Harvey Fierstein

a baby quilt. So I said, let me just go ahead and make these quilts and catch up, which was great. I made five quilts in a row. It was great. Everyone loved their quilts. Who doesn't love a nice quilt, because you know, as opposed to give him somebody a painting. You give somebody a painting, they gotta put it on the wall, They got to throw it in the closet when you're not there. You know, they gotta hide it

under the bed or something. But you give him the quilt, you let the dog lay in and if you hate it, you know, you put it in the car and land and use it in the back of the car for when people get cold, they faded and if they love it, they put it on the bed. So everybody loves the quilt. No no, no, no, no, no, no, slow down. How did you get into quilting? And how long does it take to make one quilt? Oh? Usually I can turn out too quilts a year, but with COVID and nothing

else to do, I was just putting out. Um and how did I get into quilting? A show on PBS. There was a show on PBS many years ago about sewing, and um. I always was sort of interested in sewing. My father sewed because he was in the business of how he was in the baggage of business. He was in the schmount To trade. He he managed a factory for the Guinea family, the miss Rockies and the Guineas, and so he knew how to sew. We had a professional sewing machine in our basement. My mother sewed. UM.

I always thought it was kind of cool. Maybe you could make a piece of clothing or something. I don't know. Anyway, I started watching a sewing program and all of a sudden, I'm making quilts, which was a lot of fun. Um, and I've been doing it's close to thirty years. Okay, so in thirty years, what you learn now that you didn't know that? In terms of making quilts, Um, you start out. When you start out, you do those traditional quilts and the traditional pattern he cut triangles and stuff

like that as you go along. Well, also the the whole art quilt movement that has changed. There's a whole art quilt movement now. Um people do incredible work. Um, stuff that's never meant to be on the bed. It's meant to be on wall, and so it's totally freeing this this. I don't die fabric, but many people die fabric. People paint on fabric, people use three dimensional stuff and all that I don't do. I'm I'm like, put it on the bed. People want something to put on the bed.

I put it on the bed. The wildest I ever do is I'll make matching pillowcases. Oh, matching pillow gaze. My nephew just called me and said, can I get matching pillow gases for this? And I said, sorry, no, you gotta get in line. Okay, when you do quiote, how long will you quote it one time? And will you multitask watch TV? Or is it to require complete concentration. No. I used to leave the TV on all the time, and I found I wasn't really listening to it or

watching it or anything. So why bother? So it doesn't really matter. I do turn the TV on, but it really doesn't matter. You get into a whole rhythm. Now. Remember I'm not I'm not quilting by hand. I'm quilting by machine. So you're cutting fabric, You're you're falling in love with different fabrics, you're putting fabrics together. Okay, so lockdown begins. You're quilting. You find you have a lot of time on your hands. How do you end up writing the memoir? An agent said to me when I said,

I'm going to kill myself. I can't take another quilt. I've delivered by five quilts, and and I must say, three years later, I still have two more quilts cut out on my tables downstairs, waiting to be sowed. But I just had had enough um and I said to my agent, you know, is this gonna end? And he said probably not. Why don't you write your memoir? And I said, I don't write prose. I mean I write articles. I write opinion piece and stuff like that, but a

book is like it's a book. I said, I don't write, and he said, well, why don't you try? And I thought, yeah, why don't you? What the funk? No one's gonna know. Uh. And and with the computer and all that, you don't have to get the spelling right. And and if you get editor, he'll fix what you what you can't say right? Try it. So I sat down and I wrote, um, not not what the preface is, but you. But in the very first chapter, I tell a story about being

in third grade or second grade. I think, um, where where we were doing Sleeping Beauty? And I tell and I and I told that story. I wrote that story out phil Amina, who played the wicked witch in in Sleeping Beauty. She and I are still friends. I don't give up friends, eazy. They gotta die on me, that's or or say something nasty, nasty and death. Those are the ways out. So Philomina and I are still friends,

you know. Sixties something years later. And I take that little story and I sent it to Philomena, figuring she'll get a laugh out of it. In return, she sent me the photograph that's in the book of of Me and Drag, which is what the story was about getting into dragons seven years old? And UM, I said, if she kept that photograph for all these years and that story was important enough for her to remember and me to remember, it might mean something to somebody else, I'm

going to keep going. So I kept going. I wrote probably three chapters, four chapters, gave it to my agent. My agent gave it to a literary agent, who said, this is good. I said, what do you know? I could write? You know, well, do you know Tony Awards didn't necessarily have to write? Uh? There was there was, Uh, there was the best musical, the best book of a musical. Once went to UM a show that had no dialogue at all. It was it was an all Dan show. I forget what the name of the show, but uh,

you gotta so. Uh. She sent it out to like nine publishers, and every one of them made a bid to buy it somebody, you know. So I I picked an editor that I thought would be the right editor. I picked the guy who edited the two big Stephen Sondheim volumes of lyrics. I figured, if he's good enough for Steve, he's good enough Harvey and uh. And I also liked other works of his. But that's really how

I saw it. And he was and he's with Coop, and you can't really do better than connob though they they paid the least of all the offers, but you know, it's only money. So that's how I chose him. And he turned out to be a fabulous editor who basically just kept saying, go, go, go, go go. He changed very little in the in the book, made one or two suggestions. I mean literally, he was just this wonderful, wonderful cheerleader for me, um to just keep me going.

And uh, I got this book, which turned out to be a New York Times best seller, hit me with a brick. So you talked about the computer correcting, spelling, etcetera. When you wrote it. How much did the editor change, like construction intense or was it really pretty much the way you wrote it? It's the way I wrote it. It's it was really sort of surprising, I think because I used the theatrical mindset writing it. I used how I would tell a story in a play or a movie,

so um so that gave me the structure. I allowed each chapter to be its own story. I mean, it's not an anthology by any means, but I allowed it each one to stand on their own, hopefully. UM. The only structural thing he wanted to change was there's a story at the end of the book about my mother and I that he wanted me that that took place when I was fourteen. He wanted me to put it at the beginning of the book when I was fourteen, and I said, no, you're you're, you're, You're wrong. It

belongs where it is. It's it's um because it was actually inspired by something that happened between my brother and I in present time, and and I knew that that was the way that I wanted to end the book. I wanted that memory. I wanted that that memory between my brother and I, that memory between my mother and I, to bring me to that moment um, which I thought was a good ending for the book. Now, a book, to write, the whole book is not something you can

do in a day. But when you wrote this memoir, which of course reflects your life, which is linear with ups and downs. When you do your creative work and you do this book, do you start out not knowing where you're going to go? Or do you have the bones of it and you're just filling in having never written this stuff before. Um, I had no idea none. I knew my life, I knew I knew where I was born, and I knew where I was at the present moment, and I knew most of what I remembered

a lot of what went on between. So I guess that means you know the structure in some way. But no, I didn't know what stories there was several. What I would do is I would sit down at the computer every day and write a chapter. I basically wrote a chapter a day. Um, sometimes they went back and edit it, but but I basically wrote one of those chapters every day. And I think, how many chapters are in this stupid thing? Uh? Too many? There are fifty nine chapters, so so you know,

at least two months. But I probably probably took me about four months to write, which still is pretty fast. But when there's nothing else going on in the world, you know, it was the most exciting. I started it during the summer, so I did have friends come over to visit because we could see outside. You know, you couldn't have people in the house because and everybody had you know, we rolled lepers and stuff. It was like a scene at a ben her with her mother and

sister hiding behind the stone the lepers. But um, so I still had friends come over for play dates with the dogs and stuff like that. But other than that, there was shopping for food, and there was cooking, and there was the computer and I guess streaming television. Okay, so you finished the book. You're deep in the groove. Now when you're finished and it's done, it's going to be exposed to the public. Were you anxious about that? Did you said, well, maybe it's not that good, or

he said, no, this is great. Everyone's gonna love it. Um, I've written enough stuff. I'm seventy years old. I've been writing, even though I never wanted to be a writer. I've been writing since I was twenties. So it's fifty years of putting yourself out there. Um, people are gonna think what they're gonna think. There's people who are gonna love what you write, and these people who are gonna hate what you write. And I'm more than used to that,

so I I really try not to judge that. If I want to put something out, if I feel it's true and I'm gonna put it out, I put it out. I don't read reviews anymore. I used to read reviews, and they didn't do me any good. Um, they only heard and um, because you never remember the good ones, you only remember the bad ones. And so uh, I changed names. I did right to several people and say, I've written this memoir, I've written about you. Do you

want me to use your real name? I'm more than willing to change names, and like people I don't talk to, I changed their names. But there were there were a couple of excellent overs that wanted their names used. Um. In fact, one of them doesn't speak to me anymore. I used his real name and he stopped speaking to me. But he told me to please use his real name. So I think there's a difference. I think I would if I didn't it over again. I just change everybody's

name because I signed on to tell my truth. They didn't. I signed on to tell my story they didn't, And of course my story about them is going to be different than they remember it, so it only makes sense to allow them that fictionalized cover. Okay, so a book is a different artwork from a player a movie in terms of promotion. In the sales arc, what was that like doing that for the first time. It was very low pressure because didn't know anything about it. You know,

I published plays. There are books out of my plays, but I don't have to do anything. They sell them in the lobby, or they sell them at theater, book stuffs. You know, it's nothing you have to do. So I was very curious, especially since COVID was going on and I had very little else to do. I was very curious as to what it would be like to sell

the book and and and do all that stuff. There's a lot of stuff to do, a lot of interviews, but most of them were on Zoom, which is why I'm I'm pretty good at zoom and well, I think we all have gotten so good at zoom and Uh. I did do some book signings that were fun. I did some personal appearances that have been fun. Uh. I don't think I read. I read a few. You know, here's what I say about reviews. You don't really have to read them. If they're bad, your friends will call

it tell you. If they're good, you'll see them in the ad. You know. It's like, I go to Amazon and they got all those quotes about the book, so I didn't have to read any of those reviews. Uh, they're They're all there. And as far and like I said, as far as the bad ones, your friends will called. I don't know how he said that you're so stupid, because I don't think you're so stupid. I get it, okay. Also, there's an audio version. Tell me about the creation of that.

