the side. If people want

to talk amongst themselves, you can tell them. My only problem is people are not that Zoom savvy and you and you send him a message and they don't they're not savvy enough to read it. Yeah, but if you tell them what it is, you know, like I did a b y o C. Bring your own cake, and a whole bunch of people all had a piece of cake. So when I ate the cake that I had everyone

ate cake with me. So we knows a good idea, right, I said, b y O C. Now the amount of people that came back with what they saw C stood for and it wasn't cake that I had to explain to them what the sea was for. But people, a bunch of people had cake and even had a candle in it and they blew out the candle when I blew out the candle. So you can make it a theme. You can say dressed like Bob, you know where your best ski outfit, you can wear ski goggles, can do

whatever you want. But if you want to have fun with it, have fun with it. But you gotta you gotta control the flow. If you don't control the flow, It's like I did the podcast the other day with UM with Steiny, and there was six people on the cast, and because he was hosting it, he controlled the flow, so it was much easier to make it work. So it's up to you if you want to control the flow. Like okay, so Jake, before we come to the end

of the field, we've known any more questions for me? No, I think I think I was saving that question for the end. That was I was actually saving that question knowing that we're almost at an hour here and we're almost wrapped up. Okay, Well, you know it's interesting because you know, they always talk about roadmaps with software, and they always talk about how much runway they have. I will be sick seven. Most people lie about the rage, but you can look it up on Wikipedia by the

same token. There's a lot of fake stuff there, Leo or Cone, Tommy Mottola. They're taking years off. What what difference does it make? But today I got the news Brian Denna he died, and and last week it was um Alan Garfield. It was in a million movies and so anyway, Brian Denna he died. You know, he was a great actor and he see he's eighty one, so well ship my father died at seventy. But it's like,

ok so we're already in bonus dimond. It's like it's like like people say they want to die in their sleep. But I don't want to die in my sleep. I don't want to see it coming. Okay, I want to know it's the end. But if somebody and if you're killed. I'm not gonna get killed in a car accident without driving at this time. But you know, if there's an accident, so be it. But to think there's a limited time left.

I feel good about the path I've taken, but it's scary. Yeah, I guess you can look at it that way, or you can just look at it is. You know, live in the moment, enjoy the time you've got. You live, you know overall, if you if you had perspective, and I know you have perspective, Um, you look around and see the life you live. You ski, you have good friends that that that communicate with you, regularly check in on you. You have, you have a great girlfriend. You

live a comfortable life. Could be worse. I look around, especially today and see uh and and and literally think think how lucky I am. You know that I'm actually being able to Let's reach to the classic. What is on the bucket list, Jake, I don't have a bucket list, Bob, I have a bucket list okay, and and the fucket list is if I feel like I want to go do something, I just go do it. And I say, and I don't look at my bank account and I don't look at my credit card and I'm fortunate enough

that I can do it. Can I do stupid? It's really extravagant things? Bye bye bye extravagant people standards? Probably not. Can I do things like I really like that piece of art and it costs, you know, money, I'm gonna buy it. Yeah, I'll go buy it because I want to own it and I love art. You know. So I know you're a big tennis player if you've been to all four majors. I've been to all four majors. I've been to a lot of the smaller tournaments as well. I still want to go back to some of them.

Um so so. So that's why I don't really have a bucket list. I have this idea that if I want to go do something, I'm gonna go do it. You know, it's funny. Someone says, what are you gonna do when all this is over? And I said, I'm gonna go to an island And they said what and be alone? I said, well maybe with somebody else, but you know, literally shut down from social media, lie in the sun, be on an ocean, and and just chill right because even though we're isolated, I wouldn't call it chilling.

Not a lot of chilling going on, especially if you turn on the news. I mean I got the TV on now. They're saying there's a big announcement coming soon, So it's like, who the funk knows what's going on? Like every every day it changes, right, so it certainly does in any of them. I think that's a good note to end on. Jake, thanks so much for doing this to be safe, Bob, and I'm sure I'll talk to you, but publicly, happy birthday. Thank you so much. Until next time. This is Bob Left Things