And uh, because a lot of people listen to books on tape, as they say, even though it's no longer any tape, that was a That was the challenge that I knew I was going to have to face. I do voices, and I do narration for movies. I've I've done the narration for several films, including the Academy Award winning Times of Harvey Milk and and a few other and I do voices of cartoons and stuff. So I'm

comfortable doing voice over work. The first book that I did was my play Bella Bella about Bella abzug Um. We did a recording of the entire play. It's a one person play, and so I did that recording. So I was that that is the background, but I already had that memorized, so I had the pages in front of me and I could read from the page, but it was already memorized. I'm very dyslexic. As I say

in the book. The idea of sitting down and reading an entire book, especially UH fifty nine chapter book, was really frightening to me. So I said, could we get a studio that was low pressure, which I thought meant, don't go into the city to and go into that evil city of New York because they're they're used to that, They're used to people being very professional and reading. And

I lucked out. And they found this fabulous guy who has a beautiful Victorian painted lady about half hour from me ah and in his guesthouse slash garage, he's built this beautiful studio where he does all kinds of recordings and all kinds of celebrities have recorded their books there and it's just you and him and no pressure because he'll put in as many days as it takes. So I think they told me I should figure on three

to four days to do the book. It took me six, because like I said, I'm so dyslexic, but I just took my time and did it. Um. The only there was it was all manageable. Even the sad stuff was manageable. There was one section that I read aloud and I had to leave the building, and for the life of me, I can't remember what it was, but I will remember what it was. I read that section and I had to leave. Um. I became very emotional, which I had

already lived through writing the book and editing it. So I sort of shocked myself, UM to have that kind of reaction. And like I said, at this moment, I can't even think what it was. And it's not something that that would knock out a reader. A reader would understand what I was saying in that section, but to me, it just it just ripped me apart when I read it out loud. Okay, many cases they have people who were professionals who that's what they do, read books for,

you know, and then the other things. You are a performer, both naturally and in front of the camera and on stage. So when you approach the book, did you view it as a performance? What attitude did you bring into the reading of it. I thought the way to do it is to just be as honest as I could be. Just be like you and me talking here, not for public consumption, not big, but just the two of us talking, I'm telling you this story, and and that's what I

wanted it to sound like. I wanted it to sound like I was sitting in your car, because I think most people listen to these things in the car, and I wanted you to feel I was sitting in your in your passenger seats, saying, oh wait, I gotta tell you this story. And that's what I wanted it to sound like. And so that's that's what I went for.

Um now, and then I did a little bit of a car out to voice, you know, if I was doing an invitation of somebody, which I don't do very much, but but I did because I also feel that I'm not exactly positive that I would get every word right if I quoted somebody, so I didn't. I tried to give you an impression of what someone said, rather than

actually put words in their mouths unless they were already dead. Okay, have you got I know you don't read your reviews, but you've got any specific feedback from friends, family, other maybe unknown people who reach out to you about the audio version as opposed to the reprinted version. No, my friends, my friends all read the book because it was done

way before the audio version, so then I know. But thanks to social media, you get strangers writing to you, and I know, and I get a lot of comments from people that read the book. I have that listened to the book, and even a lot of people who say they read the book while listening to the book, which I found really interesting. That's, I guess, a very fully immersive way to do that. But but never a negative word. Knock wood, knock wood. I have not, They

have not written to me a negative word. I'm sure this this is a world of negativity, so I'm sure that's negative out there, but not to me. Okay, how much do you participate on social media? Both surfing yourself, posting, interacting with people you don't know. I don't serve myself because I'll find myself. And like I said, it's like reading reviews. You don't want to go looking for trouble.

Life is hard enough without looking for trouble. It's like look walking down the street and saying, there's not a mugger on this block. Let me walk on the next block. Maybe I can find a mugger. You like, I'm looking for a mugger. So no, I don't do that, but I am on I joined them all for different reasons.

But I'm on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram. I was on TikTok for a moment or two, but I don't think I ever posted anything, and I was even They even made me join LinkedIn because these are tools to sell the book to, you know, to help, and I had and I have a website which hasn't been updated in six months and nights whatever, But that was also to help. So I did all that stuff they told me has to be done. Um, I mostly Facebook. I

do do with friends I belonged to. I mean, I have friends that we follow each other and we write about our dog. You know. I belong to a Liam Burger page because I have a Liemburger, right, I got follow other friends and stuff like that. On Instagram, I mostly follow friends, but I mostly post stuff about my shows coming up. It's advertising, it's it's sharing dates and stuff like that. Okay, you're a gay icon. Many people look up to you. If someone you does it? How

reachable are you by the Holy eploy? People who are not either household names themselves. You haven't met someone posts a response to something you write. Is the public too dangerous? Or are you open I'm pretty open um. It depends on how it would get to me. I mean mostly when people post something to me on Facebook or on Instagram or one of those things, they're they're usually nice. I will hear her about there's a controversy. Oh, kinky boots, kinky boots. Um, I just had, I just had a

I dinner thing for page six. Well, Ginky Boots has been brought back off Broadway, which I absolutely love because the theater is smaller, so the audience is closer. I come from off Broadway, you know, I come from that world, so it's a smaller theater. There's no balcony in your way, there's no bounce off of balcony for sound. The sound in that place is gorgeous. Even Cyndi Lauper, who I get so scared to let her in the theater because she hates hours how her song sound. Even she's happy

with the sound in that theater. And like I said, you can see from every seat because there's no balcony, there's no So I'm really happy with the show off Broadway. But I didn't interview um where I said that if they make the movie. They were asking me who I would put in the movie. I said, well, when I wrote the show and years ago, it would have been different people. These are young people, but right now I would put Harry Styles and Bruno Mars pick two names

out of nowhere. Well, that explode, I mean, the headlines across the universe. But what's really funny to me is that some of the argument is Harvey Fierstein casting heterosexual men to play gay roles. They're okay, neither one is gay. Charlie is heterosexual, and the drag queen is a heterosexual

cross stress her. He's very clear. The whole second act opens with a big number called what a Woman Wants about I am what a woman wants ah, And they were like tearing me apart that I'd want a heterosexual in that role. So that stuff cracks me up. And then and then you're on. There were a bunch of comments like that, and then it said, well, in Harvey fire Stein's opinion, he's heterosexual, Well whose opinion to be? I wrote it. In fact, what those idiots don't know,

I'll tell you the truth. What those people don't know is that that character, which comes from the movie, the English movie that I adapted to make the musical. He took that. The writer of the movie took that character from a novel about that made a movie you might remember, starring Simon senor A called Madame Rosa. Yeah, sure, Madame Rosa, the next prostitute. She'd been in in Auschwitz. Now she

took care of other people's children. Well, her next door neighbor is a transvestite, well actually a transsexual waiting to have an operation, an xboxer whose father made him be a boxer so he would toughen him up. The whole character was taken from that novel and putting Kinky boots, and then I did an adaptation of that character from My Kinky Boots. So these people who are telling me I'm wrong don't even know where this came from. But

that's what I like about stupidity. There's no end of stupidity. If you don't stop and ask a question, you're gonna stay stupid the rest of your life. And the biggest, the biggest enemy of art in every way is prejudice. I say in the book. I think it's in the book. Um, if you go into a gallery thinking you know what a Picasso looks like, I guarantee you will never see a Picasso if you if you're gonna go looking for what is familiar to you as a Picasso, you'll never

see what else he painted in that picture. You'll never see what else he did. And that's the truth about any art. If you walk in thinking you know what it should be, you'll never see what it is. And that's my problem with critics. Critics think they have to be the smartest person in the room. They go to

see a show. They come in with the history of the songwriter, of the book, writer of the subject matter, of the distance that they know every Broadway show that was ever done, and they come in with all of this knowledge to tell you where you fit in. But they've walked in with so much prejudice. The only thing they haven't come in with is the ticket they paid for, which makes a difference. Which makes a difference. They also have not come to have a good night out. They've

come to work. It's not the same experience as an audience, not the same experience as an audience that's come to have an experience and love what they're seeing. They don't buy a ticket to not like it. Some critics too. There's a very famous New York critic whose name I will not mention. You know, if you're gonna get a good reviewer a bad review when he comes into the theater. If he brings his beard with him, you're going to get a bad review. If he brings his young nephew

with him, you're going to get a good review. Listen, I tell you know, just you know, I talk about concerts your brother, in my in me or in that business. I don't want to hear a review from someone who's not a fan of the act. The people who pay what was their experience, people who wanted to like, the people who wanted to be there, or the person who's never been there before, and it's having that first experience, right, I know, thanks to radio and recordings and all that,

that doesn't happen all that much. We usually buy a ticket because we know who the person is. I was watching last night, I loved it on the news. Last night was the opening of the metric of the season at the Metropolitan Opera. So they broadcasted in Times Square on the giant screens, and they put out two thousand chairs and two thousand people sat, many of whom had

never seen an opera before. And watched Madeia. Of all operas to watch Madeya killing their kids off um and they just one woman said, I always nod out in the theater. I didn't not out. I sat near the whole thing and loved every minute of it. You know, being exposed to something like that for the first time,

it is so wonderful. Now think of that in terms of the critic who's walking in having heard calluses Madeia and having heard controbusious Madea and you know, in fifty recordings of Madeia and seeing forty eight productions of Madeia and this one's direction of it and that one's, and they're walking in with all of this prejudice of what they think Madea should be. Who would you rather hear from that woman who said I've never seen nothing like

this before in my life. Well, this guy who's going to tell you how she didn't hit that either way she should have hit the e were you on this recording from that? He was hit much better? Okay, I see you on screen in your office, highly designed, uh full of highly designed all wait wait wait wait wait let me no, no one can see it anyway. It's got nothing to do with the question. I'm asking. My point is, you appear to be living a nice lifestyle. How do you feel about living alone at this point,

which begs the question of why you're alone? If you've not met the right person, are you ultimately difficult to have a relationship with? What do you think about all that? Well, I built this house. I've been here. I've been here since four but I tore the house down seventeen years ago. It was falling apart. It was either put a lot of money into fixing the old house that was here or just tear it down. So I tore it down because, as you can see behind me, I collect folk art

and outsider art. I like art create. You know, I have a degree in painting, but I don't well, I do have a collection of of real of a real artist, but I love outsider art. I love people that have to create that it comes out of a place inside them. They have had a painting lesson in their life, a carving lesson. I mean the that lamp you see behind me. See there's a woman there with a light bulb. I have twelve of his lamps. He's a lifetimer in prison.

He makes those lamps in prison. They all look exactly alike. They all have blond hair and blue eyes, and they and he makes the clothing out of sleeves from from T shirts and stuff like that. And yet he carves the name or paints the name in each one. That one there, that blonde hair, blue eye is Tina Turner. Oh, look exactly. His Hillary Clinton looks exactly like Tina Journal. It's exactly like like, Um, I mean, they're all, they're

all what's but it's he's a lifetime in prison. The above what you can't see those two you see those two big frame pieces the wall hall drawings, um, you know, in preparation to do silk screens. The one on this side is of Wilhelmina Ross, who is a drag queen who starred in two of my very first place that I wrote. We were friends before war Hall discovered her

and all that. So my collection is stuff like that. So, yes, I live in a barn that my office is sort of the hay loft, and I designed this place with no walls. Um. I basically designed it for one person. There are guest rooms on the on the other side there's guest rooms my but I can close off my bedroom and just have my world and they can be in the house. I did that because I sort of came to a realization in my life that I'm just

not good at relationships. I love men, and I love playing with men, and I love romance, and I love sex and I love the physicality. I just not good at relationships. I lose myself completely in a relationship. The very first thing I'm willing to do is give myself up. Nobody wants a cipher, but that's what I turned myself into. I just become like whatever for you. It's stupid, it's bad, it doesn't work. Um. And so I stopped doing it.

I stopped doing I had, you know, the book certainly numbers mess of my relationships, and I do mean mess um. And then there's a lot more. I was actually I was. Actually My editor sent to me, so what about the next book? What is that gonna be? And I said, well, I could write a book about all the boyfriends I didn't talk about. I said, I even have a title for it, bottomless. Okay, okay, you have so much self knowledge. Have you been in therapy? No, but let me say this,

any gay person has been through therapy. When you're a child you're you mostly brought into a family. Most children, lucky children are brought into a family. As you learned language and really ships and all that, you look and see where you belong. Oh, this is what a daddy does, This is what a mommy does, This is what a brother does. This is and you find yourself in that. A gay child goes through that process and goes, uh, don't feel that way. I don't feel like that boys

and feeling or young lesbians. If I don't feel like that girl is feeling, I have very difference. So they go back and they do the math all over again, and they do and they study themselves and they go, Okay, I fit here, I fit here, I feel you I don't fit there. So that's called the act of coming out. Coming out. This is coming out in public, but this is coming out to yourself. Every gay child, and I would add transgender and questioning has been through self analysis.

They have to because they've got to figure out what the hell they are in this world and how they fit in. So most gay kids, transgender kids, whatever, have so much more self knowledge than any heterosexual will have with twenty you know, than what do you allen have? After a hundred and forty years of therapy, because we've gone that deep in ourselves. What is it that's making me attracted to that person? What do I want? This so much going on there? So you ask where do

you get yourself knowledge? I think I have the same self knowledge that many of the gay people do. Okay, and uh, but you have so much self knowledge about relationships. How you lose yourself with the other person. If but I would think the desire does not evaporate. So theoretically, if someone or through some process could help you in a relationship not to who's yourself. Is it that you're seventy years old and you say I don't want to change or you don't believe that could happen? No, no, no,

I um this this this. I have a gentleman caller, I have don't feel bad for blacks dubois. I have a gentleman caller. I don't. I don't live without. I'm not I'm not a eunuch. Um so I just don't. I'm just not looking for at this moment, I have never met the person that I could do that with, that I could consciously couple with. I haven't met Mike Gwyneth Paltrow, who know she consciously on couples, right, she doesn't come she got the on couples. But yeah, am

I open to it? Yeah? And because age has nothing to do with it, I'll never forget. There's a lovely um documentary about about gay life, and there as this older couple that met in their late seventies and they sort of looked at each other and said, should we see what this is like at our age? You know, we had all the sex in our twenties and thirties and then the world sort of dropped us. Should we see? And they did and they were together until they died. Um, yeah,

I'm I am. I am a believer. You know, I have friends that that meant. I mean, I don't know how armistic marpen I don't know how old he was when he met Chris, but but they're such a happy, wonderful couple. Um yeah, I believe it can happen. It's just do I need it? And the truth is I mostly would rather hang out with my friends. You know, okay, boys, but boys are different than then boys is so different because you know, we we we like it's it's like exciting,

it's society. It's exciting, we orgasm and then we want pizza. S it's boys. Okay, let's go back to the point invention earlier about the end of the book, and you're connecting with your brother, which really has to do with your mother and how she viewed the fact that you were gay. And it's quite heavy. So if you could relate a little bit of that to my audience and how it ultimately left you have accepted or you still scarred, and tell us I think what your parents say to you.

I think Soundheim was so right when he wrote in in Into the Woods, children will listen. You know what your parents say to you, and how you grow up, and the stuff that said to you, whether you're conscious of it or not, stays with you and imprints on you so heavily that all the therapy in the world can't actually erase it. Ud Ronald Tavel, who created the Theater of the Ridiculous, I um he was agoraphobic, and so I used to have to take him to therapy.

I just have to pick him up in his apartment and take him uptown because you couldn't go uptown on his own. And I would sit outside in the in the lobby but I could hear when they got loud and at what guy Ronald was in the sixties at the time, and I'm sitting there reading a magazine or whatever, and I hear the therapists scream out, You're six day, three fucking years old. Where are you gonna stop blaming

your mother? You know, it's true, it sticks with you, it's important, it's very important, but you gotta also let it go. My mother may have had that bad moment, and maybe that bad moment was a lot longer because obviously was going on in her mind, whatever's going on. But my mother went on to deliver meals for for um God's love. We deliver, you know, to AIDS patients for years. He's a woman in her seventies and eighties, driving around, she said, bay with her friends delivering meals

to gay people. Shut in. My mother. She she spoke at She didn't like speaking at groups because she said, what do I know, I'm no expert. But she spoke to parents all the time. People would write to her and she would and she would speak to them. She supported causes left him right, you know. She had her Jewish causes and she and then she had her gay causes. So was she still my mother who would make me crazy?

I'll tell your story that's not in the book, that will show you it has nothing to do with sexuality, has just to do with with mothers and sons. So Lakajha Fall is about to open a revival of lakaj at the at the Marquis Theater right across the street, the Minskore Theater. I'm about to open in Fiddler on the Roof. So I'm rehearsing eight hours a day, killing myself, learning those dances, the songs and all that. Across the

street they're rehearsing Lakasha Fall. I'm Lakasja Vos opening, let's say, on Saturday night, and I'm gonna open the next Monday in Fiddler. So I rehearse all day. I get a room at the at the Marquis Hotel. There's a hotel above the theater um, so I can change my clothes. My family and friends are all waiting for me up in the thing. So I come across. I'm like dying. I've been dancing all day. I'm dying. I jump in

the shower. I pulled on my casino. Okay, let's go and As we're walking out the hotel door, my friend Patty says to me, you must be exhausted. You work so hard. My mother under her breath goes, I should work so hard. Ha ha, that is classic Jewish mother. Believe me, I understand. I turned around the finger in her face and said, Jacqueline, you can go home right now. You don't have to go downstairs and take a bow as my mother. You don't have to sit through this

show of mine. You can just go home right now. What I say So, that's mothers and sons that had nothing to do with sensuality or anything else. I should work so hard, Okay, pivoting just a little bit. Both you and your brother grew up in the city. Ron's office was in the city, You lived in the city. You both primarily live in the country. Now what's that about. Well, he needed to because he had his two sons, and they made a choice, um two of what schools they

wanted their kids to go to. Because you can you know, I mean, these private schools in the city cost a fortune and both kids, both of his sons went to lovely private schools when they were little, but as they got older, they needed better schools so um. And I think I think they made that choice for that reason, because because my sister in law is a lawyer and she still worked in the city to this day, she's still um commutes into the city. Uh, so they made

that choice. I was looking. I was I was living in the basement of Harvey to Wells Brownstone, and then I and then I, uh, I moved into a a condo. He needed to move his mother into the basement. So I found a condo and I moved into this condo. But I was looking for a place in Manhattan, and the places were so expensive in Manhattan. Brooklyn used to be cheap. Can you believe Brooklyn used to be cheap?

It certainly ain't cheap now my apart. I just looked at my apartment, my old apartment, which I think I sold for two hundred thousand dollars, is worth it like a million and a half. Now. Anyway, I'm looking in the city, and there was there was one building that I really loved. It was a little standalone building in Greenwich Muse you know, one of those little streets in Grenwed Village. But it really it literally was one room

on four stories. There was on the first story was like a living room, the second story was the kitchen in the bathroom, the ne story was was the bedroom, and then the top was like the office. And that that was a million dollars. And friends said, really, why don't you just stay in your apartment in Brooklyn, take that money, nowhere near that money, and go buy a country house. I said, what am I good guy from Brooklyn?

What am I gonna do with the country house? And she said, because you love swimming, you love there, you know, just go and see what that's like, because I did. Used to come up to this town I live in. I live in a small fictional town in Connecticut, and I used to come up to this town because I had friends who lived here and um, they had a pool, you know, and I love swimming. I love being out

in the cut. I mean, a lot of our childhood was spent in the Catskills because that's where my father was from, so I guess it was already in the blood. So I got this weekend place and fell in love and spent less and less time in the city. And also when you have animals, it makes it harder to move back and forth, you know. It's like I have two dogs and two cats. So I filled the car with the two carrying cases for the cats, and I put the dogs in the car, and then I drive

into the city park in a garage. Take out the dogs, take out the cats, take them up to the apartment, put out the water, put out the food, change the litter box, take the dogs down for a walk, bring the dogs backed up. Then you were first free to go out. You went out, come back to the apartment, got the dogs, got the cats backed downstairs, into the car, and drive home. What kind of you know, It was just silly. So that's how I ended up spending more

time here. Okay, there's a pulse in the city, and you certainly drew on that pulse, both for daily activities and inspiration. Do you I'll grow that? Is it an age thing or is the city or is the city just different? The city has definitely changed, and maybe it's and maybe it has changed cost of age or whatever. But the so much of what I loved has changed. Um, you know, there's the gay bars, just people are openly ky now. It's it's a different vibe to all that

Broadway is. When I arrived on Broadway, more than half the theaters were empty. My friend Betty Lee, who had the house up here that that um that I used to come up to, she was the one who came up with the idea instead of having all those empty theaters, to put up a sign that said see a Broadway show just for the fun of it. Half the theaters in New York said see a Broadway show for the fun of it. They were empty. Broadway was different. The

the shows on Broadway were four New Yorkers. Think about it. You know they didn't have of a Phantom of the operand and Lion King and Aladdin and Alan Mankin lives over there. Don't tell him. I said that. Um, they didn't have these tourists kind of shows. It was we had on on my block alone, where I had Towards Song. We had Night Mother plenty, um, Um good Kay two, um Amadeus. We had plays that were four New Yorkers. We had musicals you know that there was a revival

of of Pirates of pens And starring Linda Roundstadt. There was Barnum. We had trying to think we had the history of rock and roll. They were different. It was different. Not that one's better than the Broadway goes through it's things. It's going through a thing right now, It's it is different. Can I go into the city and get enough of a flavor from spending a day in the city. Here. I go in, I go to the art galleries. I go to an auction I go to the auction houses.

I come in, I see a Broadway show. I heeded my favorite restaurants. I see my my friends and all that, and then I come home. I don't care. Well, you know, I told Barbara Corkran. You know who Barbara Cowkran is. The big she wouldn't send to me. I was playing um. I was playing a real estate agent, and she was my coach, and she said, Harvey, how could you live in Connecticut like that? What's wrong with you? Come back to the city. I'll find you an apartment. I said, Barbara,

here's the difference. I live in the city. I have my friendly, my friends and all that. I go up to my apartment. I get there, I unlocked the twelve locks. I go inside. I closed the twelve locks. The city is right outside my door. It's right outside my window, it's right outside my door. I am always aware that I'm locked in my box and the city's right outside. I come home to Connecticut, I get out of my car. I walked straight through the house and throw myself in

the pool, you know, under the stars. Float around in the pool for a while, come out, walk around to I don't lock the door now I do, but back in those days you didn't. Um. I never feel that something is outside my door waiting to come in. I'm in a peaceful place. It's a big difference. How does it affect inspiration creatively that you never know? You know, if you if you don't meet John Doe, you're not going to write about John Doe. So I wouldn't know.

I mean, since I've been living here, I've written I don't know how many things I've written so many. Um, it's probably easier to write up here because this office is very comfortable and uh, you don't have that hocking at you from outside. You don't have that fever coming at you. I can concentrate. I don't know, you know, do you have to live to write here? But I live? Um? Okay. You are a very charismatic personality. You tell a good story.

You take up a lot of space. Were you that way from a very young age or is this something that you developed grew into. When I was a kid, I always had a friend that was more powerful than me. I was always the second banana. I was always the best friend. Like my friend Michael was very charismatic and very handsome, and I could get any guy he wanted and all that, and there was me and I had

several of those relationships, and I liked being second banana. Um. I didn't feel ever that I wanted to be out there. It wasn't until the until I got into the theater and I got that taste of doing stuff. And I guess what. The way I described it in the book was what Tom O'Horgan said to me. Tom o horgan, who directed Hair, and I said, Tom, I've run out of unemployment. I have no work. You're doing a new show at the Public Theater. Please give me a role

in the show. And he said, there's nothing in the show for you. I said, put me in the chorus. I just need a job. And he said, Harvey, if I put you in the chorus, I have no chorus. And that's when I started realizing there was something else going on with me that I didn't wasn't really in control of what happens between you and the audience. The real magic is not something you do, it's it just happens. It happens because of who you are, or your personality

or whatever. That magic is that you can't really put your finger on, you know. Ah, I can't tell you why audiences loved me anymore than I can tell you, you know, some of the mystery. I no, I don't think I'm a great actor. I don't think obviously not a great singer, dancer, any of that stuff. But there's something that people like about seeing me, so it's nice. I don't mind. I don't mind it all forgetting about the critics and the people we referenced earlier who might

say negative things. You're very successful. Do you find any insider resentment of your success? There's that line in the book that I think, I forget who said it. I think it was Jay Well anyway, uh, And it's a he's and it wasn't an original line of his, that show business is the only business where it's not enough that you succeed all of your friends and my fail um. I don't think that we in the theater are the only ones who feel that way. And I do certainly

understand that there are people who feel that way. The older I get, the less I feel that I'm in somehow in competition. I hate that we have award shows and stuff like that. I loathe it. Um. Now, what somebody can sid to me is that's fine. You have six Tony Awards sitting in your bathroom, you know, so you can say you don't like the Tony's. But I don't like what it does to us. It's a tool to sell tickets, That's what it is. Can't we be honest about that, um and not turn it into something else?

These popularity contests. But but I guess you know, I mean, they give out awards in second grade, so I guess that's just built into human I don't know. Okay, Emotionally, not on paper, do you feel that you're this big success? Emotionally do I feel like I'm a success? Not on paper? I mean, you someone could say, Harvey, here's the list of your Tony Awards, here's the list of this, this is your bank account that define success. But that might

be completely different from what you feel on the inside. Yeah, No, I definitely feel because I don't feel. I mean, there's certain certainly things I didn't do. You know, we all have little moments of like being conscious of a project we didn't do that we should have done, or you know that kind of stuff for something I wish I had gotten. Um, but that doesn't have anything to do with success. Yeah. No, I would have to say yes, is that a good There's nothing I'd have to say

that that. I'm really very happy with what I've accomplished. Um. Like I said, to sit down and write something, um, you know, like whether it's this book. You know that, I mean a New York Times best seller, goddamn. I mean, you know, really as long as as long as you can believe it. A lot of people can't accept it even though they've achieved it. Yeah. No, I don't think anything came to me so easily that I can't accept it. I've worked really hard on most things. You know. Sometimes

sometimes something happens that that I just say, oh please. Um. There's this movie that's opening Friday, your Friday, called Bros. I don't know if you've seen the ads for it, Billy Listener else. Yeah. So I'm in the movie for about thirty seconds, literally thirty seconds. I hear from everyone who's seen it from every screening they've had, including from Billy Eichner, that as soon as the audience hears my voice,

they begin to applaud. They get so excited that I'm there. Unfortunately, by the time they stopped a book over because I'm on the screen for thirty seconds. Now, would you say, that's sort of embarrassing, you know, because you didn't really do anything to get that kind of applause, But it's also cute and fun and well you did plenty, Well I guess, I guess in the long run, I did. I took a lot of cocks to get that reputation. So you talk in the book, but I'll tell you

a story. There's a new woman that writes page six, you know, page sixth of course, So it's the opening night of Funny Girl, and we're all nervous enough as it is. This is the Funny Girl that's on now that now starts. Liam Michellen is a huge hit. But you may remember several months ago we opened with Beanie Feldstein, Feldman, Feldspine whatever, and everybody was a little nervous. So it was opening night of that and the woman from page six is there, and they say, Harvey stay away from her.

She's so mean. She she writes very mean things. Just stay away from I said, what the funk do I care? So I go up to I said, what do you want? She said? The way the world is going now, with people changing language and all that, I don't even know what to call you. Are you a homosexual? Are you a faggot? Are you are are you gay? Are you queer? And I said, just call me a cocksucker? That one

ever can't respond to that particular one. At what point is some people now you talking about being gay, knowing that you're different referenced earlier than the conventional person. At what point did you wait a second? I can't let you get away with conventional person. I can't let you get away with saying that gays are conventional people. You're absolutely right boring any heterosexual. I know some gaze. I

know some gaze i'd like to throw back. You know you measure them and you they're not big enough to keeping your thrown back in the ocean. I know some really conventional gaze. You can't get away with that with me, and you are absolutely correct. If I want to give myself an excuse, I was talking while I'm thinking of something else, So let me go directly what I was thinking. Did you know from a very young age you wanted

to we're going to be something? Because in the book you portray someone who's not who's smart but as dyslexic. Some of your parents are not absolutely behind you. A lot of people who are someone ostracized too strong a term, but people who are living in a separate This is where I, you know, used conventional but and I won't use it again, who are separate from the traditional. Um they say I'm different, but I'm gonna make it. Other people say, well, I'm just gonna go on my own course.

Who knows what's happening? What do you know? I had no My mother had dropped out of school in seventh grade because you had to help, uh, support the family. My father has brought up in a orphanage in the Catskills, where at thirteen you were an adult. So at thirteen he was driving a truck for the bakery. He was delivering bread for the local bakery. My father worked his whole life in a factory as a mana here. I

was not raised to be Uh why not? I would, but I was not raised to be in the uppercrost Um. My brother and I were called the lawyer and the doctor because we would choose. You know, I choose always, that's what you what you? I watched my mother. You know, I didn't know what the hell I wanted to be. I knew I wanted to be some kind of an artist. I didn't know. I love the arts. I love Disney. I wanted to be a Disney cartoonist. But I knew I wasn't good enough to be a Disney cartoonist. I

was good enough to copy a Disney cartoon. I could copy the drawing, but could I create. No. But I knew that there must be jobs in the arts for for a technician type person. So that's what I figured I would do. So I went ahead and got my education as an art in the arts. I went to the High School of Art and Design. I went to Pratt got my degree in painting, et cetera. My mother, when I went to high school, went back to high school with me so she could finish high school. She

then went to college with me. My older brother was already ahead of us, and my father sort of put up. It wasn't all that happy with it, but he put up with her going back to school, and she went, and she got as far she got her master's. She went as far as she could have gotten a doctor. But she didn't want to write that long paper because she was already at the top of the food chain as a New York City school teacher. She said, why do you all that work and not get anything for it? Anyway?

So I watched people take care of business which had nothing to do with rising above in the way that you were asking. I my brother, as you probably know because you know him, he got out of school. He was supposed to be the doctor he found himself from pre med before he realized that he had been talked into it. I never wanted to be a doctor. He

went and formed a rock and roll band. They didn't do very well, but they did okay enough so that he realized he could go back to law school because with a law degree there were lots of things he could do. He could understand contracts and all that and become a manager or whatever and then have the career that he had. I, on the other hand, just went forward with whatever opportunities came to me. Somebody said, draw posters. I drew posters. Somebody said, work on a set for

a show. I worked on the set, pull the curtain, do the lights at this little role. What the hell? When Ronald Tavell said to me, why don't you write a play, and I said, I can't because I'm dyslexic. I can't spell. And he said to me, there are people who get paid two dollars an hour to fix your spelling. You go ahead and write. That was the freedom for me. So it wasn't that I had this ambition, this growing ambition that I wanted to now be a writer.

I'm going to write Broadway plays. No, it was just an opportunity to do something else, and and I didn't know what I was doing. And the first couple of plays I wrote, as I say in the book, were imitations of my friends plays um which is another reason why I don't like critics, because they came in and reviewed it as if I was trying to do something else, you know, like, look what he's doing. He's imitating his friends. Such a rip off, That's all I was trying to

I never wrote before, I never typed before. But anyway, so my life was in a funny way accidental. Did I have points where all of a sudden, I pushed, yes, definitely, you have to you know, you can't just swim with the tide all the time. So I did have moments, but for the most part it was with open eyes, saying, what's this next opportunity? Okay, I mean I just how many years ago? Let me just look at the script. Two thousand and twelve, they came to me to write

a movie about May West for Bette Midler. I went through all the steps and all that. I'm sitting here with this open because yesterday, nine years later, ten years later, yes, say, I got a call from somebody who had heard about my script from Me West. They never made it um and said I hear it's good. Can I see it? Somebody would say, hey, Harvey's out there trying to sell the script from Me West. No, it's just one of

them accidents. Life. Life is really interesting. Life is really interesting if you just live it, you just you know. I think the quote in the book is life is only as exciting as the number of times you say yes, right, I was just going to get there. So you say say yes, because you never know what will happen if you say no. Nothing's going to happen. Is it really saying yes to everything? Or now I see you shaking your head. So what does that ultimately mean? Is it

when you're on the fence, you say yes? Because there are certain things when you're dying into when you get the offer and there so what we're talking on the certain that you say no way, But how does this actually operate in your life where you say, well, you know, I could stay where I am, but I'm gonna take a flyer. Um, if you're dying to do something, there's not really a question, then you're gonna do it. That's if you have. You know. I've come up with some

rules over the years. I'm not sure any of them applied. I no longer will do anything for money. Um. Money is the wrong reason to say yes. And I only know that because I've said yes to things for money and they've always turned out disastrously. Um. The ones that are the things that that I was talking about, and the things that people don't pay attention to are not necessarily Somebody calls you up and says you ought to be in fither on the roof, that's a whole different thing.

Somebody calls you up and says you want to go out to dinner. That dinner can change your life more than being in fither on the roof. You don't know. You don't know what will happen at that dinner unless you go to that dinner. It's the little stuff that we say no to, and we say no because it's uncomfortable, not because it's a big life changing thing, A big life changing thing you have to think about. I'm talking about I'm sitting here talking to you and I get

a text message that says, meet me for dinner tonight. No, I'm gonna say no because I've got the script I have to edit, and I have this other stuff and I haven't answered email all day and all that, and I'm gonna say no. But if I said yes and I went out to that restaurant, I don't know that the guy sitting at the next table wouldn't turn out to be the great love of my life by angor meet him sitting there editing a script at home. So it's the little stuff that is really the important stuff

to say, Yester. If you stay at home, if you do the comfortable thing, you will be comfortable, which means not living you. You have to you have to live, and live means making uncomfortable choices. It's not the big stuff. The big stuff you figure out. Okay, I'm interested. You're saying that you were busy right now the friend invited you to go to dinner, forget the person who sitting at home watching television. Whatever. You have things and that

are going that you're focused on. Just to be clear, you are not going to go. And when should you say? I'm I got something going on literally just today, the same thing. I'm really busy And I say, well, you know, maybe at this time I can make a window, but I got so much in the schedule. Should I always be leaning towards yes? Or when can I just say no? When there's other people dependent on you to finish a project,

you owe that. You owe that um a commitment. If it's a project you just want to get finished to get it off your desk, you don't necessarily owe that. You can say to yourself, as I would if somebody calls texting me right now, I would say, you know, it's four o'clock. I'm gonna have to stop for dinner sooner or later. Anyway, I haven't even had breakfast. I didn't even have lunch because I've been running. I came running home to do this with you. But I'm gonna

have to stop for dinner anyway. That it's gonna take me longer to cook it myself than it will to just get in the car and go meet there at the diner. Let me go to the diner. That's what I mean. Okay. Is it harder to go to the dinner, yes, is there It's harder to go to the desk, make a sandwich and sit at my desk. Okay, let's go back. You say you have this May West script from almost a ten years ago. Right, are you the type of person right now there's fifteen thing. Well, there's some things

that are relatively dormant, like that movie script. But are there a lot of dormant things or a lot of things in the middle? How many projects are you juggling or involved in it? Once? Um, I keep joking that I'm retired and I cannot stop with the project. So at the moment, like I said, this the May West thing, this will only take me two days to just I just have to clean it up because it's not even written on the same UM version of the Scriptwriting Program anymore.

I just have to go clean it up everything. It'll take me two days to do that, no problem, and then that's gone. If they come back to me, it's fine, but it's nothing I'm gonna actively pursue. But I've got a play that I've always wanted to write that I've started to write. I've got a television show that I've been pitching and I have meetings for and I've had a few great meetings, and that's fine. I've got Kinky Boots off Broadway, which I still have to do press for.

I've got Funny Girl on Broadway, which is going just fine. Now. Kinky Boots is gonna be on the Today's Show in two weeks and they need a lot. You can't say a certain word on television. I have to go rewrite the line. And then there's another line that's we're seven seconds over, and we can't be seven seconds over, so I have to cut seven seconds out. So there's always

stuff like that that has to be done. I mean, it's you know, it's it's And I am offered a lot of work that I just say no to because there's a lot of stupid ideas out there, a lot of really bad ideas out there. And the other thing that I say no to is when somebody writes to me and says, I've always wanted to tell my story and you're the one to do it. Oh see, look at you nodding your head. I hear that all the time. And what do you say to them? I say two things.

I say, Well, if I was going to write anybody's story, take that time, I would write my own. And I would say, I just don't have the time. Sounds like a great idea, I just don't have the time. Yeah, maybe I'm a little kind to that. You. What I say to them is, if someone's going to tell you a story, it should be you. But they always see your story, right, but they always say no, no, no, you're such a better writing That's that's what I say. Somebody's gonna tell you a story, it should be you.

You have a great idea for a play, go ahead and write it. You have a great idea from you of the gig, because a day I have more than enough ideas of my own. And you know which doesn't mean that a bad a good idea could come. I wouldn't have written Kinky Boots unless I was guilty because I had already turned down two or three other shows offered to me by the same people, and I said, if I turned them down again, And and the produce, the main producer had produced my show Catered Affair, which

she lost everything on it. It bombed. So I owed her, and I owed the director choreographer. So I did Kinky Boots, which turned out to be a wonderful experience. But it took me five or six years to write that show to get that score. Well, first of all, to find the right composer, which turned out to be Cindy Lauper, and then to get the fucking score out of that woman had to keep the producers from firing her a daily basis. They wanted to fire every single day. Um,

you know, so it us how it worked. But okay, do you have that holy Gray grayal personal project that you just need to get done before you leave this mortal coil? Oh? I would have done it alround, do it all that? I mean, like, like I really want to write display. Will the world be fine without Display? Yeah? Will? I'd be fine without Display? Here. I'm not a believer in life after death. I've been dead, you know. When

I had my my heart surgery. I've been dead. There's no life after death, so I don't worry about what I'm going to leave behind, or what somebody's gonna think of me or or whatever. It's such silliness. Other projects I wish there's there's things I wish I had done that I did. I'm doing here. But but but none of them are painful because I do enough of what I want to do, so none of it's painful. They just did the movie of of Little Mermaid. Would I have loved to have played Ursula the evil Witch? I

would have loved it, But Rob wanted Melissa McCarthy. I happen to be a huge fan of Melissa McCarthy, So while I curse her, I will also applaud her because I'm sure she's going to do a fabulous job in the role. Okay, your father died surprisingly at a very young age. How did that affect you on a long term basis? And did it force you to pay closer attention to your health? You ultimately had hard problems? Were you lucky it was quarter? Would you've been paying attention? Well?

My heart, then, as I tell the story in the book, is such a joke because two days before I went to the doctor, before my annual physical, I did a drag show for Broadway Cares that when he fights eighth and I had this huge fur coat and all this stuff. I had these bags that must wait sixty seventy pounds, and I dragged them up three flights of stairs to the dressing room. Did this show, you know, running up

and downstairs and all that. I then go to the doctor and he said, your heart's about to fail the valve um. Don't lift anything over five pounds that don't run up and downstairs. I said, you don't. Und day, Well, don't do that again, but dude down let me okay. Um So some mortality came to me in such a strange way. And then I have this brother who immediately took charge as he's wont to do, and and and because he was pre men in college, he had a doctor friend who was able to hook me up with

the number one cardiologist in New York. And so before I knew it, I was being operated. It wasn't even like a choice. Um. So did I ever stop to think that my father died of a heart attack? Yeah, And I'm not gonna say that life isn't precious. Life is precious. But do I think I'm gonna be cheated out of something if I died this evening. No, I wouldn't want them to find me naked. But no, I wouldn't feel like I was cheated. I've had this incredible life. Um,

if it ends tonight, they're fast. If it ends thirty years from now, well not really. I have I have a pact with a friend of mine that when things get too hard, we take each other up to the roof and look at the view. Hey. Look, people couldn't see the push there on screen, exactly just right off the roof. But um, yeah, but we don't live in Russia. We don't have putin as our dear friend hel pushes off the roof. Uh. But yeah, you know. My philosophy of life, I guess this is a little different than

other people's. And partly because I have my beliefs, and then partly because I've had this in I mean, what the fucking ride I've had already? Do I have more fun stuff to do? Absolutely? Every day I have more fun stuff to do. But I enjoy You're talking about somebody who enjoys being at home alone. With my dog as much as I do go into a Broadway theater. I love them both, but I love them both and I get something out of both. I love seeing my friends in the city. Hell, I love seeing my friends

up here, which is the whole different crowd of people. Um, and then they sort of don't mix my life, don't mix. Or city city at my sewing machine and making a quilt or sitting at this computer writing a play. Okay, to what degree does Harvey Firestein both open doors and get what he wants? Or do you have to because

projects can be so expensive? Do you always have to sell a projects are very sense and you always have to sell even if you want to do it in a tiny theater um, because because it's always It's my friend Martin Sherman who wrote Bent. You probably know his played, So he wrote a play that I did at the public theater Um called Gently Down the Stream. I did it about five years ago, and uh and we we had to work to find a theater to put it on.

We absolutely did and you have so you have the writer of Bent and me and uh Sean Matthias directed and he's very well known English director. We had three very three people that you can trust to put on a good show, and we still had to work really hard to find the right theater. Um, it's just it's just just the way it is. I have projects all, you know, like Bella Bella. I did a reading of it. I must have had around ten twelve theaters come and

everybody had different opinions on what should be done with it. Um, yeah, you're always selling, but that has nothing to do with writing it. I already wrote the show. Then you then you have to sell, and then you go back to being an artist again of producing it. Okay, so when you do go to sell, up, most of the creative work has already done in terms of, you know, the structure of the bones of what you got. No, your script is done, you're you know in the script is malleable.

But theater is a theater is Uh, it's not a single person. Even even if you're doing a one person show like Bella Bella, you have the director, you have the designers, lighting, sounds, set designer, even costume of what you're gonna look like. Um, you have the theater owner and what that space is going to feel like when the audience comes into it. Do I I don't know if I tell the story in the book or not. When we were doing Bella Bella and this guy had to go to the bathroom so bad, but he did

not want to leave that theater. He didn't want to leave that theater. So he went out the side door and he peted on the wall. What he didn't know was we get here and in the theater he peed on the wall of the theater and they were very thin walls, and of the entire audience. And the play takes place in a bathroom, so I was grateful that he didn't come up on stage and pee in the toilet boat on stage. But the guy, I mean, so even the theater can fit into what the whole evening

is like. Um, but yes, theater is definitely it's not it's not a book. Even the book. I mean, Chip Read did a gorgeous job designing this book. You know, the coverage is absolutely beautiful. I mean took us weeks just choosing the photographs because my editor didn't want it to look like a showbiz book. You know, I would have put a couple of hundred photographs in there, but he didn't want it to look like a showbis book he wanted to look like a memoir. So you don't

do anything alone. There's no such thing. I mean, while you and I sit here talking, you have Margaret sitting in the other room, you know, boared out of my mind, saying I gotta fix this ship. When this is over, nobody nobody's alone. That's well put. You've made your name on Broadway, but you've also had great success in films. Give me your take, Hollywood visa the Broadway, and you wish you were in more films which tend to have a permanence that Broadway does not. What's your take? Um,

I couldn't care less about movies. I really couldn't. I've been in a few, not many. I've enjoyed myself. Sometimes most of the time I'm bored because movies, you know, they drag you to the set, you rehearse the scene. Then you go back to your trailer and you're sit in your trailer for several hours while they lighted or whatever, and they put you in the costume whatever. They drag you back to the set, they fix it again. You do it once or twice, so twenty thirty times doesn't

even matter. You're out there for a couple of minutes back to your trailer. It's it's not There are people that know how to do that as an art I am not among them. I find it incredibly boring. Theater. You still rehearse like you do in movies, but you rehearse the whole piece, you form the whole piece, and then you go out and you perform it in front

of an audience and you have the whole control. You are the control, You're the act just telling the audience what to look at well, um, what to feel at all. It's just much more control in that. Um. I love movies. I love going to the movies. I love watching movies, and I could care less about being in them. I loved doing certain movies. But if you knew what those circumstances really were, like, they're a joke. I mean, Mrs s doabtfire, you know which? Everybody recognized me from I

was there two days. There was two days that I got a lifetime relationship out of it is the important thing to me. I couldn't care less about the movie. My relationship with Robin meant everything to me. Um, what's another one independence day there? One day I did the scenes with you know, in my in my offices or whatever. And then they took me outside, put me in a car in an alley, said we're gonna turn on a yellow light. When the yellow light goes on, that means

the building is falling on you. Make a face. I made a face. I went home. Meant nothing to me. You know, very glad that the movie made a couple of hundred million dollars, but it's nothing I'm ever gonna care about. Well do you get at this point? Do you get offers? And if you get offers, do you turn them down? Or is that something that was infrequent to begin with? Um, it's infrequent to begin with. I get offers when they don't know what they want, so

they say, get Harvey, he'll fill it in. We didn't. The writer didn't write anything. Get Harvey, he'll fill it in. Um so bother Um. I did the movie, Bros. Because Billy asked me to do it as a favor. He wanted all gay casts and wanted me people part of that. And that's why I did it. Um, Like I said, that minute for thirty seconds, what's the big deal? But I don't I don't get offered. Great movie roles I mean,

and my feeling might be different if I did. You know, maybe I would like movies, if if I was offering a role that was more than you know, thankless. Okay, you've been in movies. You're physically recognizable, certainly in New York there's Broadway, there's all kinds of things you recognizable, and you also have this voice. Can you go anywhere unrecognized? And to what degree is that? And to what degree is out of burden when you are recogn No? I mean,

that's another reason for living up here, is I can go. Also, it's placed up here. Nobody knows who I am. It's lovely, um not, you know I can't. I well, I can walk around New York City most most neighborhoods, and nobody will know who I am. You know, I can't walk around Broadway. I mean, who was it? And it was I think it was Um. When they were doing me for sixty minutes which never aired. Um, the reporter called me the Mayor of Broadway because we're walking down the day.

We couldn't he could. We couldn't walk and do the interview at the same time because everybody kept coming up to me and and interrupting us, um, But that's just lovely. You know that's lovely. But then I can also escape it as lovely. I you know, I have friends like a Robin Williams or Henry Winkler or you know that. To spend time with somebody like that who can't go anywhere, do anything without causing a crowd it, I don't think

I could live like that. How about the opposite? By being Harvey fire Stein, you get to meet people that you never thought you'd be able to meet. You had a couple of those experiences. Oh, all the time, all the time, and I usually embarrass myself. Did you have you watched Have you watched the what is it called the Offer that the new series about? No, I haven't I know what you're talking about? Right, Well, there's a scene with Mario Puozzo. He takes Mario Puozzo. Bob Evans

takes Mario Puoso into a restaurant. I forget what restaurant it is that Frank Sinatra sitting there, and he tells him to not go over to the but he goes over to the table to meet Frank Sinatra, and Frank Sinatra screams and yells at him and calls them all kinds of horrible names and all that. That's that's me. I. You know, the first time I said, the first time I was seated with Meryl Streep, I think I tortured

that poor woman. Be I had just written a catered affair, and I just if she would only do it, if I could just get out of starting cater affair, and I tortured them. She didn't have a chance. So so then the next celebrity I sit next to is um, what's the name? Uh Tom Tom, not Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, And so I decided, leave him alone, do not tort you, Tom Hanks. You're sitting in his tam one, Tom Hanks. Leave him alone. Don't say anything Tim. And I heard later,

you know, Harvey didn't say a word to me. It was what's wrong with him? It's like I'm sitting there going hello, and Harvey's like ignoring me. So I'm very stupid. Okay, So you're saying, if you're in a public space and you see a celebrity, you will get up and talk to that celebrity. Sometimes they will and sometimes I won't. It doesn't whatever the choice I make, it's the wrong one. But There's that other thing about celebrities though, that I

really love. My favorite thing about celebrities is that they all know each other because we all belong to the same club, you know. So, Um, the other night, Leah Michelle opened in Funny Girl and the place was packed with celebrities, and so there was celebrities saying hello this way, that way and all that, and and um, I'm so embarrassed to tell the story, but it's the truth. Drew Barrymore comes up to me and Oh, Harvey, how have

you been? And I'm thinking to myself, Oh, we belonged to this club together, asshole that am We made a movie together. We we we spent weeks together on a movie. Um, we had a whole relationship with each other. I just haven't seen her in years, but you know that's me. Okay. Another thing that's very interesting in the book You take down Bill Maher. Now, Bill Maher is known for being very self satisfied, and a lot of people have been

wanting to take him down. The experience you mentioned is very clear cut in terms of what was said and what was done. But to what degree did you say I want to put this in the book, And I want to mention him specifically. Um, I think you're right. I don't like the man. Um. I find him just disgusting.

And yet, in a funny way, you almost have to check in with him every now and then to see what he's saying, because he does have a certain voice and people do listen to him, and I want to hear what he's saying, even though I always think he's so fucking wrong. He's so uh. This week he talked about the Santis sending the the immigrants to and he thought it was great. Right, Oh, he's been so well, yeah, they're complaining. Look at that beautiful a beach, look at

that beautiful town. He has no idea what it is to be a human being. He hasn't been a human being in so long. He only does his complain about cancel culture because he can't tell the jokes he wants to tell. He has no feelings for anybody else. He couldn't care less what anybody else feels like. He just wants to tell the jokes. But that's the way it is with an addict. I mean the man. I don't think that man has gone two days in his life

without smoking marijuana. I mean you're a drug addict. Admit you're a drug addict, and then we can talk if you can't go a day without smoking, And that's his big issue is, oh I finally have my Marijuanaoa. You know, there really is more to life than than checking out. You couldn't try enjoying life. And then his attack on fat people don't even strove me. But anyway, I decided to tell that story more in a funny way for Lynn, for Lynn Redgrave, who I do bard, and she was

so hurt by what he did that day. She actually went back and did his show again and never mentioned it. Damn. She was a much bigger person than I am. But I wanted to tell that story for Lynn and and for and for women period, because it's still true to this day. He still doesn't have women on his show. It's still usually three men or two men and a woman, or but it's never three women because he has nothing to say to them. I fucked them, I smoke dope

off them, and life goes on. Well, speaking of THATTS, you talk about your own experience with substance abuse and twelve step to what degree? Well, there are two sides. What degree were you? You know? Hooked and then a whole hard was it to get off? But did it affect the work or really it was separate from the work. Yes, it does. Addiction affect your work. Absolutely. I did not work. I did not really right in that hole, there was

a long slide of alcohol. Alcoholism is not something that starts one day, and well it did end one day for me. I just hit the bottom. But I at the bottom sitting in my garage with the car running. Not really a choice there, you know, It's like, okay, you and I already had alan on behind me, but so I'm sitting in a garage or I wake up the next morning because I was too stupid to figure out how to kill yourself. Um, and I said, okay, the what they predict in ALAN or what they predict

in a A has happened. My disease wanted to get me into a room alone and kill me. It just did. It's time to stop taking charge and let somebody else take charge. Twelve step pros will tell you God takes charge. God to me is a group of drunks. G O D group of drunks. You all tell me what to do and I will do it. And that's what I did, so I never looked back. I had that last drink and have never wanted to drink again. I have never touched a drink again. I have no desire. And it's

twenty it's going on twenty eight years. Um. And I gave up smoking soon after that, and then eventually Kathen also, so does it affect your work? Yes, because working I didn't work on alcohol. You you think you're writing something great. You know you're drunk and you're writing something great. This value had the funniest day I ever wrote. Oh my god, that's hysterical, and you look at it the next day and go, what is this ship? If you can even

read it? Because you've scrawled in a cross the beet of paper when you were drunk, and you know and you don't even know it. Yeah, no, it was. It was not good for work. Um. I did a bunch of acting in those bad years. UM, and that wasn't too bad because you there's a lot of drunk actors that can't away with being drunk or drunk. There's something about being vulnerable. I think that comes out. But I also was a secret drunk. Nobody knew I was drinking.

I didn't drink once I knew that. I drank only once I knew my day was over, even if that was noon and I wasn't going to see anybody else. That's the other great part about living in the country. Couldn't do that in the city. Somebody could always ring your doorbell. But living in the country, I could sometimes be done with all my day by noon and drink until the next day. Um. Yeah, anyway, I don't know what. Yeah, I got it. To what degree does your Jewish upbringing

in Jewish sensibility affect your work? Oh, it's everything, It's everything, it says, you know, it's Uh. Neil Simon said to me in my dress room at tord Song. Notice how how acutely I have just dropped that name. Um for Nil Simon said to me, where did you come from? I said, A couple of blocks from you. Uh, it's

it's it's there. I there's all kinds of reasons, and you know, there are hundreds of books on the subject of of the You know, I guess the bottom line for dramatists anyway, is put two Jews in a room together and you'll have three opinions, you know, or or as I say, put two rabbis together and what I'm gonna be agnostic because they both can't believe the same thing. If you believe this, I have to believe something else. And that is how were trained. I mean, did you

have that? Did you have religious training? Yeah? So then you know that's how we trained. Is the idea. You argue this side, you argue that side, and that's how you learn the Bible. That's you know, the Christian Bible. There lectured, the lectured to fucking death. Memorize this crap, and you and they translated, and they and they and they they they they add are the meetings that have nothing to do with the written word and all that which I always laugh when I watched those those preachers

who turned an innocent phrase into something else choose. I'll never forget. When I was sitting doing cottage with my father, which I didn't my brother did. Most of the days of cottage. I only filled in fam um. But one day, you know how they take one line from the from the Bible and they discuss it after join the morning prayers. It was a measurement of one of the pieces of wood to build the arc. And these old men sitting there drinking schnaps at seven in the morning, suspected our

arguing what was the meaning behind that measurement? What I always say is Judaism is a questioning religion, and Christianity is didactic. Everything's up for grabs. The other thing, you put two Jews in a room, it's not gonna be quiet. So let's let's just go back to Broadway. So you is Broadway always up and down? Or if we really hit a different phase with there being so much money in it, a lot of non Broadway people, rock stars, etcetera getting Broadway and as you say, there are many

fewer traditional plays and there used to be. What do you think about the future of Broadway? I think we just missed a great opportunity to invent it all. The COVID closed down was such a great opportunity to go back and say, Okay, we've gotten a little out of control with ticket prices. Now we've gotten a little crazy with the unions. Everybody's living very comfortably, that's very nice, but charging four hundred I was the ticket for a ninety minute show is a little nuts. Can we like

unravel some of this? And we didn't. They didn't even clean the theaters. The Thetis was shut down. Maybe they changed the air of filters, you know they but they didn't. You. I would have thought they would have gone in and painted the dress rooms, but the actors all went back and this stuff was still sitting there, exactly where they left it two years ago. So I think we missed a great opportunity there. But you can't ignore it forever. It's gonna come, you know, you you, it's gonna bite

you on the as. Eventually the truth has to come out and change will happen, whether you want change to happen or not. So I still think it's coming, just like whoever thought Phantom of the Opera would close? But it's closed or it's closing, whether you like it or not, nothing stays the same. It moves on, it moves on. So there will be a new day on Broadway. It will be what we say in twelve Steps, we say, I never let let go of anything without leaving claw

marks Broadway. Believe claw marks out all those buildings. But it will change just because it has to, because it's not it's not it's not a concert. You know, Um, what's the name Elton John? They just figured out he's gonna personally personally take over thirty million dollars from this next tour. He's doing Springsteen, who I adore, charging the prices he charged for his Broadway show, you know, absurd. He doesn't need that kind of money to come out

of his house. He doesn't need that. Why can't you do a show for because you love it? Why? I mean, why, why does everything have to be about money? And why is a thousand dollars a ticket? Because I bought two tickets for my brother to see the show for a birthday president of thousand, and I was getting you know, I wasn't getting kicked up to the high prices I was getting from the theater owner, who's one of my

best friends. I was getting a decent price. And it was nine something per ticket plus the extra charges they put on it. It's not right. Well, let me just ask you. Just staying on that point, we're not going into Springsteen Renny specific shows, not that I'm unwilling to do that. What many people say Hamilton's being the bestis ample. If we don't charge that price, the money goes to

the scalpers, right, That's what That's what Springsteen just said. Um, he said Why should the money go to the scalpers. Why shouldn't I get that money? Uh? I do think they can control that better. I think producers and theater owners would rather have the money in the bank from the scalpers and then turn their backs. But could they turn to a scalper I don't know that that would be legal or not and say you could only add this much to the ticket price. I don't know if

that's legal or not. Well, there are ways to do it, restrict with paperless I don't want to Why don't they work on that while while we were closed down for two years? Why not put I could have a whole discussion about this. The irony is people don't want it because people want to scalp the tickets them selves. They want to sell it. This has been a big thing in the music business forever. I'm not apologizing for the acts, I'm not apologizing for promoters. But you would think the

public would be on the same page. Well, no, because then I won't be able to go to the last minute and pay or no, if I buy tickets, I'm gonna get rid of my tickets. But let's not go down that avenue today, because ultimately We're on the same page. It should not cost that amount of I had a friend. I had a friend sit outside the Harry Styles um Theater the other day because she had a connection that was supposed to be able to come through with the ticket if a ticket, And she stayed there until the

curtain went up, and the ticket never came through. And she because she couldn't afford the thousand dollars to see Harry Styles, who she really wanted to see. And it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. Why shouldn't they? I mean, I went, you know, when I was a kid, I went to Carnegie Hall to see Buffy Sick Marie. Okay, not Eric Styles, but I went to see down of It. I saw Bob Dilly, and I saw I saw oh my heroes live on the money I can afford, you know,

twenty dollar tickets Broadway. I mean, of course, I'm being silly now, But when I was a little kid, my family and I four of us, my father, my mother, my brother, and I two dollars and fifty cents a ticket. We sat in the first row of the balcony, perfect seats. You could see everything. For ten bucks. Fifteen cents was the Subway. Well I think it was sixty cents. But the problem is bigger than Broadway. It's about incomm inequality. I mean, no one had billions back then. Well there's

also but there's also that. You know, we added the half prize booth, which is a wonderful thing. But I was a child seeing Broadway. Whether I went into theater or not, my life was changed by seeing Just if I saw nothing but Fiddler on the Roof, my life was changed by seeing a stage full of Jews. Can you imagine the kid who's went to see whose kids, whose life is not so good, who went to see Hamilton's and had his life changed? Do you know how

many lives Hamilton's can change? And I know they've got it on Disney Plus, it's not the same. It's not the same. It's not it's not having seen in a number of times with the original casts and subsequent casts. It's different. But what's this bit about you're retired. Oh well, I like to joke that I'm retired. I mean, it would take a lot to get me to do eight shows a week. I'd have to really love the play because it is hard to do eight shows a week. Um,

you know working. I mean, who else works six days a week the way you know us theater people do and eight shows a week is hard, you know, But but there are things. I mean, I'm opening next week in Guys and Dolls at the Kennedy Center, and how about your commitment. I'm gonna be home every day because we prerecorded my role. They offered me the role of Big Julie, which is a fun role, but I said so he said, if you remember Guys and Dolls, they

need a place to have the crap game. And so nicely nicely calls this guy who runs a underground garage and says, can we have the garage? Says here, you can have the garage. You gotta pay me up front. And it's a three page long scene of saying you gotta bay me up front. You gotta bay me up front. And so I record. I prerecorded it, and uh so I will be at the Kennedy Center. I think they don't even I don't even think I'm in the pro rap. I think you'll just hear my voice and people will

realize it's me. Okay, Harvey, I can literally talk to you for days. You're so easy to talk to. But I think we've come to the end of the feeling we've known for today. Good. So I want to thank you Harvey for doing this. Uh you tell a great story. They're also in the book. You can get the audio version. So thanks again for taking the time. Thank you for having me. I realized it was also two hours out of your life. Okay, but it's also two hours for

many people who don't have the access I have. Okay, till next time. This is Bob left sets